1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Now, this is a crazy one, and I think it's 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: fair to say that there are some episodes that really 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: stick with us. You don't always find the answer, but 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: sometimes you find a clear problem. And it's true Uncle 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: Sam keeps no track of how many people go missing 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: every year, every day in national parks. I mean, to 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: be fair, is there a budget for that? You know, 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, there's gotta be a waiver, you sign, there's 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: there's signs with the skull and crossbones. You enter at 10 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: your own risk. It's kind of on you. But you know, 11 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: there's often times people take advantage of that, and there's 12 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: foul play as well. Guys. Guys were talking about some 13 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: of the most beautiful places on Earth, Glacier National Park, Yosemite. Man, 14 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: how are people going missing in these parks? And why 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: Some people might be committing something called pseudo side or 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: attempting to fake their death and start a new life. 17 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: Some people might be victims of foul play. And there's 18 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: some crazier theories out there as well. Gosh, when do 19 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: we do this? Originally we we first did this episode 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: and then we interviewed later the America's Authority on the 21 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: statistics here. Yeah, this is almost exactly six years ago 22 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: that we recorded this episode. Wow, our old anyhow, this 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: is our classic episode missing in national parks. It is real, 24 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: it is true, and we hope you enjoy it. Stay 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: safe out there. From UFOs to psychic powers. Since government conspiracies, 26 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: history is riddled with unexplained events, you can turn back 27 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 29 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: name is Noel. I am Ben. You argue hopefully, and 30 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 31 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: Let's let's get into this with a personal story first. 32 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: Do you guys have any experiences and parks. Yeah, I've 33 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: been to several national parks with the family over the years. 34 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: Took a trip out to the Grand Canyon which was 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: really nice with a couple of friends. Never um, never, 36 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: never done anything insane though at these places usually it's 37 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: just hiking on, you know, for a day and then 38 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: go back to a campsite, or just go back to 39 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: the car and heading home or to a hotel. Actually, 40 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: in my my hometown, outside of my hometown, Augusta, Georgia, 41 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: there is a national park called Finnasy Swamp Nature Park, 42 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: and I had something of a spiritual awakening there. Let's 43 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: say there's a little area where you walk out onto 44 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: this dock um, this kind of like winding bridge that 45 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: goes over the swamp, and you end up on this 46 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: sort of like floating little pier out in the middle 47 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: of the swamp, and it's just like covered neon green, 48 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, muck, And there were just thousands of tiny 49 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: little blue insects that they call no sums, you guys 50 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: know what these in the South. I'm not sure what 51 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: they call them elsewhere, but they're they're very tiny, and 52 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: they are blue, and they are very easy to breathe in. 53 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: And they were just clouds of them all around my head, 54 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: and every time I breathed in, I felt like they 55 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: were there going inside me. Did they it's probably a few, Probably, 56 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: they're very small. Yeah, that's sort of derailed my spiritual awakening, 57 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: but it was beautiful aft to that point. So I 58 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: also have had experiences in parks. There is a park 59 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 1: here in George and the Atlanta metro area called Arabia Mountain. Yes, 60 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: I was just talking to a friend about that. So, 61 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: as she said, it looks like you're walking on the 62 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 1: surface of the moon. Yeah, it's it's different. It's part 63 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: of the basaltic extrusion that formed Stone Mountain, which is 64 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: another strange place to visit and also a park. Uh. 65 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: The reason that we're talking about this today is because 66 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: the US has an amazing system of public land. And 67 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: despite the political changes that the country undergoes every you know, 68 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: for eight or two or six years or whatever, regardless 69 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: of how the tied shifts, people seem to in general 70 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: as a culture respect and want to keep this stuff wild. 71 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 1: And every so often you'll hear stories about uh, government 72 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: agencies privatizing it or allowing businesses to do this that 73 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: or the third there. But the fact remains, Uh, the 74 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: fact remains that the U. S National Park System is 75 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: an amazing institution. I almost got to go on a 76 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: road trip to Yellowstone when I was in high school. 77 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: My parents wouldn't let me go because the trust the 78 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: guy and slightly older guy. We knew who would be driving, 79 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: and they were pretty sure that we were going to 80 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: do a lot of drugs, try to sleep around with 81 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: some fellow campers and stuff, all of which but I'm 82 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: sure would have been true had I gone. But had 83 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: I gone, I would also be one of the proud 84 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: visitors to the first ever national park in the US, 85 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: which is Yellowstone, right, founded by Alysses Grant on March one, 86 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy two. It actually predates the National Park Service, 87 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: not to be confused with Jellystone, which which clearly derived 88 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: you know its name from Yellowstone. Absolutely, yeah, that's all 89 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: it's coming together. So noel, the National Park Service has 90 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: been said Yellowstone predated the actual National Park Service because 91 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: that was created by Woodrow Wilson on August twenty five, 92 00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen, several several years after Yellowstone was established. Circle 93 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: Woodrow Wilson's from my hometown of Augusta, Georgia. Whoa crazy? 94 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: The Woodrow Wilson boyhood home is historic site. There have 95 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: you been there? Name doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. 96 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: It's fun to stay it is. Do you think one 97 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: can only hope for the kind of success that makes 98 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: people reconstruct and preserve your boyhood home? Oh? Man, wouldn't 99 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: that be great? People will be so unimpressed with mine 100 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: really is born in a year? No? No, all right, 101 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: so we have a It would be cool though. There's 102 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: plenty of room for a your or nomadic existence in 103 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: the National Park System today, Ladies and gentlemen, this is huge. 104 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: It has four and ten areas and when there's a 105 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: reason we use the word areas. And there are more 106 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: than eighty four million acres all told. Yeah, and this 107 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: goes throughout every state in the contiguous United States. The 108 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: content mental us and expands out to the District of Columbia, 109 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: which is still inside the United States but not exactly 110 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: a state. Uh, the American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, and 111 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: even the Virgin Islands. And it was why are we 112 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: calling these areas just parks? So some of them aren't 113 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: exactly parks. Right. You've got something like a monument that's 114 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: been erected somewhere. The surrounding area of that monument might 115 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 1: be considered an area of a of the National Park System. 116 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: Let's say a battlefield where a battle from the Civil 117 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: War took place. Something like that. That isn't necessarily a 118 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: park of any kind in itself, for a nature preserve, 119 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: but the area needs to be maintained. Yeah. This also 120 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: includes lake shores, seashores, scenic rivers, trails, and oddly enough, 121 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: the White House. Yeah, the White House. The area of 122 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: the White House is also considered one of the areas 123 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: under the purview of the National Park Service. So like 124 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: when they mow the lawn at the White House, those 125 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: are like our I feel like trying to get away, like, well, yeah, 126 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: we'll do put the lawn mowing and under here. That's 127 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: where the budget will come from. Perhaps perhaps, or perhaps 128 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: if you work for the Park Service you can write 129 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: in and tell us a little bit about that. Either way, 130 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: this is a runaway success. In two thousand and fifteen alone, 131 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: how many people went to National parks was upwards of 132 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: three hundred and seven million. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a 133 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: ton of people's. It's a son of people. And um, 134 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: this isn't something we really discussed in advance, but bringing 135 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: it up to the modern day, um, pretty interesting story. 136 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: I heard NPR a few weeks ago, specifically about Joshua 137 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: Street National Park, and it applies to pretty much all 138 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: of them. How there are so many historic structures at 139 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: these parks, like from cabins to just different, um, different 140 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: buildings that are falling into horrible disrepair, not to mention 141 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: the amount of money and effort it requires to maintain 142 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: the grounds, cutting back foliage and things like that and 143 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: just you know, just you own a house man, you 144 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: know how much of a pain it is just to 145 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: keep up your yard. Can you imagine having to do 146 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: it for acres and acres and acres of National park land. 147 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: So apparently these parks today have these intense lists of 148 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: problems and things, but there's just not enough money to 149 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: cover the cost. Well yeah, I mean, like you said, 150 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: it's crazy expensive, and I guess when you're looking at 151 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: a budget, it might be difficult to you know, convince 152 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: someone that this is where a priority is. Yeah. The 153 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: National Park Service is part of the Bureau of the Interior, 154 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: and for following you know, the budgetary money. Uh, it's 155 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: composed of more than twenty two thousand employees paid employees 156 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: and two hundred and twenty thousand or so volunteers. Wow, 157 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: that's that's who gets the work done. And I just 158 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: found the statum from the story. I just wanted to 159 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: throw this out there and we can go, Um, there 160 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: is a, according to to this m p R piece, 161 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: nearly twelve billion dollar maintenance backlog of work that needs 162 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: to be accomplished, but there just isn't the money in 163 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: the budget for the park. So I just thought that 164 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: was interesting. I mean, some people would say that the 165 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: the US is lucky that the parks still exists. Other 166 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: people would say that there's something completely different to this story, 167 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: that there's something different going on. And we'll get to 168 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: that in just a moment, but first a quick words. 169 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So out of the what 170 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: was it, no? Upwards of three hundred and seven million, 171 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: seven two seven thousand precise, So you've got the number. Yeah, 172 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: Well three of those were US and listeners. Odds are 173 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: that some of those people were also you. And if 174 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: you're like many of these people, you visit for a day, 175 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: hike a few hours, maybe a weekend, maybe take a 176 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: couple of weeks and go down a river, or get 177 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: really into some strange throw Walden stuff and or Emerson stuff. 178 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: And then sometimes people just don't come out at all. 179 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: People disappear in national parks, and they disappear for different reasons. 180 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: There are some people who disappear who do it on purpose. 181 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I just don't want to live off I 182 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: don't want to live on the grid anymore, right, I 183 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: mean I've had that inclination a couple of times in 184 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: my life. I think we all have there's something so 185 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: tempting about just you know, disappearing walking into the forest, 186 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: never to return, hopping a train to the great horizon. 187 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 1: You know, I have to admit, when we started this 188 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: show back in oh eight, when we started production, uh 189 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: midway through two thousand nine, I really felt like, oh 190 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: my gosh, dude, we have to get off the grid 191 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: right now, all of us, anyone who is awake right 192 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: now needs to leave, go to the woods and just 193 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: learn how to farm. They make it really difficult for 194 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: you to do that, just I mean, just in terms 195 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: of like dealing with city government, you know, logistics. I mean, 196 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: I actually saw the story court rules living off the 197 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: grid is illegal out of Cape Coral, Florida, where basically 198 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: someone has sort of like a tiny house situation out 199 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: in the woods and um unplugged for municipal services, and 200 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: that was ruled by a court in Cape Coral to 201 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: be illegal. Um, a magistrate judge actually said that this 202 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: individual is not allowed to live on our own private 203 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: property without being hooked up to the city's water systems 204 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: and health and human And that's the thing. There's always 205 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: some some reason, you know, and I think it's absurd, 206 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: but um, it's interesting, and you know that hands maybe 207 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: disappearing is the only way to do it right, and 208 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: we'll we'll do an episode about how to disappear if 209 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: we have it yet. It's pretty fascinating. I think Stuff 210 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: you Should Know did a piece about living off the 211 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: grid if you would like to check that out listeners. 212 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: So for people who willingly disappear, people who become modern hermits. 213 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: There's an example of a guy named Daniel Solo Swalo 214 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: who quit using money in two thousand and then moved 215 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: to some canyons near a place called Arches National Park. 216 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: And he's been living in these different caves, tucked into 217 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: these nooks of sandstone. Uh and he just doesn't want 218 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: to practice anything related to money. You can read some 219 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: great um you can read some great stories about him 220 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: on the Atlantic, and of course, uh an internet search 221 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: will show you some of his various trials, travails, his 222 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: ups and downs. There's a great article on the Atlantic 223 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: that you shared Ben that it kind of goes through 224 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 1: his beliefs almost and why he's doing it. It's it's 225 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. Talks a lot about capitalism and and oh, 226 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: some people temporarily reside in national parks. Such as members 227 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: of the Rainbow family gatherings, you know, which is another 228 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: fascinating topic. And in either of these above cases, yes, 229 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, it is absolutely possible that some individuals 230 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: in these situations may be running from the law or 231 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: from other institutions, maybe an abusive spouse, or in some 232 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: cases breaking it. Because let's say you're an active you're 233 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: an active member of a militia, or your a felon 234 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: who is on the run with some priors, you can disappear. 235 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: It's way easier to disappear in America than people make 236 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: you think. It's not easy eat by any stretch, sure, 237 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: and it's much easier to disappear in let's say, oh 238 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: Woods or an isolated area than it would be in 239 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: the middle of the city where you have to go 240 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: procure things or something. Yeah, they mentioned all the closed 241 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: circuit cameras that exist in a situation, traffic cameras, things 242 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: like that that aren't out there. You know, you might 243 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: have the occasional park ranger snooping around, you know, trying 244 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: to make sure you're not stealing any picnic baskets. But 245 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: you know, barring picnic basket theft, probably we're gonna we're 246 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: gonna get into some pic nic basket theft. So, for instance, 247 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: some people might move nomadically from one site to the next, 248 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: people who travel for alternative community or intentional community kind 249 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: of gatherings, but they might still have little interaction with 250 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: the mainstream world, which the rainbow gatherings is referred to 251 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: as Babylon. I need to learn more about the rainbow gatherings. 252 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: You can go. I'm sure they'd be happy to see you. 253 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: I might have to try it out, guys. A lot 254 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: of hula hooping, right, I imagine there's some hula hooping involved, 255 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: probably not competitive though it's just hula hooping for hula 256 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: hooping sake. They don't seem like the most competitive group 257 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: of people. But if anybody's been to a rainbow gathering, 258 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: we'd like to hear about it, right with your experience, 259 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: I am teasing. I have always just in the past 260 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: associated it with like um news, people that like follow 261 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: bands or something like like the graf being sort of 262 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: that same kind of scene. But I could be entirely wrong, Oh, 263 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: I could totally I could completely see that. So in 264 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: those cases, people might have a largely off the grid 265 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: or disappeared life, but interact with the mainstream world sporadically 266 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: or as needed. And this goes to the picnic basket example. Yes, 267 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: this goes to the wild Man of Central Maine. His 268 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: real name is Christopher Thomas Knight. Again, awesome article on 269 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: this dude. I think it's in g Q. Yes, Uh, 270 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: it's okay. So I just want to say, first off, 271 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: this guy I kind of want to be him. But 272 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 1: then as you continue reading on, no, no, maybe not, 273 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: Maybe that's a bad idea. Uh. This gentleman when he 274 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: when he was twenty years old, just took off into 275 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: the woods. He said it was around the time because 276 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: he didn't know what year it was when he was 277 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: asked by the people who apprehended him, eventually he was captured. Yes, 278 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: so this guy was living in the woods, and what 279 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: he would do is he would break into let's say 280 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: a cabin that's on property somewhere with people camp seasonally, sure, exactly, 281 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: and just take whatever he could from there, or break 282 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: into let's say, you break into a yurt or you know, 283 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: a larger facility where food is stored, and would break 284 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: in there, take what he needed and then continue on 285 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: and possibly even like a shed where they keep um 286 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: boats or things like that, or like equipment. I mean 287 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: the guy, the guy was pretty masterful with tools, being 288 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: able to get into things, and you know a lot 289 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: of times keys are stored in a place like that 290 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: where it's a facility used by a park service or 291 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: he was legendary in the area. He was known as 292 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 1: a well man of central Maine, as mentioned before. When 293 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: he was arrested and finally hot he was sentenced to 294 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: seven months in jail and probation and at the time 295 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: of this recording, he is slowly rehabilitating into society as 296 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 1: a brother. Yeah, what was the story though when he 297 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: when he was when he was discovered, was he just 298 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: like he had to kind of be reintegrated more like 299 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: ultimately he just was not He had not been around 300 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: people at all first, and they suspect that he may 301 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: uh that he may be somewhere on the Asburger's autism spectrum, 302 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: but there at this point, I don't know if that's 303 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: confirmed or if it's just the amount of time living 304 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: in a solid in such solitude that has affected his 305 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: behavior in a way that they might confuse with that. 306 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: Do we know what led him to this life? Was 307 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: it homelessness with I mean, I'm I'm interested. I don't 308 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: believe it was homelessness. Uh, this this decision though it 309 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: seemed like it was a snap and Pulse maybe had 310 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: just had it with people, like when Forrest Coomp just 311 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: wanted to run right right, or when everybody in the 312 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: r M video just gets out of their car. That's 313 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: a powerful moment. I always think of that moment. One 314 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: time I did try it in a bad and bad 315 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: traffic I got out of my car and I stood there, 316 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: but no one. No one walked out with me. So 317 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: next time you're in traffic fakes, if you happen to 318 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: see noelan matter, I get out of a car, hop 319 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: out long enough to say hi. So the thing that 320 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: sticks with me about this story is the wild Man 321 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: of Maine, is that he was a legendary being that 322 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: existed in this area where people would talk about him, 323 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: would say, oh, you better lock up tight, you know, 324 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: the wild Man of Maine might be coming around or 325 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: drops yeah, don't leave anything out wild man amate And 326 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: then he became a reality, and he's a myth that 327 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: became real which never pretty never hurt anybody. We mean 328 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: that we know yeah, exactly, there's no evidence. So other 329 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: people have disappeared fatally in national parks. And these are 330 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: people you know, who break their leg in a remote place, 331 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,479 Speaker 1: take a bad fall, are murdered. Perhaps because again it's 332 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: an isolated area, droughting is huge, which ties into possibly 333 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: the Smiley Face Killer a different type of show naming 334 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: episode in the future. Some of these disappearances remain unexplained 335 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: to this day. There's a How Stuff Works article on 336 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: ten mysterious disappearances in national parks. Uh. Just for one example, 337 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: in a seventy three year old man named John Divine, uh, 338 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: mysteriously disappeared in the Olympic National Park in northern Washington State. 339 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: That's interesting because he's not the first hiker that's disappeared 340 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: from there. Over the past twenty five years. At least 341 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: four that we know of have disappeared. And yeah, and 342 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: he was with a friend when he went missing. Uh. 343 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: There there's a lot of strange stuff to his story, 344 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: that's right. So what's the cause? What? What is the 345 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: single cause or one of the causes? What are what 346 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: what's making this happen? What gives to answer that question? Uh? 347 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: We checked out some work recommended to us by you uh, 348 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: written by an author named David Politis. Yeah, and he 349 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: actually wrote a series of books about these disappearances of 350 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: the missing four one one series about different regions and 351 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: different situations. One is Western U s And Canada. There's 352 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: another one on the Eastern United States, one on North 353 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: America and beyond. Then there is one called The Devils 354 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: in the Details as well. And he's also written quite 355 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: a few books about the cryptid known as Bigfoot. Right. Yes, 356 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: that's something that in some cases will some sources feel 357 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: that damages his credibility, right, because for a lot of people, 358 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: if you write a thing about a cryptid, especially cryptod 359 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: of that size or that popularity, then they will tend 360 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: to look askance at any other work you do for 361 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: the record. In the Missing for one one series, while 362 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: Politis makes imply some stuff about a crypto, he never 363 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: says these people were clearly killed by yetti. So at 364 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,239 Speaker 1: some point when Mr Politis kind of got on this 365 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: route of wow, there seemed to be a lot of 366 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: people that go missing in national parks. Yeah, a park 367 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: ranger asked him to look into it, Yes, and he 368 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: tried to find more information, and he seemed to hit 369 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: a couple of brick walls. So it led him further 370 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: and further down this road of trying to explain what 371 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: happens to all these people and is there some kind 372 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: of common thread that links them together? Right? Have they 373 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: nailed down a theory? So here's some possible causes for 374 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: these rashes of disappearances in no particular order. First, as 375 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: we mentioned accidents, it's gonna happen. Let's let's walk through 376 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: these and the pros and cons of both. So, uh, 377 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: a pro at least in terms of the likelihood of 378 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: accidents occurring. The woods are huge, many people are not 379 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: familiar with them, and you're in isolated areas where a 380 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: slip on the path can make you break your leg, 381 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: or if you have a head injury and you're in 382 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: the backyard of nowhere, then it is it is possible 383 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: that that that could be it for you if you 384 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: don't have a method of contacting someone else. That's why, 385 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,959 Speaker 1: you know, if you go into a wilderness, you should 386 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: always always have at the very least someone back in 387 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: the civilization who expects to hear from you by a 388 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: certain amount of time. Yeah, but even that might not 389 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: save you because there these areas are so vast, and 390 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: one big con for the likelihood of accidents would be 391 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: that we know not all of these things are just 392 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: human error accidents. We there have been attacks, you know, 393 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: animals have attacked people, people have been murdered, you know, 394 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: bodies have been found mangled and stuff like that. You know, 395 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: I forgot. Actually another national park that I've been too 396 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: part of is a site in the Chattahoochee National Forest 397 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: um called Anna Ruby Falls, which is beautiful, glorious, but 398 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: you go there, there are a lot of little nooks 399 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: with signs basically saying don't step here or you will 400 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: die instantly. And you see it and you're like, yeah, yeah, 401 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: I would die, like that would happen. And I mean, 402 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: and it's like that all over these spots, and it's wet, 403 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: it's slippery, there's you know, a waterfall, and there's and again, 404 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: like I was talking about earlier, the infrastructure and some 405 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: of these spots not exactly up to par a lot 406 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: of times. So you've got to think that there are 407 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: opportunities for people to maybe be going into an area 408 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: after hoursing around, maybe they fell over a rail, maybe 409 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, a slat and a bridge broke. There's a 410 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: lot of possibilities. And I know they do try to 411 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: cordon off these areas where you can't get to them, 412 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 1: but people can be pretty tenacious. Heck, maybe they just 413 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: got lost. You know. That's one of the most terrifying 414 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: things is how easily someone can get lost in the woods. 415 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: It's not that search parties do a bad job, it's 416 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: just that the game is rigged. It's really difficult. So 417 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: another thing, another likelihood possibility. Animals you knows of attack people. 418 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: There aren't that many types of large animal that would 419 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: attack something like a person. Yeah, and it's gonna vary 420 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: per region where you're where you're talking about the the 421 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: animals out in California that you might have to worry 422 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: about are going to be a little different than the 423 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: animals you have to worry about if you're let's say 424 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: the Everglades in Florida, like how well like talking about 425 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: a bear, perhaps we're talking about a gator. Oh yeah, 426 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: out in Colorado. I just remember Joe Rogan talking about 427 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: an attack on his dog from I believe a mountain 428 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: lion or coyote or couis wolves as well. So we 429 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: know those creatures exist. We know that in some cases 430 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: they will attack human beings. One of the cons to 431 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: this is that animal attacks, as far as we know, 432 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: the official record seemed to be fairly rare in comparison 433 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: to other people. And then you know, you can often 434 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: find some sort of evidence, you know, bones or something. 435 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: As soon as you die, no matter how you die, 436 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: as soon as you die in the wild, there's an 437 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: army of creatures, scavengers, predators, microorganisms that fall upon the 438 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: sweet sweet buffet that used to be you. Nat your 439 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 1: eyes and your tongue and your other soft parts. And 440 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: then other people come in and excuse me, other creatures 441 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: come in your pile of bones in a nifty north 442 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: face jacket. That last personal detail, I guess we didn't 443 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: need to add another. Like I was just, I was 444 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: just I got stuck on sweet sweet buffet that used 445 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: to be you. It's like that. Apparently a lot of 446 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: times they start with your feet. Oh yeah, I was 447 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: reading an article about like the bacteria in feet is 448 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: pleasing to carry in. I'd always heard even more disturbing, 449 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: perhaps that they start at your soft bits like your face, 450 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: your tongue, your genitals. Well, there there are other possibilities 451 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: besides that, which would be crime. Oh yeah, a drug 452 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: deal gone bad. This makes me think of the fantastic 453 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: episode of The Sopranos called The Pine Barrens, wherein I 454 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: kind of forget what happens exactly what the crime was, 455 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: but somebody ends up getting it. So the Pine Barrens 456 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: are actually, um, they're for too as several different things. 457 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: The Pinelands and New Jersey pine Lands are a National 458 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: park area in New Jersey that is about one point 459 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: one million acres, just to give you the scope of 460 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: some of these types of areas. And like I said 461 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: in the episode, the whole crux is that they are 462 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: trying to hide a body, and it's clearly considered a 463 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: pretty solid place to do a thing like that. You know, yeah, 464 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: you've heard the I mean you out there have probably 465 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: heard the Pine Barrens mentioned in pulp fiction and other 466 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: uh not the movie pulp fiction, just throughout pulp fiction. Uh, 467 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: when involving the mafia, especially in New Jersey. Yeah, it's 468 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: a seems like a prime spot, although that would not 469 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: account necessarily for missing visitors. You know, what were you 470 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: saying then about like some drug deals gone bad? Like 471 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: maybe that's where they would meet to do the drug 472 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: deal because it's such a rural area where there's maybe 473 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: not gonna be many people around. Something goes bad, nobody 474 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: ever leaves. Some an accident happens on a camping trip. 475 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: You want to fake your death or you want to 476 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: commit suicide. You want it to be a new person, 477 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: which we should do that episode here. Another thing to 478 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: think about here is abduction, like child abduction. Uh. There 479 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: was one ace in that article, the house stuff Works 480 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: article that tend mysterious disappearances. A kid believe it believe 481 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: his name is David Gonzalez. Uh. He was he was 482 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: going to his car to get some cookies out of 483 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: the car. Mom was like fifty yards away, and then 484 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, kids gone. Can't find them, and 485 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: I think they saw a truck like leaving really fast 486 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: out of the park area. But anyway, it's just that 487 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: kind of thing. That kind of thing must happen, right. 488 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: It seems like a perfect place to target someone who's 489 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: isolated and not in their own element. Right. And the 490 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: thing here is that whatever these causes, maybe paul I 491 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: D's uh does not specifically trace it to one thing 492 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: yet that they say they're narrowing down suspects. Whatever the 493 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: cause of this may be. Uh. This author and his 494 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: supporters argue that there are clusters of information here three 495 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: types of clusters, one in cluster in terms of geography, like, 496 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: for instance, UH, Yosemite National Park is one of the 497 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: clusters that he sites, with forty six something disappearances occurring somewhere. 498 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: The bodies were later found somewhere nobody was recovered. He 499 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: also says that there are clusters in terms of chronology. 500 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: Certain times of the year or certain years people seem 501 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: to discipline more frequently, and then there's a type of 502 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: person who disappears more frequently, the very young, the elderly, 503 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: And according to these books, UH, many times when people 504 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: are recovered they have some of the same um. They 505 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: have some things in common. For instance, they have wounds, 506 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: light wounds are clothing storn. They have little to know 507 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: memory of the event. They're located further than one would 508 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: imagine they could travel on their own. That being said, UH, 509 00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: Paul IDs believes there is a conspiracy afoot of some sort, 510 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: that the National Park is the National Park Service is 511 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: not being on the up and up right. Yeah, When 512 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: when he tried to get more information, as we mentioned earlier, 513 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: from the National Park System through Freedom of Information Act requests. 514 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: He seemed to be stonewalled a bit, at least that's 515 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: what he thought at first, until he realized, Wait, there 516 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: isn't a lot of good record keeping when it comes 517 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: to missing people in these areas. Um, everything as simple 518 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: as names and dates and times. It's just not It wasn't, 519 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: at least at the time being collected. And he also 520 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: claims that he had several Freedom of Information Act requests 521 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: that were denied when when he asked for more information. 522 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: At this point, uh, At this point, this author is 523 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: continuing their investigation into the possible causes of of these disappearances. 524 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: I will say that, given that there are more than 525 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: a thousands or so cases that he has catalogs, I 526 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: would say it's difficult to imagine that these are all 527 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: attributable to a single cause. I would go so far 528 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: as to say it's impossible that they're all the exact 529 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: same thing. I'm hesitant to say impossible, but I would 530 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: be surprised. I would buy a lot and probably I 531 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: would buy a lottery ticket. Yes, if it turned out 532 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: that kind of math works. So at this point, you no, 533 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: I don't buy That is like a rule of ben 534 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: bowl rule. No, I'll buy a lottery ticket from someone 535 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: who's a present. Fun. Now, have you ever gotten lottery 536 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: tickets as a stocking stuffer? I have me too. It's 537 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: really sad stocking stuff. Well, when you get a roll 538 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: of them and you win, you win another ticket from 539 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: a role Anyway, I'm sorry. The potential is there. Okay, 540 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: it may be tiny, but potential. So yeah, so we're 541 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: at a point now where this investigation, led by Polites continues. 542 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: Some of the more skeptical in uh the the world 543 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: of this conversation have pointed out that, of course there's 544 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: a reason it's called the wilderness. People get lost, people 545 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: get hurt, people miscalculate, people can unfortunately die, and that 546 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: can be a completely mundane explanation. However, Polites and other 547 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: investigators as well believe that there is something more afoot, 548 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: that there is a cover up on the part of 549 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam. So, without claiming to know what could or 550 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: could not be causing these disappearances, instead, the author does 551 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: say that there is an active stonewalling occurring. Is that 552 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: the crazy user, Yeah, that's a that's a very good point. 553 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: We want to know what you think do people disappear 554 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: in national parks? Is there? What do you think the 555 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: cause of it is? Do you think that there could 556 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: be some sort of cryptid involved To me, that's a 557 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: little bit tough to conjecture, especially if it's something that 558 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: would be the size of a primate, you know what 559 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: I mean? Can I give you a story about that 560 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: bench lead people's minds down this road here on the 561 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: website Vistamic Vistramic journeys dot com. This is a group 562 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: of people who have looked at the Missing four on 563 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: one books and kind of taken exact places where people 564 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: allegedly went missing and then taking a panoramic photo of 565 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 1: the spot where they supposedly went missing. And there's one 566 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: story on here about a dude named Christopher Tompkins who 567 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: was on an isolated road in Georgia walking behind several 568 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: other guys. They were working together, and one of the 569 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: other gentlemen claims to have turned around and Christopher was 570 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: no longer there. As they were walking along this road, 571 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: they ended up finding parts of his clothing. One of 572 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 1: his boots was where like right behind them. They found 573 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: some of his clothing on a barbed wire fence a 574 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: little ways away, and they found some more of his clothing, 575 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: another boot even further away from that, And this all 576 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: took place within a matter of minutes less than that. 577 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: And I know that's one of those situations where it 578 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: makes me kind of go, well, how in the heck 579 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: did that happen without something really big either carrying him 580 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: away unless he just got super excited and ran like 581 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: a large bird for instance, maybe or a drone. Yes, 582 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,959 Speaker 1: the possibilities stretched forward. You we would like to hear 583 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: from you, So let us know. Do you think these 584 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: people disappeared due to mundane causes? Do you think that 585 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: there is something um, something more organized at work. And 586 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: let's also keep in mind that given the in terms 587 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: of the number of people who attend these parks, relatively 588 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 1: few so far as we know, are actually going missing. 589 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: So let us know. And then if you just have 590 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: a story about something creepy that you have found in 591 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: a national park, were encountered, and you are comfortable telling us, 592 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear that too, it might make it 593 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: to the air. Speaking of listeners, I think it's time 594 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: for she shot at Conners. Our first shout out comes 595 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: from Augustina who says someone from Panama would like you 596 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: to talk about the Panama papers. Also a shout out 597 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: would be cool. Shout out to you, Augustina, and we 598 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: are on act surprised. Yes, as soon as it came out, 599 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: you know, all three of us were just attached to 600 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: our computers. Gasp. Second shout out goes to Evelyn Raoul, 601 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: a photographer who listens to the show while she's re 602 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: touching images. Quote, I think Tyson stole your opening. Go 603 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: listen to the opening of Star Talk. It sounds suspiciously similar. Mmmmmmm, yeah, 604 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't checked that out, but I 605 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: appreciate the tip and retouching images. Huh changing history once 606 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: the thing about Stalin the kids stays in the picture. 607 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: Of course, we're kidding evil and big shout out to 608 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: you and thank you so much writing I'm gonna check 609 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: out this Star Talk. The start talking out pretty about 610 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: it is good and I don't recall the theme, but 611 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: I need to give another listen. It's new to me. 612 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: You guys know, I'm I'm not out and about. Uh So. 613 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: Our last shout out of the day of the week 614 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 1: really goes to Simon. Simon wrote in uh to say 615 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: commenting on our A M A and above Top Secret. 616 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: So is us Gully, Harvey Oswald and the Illuminates with 617 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: their breakout hit Roswell. That ends well because we released 618 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: a picture of the four of us and we thought, hey, 619 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: this looks kind of like a band. Yeah, we were 620 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: around Scully like she was the lead and we were 621 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: the Illuminates. We're working on the mixtape. Yeah, simon, you 622 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: know we're working on the mixtape. You can pay for 623 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: it in uh, stolen Nazi gold or ben bucks or 624 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: ben bucks. Those two things, well, you gotta convert your 625 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: stolen Nazi gold to ben bucks. I mean, that's just 626 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 1: how the economy, the exchange right in your face. Actually 627 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: it's it's rigged. I can't believe we started out with 628 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: such an idealistic currency and then three weeks in we've 629 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: become the monsters we were fighting in the first become 630 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: the monsters we fought in the first place. Yeah, we're 631 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: mostly kidding about that, but if you would like a 632 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: shout out, let us know. If you'd like to see 633 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: that picture, you can find us on Twitter and it's 634 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: on our Facebook as well. I believe both of those 635 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 1: are conspiracy stuff. And if you want to hear every 636 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: podcast that Noel, Matt and I have ever ever done, 637 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: then check out our website Stuff they Don't Want You 638 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: to Know dot Com where you can hear those podcasts 639 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: for breath. And that's the end of this classic episode. 640 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 641 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 642 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 643 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 644 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: std w y t K. If you don't want to 645 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. 646 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,240 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at I heart radio dot com. Stuff 647 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: they Don't Want You to Know is a production of 648 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 649 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 650 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.