1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: give them another onesie, don't give them a plastic toy 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: or god forbid a toy gun that's just going to 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: end up in the garage. Give them something that matters, 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: and what matters the most is protecting their child. What 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: do you love most in the world your children? What 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: will you do to protect them anything. I sat down 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: with these smartest people I know in the world on 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: matters of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators, 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: payment starting six ninety nine. Give that as a gift, 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: not another one ze. Find out how to protect your 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: child when you're out of the mall or the store, 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 1: or the grocery, in the parking lot at home. Find 20 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: out about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. I'd 21 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: rather have that any day of the week than a 22 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: plastic toy or God forbid a toy gun. Join Justice Nation, 23 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: go to crime Stops here dot com Crime Stories with 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. The vast majority of people have been supportive 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: and loving and understanding. And then as time has gone 26 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: on and that there's no you know, it's two o'clock 27 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: in the morning, you're going the subway. Subspies open twenty 28 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: four hours. Like people kill me when they say things 29 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: like that, because it's like, the subway is open twenty 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: four hours for a reason, so that when you're hungry 31 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: at night and you ain't got no food, you go 32 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: to subway the camera facing north. How is that my issue? 33 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: It feels like if I had said it was a 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: Muslim or a Mexican or someone black, I feel like 35 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: the doubters would have supported me a lot much more, 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: a lot more. And that says a lot about the 37 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: place that we are in our country right now, the 38 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: fact that we have these fear mongols, these people that 39 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: are trying to separate us, and it's just not okay. 40 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: It's just not okay. And for all of the people. 41 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: The next time that you see someone report something, maybe 42 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: well after the fact that it happened, and you say 43 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: to them, why are you waiting till now. Just remember 44 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: that mine was reported right away and look what has happened. 45 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: You are hearing TV star see Smilette talking to Superstar 46 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who 47 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: have doubted his story that he was attacked by I 48 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: believe it started as two white males. It changed at 49 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how 50 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: the story started. That also has changed. At two am 51 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop. 52 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: According to Jesse Smilette, everyone knows him big star on Empire. 53 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: He was attacked the purps through acid on him, put 54 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called 55 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: his manager and not nine one one. When he walked 56 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: back home. He then called nine one one. When police arrived, 57 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: they found him sitting there and roughed up and the 58 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: rope still around his neck. What is the truth. If 59 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not 60 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: the truth, will the Empire star go to jail for 61 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: pulling a hoax? When he talks about his detractors dividing people, 62 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this 63 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every 64 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: single one of them. This is about a potential hoax 65 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 1: on police or a horrible hate crime. I Nancy Grace, 66 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, 67 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: with me an all star panel of forensics expert, and 68 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: boy do we need her now. Karen Smith out of 69 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: the Florida jurisdiction, renowned criminal attorney, DARYLD Cohen, a former prosecutor, 70 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: joining me from Atlanta, Join, joining me from La psychoanalyst 71 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marsha and joining me right now crime online 72 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 1: dot COM's Ellen colorin Ek. Let's just start at the beginning. Now, 73 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: Typically when I'm hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything, 74 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, 75 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: and go back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't 76 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: feel like getting up and even going to the fridge 77 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: because I'm exhausted. But let's just start with a two 78 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: am subway sandwich call. Go. Well, it does appear that 79 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: Johnson small It had arrived to the airport in Chicago Leaps, 80 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: so I don't think this was a matter of him 81 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: waking up at the middle of the night and going 82 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: out to the freezing cold in the subway. It was 83 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: a very cold day though, and he's he tells police 84 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: that he's on his way home with his subway sandwich. 85 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: Wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait this 86 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: is in Chicago, correct, that's right? Yeah? So how cold 87 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: is it? Alan, g While you're out there sick, sitting 88 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: back with your latte with a twist and a pinch 89 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: of cinnamon and organic soy milk. Blah blah blah, Hey 90 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: look that up for me, if you don't mind, Alan, 91 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: What was the temperature exactly the day that Jesse Smollett, 92 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: the Empire Star went out at two a m. In 93 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: the morning to get a subway sandwich. Do I have 94 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:27,559 Speaker 1: Alang with me? Are you lounging somewhere off in the cyberspace? Ups? Ups? 95 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: What was the champ Alan, ellen klaurin it? We were 96 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: pretty sure it was below free temperatures. This was during 97 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: a very very very cold spell in Chicago. I don't 98 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: know the exact internet, doctor, Bethant. He must have been 99 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: very hungry, very hungry. Indeed, his tummy must have been 100 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: growling at two in the morning, because you know, Chicago 101 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: has those that windshell factor. So if it's twenty degrees 102 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: out regular temperature, the wind starts blowing. It's forty fifty 103 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: degree below Windshill. I did my undergraduate work there. Nobody 104 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: goes out at two. Daryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, 105 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: is gnashing his teeth and twitching his tail right now 106 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: because he thinks attempt has nothing to do with any 107 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,119 Speaker 1: of this. But that's where I always like to start Daryl, 108 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: not with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning 109 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: is he wakes up, according to his story, at two am, 110 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: and instead of getting left over peats out of the 111 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: fridge or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter, 112 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: maybe he goes out in forty below to get a 113 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: subway sandwich. See, I start right there. That's where I 114 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: start the story. And I think that's crazy. I'm not 115 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: saying it didn't happen. I just think that's Craig. Craig Well, 116 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if the subway was actually open at two 117 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: in the morning. Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I 118 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: love subway. Although I did have a mini boycott for 119 00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: a weed after Jared was, you know, busted on child porn. 120 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: I guess it was their spokesperson. But long story, short, 121 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, I mean, a defense attorney would argue that 122 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: has absolutely nothing to do with it. I don't think 123 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: it has anything to do with it. I think what 124 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: has to do with it is did it or did 125 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: it not happen? And as far as I can see 126 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: from all of the evidence that's been presented to me, 127 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: this guy is looking for more publicity for whatever the reason, 128 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: and he is about to get it. Well, he's getting it, 129 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: all right, Okay, ek let's just go with the premise 130 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: that it's true, because the official, the official statement from 131 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: Chicago PD is he is being treated as a victim 132 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: because he is a victim. Before we go one step further, 133 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: if Alan Jet would ever establish the temperature he's had 134 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: like three minutes. Now, have you ever heard of this thing? 135 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: It's called Google g O O G l E. You 136 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: just punch it in and you put in it right now. 137 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: I'm just a little a little slow out here, right, Okay, 138 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: he said it, Jackie did not say it. He said it. Guys. 139 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: I want to thank our partner. I want to thank 140 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: our partner making our program possible. Today. It's blink BLI 141 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: and K. 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They're 159 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: a great way to monitor your home, package deliveries or 160 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: whatever you want to monitor. Visit blink protect dot com, 161 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: Slash Nancy Blink protect dot com slash Nancy Blink b 162 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: l I n K Protect dot com slash Nancy Blink 163 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: is an Amazon company. Blink, thank you for being our 164 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: partner the phone. When did you, because as you said, 165 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: it was an acrid account of the timeline valuable information, 166 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: When did you make that information available to the police. 167 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: We gave, We had to give the phone records, which 168 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked 169 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone 170 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry, 171 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna do that. Why Because I have 172 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my 173 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: family's number, my cassinates number, my friend's numbers, my private emails, 174 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: my private songs, my private voice memos. I don't know 175 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: what that's going to be to hand over my phone for. 176 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been 177 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: put out there. You are hearing our friend superstar Robin 178 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: Roberts at ABC's GMA. She's awesome, and she is talking 179 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: to Jesse Smollette, the Empire star Everybody Loves Empire, the 180 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: Empire star who claims that at two am in the 181 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: morning in Chicago. He decided he was hungry, goes out 182 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: to subway sandwich, gets a sandwich, and is attacked by 183 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: two guys that threw acid on him or bleach bleach rapper, 184 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: a rope around his neck, attack and for being black 185 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: and homosexual. He manages to get home and call police. 186 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: He says, he calls his manager from the scene. Now 187 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: I think that is why they wanted the phone, to 188 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: confirm that he called his manager and not nine one one. 189 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: They are being clear why they want the phone, but 190 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: they want the phone, so I think distantly I'm hearing 191 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: the dingy ding ding of Alan Dieck. So Alan, do 192 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: you finally have the temperature? It was a bomby nine 193 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: degrees below zero? Ouch? Okay this morning I made the 194 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: twins and oh they hated it. Were two coats to 195 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: school because it was going to be forty degrees. This 196 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: is nine below Okay. Back to you, Kam, Sorry, we 197 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: haven't even gotten off the weather and the two am 198 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: sandwich call. Yes, subway was open. And answer to Darryl 199 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: Cohen's question, hold on real quick at Karen Smith journey 200 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: me forensics expert out of Florida, Why do they want 201 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: Why do they want Jesse Smolette's phone. Listen, when you're 202 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators, the best 203 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: way now in the world of social media and texting 204 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: is to get the phone of the victim. You can 205 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook and Twitter 206 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: and all of those things, and text messages especially. Listen, 207 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: if nothing happened, and I understand, you know, the privacy thing, 208 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 1: and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever that he 209 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: didn't want release, But the police are not. They're not 210 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: going to go into that. That's not their interests. Their 211 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: interest is looking at communications between Jesse Smollett or Smollett 212 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: and these other alleged perpetrators if there was any, if 213 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: there was any, the phone call that he made to 214 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: his manager, what time did he make it, where did 215 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: he make it from. All of those questions have to 216 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: be answered, and they have to have the device. They 217 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not how 218 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: life works anymore, not anymore. Giro Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, 219 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: former prosecutor, felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecutor. 220 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: I just missed him, Daryl. At the time when we 221 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: were when I first started prosecuting, we did not have DNA, 222 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: we did not have cell phone pinging. We did at 223 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: old school, okay, and we did it now with the 224 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is 225 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is 226 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: a problem to me. I don't have a problem with 227 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: anything else he's saying. But when he says find you 228 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: know what, I don't have to explain why it's ungry 229 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: at two am or goes out in sub zero below freezing. 230 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: That's a personal decision. But when you don't hand your 231 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: phone over to cops, that is a big red flag 232 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: to hey, with your private communications. If you have had 233 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a rope tied 234 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: around your neck out on the street, you're handing your 235 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: phone over because you want those people caught, right, I mean, 236 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: have I lost my mind on that one thing, Daryl, Well, Nancy, 237 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: I'm having a very big problem with finding out why 238 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: he would call his manager to the last time I checked, 239 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: was not a law enforcement person, was not a bodyguard. 240 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: Why would you not call the police, any of us. 241 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: Any of us, whether we're an actor, whether we're a lawyer, 242 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: whether an Indian chief, whatever we may be, we are 243 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: going to call the police if something bad happens. So yeah, 244 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: I've got a real problem with him not turning over 245 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: his phone. This guy is Jesse, but he thinks he's 246 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: Jesse James. He is having you were right now. He's 247 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: having a real problem. You probably stayed up all night 248 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: coming out that he's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay, 249 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to just pass over that one. 250 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: You know, Um, it's a big deal to me. Darryl, 251 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: and I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but 252 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: in my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor 253 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: because you could get a jury eating out of your hand. 254 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: You're always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts. 255 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: You knew it all when you went in front of 256 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: a jury. And in this case, when you have a 257 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem. 258 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: I don't care who he is. I don't care who 259 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care. 260 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: But if you don't cooperate with police. Then that is 261 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: a problem with me. What's your problem? There's a problem 262 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: with me as well. I've got another problem with that. 263 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: How in the world in the middle of the night, 264 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees it's about the 265 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: same frozen do you get mugged by two people who 266 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: know you're obviously black but you're homosexual? Really and you 267 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: well because he's a famous, famous TV star. So here's 268 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: the thing, this is another wrinkle in this to Ellen 269 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: k Lauren crime online dot Com and hold on, I'm 270 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: going to write this down. Here's the thing. So, if 271 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: they were targeting Jesse Smolette, okay, hold on, If they 272 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: were targeting him and this was a hate crime, how 273 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: do they know to be outside the subway at two 274 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: am with bleach and rope? Or were they just hanging 275 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: around to get a sandwich and they happen to have 276 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting Jesse 277 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: smolett ek, were they casing out his apartment? Why were 278 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: they there at two am? And I haven't even touched 279 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: on these two guys. Is two Nigerian guys that work 280 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: out in his apartment building Jim that know him, that 281 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: have been extras on the set of Empire, or at 282 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 1: least one of them has that have been questioned and 283 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to 284 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: do the attack. But first of all, I want to 285 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: get to the theory, Ellen Clauren. So the perps were 286 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: what waiting outside the subway sandwich shop for him? I mean, 287 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: what's the theory here? How did they know he was 288 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: going to be getting a sandwich at two am if 289 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: he was the one targeted for a hate crime? Well, Nancy, 290 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: they may have not known that he was going to 291 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse hasn't an 292 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: Instagram account, and he's a very active social media user, 293 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: and we learned over the weekend that he had been 294 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: in New York during the previous days and he was 295 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: on He had flown back to Chicago that night, but 296 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: his flight was delayed and he came in much later 297 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: than expected, and he posted a couple of Instagram stories 298 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: on his Instagram account talking about how his flight was delayed. 299 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: So someone who had to have had a little bit 300 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: of information about what was going on with him that day. 301 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: If they wanted to track his movements, they could to 302 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: a certain degree. Through his social media activity. Okay, let 303 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: me ask you this ek regarding Jesse Smilett. Now that 304 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: may make it make more sense that he was out 305 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: at two am? Was he was his flight so delayed 306 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: he was just getting home from the airport at say 307 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know the timing 308 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: of that? Because that makes although the Chicago airport is 309 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: full of food, but I don't know if it would 310 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: be open. The food stands will be opened that late 311 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: at night. So if he gets off a plane from 312 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his 313 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: apartment at one, he may very well be hungry. And 314 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: there is a theory out there that that is how 315 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: he communicated to set up the attack through posting, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, 316 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: that these two brothers could actually see his movements by 317 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: looking at at his Facebook or Instagram. So okay, but 318 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: do we know what time he got in from his flight. 319 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: We don't know exactly what time he landed or got 320 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: back to his apartment, but it does We don't have 321 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, But 322 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: it does seem as though it's likely that he did 323 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: stop off at his apartment first. But like you said, 324 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: he has been away the middle of the night. He 325 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: probably hasn't eaten. He's on the flight for longer than expected. 326 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: The food court could have been closed at the airport, 327 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: so he went to the closest closest place that he 328 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: could that he knew that would be open. Clime stories 329 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. What do you feel people need to 330 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: hear the most from the story? I think that what 331 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: people need to hear it's just the truth. It's just 332 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: the truth because everybody has their own idea. Some are 333 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: healing and some are hurtful. But I just want young people, 334 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: young members of the LGBTQ community, young black children, to 335 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: know how strong that they are, to know the power 336 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: that they hold, and they're little pinky. It's been two 337 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: weeks since that night left actor Jesse Smolett bruised but 338 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: not broken, and he's still processing the raw motions. Have 339 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: you ever been threatened before? Yeah? I get threatened all 340 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: the time on Twitter and Instagram and dms and things 341 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: like that. But you know, I'm a public figure. I'm 342 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: very outspoken, sometimes maybe too outspoken, but it's who I am, 343 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, So I get the idea of pissing people off, 344 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: that you're gonna rub people the wrong. In fact, a 345 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: week before the attack, police confirm a letter was sent 346 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: to the Fox studio in Chicago with threatening language, at 347 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: least with powdery substance likely. Tyler, all, do you think 348 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: there's a link between the letter and the attack? And 349 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: you did mention it to the police right away on 350 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: the letter? Absolutely, just because on the letter it had 351 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: a stick figure hanging from a tree with a gun 352 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: pointing towards it, with the words that said small at Jesse, 353 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: you will die black. There was no address, but the 354 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: return address said in big red you know, like caps maga. 355 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: Did I make that up too? You're hearing our friend 356 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: Robin Roberts at ABC's GMA speaking with Empire star Jesse Smillett. 357 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: And right now we know that the police investigation is 358 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: going on. Police chief has confirmed the two guys that 359 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: allegedly are identified in the video that police believe committed 360 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: the act the attack on Jesse Smilett have been apprehended, 361 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: questioned and released with no charges. What about these letters? 362 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: What are the letters that he claims he got leading 363 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: up to this attack? Threatening letters? Yes, one exactly one 364 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: week before the night of the alleged assaults, a letter 365 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: was sent to the studio where he filmed the show 366 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: Empire in Chicago, and it contained direct death threats, homophobic 367 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: and racist language. There's two things about the letter that 368 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: are coming up more recently in the discussion around this case. 369 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: One of those is that some unidentified sources who have 370 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: access to the set and may even worked with Jeff 371 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: have told CBS News that he was unhappy about the 372 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: response to the letter and the threat that he got, 373 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: that he felt that there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, 374 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: and that he was angry, and that they're questioning did 375 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: he set up this orchestrate this purported hate crime as 376 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: retaliation for that. The other thing that we're learning, and 377 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: again these are not official law enforcement statements. These are 378 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: unidentified sources you're talking to New thoughtlets. But we're learning 379 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: that the letter was made out of and you can 380 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: see it in the photos. The letter was written sort 381 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: of like a ransom type of letter, with cutout letters 382 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: from a magazine. And we're hearing that when investigators went 383 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: and rated the apartment of these two brothers who have 384 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: been identified as possibly involved Ausiness attack, they took away 385 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: a magazine. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall. 386 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: Are these threat letters like the kinds you see on 387 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: Agatha Christie and Erkil Parrot, like in the movies where 388 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: you cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick 389 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 1: him on a piece of paper instead of divulging your 390 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: hand and writing. And also we are learning for sure 391 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: that in a follow up visit by investigators, Smilette says, 392 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: the attackers mentioned something about this as Maga Country, which 393 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: relates back to the Trump campaign. Right, So the whole 394 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: situation is fluid, but I can tell you this. Remember 395 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: the runaway Bride when she lied about getting kidnapped, she 396 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: got to cut grass into community service out in the 397 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: public for I forgot how long other people have done 398 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: jail time, hard jail time for bringing police in on 399 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: a hoax of an investigation, because who knows what crimes 400 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: were really happening at the time of a hoax, and 401 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: instead of dealing with the real crime, cops are out 402 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: spending thousands and thousands of dollars and man hours trying 403 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: to solve a fake call. And this one, if it 404 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: is fake, is a whopper. Now, what do you make 405 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marsh the studio, the Empire Studio had assigned 406 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: him bodyguards, we've been told, but according to sources, he 407 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: was unhappy with the reaction to the letters. Does that 408 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: mean what they didn't get enough attention? What does that 409 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: mean to you, doctor Bethany, Well, you were mentioning the 410 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: runaway Bride and these crimes where we find out it's 411 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: a hoax in the end. And I don't know if 412 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: this was a hoax or not. But in forensic interviews, 413 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: one of the things we're trained to do with crime 414 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: victims is to find out if they're doing something called malingering. 415 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: Malingering is when you make up medical symptoms or you 416 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: exaggerate medical symptoms for some external reward. It's that simple. Now, 417 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: in twenty percent of criminal cases, malingering is involved in 418 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: some way, twenty percent of PI cases, as you can 419 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: imagine malingering, thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am, 420 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: the more I'm going to get some kind of reward 421 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: or attention or I'm going to get out of some consequence, 422 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 1: Like you're not going to send me to jail, I'm 423 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: not going to have to go to the military. So 424 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: what's so interesting to me about this story is the 425 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: exaggerate two aspects. The exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's 426 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope 427 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: around his neck. Wouldn't you pull a rope off? No, 428 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that 429 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ, 430 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light. He 431 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy 432 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct 433 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 1: the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to 434 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: know clearly what happens. So if I have a patient 435 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: in my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was, 436 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me. I 437 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: want to bring a lawsuit. You know, I'd say, well, 438 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I 439 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: just can't don't remember. So malingering is associated with very 440 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: fuzzy dk Is it true? Ek Ellen colorin crimaline dot 441 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: com investigative reporter that Smolette had been in New York 442 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: to audition for a role in the play that is 443 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we 444 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: know about the play for which he was auditioning? He 445 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: was at a reading. Actually it's in an audition. I 446 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: believe he's already part of the cast. But that's what 447 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: he was doing in New York. He was flying back 448 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: to He was flying back to Chicago from New York, 449 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: and he was in New York because he was doing 450 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: a reading of the script of this play. And the 451 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: character in the play is a person of color, it's 452 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in the 453 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: cave in the case of the fictional character. But he 454 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: is someone who the character someone who has been the 455 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: victim of hate crimes that, according to the reports that 456 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: we're reading, have some similarities in the crime that was 457 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: allegedly committed against him. Just that within hours of him 458 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: riding back to Chicago after the same wording, the same slurs, 459 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: awful slurs. If this is true, it is a hate crime. 460 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: I'm learning also Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former 461 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: prosecutor in felony court that he Smilett did not call police. 462 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: It was a close associate about forty minutes after the attack, 463 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: according to the New York Times, and I think that 464 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: was his manager. He did not call police, And when 465 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: Cox got to his place, he still was wearing the 466 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: rope around his neck. Help me, Well, I can help you, Nancy, 467 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: because it sounds to me like a setup. Did you 468 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: also pay attention to his voice. This is a guy 469 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: that's reading a script. This is not someone who's upset. 470 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: This is not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, 471 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: you're not going to be called home and gentle. Add 472 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: that to the cocktail. Add the fact that he's not 473 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: giving his phone to the police to the cocktail. Add 474 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: the fact that all he can do is say, oh 475 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: my gosh, I was attacked and this is terrible. But 476 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: he has a noose around his neck forty minutes later. Really, 477 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: this is a guy who was Look many times, Nancy, 478 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: people equate stars on television or on the big screen 479 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: with intelligence. Sorry, not the same. Some are, some are not. 480 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: This guy is reading a script. He saw a way 481 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: to get even, perhaps, he saw a way to make 482 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: more money. Perhaps, but what he didn't see is that 483 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: he's not as bright as he believes himself to be. 484 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: So he's not shakes take a listen to CBS Chicago 485 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: reporter Charley DeMar brothers Ola and Abel Osandaro captured on 486 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives their role in the reported 487 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: January twenty ninth attack on actor Jess Smolette, according to 488 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: multiple sources. Those sources say Smolette paid the brothers thousands 489 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: to carry out a staged attack. In attack, Smlette reported 490 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: to police saying two men slinging racial and homophobic slurs, 491 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: dowsing him in bleach and placing a rope around his neck. 492 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: The Osandaros were arrested and later released by Chicago police. Simultaneously, 493 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: the FBI is looking into a threatening letter Smolette received 494 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: just days before the reported attack. The words pieced together 495 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: by magazines and a drawing depicting a rope around a 496 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: stick figure's neck. Days later, Smolette said that's what happened 497 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: to him during the reported attack. During a raid of 498 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: the brothers home last week, only CBS to his cameras 499 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: were all out inside. Among the items, investigators walked away 500 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: with a magazine, a piece of paper, along with a 501 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: writing sample, and a wallet with stamps. Multiple sources say 502 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: Smolette was upset the threatening letter didn't receive a bigger reaction. 503 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: That's when he orchestrated the attack with the brothers. The 504 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: rope used by at least one of the brothers purchased 505 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: at the direction of Smilette. Sources say the brothers are 506 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: friends with Smolette, ola playing an extra on Empire. Last week. 507 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: In a televised interview, Smolette had this to say about 508 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: the scuffle with his attackers. He said, this Maga country 509 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: punches me right in the face, so I punched the 510 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: ass back. I noticed the rope around my neck, and 511 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: I started screaming. The brothers, who were first seen in 512 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: Greeny surveillance video, now coming into focus speaking exclusively with 513 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: me over the phone, saying we were not racist, we're 514 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: not homophobic, and we are not anti Trump. We were 515 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: born and raised in Chicago and our American citizens. You're 516 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: hearing our friend at CBS Chicago reporter Charlie Damar reporting 517 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: about what Chicago police took when they rated the brothers home, 518 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,719 Speaker 1: claiming that Smolette was upset that his threatening letters did 519 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: not get the attention he had assumed that they would. 520 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: I Nancy Gracis's crime stories thank you for being with us. 521 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: If this is a hoax, it's a whopper. People that 522 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: make false claims to police, much less to this extent, 523 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: usually land behind bars if they're regular mortals like all 524 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you get different treatment. 525 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: Jesse Smollett, superstar on the cast of Empire to Ellen 526 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: Lauren Crime Online dot Com investigator reporter where we have 527 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: all breaking crime in justice and use Ellen, what can 528 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: you tell me about these two guys. Everyone refers to 529 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: them as Nigerian. They're American, That's right, Nancy. They were 530 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: board and raised in Chicago. The reason I believe that 531 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: people are getting calling them Nigerians because they for reasons 532 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: that have not been explained and I do not understand, 533 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: apparently flew to Nigeria the day after the attack and 534 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: came back to Chicago last week where they were met 535 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: with investigators at the airport. That has not been explained 536 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: why that happened or if it has anything to do 537 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: at all with the alleged assault. UM. And I also 538 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: wanted to point something else out since we're talking about 539 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: the rope and the and the phone. UM. A lot 540 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: of the things that have come up in recent days 541 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: really don't look look good like they look very suspicious, 542 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: and and things are starting to really maybe fall apart 543 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: here in this story. But a couple of things I 544 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: think are not suspicious that happened here. I don't think 545 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: it's suspicious that he did not want to hand over 546 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: his entire phone immediately. He's a public figure, he's a celebrity. 547 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: You who had allen? Have you ever been attacked at 548 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: two am? Had a rope tied around your neck and 549 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: bleach port on you? Because if you have, I'd like 550 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: hear about that, okay, because if that happens to you 551 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: and your life is in danger, and cops say we 552 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,919 Speaker 1: need your phone, you go here whatever I mean? From 553 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: the cop pulls me over, which has happened? I say, 554 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: whatever here, take it all? Okay? He just plays lead 555 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: my children behind whatever. I don't want a problem with 556 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: a cop. Okay. Nobody should be above the law. And 557 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: if they want your phone, give your phone. But you 558 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: know what, that's you and this is me, So go 559 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: ahead with your analysis, okay. But what I wanted to 560 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: also say is that I believe he did agree to 561 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 1: hand over the phone records. Whether he's done that or 562 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: not yet, we don't know about the rope. What we 563 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: heard him in the beginning of this narrative was that 564 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: he kept the rope around his neck as because he 565 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to sort of disturb the scene and he 566 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: wanted the responding officers to see what had been done. 567 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: That was the explanation for the rope of being left. 568 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: You know what, I hear you. And he could have 569 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: claimed that he did not want his DNA his I 570 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: don't think you get prints off rope, but any of 571 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: his fire was your DNA on the rope or to 572 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: ruin any evidence on the rope, So I can understand that. 573 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records, 574 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ 575 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over 576 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: and the cops rejected them. The cops rejected them, Daryl Cohen, 577 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying that 578 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: they were so heavily redacted that they were basically I'm 579 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: no use. What about handing over your phone records the 580 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: cop and you redact them. Oh, come on, Nancy, this 581 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: is absurd. If you have a victim of a crime, 582 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: First of all, I want to go back to the 583 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: net of the noose. If I've got a noose around 584 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: my neck, oh my god, I'm going to rip that 585 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: off as quickly as I possibly can, because I am 586 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: freaked out. This guy was not hurt. This guy was 587 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: not attacked. He is looking for publicity. He may have 588 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: won an Emmy for Empire, but the news outlets in 589 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: Chicago are going to win a news Emmy for their 590 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: coverage of this guy who doesn't recognize the truth from 591 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,959 Speaker 1: a lie. He is scripted, and he's gotten himself into 592 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: a problem. He's a walking living soapy problems. Well, the 593 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: whole reason they got interested in the phone records to 594 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: start with is that Smolette said two cops he was 595 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: on the phone with his manager at the time of 596 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: the attack, and that the manager says he heard the 597 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they want to 598 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: authenticate that that call was in fact made. They Askemalant 599 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: for the records about two weeks before they got a 600 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: PDF file. Now. Police also say their cameras everywhere in 601 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: the area, But there is a sixty second gap in 602 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 1: the video where you don't see the Empire start there's 603 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: no video of the actual attack. I've looked at shots 604 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: of the video and you see two persons of interest 605 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: in surveillance footage. Now, this is what is telling to me, 606 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. These two guys that everybody calls Nigerians, 607 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: they're Americans, let's be very clear on that. Who take 608 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: off to Nigeria the day after the attack. They work 609 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: out in his building. At least one of them does 610 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: in the gym in Smolett's building, his apartment building. One 611 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,919 Speaker 1: of them has been an extra on the set. They're 612 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders. I've seen their 613 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: photos and I never see them wearing a shirt. I 614 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: mean not judging, but they are totally buff. So you 615 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: can see they work out all the time. They take 616 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,479 Speaker 1: off for Nigeria. The day after the attack, they come back, 617 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: they're met by the cops, they are questioned, they are released, 618 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, no charges, and after meeting with them, cops 619 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolett. What does that 620 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: say to you, doctor Bethany. Well, first of all, the 621 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: trip to Nigeria, they're now thirty five hundred dollars richer 622 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: because they just got paid for the attack, right, And 623 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: some people do not think ahead when they collude with 624 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: somebody who's drawing them into a crime. So they thought, 625 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: may have fought, no big deal, we'll rough them up, 626 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: we'll put a rope around his neck, we'll take a vacation, 627 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: we'll come back, this will have all blown over. But 628 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: you know what, they talked to the police, and as 629 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: I was saying about malingering, the whole story does not 630 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and so the 631 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,919 Speaker 1: police are going to look to Jesse. And I would 632 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of this When 633 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: people malinger symptoms? You know, I was roughed up, I 634 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: was a victim. They do it for a reward. Is 635 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: he trying to up his Twitter following? Is he negotiating 636 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,799 Speaker 1: a contract right now and he wants to prove to 637 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: the EP of the show that he is the center 638 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 1: of a national news situation. Is he wanting to take 639 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: somebody else's role in empire? You know, I think that 640 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: there's a reward there somewhere, And if you follow that trail, 641 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: the whole thing begins. Well, I've been looking and researching 642 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: and following and asking questions. According to CBS Chicago, who 643 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: is there on the scene, coots want to speak to 644 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: Smilette again based on quote new evidence they learned from 645 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 1: the two friends the two guys. Now, according to CBS, 646 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: two sources told them that Smolette pay the two guys 647 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: thirty five hundred dollars to stage the attack. But let's 648 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at CBS. This is 649 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: Jeff Glore talking about Wait, are we playing one or two? 650 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Okay, hold on, this is CBS This Morning 651 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: anchor John Dickerson. Take a listen to what they see 652 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: on the video. Police are looking for two potential persons 653 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: of interest in impossible hate crime against to Jesse Smolette. 654 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: Police say a surveillance camera took these images of the 655 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 1: two men on the night. Smolette says he was beaten. 656 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: The star of the TV drama Empire said his masked 657 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: attacker attackers yelled racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is 658 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: tracking the investigation. Investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance 659 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: those images to provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men 660 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: are not considered suspects, but the police do want to 661 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,919 Speaker 1: know who they are and what they were doing when 662 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: Smolette says he was attacked. Sources tell CBS News the 663 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 1: two figures seen in these dark surveillance images were also 664 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: spotted sitting on a bench when Jesse Smolette walked past 665 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: them across the street. They then appear to get up 666 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: and follow him, although the three of them are never 667 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: seen on camera together. About a minute later, investigators say, 668 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: another security camera captured Smolette returning to his apartment with 669 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 1: a noose tied around his neck. The rope was untied 670 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: but still on his neck when police arrived, forty five 671 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: minutes after he says he was attacked. You're hearing our 672 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: friends at CBS, So let me close with this thought. 673 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: When I was a new prosecutor, I worked on one 674 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: of the very first hate crimes I had ever seen. 675 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: We didn't even call him hate crimes then murderers of 676 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 1: black gay men across the city of Atlanta. That case 677 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: and I wrote the appeal for it and argued it 678 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,280 Speaker 1: to the Georgia Supreme Court was held. That conviction was held. 679 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: Gay blackmails all over the city of Atlanta, victimized simply 680 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: because their color and their sex orientation. If this is 681 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: a hate crime. Let the perps rot in hell. If not, 682 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: Jesse Smillett, You've got some explaining to do. Nancy Gray's 683 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: crime story, signing off, Get my friend. The search is 684 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: on for a missing mom. Savannah Spurlock, just twenty three 685 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: years old, vanishes. It's the first night she goes out 686 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: after giving birth to infant twins. Her first night out, 687 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: she goes to a restaurant bar. She's seen leaving. I 688 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: think she looks incoherent or dazed as she leaves. Joining 689 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: me right now, Commander of the Cajun Co Search and 690 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,760 Speaker 1: Rescue Tony Wade is with me. Commander Wade, please tell 691 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,879 Speaker 1: me about the search for Savannah Spurlock Well Stadley. At 692 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: this point all of the search and rescue teams have 693 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,720 Speaker 1: pulled out. Richmond PDE is continuing with some search efforts. 694 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: You know what kind of all I'll stand by at 695 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: this point for some new leads and new case Saturday, 696 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: the case of just you know, the search efforts that 697 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: have gone cole were just no new information. Company in law. 698 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,800 Speaker 1: You know, Savannah Spurlock goes missing that evening, her first 699 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 1: night out after giving birth to twins. She also has 700 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,240 Speaker 1: a four year old son. Noah. You know what's interesting 701 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: to me to Tony Wade, commander of the Cajun Coach 702 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: Search and Rescue, Tony, is that we've got her on 703 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 1: video leaving with two guys. It turns out there's a 704 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: third one in the car with her. They go to 705 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 1: a rural area, a home. The guys say she was there, 706 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: but she left at some point the following morning. They 707 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: can't tell us what time. They can't tell us how 708 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,919 Speaker 1: she left. She didn't have her car, it was still 709 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: parked at the restaurant that's where the trail runs cold. 710 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: Tell me about your efforts with me, Commander Tony Wade 711 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 1: of the Cajun Coach Search and Rescue. You know, you 712 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 1: know that doesn't disturbing goes that she just disappeared like 713 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: her phone had been turned off about eight thirty that morning, 714 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: so we know she didn't call it for a ride. 715 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: You know. We put extensive search hours into the area 716 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: surrounding the rural area where she was, and it's turned 717 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,919 Speaker 1: up new evidence whatsoever. It's very disturbing at this point 718 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 1: that we just don't know, you know, how she left, 719 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: if she left her on her own. We know she 720 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 1: didn't leave walking temperatures with oh, she wouldn't dressed for it, 721 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of mysteries around in that portion of 722 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,880 Speaker 1: it is to acts exactly what time she would have 723 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 1: left the home. You know, no witnesses saw her leave 724 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 1: or you know, or anything else. People at the home 725 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 1: said she woke come up one dner where she was, 726 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,320 Speaker 1: and then they told her they went back to sleetman 727 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,399 Speaker 1: said when she woke up, she was gone. I think 728 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: there's positively a lot of holes in that story. Oh 729 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot of holes in that story. But with 730 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: nothing to go on, the police have to rely on 731 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: people like you, Commander Way, to try to find some 732 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: trace of the missing mom. Savannah Spurlock, if you have information, 733 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: please dial eight five nine six two four seven seven 734 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: six repeat eight five nine six two four four seven 735 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: seven six. We're talking about a beautiful young mom who 736 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 1: just gave birth to twins, Savannah Spurlock. As Commander Tony 737 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,320 Speaker 1: Wade has just told us a search group heading back 738 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: home after spending hours and hours in Gerard County searching 739 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,320 Speaker 1: for the Richmond mother of four, they have found no sign. 740 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 1: I guess the good news from that is they know 741 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: where she is, not Tony Wade. So by process of elimination, 742 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: what does that mean to you? Well, you know, we 743 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: haven't given up hope that she's maybe out there a 744 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 1: lot somewhere. You know, we haven't found any just say 745 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 1: she's not, you know, and we've cleared We've cleared miles 746 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: and miles and miles of land trying to try to 747 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,320 Speaker 1: any spread of and you know, like you said, we 748 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,080 Speaker 1: know where she is, not we just don't know where 749 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: she is. Uh, you know, we're we're frantic wanting a 750 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 1: new tip, for a new league to come in that 751 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 1: we can give us a search direction because we'll go 752 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,200 Speaker 1: right back. You know, the Richmond Police Department has worked 753 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: hand in hand with us since we since we were 754 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 1: contact to the help of the case something. They're doing 755 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,839 Speaker 1: an outstanding job. But just just everything is running into 756 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 1: dead ends and it's frustrating everybody involved. There's just no 757 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: new information coming in. And we know somebody out there 758 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,799 Speaker 1: and knows something. We just urge any small us tip 759 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 1: call us and maybe just what we need. Go to 760 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: crime online dot com and see the video of Savannah 761 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,760 Speaker 1: Spurlock as she leaves that restaurant that night with two guys. 762 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,719 Speaker 1: We find out a third was in the car. It 763 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: reminds me so much, Commander Tony Wade, off when Natalie 764 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: Holloway got in the car leaving Carlos and Charlie's bar 765 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: down in Aruba, never seen again. Now, these guys, she 766 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: did not know them before that night, did she, Tony, Well, 767 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: we haven't novel established for a fact that she didn't 768 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,920 Speaker 1: know them, But you know, during the FaceTime conversation with 769 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: her mom, her mom didn't recognize any of the individuals, 770 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 1: and she stated that she knew pretty much all of 771 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: Savannah's friends. So we haven't come to the point conclusion 772 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: to prove in one way or the other day she 773 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,319 Speaker 1: didn't know them priorly. If she did, I don't think 774 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: they were extremely close friends. Every indication says that she 775 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,000 Speaker 1: met them that night. That's still one of the many 776 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,920 Speaker 1: questions that we have in this case. You know, another 777 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: thing that bugs me, Commander Wade, is that if you 778 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 1: look at the photo that we have in crime online 779 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,120 Speaker 1: dot Com, it looks like she's got her pocketbook on 780 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,160 Speaker 1: her shoulder, but it's hanging wide open. To me, she 781 00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,439 Speaker 1: looks cold, she doesn't have a coat on, she looks 782 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: Dishovel old and more than that. In her face, she 783 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 1: looks disoriented, like just a blank stare. I'm wondering if 784 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 1: something was slipped in her drink. Commander Wade, how does 785 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,840 Speaker 1: it affect you when you have to leave a search 786 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: without finding the person. That's extremely difficult on us. You know, 787 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,319 Speaker 1: we can locate something or even some then we can 788 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 1: leave knowing that, you know, we help them some way 789 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,120 Speaker 1: in the case. And leaving with this many unasked questions 790 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: and nothing. It's really hard on us because we get 791 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 1: home and we beat ourselves up over it. Did we 792 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,239 Speaker 1: do our job correctly? Did our dogs key on something 793 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,280 Speaker 1: that we missed? We second guess ourselves really really hard. 794 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,840 Speaker 1: It's hard on it really is like it causes a 795 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 1: lot of grief and a lot upset and that we 796 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: just don't know and we go out to client answers 797 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,839 Speaker 1: and we can't find anything. It's troublesome to us. If 798 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: you have information on missing Savannah's for a mother of four, 799 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 1: dial eight five nine six two four four seven seven six. 800 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Commander Way.