Speaker 1: If I would have gotten mad at her and then
Speaker 1: we would have had an attitude and then would have
Speaker 1: wanted to work with a different coach, that would have
Speaker 1: been more like my shit, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like she was clear on her boundary, but like if
Speaker 1: I would have had an attitude and wanted to be staking,
Speaker 1: it's like, yo, I gotta check myself. Like why so
Speaker 1: if someone makes you feel bad for you saying no,
Speaker 1: one's set in a boundary, you really have to question
Speaker 1: that relationship, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Cultivating her Space. I'm doctor dom, a college
Speaker 3: professor and licensed psychologist.
Speaker 4: And I'm Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. Every Friday,
Speaker 4: we initiate authentic conversations on everything from fibroids to fake
Speaker 4: friends and sex work to self care.
Speaker 3: Join us as we create a safe space where black
Speaker 3: women can just be.
Speaker 4: All right, lady, let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Do you know how to say no? Of course you do.
Speaker 1: Why is it so hard for us to say no
Speaker 1: when it really matters? Maybe not all of us, but
Speaker 1: most of us. I would definitely say no, no, no.
Speaker 1: When we were children, we would screaming from the mountaintops.
Speaker 1: We remember those days. No, seriously, that's exactly what we
Speaker 1: would do.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: As teenagers, we were quickly to shoot at, know, at
Speaker 1: our parents when they were doing something embarrassing or old fashioned. Right,
Speaker 1: But seemingly as adults, the word has lost its meaning
Speaker 1: for some of us. Right, it's gone bland on our tongues.
Speaker 1: Instead of no, we find ourselves signing yes, even when
Speaker 1: we don't want to do it and we want to
Speaker 1: do the exact opposite. How did we get here?
Speaker 3: I don't know, girl, I don't even know, Like, how.
Speaker 1: Do we take our power back? How do we do it?
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of ways that we can
Speaker 3: do it, But I think what would help most of
Speaker 3: us really is to hear how other people have done
Speaker 3: it and what has been the end result. Because I
Speaker 3: think about like times when I've told someone or told
Speaker 3: myself to try something and I have no idea what
Speaker 3: the outcome is going to be. That can be pretty scary,
Speaker 3: especially when we're trying to change a behavior. Oftentimes it's
Speaker 3: a lot easier for us to feel motivated to change
Speaker 3: a behavior if we can kind of have some clue
Speaker 3: about what the outcome will be. What stories do you
Speaker 3: have for us today? Because I know, I know you
Speaker 3: know you have some good stories. You always got a story.
Speaker 3: You know, I got a story for everything.
Speaker 1: Well, I was just thinking like, well, first, I think
Speaker 1: this episode is going to be for a particular person usually,
Speaker 1: I know for me personally, I've struggled with no a lot,
Speaker 1: and I I definitely I'm looking forward to this episode
Speaker 1: because I want to have a real authentic conversation and
Speaker 1: for anyone that's timid and that struggled with trying to
Speaker 1: appease people, which is me all the way, me too.
Speaker 1: There we go, you and I Don, this is going
Speaker 1: to be a really good episode for you, So stay tuned.
Speaker 1: But first Don is going to take us into our
Speaker 1: quote of the day.
Speaker 3: All right, So today's quote comes from Renee Brown. She's
Speaker 3: written several books about self improvement, about learning to love ourselves,
Speaker 3: learning to engage with others in a healthier way, and
Speaker 3: so this quote says, daring to set boundaries is about
Speaker 3: having the courage to love ourselves even when we risk
Speaker 3: disappointing others. That last part for me, even when we
Speaker 3: risk disappointing others.
Speaker 1: So you already know what's coming next. What does that
Speaker 1: mean to you, don what is that put me into you?
Speaker 3: That quote really, especially that last part says that it's
Speaker 3: like giving me the courage, giving me the empowerment to
Speaker 3: say I can say no, and I don't have to
Speaker 3: worry about how other people are going to react, that
Speaker 3: I have to focus on doing what's helpful for myself
Speaker 3: with showing my self love, even if that means the
Speaker 3: other person may be upset by it or they may
Speaker 3: not like it. But the more important piece is to
Speaker 3: show my self love and that means saying no.
Speaker 1: And when I hear you say that, and when you
Speaker 1: just read that quote, it made me think about the
Speaker 1: fact that setting boundaries and saying no is literally an
Speaker 1: act of self care because when you think about it,
Speaker 1: and I know that it's funny that we're talking about
Speaker 1: this because I feel like I'm low key preaching to myself.
Speaker 1: So we may be saying things as though we're experts,
Speaker 1: but it's like we're still on the journey as well,
Speaker 1: like we're still working on this in our daily life.
Speaker 1: And when I hear that, it makes me think, would
Speaker 1: I do I want to say no to someone? Or
Speaker 1: do I want to say yes to something? I don't
Speaker 1: really want to do to appease someone else just to
Speaker 1: disappoint myself so I can't sleep at night or do
Speaker 1: I want to be honest, be true to myself, say no,
Speaker 1: make sure that I can sleep well to night. And
Speaker 1: if that person has a problem with it, I mean
Speaker 1: they can probably ask someone else, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like I shouldn't have to compromise my sanity, my time,
Speaker 1: my energy, my boundaries to appease someone else, and I
Speaker 1: really don't want to do it.
Speaker 3: And most of the time the other person isn't going
Speaker 3: to be upset, and if they are, then that may
Speaker 3: be a sign that they might not value our relationship
Speaker 3: in the same way that we do.
Speaker 5: M hm.
Speaker 1: So how about let's talk about a few instances in
Speaker 1: our lives as a women when we would be presented
Speaker 1: with an opportunity to say no. If we could just
Speaker 1: think of a few, like.
Speaker 3: Oh, I know one right off time off top, what
Speaker 3: comes up for me? And I know that I've experienced
Speaker 3: this and lots of other women have experienced this too,
Speaker 3: where we're asked to do something socially right and we
Speaker 3: don't really want to go and either we make excuses
Speaker 3: and like lie about why we can't go, or we
Speaker 3: go and we feel miserable the entire time.
Speaker 1: I'll say, why did I do that? Yes, here's my thing, Like,
Speaker 1: and I know we're going to dive into a few
Speaker 1: other like situations like that, but I feel like you
Speaker 1: don't have like if you say no, you don't have
Speaker 1: to say no every single time, Like it's okay to
Speaker 1: compromise there. Sometimes when I do things that I may
Speaker 1: not necessarily want to do just because I know that
Speaker 1: it could be beneficial, Like I've gone to networking events
Speaker 1: that I'm like, I really don't want to go, but
Speaker 1: I might want to support a friend, right, But if
Speaker 1: you really I think we're talking about situations where you
Speaker 1: really can't go or you really just don't want to
Speaker 1: at all. And it's just like I just don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't have it's been a stressful week, I'm tired,
Speaker 1: like whatever it is, I don't want to go, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel guilty about not saying it.
Speaker 1: And I think about something as simple as you being
Speaker 1: in the checkout and then asking, hey, do you want
Speaker 1: to donate a dollar to this charity? I say no
Speaker 1: all the time because all I mean First of all,
Speaker 1: I do other I have other charitable you know, donations
Speaker 1: and outlets in my life, while I'm able to give
Speaker 1: and I know exactly where the money's going, just saying.
Speaker 1: But also that's a good way to practice, right, like
Speaker 1: no thank you. It's easy to practice on like the
Speaker 1: small thing. So taking baby steps when you are trying
Speaker 1: to get in the habit of learning to say no. So,
Speaker 1: for instance, if we go back to like our example of.
Speaker 3: Your girlfriend calls you, it's Wednesday, right homegirl is like
Speaker 3: this weekend, ooh, ooh ooh, and she's like so excited,
Speaker 3: and she's like, oh, this weekend, Like there's this brunch
Speaker 3: and it's from like twelve to three o'clock. I've been
Speaker 3: dying to check this place out. You don't really want
Speaker 3: to go for whatever, whatever the reason may be. Normally
Speaker 3: you're down for a brunch, right, who's not down for
Speaker 3: bottomless momosis?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 3: But this weekend you really don't want to go. How
Speaker 3: can we say no? Because hitting her with.
Speaker 6: Well, I got.
Speaker 3: The gym and laundry and.
Speaker 6: Whatever other excuses we can come up with.
Speaker 3: Might not feel it'll it might get you out of
Speaker 3: the event, but it doesn't feel authentic.
Speaker 1: So how do we just say no? That is the question.
Speaker 1: That's the question we're going to dive into because I
Speaker 1: know for me, I've had family situations in particular, whether
Speaker 1: it's like family wants me to do a favor, they
Speaker 1: want to know if I can like come to an
Speaker 1: event or like lately, because I guess friends be thinking
Speaker 1: I'm like leading on social media, I had a few
Speaker 1: friends like, oh, can you share this post for me
Speaker 1: one of my cousins? Can you share my music with
Speaker 1: your followers? Like, no, don't make me laugh with your
Speaker 1: facial expression. Now, I was not trying to laugh because
Speaker 1: the reason might even.
Speaker 6: Laughed out y'all if y'all can see us right now, because.
Speaker 1: Y'all, no, I don't. Here's the thing. I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not nobody special. I'm just out here
Speaker 1: doing the best I can. But I think what people
Speaker 1: perceive you to be a certain way sometimes like oh,
Speaker 1: you have more followers than me, can.
Speaker 6: You share this music?
Speaker 1: And it's like I had to break it down to
Speaker 1: my little cousin, like, because I support you, I think
Speaker 1: it's great, keep doing your thing, but that's just not appropriate, right.
Speaker 1: It's like it's not appropriate, like my followers are not
Speaker 1: your target market. So I gave him resources on like
Speaker 1: what he could do, but I did say no because
Speaker 1: that's just that's not the type of system that I run,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, where it's like spamming my
Speaker 1: my yeah connections.
Speaker 3: I think that's a great example, right, because I think
Speaker 3: that that puts us a lot of us in like
Speaker 3: that hard position because if we think about if we're
Speaker 3: just real about it, and we think about our podcast,
Speaker 3: those of you who are listening right now, you may feel, Okay,
Speaker 3: let me go share this, but then you may ask
Speaker 3: somebody else to go and share it, and they're like, hmm,
Speaker 3: this doesn't fit with my platform, right. But even for
Speaker 3: us like asking like our friends and family to promote
Speaker 3: our podcast, that's a hard conversation to have to say,
Speaker 3: you know what, promoting your music is a different requires
Speaker 3: a different platform than what I'm doing with the podcast,
Speaker 3: and so how can I still show support without mixing
Speaker 3: the two exactly?
Speaker 1: Because I really didn't want to hurt his feelings either,
Speaker 1: And that makes me think about like what feelings come
Speaker 1: up when we let's think about it, what feelings come
Speaker 1: up when you have to say no, Like there are
Speaker 1: sometimes when someone asks you something and you're just like, bruh,
Speaker 1: that's a hard no. You already know before you even respond,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you have to think about it. But for
Speaker 1: those moments when you do have to deliver that note,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, I mean, even when you're interviewing people,
Speaker 1: like I've got to interview people for positions and it's
Speaker 1: like for job positions and things like that, and it's
Speaker 1: like it's tough saying though, because that on the other hand,
Speaker 1: that person is feeling rejected in some way in some cases.
Speaker 1: So I guess for me, my question would be, like,
Speaker 1: how do you feel when you are in a situation
Speaker 1: where you have to say no to someone?
Speaker 3: Well, most of the time what happens is is that
Speaker 3: people feel The biggest feeling that comes up for people
Speaker 3: is guilt. Guilt that's a good one. Like you end
Speaker 3: up feeling bad because going back to our Brenee Brown quote,
Speaker 3: we don't want to disappoint them, like we feel bad
Speaker 3: that we've had to say no.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel bad, I would say, even like I
Speaker 1: get a little like maybe a little anxious, Like I
Speaker 1: feel something in my body because it's like, oh, damn.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that comes up is like,
Speaker 1: what is this person going to think. I don't want
Speaker 1: to hurt their feelings. I don't want to mess up
Speaker 1: there reallylationship. I don't want to make this awkward. Like
Speaker 1: a lot of different things come up there, but I
Speaker 1: think it's going to be It's powerful when you do
Speaker 1: get to a place where you can say no with
Speaker 1: ease and you don't have to worry about all this
Speaker 1: because that's stressful, you know what I mean, it's really stressful.
Speaker 3: So I think the other thing that comes up, there's
Speaker 3: a couple of things. Yeah, so the fear of missing out,
Speaker 3: that whole fomo thing, that is a more common feeling
Speaker 3: that people experience.
Speaker 1: Okay, and it's.
Speaker 3: Not just younger generations, right, it's not just the teenagers.
Speaker 3: That's not even though that's a newer term that we're using, fomo,
Speaker 3: it's a feeling that's been around for a long time. Right.
Speaker 3: So if we you know, if we say, if we're
Speaker 3: afraid to tell our girlfriends, oh yeah, I'm going to
Speaker 3: miss brunch this weekend, we may go along even though
Speaker 3: we don't want to, because we don't want to miss
Speaker 3: out because we know that all the girls, that the
Speaker 3: whole crew is getting together. And even though we know
Speaker 3: that it's going to cause strain on us, whatever that
Speaker 3: strain may look like, we still say yes because we're
Speaker 3: afraid to miss out.
Speaker 1: And that sounds like a no, a conversation where we
Speaker 1: have to say no to ourselves in a way where
Speaker 1: it's like you have to kind of have a moment.
Speaker 1: I talk to myself all the time. Let me just
Speaker 1: put that out there. I don't response. I know what
Speaker 1: they say if you respond to yourself. So I do
Speaker 1: have conversations with myself. I'm not even gonna say they're
Speaker 1: not out loud, because they are. But it's all good anyway.
Speaker 1: So when you say when you're in a situation like
Speaker 1: that and you're like, oh, I really want to go
Speaker 1: with them, but it's like, dang, I don't want to
Speaker 1: miss out, that's a moment where you may have to
Speaker 1: tell yourself likeself, you need to prioritize. You know, you
Speaker 1: need to study, you know you need to like work
Speaker 1: on that work of time, and you know you need
Speaker 1: to like go to them. You said you're gonna go
Speaker 1: to the gym, and you're gonna have to say no,
Speaker 1: to your friends and say no to yourself, not this time.
Speaker 1: So yeah, many situations where we have to say no.
Speaker 3: I think the other feeling that comes up too is
Speaker 3: or the other idea that comes up is perfectionism.
Speaker 1: Oh tell me more so when it comes to.
Speaker 3: Saying no and setting those boundaries, if saying no for
Speaker 3: the perfectionists, if saying no means shattering that image of perfection,
Speaker 3: or saying no means you know that you won't look
Speaker 3: like your best self, or that event is not going
Speaker 3: to be the perfect image, that the perfect event that
Speaker 3: you were looking forward to or that you were trying
Speaker 3: to plan. If, in any way what it is that
Speaker 3: you're working towards you're afraid that it won't be perfect,
Speaker 3: then you find yourself in a situation where you're saying
Speaker 3: yes to things and agreeing to do things to make
Speaker 3: this thing look perfect, when really you're hurting yourself in
Speaker 3: the process.
Speaker 1: I never thought about that way. That's a really good point.
Speaker 1: That is really interesting, hmm. And I guess any other
Speaker 1: feelings there so you can think of it.
Speaker 2: I think those are themazing, Those are big, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I would agree for sure. Perfection and anxiety, Yes, just
Speaker 2: like Yusful. I had a situation on recently, but you
Speaker 2: know what, let me tell you the story.
Speaker 1: So recently I met with one of my coaches and
Speaker 1: we had such an amazing session. Like our sessions are
Speaker 1: so dope and we get like teary eyed. I mean,
Speaker 1: we talk about a lot of sensitive topics and I
Speaker 1: have these personal breakthroughs and it was such a great session.
Speaker 6: I am a hugger.
Speaker 1: I get off in the moment. I'm like, oh God.
Speaker 1: So she was leaving and I was like, and I
Speaker 1: something told me to just ask her because I like
Speaker 1: to ask for permission before. I just like we used
Speaker 1: to hug someone or touch someone or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And so I said to you, I was like, I said,
Speaker 1: I'm a hugger. Can I give you a hug after
Speaker 1: our session? Because we were like all in a moment
Speaker 1: and she said, oh no, I'm okay, thank you or
Speaker 1: something like that, and I in that moment it kind
Speaker 1: of because you know how when you go ask someone
Speaker 1: like can I give you a hug, You're kind of
Speaker 1: already got your arms a little opening them. You're kind
Speaker 1: of expecting it, right, because sometimes we do that, we
Speaker 1: ask someone something, but we expect them to say yes.
Speaker 1: And I was kind of called in the moment and
Speaker 1: it took me back because I paused, oh shit, she
Speaker 1: said no, let me move my hands. So I was
Speaker 1: like five percent salty, but I was about ninety five
Speaker 1: percent empowered because I was like, Yo, I love the
Speaker 1: way she said that, and she stood, she stood firm
Speaker 1: on what she believes. And I was like, Yo, that
Speaker 1: was dope.
Speaker 2: Ands shit.
Speaker 1: So next time I see you, I'm going to tell her, like,
Speaker 1: I really appreciated you saying no. I recognize that, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to use that in my own life because
Speaker 1: it was It wasn't rude, it wasn't disrespectful. She set
Speaker 1: a boundary with me. And afterwards I was like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: that's true, Like she is, we are in a professional space,
Speaker 1: Like I guess it wouldn't be appropriate to be like
Speaker 1: hugging up in here, because you.
Speaker 6: Know, but people hugging professional spaces.
Speaker 1: People do. People do.
Speaker 6: But it was just like, and it's not always appropriate.
Speaker 1: Uh oh, just shade, I'm but no. I thought it
Speaker 1: was like it was a really good example for me
Speaker 1: and it stood out to me and I just thought
Speaker 1: about it and I was like, that was so dope.
Speaker 1: How she did that, I'm so going to do that
Speaker 1: in my own life.
Speaker 3: So I think that's a great example because it also
Speaker 3: talks about that also can be applied to interacting with children.
Speaker 3: I remember having a conversation with another psychologist and she
Speaker 3: was talking about her daughter and how her daughter was
Speaker 3: like under five at the time, and she was teaching
Speaker 3: her daughter under five about appropriate boundary setting. And she
Speaker 3: told her daughter that her daughter did not that she
Speaker 3: did not have to hug anybody, that she did not
Speaker 3: feel comfortable hugging it. And what that did was because
Speaker 3: you know, you go to your family, at least I
Speaker 3: know in my family, like you walk in the door,
Speaker 3: and that's how you greet people. You greet everyone with
Speaker 3: a hug. But some people are not okay with touching
Speaker 3: any type of touching. Yes, And so she gave her
Speaker 3: daughter that permission to say no to people. And she
Speaker 3: said that there were some adults in the family who
Speaker 3: were taken aback by it at first, but eventually everybody
Speaker 3: learned or respect it. Because you're teaching your daughter boundary settings,
Speaker 3: you're teaching her autonomy over her own body as well.
Speaker 3: There's so many lessons, so many many dope lessons within
Speaker 3: that that that young girl is going to be empowered
Speaker 3: early on.
Speaker 1: That is I'm so happy you brought that up because
Speaker 1: my mom used to do that with me and my sisters,
Speaker 1: and I feel like most of us know what it's like.
Speaker 1: It's unfortunate, but I feel like it is what it is.
Speaker 1: Where you have those some people in the family, they're
Speaker 1: usually their uncles, and you already know people are like
Speaker 1: stay away from stay away from that one and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. My mom used to tell us you don't
Speaker 1: have to hug anybody, and if anybody does anything that
Speaker 1: makes you feel uncomfortable, you let them know. And I
Speaker 1: remember there was this one uncle that used to always,
Speaker 1: you know, someone gives you a hugb but it's a
Speaker 1: little too long, like a hand, a little too little,
Speaker 1: too low and the small back, or you ConA behind whispering.
Speaker 1: You don't got to do all that, you have to
Speaker 1: do all that, Okay, it's too much, doing too much,
Speaker 1: doing too much, And so she always being inappropriate. And
Speaker 1: so I feel like that your friend is so amazing
Speaker 1: that she told her daughter that because in situations like that,
Speaker 1: I remember as a young kid before I really felt
Speaker 1: empowered to like take my mom's advice. I would just
Speaker 1: when you're a kid, this is an adult, an authority figure.
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't say anything because I didn't really know,
Speaker 1: like what do I say? How do I say to
Speaker 1: this adult? Can you not do that?
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And so it was very difficult. Now I don't have
Speaker 1: a problem with that, and so, yeah, that's important.
Speaker 3: But I think the helpful piece within that situation was
Speaker 3: that mom was able to say to model for her
Speaker 3: daughter and back up her daughter. So when her daughter
Speaker 3: would say no and any adult in the room was
Speaker 3: taken aback, Mom would be right there to have her.
Speaker 6: Back to say, she said no exactly, she said what
Speaker 6: she said.
Speaker 1: She said what she said. Okay, no explanation is no justification,
Speaker 1: she said it. No, it's a full statement. Yes, who
Speaker 1: won't check her booth? It's a silly day over here
Speaker 1: on the heart Space podcast. Okay, we got the giggles today.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that's really important. I love the topic.
Speaker 1: I would love to also, I don't know, maybe we
Speaker 1: should dive into. I found this really cool article and
Speaker 1: it has like a few different ways that you can
Speaker 1: say no. Because I know, for me, even when I
Speaker 1: do say no, I do add a little justification and
Speaker 1: explanation in there, because I do I care about people's feelings.
Speaker 3: And I know that I might I know, did not
Speaker 3: just I know, but like it's a.
Speaker 1: Situation where it's like, you know, your cousin's like, can
Speaker 1: you shoot my mixtape with your friends? Can you shoo
Speaker 1: with your I mean those situations, I would never in
Speaker 1: life just say I would never in life just send
Speaker 1: him like a no. I do want to provide a
Speaker 1: little guidance in those situations, especially because he's like a
Speaker 1: young guy. But there are different ways, and so I
Speaker 1: want to just read off this list and feel free
Speaker 1: to write down whatever resonates with you, put it in
Speaker 1: your toolbox, use it when you need to. But these
Speaker 1: are just a few ways to say no and dom
Speaker 1: if you want to prize some feedback, girl, let's do it.
Speaker 1: The first is excellent for the scenario that you brought
Speaker 1: up about the brunch on the weekend, and so it
Speaker 1: simply says, I can't. I don't have any room in
Speaker 1: my calendar. Well I'm not free. There you go. It's
Speaker 1: straight to the point. You're not necessarily using the word no.
Speaker 1: But like you're making it clear that I cannot do this.
Speaker 3: You can also say I can't I'm not interested this time.
Speaker 3: There you go. It may open the door to a
Speaker 3: bigger conversation. They may try to poke and say, well,
Speaker 3: why aren't you interested? Why you don't want to go
Speaker 3: to brunch today? Girl?
Speaker 1: You don't have to.
Speaker 3: Continue in that conversation, and you can say I'm just
Speaker 3: no longer interesting today, but.
Speaker 1: Thank you in the conversation. That's it, goodbye, Like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yes, because people ask I feel
Speaker 1: like people ask questions sometimes and that is them, Like
Speaker 1: they have a tendency to overstep boundaries. Maybe that's another
Speaker 1: episode what to do when people overstep the boundary. We're
Speaker 1: talking about setting the boundary, but then part of b is.
Speaker 6: How not to be that person who's overstepping the boundary.
Speaker 1: Oh that part I like that. H So that's one
Speaker 1: another one. M. You don't even gotta do that. Let
Speaker 1: me take that back. You don't have to be apologetic.
Speaker 1: I can't. I really don't enjoy that work. So if
Speaker 1: someone wants you to volunteer or like take on another project,
Speaker 1: you know what, I really don't enjoy doing that. No,
Speaker 1: thank you. I was like that a little thank you,
Speaker 1: no thank you, no thank you can be the complete sentence.
Speaker 1: That could be the complete sentence right there.
Speaker 3: You don't have to offer an explanation. You just say no,
Speaker 3: thank you. All right, what's our next one? All right,
Speaker 3: let's see.
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of skimming to see, Okay, what do
Speaker 1: we want to do? Because they have a lot of
Speaker 1: extra ones. I needed to leave some free time for myself.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's not really I feel like
Speaker 1: that is a little bit that's kind of explaining. I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm gonna overshare sometimes, so I like to
Speaker 1: I just like to let people know like where I'm
Speaker 1: at and like, you know, make sure on the same page,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. So I still, as you can see,
Speaker 1: I am still a work in progress.
Speaker 3: This is hard for me, Okay, yeah, And I'm gonna
Speaker 3: say it like I think that that's a great point,
Speaker 3: is that you can't be you can't go from being
Speaker 3: that person that always says yes to then you're on
Speaker 3: that complete opposite extreme saying no to everything. And so
Speaker 3: there's gotta be some there is gonna be some back
Speaker 3: and forth. There's gonna be sometimes are gonna be sometimes
Speaker 3: when you do provide that explanation because you don't completely
Speaker 3: feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: Saying no exactly.
Speaker 3: It takes practice. And I think that's a good tip
Speaker 3: to point out, is that it takes practice saying no.
Speaker 3: You can try saying it in the mirror, you can
Speaker 3: try saying it in the car, you can try saying
Speaker 3: it to things, just because just to try it out.
Speaker 1: I would agree. And I think also speaking of what
Speaker 1: you said, just because you have an opening on your
Speaker 1: calendar or just because you are free doesn't mean you
Speaker 1: have to feel that space. So if you really don't
Speaker 1: want to do it, don't And if someone and you
Speaker 1: have to think about it this way, if you say
Speaker 1: no about something like let's say, for instance, my coach
Speaker 1: when she said, oh, no, I'm good, and it was
Speaker 1: very sweet, but she was very clear. If I would
Speaker 1: have got mad at her and then we could have
Speaker 1: had an attitude and then would have like wanted to
Speaker 1: work with a different coach, that would have been more
Speaker 1: like my shit, you know what I mean, Like she
Speaker 1: was clear on her boundary, but like if I would
Speaker 1: have had an attitude and wanted to be staking, it's like, yo,
Speaker 1: I gotta check myself, Like why so if someone makes
Speaker 1: you feel bad for you saying no, one setting a boundary,
Speaker 1: you really have to question that relationship, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 3: Right? And that goes back to what we were saying about.
Speaker 3: Next episode could be how to accept no from others? Ooh,
Speaker 3: like what does that mean when you're the person who
Speaker 3: is overstepping the boundaries.
Speaker 6: That's a good one.
Speaker 1: That's a really good one because I've definitely experienced that
Speaker 1: with my siblings, being as though like I, you know,
Speaker 1: helped raise them. I had to be like their parents
Speaker 1: for a long time and they got older and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, you don't have to listen to me
Speaker 1: all like, I mean, you still got to respect me,
Speaker 1: but you don't have to listen to me and do
Speaker 1: what I say. And I have to now respect you
Speaker 1: and your boundaries. So for me, that's a very interesting
Speaker 1: dynamic of.
Speaker 3: Ooh, I know my sisters are out there saying time,
Speaker 3: I hope you're paying attention for real, right.
Speaker 1: I know my siblings are probably like, yeah, remember that
Speaker 1: next time when you Yeah. So that's okay. Let me
Speaker 1: just share another example my little sisters. I don't know
Speaker 1: if she's gonna listen, but she it's her birthday. It
Speaker 1: was her birthday earlier this month, and she wanted me
Speaker 1: to order her something from this online store that many
Speaker 1: of us probably know, but we're not getting paid, so
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna shout them.
Speaker 6: Out no no.
Speaker 1: Free from So she asked me to order her the
Speaker 1: shirt and so this outfit, and I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: it's your birthday. I usually try to do that for
Speaker 1: my siblings when I can. So I look at the
Speaker 1: outphan and I was like, all right, the jeans are cool.
Speaker 1: But I was like, y'all, I'm not ordering you this
Speaker 1: top because your booby's gonna be showing. I'm not doing
Speaker 1: that because it's like a little too much cleavage. And
Speaker 1: she was like are you serious? And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing You ain't about to wanet get me
Speaker 1: in trouble, and I'm not about to have you all
Speaker 1: here looking like no, I ain't gonna say the word
Speaker 1: that I use. But I said a little song something
Speaker 1: and she was like, okay, I'm gonna look for another one.
Speaker 1: And then later I got her different shirt and she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I went back to that other shirt and I'll see
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. I didn't see it before, but
Speaker 1: I had to say no to her, and that was
Speaker 1: an instance where it was like it was appropriate because
Speaker 1: I'm not about to have her looking like she about
Speaker 1: to go walk the streets what they call them back
Speaker 1: in the day. Night. Yeah, we're not about to do that.
Speaker 1: So you know, sometimes you do have to say no
Speaker 1: your siblings.
Speaker 6: Yes, sometimes you do.
Speaker 3: And I think even as I was listening to that situation,
Speaker 3: like what was coming up for me was what if
Speaker 3: that's what you really want it?
Speaker 1: He's under age, That's the part I left out. She's
Speaker 1: under age.
Speaker 5: I left that far out and okay, and so but
Speaker 5: I think that brings up point though of like that
Speaker 5: there that sometimes there are parameters and there are legit
Speaker 5: reasons why we really should be saying.
Speaker 1: No exactly for sure.
Speaker 3: And then again it's about thinking about like what what
Speaker 3: boundaries are important for us and why are they important
Speaker 3: from us? So when we're trying to figure out, like, Okay,
Speaker 3: do I really want to say no to this event
Speaker 3: or to this activity? Why do I want to say no?
Speaker 1: And even if you don't share that with the person,
Speaker 1: like just getting clear with it within yourself, whether they're
Speaker 1: like I'm tired, I don't feel like it. Okay, that's cool.
Speaker 1: But if that's you, that's that's okay. But sometimes you
Speaker 1: don't want to like hurt the person that you're saying
Speaker 1: yes to when you say yes to something you don't
Speaker 1: even have the capacity to take it on, because that
Speaker 1: could just make things even worse because then you don't
Speaker 1: show up and you're not as president as you could be.
Speaker 1: Maybe you have an attitude so that just when we
Speaker 1: say yes to things and commit to things that we
Speaker 1: really don't want to do, it could just snowball onto
Speaker 1: something way bigger.
Speaker 3: And the thing that it brings up further is how
Speaker 3: to really check in with other boundaries that maybe you
Speaker 3: could be setting to make your life feel a little
Speaker 3: bit less stressful. Right, So, if you're saying going off
Speaker 3: with the example that you just gave, like, maybe I'm
Speaker 3: saying no because I'm tired, Well why am I tired?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Let me step back, use this as an opportunity to
Speaker 3: examine what is happening in my life that I'm finding
Speaker 3: myself feeling so tired. And if I'm feeling so tired
Speaker 3: when I'm looking at the things that I'm doing, are
Speaker 3: there other areas where I can be saying no, or
Speaker 3: I can and be making modifications so that I'm not
Speaker 3: tired every weekend and missing out on brunch with my girlfriends,
Speaker 3: because brunch with your girlfriends might be that thing that
Speaker 3: kind of pours into you.
Speaker 6: Like we were talking about in a previous episode, that's deep.
Speaker 1: That's good, that's some, that's some deep. That's that. That's
Speaker 1: that's that psychology right there.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: No, that's a really good point. I didn't even think
Speaker 1: about that. It all ties in together.
Speaker 3: Like you you can find yourself in a spiral of
Speaker 3: self examination.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And one thing I just want to not to
Speaker 1: be all over the place. I told you this is
Speaker 1: a silly episode today. We have the giggles and everything,
Speaker 1: but I thought about something that we didn't really touch on,
Speaker 1: and we talked about like setting physical boundaries when someone
Speaker 1: like does something on a physical level. One thing I've
Speaker 1: gotten good at as well is there people that are
Speaker 1: just touching Philly people and sometimes you don't even have
Speaker 1: to say no. What I've started to do is if
Speaker 1: someone touches me and I don't want to be touched,
Speaker 1: I moved their hand. So literally this happened. I was
Speaker 1: somewhere and this guy I literally don't I don't even
Speaker 1: know who this guy was. It was like a random
Speaker 1: was it networking, It was somewhere and it was, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't remember, it was somewhere, and he looked kind
Speaker 1: of like reached up. I think he touched my shoulder
Speaker 1: and I picked up his hand off my shoulder and
Speaker 1: just moved it, and he got the picture real quick,
Speaker 1: like don't put your hand on my shoulder. I'm good.
Speaker 1: And I didn't have to say anything. It was more
Speaker 1: so meeting him where he thought he was going to
Speaker 1: be me at and I was like, we ain't even
Speaker 1: doing that. So that could be something too, being like
Speaker 1: physical in a safe way, if that makes sense.
Speaker 6: So talk to me a.
Speaker 3: Little bit more about that, because like I know that
Speaker 3: that happens a lot in workplace settings where or networking
Speaker 3: evens like professional settings where our job might be dependent
Speaker 3: on this interaction, right, And in that instance, you were
Speaker 3: able to like set that boundary by plightly and it
Speaker 3: sounds like it wasn't even aggressive, you just feel likely.
Speaker 1: I think I might have smiled as I did it,
Speaker 1: like I no, thank you, and you removed his hand.
Speaker 3: But my guess is that's not the first time you've
Speaker 3: done that, I don't think. So can you think about
Speaker 3: a time when you didn't do it and how did
Speaker 3: that make you feel?
Speaker 1: Let me think, Well, honestly, I would consider myself to
Speaker 1: be a touchy, philly person, like just like a nurturing person.
Speaker 1: And so even I have colleagues, we might give each
Speaker 1: other hugs and things like that at work, and so
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. But it's when it's someone that
Speaker 1: I either don't know like this person, I didn't really
Speaker 1: know that person well, or it's just a creepy person,
Speaker 1: like you know how sometimes you get a vibe and
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, you're not just this is not like
Speaker 1: an innocent, just cordial sort of friendly thing, like you're
Speaker 1: being a creep right now exactly. And in those situations,
Speaker 1: I feel like that when I'm able to, that's when
Speaker 1: it kicks in for me. But I gotta think about that,
Speaker 1: don I'm gonna to pay attention. I feel like, now
Speaker 1: that we're talking about it, I'm sure next week someone's
Speaker 1: gonna try me and I'm gonna have to do it,
Speaker 1: and then I'll have to tell you next time, my girl,
Speaker 1: let me tell you. But I can't think of anything
Speaker 1: at the moment, But I don't like those situations. It
Speaker 1: is still uncomfortable, but I still push myself to advocate
Speaker 1: for myself.
Speaker 3: So what's kind of going through your mind at that
Speaker 3: time where you're like, is there like maybe like a
Speaker 3: phrase or something that comes to mind that says, I
Speaker 3: gotta do this, Like something that kind of motivates you
Speaker 3: to stand up for yourself in those uncomfortable moments.
Speaker 1: The first thing that came to mind where you just
Speaker 1: asked me that was WTF, Like Okay, what the F
Speaker 1: What's the first thing that came to mind? Like why
Speaker 1: is this person's hand on me? And then from there
Speaker 1: it's like what am I gonna do? And I think
Speaker 1: for me as well, like being someone that is an
Speaker 1: abuse survivor, there are certain people I don't want to
Speaker 1: some touches just don't feel good and it can be
Speaker 1: like traumatizing or triggering, And so for me that's like
Speaker 1: a fight or fight kind of comes in where I
Speaker 1: feel a certain way on the inside, But that just
Speaker 1: depends again on like the instincts. So what kind of
Speaker 1: vibe am I getting? But yet I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: pay more attention to that to think about, like what's
Speaker 1: going through my mind when that happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think oftentimes, like you raise an important
Speaker 3: point that I think will probably have to touch on
Speaker 3: a new episode of Boundary is setting for survivors, because
Speaker 3: that can probably not probably I know that oftentimes that
Speaker 3: can look a lot different than some of the situations
Speaker 3: that we've talked about in today's episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point because I even work with students,
Speaker 1: and like when I go to speaking engagements, me and
Speaker 1: the students we vibe. You know, these are sometimes middle school,
Speaker 1: high school, and college students. We ube. Sometimes there are tears,
Speaker 1: and I've had to remind myself even though I have
Speaker 1: a good intentions, my intentions they're pure, and so if
Speaker 1: we're if they're sharing something with me, I want to
Speaker 1: touch their shoulder. I had a student come up and
Speaker 1: share a traumatizing experience with me after a speech, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to give her a hug. And so now
Speaker 1: I'm like reminding myself asked to touch because I don't
Speaker 1: want to. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable, even
Speaker 1: though I'm coming from a good place. And so that's
Speaker 1: something I'm mindful of in those moments for sure, where
Speaker 1: it's like can I put my hand on your shoulder?
Speaker 1: Can I give you a hug? Is that okay? And
Speaker 1: if they say no, obviously respecting their space, but just
Speaker 1: not being that person that doesn't give them a choice
Speaker 1: and re traumatizing them. So that's a really good point.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't cover that.
Speaker 3: And I think you know, when we kind of think
Speaker 3: about all the ways that we've talked about boundaries, we've
Speaker 3: talked about boundaries in a multitude and how they come
Speaker 3: up for us in today's episode. So I hope that
Speaker 3: you all were able to like stick up along with
Speaker 3: us for the ride and really keep up and share
Speaker 3: some of the last with us. And if you go
Speaker 3: to our show notes, I promise we will have it
Speaker 3: in order for you so that you will know exactly
Speaker 3: what tips are going to really be helpful for you
Speaker 3: in learning to just say no.
Speaker 1: Just say no, because no is a complete sentence. It
Speaker 1: does not require justification or explanation.
Speaker 3: Please note that our show may contain conversations about self health, advice,
Speaker 3: self empowerment, and mental health, but it is by no
Speaker 3: means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal
Speaker 3: relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you are
Speaker 3: someone you know is in need of mental health care,
Speaker 3: please visit the Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology Today
Speaker 3: or contact your insurance provider.
Speaker 1: If you liked what you heard and want to keep
Speaker 1: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and
Speaker 1: Twitter at her space podcast or check out our website
Speaker 1: at herspacepodcast dot com. And before we meet again, repeat
Speaker 1: after me, I am not defined by where I come
Speaker 1: from or what happened to me. I get to create
Speaker 1: my own destiny.
Speaker 6: Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week, Lady