1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: text style from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Polette 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: and I am an editor here at how stuff works 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: dot com, sitting across from me as usual as senior 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: writer Jonathan Strickland. And please do pay attention to the 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: men behind the curtain. Oh boy, we're in our new digs. 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: Oh yes, our brand new studio has been completed. Yes, 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: and uh, and now there's a curtain separating us from Jerry, 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 1: so we can't see when she's you know, surfing Facebook 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: or whatever. She can do whatever she likes, and we'll 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: be back here in our own little room. In fact, 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: she might not even be in there anymore. We don't know. 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: All right, then well we should we should, we should 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: go ahead and get started. Then, yes, let's do that. Actually, 17 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: we are recording this um just before I am about 18 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: to leave the office to go catch a flight, So 19 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: if we talk quickly, that's why, because I need to 20 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: go and get on a plane. But we're gonna talk 21 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: about dr M or digital rights management and exactly what 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: it is and why some people are really against the 23 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: whole idea in the first place. Um, But to really 24 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: talk about DRM, we kind of have to step back 25 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: and just talking about copy protection in general. Yes, because um, well, 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: actually before we even really get into that, I just 27 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: like to point something out, um, that digital rights management 28 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: is supposed to be about who owns what essentially, and uh, 29 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 1: you know, if you buy a program off the shelf, 30 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: take it home and put it on your computer, the 31 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: the people who make it basically want to ensure that 32 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: they can't you know, that you can't make as many 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: copies as you want to give them to all your friends. 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: Thereby they only sold one copy of this software. Well, 35 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: the thing is, though, there are a lot of other 36 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: digital rights involved, uh, including yours. You have rights to 37 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: that software. So it should be pointed out that copy 38 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: protection is only one part of the digital rights spectrum. 39 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: And you know, digital rights management sort of as a 40 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: bad name simply because of that. And that's why people 41 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: are so upset because they view it simply as copy protection. 42 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: But we can we can get into that a little 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: bit later. We should just go ahead and get into 44 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: copy protection. Yeah, let's talk about copy protection, and we'll 45 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: we'll work our way into why some people feel DRM 46 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: is far too restrictive and that it goes well beyond 47 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: copy protection to the point where it can actually ruin 48 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,839 Speaker 1: your your experience as a customer. But we'll sure, we'll 49 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: really dive into that. So copy protection is pretty much 50 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: self explanatory. It's a method of protecting a work from 51 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: being copied illegally and distributed beyond the rights holders. Um 52 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: uh scope right. So uh in the olden days, way 53 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: way way way back, when a copy of protection really 54 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: wasn't that important. And for instance, a book, if I 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: were to public a really long book, it would be 56 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: difficult for anyone else to make a copy of that 57 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: book without going to great links and using a lot 58 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: of time and effort to do so. Yes, as a 59 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: matter of fact, that's uh, that's a big reason why 60 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't an issue people that the publishers really just 61 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: simply were not concerned that people were going to run 62 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: out and copy these things by hand, and what are 63 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: they going You would either have to write it down, 64 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: longhand or you would have to create, you know, build 65 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: up printing press and and copy it that way, or 66 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: eventually you get to the point where you can mimiograph 67 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: or xerox pages, but even then you're doing it page 68 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: by page. It was such a laborious and uh an 69 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: unrewarding task, especially if something went wrong in the middle 70 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: of it. You don't have to stop and fix everything 71 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: to continue. Um. It really wasn't an issue. You know, 72 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: it's very few people were going to take that kind 73 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: of time and effort to copy someone else's work. That's right. 74 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: But now let's let's move ahead and go toward well, 75 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, we we could even talk about things like 76 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: the cassette hate business and how that was a big issue, 77 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: as as was VHS. UM. Anything that allowed a customer 78 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: to to put something that was uh published in one 79 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: medium and then transferred to another medium was met with 80 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: a great amount of resistance in the various entertainment industries. 81 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: That's right. Um. As a matter of fact, if if 82 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: you really think about it, it's the advent of electronic 83 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: technology that would allow you to copy something that really 84 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: made it an issue. There's there's a mention of it 85 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: in the Constitution, I believe, a very very simple mention 86 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: of copyright, and it's it's a very vague sense and 87 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: the thing is they didn't have to worry about it. 88 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: But then in the twentieth century, not only do you 89 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: have things like cassette tapes and VCRs, you've got uh, 90 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: photo copiers, you've got facsimile machines, and suddenly, uh, you know, 91 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: Congress is having to deal with a number of different 92 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: pieces of legislation, uh, coming from different companies going hey, 93 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: wait a minute, people are making lots and lots of 94 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: copies of our work, and you know, hey, we did 95 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: a lot of work on this thing. We don't want 96 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: people just running off with it. So you know, you 97 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: have to write some laws to protect that. But the 98 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: thing is, even though there are laws in place, as 99 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: someone has said to me on more than one occasion, 100 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: it's only illegal if you get caught, right. So the 101 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: thing is, you've got all this technology, but if you 102 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: never get caught doing it, you can still duplicate it 103 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: at will. Yeah. And on top of that, beside the 104 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: fact that it had suddenly become easy to start making copies, 105 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: or at least relatively easy to make copies of material 106 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: that did not belong to you, uh, there's also the 107 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: concept of fair use, which all which clouds things up considerably. Well, 108 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: it's cloudy in and of itself. Right, fair use itself 109 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: is not is not specifically defined. Is it is vague 110 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: on purpose and it ends up being an issue that 111 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: ends up that that's decided on a case by case basis. 112 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: But in general, things that are considered fair use or 113 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: if you are taking some material in order to comment 114 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: upon it, to to provide some sort of insightful commentary 115 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: that is outside the scope of the original material, then 116 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: you could present some of that original material, although the 117 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: definition of how much you can present is not Again, 118 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: that's not really defined. So is it all right to 119 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: to take a paragraph out of a previously published work 120 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: and then comment on it? Maybe? What about twenty pages? 121 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: Well maybe not. The problem is that it's not very 122 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: well defined. If you if you took a line from 123 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: a High Coup, that's a third of it essentially, Well 124 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: no that but that is the point it really, It 125 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: really does depend on how much of the material you're 126 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: taking from it. If you're taking it from say the Odyssey, 127 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: well that isn't in copyright, but it's something that size 128 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: um and you're taking two pages of it, Well, that's 129 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: all things considered, that's a pretty small amount of it. 130 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: Another thing that is important to consider is how transformative 131 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: it is well. And another issue of fair use is 132 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: not just if you are transforming something or if you 133 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: are commenting upon something. It's also the idea of being 134 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: able to create a backup copy of something for your 135 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: own use. Now, this is another part that comes into 136 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: play with digital rights management in just a little bit. 137 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: So the the idea here is that if you were 138 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: to uh to purchase something like let's say you back 139 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: in the seventies you bought a vinyl record and then 140 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, in the eighties you've got some cassettes and 141 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: you think, oh, you know what, I'm gonna make a 142 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: copy of that vinyl record on cassette for my own 143 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: use to archives. So if anything does happen to that record, 144 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: I still have the music. I don't have to go 145 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: and purchase it again. That's okay, Okay, you can do that. 146 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: You can actually make a backup copy of something in 147 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: order to if the only purposes, so that you can 148 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: have it in case something happens to the original. Uh, 149 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, you can't go and distribute it. You know, 150 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: it's not supposed You're not supposed to do something like 151 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: transfer that record to cassette tape and then start selling 152 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: those cassette tapes out of the trunk of your car. Um, 153 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: that would not be covered under fair use, and you 154 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: could be prosecuted for a copyright violation under those rules. 155 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: But the digital rights management manages to circumvent the whole 156 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: notion of fair use. So let's let's kind of sort 157 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: a segue into digital rights management now. Before when we're 158 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: talking about cassettes and tapes and that kind of thing. Um, 159 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: there's still a level of effort that you needed to 160 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: put forth in order to really make a copy. When 161 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: we get into the digital realm, that effort is reduced dramatically. 162 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: In some cases, all you have to do is click 163 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: a couple of buttons on your computer and you've just 164 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: made a copy of a file. And that's all you 165 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: needed to do. Uh, there's no effort really there. And 166 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: because you're not taking a physical uh format, you're not 167 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: taking like a record or a disc or whatever. You're 168 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: just taking a digital file. It doesn't even feel like 169 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: stealing because you're not not taking a physical object. You're 170 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: not you know, you can't you can't compare it to 171 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: say shoplifting because if I go into a music store 172 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: and I shoplift and I steal a CD, not only 173 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,599 Speaker 1: have I taken something that doesn't belong to me and 174 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: I haven't paid for it, but the shopkeeper can no 175 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: longer sell that individual CD. Clearly right, because it's not 176 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: no longer in the shops possession. For the shopkeeper keeper 177 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: has uh spent the money on buying that item, but 178 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: will not be compensated for that because it is no 179 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: longer in the shopkeepers possession. Right now, with digital copies, 180 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: you can sell a digital copy copy rather without any 181 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: sort of physical medium at all. So if I were 182 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: to copy something, Let's say that Chris is Uh Chris's 183 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: band has got their album out in a digital format, 184 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: and I decide I want to listen to that, but 185 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: I also decide that I don't want to pay for it, 186 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: and I go and I copy that digital format. Well, 187 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: you could argue, well, you know, but Chris, Chris didn't 188 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: lose anything. He can still sell that digital copy to 189 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: whomever wants it. It's not like I took the only 190 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: instance of that I made a copy of it. However, 191 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: I have denied him that that sale, So there is 192 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: still an element of theft here. Now, this is what 193 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: kind of pushed various entertainment industry companies into backing the 194 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: whole idea of digital rights management. They wanted a way 195 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: to control their product so that people could not easily 196 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: make copies and distribute them, and beyond that, they even 197 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: wanted to kind of control how you experience that particular product, right, 198 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: and a copy protection was the very first version of 199 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: digital rights management because it was, in essence, the the 200 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: root of what they wanted to accomplish by by doing that. Um. Now, 201 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: the thing is, um, there have been a variety of 202 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: different ways of doing a copy protection. Uh. And I'm 203 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: going to mention one of Jonathan's favorite words. Um. Some 204 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: of the earliest that I encountered was, you know, I 205 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: would buy a copy of a program from my Amiga 206 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: and I would you know, load it on on the 207 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: computer and it would say you need to insert your dongle. 208 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: And this was a little piece of hardware that plugged 209 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: into one of the ports on the side of the machine. 210 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: And if you didn't have the dongle attached to the 211 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: side of the machine and the software could not detect 212 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: it was there, Basically, the program would not run a 213 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: very effective piece of copy protection, I'd say, but kind 214 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: of been practical if you happen to lose that little 215 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: dongle right right, or if something were to happen to 216 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: the port, for example, exactly if if the port goes dead, 217 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: then then you have to have your computer fixed before 218 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: you can run that programming. Right. And then you start thinking, well, 219 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: now you've created a copy protection that is dependent upon 220 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: a couple of different factors, some of which are beyond 221 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: my control necessary possibly beyond my control at any rate. Um, 222 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: but I've paid money to access this. So this is 223 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: the key to the people who opposed Digital rights management. 224 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: That's that's the key to their argument is that DRM, 225 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: the copy protection element of DRM, really hurts the the 226 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: legitimate consumer more than it hurts the prospective pirate. And 227 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: the idea that, you know, the person who actually buys 228 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: the product ends up having his or her experience impacted 229 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: by this DRM, and the people who want to steal 230 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: the content will find a way to steal it no 231 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: matter what kind of block you put there. Um. Really, 232 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: the whole purpose of the block being there, you could argue, 233 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: is not to to prevent someone from stealing, but to 234 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: provide the legal basis to pursue that person in court 235 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: once they do find a way to get around it. 236 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: You have a point, Yeah, it's kind of it's it's 237 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: it's interesting because when you think about it, drm is 238 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: it's like, Um, it's like you put a a lock 239 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: on your door, but you put a lock that's not 240 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: impossible to It's not impossible to pick that lock, right, Um. 241 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: And the reason you put the lock on the door 242 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: is not in order to make sure no one can 243 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: ever get in. It's to make sure that anyone who 244 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: does get in who doesn't have a key can be prosecuted. 245 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: And and that's kind of uh. But then you're also 246 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: saying that anyone who legitimately has a reason to come 247 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: into the house always has to have that key with 248 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: them because the door is never going to be unlocked. 249 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: So if that person loses the key, that's kind of tough. 250 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: They're gonna have to go and buy another key. Uh. 251 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: Kind of a roundabout way of getting at this. But 252 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: another another early version of copy protection would require that 253 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: you have, uh. The idea being that if you purchase 254 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: a game, for example of a computer game. Uh, the 255 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: idea of if you actually legitimately purchase it, you would 256 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: have the game, and you would have whatever documentation came 257 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: with the game. Yes, So a lot of these games 258 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: would have a section where they would ask you a 259 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: question that would be answered within the documentation. Yes, turn 260 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: two page seventeen and tell us what the third word 261 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: is in the second paragraph. And I even had some 262 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: of these manuals printed on dark blue paper, the idea 263 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: of course being that you would not be able to 264 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: uh photocopy it. It would all just come out as 265 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: a black sheet if you tried to photocopy these UM 266 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: these pages. Now, people got around that too, because there's 267 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: only so many questions you would be able to create 268 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: to for this copy protection. It's not like the entire 269 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: manual would be in the game UM copy protection, So 270 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: once people figured out what the questions were, they would 271 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: just circulate that, so you would still be able to 272 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: get around the game UM. There are also other physical 273 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: forms of copy protection where uh by physically changing the 274 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: disc and this is back in the five and a 275 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: quarter inch floppy desk days. By physically changing that disk, 276 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: you could make it hard to make a copy Like that, 277 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: that function would not be available, but you could get 278 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: around that too, if you knew how. And that's really 279 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: another issue with the The whole DRM is just the 280 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: idea that if you really want to get around DRM, 281 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: you can find a way to get around it. So 282 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: really the only people who get affected are the average 283 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: consumers who don't know better. Yeah, the manual version that 284 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: you were speaking of just a moment ago is the 285 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: kind of thing that would discourage probably the casual uh 286 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: software duplicator. You know, um Steve down the street. He 287 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: wants to to, uh make a copy for his buddy. 288 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: He's like, oh, man, well you know I can last 289 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: name is in jobs or was ni act. I just 290 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: wanted to pick something of the Bob. I usually say Bob, 291 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: but it just makes me think of Microsoft Bob. Um. Yeah, 292 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: that's that's gonna get his emails just to mention of 293 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: Microsoft Bob. Anyhow, we should do a podcast on that. 294 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: Um it'll be like two minutes long. Um anyhow, Now, 295 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: the uh, the whole thing is that that's the kind 296 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: of thing that would discourage probably the casual, the more 297 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: casual UM person from duplicating the software. But it eventually 298 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: involved to the point where it actually had a layer 299 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: of software encryption on it and of course people were 300 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: cracking that. As Jonathan said, you know, people really wanted 301 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: to get around it. They could do that. Um, that's 302 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: what we did our podcast on usenet. The wearer's channels 303 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: are basically, uh, software that has been cracked, whether the 304 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: copy protection has been removed or disabled on it. Um. 305 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: And uh you know that that's a little bit different 306 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: because once that's disabled, you can actually just generally use it. 307 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: Of course, sometimes disabling the copy protection will damage the 308 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: software in the process. UM. More modern efforts have gone 309 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: to using the software key. Like if you, for example, 310 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: bought a copy of Microsoft Windows, it's got um I 311 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: think a sixteen digit or is it longer than that? 312 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: Now it's longer than that now, Uh, like an encryption 313 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: key that comes along with it. Once you plug that 314 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: in and the software is registered online, no one else 315 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: is going to be able to use that key on 316 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: another computer. So you know, if you say, bought a 317 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: copy of Windows, you use the key and you gave 318 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: it to a friend down the street, Um, he or 319 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: she is going to have to find another legitimate t 320 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: which is generated by an algorithm. So if you just 321 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: make up letters and numbers, it's not gonna work. Probably 322 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: not gonna work. Well, the odds of it working are 323 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: at least astronomical, at least immediately. Yeah, I spent sixteen 324 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: hours trying to anyway. Um So, but that that actually 325 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: comes into uh into conflict with another right that is 326 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: legitimately yours, which is the right of first sale. Right. 327 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: You know, the right of first sale says that if 328 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: you purchase something, you have the right to sell that again, 329 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: uh further down the road, because that property is yours. 330 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: You have purchased it from someone, but it belongs to you, 331 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: so then you can dispose of it as you see fit. 332 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: So for example, if you buy a car and you've 333 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: paid for the car, the car is completely paid off, 334 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: it's well within your rights to sell that car to 335 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: whomever you like. You or game stores right use video 336 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: game stores another good example. So problem about d r 337 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: M is that it can get it can interfere with 338 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: your right to sell something that you've purchased. For example, 339 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: if I purchase a an MP three from from some 340 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: store that has DRM attached to that MP three, how 341 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: do I sell Let's let's say that I no longer 342 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: like that song and I want to try and recapture 343 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: some of the money I spent on that song. I 344 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: would like to sell that song to my buddy who 345 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: really likes that one and hasn't purchased it yet, and 346 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, you know what, I'll sell it for 347 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: fifty cents. I bought it for a dollar, even though 348 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: there's no real depreciation in digital content the way there 349 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: is in physical content. But I can't really do that, 350 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: and I can see why it doesn't make sense from 351 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: in a digital perspective. And the main reason for that 352 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: is again, digitally, we can make copies of stuff, So 353 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: I can make a copy of a song that I own, 354 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: sell the copy, I still have the original and I'm 355 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: making money, and I can undercut the the legitimate copyright holder. 356 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: So if Amazon on, for example, is selling a song 357 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: at at a dollar twenty nine, and I buy a 358 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: purchase copy that song, or I buy that song for 359 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: a dollar twenty nine, but I start selling it for 360 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: fifty cents, you know, it doesn't take long for me 361 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: to recapture my costs and that I'm undercutting Amazon, and 362 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: then Amazon is not making money off that song. And 363 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: you can see where you can see where the foundation 364 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: is for DRM for the copy protection element of DRM 365 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: right now. The problem is that the implementation of DRM 366 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: sometimes goes a little too far. Did you want to 367 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 1: talk about Sony specifically? I do, But I was going 368 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: to mention one other thing that's missing from this transaction 369 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: going on that you were mentioning. Sure, and that's trust. 370 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: Let's say Jonathan wants to sell his MP three to me, 371 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: and I'm willing to pay him the fifty cents for it, 372 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: and we're going to do everything completely above board. Jonathan says, 373 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to listen to this MP three anymore. 374 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: As soon as I send you the copy, I'm deleting 375 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: it from my computer. Technically, that would be essentially like 376 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: selling me a copy of a used book. He no 377 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: longer has that book. He's sold it to me, and 378 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: I've given him whatever he wants for it, and that 379 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: would be the right for sale. What what the producers 380 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: here are doing, the publishers of music or movies or 381 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: what software whatever? Um, they don't trust us to do that. 382 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm sure in a lot of cases 383 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: that probably is well founded. UM, Because honestly, Jonathan could say, oh, 384 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm tired of this MP three here, Chris, 385 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: you can have it for fifty cents, and I pay 386 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: him fifty cents, he sends me a copy of it, 387 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: and what if he doesn't deleted from his machine, then 388 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: we're doing exactly what they're afraid that we're doing. Now 389 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: we have duplicated the program and he has charged any 390 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: money for it, So he is making money off of 391 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: something that was somebody else's and he kept his original copy. 392 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: So they don't They don't trust people. And like I said, 393 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: some people are going to do that, some people are not. 394 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: So there there's an element of trust here. They don't 395 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: trust people to do this, which is why we're still 396 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: relying on copy protection. But as you pointed out, some people, 397 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: like Sony did a few years ago, have taken it 398 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: to an extreme right. Why why don't you tell us 399 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: a little bit about what Sony did? Well? UH, Basically, 400 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: back in I guess around two thousand five or so, 401 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: Sony BMG Music Entertainment UH sold some different UH music 402 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: CDs by a few different artists, UM and UH. As 403 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: soon as you put the CD in a computer, what 404 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: it would do is be to install what's called a 405 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: root kit on the computer. And basically it's a It 406 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: was a piece of software that was running underneath the surface. 407 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: It's not like you said, it said, Hey, hold on 408 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: a second, I'm installing a program on your machine. You 409 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't know was being installed. You wouldn't know it was 410 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: running the average person speaking. I mean, obviously someone discovered it. 411 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: But what was going on was they were installing this 412 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: root kid in there, and the point of it was 413 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: to uh manage copy protection. They wanted to make sure 414 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: that you weren't going to duplicate that CD and give 415 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: it to, you know, the music to someone else. The 416 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: problem is the root kit provide quite a bit of 417 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: access to computers and uh and basically was a back 418 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: door to hackers getting access to your system. And again, 419 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: the average person is not going to know that software 420 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: is on there, and they got caught. Yea, So Sony, 421 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: what what Sony did was went well beyond just ensuring 422 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: that this music wasn't going to be distributed illegally. What 423 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: Sony did was allowed for a remote access to your machine. Um. 424 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: And the root of all of this the root kit, 425 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: But the root of it all was that Sony did 426 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: not trust its customers. And the other thing that that 427 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: gets people upset is not just that that these companies 428 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: aren't trusting their their customers, but that um that it's 429 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: a it's a relatively small percentage of people among all 430 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: customers who actually engage in illegal behavior, but everyone gets 431 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: affected by it, that's right, So every one is being 432 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: punished for the the behavior of a small percentage of users. 433 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: And digital rights management can go beyond just preventing you 434 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: from making copies. For example, um, for video games or 435 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: computer games, there might be protection there where you can 436 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: install that game on a limited number of systems before 437 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: it will not let you install it again. Well, again 438 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: we're getting to the point of this this. You know 439 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: they're limiting how you can use this this uh this product. 440 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: And again you can kind of understand why. You know, 441 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: they don't want you to go and install it on 442 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: all of your friends computers so that everyone has a 443 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: copy of the game without buying it. But on the 444 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: flip side, if you are someone who updates his or 445 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: a computer on a regular basis, before long, you can 446 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: no longer play that game even though you purchased it. 447 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: Um Like, if you got rid of those computers, then 448 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: you that's it. That game is useless to you. You 449 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: cannot install it on your current system. And so this 450 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: this opens up lots and lots of wars for people 451 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: to come in and say that DRM is really not fair. 452 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: Um I mentioned before the idea of fair use and 453 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: making a backup copy. Here's another big example of where 454 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: DRM has got people upset. So there's the the digital 455 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: see see if I get this right's d m c A, 456 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: Digital Management Copyright Act Digital Millennium Millennium Copyright Act. Yes, 457 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: thank you. I knew I was going to mess up 458 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 1: the m the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which was past. Yes, 459 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: I remember the year. I just can't remember what the 460 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: darn thing is called. Um So d m c A. 461 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: The the whole idea of this was to provide companies 462 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: the level of protection they wanted, so that if anyone 463 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: were to try and circumvent UH copyright protection, they could 464 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: be punished two extreme extents. I don't think that's unfair 465 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: to say that they could, because I think you could 466 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: be uh fined up to a hundred and fifty thousand 467 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: dollars per incident of copyright infringement, right, so, which for 468 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: the average person is going to be pretty uh pretty severe. Well, yeah, 469 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: hundred for anyone. I don't care who you are. Bill 470 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: Gates would not say, like a hundred fifty ah, that's 471 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: a lot of money. So even if you can afford it, 472 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you want to know. But at 473 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: any rate, So one of the things about DRM is 474 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: that while it's still legal for you to create a 475 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: backup copy of whatever it is you've purchased in order 476 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: for you to to have it in case something happens 477 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: to the original, it is not legal for you to 478 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: circumvent any kind of digital rights management right copyright protection. So, 479 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: in other words, if you purchase a DVD, and even 480 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: if you have the the technology to make a copy 481 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: of that DVD, you can't make legally a backup copy 482 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: of that device because it would require you to circumvent 483 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: the d R m R. So your fair use rights 484 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: are trumped by the right of the copyright holder. UM. 485 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: In fact, it's illegal to even create a device that 486 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: can circumvent the DRM right. It's it's against the law. 487 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: So you even if you tried to create a code 488 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: or whatever in order for you to make your legitimate 489 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: backup file, UM, just making that code, even if you've 490 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: never run the code, even if you've never actually used 491 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: it to break DRM. Just creating it is against the law. Yeah, 492 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: the Real Networks, the company Real Networks sort of ran 493 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: into that problem with Real DVD, which was its DVD 494 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: copying software. And basically they've said, sure, you'd like to 495 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: make copies to run on your portable media players that 496 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, like, for example, an iPad they didn't specifically 497 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: mention that, or uh, an iPhone or an Android powered device. 498 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: You'd like to make a copy of your movies, Sure, 499 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: we have software for that will help you do that, 500 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,479 Speaker 1: and then you can make a backup copy or you 501 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: can watch copies of the stuff you bought. And uh, 502 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: Hollywood essentially brought suit against Real Networks and said, uh no, 503 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: this violates the d m c A, and the courts 504 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: essentially upheld that agreed with them, and there is no 505 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: Real DVD for sale. Um. But you know, it looks 506 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: pretty promising as far as as those programs go. But 507 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, essentially the level of trust would have been 508 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: the issue there. You know, I've had trusted people to 509 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: do that. And now that there's that legislation. UM. It's 510 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: not just here in the United States either, Canada's Bill 511 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: C thirty two. UM, basically has included that same provision 512 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: that you if you are trying to circumvent copyright protection 513 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: in order to make your legitimate backup copy, that you 514 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: may not do that. So as long as they don't 515 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: put copyright protection on their products, then you can make 516 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: a backup copy. But no one's going to not but 517 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: copyright protection on their products, so you're kind of it's 518 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: almost like your right to make a backup copy doesn't 519 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: exist at all. Might as well be it's effectively you 520 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: can't make that backup copy legally. Yeah, you know, I 521 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: I should. We should wrap this up pretty soon here, 522 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, I wanted to ask you if 523 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: you remembered another name from our copy protection past. Do 524 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: you remember a Place for Sure? No, I do not. 525 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: Microsoft had was was selling music for a while, and 526 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: uh use the Place for Sure format, And um, the 527 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: Place for Sure format was sort of like Apple's uh 528 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: you know it's It had a layer of information encoded 529 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: into the file that said, you know, oh, yes, you 530 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 1: are indeed Jonathan Strickland the person that bought this file. 531 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: Listen to it as many times as you like. Um. Well, 532 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 1: that was fine until Microsoft decided to eliminate the service, 533 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: and then there was no longer anything to validate that DRM. 534 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: So anybody who bought files with the place for sure 535 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: DRM embedded in it. When Microsoft decided to abandon that 536 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: line of revenue, those people, you know, they said, Microsoft said, 537 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: you only have a certain amount of time to back 538 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: these up, and then you could still only listen to 539 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: them in limited circumstances. And once, you know, after that 540 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: those machines die, that's it. You won't be able to 541 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,959 Speaker 1: access those files anymore. And that's not the that's not 542 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: the same. Only one that's ever done that, you know, yeah, 543 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: who had the same problem. And well, i'll close on this. 544 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: I'll mention one other example, the one that I think 545 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: is just absolutely insane is UBI Soft with their their 546 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: software where the only way you could play the game, 547 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: and it was a single person shooter. Um, so you're 548 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: playing by yourself on your computer. The only way you 549 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: could play is if your computer was also hooked up 550 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: to the Internet to connect to their DRM servers to 551 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: to make sure that the copy of the game you 552 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 1: were playing was valid, which meant that if you lost 553 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: your Internet connection for any reason, you could not play 554 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: the game, even though it was not a multiplayer game. 555 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: It wasn't an online game. The only reason you have 556 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: to be online was just to make sure that you 557 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: hadn't copied the game exactly, and that I think shows 558 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: the true that's probably not even the furthest extent. We're 559 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: gonna see DRM go too. And I'm not even saying 560 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: that all DRM is bad. I'm just saying that the 561 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: implementations that we've seen so far have been shortsighted and 562 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: again punish the average customer. They're not the pirate, the draconian. 563 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: Draconian isn't a good word for it. Yeah, it's just, 564 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, they want to get paid, and that's okay. 565 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: You know, it's just that they do restrict people who 566 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: are legitimately using uh the whatever it is for their 567 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: you know, they're illegal within their legal rights. That's true. Again, 568 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: it's all about rights and what rights you have as 569 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: a consumer as well. And you have the right to 570 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: write us, yes if you'd like to. Our email addresses 571 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: tech stuff at how stuff works dot com. Also remember 572 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: we have a Twitter feed and a Facebook feed. You 573 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: can find both of those if you search for tech 574 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: stuff hsw on respectively Twitter and Facebook. We look forward 575 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: to hearing from you, and we will talk to you 576 00:30:55,120 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: again really soon. 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