Speaker 1: What up y'allways started on season five on the East Coast,
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Speaker 1: for this one, Jack, This is special man. Over five
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Speaker 2: Releasing October eighth is the All the Smoke Coffee table Book.
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Speaker 1: the link in our bio. Jack Good first day word
Speaker 1: pump Gala. Then we had a surprise of a lifetime
Speaker 1: b D. White down trolling the lobby, found the Big Old?
Speaker 2: How do you find just how do you find the
Speaker 2: big right? How do you find the Big Old? Just
Speaker 2: wandering around?
Speaker 1: And how do you get him upstairs to the room
Speaker 1: is the question he had.
Speaker 2: Look, oh, it looked great.
Speaker 1: You look great for like eighty five. But the fact
Speaker 1: he came in, like you know me, I got bad eyes.
Speaker 1: I had a double and triple take while we were
Speaker 1: interviewing Tim. So I mean the fact he came in.
Speaker 1: We stopped the whole show. And that's my first time
Speaker 1: ever meeting him.
Speaker 3: We can't be super fans of Russell Westbrook and not
Speaker 3: od when big O walking Thom come on now, Big Old.
Speaker 1: But it was great to be able to first of all,
Speaker 1: have him come in. I want to do the show
Speaker 1: sit pretty much to a whole Tim Hardaway episode and
Speaker 1: then bless us with his just knowledge. And I feel
Speaker 1: like it took him a little while, probably maybe fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes to open up.
Speaker 2: If it wasn't a business man, he could have stayed
Speaker 2: another hour.
Speaker 1: And then I feel like if we had more time,
Speaker 1: I think he was ready midway through the interview to
Speaker 1: just talk about his whole entire life in fact, day
Speaker 1: by day fact. So that was crazy. The one thing
Speaker 1: I regret, bro is I didn't talk to him about Kareem. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know, that's shit. We missed on that one.
Speaker 1: And you know me how you don't normals like to
Speaker 1: be able to study the slides of that ship was
Speaker 1: gonna fly.
Speaker 2: We did good. That's what Dylan Julyani. Everyone put the
Speaker 2: ship together like this.
Speaker 1: Why we were doing the Tim Hardaway interview to have
Speaker 1: the legendary Oscar Robertson sit down man and first of all,
Speaker 1: watch the show. He didn't come on our show. That's
Speaker 1: gotta be up there, man. That's fucking this material wasn't expected.
Speaker 2: Definitely a blessing. Something we'll hold on to the shore. Definitely, Man, We.
Speaker 4: Hope you guys enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, welcome back all the smoke. L A man
Speaker 1: a special one right here. Shout out to our man,
Speaker 1: Dana pump Man. He goes above and beyond all this is.
Speaker 2: This, goes in the goat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll go up there, up there, man, Today
Speaker 1: we have twelve time All Star, eleven time All NBA,
Speaker 1: first player in NBA history to average triple double League
Speaker 1: me p NBA Champ. Welcome to the show, Oscar Robbinson.
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you, thank you, good to see you.
Speaker 1: I was flustered. He walked in the room in the
Speaker 1: tim hard and I'm like, show stops. I rubbed my eyes.
Speaker 1: I'm like him, man, it's what is life like?
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 5: These days? Get old and we're out fashion?
Speaker 1: Yeah though, thanks fine, you know jo John Orlando nice
Speaker 1: and warm out there, very warm. Yeah, a few storms,
Speaker 1: but you know, yeah, try to get around those. Everything
Speaker 1: you accomplished for this game, that the road you for
Speaker 1: this game. When you see that the NBA has now
Speaker 1: just recently signed a seventy five billion dollar TV contract,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts from the days you were playing
Speaker 1: to where the game is today.
Speaker 5: I got a lot of thoughts, but the most important
Speaker 5: thought that I have is I'm happy for the players.
Speaker 5: I'm happy that those guys are making money because when
Speaker 5: I grew up, you know, black people didn't make that
Speaker 5: kind of money right where you couldn't get jobs in
Speaker 5: the corporate America. But now they don't have to worry
Speaker 5: about that. Some guys will have a situation set up,
Speaker 5: they'll make money where their families will never have to suffer.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I grew up in the ghetto,
Speaker 5: didn't have anything at all, played ball all the time,
Speaker 5: went to school, church.
Speaker 2: That was it.
Speaker 1: Where did your passion for the game come from?
Speaker 5: In nineteen fifty one, I believe my older brother Bailey
Speaker 5: had a shot against Anderson High School and got them
Speaker 5: into the first championship for an all black team from
Speaker 5: in Apisentana. And from that point on, man, I was
Speaker 5: just I was driven.
Speaker 1: Your lawsuit against the NBA in the seventies. Did that
Speaker 1: lawsuit in some way, shape or form kind of create
Speaker 1: the players union?
Speaker 5: No, it defined the players. You know, we had been
Speaker 5: doing a lot of things up to that point. I
Speaker 5: mean I was there for about nine years and been
Speaker 5: trying to get certain things done, mail moneys which was
Speaker 5: eight dollars a day, the hotels, air traveling, all these things,
Speaker 5: and so finally we got to go to court. But
Speaker 5: we went to court originally to be to stop the
Speaker 5: ABA from joining the NBA. That's what it was all about.
Speaker 5: And then these other things came about about players' rights
Speaker 5: and whether or not if you had a contract and
Speaker 5: you want you didn't have, you didn't have no other
Speaker 5: connection to a team, could you go somewhere else? The
Speaker 5: NBA said you couldn't. They said they had to pet
Speaker 5: your rights to you forever, which was not true.
Speaker 1: What are some of the things as a black star
Speaker 1: that we take for granted, but you struggled with early
Speaker 1: on in your career.
Speaker 5: I often said this lot to a lot of people.
Speaker 5: The draft hurt me. I'll tell you why. Because I
Speaker 5: went to a team that was in disarray, you know,
Speaker 5: and here, hell, I'm coming out of school. I was
Speaker 5: playing of the year, of course, but I had to
Speaker 5: carry them, you know. I had to sacrifice my game
Speaker 5: to make it taken, to make us a unit, and
Speaker 5: and and it's a it's a And then after I
Speaker 5: got there, the press can be very difficult for you
Speaker 5: when you're a start, especially in certain areas of the
Speaker 5: country back then, they want you to win and want
Speaker 5: you to do well, but they don't want you to
Speaker 5: do too well because they don't want to write about that.
Speaker 5: The first year I was there, I was thirty some
Speaker 5: points a game, and they didn't hard to mention it.
Speaker 5: They mentioned other guys getting fifteen points and this and
Speaker 5: that and what not, and you know, I didn't think
Speaker 5: that much about it. A lot of these think that
Speaker 5: I'm telling you about, I didn't think about them until
Speaker 5: I got out of basketball. To be honest, it was
Speaker 5: I was there. I was committed to play with a
Speaker 5: team that we weren't that good as That's why I
Speaker 5: look at a lot of a lot of teams that
Speaker 5: when they played against the Celtics and they said, how
Speaker 5: did they win, I said, I think we had.
Speaker 2: Rback for that.
Speaker 5: Bed Hrback had had a good starting unit, but they
Speaker 5: had veterans on his bench all the time, and they
Speaker 5: came to play, you know, and you know, they were
Speaker 5: they were good. They ran the ball up and down
Speaker 5: the court, and I think a lot of guys, to
Speaker 5: be honest, were scared to play against the Celtics because
Speaker 5: we had some on our team, and I said, what
Speaker 5: the hell you scared of them for? I said, you know,
Speaker 5: they've dressed the where you are, said, you know, And
Speaker 5: when they tossed the ball up, that's when you got
Speaker 5: to go.
Speaker 1: Who were some of your favorite guys in your day
Speaker 1: to play against? Not necessarily teams, but individual players. Who
Speaker 1: did you enjoy matching up against.
Speaker 5: I enjoyed Will because I knew Will very well. And
Speaker 5: Wilt was big talker, you know, what he's going to
Speaker 5: do and whatnot. And but Will was putting on the
Speaker 5: show for people, you know, and Book caret the NBA
Speaker 5: for years. And I always said this that the year
Speaker 5: they went Philadelphia moved out to San Francisco and Syracuse
Speaker 5: came down to Philly. Well, there was fifty points a game,
Speaker 5: and that's people don't say anything about it. And you know,
Speaker 5: and my good friend Bill Russell won the MVP that year,
Speaker 5: who played great because they won the championship.
Speaker 2: But when you averaged fifty.
Speaker 6: Points, yeah, I mean, and I A was a triple bubble, right,
Speaker 6: you know, so, but I'd still say, well, Carr at
Speaker 6: the NBA that year, and you know, they don't ever
Speaker 6: say that much about it.
Speaker 1: Is it probably because we didn't get a chance to
Speaker 1: see it, or people who speak most now didn't get
Speaker 1: a chance to see it or really appreciate. But how great,
Speaker 1: How great was he? I mean obviously we see the numbers,
Speaker 1: but to see and play against it, and like you said,
Speaker 1: him being able to carry the entire league? How great
Speaker 1: was he? And could he have played in any error
Speaker 1: and dominated?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 5: I think he could have. What was a great athlete,
Speaker 5: could run track, high jump, volleyball player, talk playing his
Speaker 5: stuff all the time. But you know, he got it
Speaker 5: done on the court. I mean, you know one game
Speaker 5: they played in, you know, and these guys today talk
Speaker 5: about how great they are. Sure there's some great basketball players.
Speaker 5: Guy gets fifty rebounds, Well, I think Russell got forty
Speaker 5: eight that game. I mean, I mean, can you imagine
Speaker 5: one man getting fifty rebounds in the basketball game.
Speaker 1: It's incredible it is.
Speaker 5: And you know, and and the thing to think about
Speaker 5: it he played every minute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does what I'm saying. He played in every game.
Speaker 5: You see guys today, what is that they try to well,
Speaker 5: worry about the minutes and load Oh that's that's a
Speaker 5: load management. I mean, I think if you make it
Speaker 5: fifty million dollars a year.
Speaker 2: There's no load management.
Speaker 5: I think sometimes you're to the fans who come to
Speaker 5: see you play because because well you want to say
Speaker 5: so or not. The NBA owners and the players are
Speaker 5: in this thing together, right, they're not ending alone, right,
Speaker 5: And they said they got to understand that. We understood
Speaker 5: that with the with the with the players Association when
Speaker 5: I was there, we try to convince that. Finally, I
Speaker 5: think some of the owners who came into the league
Speaker 5: while I was still there understood that we were not
Speaker 5: fighting them, were to do something to better basketball right overall?
Speaker 1: Good?
Speaker 3: Is it true you learn how to shoot by using
Speaker 3: ten tennis balls and rags wrapped around with rubber bands.
Speaker 5: No, I had to fake balls and ten things. And
Speaker 5: now that that's when. That's when I first started playing.
Speaker 5: If so young had two older brothers, you know, they
Speaker 5: wouldn't let me going away with them.
Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, what's the age difference between you and your
Speaker 1: older brother?
Speaker 5: He was about five years older. And you know, I
Speaker 5: don't know if you have any older brothers now, but yeah,
Speaker 5: they don't want you. I don't want you to go anywhere.
Speaker 5: Person used to steal from me. My older brother I
Speaker 5: have an older brother. After forty two years, I just
Speaker 5: found out I got an older brother. So I was
Speaker 5: always the oldest brother and so just recently, so start
Speaker 5: out shooting in the trees and whatnot, and imaginations and whatnot.
Speaker 5: And like any young kid would say, all the time,
Speaker 5: thirty seconds, ten seconds ago, two seconds, you got the ball. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and you make it every.
Speaker 1: Time you play any other sports.
Speaker 5: Ran track played baseball. Had a baseball contract with the
Speaker 5: Cincinnati Rolls. I'm sorry, Cinscinating Reds. What am I saying?
Speaker 5: But I didn't want to take it because they had
Speaker 5: they had some great stars and and you know, I
Speaker 5: hate to say this. You know this comes up. You know,
Speaker 5: people don't want to hear a lot of this. But
Speaker 5: they were black, Veda Pinson, Frank Robinson was great man.
Speaker 5: They didn't they didn't appreciate.
Speaker 1: It at all. It's a terrible in baseball.
Speaker 3: I want to ask you, what's what's your opinion on
Speaker 3: athletes and activism. I was thrown in the George for
Speaker 3: a situation, and yeah, I saw great was able to
Speaker 3: be a big part of that.
Speaker 2: And I'm honored because I think that's the best thing
Speaker 2: I've done in my.
Speaker 3: Life's do something for for for our people. But what's
Speaker 3: your opinion on athletes and activism and how was it
Speaker 3: growing up in Indiana dealing with the KKK and all that.
Speaker 1: Growing up?
Speaker 5: Let's talk about Indiana first. I didn't see any white
Speaker 5: people at all when I played ball unless I played
Speaker 5: against him. In Indiana, one white person was Bob Collins,
Speaker 5: who was a writer who loved our team, and he
Speaker 5: wrote about it because he's writing about the facts. Other
Speaker 5: than that poorest could be mother than five, divorced, two
Speaker 5: older brothers. We had had little little guys on the street.
Speaker 5: But tell you everything you have to know. I really
Speaker 5: appreciate those guys. You know, sometimes they talk about GHET,
Speaker 5: old kids and whatnot and and all the bad things.
Speaker 5: These guys were great. They raised you. They tell you
Speaker 5: what they do about women, drugs and everything else, gaming
Speaker 5: and everything. So so I'm happy about that.
Speaker 2: But it's a.
Speaker 5: But you know, it's really interested when when you when
Speaker 5: you live through a lot of different things, whatnot, uh
Speaker 5: that you seek change and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 5: I think players today, with the media and and all,
Speaker 5: it's the socially outfits. You have to be careful sometimes,
Speaker 5: but that doesn't mean you you disregard your character and
Speaker 5: what you want to say about because I think they
Speaker 5: can be very helpful, helpful. I never forget uh. When
Speaker 5: the kid uh, I can't think of his name, he
Speaker 5: stepped still, sit on his knees. They didn't stand from
Speaker 5: the net anthem. And I won't tell you the coach's
Speaker 5: name that you'll figured out this. And this owner was
Speaker 5: very very upset about them, Jerry Jones, you know what, Bobby,
Speaker 5: more than anything, the rest of the Black pearers didn't
Speaker 5: support it.
Speaker 2: I couldn't.
Speaker 5: I could not understand that they didn't like the national
Speaker 5: anthem either, right, they should to be honest. I mean,
Speaker 5: I know the national anthem, but I never heard of
Speaker 5: the national anthem. When I was playing ball in college,
Speaker 5: they played well, we always.
Speaker 2: In the locker room, never heard it.
Speaker 5: The national anthem is great, I mean I learned came
Speaker 5: to appreciate it, especially when it was in the Olympics.
Speaker 5: We want to we want to go medal. Then you
Speaker 5: boy goes up, something goes through you. You know, you
Speaker 5: think about you think about your life. You know, where
Speaker 5: are you from and how you got there? You know,
Speaker 5: and the guys you're with. And that's what you think
Speaker 5: about those kinds of things.
Speaker 3: Also think about the words too, just as fall were
Speaker 3: still waiting on something.
Speaker 2: Well, that's true too.
Speaker 1: But what was that experience like, obviously a different time
Speaker 1: back then, when you're representing a country that didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: represent or love you at times, what was it like
Speaker 1: to be able to do that and win at the
Speaker 1: highest level.
Speaker 5: I think this was in nineteen sixty folks, so it
Speaker 5: goes back a few years. I was fortunate because I
Speaker 5: met I met Oli there, I met Wilman, Rudolph, Ray Norton,
Speaker 5: and Thompson was the high jumper jump first guy from
Speaker 5: the American to jump seven feet. It was. It was
Speaker 5: great experience for learning things about yourself, about life. I
Speaker 5: never I never been run that many people like that
Speaker 5: in my life. And you go to the Olympic village
Speaker 5: and you know everyone's there and you just socialize, you
Speaker 5: meeting people, but not you know, I mean, I knew
Speaker 5: Wilma read very well, Wilman, Rudolph was a good friend
Speaker 5: of mine. And then I got to meet Alan because
Speaker 5: I kept telling me to tell me the greatest man
Speaker 5: God and tell them tell me, tell me we can
Speaker 5: whoop anybody. Man that's oh, come on.
Speaker 1: I love it. You were co capping with Jerry West.
Speaker 1: We just lost rest in Peace.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Jerry was a good friend of mine. We met at
Speaker 5: the trials in Denver. He was kind of quiet at
Speaker 5: the time, but we got to talk to each other
Speaker 5: about different things. And and uh, the AU was very
Speaker 5: strong in those days, and they would always try to
Speaker 5: get the best team to play against us. You know,
Speaker 5: something's mighty funny about that. As we won the championship,
Speaker 5: I was sitting with sitting with pet Knell. Was that coach?
Speaker 5: He said, Oscar. He said, I got a difficult task tonight.
Speaker 5: I said, what is it, coach? He said, they don't
Speaker 5: want they don't want Weal Bellamy. I said why. He said,
Speaker 5: you don't know why. If they hadn't taken Ballot me,
Speaker 5: we have had two black guys on the team. This
Speaker 5: is a nineteen sixth of some great players planning man
Speaker 5: myself and Bob Boozer ball Me. We needed him to
Speaker 5: win the championship in Rome. We couldn't have won without him,
Speaker 5: couldn't have won it at all.
Speaker 1: They didn't want him, They didn't want two blacks.
Speaker 2: No here here again.
Speaker 5: I mean, and it's it's a I know, these things
Speaker 5: come up and people don't want to hear these things,
Speaker 5: but not because I had a great experience at the Olympics.
Speaker 5: I thought, I think that was that's the greatest sport
Speaker 5: event in the world for people to get together and
Speaker 5: and and try to iron out something that differences and whatnot.
Speaker 5: And when you run for a metal and once you
Speaker 5: get a metal, you know, just told total happiness. You know,
Speaker 5: you congratulate the people that that that's running against you,
Speaker 5: but they understead you're happy for them as well.
Speaker 1: Mental health is such a big thing and discussed today,
Speaker 1: but that's just recent. They just maybe the last five
Speaker 1: seven years. Mental health. I mean, with so much racial
Speaker 1: tension back then, although it was the norm, it had
Speaker 1: to affect you day to day. How did that make
Speaker 1: you feel? How were you able to focus on the
Speaker 1: task in hand? How did you get through all the
Speaker 1: stuff you you know, had to unfortunately go through.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 5: I went to the University of Cincinnati. I was the
Speaker 5: first black to play there, and I didn't realize it
Speaker 5: because I'd gone to Cincinnati and see Jackie Robinson play
Speaker 5: a lot, and I saw a lot of African American
Speaker 5: people sitting in the stands with not I said, man,
Speaker 5: this is a great town, great city. So anyway, when
Speaker 5: I go to school there, I didn't see any black people. Man,
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm going to class at nobody. So one
Speaker 5: day I told the coach I want to say, I
Speaker 5: want to have a meeting.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 5: So I made him eight o'clock in the morning. I said,
Speaker 5: what's going on? He told me the story is that
Speaker 5: they just don't like blacks at the school. I said,
Speaker 5: why don't you tell me this now before I got here?
Speaker 5: Before I got here, he said, didn't want to do
Speaker 5: that because he wanted me to come. But anyway, I
Speaker 5: mean or commitment, and so I was, so I stuck
Speaker 5: with it. You know, it wasn't always easy, right. I
Speaker 5: was sitting in my room one night, not that about
Speaker 5: all the other black guys in the same situation up here.
Speaker 5: Nobody cares, but for at least for me, I was
Speaker 5: a star player of the year that got some tension,
Speaker 5: you know. But I think about all those other players,
Speaker 5: you know, I really felt sorry for them.
Speaker 3: I think that's why I admire you so much. I mean,
Speaker 3: you got a lot of guys today with every with
Speaker 3: all the bonuses and pluses they have. They are not
Speaker 3: able to go out and not not even average triple double,
Speaker 3: but play to the level you play, and they're not
Speaker 3: really dealing with nothing.
Speaker 2: You was dealing with people threatening your.
Speaker 3: Life, betting your family's life, betting your job threat and
Speaker 3: you still went out there and played to be the
Speaker 3: person you are today. I admire that because you know
Speaker 3: a lot of people that that have everything in the world,
Speaker 3: they don't have the confidence to stand up for something
Speaker 3: that that doesn't have nothing, has nothing to do with them.
Speaker 1: You did it your whole career.
Speaker 3: So I admire that and still be able to be,
Speaker 3: you know, the person who has a basketball player with
Speaker 3: all that stuff.
Speaker 2: That just says a lot about who you are in life.
Speaker 5: You know, when you get older, you're realizing more and
Speaker 5: more there's so many things that bother you on a
Speaker 5: daily basis, Difficult things you got to go on, you
Speaker 5: can't stop. God has has an answer to everybody, and
Speaker 5: he's still in charge, so you can't worry about things.
Speaker 5: A lot of times, you know you're unforcunate that things
Speaker 5: happen in your life that that bother that bother you,
Speaker 5: really bother you some terrible things sometimes, but you got
Speaker 5: letter play out, but you got later playoffs just like
Speaker 5: and I never forget. There was one guy named Norman
Speaker 5: Allen who lived on our street, and he said he
Speaker 5: was talking one day about players being great. He said,
Speaker 5: remember one thing, when you're on the court, think about
Speaker 5: think about the game. And I also said, they can't
Speaker 5: play until they tossed the ball up. So I said,
Speaker 5: what do you mean by that? He said, always talk
Speaker 5: about this guy and that guy before the game doesn't
Speaker 5: mean anything. He's when they tossed the ball up. That's
Speaker 5: when you got to go and see whether you can
Speaker 5: get it done or not. But but uh, but but
Speaker 5: it just it just bothers me more than anything that
Speaker 5: you talked earlier about guys and social social activities whatnot.
Speaker 5: They got to be careful because they're involved with shoot deals,
Speaker 5: television deals, commercials, whatnot.
Speaker 2: I think they can be smart about it.
Speaker 1: There's a way to do it.
Speaker 5: You don't have to go out and curse somebody out
Speaker 5: and call them names and what not. But you know,
Speaker 5: but you can be smart about this, you know, and
Speaker 5: have statements that that are thoughtful.
Speaker 2: You know, conversations, yes, have the conversations.
Speaker 5: You know, because hopefully that's what the politicians do. But
Speaker 5: sometimes they don't. They don't do that. They get into
Speaker 5: a situation where they start calling each other names, which.
Speaker 3: Is not But that's when Matt says all the time.
Speaker 3: It's ways to disagree, but the respect has to remain
Speaker 3: the same.
Speaker 5: Yes, I agree with you, Yes it does.
Speaker 1: Indeed, nineteen fifty nine, the KKK sent you a telegram
Speaker 1: before a game. Do you remember. Do you remember?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 5: I do. We were playing to Plan in Addiction Classics.
Speaker 5: I knew nothing about the Dixie Classics. So I get
Speaker 5: a telegram. So if you go out here and play,
Speaker 5: they're gonna shoot me. So I gave it to the coach.
Speaker 5: But later on that day I get a knock on
Speaker 5: the door. Here's a white kid from Alabama, some Obama fraternity.
Speaker 5: You had to kind of get an autograph for me.
Speaker 5: What do you think I did? Autographed? For of course,
Speaker 5: we always the bigger people. I never forget that as
Speaker 5: long as I live, I mean, I mean to be honest,
Speaker 5: to be honest, man.
Speaker 2: I was born in Tennessee.
Speaker 5: I never really thought that much about the Klan to
Speaker 5: begin with me because where I lived, we had a
Speaker 5: lot of relatives. There were Bails, Tiers, and Robertson. So
Speaker 5: although the whites and blacks were separate, there was no
Speaker 5: going out hanging somebody and nothing being done about it,
Speaker 5: right right, So they protected themselves. But I never thought
Speaker 5: that much about it. Guys that threatened me. I mean,
Speaker 5: it wasn't the only time I was threatened by the way,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna tell you. But it didn't bother me. I mean,
Speaker 5: I just I didn't think anything about it, about being shot.
Speaker 5: I just didn't think that they was gonna do it.
Speaker 3: He has a movie coming out, a dot comount. He
Speaker 3: went through the same thing in high school. You want
Speaker 3: to talk about that, man.
Speaker 1: No, just the you know, KKK was a kid was
Speaker 1: harassing my sister called her a nigger spinning her hair.
Speaker 1: So she was two years younger than me in high school.
Speaker 1: So I did what a big brother supposed to do
Speaker 1: and beat the kid up and went back and tried
Speaker 1: to tell the school what happened. They didn't believe it,
Speaker 1: suspended me, and then the KKK tried to come burn
Speaker 1: down my high school noose with the mannequin and the
Speaker 1: tree die Nigger niggers everywhere, swastikas Niggers must die like
Speaker 1: put a hit out on me. I had to move.
Speaker 3: We've seen the screening of the documentary last week, and
Speaker 3: it's gonna be really good.
Speaker 1: A lot of people no, but it's I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: always really fascinated by it because I mean, obviously you
Speaker 1: faced all the adversity you faced, and then you know,
Speaker 1: this is nineteen ninety eight at the time, and it's
Speaker 1: just like it was still prevalent. And I tell people,
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, hate will always be there.
Speaker 1: Just as love is taught, hate is taught, and unfortunately
Speaker 1: there's just weird people out here that teach to hate
Speaker 1: and it's unfortunate. You're right.
Speaker 5: Thing that's really so overwhelming to me is that so
Speaker 5: many of white people who don't care about that, you know,
Speaker 5: but they don't do anything. You run ouse. These things
Speaker 5: happened in Indiana, and I think it might have been months.
Speaker 5: Indiana they hung up black guy who got him out
Speaker 5: of jail because he said he made some remarks about
Speaker 5: some white woman walking down the street. It went in
Speaker 5: jail and hunging, and you wonder that happened today they can't.
Speaker 3: It still is well in Lumberton, Texas, they're still hanging
Speaker 3: people in Mumbaton, Texas.
Speaker 1: No. Well, during the during the George Floyd, during the pandemic,
Speaker 1: member there were people allegedly black people were committing suicide
Speaker 1: by hanging themselves. But that was excuse my language, that
Speaker 1: was some bullshit, you know what I mean? That was
Speaker 1: that was some other things going on, which is which
Speaker 1: is unfortunate.
Speaker 5: Well, I think there needs to be some overall conversation
Speaker 5: from people, you know, like minded people.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but actually they don't have to be like
Speaker 1: minded because like minded people see things the same way.
Speaker 1: You need to have conversations with people who aren't like minded.
Speaker 1: I feel like with the same goals. What I'm saying, yeah, peace.
Speaker 5: I just feel that other than politicians, people don't want
Speaker 5: athletes to talk about socialitions.
Speaker 2: But they don't.
Speaker 5: They don't they don't want teachers to talk about so
Speaker 5: they don't want black people to talk about social istions whatnot.
Speaker 5: My person never said it to me about politics. The
Speaker 5: don't think I followed it. When I became eighteen, he
Speaker 5: said you gotta get register for the draft. I said,
Speaker 5: what are you talking about that?
Speaker 2: What draft? Not?
Speaker 1: The draft? Wanted no one, no one in.
Speaker 5: My school, every miss me anything to me about get
Speaker 5: the draft cards. But I had to go. I wouldn't
Speaker 5: I wouldn't got it done anyway.
Speaker 1: What was that he like though, Just to think that
Speaker 1: you possibly could be obviously dreams of playing basketball, but
Speaker 1: possibly having to go to war.
Speaker 5: I didn't really think that much about it, okay. I mean,
Speaker 5: you know, you know, like I said before, you know,
Speaker 5: when you live in a ghetto, man, you know there's
Speaker 5: so many things that happened. Hear about so many things
Speaker 5: and whatnot. Man, you know, it just rolls off.
Speaker 3: Your box and you enjoyed the bad time. Times are
Speaker 3: so hard that you learned how to enjoy everything.
Speaker 2: I thought a lot of people lived like that. We
Speaker 2: didn't know it was struggling then.
Speaker 1: I didn't know, you know what I'm saying. We didn't know.
Speaker 2: We were just living our life and we've seen how hard.
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't talk speak to you, but we've
Speaker 3: seen how I've seen how my grandmother, my grandfather, my
Speaker 3: mom has made a life for everybody. So that was
Speaker 3: everything to me. I didn't know we were struggling. I
Speaker 3: had everything to in my mind. You know, It's amazing.
Speaker 3: Grandfather he had a little farm to go down in
Speaker 3: the summer and two days, two days. He loved it
Speaker 3: when it raining and Sunday that's when he didn't work. Ever,
Speaker 3: they worked, you know.
Speaker 5: And it's a funny thing that that all the things
Speaker 5: you go through your life that I've gone through. I
Speaker 5: had to join the army on television halftime a basketball
Speaker 5: game against the Boston Celtics. It's just things that go
Speaker 5: to go through your life and what you have to
Speaker 5: do sometimes, you know. I mean, I wasn't going to
Speaker 5: join the army, but I was told if I didn't
Speaker 5: join they I was going to be drafted. So I
Speaker 5: joined the reserves.
Speaker 2: What year?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously with you being good friends with Ali
Speaker 1: in the years escaping me, obviously he went through that
Speaker 1: and and and and and chose, you know, the latter
Speaker 1: not to do it. But what was that like as
Speaker 1: him being a friend of yours and it kind of
Speaker 1: derailing a little bit of his career.
Speaker 5: They didn't want Alan into the military. Never even finished
Speaker 5: high school. You know, I don't know if they give
Speaker 5: you some tests sometimes you go through. I don't don't.
Speaker 5: I don't think he can passed it. They wanted Ali
Speaker 5: because they wanted him to influence other black kids. That's
Speaker 5: that's why they wanted all in army. They want they
Speaker 5: want to make him to make sure that all these
Speaker 5: other black kids that they were going to going to
Speaker 5: put in the military but didn't do the same thing.
Speaker 5: Because you know that that in the summertimes in some
Speaker 5: parts of the country. I think it was up east
Speaker 5: where there was a potato harvest. Those kids all got
Speaker 5: out of school to harvest potatoes. That's why you don't
Speaker 5: go to school in the summer. Yeah, that's let's start
Speaker 5: on the on the east and now you know, uh uh.
Speaker 5: But but but with Ali, now, they didn't really want
Speaker 5: him in army. He has been a disruption in m
Speaker 5: too much. You know, it's just it's pretty It's just
Speaker 5: he had too many following, you know, you know, and
Speaker 5: what and what what do we accomplished by that? But
Speaker 5: they want to take him to court to make an
Speaker 5: example out of it. I never forget Frank Robinson told
Speaker 5: me once, when you win, they don't they don't like it.
Speaker 2: But when you lose, you they blamed you.
Speaker 1: M it's a no win situation.
Speaker 5: Well it is so certainly be but but I think,
Speaker 5: as I said before, that it's the conversation with.
Speaker 1: Me, you know, you don't.
Speaker 5: You don't hear a lot of black athletes talk about.
Speaker 1: Politics, right, they're afraid too, Yeah, they are.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, I'm not gonna name any names,
Speaker 5: but some of the years, some of the biggest stars
Speaker 5: never never mentioned I don't think. I don't think. I
Speaker 5: don't think they mentioned Obama when he was running.
Speaker 1: You know, have you that Reggie get off about them?
Speaker 2: When Reggie been holding that in for a long time.
Speaker 2: At the baseball game, he was that.
Speaker 7: I would never wanted to do it, want to do
Speaker 7: it again. I walked into restaurants and they would point
Speaker 7: at me and said that you can't eat here. I
Speaker 7: would go to a hotel and they said I can't
Speaker 7: stay here. We went to Charlie Finley's country Club for
Speaker 7: a welcome home dinner and they pointed me out with
Speaker 7: the N word. He can't come in here. Finley march
Speaker 7: the whole team out. Finally they let me in there.
Speaker 7: He said, we're going to go to the diner and
Speaker 7: eat Hamburger's or go where we're wanted. Fortunately, I had
Speaker 7: a manager in Johnny McNamara that if I couldn't eat,
Speaker 7: if I couldn't thank you, if I couldn't eat in
Speaker 7: the place nobody would eat, We'd get food to travel.
Speaker 7: If I couldn't stay in a hotel, They'd drive to
Speaker 7: the next hotel and find a place where I could stay.
Speaker 7: Had it not been for Raleigh Fingers, Johnny McNamara, Dave Duncan,
Speaker 7: if Joe, and Sharon Rudy, I slept on their couch
Speaker 7: three four nights a week for about a two month
Speaker 7: and a half. Finally they were threatened that they would
Speaker 7: burn our apartment complex down unless I got out. I
Speaker 7: wouldn't wish it on anyone. The year I came here,
Speaker 7: Bo Connor was the sheriff the year before, and they
Speaker 7: took based by the League Baseball out of here because
Speaker 7: in nineteen sixty three the Clan four black girls children
Speaker 7: in eleven, twelve, fourteen years old at a church here
Speaker 7: and never got indicted. It was there from the Klan
Speaker 7: Life magazine did a story on them, like you were
Speaker 7: being honored. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. At the
Speaker 7: same time, had it not been for my white friends,
Speaker 7: had it not been for a white manager and Rudy Fingers,
Speaker 7: who Duncan and Lee Myers, I would have never made
Speaker 7: it I was too physically violent. I was ready to
Speaker 7: physically fight some I'd have got killed here because I'd
Speaker 7: have beat someone's ass, and they you just saw me
Speaker 7: in an oak tree somewhere.
Speaker 5: Well, they treated Reggie kind of bad in New York. Yeah,
Speaker 5: what was the manager's name was drunk. This guy was
Speaker 5: a drunk man. He shouldn't have been becaugin anybody. Basketball
Speaker 5: thing Reggie was to minis star young man, helped them
Speaker 5: win World reasons whatnot. They treated him like nothing. When
Speaker 5: I was a Cincinnati you know, doing the holidays, you
Speaker 5: know you're still there the practices, playing games. We had
Speaker 5: to go up to this restaurant it was, I don't
Speaker 5: know what kind of wrestlant it was to eat. I
Speaker 5: going with one of the guys on the team. And
Speaker 5: when I went in the door and I guess, hey,
Speaker 5: what are you doing in here? I said, what do
Speaker 5: you mean? He said, Uh, he said, I don't want
Speaker 5: you in my restaurant. I said, I supposed to eating
Speaker 5: here soon, You're not gonna eat in here. So anyway,
Speaker 5: I left. I go to a place in the black
Speaker 5: sector town where they had college green and they used
Speaker 5: the same difference to get everything out man. Also happened.
Speaker 5: The coach calls me up, man, what the hell are
Speaker 5: you doing? I said, what do you mean? He said,
Speaker 5: you haven't been you haven't been up to the resturande.
Speaker 5: I said, coach, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 5: I said, Man, don't want me to say any want
Speaker 5: blacks in this place. Years later this happened. This same
Speaker 5: guy who ran at the restaurant was dying, want me
Speaker 5: to come to sing you?
Speaker 1: Same guy, same Yeah you went some.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't know where he was. I might have
Speaker 2: gone nowhere.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, but I mean, I mean, I mean it happened.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: You know it's crazy. So you leave Cincinnati the all
Speaker 1: time leading score for college basketball until a pistol peek
Speaker 1: came around.
Speaker 2: Plus I everd fifteen rebounds.
Speaker 1: Again, about said my career. So where did your all work?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to talk. Actually we'll go there.
Speaker 1: So your year one thirty points ten and nine, year
Speaker 1: two thirty to thirty one, twelve and eleven, you're three
Speaker 1: twenty eight, ten and nine, you're four thirty one, eleven
Speaker 1: and ten thirty one twelve and nine year five. Normally
Speaker 1: we used to see kind of one sided. Where did
Speaker 1: the all around? Game come from and why did you
Speaker 1: embrace that and do it so well?
Speaker 5: Just come from playing ball against guys when I grew up.
Speaker 5: Not had a coach in high school that said if
Speaker 5: if you if you're inside, you got to got a center.
Speaker 5: You got to box them off the board. And we played.
Speaker 5: We had defensive drills all the time, man, I mean
Speaker 5: just just constantly running drills and helping out and talking
Speaker 5: on defense whatnot. And you just learned to play, you
Speaker 5: know as ah And really though, as it was said
Speaker 5: earlier on your show, there was no position basketball. He
Speaker 5: was a basketball playing basketball. You know, this is why
Speaker 5: it really. I had a team. I want to tell
Speaker 5: you the guy's name. We played in China. I tell him,
Speaker 5: I want you outside. I want you to run the offense.
Speaker 5: He said, I don't know to run the offense. I said,
Speaker 5: where are you from, man, He said, I'm from so
Speaker 5: and so school. I said, you know, I said, this
Speaker 5: is basketball. I want you outside. I want you to
Speaker 5: get the ball. This guy, that guy, we're gonna run two.
Speaker 5: I said, we're gonna have two plays. We're not gonna
Speaker 5: have a lot of plays. Simple plays. I want you
Speaker 5: to do, he said. He couldn't do it crazy. Well,
Speaker 5: you know, everybody I knew could play outside found the ball.
Speaker 5: That's how I had to learn moved inside. Like I
Speaker 5: had a coach at in high school. He said, he
Speaker 5: wanted me to get the ball to certain guys. You
Speaker 5: want me to take any bad shots. If you do,
Speaker 5: you're not gonna play. So I learned well from him.
Speaker 3: But we in the era of a lot of players
Speaker 3: being one or two dimension them like they can't do everything.
Speaker 2: Like I think I could say, that's what basketball is.
Speaker 2: You should be able to do everything.
Speaker 3: I wasn't able to do things nowhere closest to you,
Speaker 3: But I did everything on the court when I played,
Speaker 3: I rebound, I played defense, I passed, I did it all.
Speaker 1: But you mastered it.
Speaker 3: And when people ask you, when people ask you like
Speaker 3: how like you can't teach that, like Russell had Russell just.
Speaker 2: Has that motor. Russell Westbrook, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: You can't really teach a guy to have that passion
Speaker 3: and want to do everything on the court.
Speaker 2: It has to be in you.
Speaker 5: And you know, speaking of Westbrook, I think that it's
Speaker 5: unfortunate for Westbrook that they're doing some of these things
Speaker 5: to him. Think, I think the guy is very valuable
Speaker 5: to any team he's with, But somehow they want to
Speaker 5: blame somebody, right, you know, I blame him. Man, the
Speaker 5: guy's affecting for you. I mean he kept the franchise
Speaker 5: in Oklahoma going for years years.
Speaker 1: What do you think when you when you saw him
Speaker 1: average triple double before the season and and like you said,
Speaker 1: all the attributes he brings to the team.
Speaker 5: Well, I went out to see him and Oklahoma. I
Speaker 5: was happy for the guys, and man, I said, I
Speaker 5: want you to tell you this. We were in the
Speaker 5: room by ourselves talking. I said, I'm happy for you,
Speaker 5: But man, I said, they're gonna.
Speaker 1: Turn on you. You told him that, I said.
Speaker 3: I remember seeing him in the locker room when Russell
Speaker 3: walked in. He was in the locker room waiting on
Speaker 3: my saying.
Speaker 5: That said, they're gonna turn on you because they're gonna
Speaker 5: expect you to do this every night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if.
Speaker 5: You do it you don't win, they're gonna blame you.
Speaker 5: They're gonna blame you, They're gonna blame anybody else. That's
Speaker 5: a bar right there. They did and they did.
Speaker 2: Well, who know better than you?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Who know better than you.
Speaker 1: Who are some of the guys you in today's game
Speaker 1: or or in the past you enjoy watching.
Speaker 5: I like to watch Kerry and Lebron, those guys. I mean,
Speaker 5: I think that they have some great attributes. Uh uh.
Speaker 5: They get on Lebron a lot for holding the ball,
Speaker 5: handling the ball. But he who is gonna though it,
Speaker 5: Carr is a great shot that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: I mean, who's making shots like that? I think a
Speaker 5: lot of kids can shoot the ball. I don't know
Speaker 5: this kid's name from in Indiana. That's a good shooter
Speaker 5: to go to Aliburton. No, no, not the other kid.
Speaker 5: Healed one kids shooting them about fifty percent from the floor.
Speaker 1: He led the leg.
Speaker 5: But but you know, get him to shoot more more,
Speaker 5: you know. But it's just a matter I think. I
Speaker 5: think guys in the game today come from this AAU
Speaker 5: basketball where Rob said, if you don't score, you know
Speaker 5: you're not helping our.
Speaker 1: Team, right right, So.
Speaker 5: Therefore the first thing you want to do is man,
Speaker 5: they want to shoot a three point shot. Man finally
Speaker 5: shot a three point shot in high school. I never
Speaker 5: would have played.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: A lot of teams going after guys that's affecting game
Speaker 3: more than having skills. Because I've been talking to some
Speaker 3: coaches like I talked to Mike Brown too, and a
Speaker 3: lot of scouts are looking for guys that are going
Speaker 3: out there in some leagues that's affecting the game.
Speaker 2: We ain't worried about your one on one.
Speaker 3: If you're going out there getting that extra possession, getting
Speaker 3: that extra rebound, that's the guys they're looking for these days.
Speaker 5: Well, hopefully they get a team. But this is the
Speaker 5: difficulty in basketball today is that it's hard to find
Speaker 5: guys who going to play together. Sometimes you do and
Speaker 5: then like a Milwaukee I hate to bring this up,
Speaker 5: but we win the championship. Do you know to make
Speaker 5: sure they traded six of the guys.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it makes no sense the key guys to
Speaker 2: key guys. I went to the went to the bucks.
Speaker 2: I said, who did this?
Speaker 1: He said, what do you means?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 5: We had makeing said, man, you're killing us. You run
Speaker 5: as we win a championship, let's go with the same
Speaker 5: guys running. We got to the finals and got beat
Speaker 5: by Boston in my fourth year. But you know, guys
Speaker 5: got hurt. Lucia's got hurt that they killed us Lucia's.
Speaker 1: Allen as we're coming to the end of a run
Speaker 1: for three particular great players, Lebron, Steph and Katie. There's
Speaker 1: no telling how long they're playing, but it's not going
Speaker 1: to be too much longer. What do you think about
Speaker 1: those three and what they've been able to bring to
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 5: I think they've been sensational myself because they position themselves
Speaker 5: where they really helped enable the leg to go forward
Speaker 5: to get these huge contracts from those people. When they
Speaker 5: step on the floor, it's exciting.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 5: They generate a lot of talk with the new news
Speaker 5: people and whatnot. But still, you know, you watch them,
Speaker 5: watch I'll say this, I'll say it again. When when uh?
Speaker 5: When when? Sometimes when the blind when the Lakers don't win,
Speaker 5: they said, oh, Lebron turned the ball over, he did,
Speaker 5: he did that, But what about the other guys on
Speaker 5: the team?
Speaker 2: Don't are they getting paid?
Speaker 1: What about the other guys? You know he's the main
Speaker 1: lebronter over here, but also loves him.
Speaker 2: Well, well that's that's right. But you know, even Kerry,
Speaker 2: you know that you're talking about Kerry.
Speaker 5: Now, you know that he's always getting old, you know,
Speaker 5: you know he's not gonna be able to do that forever.
Speaker 5: And then what happens then and Kevin Durant. You know,
Speaker 5: I just I think it's a tremendous shooter, you know,
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean seeing a guy that big shoot
Speaker 5: the ball, I can't unbelievable. Know what I was talking
Speaker 5: earlier about the Olympics. France did. But the only way,
Speaker 5: the only way the USA was going to beat France
Speaker 5: with France had to go on the zone.
Speaker 1: That made.
Speaker 5: Curry, KD and Booker great. Those guys. They couldn't beat
Speaker 5: those three guys with a zone, and that's what they
Speaker 5: went into the zone, and Curry started knocking them down. Man,
Speaker 5: because up to that point where he was playing man
Speaker 5: the man, he wasn't that effective.
Speaker 1: In your opinion, what was the best part of your
Speaker 1: game and where where? What area did you feel you
Speaker 1: needed to continue to work while you were playing.
Speaker 5: I think the best part of my game was understand
Speaker 5: the offense and then how they get guys in the game.
Speaker 5: Uh uh, you know, you know when I played, you know,
Speaker 5: used to have two big plays and you know, and
Speaker 5: and and to run these plays you got something happened
Speaker 5: to happen.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: I looked back on my career.
Speaker 5: Now, you know, I think I should have shot a
Speaker 5: lot more. Well. The reason I said that, you know,
Speaker 5: is that is that the guys I played played with
Speaker 5: were not as good.
Speaker 1: A shooter as I was.
Speaker 5: I could get the shot anytime I wanted it, but
Speaker 5: I was such a such an unselfish player. I wanted
Speaker 5: to get other guys in the game, and I was
Speaker 5: told to do this. And even Cincinnati we had we
Speaker 5: didn't have a great team, but they wanted me to
Speaker 5: get these other guys, get the other game that get
Speaker 5: this guy in and get this kind of game. But
Speaker 5: they didn't say anything about me. I'm not saying this
Speaker 5: because because I'm here with you guys, but I just
Speaker 5: think if we could have been more successful if I
Speaker 5: shot more.
Speaker 2: Well, just think if you if you were a shot
Speaker 2: more and you already average thirty.
Speaker 5: That's but I think in those days it was very
Speaker 5: difficult for for a player to play and not get
Speaker 5: a shot.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 5: We had a player named Curtis Perry played in Milwaukee,
Speaker 5: and we had plays and I never forget once we
Speaker 5: were in the locker room where that guys also mans
Speaker 5: getting any shots. Hell man, they all going to Kareem,
Speaker 5: I said, I said. But when Curtis Burry came to
Speaker 5: me one day, said, man, I'm not getting the ball.
Speaker 5: So I told asked the coach, Larry Costello, I said,
Speaker 5: what can we do? He's got a rebound more, I said, Curtis, don't,
Speaker 5: I'll take care of you. So I started taking the
Speaker 5: ball to him a lot, you know. But but there
Speaker 5: are a lot of players and like that, like Curtis Perry,
Speaker 5: you know, guys like that. You know that no one
Speaker 5: cares about him, you know. And then forget there was
Speaker 5: there was a yeah in New York I want to
Speaker 5: take he was playing. He never never took any shots,
Speaker 5: and they had all these guys was taking all the
Speaker 5: shots going what not. So they got into this real
Speaker 5: tough basketball game and they weren't doing so well. They
Speaker 5: started throwing the ball. So he called time out. What
Speaker 5: the hell you throwing me the ball now? He said, yeah,
Speaker 5: throw me the ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And now all of a sudden, you can't get your shot,
Speaker 5: you're gonna throw me the ball. That's that's what happens
Speaker 5: a lot, you know. But it's really difficult today in
Speaker 5: this game of basketball. You know, where I think the
Speaker 5: fans anticipate certain guys doing things. Uh, I mean what
Speaker 5: bothers me more than anything. I can't guy just come
Speaker 5: up to you, this drive around you so us? Yeah, no,
Speaker 5: I mean you don't.
Speaker 2: They don't slide, that's not does not even care.
Speaker 5: K has made the food out of USA all because
Speaker 5: that guard didn't fight through to get to his man.
Speaker 5: I would never have Koreean switch on my man too much.
Speaker 5: Why am I gonna go inside and play as the
Speaker 5: seven foot four guys? And then the US said kept
Speaker 5: doing that and going last day? What was the coach doing,
Speaker 5: carr you? I mean you know you can't say you know,
Speaker 5: you can't say you want you want to Steph Curry
Speaker 5: to switch off on side. But Korean won't switch anyway,
Speaker 5: So it didn't know now, but I'd fight through.
Speaker 1: It was different, I mean it changed. Probably was the end.
Speaker 1: I came in in O two and left in seventeen
Speaker 1: where when you first he was through the post and
Speaker 1: we didn't switch on screens. You fought over under or
Speaker 1: throw the screen. You have to do that, yeah, because
Speaker 1: it wouldn't work other way. Yeah. Now it's everybody's switchabulls.
Speaker 3: And they used to tell you get a big man
Speaker 3: the bomb. He ain't gonna set the screen. You already
Speaker 3: know you was in the league. They said, if the
Speaker 3: big man run up and down, make sure you can
Speaker 3: let him touch the ball, because he the one set
Speaker 3: in the screens. He rebound, he's doing all the dirty
Speaker 3: work if you don't throw them the ball. Watch how
Speaker 3: your screens beat? Watch how you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's resorted to that because you see a lot
Speaker 5: a lot of a lot of teams they would always
Speaker 5: set the big guy out beyond the file line. And
Speaker 5: then and the rules are you have to go out
Speaker 5: to the file line at least to the fire line.
Speaker 5: You can still neat the basket. That has made a
Speaker 5: lot of guys great it. Maybe you go to the
Speaker 5: basket and dunk the ball and do that. But I'll
Speaker 5: tell you this, when Wilton and Russell plays, you didn't
Speaker 5: do that, Nate Thurman, you didn't get no duncks like that.
Speaker 5: I mean it, But it it's a game has really changed.
Speaker 5: But I think it's a good game. But but this
Speaker 5: is the way he's going to be from here for forever,
Speaker 5: and I think they ought to cancel the All Star Game.
Speaker 3: Joe One Question. One Quick Question author you ever gotten
Speaker 3: to fight in the game, not a total fight, Yeah,
Speaker 3: because we had Wayne Embry. Wayne was he was laying
Speaker 3: people out.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 5: He was about six satan seventy five, you know big,
Speaker 5: you know. I mean, I mean because when you play
Speaker 5: against will see Bill couldn't push him underneath the back.
Speaker 5: And I guess guys realize that, man and so. But
Speaker 5: there are a lot of knockout guys on these teams.
Speaker 5: I must tell you. Once you went through them, you
Speaker 5: know you understood what they were trying to do. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so so you watch yourself, you know. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 5: this is what I understand today. You know, I saw that.
Speaker 5: You know, I really don't think he was trying to
Speaker 5: hit Rudy. But when you're in a fight adds up.
Speaker 5: You don't run up behind a guy that's just that's
Speaker 5: getting hitting and punching at some of else. You don't
Speaker 5: you go around so he can see you. That was
Speaker 5: the biggest dude on the court. He ran too too. Well.
Speaker 5: It was unfortunate. It was unfortunate. But I've been in
Speaker 5: in situations where guys getting punched. I mean, you know,
Speaker 5: but you know it was like it was just punches. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you know guys would go, that'll be it man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no suspension, know nothing. Fifty dollars now, yeah, I
Speaker 3: got thirty three million for one punch. It wasn't a player. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it wasn't a regular.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a player, but it wasn't record punch. I'm
Speaker 1: with you, So here we go. We got the home stretch.
Speaker 1: We obviously appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing with
Speaker 1: us for eighty five. You're looking great. What are you
Speaker 1: doing to stay in shape these days? You golf, exercise
Speaker 1: or eat good? What do you do?
Speaker 2: I'm not doing as much.
Speaker 1: That's the secret.
Speaker 5: My daughter's keep telling me. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't walk enough. You don't want walking up? He looks.
Speaker 2: I want to look like that. At eighty five, he
Speaker 2: got your dog.
Speaker 3: I got five good because because they say, because they say,
Speaker 3: when you have daughters, that's gonna be the ones to
Speaker 3: take care of you when you get older.
Speaker 2: I got yeah, glad, I got five. I got six acts.
Speaker 1: No sugar, no salt, drinks, none of those things. Just health.
Speaker 1: Health is important. One thing you wish you were better at.
Speaker 5: I wish had had been better at communicating about about
Speaker 5: the association's direction. What we were trying to do because
Speaker 5: I don't. I don't think a lot of a lot
Speaker 5: of guys understood it. Even today. I don't think they
Speaker 5: understood how they are, how they got where they are today.
Speaker 5: And I just think although although we won in court
Speaker 5: with the Oscar option rule, I still don't think. I
Speaker 5: think a lot of them just realized. I think that
Speaker 5: they this year because they're great players. So many people
Speaker 5: paved the way, so many Yeah, but you know, I mean,
Speaker 5: see a guy makes sixty million. I mean, do you
Speaker 5: really think he think he's worth sixty million dollars play basketball?
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, Lebron is somebody who's no doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: But if you get it, take it man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean you negotiate.
Speaker 5: That's a lot of money to pay anyone to do
Speaker 5: something that that you that you really love.
Speaker 3: To do, and we used to do for free, but
Speaker 3: but now you ain't gotta love it and you're getting
Speaker 3: that money.
Speaker 2: I guess they don't have them, don't even love and
Speaker 2: they get paid. What advice should you give current players?
Speaker 5: Invest your money wisely, invest your money wise? You want
Speaker 5: to speak little Chinese if you can, because you know,
Speaker 5: because you know because the world, the world doesn't doesn't
Speaker 5: in with the US A right, or the NBA or
Speaker 5: the n b A right, guys are making means a dollar, arn't.
Speaker 5: There's some wealthy people in this country, man. I'm talking
Speaker 5: about bigger, bigger theres, bigger and bigger theres. And you
Speaker 5: know how they make their money. Find out how they
Speaker 5: make their money, what they what they're doing. I mean,
Speaker 5: but but it's gonna go on. I mean, I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't think it's gonna get any worse. I think
Speaker 5: the basketball players right now are gonna lead these other
Speaker 5: other baseball and football into the direction of getting more
Speaker 5: and more money for the players.
Speaker 1: Right, guaranteed money too, even with the.
Speaker 5: Scarf, the rule the owners. What what do you think
Speaker 5: the owners getting out of it?
Speaker 1: If they're paying the players, that's crazy money.
Speaker 5: Favorite musical group Temptations.
Speaker 2: Temptations, that's you listen to right now, Like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: this is quite a bit.
Speaker 5: You know, there's a lot of a lot of music,
Speaker 5: Fast Domino, Yeah, Classics, Jackie Wilson.
Speaker 1: Anything new.
Speaker 5: You know, you know you didn't play something.
Speaker 2: He told you to turn it off on.
Speaker 1: Myself.
Speaker 5: So you hear music today. First of all they got
Speaker 5: the sound and music up so bad. I don't even know,
Speaker 5: can't say the words. They don't care about the words,
Speaker 5: no more. And one thing I think more than anything,
Speaker 5: they wanted they wanted to come out and short pants
Speaker 5: and whatnot. You know, you know, I think people see
Speaker 5: that they say, oh man, you know what, what a
Speaker 5: great song?
Speaker 2: Well what the hell did they say?
Speaker 1: Say?
Speaker 5: You know, I just whipping the air work cloud neck
Speaker 5: fatter these guys man, you understand, and and the Temptations
Speaker 5: and the and the fourth Tops.
Speaker 2: Man, it was a class. It was all class back there.
Speaker 2: It was superclass, I mean, and they could sing in
Speaker 2: different type songs you know, fast, slow, and everybody was
Speaker 2: dressed like everybody had on gowns and tuxedos. It wasn't
Speaker 2: no half naked what none of that, but they had.
Speaker 1: It was it was calmed out though they wouldn't let
Speaker 1: they have.
Speaker 3: Chemical yeah, but all kind of they have like that.
Speaker 5: The it was it was a great era, to be honest,
Speaker 5: what not. You know as a matter of fact that
Speaker 5: if you look a look at music, but not they
Speaker 5: went they went from rock and roll then, yes, what
Speaker 5: what did they go after? What did you do after that?
Speaker 2: After rock and roll with the soul soul so.
Speaker 5: Who was winning all the awards from locking roll to
Speaker 5: the Little Richard got the Beatles started. People don't know
Speaker 5: that Little Richard was a tremendous star, super talent for
Speaker 5: a long time in the rock and roll. He was
Speaker 5: going to the black stars. All of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 5: so so so then what happened. They came up They said, oh,
Speaker 5: we can't have this. They started making soul music. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, we have the most copied race in the world.
Speaker 5: So I get it.
Speaker 1: I get it. I wish we had more time just
Speaker 1: to sit and pick you all day, man, but we
Speaker 1: we really appreciate your time. Thank you for spending a
Speaker 1: little bit with us. We're looking forward to seeing you
Speaker 1: the rest of the weekend man, and and just thank
Speaker 1: you for everything you did, not only for us before
Speaker 1: the game and and for the culture. Really appreciate.
Speaker 5: I think it was something that was a good ride.
Speaker 5: I'm glad I did it. You know, it wasn't always easy.
Speaker 5: But as I said before you, I'm glad for the players, man,
Speaker 5: I'm glad that making them money living in the mansions
Speaker 5: and fifty million dollar houses whatnot. And it means a
Speaker 5: lot to me because you know, these guys will never
Speaker 5: had to have their families to worry about anything.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: That means a lot, you know, means a whole lot.
Speaker 1: And it started with and.
Speaker 2: We're saying all that it takes no energy to say
Speaker 2: thank you, No, it does not.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, I've always said this also. Then then
Speaker 5: my daughter, she said, I she cut it off with this.
Speaker 1: She gave you the sign.
Speaker 5: I think everyone that plays basketball or goes into a
Speaker 5: corporation should know the history of that, the corporation of
Speaker 5: the game of basketball or baseball or football, whatever whatever.
Speaker 5: They should have to read about it and find out
Speaker 5: what it's all about. But these guys aren't going to
Speaker 5: do that.
Speaker 1: We talked about that before you came in, understanding who
Speaker 1: came before and who paved the way. So we understand,
Speaker 1: and we definitely appreciate everything you did to the game
Speaker 1: and again did for the culture. So thank you for
Speaker 1: your time to that.
Speaker 5: Man. Appreciate that, Appreciate being with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I ma a pure Larry.
Speaker 1: John said, let's go ask where we should go, and
Speaker 1: y'all flooded it. Man, So we appreciate the love.
Speaker 2: Fack that y'all coming out and showing us love. We
Speaker 2: appreciate y'all. Mm hmmm
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm