1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Mitch McConnell says impeachment ought to 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: be rare and that it's not good for the country. 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: I wonder what else is not good for the country. 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today, Democracy Dockets. 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Mark Elias joins us to talk about the latest voting 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: rights issues, including Ohio's Issue one. But first we have 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: the one and only Mary Trump Shows. 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: Mary Trump. 11 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, Mary Trump, Thanks. 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: Billy, How are you? I don't know. 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm actually in Europe right now and I'm 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: coming home tomorrow and I've been We've. 15 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: Been on quote unquote vacation. 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: But so because it was on vacation, I was at 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: a television studio doing a television hit because that's what 18 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: one does on vacation. 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 2: And producer was like, the. 20 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: Host goes like, well, I mean, this is history, this 21 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: is historic, and I was like, it's happened three other times. 22 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 2: This always happening. 23 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I We're all a little bit iner to this 24 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 3: at this point, I think, And that's. 25 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: A problem, right, And I'm talking about the new federal 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: indictment for Donald Trump, the one where we finally get 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: to see he's in trouble for doing all the stuff 28 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: we saw around the twenty twenty election. 29 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 3: Yes, almost three years later. It's troubling for a couple 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 3: of reasons. And I'm with you in the sense that 31 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 3: every time something like this steppens, I feel less. I 32 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: felt nothing about this indictment except okay, this could have 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: happened a year and a half ago. 34 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. 35 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 3: I didn't feel that it was anything to be happy about, 36 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: or solemn about or anything. So the problem there is 37 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 3: that it's just another way in which Donald manages expectations 38 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 3: in his favor. You see this with his all caps, 39 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: insane tweets. He says the most vile, vicious, violent things, 40 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 3: and people shrug and say, yeah, well, I mean, I 41 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 3: guess that's just what we would expect. If it were 42 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 3: anybody else, we would do something about it. But it's him, 43 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 3: so he keeps getting away with it, him pushing the envelope. 44 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 3: And by the same token, because this is the third indictment, 45 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 3: I now see people saying, well, this is so much 46 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 3: more serious than the other two. 47 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: Which is just false. 48 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: I mean, yes, it's incredibly serious, but you cannot tell 49 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 3: me that we know enough yet to say that the 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 3: stealing of national security doc classified national security documents is 51 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: a big deal. We don't know what he did anything 52 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: with them, if he did anything with them, if he 53 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 3: implicated anybody because he stole them and potentially showed them. 54 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: To our enemies or what have you. 55 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 3: And I'm also really tired of people referring to the 56 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: New York case as. 57 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: You know, hush money. 58 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 3: It was an attempt at election fraud and potentially successful 59 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 3: attempt at election fraud. So you know, it's once again, 60 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 3: none of it's cumulative. It's like, oh, well, this terrible 61 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 3: thing happened and has been replaced by the next terrible 62 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 3: thing that happened and has been forgotten. 63 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: And yeah, and that's that's also one of his strategies. 64 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: It's, you know, just flooding the zone, which is I 65 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 3: guess what Steve benn And has counseled him to. 66 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: Do time and time again. 67 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: It's funny though, because it's like, so here, you are 68 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: trained psychologist and also niece of the defendant, do you 69 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: find like the thing I'm struck by with him is 70 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: that he is like, it's almost and it's funny because 71 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: it's like, I. 72 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: Come from a crazy kind of. 73 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: Family, not quite not quite as ethically so as you. 74 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: But do you feel like what you're seeing here is 75 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: a person who has been able to really run roughshow 76 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: through American democracy. 77 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, just as he's run roughshot over everybody. 78 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been allowed to his whole life. And that's 79 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: the problem here. 80 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 3: I don't give a shit about Donald anymore in the 81 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 3: sense that I haven't for a long time felt that 82 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: he was the problem. The problem is anybody who enables him. 83 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: Do I feel that he has deteriorated? Yeah, I do. 84 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 3: I think that his impulse control is very compromised. But 85 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 3: we also have to remember that sometimes it is just strategy. 86 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 3: One of his negotiating strategy used to be to come 87 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 3: into a boardroom when a deal was about to be 88 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 3: signed and actually throw a temper tantrum until the other side, 89 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: which was pressed by time constraints, agreed to a deal 90 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 3: that was less in their favor than the original deal 91 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 3: he'd agree to. You know, so a lot of what 92 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: he's doing is just throwing temper tantrums. Okay, that's what 93 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 3: he does. Is it strategic or is it simply because 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 3: he's decompensating. I don't care. What I care about is 95 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 3: a legal system that allows him to endanger the lives 96 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 3: of potential jurors, prosecutors, judges, and their families. What the 97 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: fuck is happening? 98 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 2: Like? 99 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: Why is he allowed to engage in the kind of 100 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,119 Speaker 3: rhetoric that gets people killed? 101 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: It seems like to me he is both diminished and inevitable. 102 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: No, I love that. I mean, I hate it. 103 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: But it's brilliant, right, I mean, that's the thing I'm 104 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: struck by. It's like he doesn't have the same power 105 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: he used to. You know, it used to be he 106 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: would tweet about you and you would get one hundred 107 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: death threats, right, you'd have people going into hiding. I mean, 108 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: I don't And again I'm not saying that that that, 109 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: you know, what he does do now is somehow better. 110 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: It's just that he doesn't have the same kind of army, 111 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: largely because a lot of those people went to jail 112 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: and they have actually been punished. But it's just interesting 113 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: to me because so you know, you saw that. I mean, 114 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure you saw the video of him with this 115 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: second federal indictment. And it's just him and one other person. No, 116 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: you know, none of the kids, none of the pomp 117 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: you know, just this sort of seventy seven year old 118 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: man going in for his third indictment, and yet he 119 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: is crushing everyone else in the polls. And Republicans are 120 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: you know, you see Mitch McConnell, who is you know, 121 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,559 Speaker 1: the man who made all his dreams come true, stole 122 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: three Supreme Court seats for him being booed and screamed that. 123 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 2: He should retire. 124 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, this is this is the bed the Republican 125 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 3: Party has made for itself. And what I find fascinating, 126 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: and they deserve every all of it, for sure, Yes, 127 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: of course, exactly what I find fascinating is their lack 128 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: of ability to see beyond their own egos, their own narcissism, 129 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 3: and their own short term victories. And I think part 130 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 3: of that is because their goal is to destroy American 131 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 3: democracy now, because this may be their last attempt for 132 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 3: them to claim to cling to power, no matter how illegitimately. 133 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: But somebody like Dessantis, if he could get out of 134 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: his out of his own way, I would have understood 135 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: that the thing to do is wait or preferably the 136 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 3: candidates not Donald, would have understood that this is their 137 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 3: opportunity to change course and attack him as the pathetic 138 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 3: loser he is, and not just as loser personally, but 139 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 3: a loser for the Republican Party, because otherwise they risk 140 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 3: losing everything. You know, if they were willing to attack 141 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: him in the way he deserves to be attacked by 142 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 3: his opponents in the primary, they won't win the presidency 143 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, but it sets them up better 144 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 3: going forward, especially as there's no at the moment, no 145 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 3: lear successor to Biden, even though of course there should be, 146 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 3: but you know, racism and misogyny reign supreme in America. 147 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 3: That part's also just very weird to me that the reluctance, 148 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 3: because the base is the base, is what are they 149 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 3: going to do if Donald loses the primary or is 150 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: it running? 151 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: Are they just going to stay home? I don't think so. Right. 152 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: The thing that is such an interesting problem that Republicans 153 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: have now is they have this candidate who has lost 154 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: them every election since twenty sixteen, every single one including 155 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen except for a technicality, right exactly, and they 156 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: are pretty sure they're going to be okay, which, look, 157 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: maybe they will be. The electoral colleges is a funny thing. 158 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think that the thing that 159 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: it's been just so disappointing about these Republicans, and look, 160 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: I mean, there are so many things to be disappointed 161 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: with this Republican party, but the thing that I've been 162 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: strupt by is just how stupid they are. Like, you know, 163 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: everybody gets behind If they had found a normal candidate 164 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: and gotten everyone behind him like Democrats did in twenty twenty, right, 165 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: I mean they there was a moment where it became 166 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: clear that everyone was going to have to figure out 167 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,359 Speaker 1: who the most electable candidate was and get behind them. 168 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, even though a lot of 169 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: people loved Elizabeth Warren and a lot of people loved 170 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: Mayor Pete and this and that, they just were like, 171 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: we just have to get behind the guy who can win. 172 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: And the calculus was that Joe Biden was the guy 173 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: who could win. And so Democrats fell in line because 174 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: they did not want to lose. And I don't think 175 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: of Democrats as such mercenaries, but these Republicans are mass. 176 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, And as for twenty twenty, in Biden. I think 177 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 3: he was like my seventh choice in the primary. But 178 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 3: when it became clear right that he could win right well, 179 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 3: or that he was going to win the nomination for sure, 180 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: we fell in line, which you know, what's the expression, 181 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 3: Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love. For the 182 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: first time perhaps that ever, we fell in line because 183 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 3: we understood what was at stake. 184 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: And then I think it was. 185 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: The combination of the two, because Joe Biden is a 186 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: decent human being who cares about American democracy. You know, 187 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 3: he may go about trying to save it in a 188 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: way that I don't necessarily think is the most effective way, 189 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 3: but he's been the best president of my lifetime. 190 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: Well, I'm in London right now. They keep raising the 191 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: interest rates in this country. They are completely screwed. I mean, 192 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: we are. You know, we have banks saying that they're 193 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: going to lower you know, they're going to raise the projections. 194 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: Now they're not seeing a recession, they're seeing a soft landing, 195 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: and that was unthinkable two years ago. I mean, they're 196 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: building chips, they're building trains. I mean, they're not Our 197 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: inflation is controlled. I mean, I'm sorry, but if a 198 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: Republican had done this, I would be fucking impressed too. 199 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: I mean, it's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. 200 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: I do think that the Guide does not get a 201 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: ton of credit for any of that, and the polling 202 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: is still pretty scary. 203 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not going to pay attention to pulls quite yet, 204 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 3: although we always have to understand that the mainstream media 205 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 3: is not our friend and shockingly is not the friend 206 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 3: of democracy. Which it's weird because journalism needs a democracy 207 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 3: in order to strive. But I guess if the bottom 208 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: line is really the only thing you care about, you 209 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 3: don't really care about journalism either. But I think with 210 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 3: the Republicans, they continue to make the same calculus. Dat 211 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 3: don't need Trumpism so called, to scale because they're not 212 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 3: going after a majority. This is a policy free party 213 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:31,319 Speaker 3: of grievance, racism, misogyny, and anti immigrant hatred and increasingly 214 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 3: LGBTQ plus hatred. They have no ideas beyond cutting taxes 215 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 3: for obscenely wealthy people and dictating people. So I think 216 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 3: they must on some level understand that it's too late 217 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 3: for them to become a party of policy, so they 218 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 3: have to much like Donald does, they have to double 219 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 3: down on the things that turns most people off but 220 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 3: keeps enough people in the game fighting for them that 221 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 3: if they can just cheat around the edges, it might 222 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 3: be enough. You know, those electoral College numbers in twenty 223 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 3: sixteen and twenty twenty are the things that should be 224 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 3: keeping all of us up at night, because Joe Biden 225 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: didn't win by eight million votes. He won by like 226 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 3: seventy seven thousand or forty four thousand or some horrifyingly 227 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 3: tiny number. So I think that's why we see we 228 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 3: see them making the kinds of moves they're making in Ohio, 229 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 3: for example, and making it more and more difficult for 230 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 3: ballot initiatives that would get people to the polls for 231 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 3: Democratic initiatives harder and harder. They're making Alabama just to 232 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 3: all the Supreme Court to take a flying leap because 233 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 3: they are not going to change their congressional map, denying 234 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: Democrats at least one or two seats. That's what they're 235 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 3: going to keep doing because they know that's their only chance. 236 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 3: So I don't know that it's stupidity as much as 237 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: it's cravenness. And I mean it's stupid, like I think 238 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 3: that you know, you look at people like Jared Kushner 239 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 3: or Rodsentis or Mike Penz. Narcissism in its extreme form 240 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 3: makes you stupid. Yeah, you know the fact that Mike 241 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 3: Pence thinks that he can win the presidency, the fact 242 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 3: that Radescanthus thought this was the time for him to run, 243 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 3: these are just bizarrely idiotic moves, right. But I think 244 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 3: the larger issue with the word dangerous one is they 245 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 3: have no principal core principles. They have no they don't 246 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 3: care about American democracy. They only care about their own power. 247 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And it is kind of It's a pretty 248 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: stark realization. 249 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: So let me ask you. 250 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: I always feel like I hate to ask you this, 251 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: but I feel like you have an insight here. 252 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: Where does Cisco? What does he do? I think I 253 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: have an idea, but you tell me you think. I'm 254 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 2: very curious to see what happens tomorrow. 255 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 3: In the hearing, I thought it was a good sign 256 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 3: that the prosecution in DC flagged it for the judge 257 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 3: and that they made the decision to get a protective order. 258 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: I thought it was a good thing that the judge 259 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 3: denied Donald's team where they needed more time to respond 260 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 3: to I don't know. It's absurd denied his team's appeal 261 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 3: to have it delayed. So I'm very curious to see 262 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 3: what happens there, and then it's hopefully it's something serious 263 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 3: enough that it will put Donald in a situation position 264 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: of having to change his behavior. 265 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: I don't think he can anymore. 266 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think he'll continue to double down, 267 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 3: triple down, quadruple down on his egregious behaviors because at 268 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: some level he knows that's all he's got left. You know, 269 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,479 Speaker 3: he's nothing else to offer. It's just grift and grievance 270 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 3: and this pretense that somehow he's saving everybody else from 271 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: being pursued by the DOJ. I personally don't worry about 272 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 3: that because I haven't betrayed my country and I haven't 273 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 3: stolen classified. Maybe maybe his base has done things that 274 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 3: we're not aware, but you know, he's really the only 275 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 3: person who's whose future and freedom are on the line here. 276 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 3: But he knows what's worked because he's always gotten away 277 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 3: with it, and it will be very interesting to see 278 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 3: it for the first time in over seven decades. This 279 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 3: person is told this much and no more, and if 280 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 3: you cross that line, we'll see you in jail, right, 281 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 3: or you know, we'll ask you to put up a 282 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 3: balie of hundreds of a mill I don't know what 283 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 3: her I don't know what the recourse is here, but 284 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 3: I think he's already setting up this this dichotomy here. 285 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: Either I get to say whatever I want because First Amendment, 286 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 3: or I'm going to get persecuted for exercising in my 287 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: first Amendment rate to free speech and then martyred. I 288 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: think that's what he's banking on, and I don't think 289 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 3: he would be wrong quite honestly, Mary. 290 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: Trump, thank you so much for joining us. 291 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: You are the best. 292 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 4: Thanks Will I. 293 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: I'm really happy to be here with you. 294 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: Mark Elias is the founder of Democracy Docket. Welcome to 295 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. 296 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 4: Mark, thanks for having me. 297 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: Delighted to have you so at First, I want to 298 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: talk to you about something that when this podcast airs, 299 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: will be decided, though it seems like it's happening right now, 300 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: which is this Ohio vote. 301 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 5: Look, the Republicans as a whole in this country are 302 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 5: no longer a majority party, and they know that they 303 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 5: no longer actually in most areas, seek to compete in 304 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 5: arena as. We're getting fifty percent of the vote is 305 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 5: enough to win. So if you think about their strategy 306 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 5: around the Electoral College or the Senate, it's all around 307 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 5: how do they win majority power with a minority of voters. 308 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 5: So it's it's no surprise that in Ohio, where Democrats 309 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 5: and Progressives put a pro choice ballot initiative on the ballot, 310 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 5: that the Republican reaction was to then try to change 311 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 5: the threshold for a ballot initiative passing from fifty percent 312 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 5: to sixty percent because they know they will lose in 313 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 5: a head to head on the choice issue where the 314 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 5: threshold is fifty percent. 315 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: So let's talk for a minute about what's happening in Alabama, 316 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: because we have a Republican state party which is going 317 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: against the Supreme Court, the very conspervative Supreme Court. 318 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, and by the way, under appreciate created in this 319 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 5: whole Alabama drama is the fact that the three judge 320 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 5: panel right the trial court, which is in this case 321 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 5: a three judge panel, is two judges appointed by Donald 322 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 5: Trump and one who was originally appointed by Ronald Reagan. Right, 323 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 5: So so it's really something. But Alabama is showing that 324 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 5: despite Chief Justice Roberts saying times have changed, you know. 325 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 5: That was his phrase in the Shelby County case. Apparently 326 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 5: times didn't change that much in Alabama. 327 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but I mean, is there any mechanism 328 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: to force them to make that district or now? 329 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 4: Yeah? 330 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 5: So look what happened is for those folks who have 331 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 5: not been sort of following this blow by blow, Alabama 332 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 5: created its congressional district. It created one majority black district. 333 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 4: It was sued. 334 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 5: My law firm was among those who brought the litigation 335 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 5: under the Voting Rights Act, saying that there needs to 336 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 5: be two majority black district A three judge panel, as 337 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 5: I pointed out, two of whom two judges of whom 338 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 5: were appointed by former President Trump, agreed there needs to 339 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 5: be a second majority black district. Alabama went to the 340 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 5: US Brief Court thinking they'd get relief from it there. 341 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 4: They didn't. 342 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 5: The Supreme Court upheld that there needed to be two 343 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 5: majority black districts. So Alabama, when the case came back 344 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 5: down and it was now time for Alabama to draw 345 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 5: two majority black districts, what did it do. It drew 346 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 5: one majority black district. The second closest to a majority 347 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 5: was thirty nine percent. So that's where things stand right 348 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 5: now in court. The next step will be that the 349 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 5: trial court will hold a hearing on August fourteenth to 350 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 5: see whether a district that is thirty nine percent is 351 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 5: greater than fifty percent, which the court will find it isn't, 352 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 5: at which point I think it's pretty clear the trial 353 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 5: court will have its own special master draw district. It's 354 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 5: already made preparations for its own expert called the special Master, 355 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 5: but it's essentially a professor who knows how to use 356 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 5: mapping software. And so I think the way this drama 357 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 5: ends in Alabama is the legislature gets to say it 358 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 5: defied the court's order and the court winds up having 359 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 5: its own expert drawing you. 360 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they've really had to twist Alabama's arm. 361 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's more than twist its arm. I mean. 362 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 5: The thing about the Supreme Court's decision in Shelby County, 363 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 5: when the Supreme Courts had times changed, is that one 364 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 5: of the things that Chief Justice said had changed is 365 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 5: that you no longer had these predominantly Southern states disobey 366 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 5: or violating court decrees. Well, that's what we've seen here, right. 367 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 5: It's Alabama was under a court order to draw a 368 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 5: to draw two majority black districts. And you know, as 369 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 5: I as I said, when they didn't, you know, that 370 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 5: wasn't an invitation, wasn't you know? They were in invited 371 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 5: to do it and they could either come to a 372 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 5: dinner party or not. They were ordered to do it, 373 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 5: And when you fail to comply with an order, that's 374 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 5: a serious thing. 375 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 4: But that's where we are. 376 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 5: States like Alabama don't want to comply with the Voting 377 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 5: Rights Act and are being forced to do so, which 378 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 5: looks a lot like times not having changed. 379 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: You, right, and also just super upsetting as a person 380 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: who lives in democracy. So right now we are in 381 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: this run up to twenty four, we're seeing Republicans quietly 382 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: trying to sort of make it so their guy can win. 383 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: What are the things you're seeing that are really worrying? 384 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, So look, I think the way I describe it 385 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 5: is that Republicans are trying to make it harder to vote, 386 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 5: an easier to cheat. The harder to vote is the 387 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 5: voter supression liss. 388 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 3: Right. 389 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 5: We've seen them in state after state enact laws that 390 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 5: target black voters, other minority voters, and young voters by 391 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 5: throwing barriers up that are disproportionately aimed at them, either 392 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 5: because they taught target urban areas that tend to have 393 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 5: more Democrats, or because they target college campuses which tend 394 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 5: to have young voters who tend to be Democrats. So 395 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 5: we continue to see that, and that has been a 396 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 5: steady drum beat now since everyone will remember in two 397 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 5: thousand and one when Georgia passed it's omnipus voter supression 398 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 5: law in the Major League Baseball moved it's All. 399 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 4: Star game in Texas. It's right all that. 400 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 5: But the second part, though, I think molly, is the 401 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 5: part that I think people don't pay enough attention to, 402 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 5: which is that Republicans are trying to make it easier 403 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 5: to cheat. And what do I mean by that all 404 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 5: of these elections of version methods that they are engaged in. 405 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 5: What Donald Trump did in twenty twenty was he tried 406 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 5: to cheat, right at the end of it all, he 407 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 5: tried to cheat. And when you have fake electors, that's 408 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 5: just trying to cheat. And when you see election officials 409 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 5: at the local level, their office is being infiltrated by 410 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 5: these election deniers who are stealing data or otherwise in 411 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 5: gauge in those kinds of behaviors. They're just cheating. So 412 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 5: I think we need to be prepared not just for 413 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 5: voter suppression, but for this kind of election subversion that 414 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 5: unfortunately has become quite normalized in the Republican Party. 415 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem to me like that A lot 416 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: of the Trump defense now with these fake electors is 417 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, there's sort of almost like is democracy really 418 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: so great anyway? 419 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 4: Oh? 420 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think you see, you know, particularly 421 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 5: among the apologists for Trump in the legal profession, I mean, 422 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 5: you know, it's it is no surprise that when you 423 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 5: look at the the Trump indictment in BC, that at 424 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 5: least five and potentially six or six of the co conspirators, 425 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 5: the unindicted co conspirators were lawyers, and those lawyers and 426 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 5: others on the outside are pretty much saying, you know, 427 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 5: maybe this whole free and fair election thing isn't all 428 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 5: it's cracked up to me. 429 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 2: Right, that's in itself pretty shocking. 430 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 4: It is shocking. 431 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 5: It is unfortunate in so many respects, but it is 432 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 5: extremely dangerous for the future of our country, right, I mean, fundamentally, 433 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 5: if one of the two parties in a two party 434 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 5: system and one of the problems. People point to other 435 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 5: countries and say that there have been right wing parties 436 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 5: La penn in France or or you know whoever. But 437 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 5: those are multi party systems, so you know, those systems 438 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 5: can correct hopefully over time. But in a two party system, 439 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 5: when one of the two parties is essentially no longer 440 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 5: committed to democracy and you know, majoritarian rule, it's extremely 441 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 5: dangerous because how do you have how do you have 442 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 5: elections where inevitably Republicans are going to win sometimes where 443 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 5: the consequence of that may be these extremely anti democratic results. 444 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is so incredibly I mean, it just seems 445 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: like there's no way. I mean, right now we've sort 446 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: of relied on Democrats winning elections. But if God forbid 447 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. I mean, I think a lot about 448 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: those midterms because you know, I thought, if Carrie Lake 449 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: ends up being governor of Arizona, we will never have 450 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: another free and fair election in Arizona. You know, those 451 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: points will not go to whoever wins, They'll go to 452 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: the Republican. 453 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 454 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 5: I mean, one of the things that people may or 455 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,959 Speaker 5: may not know is, you know, in this country, in 456 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 5: order to take office, whether it's president, or Senate or House, 457 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 5: or governor or whatever, you need to be certified the winner, 458 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 5: and in most states the governor is integral to that. 459 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 5: For presidential the governor is integral to it in every state. Right, 460 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 5: these certificates that get sent to the National Archive and 461 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 5: get sent ultimately to the powders to be counted have 462 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 5: to be signed by the governor of the state. To 463 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 5: take a Senate seat has to be signed by the 464 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 5: governor and counter signed by the Secretary State. So I 465 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 5: think it is a real I think it was a 466 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 5: real risk with a carry lake, and a real risk 467 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 5: in the future that if you get an election deni 468 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 5: er in office, they simply will refuse to sign the 469 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 5: certification necessary for a Democrat to take an office. 470 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: Right, and you could see a place where Republicans then decide, 471 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: this is how we're going to do it. Now, you 472 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: were talking about Republicans cheating, what are the ways in 473 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: which they're cheating. 474 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 5: So, look, I think that they are cheating in a 475 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 5: couple of ways. First is, I would argue that the 476 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 5: shenanigans we've seen in Ohio of raising the threshold from 477 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 5: fifty percent to sixty percent or trying to do that 478 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 5: is in itself a form of cheating, right, It is 479 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 5: moving at election threshold in a way that is fundamentally 480 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 5: anti demotic. I think the more conventional sense of cheating 481 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 5: that people have are what the Republicans are doing around 482 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 5: the takeover of local election offices. This periodically jumps up 483 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 5: on the national radar screen, but because it's so diffuse, 484 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 5: because it's all localized at the county or subcounty level, 485 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 5: it oftentimes gets overlooked. But you know, we have whole 486 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 5: counties in America now that are administered by election and 487 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 5: we saw in the midterms as smoothly as they went otherwise. 488 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 5: You know, we my firm had to sue Coache's County 489 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 5: Arizona because Coache's carrier and Arizona was not going to 490 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 5: accurately count and certify election results. We had to sue 491 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 5: a county in Pennsylvania because it was refusing to certify 492 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 5: accurate election results. Those kinds of activities at the local 493 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 5: level are a form of cheat. And of course, you know, 494 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 5: I just have to add real quickly, there as an 495 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 5: article in pro Publica about the mass voter challenges that 496 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 5: we see Republicans engaged in states like Georgia, and that also, 497 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 5: I would argue as a former chief. 498 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say, what are you looking at now 499 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: as we are in this run up? 500 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 5: We are looking at the states that in twenty twenty 501 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 5: three seem to be being targeted by Republicans for new 502 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 5: voter suppression laws. 503 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 4: So in Idaho we saw a. 504 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 5: Law that targets only college students, I mean literally only 505 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 5: targets college students. In Ohio we saw a law of 506 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 5: the targets college students, but other groups as well that 507 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 5: tend to vote more democratic. We've seen Montana pass some 508 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 5: anti voting laws. North Carolina looks prepared to potentially pass. 509 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 4: New voter suppresson law. 510 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 5: So number one, we're kind of always looking out for that, 511 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 5: But number two, we're trying to We're looking at the 512 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 5: role of Trump supporting AGA extremists in the administration of 513 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 5: elections because our system of elections relies on large numbers 514 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 5: of local election officials and volunteers, and they have been 515 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 5: under attack for years now, and that system of local 516 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 5: election administration has been weakened, and so we are looking 517 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 5: at what we can do in a variety of ways, 518 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 5: including in court, to try to bolster local election administration 519 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 5: to make sure we have free and fair elections next year. 520 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is the only game in ten right, 521 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: free and fair elections. Mark, I want to ask you, 522 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: do you think that in twenty four that these litigations 523 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: are going to be sort of a regular thing. 524 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 525 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 5: I look, there was more there were more cases filed 526 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 5: in twenty twenty two than there were in twenty twenty. 527 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 528 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 5: Think about that, and I think that that will be 529 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 5: true in twenty twenty four. Both because Republicans every time 530 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 5: the demography of the country turns further and further against them, 531 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 5: they have to go to more and more extreme measures 532 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 5: to figure out how to win elections without a majority 533 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 5: of the vote. So that requires them to engage in 534 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 5: more and more extreme tactics. The other thing, though, Molly, 535 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 5: is we have to acknowledge is that Donald Trump faces prison. 536 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 5: I watch some of the things he says on TV 537 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 5: and his lawyers say on TV, and they think it's 538 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 5: some political thing. Donald Trump has been indicted in two 539 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 5: federal cases that if he's convicted in either of them 540 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 5: would normally and I think this instance would would carry 541 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 5: a term of incarceration. And Donald Trump is a self 542 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 5: preservationist above all else. So if he was willing to 543 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 5: go to extreme measures in twenty twenty, just imagine what 544 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 5: he'll be willing to do in twenty twenty four when 545 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 5: he thinks that the only way he of avoids that 546 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 5: is by winning the White House in pardoning. 547 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 548 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: Well, and also we've seen the very few we've seen 549 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: Republican senators who aren't even running for president going all 550 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: in on I mean, Jade Vance tweeting about how you 551 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: know these cases against Trump are cases against the First Amendment? 552 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 6: There is almost no one saying left in that part. 553 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 6: I play this game with folks sometimes. Think of the 554 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 6: most moderate republic the most pro democracy Republican you can 555 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 6: in the Congress. That person voted against the John R. 556 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 6: Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act. That person voted against the 557 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 6: Freedom to Vote Right. For all of the talk about 558 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 6: Republican moderates, where are they, I mean, on democracy, they 559 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 6: don't exist. There are a handful of Republicans in the 560 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 6: House who have f ratings with the NRA. There are 561 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 6: none of them, zero who voted for any of the 562 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 6: pro voter bills, including the Voting Rights Restoration Law or 563 00:32:59,160 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 6: the Freedom to vote. 564 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, unbelievable. Thank you, Mark. 565 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 4: I hope he'll come back anytime. I loved him. No 566 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 4: moment o. 567 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, I drunk fast. 568 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: Donald Trump had a little afternoon rally this afternoon, and 569 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: who the crazy was more crazy than usual? 570 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 2: I feel like, I mean. 571 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: I just think that with Donald Trump, we constantly see 572 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: him doing this same stick and he's doing it now. 573 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: He did it on Hillary Quintin. He continually does it 574 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: for whoever he's in competition with, and now he is 575 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: turned his sights to Fanny Wellis. During this speech, he 576 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: said a lot of lies about Fanny Wellis and they 577 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: were gross and they were racist, and they were disgusting. 578 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: And that is who Donald Trump is, and that is 579 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: who he has always been. And for that little vignette 580 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: is our moment of Fuckery's for this episode of Fast Politics. 581 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the 582 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos. 583 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to 584 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks 585 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: for listening.