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Speaker 1: Before we jump into today's episode. We've been teasing it

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Speaker 1: a little bit, but the time has finally come. We

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Speaker 1: have a planetarium film that is coming out on November sixth. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's called Remix The Unexpected Side of Science, and we

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Speaker 1: would love if some of our very very cool friends

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Speaker 1: that are listening to our show right now would be

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Speaker 1: a part of it. If you head to the link

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Speaker 1: in our bio on Instagram, we have a really cool

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Speaker 1: way for you to incorporate yourself into our planetarium film.

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Speaker 1: I'm TT and I'm Zukiah and this is Dope Labs.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore

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Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen that trend on social media that's like

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Speaker 1: propaganda I'm falling for. It's basically people listing the things

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Speaker 1: that they love that may be a scam or not

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Speaker 1: very popular, but they don't care.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I have seen it, and I'm like, what's on my list?

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Speaker 1: What's on your list? I got a few things. A

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Speaker 1: probably that soda is not that bad for you. I

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Speaker 1: don't even know if there's anything out there that says that,

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Speaker 1: but that's what I.

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Speaker 2: Tell so.

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Speaker 1: I think I've had some shifts. I know, I've looked

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Speaker 1: at the evidence and I'm like, coffee is good for me.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that that it was a wife swap

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Speaker 1: episode or where they switched the wives out and the

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Speaker 1: families and that little boy was like, bacon.

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Speaker 2: Is good for me. I feel like that a lot

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Speaker 2: of sad.

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Speaker 1: About all the things I love, and I'm like, of course,

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Speaker 1: even if there's evidence that tells me it's not, I

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Speaker 1: feel the same way. I mean, I also believe that

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Speaker 1: barrel jeans are cute. Now. I know that that is

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Speaker 1: a polarizing topic right now because of the shape of them.

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Speaker 1: Some people are like absolutely not me all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love a barrel jeane.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think the mind is such a curious

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Speaker 1: place because, like you were like, oh, they're calling it propaganda,

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Speaker 1: but is it propaganda if you know it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: true and it just fits your belief Like, what's propaganda?

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Speaker 2: Straight up and down? What is it?

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Speaker 1: Right? Propaganda is a communication tactic that is used to

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Speaker 1: influence people to further some type of agenda, and we

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Speaker 1: know it works one hundred like almost one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: of the time. We've seen it work throughout history. Actually,

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Speaker 1: even when we think about how maps are drawn. We

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Speaker 1: talked about that in our map episode. Yes, or I

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Speaker 1: should say cartography. I lend a new word, Russia being

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Speaker 1: drawn the way that it is, how it's really really large,

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Speaker 1: Like when you look at a map, it's really big,

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Speaker 1: it's actually not that big. And that was propaganda that

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Speaker 1: was put in place a long time ago in order

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Speaker 1: to make Russia seem like really big, so that they

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Speaker 1: seemed like a really big threat. Imagine you see this

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Speaker 1: whole big country, it's taken up so much of the map,

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Speaker 1: and you're feeling like, oh, these are aggressive or people

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Speaker 1: that are trying to change your way of life. It

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Speaker 1: instills a little bit of fear in your heart. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. And that's not the only place where

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Speaker 1: we see propaganda at play. This week, we're putting ourselves

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Speaker 1: under the microscope. We've talked about it before in little

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Speaker 1: bits and pieces, but right, I think we just got

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Speaker 1: to say it once and for all. Understanding objectivity or

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Speaker 1: the perception of it, does not make you immune to bias.

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Speaker 2: Right, You not too smart to fall for the okie doke.

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Speaker 1: Okay, never you can have all the number studies, results

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Speaker 1: and everything else in the world. And you know, all

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Speaker 1: those tables don't move like a good story does.

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Speaker 2: You know, look at the Jesse Smole a story.

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Speaker 1: Man, what happened there is cause it was like everybody

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Speaker 1: was behind him and then they were like then they

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Speaker 1: were like nah, and then everybody's behind him again.

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Speaker 2: Some people were like, I stand with Jesse.

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Speaker 1: And there's a documentary that came out that I have

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Speaker 1: not watched yet, but I need to because everybody's saying

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Speaker 1: it's really good.

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Speaker 2: M So we have to find that out.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think like when you see something

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Speaker 1: like that, that's a prime example.

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Speaker 2: I stand with Jesse.

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Speaker 1: What would make you put on a shirt to stand

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Speaker 1: with somebody that you don't even really know? Right?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: But our brain prefers these like anecdotal sensational stories. And

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Speaker 1: really it's just evolutionary psychology, old brain, old world brain.

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Speaker 1: It's hijacking current modern day brain. You know, we got

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Speaker 1: to reset. We need a new operating sys. Listen on our.

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Speaker 2: Brain, no upgrades. It is terrible.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting because we have a brain

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Speaker 1: that takes vivid stories, so whether it's rewarding or painful,

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Speaker 1: and it don't even have to be rewarding and painful physically.

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Speaker 1: It could be socially rewarding or painful. Your brain says

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Speaker 1: this weighs the most, like this is the most important thing.

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Speaker 1: This reminds me of Lab thirty eight.

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Speaker 2: So anxious.

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Speaker 1: When we had Wendy Suzuki on the show, she talked

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Speaker 1: about anxiety and how before the anxiety system acted as

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Speaker 1: a way for us to deter threats out in the wild.

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Speaker 2: So back in the caveman that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, different things like hearing some stuff, wrestling.

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Speaker 2: I think you were with me.

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Speaker 1: That was just yesterday, just yesterday, those leaves were blowing

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Speaker 1: and I was like, what is that.

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Speaker 2: When we were together? Gonna scare my friend?

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Speaker 1: Those evolutionary leaps have not occurred yet from my no,

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Speaker 1: not for any of us.

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Speaker 2: It'll running from rustling.

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Speaker 1: But think about when you see like a silhouette or

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Speaker 1: you think you see something and you kind of jump.

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Speaker 2: All of those things, even.

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Speaker 1: What feels like social discord, Like even if it feels like, okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe this person is not having a good time, or

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Speaker 1: oh they about to start fighting, you know, all those

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Speaker 1: things triggered physiological changes in our bodies. And back in

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Speaker 1: the day, Like we're saying that bought you time. Okay,

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Speaker 1: faster heart rate, I know, to be more attentive. My

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Speaker 1: muscles are gonna be ready. You know, all that anxiety

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Speaker 1: system triggered all of that, so you could be like,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm ready to escape if I need to,

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Speaker 1: or ready to fight, so fight or flight? Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so present day this translates to It might be something

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Speaker 1: like you get a text message from somebody who's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we need to talk or I need that, which is

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Speaker 1: what the kids are saying these days, where it's like

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Speaker 1: be gonna fight, you need that. That's what they say.

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Speaker 1: Somebody text me, you need that. I'm not responding, no

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Speaker 1: fight or flight. You're not responding to the text, but

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Speaker 1: your body is responding.

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Speaker 2: Mine is freeze, fight or freeze. I'm freezing.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's so interesting, Like our brains haven't

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Speaker 1: made the leap, but our environments have so before you

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Speaker 1: know that kind of thing, it was slow information, nothing

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Speaker 1: to be alarmed about until there was real threat, and

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Speaker 1: that worked great for our brains working like that was great.

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Speaker 1: But now it's constant feedback, constant alerts. Is what's that

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Speaker 1: sound outside? Is that the trash been or is that

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Speaker 1: an intruder? Like so many things, there's a lot going on,

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Speaker 1: and I think one of the things that I know

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Speaker 1: for a fact that I fall victim too is like

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Speaker 1: availability heuristics. Have you heard of this? Like what is

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Speaker 1: most recently available in your mind? Like events that are

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Speaker 1: easy to recall and that feel emotionally intense, they seem

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Speaker 1: way more likely than they really are. I have this problem. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm susceptible to this. This is when we started talking about, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you're not immune to bias.

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Speaker 2: I'm not immune to this.

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Speaker 1: If I watch something and they're like, oh and the person,

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Speaker 1: Now you know. I love a lot of true crime

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Speaker 1: and false crime too, just fiction. If there is an

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Speaker 1: episode of something I watch and there like, oh, and

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Speaker 1: the body was chopped up and was on a trash

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Speaker 1: bag in the side of the road. Every time I see

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Speaker 1: your trash bag, I'm gonna be like, is it body shaped?

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Speaker 2: What's it looking like?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just like whatever I last saw, And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah. It's like when people used to

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Speaker 1: send those emails that would be like don't step outside

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Speaker 1: the gas station. They under your car, they swiping your

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Speaker 1: tearing your achilles steel and all this, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: you gotta jump to get in your car. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: wild and those things still exist. It's not even back

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Speaker 1: in the day. Like you go on TikTok, you can

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Speaker 1: find people who say, oh, if you see a piece

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Speaker 1: of tape on your wheel, it's because they're trying to

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Speaker 1: traffic you. And hey, that works on me. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: start looking at my tires before I get in the

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Speaker 1: car because all those things make me nervous. Yes, I'm

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Speaker 1: falling for it, especially when it comes to my safety. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm falling for it. But I think that's because what

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Speaker 1: we see is there is some truth there right now,

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Speaker 1: what the odds are that something like that is happening.

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Speaker 1: Let's say tape on your car, tape on your car,

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Speaker 1: that somebody might have had tape on their car and

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Speaker 1: they got abducted and they were killed. That's a sad story.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's too graphic, but also somebody had tape on

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Speaker 1: their car and it was just to hold that back

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Speaker 1: windshield down because they went through the car wash, right,

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Speaker 1: And what your brain says is, here's this tragic case.

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Speaker 1: I remember that and that dominates, like what you think

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Speaker 1: about and so your risk perception is like, oh nah,

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Speaker 1: this is risky tape on here, call the whole lice,

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Speaker 1: call somebody you know. And even when the information when

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Speaker 1: it says, hey, crime is really low in your area,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Your brain is just subject to this, right,

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Speaker 1: And that makes me think of our monkey pox episode

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Speaker 1: where that was Lap seventy six for anybody that's trying

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Speaker 1: to go back and listen, where we talk about how

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Speaker 1: sensational headlines how it impacts epidemiology, like showing how intense

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Speaker 1: or memorable coverage can inflate perceive risk to base rates.

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Speaker 1: And I remember there was a video that was going

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Speaker 1: across TikTok and instagram reels of somebody on a New

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Speaker 1: York train who had like bumps on their skin and

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Speaker 1: people were like, look, this person's got monkey pocks.

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Speaker 2: That person did not have monkey pocks.

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Speaker 1: But I did not see a follow up video also

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Speaker 1: going viral correcting the story, because the sensational thing is

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Speaker 1: always gonna catch people's attention, but the correction was never

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Speaker 1: as sensational. That reminds me, Okay, you said Lap seventy six,

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Speaker 1: Lab eighty two in your feed where we talked about

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Speaker 1: social media, and in that lab we unpatch how like

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Speaker 1: attention hacking or like virality, things that go viral, and

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Speaker 1: like kind of how your algorithm may be curated. So

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see the things that other people are like,

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, let me share.

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Speaker 2: You can see.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I see stuff and I'm like, this is wild.

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Speaker 1: I see how many little envelope paper envelope paper presser. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, people are sharing this. And so then you

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Speaker 1: layer that things being shared and pushed in the front

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Speaker 1: of your algorithm or the top of your feed, layer

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Speaker 1: that on top of that, recall, right, And so it

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Speaker 1: makes those top of mind stories that have the sensational

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Speaker 1: thing about them they feel even more common or true

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Speaker 1: because also when you tell it, somebody's like, yes, I

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Speaker 1: saw that too, right, And it just confirms it in

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Speaker 1: your mind even though I know these things. I think

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Speaker 1: back to Lap thirty seven in Denial where we had

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Speaker 1: doctor Gil Sinatras and Barber Hope Ford.

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Speaker 2: That was such a good episode. I love that one.

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Speaker 1: And they talked about why like these kind of vivid

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Speaker 1: narratives and beat tables and charts. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: look at tables and charts. I want a real with animation. Okay, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's how anecdotes that you hear steer

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Speaker 1: your judgment more so than like comprehensive evidence. These last

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Speaker 1: few episodes over the past few weeks have just been

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Speaker 1: showing me more and more how I am a victim

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Speaker 1: to this brain and body. So already my brain is ancient.

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Speaker 1: You said it had made evolutionary leaps. Now I didn't

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Speaker 1: hear you say that yours hadn't made evolutionary leaps. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to feel about it.

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Speaker 2: You know what, To be fair, mine hasn't either.

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Speaker 1: Mine has not either, because let me tell you, I

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Speaker 1: will jump six feet into the air if I hear

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Speaker 1: something while I'm sleeping, and it'll just be my dog's

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Speaker 1: toenails on the ground.

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Speaker 2: The other way.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm jumping to conclusions, all right, swan diving into them,

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Speaker 1: like if you said this, then it must mean you

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Speaker 1: think this. And so all of this really makes me

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Speaker 1: think about what's been going on recently with this whole

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Speaker 1: Acetamenafin Talanov situation, you know, and how that this can

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Speaker 1: lead to a lot of misinformation going viral and really hurting.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you haven't seen this in the news,

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Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure you have.

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Speaker 2: So RFK.

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Speaker 1: Junior is the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and

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Speaker 1: he recently put out an alert that basically said that

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Speaker 1: pregnant people should not be taking talanaw when they're pregnant

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Speaker 1: to reduce their fever because it leads to autism in

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Speaker 1: the child, which there's no proof of that. And so

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Speaker 1: there's there's two things. There's two things that I'm just

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Speaker 1: like jumped out of me at first, which I'm like,

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Speaker 1: Talinow's a brand, right, explain that for people that don't

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Speaker 1: understand that don't know. Talanaw is a branch of a

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Speaker 1: company that creates medicine Aceta menafin. Talanaw is the brand.

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Speaker 1: It's like Kleenex, you know what I mean. Kleenex is

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Speaker 1: the brand, but the product is tissue. The product is tissue,

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Speaker 1: like for blowing your nose, and it's just or what's

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Speaker 1: another and if that's good? Because if blowing your nose

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Speaker 1: was bad, you wouldn't say don't just use clean, you

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Speaker 1: would say don't use tissue to blow.

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Speaker 2: Your nose, exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so using talanol as the word that we are

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Speaker 1: using is it just lacks all scientific integrity on its

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Speaker 1: face because of that. But if we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: sea of menafin that pregnant people use if they get

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Speaker 1: sick when they're pregnant to reduce their fever, because when

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Speaker 1: you are pregnant, you are carrying a baby in your belly.

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Speaker 1: If you get a fever and it goes too high,

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Speaker 1: it can potentially like really damage your fetus. And so

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Speaker 1: what pregnant people do is take talan all to make

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Speaker 1: sure that they keep their body temperature low so that

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Speaker 1: they don't have any adverse effects on the baby that

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Speaker 1: they're carrying. And so telling folks not to do that

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Speaker 1: is one going to incite a lot of fear in

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Speaker 1: the people who already have been doing that or the

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Speaker 1: people who feel like they have to do that and

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Speaker 1: are not sure what they could do to make their

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Speaker 1: temperature go down. But then you're also hearing things from

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Speaker 1: the current president of the United States saying you gotta

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Speaker 1: like tough it out. That's not how that works. It's

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Speaker 1: not an issue of toughness at all. And so, and

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about biases and falling for the okie dog,

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Speaker 1: this is coming from the highest office in the land.

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Speaker 2: And it's scary. Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting, like where people draw the line.

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Speaker 1: You know, there are some things and people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I see where they're going, or that's not for me.

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Speaker 1: This what do you think we're seeing there with Talanow?

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's just oh, people already had something

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Speaker 1: against Talanow before. You think it's fear? Do you think

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Speaker 1: it's like I think it's fear, and it's tapping into

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Speaker 1: the fear of fear that a lot of people have

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Speaker 1: about the health and wellness of their kids. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: autism is something that people are like, there was an

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Speaker 1: autism back in my day.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there was. They just didn't have a way of

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Speaker 2: diagnosing it and.

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Speaker 1: Or a name to call it, or.

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Speaker 2: A name to call it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know, you might have said, oh, so

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Speaker 1: and so is a little bit special, a little bit different.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have the vocabulary, the words, the classifications that

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Speaker 1: we have now. And they're looking for a silver bullet

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Speaker 1: is not the right term, but a scapegoat is the

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Speaker 1: right term. They're looking for a scapegoat so that they

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Speaker 1: could say this is the reason why, Okay, we'll just

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Speaker 1: stay away from that, so people can feel a sense

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Speaker 1: of like comfort from that. Yes, and that's not wise.

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Speaker 1: It's just not wise at all because it doesn't get

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Speaker 1: to the fact. And the more we wave our hands

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Speaker 1: and say, okay, it's probably a seed of menafin, it's

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Speaker 1: a set of menafit. And he's also pulling funds away

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Speaker 1: from research. You see where I'm going like, this is

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Speaker 1: dangerous territory because like you're putting out things that have

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Speaker 1: not been proved scientifically, but then not funding the science

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Speaker 1: that can get us too actual fact. I think this

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Speaker 1: is really interesting because there feels like multiple things at play.

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Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned statements about things that haven't been proved,

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Speaker 1: and I think even if there are things that have

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Speaker 1: weak associations, you know, we've talked about causation and correlation

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Speaker 1: being different, and I think another thing that we know

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Speaker 1: about these brains is like they like to hold one story.

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Speaker 1: They don't like to hold multiple things. So even as

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Speaker 1: if we think back to what we saw at the

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Speaker 1: top of twenty twenty when we were trying to make

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Speaker 1: sense of a global pandemic, our brains don't like to

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Speaker 1: hold multiple things. And so when you give someone a

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Speaker 1: single storyline. That's a lot neaterer. That's a lot easier

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Speaker 1: to think. And also when you layer social components on

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Speaker 1: top of it, like, well, if this comes from someone

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Speaker 1: who is part of this political party, if I am

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Speaker 1: part of this political party, then I believe this thing. Right,

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Speaker 1: you can really think about think and not even just

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Speaker 1: group think. Is like when you go along with the crowd.

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Speaker 1: This is like group identity, Like my identity is tied

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Speaker 1: to this. I am a person who because I believe

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Speaker 1: these other things, then I must believe this. And I

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Speaker 1: think we are seeing more and more over time these

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Speaker 1: odd things that are tied to group identity, Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like group identity used to be like we celebrate

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Speaker 1: Christmas or we don't, you know what I mean, And

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Speaker 1: now it's tied to I wear an American flag pin

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Speaker 1: or I don't and or I put a stick room

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Speaker 1: this kind of stick room on my car or I

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Speaker 1: don't like.

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Speaker 2: It's all these little tiny things that.

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Speaker 1: Feel so yeah, abstract and UNRELI how is that related

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Speaker 1: to identity?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: And then I think when something else that you said

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Speaker 1: about in the case of a sentiment offin that felt

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Speaker 1: really interesting to me, reminded me of what we talked

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Speaker 1: about with Lindsay A Joe who did our episode on pain,

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Speaker 1: and she talked about the expectation of relief. So if

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Speaker 1: I tell you, hey, that's what it is, so you

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Speaker 1: won't have to worry about this anymore, whether that's true

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Speaker 1: or not, if you expect that, Hey, when I don't

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Speaker 1: take a see of minifit, I don't have to worry

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Speaker 1: about this thing that gives you immediate relief in your brain,

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Speaker 1: your brain can start to think about like, Okay, well

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Speaker 1: I can stop worrying about that. I can worry about

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Speaker 1: something else. And I think for some.

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Speaker 2: People that may feel good. I know, I like to

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Speaker 2: take task off my plate, just clear it.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to see it control all the league.

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Speaker 1: What you're saying completely lines up when we start talking

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Speaker 1: about crime, when we see people that are saying like

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Speaker 1: whether or not we need you know, these different groups

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Speaker 1: showing up in these various.

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Speaker 2: Cities that we've been seeing recently.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about health, when we talk about it,

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Speaker 1: see the minifit, access to vaccines, this and that, like

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Speaker 1: all of those things, we see these same kind of

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Speaker 1: thought processes and cognitive biases playing out. And another place

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Speaker 1: where we see that that we don't talk about often

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Speaker 1: on this show, but something happened recently and we got

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Speaker 1: to talk about.

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Speaker 2: It is religion. That is very true, very true.

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Speaker 1: We know that religion could be very sensitive for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, which makes it. But recently there's been

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Speaker 1: some virality around people thinking that the rapture was upon them. So,

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Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know in Christianity, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure which or which branches of Christianity, but I'll

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Speaker 1: say Christianity as the big umbrella that the rapture is.

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Speaker 1: When Jesus decides to come back, he takes the souls

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Speaker 1: of all of his believers to heaven and leaves behind

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Speaker 1: the non believers. And so people were saying that there

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Speaker 1: are signs that this is going to happen. Even though

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Speaker 1: in the Bible it says that nobody will know the

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Speaker 1: time or day that the raptor has happened, these folks

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Speaker 1: said that they did know the time and the day,

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Speaker 1: and people were selling their cars, they were getting rid

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Speaker 1: of their apartments, they were getting rid of all of

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Speaker 1: their worldly possessions waiting for the rapture that did not come.

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Speaker 1: I think that is another prime example of group identity.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's hard for me to reconcile. It's easy

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Speaker 1: actually now that we're talking about to step away and

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Speaker 1: reconcile it. But when it was happening, I was like,

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Speaker 1: it was easy for me to judge, right, and that

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Speaker 1: is that exact same thing I was talking about. I

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Speaker 1: was like, where I'm not immune to this kind of bias.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm a person that reads the literature and

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Speaker 1: figures this stuff out. And so even if you read

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Speaker 1: your text, it says you won't know the day or time,

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Speaker 1: the day or the hour. So if somebody knows the

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Speaker 1: day or the hour, then they're not the person that

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Speaker 1: aligns with this text.

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Speaker 2: Obvious. It says it in the user manual.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, girl, get off your high horse, right right.

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Speaker 1: Think about how people may be feeling. Think about how

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed people are because of the state of the world, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: because of the state of the world, and how excited

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Speaker 1: you might be about the relief of being in a

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Speaker 1: better place. Happen to worry about all of these things,

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Speaker 1: And I just think one of the things I've been

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Speaker 1: asking myself is how to meet these moments when I

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Speaker 1: see these things and I'm like, well, that obviously doesn't

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Speaker 1: make sense, and I'm you know, turning into Caddie Zakiyah.

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Speaker 1: How do I meet those moments with some more compassion

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Speaker 1: because I know there are plenty of people looking at

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Speaker 1: the things that I believe and say and do and

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Speaker 1: are saying, girl, it's not lining up, it's not adding up.

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Speaker 1: And so this show working with you us talking to

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Speaker 1: experts and being exposed to this information, I'm like, try,

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Speaker 1: I try to infuse it in my mock patterns when

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Speaker 1: I am reading information interacting with people all of that.

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Speaker 1: It's so true, and I think that's a great place

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Speaker 1: for us to land, you know, where it's like understanding

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Speaker 1: each other in the grander sense, like everywhere all around

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Speaker 1: the world, that we all are in search of belonging,

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Speaker 1: and we're all in search of happiness, and that in

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Speaker 1: pursuit of that, we might, you know, try and get

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Speaker 1: some shortcuts to happiness and belonging and fall for some

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Speaker 1: biases that might not necessarily be true, but you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's just propaganda that you're just gonna fall for.

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Speaker 1: And it's okay, mm hm, you gotta you gotta fall

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Speaker 1: for something.

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Speaker 2: Because we're all gonna do it. Yes, Yeah, It's.

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Speaker 1: Just part of living. That's how these human brains are wired.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm like, hey, you mad at this person

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Speaker 1: for being human? And that's the real that's the real

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Speaker 1: question I have to ask myself. This reminds me of

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Speaker 1: doctor Harrison just a few weeks ago saying the ultimate

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Speaker 1: show of humanity is compassion. And so I've been trying

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Speaker 1: to carry that put in my pocket a little nugget.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I love that.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope

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Speaker 1: Labs podcast, TT is on X and Instagram at d

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Speaker 1: R Underscore T s h O.

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Speaker 2: And you can find Takiya at Ze said so. Dope

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Speaker 2: Labs is a production.

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Speaker 1: Of Lemonada Media. Our supervising producer is Keegan Zimma and

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00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: our producer is Issara Acevez. Dope Labs is sound designed,

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Speaker 1: edited and mixed by James farber Lamanada Media's Vice President

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00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from

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Speaker 1: iHeart podcast is Katrina Norvil.

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00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: Marketing lead is Alison Canter.

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00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex

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00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: sugi Ura.

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00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 2: With additional music by Elijah Harvey.

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Speaker 1: Dope Labs is executive produced by US T T Show

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Speaker 1: Dia and Zakiah Wattlei.