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Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio

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Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello everybody, and welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib, where we talk about the joys

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Speaker 1: and the pains of motherhood and everything in between. We

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Speaker 1: talked about postpart on this show, and we had an

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Speaker 1: episode with Casey Wilson and this amazing therapist named Lucy

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Speaker 1: rim Alour. And I just don't ever think this topic

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Speaker 1: is enough. I honestly feel like I should be doing

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Speaker 1: also a side gig, a side hustle of like twenty

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Speaker 1: six episodes just on postpartum depression and postpartum feelings and

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Speaker 1: how to emotionally prepare for it. So we are lucky

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Speaker 1: enough to be sitting here with the most incredible person

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Speaker 1: named Dr Elissa Berlin. She is a prenatal and postpartum

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Speaker 1: clinical psychologist whoo whoop, as well as a faculty member

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Speaker 1: on the Maternal Mental Health Now Training Institute. She created

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Speaker 1: the after Birth Plan Workshop, which is a program that

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Speaker 1: prepared as couples for what to expect after the baby

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Speaker 1: is born. Why didn't I do that? I don't know. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Since her and her husband, who I know and will

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Speaker 1: get into that her husband is a pre natal chiropractor.

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Speaker 1: They have four amazing children, yes I said four. So

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Speaker 1: you are personally an expert on all of this and

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Speaker 1: professionally an expert on all this we can say that.

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Speaker 1: Um so today we're gonna be talking about how to

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Speaker 1: emotionally prepare for postpartum and also how to baby proof

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Speaker 1: your relationship. Thank you so much for being on Katie's crib.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk quickly about how we know each other. First

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Speaker 1: of all, Hi, Hi, how's it going, Katie. I'm so

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Speaker 1: happy to see you. You're amazing. We are friends. We

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Speaker 1: text and it is one of those amazing relationships where

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Speaker 1: I would just wish I saw you more because I

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Speaker 1: think you're such a ray and gem of human being.

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Speaker 1: But I know Dr Lista Berlin because her husband. I

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Speaker 1: was working on scandal Um when I was pregning with

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Speaker 1: my son, so I was standing eighteen hours a day

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Speaker 1: and a round. Month five six is when my low

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Speaker 1: back started to really get fucked up and everyone was like,

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Speaker 1: there's only one guy to see and that's Dr Berlin.

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Speaker 1: And so he is a chiropractor that works on women

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Speaker 1: who are pregnant, which most chiropractors I would say, don't

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Speaker 1: do that. They don't, right, So it's really special that

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Speaker 1: he really special. He's also a du la. He knows

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Speaker 1: a lot. I'm in there getting myself adjusted. He saved

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Speaker 1: my back. I didn't have back pain for one day

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Speaker 1: after seeing him weakly religiously for the rest of my pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, but have you met my wife?

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Speaker 1: And then I met you and I was like, who

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Speaker 1: gives a ship about Dr Berlin? I mean your husband,

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Speaker 1: Dr Brlin. I was like, where it's at is Dr

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Speaker 1: Alyssa Berlin, Um, So tell us what you do for

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Speaker 1: a living for sure? So I am, like you said,

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Speaker 1: I'm a paran neatal psychologist. I work with individuals, couples,

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Speaker 1: families to help them ideally prepare for the transition to

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Speaker 1: postpartum and then working on the postpartum signed with whatever

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Speaker 1: kind of hits the fan and whatever struggles come up

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Speaker 1: along the way. My passion is definitely in prevention. So

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Speaker 1: if I can get my hands on every expecting new

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Speaker 1: couple before they have baby and help prepare them for

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Speaker 1: what's coming next, that's my dream because to nott a

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Speaker 1: thing because it's not a thing. It's not a thing.

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Speaker 1: It's the hardest thing because I do these workshops all

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Speaker 1: the time, and getting people to invest in prevention is

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Speaker 1: so hard. And let's be honest, we still live in

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Speaker 1: an area where mental health is somewhat stigmatized. So my

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Speaker 1: solution is to get every O bian midwife to make

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Speaker 1: twenty eight weeks and pregnancy your postpartum check in week.

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Speaker 1: Like in your dream world, it would be like a

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Speaker 1: twenty eight weeks you get to have some sort of

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Speaker 1: mental check in or preparation workshop or something like that. Exactly,

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Speaker 1: at twenty eight weeks, your doctor says, hey, go take

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Speaker 1: the afterbirth plan and come back and report back to

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Speaker 1: me so we can talk about it. Yeah, you think

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that difficult and it's so necessary. Then

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Speaker 1: there's no stigmas. No, why is she signaling me out?

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Speaker 1: Like what is it about me that she thinks it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a problem. It's like, oh, you check

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Speaker 1: the position of the baby, you check blood sugar, check

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Speaker 1: into postpartum, great, and then come back and report back

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Speaker 1: to me. I love this, that's my passion. I love it.

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Speaker 1: And this is a workshop that you have a creative

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Speaker 1: you created, created it. It is all I do it

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Speaker 1: worldwide via webcam. It's online, it's self pace to do

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Speaker 1: at your own house. Um, I can't believe your birth

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Speaker 1: for children, and you were just telling me it wasn't

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Speaker 1: even an easy road for you to get pregnant. It's

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Speaker 1: not like whoops a daisy the first one happened, and

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Speaker 1: whoops a daisy the next you know. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: you were this fertile myrtle like popping them out every second.

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Speaker 1: It was a road for you, it really was. It

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Speaker 1: took us seven years and we went down that entire

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Speaker 1: infertility path. Um we tried I U I I VF

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Speaker 1: I mean road that path so closely didn't happen, And

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Speaker 1: funny enough, at the right time when it did work,

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Speaker 1: it just worked. And in between the four like they

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Speaker 1: really just came wow, and did you have any postpartum

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Speaker 1: depression postpartum blues? You know? So it was very interesting

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Speaker 1: because we live in California, We have no family out here,

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Speaker 1: all of our families back on the East Coast, and

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Speaker 1: so we really were on our own. So thankfully I

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Speaker 1: didn't have any postpartum depression. Definitely some blues going on,

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Speaker 1: but it was after my second one was born. That

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Speaker 1: I just was like, there's got to be more out there.

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Speaker 1: And that's really what set me on this quest to

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Speaker 1: figure out what's in the research, what's in the data,

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Speaker 1: what's practically available, because there's got to be something like

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Speaker 1: there's no way that we just have a baby and

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Speaker 1: we just say, Okay, now you're on your own figure

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Speaker 1: it out. But that is what it is. But we're

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Speaker 1: not going to let that be what it is anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you and me've together hand in hand. I was not prepared.

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Speaker 1: I had done everything on the list. I had bought

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Speaker 1: all the stuff. I had a lactation specialist book to

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Speaker 1: come to the house. I had really done my workshops

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Speaker 1: on a vaginal birth versus necessarian birth, like I had

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Speaker 1: done all of the sort of scientific boxes you check

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Speaker 1: off the list, and then had a beautiful pregnancy. I

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Speaker 1: had a beautiful labor, and as soon as I got home,

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Speaker 1: I lost my fucking ship. And the only thing I

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Speaker 1: had done which was preventative was I had had a

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Speaker 1: conversation with my husband that sounded something like, if we

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Speaker 1: get to two weeks postpartum and you look at me

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Speaker 1: and you don't recognize what you see or what you're hearing,

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Speaker 1: please tap me on the shoulder and tell me to

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Speaker 1: call my therapist because I don't know if I'm going

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Speaker 1: to have the wherewithal to recognize it within myself, and

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Speaker 1: you're my partner in this, and if you're feeling like

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Speaker 1: I'm in a funk and I can't get out, And

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Speaker 1: he tapped me on the shoulder and he was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking notes from the night nurse because I think

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Speaker 1: you're going to get on a plane and live in

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Speaker 1: Europe with a false identity and I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: raising our child by herself because you are, uh, not

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Speaker 1: liking this. I remember breaking down, crying, saying I'm not

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Speaker 1: temming any fun a lot, and um, my therapist was

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Speaker 1: wonderful and we checked in and I couldn't get out

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Speaker 1: of the house because I was sitting on donuts and

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Speaker 1: bleeding and I was a disgusting mess. And I did

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Speaker 1: phoners with her, and after a couple of sessions, at

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Speaker 1: the very least, I was making fun of the whole situation,

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Speaker 1: so I knew that there was comedy there and there

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Speaker 1: was humor, which to me is always a way out.

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Speaker 1: And it lifted and shifted around week four and six,

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Speaker 1: but we've had guests on this show and close friends

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Speaker 1: of mine who it did not lift, and I mean

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Speaker 1: not getting into bed for six months, I mean life

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Speaker 1: changing and also worse with the second. And it's interesting,

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Speaker 1: and first, let's even acknowledge how insightful and intuitive you

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Speaker 1: are that you even had the wherewithal to say that

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Speaker 1: to Adam beforehand. Both probably don't even do that, and

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Speaker 1: they really don't, because, you know, first of all, it's

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Speaker 1: this thing that we put blinders on and we're just

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Speaker 1: so afraid of and we just kind of want to

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Speaker 1: ignore that. We just keep moving. And again that notion

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Speaker 1: of there's nothing to do to prepare for postpartum. So

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Speaker 1: I'm off the huck, you know, really it does. You're

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Speaker 1: supposed to be happy, like you're like, this is supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the greatest time in your life. You just

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Speaker 1: had a baby. My best friend had a baby right

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Speaker 1: before I did, and she was on her knees having

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Speaker 1: a completely different experience than me. She was like, I

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Speaker 1: wake up in the middle of the night crying because

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy. I never felt like this, And she

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Speaker 1: was like, I am so in love with my husband

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Speaker 1: and I'm so in love with my baby, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just scared that something bad is going to happen. Now,

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Speaker 1: she was having more of an anxiety reaction where I

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Speaker 1: was just crying and peeing on the floor, like I

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Speaker 1: just was a disaster area. But she was having a

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Speaker 1: polar different experience. And that's when I was like, holy

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Speaker 1: sh it, we are not prepared for this for sure.

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Speaker 1: Well and even as you say that, like the term

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Speaker 1: in the field now is perry natal mood and anxiety disorders.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about postpartum illnesses, that's what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about now. We're not talking about just depression. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about anxiety, tell me, obsessive compulsive disorder, bipolar, post traumatic

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Speaker 1: stress disorder, mania, and in rare but severe cases, psychosis.

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Speaker 1: So it really really runs the gamut. And the other

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Speaker 1: our side of it is is that we know that

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Speaker 1: can start doing pregnancy, you know, and for some women,

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Speaker 1: like you said, it's going to be anxious. For some

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Speaker 1: it's even going to be rageful. This just uncontrolled, bridal rage.

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Speaker 1: They don't even know where it's coming from. And talk

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Speaker 1: about a sham talking about this. We're talking about that

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Speaker 1: it's happening. That's horrible. Oh, it makes me so upset

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Speaker 1: and if I can express I felt just from going

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Speaker 1: through my experience now when people have babies and I

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Speaker 1: send them texts, people I know, I'm always very careful

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Speaker 1: in that I don't text things which really triggered me postpartum,

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Speaker 1: which was aren't you so blessed out? I used to

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Speaker 1: get texts like that, and I would feel so upset

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Speaker 1: that I wasn't feeling those things because exactly now, when

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Speaker 1: I send text to people who have babies, I say

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Speaker 1: things like, you're incredible, You're doing great, I'm here for

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Speaker 1: you if you need anything. What else can you say?

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Speaker 1: But that's perfect because it's a reassurance that we all need.

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Speaker 1: And I want you to know a third of this

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Speaker 1: workshop that I do is all of Perry neatle mood

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Speaker 1: and anxiety disorders. Let's give you the education beforehand. Let's

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Speaker 1: do what you did, which is really bring partners into

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Speaker 1: the mix and say, hey, you're likely going to be

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Speaker 1: the first one to notice that your partner is struggling.

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Speaker 1: And if that happens, here's what you can say. Here's

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Speaker 1: what we don't want you to say. It's no one's

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Speaker 1: fault these things happen. It's also super treatable. So let's

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Speaker 1: really get on top of that. Do you think people

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Speaker 1: don't want to do preventative work because they're scared? Do

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Speaker 1: you think there are women and partners who are like,

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Speaker 1: let's not even acknowledge that it's a possibility, because if

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Speaker 1: we do, then it's going to get in our head

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Speaker 1: and it's going to happen for sure. It's like the

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Speaker 1: same thing of I don't want to say it out

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Speaker 1: loud because once I put words to it, then it's real.

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Speaker 1: And what do you say to that? So what I

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Speaker 1: say is is like exactly what you say. First of all,

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Speaker 1: it's not catchy, and it's really quite the opposite, right

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Speaker 1: that information and education is powerful. You're so right, because

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Speaker 1: you are because my biggest fear in my whole life

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Speaker 1: was labor. And what did I do. I looked at

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Speaker 1: it square in the fucking face, and I spent ten

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Speaker 1: months studying as much as I could. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the nurses were so blown away at seaters by how

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Speaker 1: many questions and answers I had to my experience, and

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Speaker 1: it was fucking awesome, But it was because I was

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Speaker 1: fucking prepared and I was like, I knew exactly what

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Speaker 1: was happening, what I was feeling. I felt like it

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Speaker 1: was all mine to be had in every way that

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Speaker 1: could have been thrown my way. Like, I just felt

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Speaker 1: like I was armed with knowledge for sure, for sure,

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Speaker 1: And you look the bully in the face and you

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Speaker 1: stared him down. Yes, that's how I felt. And that's anxiety.

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Speaker 1: Anxiety tricks us into thinking we've never done this before,

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Speaker 1: so we can't possibly have any resources or tools to

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Speaker 1: bring to the table. It's not true, not because even

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Speaker 1: if you've never had a baby before, you've been in

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Speaker 1: situations that have been trying and challenging physically or emotionally,

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Speaker 1: and whatever work then is going to work here too.

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Speaker 1: And so we don't want to come in thinking we've

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Speaker 1: got nothing at our disposal. We've got a ton of

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Speaker 1: stuff at our disposal. We just need to know when

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Speaker 1: to remember to bring it into this context for sure.

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Speaker 1: That's and go you, by the way, because I was awesome.

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Speaker 1: That's so great to know that this, this preventative work,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, is a real a real game changer,

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Speaker 1: and a real thing that is not out there. Um,

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Speaker 1: you also said it staggering statistic to me, which was

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Speaker 1: how many women feel some sort of blues situation after

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Speaker 1: a baby. So upward of eighty percent of women experience

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Speaker 1: the blues, guys, So it's not even it's normal. Anything

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Speaker 1: that eight percent of a population is experiencing, in my book,

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Speaker 1: is completely normal. And it's what we now understand is

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Speaker 1: it's part of this collaboration that happens after you have

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Speaker 1: a baby. Your hormones were at these crazy all time

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Speaker 1: highs and they come low, they plumb it really quickly,

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Speaker 1: and your body and your brain just needs time to

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Speaker 1: again just to readjust to that. Part of the experience

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Speaker 1: is going to be feeling out of sorts, crying for

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Speaker 1: no reason, not feeling like yourself, not feeling grounded in

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Speaker 1: this new experience. And one of the things that we

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Speaker 1: hear women, or that I hear women talk about all

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Speaker 1: the time, is just feeling overwhelmed. You're recovering not just

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Speaker 1: from birth, but from pregnancy, and then someone throws you

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Speaker 1: a baby and says, here, now take care of this

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Speaker 1: seven Oh my god, you guys, it's a lot. And

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Speaker 1: then they're like, guess what at three months you go

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Speaker 1: back to work or less or never, which is also

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Speaker 1: another question. I mean, there's just a lot of identity

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Speaker 1: shifts happening at one time while you're dealing with hormones.

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Speaker 1: Whether you decide to breastfeed or not, that's a whole

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Speaker 1: hormonal leap when you stop, when you start, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of these things. Um, one more statistic to throw

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Speaker 1: into the myth LEAs that's two thirds of couples experience

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Speaker 1: it's a client in their relationship satisfaction after having a baby. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, all of a sudden, there's another thing, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're used to being in a relationship. If

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Speaker 1: you are in one, that it's just you and that person,

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Speaker 1: and that's the priorities and whatever. So let's segue into that.

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Speaker 1: How in the hell should I have baby proof my

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Speaker 1: I love this? Is this your terminology to baby proof

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Speaker 1: the relationship baby or? Is that a thing? Right? It's

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Speaker 1: like out there and like the pop culture and the

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Speaker 1: pop world, all this love baby proving. Yeah. I went

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Speaker 1: with the afterbirth plan figuring Again, everyone's focuses on creating

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Speaker 1: a birth plan, but who really thinks of an afterbirth plan? No? Oh,

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Speaker 1: so it really is about people making a actual plan. Really,

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Speaker 1: like people who are listening who had a birth plann

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Speaker 1: er didn't just to clarify like a birth plan would

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Speaker 1: be like it would be lovely to not have an epidural,

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Speaker 1: or have an epidural, or they literally list cut the cord,

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Speaker 1: not cut the cord after this amount of time, or

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Speaker 1: have this person in the room, not have this person

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Speaker 1: in the room. They kind of write down although now

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Speaker 1: the term more is birth goals, so that we don't

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Speaker 1: get so connected to the plan, I might have to

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Speaker 1: change that plan right now exactly. So maybe it has

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Speaker 1: to be the afterbirth goals, you know, maybe we have

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Speaker 1: to kind of go with that. They after birth plan.

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Speaker 1: I think it's great. Hey, if you like it, I

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Speaker 1: think it's great. What would be the examples of, um,

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Speaker 1: what people would put in an afterbirth plan? So that's

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Speaker 1: a great question, right, So I'm even going to take

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Speaker 1: a step back first because when I think about relationships,

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Speaker 1: I think about walking up and down. Ask later, because

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Speaker 1: I use that escalator analogy to kind of highlight what

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Speaker 1: are the things we want to put in that afterbirth plan.

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Speaker 1: So let's stick with that, right, Relationships are like walking

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Speaker 1: up a down escalator. What does that mean? You put

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Speaker 1: in a little bit of effort, you'll make some headway,

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Speaker 1: put in a more effort, you'll make more headway. The

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Speaker 1: second you stop actively climbing, that escalator is just naturally

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Speaker 1: going to bring you down. Yeah, and that's relationships, right.

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Speaker 1: Think about it. Put a little bit of effort into

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Speaker 1: your relationship, you'll be closer. More effort, you'll be even closer.

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Speaker 1: But the second you stop actually mindfully investing in that relationship,

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Speaker 1: the stress of life, the responsibility of life, just naturally

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Speaker 1: brings you down and farther apart. Having a baby speeds

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Speaker 1: up that escalator and it requires us to double our

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Speaker 1: efforts to stay connected. So part of that escalator is

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Speaker 1: what are the things that pull us apart and pull

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Speaker 1: us down? Incidentally, I'm totally with you because ground zero

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Speaker 1: for me is forgetting to have fun. Hello, I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's got to be most women, right. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: and let me tell you, Like our oldest came home

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Speaker 1: or almost came home in a towel, right because we

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Speaker 1: didn't do a lot of preps before, Like in our culture,

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Speaker 1: you don't really do much before. So after we had

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Speaker 1: the baby, Elliott went to you know the toys r

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Speaker 1: Us Babies are us and got the stuff on our registry.

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Speaker 1: He comes home with this or he came to the

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Speaker 1: hospital with this thing, and we're sitting there trying to

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Speaker 1: swaddle the baby, and these nurses are like laughing at

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Speaker 1: us on the side and they're like, idiots, it's a towel.

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Speaker 1: That's why you can't swaddle your baby. Yeah, towel does

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Speaker 1: not make a good swaddle, not at all. That's hilarious.

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Speaker 1: But again, here was one of those moments where we

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Speaker 1: either could have looked at each other with daggers of

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Speaker 1: like I can't believe you brought a towel to our

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Speaker 1: first baby, you know, or we could have been like

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Speaker 1: it's hilarious. And this story not only that, like when

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Speaker 1: we quilted out his baby clothing. Let me tell you

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Speaker 1: that's howel is Friends and Center. That was our start

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Speaker 1: of parents. I love it. So after birth plan, tell

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Speaker 1: me what would be on people's list? Is it like

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Speaker 1: appointments for therapy? Like that was mine. So that was

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Speaker 1: the only plan I had, And that's a great plan.

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Speaker 1: And definitely again use those resources that you have and

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Speaker 1: if you have a therapist in place, already have them

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Speaker 1: on special right. But so I start with first and

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Speaker 1: foremost things that you need to do to charge your

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Speaker 1: batteries and for me charging your batteries quote unquote is

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Speaker 1: charging you know, the birthing partner, the non birthing partner,

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Speaker 1: the couple, and the family. So there are four entities

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Speaker 1: every week that need nurturing and attention. It's not a

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Speaker 1: guilty pleasure. It's a necessity, right. And it's funny because

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Speaker 1: I was listening to a different Katie's Crew where they

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Speaker 1: talk about the analogy of the airplane mask, getting on

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Speaker 1: your air mask on use it all the time. I

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Speaker 1: think about it in my head all the time. I'm

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Speaker 1: like literally playing with my kid and I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: have to pee or whatever it is. But I'm just like, no,

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Speaker 1: I have to happen. And now it's become the thing

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Speaker 1: where it's like even if I have to go to

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Speaker 1: the bathroom, you know, really go to the bathroom. I

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Speaker 1: say to him, I have to have private time, like

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Like you're too. I have been sitting here

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Speaker 1: for two hours uncomfortably like playing with you because I

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Speaker 1: didn't see you it all this morning, and I feel

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Speaker 1: bad about that. So I'm going to get in my

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Speaker 1: quality two hours arown and I'm not going to leave

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Speaker 1: ten minutes to like go to the bathroom when I'm

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Speaker 1: probably going to be better at mommy ing if I

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Speaker 1: just take the ten minutes and go to the bath

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly it. Although Elliott always joked with me,

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Speaker 1: He's like, you may have taught our kids the word privacy,

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Speaker 1: you haven't taught them the concept. And I'm like, not

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Speaker 1: my choice. Hello, if you're home, I'll go by myself.

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Speaker 1: So it's self care. So that first thing is self

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Speaker 1: re charged. And again I'll use the analogy or I'll

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Speaker 1: come at it from the perspective of I would never

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Speaker 1: set my four kids down at the table and say, hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: I see that you're all hungry, but I'm hungry too,

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Speaker 1: so I'm going to feed myself first and then you guys, right,

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Speaker 1: that's okay. It's like, no, you'd be shot shot. But

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Speaker 1: that happening again that notion of maybe it should be

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Speaker 1: that way, because if I'm starving, like you said, what

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Speaker 1: kind of experiences then are going to be You're going

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Speaker 1: to be the hangryest bit like terrible. There's nothing worse

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Speaker 1: than mommying when you're starving, and that's it. So it

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Speaker 1: has to start with self care because you can't give

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Speaker 1: what you don't have period, your batteries are drained, you

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Speaker 1: get nothing to get and again grab a snack bar

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Speaker 1: and then go into dinner. It's a game changer, you know,

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Speaker 1: or a chocolate bar. If sure, sure so starts with

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Speaker 1: self care, then I'm a big proponent. Right. The things

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Speaker 1: on that escalator that bring you together are daily time

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Speaker 1: to talk, date moments, not date nights. I think date

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Speaker 1: nights stock after having a baby, because anything that competes

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Speaker 1: with sleep doomed to fail. Date moments, daytime dates, sex huge.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be there, and we wanted there on

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Speaker 1: a weekly basis. And then yes, and then there are

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Speaker 1: very practical things in terms of who is your lactation consultant,

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Speaker 1: which friends, family professionals are you going to call if

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Speaker 1: you need someone to talk to, And don't just put names,

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Speaker 1: put phone numbers because especially for struggling with any kind

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Speaker 1: of depression or anxiety, the more barriers they're, the less

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Speaker 1: likely you're going to follow through. But if you have

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Speaker 1: a piece of paper that you're partner handed you and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: it says cal Stacey and here's her number, it's a

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Speaker 1: whole lot easier to do. Interesting. So you're after plan

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Speaker 1: after birth plan, is it given to your partner. Let's say,

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Speaker 1: who can sort of hold you accountable to the after

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Speaker 1: birth plan? You guys work on it together. You guys

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Speaker 1: hold each other account exactly. It's something that couples do together.

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Speaker 1: So first of all, it's an actual document, a two

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Speaker 1: sided page document. I tell them photocopy, it's stash it

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Speaker 1: all over the house because it's your lifeline of resources.

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Speaker 1: And then we hold each other accountable. Because men or

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Speaker 1: non birthing partners also struggle with postpartum illnesses. They also

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Speaker 1: struggle with p mats. Really absolutely, what dare you even

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Speaker 1: talking about? Like they can have the saying, oh, of course,

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Speaker 1: they can have anxiety, they can have denxiety depressions. So

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Speaker 1: for men, oh my god, my husband jokes constantly about

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Speaker 1: the weight he put on after I had a baby.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the hell that's about. Seriously and very unendearing. Elliott

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Speaker 1: at our son's circumcision ceremonies was so like out of sorts,

426
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 1: talked about this kernel of popcorn stuck in his tooth

427
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: and how hard the birth was on him because he

428
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: couldn't get that Colonel out of his and I just

429
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 1: looked at him with daggers of like, yeah, it sucks

430
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 1: for you, doesn't it. Oh my god? Now, what are

431
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: the signs if it's really bad? What should we be

432
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 1: telling people listening to look out for it? Because is

433
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,679
Speaker 1: this like a technical term post part and blues? Is

434
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: that real baby blues we talk about? Is that? Okay,

435
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: that's what I had, because it definitely shifted and I

436
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: could get out of bed and I was getting up

437
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: to breastfeed, and my therapist was asking me key questions

438
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 1: like that, like are you getting up to feed him?

439
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you want to do anything dangerous

440
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 1: to yourself or to your baby? And things like that,

441
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 1: and I did not feel that way. And I was

442
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: making fun of myself endlessly, which was like thank god

443
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 1: I had was able to laugh, you know. Um, And

444
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 1: then again I did feel myself come back to myself.

445
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 1: But to be honest, I did not feel like myself

446
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 1: until my baby turned probably eighteen months two years. And

447
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's because I stopped breastfeeding in

448
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: a year, but like it's only now that I'm like,

449
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: oh right, remember this ship, Like you're like a person, right,

450
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: So what are the signs that people should be looking

451
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: for within themselves or partners or loved ones or parents

452
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 1: should be looking for when they're like, you know what,

453
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: I really feel like we are not enough and professionals

454
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: need to be seeked. And eighteen months to two years

455
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 1: is actually a really long time. And what I would

456
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: question or wonder if there weren't like different steps along

457
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,959
Speaker 1: the way, you know, in terms of time frame. Right,

458
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: let's kind of you know, talk about that for a second.

459
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: Usually two to three days after birth, for the first

460
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: two to three weeks is the realm of baby blues.

461
00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: I had that right exactly. We're talking upwards of people

462
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: between those two days and three weeks. It's a real sad, weird, sad,

463
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,959
Speaker 1: weird out of sorts. Myself crying out of nowhere, laughing

464
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 1: for no reason, although not usually as bothers had. Both

465
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 1: of I had all that. That's it. We feel so

466
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: out of control and out of sorts, and there's so

467
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: many things that are happening. My sister was that go

468
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: to person of like, I don't even know what's coming

469
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: out of me anymore, but that feeling of like just

470
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: all over the place, super out of control, right, And

471
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: The thing to know about the baby blues is that,

472
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: first of all, it usually does go away on its own.

473
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: There are things that we can do to help it

474
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: go away. Anything you're going to do to take care

475
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: of your physical self is going to be really helpful.

476
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: So really good nutritive food, you know, walk around the block.

477
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 1: Al mighty shower is amazing. Almighty shower is that was

478
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: my gear up every single night. I would like take

479
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: a shower at like six thirty to like prepare to

480
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: get through the evening, and I would just let the

481
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: water hit my back and would sob right. Um. So,

482
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: then after that three week period, So after that three

483
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: week period and first son, you know, the p mats

484
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: can even start to encroach on that time. But really

485
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: at that three week mark, if there's still stuff going on,

486
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: we've segued out of the baby blooth and we've segued

487
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: into something bigger, into those p mats. So Perry natal

488
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: mood and anxiety disorders Perry natals from conception through that

489
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: first year of life, and that's usually that time period

490
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: that we're looking at. And like we said, mood and

491
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: anxiety disorders, it's depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, which I

492
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: probably see the most of. Yeah, what does that look like?

493
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: What are the symptoms of that? You know? So it's

494
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: that combination of the obsession, this intrusive thought that's just

495
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: sticky and won't go away, and then a compulsion or

496
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: a behavior you know, either mental or you know, something

497
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: in actuality that we do to alleviate that anxiety. So

498
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: we all have intrusive thoughts in our lives, right, we

499
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: all have those, you know, weird thoughts of like, gosh,

500
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: what would happen if like the hatch on the plane

501
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: opens up and you're like, Okay, that was weird, and

502
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: then we kind of like go back to reading our

503
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: book and hope that Niagara falls and thinks about what happen,

504
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: like what happens my fault, what happens if their very

505
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: honest or like being in trafic and just wanting to

506
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: zoom your way through and then you come right, So

507
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: totally normal. Someone who struggles with O c D. It's

508
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: like there's chewing gum stuck to the end of that

509
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: thought and they can't seem to shake it. And the

510
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: more it lingers, the more it starts to build up

511
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: this anxiety this feeling of just a live wire going

512
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: through your body. And what they do is is that

513
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: they need to do something to make it go away.

514
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 1: So the woman who's afraid of germs may wash her

515
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: hands until they're bleeding, you know. The person who's afraid

516
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: of dropping their baby will never carry their baby up

517
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,479
Speaker 1: the stairs. Yeah, and that's a very popular one. It's

518
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: actually one of the more common ones that we see

519
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: with postpartum. Yeah, are there any women that feel like

520
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: the car accident situation, because that was the one where

521
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, we're all dying, like or I

522
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: was like kept seeing just t bone into my car,

523
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: baby and car seat flying through air. Well, let's think

524
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: about it. You I have a heart or a lung

525
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: or in Oregon on the outside, like, we don't feel

526
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: any more vulnerable than when we have a baby, and

527
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: that feel it's hard fighting right and then again so

528
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: we do something or we need that constant reassurance You're

529
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: sure it's okay, you're sure he's okay, you're sure he

530
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: ate enough? Did you really eat enough? How many ounces

531
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: did you take it? Right? And then it's like okay,

532
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: right until that thought crops up again and we kind

533
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: of go back into that same pattern I've I've had

534
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: so many moms really harp on one or two or

535
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: three things in the beginning, and then it's so funny

536
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: once they get some space and some time from it.

537
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: Like I was one of those. I was obsessed with

538
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: how much he was eating, because when you're breastfeeding, it's

539
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: hard to be able to tell. And he's not eating enough,

540
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: and he's small, and he's not needing enough an he's

541
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: small and and he's not getting weight. So that became

542
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: my obsession. I have some you know, who are obsessed

543
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: with their baby has a lot of reflux, so they

544
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: become obsessive about an elimination diet to figure out what

545
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: it is. But it's like literally eating them away, like

546
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: how to fix this? But my guess is if it

547
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: doesn't move into a true postpartum depressed shin or true

548
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: like we're looking into medication and we're looking into some

549
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: not a true depression or anxiety or obsessive compulsive that's

550
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: kind of lifts on its own within some time. So

551
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: and that's what we know. So really after three weeks,

552
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: anything that's happening on that other side really is going

553
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: to require a professional help good to know, right, So

554
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: like one out of seven about you know, women will

555
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: struggle with a postpartum depression. One out of seven ladies

556
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: listen to that. One out of seven will feel after

557
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: three weeks a real still sadness that is not lifted

558
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: or shifted and it's time together. And how many do

559
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: we know are dealing with anxiety or and so that's

560
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: really interesting and I'm pretty convinced that the statistics are wrong.

561
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: People aren't talking about right three to six percent we

562
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: think for O c D or that's what we have documented.

563
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: There's no And again it's what I'm seeing more than anything.

564
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: What do people do when they see that we've made

565
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: it over the three week mark and we're getting worse

566
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: or we're not get any better. And that's where professional

567
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: help comes in. Um psychotherapy is huge medication when you

568
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 1: know the right time in the right place is awesome,

569
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: absolutely and a huge part of the picture. And again

570
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: here's one of those things where there's so much stigma.

571
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 1: But unless you're in your that person shoes, no judgment, none,

572
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 1: because no one should struggle or suffer when they have

573
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: a baby. And it's so treatable. We want everything you

574
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: need to make yourself a better mom and I feel better. Well,

575
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: anything that's going to make you feel better about yourself

576
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: is going to make you a better mom. And done.

577
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: I mean the things they're both so cyclical. So what

578
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 1: do people do who are listening that maybe don't live

579
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles or a big city. How do they

580
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: find do all therapists specialized in postpartum depression? Like, how

581
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 1: would you even find? Like? Is? You'll send me some

582
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: link for that that we can like, because I'm so

583
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: obsessed with helping women in this postpartum time. Because look,

584
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: you Katie Scribb listeners, you know me. I'm pretty fucking jovial.

585
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: I'm a very glass half full person. I was super

586
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: stoked to become a mom and I could have never

587
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: seen it coming that out of my friends who all

588
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: had babies, all at a very similar time, I was

589
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: the one who was super fucking sad. And I don't

590
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: think my husband really saw that coming either. The one

591
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: thing that I kept coming back to, which I really

592
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: feel like was my experience, was I had this guest

593
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: on Kay's Crib named Talia. She's incredible, and she created

594
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: this beautiful baby food that was Albie's first foods um

595
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: and she's a duel also, and I did a workshop

596
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 1: with her and she had postpartum depression and had to

597
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: take medication. She's very open about it, but she was

598
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,479
Speaker 1: saying she met her daughter and it wasn't love at

599
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: first sight, and it wasn't for me either. It was

600
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: a slow burn. For some people it's love at first

601
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: sight and they're into it, and some people it is

602
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: just a slow fucking burn. Like I got hit with

603
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: my lightning bolts of love for my son around six weeks,

604
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: Like that's just what happened, and I think for some

605
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: people it could be way later. Well, And think about

606
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: the expectation sometimes, like with every single kid I tour,

607
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: so that always meant stitches involved, and the doctor would

608
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: have been doing his stuff down there, and they'd always

609
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: be like to want to hold the baby? Do you

610
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: want a certain nurse thing too? And I'm like, can

611
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: we finish down there? I really can't think straight until

612
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: that's done. But like that expectation, you know, and it's

613
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: so intense. And really what we're saying is that there's

614
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: there's two times in our lives where oxytocin really runs large.

615
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: When we're falling in love and around attachment with babies,

616
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: and you're just saying, hey, I knew me or you didn't,

617
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: but now we know you that you are the slow

618
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: burn or my time kind of girl, slow burner, And

619
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: that's okay, right, we're gonna coin that slow burner. I

620
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: was the slow bitner. What about I have a friend

621
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: who was like, I got postpartum depression. It's six months postpartum.

622
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: Is that true about? Are you joking? Well, think about

623
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: all the changes that happened in that first year and

624
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: when you're going back to work, when your partner's going

625
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: back to work, when you're stopping to breastfeed, it's just

626
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: a year of learning curves, and yeah, throughout that entire

627
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: year you can have a postpartum illness. Absolutely. Do you

628
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: see across the board that it is so much more

629
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: of a shock for people's first than second, or sometimes

630
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: it is for people's second and first. And what about

631
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: you personally? It's by fourth and I think it was

632
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: it was who said I think Hillary Baldwin said like

633
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: by the fourth, it's just another kid at the zero,

634
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: or it's like it's just another animal of the zero,

635
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: which was totally true. By four, Um, I find right.

636
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: I find for after that initial transition with baby number one.

637
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: I find for women it's harder with two, and for

638
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: men it's harder with three. Should you go to three? No? Wow?

639
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: So really, because think about it, most of the time,

640
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: when your partner's home, you're home. So with two kids,

641
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: you're outnumbered, but they are not. They don't get out

642
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: number till three because at three it doesn't matter whose

643
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: home you're inherently outnumbered. Wow. Do you have any patients

644
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: who had postpartum depression? Not the first one, but yes

645
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: on the second one, or yes on the first one.

646
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: If you had it on the first, is it more

647
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: likely with the second? On the first, it's more likely.

648
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: It is an increased risk factor. But it's important for

649
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: people to know that a risk factor doesn't mean it's

650
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: going to happen. But so much depends on what's going

651
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: on in life at that time. Where are you, where

652
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: are your partner? You know, I've seen a lot of

653
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: couples where they'll struggle after baby number one with the relationship,

654
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: never really get it back on track. Think, hey, we'll

655
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: sell you know, we'll segue into baby number two. That'll

656
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: fix it. Yeah, And that's a real show. It really

657
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: is because listen, as lovable and as cozy and yummy

658
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: as they are, babies are stress. And the goal is

659
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: is how can we keep that stress an outside force

660
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: and not a divisive force within us? And that's the difference.

661
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: What do you talk about this this baby proofing a relationship?

662
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: I asked a little bit before, but how do people

663
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: protect honor their relationship when it's about to go through

664
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: that statistic you said of like two thirds of one

665
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: two thirds of couples experience that's decline, which means one

666
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: third of couples didn't experience as decline and they're happy,

667
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: those idiots kidding. I'm so happy for you. I'm so

668
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: happy for you that you're thriving. Well, the two thirds

669
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: of us just sleep. There's no shortcuts for taking time

670
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: to talk, taking time together, and making sure that you

671
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: don't put your relationship on the side and get sucked

672
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: into that baby voor tax. But instead you recognize that

673
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: this has to be my primary focus. I am a

674
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: big believer that to be a good parent, you need

675
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: to be a good partner, right, that the ability to

676
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: parent really comes from your capacity to partner, and so,

677
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: and it's recognizing that when we devote time to our

678
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: primary relationship, we're not doing it at the expense of

679
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: our kids. We're doing it for our kids. That's really

680
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: a strong and astute I talked about this and my

681
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: girlfriends sometimes like who out of us parents do you

682
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: think put the kids first? And who do you think

683
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: put the partner first? I can already see myself slipping

684
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: and do mean the kid is first? Like, I'm fucked,

685
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: But that's what my mom did. I also think it's

686
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: like some sort of thing of what you were raised

687
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: with and what you saw. I have a really good

688
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: friend who's like, no, no, My parents always made it

689
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: very clear that they and their relationship was more important

690
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: than us, and I was like, wow, what is that

691
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: like and what does that do? That's amazing, It is amazing.

692
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: And the crazy thing is and especially as we've said,

693
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: weight into teenagers, right, they're now very vocal. You're going

694
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: out on day night again. And my thirteen year old

695
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: in particular, like any time my husband and I are affectionate, like,

696
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: she'll find a way to like scoot in between us

697
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: like that all the time I kissed my husband and

698
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: he's like, now, mommy's mine. Like it's like the whole thing,

699
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: and it doesn't want us together, doesn't want it right.

700
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: And she's like, if you haven't need to kiss kiss me,

701
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: you could both kiss me, which is sort of cute,

702
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: sort of cute sort of. But it was really interesting

703
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: because like we have you know, company on Saturday all

704
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: the time, yes, and we had a seri ease of

705
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: just divorced people like it just happened to be. And

706
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: I realized like it was a new experience for my kids,

707
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, we should talk about this,

708
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: like they haven't been around a lot of divorce people.

709
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: And so I was talking to my girls and I

710
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: was like, you know, so so and so is divorced,

711
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: what does that mean to you? And they were like, well,

712
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: I know it's not gonna happen to you guys. And

713
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, fine, right, So that notion that's

714
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: somewhere it's gone into you that mom and dad love

715
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: each other and you're a very strong and that were

716
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: solid and you're a solid And that's not to say

717
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: that we didn't struggle along the way twenty three years

718
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 1: of marriage. Let me tell you there's been many ups

719
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: and downright, some higher some but that notion of stability

720
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: and knowing that they're safe. Adam and I went on

721
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: a date last night for the first time in two years. Guys, okay,

722
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: but first of many, first of many, Like it was

723
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: crazy and um, it was so romantic and lovely. But

724
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: you're right, it's this date moment thing that needs to

725
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: be And here was my after birth plan, Damna, absolutely,

726
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do it now two years. Here's my

727
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: litmus test. When you come home, if you're kissing baby

728
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: before happy, you know that we need to switch it.

729
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: That's a big switchero. Oh yeah, I do that. I

730
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: do that, admitting it right now. I think if I

731
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: kiss either admitting it's the first up Katie admitting I

732
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: definitely do that, I think, but he does too. Okay, well,

733
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 1: we need to have a conversation because you're gonna start

734
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: kissing each other and I can't wait for him to

735
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: listen to this episode. Um, tell me about other ways

736
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: that people can baby proof their relationship besides date moments,

737
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: besides trying to have this after birth plan that each

738
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: person in the relationship has sort of written down and

739
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: can hold each other accountable for right. Absolutely daily conversations.

740
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: We want to make sure that no more than twenty

741
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: four hours ever go by with the two without the

742
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: two of you sitting down and being like, I remember you.

743
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: Because it's the little day to day or the minutia

744
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: of our day to day that really bonds us together.

745
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: So we want to start there. When do you do it?

746
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: It's a great question. I'm like you fourge children, and

747
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: you're like a very successful working woman, and he is

748
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: a very successful business Like, what if you guys have time?

749
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: Then I have literally no excuse. You're going on dates?

750
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: What the hell? Yes we are. Do you go to

751
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: bed at the same time? No, yeah, we don't either.

752
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: Do you talk in the morning on the phone? Is

753
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: it be a text? All? All good questions. Sometimes we'll

754
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: do it in the office. Lucky enough we work together.

755
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: And although what I'll say, Plan A is you do

756
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: it face to face for me, A Plan B is

757
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: that it at least happens daily. So we'll do it

758
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: a lot on the phone. He's driving to this home visit,

759
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 1: I'm driving to this appointment. But we'll find that time

760
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: to connect. Tell me about your day, what was great,

761
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: what was horrible? What was awesome? Like, oh, I love that,

762
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: you know what, that's what keeps you together because otherwise

763
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: it's like, wait, you look kind of familiar, but I

764
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: don't really know you, and I don't really even know

765
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: where to start, right, and that's really hard. So no

766
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: more than twenty four hours without having a conversation, no

767
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: more than seven days without a eight and without sex.

768
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: And those are two like these rules. That's right. Wow,

769
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: And it's so funny because in the years that I've

770
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: done this and worked with couples, and I always encourage

771
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: couples to come back to me with like, I'll recommend

772
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: you plan it, you schedule it, Like what did you

773
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: do to make it work for you? So one couple

774
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: came back with this notion of they call it winning

775
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: their dates, and again totally gave me permission. I'm like,

776
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: I'm taking that what is right? And so what they

777
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: do is they start their date moment with sex and

778
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: this way, this is great, this is this is me

779
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: and it's the it's the thing of like, don't ever

780
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: save sex or after the dinner date because it's not happening, right,

781
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: it's not happening. It's not happening, but you're gonna still

782
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: go through the mind game of is he thinking it's happening,

783
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: it's still expecting it to happen. And then another couple

784
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: came up with and this was great because they were like,

785
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: putting sex on the calendar felt like too much pressure.

786
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: So for them, it's get naked and cut all night.

787
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: Oh that's so key, right, isn't that? Um? How do

788
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: we break away? This is a big question on all

789
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: my last ones. How do we break away from the

790
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: stigma that we're being a bad mom if we're not

791
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: a hundred percent all the time, so a hundred percent

792
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: of the time doesn't exist, and what we want to

793
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: aspire for is the good enough mom. How do we

794
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: do it? We surround ourselves with other people who are

795
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: real and are willing to share real go to mommy

796
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: and me groups, go to you know, other places where

797
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: you can really just talk and be like, gosh, you're

798
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: going through that. Also, I just had a client that

799
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: I had referred her to this mommy and me group awesome,

800
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: I mean me group here in l a Nancy Beta.

801
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: Everyone who goes feels loved and nurtured and you can't

802
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: go wrong. So I had made this referral and she

803
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: had went and we had talked about it afterwards and

804
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: she was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea

805
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: that so many other people were struggling with intimacy. And

806
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: you're like, bingo, Yeah, it's just the not feeling alone,

807
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: not alone, and hey, you're normal, which is why Katie's

808
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 1: Crib is where it's at. People. I feel very lucky

809
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: that I live in l A and I have this

810
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: like awesome mom crew, and I just hope, like my

811
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: goal and dream for Katie's Crib is that we provide

812
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: a crew for moms who are by themselves or need

813
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: a really good laugh and to not feel by themselves

814
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: and feel like they have access to help that they

815
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: need to feel supported in whatever choices they're making. For sure, No,

816
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: it's huge. What you do for new moms and for

817
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: new couples is huge because you right back at you.

818
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: Thank you, But there's nothing that you're not willing to

819
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: talk about, which come on, which is huge. But that's it.

820
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: We need more of that, just open, honest, real we're

821
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: all going through. Yes, Um, if you were to give

822
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: a key piece of advice to expecting moms, what in

823
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: the hell would it be? It would be to slow

824
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: down and love yourself. Hmm, that's really hard. What would

825
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: it be. I wanted to be real. I wanted to

826
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: be something that's pragmatic that they can take home, but

827
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: also to slow down and love themselves because well, because

828
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: I feel like that is our biggest struggle in life.

829
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: The pace of life is just not normal and it's

830
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: not sustainable. Okay, put your relationship first. Recognize that everything

831
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: is better when you and your partner are intact. And

832
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: if you don't have a partner, if you're going it alone,

833
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: find your village. We say that the village disappeared, It

834
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: didn't it just more so find your village to point

835
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: out but I would be dead in the water. Find

836
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: your key people. Find your key people, and make sure

837
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: they text you post baby that they love you and

838
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: they're there for you. And Katie told you exactly what

839
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: you should be texting, because those dumb things like isn't

840
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: it amazing? With eight thousand exclamation points, like just don't know,

841
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: because it would not be amazing for somebody, right, you

842
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: know what that it's isn't it amazing? Text? Does it

843
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: shuts down the conversation before it ever started, because you've

844
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: now made it no longer. Okay for that woman to

845
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: be like, no, this sucks and I'm struggling. Yeah, you're

846
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: just like sorry. Obviously there's no space for that, right.

847
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: But when you say hey, I love you and I'm

848
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: here for you and there's nothing we can't talk about

849
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: that I could follow up. That's it. Yeah, that's it.

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00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: And you had asked about what people out of l

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00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: A can do, and I just want to make sure

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00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: we start back around that. So, first of all, I

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00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: do coaching worldwide, so anyone who it's anything, reach out

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00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: and I will always help you find what you need.

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00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: But Postpartum Support International is a huge and incredible organization.

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00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm one of their coordinators out here in l A.

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00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: But they are international in so many different states and

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00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: countries and they are a well spring of information and

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00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: resources where you can connect with a coordinator in your

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00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: area and they will help you find your people. Uh see,

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00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: this is so wonderful. I can't tell you. I just

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00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: think the work you're doing is so valuable and important,

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00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: and I just want to encourage our listeners to really

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00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: take care of themselves and to any expecting mothers in

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00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: their lives because help is out there and we're really

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00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: trying to break these stigmas down about mental health and

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00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: pregnancy and postpartum and all of these things. And thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being on Kid's Grip. Okay, this

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00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: is awesome. Thank you for having me. I adore you.

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Speaker 1: You guys are always curious about your questions, comments, concerns.

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00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 1: Email me Katie's Crib at Shannah land dot com. Thanks

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00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: for listening. Katie's Grim is a production of Shonda land

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00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I heart Radio. For more podcasts

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00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 1: from Shonda land Audio, visit the I heart Radio app,

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00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: I Want you want to Watch