Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up an sv podcast.
Speaker 3: I am Lisa Traeger.
Speaker 1: And I am Kara Klank And every week we take
Speaker 1: you through an episode of Law and Order SVU as
Speaker 1: well as the true crime that it was based on.
Speaker 1: And then we interview a fantastic guest from the show.
Speaker 1: And yeah, today's another hot one. Lisa, what's going on?
Speaker 1: You are not in Los Angeles right now?
Speaker 3: No, I'm in Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: I'm doing my first road gig since the first weekend
Speaker 2: of March twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: So I'm really excited. I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 2: Yesterday it was a full day of travel, Like it
Speaker 2: was just all day, all night travel, which is fine.
Speaker 3: I ate edibles.
Speaker 2: I was in the groove. I took a bunch of
Speaker 2: edibles last night. I was like, I'm gonna sleep in.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to do comedy. We're gonna record. And
Speaker 2: then I woke up to noises and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's just the toilet, singing, that's not none of my business.
Speaker 2: Put my feet on the ground full soaking wet carpet.
Speaker 2: The toilet from like that top thing, just squirting water out.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, stop it.
Speaker 2: Even the engineer came, I go have you ever seen
Speaker 2: anything like this? He goes, Never. It was truly insane.
Speaker 2: Water everywhere? Thank god, nothing was plugged in and I
Speaker 2: I was responsible and hung up all of my dresses
Speaker 2: and my suitcase was on that little standing they give you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would have been upsetting.
Speaker 2: But yeah, water everywhere, but no one was acting like
Speaker 2: it was crazy. The guy downstairs was like, oh right.
Speaker 2: I'm like, is there a new room? Will you offer
Speaker 2: me breakfast? What is happening that? Everyone was just chill.
Speaker 2: That's why the engine Finally I was like, why is
Speaker 2: everyone being so relaxed?
Speaker 3: This is out of control? He goes, this is out
Speaker 3: of yeah. Yeah, wait, so what did they do?
Speaker 2: I got moved down the hall, I o him h
Speaker 2: VAC all morning and then I closed the blinds, put
Speaker 2: on SVU on USA and fell asleep to the sounds
Speaker 2: of tarn manning murder. But yeah, that's it. And now
Speaker 2: I'm here. Oh my, I think I'm gonna try to
Speaker 2: finangle breakfast. But because of COVID hotel, things are still weird.
Speaker 2: There's not room service, the bars only open up four.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of weird things. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I did get really good late night sushi, which is
Speaker 2: pretty wild in Philadelphia. Okay, in Philadelphia, but today I
Speaker 2: went to a coffee shop. Google if something is closed,
Speaker 2: why are you saying it's open.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Ran to a coffee shop to get some coffee to
Speaker 2: be energized, and it was closed. Had to go to
Speaker 2: wuah wah. I had to get a mint mocha. Halfway
Speaker 2: through it stopped pouring. You have to pay.
Speaker 3: Before I was in, I was about to cry.
Speaker 1: Oh, you're like in Philadelphia, what are you doing to me?
Speaker 2: Are I have to record a podcast? And he's like,
Speaker 2: we'll help you, we'll help you. So but yeah, no,
Speaker 2: it is a really it's really beautiful. My hotel's on
Speaker 2: the water, so I love that. Also, I mean, all
Speaker 2: I really see online now is Brittany. It's all about
Speaker 2: Britney Stey now.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: I am like devouring all the Britney coverage. It's amazing
Speaker 1: to hear her talk for herself after so many years
Speaker 1: of essentially being incarcerated, like in her own home. I
Speaker 1: had no idea that she has an iud in, that
Speaker 1: her father will not let her go to the doctor
Speaker 1: to have removed. She wants to have a baby with
Speaker 1: her new boyfriend.
Speaker 2: And it's not even a new boyfriend. They've been together
Speaker 2: for year. Yes, yes, yes, you're right, Yes, my thing
Speaker 2: is you know. She did take a while to speak out,
Speaker 2: and I wonder if the Free Britney movement, all the
Speaker 2: support from all her like colleagues and peers, kind of
Speaker 2: helped her come forward. But I really hope this pushes
Speaker 2: the judges to make a better decision. And I went
Speaker 2: to that tour when she's like, I was forced to
Speaker 2: tour and I didn't want to, Like I went to
Speaker 2: that concert.
Speaker 3: I feel terrible. Yeah, like and she was awesome, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Her dad is a bad man, bad and like conservatorship
Speaker 1: laws need to be revamped, Like this is not okay,
Speaker 1: Like conservatorship laws are for like people who are completely
Speaker 1: like non compass ventis, like people that can't you know, speak,
Speaker 1: not perfectly healthy thirty nine year old women who have.
Speaker 3: Like that are being put on lithium.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's I just I want the best for her,
Speaker 2: and I hope this is like the push.
Speaker 3: I hope they end up.
Speaker 1: And it's like, if you think she's too sick to
Speaker 1: control all her money and control her family and all that,
Speaker 1: then she's too sick to tour like you cannot.
Speaker 3: She compared it to sex trafficking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she didn't have her passport, she couldn't drive,
Speaker 2: she didn't have anything on her, and I just and
Speaker 2: then Justin put out a fucking statement, It's like, have
Speaker 2: you know we know her from anything from you? We
Speaker 2: don't want anything from you, right, like such bullshit. But
Speaker 2: I hope this kind of I mean same with the doc,
Speaker 2: but I hope it informs the way people treat quote
Speaker 2: unquote like lunatic women out in public or whatever, you know,
Speaker 2: Like we are all kind of guilty of how we
Speaker 2: treated her in Amy Winehouse, and you know now with
Speaker 2: Demi Levado, like we just all have to be a
Speaker 2: little bit smarter and better how we treat who we
Speaker 2: think or who the media has deemed like someone we
Speaker 2: can make fun of. I don't know right right right
Speaker 2: In other court news, we do have court news, yeah,
Speaker 2: well not full news, but the Cameron hooker early release
Speaker 2: hearing has actually been moved to today, so we'll have
Speaker 2: updates next Week's supposed to be in March, thanks to
Speaker 2: everyone who wrote to the parole board, but we'll find
Speaker 2: out today and hopefully he will not be released from person.
Speaker 1: And just to remind people, Cameron Hooker is the psychopath
Speaker 1: who held Colleen stan as his sex slave in a
Speaker 1: box under her bed for seven years.
Speaker 3: Just in case you forgot and other news, other court news.
Speaker 1: Paul Bernardo of the Canon Barbie Killers, the Scarborough rapist,
Speaker 1: was denied pearl and he was denied day parol. I
Speaker 1: think you know there's some kind of pearl where you
Speaker 1: can like leave and then come back to jail at night.
Speaker 1: He was denied all parole, so that's good news.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have one friend who had to serve a month
Speaker 2: in jail and he had work release, so he would
Speaker 2: like go to work.
Speaker 3: And then come back at night.
Speaker 2: But his family didn't want anyone to know, like his
Speaker 2: extended family, what was going on, so they told all
Speaker 2: the family that he got laysick and that's why his
Speaker 2: mom had to come help him drive him to and
Speaker 2: from work from jail. But now, like any like anytime
Speaker 2: there's a photo, they're like, take off your glasses because
Speaker 2: he has to keep the chiagos.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the ruse that he got laysick. I love that,
Speaker 3: but he has glasses.
Speaker 1: My friend went to jail for three days, but it
Speaker 1: was like in Philadelphia actually, and it was for like
Speaker 1: a pretty bad dui where she also got found with
Speaker 1: drugs on her and like she was for three days
Speaker 1: on bunk beds in a room right room, no bars,
Speaker 1: a door that was unlocked, she could wear her regular clothes.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what kind of jail was this? Chill jail?
Speaker 1: But I guess she said the worst person she said
Speaker 1: the worst crime really that she was in there with
Speaker 1: her was like a pharmacist who was like writing bad prescription.
Speaker 1: So I think it was like low like not non violent, yeah,
Speaker 1: non violent crimes.
Speaker 2: Although what do you why is is yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 2: could hurt me. But back in the day, do you
Speaker 2: guys were seen chiller?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It's kind of like we didn't have seat belts in
Speaker 2: cars in the sixties and the nineties. Everyone drank and
Speaker 2: drove in There's just too many past and present tenses.
Speaker 3: I figure that one out. Also, your mom came to visit.
Speaker 1: Yes, my mom came. She was very helpful with Oscar.
Speaker 1: She loves Oscar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's very good with him.
Speaker 1: And she met Lisa and she was She was asking
Speaker 1: me after, She's like, so, what else does Lisa do
Speaker 1: besides your podcast.
Speaker 3: I was like, comedy, baby, She's the comedy dream. I
Speaker 3: likes meeting your mom.
Speaker 2: I like when I was like, are you a editarian too,
Speaker 2: and she was like absolutely not.
Speaker 3: Yeah. She was like offended.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, speaking of my mom and a little bit
Speaker 1: of my childhood. Because I asked her about this, I
Speaker 1: got literally no fewer than four hundred messages from all
Speaker 1: of you guys. I mean probably more between my own
Speaker 1: account and the That's Messed Up account. The Chipmunks movie
Speaker 1: has really resonated with you guys, and I'm so glad.
Speaker 1: I want all of you to know. Some people wrote
Speaker 1: me saying I thought I dreamed this movie. People wrote
Speaker 1: me saying no one I've ever met has seen this movie.
Speaker 3: I want you to know that.
Speaker 1: There are hundreds, if not thousands of people out there
Speaker 1: that I've seen it and are obsessed with it, because
Speaker 1: they have all messaged me in the past week, and
Speaker 1: I don't know, what can I say, Chipmunk ive like
Speaker 1: we are bonded now forever, and I want you guys
Speaker 1: to send me any updated Chipmunk news whenever you hear it.
Speaker 3: I know, but I was totally feeling left out. It's
Speaker 3: on YouTube, though, Let's watch it okay with Rosie? Maybe? Yeah,
Speaker 3: that would be really fun.
Speaker 1: A lot of people tell me I loved it as
Speaker 1: a kid, and I've shown it to my kids and
Speaker 1: they didn't care about I think I can get Rosy
Speaker 1: into it. She's into gummy bears and some other old stuff.
Speaker 1: So anyway, you're not alone. And also people have been
Speaker 1: writing to you, Lisa about the subway tuna because we
Speaker 1: happen to talk about it the week that Subway tuna
Speaker 1: went viral, which is what can I say? We dictate
Speaker 1: the trends here at that's messed up.
Speaker 2: I just know that I will get the tuna again,
Speaker 2: so it's like, we stop sending it to me.
Speaker 3: I don't care what it's made out of. It's good.
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to eat it anymore. I'll just
Speaker 2: go to Jimmy John's for the tuna out.
Speaker 1: But I love that they did a tuna DNA test
Speaker 1: on the sandwich food.
Speaker 3: Did I talk about the Hills last week two or no?
Speaker 3: Because yeah you did? It is it's just more and
Speaker 3: more upsetting.
Speaker 2: I feel so bad that no one intervened and went, Heidi,
Speaker 2: this is an abusive relationship. How about now? Still to
Speaker 2: this day, he cut everyone that she loves out of
Speaker 2: her life. It is so like awful to watch. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can't stop. I will watch the whole thing, but
Speaker 2: just upsetting what they let reality tell and kind of
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just it's again watching young women
Speaker 2: ruin their lives and then it's like everyone just sitting
Speaker 2: being like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: For entertainment, yeah, for sure. Definitely upsetting.
Speaker 2: I wish I had a fun plane story or because
Speaker 2: I don't know, I wish there was something something cool
Speaker 2: to end on. We do live exciting lives.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm really excited, Like I feel like so vicariously.
Speaker 3: Excited for you being on the road.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, she's gonna check into hotel,
Speaker 1: she's gonna get food, then like tomorrow she's gonna have
Speaker 1: the day, and then like she's gonna.
Speaker 3: Eat all these other comics. It's like so fun.
Speaker 2: I did buy a ticket to go to the Barnes Collection.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go to the Philadelphia Art Museum. But
Speaker 2: it is a cool crime documentary. It's called The Art
Speaker 2: of the Steal. If anyone wants to watch.
Speaker 3: It, it's oh, yeah, I've been meaning too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's Philadelphia basically stole this man's artwork and
Speaker 2: changed his will and it like fucked his wishes after
Speaker 2: he died. But I'm going to go look at it.
Speaker 3: I got I gotta see.
Speaker 2: Uh these d koonings, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I only know that because of our friend. Okay, so
Speaker 2: our friends we didn't talk about Father's Day, our friends
Speaker 2: who were close with instead of like, oh it's a
Speaker 2: family hangout since they always see their kids all the time,
Speaker 2: it's actually like mom or dad get their day off.
Speaker 2: And so I did. I got to go to the
Speaker 2: horse track with a daddy. And it was just so
Speaker 2: much fun being at the horse track in California, the mountains,
Speaker 2: the palm trees, all the families out and about, just
Speaker 2: like every It was really a good time. And there
Speaker 2: was shaven ice, I had a hot dog. I won
Speaker 2: one race. I bet on a horse named Ricotta, And
Speaker 2: I know there's like ethical issues, but it was an
Speaker 2: awesome day and I love And then we went to barcade.
Speaker 2: I found Cubert Cubert's my number one game of all time.
Speaker 2: Hopefully I have a Chipmunk type reaction, but I loved.
Speaker 2: I love that vibe of like, oh, you're always such
Speaker 2: a good dad. Take the day off, peace out, go
Speaker 2: with your friend.
Speaker 1: Me and the mom of this couple went to a
Speaker 1: hotel for the afternoon together and just laid by a pool.
Speaker 1: We're like, take the children away from us. This is
Speaker 1: what we want to do. It's the best. But Lisa,
Speaker 1: I would say, always bet on Ricotta. Yeah, in every
Speaker 1: aspect of life, always bet on Ricotta.
Speaker 2: I bet on all the ones that had fun names.
Speaker 2: I bet on sure pro Bo No, No, I bet
Speaker 2: on all the SVU themed horses. But it was just like,
Speaker 2: I love that I get to do boys' Night. But
Speaker 2: I did ask him. I go, how many people did
Speaker 2: you ask before you asked me? He goes, five people
Speaker 2: said no, And I go, well, it's okay. I did
Speaker 2: say yes.
Speaker 3: My husband was one of them.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get going with today's episode.
Speaker 3: All right, let's get going.
Speaker 1: We are talking about the episode head season five, episode
Speaker 1: twenty five. I gotta admit this episode title makes you
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be about something completely different than what
Speaker 1: it's about.
Speaker 2: Well, I keep singing getting some head. Get you know
Speaker 2: that song? Or no, was getting some head? You don't
Speaker 2: know that song?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, Lisa, you're a little tone dep it's
Speaker 1: hard to know the songs.
Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, I think you meant tone deaf like
Speaker 2: it was an offensive song.
Speaker 3: I was like, it's just a song about head.
Speaker 1: No, you told me that you're tone deaf sas when
Speaker 1: you sing a lyric. I don't really, I can't place it.
Speaker 3: Get in some head? No, Okay, I love this, Let's
Speaker 3: release this.
Speaker 1: This is our new theme song. Is just Lisa saying
Speaker 1: getting some head, over and over.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: This episode from two thousand and four, it's one of
Speaker 1: my like all time remember this one. It's always stuck
Speaker 1: in my head as as a great episode.
Speaker 3: So I was in high school. I was a senior
Speaker 3: in high school. Crazy. Oh yeah, I was out of college.
Speaker 1: So we open on a sassy professional woman with no
Speaker 1: time for bullshit who walks into a coffee house, orders
Speaker 1: her coffee and then is like bathroom this way and
Speaker 1: she's like just having like a full Devilwares produ moment
Speaker 1: on the phone, and she drops her phone in the toilet,
Speaker 1: and that's when she like lifts up the seat to
Speaker 1: get her cell phone, her like flip phone out of
Speaker 1: the toilet. She realizes that there's a tiny toilet cam
Speaker 1: in the toilet.
Speaker 3: Okay, so now we.
Speaker 1: Cut to Elliott and Olivia inspecting the equipment with Ruben
Speaker 1: Morales from TARRU, which a lot of people have been
Speaker 1: writing to us saying they have always thought Tarru was
Speaker 1: a person and that is not what it's like technical
Speaker 1: Assistance Response Unit or something like that. It's like whenever
Speaker 1: they have to go through a phone, it's Tarru and
Speaker 1: stablers like peeping toms have gone high tech on us.
Speaker 1: It's like high tech people are always going to be
Speaker 1: pervy too. They're finding they're the new frontiers for everything.
Speaker 1: That's like that's perverted. So maybe I shouldn't say perverted.
Speaker 1: I mean, like why not?
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know what I mean, Like I
Speaker 3: just feel like, yeah, they're.
Speaker 2: Alally the charge of technology, yes, and they were in everything,
Speaker 2: but also I love my iPhone, so I don't know, Wait,
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is a movie or real
Speaker 2: life or a shit. I don't know anymore what is
Speaker 2: real or not. But someone was listening to porn on
Speaker 2: their phone and it was connected to the Bluetooth speaker,
Speaker 2: and so everyone was hearing the porn.
Speaker 1: I think that's probably definitely happened in real life, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, So they are at this coffee
Speaker 1: house where they found the camera, and they're just looking
Speaker 1: around at like, you know, dozens and dozens of people
Speaker 1: on their laptops, and Benson's like, which one of them
Speaker 1: is the pervert? And Stabler's like the guy who downloaded
Speaker 1: the most crap, and I'm like, lol, I guess it's
Speaker 1: like that's a double entendre about the toilet cam. Okay,
Speaker 1: So now we're in the top of act one. They've
Speaker 1: checked everyone in the coffee shop.
Speaker 3: It's none of them.
Speaker 1: Munch is in the you know, giving his little quips
Speaker 1: where he goes gives a whole new meeting to live
Speaker 1: streaming video whoa Huang says they're looking for a europhiliac,
Speaker 1: which is sexual attraction to urine, or a copperphiliac, which
Speaker 1: is a sexual attraction too, and then Benson cuts him
Speaker 1: off before he can say it, but we know he's
Speaker 1: talking about poop.
Speaker 3: Okay, Oh, I thought it was.
Speaker 2: Gonna be something else when I didn't really catch on, huh, well,
Speaker 2: what did you think just filming pe like not p
Speaker 2: but like secret filming, that was going to be Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, there's a voyeuristic nature. But europhiliac is sexual attraction, you'reine.
Speaker 1: Coprophilia is sexual attraction to faces.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 1: So these are not heavily studied paraphilias, he says, but
Speaker 1: they often are the result of like a hostile home
Speaker 1: life or abuse, where like a child can like turn
Speaker 1: inwards on themselves and become obsessed with their own bodily functions.
Speaker 3: So that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I never really knew that was like those two things
Speaker 1: were linked together.
Speaker 3: They said, the guy is probably not dangerous.
Speaker 1: The guy who's planting these cameras, his crime is voyeuristic,
Speaker 1: but he's antisocial and he doesn't want any contact with
Speaker 1: the victims, Like I.
Speaker 3: Don't think he's trying to hurt anybody. He just wants
Speaker 3: to watch them.
Speaker 1: P and Piece, Finn and Munch go get info at
Speaker 1: a spy store to track down the equipment.
Speaker 3: And I think I've told you about this, Lisa.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into like too much detail
Speaker 1: about it because I don't want to get my friend
Speaker 1: in trouble.
Speaker 3: But I've told you about my friend.
Speaker 1: Who you know, you've met before, who has gone into
Speaker 1: a spy store and used spy equipment to spy on
Speaker 1: something before, Like, what.
Speaker 3: Are they spying on? Well, she was trying to take
Speaker 3: a test. Yeah, yeah, I can't I can't remember.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was trying to take a test, and she
Speaker 1: was spying, like using spyware, not to cheat on the
Speaker 1: test herself, but to get information for other people. It's
Speaker 1: kind of confusing, but I'm almost positive she wants to
Speaker 1: this spy store because I think this is a spy
Speaker 1: store in New York, in like the West Village or something.
Speaker 3: Anyway, So they go there.
Speaker 1: They meet Charlie, who is played by my comedy obsession
Speaker 1: Amy Sedaris.
Speaker 3: Are you Amy Sidaris fan? I love her so much.
Speaker 3: I am a huge Amie Sidaris fan.
Speaker 2: She's also best friends with Sarah Jessica Park Her any
Speaker 2: friend of s JP is a friend of mine. Yes,
Speaker 2: And I went to the premiere of At Home with
Speaker 2: Amy Sedaris and me and my friend were the first
Speaker 2: ones at the party and we were the last to leave.
Speaker 2: We couldn't get enough. It was like my first kind
Speaker 2: of big party like that. As JP was there and
Speaker 2: I ended up going home with the pie because I
Speaker 2: was the last man standing.
Speaker 3: They were like, get this pie out of here.
Speaker 2: And the pie with the crust said at home with
Speaker 2: Amy Sedaris on.
Speaker 1: The pie Wow and I ultimate swag beaked good and
Speaker 1: so I obviously love her.
Speaker 3: But I also was in Horace and Peep.
Speaker 2: I know you didn't think I was going to go
Speaker 2: on a monologue, but I was in Horace and Pete
Speaker 2: with her, and she kind of not scolded me. But
Speaker 2: I was friendly with one of the PA's and we'd
Speaker 2: work together on a different show too, and so I went, huh,
Speaker 2: you got sunburn?
Speaker 3: What did you do?
Speaker 2: And she went, that is so rude, And so I
Speaker 2: was like scolded by her a little.
Speaker 1: I would say, that is a scolding for someone to
Speaker 1: just say that is so rude.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she scolded me. Not really, no, she.
Speaker 2: But we knew each other and he was sunburnt. You know,
Speaker 2: like if you're looking tan, I'm saying, what'd you do?
Speaker 1: I step down from you went to the premiere party
Speaker 1: of one of her books, one of her like crafting
Speaker 1: books that spawned her television show. And it was really
Speaker 1: really tiny at like the Bonne up a Tite, like
Speaker 1: some bonn upetite place in the New York Times building,
Speaker 1: so super super tiny, and Sarah Jessica Parker Matthew Roderick
Speaker 1: were there, and I did back up into Sarah Jessica
Speaker 1: Parker and then say, oh, excuse.
Speaker 3: Me, and we had like a little moment like that.
Speaker 1: But I made Amy Sidaris sign my book Greek surch
Speaker 1: just Jews without Money, which is a quote from Strangers
Speaker 1: with Candy, which is one of my all time favorite
Speaker 1: shows and not something that I believe.
Speaker 3: Please don't come for me Greek or Jewish people. That's
Speaker 3: funny though, that's a good bit. That's so mad.
Speaker 2: But watching her work on Horse and p I will say,
Speaker 2: she's an improv obviously legend, but like every take was different.
Speaker 2: She was making everyone laugh, like no one could keep
Speaker 2: it together. And so I'm wondering watching the scene did
Speaker 2: she improvise?
Speaker 3: Was this written?
Speaker 2: Did they let Amy be Amy? Is this too long ago?
Speaker 2: I wonder what it was? But she is perfect, I
Speaker 2: guess what we're saying is we're perfect. We're obsessed with her,
Speaker 2: not we're perfect. She's perfect and were her.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Amy Sedaris plays Charlie, who is this like spycam whiz.
Speaker 1: She works in the back of the spycam shop and
Speaker 1: she does all the custom jobs, so she like knows
Speaker 1: she's like, I make five hundred custom spycams a year
Speaker 1: or whatever, like she makes so many. And she leads
Speaker 1: them to this porn production company called Fetish Manner, and
Speaker 1: they are definitely using the cameras in a non spying way,
Speaker 1: like everybody knows that they're being filmed at this place.
Speaker 1: They use these waterproof spy cams for like the shower,
Speaker 1: the toilets. This is basically a livestream porn where apparently
Speaker 1: viewers get to weigh in on what they want, which
Speaker 1: I don't even know if that exists today, and I
Speaker 1: think is very progressive for porn in two thousand and
Speaker 1: four for them to just be like like sort of
Speaker 1: like you control the porn stars porn.
Speaker 3: Have you have you heard of that?
Speaker 2: Well? I think it's just like OnlyFans are like if
Speaker 2: you're live streaming, and then the or like camming and
Speaker 2: then people are typing like do this or I want
Speaker 2: to see this, and then you can.
Speaker 3: Like tip money.
Speaker 2: But also I remember watching Real Sex when I was
Speaker 2: a kid, and there was like a house of young
Speaker 2: women with cameras everywhere and they like lived their lives.
Speaker 3: And people could pay like just to like put like
Speaker 3: pop in and look at it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I thought it was like pretty I thought
Speaker 1: it was pretty progressive for two thousand and four, and
Speaker 1: like like the way, you know, that's kind of thing
Speaker 1: I think people would be into now, like with camming exactly.
Speaker 1: And we get a glimpse of Coco Tea herself in
Speaker 1: her first role on S for You. She's been in
Speaker 1: a three or four episodes, but this is her first
Speaker 1: role where she's listed as porn queen and she comes like,
Speaker 1: you know, skittering down the sidewalk with like her huge
Speaker 1: boobs and it's just like.
Speaker 3: We're coming, We're coming, and like she has like a.
Speaker 1: Cute little line. So that was a fun, fun little
Speaker 1: the intro to Coco in the SVU universe. Then Munch,
Speaker 1: they're back at the station, a monch is like can
Speaker 1: you believe Fetish Manor has over three hundred thousand hits.
Speaker 1: It's like, yes, of course I can believe that Munch
Speaker 1: like people like to watch porn. Like this is not incredible,
Speaker 1: all right. The next part is a little.
Speaker 3: Bit too much of a stretch for me.
Speaker 1: For SVU, this random man walks into the precinct and goes,
Speaker 1: I think I may have run into the spy cam pervert.
Speaker 1: So this assumes that, like, this case is so big
Speaker 1: that everyone's read about it. This man remembers that when
Speaker 1: he was getting out of a cab, a man was
Speaker 1: rushing out of the coffee shop holding a coffee cup
Speaker 1: from the coffee place knocked it all over him. And
Speaker 1: this is how they're finding the guy. They track this
Speaker 1: man's receipts on the cab, so they find a cab.
Speaker 1: Then they track who his next customer was, and it
Speaker 1: leads to the NOL apartments. Okay, here at the NOL apartments,
Speaker 1: Olivia and Menson show up, or no, it's Olivia and Munch,
Speaker 1: and we meet the most ridiculous character I've ever seen,
Speaker 1: this annoyed sunbather.
Speaker 3: Did you clock this guy?
Speaker 1: There's just this like hot guy who's sunbathing on the
Speaker 1: stoop of his New York apartment, which I have to say,
Speaker 1: I've never seen a single fucking person ever do like
Speaker 1: on the front stoop of your New York apartment, go
Speaker 1: and sit up on the tarmac, get up through the
Speaker 1: fire escape, and like get up on the roof.
Speaker 3: What are you doing here? He's like he's so annoyed.
Speaker 1: He goes ough, like barely opens his eyes and he's like,
Speaker 1: and I honestly I looked to find this guy on
Speaker 1: IMDb because I was like, I pray this man is
Speaker 1: quid acting because he's so bad. But his character is
Speaker 1: like not even listed in the IMDb. If you find it,
Speaker 1: let me know. But I read through the IMDb and
Speaker 1: the fan wiki and like could not find like annoyed
Speaker 1: sunbather or like neighbor man or anything listed. He has
Speaker 1: information to give them, but he is simultaneously so bothered
Speaker 1: by their presence, like he's such a weirdo. He just
Speaker 1: like he's like, oh yeah, I've seen the guy around
Speaker 1: my building. He creeps me out, Like I'm like, you
Speaker 1: creep me out? Go to sheep's meadow? Why are you
Speaker 1: sunbathing on the stoop?
Speaker 3: Sometimes he just got a pleeeze in a tan when
Speaker 3: you can.
Speaker 1: Get it, I guess he was. Really he was a
Speaker 1: very la character.
Speaker 3: In a New York show. I was like, you don't
Speaker 3: belong here, and so he basically tells them, oh, it's
Speaker 3: like the first door on the left. Oh, get out
Speaker 3: of my son, Benson.
Speaker 1: And then they get to the apartment and who opens
Speaker 1: the door of the apartment but Charlie aka Amy Sedaris.
Speaker 1: So she they're like, all right, the jig is up, Charlie,
Speaker 1: what's going on? And she's like, it's my baby brother, Wade,
Speaker 1: Wade Donado. He's having trouble. He had trouble holding down
Speaker 1: a job, so he came to couch surf and he
Speaker 1: ended up staying for two years.
Speaker 3: That's gotta suck.
Speaker 1: She admits that she made the cam for him, but
Speaker 1: she says he's not a pervert, he's just troubled. And
Speaker 1: she says we didn't have a pleasant childhood, so that
Speaker 1: kind of backs up what Hong said before. And they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, your brother is sick, Like, let us stop
Speaker 1: him so like we can get him the counseling he needs.
Speaker 3: So she dumps this huge box of like p centric.
Speaker 1: Porn and homemade DVDs onto the ground and then at
Speaker 1: just At that moment.
Speaker 3: Wade walks in.
Speaker 1: He's pissed, pun superintended that people are his privacy and
Speaker 1: he is played by the very very funny James Orbaniac.
Speaker 1: So it's funny to see these two comedy people just
Speaker 1: playing this brother sister troubled duo. In interrogation, Wade does
Speaker 1: not want to talk about it. He's like, this is
Speaker 1: my private thing that I do, like, don't talk to
Speaker 1: me about it. And then Stabler walks in with his
Speaker 1: p journal where he has documented all of his PCAM footage,
Speaker 1: like whether what kind of specimens people have passed? The
Speaker 1: color of the urine, like he talks about, you know
Speaker 1: what the butts look like.
Speaker 3: It's I mean, it's I'm being a third grader.
Speaker 1: It's an invasion of privacy and it's definitely a crime,
Speaker 1: but it is kind of funny.
Speaker 3: I'm curious to know what his favorite type of p is.
Speaker 1: Right, are you loving? Like a light It's like me
Speaker 1: with Rose. I like a light, light, pink rose. I
Speaker 1: don't really like a darker rose. But some people that's
Speaker 1: their thing, you know, yeah, but they're sick in the head.
Speaker 1: You want a light rose, I.
Speaker 3: Know, I want it to be light blush page. If
Speaker 3: you want a dark one, just drink a sand area,
Speaker 3: go get juice. You know I'll also do that.
Speaker 1: So he thinks he weirdly thinks he's done nothing wrong
Speaker 1: because the videos are for private use, and he's like,
Speaker 1: just like give me, let me pay the fine so
Speaker 1: I can bounce. And it's like, Okay, you've got to
Speaker 1: know you're doing something wrong. You ran out of the
Speaker 1: coffee house and knocked a man over to get out
Speaker 1: of there. And I think they mentioned Stephanie's Law, which
Speaker 1: they said was passed in August.
Speaker 3: Now I look this up.
Speaker 1: Stephanie's Law is moved unlawful surveillance to a Class E felony,
Speaker 1: punishable by up to four years imprisonment for first time
Speaker 1: offenders and up to seven years for repeat offenders. And
Speaker 1: it was named after a Long Island woman named Stephanie Fuller,
Speaker 1: whose landlord Liza, I know this is creepy, this is
Speaker 1: triggering for you because you did have somebody come and
Speaker 1: peep in your window. Her landlord had secretly videotaped her
Speaker 1: bedroom in her rented apartment, and so she got this
Speaker 1: law passed and like it sort of just like updated
Speaker 1: all the state and local.
Speaker 3: Peeping Tom in New York. So I'm glad that happened.
Speaker 3: That reminds you of Aaron Andrews.
Speaker 2: Do you remember like people were spying on her through
Speaker 2: the hotel, the ESPN woman. Oh no, I wonder if
Speaker 2: there's an SVU based on her. That was like such
Speaker 2: a big case. I think she won a lot of money.
Speaker 3: WHOA.
Speaker 1: There definitely is a sportscaster or SVU where something happens,
Speaker 1: but I think it's more of an assault thing. And
Speaker 1: there's like, aren't there rules like you can tape someone
Speaker 1: as long as there's they're not talking, as long as
Speaker 1: there's no volume or something, which I think seems fucked up.
Speaker 3: I don't know about that. Oh, I don't know. We
Speaker 3: have to look that up.
Speaker 1: So now like basically they're getting Wade shook, Like he's
Speaker 1: realizing now that he has as actually stands to serve
Speaker 1: some jail time here.
Speaker 3: So he spooked.
Speaker 1: He wants to make a deal, and he basically is like,
Speaker 1: I've got something you can work with. Go to like
Speaker 1: our twelve minute fifty two on this tape and check
Speaker 1: out what check out what there is, Like he in
Speaker 1: his mind knows exactly the timecode of this place, which
Speaker 1: I think speaks to his but.
Speaker 3: You know this is upsetting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they go and they check out the camera
Speaker 1: and they see footage of a young boy coming into
Speaker 1: the bathroom stall crying, possibly having been attacked.
Speaker 3: He's got to cut over his eye.
Speaker 1: And then you see an adult from just like the
Speaker 1: sort of like mid section down come in and assaults
Speaker 1: him on camera before the camera goes out. So you
Speaker 1: can't actually tell who You can't see the face of
Speaker 1: the person who it is or anything. But it's pretty
Speaker 1: upsetting because it's just like you're just watching kind of
Speaker 1: like two bodies like well.
Speaker 2: I also don't I mean, I understand he didn't want
Speaker 2: to get caught, but if he sent it secret, I
Speaker 2: mean to sit on this and not do anything about it,
Speaker 2: like go to jail.
Speaker 3: I fucking hate him.
Speaker 1: I know, that's it's pretty bad. You got to see something.
Speaker 1: If you see something on your PCAM, say something.
Speaker 3: Come on.
Speaker 1: So now we're in a holding cell, and Stabler feels
Speaker 1: the way you feel. Okay, So because we're in a
Speaker 1: holding cell now, and Stabler grabs Wade and starts, like
Speaker 1: you know, doing his man handling tough guy act and
Speaker 1: He's really mad that he saw that this guy saw
Speaker 1: this gown and did nothing.
Speaker 3: And you know, Wade's like, what was I supposed to do?
Speaker 1: Tell you that I captured it all on my p
Speaker 1: KM or whatever, like he's like, you know, and then
Speaker 1: Wade gives it up that it was recorded in Central
Speaker 1: Park and that he was too far away to like
Speaker 1: identify anyone or see the purp. So now they're at
Speaker 1: TRU and Morales is using some kind of equipment that
Speaker 1: they've borrowed from NASA to clean up images. I've heard
Speaker 1: that this is kind of a bullshit thing that procedurals
Speaker 1: do where they go enhance enhance and they can clean
Speaker 1: up photos, like like I've like Adam Ruins Everything as
Speaker 1: a show that my friend used to host that they
Speaker 1: talked about it where they were like, a picture is
Speaker 1: a picture. You can't just like change what the pixels are,
Speaker 1: you know, Like, but maybe NASA has some tricks we
Speaker 1: don't know about.
Speaker 3: Either way, they're able to like.
Speaker 1: Fully clean up this photo and get like a very
Speaker 1: very clear picture of this guy's face. They're able to
Speaker 1: distinguish the fact that the purp takes up cup out
Speaker 1: of his pants like an Athletic Cup and they see
Speaker 1: that the cup is being held by manicured So the
Speaker 1: purp is a woman or a drag queen, I mean,
Speaker 1: but I mean, I guess they're kind of ruling it
Speaker 1: out it's a woman. So they figure out the location,
Speaker 1: the game, schedule, the team color, and they narrow it
Speaker 1: down that this kid plays for the Bulldogs. Because I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I think I forgot to mention that when the kid
Speaker 1: comes into the bathroom, he's wearing a soccer uniform.
Speaker 3: So that's how they narrow it down that he plays
Speaker 3: for the Bulldogs.
Speaker 1: They check their schedule and they go to the game
Speaker 1: and they identify this boy on the tape as Shane Madden,
Speaker 1: who they're talking to the coach and he's like, he's
Speaker 1: our star forward. They said Shane got kicked out of
Speaker 1: the game that day for fighting and that his mom
Speaker 1: was there and she was wasted. Okay, so now we're
Speaker 1: at Shane's school where the principal. We meet the principal
Speaker 1: named Meredith Rice, and she points out Shane when he's
Speaker 1: at band practice. She says she doesn't have much interaction
Speaker 1: with him because he's such a good student, so, like,
Speaker 1: you know, she only sees the troublemakers.
Speaker 3: They asked Shane what happened.
Speaker 1: He kind of denies it at first, and then he
Speaker 1: says it was a stranger, that a stranger just came
Speaker 1: in and attacked him, and then when the kind of
Speaker 1: press them a little bit more, he's like, you guys
Speaker 1: suck and leaves, so he's mad. The principle kind of
Speaker 1: reiterates the claim that the mom is a drunk, that
Speaker 1: she came to career day wasted, which I kind of love.
Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of love a beautician who comes
Speaker 1: to career day a little bit sauce. I think that's fun,
Speaker 1: maybe not for the kid, but just in general for
Speaker 1: me as a TV watcher. And she works at a
Speaker 1: place called Creme de la Crop, and I was Liza,
Speaker 1: I was wondering, how you, having worked at a salon formerly,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about the name Creme de la crop.
Speaker 2: I hate it because crop sounds a lot like crap,
Speaker 2: like crop, I think of maybe even corn. Like I've
Speaker 2: never thought haircut equals crop, so I think it's a
Speaker 2: bad day.
Speaker 1: It is an old way to say, like, oh, she
Speaker 1: had short, closely cropped hair or something like that.
Speaker 3: It is an old school way, but like I hear
Speaker 3: what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I feel like Creme de la Crem would be a
Speaker 2: fine name, Like you didn't even need.
Speaker 3: A pun or fuck it, just call it Crem. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I got my hair done at Crem. Yeah, less money
Speaker 3: on the signage. Yeah, look we are we should literally
Speaker 3: be on shark Tank. Okay.
Speaker 1: They go to the salon. The mom is like really
Speaker 1: not that concerned. She's just like, my son is so hot,
Speaker 1: Like she's really obsessed with how attractive her son is,
Speaker 1: and like, no, wonder people are going out for him.
Speaker 3: He's hot.
Speaker 1: But then they're like, no, he was assaulted by a
Speaker 1: woman in the bathroom, and she's like what. Like then
Speaker 1: she kind of snaps out of it, and they ask
Speaker 1: the mother were there any non moms at the game,
Speaker 1: and she says Cindy Bellamy, Shane's old babysitter. So this
Speaker 1: is like a weird side note. They go talk to Cindy.
Speaker 1: She was like, I was at the game babysitting other kids.
Speaker 1: I'm a strict babysitter, but the kids have fun and
Speaker 1: twelve fifteen hours nothing to sneeze at. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: yes it is girl, sneeze at twelve fifteen hour. I
Speaker 1: was making twenty dollars an hour in the mid two thousands.
Speaker 1: Babysitting in New York. You got to move on up.
Speaker 1: That's just because it's like New York. Everything's more expensive.
Speaker 1: Didn't you get paid more in New York than twelve
Speaker 1: fifteen hour?
Speaker 3: So I works with an agency.
Speaker 2: So I made less than what you I think you
Speaker 2: would have made being a loose independent contractor of a babysitter.
Speaker 3: But I enjoyed the job. I think I only made
Speaker 3: like fifteen sixteen to be honest, still better than twelve fifty.
Speaker 1: I weirdly got so many of my babysitting jobs off Craigslist.
Speaker 1: I would put myself on Craigslist and be like, I'm
Speaker 1: an experienced babysitter, I'm a camp counselor all this stuff,
Speaker 1: and people would just contact me and I would like
Speaker 1: babysit for their families for years off of Craigslist.
Speaker 2: By the way, did I tell you my nephew is
Speaker 2: a camp counselor this year?
Speaker 3: You did? And okay, get me.
Speaker 1: It fills my heart with joy. Now my question is
Speaker 1: is his girlfriend going to or are they gonna write
Speaker 1: letters from camp?
Speaker 2: I haven't you know what. That's a good, good question.
Speaker 2: He's also going to college. I bet he's gonna have
Speaker 2: a few more girlfriends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 3: I hope she doesn't listen. I hope she doesn't listen.
Speaker 1: Lisa is not giving a good prognosis for this teen romance,
Speaker 1: so she looks great.
Speaker 2: I forgot that he did tell me people from his
Speaker 2: school do listen. But maybe they'll work it out. I
Speaker 2: don't care.
Speaker 3: I just I should not scale there beans. I bet
Speaker 3: he doesn't even know. I know that he has a girlfriend.
Speaker 2: I was just stalking on Instagram and digging through everything. Well,
Speaker 2: he had a necklace with a half heart lego. That's
Speaker 2: a girlfriend. No, No, just friends walking around with a
Speaker 2: half heart lego.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. He's like, yeah, this is for
Speaker 3: me and my best guy friend. We just like love
Speaker 3: legos and we love friendship.
Speaker 1: So basically, Cindy's like a silly little red herring Like
Speaker 1: she's basically like, I would never touch a kid.
Speaker 3: I'm dating one of my professors. I like older men.
Speaker 1: And she basically steers suspicion back towards the mom. She's like,
Speaker 1: the mom is so drunk. I used to maybe sit
Speaker 1: for him, and he would. She would come home so
Speaker 1: wasted with a younger guy than she left with. She's
Speaker 1: into young guys, Like, so this is the this is
Speaker 1: like where they're trying to steer you. Craigan is incredulous.
Speaker 1: He's like, I woke up with plenty of regrettable bedmates
Speaker 1: in my drinking days, and I just like love the
Speaker 1: idea of Craigan waking up hungover and being.
Speaker 3: Like fuck not Deborah, Oh God, like you know.
Speaker 1: So they're like, go check out the mom again, like
Speaker 1: at the game, but I mean, Kraigan's kind of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like there's one thing is being a
Speaker 1: drunk and the other thing is like being a pedophile
Speaker 1: and an ancestral pedophile to your own child. So they
Speaker 1: go to a Bulldog's game and they find out that
Speaker 1: the sweatshirt that the Purp is wearing in the video,
Speaker 1: it's like this light blue sweatshirt. They it's actually a
Speaker 1: Booster Club sweatshirt, and every mom at the game has one.
Speaker 1: Like there's like twenty women at this game that have
Speaker 1: the same sweatsh.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love being like we got the evidence and it's like, uh,
Speaker 2: we all have Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Like that we sold these as merch basically, and there
Speaker 1: are dozens and dozens of these sweatshirts out there. And
Speaker 1: the drunk mom Missus Madden, also has one. She's wearing one.
Speaker 1: She's trying. She's drinking a Roadie like out of a
Speaker 1: plastic cup. Olivia's like, ma'am, have you been drinking? Can
Speaker 1: I check what's in your cup?
Speaker 3: And she's like oops and just spills all the booze
Speaker 3: out onto the ground. I mean, I kind of love her.
Speaker 3: She's really fun.
Speaker 1: Not to be a mom, not to be a mom,
Speaker 1: just to observe as a television character. Stabler notices that
Speaker 1: the principal, Meredith Rice, is over like in a far
Speaker 1: field talking to Shane. But this isn't a school team,
Speaker 1: so like, what would she be doing there? And we
Speaker 1: see Shane and the principal hug and then the principal
Speaker 1: leaves with another young boy, so Benson and Stabler follow
Speaker 1: her and they're like, hi, Principal Rice, what's going on?
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, this is my step son. She's
Speaker 1: acting super sketchy, like she's acting like she can't wait
Speaker 1: to get the hell away from them.
Speaker 3: They're kind of like why are you here? And she
Speaker 3: was like, oh, my son's.
Speaker 1: In an older league and so he plays, you know,
Speaker 1: in a field next door or whatever.
Speaker 3: And she's like, they're.
Speaker 1: Like, why were you talking to Shane And she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm guy, gotta go. We're late for a pizza party. Also,
Speaker 1: I know this is I mean, now I want pizza.
Speaker 2: But off topic, I wonder if these children know how
Speaker 2: lucky they are to be playing innermural sports at fucking
Speaker 2: a central park. I know, like the kids who's school
Speaker 2: or cams and sports are in Central fucking Park.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know if New York kids understand. No,
Speaker 3: they probably do.
Speaker 1: I got to play like softball ones in Central Park
Speaker 1: with like my Page program league, and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is so cool that I'm playing a game in
Speaker 1: Central Park right now, Like on the baseball you knew
Speaker 1: I recognized. I don't know about these kids, but I'm
Speaker 1: just think it's funny that she's like, officers were late
Speaker 1: for a pizza party. So if you guys like definitely
Speaker 1: want the cops to know that you're guilty, just tell
Speaker 1: them you're late to a pizza party because you couldn't
Speaker 1: think of a better excuse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could be late to a pizza party. No
Speaker 3: one cares. Nobody cares. The cheese is gonna be all
Speaker 3: cold and hard when we get there. We gotta go.
Speaker 1: And she keeps walking with her son like he's an
Speaker 1: elderly widow. She keeps like putting shawls around him and
Speaker 1: like ushering him away. It's just very very strange and funny.
Speaker 1: And so then now they're looking into the principle. The
Speaker 1: principal's got a stellar record, she's been married for seven years,
Speaker 1: she's got one step son. Finn and Munch chased down
Speaker 1: some footage of the game from two weeks ago, and
Speaker 1: there's no sign of the principle in the footage. But
Speaker 1: there is a full like still photo of Shane's mom
Speaker 1: falling into the mud when she tried to get involved
Speaker 1: in a fight, and she's not wearing her sweatshirt at
Speaker 1: that time, so that rules her out, like she wasn't
Speaker 1: wearing her sweatshirt that day. Finn goes to talk to
Speaker 1: the step son and he's like, I love her. I
Speaker 1: love my stepmom, Like you never hear this narrative, I
Speaker 1: love my stepmom. And then meanwhile Stabler goes to talk
Speaker 1: to Shane and gives him a business card and the
Speaker 1: number for al Teine, which is like alan On, like
Speaker 1: support groups for relatives of alcoholics. So he brings up
Speaker 1: the principal and Shane makes a face and then tries
Speaker 1: to leave, and so you're getting these sort of intercut
Speaker 1: interviews and then like back to the step son. They
Speaker 1: asked the step son, like, has anything been weird lately
Speaker 1: with your stepmom and your dad? And he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: they have been fighting lately, and they never fought before.
Speaker 1: And she said and he says, she even yelled at me,
Speaker 1: which I guess she's.
Speaker 3: Never really done.
Speaker 1: So they ask a bunch of teachers what's going on,
Speaker 1: and they I'll say, oh, she's pulled Shane from class
Speaker 1: a bunch recently. And once Shane had a note that
Speaker 1: looked like it was written by a kid, but missus,
Speaker 1: but Principal Rice confirmed it was her handwriting.
Speaker 3: So they're looking at all.
Speaker 1: Olivia is like going through this stack of like student
Speaker 1: reports that the principal files and notices that like, progressively
Speaker 1: throughout the time, Meredith's signature is getting like sloppier and sloppier.
Speaker 1: So that's just like a little hint for what we
Speaker 1: find out in the future. At Principal Rice's house, Stabler
Speaker 1: reveals that Meredith and Shane have now both gone missing. Okay,
Speaker 1: he tells, uh, the husband, we think your wife has
Speaker 1: been molesting this boy, Shane. And when he asks, do
Speaker 1: you have any suspicions about her behavior with your son,
Speaker 1: the guy takes a swing at Stabler.
Speaker 3: Not a great move.
Speaker 1: If you swing at Stabler, you better be sure you
Speaker 1: don't miss, because he's going to put you in a headlock.
Speaker 3: And that's what he does.
Speaker 1: And he does admit something's changed in my wife. She
Speaker 1: hasn't been herself. She's been preoccupied. She snaps at little things,
Speaker 1: and she's a tiger in the bedroom, just cannot get
Speaker 1: enough sex. So basically, their car is missing from their garage.
Speaker 1: She's taken the car and Shane and they get a
Speaker 1: call that they're on a highway in New Jersey.
Speaker 3: Someone spotted the car with the license te number.
Speaker 1: Like twelve cop cars and a helicopter show up. This
Speaker 1: is how important it is to rescue this boy. It's
Speaker 1: a full operation. It reminds me of like the final
Speaker 1: scene of The Undoing, if you've seen that. And when
Speaker 1: they get they get open the car door, they grab
Speaker 1: Shane and Meredith is like in the backseat of the
Speaker 1: car throwing up, so they arrest her.
Speaker 3: So this is like very weird, like what's going on?
Speaker 3: Are you drunk?
Speaker 1: Why are you barfing? Like it's you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot happening here. So when they are in interrogation, Benson
Speaker 1: is taking a run at this woman okay, at Principal Rice,
Speaker 1: and she's like, my head is splitting, and she says
Speaker 1: she knows what she's been doing is wrong. She says
Speaker 1: that the soccer game two weeks ago was the first time,
Speaker 1: and she fed him into the bathroom because he was
Speaker 1: crying and she wanted to check on him. And the
Speaker 1: next thing she knew, they were having sex. So I
Speaker 1: don't know she's blacking out or what, but she's obviously
Speaker 1: that's from what you see on the video.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like there was a romancing. It was just
Speaker 3: started happening. She says.
Speaker 1: The first time he resisted, but after that he couldn't
Speaker 1: get enough. So they're like, okay, do you always take
Speaker 1: orders from sixth graders? And she's basically like when and
Speaker 1: when you say sixth grade, like the kid looks a
Speaker 1: little bit older. To me, but like when you say
Speaker 1: sixth grade, I'm like, Dan, that is so freaking young,
Speaker 1: Like that's really really awful.
Speaker 3: So she's spiraling out. She's like, my life is a
Speaker 3: nightmare and I don't know why.
Speaker 1: And then suddenly she lunges at Stabler and starts making
Speaker 1: out with him. He slams her against a wall and
Speaker 1: she starts having a seizure. I mean he slams her
Speaker 1: against the wall in a way of like get off
Speaker 1: of me, lady.
Speaker 3: And then she starts having a seizure.
Speaker 1: Now that's considered I guess, sort of an attack on
Speaker 1: a suspect.
Speaker 3: So Ed Tucker shows up.
Speaker 1: Everybody's hated IAB guy at this point in the series.
Speaker 3: Everybody hates him obviously.
Speaker 1: Later people warm up to him, and Elliot's like, I'm
Speaker 1: waiting for my rep and he brings up He brings
Speaker 1: up Stabler's interview from Slaves actually where he talks about
Speaker 1: dreaming about killing pedophiles. So it's like, you're a person
Speaker 1: we know likes to rough people up. You know, You're like,
Speaker 1: we've got a little red flag on you. Over at
Speaker 1: IAB Stabler. The doc comes out and says they found
Speaker 1: something on her CT scan. They're rushing her to surgery now,
Speaker 1: and then it turns out she has a brain tumor
Speaker 1: the size of a base ball. So now Novak is
Speaker 1: talking to her surgeon, who is doctor Anne Marilla played
Speaker 1: by Julie white Is. This character has been in five
Speaker 1: SVU episodes and is a recurring brain surgeon.
Speaker 3: It seems she's a proestional. Yeah.
Speaker 2: She was stretching in a way where I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you did just get out of a lung surgery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because she was like, it took us eight hours,
Speaker 1: but it looks like we got it all. And I'm
Speaker 1: glad you noticed her stretching. Well, it was so good,
Speaker 1: it was really.
Speaker 3: Novak is like itching for an arraignment.
Speaker 1: She's like, I need to arrange this woman quickly, and
Speaker 1: the doctor's like, well, she's not going anywhere for five
Speaker 1: or six days, and Novak's like, no problem, We'll get
Speaker 1: a judge and a clerk down here for a pedside arraignment.
Speaker 3: And the doctor's kind of like hold up.
Speaker 1: Novak, like, you know that the damage to the frontal
Speaker 1: lobe can diminish impulse control, and she still she knows
Speaker 1: it's wrong, but the tumor is affecting the area of
Speaker 1: the brain that controls behavior. So there's like a difference
Speaker 1: between action and thought in this situation. And the doc says,
Speaker 1: you know, it's possible that she might not be a
Speaker 1: pedophile anymore post surgery, this might not be like an.
Speaker 3: Issue for her.
Speaker 1: Novak is chatting with Wang, this is what are I
Speaker 1: gonna do? Write a note that says, please excuse Meredith
Speaker 1: for molesting boys.
Speaker 3: She had a bad.
Speaker 1: Tumor good one, Novak and Huang says, it's a really
Speaker 1: good case for acquired sociopathy. Meanwhile, three other victims have
Speaker 1: come forward at this school. One said that Meredith hugged
Speaker 1: and kissed him, and the other two said they were fondled.
Speaker 3: So she's been doing this a bunch lately, and it's.
Speaker 1: All happened like lately, because she says that this game
Speaker 1: two weeks ago was the first time that she even
Speaker 1: did anything with Shane. Huang argues that she lacked the
Speaker 1: mens rehea to be accountable for her actions, But did
Speaker 1: she act on those tendencies before the tumor or are
Speaker 1: the tendencies still there?
Speaker 3: Nobody knows.
Speaker 1: She wants to do anything to clear her name, so
Speaker 1: she submits to doing brain mapping, which is like an
Speaker 1: experiment where they're going to like put VR goggles on her,
Speaker 1: so they're going to show her sexual images of children
Speaker 1: and see what it does to her brain, like if
Speaker 1: her brain responds. She claims like she's fine now, I
Speaker 1: would never do anything like this. I know the damage
Speaker 1: it can cause, and admits that she was molested starting
Speaker 1: at age eight.
Speaker 3: For four years by her grandfather.
Speaker 1: So after the scan the brain mapping, she shows no
Speaker 1: signs of arousal at these images. She's basically no longer
Speaker 1: a threat to society. And Novak says it has to
Speaker 1: pass the Dobert test to be admissible. So just FYI,
Speaker 1: the Dobert standard is a rule of evidence regarding the
Speaker 1: admissibility of expert witness testimony. You may have heard it
Speaker 1: referred to as the Fried standard. That's what I remember
Speaker 1: learning when I was growing up, and that is the
Speaker 1: law in certain states, California being one of them. But
Speaker 1: the Dobert standard is now the law in federal court
Speaker 1: and in over half.
Speaker 3: Of the states.
Speaker 2: So just so you know, thank you for explaining that, Kara,
Speaker 2: because I had no idea and was not going to
Speaker 2: look it at so thanks so much for helping me
Speaker 2: and the listeners.
Speaker 1: So Huang points out that her handwriting has gone back
Speaker 1: to normal after the surgery. So that's when we saw
Speaker 1: earlier her handwriting getting all sloppy. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: after you have a stroke or you have like a
Speaker 1: neurological incident, your handwriting can change.
Speaker 3: And so her handwriting's back to normal.
Speaker 1: And Huang explains that her own molestation as a child
Speaker 1: lowered her set point, so she was basically predisposed to
Speaker 1: something like this. Craigan said he found a similar case
Speaker 1: in Virginia where the tumor was found when the man
Speaker 1: was in jail, they removed it, he was released, and
Speaker 1: a year later he molested again because the tumor had
Speaker 1: grown back.
Speaker 3: So Novak is like pretty stuck on this. She doesn't
Speaker 3: really know what to do here.
Speaker 1: They're in talks now with her lawyer, who is Cleo
Speaker 1: Conrad aka Jill Marie Lawrence seventeen episodes of SVU, A
Speaker 1: classic defense attorney. They offer her Rape three, which is
Speaker 1: five years of probation and periodic psych and medical evaluation,
Speaker 1: and Meredith is not allowed to have any future contact
Speaker 1: with the victims, and.
Speaker 3: She has to register as a sex offender. She takes
Speaker 3: the plea.
Speaker 1: Her lawyers like, don't do it, like she'll never be
Speaker 1: able to work with children again, and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: the children need to be protected in case something does
Speaker 1: happen again, and she takes the plate. So Stabler goes
Speaker 1: to visit Shane and he seems really sad. He has
Speaker 1: dropped out of band, dropped out of soccer, and said
Speaker 1: Jason Rice, who has Meredith's step son, slugged him in
Speaker 1: the cafeteria for breaking up his family, not really his fault.
Speaker 1: And Shane is sad that Meredith won't talk to him
Speaker 1: because he's like, I.
Speaker 3: Thought she loved me.
Speaker 1: He thought he was like in a relationship with this woman,
Speaker 1: which is sad, and he's like I just want to die,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like, I'm going to get you some help,
Speaker 1: and they basically are like, yeah, he's going to need
Speaker 1: a lot of therapy, and like there's not good odds
Speaker 1: that he'll have a healthy sex life, and there are
Speaker 1: good odds that he'll become an offender because the cycle
Speaker 1: of abuse just kind of like rages on. And then
Speaker 1: they get a call about an incident at Meredith's house
Speaker 1: the principal.
Speaker 3: So they head.
Speaker 1: Over there and missus Madden is there. I love that
Speaker 1: we get to see her one more time. Shane's mom
Speaker 1: is there. She's wasted. She has attacked Meredith and said
Speaker 1: that Meredith has tried to call Shane.
Speaker 3: And they're like, why did you call him? You know
Speaker 3: that that's part.
Speaker 1: Of your deal that you're not allowed to have any
Speaker 1: contact with any of your victims, and she's like, he
Speaker 1: had a right to know.
Speaker 3: I'm pregnant.
Speaker 1: So that's fucking nuts that this principle is pregnant with
Speaker 1: her sixth grade students baby. Missus Madden wants the baby terminated,
Speaker 1: and they're like, why did you call Shane. She's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. My husband's leaving me, my stepsone won't
Speaker 1: talk to me. I lost my home, my job, and
Speaker 1: the irony is all I've ever wanted is a baby
Speaker 1: of my own. And I guess it's like, be careful
Speaker 1: what you wish for, because now you have that baby
Speaker 1: and you have literally nothing else.
Speaker 3: Do you think she's gonna keep the baby?
Speaker 1: I do?
Speaker 3: Cool?
Speaker 1: Yeah, this episode like it's it's like I think it's
Speaker 1: sad because I like about this episode as I think
Speaker 1: that it, Like I really hate shows like that sexify
Speaker 1: having sex with your teacher, like making it like super hot,
Speaker 1: Like I don't I hadn't even watched a Teacher on Hulu,
Speaker 1: but I was like so annoyed that they made it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how many more of these are we gonna make?
Speaker 1: We're gonna be like, there's already a couple other svus
Speaker 1: about this, like just making it like sexyed or cool.
Speaker 3: To be in a relationship with your teacher.
Speaker 1: And I think in this one they really show how
Speaker 1: it fucks Shane up and it's not good. It's not
Speaker 1: cool or hot to bang your principle or your teacher. Agreed,
Speaker 1: But let's take a little break and then, Lisa, I'm
Speaker 1: excited for you to take us through the true crime.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're going to dig into this.
Speaker 2: So October two thousand and two, the BBC News reports
Speaker 2: that a brain tumor caused a forty year old man
Speaker 2: to become obsessed with sex and molesting children. He was
Speaker 2: a married school teacher from the US who had no
Speaker 2: previous history of sexual offenses. He was married to his
Speaker 2: second wife and lived with her daughter, who was his stepdaughter.
Speaker 2: Everything is good and then he did end up having
Speaker 2: an excized tumor in the right lobe of the orbio
Speaker 2: frontal cortex, and this is the part of the brain
Speaker 2: responsible for judgment, impulse control, and social behavior.
Speaker 3: Okay, so so far this is like exactly the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, except I guess it's a guy, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe not a principle.
Speaker 3: We don't know any information about him.
Speaker 2: So basically, guys, it's like we assume this man was
Speaker 2: British because all the press and articles about it are
Speaker 2: British spelling and British publications and their rules are different,
Speaker 2: so you don't learn about his name or identity. But
Speaker 2: everything about him is like, it's an American guy. It's
Speaker 2: an American guid, it's an American guy. So I have
Speaker 2: no idea what is going on. Yeah, and all the
Speaker 2: doctors that have been working with him were also in
Speaker 2: the US, so I don't know what's going on with Like,
Speaker 2: maybe the Brits are just like broke the story.
Speaker 3: We have a lot of psycle.
Speaker 1: I think we have like a lot of people that
Speaker 1: are in grad school for psych and stuff like that
Speaker 1: that listen to our podcast. So if you've studied this
Speaker 1: case and you know what's up with the American versus
Speaker 1: British representation. Let us know, because please, it's very confusing.
Speaker 2: Basically, his behavior what first started happening is he was
Speaker 2: secretly visiting child poor and abuse websites, and then he
Speaker 2: started going to massage parlors, and then his wife found
Speaker 2: out all of this stuff, and then she found out
Speaker 2: that he was making sexual advances towards his pre pubescent stepdaughter,
Speaker 2: and then she found his collection of like child sexual
Speaker 2: abuse images, so she evicted his ass. She was like,
Speaker 2: get the fuck out of here. You're trying to like
Speaker 2: rape our daughter, make advances. I found all this other
Speaker 2: like horrific stuff. You're out of here. So he was
Speaker 2: prescribed some madroxy progesterone, and that is a drug that
Speaker 2: regulates women's periods but also has been prescribed to patients
Speaker 2: with sexual disorders.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this sounds more British like, instead of throwing
Speaker 2: someone in prison, it's like, how do we help this
Speaker 2: person not be a fucking pedophile? So yeah, so they
Speaker 2: put him on this medication. But he was found guilty
Speaker 2: by the courts of molesting children and entered a treatment
Speaker 2: program for convicted pedophiles. He was then kicked out of
Speaker 2: the program after asking the women there for sex. Constantly,
Speaker 2: he was making answers towards the staff and all these
Speaker 2: other clients, and he was just like a mess.
Speaker 3: Okay, so they're like, you got to get out of here.
Speaker 1: Sorry, can I just ask at this point, they don't
Speaker 1: know about the tumor.
Speaker 3: They do, they do, they don't, Okay, they don't. You
Speaker 3: guys know, but they don't know yet.
Speaker 2: So so yeah, he was making all these advances. So
Speaker 2: he was kicked out and that obviously breaks the arrangement,
Speaker 2: so he has to go to jail. So it's like
Speaker 2: this treatment or the jail. You're getting kicked out of treatment.
Speaker 2: But the night before he was supposed to go into prison,
Speaker 2: he went to the hospital and said, I have a
Speaker 2: giant headache and I'm.
Speaker 3: Scared I'm going to rate my landlady.
Speaker 2: What So he was also having issues with balance also,
Speaker 2: and that's what actually gave the psychologist centrologists like, okay,
Speaker 2: something might be up, because they were all very skeptical
Speaker 2: and thought that he was just trying to avoid his
Speaker 2: impending incarceration.
Speaker 3: But they examined him because of the balance, and yeah,
Speaker 3: they did it.
Speaker 2: So this was at the University of Virginia, and then
Speaker 2: in his medical history it said he had a head
Speaker 2: injury in nineteen eighty four and was knocked unconscious for
Speaker 2: two minutes. They don't know if that is connected to
Speaker 2: the tumor or not, or help grow it. But that's
Speaker 2: that just a tidbit. So yeah, like I said, the
Speaker 2: neurologist and everyone was suspicious of the man's motives. But
Speaker 2: there were things legit wrong with him, like his balance
Speaker 2: and you know, stuff like that. And he also had
Speaker 2: weird handwriting issues. Okay, his feet were more widely spread
Speaker 2: than they should have been. One of his arms was stiff,
Speaker 2: and so they had emergency surgery. After an MRI scan
Speaker 2: showed that he had an egg sized tumor in his brain,
Speaker 2: they did more tests and found out he was unable
Speaker 2: to write and also would piss himself and not care
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: What in the time leading up to the pre finding
Speaker 1: the egg pre finding the egg.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he would be chatting and like trying to
Speaker 2: fuck all these people at the treatment center while just
Speaker 2: like pissing himself. He couldn't write, like he seemed alliterate
Speaker 2: as hell and just like a whore, Like, yeah, so
Speaker 2: those are the things that kind of helped. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: now everyone knows if you start acting different, it might
Speaker 2: be your fernial lobe, right, check it out. So they
Speaker 2: removed the tumor, and in seven months he completed his
Speaker 2: Sexaholics Anonymous treatment and was living again at home. But
Speaker 2: then done done October two thousand and one. So a
Speaker 2: year later this happened in two thousand. So October two
Speaker 2: thousand and one, he complained again about headaches and started
Speaker 2: to secretly collect porn again, the tumor had regrown. They
Speaker 2: didn't get all of it, so at like the little
Speaker 2: that was left grew again, so they removed it again
Speaker 2: and the behavior stopped again, but this time with like
Speaker 2: the second tumor, he went straight to the hospital before
Speaker 2: he did anything illegal or bad, so he understood that
Speaker 2: his new behaviors were unacceptable.
Speaker 3: But in his words, he would say, like.
Speaker 2: The pleasure principle overrode his restraint, and that's like what
Speaker 2: happened in the episode where she knew it was wrong
Speaker 2: but could not stop herself.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Doctors said that this was the first no case of
Speaker 2: pedophilia caused by a tumor, and two of the doctors
Speaker 2: from the University of Virginia who treated him said that
Speaker 2: the tumors can cause people to become sex offenders, but
Speaker 2: like only if it's a sudden change, Like if you
Speaker 2: were always a pedophile, you can't blame the tumor. So
Speaker 2: it's like if you're always been a sexual deviant and
Speaker 2: creepy and like harassing waitresses, and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: but the tumor. No, but you can blame the tumor,
Speaker 2: or like the tumor can cause it if you were
Speaker 2: an upstanding citizen did not want to rape children, and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden there's a change. So that's kind
Speaker 2: of like the tumor rule is it needs to be
Speaker 2: someone without a history of batship. And the doctors were
Speaker 2: saying that it's difficult to diagnose or find because we're
Speaker 2: dealing with the neurology of morality. It doesn't affect physical health,
Speaker 2: so a doctor might never suspect anything. So you might
Speaker 2: be living this nightmare and behaving in ways that you're
Speaker 2: not accustomed to, and you might be confused about it,
Speaker 2: but no doctor would see you acting different. It's just
Speaker 2: hard to detect because there's nothing actually physically happening.
Speaker 1: I think once you line up all of the pissing yourself,
Speaker 1: the handwriting, the like headaches, you know. I mean, my
Speaker 1: brother's a neurologists, and I feel like that's like most
Speaker 1: people start coming in with like headaches right like, and
Speaker 1: then you find out you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my friend used to date this guy who had
Speaker 2: like a bulging eye and we would always make fun
Speaker 2: of him behind his back, and then we felt bad
Speaker 2: because it was a tumor pushing his eye out.
Speaker 3: So go to the doctor. Guy, I'm glad you felt bad.
Speaker 2: The Atlantic had a piece that said, we take certain
Speaker 2: drives for granted, like if you're a hetero or homosexual,
Speaker 2: or aggressive non aggressive children or adults, and we think
Speaker 2: it's free choice, but biology can fuck with that. So
Speaker 2: just another thing to be grateful for that you have control.
Speaker 3: Over your action desires.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is the spooky part where sudden pedophilia
Speaker 2: shows that there can be hidden drives and desires that
Speaker 2: are luring and undetected. So even like the frontal lobe
Speaker 2: controls behaviors and impulse control and all of that, but
Speaker 2: these things could still be in your brain and you
Speaker 2: just know not to act on them.
Speaker 3: They're just like lying dormant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, so it could be in your brain and
Speaker 2: one tumor can leash shit all out of there, but
Speaker 2: it means it's in there. Like if it's not in
Speaker 2: there at all, your brain's not going to just suddenly
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's what they were saying with this
Speaker 1: woman is like because she had been molested, she had
Speaker 1: some you know, dormant issues that this tumor just sort
Speaker 1: of exacerbated and like, like you said, like unleashed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so when the frontal lobe is compromised, people with
Speaker 2: that becomes inhibited and wild behaviors can't emerge. And uh oh,
Speaker 2: it's just like hopefully you don't have fucked up dormant
Speaker 2: shit in your brain that's just gonna pop out, because
Speaker 2: that's my thing. Like did this guy like, yeah, we
Speaker 2: only use twenty percent of our brains. Who knows what's
Speaker 2: in there? Who fucking knows what's gonna pop out?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's also scary because this isn't the same. But
Speaker 2: there's front do temporal dementia and this happens to older patients,
Speaker 2: but they just lose control of their frontal and temporal
Speaker 2: lobes and they just can't control any of these impulses
Speaker 2: and so they start violating social norms.
Speaker 3: So it doesn't always have to be sexual.
Speaker 2: People can just start shoplifting in front of people or
Speaker 2: getting naked in public and so on.
Speaker 3: And you know, we're not.
Speaker 2: All educated in neurology, so you're probably like, grandma's gone nuts,
Speaker 2: and you're.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, bring her in, But like it's just it's
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 2: This is crazy to look at, and these cases are
Speaker 2: difficult because they do end up in court often, but
Speaker 2: it's not the perpetrator's fault because the brain has degenerated
Speaker 2: and there's no remedy offered by medicine in a lot
Speaker 2: of these cases, when you're like, if it's not a
Speaker 2: tumor that they can remove and it's just damaged to
Speaker 2: those parts of your brain, they can't.
Speaker 3: Do anything about it.
Speaker 2: So you're not actually responsible for your actions, but there's
Speaker 2: nothing they can do to help you.
Speaker 3: So what do you do with these people?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's like CTE also, like you have
Speaker 1: ct from having like a lot of head trauma right
Speaker 1: that can affect your frontal lobe. And like you see
Speaker 1: athletes that have done things like where they've murdered people
Speaker 1: or had you know, cted image and you can't even
Speaker 1: diagnose that until they're dead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as humans, we like to think like I
Speaker 2: don't gamble, so I'm strong willed. But not everyone is
Speaker 2: equally free to make socially appropriate choices. This isn't a
Speaker 2: morality olympic because you're not more or less in controller
Speaker 2: a better person or good if you're able to not
Speaker 2: engage in certain behaviors that are outside of our societal norms.
Speaker 3: But some people don't even have the.
Speaker 2: Option to make those choices, and so we should be
Speaker 2: more compassionate to people doing freaky shit in the streets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me personally, when I start gambling, I don't have
Speaker 1: that much self control.
Speaker 3: Really, I didn't know you were a gamble at it.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: You'll see when we go to Vegas eventually. Oh my god.
Speaker 3: I'm like, just let me a one hundred dollars. I'll
Speaker 3: give it right back to you. Like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: I get.
Speaker 2: Hell.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's your game? Roulette? That's okay, that's like the
Speaker 3: sillice of them all. Fuck do you ever win? Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm a hold them girl, but I get my
Speaker 2: ass kicked.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to play these games where I have
Speaker 1: to like I sometimes I play the games like blackjack
Speaker 1: where I there are like people at the table that
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you think I should do? And
Speaker 1: they're like stay. I'm like, okay, I just listened to
Speaker 1: their advice. Like I don't actually know what I'm doing
Speaker 1: with those games. But Roulette, I have my strategies even
Speaker 1: though it's a full game of chance and I'm completely delusional.
Speaker 3: And the show hacks.
Speaker 2: In one of the episodes, there's a scene where she
Speaker 2: gets a blackjack dealer to come to her house because
Speaker 2: she's so rich. She's like, I don't need to play
Speaker 2: with riff raff. This bitch comes here, and that's nice.
Speaker 2: Casinos are disgusting. People can smoke inside.
Speaker 1: I love that she has a personal dealer and she
Speaker 1: just plays blackjacket home.
Speaker 3: Oh amazing.
Speaker 2: And this is not based on this episode, but just
Speaker 2: something I'd like to add is there's another case of
Speaker 2: a man in August nineteen sixty six, Charles Whitman, who
Speaker 2: out of nowhere murdered thirteen people, wounded thirty two more
Speaker 2: like a full blown rampage murdering strangers, murdered his mother,
Speaker 2: stabbed his wife to death in her sleep, and then
Speaker 2: killed himself, and the medical examiner found a giant tumor
Speaker 2: in the front of his head.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So he was like an upstanding citizen and then out
Speaker 2: of nowhere, one tumor and so much damage.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the sociologist, doctor Sarah Good, she works with people
Speaker 2: who are at risk of turning thought into action, and
Speaker 2: most therapists don't work with these types of clients. But
Speaker 2: she basically believes there has to be a better way
Speaker 2: we can treat medical treat pedophiles medically.
Speaker 3: And this is controversial. I don't even know if I believe.
Speaker 2: In this, but she said an important aspect of pedophilia
Speaker 2: is sometimes people will realize they're a pedophile and they're
Speaker 2: not happy about it. You know, they're horrified, they're ashamed,
Speaker 2: they're grossed out there and there's nowhere they can reach
Speaker 2: out for help. There's multiple episodes on SVU based on this,
Speaker 2: and so you know, she's just like, there should be
Speaker 2: a place where people can go to get help on
Speaker 2: this before they do anything illegal and like damage people's lives.
Speaker 3: So that's just something to think about.
Speaker 1: But I don't know, Yeah, SV you really like just
Speaker 1: grabbed this one straight from this well. We talked to
Speaker 1: Neil Berr about this, like he read about this person
Speaker 1: and that's when he came That's how he came up
Speaker 1: with that idea for this episode.
Speaker 2: So and then I was on a flight and I
Speaker 2: watched a documentary called Crazy and Not Insane, and so
Speaker 2: randomly while working on this, I was on a flight
Speaker 2: and this happened to be one of the options on Delta.
Speaker 2: But doctor Dorothy Lewis could give Michael bad In a
Speaker 2: run for his money because obsessed with her.
Speaker 3: I am like fully in love with her.
Speaker 2: But she is kind of a revolutionary in terms of
Speaker 2: like neurology and brain stuff and attributing it to killers
Speaker 2: and diagnosing multiple personalities and just like that, there's more
Speaker 2: two criminals than just like bad.
Speaker 3: They're not just bad, They're not just crazy. There's like
Speaker 3: more to it.
Speaker 2: And it's kind of like in the show how she
Speaker 2: was predisposed to have these thoughts because she was molested
Speaker 2: and so a lot of criminals like have horrific childhoods. Yes,
Speaker 2: and then their frontal lobe that's fucked with, they're scarring
Speaker 2: all of it comes out, and so she was like
Speaker 2: laughed off the stand and not respected and really hated
Speaker 2: for a while in her career and now she's like
Speaker 2: a badass bitch.
Speaker 1: So if you're flying Delta anytime soon, check that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's brain damage and predisposition, like both of
Speaker 2: those twogether, and so she was able to, like she
Speaker 2: would meet clients and murders she's worked with Ted Bundy,
Speaker 2: she just wanted to see deeper within them.
Speaker 3: And so say what the name of the thing was
Speaker 3: crazy not insane. Yeah, doctor Dorothy Lewis, we love her.
Speaker 3: We stand. Oh it's on HBO Max.
Speaker 1: So if you want to just watch it, it's on
Speaker 1: HBO Max or HBO on Demand or whatever.
Speaker 3: Awesome.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for taking us through that extremely interesting crime.
Speaker 3: I'm very interested in that. And we'll be right back
Speaker 3: with our very special guests. Okay.
Speaker 1: Our next guest is a classic character actor. You've seen
Speaker 1: him in so many movies, TV shows, movies like Henry
Speaker 1: Fool An American Splendor. He's been in the Office, Homeland,
Speaker 1: and he plays an iconic character Arthur Tach in Difficult People,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite shows. But you may know him
Speaker 1: more recently as Wade Donato in Head check out our
Speaker 1: interview with James Orbanniac.
Speaker 2: We are very thrilled you might be one of our
Speaker 2: first Red Herrings that we've had on.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, very exciting, an essential part of the procedural.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we obviously wanted to talk to your character. Is
Speaker 1: this is a classic episode. A lot of people have
Speaker 1: asked us for this episode, and your character is just
Speaker 1: like the classic red herring which we love. Like you're
Speaker 1: putting cameras into bathrooms and you're a Europhiliac.
Speaker 3: I looked it up. You're a Europhiliac your character.
Speaker 4: Which is interesting because my real last name is Urbaniak,
Speaker 4: which is very similar to you your Opheliac. So I
Speaker 4: was meant to play the role clearly.
Speaker 3: Yes, for sure. So what did you think when you
Speaker 3: first got this script where you're.
Speaker 4: Like, okay, I thought this is so me, not in
Speaker 4: terms of acting, I may add not real life though,
Speaker 4: who knows, but yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 4: Played many Red Herrings on procedurals. I've been on a
Speaker 4: lot of procedurals. They are the bread and butter of
Speaker 4: the working actor.
Speaker 3: As you know, we noticed, Yeah, you've been on a lot.
Speaker 4: But I have sort of played a gallery of oddballs, freaks, sweirdos, pervs,
Speaker 4: occasionally really bad guys and then occasionally just unpleasant people.
Speaker 4: I'd say he's a bad guy, though he's not the
Speaker 4: primary BEG guy obviously, he's the classic red hiring who
Speaker 4: leads you to the really bad person. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: just thought of this is up my alley and I
Speaker 4: had done Criminal Intent the year before, where I played
Speaker 4: an evil doctor who was friends with a veterinarian and
Speaker 4: I had a kind of Madonna horror complex and I
Speaker 4: would invite women to have three ways with me and
Speaker 4: my doctor friend, and if they said yes, I would
Speaker 4: try to kill them because then they were not worthy
Speaker 4: of my love. Very ahead of the curve portrait of
Speaker 4: Toxic Man. But anyway, that was Criminal Intent, and then
Speaker 4: I looked up the dates. This is also funny these
Speaker 4: The SVU episode aired like literally a year to the
Speaker 4: day after the Criminal Intent episode. But as you know,
Speaker 4: the Law and Order franchise reuses a lot of actors.
Speaker 4: The original Law and Order used to reuse people like
Speaker 4: Dennis O'Hare was on it like six times, playing all
Speaker 4: kinds of people through the year. But I was very
Speaker 4: excited also just to do Law and Order, because that's
Speaker 4: also a rite of passage for every New York actor.
Speaker 4: It's like I finally did a Law and Order, so
Speaker 4: I was glad they were using you again.
Speaker 2: How did you react when you found out that Amy
Speaker 2: Siedaris was your sister?
Speaker 3: And then how did you feel working with her?
Speaker 4: I thought it was delightful.
Speaker 3: Did you know her in advance?
Speaker 4: No, I don't think i'd met her before, but she's
Speaker 4: a lovely person. And then literally, like a couple of
Speaker 4: years ago, I was on at Home with Amy Sedaris
Speaker 4: playing a funny characters to one off, and we had
Speaker 4: a little reunion. I'd run into her a couple of
Speaker 4: times since then, but I thought that was rather good casting.
Speaker 4: I think I think we land as brother and sister
Speaker 4: for some stranger. Completely, it's a funny Amy role because
Speaker 4: she's really playing it straight. It's not like I co
Speaker 4: meet a character.
Speaker 1: And she's just kind of like so desperately, like I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do.
Speaker 3: My brother's into this weird shit I just see and
Speaker 3: she lives on my couch.
Speaker 4: She reveals a little bit about her like we had
Speaker 4: Apparently we both had a messed up childhood. She sort
Speaker 4: of alludes to that without being too specific, So she's
Speaker 4: trying to make excuses for me.
Speaker 1: Speaking of working with other people, how was it getting
Speaker 1: shoved by Elliott Stabler and screamed at by Olivia Benson?
Speaker 3: Well, I got to say dreamation.
Speaker 4: So we're shooting on the sound stage where they have
Speaker 4: their offices and the holding cell set. So mister Maloney is, yeah, grabbing,
Speaker 4: and he pushing me against the bars. You know, going
Speaker 4: why didn't you you saw this happening? And you didn't
Speaker 4: tell anybody?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: And they said cut and they went the bars are bending.
Speaker 4: So it was wooden bars painted black movie magic and
Speaker 4: I'm I'm a skinny guy. I don't weigh a lot.
Speaker 4: So Maloney's pushing me against these bars and they're bending,
Speaker 4: and I thought, now, wait a minute. First of all,
Speaker 4: how long has this show been on the air. Couldn't
Speaker 4: mister Wolf just you don't need all iron bars? Just
Speaker 4: got like five of them for these close ups that
Speaker 4: won't bend against a scrawny character actor. But then they
Speaker 4: found the angle where the bars weren't bending. When I
Speaker 4: watched the episode again yesterday and I thought, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: there's the bars thought, but here's a great guy.
Speaker 3: Was he shoving you hard?
Speaker 4: No, no, no, just pushing me against some thin wooden
Speaker 4: dowels painted black and they bent a little bit against
Speaker 4: my massive back muscles. But he's a lovely guy, and
Speaker 4: then it's funny. I worked with him again. I did
Speaker 4: a pilot which didn't become a show, but I did
Speaker 4: a comedy pilot because as you know, he's great at
Speaker 4: really scary drama and he's also really great at comedy.
Speaker 3: Yes, we love him and wet hot Amon summer like
Speaker 3: he's he's.
Speaker 4: So fucking funny. And I did a comedy with him
Speaker 4: where we had like a little moment together that was
Speaker 4: really fun. So yeah, through the years, when gets reunited
Speaker 4: with one's law and order actors.
Speaker 2: Did you notice that he had a juicy booty way
Speaker 2: back then and you were ahead of the curve or
Speaker 2: you sho oh No.
Speaker 4: I was aware that it was a workplace environment. I
Speaker 4: was very ahead of the curve in terms of correct behavior.
Speaker 4: Seventeen years ago.
Speaker 2: One of my other favorite shows of all time is
Speaker 2: Sex and the City. And you do play another fetish.
Speaker 4: Another fetishy guy, not necessarily legally dubious, but perhaps morally dubious. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 4: I am the foot fetishist shoe salesman in season two.
Speaker 4: Very early season two name Buster named Buster, which is
Speaker 4: a funny because Buster of course Buster Brown, which I
Speaker 4: think it's a little joke on shoes. And then my
Speaker 4: Law and Order SVU character is named Wade, which I've
Speaker 4: always thought was perhaps a water related pun since season
Speaker 4: two Urine and they named him Wade, So I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think it was deliberate. That was a great Then
Speaker 4: Sex and the City was really fun.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: I just remember it was two and it wasn't quite
Speaker 4: the monolith it had become yet it had only been
Speaker 4: on one season. I think it was popular. I remember
Speaker 4: I got HBO after I got that gig so I
Speaker 4: could watch it. And it was directed by the independent
Speaker 4: film director Alison Anders, who's made some great features and
Speaker 4: was just doing that in TV as like a one off,
Speaker 4: you know. And I remember putting a shoe on Miss
Speaker 4: Davis and her gently suggesting that the way that actual
Speaker 4: shoe guys put shoes on, you know, you want to
Speaker 4: wiggle it a little bit. She gave me some advice
Speaker 4: and how to sell that I was a shoe. I
Speaker 4: was like, yeah, I guess I haven't really put shoes
Speaker 4: on women before in my how many decades of existence
Speaker 4: you got to learn these things?
Speaker 1: Well, another one of our favorite shows, also New York based,
Speaker 1: Difficult People.
Speaker 4: I mean, thank you, yeah, and that actually so. I
Speaker 4: was a very old friend of Julie Klausner's. I've known
Speaker 4: her for years.
Speaker 1: Who I've met Julia a couple of times, and I'm
Speaker 1: a huge fan of hers. I just always think she
Speaker 1: thought she was so smart and funny, and I've read
Speaker 1: her book and love her.
Speaker 4: Well, and I thought she was very smart because she
Speaker 4: casts me, if you'll note, as a non weirdo, non person,
Speaker 4: you are like the stable boy in terms of the
Speaker 4: universe of that show. I think I'm the most normal character,
Speaker 4: or of the nicest. He's the most grounded, Arthur.
Speaker 3: He's so funny, and the little nicknames he has.
Speaker 4: For her, everybody loves the nicknames funny.
Speaker 3: Such a funny runner, Liza.
Speaker 1: I believe you wanted to ask this question about Difficult People?
Speaker 4: Oh please?
Speaker 3: Yeah? How is it working with the Bassett Hounds?
Speaker 4: The Vasset Hounds were fun. Now, of course in real
Speaker 4: life Julie has cats, but I guess she felt masset
Speaker 4: hounds are very theatrical. They're kind of funnier than cats.
Speaker 4: I gets the basset hounds were fun. There was a
Speaker 4: trainer who was a very quiet, intense man who would
Speaker 4: just stand there, you know that bartender stare when they're
Speaker 4: really busy and they're not really looking at you, and
Speaker 4: they're very deliberately like like a horse with blinders on.
Speaker 4: That's what he was like. He was so focused on
Speaker 4: the dogs. You couldn't even smile at him, and he
Speaker 4: would just stand there very intensely, and you know, do
Speaker 4: whatever they had to do. If they had to sit
Speaker 4: in the couch, he'd be there to make sure they
Speaker 4: sat in the couch, and then it was done, he
Speaker 4: give them their little treat. So I was fascinated by
Speaker 4: the trainer guy, who you know, was always in those suits.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you have been in a bunch of these
Speaker 1: fun New York shows. But if you were to go
Speaker 1: back to ask for you, what's a role you'd want
Speaker 1: to play? You've played the weird even well, you're you're
Speaker 1: a feeling this is crazy, ladies. But I have never
Speaker 1: played a lawyer. I don't think I've ever played a
Speaker 1: lawyer on a show.
Speaker 4: I love wearing a suit. I love wearing a suit
Speaker 4: on camera or on stage. I want to you know,
Speaker 4: objection leading. I want to be one of those guys.
Speaker 4: Yeahn I could see as played a judge on The
Speaker 4: Good Wife. He was a young, dashing judge obviously, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: cool judge, and I was like, wait, I'm going straight
Speaker 4: to judge. I want to be lawyer. So I would
Speaker 4: want to be a lawyer on like any procedural.
Speaker 2: Actually, do you have a preference on if it's a
Speaker 2: defense attorney or a DA No?
Speaker 4: No, And actually, in my tradition, i'd want to press
Speaker 4: be defending a bad person.
Speaker 2: Uh, I see it, I see it happening. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I kind of one of the girls from casting at
Speaker 2: SU does listen to the podcast we do DM Sometimes.
Speaker 4: It's been a long time since toilet Boy, so no
Speaker 4: one's going to remember I'm you know, and hey, maybe
Speaker 4: toilet boy turned it around and became an attorney. Changed
Speaker 4: his name, makes.
Speaker 3: Sense, right, Yeah, got out of jail, Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 4: Good behavior, good behavior.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, I don't know if you
Speaker 2: know this, James, but we are both virgos.
Speaker 4: Yes, I sure am.
Speaker 2: And we just saw a post online recently, and so
Speaker 2: many serial killers.
Speaker 3: A lot of killers are virgos anything else.
Speaker 4: I don't follow the astrology that closely, even though I
Speaker 4: am an actor who lives in la But aren't they aren't.
Speaker 4: Virgos supposed to be kind of precise and have certain
Speaker 4: organizational and organize which is ironic because I am in
Speaker 4: certain ways. But I'm also kind of a slob in general.
Speaker 4: I really had to learn how to be neat when
Speaker 4: I started living with people like my wife. But but
Speaker 4: I also have a very precise mind organism. Like I'm
Speaker 4: into old movies and stuff, and I can like name
Speaker 4: you obscure actors from the thirties, and I have a
Speaker 4: lot of information like that in my head. So I
Speaker 4: could see how that could pft be used the wrong way,
Speaker 4: much like my little man in as for you, who
Speaker 4: immediately says the number of the tape that the that
Speaker 4: the crime is on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he knows exactly the time code. It's a lot.
Speaker 4: Then they read from his notebook and he's like describing
Speaker 4: the rear end of one of the unfortunate victims. And
Speaker 4: then he says, marigold yellow. He's got specific shades of
Speaker 4: urine color. Yeah, I mean, he's a disgusting person, but
Speaker 4: you got to give him that. He was a virgo
Speaker 4: and a virgin totalo ful verge. He's never had sex.
Speaker 3: That's a gold star. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you have anything coming hour that you're working on
Speaker 2: that you like to share with us?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Plug it up.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm in it. There's a Netflix movie called Things
Speaker 4: Heard and Scene or is it Things Seen and Heard
Speaker 4: ghost Story?
Speaker 3: Who else is in that? Amanda cried yes, and is
Speaker 3: Michael o'ke.
Speaker 4: Michael O'Keeffe is in it, and Karen Allen's in it.
Speaker 1: We interviewed and Michael O'Keefe, Caroen Allen, Amanda Seyfried, James
Speaker 1: Orbaniac all s.
Speaker 4: An upstate New York movie. It's it's set in the
Speaker 4: Hudson Valley, very beautiful part of the country, as you know.
Speaker 4: And I have a little part in that. I play
Speaker 4: Racy Horn's husband, Racy Horn from from from Medical so yeah,
Speaker 4: who is an old buddy of mine as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a it's a fun kind of ghost story
Speaker 4: and it's said in the eighties, So Ray and I
Speaker 4: are playing kind of baby boomer hippie generation people who
Speaker 4: are sort of landed in the Hudson Valley. I have
Speaker 4: a scene ry smoke pot, so that'll be out there.
Speaker 3: Kara, tell him the story with you and your husband.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is this goes to this goes to
Speaker 1: a story. Do you know Carol, Carol's really good friend
Speaker 1: Mindy Tucker.
Speaker 4: I do, indeed, And she took a great photograph of me,
Speaker 4: as she's taken of many people.
Speaker 1: Quick side note, Carol is a mutual friend of me
Speaker 1: and James is from New York. I'm just saying one
Speaker 1: time she was like explaining to me how how exciting
Speaker 1: it was to have like come from Alabama to New York.
Speaker 3: And she's like, I just can't believe. I used to
Speaker 3: watch like.
Speaker 1: The movie Henry fool and now I'm taking photos of
Speaker 1: James or Bainiac.
Speaker 3: And she's got this real She's.
Speaker 4: Got this real, very sick Alabama action.
Speaker 3: So she he love my husband and I who I
Speaker 3: think you've met as well. My husband. His name is
Speaker 3: Jared Logan. He's another comedian.
Speaker 1: He he and I would always just say James or
Speaker 1: Baniac like around the house in her accent. And then
Speaker 1: what he started doing is out of nowhere, sending me
Speaker 1: pictures of you from your IMDb on text and just
Speaker 1: going urbaniac attack.
Speaker 3: So we have a funny little joke about you in
Speaker 3: my house, and.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to tell you I love it.
Speaker 1: That if you look at my husband's and my text history,
Speaker 1: it's riddled with photos of you.
Speaker 4: James or maniac.
Speaker 1: All right, Lisa, post mortem time, what have we learned?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you are starting to slur your your
Speaker 1: signature and feel very attracted to thirteen year olds.
Speaker 3: Go get checked out. You need to go get a
Speaker 3: brain scan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wild that this could go undetected for forever,
Speaker 2: if you know, since there's not actually like physical medical problems,
Speaker 2: Like if you start acting different, definitely do something about it.
Speaker 2: Or if your friend starts acting different, call them out.
Speaker 2: Don't just be like, oh, all right, she's acting like
Speaker 2: a weirdo. Maybe, you know, like you have to help
Speaker 2: each other out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it. Also, like this episode really got.
Speaker 1: Me thinking about just like we need to protect our
Speaker 1: heads in general, like with sports and like with any
Speaker 1: kind of like when you have like a traumatic brain
Speaker 1: injury and stuff like just all that stuff needs to
Speaker 1: be looked at because it leads to bad behaviors sometimes like.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so my friend just got her driving permit
Speaker 2: and she took a photo at the DMV and it
Speaker 2: was a photo of like a person's body driving a car.
Speaker 2: But then it was a drawing of a watermelon and
Speaker 2: it said protect your melon, and she wrote like, aren't
Speaker 2: our heads like enough? Like why does it have to
Speaker 2: be a melon? Like I think it's compelling enough to
Speaker 2: protect our heads. You don't have to play any game
Speaker 2: with this, but okay, yeah, protect our heads. I don't
Speaker 2: know if this is something we can actually do. I mean,
Speaker 2: the NFL even doesn't buy the best helmets for their
Speaker 2: yeah players, saying because of money and deals, like there
Speaker 2: are better helmets that can protect football players and they
Speaker 2: refuse to use them for I don't know, commercial purposes
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: But of course, of course, you can also just get
Speaker 1: a tumor in your head, of course, But I'm just
Speaker 1: saying in general, you hear about CT and all this
Speaker 1: like horrible shit because people just let their noggins get
Speaker 1: bashed in all the time and it's not doesn't lead
Speaker 1: to anything good.
Speaker 2: Also, don't embarrass your child by being an alcoholic in
Speaker 2: public at their sporting events. Yeah, Like it sucks to
Speaker 2: be probably you know, suffering and being an alcoholic, but
Speaker 2: keep it off the playing field because it'll ruin your
Speaker 2: kids forever.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: As much as I love a road soda, I love
Speaker 1: drinking outside out of a you know, innocuous drinking vessel,
Speaker 1: like some kind of plastic solo cup.
Speaker 3: Don't do it at your kids' games. Now you can.
Speaker 3: You can have a few drinks. You can't drink absolutely,
Speaker 3: that is like social.
Speaker 2: If your kids have two three softball games and one
Speaker 2: Saturday afternoon, you can have some white clause at the game.
Speaker 3: We're talking full on. You just sit and take it
Speaker 3: too far. Yes, this is for alcoholics only.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, if you're someone that does not struggle with alcoholism,
Speaker 2: you can get drunk as long as you behave I
Speaker 2: just we both have a friend. I'm like, I'm very
Speaker 2: close to the person whose mother is an alcoholic and
Speaker 2: him being embarrassed constantly by her in public, like years
Speaker 2: of therapy because he loves his mom and people liked her,
Speaker 2: but like the embarrassment and covering for her and people
Speaker 2: pleasing and like it really affected his personality and how
Speaker 2: he acts towards others. Being embarrassed constantly with his mom
Speaker 2: at sporting events. I think that's why this came to me,
Speaker 2: this last post mortem bit, because I know someone that
Speaker 2: it really affected them, being like humiliated constantly. Also, if
Speaker 2: your brother is a freak, you got to turn him in.
Speaker 2: You can't just let you know, you can't just let
Speaker 2: a pervert.
Speaker 3: On your couch and yeah, yeah, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: I think you can also set some boundaries with a sibling, like, look,
Speaker 1: I know that I am the pre eminent New York
Speaker 1: City pecam purveyor, but I can't give them to you
Speaker 1: to do that with them, Like I'm sorry, you can't
Speaker 1: use your sister's talent to feed your I mean, I
Speaker 1: want to say hobby, but that's kind of like it's
Speaker 1: not really a hobby. Is It's just a criminal It's
Speaker 1: just a criminal hobby. Now when I look at my PM,
Speaker 1: always like Marrigold yellow.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, me too.
Speaker 2: I've been being I've been like, I wonder what James
Speaker 2: Urbaniac would feel about this color of p or his
Speaker 2: character Wade. But also, even if you are doing something
Speaker 2: illegal and something terrible happens, you need to get over
Speaker 2: yourself and help you said it an anonymous something like.
Speaker 3: Say something say something, for fuck's sake, come on.
Speaker 2: Always, you know, it's always like, but I had coke
Speaker 2: in my pocket, so I didn't want to and it's
Speaker 2: like no one cares about your cocaine and someone is
Speaker 2: like choking to death.
Speaker 1: You know, like right, get over yourself. This kid is
Speaker 1: being abused. Anonymous tips are important.
Speaker 2: Also, if you're a kid that gets to be in
Speaker 2: Central Park, you better fucking enjoy it.
Speaker 3: So cool.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now let's get into our what would Sister Peg do? Segment,
Speaker 1: our weekly segment where we give you some more resources
Speaker 1: or organizations that can inform what you learned about in
Speaker 1: today's episode. Today we want to highlight an organization called
Speaker 1: Male Survivor. It is a five A one C three
Speaker 1: a nonprofit, public benefit organization committed to preventing, healing and
Speaker 1: eliminating all forms of sexual victimization of boys and men
Speaker 1: through support, treatment, research, education, advocacy, and activism. Their website
Speaker 1: is male Survivor dot org.
Speaker 3: So check them out and then next week.
Speaker 2: We will be covering the episode I Deserve Some Loving too.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is a war and light year.
Speaker 2: So if you want to count those letters or I'll
Speaker 2: tell you it's season twenty one, episode fourteen again always
Speaker 2: on Hulu, Peacock, your local library, spend some cash on Amazon,
Speaker 2: get a collector's DVD, and we will see you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
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Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton.
Speaker 1: And to our sound engineer and personal hero Analie Snilson,
Speaker 1: and to.
Speaker 3: Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews
Speaker 3: for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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