Speaker 1: Welcome to the Way, and I Danielle Alarcon.
Speaker 2: I'm John Green and today we're joined by the invisible
Speaker 2: puppet master behind our entire operation, our producer Sean Titone.
Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 3: Sean, Hey, John, Hey Daniel.
Speaker 1: Good to see you guys, as always good to see
Speaker 1: you man.
Speaker 2: So we're waiting on a mail bag show and I
Speaker 2: think that's very important, and that's why we've got Sean today.
Speaker 2: He's going to ask us questions and help us through
Speaker 2: the mail bag. Thank you for all your questions at
Speaker 2: awayndpod at gmail dot com. But today we need to
Speaker 2: do something first, which is congratulate our friend Daniel on
Speaker 2: his big winning of the Premier League.
Speaker 1: It's huge. It's huge for me personally. It's also I
Speaker 1: want to take full I want it all by myself.
Speaker 1: Is an accomplishment for me. No, I want to say
Speaker 1: this like m the You know, there's been a bunch
Speaker 1: of content that has been produced after this this win. Eliseo,
Speaker 1: my son, who was on the show a couple months ago,
Speaker 1: was quick to remind me, as adolescents will, that he
Speaker 1: was right and I was wrong. Because if the listeners
Speaker 1: will recall, after I went to London and saw the
Speaker 1: worst game of the season. I was bereft, I was despondent.
Speaker 1: I was mired in a kind of existential funk, thinking
Speaker 1: that it was over. Alisa came on the show and uh,
Speaker 1: and he basically was like, no, Bobby, you're wrong. And
Speaker 1: so who's your favorite team.
Speaker 4: Like national team or both the Columbia national team, okay,
Speaker 4: or the Arsenal.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. It's the right answer.
Speaker 2: That's great, Aliso, You're gonna win the Premier League. Don't
Speaker 2: listen to your dad.
Speaker 4: No, I'm confident.
Speaker 1: I love the confidence. He's confident.
Speaker 4: It's they have to play against Villa, our toughest opponents, Newcastle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Newcastle's tough, but it's.
Speaker 2: Not Villas fourteenth Daniel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah okay. Edisale speaks with the confidence of
Speaker 1: a young man whose heart has not been broken, and
Speaker 1: so immediately after the win, in like sort of like
Speaker 1: twinned with his happiness and his sort of feeling of
Speaker 1: satisfaction as a fan. Was his feeling of satisfaction, happiness
Speaker 1: that he was able to say to his father, I
Speaker 1: was right and you were wrong, which was like almost
Speaker 1: as I think pleasurable for him as winning was. It
Speaker 1: was it was as great. It's been great, it's been beautiful.
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting to be so emotional about it, but
Speaker 1: it really does feel like a like something, something really
Speaker 1: lovely and special, and it doesn't happen every year. It
Speaker 1: won't happen every year, and for that very reason, it's
Speaker 1: it's something to really save her. Now. If the Knicks
Speaker 1: end up winning, then this will be my greatest sports
Speaker 1: year ever. And if Columbia wins the World Cup, then
Speaker 1: I should just retire from sports because there's nothing more
Speaker 1: that I could ever ask for in a single calendar year.
Speaker 1: You know, you've had this experience down I never have, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty special though. I mean, it really does
Speaker 2: feel like I remember when Liverpool won the Premier League
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. I just felt like a huge weight
Speaker 2: had been lifted. I felt excited and happy, but I
Speaker 2: also felt relieved because you know, all those times that
Speaker 2: Manchester United fans for the last thirty years had sung
Speaker 2: you'll never win the league instead of you'll never walk alone.
Speaker 2: I just felt like, well, that should shut them up
Speaker 2: for a bit, and it has.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has. Yeah, so there's that feeling.
Speaker 2: But you've also got to feel a measure of joy
Speaker 2: in the camaraderie of it, in the other Arsenal fans
Speaker 2: you know, of who's getten through the last twenty two
Speaker 2: years with you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean I got texts from friends in Lima,
Speaker 1: in London, in New York, in Oakland, in Kenya, you know, like,
Speaker 1: I heard from fans from all over and then and
Speaker 1: I posted. I don't post much on Instagram, but I
Speaker 1: posted like a couple of pictures and just sort of
Speaker 1: like a little thing about how happy I was, and
Speaker 1: got so many nice comments. And my friends who hate
Speaker 1: Arsenal were dignified enough to not post like comments on
Speaker 1: my post. And generally it's been it's been really lovely
Speaker 1: to hear from friends.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: When I was in London, I went with two clumbing
Speaker 1: friends to the game, and I remember walking around and
Speaker 1: we talked about it on the show walking around after
Speaker 1: the game, and how everyone was just like cars would
Speaker 1: pass by and people would hang out of the cars
Speaker 1: and make fun of us, you know, calling us, you know,
Speaker 1: cause we were wearing our like sad kits, you know,
Speaker 1: our little our red jerseys, and we were walking around
Speaker 1: London looking for a place to eat and just feeling
Speaker 1: kind of sad, and people were like bottlers, bottlers, you know,
Speaker 1: like everything. We were getting all this hate and we
Speaker 1: couldn't do anything about You couldn't say anything because we
Speaker 1: hadn't won anything, you know, and now we have and
Speaker 1: you know, kind of feels different, you know.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's great, Well you're a champion. There is
Speaker 2: a key here, though, which is then winning the Premier
Speaker 2: League does not make you a better person. The Great
Speaker 2: podcast host Michael Davies have pointed this out. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: does not make you a better person, and if you're
Speaker 2: not careful, it makes you a worse one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's fair. That's fair. I haven't noticed
Speaker 1: a steep decline in my like moral compass since last Tuesday,
Speaker 1: but I'll keep an eye out. Yeah, well, thank you.
Speaker 1: Got to look out for it, Sean, and I will
Speaker 1: let you know. Yeah I did. I did appreciate the
Speaker 1: text that you guys sent and the congratulations and it
Speaker 1: felt nice. It felt nice. I got, you know, and
Speaker 1: I started off by saying, how you know, like that
Speaker 1: it felt like a huge accomplishment, as if I had
Speaker 1: accomplished anything, but the way people were congratulating me and
Speaker 1: genuinely happy for me. It felt almost as if I
Speaker 1: had done something. And I guess what I did do
Speaker 1: is watch you know, ninety percent of Arsenal games over
Speaker 1: the last you know, two decades or a decade and
Speaker 1: a half basically, and follow the team and know the players,
Speaker 1: and follow the stories and cheer for them and hope
Speaker 1: for them and think about the team. And I guess
Speaker 1: that that helps. You know, when I've been in the stadium,
Speaker 1: I've cheered my heart out and sang the songs and
Speaker 1: you know, and I've been with friends. You know, I
Speaker 1: remember seeing a guy when we beat Chelsea. We scored
Speaker 1: the season, we scored a goal in like the last minute,
Speaker 1: and there was a guy in the bar next to me.
Speaker 1: There's an Arsenal bar here in Bouta, And at the
Speaker 1: end of the game he was weeping and his girlfriend
Speaker 1: was like like rubbing his face like this like it's
Speaker 1: gonna it's going to be okay. And I and you know,
Speaker 1: as much as it as silly as it is to
Speaker 1: get invested in the fortunes of a team that plays
Speaker 1: eight thousand kilometers from where you currently call home, you know,
Speaker 1: try explaining that to that guy. You know, like, that's
Speaker 1: what this means. And it was very special and I
Speaker 1: also wondered about his home life. But it's a lovely thing.
Speaker 1: It's a lovely thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, a football club is not the players
Speaker 2: who play for it, right, because those players change. And
Speaker 2: it's not the manager because that person changes. And it's
Speaker 2: not the kit man because that person changes. A football
Speaker 2: club is the people who love it, and of course
Speaker 2: that also changes, but there's continuity there between the people
Speaker 2: who love it, among the people who love it, and
Speaker 2: that's what the football club is.
Speaker 1: So like you did win the Premier League.
Speaker 2: I don't think that, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 2: minimize that accomplishment, because it is an accomplishment that you
Speaker 2: are the football club in many ways, and so the
Speaker 2: club being bigger than anyone within the institution is precisely
Speaker 2: what makes football so magical to me. It's not the
Speaker 2: person who owns it. It's not the players who play
Speaker 2: on the pitch. It's all of us together.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and still mckel won't answer my texts. It's strange.
Speaker 1: I mean, there is that. There is that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: One day, a glossy magazine will offer you a three
Speaker 2: day adventure with mikel Arteta, that'll turn into a one hour,
Speaker 2: really bad interview. But not today. Today, we're going to
Speaker 2: answer some questions in our mail bag Sean, let's dive
Speaker 2: right into it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is I think you know, it's
Speaker 3: our long awaited mail bag show. I will say with
Speaker 3: both of you guys that some of our listeners will
Speaker 3: remember we did do a mail bag show earlier. In
Speaker 3: the away end it was just me and Daniel very
Speaker 3: last minute when John was unable to join.
Speaker 1: But uh, when John was testifying in a federal case. Sean, well, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: allegedly allegedly. Yeah, I just say, just to draw parallel
Speaker 1: from what John just said, the away end is not
Speaker 1: our show, it's your show. And you guys, right, this
Speaker 1: is great that Charles and and and it really feels
Speaker 1: special to be able to to to answer them, and
Speaker 1: and it's also cool. We got emails from all over
Speaker 1: the world, which is really exciting. So let's do it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, uh, you know, next week we'll be back
Speaker 3: to our usual uh banter deep dive story.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we've got so.
Speaker 3: Many good emails, so we're gonna we're gonna jump in,
Speaker 3: all right, This one is from Alan. Alan says, Hello,
Speaker 3: John and Daniel. As a football novice but fervent supporter
Speaker 3: of Bergamo uh it leaves Adelanta b C. I have
Speaker 3: been thoroughly enjoying the podcast. Just yesterday I gave the
Speaker 3: salutorian speech my high school graduation, a speech that I
Speaker 3: built around a quote from the show, though I admittedly
Speaker 3: heard it first on a VLOGG Brothers episode. That quote
Speaker 3: is of all the unimportant things, football is the most important,
Speaker 3: by Pope John Paul. I. Like I said, though I'm
Speaker 3: a novice, so I chose to talk about an unimportant
Speaker 3: thing I am more of an expert on, and that's
Speaker 3: being a lacrosse goalie.
Speaker 1: Hmm.
Speaker 3: This brings me to my question. I've been teased a
Speaker 3: few times by my friends who are more familiar with
Speaker 3: football than I am because I've said that my favorite
Speaker 3: player is Marco Keannaseki, the superstar keeper for Atalanta. They
Speaker 3: seem to say that no one considers goalies their favorite players,
Speaker 3: and as a goalie, this hurts and I would love
Speaker 3: to know what you think about this keeper slander. Great question,
Speaker 3: yeah all, and nobody has keepers as their favorite player.
Speaker 1: That's weird. Oh I love David Rya.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you love David Rya, but not like
Speaker 2: you love Soaka. Look, I'm going to say this.
Speaker 1: I think there's a strong case to be made that
Speaker 1: David Raya is this season's most valuable player for Arsenal.
Speaker 1: I think he's you know, the certainty and the assuredness
Speaker 1: that he brings to the team is remarkable. The confidence
Speaker 1: that the defenders have to play the way they do
Speaker 1: knowing that he's behind them, The way he organizes the defense,
Speaker 1: the way he dominates his box, the big saves that
Speaker 1: he's made that are just you know, he's a catlike. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but generally, you know, like you won't see a goalie,
Speaker 1: uh in the in the discussion for ballond or you know,
Speaker 1: the kind of the biggest prize for individual players. But
Speaker 1: you know who was a goalie. Albert Camu was a goalie.
Speaker 1: You know, like goalies are freaking crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're kind of they're a different stock. They god,
Speaker 2: they they're they're fearless. They put their body in the
Speaker 2: line in ways that other players don't. You see them
Speaker 2: diving into the scrum to grab the ball. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, that's a dangerous games, that's arguably the most
Speaker 2: dangerous position, and their bravery and fearlessness, you know, not
Speaker 2: to call it recklessness, is something to be admired or
Speaker 2: at the very least respected.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: I also think that some of the goalie slander, and
Speaker 2: you're right alan that it is unfair, dates back to
Speaker 2: the age when all goalies did was catch the ball
Speaker 2: with their hands or try to stop the ball from
Speaker 2: going in the net. Now, the position of goalie is
Speaker 2: vastly more complicated because you have to be a brilliant
Speaker 2: distributor of the ball, you have to have an understanding
Speaker 2: of space, you have to be able to use all
Speaker 2: four of your limbs with incredible dexterity. You know, in
Speaker 2: many ways, it's become the most challenging position on the field,
Speaker 2: and a lot of the you know, goalies are just
Speaker 2: sort of brave people with quick reaction times. Way of
Speaker 2: thinking about the position I think is outdated. And that's
Speaker 2: true of lacross too, by the way, right, lacrosse goalie
Speaker 2: is not just about how how many shots you stop.
Speaker 2: It's also about how well you distribute the ball after
Speaker 2: you stop a shot. So yeah, I think that with
Speaker 2: that emergence of of of the role of goalkeeper. We
Speaker 2: need to be more respectful of the position.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so the goalkeeper is not just your last
Speaker 1: line of defense but also your first line of attack, you.
Speaker 2: Know, right, And the best goalkeepers get assists.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you guys think that keepers feel the most pressure
Speaker 3: of all of the positions on the team because they
Speaker 3: are that last line of defense in some way, It's like.
Speaker 1: I do Sewan in this one unique way, which is
Speaker 1: that if you if you, if you make a mistake
Speaker 1: in the midfield or up front, it doesn't always lead
Speaker 1: to a goal, but if you make a mistake as
Speaker 1: a as a goalie, it leads to a goal nine
Speaker 1: times out of ten. So that you're you're there's like
Speaker 1: a bigger spotlight trained on your errors, and no one
Speaker 1: is error free over the course of a game or
Speaker 1: over the course of a season. But you know, midfielders
Speaker 1: will lose a duel all the time, and you know,
Speaker 1: then something happens and event you know, eventually a goal
Speaker 1: get scored. And generally people don't point the finger at
Speaker 1: someone who lost the ball in ninety seconds earlier, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but for god, yeah, I think the cost of
Speaker 2: mistakes is higher, and then also the benefit of doing
Speaker 2: your job is lower, you know, like, very rarely are
Speaker 2: saved celebrated like goals. Occasionally they are. I remember there
Speaker 2: was one save the Jersey du Deck made in two
Speaker 2: thousand and five during the Champions League Final against Schifchenko
Speaker 2: that was the most amazing save I've ever seen in
Speaker 2: my life, and that was celebrated a little bit like
Speaker 2: a goal. But you've got to have a really special
Speaker 2: save for it to be celebrated like an ordinary goal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think I think of the West
Speaker 1: Ham game Matteos Fernandez is in on goal one on
Speaker 1: one and and uh that I just stood stayed big,
Speaker 1: stayed big for as long as possible and forced them
Speaker 1: to go in near post and saved with a kicksabe
Speaker 1: And that arguably one is you know, one is the title.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think I have in my head when
Speaker 1: I think of the highlights of this season, there's five
Speaker 1: or six game saving, point winning saves that the David
Speaker 1: Reyah made that deserve as much credit as a as
Speaker 1: a goal here or there. You know.
Speaker 3: All right, well you guys ready to move on to
Speaker 3: the next Yeah, Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: Hello, John and Daniel, I'm not a big sports fan,
Speaker 3: but I enjoy your perspectives on soccer, especially the personal
Speaker 3: or historical stories. I have a question, is there such
Speaker 3: a thing as a compelling pre or postgame interview? Whenever
Speaker 3: I catch an interview on the radio, it seems to
Speaker 3: me that coaches and players use the same old, vague
Speaker 3: and diplomatic phrases. But I'm also at a loss as
Speaker 3: to what they're supposed to say that's more interesting than
Speaker 3: we gave it, are all or our opponent proved to
Speaker 3: be the better team. I'm looking forward to following the
Speaker 3: Men's World Cup exclusively through the lens of your podcast.
Speaker 1: Cheers. Moretz love this question. I love this question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: don what do you want from a postgame interview?
Speaker 2: Occasionally you'll see a postgame interview that is really honest
Speaker 2: and it's always shocking, or when somebody's able to penetrate
Speaker 2: the morass of sport related cliche and find a way
Speaker 2: to express something that's fresh or original or exciting. But
Speaker 2: it's very occasional. The only thing I'll say is that
Speaker 2: there is something worse than the bland, boring press conference,
Speaker 2: which is Mohammed Salah going to the press every time
Speaker 2: Mohammed Sala like went out into the press area.
Speaker 1: In his entire.
Speaker 2: Liverpool career, it was to deliver an absolute bomb. That
Speaker 2: was like, I have no confidence in the manager or
Speaker 2: my teammates are not playing with the fire that I
Speaker 2: would appreciate. Like, it was always to deliver an attack.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'd rather you be bland than that. I
Speaker 1: was thinking about this question a lot, actually, and I
Speaker 1: remembered there was a guy at NBA's you know, leaving
Speaker 1: the world of football for a moment. There was an
Speaker 1: NBA sideline report named Craig Sager who was known for
Speaker 1: wearing these wild suits, right yeah, And in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: I can remember what season it was, like, first seed
Speaker 1: was LA and last seed was the Timberwolves, and the
Speaker 1: Timberwolves won the game one surprised everybody, and Kevin Garnett
Speaker 1: gave a you know, immediately after the whistle gave us
Speaker 1: gave an interview to Craig Sager, and of course everyone
Speaker 1: had counted out the t Wolves, and Garnett says to
Speaker 1: Craig Sager, he goes like, we're like you in that suit.
Speaker 1: We don't care what people say. And I just remember thinking, man,
Speaker 1: I love KG I love him. Yeah, you know. Also,
Speaker 1: I think these guys are it's so rare. Yeah. Have
Speaker 1: you seen John or Sean? Have you seen interviews with
Speaker 1: Cole Palmer? Yes, man, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I feel bad watching them. I feel guilty, like I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm watching footballer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable. I don't know what to
Speaker 1: say about it. But if anyone here is listening, I
Speaker 1: don't want to use any adjectives or make any long
Speaker 1: distance diagnoses. But uh, man, wow.
Speaker 2: He does seem disengaged with the world of the press,
Speaker 2: is what I would say about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like the media training didn't take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's possible he's disengaged in a larger way, like with.
Speaker 1: It reality.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think with Cole Palmer, I do wonder. I
Speaker 2: know this, this person has an interior life that is
Speaker 2: as complex and rich as my own. But he doesn't
Speaker 2: seem to want to share with the media.
Speaker 1: That's for sure. Yes, and that's possibly a generous interpretation.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say anymore because I don't want
Speaker 1: to slander someone that I've never met, who I'm sure
Speaker 1: is a nice person despite playing for Chelsea. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think more. It's two things. I think
Speaker 1: you should also watch the games, not just listen to
Speaker 1: our pod. And I think you just have to learn
Speaker 1: to live with bland postgame interviews, because that's how elite
Speaker 1: athletes now are trained to engage with the media.
Speaker 2: You know, well, I have to say I've had a
Speaker 2: lot of media training, and the main thing media training
Speaker 2: attempts to do is make it so that you don't
Speaker 2: end your career by saying something stupid. And when the
Speaker 2: prospect of like ending your career by saying something stupid
Speaker 2: is sitting on one of your shoulders, the other shoulder
Speaker 2: is like, be bland, Be bland at all costs.
Speaker 1: Right, Wow, I haven't had any media training. You never
Speaker 1: had media training? No, oh, man, I've had.
Speaker 2: I've had a lot of it. Really really beat the
Speaker 2: individuality out of me.
Speaker 1: But and yet your career continues. So here you are, and.
Speaker 2: Yet like, if you watch me in an interview, you'll
Speaker 2: be like, now, there's a guy who is looking to
Speaker 2: deflect every question that he's asked and return it to
Speaker 2: the issue of at hand, which is that His new novel,
Speaker 2: Hollywood Ending, comes out on September twenty second, is available
Speaker 2: for pre order.
Speaker 1: Now there's a guy who has two kids to put
Speaker 1: through college. Yeah, exactly, all right.
Speaker 3: I will say I've been on the other really quick.
Speaker 3: I've been on the other side of it, where I've
Speaker 3: been the inner viewer, not on camera, but where I've
Speaker 3: interviewed people after a sporting event and tried to get
Speaker 3: those answers. And there is nothing worse than talking to
Speaker 3: an athlete or whomever you're talking to who is either
Speaker 3: giving you one word answers or very bland answers, and
Speaker 3: it will make a two minute interview feel like an
Speaker 3: eternity and you're just like ready to be done with
Speaker 3: it as quickly as possible. But you know, in your
Speaker 3: back of your mind, you're like, I have to if
Speaker 3: it's live or not live, I'm going to have to
Speaker 3: edit this later, so I need to get some kind
Speaker 3: of good answers out of this person, hopefully to use
Speaker 3: for whatever I'm going to be editing.
Speaker 1: So I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm always thankful. I was always thankful for people that
Speaker 3: had a really good answer to certain questions. And maybe
Speaker 3: the bland answers just make the more unconventional answers all
Speaker 3: the more enjoyable when they do have.
Speaker 2: That's more you'll shine through, sure, true, like watching a
Speaker 2: boring game of football makes football richer and more exciting
Speaker 2: when it's good. Yeah, all right, we're going to take
Speaker 2: a break and we'll be back with more of your
Speaker 2: questions shortly.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back on your way in Sean. What
Speaker 1: do we got? All right?
Speaker 3: Dear Daniel and John, Is there a particular way that
Speaker 3: you feel sport has shaped your perspectives, helped in your
Speaker 3: career or in your personal life? Perhaps his parents Love
Speaker 3: from London, North London Forever Jess, Hmmm, Yes, it's a
Speaker 3: deep one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. There was a time when my boys were younger
Speaker 1: when I kept in my pocket red cards and yellow cards, uh,
Speaker 1: and and they would do something annoying and I would
Speaker 1: just you know, put up with the yellow card. And
Speaker 1: this really worked, you know, and like you know, you
Speaker 1: didn't want to get a double yellow at a playdate,
Speaker 1: you know, And this was actually a really good parenting technique.
Speaker 1: And I think in my career, I think I spoke
Speaker 1: about this on the way and but I've gotten to
Speaker 1: play soccer in some pretty crazy places and it's always
Speaker 1: helped me make friends when I've moved to new places,
Speaker 1: new towns, or make friends in the context of reporting,
Speaker 1: and have sort of a baseline set of shared knowledge
Speaker 1: that I can draw upon with almost anybody that I
Speaker 1: that I meet around the world. So that's been super helpful.
Speaker 2: What about you, John, Yeah, I would say that part
Speaker 2: of it for sure is true for me as well,
Speaker 2: that you know, anywhere I travel, football is a common
Speaker 2: language and we can talk about that. You know, it's
Speaker 2: not universal. Of course, not everybody's a football fan, but
Speaker 2: a lot of people are, and that's a good point
Speaker 2: of connection, shared side of interest. The other thing I
Speaker 2: would say, though, is something else we've talked about a
Speaker 2: lot on the pod, which is that soccer players at
Speaker 2: a really elite level have an unbelievable amount of self belief.
Speaker 2: They really think that they can do things that are
Speaker 2: exceptional and hard. And that's true not only for you know,
Speaker 2: players for Arsenal who just lifted the Premier League trophy.
Speaker 2: It's also true for players in the third and fourth
Speaker 2: divisions of English football. They have to believe that they
Speaker 2: are really, really good and that they are capable of
Speaker 2: extraordinary things, and that when they stick together they can,
Speaker 2: for instance, if they get an FA Cup tie against Liverpool,
Speaker 2: that they can beat Liverpool. They have to believe that.
Speaker 2: And I've learned in my career that that ability to
Speaker 2: tell yourself that you belong and you are good is
Speaker 2: really useful. Y'all knew me when I was fifteen years old.
Speaker 2: I am not somebody who has a lot of inborn
Speaker 2: built in confidence. I didn't grow up with a ton
Speaker 2: of confidence. I grew up nerdy and bullied and uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: And I learned, partly from watching sports, that you just
Speaker 2: have to believe in yourself. It's really really important no
Speaker 2: matter what you do in life.
Speaker 1: Absolutely love that. Thank you, Jess. That was a great question.
Speaker 1: North London Forever. Okay, what's next, Jean.
Speaker 3: Hello, John and Daniel. In your episode with Simon Cooper,
Speaker 3: it was mentioned that Team USA would be playing quote
Speaker 3: practical soccer while other countries will play quote beautiful soccer
Speaker 3: in the upcoming World Cup. I do not know what
Speaker 3: this means. I've tried to understand the difference between MLS
Speaker 3: and Premier League play styles, but I just do not
Speaker 3: know what to look for between these leagues regardless. Does
Speaker 3: quote beautiful football mean better football or is considered a
Speaker 3: specific style of play. There's any insight either of you
Speaker 3: would be able to provide, I would appreciate it. Brand
Speaker 3: And he's referencing, you know, Simon Cooper. We had the
Speaker 3: great Simon Cooper, author of the most recent book World
Speaker 3: Cup Fever, on a previous episode of The Away End.
Speaker 3: You guys had a great conversation with him. If you
Speaker 3: haven't listened to that episode, go check that one out
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is a really great question. You
Speaker 2: want to go Tom, sure. I think part of it
Speaker 2: is how you set up to play. You know, so
Speaker 2: you set up one way usually to play when you
Speaker 2: have the ball, in one way when you don't have
Speaker 2: the ball, and a lot of teams that are playing
Speaker 2: sort of practical football that don't have the talent level
Speaker 2: of their opponents are going to set up with what
Speaker 2: sometimes called a low block. They're going to set up
Speaker 2: in a really defensive position and try to kind of
Speaker 2: withstand pressure. And then when they have the ball, which
Speaker 2: they know will be for a minority of the game,
Speaker 2: they you know, organize themselves differently or they try to
Speaker 2: focus on counterattacking, so getting the ball back and then
Speaker 2: moving very very quickly up the field. And trying to
Speaker 2: make something happen that way. That way of playing football
Speaker 2: is generally considered, although perhaps unfairly, less beautiful, less moving,
Speaker 2: less like visually exciting and interesting and intricate than you know,
Speaker 2: like the way Brazil or the Netherlands play football, where
Speaker 2: everybody is touching the ball all the time, and you know,
Speaker 2: the sort of total football of the Dutch from the
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies where you know, your your your defenders can
Speaker 2: become attackers and your attackers can become defenders, and everybody
Speaker 2: is moving in a very flowing, coordinated, open way.
Speaker 1: Is that fair to say, Daniel, Or have I missed something? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I think that's that's exactly right. I think you know,
Speaker 1: this season Arsenal one. I'm sorry I keep referencing this
Speaker 1: thing that happened because it's prettympore to me. But you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of the critique I think was fairly lobbed
Speaker 1: at Arsenal was that it wasn't a particularly beautiful game
Speaker 1: to watch. They scored a lot of goals from corner kicks,
Speaker 1: they from set pieces. Uh, pretty turgid offensively and just
Speaker 1: impenetrable defensively. Uh, you know, Titanic defenders. So I think,
Speaker 1: you know, next weekend, uh Arsenal's playing PSG in the
Speaker 1: Champions League Final. PSG is a team that has played
Speaker 1: much less football than Arsenal because of the way the
Speaker 1: league League league is set up, and they save their best,
Speaker 1: very best players to for for for Europe, and they
Speaker 1: play an incredible attacking I mean, they're just irresistible to watch,
Speaker 1: and it's really gonna be a clash of styles. And
Speaker 1: I would say to Brandt, you know, watch that game,
Speaker 1: or even just watch the highlights of you know, uh
Speaker 1: Arsenal Atletico and then watched the highlights of uh PSG
Speaker 1: Byron of the first leg of either of those games.
Speaker 1: Both that were very entertaining games in their own way,
Speaker 1: but for the untrained eye, you know, the PSD Byron
Speaker 1: game was box office. I mean that was incredible. You know,
Speaker 1: it had everything. It was just attacking, attacking, attacking, two
Speaker 1: teams of incredible attacking talent who seemed not that interested
Speaker 1: in playing defense, just seeing who could you know, it
Speaker 1: was like a basketball game, who can who can score more?
Speaker 1: The Arsenal game was attritional, was very tactical, both teams
Speaker 1: sort of playing within themselves, and you know ended up
Speaker 1: in a draw one one. It's totally different and you
Speaker 1: could you know, that's probably the starkest difference. And then
Speaker 1: you'll see a huge difference on Saturday in the Champions
Speaker 1: League Final because Arsenal's not going to go out there
Speaker 1: to try to play expansive, free flowing you know, front
Speaker 1: to back and in like six intricate one touch passes
Speaker 1: through the midfield of PSD. It would be it would
Speaker 1: be silly to do that. What they're going to do
Speaker 1: is try to narrow the game and hit them on
Speaker 1: the counter or hit them on a set piece, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's what's gonna happen, because it just doesn't make sense,
Speaker 1: you know. I think both are great once you know,
Speaker 1: I understand why Arsenal got so much criticism this season
Speaker 1: for playing that way. I also think that if you
Speaker 1: look at you know, there's reasons why you end up
Speaker 1: playing that way. Injuries, you know, playing against the low
Speaker 1: block all the time forces you to try different things,
Speaker 1: including set pieces, to try to you know, break the
Speaker 1: dead luck. I don't know's it's I find it all
Speaker 1: kind of fun. I've definitely seen boring games in my life,
Speaker 1: but a really kind of Cagy tactical game can be
Speaker 1: fun to watch as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as for the difference between MLS and the
Speaker 2: Premier League, I think that you're right to not be
Speaker 2: able to see a visual difference.
Speaker 1: Like they both cross the ball really well.
Speaker 2: I mean they're probably a little more somewhat more crosses
Speaker 2: into the box in MLS, but like they both cross
Speaker 2: the ball well, they both switch fields of play well.
Speaker 2: MLS is a little slower pace of it is a
Speaker 2: little slower, and you can you can tell that difference.
Speaker 2: The players are more likely to be walking, which is
Speaker 2: why it's also a great league if you're thirty eight
Speaker 2: year old li at all MESSI but I think they're
Speaker 2: you know, technically very good and the level of you know,
Speaker 2: like that basic technical stuff is pretty high. Where you
Speaker 2: will really see the difference is if you come watch
Speaker 2: an AFC Wimbledon game with me, then you'll be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I get it. Like these are like you know, these
Speaker 2: are long passes where lots of people are heading it
Speaker 2: and then they're heading it and then they're heading it
Speaker 2: and nobody really has the ball forty minutes of the
Speaker 2: ninety minutes, and there you can see the difference.
Speaker 1: I want to say one more thing about this In Spanish,
Speaker 1: In Spanish announcers, you know, proven announcers, I'll say this, Well,
Speaker 1: when someone kicks the ball high, they'll say dividel ballogne.
Speaker 1: You know, like when someone just clears the ball away,
Speaker 1: they're like, he just divided the ball. And it's basically like,
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't say like he cleared it, he spang,
Speaker 1: did he you know, defensive clear? No, it's like divided ballone,
Speaker 1: meaning he got the ball away and now we don't
Speaker 1: know who's going to get it. And there's it's a
Speaker 1: bit of a pejorative because like you should be you know,
Speaker 1: even defensively building right, And I think that that, you know,
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that if you have a
Speaker 1: high level of technical play, then you're more likely to
Speaker 1: be able to do that successfully.
Speaker 2: But you have to have the quality to build, and
Speaker 2: a lot of exacts don't have the quality to build.
Speaker 1: I have a good friend, my friend Luke Dempsey, who
Speaker 1: told me that when he was growing up at England
Speaker 1: he's a little bit older than us, you put the
Speaker 1: worst players in the midfield because basically you would kick it,
Speaker 1: you know, as hard as you could as high as
Speaker 1: you could over the midfield. It was equivalent of being
Speaker 1: like playing softball as a kid and you suck, so
Speaker 1: they put you in the outfield. So the midfield players
Speaker 1: barely ever touched the ball. You go straight from defense
Speaker 1: to attack, and often with the you know ballon DVD deal,
Speaker 1: you know, the ball was divided between two teams and
Speaker 1: then it would just bounce around until someone would get
Speaker 1: a shove. You know. That's obviously changed, you know, tremendously,
Speaker 1: and now you put your best players in the midfield,
Speaker 1: your most technical players, your players who were most assured
Speaker 1: or two footed, you know, and put them in the
Speaker 1: field because they can distribute and they can do things
Speaker 1: that you otherwise would be able to do.
Speaker 3: All right, let's go to our next question. Hi, Daniel,
Speaker 3: John and Sean. My question is specifically for Daniel, can
Speaker 3: you please explain to me the allure of the North
Speaker 3: London Derby. I've been following soccer for a long time,
Speaker 3: but as an American, it took me a while to
Speaker 3: choose a European team to support. However, a few years ago,
Speaker 3: after many years of waffling, I made the highly dubious
Speaker 3: decision to support Tottenham in part having been romance by
Speaker 3: the beautiful play and gleeful smile of the now departed
Speaker 3: sun hung men. Now a few years in, I still
Speaker 3: don't get the allure of the North London Derby. That is,
Speaker 3: I don't get why I'm supposed to dislike Arsenal. As
Speaker 3: a longtime Arsenal supporter yourself, I'd be interested. I'd be
Speaker 3: interested to hear any insight into this matter. You may
Speaker 3: have thanks and keep up the great work, Evan god
Speaker 3: I love this question, John, I love this question. Okay,
Speaker 3: So there's there are historical reasons, and there's also the
Speaker 3: most important reason, which is like, the reason you buy
Speaker 3: into rivalry is because it's part of belonging, you know.
Speaker 3: And I think as a as a Spurs fan, Evan,
Speaker 3: you should hate Arsenal because that's part of the kind
Speaker 3: of contract, you know, that's part of what you signed
Speaker 3: on for. And so the historical reasons, I'll just jump
Speaker 3: into these, because Arsenal is a team that was originally
Speaker 3: formed in South London fifteen workers at this munitions factory
Speaker 3: that was called Woolwich, and that club was founded in
Speaker 3: the late eighteen hundreds, originally called Dial Square, then Royal
Speaker 3: Arsenal and Woolwich Arsenal eventually just Arsenal.
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirteen, Arsenal moved from South London to Highbury
Speaker 1: and this was just four miles down the road from
Speaker 1: Whitehart Lane, which was Tottenham Stadium, and that's where the
Speaker 1: beef begins. They played before, but it wasn't a Darby,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a rivalry because they were just two teams
Speaker 1: from London, from different parts of London. When Arsenal moved
Speaker 1: in and encroached upon Tottenham's territory, that's when the rivalry began,
Speaker 1: and it's basically just a neighborhood beef, like who's the
Speaker 1: king of North London is the thing. The rivalry escalated
Speaker 1: a few years later, and this is I think Tottenham
Speaker 1: fans and Tottenham historians have a legitimate beef here because
Speaker 1: the English top flight expanded to twenty two teams and
Speaker 1: Tottenham was one of the teams that had been relegated.
Speaker 1: So one of the options was just to keep the
Speaker 1: teams that have been relegated and then add a few more.
Speaker 1: But the Powers would be skipped over Tottenham and grabbed
Speaker 1: Arsenal from the league below. They'd finished like sixth in
Speaker 1: the league below and brought them up to expand the league.
Speaker 1: And you know what, that's super unfair and that sort
Speaker 1: of cemented sort of the historical reasons why Tottenham and
Speaker 1: Arsenal do not get along. But you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: Darby's are just rivalries just mean more. And so you
Speaker 1: can have a shit season if you're an Everton fan,
Speaker 1: if you have a bad season, but you beat Liverpool,
Speaker 1: you know, and if you do the unthinkable, which is
Speaker 1: like be Liverpool at Anfield, that's a great season. That's
Speaker 1: that's one of the moments that you have. And winning
Speaker 1: at white Hart Lane or winning at Tottenham Stadium is
Speaker 1: better than winning at Brighton. You know. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just more pleasurable, you know. And I would just encourage you, Evan,
Speaker 1: just to lean into it, man, lean into it and
Speaker 1: enjoy it. One day you're gonna beat us and it's
Speaker 1: going to be great. Could happen next season? Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think about this in the context of whether it's
Speaker 2: possible to create an US that doesn't also create a them.
Speaker 2: You know, to what extent can we create strong communities
Speaker 2: that don't have others? And I think it's really hard.
Speaker 2: It's a lot easier to make that US affairs of them,
Speaker 2: and this is a relatively healthy way to do it,
Speaker 2: as long as you remember that it's just a construct
Speaker 2: and it's not real, and like you know, Tottenham fans
Speaker 2: are not like inherently better or worse than Arsenal fans.
Speaker 2: It's just, uh, it's just a way of strengthening the
Speaker 2: sense of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and I use I use hate in air quotes,
Speaker 1: you know, like the rival recourse. I know is it's
Speaker 1: it's all it's all fun and games, and it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not and nor should it be anything more than that,
Speaker 1: you know, uh and yeah, and there's it's really hard
Speaker 1: sometimes because there's so much furvor and emotion around these games,
Speaker 1: and you see it all over the world where fandom
Speaker 1: becomes something else that it shouldn't be. You know, that
Speaker 1: is not it's not about belonging. It's about you know,
Speaker 1: it's about violence and anger and and rancor. And that
Speaker 1: isn't any fun for anybody. So don't lean into that, evan,
Speaker 1: lean into the fun parts of a rivalry and celebrate
Speaker 1: your team and congratulations for staying up. All right, So
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break, guys, and we'll come back
Speaker 1: with a few more questions and then a story from
Speaker 1: a listener.
Speaker 2: All right, we're back on the away and Sean, what's
Speaker 2: our next question?
Speaker 3: Hello, John and Daniel. In my life, I have deeply
Speaker 3: loved two football teams, the US women's national team and Liverpool.
Speaker 3: They have both given me so much over the years,
Speaker 3: from epic highs to devastating lows and some of the
Speaker 3: best people in the world. But as happens with the
Speaker 3: all professionals sports teams, they change over time. Players retire
Speaker 3: or get traded, managers rotate through and the team that
Speaker 3: you fell in love with doesn't really exist anymore. To me,
Speaker 3: this feeling is like a prolonged, excruciating breakup that you
Speaker 3: have no control over it, and I can't seem to
Speaker 3: figure out how to get over it. As season team
Speaker 3: supporters who have seen many, many versions of the teams
Speaker 3: you love, do you get this feeling too, and if so, how.
Speaker 1: Do you deal with it? Jamie?
Speaker 2: I am devastated when a player I really love leaves
Speaker 2: the football club, like I remember when Roberto Fromino left Liverpool.
Speaker 2: It was like a not like a close family member
Speaker 2: had abandoned me, but like a first cousin or something
Speaker 2: was like, I don't want you in my life anymore.
Speaker 1: I want to go to Saudi.
Speaker 2: Arabia now, and I was really actively sad, which I
Speaker 2: know is ludicrous. Roberta Formo doesn't think about me, and
Speaker 2: nor should he when he's making his decisions about his
Speaker 2: footballing career. But I guess the benefit of having been
Speaker 2: a long term fan is that you see all those
Speaker 2: people come back. You know, you see that. You just
Speaker 2: know that Roberta Fermino is going to return to anfield
Speaker 2: twenty years from now, and he's going to hear those
Speaker 2: same songs that we sung for him when he was
Speaker 2: a player, and he's gonna cry, and he's gonna have
Speaker 2: his kids with him, and his kids are going to
Speaker 2: be twenty years old and playing for Barcelona's youth team
Speaker 2: or something. You just you're able to zoom out and
Speaker 2: see that in the context of this being part of
Speaker 2: Liverpool or the US women's national team will always have
Speaker 2: been an important part of these people's lives, and so
Speaker 2: they aren't really all the way gone just because they've
Speaker 2: they've moved on or retired.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, that's a great answer. I also think that
Speaker 1: the the trajectories of teams and the fallow periods are
Speaker 1: what make the Swede moments all the all the sweeters.
Speaker 1: So you see a player go and your heartbroken, especially
Speaker 1: when players go to a bigger club or for more
Speaker 1: money or for the chances to win the trophies that
Speaker 1: your particular club can't offer at the moment. And then
Speaker 1: you know, some kid from the academy shows up and
Speaker 1: embodies the values of the club or the values that
Speaker 1: you associate with your club, and loves the shirt and
Speaker 1: just loves playing for the team and brings new energy,
Speaker 1: and then you fall in love all over again. And
Speaker 1: that's part of the process of loving a team and
Speaker 1: supporting a team. And with the national team it's the same,
Speaker 1: you know. You know there are good there are players
Speaker 1: that we have not really heard of yet who in
Speaker 1: six weeks time will be household names across the world
Speaker 1: who are going to make their mark on this tournament
Speaker 1: and do beautiful, amazing things for their national teams and
Speaker 1: become heroes, you know, And that's a really exciting thing
Speaker 1: to not yet know who those players are.
Speaker 3: Can I just note that when Jamie said, as seasoned
Speaker 3: team supporters who have seen many, many versions of the
Speaker 3: teams you love. I felt that I felt that a
Speaker 3: little bit. It do a little bit like an attack.
Speaker 3: They could have just said one mini would have sufficed,
Speaker 3: but yeah, two many.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was asked to when I was playing in
Speaker 1: New York a few years ago. I was asked to
Speaker 1: join a team and I was like, guys, I'm pretty old,
Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, but the club has lots of
Speaker 1: different age levels, and the age level that I was
Speaker 1: asked to play in was the age level was Legends.
Speaker 1: It was like deceased, you know. I was like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: And then I want to play with Legends and I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I couldn't hang. They were in such good shape. These
Speaker 1: were all like fifty five year old guys, who could,
Speaker 1: you know, run for days. I was like, nah, I
Speaker 1: can't do it. I can't do it anyway, all right.
Speaker 3: Next question, Hello Daniel and John. What do you think
Speaker 3: of the straight red card rumored to be a new
Speaker 3: rule in this Men's World Cup for any player who
Speaker 3: covers his mouth during a dispute with an opposing player.
Speaker 3: It feels kind of bonkers, but maybe it's grounded in
Speaker 3: something that I'm not getting with Giant appreciation for all
Speaker 3: you were doing in your pod. Liz from Washington State, Liz,
Speaker 3: there is an unfortunate reason that this has to be
Speaker 3: a rule, And the reason, I'm sorry is that people
Speaker 3: around the world are racist. And there have been multiple
Speaker 3: incidents of people players covering their mouths and then saying
Speaker 3: something racist, and then a player reporting it and not
Speaker 3: either not being believed or being dismissed or being booed
Speaker 3: by opposing fans and some teams who are also racist,
Speaker 3: and the whole thing is ann fortunate, just reality of
Speaker 3: the world that we live in. I wonder how closely
Speaker 3: this rule is going to be enforced. I think so
Speaker 3: many yeah, so many players just have the habit of
Speaker 3: doing this because you don't want the cameras to pick
Speaker 3: up if you're having a conversation about tactics or who's
Speaker 3: going to take the free kick or whatever. And it's
Speaker 3: just becomes such a habit that some player is going
Speaker 3: to accidentally cover their mouth not say something racist, you know,
Speaker 3: but just to have a conversation with another player on
Speaker 3: the pitch, and they might get a red card.
Speaker 1: And I'm worried about that. But there is a reason,
Speaker 1: and that's the reason there is a good reason.
Speaker 2: I'm worried that it will be enforced haphazardly, or that
Speaker 2: it'll be somebody who accidentally covers their mouth while saying
Speaker 2: something totally innocuous and gets a red card, and that's
Speaker 2: such a huge shift in the overall vibe of a
Speaker 2: game that it would be a catastrophic mistake player to make.
Speaker 2: And so I just I worry about that. But I
Speaker 2: absolutely understand that you know, this is this has been
Speaker 2: a problem over and over and over again, and every
Speaker 2: time the offending player says, well, I didn't say anything,
Speaker 2: and they're they always set it behind their hand so
Speaker 2: that you can't read their lips or and the referee
Speaker 2: might not hear it, and so you know.
Speaker 1: It's it.
Speaker 2: It comes from an important place. We'll see how it's
Speaker 2: actually implemented.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, it's going to be curious. It's going to
Speaker 3: be curious.
Speaker 1: And I'm reminded of something in Simon Cooper's book where
Speaker 1: he talks about the way referees for World Cups are chosen,
Speaker 1: and it's not necessarily because they're the best referees, you know,
Speaker 1: because FIFA and all the federations that are beneath FIFA
Speaker 1: the national organizations sort of suffer from the same level
Speaker 1: of corruption. You're not going to necessarily get the greatest
Speaker 1: refs around. You're just going to get someone who is
Speaker 1: you know, plucked from their national league and thrown into
Speaker 1: the mixer, and they either don't have the training, they
Speaker 1: might not have the expertise, or they might not have
Speaker 1: the cohonis to make you know, the right calls at
Speaker 1: the right moments. So adding this kind of rule, although
Speaker 1: I support anything that we can do to sort of
Speaker 1: stamp out racism in the game and in the world.
Speaker 1: You know, let's see how it works. It could really backfire,
Speaker 1: but it remains to be seen. But that is the reason. Liz,
Speaker 1: all right, Sean, what have we got? All Right?
Speaker 3: We have a pretty epic story here from listener William.
Speaker 3: You know, as a way and listeners know, you know,
Speaker 3: we usually end the podcast with a story from one
Speaker 3: of you guys, but when we got this email from William,
Speaker 3: we felt like it deserved to end today's episod. So yeah,
Speaker 3: we will dive in here to his story. William. It's
Speaker 3: a great story. Dear John and Daniel. I was sixteen,
Speaker 3: the brain of the Vuvazela dominated the halls of my
Speaker 3: Long Island High School, and all of my friends and
Speaker 3: I followed along with the games as best as we could.
Speaker 3: I grew more and more excited as the tournament progressed.
Speaker 3: That year, the school's foreign language class trip was to
Speaker 3: Spain and we would be there during the semi final
Speaker 3: and final matches. Fast forward to the trip and twenty
Speaker 3: five high schoolers are going from city to city in
Speaker 3: Spain with some teachers as chaperones. We watched the semifinal
Speaker 3: match while we're there, and we celebrate with the country
Speaker 3: that they're going to the final. The whole country was electric.
Speaker 3: I had never felt anything like it in the United States,
Speaker 3: and to this day, I still have not. We were
Speaker 3: going to watch Spain play for the World Cup while
Speaker 3: actually in Spain. It was going to be amazing. My
Speaker 3: friends and I immediately went to our teachers, who we
Speaker 3: were on great terms with, and tried to figure out
Speaker 3: where we would be watching the final. We thought that
Speaker 3: this was a dream come true for us and them.
Speaker 3: What better cultural immersion for a foreign language class than this.
Speaker 1: Well, as it.
Speaker 3: Turned out, our itinerary was already set for that time.
Speaker 3: Our teachers had months beforehand scheduled a party cruise for
Speaker 3: all of us. It was meant to be a river
Speaker 3: cruise in Sevilla, where we'd get the chance to hang
Speaker 3: out with other people our age. I had never in
Speaker 3: my life argued to get out of a party more
Speaker 3: than I did for us to skip that cruise. My
Speaker 3: friends and I desperately tried to explain that there was
Speaker 3: no way that anyone would be on that boat during
Speaker 3: the final I honestly wasn't even sure it would be
Speaker 3: manned with a crew.
Speaker 1: In the way.
Speaker 3: Only Americans who don't understand that football is the world's
Speaker 3: sport could be. My teachers confidently asserted that plenty of
Speaker 3: people would be there, regardless of the game listeners they were.
Speaker 3: The total population of this river cruise turned out to
Speaker 3: be twenty five American high schoolers, three American high school teachers,
Speaker 3: one young American couple, two very upset bartenders. It was
Speaker 3: a dry cruise, and presumably the captain of this fine vessel.
Speaker 3: My friends and I spent the entirety of the cruise
Speaker 3: with the bartenders huddled around a radio, desperately trying to
Speaker 3: follow along with the game. We floated along the river
Speaker 3: seeing watch parties at beautiful luxury riverside homes go by.
Speaker 3: At one point, the captain slowed down as much as
Speaker 3: possible because one of these parties was projecting the game
Speaker 3: onto the side of a building. Those few minutes were
Speaker 3: the only part of the final that I ever got
Speaker 3: to watch. Then, of course, Spain won in the country erupted.
Speaker 3: If I thought the tournament was electric, this was something else.
Speaker 1: Entirely.
Speaker 3: We watched from our hotel rooms that night, as the
Speaker 3: partying never stopped on the streets below. Our tour guide
Speaker 3: and bus driver told us how they celebrated all night
Speaker 3: running through the fountains in the city. Since then, all
Speaker 3: I've wanted was for the US to experience that kind
Speaker 3: of energy. The love and excitement that can come from
Speaker 3: the sport is something I've truly never seen replicated elsewhere.
Speaker 3: I hope fervently that hosting this World Cup would do it,
Speaker 3: but I have to say I am not confident that
Speaker 3: it will. Maybe one day.
Speaker 5: Best William, amazing, amazing, that's so such a great way
Speaker 5: to watch slash.
Speaker 1: Listen to the final. Oh god, this is the absence
Speaker 1: of it, just like the longing. You know you can
Speaker 1: see from the boat, but you're just like that far
Speaker 1: offshore and you can't leave, and you're a kid too,
Speaker 1: you know. And the bartenders with the dry cruise, Oh god,
Speaker 1: those poor guys. It's a fundamental and he's right. I
Speaker 1: feel bad for the teachers, but he's right to call
Speaker 1: him out because it's a fundamental misunderstanding of how this
Speaker 1: stuff works, you know. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember when the US women's national team won the
Speaker 2: World Cup back in nineteen ninety six, I think maybe
Speaker 2: ninety eight. I can't remember for sure, but in the
Speaker 2: nineties I was working at a ice cream shop outside
Speaker 2: of Moose Pass, Alaska, and when the final penalty kick
Speaker 2: went in and Brandy Chastain ripped off her shirt to celebrate,
Speaker 2: I went outside and I heard one horn honking, and
Speaker 2: then after a long moment of silence, I heard fuck yeah, America.
Speaker 2: And that was as close as I've ever come to that, William,
Speaker 2: That's as close as I've ever come.
Speaker 1: To that feeling. Wow. Yeah, I gotta say I'm very
Speaker 1: excited to watch the World Cup mostly from Boruta, mostly
Speaker 1: here in Columbia, because everyone's gonna be watching the World Cup,
Speaker 1: and it is different. It is different. I think the
Speaker 1: United States is so big and so vast and contain
Speaker 1: so many multitudes. There's in any monoculture anymore, and certainly
Speaker 1: none that embraces football and puts it at its very center,
Speaker 1: as often happens in other parts of the world. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a different experience. It's gonna be a different experience.
Speaker 1: I don't think we'll have that level. But maybe in
Speaker 1: New York, maybe in Philly, maybe in the cities that
Speaker 1: are hosting World Cup games, in Miami, in Atlanta. You know,
Speaker 1: you know, I I think if you just you need
Speaker 1: to seek out those places where people are going to
Speaker 1: watch the games. I remember I can remember which World
Speaker 1: Cup it was. It must have been twenty ten, watching
Speaker 1: the game in in a big plaza in front of
Speaker 1: City Hall in San Francisco, packed with people. It was
Speaker 1: a USA England game. Do you remember the game where
Speaker 1: Rob Green? Rob Green let the ball between his legs. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we watched that. Yah, yeah, yeah, that was rough. I
Speaker 1: watched that in a bar with some buddies. That was
Speaker 1: a fun game. It was a fun game. So, William,
Speaker 1: I think you are obviously now an adult who can
Speaker 1: make your own decisions abou where to watch the games
Speaker 1: and I would just do everything possible to watch them
Speaker 1: with friends and family or with people who have kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, emotional stake in the outcome of the games,
Speaker 1: you know, with different communities of folks, and that's going
Speaker 1: to be great. Just it's gonna be a great experience.
Speaker 1: I loved your story, William, Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: sharing that with us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thanks to everybody who writes in at away
Speaker 2: ndpod at gmail dot com. We love reading your emails.
Speaker 2: We'll be sure to read more of them on the
Speaker 2: air in the future. In the meantime, thank you to
Speaker 2: Daniel and Sean and Kurt.
Speaker 1: Are edited and producers for.
Speaker 2: All their work.
Speaker 1: And we'll see you next week. See you guys, MHM.