Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zima coming to you from our
Speaker 1: home office in Austin, Texas, and we're talking about daddies.
Speaker 1: We are talking about old daddies today.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's gonna be gooking so many different ways.
Speaker 1: Don't call me daddy, Zaddy. We are talking about al Pacino,
Speaker 1: Robert de Niro, new dads, A couple of young new
Speaker 1: dads on the take right now.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: These stories have kind of coincided, which is really weird.
Speaker 1: I think part of the story and why this is
Speaker 1: so captivating LZ is they are friends, co stars. Those
Speaker 1: two are kind of synonymous.
Speaker 2: With each other.
Speaker 1: With each other is Hollywood legends.
Speaker 2: Back to the movie Heat, back to that they were,
Speaker 2: you know, both the Godfather series. We both looked at
Speaker 2: they were I don't know how many movies they've done together.
Speaker 2: They just did The Irishman together with March right.
Speaker 1: One of the most legendary cinematic moments was when the
Speaker 1: two of them were in the same scene in the
Speaker 1: movie Heat, and everyone talks about that scene and breaks
Speaker 1: it down. So these two are synonymous with each other.
Speaker 2: They are longtime friends. And look, I've interviewed them both.
Speaker 2: They have a real love for each other. I don't
Speaker 2: know if they intended to do this together, but yes,
Speaker 2: part of what's been grabbing headlines. We talked about Robert
Speaker 2: de Niro, the news that he was going to become
Speaker 2: a dad at seventy nine, and now just then, just
Speaker 2: a few days later, the news dropped that is bal
Speaker 2: Al is going to become a dad at eighty three.
Speaker 2: And actually Al has just weighed in. We're sitting here
Speaker 2: on a Tuesday, and al Pacino has just spoken out
Speaker 2: about the news that he's expecting a baby with his
Speaker 2: twenty nine year old girlfriend twenty nine. He's spoken about
Speaker 2: it for the first time. He told The Daily Meal
Speaker 2: that it is quote very special, he said, it always
Speaker 2: has been. I've got many kids, but this is really
Speaker 2: special and interesting choice of words here, he said, but
Speaker 2: this is really special coming at this time.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I don't know that means like the relationship he's in
Speaker 2: or his age, but I mean, you know, when you
Speaker 2: break it down, it's like this article I'm looking at,
Speaker 2: of course notes his other children, because Al says I've
Speaker 2: got many kids.
Speaker 3: He has.
Speaker 2: Three other kids and one of them is his thirty
Speaker 2: three year old daughter. So he's got a thirty three
Speaker 2: year old daughter and he's having a kid with his
Speaker 2: twenty nine years oldlfriend.
Speaker 1: His daughter is four years older than the baby mama.
Speaker 1: No judgment, No, I'm just trying to get the math right.
Speaker 2: Just math speaks for itselfish.
Speaker 1: I want to chew that up and swallow it and
Speaker 1: think about it for a minute.
Speaker 2: So of course, people have a lot of comments on this,
Speaker 2: and when you and I were talking about the Robert
Speaker 2: De Niro News, you said you felt that becoming a
Speaker 2: dad at this age was very selfish.
Speaker 1: Look, I try to lead with grace and understanding and
Speaker 1: try to not judge and take it all in. From
Speaker 1: my perspective, it just there is a there's a selfish
Speaker 1: element to it when you were that age, just because
Speaker 1: of the percentages that you will not be alive much longer.
Speaker 1: Youish that that is one hundred percent short, you're going
Speaker 1: to die.
Speaker 2: You know what is I'm just kind of realizing as
Speaker 2: we're sitting here talking about this, and I am going
Speaker 2: to get maybe a little emotional for a second, but
Speaker 2: we're bringing two very different perspectives. Because you are obviously parent.
Speaker 2: I am a step parent, but I so I really
Speaker 2: try to defer to you sometimes and know that maybe
Speaker 2: I don't have that blood children of my own perspective,
Speaker 2: but I come at it from the view of my
Speaker 2: dad died suddenly when he was in his early fifties.
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties, my sister was nineteen, my
Speaker 2: brother was fourteen. And I think a silver lining of
Speaker 2: that is that I've looked at parenting as being like,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, all a kid needs,
Speaker 2: in my mind, is to know that they were loved,
Speaker 2: like to know the love of a parent. And I
Speaker 2: do totally understand if a parent is so old that
Speaker 2: their kid like doesn't remember them, that's not great. But
Speaker 2: I do think that I don't know. I guess I
Speaker 2: think like, if you knew that your parent loved you
Speaker 2: and they gave you a good foundation, that's what's most important.
Speaker 2: I hope Alan Bob are around to give the kids
Speaker 2: a good foundation.
Speaker 3: Rus too.
Speaker 1: Not wishing you all on either one of them. And
Speaker 1: as you said, tomorrow is promised to nobody. There are
Speaker 1: many people listening who lost a parent. Sitting here with Elsie,
Speaker 1: as she just said, lost her dad at a very
Speaker 1: young age. And he was fifty one, and he was young,
Speaker 1: and so he didn't get to go through a lot
Speaker 1: of the steps that he would have dreamt of. That
Speaker 1: I dream of watching your kids, you know, walk across
Speaker 1: the stage, walk down the aisle, et cetera, enjoy their
Speaker 1: first job, and hopefully someday have grandkids. But when you
Speaker 1: are starting this journey at eighty years old, if I
Speaker 1: kind of average their ages together, just you're you're putting
Speaker 1: yourself behind the eight ball in a way that whether
Speaker 1: you do pass die or just you're to the point
Speaker 1: where the kids are changing your diapers and you're no
Speaker 1: longer changing theirs. That's just I don't know. It feels
Speaker 1: like you're you're missing a part of this. And I
Speaker 1: guess the question is why, Like what is the purpose?
Speaker 2: Well, I would imagine the purpose is that their partner
Speaker 2: wants to have a child. I'm right, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Or maybe these guys do want did want to become
Speaker 2: dads again. Maybe they love being parents of new children.
Speaker 2: But you know, Al Pacino's girlfriend's twenty nine, Robert De
Speaker 2: Niro's is I'm going to try to look this up
Speaker 2: again to make sure I get it right. But I
Speaker 2: believe his partners in her forties. And Robert de Niro
Speaker 2: had also spoken out about the news of him expecting
Speaker 2: a baby, and he said, you know that he actually
Speaker 2: now understands family dynamics better as an older dad, and
Speaker 2: so he thinks hester be able to bring what he's
Speaker 2: learned to the table.
Speaker 1: There is a lot of that, you know. I look
Speaker 1: at myself now at fifty one, compared to when I
Speaker 1: started as a dad, when I was thirty. I'm older, wiser,
Speaker 1: I have a lot more life experience. I can give
Speaker 1: my kids a lot better advice than I could back then.
Speaker 1: But I just there was a time in place, and
Speaker 1: I am I get it. I'm a little traditional. I
Speaker 1: was excited to coach little Lee, go to dance recitals,
Speaker 1: be a part of just that active life, be on
Speaker 1: the beach and jump in the waves with my daughter
Speaker 1: and my son. There's a part of life that I
Speaker 1: think it's good to have that young, younger energy. Well,
Speaker 1: and maybe my opinion will change. We have a guest
Speaker 1: on today and that we're going to jump into pretty soon.
Speaker 1: Maybe she will change my perspective. And we wanted a
Speaker 1: very objective view.
Speaker 2: We wanted an objective view. We wanted the information because
Speaker 2: I think this news is raised. It's gotten people talking
Speaker 2: a lot just about parenting in general. I mean, are
Speaker 2: so many like also stories like Nick Cannon having I
Speaker 2: think over a dozen children at this point having babies
Speaker 2: in secret, Elon Musk saying that, you know, he's worried
Speaker 2: about how the birth rate is declining. There's been a
Speaker 2: lot of pop culture celebrity talk about having kids, having
Speaker 2: a lot of kids, and having kids older.
Speaker 1: Lately, freezing eggs and is it tougher to get pregnant.
Speaker 4: So we are.
Speaker 2: Bringing on an expert so that we don't get into
Speaker 2: the armchair birthing.
Speaker 1: I might not be a doctor, I may have played
Speaker 1: one on TV, but I think we need a house call.
Speaker 1: We need a real doctor in the house. Joining us
Speaker 1: now doctor Christine Sterling, at Board certified OBGYN and founder
Speaker 1: of Sterling Parents. There is so much to talk about.
Speaker 1: First of all, doctor Stirling, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. We are excited to get this professional, objective
Speaker 1: take from a doctor. On first, have you heard about
Speaker 1: the Robert de Niro al Pacino story?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: I have, Yes, Okay, so both gentlemen obviously are having
Speaker 1: children at a very point.
Speaker 3: Out that al Pacino because I just I was doing
Speaker 3: a little more like deeper reading into it all.
Speaker 4: One thing I didn't realize and could be true for
Speaker 4: De Niro as well.
Speaker 3: So Al's eighty three, Bob is seventy nine, I think, yes,
Speaker 3: And al Pacino is now having a child with a
Speaker 3: woman who is younger than his daughter. And so the
Speaker 3: woman he's having a child with is twenty nine. The
Speaker 3: woman Robert de Niro is having his childhood is a
Speaker 3: bit older. I think she's in her forties. And I
Speaker 3: just was like, you know, you start to think of
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving and what it looks like, and I have no judgment,
Speaker 3: Like I'm like, is the more the merrier, all the
Speaker 3: love for a family. But like I mean, doctor, I
Speaker 3: guess first because I have specific questions of course, but
Speaker 3: what's just your initial reaction as a doctor when you
Speaker 3: hear about people men parenting. I don't know that women can,
Speaker 3: but men parents in their seventies and eighties.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, listen what you said I really agree with.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's who am I to really judge, you know,
Speaker 5: But you know, of course, from a medical perspective, there
Speaker 5: are some considerations we have for advanced paternal age, and
Speaker 5: we can definitely dive into some of the things that
Speaker 5: we think about when we hear about a man who's
Speaker 5: having children at a later age, and I think that,
Speaker 5: you know, it's really difficult for me to kind of
Speaker 5: separate out that that doctor self and also that parent self,
Speaker 5: because I mean, I have I have an abundance of
Speaker 5: compassion for all people involved. I just think of myself.
Speaker 5: My greatest fear I'm a mother of free children. My
Speaker 5: greatest fear in the whole world is not being there
Speaker 5: long enough for my kids. You know. It's that loss.
Speaker 5: And so the I just picture, you know, myself being
Speaker 5: the idea of having a child in my eighties would
Speaker 5: just be really jarring because you know that there's a
Speaker 5: very good chance that you're not going to be there
Speaker 5: for that child.
Speaker 4: And this is something.
Speaker 3: Chris and I differ on doc. We talked about it
Speaker 3: a little bit on another podcast when the Robert and
Speaker 3: erom neews broke. I'm like, hey, you know, they got
Speaker 3: the money to take care of these kids, they got
Speaker 3: the love.
Speaker 4: Chris thinks it's very selfish.
Speaker 1: Well, I just think like people will say that, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: they're rich, they have help that doesn't raise a child.
Speaker 1: Money has never raised a child, and they are going
Speaker 1: to be without a parent. Even if they live exponentially
Speaker 1: longer than any other human being, they're still going to
Speaker 1: die fairly young in this child life. Yeah, and money
Speaker 1: won't feel that. And money doesn't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think, you know, there's
Speaker 5: how we define the person who becomes you know, your
Speaker 5: parent isn't always the person who has contributed the genetic material.
Speaker 5: And so I think that with somebody, you know, particularly
Speaker 5: in the case of Roberts Neiro, this is a twenty
Speaker 5: nine year old woman, the very likely see yeah, sorry,
Speaker 5: with al Pacino, Yeah, the likelihood is that this is
Speaker 5: this is a person who you know, is going to
Speaker 5: have another partner who could potentially, you know, fill that
Speaker 5: fill that role of a parent, because it's very oftentimes
Speaker 5: that the person who does a lot of the parenting
Speaker 5: is not the person who was, you know, the genetic
Speaker 5: biological parent.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I mean, I'm fifty one, so I know
Speaker 1: it's still viable now, but when I'm seventy nine eighty
Speaker 1: is that do you see a lot of men at
Speaker 1: that age being able to.
Speaker 4: Asking about the quality of the genetic material.
Speaker 1: Are you still firing bullets at eighty years old? You are?
Speaker 5: You are? I mean, it's you know, it's fundamentally the
Speaker 5: production of s sperm is fundamentally different from the production
Speaker 5: of eggs. So so women have our highest number of
Speaker 5: our people who have ovaries have our highest number of eggs.
Speaker 5: Actually when we're in utero, when we are inside you know,
Speaker 5: our mother and you.
Speaker 1: Were born with all the eggs you're ever.
Speaker 5: Going to have, yeah, exactly, whereas sperm is produced throughout
Speaker 5: you know, so so yes, you you know, men can
Speaker 5: potentially you know, impregnant people until their last day on
Speaker 5: this that that is a possibility.
Speaker 1: I mean, my morbid curiosity is, you know, how are
Speaker 1: these children conceived?
Speaker 3: Biac That's my guess, right, Look, I think, Alan, Bob,
Speaker 3: these are guys with sweat.
Speaker 4: I'm not questioning their ability to perform.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering about the quality of the guys, like just
Speaker 3: the quality of creed.
Speaker 4: As men get older.
Speaker 5: You have a wonder we it I mean essentially what
Speaker 5: we because we do see an increase in the risks
Speaker 5: of some genetic conditions and some complications of pregnancy associated
Speaker 5: with advance paternal age, which by the way, is not
Speaker 5: uniformly and universally you know, agreed upon what age is
Speaker 5: truly advanced paternal age. But you know, yes, as we
Speaker 5: get older are our DNA degrades. So we see a
Speaker 5: lot of conditions that are slightly increased or you know,
Speaker 5: significantly increase in men who are having children when they're
Speaker 5: forty enough, certainly forty five and fifty en up.
Speaker 1: Essentially, because we talk a lot about as women get
Speaker 1: older what that means, but it is interesting that the
Speaker 1: opposite of that is what it means when men are older,
Speaker 1: and what are the genetic consequences of that? Very interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much how many of those studies
Speaker 1: have been done to see what the consequences are when
Speaker 1: men are older.
Speaker 5: You know, it's tricky too because a lot of times
Speaker 5: when you have an older father, you also have an
Speaker 5: older mother, so it can be difficult to kind of
Speaker 5: tease out, well, where's the contribution here, But there are
Speaker 5: studies that show, you know, an increased risk of some
Speaker 5: genetic conditions. One of the ones that we know the
Speaker 5: most about that has the most data supporting it something
Speaker 5: called achondroplasia, which is the most common form of dorphism
Speaker 5: that is very clearly linked with advanced paternal age, so
Speaker 5: forty five and up. And then there's there's other genetic conditions. Interestingly,
Speaker 5: actually just stational diabetes, which is a condition of the
Speaker 5: pregnant person is increased when the father or the sperm
Speaker 5: donor is forty five years interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, Doc, it does seem that there's just an
Speaker 3: irony in this because it's like the younger our bodies are,
Speaker 3: the healthier they are to have kids, but the older
Speaker 3: we are, the better our for having kids. Well, what
Speaker 3: roberts you a GAMD interview and he's spoken and he said, look,
Speaker 3: I do feel at this age. He was kind of
Speaker 3: defending having a kid at this age, and he said,
Speaker 3: I understand the family and dynamics much better than when
Speaker 3: I was a younger parent. Like he was sort of saying,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of more mature now.
Speaker 4: It's funny that they Well, I guess first let's touch
Speaker 4: on this.
Speaker 3: I mean, in your practice, you work very closely with
Speaker 3: your patients, and I know you opened your practice Sterling
Speaker 3: Parents in part to like take more time with patients.
Speaker 3: Do you have any I don't want you to speak
Speaker 3: at you know, you know, give assessions you don't feel
Speaker 3: comfortable with. But what do you think is a good
Speaker 3: age to have kids at? From what you say, Oh gosh,
Speaker 3: is that But it's a really tough question, it is.
Speaker 5: But I truly believe that that answer is different for everybody.
Speaker 5: For you know, for women, for the people who are
Speaker 5: carrying the pregnancy. There is a real kind of range
Speaker 5: where it is it's you know, it becomes a little
Speaker 5: bit less safe for us most because of the cardiovascular
Speaker 5: load of pregnancy. And interestingly, we see an increased risk
Speaker 5: and complications for young patients. So when we when we
Speaker 5: look at you know, teenagers and unfortunately sometimes even younger
Speaker 5: than that, we see an increased risk of complications. And
Speaker 5: then when we get to the other end of the spectrum,
Speaker 5: when we get older, we see an increased risk and complications.
Speaker 5: And you know, most I'm not an infertility specialist, but
Speaker 5: most infertility specialists have cut a cutoff for the age
Speaker 5: that they will not go beyond to get a person pregnant,
Speaker 5: and usually that's you know, in the fifties. So I
Speaker 5: believe the oldest person who's ever been impregnated through in
Speaker 5: vitro fertilization was in This was in their sixties, but
Speaker 5: I believe they had falsified some documents to to you know,
Speaker 5: appear younger.
Speaker 4: It's older than I doubt it was going to be.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure the spectrum, right, there's a spectrum, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure that spectrum has light and slid a little bit,
Speaker 1: because our life expectancy is much even just since the
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties or whatever, since my parents were having children,
Speaker 1: It's changed dramatically just in that amount of time. We're
Speaker 1: living longer, we're healthier longer. So I'm sure it is
Speaker 1: that gap is widened and it moves a little bit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And you know, if it wasn't for if it
Speaker 5: wasn't for the fact that that pregnancy is such a uh,
Speaker 5: you know, such a physiologic load on the person who's pregnant.
Speaker 5: You know, I don't think that there's anything necessarily wrong
Speaker 5: with having kids in your in your in your fifties,
Speaker 5: but for the person who's pregnant, you know, the cardiovascular
Speaker 5: risk is significant in your fifties. As you know, our
Speaker 5: research and our you know, our medic our medicine advances,
Speaker 5: you know, these are potentially things that we could address.
Speaker 3: Okay, so doctor, certainly, Bob, now I'm really giving them that.
Speaker 3: It makes them ide both before, so maybe I feel like.
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 3: I think this is especially making havelines because obviously they
Speaker 3: know each other, they're co stars, but they are both
Speaker 3: now having kids at this late age in life.
Speaker 4: Is this becoming more common? Are you seeing older parents
Speaker 4: in your clinics?
Speaker 3: And have you seen any any papa bears in their
Speaker 3: seventies and eighties?
Speaker 5: So I personally have not had any uh baby daddies,
Speaker 5: any fathers of parents you know, in their in their
Speaker 5: seventies and eighties. It's so it's, you know, and it's
Speaker 5: not going to be that common. It's it's possible, but
Speaker 5: it's not going to be that common, right, But certainly
Speaker 5: we're seeing older parents, and I mean it makes sense.
Speaker 5: I mean it is very you know, it is very difficult,
Speaker 5: especially in the in the United States, you know, in
Speaker 5: with our economy and the difficulties with how expensive childcare
Speaker 5: is and how expensive schooling is and all of these things.
Speaker 5: Like you you essentially have to have a two income
Speaker 5: household of like you know, of people doing really well
Speaker 5: to really feel like you can take care of children
Speaker 5: with ease when you're not struggling to pay the bill.
Speaker 1: It's harder to establish your own life as a married
Speaker 1: couple now buying that first house, getting set up before
Speaker 1: you ever feel like you could bring a human being
Speaker 1: into this. Yeah, it's definitely pushed. It's kicked the can
Speaker 1: down the road for quite some time.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: I think there is just a general maybe I'd love
Speaker 1: to ask you maybe there is a general thinking too
Speaker 1: of just the younger generation of not getting married, not
Speaker 1: having kids like we did when.
Speaker 5: We're oh yeah, we're seeing that in the data, we
Speaker 5: are seeing that people are having less children. And I
Speaker 5: think it's just a result of one, you know, social
Speaker 5: media and podcasts like this and all of that, Like
Speaker 5: the word has kind of gotten out about the reality
Speaker 5: of parenting and how difficult it can be.
Speaker 4: That's interesting. People are scared, we know the truth now.
Speaker 5: And the financial stress. And I think that there's a
Speaker 5: lot of young people who are looking at the reality
Speaker 5: of parenting and not just like the the you know,
Speaker 5: the beautiful family life that's depicted you know on some
Speaker 5: you know, the older television shows and all of that,
Speaker 5: and they're they're seeing like the reality of care.
Speaker 1: We all just watched The Brady Bunch Leave It to
Speaker 1: Beaver and Write and saw Norman Rockwell paintings and thought, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is great. Thank god Nick Cannon is helping populate
Speaker 1: the world. Though it's okay. He just had baby number
Speaker 1: forty five while we were podcast.
Speaker 3: Well, actually, my mom actually used to say, my mom
Speaker 3: hadn't you when she was thirty, and she said she
Speaker 3: felt like she waited, But she also said if I'd
Speaker 3: known the reality, I.
Speaker 4: Would have waited longer.
Speaker 3: She's told me that several times, like saying, I didn't
Speaker 3: really you think you know how hard it's going to be,
Speaker 3: but you don't really know. So maybe there is more
Speaker 3: awareness of more people sharing the difficulty of like those
Speaker 3: early years and those sleepless nights.
Speaker 1: And she's been scary not to scare more people, doctor Stirling.
Speaker 1: But I seem to be hearing more. It might be
Speaker 1: social media, so we hear more of everything. Yeah, people
Speaker 1: having difficulty getting pregnant, conceiving. Yeah, and I hear if
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, it has to do with men in
Speaker 1: our potency has dipped.
Speaker 5: Well, you know I don't. First of all, we are
Speaker 5: seeing an increase in the overall you know, uh, rates
Speaker 5: of infertility, but that's because people are attempting to get
Speaker 5: pregnant later than ever before, So that's not really a surprise.
Speaker 5: And we see these decline. The decline is much you know,
Speaker 5: it's much more drastic essentially for women, for people with
Speaker 5: ovaries in the you know, in that kind of in
Speaker 5: those the decade of the thirties, right, we see that
Speaker 5: starting at thirty, we start to see those numbers kind
Speaker 5: of creep up, unfortunately. And we also see that you know,
Speaker 5: the same thing and men, but it's it's a little
Speaker 5: bit later in life and it isn't quite as drastic.
Speaker 5: So but yes, infertility can be either caused by you know,
Speaker 5: the man or the woman, or it can be a combination.
Speaker 3: I do feel like not just infertility, and I yeah,
Speaker 3: maybe doctor you can speak to some data on this,
Speaker 3: or if it's just more awareness, you know, I love
Speaker 3: that people share so people don't feel isolated and alone
Speaker 3: when they go through fertility struggles and when they have
Speaker 3: miscarriages and pregnancy losses.
Speaker 4: Is that increasing?
Speaker 3: Are pregnancy losses in cases of that increasing or do
Speaker 3: you think it just feels that way because people are
Speaker 3: open and sharing it.
Speaker 5: More so when we look at like the miscarriage rate
Speaker 5: at for a particular age. No, it's not increasing, but
Speaker 5: we are seeing people getting pregnant later, and we know that.
Speaker 5: So one of the things that one of the risks
Speaker 5: that increases with age is the risk of chromosomal undermatic
Speaker 5: things like Down syndrome. Okay, and if you are pregnant
Speaker 5: and you have a baby or a fetus that has
Speaker 5: Down syndrome, the risk of pregnancy loss is higher in
Speaker 5: those pregnancies. So we are seeing as you get older,
Speaker 5: your risk of pregnancy loss increases. There is some data
Speaker 5: that pregnancy loss may be associated with paternal age as well,
Speaker 5: but that data isn't isn't as you know, across the board.
Speaker 5: We don't see it across the board in all of
Speaker 5: the studies, so it's a little bit mixed. But so yes,
Speaker 5: as we as we get pregnant older, we are going
Speaker 5: to see it increase risk of pregnancy loss. And so
Speaker 5: I think that's part of the picture. But also very clearly,
Speaker 5: even in the time that I've been in obigu An
Speaker 5: I've been at Obijuan since twenty twelve, the awareness of
Speaker 5: pregnancy loss has really really increased, and so I think
Speaker 5: that it's it's both things are happening well.
Speaker 3: So a lot of this has to do with age,
Speaker 3: even more than I realize, because it's like that for
Speaker 3: everybody's if you're trying to get pregnant, grow older, you're
Speaker 3: seeing the in fertility struggles where you're seeing miscarriage more
Speaker 3: and people are getting.
Speaker 1: It makes sense if we're if we're if we're sliding
Speaker 1: that scale down when you know, women have the most eggs,
Speaker 1: men are the most fertile, and we slide both of
Speaker 1: those people down, obviously the window closes a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm curious. You know, we've mentioned social media a
Speaker 1: few times and just so much information out there as
Speaker 1: nob G y N. And you've been doing this, as
Speaker 1: you said, since twenty twelve, so the last you know,
Speaker 1: eleven years a pretty big time of social media exploding.
Speaker 1: Have you seen to the detriment as a doctor, people
Speaker 1: just getting you know, wild ideas off social media, on
Speaker 1: having kids, getting pregnant or self cures off the internet
Speaker 1: that you're like, whoa, WHOA, whoa, Please come to a doctor.
Speaker 5: Yes, definitely. And I think the reality is is that
Speaker 5: you know, our social media is a tool, and there
Speaker 5: are some ways. You know, I'm on social media, I'm
Speaker 5: on TikTok and Instagram, I'm educating there and in some
Speaker 5: ways it has done so much good. Okay, but yes,
Speaker 5: there is a lot of misinformation on these apps and
Speaker 5: it can really increase people's fears. And you know, it's
Speaker 5: not just about pure misinformation, but it's about how we
Speaker 5: talk about things. You know, we've you know, in this conversation,
Speaker 5: we have talked a lot about the risks of getting
Speaker 5: older as a parent and getting older as you you know,
Speaker 5: attempt to get pregnant. But the reality is is that
Speaker 5: there are also benefits to being advanced maternal age, to
Speaker 5: being older when you get pregnant, so and having your
Speaker 5: children at a later age. And so that's the thing
Speaker 5: about social media is even when the information is good information,
Speaker 5: at your information, you're only getting a little slice of
Speaker 5: the pie, right, And so it's about kind of being
Speaker 5: able to get educated in a way that allows for nuance,
Speaker 5: allows you to really understand the full picture of an issue.
Speaker 3: On that note, one, are there any misconceptions that you
Speaker 3: constantly see as novgyn that you would like to clear
Speaker 3: up here and now, things that pop in your head,
Speaker 3: like the top two or three, and then before I
Speaker 3: forget but two, we'll come back to Like, I would
Speaker 3: love to hear what some of those positive things are
Speaker 3: of being an older.
Speaker 4: Parent, because I will say, I mean, I'm a millenniine
Speaker 4: thirty five.
Speaker 3: So many of my friends have done exactly what we're
Speaker 3: talking about right now their career women.
Speaker 4: They are doctors, lawyers, and.
Speaker 3: Teachers, and a lot of them have waited until this
Speaker 3: time to have kids, or they've frozen their eggs, and
Speaker 3: so I just feel like this is a conversation I
Speaker 3: have all the time in a way of like being
Speaker 3: scared and being afraid and being worried.
Speaker 4: I'd love to hear some of the positives.
Speaker 1: Yeah you wait, and good job.
Speaker 4: But yeah, so first anything you want to clear up.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's really really important to understand that
Speaker 5: age is only one factor in the whole fertility discussion.
Speaker 5: There are a lot of people who attempt to get
Speaker 5: pregnant at twenty eight, twenty nine and really struggle to conceive,
Speaker 5: and everybody in their life is telling them, you're young,
Speaker 5: it's not going to be a problem. So age is
Speaker 5: just one factor. There are many causes of infertility, and
Speaker 5: I think we oftentimes lead out the people who are
Speaker 5: supposedly young who are are unable to get pregnant. So
Speaker 5: there's that, and then the other thing is I think
Speaker 5: egg freezing and potentially embryo freezing, which is when you
Speaker 5: freeze an embryo, are really great ways to potentially preserve
Speaker 5: your fertility. But I think a lot of people think
Speaker 5: that that is a one hundred percent like that's that's
Speaker 5: what you need to do, and it's not one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: So it's clear that doing you know, if you're going
Speaker 5: to freeze your eggs, doing so as you know, as
Speaker 5: young as possible is going to help you get the
Speaker 5: highest yield of eggs, but it's not one hundred percent guarantee.
Speaker 5: And I think a lot of people are surprised when
Speaker 5: they go back and they're like, Okay, I'm you know,
Speaker 5: I'm forty two, I'm now ready to get pregnant, and
Speaker 5: they're not able to use their own eggs.
Speaker 3: Oh so, you know, Courtney Kardashian was just talking about
Speaker 3: this on The Kardashians New season. She said, I froze
Speaker 3: my eggs and I think she said only one of
Speaker 3: them survived, and that was shocking to me. I did
Speaker 3: not understand that at all. I thought it was kind
Speaker 3: of you frozen, they unfreeze. It's like go on a steak,
Speaker 3: You're good to go. So what is the percentage?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 5: I actually I'm not a fertility specialist, so I don't
Speaker 5: know that percentage off the top of my head, but
Speaker 5: it's it's certainly not one hundred percent, so you want
Speaker 5: to And one thing we do know is that you
Speaker 5: can freeze your eggs, but you can also freeze embryos,
Speaker 5: and the yield is oftentimes higher with embryos. So if
Speaker 5: you know who your partner is, oftentimes a fertility specialist
Speaker 5: will recommend let's not just freeze your eg but let's
Speaker 5: also free some embryos as well.
Speaker 4: We'll bring it back to pop culture.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how familiar are with the
Speaker 3: scandal all doctor, but thank god Arian and vander Pump
Speaker 3: rules she was going to have Tom's hand of all
Speaker 3: fertilize her embryos. And thank god, as we've discovered his
Speaker 3: cheating with her friends, she did not so partner wisely.
Speaker 5: Right, yes, and that becomes a whole ethical legal issue.
Speaker 5: And there's been cases where you know, this is this
Speaker 5: person's they only have frozen embryos. They are not able to,
Speaker 5: you know, to otherwise have their own biological child, but
Speaker 5: they are no longer with that person, so it can
Speaker 5: become quite messy.
Speaker 1: I'm curious with women having children later in life, which,
Speaker 1: as you said, it's not necessarily a good thing or
Speaker 1: a bad thing, but it also closes that gap to menopause.
Speaker 1: And have you seen in your patients, because I'm sure
Speaker 1: obviously you're in obgu am. So you take their their
Speaker 1: health all the way through the effects of that and
Speaker 1: that that quick step from becoming a mom into that
Speaker 1: next stage of life. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So the average age of menopause is fifty one, but
Speaker 5: a lot of people are starting to experience some of
Speaker 5: the pre menopausitive symptoms in sometimes even the early forties,
Speaker 5: but oftentimes by the mid to late forties are starting
Speaker 5: to experience some of those symptoms. And obviously, with an
Speaker 5: average age of menopause of fifty one, there's a lot
Speaker 5: of people who are below that age. So yeah, it
Speaker 5: can be quite an interesting experience to go from Okay,
Speaker 5: I had my last child at forty three, and then
Speaker 5: the next year or you know, two years later, here
Speaker 5: I am and I'm having menopause symptoms or.
Speaker 1: I guess even simultaneous for some Yeah, I mean go
Speaker 1: hand in hand.
Speaker 5: Yes, I mean, if you're using assisted reproduction, you you know,
Speaker 5: you certainly could have your child and then that could
Speaker 5: be you know, that could be the end of your
Speaker 5: cycle after that.
Speaker 3: Okay, So doctor you said there were some positive things
Speaker 3: about yeah, your parents.
Speaker 4: What are something that would share? Now?
Speaker 5: First of all, I am an older parent, Okay, so
Speaker 5: I have had advanced maternal age pregnancies. I really think
Speaker 5: that there's a lot of you know, benefits just from
Speaker 5: my personal experience, but also the data shows that there's benefits.
Speaker 5: So we see that children of older parents are healthier,
Speaker 5: they do better in school, and they have fewer social, emotional,
Speaker 5: and behavioral issues. And we also see some benefits for
Speaker 5: the pregnant person. So we see that people who you know,
Speaker 5: that the pregnancy after thirty five is associated with longer lives, longevity,
Speaker 5: and we also see that improved memory and cognitive scores
Speaker 5: post menopause if you had your children later in life.
Speaker 5: So there's there's very clearly benefits, and that's that there's
Speaker 5: a reason why people delay child bearing, so that you
Speaker 5: can have, you know, the economic stability, the career stability,
Speaker 5: and also the emotional maturity.
Speaker 1: I mean, look our perspective, my perspective when I started
Speaker 1: as a dad at twenty nine, at my perspective now
Speaker 1: at fifty one, is one hundred and eighty degree different.
Speaker 3: I mean it's you're kind of this example of because
Speaker 3: your parents had you at nineteen and twenty and then
Speaker 3: you had your own kids starting in your thirties, and
Speaker 3: you look back at like even just what a difference
Speaker 3: that was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean my mom started having children when she
Speaker 1: was eighteen and had me when she was twenty, and
Speaker 1: so you know, I vividly remember my mom turning thirty
Speaker 1: I was I was ten eleven years old, and my
Speaker 1: brother was twelve for crying out loud, so you know,
Speaker 1: we were essentially at the same age as we all
Speaker 1: went to college together. So it was there's benefits to that.
Speaker 1: For sure, we had a lot in common. But then
Speaker 1: again I think about the perspective that I had much later.
Speaker 1: So like you said, I think there's pluses and minuses
Speaker 1: to both that it has to do with each individual.
Speaker 4: Mind saying older parent though, how you just explained it.
Speaker 3: What age is that like, so that's if you become
Speaker 3: a parent your late thirties for the first time, roughly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it depends on the study you look at.
Speaker 5: But advanced maternal age in the United States we're usually
Speaker 5: we're talking about thirty five years old and up. And
Speaker 5: then really there's also you know, some other countries well
Speaker 5: use forty years old as the cutoff, but it depends
Speaker 5: on each each study, So each study kind of uses
Speaker 5: their own age cutoff.
Speaker 4: Right, Okay, I have a question, sir. I wrote down
Speaker 4: to many specific questions.
Speaker 3: I know, I'm like I once, let's let's get it
Speaker 3: cleared by an expert today, not by TikTok Okay. A
Speaker 3: few years ago, there was this big I don't know
Speaker 3: if you remember this big there was this big, like
Speaker 3: trending Twitter moment about birth control. It might have been
Speaker 3: when I don't.
Speaker 4: Know, some kind of birth control decision was coming I
Speaker 4: care for.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there was this big trend of people discussing
Speaker 3: like should men just get vasectoms as.
Speaker 4: A way of birth control?
Speaker 3: And then it started coming up as how effective or
Speaker 3: vasectames when they're reverse And there's even that famous line.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you watched the office. But if
Speaker 3: you've seen the Dinner Party episode.
Speaker 4: Where Michael Scott goes and then I got reverse and
Speaker 4: I got reversed again.
Speaker 5: Yes, So how what does it look like?
Speaker 3: How effective is it for aseectomy to potentially get reverse? Yeah,
Speaker 3: and what do you think of that conversation around it
Speaker 3: being like a former birth control that people are using.
Speaker 5: I'm really really glad that you brought that up. So essentially,
Speaker 5: if you just look at the numbers, overall, we see
Speaker 5: that only about fifty percent of the sectims are able
Speaker 5: to be reversed.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: Now the longer you go between the actually the initial
Speaker 5: procedure and the reversal, the greater that percentage is going
Speaker 5: to get. So if you have a vseectomy and then
Speaker 5: you know six months later you decide to reverse it,
Speaker 5: well you're going to have a higher percentage of those
Speaker 5: being successful than if it's been ten years. But overall,
Speaker 5: it really needs to be considered a permanent sterilization. It's
Speaker 5: not something that we should be talking about, Oh, you
Speaker 5: can just go in and get it reversed, because that's
Speaker 5: not true. For everyone. Some people it will be successful,
Speaker 5: some people it will not.
Speaker 1: I went through this. I think my pipes are rusty
Speaker 1: and they're not coming back together. But I carefully sat
Speaker 1: down with the doctor and he was a great doctor
Speaker 1: and very much had that conversation with me. Are you sure,
Speaker 1: Because at the time I was, I forget how old
Speaker 1: I was, but I was like in my mid thirties.
Speaker 1: I had already had two kids, and so I knew
Speaker 1: that's where I was in my life. But he's like,
Speaker 1: you're still young enough, Are you sure? So that is
Speaker 1: an important conversation to have as a couple, not just
Speaker 1: for the man, but as a couple. Is this what
Speaker 1: you're wanting to do? Because I have had friends that
Speaker 1: have tried the reversal and it has been very painful
Speaker 1: and very unsuccessful.
Speaker 2: Oh is it like if you try to get a
Speaker 2: tattoo removed and it's more painful to get it removed
Speaker 2: than it was to get the tattoo.
Speaker 1: Well, it's easy. Think about a wire, your vast deference
Speaker 1: to just cutting it, just cutting it and carterterizing it
Speaker 1: very easy grabbing those two things and trying to fray
Speaker 1: them back together not so easy. Destructions always easier than construction.
Speaker 5: Yes, we and we do. We do that. We do
Speaker 5: tubal reconstructions for people who have their their tube tied,
Speaker 5: their their tubes tied as well, and it's a totally
Speaker 5: different procedure, much more technically challenging.
Speaker 2: It's like how it's easier to get married than it
Speaker 2: is to get divorced. Okay, got it?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and by the way, the wedding is a
Speaker 1: lot more fun than they don't show you that at
Speaker 1: the wedding video.
Speaker 2: Doctor Sterling, I have one more question for you to
Speaker 2: kind of tie it all together, and then please let
Speaker 2: us know if there's anything like that.
Speaker 1: I have loved this, by the way, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: It's been so great. Thank you. Unfortunately, we could probably
Speaker 2: ask you like a million more questions, but you have
Speaker 2: to go treat real patients. So you know, we're talking
Speaker 2: here about this all started with al Pacino Roberts Nero
Speaker 2: being older dads, and Chris mentioned Nick Cannon at one point,
Speaker 2: all like, parenting is very much a topic of the
Speaker 2: pop culture conversation. And now I just thought about Elon Musk,
Speaker 2: because Elon Musk is this guy who's he keeps saying that,
Speaker 2: you know, he feels like there's a population shortage and
Speaker 2: we should be really concerned about the lack of how
Speaker 2: people are having kids less, And actually he kind of
Speaker 2: ties it all together because his own father a few
Speaker 2: years ago had a kid in his seventies, because I
Speaker 2: guess his father.
Speaker 1: There's a big study in Japan that the population shortage.
Speaker 2: I don't know, so I want to ask you, and
Speaker 2: I think I'm paraphrasing Elon Musk and don't know what
Speaker 2: he's quoting. So, doctor Sterling, do you think there's I mean,
Speaker 2: we've talked about people having less kids. Is there a
Speaker 2: population decline in the US worldwide? Is it something you
Speaker 2: find concerning at all?
Speaker 5: So we're seeing birth rates declined, we certainly are. You know,
Speaker 5: I think that the concerns that are being brought up
Speaker 5: about the decline and the birth rate or a lot
Speaker 5: of that has to do with, you know, socioeconomics, and
Speaker 5: I am not you know, I do not have the
Speaker 5: expertise to comment on what happens to a society when
Speaker 5: the birth rate is declining. I just know from you know,
Speaker 5: my experience of the people that I see that the
Speaker 5: reason that the birth rate is declining is because people
Speaker 5: know that they are not going to be supported as
Speaker 5: new parents in the United States. They know that we
Speaker 5: do not have you know, universal low cost childcare where
Speaker 5: many other developed countries do. We do not have paternal
Speaker 5: leave after birth, and that's you know, there are I
Speaker 5: think it's forty percent of people are going back to
Speaker 5: work two weeks after getting birth. I mean that is just,
Speaker 5: you know, it does not make sense. So what we
Speaker 5: see is when you do not support pregnant and postpartum
Speaker 5: people and you do not support new families, people are
Speaker 5: going to look at the situation and say, yeah, that's
Speaker 5: not for me. I'm not going to put myself through that.
Speaker 5: And I understand it as someone who loves my children.
Speaker 5: I have three children. I love everything about it. I
Speaker 5: still one hundred percent understand why a lot of young
Speaker 5: people are saying it's not for me.
Speaker 1: Interesting, so compelling, doctor, Thank you so much. And by
Speaker 1: the way, I know we gave social media a hard time,
Speaker 1: but I also know that you are terrific on social
Speaker 1: media and that's a great way for you to kind
Speaker 1: of teach the masses and talk to the masses. So
Speaker 1: where can we find you?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'm on both TikTok and Instagram. I am
Speaker 5: doctor sterling Obi Juan, and yeah, I talk a lot
Speaker 5: about advanced maternal age because it's a something that's really
Speaker 5: near and dear to my heart, and I feel like
Speaker 5: there's a lot of scary stuff out there, but there's
Speaker 5: so much good about it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, just for do you mind me asking how
Speaker 1: old you were when you say your advanced stage? How
Speaker 1: old you were when you had your last child?
Speaker 5: Yeah? So I had my last child at thirty seven
Speaker 5: year old, just so.
Speaker 1: The women out there can kind of feel what that
Speaker 1: what this means. I appreciate it, Doctor Sterling. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for the insight, the knowledge. Truly enjoyed talking
Speaker 1: to you, and I feel like this won't be the
Speaker 1: last time we have you on the show.
Speaker 2: No, I think we're calling up.
Speaker 1: You may want to change your number, Doctor Storling, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much.
Speaker 5: All right, no problem.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.