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Speaker 1: com slash Nancy Grace. Thank you, zip recruiter. Climb stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two.

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Speaker 1: A pickup truck turning down a pedestrian path for runners, walkers, bicyclists,

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Speaker 1: and it appears that driver was aiming right for them.

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Speaker 1: All I heard was the impact of a crash, and

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Speaker 1: I turned around see where that came from, and I

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Speaker 1: saw the white pickup truck. Authorities revealing that suspect in

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Speaker 1: a rented pickup truck made a deliberate turn onto that path.

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Speaker 1: It is the deadliest attack since not eleven. I see

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Speaker 1: two gentlemen laying there when they have tire track lawks

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Speaker 1: across them. I saw a guy with two guns. He's

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Speaker 1: just standing in the middle of discreet at least eight

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Speaker 1: dead tonight, many more injured. The driver running people over

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Speaker 1: his path about a mile long before he ended. This

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Speaker 1: was an act of terror, and a particularly cowardly act

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Speaker 1: of terror aimed at innocent civilians, aimed at people going

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Speaker 1: about their lives who had no idea what was about

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Speaker 1: to hit them. We know that this action was intended

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Speaker 1: to break our spirit, but we also know New Yorkers

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Speaker 1: are strong. New Yorkers are resilient, and our spirit will

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Speaker 1: never be moved by an act of violence and act

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Speaker 1: meant to intimidate us. We have been tested before as

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Speaker 1: a city very near the site of today's tragedy, and

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Speaker 1: New Yorkers do not give in in the face of

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Speaker 1: these kinds of actions. Will respond as we always do.

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Speaker 1: We will be undeterred. We know we will get down

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of what happened. I want to ask

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Speaker 1: all New Yorkers, all Americans, to keep the families of

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Speaker 1: those lost in your thoughts and prayers. They will need

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Speaker 1: our support. And I want to ask all New Yorkers

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Speaker 1: to be vigilant. Americans mode down dead in the so

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Speaker 1: called capital of the world, right here on American soil.

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Speaker 1: As a man injurs fifteen kills eight shouting Allah, who

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Speaker 1: bar in New York leaves behind notes and a flag

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Speaker 1: pledging loyalty to a terror group and proud of it.

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories and we want justice?

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Speaker 1: How did it happen? Police insiders say the man is

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Speaker 1: a terrorist who killed civilians on Tuesday, eight dead, fifteen

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Speaker 1: injured after he drove a mile down a bike path.

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Speaker 1: He's been here, says two thousand and ten. How has

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Speaker 1: he gone under the radar for that long only to

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Speaker 1: unleash taking American lives? He's lived in Ohio, in Florida,

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Speaker 1: currently residing in New Jersey. Interesting? How did trucking companies

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Speaker 1: registered under his name? How? How did that happen? How

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Speaker 1: is he an Uber driver? How did he go under

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Speaker 1: the radar only to make himself known with murder? Joining

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Speaker 1: me right now, Bruce Alexander, terror expert whose career spans

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Speaker 1: over thirty years in counter terrorism, intelligence, security, homeland security,

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Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist Dr Daniel Bober, Emmy Award winning investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: Art Harris, and death scene investigator Joseph S. Got Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. First of all, let's get

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Speaker 1: the facts. Art Harris, investigative reporter, What happened? Pantcy this

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Speaker 1: Uzbek National linted a truck in New Jersey and yesterday

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Speaker 1: drove it into a crowd in Manhattan, Lower Manhattan, moaning down,

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Speaker 1: killing eleven Injuring thirteen as he drove it along a

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Speaker 1: bike path in the shadows of the World Trade Center

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Speaker 1: memory and uh it was chaos, uh it Uh. He

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Speaker 1: then gets out of the truck with a what looked

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Speaker 1: like guns but they are fake guns, one paintball gun

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Speaker 1: uh and a BB gun and starts yelling Allah Akbar,

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Speaker 1: which you know is God as great people have reported that,

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Speaker 1: and he's taken down. He's shot once by a very

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Speaker 1: vigilant New York City police officer and he's now under

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Speaker 1: a and actually I hear cooperating with law enforcement, which

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Speaker 1: could give us an important window into his motives. They

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Speaker 1: believe that he was radicalized in a lone wolf type

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Speaker 1: but with ISIS sympathies. Uh. This is someone very disturbing,

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Speaker 1: but they have not linked him to any larger cells

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Speaker 1: or larger plot as of now. To Dr Daniel Bober,

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Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist and to Bruce Alexander, terror expert, I want

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Speaker 1: to figure out how these guys how this guy in particular,

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Speaker 1: and we know that he has compatriots stayed under the

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Speaker 1: radar for this long and I want to go into

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Speaker 1: the mind of someone who was so brainwashed they would

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Speaker 1: commit mass murder. To Bruce Alexander, first question to you,

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Speaker 1: how did he stay under the radar for so long? Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: they're in like danger of individuals, likeness and the nature

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Speaker 1: of this particular attack. The he was able to stay

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Speaker 1: under the radar for so long. This is is that

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Speaker 1: he was able to effectively disguise, if you will, or

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Speaker 1: conceal or cover ordinary actions that maybe indicators pre incident,

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Speaker 1: indicators of the terrorists plot or a larger scale attack

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Speaker 1: under the guise of normal, everyday type of activities that

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Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing innocuous about renting a truck unless

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Speaker 1: you know they're intent. But day in and day out.

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Speaker 1: You know, the term that I use is is you know,

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Speaker 1: he was a gray man. In other words, uh, he

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Speaker 1: just simply sits in and the environment that he's in

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Speaker 1: provides him. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, waite a minute.

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Speaker 1: You said he's the gray man? Is that what you

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Speaker 1: just said? Yes, yes, it and sort of what I

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Speaker 1: mean by that is is that you know it's it

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Speaker 1: blends in and um in. The innocuous is the camouflage,

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Speaker 1: if you will, that allowed acts like this to be

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Speaker 1: to be effectively carried out, if you don't have any tells,

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Speaker 1: if you don't have any indicators, and you use your

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Speaker 1: ordinary life, if you will, if you're putting ourselves in

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Speaker 1: the guise of a terrorist here um to carry out

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a case of a surveillance or

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Speaker 1: you know, a dry run type of thing. If you

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Speaker 1: use that as a pretext or a cover, could you

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Speaker 1: could be quite effective? And therein lies the danger. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a lone individuals using daily life, if you will,

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Speaker 1: as as a means facilitated terror. Saying the way that

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Speaker 1: they blended in was by really assuming a role of

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Speaker 1: normalcy within American culture, and nobody seemed to notice. Dr

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Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, How does that work, Nancy? These

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Speaker 1: are very often people who are disillusioned, their marginalized. They're

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Speaker 1: living on the fringes of society, and very often they

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Speaker 1: have an act to grind. They don't really fit in,

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Speaker 1: and they're they're really right to be radicalized. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how much attention is someone going to draw if they're

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Speaker 1: going home on the internet and they're going to these

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Speaker 1: jihadi websites. Uh, they're being influenced. They're not necessarily being

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Speaker 1: supported by a Tirist organization, but they're being inspired and

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Speaker 1: they want to make a name for themselves. And you're

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Speaker 1: gonna see this more and more. You've seen it all

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Speaker 1: around the world, and with the proliferation of the Internet

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Speaker 1: and social media, it's going to keep happening again and again,

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Speaker 1: and there's very little way to prevent it. We are

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Speaker 1: talking about Safuo, how Bubilivic, How did he blend in?

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Speaker 1: How did he fly under the radar and then explode

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Speaker 1: in an act of such extreme violence in the city

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Speaker 1: of New York, a terrorist act that has taken more

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Speaker 1: lives than any other act since September eleven. Eight dead, repeat,

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Speaker 1: eight dead, many many more wounded, many more, uh possibly

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Speaker 1: more than a dozen trying to recover as our country

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Speaker 1: wrestles with yet another terror attack, and it leads to

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Speaker 1: the fear, Art Harris, of an attack at a mall

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Speaker 1: while we're out shopping for Christmas or you know what

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Speaker 1: do they call the day the deaford Thanksgiving Black Friday?

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Speaker 1: Just these people? How did it go down exactly? Aren't Harris?

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Speaker 1: There were innocent people out in the street. Tell me

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Speaker 1: the mechanics of how this guy Sefiulo b Bulovic sap

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Speaker 1: Off pull it off. First, he had been on the

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Speaker 1: radar of the FBI in a an unrelated investigation, but

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Speaker 1: did not, you know, sound an alarm that was necessary.

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Speaker 1: How can you be under the radar with the FBI

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Speaker 1: white in the crosshairs of the FBI suspicion, because if

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Speaker 1: the FBI is looking at you, that's suspicious. They had

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Speaker 1: his name. This happened before Nancy it. You know, if

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Speaker 1: somebody is a peripheral character, you have to prioritize. It's

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Speaker 1: like a triage in an emergency room. What suspect do

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Speaker 1: you go after first? Or you know, how dangerous do

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Speaker 1: they think they are? You know, you can't do everybody. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: he's name popped up. He'd been here since two thousand

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Speaker 1: and ten, landed at Kennedy Airport from tash Kent, Uzbekistan,

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Speaker 1: which has a very a very large uh Muslim community. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so this is something that the Soviets have problems

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Speaker 1: with as well. So he now is in this country,

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Speaker 1: stays where a cousin goes to Florida, lines up in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey working for Uber, and he goes and rinse

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Speaker 1: this truck. He's he's a green card, he's got a license.

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Speaker 1: There's no way to really, as Bruce put it, stop

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Speaker 1: him from conducting legal norm quote business of a resident alien.

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Speaker 1: So he gets the truck and he drives over. We

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Speaker 1: don't know if he scouted before or if he was

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Speaker 1: cruising around and looking for an opportunity. But he finds

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Speaker 1: a bike path and guns it. Drives for a mile

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Speaker 1: without before until he hits a school bus and a

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Speaker 1: couple of injury there. But he gets out and starts running,

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Speaker 1: and that's when the circumstances take over in the cop intercedes.

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Speaker 1: But as Bruce said, it's very difficult to find these folks.

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Speaker 1: It would be uh terrific if somebody was cruising these

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Speaker 1: these sites and could somehow pick up on language that

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Speaker 1: indicated that a certain person who was about to do

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Speaker 1: something radical. I don't know of any kind of software

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Speaker 1: or intelligence approach that is using that, yet maybe they do.

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Speaker 1: You're right, Art. What I was trying to say is

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Speaker 1: he was on many different ISIS related websites. This is

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Speaker 1: what we know. Twenty nine year old man drives a

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Speaker 1: rental truck down a path in Manhattan for quite some

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Speaker 1: time there near the World Trade Center, plowing into people.

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Speaker 1: Eight dead, fourteen others injured. That we know of this guy,

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Speaker 1: Sofilo Hobby Boulovic Sapov. He has been identified as living

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Speaker 1: in New Jersey, and it's not that isis is claiming credit.

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Speaker 1: Later a note was found in his truck claiming the

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Speaker 1: attack attack was for ISIS. Now he's lived in Patterson,

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Speaker 1: which is not far from New York. Um, this is

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Speaker 1: also very very disturbing to you, Bruce Alexander. We are

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Speaker 1: now learning that he was radicalized domestically, radicalized domestically, does

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Speaker 1: that mean he was radicalized here in the US? I

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Speaker 1: think ums, As the doctor pointed out before, it's been

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Speaker 1: a combination of things. Uh. Number one is clearly the

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Speaker 1: influence of the Internet into social media is a is

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Speaker 1: a primary source and a continuing source of radicalization. But

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Speaker 1: to your point, also part of that radicalization also can

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Speaker 1: be exposure to radical theology and or within a social

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Speaker 1: setting of individuals of like minded Then, if you will

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Speaker 1: or who sort of sit on the periphery at um

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Speaker 1: as was previously mentioned, who by virtue of exposure through

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Speaker 1: conversations perhaps start to legitimize what it is they're about

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Speaker 1: to do so. The radicalization it's a two step process again,

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Speaker 1: one exposure at the social media the internet level, and

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Speaker 1: then secondly fueled UH either directly or indirectly by like

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Speaker 1: minded exposure to like minded individuals. It's not one just

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Speaker 1: sort one particular source, and therein lies the danger and

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Speaker 1: trying to stop this because well, you know, if in theory,

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Speaker 1: if you eliminated the Internet, there would still be some

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Speaker 1: exposure somewhere else, and so we could never ice create

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Speaker 1: all of those variables. You know, he was cruising all

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Speaker 1: of these websites, isis related websites? To Joe Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: forensic expert, I want to look for a moment at

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Speaker 1: the victims and how they were killed. The terror and

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Speaker 1: attack victims include students, school staff, tourists that were celebrating

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Speaker 1: a reunion. In fact, five friends where they're celebrating their

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Speaker 1: high school reunion when they were killed. How did it happen?

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Speaker 1: From the point of view of a death scene investigator

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, this tower was in uh UH is

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Speaker 1: essentially meant to tow several thousand pounds of equipment this

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Speaker 1: sort of thing, and it can be easily accessed via

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Speaker 1: home depot. I've actually rented one of these things before.

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Speaker 1: This is a Ford F two fifty cabin. For people

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Speaker 1: who don't understand how big that is, it's it's one

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Speaker 1: of the larger trucks that you can have V eight engine.

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Speaker 1: It's like a VH sledge hand going into this tiny,

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Speaker 1: confined area. It's one of the most popular bike paths

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Speaker 1: and all of Manhattan. You've got people in a confined area,

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Speaker 1: they're riding bikes, they're jogging, and this guy is riding

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Speaker 1: down the middle of them, and there's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of places that the victims could duck out of the way.

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Speaker 1: So what's happening if he's not If people are not

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Speaker 1: being hit and pushed out of the way, you essentially

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Speaker 1: have rollover injuries. And the reason a lot of these

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Speaker 1: injuries are gonna be so nasty is the fact that

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Speaker 1: some of these people were on bikes, so the bikes

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Speaker 1: get caught beneath the wheels. You can look at some

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Speaker 1: of the images and see how twisted these things are.

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Speaker 1: And you've got people that if they weren't fatally injured killed,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be suffered terrible injuries, lifelong injuries as a result.

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Speaker 1: Of this this guy Again, this goes back to this

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Speaker 1: whole idea that we've talked about before. You've got the

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Speaker 1: general public completely caught unaware. They're sitting ducks in a

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Speaker 1: confined space where they have no place to go. My

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Speaker 1: thought relative to this as an investigator is that this

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Speaker 1: is a place that was specifically targeted, that he knew

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Speaker 1: that people would be very, very vulnerable, and he's driving

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Speaker 1: down the middle of this thing and he took out

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Speaker 1: as many people as he possibly could. And Nancy, this

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Speaker 1: is this this vehicle. It really enables an individual to

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Speaker 1: fly under the radar again using that term, to go

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Speaker 1: out and rent, rent one of these things and then

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Speaker 1: take it and facilitate this kind of and essentially you've

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Speaker 1: got this large, like I said, f two fifty sledge

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Speaker 1: hammer that has been weaponized and and that's that's the

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Speaker 1: real horror, isn't it. I Mean, you know, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about in these confined spaces and it really makes you

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Speaker 1: put your head on a swivel. You're looking around, You're thinking,

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Speaker 1: my god, you're not looking for guns here. Any any

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Speaker 1: one of these vehicles out here can be used. So

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Speaker 1: these people are gonna suffer horribly that have survived and

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Speaker 1: these these uh, the people that died died very, very painfully.

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Speaker 1: I just hate it. I hate it so much for them.

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Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober explained to me, you're our forensic psychiatrist,

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Speaker 1: and then I want to ask the same question of

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Speaker 1: Bruce Alexander, our terror expert. Dr Bober. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out how this the mind of a person that

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Speaker 1: could get radicalized domestically, that could completely change their course

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Speaker 1: of action by what they read on line and to

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Speaker 1: get so so extremely so radically turned around, because it's

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Speaker 1: coming out, as a matter of fact in the last

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Speaker 1: minutes that he was radicalized here in the US. Well

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Speaker 1: and n answ you, these are essentially weak individuals. These

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Speaker 1: are people that have very poor self concept, they have

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Speaker 1: a very poor sense of who they are, and they're

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Speaker 1: looking for some sort of meaning, something to fill the

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Speaker 1: void within themselves, to give themselves motivation in life. And

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Speaker 1: so it doesn't happen overnight, you know. They start reading

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Speaker 1: these uh, this jihadi literal chure on the Internet and

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Speaker 1: slowly but surely over time they are essentially converted and

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Speaker 1: radicalized into this belief system and want to please the

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Speaker 1: people that they are serving. Do you, Bruce Alexander terror

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Speaker 1: expert use career stands over thirty years in counter terrorism, intelligence,

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Speaker 1: security and homeland security. How does it happen? How do

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Speaker 1: you pull off the facade of normalcy in Patterson, New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: only to be planning an ISIS terrorist attack. I think

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Speaker 1: it speaks to conviction, convictioning the belief of the cause

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Speaker 1: in which the individual is willing to sacrifice himself for um.

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Speaker 1: In in such a case, it gives them a certain resolve.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know, Dr Bober could certainly talk

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Speaker 1: to you know the mental characteristics of that transformation that

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Speaker 1: goes to that. But it's it's really sort of a

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Speaker 1: mission focus, um. And we see it in high skilled uh,

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Speaker 1: good guys on our side, if you will, who have

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Speaker 1: an intense mission focus and understand it's something thankfully on

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Speaker 1: our side anyway larger than themselves. But the unfortunately the

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Speaker 1: reverse side is is in this particular case, you have

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Speaker 1: a strain of an extremist ideology that says, um, my

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Speaker 1: cause is so righteous and great that giving my life

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Speaker 1: in this is worth every bit of what I'm doing it.

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Speaker 1: So what that does is translate to a real sort

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Speaker 1: of intense mission focus, both in the pre operational phase

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Speaker 1: and by the way I happen to believe to that

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Speaker 1: this particular vehicle was ideally suited for that particular target,

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Speaker 1: if you will, that pathway, which also suggests to me

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Speaker 1: that there was probably probably conducted some surveillance on that

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Speaker 1: and figured out what's the best weapon to do this.

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Speaker 1: But it goes back to um uh an intense sort

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Speaker 1: of mission focus. That's beliefs says, my cause is so

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Speaker 1: great that um the operational indicators or factors that might

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Speaker 1: lead to my discovery will be controlled by my beliefs

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Speaker 1: and the cause, if you will, be you know, my

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Speaker 1: ability the risk of detection. So that's typically where you

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Speaker 1: see that at uh, that that that beliefs and cause

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Speaker 1: leads to a manifestation of that belief by the operation itself.

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Speaker 1: According to video from the scene, the perp jumps out

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Speaker 1: of the wrecked vehicle brandishing handguns, shouting Allahu Akbar, which

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Speaker 1: means an Arabic God is great. I want to pause

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Speaker 1: do for business owners every single day, and thank you

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Speaker 1: for being our partner today, I'm totally freaking out. Those

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Speaker 1: are the words, uh super mom, Sherry Peppini's terrified husband

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Speaker 1: on the nine one one call. As it has just

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Speaker 1: been revealed the mother of two, Sherry Peppini had been

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Speaker 1: texting another man just before she was kidnapped. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of innuendos swirling around Sherry Peppini that

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Speaker 1: she was not really kidnapped. We don't know the truth

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Speaker 1: of that, and for right now, the police are standing

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Speaker 1: by her. So I suggest we do the same, take

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Speaker 1: a leap of faith on til we know better. I

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Speaker 1: mean to see grace. This is crime stories. The Sherry

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Speaker 1: Peppini case developing very quickly. Let's start with the sound

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Speaker 1: of her husband who comes home to find she's gone

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Speaker 1: and the children are gone as well. Take a listen.

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Speaker 1: What is yours online? So how can I help you? Yeah? Um,

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Speaker 1: so I just got home from work and uh, my

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Speaker 1: wife wasn't there, which is unusual, and my kids should

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Speaker 1: have been there by now from like daycare. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe she went on a walk. Um,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't find her, so I called the daycare to

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Speaker 1: see what time she picked up the kids. The kids

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Speaker 1: were never picked up, so I got freaked out. So

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Speaker 1: I hit like to find my iPhone apping and it

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Speaker 1: said that her. It showed her phone like at our

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Speaker 1: end of our driver. We don't have a really good service. Okay,

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Speaker 1: not at the end of our driver, at the end

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Speaker 1: of our street, but just drove down there and I

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Speaker 1: saw her phone with her headphones because she started running again.

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Speaker 1: And it's tell on her phone and it's got like

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Speaker 1: hair ripped out of it, like in the headphones. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like totally freaking out. They can write somebod what's

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Speaker 1: her Okay? What's your address? Okay? What's your last name?

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Speaker 1: Propini P A P I and I am your first

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Speaker 1: name Keith K E I T H Yeah. Okay, did

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Speaker 1: you go pick up your children? You know I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: call my mom and have her to do it. Okay.

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Speaker 1: What's your wife's name? I'm gonna knock on every door. Rry.

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Speaker 1: That's h R R I. I'm saying last name? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Should I female? Yeah? What's our data? Birth? Uh? It

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Speaker 1: is June eleven two with me is Aunt Harris, Emmy

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Speaker 1: Award winning investigative reporter. Dr Chloe Carmichael. Psychologists joining us

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Speaker 1: and of course, Alan, do you joining me from l A.

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Speaker 1: Let's go straight to Aunt Harris. He seems very very calm,

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Speaker 1: but I learned to lot just from the very beginning

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Speaker 1: of his nine one one call. She had just started

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Speaker 1: running quote again and he has found her iPhone with

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Speaker 1: a big clump of hair in it near their driveway.

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00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: I thought it was on a jogging path. That's what

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Speaker 1: we had learned from before. Everybody just joining us. The

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Speaker 1: thirty five year old so called super Mom Sherry Peppini,

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Speaker 1: was kidnapped and beaten last year. Police say male DNA

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00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: was also found on her clothes. That's a new development.

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Speaker 1: But after nearly a month, it was thanks Giving time

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Speaker 1: she was discovered wandering, beaten and bloodied and a town

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Speaker 1: called Yolo. As of right now, police still don't know

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Speaker 1: who abducted her. She said it was to Hispanic females.

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Speaker 1: They kept their faces covered. Now, this disturbing audio has

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Speaker 1: been released of her husband, Keith, calling when he realized

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Speaker 1: she had been kidnapped, saying, I'm like totally freaking out

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Speaker 1: thinking somebody grabbed her. This was just released after news

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Speaker 1: that Sherry was texting another man just before her kidnapping.

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Speaker 1: Now art it's my understanding. Police try that guy Dan

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Speaker 1: in Detroit and Michigan just a week after she disappeared,

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Speaker 1: but he was never arrested. For all I know, it

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Speaker 1: was an old college friend. I don't know who it was.

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Speaker 1: They have not made any charges or any arrests of him, Nancy.

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00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: And so we are left with this very bizarre mystery

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00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: of a truck driver going north on in State five

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Speaker 1: seeing her just before Thanksgiving a year ago. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: she is in restraints and uh and bruised and beaten up,

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Speaker 1: and he, uh, you know, he takes her into his

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Speaker 1: his truck and takes her to the hospital where evidence

427
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: is collected, more photographs taken, swabs for DNA, and her

428
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: hair was cut shoulder length, and she had a brand

429
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: on her right shoulder. So this is something that is

430
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: still being investigated. And uh, you know, of course she

431
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: says someone very specific to women in fact, kidnapped her.

432
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: Sherry mcpeeney had been out, apparently running near her home.

433
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: She was found about a month later jumping out in

434
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: front of cars. Emaciated. She was starved, had lost about

435
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: twenty pounds, beaten branded, bruised, running well dun'ped by the

436
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: roadside where she was attempting to run out in front

437
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: of traffic, trying to get someone to help her. Dr

438
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: Chloe if this is a giant russ to Dr Chloe Carmichael,

439
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to believe she starved herself. No, Nancy,

440
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: of course, that would be just about impossible. The idea

441
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: that she would starve herself down to eight seven pounds

442
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: and brand herself. Um, I mean, that's just the most

443
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: honestly implausible thing I think I've ever heard. Take a

444
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: listen to more of the just released nine one. One

445
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: calls her vehicle there? Does she not have a vehicle?

446
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: She has a vehicles at the house. Okay, the vehicle

447
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: is at the house. Okay, I'm right now driving. And

448
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: I put the picture of her phone on the ground

449
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: before it picked it up. Okay. How tall is five

450
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: three five four? How much Wi hi pound? Hi? Color? Uh?

451
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: Like a bluish blue? Okay, hair color blond? Do you

452
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: know what she was wearing there? I'm assuming she went running. Okay,

453
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: there's not an outfit she always wears or anything like that.

454
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: She run with a dog or by herself, by herself? Okay?

455
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: At what time where the kids started running again, and

456
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: we live in a when's the last time? When's the

457
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: last time you heard from her? She sent me a

458
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: tech tsking me if I was coming home from lunch

459
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: at what time A wants to mess um? Uh do

460
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: anyone's like she said to me, had ten forty seven

461
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: after me if I was coming home from lunch from work,

462
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: and I said, sorry, long day And that was the

463
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 1: last never spoked on the phone. R in the uricony

464
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: and what time of the kids supposed to be picked up?

465
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: Way before five thirties. He usually goes to like four

466
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: forty five, O S are you headed back to the house?

467
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: Or where are you at right now? I'm at the

468
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: end of the driver you were And that's the well

469
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: they were going failed sunrise where they meet, because that's

470
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: right where I found her phone on the ground telling

471
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: me that something happened to her is the way I'm

472
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: looking at it. There's like then there was hair like

473
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: in the headphones, like they got ripped off like the

474
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: great and I understand, I am I'll tell us pause

475
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: just a moment. I want to go back to Art Harris.

476
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: What do you make of the husband's demeanor? And I'm

477
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: hearing something that I had noticed at the beginning, but

478
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: now it's been confirmed. It's not like Peppini when she

479
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: was kidnapped, left her children alone in the car at

480
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: the Walmart parking lot or abandoned somewhere. They were safe

481
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: and sound in daycare, so she didn't have to be

482
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: worried that any harm would befall them. We know that.

483
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: I still don't know about the man she was texting.

484
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: But what do you make of the husband's demeanor? Art Well, Nancy,

485
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: he seems very composed, and he's he's he's trying. He

486
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: seems quietly panicked, but he's looking for information now through

487
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: his I guess his his his phone to see when

488
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: she texted him. But he has actually of course, he's

489
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: the first person that police look at, and he's actually

490
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: passed a polygraph, So um, he apparently is off the

491
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: table as a suspect at this point. Yeah, I never

492
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: thought he was a suspect. I'm just wondering how he

493
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: considered her behavior, what he thought of her missing. I

494
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: think she's sound shocked to me. Sounds like he's trying

495
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: to figure this out in his head, like you know

496
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: what's going on. I mean, he's not he hasn't faced

497
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: the actual gravity of what has happened. Can't imagine that

498
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: that his wife would be kidnapped or a victim? I mean,

499
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: who who does process that that quickly? Unless you knew

500
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: what happened? You know, Alan do I would characterize his

501
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: demeanor as being very calm, abnormally calm. But when you

502
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: think about it, Alan, it's I could be also a

503
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: mixture of trying to figure out where could she be.

504
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: I can't believe she's really been kidnapped. There's got to

505
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: be another answer to this. As opposed to when you

506
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: come in you find somebody dead and you go hysterical,

507
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: this is a whole different thing. Well, he didn't necessarily

508
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: know anything was wrong. And by the way, the phone

509
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: was down the end of his street, Uh, not near

510
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: his driveway if you listen closely to the call, So

511
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: it was on that jogging path. But yeah, he sounds

512
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: like a very concerned husband. And as Art says, he

513
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: passed the polygraph. But Joe Joseph Scott Morrigan always says

514
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: something that I believe, and that is that you can't

515
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: necessarily judge somebody's guilt, innocence involvement by their demeanor at

516
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: a certain time that that can be mist leading, but

517
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: he sounded he sounded very calm. To Dr Chloe Carmichael,

518
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: what do you think of Sherry Peppini's description of the

519
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: female at ackers. Well, it's it's certainly unusual. Um. I

520
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: I agree, it's it's it's pretty mystifying. Um it's to

521
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: two attackers that were women. Um, it's it's usually not

522
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: something that we see for women to go out and

523
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: hold another woman or a man captive and and to

524
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 1: brutalize them this way. It's so unusual that I would really,

525
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: I almost think that there would be a man behind

526
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: it on some level. And that's nothing, um, you know,

527
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: against men specifically, But it's just about the testosterone and

528
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: the aggression and the patterns of brutality that we see

529
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: that's just not something that's normally, um, you know, created

530
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: by women. So I certainly do find it, um curious

531
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: and perhaps suggestive that there's a man behind it on

532
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: some level. Um you know, Alan, I was taking a look.

533
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: I had thought that her cell phone was off of

534
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: a jogging truck that I thought he could said on

535
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: the normal hall that was just released. It was at

536
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: the foot of the driveway. But you're right. We were right.

537
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: It was about a mile away at the intersection of

538
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: Sunrise and Old Oregon Highway. Quote neatly placed on the

539
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: ground with the headphones rapped tidally wrapped around it. Again,

540
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: some people may say she placed it there to be found,

541
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: but very often when you jog and you carry your

542
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: iPhone with you, if you're wearing headphones or an earpiece,

543
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: you wrap it around the phone so it won't be

544
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: dangling as you jog. So I also don't find that

545
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: to be disturbing or indicative in any way that she

546
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: planned this. Yeah, I mean, Alan, let's get real. There

547
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: was no sex attack, there was no robbery, there was

548
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: no ransom. Note there's no real motive, no clear motive

549
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: is for the kidnapping. The fact that she claims women

550
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: kidnapped her is highly improbable statistically. But other than those

551
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: two things, we have no reason to disbelieve her. Why

552
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: is everybody jumping on this, I mean and claiming she's lying.

553
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: I think part of it is a California thing. Out

554
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: Here in California, we've had a number of disappearances of

555
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: young women, and they've involved female kidnappers, and also the

556
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: area where she lives is known for some mysterious kidnappings.

557
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: It's sort of like the Bermuda Triangle of missing women,

558
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: and I think that creates a little bit of the

559
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: Emerald Triangle. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

560
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of female kidnappings that were never

561
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: solved in that so called Emerald triangle. You and I've

562
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: talked about it many times. Alan, Hey, uh Art Harris,

563
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: do we know whatever happened to all that money that

564
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: was raised for um the Bring Sherry Homes Safe appeal?

565
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: It raised almost fifty dollars? What happened to that money? Nancy? Uh?

566
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: A pull accounting has not been produced, and I know

567
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 1: of assume it went to the husband to help, but uh,

568
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: we haven't seen any accounts of that. We also know

569
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: she was battered, bruised, er hair had been chopped off

570
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: to her shoulder. She once had it all the way

571
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: down her back. She said she had not been sexually assaulted.

572
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: She was branded with a threatening message that has never

573
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: been released. Why is that art that the brand has

574
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: never been released? And who brands somebody? It sounds like

575
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: it's out of a novel written by a fifth grader

576
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: often Nancy. That is a form of of domination and

577
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: bondage or some sort of dev deviance, but also a

578
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: gang type thing. I mean, you're somebody's property if you

579
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: brand them, like like a piece of like a cat,

580
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: a cow, a cattle. Uh, that gets branded if he

581
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: wanders off somebody's range and onto somebody else's property. You

582
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: know who that who that that cow belongs to. So

583
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: in this case, it sounds very very demeaning uh and

584
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: uh and and humiliating. But she was. She was branded

585
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: in some possible ritual or But I'm sure the police

586
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: have some sort of They're holding that back because obviously

587
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: it's a piece of evidence and they can use it

588
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: to match with the suspect possibly if they ever arresting you.

589
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. She was branded and starved.

590
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: You know, guys, I want to pause and thank our

591
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592
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593
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594
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599
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600
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601
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602
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603
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604
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605
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607
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608
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609
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616
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624
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: I want you to hear this dispatch from CHIP California

625
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: Highway Patrol inviting heavily better nothing just south of kolow

626
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: On North down on the freeway north so Dr Chloe

627
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: Carmichael with me along with Art Harris Chloe. She's actually bound.

628
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: She is tied up or or secured with chains and

629
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: dumped out on the street, really jumping in front of

630
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: oncoming traffic to get rescued. It's so are why they

631
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: would take her in the first place, why they would

632
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: brutalize her, and why they would brand her, and then

633
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: why it is that they would dump her out on

634
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: the side of the road. I think that's partly what's

635
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: so disturbing to the public about this is because it

636
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: feels like a violence and a level of depravity that

637
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: we really can't even put into any kind of a framework,

638
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: which makes it just seem all the more haunting and

639
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: deeply disturbing, unlike what she just said, Art Harris, that

640
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: we can't put it into a framework. I mean, I've tried,

641
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: I don't even know how many cases, and you've covered

642
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: the same amount of cases. When we can't find a

643
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: clear motive, somehow it just doesn't fit. And I think

644
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: that's what's troubling people with this case. I think it, right, Nancy,

645
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: in this case, you would think that, Okay, somebody is

646
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: held and bound and gosh it, it must be a

647
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: kidnapped for ransom. But nothing like that was ever h raise,

648
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: no calls for money were ever made. So this sounds

649
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 1: like just pure as pure pure depravity. Uh. And somehow, uh,

650
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: some kind of anger resentment, uh, you know, by by

651
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: whatever party took her, or you know the other thing is.

652
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: And you never want to put a victim on trial. Uh.

653
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: But I'm sure police have. They have looked, and they

654
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: have gosh lots of search warrants, have not discovered or

655
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: announced any sort of secret life that you would find

656
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: with with sometimes with victims who who make up excuses,

657
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: as we've seen before, sometimes with disturbed victims. Ever since

658
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: her rescue, Sherry Peppini has been living as a recluse.

659
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: Is that right? Art, We've heard nothing about her really

660
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: state of mind of her uh situation. So this is

661
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: someone who's privacy is is being protected and who does

662
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: not want any attention. She's got to be incredibly traumatized.

663
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: Uh and uh you know somehow emerging to try to

664
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: find her her psyche, her life and her her her

665
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: piece as a mother, uh, in a family. And we

666
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: assume that she's being protected by people who love her.

667
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: We know that she is living as a recluse. You know,

668
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 1: she was found with the chain around her waist, clamps

669
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: around her wrists, her face beaten and bruised, weighing just

670
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: eighties seven pounds. That seems very difficult to have faked

671
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: all that to me, but without a motive her her

672
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: story is still under fire by many living as they

673
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: recluse with her husband and children. Now, I was recently

674
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: asked what do you make of the way she looks

675
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: now and I responded, well, she looks like every woman

676
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: looks when they first wake up, before they've had hair

677
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: and makeup. It bothers me when people attack women that

678
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: are not made up, so to speak. Dr Chloe. I mean,

679
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: it's like everyone expects her to look like she did

680
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: in her way sting photos after they were circulated. Well

681
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: it is. It's it's really shocking that people would think

682
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: that at this time, after what she's been through, that

683
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: she would be thinking on any level about how to

684
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: attract attention to herself or how to polish herself for

685
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: the way that she would appear to others. What she

686
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: really is, you know, I hope doing right now is

687
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: trying to re establish a relationship with her own body,

688
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: because her body was essentially taken away from her for

689
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: all of this time. She wasn't the possessor of her

690
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: own self, and so right now I think her attention

691
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 1: is probably just on trying to understand her own relationship

692
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: with her own body, rather than sending out signals for

693
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: others you know are here or There has been a

694
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: real spite of fake kidnappings recently. There was the one

695
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: where the mom um facebook herself a video with a

696
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: gag and her mouth and I guess she kidnapped her

697
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: own self in the basement. Um. There have been a

698
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: real spate of them. Why why would someone even bother

699
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: to do that? Are you've been covering these cases, Nancy,

700
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: I think you guilt and shame play a big role,

701
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,919
Speaker 1: especially if somebody has not saying that she did taken

702
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: a walk on the wild side. Uh, and UH is

703
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: trying to cover up, you know, your escapade. You know,

704
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: you come up with maybe some elazar elaborate ruses, as

705
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: we've seen people make against folks who they say kidnapped

706
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: or tortured them. Uh, and they turn out to be

707
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: not true at all. So we don't know if that's

708
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: the case in her case. It seems so extreme. As

709
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: you said, the injuries she suffered, the branding, Um, how

710
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: do you brand yourself? I think that that really begs credulity.

711
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: But you're right there. There are the things that people

712
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: will do to cover up what they have really done

713
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: does boggle them. Guilt can play quite a role in

714
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: in the psyche. As the doctor, I'm sure I can

715
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: tell us well. Interesting according to the l A. Times,

716
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: they are saying that the d NA found was an

717
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: unknown man's. Now. When I believed at the beginning it

718
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: was just on some of her clothing, after all she

719
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: had been through, I didn't find that disturbing. But according

720
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 1: to the l A. Times, the d N a of

721
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: two other people were found on Peppini when she was

722
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: discovered partially clothed and shackle there on Interstate five on

723
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Thanksgiving morning. And this says, if you read it carefully,

724
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: the samples belonged to a woman and a man, and

725
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 1: they were collected off Peppini's body and clothing respectively, body

726
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: and clothing respectively. Now, if you read this an it's

727
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: literally that means the woman's DNA was from her body

728
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: and the man's DNA was from her clothing. Is the

729
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: way that I would read it. What do you make

730
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: of it, aren't Harris? That suggests some sort of uh

731
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: sexual perhaps you know either well molestation or events took place,

732
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,280
Speaker 1: perhaps not not not of her choosing, but that certainly

733
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: also contradicts her memory of two women kidnapping her. This

734
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: is the first we have seen or her of a

735
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: man's involvement, at least uh the way I read it,

736
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 1: Allen Duke. There has just been another development in the case,

737
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: explained They finally have released FBI approved sketches of these

738
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: two women that Peppini described. It took him a year

739
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: to do it because of her emotional condition, and they

740
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: took their time. It shows one woman described as an

741
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: Hispanic female between twenty and thirty, about five ft five,

742
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: medium bill core, curly dark brown hair, thin eyebrowsed, spierced ears.

743
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: The second woman described Hispanic female between forty and fifty,

744
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: about five seven, large build, long, straight black hair with

745
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: some gray in it, thick eyebrows, and pierced ears. And

746
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: they were reportedly driving a dark colored SUV. And that

747
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: is going to be on our website along with this show.

748
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: That's right at crime online dot com. And there's a

749
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollar reward. The police are asking for the

750
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: public's help, Nancy, as as they always do. Okay, guys,

751
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: we're on it. The latest in the Sherry Peppini case.

752
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,