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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to.

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Speaker 3: Stuff I've Never told you production of iHeartRadio, and today

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Speaker 3: we are once again thrilled to be joined by the fabulous,

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Speaker 3: the fantastic Bridget Todd.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Bridget, Thank you for having me back. I'm so

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Speaker 2: excited to be here.

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Speaker 3: We're so excited to have you always. But yes, we

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Speaker 3: were discussing beforehand. There's a lot for us that we

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Speaker 3: would like your expertise on, so always, we appreciate you

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Speaker 3: coming on. There's so much going on right now. That

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Speaker 3: being said, how are you, Bridget?

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Speaker 2: You know this week was I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: all feel it. I feel like the last few weeks

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Speaker 2: has been pretty rough. It feels like things are different.

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Speaker 2: It just feels like a shift in the air, which

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Speaker 2: can be hard to exist in, let alone make content

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Speaker 2: in that doesn't make people fearful and want to check out,

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Speaker 2: which I think maybe we're all kind of navigating.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, is that something that resonates with youtwo.

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Speaker 3: Yes, uh, yes, uh it's we make a lot of

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Speaker 3: contents and we do try to mix things up, but

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Speaker 3: we also don't want to make more things. But I mean,

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Speaker 3: for instance, yesterday I just had a lot of trouble

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Speaker 3: concentrating on my work because I was thinking about all

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Speaker 3: this other stuff and like, what what's going on in

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Speaker 3: the world? What can I do? Which I've always maintained

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Speaker 3: that if you want to get more productivity out of people,

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Speaker 3: then they're going about it the completely wrong. But that's

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Speaker 3: just a very small personal gripe of mine. Uh but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's it's been it's been difficult.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: What I've discovered is these tiny little coloring books that

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Speaker 1: are really like easy coloring, so it's not detailed because

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Speaker 1: I've discovered as much as I'd like to do those things,

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Speaker 1: I cannot stay within the lines. And when they get

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Speaker 1: really like fancy the adult coloring book versions, like they

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Speaker 1: get fancy and you have to do the shading, and like,

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Speaker 1: what what is this? Why do I have so many

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Speaker 1: things to color? So I discover these tiny ones that's

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Speaker 1: just like cutesy large pictures of like a milkshake. It

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Speaker 1: has been really nice that I can just check out,

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Speaker 1: stay inside the lines and color with a marker like

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Speaker 1: those little like you know, paint like markers that doesn't

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Speaker 1: really satisfying. Nice to like zone.

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Speaker 2: Out, Sam, you are speaking my language, because a good

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Speaker 2: I have a I've spent so much money on this.

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Speaker 2: But alcohol markers the one like, there's nothing quite like

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Speaker 2: a good marker. A new set of markers. You're like,

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Speaker 2: this is gonna change everything. My future starts today. I've

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Speaker 2: got this new set of markers. Yes, and the ones,

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Speaker 2: the ones that that I write really well, are so satisfying.

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Speaker 2: I know I sound like a crazy person, but genuinely,

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Speaker 2: the appeal of finding the right set of markers conchange everything.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I am obsessed with pins and well written

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Speaker 1: fine point pins, like it has to be fine points,

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Speaker 1: Like the Chinese and Japanese have a market because they

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Speaker 1: have some of the best, like nicely flowing pins. Even

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Speaker 1: though my my hand writing is really really bad, but

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Speaker 1: I love the feel of like a nice smooth rite.

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Speaker 1: But with these, like the alcohol markers, as you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: the only problem I have is the color that reports

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Speaker 1: that they say they represent on the cap doesn't actually

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Speaker 1: like translate in the marketing. So I'm like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is a yellow and it turns orange. I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 1: this is this is not But it is very smooth

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Speaker 1: and it is very satisfying because it fills all the

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Speaker 1: lines and you're like, yes, I'm a professional colorer.

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Speaker 4: Of course.

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Speaker 2: This is how this is how much I tell seriously,

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Speaker 2: I take this. When I get a new set of markers,

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Speaker 2: the first thing I do is a little colors watch

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Speaker 2: to be the oh they say orange, what their orange

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Speaker 2: looks like? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I know, no surprises, you know what that's good to

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Speaker 1: That is great advice as a newly marker purchasing person.

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Speaker 1: So thank you. I'm gonna have to have to get

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Speaker 1: some like scrap paper just so I can do that.

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Speaker 2: This is we can do a whole episode on this.

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Speaker 2: Let's just look pens markers my family. It gives me

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Speaker 2: a head tingles even just talking about it. I love

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Speaker 2: it so much.

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Speaker 1: So since I did the like pre show, everything's the

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Speaker 1: worst I have to bring in. This is a solution,

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Speaker 1: and it's coloring large small coloring books that with wonderful markers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that can be the antidote to our troubling times.

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Speaker 2: Have you considered just diving headfirst into the world of

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Speaker 2: markers and penmanship and calligraphy and journaling and coloring.

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Speaker 1: It is quite nice. It is quite nice.

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Speaker 4: Annie.

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Speaker 1: I will leave some for you. I know you're about

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Speaker 1: to house it for me, so I will leave some

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Speaker 1: for you to try out yourself.

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Speaker 3: You know I have. I have two main thoughts from this.

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Speaker 3: One is that I hate when this happens where your

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Speaker 3: birthday is coming up, Samantha, and I wish I had

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Speaker 3: known this earlier. That would have been a great gift.

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Speaker 3: But then I think, Bridget, you should come on one

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Speaker 3: time and let us talk about something that's not so stressful.

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Speaker 3: Let's give let's give ourselves a little break. We can

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Speaker 3: talk about markers. I know you mentioned like reality TV.

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Speaker 3: We could have a whole thing where it's not something

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Speaker 3: so do all.

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Speaker 1: The like dark stuff we should make. Let you come

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Speaker 1: in with the joys that you have because we just

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Speaker 1: talked about the Adirondacks and everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like people who listen to my content

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Speaker 2: might not know that I experienced joy I have I had.

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Speaker 2: The only things I talk about are not the crushing

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Speaker 2: weight of fascism.

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Speaker 4: Enjoy reality television.

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Speaker 3: I think this would be fun. I think we should

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Speaker 3: look at it all right.

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Speaker 4: I like it.

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Speaker 3: Oh, but unfortunately before that day, we're not doing that today.

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Speaker 3: This is also the timing is interesting because we're Samantha

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Speaker 3: and I are working on an update on CPCs crisis

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Speaker 3: pregnancy centers. I know them very well, yes, and we

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Speaker 3: in our research ran into a lot of stuff about

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Speaker 3: how tech companies were basically paying for them to advertise

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Speaker 3: or accepting their money and being misleading about things. So

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Speaker 3: this is very much related. Uh, what are we talking

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Speaker 3: about today, bridget.

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Speaker 4: Well, that is such a good transition because it's all related.

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Speaker 2: But tech companies really have put their thumbs on the

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Speaker 2: scale when it comes to being able to get accurate

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Speaker 2: content about abortion on social media. Your point about crisis

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Speaker 2: pregnancy centers and the way that Google essentially is like

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Speaker 2: paying an advertising network for them to exist is a

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Speaker 2: great example. But today I really wanted to talk about

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Speaker 2: how social media is heavily moderating and even in some

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Speaker 2: cases like suppressing and censoring content about abortion. I think

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Speaker 2: that we all talked about this back in January. But

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Speaker 2: did you remember when Mark Zuckerberg had that moment that

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Speaker 2: people sort of talked about as his mask off moment

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Speaker 2: Back in January when Trump came back into office. I

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Speaker 2: think that we were talking about how he really started

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Speaker 2: dressing like a divorced nightclub promoter and was saying things like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're taking the tampons out of the washrooms at the

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Speaker 2: restroot in here at Facebook, HQ just really was sort

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Speaker 2: of having a moment where he was saying a lot

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Speaker 2: of things.

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Speaker 4: Do you remember this.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, oh yes, he was like he leaned in hard.

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Speaker 3: He was hard.

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Speaker 1: He's been waiting for those moments.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Oh my gosh, you could tell.

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Speaker 2: I mean I almost quippled when people were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's his mask off moment because I don't think that

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Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg has any kind of like I don't. I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't call it a mask off moment because I think

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Speaker 2: that he is the definition of a hollow, empty person,

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Speaker 2: and so I think he is the mask.

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Speaker 4: He will say anything.

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Speaker 2: I think that he has no he's I'm honestly fascinated

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Speaker 2: by him as a tech leader because I think that

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Speaker 2: he has no value, scruples, morals, there's just nothing. He

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Speaker 2: will say anything, he will do anything. However the wind blows,

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Speaker 2: that's how he will blow. And I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: fair to call that a mask moment when truly, like

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Speaker 2: what the mask is not hiding anything. This is just

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Speaker 2: genuinely like who you are, who you always have been,

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Speaker 2: just the soulless person who was waiting to see who

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Speaker 2: they should kiss up to you and will do that

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Speaker 2: if it means holding onto power.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: He was just waiting in the background, like his personality

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Speaker 1: was just waiting in the shadows. And then it's like, ohh,

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Speaker 1: this is my moment.

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Speaker 2: And so when that all was going on, he also

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Speaker 2: announced that Meta was going to be scrapping their community

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Speaker 2: notes feature and scrapping all third party fact checking on

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Speaker 2: the platform, because, as he said, it was time for

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Speaker 2: the company to get back to their roots when it

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Speaker 2: comes to free expression. I will play a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a video that he put out talking about this.

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Speaker 5: Hey everyone, I want to talk about something important today

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Speaker 5: because it's time to get back to our roots around

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Speaker 5: free expression on Facebook and Instagram. I started building social

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Speaker 5: media to give people a voice. I gave a speech

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Speaker 5: at Georgetown five years ago about the importance of protecting

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Speaker 5: free expression and I still believe this today. But a

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Speaker 5: lot has happened over the last several years. There's been

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Speaker 5: widespread debate about potential harms from online content. Governments and

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Speaker 5: legacy media have pushed to censor more and more. A

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Speaker 5: lot of this is clearly political, but there's also a

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Speaker 5: lot of legitimately bad stuff out there, drugs, terrorism, child exploitation.

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Speaker 5: These are things that we take very seriously, and I

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Speaker 5: want to make sure that we handle responsibly.

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Speaker 4: So I have a lot to say about that.

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Speaker 2: First of all, very convenient rewriting of the history that

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Speaker 2: frankly wasn't that long ago, and that if you're listening

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Speaker 2: in your my age you probably remember, because we all

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Speaker 2: know it is not a secret that Facebook. Mark Fuckerberg

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Speaker 2: created Facebook as a college student to rank the looks

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Speaker 2: of the women in on his college campus. Somehow we

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Speaker 2: sort of let him get away with being like, I

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Speaker 2: created Facebook to protect free expression. Okay, sure, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I always have to like quibble at that because he,

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Speaker 2: I guess saw a video where he said I created

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Speaker 2: Facebook because I wanted people to be able to have

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Speaker 2: debates about the Iraq War, and it's like, no, you did.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I was an organizer in the anti

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Speaker 2: war movement. Nobody was communicating on Facebook when were like,

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Speaker 2: Facebook wasn't for that.

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Speaker 4: So that's just not true.

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Speaker 2: I really have a thing where people lie to your

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Speaker 2: face about recent history that you remember that you were

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Speaker 2: therefore that you were part of so that's bullshit. But

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Speaker 2: even more than that, he's talking about how the content

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Speaker 2: that he really wants to focus on in terms of

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Speaker 2: moderating the platform is a legal content, right, child safety, harms,

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Speaker 2: drug trade, organized criminal activity, all of that. So this

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Speaker 2: is when he was really talking about how important it

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Speaker 2: was to protect free expression on social media platforms. Y'all

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Speaker 2: might recall that around this time he was in the

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Speaker 2: headlines for saying that you felt the Biden administration had

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Speaker 2: been trying to pressure Facebook into removing COVID misinformation. The

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Speaker 2: White House had a different take, saying, quote, when confronted

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Speaker 2: with the deadly pandemic, this administration encouraged responsible actions to

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Speaker 2: protect public health and safety. Our position has been very

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Speaker 2: clear and consistent. We believe tech companies and other private

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Speaker 2: actors should take into account the effects their actions have

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Speaker 2: on the American people while making independent choices about the

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Speaker 2: information they present. So, you know, Zuckerberg in this moment

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Speaker 2: was like, we are not going to be moderating political

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Speaker 2: content the way that we have been. We are going

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Speaker 2: to lift restrictions on topics that are part of mainstream

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Speaker 2: discourse and really just focus on the enforcement of a

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Speaker 2: legal and like high severity violation.

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Speaker 4: So yay for free speech.

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Speaker 2: Right, that all sounds great, Well, all of that, it's

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Speaker 2: only the case if that part of the mainstream discourse

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Speaker 2: is not abortion, which Facebook continues to suppress and moderate

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Speaker 2: quite heavily with zero transparency and zero consistency.

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Speaker 4: So it seems like.

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Speaker 2: If you're spreading COVID misinformation, well that is protected speech

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Speaker 2: that needs to be left up for freedom. If you

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Speaker 2: are sharing accurate information about abortion that isn't even against

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Speaker 2: metas policies, they will take it down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you said, without warning or transpancy or nothing,

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Speaker 3: just is gone. And you might not know why or well,

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Speaker 3: you could probably figure it out. But one of the

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Speaker 3: things that's really frustrating about all of this is that,

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Speaker 3: you know, like you said, they're kind of lying to

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Speaker 3: our faces, right, Like they're saying one thing and doing

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Speaker 3: something completely different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what really makes me angry about this. You know,

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Speaker 2: I cover a lot of tech companies. The thing that

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Speaker 2: gets me is when they lie, when they say one

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Speaker 2: thing publicly, when they publish something in their rules and

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Speaker 2: regulations and policies. You know, no one's putting a gun

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Speaker 2: to their head and making them put these things in

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Speaker 2: their rules. They put them in their rules, and then

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Speaker 2: they do a completely different thing, and then when advocates

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Speaker 2: or organizers call them out on it, there's just no

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Speaker 2: They're just like, oops, what are you gonna do that?

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Speaker 2: For some reason, that just really gets me, because they

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Speaker 2: are allowed to enjoy all of this positive press of

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Speaker 2: putting this thing in their policy and then continue doing

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Speaker 2: the shady work of going against that policy.

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Speaker 4: It never it never comes back at them.

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Speaker 2: But they're able to just do whatever they want while

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Speaker 2: saying one thing and doing another.

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Speaker 4: And I just don't feel like they really get held accountable.

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Speaker 2: And so a Meta spokesperson said that taking down abortion

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Speaker 2: content goes against Meta's own intentions. A spokesperson told The

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Speaker 2: New York Times, we want our platforms to be a

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Speaker 2: place where people can access reliable information about health services,

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Speaker 2: advertisers can promote health services, and everyone can discuss and

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Speaker 2: debate public policies in this space. That is why we

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Speaker 2: allow posts and ads discussing and debating abortion. But they're

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Speaker 2: not doing that at all. Because the big thing to

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Speaker 2: know here is that Meta says one thing in their

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Speaker 2: policies and then does a completely different thing when it

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Speaker 2: comes to how they are actually moderating abortion content.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's it's it's so difficult right now to

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Speaker 3: get that good information and there's so much misinformation and

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Speaker 3: disinformation out there, and to remove it is just really

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Speaker 3: piling onto a problem that really doesn't need any more

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Speaker 3: piling onto. It is already really bad and people are

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Speaker 3: already very confused. This is not helping.

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Speaker 2: No, that's a really good context to set that. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're in a time where the Supreme Court struck down Row.

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Speaker 2: It is so much harder to access accurate information about

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Speaker 2: help so that people can make health decisions for themselves.

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Speaker 2: And when social media platforms like Facebook put their thumb

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Speaker 2: on the scales and make these kinds of moderation decisions

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Speaker 2: with no transparency that go against their own stated policy,

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Speaker 2: it just makes that climate so much harder. It makes

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Speaker 2: it harder for the people who are trying to do

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Speaker 2: this work, abortion providers and abortion advocates. It makes it

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Speaker 2: harder for people who need to make decisions about their

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Speaker 2: health and the people that support them. It makes it

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Speaker 2: so that people cannot access information.

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Speaker 4: To figure out what they want to do with their own.

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Speaker 2: Bodies and lives, and these companies do that while saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: we promote the ability to use our platforms to get

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Speaker 2: this kind of information. I would prefer that they say

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Speaker 2: we don't like abortion, we don't want people using our

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Speaker 2: platform to talk about abortion, so we take that content off.

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Speaker 4: At least that would be honest.

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Speaker 2: But what they are doing is lying to people about

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Speaker 2: what they're actually doing while doing it. It's so it's

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Speaker 2: it's really adding insult to injury.

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Speaker 1: Right, I mean, the true honest answer probably is that

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Speaker 1: they are taking money or they know that they are

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Speaker 1: just buying time until the entirety of our rights and

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Speaker 1: productive rights may be completely dismantled in every way. And

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Speaker 1: that way they can already say, hey, leaders of this

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Speaker 1: fascist regime, we have done everything for you, so can

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Speaker 1: you keep supporting our platform and give us more money?

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Speaker 2: Ugh, I mean the way that you've got the fox

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Speaker 2: Watch in the Henhouse here, the way that platforms are

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Speaker 2: able to cozy up to really, I mean, it's not

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Speaker 2: even really the Trump administration, just whoever is in power.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And then though that administration is also the administration that

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Speaker 2: is meant to be overseeing and regulating them. It's horrible

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Speaker 2: and so we really it's I'm glad that you brought

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Speaker 2: that up, because I think that helps us peel back

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Speaker 2: the layers of what exactly is going on here and

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Speaker 2: why it's so unacceptable.

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Speaker 1: And in understanding that that the whole confusion part is

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Speaker 1: probably the point.

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Speaker 4: I think that's true.

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Speaker 2: I mean, in looking at some of the ways that

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Speaker 2: Facebook says one thing and does another when it comes

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Speaker 2: to moderating abortion content, I think that's exactly the point.

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Speaker 2: It's like, you know, if we and we'll get into

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Speaker 2: this a little bit in a moment, but if we

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Speaker 2: create a confusing, inconsistent, not transparent climate, people will just

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Speaker 2: stop posting this information on our platforms.

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Speaker 4: And so we don't have to crack down on all

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 2: We don't have to have a policy that does not

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Speaker 2: allow for abortion content to be on our platform. It'll

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Speaker 2: there'll be a chilling effect and people will do it

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Speaker 2: on their own. They'll just stop posting on their own,

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Speaker 2: and I think, in my opinion, that's the why of

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Speaker 2: why this is happening. So Meta says that they really

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Speaker 2: want to focus on moderating posts that deal with illegal content.

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Speaker 2: Side note, they don't always do such a great job

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Speaker 2: of that either, But that's for another episode. So meta's

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Speaker 2: Dangerous Organizations and Individuals ORDI policy was supposed to really

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Speaker 2: be like a narrow policy focusing on preventing the platform

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Speaker 2: from being used by terrorist groups or organized crime like

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Speaker 2: violent or criminal activity. But according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation,

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Speaker 2: over the years, we've really seen those rules be applied

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Speaker 2: in far broader and troubling ways, with little transparency and

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Speaker 2: significant impact on marginalized voices. And this has essentially allowed

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Speaker 2: META to suppress factual content about abortion that does not

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Speaker 2: actually break any of the platform's rules.

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Speaker 4: So the reason let me know this is.

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Speaker 2: Because the Electronic Frontier Foundation or EFF have really given

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Speaker 2: us a snapshot into what's happening and provided some very

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Speaker 2: clear receipts with their Stoff Censoring Abortion campaign eff sas

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Speaker 2: they collected stories from individuals, healthcare clinics, advocacy groups, and more,

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Speaker 2: and together they've revealed nearly one hundred examples of posts

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Speaker 2: and resources being taken down, ranging from guidance on medication

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Speaker 2: abortion to links of resources supporting individuals in states with

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Speaker 2: abortion bands. What is important to note is that the

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Speaker 2: posts that they found that weren't taken down or that

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Speaker 2: resulted in sometimes a ban did not break any of

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Speaker 2: Meta's rules. Eff said, we analyze these takedowns, deletions, and

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Speaker 2: bands comparing the content to what platform policies allow, particularly

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Speaker 2: those of Meta, and found that almost none of the

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Speaker 2: submissions we received violated any of the platform stated policies.

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Speaker 2: Most of the censored posts simply provided factual, educational information.

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Speaker 2: So it really is a system where you don't know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess you could guess why this content

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Speaker 2: is being taken down. There's no consistency, there's no transparency,

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Speaker 2: and Facebook just gets to be like oopsie when it happens.

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Speaker 2: Here's a great example of a post that was removed

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Speaker 2: from a healthcare policy strategist named Lauren Carer discussing abortion

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Speaker 2: pills availability by mail. Her post reads, FYI, abortion pills

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Speaker 2: are great to have around, whether you anticipate needing them

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Speaker 2: or not. Plan C Pills is an amazing resource to

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Speaker 2: help you find reliable sources for abortion pills by mail,

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Speaker 2: no matter where you live. Once received, the pill should

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Speaker 2: be kept in a cool, dry place. The shelf life

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Speaker 2: of maybe pristone is about five years. The shelf life

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Speaker 2: of misso pristal is about two years. There's a missipriystal

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Speaker 2: only regiment that is extremely safe, effective, and very common globally,

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Speaker 2: So that post is just here is some factual information

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Speaker 2: about these pills. However, Facebook removed that post, and the

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Speaker 2: explanation they gave Lauren was that they don't allow people

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Speaker 2: to buy, sell, or exchange drugs that require a prescription

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Speaker 2: from a doctor or a pharmacist. But as you can tell,

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Speaker 2: that post isn't about selling or buying or trading medication.

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Speaker 2: It is just fact based information about that medication.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of those things where you read it

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Speaker 3: and you're like, I don't see the see the thing,

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Speaker 3: the thing that you're saying is there. It's just it's

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Speaker 3: just information. Uh oh it makes you bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And Eff points out that this post does not

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Speaker 2: break any of Meta's rules and should not be removed.

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Speaker 2: But you don't have to take their word for it

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Speaker 2: or my word for it, because Meta said the exact

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Speaker 2: same thing. Eff points out that Meta publicly insists that

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Speaker 2: posts like these should not be censored, and if February

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four letter to Amnesty International, metas Human Rights

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Speaker 2: policy director wrote organic content i e. Non Paid content

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Speaker 2: educating users about medication abortion, is allowed and does not

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Speaker 2: violate our community standards. Additionally, providing guidance on legal access

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Speaker 2: to pharmaceuticals is allowed.

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Speaker 4: So what the hell is suck?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 4: Why if it's allowed, why are you taking it down?

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Speaker 3: I'm so curious about because if the moderators are essentially

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Speaker 3: kind of removed, then is this just a they have

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Speaker 3: like a keyword, like, how is this happening? Is there

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Speaker 3: a person or.

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Speaker 4: That is a great question.

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Speaker 2: If I had to guess, I would say, just knowing

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Speaker 2: what I know about content moderation, I would say this

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Speaker 2: is probably over use of AI moderation and then not

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Speaker 2: caring enough to correct that. That's if I had to say,

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Speaker 2: I would say, because honestly, content moderation is a job

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Speaker 2: for a not just a human, but a culturally competent human.

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Speaker 2: When you don't have culturally competent humans making that moderation decisions,

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Speaker 2: it's a problem, and it's a problem that leads to

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Speaker 2: the content of marginalized people being suppressed much more on

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Speaker 2: these platforms. Right, So, if I had to guess, I

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Speaker 2: would say, this is somebody using an AI content moderation

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Speaker 2: and then not caring enough to correct that. It is

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Speaker 2: consistently taking down content that does not break any of

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Speaker 2: the platform's rules. That's my guess.

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Speaker 3: Well, and that kind of relates to another thing I

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Speaker 3: know you're going to talk about, which is something Smith

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Speaker 3: and I've also talked about on some of our episodes.

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Speaker 3: Is shadow banding.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, shadow banning is one of those issues that

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Speaker 2: I find very interesting because who among us has not

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Speaker 2: posted something on social media? Had that post not perform

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00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: as well as you were expecting, and wonder am I

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00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 2: shadow band I have definitely thought this myself. If you've

439
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 2: ever thought that, you are not alone. But it does

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Speaker 2: really happen. So shadow banning is what a social media

441
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 2: platform limits the visibility of someone's content without telling them.

442
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: And this is happening to people and organizations that make

443
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 2: content about sexual and reproductive health. And it's a real

444
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: problem because, as we were talking about before the Internet

445
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five, like that is really where people

446
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: are going to find information about their health, especially in

447
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: a landscape where that information is more difficult to come by,

448
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 2: where it's criminalized and cracked down on.

449
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 4: So people need the Internet as a resource.

450
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 2: And so if the people and advocates and organizations who

451
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 2: provide that information online are shadow band it becomes that

452
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: much harder to access what is often life saving information

453
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: to help people make health decisions. Earlier this year, the

454
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 2: Center for Intimacy Justice shared a report called the Digital

455
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 2: Gag Suppression of Sexual and Reproductive Health on Meta, TikTok, Amazon,

456
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: and Google, and they found that of the one hundred

457
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 2: and fifty nine nonprofits, content creators, sex educators, and businesses

458
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 2: that they surveyed, sixty three percent had content removed on Meta,

459
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: fifty five percent had content removed on TikTok. And this

460
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: suppression is happening at the same time as platforms continue

461
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 2: to allow and elevate videos of violence and gore and

462
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: extremist and hateful content. And this pattern is troubling because

463
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: it only becomes more prevalent as folks turn more and

464
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: more to social media to find the information that they

465
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: need to make decisions about their health. And so I

466
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: like that context, because we really do have a social

467
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: media landscape that allows for violent content, gory content, extremist

468
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: or hateful content to stay up while taking down accurate

469
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: content about reproductive health that they agreed does not violate

470
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: any of their policies.

471
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 3: It's pretty telling to you. You have some examples here,

472
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: and one of them is from a place near us

473
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 3: that I was like, oh, dear, oh dear Emery. Yeah, yep,

474
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 3: but I mean it's also, oh, as we're doing this

475
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 3: research on the CPC episode, I consider myself pretty you know,

476
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 3: pretty informed about abortion and all of it, but I

477
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: had to look up some stuff about like, I'm not

478
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 3: sure is that legal there? I don't know, Like I

479
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 3: was feeling like, I know, I don't know if I

480
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: can trust this information. And then you try to go

481
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: to a place where you're like, okay, I know this place,

482
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 3: and then you find out it's taken down, it doesn't

483
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: have anything about it. Yeah, it's not a good climate.

484
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

485
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 2: And then you have Google allowing CPCs to stay, you know,

486
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: high ranked in their search. And then when you go

487
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: to CPCs they tell you all kinds of misinformation about

488
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 2: pregnancy and abortion. They are allowed to just essentially lie

489
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 2: to people, people who are in vulnerable situations. And so

490
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: it's already a climate where it's hard to find trustworthy,

491
00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: accurate information, and then the clearly not trustworthy, clearly not

492
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: accurate information is allowed to not just allowed to exist,

493
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: but they put their thumb on the scales in terms

494
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: of making it more accessible than information that is factual.

495
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 4: Yep.

496
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 3: So let us get into some of these examples, including

497
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 3: the one near us.

498
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 4: So let's talk about what happened at Emory University.

499
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: So RISE at Emor University, the Center for Reproductive Health

500
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: and Research in the Southeast, they published a post saying,

501
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: let's talk about Miffy pristone and its uses and the

502
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: importance of access. So they post this online. Two months later,

503
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 2: their account was suddenly suspended, flagged under the policy against

504
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 2: selling illegal drugs, which they were not selling or offering

505
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: illegal drugs. They were just giving fact based health information.

506
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: They tried to appeal, but that appeal was denied, leading

507
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: to their account being permanently deleted. Sarah Read, the director

508
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: of Research and Translation at RISE, told Eff as a team,

509
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: this was a hit to our morale. We poor account

510
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: less hours of person power, creativity and passion into creating

511
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: the content we have on our page and having it

512
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: vanished virtually overnight took a toll on our team. And

513
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: you know, I really think, like think about how critical

514
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: that information is these days, and how critical social media

515
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: is these days. They are already doing sensitive work in

516
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: an area where that work is threatened, and so losing

517
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: your social media that you've put so much time into

518
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,239
Speaker 2: is like losing a lifeline, both for the staff and

519
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: for the community that you're trying to do that work in.

520
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 2: As Eff puts it, For many organizational users like Rise,

521
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: their social media accounts are repository for resources and metrics

522
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: that may not be stored elsewhere. We spent a significant

523
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 2: amount of already constrained team capacity attempting to recover all

524
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 2: of the content we created for Instagram that was potentially

525
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 2: going to be permanently lost. We also spent a significant

526
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: amount of time and energy trying to understand what options

527
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: we might have available for Meta to appeal our case

528
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: and recover our account. Their support options are not easily accessible,

529
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 2: and the time it took to navigate this issue distracted

530
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: from our existing work. So I totally feel what they

531
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: are saying that when you are doing work that is

532
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: that critical, you know, time sensitive, having to stop that

533
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: work to figure out, well, how are we going to

534
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: appeal this decision to Meta? Is all of are all

535
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: of our years and years of work on Instagram just

536
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: lost forever? That is a real problem. And again, they

537
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: weren't doing anything wrong. They're they're nothing that they posted

538
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: on their account was against metas policies. It's just arbitrary

539
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 2: and so luckily they were able to eventually get their

540
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: account back, but only because they knew someone who knew

541
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: somebody who worked at Facebook personally, which is really the

542
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: only way to appeal when this kind of thing happens.

543
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: If you, if you if your account is taken down

544
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: for no real reason by Facebook, I am sorry to say,

545
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: unless you have a friend who knows somebody who works

546
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: at Facebook, you're probably not going to be able to

547
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: appeal again because a lot of these decisions are AI right.

548
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: It can be very very hard to sate to a

549
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: human and the only real way to do it is

550
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: to just know somebody there. And again, I just feel

551
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: that in these situations where Meta agrees these posts are

552
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: not in violation of their rules and that they admit

553
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: they made a mistake, it should not come down to

554
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: knowing somebody at Facebook to have these decisions be reversed

555
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: when Meta agrees they are mistakes on their part.

556
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: Now I'm trying to think if I know someone on

557
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 3: Facebook I used to, I don't know if we're still there. Well,

558
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: another issue with this is, as you said, if people

559
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 3: are worried that their content might be deleted or shadow banned,

560
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 3: or just they've seen this happen to other organizations or

561
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: something like that, then they might not post it anymore.

562
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to assume that is the point eff rights.

563
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, clinics are clinics are

564
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: left afraid to post basic information, patients are left confused

565
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: or misinformed, and researchers lose access to these audiences. But

566
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: unless your issue catches the attention of a journalist or

567
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: you know, someone at Meta, you might never regain access

568
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: to your account. And so I really think that that

569
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: is the sort of so what here that Meta is

570
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: doing this to sort of not explicitly discourage organizations and

571
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: advocates and people from posting this kind of information on

572
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: their platform, while saying the opposite, because it is going

573
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: to have a silencing effect.

574
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 4: You know, nobody wants to risk.

575
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: Losing their entire platform, years and years and years of

576
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 2: content and research and resources they've collected.

577
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, no one that's going to want to take that risk, right.

578
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: It's interesting that their policy with like the things that

579
00:30:54,680 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: we're going to actually moderate is about terror and gain

580
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: and child endangerment, which is kind of a dog whistle

581
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: for what the Republican platform has been to for jump

582
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: to all of this morality level of issues, and that

583
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: the fact that Zuckerberg is like, you know what, Yeah,

584
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna adopt this too, but it's purely to protect

585
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: the people's We're just protecting the people's And again it

586
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: does seem like see, see we're doing like you, we

587
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: got your back. We also agree with this. This is

588
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: the only way or this is the best way to

589
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: control what information is being out there.

590
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 4: Yes, and if you actually I mean, this is a

591
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 4: whole other topic.

592
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: But when you look at the way so they say, okay,

593
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: we're only gonna be cracking down on content that creates

594
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 2: harm for kids, this dog whistle that they love.

595
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 4: To pull up.

596
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: And then when you look at the kind of harm

597
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: for kids that they either allow or advocate, part of

598
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: me is like, what what content are you actually taking down?

599
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if you all saw the recent reporting.

600
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: There was a very interesting report I think from the

601
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal where they had gotten their hands on

602
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: an internal policy document. So this is something that somebody

603
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: at Facebook said this is our policy, totally fine to

604
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: have in writing, no problem. That said that Meta's chatbots

605
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 2: were allowed to engage in sensual play with minors, so kids,

606
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 2: it was okay with Meta if they're chatbots engaged in

607
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: like sensual I won't say sexual, but I would say

608
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: I've seen some of the content and it is sort

609
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: of spicy that it's okay if they're if they're bot

610
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: to do that with children. And part of me is like,

611
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: I cannot believe you will put this in writing. I

612
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: cannot believe that someone at Facebook said, yeah, this is

613
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: a this is a document, I'll attach my name to this.

614
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 4: Well and behold.

615
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 2: When the Wall Street Journal asked about it, they were like,

616
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: oh no, we have since walked that policy back. That's

617
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: no longer our official, on the record. Our official on

618
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: the record policy is no longer that it's okay, hey,

619
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: for our bots to engage in sexy role play with kids.

620
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 4: We've walked that back. I bet you did walk that.

621
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: Back today as you asked this question.

622
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure it happened right after the Wall Street Journal

623
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: called them and asked them about it.

624
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 4: I'm so sure that it was like an hour later

625
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 4: we walked at that.

626
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: We got this now, No, we would never right.

627
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and I mean you were here Bridget, I

628
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: guess it was years ago and you were talking about

629
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: another kind of whistlebrower account of Facebook knowing it was

630
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: harming young girls.

631
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, Francis hogen Is is the whistleblower. Why we know that?

632
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's it is very galling for them to

633
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: be like, we want to protect the children, and then

634
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: you have these things that again directly show that clearly

635
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: you don't, not.

636
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: Really and to be clear, that is knowingly harming kids.

637
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 2: So I just think it's very interesting that Facebook gets

638
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: to say, well, we're too busy focusing on content that

639
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: harms kids to take down to really care that much

640
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: about what's going on with our abortion content. And that's

641
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 2: the content we're really working on.

642
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 4: But really we're not doing that either.

643
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, they get they really. It

644
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 2: just infuriates me, it really does. And I think the

645
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: issue really is to understand is in twenty twenty five,

646
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: when you have a question, When I have a question,

647
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 2: the first place I go is the internet, right we

648
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 2: all that's I think that is the reality for most

649
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: of us, and the internet and social media really has

650
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: become this lifeline for folks trying to get information about

651
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: the world around us, including our sexual and reproductive health.

652
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 2: And if folks are not able to find what they

653
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 2: need in their own communities, which I'm sorry to say

654
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 2: is becoming more and more of the reality these days,

655
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: they are going to go online to turn to social

656
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 2: media to fill those gaps. That access really matters most

657
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: for folks whose care is being cut off, like abortion

658
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 2: seekers or or queer youth living in states where healthcare

659
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: is under attack. And so if you have these social

660
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: media platforms kind of adding to a landscape where that

661
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: information is difficult to access, even if that information is

662
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: not against their rules, it's just making it that much

663
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 2: more difficult.

664
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 4: And these decisions really do matter.

665
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: I mean they some of them are life or death,

666
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: and they really have real world impact on people's lives.

667
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And unfortunately this is not this is part of

668
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 3: kind of a larger issue, kind of a larger attack,

669
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: gendered attack. Correct.

670
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: Yes, so this is something I find so interesting and

671
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: I actually should come back and do another episode on it.

672
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: In the middle of some research on it right now.

673
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 2: But the Center for Intimacy Justice, who's report I mentioned earlier.

674
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: They have another report that really shows how platforms routinely

675
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 2: suppress sexual health content for women and trans folks, while

676
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 2: leaving content aimed at supporting the sexual health of CIS

677
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: men largely untouched. Right, So, I know lots of people

678
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: who run businesses that are focused on the sexual health

679
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: of people who are not CIS men. Right, So, if

680
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: you have pelvic pain, if you need sex toys, like

681
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 2: all these different things that are aimed at people who

682
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 2: are not cisgender men. I have lots of friends who

683
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 2: run businesses like that. They are essentially not able to

684
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: do any kind of advertising on Facebook because Facebook does

685
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 2: not allow it. However, Facebook certainly allows information about the

686
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: sexual wellness of cisgender men. So we really have a

687
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: climate where, let's face it, mostly men who run these

688
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: platforms are able to determine whose sexual health is important

689
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 2: and who is not, whose healthcare is healthcare, and whose

690
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 2: is like something perverted that needs to be suppressed and

691
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: isn't allowed on their platform.

692
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now I'm thinking about it as I've been looking

693
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: at Instagram the amount of GLP one ads that I've

694
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: been getting, which is interesting because I thought that was

695
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: medication that you had to get their doctor is overwhelming.

696
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: But also on the vice versa of that is meles

697
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: you know, health sex health bs. Those are the two

698
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: ads that I get. Definitely nothing about women in birth

699
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: control rarely, there's a few that but it's very as

700
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: of late, I think zero. But the amount of GLP

701
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: one ads, I'm like, whoa, what is happening Instagram? I

702
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: thought we weren't allowing this.

703
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean the amount of ads I get specifically

704
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 2: for the a rectail dysfunction medication blue.

705
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 4: Chew, and the ads are do have you ever seen

706
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 4: these ads online?

707
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 2: The ads are clearly targeted at women, So it's a

708
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: cute woman being like, ladies, get your man to get

709
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: blue chee, blue shoe is gonna rock your world.

710
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 4: Get your man on blue shoe.

711
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: And that's a medication that is that is an arectail

712
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: dysfunction prescription medication.

713
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 4: But these platforms have just decide, oh no, that's okay,

714
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 4: that's that.

715
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: You can you can show that all day long, no problem,

716
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: you can boost it, you can put money behind it.

717
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: Totally fine again like and then the other part being

718
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: the weight loss medication, which slowly a lot more information

719
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: comes back, like oh, there's side effects. This might not

720
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: be as good as you think.

721
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 4: By the way, Oh yes, I'll just say yes. I'll

722
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 4: just say yes.

723
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: Well that's like as of late, and we know this

724
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 1: was coming. We knew this was coming because they've also

725
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: got variations that are not FDA approved, which I guess

726
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: means very little at this point in time. But again

727
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 1: that this is the rampant amount of ass like every

728
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: two like scrolls on Instagram that pops up, and on

729
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: Facebook too, which is I'm like, I don't even go

730
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: to Facebook. I just need to know people's birthdays. That's

731
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: all I need, That's all I really want. But again,

732
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: this seems to be like I thought once, if that

733
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: was your policy from Jump, then how are these as

734
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 1: paying you, I know, paying you millions? How are these okay?

735
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, their policy is totally inconsistent, seemingly arbitrary, and seemingly

736
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: biased against any kind of marginal identity. Like that's just

737
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: what's going on. They don't have any transparency. They say

738
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: one thing and do another. Uh, and that just is

739
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 2: the is the norm for them, and it's I really

740
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 2: do think that we should be talking about how you know, again,

741
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: let's be honest we're talking about mostly men, and mostly

742
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 2: not just men, like a specific kind of man, white moneyed,

743
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: coastal all of that. How we have given them so

744
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 2: much power to define what knowledge is acceptable, whose voices

745
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: are amplified, whose bodies are are left at risk, and

746
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: when platforms decide what can and can't be shared.

747
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 4: They are making.

748
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: Public health decisions with global consequences in ways that are

749
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: often contrary to public health, and then also reinforce systemic

750
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: and equalities. And so I just think, you know, this

751
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: is not just we're not just talking about like vague

752
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 2: policy language. I know that I have spent a lot

753
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 2: of time talking about that because it's a nois But

754
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: it's really about them deciding who gets to speak, who

755
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: gets seen, who gets access to the information that they

756
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 2: need to make decisions about their own health and bodies.

757
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: When Meta and these platforms silence accurate, essential sexual and

758
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: reproductive health information for not just enforcing inconsistent body rules,

759
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: I mean they are, but they're not just doing that.

760
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 2: They are also shaping people's lives and really deciding whose

761
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,959
Speaker 2: health matters and whose doesn't. And in a world where

762
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 2: we know the internet has really become this lifeline that

763
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 2: is not just annoying, although I am annoid, it is

764
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: dangerous because free speech shouldn't come with a disclaimer that

765
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: your body's safety is just optional and up to the

766
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: whims of Mark Zuckerberg.

767
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 3: No, I don't want to live in that world.

768
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: No, No, I mean I think about this all the time,

769
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 2: the ways that these individuals, like a handful of individual

770
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: mostly white guys, get to define what our worlds look

771
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 2: like in these very con create ways.

772
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 4: And I've never met Mark Zuckerberg.

773
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: Although I have met Cheryl Sandberg, but I've never met

774
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg. I don't want Mark Zuckerberg in charge of

775
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: deciding anything for my life. I don't think Mark Zuckerberg

776
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 2: and I have any common idea about what it means

777
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: to have a good, fulfilled life. I don't want him

778
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: designing what my future looks like.

779
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 3: I think that's very wise.

780
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: I mean that one movie made him look really pretty

781
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: much a dick.

782
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: So, oh my god, you mean The Social Network, one

783
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 2: of my favorite movies.

784
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 4: Oh my god. I don't want to I don't want.

785
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: To spoil it, but the ending of that movie is

786
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 2: my version of Citizen Kane.

787
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 4: Have you both have seen it?

788
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've not seen it. I've seen clips because I'm like,

789
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: I don't want even want to know, but he seems.

790
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 3: Like a dick.

791
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: Go home and watch it tonight. I know your birthday

792
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: is coming up, birthday? Is it a fun birthday watch?

793
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm such a nerd. I say it's a

794
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: fun watch. But if you're looking for a movie to

795
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: watch on your birthday, that might be that might.

796
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: Be the one.

797
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 3: It's a good it's a solid like, oh, yeah, you're

798
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 3: just a sad man ending.

799
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 2: Yes, you know what I'm talking about, you kids, Citizen Kane,

800
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: the sled moment at the end of that movie. It

801
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 2: haunts me, and I think if you haven't, I think

802
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: if you've seen it, it gives context for some of the

803
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: stuff we've talked about when it comes to Upberg today.

804
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: All right, without even seeing it, I was like, all right.

805
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 3: Also love it as such a dark soundtrack?

806
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 4: Who is it yet?

807
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,959
Speaker 2: Nobody does a haunting soundtrack like Trent Resnor Gone Girl

808
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: soundtrack soundtrack to Challenger is also Trent Resnor, And that's

809
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: the soundtrack I put on when I'm writing if you

810
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 2: need to focus and just like put on some headphones

811
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 2: and be like we are writing.

812
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 4: Let's do that is your soundtrack.

813
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 2: Rednor can write a dark movie soundtrack like Nobody's Business.

814
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 4: And I love that.

815
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 3: It was in this movie about this college kid trying

816
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 3: to get a girl to like Oh Lord, yes, okay,

817
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 3: well we'll revisit that later. We'll do uh maybe you

818
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 3: know we had a fun time trash talking some Hugh

819
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 3: Heffner that one time. We'll come back with a fun

820
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 3: thing for you, Bridget, and you can side because you

821
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 3: always bring us these heavy topics of your choosing. But

822
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 3: before then, thank you so much for being here. Where

823
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 3: can the good listeners find you?

824
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 2: You can find me on my podcast. There are no

825
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: girls on the internet. You can find me on Instagram.

826
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 2: I know it's owned by Max Zarckerberg. I don't like

827
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: it either. At Bridget Bryan DC, TikTok at Bridget Bran DC,

828
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: and on YouTube.

829
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 4: There are no girls on the internet.

830
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 3: Yes, go check all of that out if you have

831
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 3: it already, Listeners, if you would like to contact us,

832
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 3: you can you can email us at Hello stuff, I

833
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 3: never told you. You can find us on Blue Scott

834
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: most of podcast or Instagram and TikTok at Stuff. I

835
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: never told you. We're also on YouTube. We have new

836
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 3: merchandise ad Cotton Bureau, and we have a book you

837
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 3: can get wherever you get your books. Thanks always her

838
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 3: as suproducer with senior executive producer, my under contributor Joey.

839
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

840
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 3: Stuff never told this book should by Heart Radio. For

841
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 3: more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check out

842
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,479
Speaker 3: the heart Radio app, a podcast or where you listen

843
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: to your favorite shows.