Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio
Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello everybody, and welcome
Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib, where we talk about the joys
Speaker 1: and the pains of motherhood and everything in between. We
Speaker 1: talked about postpart on this show, and we had an
Speaker 1: episode with Casey Wilson and this amazing therapist named Lucy
Speaker 1: rim Alour. And I just don't ever think this topic
Speaker 1: is enough. I honestly feel like I should be doing
Speaker 1: also a side gig, a side hustle of like twenty
Speaker 1: six episodes just on postpartum depression and postpartum feelings and
Speaker 1: how to emotionally prepare for it. So we are lucky
Speaker 1: enough to be sitting here with the most incredible person
Speaker 1: named Dr Elissa Berlin. She is a prenatal and postpartum
Speaker 1: clinical psychologist whoo whoop, as well as a faculty member
Speaker 1: on the Maternal Mental Health Now Training Institute. She created
Speaker 1: the after Birth Plan Workshop, which is a program that
Speaker 1: prepared as couples for what to expect after the baby
Speaker 1: is born. Why didn't I do that? I don't know. Uh.
Speaker 1: Since her and her husband, who I know and will
Speaker 1: get into that her husband is a pre natal chiropractor.
Speaker 1: They have four amazing children, yes I said four. So
Speaker 1: you are personally an expert on all of this and
Speaker 1: professionally an expert on all this we can say that.
Speaker 1: Um so today we're gonna be talking about how to
Speaker 1: emotionally prepare for postpartum and also how to baby proof
Speaker 1: your relationship. Thank you so much for being on Katie's crib.
Speaker 1: Let's talk quickly about how we know each other. First
Speaker 1: of all, Hi, Hi, how's it going, Katie. I'm so
Speaker 1: happy to see you. You're amazing. We are friends. We
Speaker 1: text and it is one of those amazing relationships where
Speaker 1: I would just wish I saw you more because I
Speaker 1: think you're such a ray and gem of human being.
Speaker 1: But I know Dr Lista Berlin because her husband. I
Speaker 1: was working on scandal Um when I was pregning with
Speaker 1: my son, so I was standing eighteen hours a day
Speaker 1: and a round. Month five six is when my low
Speaker 1: back started to really get fucked up and everyone was like,
Speaker 1: there's only one guy to see and that's Dr Berlin.
Speaker 1: And so he is a chiropractor that works on women
Speaker 1: who are pregnant, which most chiropractors I would say, don't
Speaker 1: do that. They don't, right, So it's really special that
Speaker 1: he really special. He's also a du la. He knows
Speaker 1: a lot. I'm in there getting myself adjusted. He saved
Speaker 1: my back. I didn't have back pain for one day
Speaker 1: after seeing him weakly religiously for the rest of my pregnancy.
Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, but have you met my wife?
Speaker 1: And then I met you and I was like, who
Speaker 1: gives a ship about Dr Berlin? I mean your husband,
Speaker 1: Dr Brlin. I was like, where it's at is Dr
Speaker 1: Alyssa Berlin, Um, So tell us what you do for
Speaker 1: a living for sure? So I am, like you said,
Speaker 1: I'm a paran neatal psychologist. I work with individuals, couples,
Speaker 1: families to help them ideally prepare for the transition to
Speaker 1: postpartum and then working on the postpartum signed with whatever
Speaker 1: kind of hits the fan and whatever struggles come up
Speaker 1: along the way. My passion is definitely in prevention. So
Speaker 1: if I can get my hands on every expecting new
Speaker 1: couple before they have baby and help prepare them for
Speaker 1: what's coming next, that's my dream because to nott a
Speaker 1: thing because it's not a thing. It's not a thing.
Speaker 1: It's the hardest thing because I do these workshops all
Speaker 1: the time, and getting people to invest in prevention is
Speaker 1: so hard. And let's be honest, we still live in
Speaker 1: an area where mental health is somewhat stigmatized. So my
Speaker 1: solution is to get every O bian midwife to make
Speaker 1: twenty eight weeks and pregnancy your postpartum check in week.
Speaker 1: Like in your dream world, it would be like a
Speaker 1: twenty eight weeks you get to have some sort of
Speaker 1: mental check in or preparation workshop or something like that. Exactly,
Speaker 1: at twenty eight weeks, your doctor says, hey, go take
Speaker 1: the afterbirth plan and come back and report back to
Speaker 1: me so we can talk about it. Yeah, you think
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that difficult and it's so necessary. Then
Speaker 1: there's no stigmas. No, why is she signaling me out?
Speaker 1: Like what is it about me that she thinks it's
Speaker 1: going to be a problem. It's like, oh, you check
Speaker 1: the position of the baby, you check blood sugar, check
Speaker 1: into postpartum, great, and then come back and report back
Speaker 1: to me. I love this, that's my passion. I love it.
Speaker 1: And this is a workshop that you have a creative
Speaker 1: you created, created it. It is all I do it
Speaker 1: worldwide via webcam. It's online, it's self pace to do
Speaker 1: at your own house. Um, I can't believe your birth
Speaker 1: for children, and you were just telling me it wasn't
Speaker 1: even an easy road for you to get pregnant. It's
Speaker 1: not like whoops a daisy the first one happened, and
Speaker 1: whoops a daisy the next you know. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: you were this fertile myrtle like popping them out every second.
Speaker 1: It was a road for you, it really was. It
Speaker 1: took us seven years and we went down that entire
Speaker 1: infertility path. Um we tried I U I I VF
Speaker 1: I mean road that path so closely didn't happen, And
Speaker 1: funny enough, at the right time when it did work,
Speaker 1: it just worked. And in between the four like they
Speaker 1: really just came wow, and did you have any postpartum
Speaker 1: depression postpartum blues? You know? So it was very interesting
Speaker 1: because we live in California, We have no family out here,
Speaker 1: all of our families back on the East Coast, and
Speaker 1: so we really were on our own. So thankfully I
Speaker 1: didn't have any postpartum depression. Definitely some blues going on,
Speaker 1: but it was after my second one was born. That
Speaker 1: I just was like, there's got to be more out there.
Speaker 1: And that's really what set me on this quest to
Speaker 1: figure out what's in the research, what's in the data,
Speaker 1: what's practically available, because there's got to be something like
Speaker 1: there's no way that we just have a baby and
Speaker 1: we just say, Okay, now you're on your own figure
Speaker 1: it out. But that is what it is. But we're
Speaker 1: not going to let that be what it is anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you and me've together hand in hand. I was not prepared.
Speaker 1: I had done everything on the list. I had bought
Speaker 1: all the stuff. I had a lactation specialist book to
Speaker 1: come to the house. I had really done my workshops
Speaker 1: on a vaginal birth versus necessarian birth, like I had
Speaker 1: done all of the sort of scientific boxes you check
Speaker 1: off the list, and then had a beautiful pregnancy. I
Speaker 1: had a beautiful labor, and as soon as I got home,
Speaker 1: I lost my fucking ship. And the only thing I
Speaker 1: had done which was preventative was I had had a
Speaker 1: conversation with my husband that sounded something like, if we
Speaker 1: get to two weeks postpartum and you look at me
Speaker 1: and you don't recognize what you see or what you're hearing,
Speaker 1: please tap me on the shoulder and tell me to
Speaker 1: call my therapist because I don't know if I'm going
Speaker 1: to have the wherewithal to recognize it within myself, and
Speaker 1: you're my partner in this, and if you're feeling like
Speaker 1: I'm in a funk and I can't get out, And
Speaker 1: he tapped me on the shoulder and he was like,
Speaker 1: I'm taking notes from the night nurse because I think
Speaker 1: you're going to get on a plane and live in
Speaker 1: Europe with a false identity and I'm going to be
Speaker 1: raising our child by herself because you are, uh, not
Speaker 1: liking this. I remember breaking down, crying, saying I'm not
Speaker 1: temming any fun a lot, and um, my therapist was
Speaker 1: wonderful and we checked in and I couldn't get out
Speaker 1: of the house because I was sitting on donuts and
Speaker 1: bleeding and I was a disgusting mess. And I did
Speaker 1: phoners with her, and after a couple of sessions, at
Speaker 1: the very least, I was making fun of the whole situation,
Speaker 1: so I knew that there was comedy there and there
Speaker 1: was humor, which to me is always a way out.
Speaker 1: And it lifted and shifted around week four and six,
Speaker 1: but we've had guests on this show and close friends
Speaker 1: of mine who it did not lift, and I mean
Speaker 1: not getting into bed for six months, I mean life
Speaker 1: changing and also worse with the second. And it's interesting,
Speaker 1: and first, let's even acknowledge how insightful and intuitive you
Speaker 1: are that you even had the wherewithal to say that
Speaker 1: to Adam beforehand. Both probably don't even do that, and
Speaker 1: they really don't, because, you know, first of all, it's
Speaker 1: this thing that we put blinders on and we're just
Speaker 1: so afraid of and we just kind of want to
Speaker 1: ignore that. We just keep moving. And again that notion
Speaker 1: of there's nothing to do to prepare for postpartum. So
Speaker 1: I'm off the huck, you know, really it does. You're
Speaker 1: supposed to be happy, like you're like, this is supposed
Speaker 1: to be the greatest time in your life. You just
Speaker 1: had a baby. My best friend had a baby right
Speaker 1: before I did, and she was on her knees having
Speaker 1: a completely different experience than me. She was like, I
Speaker 1: wake up in the middle of the night crying because
Speaker 1: I'm so happy. I never felt like this, And she
Speaker 1: was like, I am so in love with my husband
Speaker 1: and I'm so in love with my baby, and I'm
Speaker 1: just scared that something bad is going to happen. Now,
Speaker 1: she was having more of an anxiety reaction where I
Speaker 1: was just crying and peeing on the floor, like I
Speaker 1: just was a disaster area. But she was having a
Speaker 1: polar different experience. And that's when I was like, holy
Speaker 1: sh it, we are not prepared for this for sure.
Speaker 1: Well and even as you say that, like the term
Speaker 1: in the field now is perry natal mood and anxiety disorders.
Speaker 1: When we talk about postpartum illnesses, that's what we're talking
Speaker 1: about now. We're not talking about just depression. We're talking
Speaker 1: about anxiety, tell me, obsessive compulsive disorder, bipolar, post traumatic
Speaker 1: stress disorder, mania, and in rare but severe cases, psychosis.
Speaker 1: So it really really runs the gamut. And the other
Speaker 1: our side of it is is that we know that
Speaker 1: can start doing pregnancy, you know, and for some women,
Speaker 1: like you said, it's going to be anxious. For some
Speaker 1: it's even going to be rageful. This just uncontrolled, bridal rage.
Speaker 1: They don't even know where it's coming from. And talk
Speaker 1: about a sham talking about this. We're talking about that
Speaker 1: it's happening. That's horrible. Oh, it makes me so upset
Speaker 1: and if I can express I felt just from going
Speaker 1: through my experience now when people have babies and I
Speaker 1: send them texts, people I know, I'm always very careful
Speaker 1: in that I don't text things which really triggered me postpartum,
Speaker 1: which was aren't you so blessed out? I used to
Speaker 1: get texts like that, and I would feel so upset
Speaker 1: that I wasn't feeling those things because exactly now, when
Speaker 1: I send text to people who have babies, I say
Speaker 1: things like, you're incredible, You're doing great, I'm here for
Speaker 1: you if you need anything. What else can you say?
Speaker 1: But that's perfect because it's a reassurance that we all need.
Speaker 1: And I want you to know a third of this
Speaker 1: workshop that I do is all of Perry neatle mood
Speaker 1: and anxiety disorders. Let's give you the education beforehand. Let's
Speaker 1: do what you did, which is really bring partners into
Speaker 1: the mix and say, hey, you're likely going to be
Speaker 1: the first one to notice that your partner is struggling.
Speaker 1: And if that happens, here's what you can say. Here's
Speaker 1: what we don't want you to say. It's no one's
Speaker 1: fault these things happen. It's also super treatable. So let's
Speaker 1: really get on top of that. Do you think people
Speaker 1: don't want to do preventative work because they're scared? Do
Speaker 1: you think there are women and partners who are like,
Speaker 1: let's not even acknowledge that it's a possibility, because if
Speaker 1: we do, then it's going to get in our head
Speaker 1: and it's going to happen for sure. It's like the
Speaker 1: same thing of I don't want to say it out
Speaker 1: loud because once I put words to it, then it's real.
Speaker 1: And what do you say to that? So what I
Speaker 1: say is is like exactly what you say. First of all,
Speaker 1: it's not catchy, and it's really quite the opposite, right
Speaker 1: that information and education is powerful. You're so right, because
Speaker 1: you are because my biggest fear in my whole life
Speaker 1: was labor. And what did I do. I looked at
Speaker 1: it square in the fucking face, and I spent ten
Speaker 1: months studying as much as I could. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: the nurses were so blown away at seaters by how
Speaker 1: many questions and answers I had to my experience, and
Speaker 1: it was fucking awesome, But it was because I was
Speaker 1: fucking prepared and I was like, I knew exactly what
Speaker 1: was happening, what I was feeling. I felt like it
Speaker 1: was all mine to be had in every way that
Speaker 1: could have been thrown my way. Like, I just felt
Speaker 1: like I was armed with knowledge for sure, for sure,
Speaker 1: And you look the bully in the face and you
Speaker 1: stared him down. Yes, that's how I felt. And that's anxiety.
Speaker 1: Anxiety tricks us into thinking we've never done this before,
Speaker 1: so we can't possibly have any resources or tools to
Speaker 1: bring to the table. It's not true, not because even
Speaker 1: if you've never had a baby before, you've been in
Speaker 1: situations that have been trying and challenging physically or emotionally,
Speaker 1: and whatever work then is going to work here too.
Speaker 1: And so we don't want to come in thinking we've
Speaker 1: got nothing at our disposal. We've got a ton of
Speaker 1: stuff at our disposal. We just need to know when
Speaker 1: to remember to bring it into this context for sure.
Speaker 1: That's and go you, by the way, because I was awesome.
Speaker 1: That's so great to know that this, this preventative work,
Speaker 1: I feel like, is a real a real game changer,
Speaker 1: and a real thing that is not out there. Um,
Speaker 1: you also said it staggering statistic to me, which was
Speaker 1: how many women feel some sort of blues situation after
Speaker 1: a baby. So upward of eighty percent of women experience
Speaker 1: the blues, guys, So it's not even it's normal. Anything
Speaker 1: that eight percent of a population is experiencing, in my book,
Speaker 1: is completely normal. And it's what we now understand is
Speaker 1: it's part of this collaboration that happens after you have
Speaker 1: a baby. Your hormones were at these crazy all time
Speaker 1: highs and they come low, they plumb it really quickly,
Speaker 1: and your body and your brain just needs time to
Speaker 1: again just to readjust to that. Part of the experience
Speaker 1: is going to be feeling out of sorts, crying for
Speaker 1: no reason, not feeling like yourself, not feeling grounded in
Speaker 1: this new experience. And one of the things that we
Speaker 1: hear women, or that I hear women talk about all
Speaker 1: the time, is just feeling overwhelmed. You're recovering not just
Speaker 1: from birth, but from pregnancy, and then someone throws you
Speaker 1: a baby and says, here, now take care of this
Speaker 1: seven Oh my god, you guys, it's a lot. And
Speaker 1: then they're like, guess what at three months you go
Speaker 1: back to work or less or never, which is also
Speaker 1: another question. I mean, there's just a lot of identity
Speaker 1: shifts happening at one time while you're dealing with hormones.
Speaker 1: Whether you decide to breastfeed or not, that's a whole
Speaker 1: hormonal leap when you stop, when you start, you know,
Speaker 1: all of these things. Um, one more statistic to throw
Speaker 1: into the myth LEAs that's two thirds of couples experience
Speaker 1: it's a client in their relationship satisfaction after having a baby. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, all of a sudden, there's another thing, like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're used to being in a relationship. If
Speaker 1: you are in one, that it's just you and that person,
Speaker 1: and that's the priorities and whatever. So let's segue into that.
Speaker 1: How in the hell should I have baby proof my
Speaker 1: I love this? Is this your terminology to baby proof
Speaker 1: the relationship baby or? Is that a thing? Right? It's
Speaker 1: like out there and like the pop culture and the
Speaker 1: pop world, all this love baby proving. Yeah. I went
Speaker 1: with the afterbirth plan figuring Again, everyone's focuses on creating
Speaker 1: a birth plan, but who really thinks of an afterbirth plan? No? Oh,
Speaker 1: so it really is about people making a actual plan. Really,
Speaker 1: like people who are listening who had a birth plann
Speaker 1: er didn't just to clarify like a birth plan would
Speaker 1: be like it would be lovely to not have an epidural,
Speaker 1: or have an epidural, or they literally list cut the cord,
Speaker 1: not cut the cord after this amount of time, or
Speaker 1: have this person in the room, not have this person
Speaker 1: in the room. They kind of write down although now
Speaker 1: the term more is birth goals, so that we don't
Speaker 1: get so connected to the plan, I might have to
Speaker 1: change that plan right now exactly. So maybe it has
Speaker 1: to be the afterbirth goals, you know, maybe we have
Speaker 1: to kind of go with that. They after birth plan.
Speaker 1: I think it's great. Hey, if you like it, I
Speaker 1: think it's great. What would be the examples of, um,
Speaker 1: what people would put in an afterbirth plan? So that's
Speaker 1: a great question, right, So I'm even going to take
Speaker 1: a step back first because when I think about relationships,
Speaker 1: I think about walking up and down. Ask later, because
Speaker 1: I use that escalator analogy to kind of highlight what
Speaker 1: are the things we want to put in that afterbirth plan.
Speaker 1: So let's stick with that, right, Relationships are like walking
Speaker 1: up a down escalator. What does that mean? You put
Speaker 1: in a little bit of effort, you'll make some headway,
Speaker 1: put in a more effort, you'll make more headway. The
Speaker 1: second you stop actively climbing, that escalator is just naturally
Speaker 1: going to bring you down. Yeah, and that's relationships, right.
Speaker 1: Think about it. Put a little bit of effort into
Speaker 1: your relationship, you'll be closer. More effort, you'll be even closer.
Speaker 1: But the second you stop actually mindfully investing in that relationship,
Speaker 1: the stress of life, the responsibility of life, just naturally
Speaker 1: brings you down and farther apart. Having a baby speeds
Speaker 1: up that escalator and it requires us to double our
Speaker 1: efforts to stay connected. So part of that escalator is
Speaker 1: what are the things that pull us apart and pull
Speaker 1: us down? Incidentally, I'm totally with you because ground zero
Speaker 1: for me is forgetting to have fun. Hello, I feel
Speaker 1: like that's got to be most women, right. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: and let me tell you, Like our oldest came home
Speaker 1: or almost came home in a towel, right because we
Speaker 1: didn't do a lot of preps before, Like in our culture,
Speaker 1: you don't really do much before. So after we had
Speaker 1: the baby, Elliott went to you know the toys r
Speaker 1: Us Babies are us and got the stuff on our registry.
Speaker 1: He comes home with this or he came to the
Speaker 1: hospital with this thing, and we're sitting there trying to
Speaker 1: swaddle the baby, and these nurses are like laughing at
Speaker 1: us on the side and they're like, idiots, it's a towel.
Speaker 1: That's why you can't swaddle your baby. Yeah, towel does
Speaker 1: not make a good swaddle, not at all. That's hilarious.
Speaker 1: But again, here was one of those moments where we
Speaker 1: either could have looked at each other with daggers of
Speaker 1: like I can't believe you brought a towel to our
Speaker 1: first baby, you know, or we could have been like
Speaker 1: it's hilarious. And this story not only that, like when
Speaker 1: we quilted out his baby clothing. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: that's howel is Friends and Center. That was our start
Speaker 1: of parents. I love it. So after birth plan, tell
Speaker 1: me what would be on people's list? Is it like
Speaker 1: appointments for therapy? Like that was mine. So that was
Speaker 1: the only plan I had, And that's a great plan.
Speaker 1: And definitely again use those resources that you have and
Speaker 1: if you have a therapist in place, already have them
Speaker 1: on special right. But so I start with first and
Speaker 1: foremost things that you need to do to charge your
Speaker 1: batteries and for me charging your batteries quote unquote is
Speaker 1: charging you know, the birthing partner, the non birthing partner,
Speaker 1: the couple, and the family. So there are four entities
Speaker 1: every week that need nurturing and attention. It's not a
Speaker 1: guilty pleasure. It's a necessity, right. And it's funny because
Speaker 1: I was listening to a different Katie's Crew where they
Speaker 1: talk about the analogy of the airplane mask, getting on
Speaker 1: your air mask on use it all the time. I
Speaker 1: think about it in my head all the time. I'm
Speaker 1: like literally playing with my kid and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: have to pee or whatever it is. But I'm just like, no,
Speaker 1: I have to happen. And now it's become the thing
Speaker 1: where it's like even if I have to go to
Speaker 1: the bathroom, you know, really go to the bathroom. I
Speaker 1: say to him, I have to have private time, like
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Like you're too. I have been sitting here
Speaker 1: for two hours uncomfortably like playing with you because I
Speaker 1: didn't see you it all this morning, and I feel
Speaker 1: bad about that. So I'm going to get in my
Speaker 1: quality two hours arown and I'm not going to leave
Speaker 1: ten minutes to like go to the bathroom when I'm
Speaker 1: probably going to be better at mommy ing if I
Speaker 1: just take the ten minutes and go to the bath
Speaker 1: And that's exactly it. Although Elliott always joked with me,
Speaker 1: He's like, you may have taught our kids the word privacy,
Speaker 1: you haven't taught them the concept. And I'm like, not
Speaker 1: my choice. Hello, if you're home, I'll go by myself.
Speaker 1: So it's self care. So that first thing is self
Speaker 1: re charged. And again I'll use the analogy or I'll
Speaker 1: come at it from the perspective of I would never
Speaker 1: set my four kids down at the table and say, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I see that you're all hungry, but I'm hungry too,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to feed myself first and then you guys, right,
Speaker 1: that's okay. It's like, no, you'd be shot shot. But
Speaker 1: that happening again that notion of maybe it should be
Speaker 1: that way, because if I'm starving, like you said, what
Speaker 1: kind of experiences then are going to be You're going
Speaker 1: to be the hangryest bit like terrible. There's nothing worse
Speaker 1: than mommying when you're starving, and that's it. So it
Speaker 1: has to start with self care because you can't give
Speaker 1: what you don't have period, your batteries are drained, you
Speaker 1: get nothing to get and again grab a snack bar
Speaker 1: and then go into dinner. It's a game changer, you know,
Speaker 1: or a chocolate bar. If sure, sure so starts with
Speaker 1: self care, then I'm a big proponent. Right. The things
Speaker 1: on that escalator that bring you together are daily time
Speaker 1: to talk, date moments, not date nights. I think date
Speaker 1: nights stock after having a baby, because anything that competes
Speaker 1: with sleep doomed to fail. Date moments, daytime dates, sex huge.
Speaker 1: It's got to be there, and we wanted there on
Speaker 1: a weekly basis. And then yes, and then there are
Speaker 1: very practical things in terms of who is your lactation consultant,
Speaker 1: which friends, family professionals are you going to call if
Speaker 1: you need someone to talk to, And don't just put names,
Speaker 1: put phone numbers because especially for struggling with any kind
Speaker 1: of depression or anxiety, the more barriers they're, the less
Speaker 1: likely you're going to follow through. But if you have
Speaker 1: a piece of paper that you're partner handed you and said, hey,
Speaker 1: it says cal Stacey and here's her number, it's a
Speaker 1: whole lot easier to do. Interesting. So you're after plan
Speaker 1: after birth plan, is it given to your partner. Let's say,
Speaker 1: who can sort of hold you accountable to the after
Speaker 1: birth plan? You guys work on it together. You guys
Speaker 1: hold each other account exactly. It's something that couples do together.
Speaker 1: So first of all, it's an actual document, a two
Speaker 1: sided page document. I tell them photocopy, it's stash it
Speaker 1: all over the house because it's your lifeline of resources.
Speaker 1: And then we hold each other accountable. Because men or
Speaker 1: non birthing partners also struggle with postpartum illnesses. They also
Speaker 1: struggle with p mats. Really absolutely, what dare you even
Speaker 1: talking about? Like they can have the saying, oh, of course,
Speaker 1: they can have anxiety, they can have denxiety depressions. So
Speaker 1: for men, oh my god, my husband jokes constantly about
Speaker 1: the weight he put on after I had a baby.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what the hell that's about. Seriously and very unendearing. Elliott
Speaker 1: at our son's circumcision ceremonies was so like out of sorts,
Speaker 1: talked about this kernel of popcorn stuck in his tooth
Speaker 1: and how hard the birth was on him because he
Speaker 1: couldn't get that Colonel out of his and I just
Speaker 1: looked at him with daggers of like, yeah, it sucks
Speaker 1: for you, doesn't it. Oh my god? Now, what are
Speaker 1: the signs if it's really bad? What should we be
Speaker 1: telling people listening to look out for it? Because is
Speaker 1: this like a technical term post part and blues? Is
Speaker 1: that real baby blues we talk about? Is that? Okay,
Speaker 1: that's what I had, because it definitely shifted and I
Speaker 1: could get out of bed and I was getting up
Speaker 1: to breastfeed, and my therapist was asking me key questions
Speaker 1: like that, like are you getting up to feed him?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you want to do anything dangerous
Speaker 1: to yourself or to your baby? And things like that,
Speaker 1: and I did not feel that way. And I was
Speaker 1: making fun of myself endlessly, which was like thank god
Speaker 1: I had was able to laugh, you know. Um, And
Speaker 1: then again I did feel myself come back to myself.
Speaker 1: But to be honest, I did not feel like myself
Speaker 1: until my baby turned probably eighteen months two years. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's because I stopped breastfeeding in
Speaker 1: a year, but like it's only now that I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh right, remember this ship, Like you're like a person, right,
Speaker 1: So what are the signs that people should be looking
Speaker 1: for within themselves or partners or loved ones or parents
Speaker 1: should be looking for when they're like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I really feel like we are not enough and professionals
Speaker 1: need to be seeked. And eighteen months to two years
Speaker 1: is actually a really long time. And what I would
Speaker 1: question or wonder if there weren't like different steps along
Speaker 1: the way, you know, in terms of time frame. Right,
Speaker 1: let's kind of you know, talk about that for a second.
Speaker 1: Usually two to three days after birth, for the first
Speaker 1: two to three weeks is the realm of baby blues.
Speaker 1: I had that right exactly. We're talking upwards of people
Speaker 1: between those two days and three weeks. It's a real sad, weird, sad,
Speaker 1: weird out of sorts. Myself crying out of nowhere, laughing
Speaker 1: for no reason, although not usually as bothers had. Both
Speaker 1: of I had all that. That's it. We feel so
Speaker 1: out of control and out of sorts, and there's so
Speaker 1: many things that are happening. My sister was that go
Speaker 1: to person of like, I don't even know what's coming
Speaker 1: out of me anymore, but that feeling of like just
Speaker 1: all over the place, super out of control, right, And
Speaker 1: The thing to know about the baby blues is that,
Speaker 1: first of all, it usually does go away on its own.
Speaker 1: There are things that we can do to help it
Speaker 1: go away. Anything you're going to do to take care
Speaker 1: of your physical self is going to be really helpful.
Speaker 1: So really good nutritive food, you know, walk around the block.
Speaker 1: Al mighty shower is amazing. Almighty shower is that was
Speaker 1: my gear up every single night. I would like take
Speaker 1: a shower at like six thirty to like prepare to
Speaker 1: get through the evening, and I would just let the
Speaker 1: water hit my back and would sob right. Um. So,
Speaker 1: then after that three week period, So after that three
Speaker 1: week period and first son, you know, the p mats
Speaker 1: can even start to encroach on that time. But really
Speaker 1: at that three week mark, if there's still stuff going on,
Speaker 1: we've segued out of the baby blooth and we've segued
Speaker 1: into something bigger, into those p mats. So Perry natal
Speaker 1: mood and anxiety disorders Perry natals from conception through that
Speaker 1: first year of life, and that's usually that time period
Speaker 1: that we're looking at. And like we said, mood and
Speaker 1: anxiety disorders, it's depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, which I
Speaker 1: probably see the most of. Yeah, what does that look like?
Speaker 1: What are the symptoms of that? You know? So it's
Speaker 1: that combination of the obsession, this intrusive thought that's just
Speaker 1: sticky and won't go away, and then a compulsion or
Speaker 1: a behavior you know, either mental or you know, something
Speaker 1: in actuality that we do to alleviate that anxiety. So
Speaker 1: we all have intrusive thoughts in our lives, right, we
Speaker 1: all have those, you know, weird thoughts of like, gosh,
Speaker 1: what would happen if like the hatch on the plane
Speaker 1: opens up and you're like, Okay, that was weird, and
Speaker 1: then we kind of like go back to reading our
Speaker 1: book and hope that Niagara falls and thinks about what happen,
Speaker 1: like what happens my fault, what happens if their very
Speaker 1: honest or like being in trafic and just wanting to
Speaker 1: zoom your way through and then you come right, So
Speaker 1: totally normal. Someone who struggles with O c D. It's
Speaker 1: like there's chewing gum stuck to the end of that
Speaker 1: thought and they can't seem to shake it. And the
Speaker 1: more it lingers, the more it starts to build up
Speaker 1: this anxiety this feeling of just a live wire going
Speaker 1: through your body. And what they do is is that
Speaker 1: they need to do something to make it go away.
Speaker 1: So the woman who's afraid of germs may wash her
Speaker 1: hands until they're bleeding, you know. The person who's afraid
Speaker 1: of dropping their baby will never carry their baby up
Speaker 1: the stairs. Yeah, and that's a very popular one. It's
Speaker 1: actually one of the more common ones that we see
Speaker 1: with postpartum. Yeah, are there any women that feel like
Speaker 1: the car accident situation, because that was the one where
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, we're all dying, like or I
Speaker 1: was like kept seeing just t bone into my car,
Speaker 1: baby and car seat flying through air. Well, let's think
Speaker 1: about it. You I have a heart or a lung
Speaker 1: or in Oregon on the outside, like, we don't feel
Speaker 1: any more vulnerable than when we have a baby, and
Speaker 1: that feel it's hard fighting right and then again so
Speaker 1: we do something or we need that constant reassurance You're
Speaker 1: sure it's okay, you're sure he's okay, you're sure he
Speaker 1: ate enough? Did you really eat enough? How many ounces
Speaker 1: did you take it? Right? And then it's like okay,
Speaker 1: right until that thought crops up again and we kind
Speaker 1: of go back into that same pattern I've I've had
Speaker 1: so many moms really harp on one or two or
Speaker 1: three things in the beginning, and then it's so funny
Speaker 1: once they get some space and some time from it.
Speaker 1: Like I was one of those. I was obsessed with
Speaker 1: how much he was eating, because when you're breastfeeding, it's
Speaker 1: hard to be able to tell. And he's not eating enough,
Speaker 1: and he's small, and he's not needing enough an he's
Speaker 1: small and and he's not getting weight. So that became
Speaker 1: my obsession. I have some you know, who are obsessed
Speaker 1: with their baby has a lot of reflux, so they
Speaker 1: become obsessive about an elimination diet to figure out what
Speaker 1: it is. But it's like literally eating them away, like
Speaker 1: how to fix this? But my guess is if it
Speaker 1: doesn't move into a true postpartum depressed shin or true
Speaker 1: like we're looking into medication and we're looking into some
Speaker 1: not a true depression or anxiety or obsessive compulsive that's
Speaker 1: kind of lifts on its own within some time. So
Speaker 1: and that's what we know. So really after three weeks,
Speaker 1: anything that's happening on that other side really is going
Speaker 1: to require a professional help good to know, right, So
Speaker 1: like one out of seven about you know, women will
Speaker 1: struggle with a postpartum depression. One out of seven ladies
Speaker 1: listen to that. One out of seven will feel after
Speaker 1: three weeks a real still sadness that is not lifted
Speaker 1: or shifted and it's time together. And how many do
Speaker 1: we know are dealing with anxiety or and so that's
Speaker 1: really interesting and I'm pretty convinced that the statistics are wrong.
Speaker 1: People aren't talking about right three to six percent we
Speaker 1: think for O c D or that's what we have documented.
Speaker 1: There's no And again it's what I'm seeing more than anything.
Speaker 1: What do people do when they see that we've made
Speaker 1: it over the three week mark and we're getting worse
Speaker 1: or we're not get any better. And that's where professional
Speaker 1: help comes in. Um psychotherapy is huge medication when you
Speaker 1: know the right time in the right place is awesome,
Speaker 1: absolutely and a huge part of the picture. And again
Speaker 1: here's one of those things where there's so much stigma.
Speaker 1: But unless you're in your that person shoes, no judgment, none,
Speaker 1: because no one should struggle or suffer when they have
Speaker 1: a baby. And it's so treatable. We want everything you
Speaker 1: need to make yourself a better mom and I feel better. Well,
Speaker 1: anything that's going to make you feel better about yourself
Speaker 1: is going to make you a better mom. And done.
Speaker 1: I mean the things they're both so cyclical. So what
Speaker 1: do people do who are listening that maybe don't live
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles or a big city. How do they
Speaker 1: find do all therapists specialized in postpartum depression? Like, how
Speaker 1: would you even find? Like? Is? You'll send me some
Speaker 1: link for that that we can like, because I'm so
Speaker 1: obsessed with helping women in this postpartum time. Because look,
Speaker 1: you Katie Scribb listeners, you know me. I'm pretty fucking jovial.
Speaker 1: I'm a very glass half full person. I was super
Speaker 1: stoked to become a mom and I could have never
Speaker 1: seen it coming that out of my friends who all
Speaker 1: had babies, all at a very similar time, I was
Speaker 1: the one who was super fucking sad. And I don't
Speaker 1: think my husband really saw that coming either. The one
Speaker 1: thing that I kept coming back to, which I really
Speaker 1: feel like was my experience, was I had this guest
Speaker 1: on Kay's Crib named Talia. She's incredible, and she created
Speaker 1: this beautiful baby food that was Albie's first foods um
Speaker 1: and she's a duel also, and I did a workshop
Speaker 1: with her and she had postpartum depression and had to
Speaker 1: take medication. She's very open about it, but she was
Speaker 1: saying she met her daughter and it wasn't love at
Speaker 1: first sight, and it wasn't for me either. It was
Speaker 1: a slow burn. For some people it's love at first
Speaker 1: sight and they're into it, and some people it is
Speaker 1: just a slow fucking burn. Like I got hit with
Speaker 1: my lightning bolts of love for my son around six weeks,
Speaker 1: Like that's just what happened, and I think for some
Speaker 1: people it could be way later. Well, And think about
Speaker 1: the expectation sometimes, like with every single kid I tour,
Speaker 1: so that always meant stitches involved, and the doctor would
Speaker 1: have been doing his stuff down there, and they'd always
Speaker 1: be like to want to hold the baby? Do you
Speaker 1: want a certain nurse thing too? And I'm like, can
Speaker 1: we finish down there? I really can't think straight until
Speaker 1: that's done. But like that expectation, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: so intense. And really what we're saying is that there's
Speaker 1: there's two times in our lives where oxytocin really runs large.
Speaker 1: When we're falling in love and around attachment with babies,
Speaker 1: and you're just saying, hey, I knew me or you didn't,
Speaker 1: but now we know you that you are the slow
Speaker 1: burn or my time kind of girl, slow burner, And
Speaker 1: that's okay, right, we're gonna coin that slow burner. I
Speaker 1: was the slow bitner. What about I have a friend
Speaker 1: who was like, I got postpartum depression. It's six months postpartum.
Speaker 1: Is that true about? Are you joking? Well, think about
Speaker 1: all the changes that happened in that first year and
Speaker 1: when you're going back to work, when your partner's going
Speaker 1: back to work, when you're stopping to breastfeed, it's just
Speaker 1: a year of learning curves, and yeah, throughout that entire
Speaker 1: year you can have a postpartum illness. Absolutely. Do you
Speaker 1: see across the board that it is so much more
Speaker 1: of a shock for people's first than second, or sometimes
Speaker 1: it is for people's second and first. And what about
Speaker 1: you personally? It's by fourth and I think it was
Speaker 1: it was who said I think Hillary Baldwin said like
Speaker 1: by the fourth, it's just another kid at the zero,
Speaker 1: or it's like it's just another animal of the zero,
Speaker 1: which was totally true. By four, Um, I find right.
Speaker 1: I find for after that initial transition with baby number one.
Speaker 1: I find for women it's harder with two, and for
Speaker 1: men it's harder with three. Should you go to three? No? Wow?
Speaker 1: So really, because think about it, most of the time,
Speaker 1: when your partner's home, you're home. So with two kids,
Speaker 1: you're outnumbered, but they are not. They don't get out
Speaker 1: number till three because at three it doesn't matter whose
Speaker 1: home you're inherently outnumbered. Wow. Do you have any patients
Speaker 1: who had postpartum depression? Not the first one, but yes
Speaker 1: on the second one, or yes on the first one.
Speaker 1: If you had it on the first, is it more
Speaker 1: likely with the second? On the first, it's more likely.
Speaker 1: It is an increased risk factor. But it's important for
Speaker 1: people to know that a risk factor doesn't mean it's
Speaker 1: going to happen. But so much depends on what's going
Speaker 1: on in life at that time. Where are you, where
Speaker 1: are your partner? You know, I've seen a lot of
Speaker 1: couples where they'll struggle after baby number one with the relationship,
Speaker 1: never really get it back on track. Think, hey, we'll
Speaker 1: sell you know, we'll segue into baby number two. That'll
Speaker 1: fix it. Yeah, And that's a real show. It really
Speaker 1: is because listen, as lovable and as cozy and yummy
Speaker 1: as they are, babies are stress. And the goal is
Speaker 1: is how can we keep that stress an outside force
Speaker 1: and not a divisive force within us? And that's the difference.
Speaker 1: What do you talk about this this baby proofing a relationship?
Speaker 1: I asked a little bit before, but how do people
Speaker 1: protect honor their relationship when it's about to go through
Speaker 1: that statistic you said of like two thirds of one
Speaker 1: two thirds of couples experience that's decline, which means one
Speaker 1: third of couples didn't experience as decline and they're happy,
Speaker 1: those idiots kidding. I'm so happy for you. I'm so
Speaker 1: happy for you that you're thriving. Well, the two thirds
Speaker 1: of us just sleep. There's no shortcuts for taking time
Speaker 1: to talk, taking time together, and making sure that you
Speaker 1: don't put your relationship on the side and get sucked
Speaker 1: into that baby voor tax. But instead you recognize that
Speaker 1: this has to be my primary focus. I am a
Speaker 1: big believer that to be a good parent, you need
Speaker 1: to be a good partner, right, that the ability to
Speaker 1: parent really comes from your capacity to partner, and so,
Speaker 1: and it's recognizing that when we devote time to our
Speaker 1: primary relationship, we're not doing it at the expense of
Speaker 1: our kids. We're doing it for our kids. That's really
Speaker 1: a strong and astute I talked about this and my
Speaker 1: girlfriends sometimes like who out of us parents do you
Speaker 1: think put the kids first? And who do you think
Speaker 1: put the partner first? I can already see myself slipping
Speaker 1: and do mean the kid is first? Like, I'm fucked,
Speaker 1: But that's what my mom did. I also think it's
Speaker 1: like some sort of thing of what you were raised
Speaker 1: with and what you saw. I have a really good
Speaker 1: friend who's like, no, no, My parents always made it
Speaker 1: very clear that they and their relationship was more important
Speaker 1: than us, and I was like, wow, what is that
Speaker 1: like and what does that do? That's amazing, It is amazing.
Speaker 1: And the crazy thing is and especially as we've said,
Speaker 1: weight into teenagers, right, they're now very vocal. You're going
Speaker 1: out on day night again. And my thirteen year old
Speaker 1: in particular, like any time my husband and I are affectionate, like,
Speaker 1: she'll find a way to like scoot in between us
Speaker 1: like that all the time I kissed my husband and
Speaker 1: he's like, now, mommy's mine. Like it's like the whole thing,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't want us together, doesn't want it right.
Speaker 1: And she's like, if you haven't need to kiss kiss me,
Speaker 1: you could both kiss me, which is sort of cute,
Speaker 1: sort of cute sort of. But it was really interesting
Speaker 1: because like we have you know, company on Saturday all
Speaker 1: the time, yes, and we had a seri ease of
Speaker 1: just divorced people like it just happened to be. And
Speaker 1: I realized like it was a new experience for my kids,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, we should talk about this,
Speaker 1: like they haven't been around a lot of divorce people.
Speaker 1: And so I was talking to my girls and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, so so and so is divorced,
Speaker 1: what does that mean to you? And they were like, well,
Speaker 1: I know it's not gonna happen to you guys. And
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, fine, right, So that notion that's
Speaker 1: somewhere it's gone into you that mom and dad love
Speaker 1: each other and you're a very strong and that were
Speaker 1: solid and you're a solid And that's not to say
Speaker 1: that we didn't struggle along the way twenty three years
Speaker 1: of marriage. Let me tell you there's been many ups
Speaker 1: and downright, some higher some but that notion of stability
Speaker 1: and knowing that they're safe. Adam and I went on
Speaker 1: a date last night for the first time in two years. Guys, okay,
Speaker 1: but first of many, first of many, Like it was
Speaker 1: crazy and um, it was so romantic and lovely. But
Speaker 1: you're right, it's this date moment thing that needs to
Speaker 1: be And here was my after birth plan, Damna, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do it now two years. Here's my
Speaker 1: litmus test. When you come home, if you're kissing baby
Speaker 1: before happy, you know that we need to switch it.
Speaker 1: That's a big switchero. Oh yeah, I do that. I
Speaker 1: do that, admitting it right now. I think if I
Speaker 1: kiss either admitting it's the first up Katie admitting I
Speaker 1: definitely do that, I think, but he does too. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: we need to have a conversation because you're gonna start
Speaker 1: kissing each other and I can't wait for him to
Speaker 1: listen to this episode. Um, tell me about other ways
Speaker 1: that people can baby proof their relationship besides date moments,
Speaker 1: besides trying to have this after birth plan that each
Speaker 1: person in the relationship has sort of written down and
Speaker 1: can hold each other accountable for right. Absolutely daily conversations.
Speaker 1: We want to make sure that no more than twenty
Speaker 1: four hours ever go by with the two without the
Speaker 1: two of you sitting down and being like, I remember you.
Speaker 1: Because it's the little day to day or the minutia
Speaker 1: of our day to day that really bonds us together.
Speaker 1: So we want to start there. When do you do it?
Speaker 1: It's a great question. I'm like you fourge children, and
Speaker 1: you're like a very successful working woman, and he is
Speaker 1: a very successful business Like, what if you guys have time?
Speaker 1: Then I have literally no excuse. You're going on dates?
Speaker 1: What the hell? Yes we are. Do you go to
Speaker 1: bed at the same time? No, yeah, we don't either.
Speaker 1: Do you talk in the morning on the phone? Is
Speaker 1: it be a text? All? All good questions. Sometimes we'll
Speaker 1: do it in the office. Lucky enough we work together.
Speaker 1: And although what I'll say, Plan A is you do
Speaker 1: it face to face for me, A Plan B is
Speaker 1: that it at least happens daily. So we'll do it
Speaker 1: a lot on the phone. He's driving to this home visit,
Speaker 1: I'm driving to this appointment. But we'll find that time
Speaker 1: to connect. Tell me about your day, what was great,
Speaker 1: what was horrible? What was awesome? Like, oh, I love that,
Speaker 1: you know what, that's what keeps you together because otherwise
Speaker 1: it's like, wait, you look kind of familiar, but I
Speaker 1: don't really know you, and I don't really even know
Speaker 1: where to start, right, and that's really hard. So no
Speaker 1: more than twenty four hours without having a conversation, no
Speaker 1: more than seven days without a eight and without sex.
Speaker 1: And those are two like these rules. That's right. Wow,
Speaker 1: And it's so funny because in the years that I've
Speaker 1: done this and worked with couples, and I always encourage
Speaker 1: couples to come back to me with like, I'll recommend
Speaker 1: you plan it, you schedule it, Like what did you
Speaker 1: do to make it work for you? So one couple
Speaker 1: came back with this notion of they call it winning
Speaker 1: their dates, and again totally gave me permission. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm taking that what is right? And so what they
Speaker 1: do is they start their date moment with sex and
Speaker 1: this way, this is great, this is this is me
Speaker 1: and it's the it's the thing of like, don't ever
Speaker 1: save sex or after the dinner date because it's not happening, right,
Speaker 1: it's not happening. It's not happening, but you're gonna still
Speaker 1: go through the mind game of is he thinking it's happening,
Speaker 1: it's still expecting it to happen. And then another couple
Speaker 1: came up with and this was great because they were like,
Speaker 1: putting sex on the calendar felt like too much pressure.
Speaker 1: So for them, it's get naked and cut all night.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so key, right, isn't that? Um? How do
Speaker 1: we break away? This is a big question on all
Speaker 1: my last ones. How do we break away from the
Speaker 1: stigma that we're being a bad mom if we're not
Speaker 1: a hundred percent all the time, so a hundred percent
Speaker 1: of the time doesn't exist, and what we want to
Speaker 1: aspire for is the good enough mom. How do we
Speaker 1: do it? We surround ourselves with other people who are
Speaker 1: real and are willing to share real go to mommy
Speaker 1: and me groups, go to you know, other places where
Speaker 1: you can really just talk and be like, gosh, you're
Speaker 1: going through that. Also, I just had a client that
Speaker 1: I had referred her to this mommy and me group awesome,
Speaker 1: I mean me group here in l a Nancy Beta.
Speaker 1: Everyone who goes feels loved and nurtured and you can't
Speaker 1: go wrong. So I had made this referral and she
Speaker 1: had went and we had talked about it afterwards and
Speaker 1: she was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea
Speaker 1: that so many other people were struggling with intimacy. And
Speaker 1: you're like, bingo, Yeah, it's just the not feeling alone,
Speaker 1: not alone, and hey, you're normal, which is why Katie's
Speaker 1: Crib is where it's at. People. I feel very lucky
Speaker 1: that I live in l A and I have this
Speaker 1: like awesome mom crew, and I just hope, like my
Speaker 1: goal and dream for Katie's Crib is that we provide
Speaker 1: a crew for moms who are by themselves or need
Speaker 1: a really good laugh and to not feel by themselves
Speaker 1: and feel like they have access to help that they
Speaker 1: need to feel supported in whatever choices they're making. For sure, No,
Speaker 1: it's huge. What you do for new moms and for
Speaker 1: new couples is huge because you right back at you.
Speaker 1: Thank you, But there's nothing that you're not willing to
Speaker 1: talk about, which come on, which is huge. But that's it.
Speaker 1: We need more of that, just open, honest, real we're
Speaker 1: all going through. Yes, Um, if you were to give
Speaker 1: a key piece of advice to expecting moms, what in
Speaker 1: the hell would it be? It would be to slow
Speaker 1: down and love yourself. Hmm, that's really hard. What would
Speaker 1: it be. I wanted to be real. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be something that's pragmatic that they can take home, but
Speaker 1: also to slow down and love themselves because well, because
Speaker 1: I feel like that is our biggest struggle in life.
Speaker 1: The pace of life is just not normal and it's
Speaker 1: not sustainable. Okay, put your relationship first. Recognize that everything
Speaker 1: is better when you and your partner are intact. And
Speaker 1: if you don't have a partner, if you're going it alone,
Speaker 1: find your village. We say that the village disappeared, It
Speaker 1: didn't it just more so find your village to point
Speaker 1: out but I would be dead in the water. Find
Speaker 1: your key people. Find your key people, and make sure
Speaker 1: they text you post baby that they love you and
Speaker 1: they're there for you. And Katie told you exactly what
Speaker 1: you should be texting, because those dumb things like isn't
Speaker 1: it amazing? With eight thousand exclamation points, like just don't know,
Speaker 1: because it would not be amazing for somebody, right, you
Speaker 1: know what that it's isn't it amazing? Text? Does it
Speaker 1: shuts down the conversation before it ever started, because you've
Speaker 1: now made it no longer. Okay for that woman to
Speaker 1: be like, no, this sucks and I'm struggling. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: just like sorry. Obviously there's no space for that, right.
Speaker 1: But when you say hey, I love you and I'm
Speaker 1: here for you and there's nothing we can't talk about
Speaker 1: that I could follow up. That's it. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: And you had asked about what people out of l
Speaker 1: A can do, and I just want to make sure
Speaker 1: we start back around that. So, first of all, I
Speaker 1: do coaching worldwide, so anyone who it's anything, reach out
Speaker 1: and I will always help you find what you need.
Speaker 1: But Postpartum Support International is a huge and incredible organization.
Speaker 1: I'm one of their coordinators out here in l A.
Speaker 1: But they are international in so many different states and
Speaker 1: countries and they are a well spring of information and
Speaker 1: resources where you can connect with a coordinator in your
Speaker 1: area and they will help you find your people. Uh see,
Speaker 1: this is so wonderful. I can't tell you. I just
Speaker 1: think the work you're doing is so valuable and important,
Speaker 1: and I just want to encourage our listeners to really
Speaker 1: take care of themselves and to any expecting mothers in
Speaker 1: their lives because help is out there and we're really
Speaker 1: trying to break these stigmas down about mental health and
Speaker 1: pregnancy and postpartum and all of these things. And thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being on Kid's Grip. Okay, this
Speaker 1: is awesome. Thank you for having me. I adore you.
Speaker 1: You guys are always curious about your questions, comments, concerns.
Speaker 1: Email me Katie's Crib at Shannah land dot com. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. Katie's Grim is a production of Shonda land
Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I heart Radio. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from Shonda land Audio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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