Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to
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Speaker 1: outrageously dependable. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host
Speaker 1: of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your
Speaker 1: host into the world of hunting the icon of the
Speaker 1: North American wilderness. Prepare. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation.
Speaker 1: We will also bring you into some of the wildest
Speaker 1: country on the planet. Chasing their Rusty Johnson. Rusty Johnson
Speaker 1: is a longtime friend of mine and I've always had
Speaker 1: a ton of respect for him as a white tail hunter.
Speaker 1: I don't there's there's not another person that puts in
Speaker 1: more energy, that has more passion and love for bow
Speaker 1: hunting whitetail deer than Rusty Johnson. So we have a
Speaker 1: really good discussion, a timely discussion because it is go
Speaker 1: time for white tails, and we have a timely discussion
Speaker 1: about all things dear hunting, his philosophies, my questions and philosophies,
Speaker 1: and uh, just a fast paced conversation that you're gonna enjoy. Hey,
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Speaker 1: let's get to the conversation with old Rusty Johnson, the
Speaker 1: white Tail Ninja. Rusty. They have an Instagram group called
Speaker 1: white Tail Warfare, so you can check them out on Instagram. Man, Rusty,
Speaker 1: this is uh, this has probably been a long time
Speaker 1: coming having you on the podcast because you you have
Speaker 1: been an influential figure in my white tail world for sure. Uh.
Speaker 1: We were just Kobe. We were just looking at that
Speaker 1: buck right there. That's the way I met Rusty Johnson
Speaker 1: two thousand seven. You how long have you scored for
Speaker 1: Poping Young? So a score. Yeah. I started for Poping
Speaker 1: Young in two thousand four. I also score for buck Masters,
Speaker 1: and I started with them in not teen ninety five.
Speaker 1: It was the very first year that they started the
Speaker 1: record keeping. Uh yeah, and I started with him. I
Speaker 1: was in the very first class with the Masters in
Speaker 1: I'll be done. It was in the very first class.
Speaker 1: My score numbers number nine. Yeah, and uh I've done
Speaker 1: a lot for them and uh enjoyed every bit of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well so this is the way this. Let me tell
Speaker 1: you how Rusty so he scored that deer for me
Speaker 1: back in oh seven, and that was the first big
Speaker 1: deer ever killed, Rusty. I mean I'd killed it. I
Speaker 1: guess I'd killed the uh, you know, a hundred twenty
Speaker 1: five inch deer before, which for us is a big
Speaker 1: deal for Arkansas bowdive inch deer Northfolk, Arkansas. I'd spend
Speaker 1: my whole season every year trying to kill a deer
Speaker 1: like that, just to set the record straight. But that
Speaker 1: deer was a hundred and sixty inch plus, dear. I
Speaker 1: remember I brought it to you and your dad up
Speaker 1: at uh what was the name of that sporting good
Speaker 1: story sportsman's warehouse. We used to call it the Temple. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we called it. We called it the Temple. Let's go
Speaker 1: to the Temple. That was back before the internet when
Speaker 1: we ordered everything online. But going to a sporting goods
Speaker 1: store was like a big deal. And you have me
Speaker 1: meet you up there. But anyway, we've been good buddies
Speaker 1: ever since that. We've never really hunted together, but we've
Speaker 1: Every year we stay in touch about what's going on
Speaker 1: in and we sport some we score some contests together.
Speaker 1: Yeah you're you know, your official score now and everything.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we started doing that and I enjoy that
Speaker 1: every year when yeah, that's kind of annual rendezvous. Uh,
Speaker 1: when I meet up with you and your son. Rustin,
Speaker 1: who's a friend of mine too, is a good deer hunter. Um.
Speaker 1: But now, hey, Kolbe, this guy is a very good
Speaker 1: deer hunter, like top level deer hunter. Really, he puts in,
Speaker 1: he puts in as much effort as anybody into inside
Speaker 1: the hunting seas and I do put a lot of
Speaker 1: time in. Yeah, and that's I mean, that's what I
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about. So, like, the cool
Speaker 1: thing about this conversation is it's gonna air tomorrow, which
Speaker 1: what's today? They of October sounds right, Um, So it's
Speaker 1: gonna come out on maybe the twenty ninth of October,
Speaker 1: which is like, I mean, this is the time that
Speaker 1: we wait for all year long. Yeah, you're lucky that
Speaker 1: I'm here exactly. Yeah. Yeah, this was just to give
Speaker 1: a little context. This was totally spur of the moment.
Speaker 1: I knew something that Rusty was doing. I knew it
Speaker 1: was raining, and I was like, hey, would you come
Speaker 1: over here and let's talk about white tails. Yeah. I've
Speaker 1: been hunting daylight to dark pretty much every day, rain
Speaker 1: or not. And uh, I was gonna take just a
Speaker 1: little bit of a break and it was perfect time.
Speaker 1: And yeah, well right on that. Uh man, what okay,
Speaker 1: let me ask you a question. Do you I was
Speaker 1: thinking yesterday because I've got a dear story. I want
Speaker 1: to tell you, Okay, that happened on October yesterday. Do
Speaker 1: you do you remember dates really well when it comes
Speaker 1: to deer hunting? Uh? Not really, not specific dates. Okay,
Speaker 1: Like with deer, Like, could you like go through a
Speaker 1: catalog and say I killed that deer on that day,
Speaker 1: that deer on this day, saw that deer on that
Speaker 1: that Yeah, I could probably like take you to my
Speaker 1: trophy room and pointed each deer and say, hey, I
Speaker 1: killed that when November the seven, that whatever. You know.
Speaker 1: I could probably do that, But as far as like
Speaker 1: seeing deer, I've either got to write it down or
Speaker 1: log it in my phone or something, cause I don't
Speaker 1: have that good memory. Well, I was gonna say, there's
Speaker 1: about a fourteen day window during the year that I
Speaker 1: remember dates really well, and that's from October about November
Speaker 1: t fifteen days there. And I can recall like like
Speaker 1: when close hunting buddies saw a buck, like my father
Speaker 1: in law followed him real close in white to Huney. Well,
Speaker 1: I remember a deer that he killed on October. I
Speaker 1: remember like sightings and like anyway, well, I don't think
Speaker 1: I do. I just I think it's it's really interesting
Speaker 1: to me how like you can key in under this
Speaker 1: one little little little section of the calendar and be
Speaker 1: so focused on it. Here's what I Here's something I
Speaker 1: did yesterday resting was like, we're looking at some of
Speaker 1: the deer that I've killed just here in the office.
Speaker 1: Like those deer easy to remember. What I want to
Speaker 1: remember and learn from is the big buck encounters that
Speaker 1: I had that I didn't kill the buck, like yesterday
Speaker 1: and last night. Because I came home from this encounter
Speaker 1: yesterday and I just thought, man, that was awesome. It
Speaker 1: was heartbreaking. And I know you've had some heartbreaks over
Speaker 1: the years. It was heartbreaking that I didn't kill this
Speaker 1: deer and I'll tell the story, but jeez, this buck
Speaker 1: read the script. Everything was perfect. It was a beautiful day.
Speaker 1: I mean like it just Almo's just kind of like
Speaker 1: waters slipped through my hands and I I got I
Speaker 1: wrote down seven let me see one, two, three, four,
Speaker 1: or five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven dates of
Speaker 1: deer that have happened just like that over the years,
Speaker 1: some of them not to the day, some of them
Speaker 1: just to the year in the general time frame. But
Speaker 1: I started thinking about the big buck encounters that got
Speaker 1: away from me. You've followed me, because you can learn
Speaker 1: just as much from those as you can the ones
Speaker 1: that are on your wall, Because like, I didn't kill
Speaker 1: that deer yesterday, but he he was there ready to
Speaker 1: be killed, but not. When's your favorite time to What's
Speaker 1: what's your favorite three days to hunt? Favorite three days? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd say, um, October thirty one, Novermber one Novermber second,
Speaker 1: that's my favorite, really, and that would be specifically for
Speaker 1: northwest Arkansas places. I would say Arkansas. In Kansas, of course,
Speaker 1: I hunt Kansas law. I didn't draw this year, but
Speaker 1: I hunt Kansas almost every year, and those three days
Speaker 1: right there are my favorite. The money days. Huh. I
Speaker 1: mean that's that's just my favorite days. I mean I've
Speaker 1: had the most encounters. I probably killed the most dear
Speaker 1: during those three days. Um. I probably couldn't nail down
Speaker 1: and tell you exactly why, but probably because it's right
Speaker 1: before they start really running around, you know, running five
Speaker 1: miles this direction, five miles that direction, because you know
Speaker 1: the days following that they really get wild. I mean
Speaker 1: they go to running around and stuff and they're not
Speaker 1: really there, you know, And to me, those three days
Speaker 1: are my favorite. So you think you can kill there
Speaker 1: that you kind of know about almost are just they're
Speaker 1: a little bit more predictable. Like is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1: I think so, yeah, yeah, but that's my favorite three.
Speaker 1: I would I would have to totally agree with those dates.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, especially if you're here, have you have
Speaker 1: you heard people talk about the peak conception dates for
Speaker 1: northwest Arkansas? I've heard a little bit about do you
Speaker 1: remember any of that? Because I know, okay, I just
Speaker 1: before I said this, I wanted to see if you
Speaker 1: had updated in Intel because there was a study that
Speaker 1: was done I don't know, ten twelve years ago maybe
Speaker 1: longer where they did a fetus study like road kill
Speaker 1: deer like pulling fetuses out, and they could track back
Speaker 1: conception and the peak conception dates in northwest Arkansas were like, uh,
Speaker 1: I want to say November the fifth through like November eight,
Speaker 1: which is sort of early, but it lines up real
Speaker 1: well with what you just said and what I would
Speaker 1: would see as well in terms of you know, from
Speaker 1: about right now through about November the sixth or seventh,
Speaker 1: it's really good. Yeah. Now if you opened it up,
Speaker 1: not just pin it down to three three days, you know,
Speaker 1: it would be just what you said. Well, we go
Speaker 1: like October twenty five through you know, November the six seventh,
Speaker 1: somewhere long and there. I mean there's a pretty good
Speaker 1: gap right there that I would like to be in
Speaker 1: a tree, you know, all day and you know I
Speaker 1: like to hunt all day long. I just don't like
Speaker 1: to get down. But that's that's what I would know
Speaker 1: you of as probably more than anything, Like there's characteristics
Speaker 1: of guys hunting. You love sitting all day? Tell me
Speaker 1: tell me your well, um, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean the strategy, My strategy goes really deep. You know.
Speaker 1: I like to shed hunt and that right there is
Speaker 1: the key to my strategy. When I'm shed hunting, I'm
Speaker 1: picking up antlers, but I'm also looking at potential hunting spots,
Speaker 1: even kneeling down a tree, because I mean, there's no
Speaker 1: more proof than getting a shed in your hand that
Speaker 1: there's a big buck in that area. So I mean,
Speaker 1: he could be in a mile radius, he could be
Speaker 1: in a five mile radius. But when you picked that
Speaker 1: shut up, you know he was there. So I started
Speaker 1: looking from that point. He was standing right there. So
Speaker 1: I started looking from that point, and I start looking at,
Speaker 1: you know, the lay of the land, and you know,
Speaker 1: you know, looking for their travel routes. And so if
Speaker 1: you can tell a whole lot, you know, like in
Speaker 1: February March, you can tell a lot about what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And that is where my strategy starts right there. So
Speaker 1: what do you tell me about what you're looking for
Speaker 1: inside of your honey? If you could still it down
Speaker 1: and even describe the train a little bit rusty, just
Speaker 1: because I mean people are listen to this, you know,
Speaker 1: if they're I don't know, there's no people could be
Speaker 1: from anywhere listening to this, but like, what's northwest Arkansas?
Speaker 1: Like what are you looking at so. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: these those aren't killed. Country bucks are really tough to hunt.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, if you're out there hunting, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna see twenty thirty deer. A see, you may
Speaker 1: not even see a deer on an all day hunt.
Speaker 1: They are really tough. But you know, everybody talks about
Speaker 1: the traditional you know, pinch points, saddles, all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, and you know they're good, but that's not
Speaker 1: what I'm looking for. I mean, these bucks like to
Speaker 1: travel on the side of ridges. Uh. There may be
Speaker 1: a lot of ridges that come together and they travel
Speaker 1: through that where there they may not be on the top.
Speaker 1: There may be scrapes on the top. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people like hunting scrapes, and I do hunt
Speaker 1: scrapes too, But I look off the beaten path. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you see like a really beat out trail coming
Speaker 1: around the edge of a ridge, you need to look
Speaker 1: either above it or below it. There'll be a real
Speaker 1: dim trail and that's where your buck is, and that
Speaker 1: may be fifty yards from the main trail. So you
Speaker 1: gotta look at things like that. I mean, it's not
Speaker 1: as simple as just going out there and finding a
Speaker 1: pinch point finding a saddle, although they're good, but I
Speaker 1: look for different things like trails on the side of
Speaker 1: the hill and uh a lot of times that's tough
Speaker 1: to bowl hunt. You have to, you know, put a
Speaker 1: game plan together to see how you're gonna you know,
Speaker 1: intercept that dear, because it's tough to hunt on side
Speaker 1: of a hill or like in the bottom and a
Speaker 1: ditch or something. But I try to hunt different things
Speaker 1: like that, and it's it's worked for me. What about
Speaker 1: doing like the the chase phase there up when these
Speaker 1: deer moving around so much, would you not hunt these
Speaker 1: real generic travel areas then? Uh? Yeah, I mean when
Speaker 1: they're chasing doughs and stuff, you know, the does are
Speaker 1: gonna be where food is. And when they're really chasing,
Speaker 1: I mean, I focus on food. I mean that's just
Speaker 1: that's just what I do. But I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: they're gonna go They're gonna run through pinch points and
Speaker 1: stuff like that and saddles. I mean, is still down
Speaker 1: what you're saying, because like like like right now, I
Speaker 1: feel like I need to be hunting it just the
Speaker 1: dough you know, just like hunting where the does are
Speaker 1: and the does are going into these kind of normal areas.
Speaker 1: So like, right now, are you hunting down like hunting
Speaker 1: kind of more obscure. Well, I'm right now, I'm hunting
Speaker 1: really close to a betting area, and I know the
Speaker 1: dos are beding there, and you know the place where
Speaker 1: they're feeding the most, it's probably about two yards from there.
Speaker 1: But I'm hunting really really close to the betting area,
Speaker 1: almost inside a little bit of the betting area. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, they got They're not gonna stand up all
Speaker 1: day long. I mean, they gotta bed at some point,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times they'll they'll just bed down
Speaker 1: where they're eating. But I try to. I I really
Speaker 1: push the limits. I mean I don't really hunt traditionally.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's hard to explain. Really, I mean,
Speaker 1: I just kidding. But now I'm not holding out. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying that, you know, I pushed the extremes. You know.
Speaker 1: I I times I hunt right in the middle of
Speaker 1: the betting area. And a lot of people say you're
Speaker 1: stupid for, you know, for just going in there and
Speaker 1: blowing deer out, But you know, and I may be stupid,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But let's describe what you like this
Speaker 1: beding area that you're in. What does it look like?
Speaker 1: It's just a really high stem count. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got really open woods. Uh, and it's it's terrain
Speaker 1: driven to I use on X a lot. It's got
Speaker 1: topo on it. And you know they'll bed down on
Speaker 1: the side of ridges. It may not even be a
Speaker 1: high stem count, but they really like high steem count
Speaker 1: because it makes them feel safer. Yeah, but a lot
Speaker 1: of times, uh, you know. And another thing is catching
Speaker 1: these big bucks in in the daylight and when they're chasing.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're gonna be chasing all day long, but
Speaker 1: why right before that those dates that I give you,
Speaker 1: you know they're not you know, cashman. Daylight's tough, I
Speaker 1: mean really tough. And you gotta get close to where
Speaker 1: they're bedding down to be able to catch them in
Speaker 1: that window right before they go back to bed in
Speaker 1: this big timber of the country like we're hunting, though.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard. It's hard for me to just
Speaker 1: pin down right where they're beding though, Rusty, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like just because it's like there's like
Speaker 1: you take this terrain like right here by my house,
Speaker 1: like there's real thick stuff just like right there, and
Speaker 1: then there's some open woods, but there's also real thick
Speaker 1: stuff like five yards from here. So it's like it's
Speaker 1: hard for me to know like exactly where they're bedding
Speaker 1: lock in open woods where you've got thousands of acres
Speaker 1: and there's no like per se betting area. I used
Speaker 1: to own some property and it was just in Missouri,
Speaker 1: and it was just big timber, and when we bought it,
Speaker 1: the very first thing we did was cut. We've done
Speaker 1: some selective cut, but we also drew on the mout
Speaker 1: areas where we wanted to create our betting area and
Speaker 1: we just basically clear cutted it and made a bedding area.
Speaker 1: But in this hill country and these those arcs, you
Speaker 1: can't do that. So I mean you just have to
Speaker 1: look for like specific terrain types. I mean like when
Speaker 1: I'm shed hunting, I find all kinds of bed and
Speaker 1: you would not believe the places where I find where
Speaker 1: they're bed And I mean some really steep ground, there
Speaker 1: may be a log they like laying by logs, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, blowovers, you know stuff like that. I mean
Speaker 1: I find all kinds of stuff like that, and and
Speaker 1: it gives me good ideas where to get when when
Speaker 1: deer season gets here. Any consistency, and I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess shed hunting though you're finding that these are these
Speaker 1: deer's late winter. It is bad, so maybe they could
Speaker 1: change a little bit. Do you do you find consistency?
Speaker 1: I do, because I mean, you know, basically the food
Speaker 1: that they're eating now and they're eating late winter two. Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean that's just what I found. It's pretty similar.
Speaker 1: It's per Then is there a consistent uh slope that
Speaker 1: they like would you say, out of ten times, would
Speaker 1: a buck bed on the south side five of those times?
Speaker 1: I mean, is there any consistency that you've seen? Well,
Speaker 1: I've heard people say south slope, north slope, all that,
Speaker 1: But in my my experience, I find sheds on on
Speaker 1: all of the random random couldn't kind of micro terrain feature,
Speaker 1: vegetation feature driven like so it's like it may be
Speaker 1: on the north side, but it's because there's cover and
Speaker 1: the winds. Yeah, it may have been what the wind
Speaker 1: was that day, or you know what the weather conditions
Speaker 1: were that day. I mean they may bed on the
Speaker 1: north slope or the south slope could be weather driven
Speaker 1: to I don't know how to explain it, but I
Speaker 1: just say, you know, there's fifty fifty and I found
Speaker 1: a lot of sheds. I mean, that's one of my
Speaker 1: passions is shed hunting. That's that's probably second behind bow hunting.
Speaker 1: Is think about this like off and think about these
Speaker 1: places that I hunt. And if you had to, if
Speaker 1: I told you, Rusty, go out there and sit down
Speaker 1: in a place while I where I will never find you.
Speaker 1: Like uh, because like where I hunt, and I'm learning.
Speaker 1: The older I get in, the more mature of a
Speaker 1: hunter become that I'm usually my own worst enemy, like
Speaker 1: in terms of actually executing strategy, Like on this farm
Speaker 1: I hunt over here, Um this hunt one bigger farm.
Speaker 1: It's about six acres. Man, I would do the same
Speaker 1: thing every year. Now it's produced some success, but I
Speaker 1: mean what I want more success, Yes, But like I
Speaker 1: pretty much like if you were to map over the
Speaker 1: last I've hunted his property for almost twenty years, if
Speaker 1: you were to map my movements on that property, there
Speaker 1: would be big holes where I don't go, not intentions,
Speaker 1: not like trying to preserve the place. But like I
Speaker 1: do the same thing every year, Like I hunt this
Speaker 1: stand to hunt this, then I scout here, I scout here,
Speaker 1: I scout here, and like if you kind of stepped
Speaker 1: back and looked, you would see these big holes. And
Speaker 1: I think probably that's dear no that. I mean like
Speaker 1: they they they respond to human pressure and go to
Speaker 1: places where humans aren't and it seems like kind of rational. Well,
Speaker 1: if you're a good deer hunter, you go into the
Speaker 1: places where the other hunters won't go. I mean, we
Speaker 1: hear that on Facebook at all time. It's way harder
Speaker 1: than that, because it's not just walking further. It's more
Speaker 1: nuanced than that. Like there, I'm quite certain that deer
Speaker 1: use that terrain over there on that six nard acre property,
Speaker 1: Like I understand about twenty of their movement there, and
Speaker 1: that's probably made me an above average deer hunter. My
Speaker 1: point is I really the deer using that property in
Speaker 1: in in ways, and I don't feel like I'm capitalizing
Speaker 1: on it as as I could. Does that make sense? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, have you went in there in the off
Speaker 1: season and walked around and just looked. I spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time on that place in the winter, I mean,
Speaker 1: just because inch of it. Maybe probably not. Well, that's
Speaker 1: that's one thing that I strive to do, like the
Speaker 1: areas that I'm hunting, whether it's private, public, whatever. In
Speaker 1: the All season, I go when I learned every square
Speaker 1: inch of that property, and then after going in there putting.
Speaker 1: It's a different than looking at a map than putting
Speaker 1: boots on the ground. In all Season, I put boots
Speaker 1: on the ground and I look at every square inch.
Speaker 1: Then I go back and I look at my mop
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm thinking, I'm putting everything together. It's like
Speaker 1: pieces of a puzzle and you look at it and
Speaker 1: you think, you know that deer is traveling this direction.
Speaker 1: I've been hunting over here. I move around a lot,
Speaker 1: just like yesterday. I was in the stand all day long.
Speaker 1: I saw one really nice, really nice eight point, but
Speaker 1: it's the spot I've never hunted. I had never hunted
Speaker 1: this particular spot, and uh Rusting had some game cameras
Speaker 1: in there. My son and he said, can you go
Speaker 1: pull the cards out of that? And I said, well,
Speaker 1: I guess after I get down from this. I was
Speaker 1: hunting a different area and it was already dark. I
Speaker 1: go in there. I check a lot of cameras at night,
Speaker 1: I mean, because I hunt daylight, were dark if I'm
Speaker 1: checking cameras during hunting season, it's at night, and a
Speaker 1: lot of times in the summer, i'll go at night.
Speaker 1: I won't get into all that right yet. But um so,
Speaker 1: this spot yesterday is a spot I had never hunted before.
Speaker 1: I like to move around a lot. We got a
Speaker 1: lot of different places and we've got them all mapped out,
Speaker 1: We've got them all pinned on on X and I've
Speaker 1: got trees picked out already. I hunt a lot out
Speaker 1: of a climber space flee on public. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of mature timber, and you have good trees to climb
Speaker 1: with the climber, and it's really mobile. You don't have
Speaker 1: to put up a lock owner whatever you know. And
Speaker 1: I do carry lock owns into and put them up
Speaker 1: and then take them down when I use them. But
Speaker 1: uh yeah, this spot, your study spot I've never even
Speaker 1: hunted before. Wow. Yeah, yeah, Pretty saw Us had some
Speaker 1: cameras in there. He had some good bucks on camera,
Speaker 1: and uh so I said, I'm gonna go in there
Speaker 1: and hunt. He's like, well, we've never even been in
Speaker 1: there hunting before. And I'm like, well, there's deer and
Speaker 1: there we got We've got videos to cameras. Two questions
Speaker 1: I've got. I want to talk about moving stands. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you a personal question. But but before that,
Speaker 1: how are you getting pictures of bucks? Because I know
Speaker 1: you're not using feed or any kind of scent attracting
Speaker 1: or anything in these places you're hunting. How are you
Speaker 1: getting pictures of bucks? Uh? A lot on scrapes. You know,
Speaker 1: deer run scrapes a lot at night. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 1: of that activity at night. And that's and if you'll
Speaker 1: notice on our page, a lot of our videos are
Speaker 1: at night of bucks running scrapes. And that's not necessarily
Speaker 1: where we're gonna hunt. Where we're getting a good place
Speaker 1: to get inventory. It's it's a good place to get inventory.
Speaker 1: Is is primary scrapes and Uh, that's where we get
Speaker 1: a lot especially well, actually, we get a lot of
Speaker 1: our content as far as buck inventory on scrapes year round.
Speaker 1: We have cameras on scrapes year round. It's not just
Speaker 1: they work on year round. I don't care if it's July.
Speaker 1: We've got bucks running scrap uh, working scrapes with velvet.
Speaker 1: I mean they work on year round. Man, I left
Speaker 1: a camera out last year, Um and it just so happened.
Speaker 1: You know. I changed the batteries like late winter, and
Speaker 1: I just was like, I just leave it up, and
Speaker 1: it was over scraped, incredible pictures of all stages of
Speaker 1: antler growth. Those dear work in it, like putting their
Speaker 1: scent on that licking branch. I don't I don't necessarily know.
Speaker 1: I saw him paw on the ground. Do you see them?
Speaker 1: They're mainly working the licking bround and especially in the summertime.
Speaker 1: They won't pull the ground you seldom, but I palled
Speaker 1: the ground for him. I get that good, the soul
Speaker 1: of a roma coming up and stuff, and uh, I
Speaker 1: go ahead and brake it out and stuff. But you
Speaker 1: won't ever see them. But they even in velvet, they'll
Speaker 1: they'll put their antlers up in those licking branches and
Speaker 1: stuff and work them good. I mean, we've got hundreds
Speaker 1: and hundreds of videos. I said, just yes. A couple
Speaker 1: of days ago, I made a post and I was
Speaker 1: sitting over a scrape. It was October the twenty or fifth,
Speaker 1: and uh, and I made mention it was like an
Speaker 1: Instagram story and I may mention I was sitting over
Speaker 1: a scrape. And after I said it, I wanted to
Speaker 1: come back and qualify my scrape idea. And that's like,
Speaker 1: and it's this, I'm not setting over that scrape hoping
Speaker 1: to kill a buck working that scrape. Now he might
Speaker 1: do that. I'm I was setting in that spot because
Speaker 1: that was an area that that's a travel area, and
Speaker 1: bucks make primary scrapes in travel areas. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a scrape that's designed to communicate to the
Speaker 1: whole dear herd. And so they're gonna put that scrape
Speaker 1: not in some obscure place. They're gonna put it in
Speaker 1: a in a place that there's a lot of travel,
Speaker 1: a lot of movement, And so you're hunting there not
Speaker 1: for the scrape, but for the reason that the scrape
Speaker 1: is there. That's a travel area. And because there used
Speaker 1: to be this idea that old bucks checking his scrapes
Speaker 1: as if he's gonna go out of his normal routine
Speaker 1: to go check a scrape, like like as if that
Speaker 1: buck put a scrape in like a weird spot that
Speaker 1: he usually wouldn't go to. No, you know, And I
Speaker 1: think that's also I believe a lot of bucks check
Speaker 1: scrapes and not even go up to the scrape Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, they'll they'll go down into that scrape. It
Speaker 1: may be fifty yards and they'll they'll checked that scrape,
Speaker 1: but they won't be on that scrape. So that that
Speaker 1: comes into some you know, hunting strategy right there, and
Speaker 1: that goes back to the like on the sides of
Speaker 1: heels and stuff. I mean that I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are missing. I'll put a camera on a scrape,
Speaker 1: and I also go down you know a lot of
Speaker 1: times scrapes on top of a ridge or whatever. I'll
Speaker 1: go down below that scrape and find some of those
Speaker 1: real damn trails and put another trail camera out. But
Speaker 1: since trail cameras have come up, that's a lot of
Speaker 1: our strategy right there. We run trail cameras three hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty five days a year, and we run a
Speaker 1: lot of them, and I mean we spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time, and that tells it tells a big story
Speaker 1: right there. Yeah, you know, there's a place that I
Speaker 1: hunt that is so it's it's super tough to hunt.
Speaker 1: But I've got I've got a bunch of trail cameras
Speaker 1: out over there, and I've almost decided that I'm just
Speaker 1: happy getting good camera pictures of deer over there. And
Speaker 1: I'm not even worried if I ever kill a deer there,
Speaker 1: just because it's so much fun getting pictures of these deer.
Speaker 1: But now and in that place, I leave cameras out
Speaker 1: pretty much year round as well, and have been learning
Speaker 1: a lot. Um. Okay, here's here's where I was wanting
Speaker 1: to go back to you with. Is Okay, here's a
Speaker 1: question that a guy would have. He hunts in a
Speaker 1: place more let's just say morning and evening. Maybe he
Speaker 1: doesn't sit the whole day, you know, he gets down
Speaker 1: and he sees moderate deer activity or or maybe not
Speaker 1: much deer activity. But he's got a lot of confidence
Speaker 1: in the spot because of sign because of the data
Speaker 1: he's gathered about this spot. It's the it's it's prime time.
Speaker 1: It's like, right now, do you move to another spot?
Speaker 1: But let me build, let me build the case Even
Speaker 1: bigger is that James Lawrence, my old hunting buddy down
Speaker 1: the wash Toalls, that's kind of a master mountain deer hunter.
Speaker 1: He he's had this philosophy for years and uh and
Speaker 1: he said he likes to hunt a spot three days
Speaker 1: from daylight till dark. And he says, if you do that,
Speaker 1: you'll kill a deer. And he realized that now that
Speaker 1: there may be that's not always the best way. But
Speaker 1: my other buddy, who is a very good deer hunter
Speaker 1: down in the mountains down there too, I have a
Speaker 1: ton of faith in. He wants to move. He's like Clay.
Speaker 1: If you go into a spot and sit for a
Speaker 1: morning hunt and don't see a deer, get the heck
Speaker 1: out of there and go somewhere else, even if there's
Speaker 1: hot sign. And I mean he he really likes to move,
Speaker 1: and so you know, he capitalizes on this like first time.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying he wouldn't hunt a spot over
Speaker 1: and over. I mean he he might, but like if
Speaker 1: he gets skunked, he's moving, and so he's capitalizing on
Speaker 1: this like first time. So he hits it because we
Speaker 1: all know the first time in is often really good.
Speaker 1: Where James would be like, find that sign and just
Speaker 1: stick it out. He said, you may not see a
Speaker 1: deer for two days, but on that third day you're
Speaker 1: gonna kill that buck. What do you think? All right,
Speaker 1: So there's a good question. There's people on both sides
Speaker 1: of the fence on this deal. So one of the
Speaker 1: best deer hunters that I know was my dad, and
Speaker 1: he would go along with the three day philosophy, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I would. That's where I would
Speaker 1: lean towards. I like moving. Uh but I will if
Speaker 1: the sign is good and I know for a fact
Speaker 1: there's good bucks in that area, I'll stick it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will. I mean, that's that's just what I do.
Speaker 1: I see, that's my philosophy to rusty is to try
Speaker 1: to just stick it out and not be validated by
Speaker 1: deer sightings. I mean, like, because man, when you you
Speaker 1: gotta be able to sit through some tough sets to
Speaker 1: kill one. But listen to this, I've been doing that
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks. I've hunted hard over here,
Speaker 1: and there's been a couple of reasons. I hunted hard early,
Speaker 1: which I usually don't quite as much. But I was
Speaker 1: getting pictures of this a big deer, and I felt
Speaker 1: like I could get him kind of in the pre
Speaker 1: rut on a feeding pattern. I hunted him a lot. Well,
Speaker 1: I I don't know where he's at now. He's not
Speaker 1: anywhere around here that deer I was after. And uh
Speaker 1: so just yesterday, maybe this is a good time to
Speaker 1: tell my story. I just was like, I'm getting out
Speaker 1: of here. I'm going to a totally new place. And
Speaker 1: so I did that, drove over to another property I
Speaker 1: have access to, hunt, went in there, hung my tree
Speaker 1: saddle in a brand new spot. And that's the spot
Speaker 1: I had a lot of history with. Don't have a
Speaker 1: single camera up over there. I mean, I don't mess
Speaker 1: with this far much just because of the I just
Speaker 1: go over there and hunt and I and I scout,
Speaker 1: and but I have twenty years of history, so I
Speaker 1: kind of knew where I wanted to go. Climb the tree.
Speaker 1: At three o'clock yesterday, the temperatures here yesterday, we're just incredible.
Speaker 1: It was high. Temperature was like forty five degrees. It
Speaker 1: was it rained most of the day. You were out
Speaker 1: in the rain. I didn't get in the stand till
Speaker 1: three o'clock yesterday. And uh, I'm and where I was
Speaker 1: sitting is that. Okay. There's three features that funnel these
Speaker 1: deer into this pinch. It's the back corner of a
Speaker 1: pretty big field, okay, And we all know that deer
Speaker 1: rather than you know if they're going from point A
Speaker 1: to point B and there's a field in between them,
Speaker 1: and they don't want to walk across the open field.
Speaker 1: They'll hit the back corners of these fields, you know,
Speaker 1: to a back corner. Usually there's a lot of deer
Speaker 1: sign so there's a corner, but there's also a big
Speaker 1: deep holla that comes up from the other side of
Speaker 1: this field. That so there's a big deep draw that
Speaker 1: heads up right there, deep enough that funnels deer. And
Speaker 1: then there's a mouth that is on a third feature
Speaker 1: that funnels these deer into about a probably an area
Speaker 1: that's a hundred yards wide by eighty yards wide, So
Speaker 1: it's not like a tiny little thirty yard wide pinch.
Speaker 1: It's fairly good sized pinch. But I've got kind of
Speaker 1: in the center of it, and I climbed up in
Speaker 1: my tree saddle. I'm using it. I'm using a tethered
Speaker 1: phantom saddle. Have you looked at those at all? I've not.
Speaker 1: I've actually been thinking about getting the saddle. I started
Speaker 1: pretty cool, But they're pretty cool there there. I've used
Speaker 1: them a lot this year and last year too. I
Speaker 1: like them because their mobility. Um So I just got
Speaker 1: up a seventeen eighteen feet three o'clock was in the
Speaker 1: tree hunting. At three thirty, I see a doe coming
Speaker 1: down the hill just I mean coming like right right
Speaker 1: to me, you know, within shooting range. And uh, the
Speaker 1: way she was moved moving I could it didn't strike
Speaker 1: me as odd. But what struck me as odd was
Speaker 1: how of a direct line she was taken, and at
Speaker 1: the time of day she was. You know, like your
Speaker 1: first the first time you see a deer, you you
Speaker 1: gather so much data. I thought it was unusual that
Speaker 1: she was on her feet at three third in the
Speaker 1: afternoon and that she was moving with that much intentionality
Speaker 1: at three thirty in the afternoon, because she was headed
Speaker 1: towards kind of these fields. Well, I see movement behind
Speaker 1: her about forty yards, and I see a deer, Rusty,
Speaker 1: that was big enough that immediately, without even seeing his horns,
Speaker 1: I knew that it was a shooter buck. And for me,
Speaker 1: a shooter buck is a pretty good one. I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not measuring inches. I'm probably a lot like you, Rusty.
Speaker 1: We're not We're not necessarily saying we're after a hundred
Speaker 1: and forty buck. We're after a mature ozark, four year
Speaker 1: old type deer. I mean, is that what you're after
Speaker 1: in I saw this deer, and I mean without even
Speaker 1: seeing his horns, I said, that's him. I mean, I
Speaker 1: grabbed the bowl and and then he comes into full view,
Speaker 1: you know, it probably sixty yards and I can just
Speaker 1: see a full rack, I mean, just a good rack.
Speaker 1: And it I ended up watching him for a long time.
Speaker 1: It's a nice probably point which is for around here
Speaker 1: is I'd spend my whole season to kill that deer,
Speaker 1: big body, big neck. And the wind was blowing out
Speaker 1: of the north. And so if I'm sitting in a
Speaker 1: tree just like this right here, the wind has hit
Speaker 1: me in the side of the face, so it's blowing.
Speaker 1: The winds blowing off to my right, okay, and so
Speaker 1: I'm looking at all this in front of me. It's
Speaker 1: not an ideal wind, but it's a pretty good wind. Well,
Speaker 1: just the way that deer was coming, she came in
Speaker 1: the worst possible way for my wind. And if the
Speaker 1: buck had been right behind the dough, like if he
Speaker 1: had been right on her, I think I would have
Speaker 1: had a shot at the deer. But the dough was
Speaker 1: about forty yards in front of the buck, so the
Speaker 1: dough cuts my wind. She slams on the brakes and
Speaker 1: she she doesn't freak out, She just she stops. And
Speaker 1: what does the buck do? Obviously he stops, and so
Speaker 1: he's forty yards behind her. The dough is at thirty
Speaker 1: ISHU yards right here, and I mean, I'm locked and
Speaker 1: loaded waiting for this, but I'm ranging, you know, because
Speaker 1: this does coming. I'm ranging the dough because I know
Speaker 1: that buck's gonna be right there. I mean, just the
Speaker 1: epitome of a white tail situation. And um, but she
Speaker 1: slams on the brakes and then I looked back to
Speaker 1: him and he is actually forty five yards from me,
Speaker 1: but I mean he's on red alert. And long story short,
Speaker 1: she milled around and never spooked, but she just turned
Speaker 1: and just kind of cat walked back out of there.
Speaker 1: And uh, the buck jumped the fence and milled around,
Speaker 1: and I probably watched them for a total of five minutes,
Speaker 1: and finally they just went back the way they came.
Speaker 1: She absolutely smelled me and I never had a shot
Speaker 1: at the buck. I mean not even a chance of
Speaker 1: a shot. I mean it was just too thick. Um.
Speaker 1: But uh, I said all that to say that was
Speaker 1: my new spot. You know, I jumped to somewhere new
Speaker 1: and was just amazed at the the deer activity. Now,
Speaker 1: I end up seeing seven deer throughout the evening, which
Speaker 1: to me for that area was just average. I actually
Speaker 1: anticipated seeing more dear than that there because there's a
Speaker 1: lot of deer over there. Um. But anyway, because we
Speaker 1: were talking about do you set in the same spot
Speaker 1: over and over, because I thought about back here, just
Speaker 1: setting back and just like, no matter what, I'm hunting
Speaker 1: back there for thirty days straight because I know there's
Speaker 1: a good one back there, but I don't know. That's
Speaker 1: my story, So I was I benefited for the jump move.
Speaker 1: That's why I like bowl hunting so much is nothing
Speaker 1: is a given. It is a huge challenge and you know,
Speaker 1: just small things. I mean, if you had a gun,
Speaker 1: my dear's dead. I mean that's why I like bow
Speaker 1: hunting so much, because everything has to go right. You
Speaker 1: have to get them in close. And I like that challenge. Yeah,
Speaker 1: will you both hunt through the rifle season. I will, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will strictly bowl hunt. Uh. It's not that I'm
Speaker 1: against gun hunting. I mean I love gun hunting, but
Speaker 1: I am a bowl hunter. I did draw a tag
Speaker 1: special tag this year. For a two day muzzloader hunt
Speaker 1: that I might do. But even with that tag, I
Speaker 1: can still go in there with a bowl and I
Speaker 1: probably will because yeah, because I mean, I'm just I
Speaker 1: just like the challenge so much. You know, if I
Speaker 1: kill that buck with a bowl me personally, it just
Speaker 1: means more to me than if I kill it with
Speaker 1: a gun. Um. We were raised in the same vein
Speaker 1: rest of you know my history. But in the last
Speaker 1: seven years I have hunted with a hunting with a
Speaker 1: muzzloader and with a rifle more than ever had in
Speaker 1: my life. And and I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed the liberation.
Speaker 1: Like my dad is just like your dad. Like my
Speaker 1: dad didn't even own a dear rifle. He wouldn't let
Speaker 1: us hunt with guns when we were growing up. And
Speaker 1: I I love that, Uh, I I enjoy I enjoy
Speaker 1: carrying a muzzloader or something. But I'm I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: getting back to my bow hunting roots a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Let's say, I might be giving away my age here,
Speaker 1: but I think I started shooting a bow in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy seven. No, you didn't, not seventy seven. You're not
Speaker 1: that old. M I wouldn't have guessed it. How old
Speaker 1: are you? I'll be forty nine in November. Okay, So
Speaker 1: you were like, Okay, I'm not mistaken. I believe because
Speaker 1: I asked him a while back, when when did I
Speaker 1: start first, you know, start shooting, and he told me
Speaker 1: about around that age because he he's a huge, huge
Speaker 1: bowl hunter, huge bowl hunter, and I just that's how
Speaker 1: I was brought up, you know, So it stuck. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm ten years behind you because I, Uh, I started
Speaker 1: shooting the bow when I was in the third grade.
Speaker 1: That's when Dad bought us compound bows. And uh, I
Speaker 1: would have been in the third grade in like seven. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: but I'm forty one. Yeah, I'm pretty old too. I
Speaker 1: started rusting, I believe when he was five, just a
Speaker 1: little stick bowl, you know, and then he just kind
Speaker 1: of graduated up. I think the first animal he killed
Speaker 1: with the bowl was a turkey. Yeah. I thought that
Speaker 1: was pretty pretty good. I think he was ten maybe
Speaker 1: shot a turkey with a bowl. I just draw uped
Speaker 1: him off. I had a blind set up and come back,
Speaker 1: I said, well, did you say anything? I went to
Speaker 1: pick him up. He said, well, yeah, I killed the turkey.
Speaker 1: I'm like what at that point, I don't think I'd
Speaker 1: even killed a turkey with a bowl, But yeah, he
Speaker 1: shot a turkey and he's shot deer ten years old
Speaker 1: with a bowl. Yeah. He's bigger than your average kid though,
Speaker 1: I mean he could pull back pretty good poundage. You know,
Speaker 1: he's bigger than your average kid right now. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: six three, about three fifty. But anyway, man, that's awesome, Kobe.
Speaker 1: Do you have any questions, I mean, like specific hunting
Speaker 1: questions for him or anything, Um, you think about it.
Speaker 1: If you don't, then don't you think about it. I
Speaker 1: mean I did have one thought, like, what if you
Speaker 1: go into an area, like I'll just go and hunt
Speaker 1: with my dad some somewhere at some point. So if
Speaker 1: you don't have time to scout or anything, if you're
Speaker 1: just going in and just gonna hang something or sit somewhere,
Speaker 1: a look for If I didn't have time to scout it,
Speaker 1: I'd go strictly by the map. Okay, I'd go strictly
Speaker 1: by the maybe looking for train features. Yeah, just train
Speaker 1: features on the map. If I if I had zero,
Speaker 1: if I'd never been in there, never had time to
Speaker 1: scout it or anything, like you said, and I just
Speaker 1: look on the map and say, hey, we're gonna hunt
Speaker 1: right here. Yeah, that sword for me. Yeah. We Uh.
Speaker 1: One time, my dad's got this habit of find calling
Speaker 1: the local game warden, talking to him, getting some information,
Speaker 1: and so there was this one spot we were hunting
Speaker 1: for the first time. He was like, the game warden
Speaker 1: just said, you know, it's public land, but there's only
Speaker 1: like you have to walk a long way to get
Speaker 1: to the other side of this this water feature. If
Speaker 1: you're just hopping the water feature and jump over, you
Speaker 1: probably do pretty good getting the boat. Yeah, He's just
Speaker 1: like getting a boat and hop over, And so we
Speaker 1: did that and it worked. On the map. I saw
Speaker 1: the spot where, uh, the water feature kind of horseshoes
Speaker 1: around and so it kind of pinches at the top,
Speaker 1: and there's like a lot of white oaks in the
Speaker 1: horseshoe area. And I just walked in there and saw
Speaker 1: a buck and didn't get a shot at him. But
Speaker 1: I end up getting a dough that afternoon and and
Speaker 1: a hug. So if you, I mean, if you didn't
Speaker 1: have any time whatsoever and it was a shotgun hunt
Speaker 1: like that or whatever, you can just go by the mountain.
Speaker 1: You probably do pretty good. And back to the game
Speaker 1: warden deal, that's a really good idea. I do the
Speaker 1: same thing. I know all the game wardens, and I
Speaker 1: talked to all of them all the time. They see
Speaker 1: a lot, they know a lot, and most of them
Speaker 1: will share some information with you. I mean they're on
Speaker 1: they're driving these roads, you know, all day long. If
Speaker 1: they say a big buck across the road and they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: i've seen a big buck a cross back there, that'll
Speaker 1: give me a starting point. And usually because of the
Speaker 1: nature of the their job and the time when they
Speaker 1: have to work, usually a lot of them aren't big hunters.
Speaker 1: Well I don't want to I'm not saying they're not
Speaker 1: big hunters, but they're not hunting at normal times, so
Speaker 1: they might be willing to give you some intel because
Speaker 1: they're using it for themselves that weekend. You know, some
Speaker 1: guys I know some good game hunter game wardens, but
Speaker 1: I know my dad starts hunting a lot heavier when
Speaker 1: you start seeing more gear hit on the road too.
Speaker 1: At the little factors. Yeah, um, what about Colin Rusty,
Speaker 1: what's uh like? What do you what's your what's your
Speaker 1: give me your bullet point? I'm a huge fan of calling. Uh,
Speaker 1: I use a grunt call. I use a little rattling bag.
Speaker 1: I never get real aggressive unless I'm in Kansas. Around
Speaker 1: here with a rattle bag, I'll just barely like just
Speaker 1: like tickling them. You know, I never get real aggressive
Speaker 1: in Arkansas. I just don't. In Kansas, I do. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just smash that thing and they'll come running. But uh,
Speaker 1: around here, I haven't found that. I know that I
Speaker 1: know the answer. I mean, like I could tell you
Speaker 1: the answer, but yeah, it doesn't add up. Why doesn't
Speaker 1: work here? I really don't know the answered. This dear fight,
Speaker 1: these dear breedes. We got the fighting on camera all
Speaker 1: the time. We set all our cameras to video mode,
Speaker 1: and I like a lot video mode a lot better.
Speaker 1: But I mean, we've got buck fights on camera on
Speaker 1: game camera and stuff all the time, just all out.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not because what what the typical talking
Speaker 1: point would be would be, well, the buck doe ratios
Speaker 1: are so bad in Arkansas or wherever that you know,
Speaker 1: the bucks just aren't fighting as much. They're not responding
Speaker 1: to fighting sounds. Where if you had like a one
Speaker 1: to one buck ratio and there's some of that, that's true,
Speaker 1: but we have decent buck to Doe ratios and lots
Speaker 1: of places like It's not like it's not like totally
Speaker 1: off kilter here. Uh yeah, I mean, I just I
Speaker 1: just haven't had much luck aggressive rattle bag. I mean
Speaker 1: just a lot stuff. You know, it works better. I
Speaker 1: don't rattle a whole whole lot in Arkansas. I just
Speaker 1: I just haven't had to say us Kansas different story.
Speaker 1: But here and I've got I've had every grunk call
Speaker 1: you know that has been made just about and there's
Speaker 1: one grunt call that I've got that works better than
Speaker 1: all the rest. I'm not gonna say what it is.
Speaker 1: I gotta tell us. I'm not gonna say I've got
Speaker 1: my truck right now. I'll show it to you in
Speaker 1: a minute. But but there there is I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's just me or what, but there's
Speaker 1: this one game grunt call that I mean, I I
Speaker 1: will not use any other, but this time in the
Speaker 1: market for a good grunk call, well this is a
Speaker 1: good Actually I actually looked into uh a grunt call today.
Speaker 1: It'd be interesting to see if it was the same
Speaker 1: one you're talk It's not it's not a mainstream, but
Speaker 1: this one is really obscure. It's this is different than
Speaker 1: any other grunt call that you've ever I like, I
Speaker 1: like the sound of that. Um okay, what about when doy?
Speaker 1: When do you call dear when? Uh? Well, like yesterday
Speaker 1: I called to that I saw a big hunting forty
Speaker 1: eight point I mean that is I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a monster for an Ozart hill country buck. So uh,
Speaker 1: I called to him with a grunt. And these bucks
Speaker 1: are not dumb when they get that big, they are
Speaker 1: not dumb. And I'm a lot of time real hesitant
Speaker 1: about calling tom when they're in sight like that. But
Speaker 1: he was headed away from me, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I what if I got to lose, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna try to get him to turn and come back.
Speaker 1: And when I he I got his attention. He took
Speaker 1: a few steps towards me. And what is it? What
Speaker 1: do you think he did? He craned his neck and
Speaker 1: looked and looked and looked. He looked and looked and looked,
Speaker 1: and then he just started circling down Winn And I knew.
Speaker 1: I knew as soon as he started that direction, I
Speaker 1: knew i'd messed up. I mean it has either just
Speaker 1: let him walk out of sight or or try so
Speaker 1: you feel tried in it. And so he got you know,
Speaker 1: you didn't see him, but he got down windows. What
Speaker 1: what he did? Here's what he did, Clay is when
Speaker 1: I grunted at, I just done a lot grunt got
Speaker 1: his attention. Then I've done a like a like that
Speaker 1: like you. And he started walking to me and these
Speaker 1: are open woods and he stops and he's looking, well,
Speaker 1: he doesn't see that, dear, and he's not stupid, so
Speaker 1: he starts circling down Win. I believe if I'd had
Speaker 1: a decoy, I don't hunt with a decoy, hardly any
Speaker 1: in Arkansas. In Kansas it's a whole different ball game.
Speaker 1: I don't think a decoy would work. I think a
Speaker 1: decoy would have worked. He was looking for that buck.
Speaker 1: If I'd have had a buck decoy there, I believe
Speaker 1: he would have come in the decoy too much. Even
Speaker 1: in Arkansas, you think it would have worked, I think
Speaker 1: it my I think there would have had a better chance.
Speaker 1: But would you have not spooked every dough that came
Speaker 1: within sight of that decoy before the buck got there?
Speaker 1: Na there'll be some little spook ill spook bucks and everything,
Speaker 1: but man, when a mature buck, when a mature buck
Speaker 1: gets out there, they can't stand it. See, that's the
Speaker 1: hard part I have with decoys. And it's at least Arkansas,
Speaker 1: and I understand how they work in the Midwest, but
Speaker 1: my experience it's limited. But I have said over a
Speaker 1: decoy and it's spooked every single deer I've ever since.
Speaker 1: It will mess with your as much as I've I've
Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time in Kansas, and when
Speaker 1: I'm hunting here in Arkansas, like this year, I did
Speaker 1: not draw Kansas tag, so I'm gonna hunt arks. If
Speaker 1: I tag out in Arkansas, I'll go buy me in
Speaker 1: Missouri license. It's over the counter. But it messes with
Speaker 1: your mind a little bit because I've had so much
Speaker 1: success in Kansas. And then when you're grunting at a
Speaker 1: deer like a deer I saw yesterday, and you're thinking
Speaker 1: in your mind, Man, if I just had a buck decoy,
Speaker 1: would he come in or would he not? What he spooke?
Speaker 1: Would he come in? I don't know. In Kansas, it's
Speaker 1: a no brainer. I would have that decoy out there,
Speaker 1: But in Arkansas, it's it's messing with your mind a
Speaker 1: little bit, you know, because I've not had success in
Speaker 1: Arkansas with a decoy. I've tried them, and I just don't.
Speaker 1: I've just stop using them in Arkansas. Okay, let me
Speaker 1: tell you. Let me tell you my thoughts on calling,
Speaker 1: or at least a simplistic like section of thought on calling.
Speaker 1: I pretty much grunt at every deer that I see
Speaker 1: that is not coming within bow range. I mean like
Speaker 1: like and again this is like one little like if
Speaker 1: I'm if I'm sitting there, my instinct like, if I
Speaker 1: see a deer that is skirting me that is not
Speaker 1: gonna come within bow range, I'm gonna back, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: hit him. And most of the time it's gonna And
Speaker 1: what I find strange enough before the rut, most does
Speaker 1: will come to a grunt call. Yeah, Like if you
Speaker 1: grunt if you see a dough out there at sixty
Speaker 1: yards that's not coming by you. And I may not
Speaker 1: even be wanting to shoot a dough, but I'm wanting
Speaker 1: to draw all these deer as close to me as possible,
Speaker 1: just in case there's other deer with them or dear.
Speaker 1: I mean you know, And so I've just had a
Speaker 1: ton of success, especially pre rut, like before October the twenty,
Speaker 1: when they're just on kind of feeding pattern, does responding
Speaker 1: to grunt calls. Um. I've grunted plenty of big buck,
Speaker 1: you know, some of these deer right here, we're grunted
Speaker 1: in um. But here's but it doesn't always work. Yesterday, now,
Speaker 1: I tried to salvage the spook deer yesterday. Once I
Speaker 1: knew they were for sure leaving, I you know, grunted
Speaker 1: at that big buck and it didn't work. You know,
Speaker 1: he craned his neck and looked, and but they ended
Speaker 1: up moving off. An hour later, I saw a younger
Speaker 1: buck that I was pretty certain I wasn't gonna shoot,
Speaker 1: but just I just saw it racked kind of probably
Speaker 1: two year old type deer skirting sixty seventy yards away,
Speaker 1: not gonna be within both range, perfect candidate to grunt in.
Speaker 1: I grunted that dear, and he stopped and looked at
Speaker 1: me and then just kept going like yeah, he he
Speaker 1: didn't want he didn't hunt a bit about it. A
Speaker 1: lot of times two year old boy they'll just come running.
Speaker 1: They'll run right to the base of your tree, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're looking around. Yeah man, mature bucks. Man, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you gotta be really careful. They're super super smart. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: Talking about rattling, I was about to say, and if
Speaker 1: I had time to think about it, I think in Arkansas,
Speaker 1: I've rattled up two bucks like mature bucks, like straight
Speaker 1: up rattled them up, um, but kill. I couldn't have
Speaker 1: killed either one u them with a bow I tried.
Speaker 1: I mean, because they come in on full alert, stop
Speaker 1: out there at thirty or forty yards facing you, because
Speaker 1: you just you're the point source of this sound. And
Speaker 1: they stand there for ten seconds and don't see another
Speaker 1: deer and they turned around leave. So it's not effective.
Speaker 1: If we were an open, big open country, and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe could had a decoy, and that's a place where
Speaker 1: a decoy would have worked, but I wouldn't trying to
Speaker 1: kill a deal. I was trying to. You know, every
Speaker 1: time I rattled in deer, I had set of rattling horns,
Speaker 1: and both times was with horn actual horns. You know,
Speaker 1: it was like the hunt was kind of dead, and
Speaker 1: so I was like, I'm just gonna clack these horns
Speaker 1: together and no telling how many times. I've done that
Speaker 1: and it didn't work. Twice and thirty years of bo
Speaker 1: hunting worked, you know. Um, but neither time did I
Speaker 1: kill the deer because I didn't have a decoy out.
Speaker 1: I and and I wouldn't had a decoy out because
Speaker 1: it's just I was hunting a travel area like I
Speaker 1: was expecting to kill a buck just walking through. I
Speaker 1: didn't need a decoy. You see what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like mishmash strategies some some of these big bucks,
Speaker 1: even in the Midwest. The biggest buck I ever killed,
Speaker 1: I was hunting with a decoy, and two days in
Speaker 1: a row he stopped eighty yards from the decoy and
Speaker 1: we just would not come in, and oh yeah, he
Speaker 1: saw the decoy and everything, and you know, I got
Speaker 1: to thinking, you know this, every time I had a
Speaker 1: sighting of this deer, he was always by himself. He's
Speaker 1: not got any broke nothing, or he's always by himself.
Speaker 1: He's like a loner, a real passive type deer. So
Speaker 1: two days in a row he stopped at eighty yards
Speaker 1: from a decoy and just would not come in at all.
Speaker 1: He just skirt around and and leave like he was
Speaker 1: scared of it or something. So after two days of that,
Speaker 1: I took that decoy and I throwed that thing in
Speaker 1: the woods and I killed that buck the next day.
Speaker 1: Killing the next day. Now what did he want to
Speaker 1: come that way and the decoy was bumping in the way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he just walked by it. Yeah. I didn't even
Speaker 1: have to call him in or nothing. It was in
Speaker 1: a trail. I was in a travel corridor I was at.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was hunting a field edge and there's
Speaker 1: a trail coming across this field. And man, I had
Speaker 1: I passed up I think nine or ten poping young
Speaker 1: class deer are bigger because I was hunting this deer.
Speaker 1: He ended up scoring one, six and eight. So, I
Speaker 1: mean I had passed up several really nice bucks. I
Speaker 1: was video on them everything. They were interacting with the
Speaker 1: decoy and everything. But this buck here, the one I
Speaker 1: was after, he just would not come in. He's real passive.
Speaker 1: And I took that decoy, I throwed that thing in
Speaker 1: the woods, and I killed him very next day. I'll
Speaker 1: be daring. Yeah. So this that's all podcast is about.
Speaker 1: How don't use a decoy, ye, don't rattle, don't do
Speaker 1: all this. No, that's good intel man. I've called a
Speaker 1: lot of deer in by grunting or using a bleak
Speaker 1: call to Yeah, yeah, man, that's good stuff. What do
Speaker 1: you tell me, you're don't. Don't tell me what you
Speaker 1: think people want to hear. Tell me the truth, rusty
Speaker 1: um about scent control. Okay, because listen, here, here's my
Speaker 1: here's my philosophy. Like there, when scent control products first
Speaker 1: started coming out, the good hunters that were already doing
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff right that were taking white
Speaker 1: tail honey really serious, started using the stuff because they
Speaker 1: wanted to become the best that they could be. So
Speaker 1: the guys that were using scent control all of a
Speaker 1: sudden were the guys that had a ton of success
Speaker 1: in the correlation point. Oftentimes there's correlation between things between
Speaker 1: data points that seemed like they're connected, like white tail
Speaker 1: hunting success equals using all the commercial scent control products success,
Speaker 1: and so you make this connection, But really the correlation
Speaker 1: isn't that. The correlation was that these guys were doing
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other stuff right now. I'm not
Speaker 1: anti scent control. At different times I have been. I
Speaker 1: made it. I made a facebook post commented on it, Well,
Speaker 1: and I'm not I'm not totally convinced because the last
Speaker 1: eight nine years I have used basically zero cent control.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. You believe science, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: I heard you say it on a podcast one time.
Speaker 1: I love science. You know what this is, don't you.
Speaker 1: It's chemical signs. I mean, so it works. I believe
Speaker 1: it helps. I'm not gonna say, you know, and go
Speaker 1: out and buy all this stuff and you're guaranteed that
Speaker 1: a deer is not gonna til you and it all
Speaker 1: and it. And it goes back to the argument about wind.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean there's I have a lot of
Speaker 1: I guess off the wall or whatever opinions, But like
Speaker 1: the spot I hunted yesterday, I'm not even worried about
Speaker 1: the wind. I didn't even pick the tree that I
Speaker 1: was in based on wind direction or anything. I I
Speaker 1: picked the tree that I hunted out of where I
Speaker 1: thought I would get a shot at a deer the wind.
Speaker 1: I mean, if it's a perfect If I've got a
Speaker 1: perfect north northwest wind or whatever, and there's a perfect
Speaker 1: tree here, and I think all the nine of the
Speaker 1: travel is going to be in this one direction. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can use the wind in my advantage. But most
Speaker 1: of the time I don't even worry about the wind.
Speaker 1: But it's not because of these products. Well, okay, so
Speaker 1: what do you do though, Well I do. I stayed
Speaker 1: to try to say it's clean as I can there
Speaker 1: is does that mean by Washington? So you you're talking
Speaker 1: about like sent free showers, literally taking cent free showers,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily a hunting industry sent free soap and not.
Speaker 1: I do not use a hunting industry deoderant. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna I'm not gonna say what deoderant. I use our
Speaker 1: anti Prussian whatever you want to call it. I do
Speaker 1: have a few secrets, but I do use some stuff. Uh.
Speaker 1: But there is one thing that I do use a
Speaker 1: lot of. And I learned this in the eighties from
Speaker 1: my dad. I always told him, you know, you should
Speaker 1: have back in the early eighties, you should have started
Speaker 1: you've been a millionaire now if you'd have invented some
Speaker 1: of this sent control and stuff. But he started using
Speaker 1: baking soda. And I do use a lot of baking soda. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in your clothes, my dad, in my clothes, I've done
Speaker 1: the same thing. Maybe put it on on myself. So
Speaker 1: that is one thing that I use in bacon soda.
Speaker 1: You know, you just go to the grocery store and
Speaker 1: bike because it absorbs sent It absorbs scent. Yeah. What
Speaker 1: about your club? Okay, if if we were to go
Speaker 1: hunting together this afternoon, would you hunting these clothes you're wearing.
Speaker 1: Rusty's wearing camo right now? He just came out of
Speaker 1: the woods. Yeah, done some scouting today and uh, I
Speaker 1: just happened to these are some pants at a company
Speaker 1: sent sentis to try out. And but would you go
Speaker 1: sitting a stand right now? Where? No, So you do
Speaker 1: you have do you carry do you have sent controlled
Speaker 1: boxes in your truck with? Okay, that's why I want
Speaker 1: to get out. I keep my clothes clean, uh, and
Speaker 1: I wash them and I use a lot of baking
Speaker 1: soda to wash my clothes. And I do use some
Speaker 1: commercial uh scent free wash for clothes. Uh. And it's
Speaker 1: so as I get them out if I can, I
Speaker 1: like the air drome outside if I can in the
Speaker 1: right place, and then then I've got our either bags
Speaker 1: or containers that if a deer had come down wind
Speaker 1: of you yesterday would have smelled you. Uh. May or
Speaker 1: may not. I had a few deer come down wind
Speaker 1: that did not smell me, and uh, it's it gets
Speaker 1: a little deeper than just uh, you know, sent controlling yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, like I mean the wind direction, you know,
Speaker 1: what drifts, you know, all that kind of There's a
Speaker 1: lot that goes in here. Here's my thoughts on it.
Speaker 1: The thermals, Like the way I don't get winded very
Speaker 1: often in the morning when thermals are rising because of heating,
Speaker 1: you know, raising air temperature. You know, A lot of
Speaker 1: the hunting that I'm doing, especially not around here, is
Speaker 1: uh mountain hunting where I'm walking back into place is
Speaker 1: a riding a mule in warm temperatures. And sent control
Speaker 1: is just a joke. If you come hunt it, if
Speaker 1: you hunt it with me back in there, you might
Speaker 1: as well smell like a toilet. I mean, like it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. That is really what I was poking holes at. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, don't tell me you gotta use sent control
Speaker 1: to kill deer back in there. Or bear. I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of my bear hunting is that way. I mean,
Speaker 1: I am covered and sweat multiple times per day. Can't
Speaker 1: take a cent free shower, can't my clothes. So but
Speaker 1: now that I'm so, I'm kind of coming back. So
Speaker 1: basically when I my dad instilled in a so deep
Speaker 1: about I mean, it just made hunting so hard to
Speaker 1: be sent free. You know, keep washing clothes, only wearing
Speaker 1: clothes one time. It's keeping them sent free boxes. Like
Speaker 1: I was in that for so long at the peak
Speaker 1: of White Tail sent control stuff when it first came out,
Speaker 1: and the late nineties through the two that when I
Speaker 1: started kind of getting out on my own, I was like, man,
Speaker 1: all you gotta do is hunt the wind and you
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about all that stuff. That's really
Speaker 1: the way I've operated for the last fifteen years, and
Speaker 1: that it's not I don't feel like it's costed me
Speaker 1: a ton of deer because I've killed a lot of
Speaker 1: good deer hunting that way. But I'm starting to go
Speaker 1: back to the other direction, especially on this hunting that's
Speaker 1: you can control things. And for me, I live in
Speaker 1: two different worlds. I live in this like public land,
Speaker 1: backcountry world that I love, but also live in this
Speaker 1: world where I'm hunting like farms that I'm driving my
Speaker 1: truck up to and walking two hundred yards to a
Speaker 1: deer stand like in in in that controlled environment, I'm
Speaker 1: beginning to come back to, I might as well do
Speaker 1: sin control. What do you think at why not just
Speaker 1: say that? I mean, it just helps just a smidge
Speaker 1: to me, it's worth doing. Well, let me play the
Speaker 1: Devil's out of here. I want you to convince me
Speaker 1: of something different. So I'm not trying to like squelch
Speaker 1: your idea. But I've done everything to a t and
Speaker 1: still had a deer smells you. You cannot if it's
Speaker 1: like all the energy and effort that I put into
Speaker 1: white tail deer hunting, if thirty percent of that effort
Speaker 1: is going towards scent control, that that doesn't work a
Speaker 1: lot of the time. I'm just like, I'm cutting that
Speaker 1: thirty percent off. Do you understand what I'm saying? And
Speaker 1: so that's basically what I've done for long, for ten
Speaker 1: years or longer. But I'm coming back to a place
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, like in yesterday is a great example,
Speaker 1: like if I had because I did nothing for sent
Speaker 1: control yesterday other than walk through a cow pie on
Speaker 1: the way up there to come to my ground cent
Speaker 1: because I was hunting the cattle farm, which is stellar
Speaker 1: ground sin control, Yeah, just that the deer don't smell
Speaker 1: me where I walk. I'm that farm. I walked through Colpivers.
Speaker 1: You know, I had the thought yesterday if I had
Speaker 1: done everything to a t because I didn't sweat going
Speaker 1: in there. It was cold, I was close to my truck,
Speaker 1: I didn't have I didn't have to you know, I
Speaker 1: wasn't covered in sweat. Uh. You know, would that have?
Speaker 1: Would that dough have walked through my scent which she
Speaker 1: had just kind of spooked just a little bit and
Speaker 1: walked through and then the buck come through. And I
Speaker 1: think the answer that question is maybe she would have,
Speaker 1: But I'm not. And I could have done everything and
Speaker 1: spend all that energy and time and then they got
Speaker 1: the exact same results. So yeah, I mean I can
Speaker 1: agree with everything you're saying. You know, I do a
Speaker 1: lot of scent control and do everything that I can do.
Speaker 1: You spray, I do, Yeah, and I and I it's
Speaker 1: proven that that stuff kills bacteria. I mean, it's proven
Speaker 1: that it kills bacteria. Will it kill all of it? Probably?
Speaker 1: Will it killed all of the sin on your clothes?
Speaker 1: Probably not? What if it killed just twenty of it?
Speaker 1: And that just a little bit was just enough to
Speaker 1: get a deer five yards closer for a shot. Do
Speaker 1: you what's your view on carbon clothes? Man, I don't
Speaker 1: have a lot of recent intel. I've not paid any
Speaker 1: attention to it in a long time, so, you know,
Speaker 1: I was really skeptical of it. And I had a
Speaker 1: friend of mine at work say, we were talking about
Speaker 1: stuff like that. He said, Man, when I was over
Speaker 1: in Iraq, he said, we wore carbon suits. He's like,
Speaker 1: they were just real thick carbon suits. And he said
Speaker 1: we would wear them things for like two weeks without
Speaker 1: taking a bath. And he said nobody stunk. But he said,
Speaker 1: when you took that thing off, he said it it
Speaker 1: was just about making puke. I mean, the odor was
Speaker 1: so bad when they took the suit off, it was
Speaker 1: containing all that sent I'm just thinking, man, I mean,
Speaker 1: there there must really be something to it. That's the science. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: and I got to thinking, if you went the carbon route,
Speaker 1: I feel like you would need the you know, the pants,
Speaker 1: the shirt, the head cover. I mean, you'd have to
Speaker 1: really cover everything up. But even if you covered say
Speaker 1: fifty of your body with it, and it's absorbing of
Speaker 1: your scent, that might help just enough. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think that's a great argument. And that's why i wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to you about this because I'm wanting someone
Speaker 1: to I'm not happy with my sent control regiment for
Speaker 1: when I'm in a controlled hunt. A lot of my
Speaker 1: hunting is uncontrolled. I'm back country stuff. You just in
Speaker 1: warm weather stuff too. Boy. I mean, if you do
Speaker 1: all that sent control and you break a sweat on
Speaker 1: the way in there, all that is like you are
Speaker 1: a Merino wool, don't you. Yeah, that's a natural odor
Speaker 1: in hibit or, isn't it. Yes, it is so. I
Speaker 1: mean I do wear some too. I don't like the
Speaker 1: way it stays wet for I mean, like if you
Speaker 1: get it wet, it takes forever to dry it out.
Speaker 1: But I mean I do were especially undergarments, No, I
Speaker 1: don't that was actually known for drying out quick. But
Speaker 1: that's what it's known for. Absolutely drying out quicker than cotton,
Speaker 1: way quicker. I know. But I mean, if dry out
Speaker 1: faster than cotton, but it won't be Some synthetic material
Speaker 1: dry really fast. I've been wearing the synthetic material under
Speaker 1: on skin undergarments, and I mean they dry out just
Speaker 1: like that, and then I put my marino wool on it.
Speaker 1: It seems like it takes forever to dry out compared
Speaker 1: to cotton. Yeah, I agree with you. Yes, yes, well, Rusty,
Speaker 1: me and you both need to well you make you're
Speaker 1: you're still kind of drying out from along along couple
Speaker 1: of days of hunting. Yeah, I'm gonna try to go
Speaker 1: hunt this afternoon, last couple of hours. Uh but uh no, man,
Speaker 1: So you're you guys on Instagram or White Tail Warfare Yeah,
Speaker 1: White Tell Warfare so you can follow Rusty and his
Speaker 1: son Rusting. And our marketing manager is Dalton Clink Skills. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's us three and uh, we have a very successful page.
Speaker 1: We're mainly Instagram. We are on Facebook two, but our
Speaker 1: main deal is Instagram right now, and we're working with
Speaker 1: some great partners and it's it's going really good. Yeah. Cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys post a lot of uh video footage and
Speaker 1: stuff and truck camera truck camera footage. Our main deal
Speaker 1: is is trail camera stuff. I mean, we really have
Speaker 1: a lot of trail camera content and it's pretty cool
Speaker 1: stuff and and viers really like it. So everything white too,
Speaker 1: everything white till yep. Well, man, I'm glad. I'm really
Speaker 1: glad I caught you, just barely caught you in the
Speaker 1: moment when you come by, and anyway, awesome to have
Speaker 1: you on And not like I said, I have a
Speaker 1: town of respect for you, Rusty, I've always said it
Speaker 1: for you as a as a as a hunter, as
Speaker 1: a as a man, I I've I've learned a lot
Speaker 1: from you. Your you really every year you inspire me, man,
Speaker 1: because I'll text Rusty it like noon and He'll be like,
Speaker 1: I'm in a tree yeah, and I'll be like, god
Speaker 1: it I gotta get in the tree. Yeah. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: pretty hardcore. I mean I live for this stuff. We
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah. You take off a lot of time
Speaker 1: this time, do Yeah? I have. I still have a
Speaker 1: full time job. Uh Dalton has a full time job
Speaker 1: in rusting, is in his second year of law school
Speaker 1: right now. So uh so do you take off like
Speaker 1: right now? Yeah, I've basically right now, I've got thirty
Speaker 1: days in the row off And so I mean I
Speaker 1: will be blogging the hours yeah. Yeah. And I'm I'm
Speaker 1: pretty picky. I mean, if if I shoot one, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a decent It'll be poping. Young size are bigger,
Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, thirty days of vacation right now,
Speaker 1: just started hunting. Yeah all right man, Well good luck
Speaker 1: to you, and uh I appreciate it, man, Yeah, thank
Speaker 1: you for inviting me here and discussing some stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: keep the wild lass wild, because that's where the big
Speaker 1: bucks love. I try