1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts bring you the ultimate Summer of Love Tree. 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: This is famously Available. Welcome back to Famously Available as 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: your host Ben Higgins, and if you missed part one 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: of this episode, be sure to go back and listen. 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: I've en listened to the help of the incredible psychologist, 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: doctor Hillary gold Scher to really go in deep with Deanna. 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Therapy is amazing and beneficial in so many ways, but 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: I think pretty crucial when we are on the path 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: of finding love and learning to love ourselves. I'm excited 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: to hear more from this conversation, so let's dive back in. 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: I continue to talk about my marriage because it's the 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 2: freshest on my mind and it was my longest relationship 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: that I've ever been in, and there were lots of 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: things right. We were on the cycle, that toxic cycle, 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: and we just towards the end, we just couldn't get off. 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: We just could not hop off the cycle. There was 17 00:00:54,160 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: no and there I personally, I could not get to 18 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: a place anymore of being able to change the way 19 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: I said something, or to be soft anymore, to be 20 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: soft anymore. It felt exhausting to me. I am an 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 2: overthinker in general. I can overthink. Overthinking, I can take 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: one thought internet eight way sideways in a matter of seconds. 23 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: And to sit in places where I didn't feel seen 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: or heard created a boiling point for me. It was 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 2: not a very healthy space for me to sit in. 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 2: If my partner needed time to process or time to 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: cool down, that time that they needed was a boiling 28 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: point for me because I would sit in a moment 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 2: of just overthinking and explosive, explosive, there was no soft 30 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: left to me. 31 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: My go to. 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: Place to react is to be hard, is to be strong, 33 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: because vulnerability is very scary for me, and rightfully so, 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: in a lot of places, my vulnerability has been used 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: against me and by people that I have loved very deeply. 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: So vulnerability is not very easy for me. And so 37 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 2: instead of coming from a place and being like hey, 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: I really love you, I don't want to fight over this, 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: how can I be better at this situation? To me, 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 2: and I cannot even lie in this moment, it sounds 41 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 2: really awful for anyone listening to me. That feels weak, 42 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 2: like I'm being a little bitch about it, you. 43 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: Know, And I hate that. I hate that. 44 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: But it's so interesting because with my children, I can 45 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: do that with my children. Hi, I hear that you're 46 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 2: upset right now. I feel that you're really upset. Please 47 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: tell me what's coming up for you. And I have 48 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 2: that with the utmost care and rational thinking, and I 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: mean it. I mean it. But I have a real 50 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: struggle with doing that for a grown man. 51 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm sure there's an intersection of factors. One, 52 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 4: as I alluded to earlier, a trauma response. If you've 53 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:15,839 Speaker 4: had wounds around people that you trusted, hurting you, abandoning you, 54 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 4: taking advantage of you vulnerability, it becomes a fight or 55 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 4: flight moment. And so one of the ways it sounds 56 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 4: like that your body has habituated to that fight or 57 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 4: flight is getting hard, you know, So it's protective mode, 58 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 4: and it's when you think about it, it's you might 59 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 4: not like that I say this, but it's sweet that 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 4: it's sad, you know, because underneath that is a wounded 61 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 4: kid who doesn't want to be hurt again, right, And 62 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 4: having a lot of empathy and compassion for that person 63 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 4: feels so critical, you know, for that little person that 64 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 4: you know, trusted and got heard. And I think if 65 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 4: we can septualize it that way, That's why it's easy 66 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 4: to do that for your kiddos, you know, because it's 67 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 4: so easy to see them that way, and it's so 68 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 4: hard to see yourself that way. But the more you're 69 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 4: able to integrate that that's a. 70 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: Part of you. Obviously it's not all of you. Look 71 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 3: at how you move through the world. You know that 72 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: that's not the case. 73 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 4: But it's a part of you, and that when you 74 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 4: feel vulnerable and sad, that's as you know, valid as 75 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 4: any of the other feelings that you have. And that 76 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 4: trauma response, I imagine has led you astray in some moments, 77 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 4: which is that you show up in a way you 78 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 4: don't feel good about, you know. And so it's interesting 79 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 4: I alluded to it before, but that distinction between aggression 80 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 4: and advocacy is so important, and that younger part of 81 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 4: you might think that aggression is the way to go, 82 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 4: that's where you get all your power. 83 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: Two females talking to each other. I have a love 84 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 2: hate relationship with it, and I'm hoping that anyone who 85 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 2: is listening to us today relates to this. Okay, I'm 86 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 2: a woman and I want to advocate for myself and 87 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: what I believe in. But then I'm a fucking bitch 88 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: because I did right, or or I'm a door mat. 89 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 2: Yeah right, I'm a door mat. I let it sweep 90 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: under the rug because I don't want to be viewed 91 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: as a bitch because I stood up for what I 92 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: believed in and then you know who suffers is me? 93 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 2: So what is the fine line to teeter there? And 94 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: I'm not just asking for myself. I feel like a 95 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: really great relationship with a lot of the listeners and 96 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: the women that follow me on social media, and they 97 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 2: share these same things with me, because the truth is 98 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: is like I feel those things myself. What is the 99 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: fine line to teeter there? Because right, I'm not trying 100 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 2: to be a bitch, but because I'm a woman and 101 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: I speak up for myself, well then i'm too much. 102 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: So what is the fine line there? 103 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: Yeah? 104 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 4: I mean, of course there isn't like a perfect calculation, 105 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 4: and what I'm about to say might feel like a 106 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 4: cop up, but hang with me. I think mostly the 107 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 4: fine line is going to be felt internally because I 108 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 4: think we know when we're in advocacy mode, when we're grounded, 109 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 4: when we're clear in our communication, and when we're standing 110 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 4: up for what we know is right, and when we've 111 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 4: sort of moved in to territory where we're being more 112 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 4: defensive and looking to wound someone else right, I think 113 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 4: we often know where it's crossed over. So I would 114 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 4: say looking internally for like that uncomfortable feeling of like, ooh, 115 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 4: I'm not feeling so good about this is one piece 116 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 4: to keep in mind. The other sort of guiding tenants 117 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 4: that I like to think of is being able to 118 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 4: state what you want, what your expectation is, but doing 119 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 4: it in a digestible way. 120 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 3: What does that mean. It means like keeping. 121 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 4: A neutral tone, using clear words, and trying to think 122 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 4: about speaking to someone with respect even if we wildly 123 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 4: disagree or even if they're in the middle of hurting us. 124 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 4: Because to me, from a clinical and personal standpoint, there's 125 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 4: nothing more empowering than staying in calm and groundedness and 126 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 4: integrity even when you're upset and so being able to say, 127 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 4: I won't let you speak to me that way. 128 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: It's not happening. Now. 129 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 4: You can either adjust and reset and try again, or 130 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 4: I'm leaving to me. That's advocacy. I mean, those are 131 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 4: strong words and creating a boundary for like I'm not 132 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 4: letting anyone. I am not talking about letting someone disrespect 133 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 4: you or treat you in a way that is outside 134 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 4: of your value, absolutely not. But I am talking about 135 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 4: like delivering that message in a calm, clear way to 136 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 4: the extent possible whenever possible. And it's it's ultimately for us, really, 137 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 4: I mean sure, it's sort of the quote right thing 138 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 4: to do to the person in front of us. I mean, 139 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 4: they may be awful, but we feel more grounded when 140 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 4: we stay in that centered place inside of us, and 141 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 4: then it carries through to other aspects of our life 142 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 4: because when we become disregulated into the like aggressive aggression part, 143 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 4: we just don't feel like ourselves. We feel disassembled and disempowered. 144 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 4: And I feel like we I mean men and women 145 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 4: alike often mistake aggression for power when it actually ends 146 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 4: up feeling disempowering. We feel shame and eventually paralysis. But 147 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 4: when we stay in advocacy. 148 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: Probably that is what I like to call it, much. 149 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: More playing spoken right, like an out of body experience 150 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: to that point of compressed regulation. 151 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 4: Yes, and I want to say this because those listening 152 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 4: and this is an obvious next question, which is like okay, great, 153 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 4: that sounds super aspirational, But what about when I don't, 154 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 4: Because we're all not going to At times, we're all 155 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 4: going to get triggered, we're all going to have a 156 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 4: trauma response. Someone's going to be really, really awful one 157 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 4: too many times, and we show up in a way 158 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 4: that we don't feel good about. And I love to 159 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 4: always say that we can always go back, right, We 160 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 4: can always go back, even if the person has heard us, 161 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 4: even if we're deciding we're not wanting to be with 162 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 4: that person anymore, we can still say for our sake 163 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 4: less than for their some version of like what I 164 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 4: was saying earlier, because I love this phrasing, you know, 165 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 4: like my message was on point, like not changing anything 166 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 4: about what I was trying to convey to you, but 167 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 4: I don't like the way said it, and you know, 168 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 4: I want to take responsibility for that. 169 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm sorry for it. 170 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 4: I was out of integrity, I was like out of 171 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 4: how I wanted to show up. 172 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: And that's about us. 173 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 4: And the more we do that, the more we kind 174 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 4: of cobble together a sense of self that is very 175 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 4: grounding and that we can return to again and again 176 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 4: as like a safe haven internally, we don't feel as 177 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 4: safe when we ourselves are so dysregulated or aggressive. It 178 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 4: just doesn't feel as safe to be inside our skin. 179 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 4: So I like to like advocate for this as a 180 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 4: self advocacy proposition. It's not for the other, and so 181 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 4: that's why the conceptualization doesn't change in terms of how 182 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 4: bad the other is. 183 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 3: It's really for us. 184 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, I love everything that you said, but I 185 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 2: am also going to know that it's way easier said 186 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 2: than done. 187 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 3: Exactly why just say what I said, right? 188 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 5: And sometimes I get just exhausted with myself because I 189 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 5: feel like I do so much work on me and 190 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 5: I do so much work on my healing because I 191 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 5: really want to be healthy and well for myself, for 192 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,359 Speaker 5: my children, for hopefully another relationship. 193 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 2: That I get exhausted with the amount of work I 194 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: do on myself. And then you know what else, I 195 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 2: say this all the time. I get exhausted with being 196 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: the only person doing the work at every turn, doing 197 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: all of the therapy, doing all of the things because 198 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: I want to be better. It becomes exhausting to have 199 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 2: to deal with people who are not also putting in 200 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: the time and effort. But I wanted to. I know, 201 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: we have a few minutes left, and I'm just so 202 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: grateful that you did this. I was joking with Heather, 203 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: our producer, because she was like, we only have this 204 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: amount of time, and I was like, we all know 205 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: I can talk to a wall, I could do this, 206 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 2: so we will have to have you back because I 207 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: love stuff like this and I find them so healing 208 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: and so helpful. But it's obviously a dating podcast, and 209 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: that's the place where I am in my life, and 210 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't date for some time. I've been 211 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 2: divorced for and not with my ex husband for some time, 212 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 2: and I really spent some space with myself trying to heal. 213 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: I knew that I was as a whole. Therefore I 214 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: could not possibly take on anyone else. And I do 215 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: like to do that. I like to give my full 216 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 2: self to any relationship. And I don't just mean with 217 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: the opposite sex. I mean in friendships or with my 218 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: family or anybody else. And so I knew that there 219 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: was a lot of work to be done. And now 220 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: that I am moving into that space of wanting to 221 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 2: find someone, I'm dealing with two things here. Hey, there's 222 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 2: the frustration with my God, I'm like, Okay, when is 223 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: it going to happen for me? 224 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: Lord? 225 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 2: And I'm not alone. I imagine many women say that, 226 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: But I am asking you and for everyone else listening, 227 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: who's there with me? How do we do this the 228 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: dating piece and not make the same mistake twice? I 229 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: don't ever want to relive what I have gone through again. 230 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: I don't want to make the same mistake twice, and 231 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: I don't think I will because I learn and I grow. 232 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: But like, what can I do moving into a dating space? 233 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: And maybe I preface that way with I'm not looking 234 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: to be someone's side piece. I'm not looking to casually 235 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 2: date for fun. I'm not looking for just a sexual 236 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: based relationship. I'm looking for someone to share life with, 237 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 2: to do life with. I am looking for a partner. 238 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: That's what I really want, And so I'm hoping maybe 239 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: you could share with me, how do I not make 240 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: the same mistakes twice? How can I do this and 241 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: find a really wonderful, valuable relationship next? 242 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 4: I love this question so again to think about it. 243 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 4: Macro and micro. That advocacy piece that we were just 244 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 4: talking about applies here on the macro basis don't be 245 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 4: afraid to say what it is you're looking for and 246 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 4: what it is you want when you're on dates, when 247 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 4: you're vetting, when you're getting to know someone. I mean, 248 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 4: obviously we're not going to open with like, HI want 249 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 4: to get married and I want this kind of relationship, 250 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 4: but quickly, I mean, Gabe two three starting to talk 251 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 4: about I'm in a phase. I'm in a season of 252 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 4: my life where I just know myself. I know who 253 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 4: I am, I know what I want, and like, I 254 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 4: want a relationship that has death. I want a relationship 255 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 4: that has that is with someone that's interested in emotional 256 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 4: intimacy and like, you know, working through stuff, like cares 257 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 4: about what our communication looks like, like not afraid to 258 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 4: say it's gonna say it out loud that like doesn't 259 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 4: resonate cool, like let's let's finish our coffee, and like 260 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 4: wish each other well. 261 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 2: Right. 262 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 4: There's something that is both grounding about that kind of advocacy, 263 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 4: and most men report that there's something very attractive about 264 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 4: a woman being able to speak her truth that way 265 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 4: with confidence and sounds cliche, but if someone hears you 266 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 4: speak a version of this and is scared off or 267 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 4: turned off. I mean, obviously that wouldn't. 268 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: Be your person. 269 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 4: You really want someone who hears this from you and 270 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 4: is intrigued and interested and wants to and wants to 271 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 4: hear and know. More So, being an advocate for what 272 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 4: you want and feeling confident like you have a right 273 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 4: to do so is really important. I think it's important 274 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 4: to believe people when they say things. So if someone 275 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 4: seems confused when you talk about what I just was 276 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 4: alluding to, or directly says like, yeah, you know, I've 277 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 4: never been in therapy, or like I had never really 278 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 4: thought about that, or that's not exactly my kind of thing, 279 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 4: but maybe believe what they say. If that doesn't resonate, 280 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 4: if they reflect on the fact that that isn't kind 281 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 4: of where they've been in the past or what their 282 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 4: particular focus is on, believe them. We have a responsibility, 283 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 4: given that word like managing our love life with intention, 284 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 4: to pay attention to those things, and that can mean 285 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 4: walking away from potential. But if you're looking for something 286 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 4: to be different, you have to do something differently, and 287 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 4: so you really have to be present to what people 288 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 4: are saying and believe them and turn the other way 289 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 4: when it's not aligned. I mean, it's not that black 290 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 4: and white or dichotomous, of course, often, but when it is, 291 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 4: pay attention to it. 292 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: Dating is exhausting. Relationships are exhausting. The things that you 293 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: have to consciously think of to make sure you're getting 294 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 2: what you want and your needs are met, as well 295 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 2: as caring for another human being and making sure their 296 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: needs are met and that you're in a really a 297 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: good place enough to do so. It truly is exhausting. 298 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 4: It takes up The other thing I was going to 299 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 4: say is kind of on the micro level is mindfulness, 300 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 4: which is to your point why it's so exhausting. 301 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 5: It is, Am I mindful? 302 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: Am I all healed? And I'm going to be. 303 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 4: Okay, Well that what you're asking is actually a good 304 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 4: springboard for me to say what I was going to say, 305 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 4: which might sound further exhausting. But to your point that 306 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 4: you were saying at the beginning, it's not dichotomous. It's 307 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 4: not like I'm healed and now I'm done right. It's 308 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 4: a lifelong pursuit to be aware of how we're moving 309 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 4: through the world and how we show up affects other people, 310 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 4: and to be open to feedback and to stand outside 311 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 4: of our feelings and advocate for them and talk about them, 312 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 4: and to take responsibility in terms of how we affect 313 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 4: other people. It's an ongoing pursuit, and so I always 314 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 4: hesitant when people try to think about it. Am I 315 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 4: am I ready? Am I healed? It's not an unworthy 316 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 4: set of questions to ask oneself, but it's really an 317 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 4: ongoing thing. And so I think the mindfulness piece of 318 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 4: like how am I showing up? And how do I 319 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 4: feel about it? And when I show up in a 320 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 4: way that I don't feel good about instead of like 321 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 4: feeling ashamed and then kind of suppressing or ignoring it, 322 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 4: like really looking at it, Oh, I got kind of 323 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 4: just regulated there. 324 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: When do what happen? Like what was going on for me? 325 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 4: What trauma response, what vulnerability was coming up for me? 326 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 4: And like how might I do that differently next time? 327 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 4: You have to continuously, bravely interact with those parts of 328 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 4: yourself that are like wounded or scared or afraid or 329 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 4: shut down or do get dysregulated. That's all of us, 330 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 4: by the way, So if we're not building a relationship 331 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 4: with those hard parts of ourselves, it's going to be 332 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 4: harder to show up the way that we want to 333 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 4: in a relationship. So the mindfulness is a key part 334 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 4: as you're going through. 335 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you said that, because there is 336 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: a moment where I get a little frustrated with myself 337 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: and I think, Okay, my little daddy issues, right, my abandonment. 338 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 2: Stuff that's not going to carry me into the next relationship, 339 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 2: is not going to go with me. But the truth 340 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 2: of the matter is some of those things are deep wounds. 341 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: And I am a visual person, and I say this 342 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: in a sense of like when you look at a 343 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: scar on your body, the scar is there, it's never 344 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: going to leave. Right, there is a scar here. It's 345 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 2: always going to be there. It's never going to leave. 346 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,719 Speaker 2: And that is the truth of what is deep in 347 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 2: my soul. There are scars there. Those things happen to me. 348 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: They can be really beautiful, but they can also get 349 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 2: hold of me at times to and take over. And 350 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 2: those are things, good and bad that I do carry 351 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: into every other relationship. And I'm only saying this out 352 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 2: loud to you because I have to tell myself, and 353 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 2: maybe I'm telling this little girl that needs to be 354 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 2: nurtured is like I don't need to be ashamed of 355 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: those things, right, And I was carrying so much and 356 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 2: was shamed so much for these trauma things that I 357 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: brought up. That the truth is, and tell me if 358 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: I'm wrong, doctor Hillary, But like, the truth is, I 359 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 2: don't have to be ashamed of these things. I have scars, 360 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 2: I have things that I have taken from every relationship 361 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 2: that will go with me into other ones. And there 362 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 2: is beauty in that. 363 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 4: Correct the ultimate and self advocacy. What you're doing right now, 364 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 4: I actually I got the chills. Yes, yes, yes, yes, 365 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 4: I mean the more we build a relationship with those 366 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 4: parts of ourselves, I mean, like a strong, loving relationship 367 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 4: with those parts of ourselves, not just be like okay, 368 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 4: I guess be around, but like come closer, come in, 369 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 4: let me hold you. As we move through integration, that 370 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 4: those are parts of ourselves that we are going to 371 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 4: have to care for, love, manage, and sometimes they're going 372 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 4: to be in the driver's seat and we're going to 373 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 4: gently be like, oops, you ended up in the driver's seat. 374 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 4: I'm not supposed to drive anymore. So I'm gonna generally 375 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 4: like put you in the back and take over again. Right, 376 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 4: So owning that, like, yes, I have parts of myself 377 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 4: that parts of myself that are wounded, and parts of 378 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 4: myself that will feel easily abandoned or easily dismissed. And 379 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 4: those are things I have to watch and I have 380 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 4: to manage. But I'm not shaming them when they come up. No, 381 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 4: I expect them to come up, So I greet them 382 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 4: with kindness, and I welcome them in. I try to 383 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 4: get to know them better and help them heal. Like 384 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 4: when of your kiddos came and said they were in 385 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 4: pain about something that happened at school, you wouldn't be like, 386 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 4: are you still talking about that? You know still that 387 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 4: happened yesterday, that happened last year. You would hold space 388 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 4: for as long as it hurts. And it's the same thing, 389 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 4: you know exponentially with trauma. So expecting those things to 390 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 4: come up and holding it lovingly rather than with shame 391 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 4: changes everything, because the minute we apply shame to those 392 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 4: parts of ourselves, it gets suppressed and we go into 393 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 4: like a paralysis, and we then we have no choices, 394 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 4: and so then we get stuck in those responses we 395 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 4: don't feel good about, as opposed to like, yeah, there 396 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 4: that is again, and I'm going to make amends if 397 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 4: that part of me hurts someone else, and then I'm 398 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 4: going to take good care of it and decide, like 399 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 4: what would advocacy look like in this moment, and like 400 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 4: keep trying, keep practicing. 401 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 3: That's human. 402 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 2: Wow, it's the dirty things. I call them, the dirty things, 403 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: the shame, the guilt, the fear, the shame, the guilt 404 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 2: and fear. And I am one and then I can 405 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 2: old speak for myself, but I am one who leads 406 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 2: with those things. So thank you for saying that. Thank 407 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 2: you for right. I don't want to feel like a 408 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 2: broken little girl. I don't want anyone else to feel 409 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: like a broken little girl. 410 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 3: Right. 411 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 2: We each have a story and we get to take 412 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 2: that and hope we learn and grow from it. So 413 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 2: I'm just really grateful for the conversation with you, a 414 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 2: joke with Heather. She knows me well, like we need 415 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 2: a whole afternoon. 416 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 3: I'm all all. 417 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 2: The healing, you know, and I'm sure they're just like 418 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: it's time for you to shut your mouth now. I'm 419 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: really really grateful, doctor Halery. Thank you for doing this, 420 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: thank you for taking the time to talk with me. 421 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 2: And we really should record again because there's just so 422 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: many nuggets of truth, and we can't possibly do this 423 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 2: in a forty five minute time period. And I'm grateful 424 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: for you and your knowledge and therapy. I am an 425 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 2: advocate for mental and emotional wellbeing, and I'm grateful for 426 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: people who can do that. So I think if we've 427 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 2: taken anything from this is that I can be a 428 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 2: licensed therapist. 429 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 3: I think that's clearly the conclusion. Yes, clearly. Well, thank 430 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 3: you for being so. 431 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 4: Vulnerable because it allows us to talk about things that 432 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 4: are hard to talk about and people don't always get 433 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 4: to be like a witness to these kinds of dialogues, 434 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 4: you know, So I really appreciate your candor. 435 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 3: Thanks. Thank you so nice to stay it with you today. 436 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 3: Thank you you too. Thanks all right, having your time 437 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 3: all right byeye. 438 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: Nie, it's been jumping back in here. Wow, Doctor Hillary, 439 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being a part of this conversation. Deanna. 440 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for opening up on another level 441 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: to our listeners who also might be in your situation, 442 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: but also allowing yourself to be incredibly vulnerable in this 443 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: journey with us. We'll be back with more famously available 444 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: very soon.