Speaker 1: Well, you know what time it is. It's time for
Speaker 1: another podcast, another episode of What Future, where I ponder
Speaker 1: the greatest mysteries the mankind, the human kind, i should say,
Speaker 1: has ever known, whereas human kind has man in it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to find a new word for that,
Speaker 1: unfortunately for everybody. Anyhow, as usual, I've been thinking about
Speaker 1: the Internet a lot. The Internet as an object of mystery,
Speaker 1: the Internet as a meeting point for the greatest minds
Speaker 1: of our generation and also the worst minds of our generation.
Speaker 1: Strangely enough, they're all there, just like in the real world,
Speaker 1: just like I R L. Are all gathering, conversing, talking
Speaker 1: about the days news and offering their viewpoints, all of
Speaker 1: which are terrible, no matter who they are, all bad viewpoints.
Speaker 1: I think we've all been there. I think you know
Speaker 1: who you are. I certainly know who I am. Anyhow,
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about the nature of the Internet and
Speaker 1: the people who are on and frankly the people who
Speaker 1: use it for profit. I don't know. I'd say for
Speaker 1: fun and profit, but I'm not really sure we can
Speaker 1: say that anymore. And Uh, it got me thinking about
Speaker 1: great journalists who cover influencer culture and the sort of
Speaker 1: world of influencers that exist now, which is I think
Speaker 1: has gotten It's quite diverse actually in a way, just
Speaker 1: all sorts of different levels of people influencing being influenced.
Speaker 1: So that of course led me to think about the
Speaker 1: journalists I know who are great at covering this stuff,
Speaker 1: and I thought of Rebecca Jennings, who is a senior
Speaker 1: correspondent at vox dot com and also has a blog
Speaker 1: about fashion, but her day job, uh, really is about
Speaker 1: reporting on some of the strangest and most influential influencers
Speaker 1: who have ever influenced and anyhow, So I thought, let's
Speaker 1: bring her on. Let's talk about what is going on
Speaker 1: out there, Let's talk about those strange pockets of the
Speaker 1: Internet that she is professionally chronicling every day. So Rebecca
Speaker 1: Jennings has joined the podcast for a chat about the
Speaker 1: future of influence. First off, thank you for doing this,
Speaker 1: of course, I should say, I really appreciate it. By
Speaker 1: the way, are you drinking red wine? Is that a
Speaker 1: glass of red wine? I am drinking red wine because
Speaker 1: let let me be clear, it is six pm, I'm
Speaker 1: off the clock, and I have to go to a
Speaker 1: bar right after this, so I'm pregaming. No dude, my
Speaker 1: way into my office where I record the podcast. There's
Speaker 1: a refrigerator in our garage because I'm behind my garage.
Speaker 1: This is way too much information for what I'm about
Speaker 1: to tell you. I grabbed a non alcoholic beer. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll just have an n A beer, like I don't
Speaker 1: need a drink. The whole time before that, I was
Speaker 1: like I should get a drink, And now that you're drinking,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've made a horrible mistake going in. Man,
Speaker 1: I'd like to, but the time it would take for
Speaker 1: me to actually go and retrieve a drink right now
Speaker 1: would be like you'd have to go to the bar.
Speaker 1: So but I was been thinking about how there's so
Speaker 1: much stuff to talk about with you that, so I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you doing it. How would you describe your
Speaker 1: coverage beat? You're at a dinner party. You're seated next
Speaker 1: to a person who's like, doesn't own an iPhone. They're
Speaker 1: like a flip phone person. Yeah, no, I know you
Speaker 1: think a flip phone is cool, so do I. Because
Speaker 1: the person was a flip phone who's like unaware that
Speaker 1: they could have a different type of phone. And then
Speaker 1: there's a person has a flip phone as like a status.
Speaker 1: Now this is the first person. This is the person
Speaker 1: who just has at the flip phone since and they're
Speaker 1: just rolling with it anyhow. They're fifty five years old there,
Speaker 1: they work in accounting, and you have to explain your
Speaker 1: job to them. Go ahead, what would you say? Not
Speaker 1: to put you on the spot, and how do you
Speaker 1: how would you describe it? No? No, totally. I mean
Speaker 1: the easy answer is like I would just say, like
Speaker 1: I write about internet culture, and you know, you you
Speaker 1: hear about all these influencers. Have you heard about I
Speaker 1: don't know this Kim Kardashian lady, She's she's one of
Speaker 1: the influencers, and there's a whole lot more of them.
Speaker 1: And they'd be like, so you, oh, you write about
Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian, but you don't write it. I mean you
Speaker 1: probably have written about Kim Kardashian, but right, but it
Speaker 1: would be sort of like, well, she kind of was
Speaker 1: the first version of this thing that's you know, very
Speaker 1: very prevalent. Now a lot of people are just making
Speaker 1: money online and I am covering the way they do
Speaker 1: that and the way that people interact online. That's pretty good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to use any like big buzzwords that
Speaker 1: would trip somebody like that up, like the creator economy. No,
Speaker 1: you know right well, the creator economy is over, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Isn't that dead? Isn't that that was? It was? Sure,
Speaker 1: there's there's always going to be people making money online
Speaker 1: and that's getting famous online, and that's all I care about.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting what you just said though, Actually, do
Speaker 1: you consider Kim Kardashian to be like the seed of
Speaker 1: this flower that has I want to say this flower
Speaker 1: there's blossom, but I'm not sure that's exactly how you
Speaker 1: describe it. Like, is Kim Kardashian's rise to fame the
Speaker 1: sap lane that has led to this forest of influencers? No,
Speaker 1: I just think that she's such a global icon. Like
Speaker 1: I'm not even saying that in like a positive way.
Speaker 1: It's just like people know who she is, even if
Speaker 1: they have a flip phone, and they are not doing
Speaker 1: that as some kind of statusy way. And I think
Speaker 1: her rise totally correlates to the rise of social media,
Speaker 1: which is like basically what I cover. Um, But I
Speaker 1: mean I would also argue that, you know, Paris Hilton
Speaker 1: before her is is a good example of the kind
Speaker 1: of tabloid internet bloggy culture that started in the two
Speaker 1: thousands or that early two thousand's, And then I think
Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian and you know, to an extent, her family.
Speaker 1: Really really we're one of the first people to like
Speaker 1: capitalize stratospherically on this idea that you don't need to
Speaker 1: go through the traditional media or even blogs in order
Speaker 1: to be famous. You can just go directly to the
Speaker 1: people on Instagram, to the people. It's very democratic, it's
Speaker 1: really very beautiful. Actually, it's we really like level the
Speaker 1: playing field. You could say, we've almost socialized it. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everything's perfect now, no notes, everything, everything is perfect, and
Speaker 1: like all of the money making opportunities are very permanent
Speaker 1: and long lasting career decisions if you're fairly distributed. Yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: definitely fairly distributed. What's interesting actually about your beat is
Speaker 1: there are these megap like a Kim Kardashian or like,
Speaker 1: what's the most popular influencer that you can think of
Speaker 1: right now? Give me like a name. God, Like it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be the absolute top, but like, who's
Speaker 1: somebody who's like a household name from an influencer perspective, like,
Speaker 1: but on the Internet, I think the real answer for
Speaker 1: you is probably someone like Mr Beast and R Like,
Speaker 1: I think that is the biggest most influential Internet person
Speaker 1: right now, Mr Beast And for those who don't maybe
Speaker 1: don't know, and I don't know who would be listening
Speaker 1: to my podcast and not know. But Mr Beast is
Speaker 1: a YouTuber. He's like a regular white guy from right
Speaker 1: isn't pretty pretty much and he's famous for what what
Speaker 1: is he famous for? What is it? What do people
Speaker 1: like about him? Basically, he's a YouTuber. He pulls a
Speaker 1: lot of big, flashy stunts where he pranks, a lot
Speaker 1: of pranks, a lot of big like you know, he
Speaker 1: made a fake version of Willy Wonka's chocolate factory, and
Speaker 1: you know, and the Squid Game, Like he pulled a
Speaker 1: stunt where he got all these like extras, like extra actors.
Speaker 1: So he recycles culture is a guy who's like, remember
Speaker 1: that thing that happening, culture, I did it again, but
Speaker 1: at a mall or whatever, and people are like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, yeah, and adds like really crazy YouTube thumbnails
Speaker 1: and with all caps titles that are just like visual
Speaker 1: stimuli for your kids to watch. So in his main
Speaker 1: fan bases like twelve year old boys or something, right,
Speaker 1: maybe it's twelve year old girls as well, but like
Speaker 1: he's for kids, Is that the idea? Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's this whole strain of YouTubers that
Speaker 1: are just like a replacement for Jackass, some like slightly
Speaker 1: more evolved version of Jackass, but without the charm, without
Speaker 1: like the I agree or the danger. Yeah, exactly, much
Speaker 1: more Santati. The Jackass guys were legitimately, we're legitimately injuring
Speaker 1: themselves and those around them, and like not that that's good.
Speaker 1: I I actually and this is I probably said this
Speaker 1: before in the show. I like hate pranks, Like I
Speaker 1: really hate pranks exceptually, and I think like pranks just
Speaker 1: are like this really weird. I would say male agrow
Speaker 1: form of communication that is like it's like kind of
Speaker 1: ah into attacking somebody physically. It's like pranks are almost
Speaker 1: a way that men have figured out to attack someone physically,
Speaker 1: but like you forced them to laugh about it, which
Speaker 1: is like a really fucked up thing. You know. It's
Speaker 1: like like if I like open a door and something
Speaker 1: hit me in the face, like my first reaction is
Speaker 1: like that's painful and upsetting and scary and surprising and
Speaker 1: all of these things that I don't like. But with
Speaker 1: a prank, you're supposed to be like, oh you got me, Like,
Speaker 1: oh you broke you broke my nose and I'm going
Speaker 1: to the hospital. But it was worth it for the video. Anyhow,
Speaker 1: we're a little bit off topic, but so Mr Beast
Speaker 1: is a huge, huge internet celebrate, let's call it for
Speaker 1: a bit lack of a better term. But you cover
Speaker 1: people all the time. This is I actually had a
Speaker 1: point there's I was actually going somewhere. You cover people
Speaker 1: all the time who are not that they're like this
Speaker 1: mid tier maybe even lower tier, like this article about haters,
Speaker 1: which I want to talk about, like in more detail.
Speaker 1: But but these are not people who are making like Mr.
Speaker 1: Beasts made like seventy million dollars last year or something.
Speaker 1: He's like unfathomably wealthy from this, right, like the who
Speaker 1: are this sisters, the TikTok sisters, the Damelios, the Demelius,
Speaker 1: they make a ton of money, right, They're very exactly.
Speaker 1: Are the people who you're covering like that are like
Speaker 1: mid tier? Are they making a living? Yeah? I think
Speaker 1: that when we talk about mid tier people or maybe
Speaker 1: talking about like the kind of people that I interview
Speaker 1: for the stories, like people who make day in my
Speaker 1: Life videos where you know, they have a following of
Speaker 1: maybe even up to a million on TikTok or something,
Speaker 1: which honestly, in the context of the platform isn't really
Speaker 1: that much. But really, yeah, a million followers of TikTok
Speaker 1: is not that much. I mean it is, And like,
Speaker 1: I think I know a lot of TikTokers with about
Speaker 1: that many followers who are making a great living like
Speaker 1: a k A. Like you know, they can support themselves
Speaker 1: probably around six figures more maybe, but not everybody. You know,
Speaker 1: it totally depends they're producing content constantly, right, there's a
Speaker 1: content pustle to produce content, correct, and often they have
Speaker 1: like podcast deals and like you know, the kind of
Speaker 1: brand sponsorships where the job is really never ending and
Speaker 1: so is a big trade cuff obviously, But yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: lots more interested in these kind of people, like the
Speaker 1: middle class of online creators who you know, are are
Speaker 1: still relatively normal or making like normal amounts of money,
Speaker 1: but they are kind of these many celebrities within this
Speaker 1: world and you know, they get stopped on the street
Speaker 1: pretty frequently because when you go viral on TikTok a
Speaker 1: few times, like people are going to know who you are.
Speaker 1: And I'm really fascinated by that because it's completely different
Speaker 1: from the way that internet fame used to work, where
Speaker 1: you had to try really, really really hard to get
Speaker 1: big over a series of years, or you were a
Speaker 1: Rebecca Black where you had one thing that made you
Speaker 1: inescapable and it was horrible and whatever. But I really
Speaker 1: am fascinated by these people who kind of stumble into
Speaker 1: online notoriety and kind of make a living out of this,
Speaker 1: even if they're not like a household name, someone like
Speaker 1: Mr Beast or Charlie Damelia, like people who still live
Speaker 1: relatively normal lives but are kind of celebrities. And I
Speaker 1: think it's a really fascinating economy. It's fascinating that we
Speaker 1: have manufactured this economy, that this economy has arisen. I'm curious, like,
Speaker 1: you know, the things that people are triggered by, you know,
Speaker 1: for better or worse, Like do you ever think like
Speaker 1: I'm going to stop writing about this ship and just
Speaker 1: become like one of these people? Uh No, Because I
Speaker 1: talked to enough of them where I know how tough
Speaker 1: it is and how tough it is on them mentally.
Speaker 1: You know, their entire sense of self and self worth
Speaker 1: revolves around how their last video performed. And I've seen
Speaker 1: it really destroy especially young kids. So I think I
Speaker 1: know better, like I knew you're grown up. You can
Speaker 1: handle it now you've got the mental equipment. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I know myself enough to know that I like health
Speaker 1: insurance and that I like stability, and I like up
Speaker 1: steady paycheck. I'm not built for the freelance life. H
Speaker 1: And if I were to do the freelance life, I
Speaker 1: would probably view something like TikTok as like maybe a
Speaker 1: marketing tool for you know, books or whatever else I
Speaker 1: want to make. I don't see it as up sustainable
Speaker 1: path to a really like great career. I know I
Speaker 1: don't know how old you are, and I'm not going
Speaker 1: to ask. Okay, okay, fine, So what are you a millennial? Yes?
Speaker 1: Do youre a millennial? Okay? Do you think that you're
Speaker 1: feeling is informed by your generation that you're from at all? No?
Speaker 1: Not at all. Actually, I'm very steadfast in the opinion
Speaker 1: that generations are fake and like everyone who is human
Speaker 1: is like, you know, going to make the same decision
Speaker 1: with what they're given. But I also know that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, gen Z workers who are
Speaker 1: so scared about like you know, stability and health insurance
Speaker 1: and things like that, Like they want it probably even
Speaker 1: more than I do. You know, like this is a luxury.
Speaker 1: I realized that to like not have to worry about
Speaker 1: to have a job. Yes, like having a job is
Speaker 1: a luxury. A job with health insurance and a job
Speaker 1: with benefits and things like that. That's true. There's this
Speaker 1: dream of like cobbling together all these different like persona
Speaker 1: based revenue streams where it's like I'm just being myself
Speaker 1: and I'm making all this money. But I know more
Speaker 1: than you know they do how much work that is
Speaker 1: and how constant and just like how much it completely
Speaker 1: destroys any other sense of self that you had beyond
Speaker 1: your brand and your fame and your persona. And I
Speaker 1: would never wish that on myself or anybody. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like you've seen the horrors of this industry you're actually
Speaker 1: turned off by You're not like this is cool and exciting.
Speaker 1: I should do this instead of being a dumb journalist
Speaker 1: you know now that you're a dumb journalist. I mean,
Speaker 1: just the job is. I'm not saying I don't want
Speaker 1: to be like a visible like success in my field
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I think anyone with a brain knows
Speaker 1: that the best part of like fame is the money
Speaker 1: and not the fame. The applause you've got is great,
Speaker 1: but like the fame part of it, like that is
Speaker 1: gross and weird and bad. M wow, Okay, you've not
Speaker 1: been tempted to become Mrs Beast or whatever Miss Beast? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Is Mr Beast married? Does he have kids? Like?
Speaker 1: What's his deal? Like, how he's got the He's like,
Speaker 1: oh really? Yeah? I feel like I saw a picture
Speaker 1: of Mr. Beast and he looked like he was in
Speaker 1: his forties. He does look a bit older. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: google this, right you how old? I say, he's like
Speaker 1: thirty eight? Yes, his age is twenty four. He's twenty four.
Speaker 1: He looks much older. God, what that sounds like a lie.
Speaker 1: I think he's lying. Now. That would be a great story.
Speaker 1: Can you investigate whether not Mr Beast is lying about
Speaker 1: his age? By the way, I'm willing to guess if
Speaker 1: you did a story let's say you found out that
Speaker 1: Mr Beast is lying about his age and he's actually
Speaker 1: thirty three or something, which is very possible, by the way,
Speaker 1: Like we should not rule it out because celebrities lab
Speaker 1: about their age all the time. How much hate do
Speaker 1: you feel like you would get from the Mr beasts
Speaker 1: fan base for revealing his true age? Um, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and I don't really care because like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's it's like, I hate to say it, but like
Speaker 1: I've been pretty lucky. Like I know that you're probably
Speaker 1: used to talking to women who have just had a
Speaker 1: horrible experiences online and like, oh women every wood. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have, but it's just like I think I've been
Speaker 1: very lucky in that regard. And so yeah, when I've
Speaker 1: written like two articles on like Andrew Tate and people
Speaker 1: calling me like a con and you know, I should
Speaker 1: die whatever, Like I'm just like I don't care about
Speaker 1: that's fucking extreme though, that's crazy, But this is my point.
Speaker 1: You see here, you are You're like, I haven't had
Speaker 1: those experiences, but that's a very abnormal reaction to an
Speaker 1: article you didn't like. Yeah, I know that like those
Speaker 1: people who like Andrew Tate are insane psycho so like,
Speaker 1: of course they're going to call me a coun I
Speaker 1: don't give a ship. It's true. Wow. But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the first time to see where it has been podcast.
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, it's great. I we had just
Speaker 1: haven't had anybody uses. So I've been trying to cross
Speaker 1: as many as many swear words. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it's a great word when used by girls and gaze
Speaker 1: to each other. But otherwise, no, I think that's fine.
Speaker 1: I think if you want to take ownership of that
Speaker 1: and re contextualize that, that's fantastic. I mean the Andrew
Speaker 1: tap thing is funny. I mean, like it's not funny,
Speaker 1: but I do find it huzzling. Now, I'm not like
Speaker 1: a of your old or fourteen yre. I don't know
Speaker 1: who his followers are, but they're young, that's my understanding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I don't know what it's like to be a
Speaker 1: young like, but they're all boys, right, there's no other
Speaker 1: girls girls who defend him, and I understand why. That's
Speaker 1: like a trad wife sort of perspective, right, that's sure.
Speaker 1: The term would be like a pick me, you know,
Speaker 1: someone who stands up for something that's like objectively anti feminist.
Speaker 1: There's a term for that, and it's picked me. You've
Speaker 1: never heard of a pick me girl? You mean pick
Speaker 1: me like? Pick me? Yeah, okay, No, I mean this
Speaker 1: is actually this particular piece of terminology I'm unfamiliar with.
Speaker 1: Could you explain it a little bit? Oh my god, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll pick me is like that's that's the old slang,
Speaker 1: um isn't. Okay, well, you know, I'm very old. It's well,
Speaker 1: it's also used like today. But it's a girl who
Speaker 1: like goes against her own gender. Essentially, it's someone who
Speaker 1: says anti feminist things so that guys will like her. Okay,
Speaker 1: I've never heard the term pick me. I do understand
Speaker 1: what you mean. But maybe this is a thing that's
Speaker 1: like girls know about more than boys do. I'm not
Speaker 1: really sure, but like there's a lot of those things,
Speaker 1: so you would use it in a derogatory way to
Speaker 1: describe someone, obviously you don't never never positive pick me
Speaker 1: girl is not cool. She's like a trader to women.
Speaker 1: That's what you're saying, basically, Okay, interesting, and so the
Speaker 1: girls that like entertainer pick me girls do trad wives
Speaker 1: fall into the pick me like sub Is they a
Speaker 1: subset of the pick me girl? Or sure? I think
Speaker 1: they're more like anyone who uses the term trad wife
Speaker 1: is probably older than the kind of girl who would
Speaker 1: be called to pick me girl. You know I'm old? Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: what is the new term for a trad wife? No,
Speaker 1: it's not that like this is a new term. It's
Speaker 1: that like pick me is often a term used for
Speaker 1: women who are single and younger, whereas trad wife is
Speaker 1: more of a term used for women who are of
Speaker 1: marrying age. Okay, okay, right, got it. Pick me girl
Speaker 1: could become a trad wife if she plays her cards right.
Speaker 1: You're saying you got it now? Huh? Is you're a
Speaker 1: post trad wife stage? And also is there a pre
Speaker 1: pick me stage? I'd like to know. Well, I think
Speaker 1: the post trade wife is just like mills, like divorced
Speaker 1: milf wife. Oh wow, this is the Pokemon evolution of
Speaker 1: this particular It's like all of the stages. Um okay, wow,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've learned a lot here. But getting
Speaker 1: back to Andrew Tate, the majority of his fans are
Speaker 1: not pick me girls. The majority of his fans are
Speaker 1: young men who feel like I guess are they like
Speaker 1: proto in cells? Are are Andrew Tates fans like in
Speaker 1: cells and training? Is that the idea? I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to imply that he's some like
Speaker 1: genius at getting little boys to pay attention to him,
Speaker 1: because he's definitely not a genius, that's yeah. But it's like,
Speaker 1: I think the way sometimes some people talk about him
Speaker 1: is that he's like this huge danger to boys. And
Speaker 1: it's like they're of always always been these kind of guys,
Speaker 1: whether they're comedians or you know, politicians sometimes or whoever
Speaker 1: that like speak to these you know, twelve year old boys.
Speaker 1: Once they get to an age where they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I understand what feminism is, then they're like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: a threat to me personally with a boy, and I
Speaker 1: should be the one, you know, who everything is catered
Speaker 1: to me. So I think like they target kids, or
Speaker 1: they happen to target kids that are in that kind
Speaker 1: of phase of life where they're starting to understand these
Speaker 1: kind of like sexual politics and they see them as
Speaker 1: a threat and they weaponize it against their female peers,
Speaker 1: who then you know, internalized them forever and whatever, and
Speaker 1: the cycle goes on blah, yeah, blah blah blah blah. Indeed,
Speaker 1: actually it's funny you say that, but like in a way,
Speaker 1: it's almost like a It's like there's this spirit of
Speaker 1: completely shittiness that just travels through the ages, and he's
Speaker 1: just the latest avatar. There's just something in the human
Speaker 1: nature that we have to produce one of these, like
Speaker 1: for every generation, we have to produce genuinely, yes, it's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who is entertained like overtaken as the preeminent voice in
Speaker 1: being a ship head man? Like well, when I was younger,
Speaker 1: it was Tucker Max who was like, oh, yeah, just
Speaker 1: vocal these girls or like the pickup artist guys ruche
Speaker 1: V or whatever. Isn't he one of these guys who
Speaker 1: that is ruche V. Maybe he's rue the twitch guy,
Speaker 1: he's like a pickup artist adjacent. Maybe he's like one
Speaker 1: of these pro rape guys or whatever, like whoever they are, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, isn't that what entertained is? And he
Speaker 1: like take what you want or whatever. He would say
Speaker 1: that he's not, but then he's also said that, you know,
Speaker 1: some horrible things about like pro assaulting women and sexual
Speaker 1: assaulting women, So like we do not need to keep
Speaker 1: talking about entertained. No, we don't. Well you did write
Speaker 1: an explainer, Okay, well I had. It was in the news.
Speaker 1: I realized Jim bank Off, the CEO of Box called
Speaker 1: you up. Box Media said I needed we needn't explain
Speaker 1: her on this guy. It's like my son is. It's like,
Speaker 1: did not happen? Do not happen? Like I need to
Speaker 1: understand what's going on? All right? Anyway, Well, I'm incredible
Speaker 1: ground recovering here today. I mean, honestly, I'm I think
Speaker 1: I'm learning so much. Sorry about haters. Can you set
Speaker 1: the stage a little bit, because I think it's a
Speaker 1: very interesting trend and I've noticed it in my own feeds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I follow a lot of dumb meme accounts on Instagram,
Speaker 1: so that might be the reason. But explain the hater
Speaker 1: trend a little bit, could you. Yeah. So basically, there's
Speaker 1: you know, kind of trend that's going around. I would say,
Speaker 1: like TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, the fun apps where people are
Speaker 1: just like, you know what, I'm a proud hater, you know,
Speaker 1: like everyone says the haters, I'm a hater, like and
Speaker 1: then I'm proud and you know, I'm spreading negativity, you know,
Speaker 1: spreading positivity and spreading activity. I follow meme accounting there
Speaker 1: like I'm in my hater phase or whatever, like hater era. Yeah,
Speaker 1: villain villain and the hater era both used interchangeably. Yeah, okay, right,
Speaker 1: I got it right, And so I did a piece
Speaker 1: on how this is not necessarily it doesn't have anything
Speaker 1: to do with the idea of like mass harassment campaigns
Speaker 1: or hate groups, which are obviously very prevalent on the Internet.
Speaker 1: You know, it's there's a different, different kind of haters. Really, yes,
Speaker 1: like they're both haters in a way, but not the
Speaker 1: hater that we're talking about. We're not talking about like
Speaker 1: hate crimes and like hate groups, right, I mean, like, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: are people confused that these things are the same, because
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like you're talking about people
Speaker 1: who like make fun of things, which is like what
Speaker 1: these haters are posters? Yeah, yeah, like like making fun
Speaker 1: of stuff, Like I follow this account. It's mid century modern.
Speaker 1: What the hell is it called. It's like an Instagram
Speaker 1: account that makes fun of like people who are into
Speaker 1: furniture y M C M wholesale. I believe it's what
Speaker 1: it's called I owned some of the furniture they talk about,
Speaker 1: and they're like, basically like people who are into this
Speaker 1: are stud bit and lame, you know, Like so they're
Speaker 1: like that they're not hate groups focused on like you know,
Speaker 1: destroying like an entire race of people or something. Correct,
Speaker 1: we're talking about hating like dumb pop culture ship or
Speaker 1: like influencer stuff, and not like the Jews. Sorry, no,
Speaker 1: it's perfect, it's perfect. There's a real distinction. Feels so
Speaker 1: gross saying that. No, no, it's it's you can't say
Speaker 1: the Jews. It's really is problematic. It is really it's
Speaker 1: not like the words itself are not are not offensive.
Speaker 1: It's just there's hardly any context where they feel right.
Speaker 1: And I say this as a Jewish person all the time, like, actually,
Speaker 1: I feel like I got called out on the podcast
Speaker 1: recently some peoples like, oh really the Jews, okay, anyhow,
Speaker 1: not to get off topic, but so these people are
Speaker 1: just they're just disgruntled really more than any well I
Speaker 1: would say, yes, but also not really at the thing
Speaker 1: that they're talking about. But I think what really this
Speaker 1: is a pushback against is this idea that, like all
Speaker 1: internet discourse has to be inherently positive. It's very much
Speaker 1: a pushback against like I mean, poptimism to use a
Speaker 1: really dated term, but like this idea that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: all YouTubers, even when they're really doing really shitty things,
Speaker 1: they're just spreading positivity according to them. Right when, like
Speaker 1: Logan Paul looked at that suicide, he was like, I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to spread positivity. Was it Logan Paul or
Speaker 1: Jake Paul? It was Logan Paul. I hate that. I
Speaker 1: know that you have to know it. This is your
Speaker 1: whole beat. I don't know you didn't know it would
Speaker 1: be would be shocking. I guess they were kind of
Speaker 1: like a little bit proto and entertain guys kind of sure,
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think the Paul brothers were good,
Speaker 1: like pre Yeah, there's so many of these guys. Jordan
Speaker 1: Peterson whatever. Oh yeah, he's like an elder statesman of
Speaker 1: that kind of vibe, you know. Okay, Sorry, getting back
Speaker 1: to the haters. They're pushing back against poptimism, which is
Speaker 1: like a term from the Six Dies. I feel like
Speaker 1: I know that was cool. I was a communications major,
Speaker 1: so I do know these words. You're doing a great
Speaker 1: job of communicating it's all paying off because I'm like, honestly,
Speaker 1: this is like just so much great information. So it's
Speaker 1: a reaction to people being nice, is what you're saying, No,
Speaker 1: people saying they're being nice but not being kind. I
Speaker 1: guess it's kind of like, you know, what I would
Speaker 1: I would compare it to is like the idea that
Speaker 1: Southerners are nice but not kind and Northerners are kind
Speaker 1: but not nice. And I think that expression sounds right.
Speaker 1: I guess it means like people in the South seem
Speaker 1: like they're being nice, but they're actually rude or mean.
Speaker 1: I guess it's like more that there's a culture of
Speaker 1: like pretending everything's fine and good. And I totally, like,
Speaker 1: I'm very a big fan of politeness, so I totally
Speaker 1: understand that culture. But I think there's a stereotype that
Speaker 1: New Yorkers, you know, are aren't very nice to your face,
Speaker 1: but like mean well, um, and the culture is more like, hey,
Speaker 1: let's bond over what we are complaining about, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that I think there's some truth to that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that, but I think it's more
Speaker 1: like about time management than to be honest with you,
Speaker 1: Like I think it's New Yorkers don't really have time
Speaker 1: to like waste cycles on like pleasantries. You know. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of the time when a New Yorker
Speaker 1: is interacting with you, it's because they're in a hurry, basically,
Speaker 1: like I feel like, yeah, like, have you ever been
Speaker 1: at a coffee shop that's outside of New York? And
Speaker 1: I know I'm going to get a lot of hate
Speaker 1: mail for this, but have you waited in line at
Speaker 1: a coffee shop in a non New York location? Yes?
Speaker 1: People are so slow at doing things, it's insane. Well
Speaker 1: it's their chatty and everybody's like taking their time, like
Speaker 1: they don't have anywhere to be or anything else to do,
Speaker 1: and it's it is like I kind of understand that
Speaker 1: the expression. And then I don't know, I haven't spent
Speaker 1: that much time in the South, But hold on, is
Speaker 1: somebody refilling your glass off camera? Is it? No? Sorry,
Speaker 1: my boyfriend just got home from the gym, and it's
Speaker 1: like he refilled your glasses that current okay, but I
Speaker 1: feel like your glass was like low and then got
Speaker 1: it was like, well I do have a bottle of money. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's more. What I was getting to is how did
Speaker 1: you get more wine in yours? I guess, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess if somebody refilling it off cameras suggest maybe
Speaker 1: I want to hear more about your boyfriend. But that's good.
Speaker 1: He's working out, staying in shape. It's very important. We
Speaker 1: do have a gym in our building. Not to brag,
Speaker 1: but no, that's great. Wow, a gym in the building. Okay,
Speaker 1: really a one per center over here? Yeah, cancel me.
Speaker 1: Probably a dorman. I do have a doorman. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: luck we've got a COVID deal. I'm not rich, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, luckily. You know you, like you said, you
Speaker 1: don't feel like the haters can really do anything to you. Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny because I'm very, very bothered by like people
Speaker 1: who are normal saying something mean about me that that
Speaker 1: hurts deeply. People who are Andrew tape fans. I do
Speaker 1: not care what they say. So wait, when you say
Speaker 1: people who are normal, let's see, I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: of what that category looks like. Like people who don't
Speaker 1: outwardly have like yeah, like you know, you look on
Speaker 1: their you know, Twitter profile or something, and they're not
Speaker 1: just like angrily tweeting at everyone that's their whole thing.
Speaker 1: You know. I say that's healthy, that's really well adjusted.
Speaker 1: So you're saying like, if a rational person says something mean,
Speaker 1: that is obviously very affecting to you. Yes, yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: But do rational people ever say mean things to you online? Um?
Speaker 1: I've had a couple and I remember them all really, Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Could you cite one? Oh god? Um, well
Speaker 1: you did just claim to remember them, so I have
Speaker 1: to heah. I Actually there's been times where I've worded
Speaker 1: things pretty sloppily and people like rightfully called me out
Speaker 1: for it, and I and I always remember, like I
Speaker 1: still feel really guilty about that specifically, Could you tell
Speaker 1: me one instance of this? Um, there was one time
Speaker 1: where I made a tweet about like how I really
Speaker 1: disliked the tone of certain Twitter conversations where people were like,
Speaker 1: remember to drink some water. And I was like, this
Speaker 1: feels so like infantilizing to me, Yeah, like condescending. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And all I said was that, like, oh, I would
Speaker 1: read like two thousand words on this tone, this particular
Speaker 1: internet tone that you can really only find online. And
Speaker 1: someone said, hey, like I'm disabled and I need these
Speaker 1: reminders to take my medicine or something, and I didn't
Speaker 1: respond to that, but then a lot of other people
Speaker 1: found the tweet and then started like piling on. And
Speaker 1: then this one, you know, disability advocate who have like
Speaker 1: I've read her writing, she's super cool. She was sort
Speaker 1: of like, you know, I don't think we should be
Speaker 1: piling on her for like a poorly worded tweet, and
Speaker 1: I was like, thank you for saying that, Like I
Speaker 1: really didn't mean anything by this at all, Like I,
Speaker 1: you know, have a d h D and like I
Speaker 1: would never assume that, like you know someone with different abilities,
Speaker 1: like you know that that's not what I was talking about.
Speaker 1: That is the strange thing, though, isn't it Like there's
Speaker 1: always this tweet that goes around or some version of
Speaker 1: it where it's like you hold all this tension in
Speaker 1: your back, remember to like relax your shoulders. And I
Speaker 1: understand like there's an element to it where like people
Speaker 1: are just trying to be helpful, like hey, take care
Speaker 1: of yourself, but there is also like it does feel
Speaker 1: sometimes like if it hits you at the wrong moment
Speaker 1: or whatever, you're kind of like, look, I don't need
Speaker 1: you to tell me to relax. It's like when somebody says, hey,
Speaker 1: relax or whatever, you know. Like, for instance, like when
Speaker 1: I get into an argument with my mother, which is
Speaker 1: fairly often, um, she'll say in the middle of the argument,
Speaker 1: she'll say, calm down, yeah, And I've said to her,
Speaker 1: like I can't think of a worse thing to say
Speaker 1: to a person when they're like fired up about something,
Speaker 1: where you just are like completely like just flattening their
Speaker 1: all of their arguments with like your overreacting basically, And
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a calm down sort of
Speaker 1: nature to that, Like it's like I don't need you
Speaker 1: to tell me to drink water or whatever. There's that,
Speaker 1: but it's also just like this idea that like I'm
Speaker 1: going to cleanse your timeline with a photo of my dog.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't come on Twitter to see a
Speaker 1: photo of your dog if I did have a separate
Speaker 1: Twitter account of just dog photos, or I could just
Speaker 1: google dog. But I get it. That's sort of an
Speaker 1: inside voice kind of thing, right, like like you to yourself,
Speaker 1: you would like to the person to post the dog
Speaker 1: you and be like I don't want to see your dog, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have more important ever say that, because obviously, I'll
Speaker 1: look at a picture like I like dogs. I'll be like,
Speaker 1: that's cute, like this idea that they're doing you a
Speaker 1: favor by like tweeting. It's like you, I do think
Speaker 1: it is on the same level as you're like, here's
Speaker 1: a dog to cleanse your timeline, and you're like, I
Speaker 1: find it annoying that you posted a picture of your
Speaker 1: dog or whatever, like it's sort of like the water
Speaker 1: fil But I when I want to cleanse my timeline,
Speaker 1: I want ship posts. I want disgusting memes that are
Speaker 1: really like unintelligible, like weird memes, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: you want memes, unintelligible memes that are disgusting to cleanse
Speaker 1: your timeline. Yes, I mean I get that. I do
Speaker 1: understand that. I'll sometimes I'll have to unfollow a meme account.
Speaker 1: Not they use like particularly graphic images where they just
Speaker 1: have the images are just too weird for me, Like
Speaker 1: I'm just like this is too upsetting, Like I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what's going on happened to me? I'm sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: You're tolerance for it is probably a lot higher because
Speaker 1: you're a You're a millennial. Are you not a millennial?
Speaker 1: I'm wow, thank you that. It's really wonderful. If you
Speaker 1: to say you think I'm a millennial, that's incredible. Millennials
Speaker 1: now are like people will be like, I'm fifty and
Speaker 1: I'm a millennial. That person is not a millennial. Fifty
Speaker 1: year olds are not. There are psychos out there. They're like,
Speaker 1: I'm actually like an elder millennial, Like, no, you're just
Speaker 1: not Imber the other one. I'm a member of the
Speaker 1: Greatest Generation, also known as Janet jene X. The greatest generation,
Speaker 1: I believe is like my grandfather's generation. But I'm like
Speaker 1: taking that because I think gen X has just not
Speaker 1: gotten the credit it deserves. Although there's some horrible gen
Speaker 1: extras too, So it's really, like you said, all these
Speaker 1: generations are made up for marketing purposes, so it's really
Speaker 1: not worth discussing. Getting back really quickly to the thing
Speaker 1: you said about when you were a hater to the
Speaker 1: person who was telling people to drink water, it is
Speaker 1: interesting how quickly we can go on the Internet from
Speaker 1: your relatively innocuous statement, which like you did you actually
Speaker 1: even tweet to the person, Like did you retweet them
Speaker 1: or something? No, it wasn't really about one specific tweet
Speaker 1: rights an idea. It was just sort of like this tone.
Speaker 1: But I think what I was, what I was saying
Speaker 1: was that, like, you know, the thing that kind of
Speaker 1: stuck with me is that, you know, this person who
Speaker 1: agreed with the people who were mad at me, but
Speaker 1: also like could see my point of view, like they
Speaker 1: were sticking up for me in a way, but they
Speaker 1: were also like, you know, she worded it clumsily, and
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, okay, maybe I did word that clumsily.
Speaker 1: But then when I apologize, I was like, thank you
Speaker 1: for saying that. I really didn't mean it that way.
Speaker 1: Then I got even more hate from like people who
Speaker 1: were like, of course she's using her own disability in
Speaker 1: order to likeelf from ablesm accusation. But here's the thing,
Speaker 1: like what you said, I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 1: you worded it, but it doesn't sound to me like
Speaker 1: it could have been targeting people with disabilities. Was it
Speaker 1: targeting people with disabilities? Where you like, no, it was
Speaker 1: about this certain tone that used on Twitter where it's
Speaker 1: like it's literally the same tone as like cleansing your
Speaker 1: timeline with a picture of a dog, Like it's just
Speaker 1: it's a condescending. It's a condescending tone. It's condescending, it's infantilizing,
Speaker 1: and it's also presumptuous. And here you are doubling down
Speaker 1: on your cancelable statement. But here's the thing that I
Speaker 1: find so fascinating, which is like, there's always well, I
Speaker 1: will describe them as a Debbi downer. Laura and I
Speaker 1: talked about this all the time. There's always someone like,
Speaker 1: no matter what the news is, no matter what the
Speaker 1: tweet is. Like I say this like a lot about
Speaker 1: Like it's like the person who's like complains about needing
Speaker 1: a new wallet after finding out they hit the lottery
Speaker 1: or whatever. It's sort of on the spectrum of that
Speaker 1: sense of it's like you could say anything, you like,
Speaker 1: it's my birthday, and then somebody like you know ten
Speaker 1: replies down and be like some of us don't have
Speaker 1: birthdays or whatever. You don't like You're like, I don't like.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to address that, but it is
Speaker 1: weird to me. And I think probably one of the
Speaker 1: greatest signs that Twitter should have never been invented and
Speaker 1: should be destroyed that you can think something and then
Speaker 1: you tweet it, because that's how it works, right, you go,
Speaker 1: I have this thought and then you put it out
Speaker 1: into the world, and then immediately another person can think
Speaker 1: something and tweet it back to you. The way you
Speaker 1: describe the situation that spiraled into like we have to
Speaker 1: cancel Rebecca Jenny, like right, like it spiraled into a
Speaker 1: cancelation situation for you basically where like a mob of
Speaker 1: people were like really mad at you for being ablest
Speaker 1: I think is what I'm hearing, which is definitely not
Speaker 1: the initial intention. And I'm not trying to be like
Speaker 1: I'm not like Joe Rogan or anything like, I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to be like cancel culture. I'm just seeing it's
Speaker 1: sucking insane that that we can have an exchange like that,
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure that that's healthy. Like you must
Speaker 1: see this all the time. It's I mean, I'm surprised
Speaker 1: that you seem as healthy as you seem, because, like
Speaker 1: you said, like it's kind of rough out there. But
Speaker 1: do you ever think like I gotta get out of this,
Speaker 1: like I gotta stop first, Um No, I don't. I
Speaker 1: What I see, honestly is the beauty and the breadth
Speaker 1: of the human experience. I'm genuinely serious, like No, that's
Speaker 1: like I like, I feel like half the time what's
Speaker 1: weird is like seeing all of TikTok try to shunt
Speaker 1: themselves into one or more like very specific categories, whether
Speaker 1: it's like a self diagnosis or just like a label
Speaker 1: of some kind, and then the rest of the Internet
Speaker 1: is just like showing me how how vast the human
Speaker 1: experience really is. And so I think I'd like to
Speaker 1: exist at a happy medium between those two things. Wow.
Speaker 1: I mean I had to tell you I had like
Speaker 1: a lot of other questions. We're not going to get
Speaker 1: to all of them, and in fact, like maybe we
Speaker 1: should just end with therapies. I know now I want
Speaker 1: to know the other questions. Oh my god, Well, I
Speaker 1: mean they were all you know, No, we I want
Speaker 1: you had to tweet about I want to talk about
Speaker 1: bootcut jeans is what? Or bootcut pants is what. I
Speaker 1: feel like you tweeted about bootcut? Did you not tweet
Speaker 1: about I was just looking through Twitter and I was
Speaker 1: thinking about how much I hate bootcut anything, and I
Speaker 1: think you were like, you're into bootcut or whatever and
Speaker 1: more than anything where it was me. Maybe you retweeted
Speaker 1: somebody who was saying about bootcut bootut pants. When was this?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just make that up, I think so.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to you think you have low rise jeans? Oh,
Speaker 1: low rise that's what it was. Yes, yeah, No, low
Speaker 1: rise jeans are back, That's what it was. Low rise
Speaker 1: jeans are ones that are very very low below the waist.
Speaker 1: Is that the idea? Yeah? Also horrible? Also horrible for
Speaker 1: for people generally speaking? Okay, how do you feel about
Speaker 1: boot cut jeans? In that case? Since we're on the topic, UM,
Speaker 1: I pretty much only wear either like wide leg or
Speaker 1: like kind of many flares. Um, many flares. That's like
Speaker 1: a kind of a boot cut, like a crop flare.
Speaker 1: What is a crop flare? It's like one that hits
Speaker 1: just above your ankle bone and like flares out a
Speaker 1: little bit. Is this making the second time I brought
Speaker 1: this up recently? I'm very upset about the rise of
Speaker 1: any boot cut stuff coming back into fashion. Crop flare
Speaker 1: so wrong about boot cut. I feel like that's a
Speaker 1: timeless style. I don't know, I don't know. I actually
Speaker 1: the reason I asked about your your fashion blog, which
Speaker 1: you didn't want to talk about an issue, you can
Speaker 1: talk about it. I'd love to promo it. No, because
Speaker 1: you have a Yeah, because you have an article which
Speaker 1: is everybody's dressing like me? Yeah. And I noticed that
Speaker 1: you have a picture of yourself which is a Getty
Speaker 1: photo from two thousand eleven, and it's some kind of
Speaker 1: fashion event and you're wearing a hat, which is a
Speaker 1: very strong Do you wear hats a lot? I am
Speaker 1: a hat person? You have perhaps every day in the
Speaker 1: fall slash winter. Not everybody's a hat person, And it
Speaker 1: is a bold and strong statement to be a hat person.
Speaker 1: I just want to at person and a banks person,
Speaker 1: which as a lady, that makes me almost a unicorn.
Speaker 1: But like, isn't that Like then you can when you
Speaker 1: have a when you decide to have a a huge
Speaker 1: shift in your in your fashion situation, you can just
Speaker 1: cut your bangs and stop wearing hats, and then it's
Speaker 1: a whole new world for you. Well, the thing is,
Speaker 1: I do not ever shift my fashion. I've dressed the
Speaker 1: same way for the last decade plus. So do you
Speaker 1: have photographic evidence of that? Could you produce, for instance,
Speaker 1: a decade of photos of you dressing exactly the same? Yes? Okay, great,
Speaker 1: I'd like to you should blog about that. What was
Speaker 1: the trend that people are dressing like you what is that?
Speaker 1: What do you call that? So basically, like every time
Speaker 1: colder weather comes around, and then in the Northeast, I
Speaker 1: always forget that this was like not relatable for people
Speaker 1: that don't live in this one specific area. So I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: but this is You're gonna get canceled for this because
Speaker 1: you're so like Vermont centric or New York Australian seasonal
Speaker 1: time so offensive. Basically, every time like the fall comes around,
Speaker 1: people start wearing sort of like back to school clothes.
Speaker 1: And my kind of uniform for you know, since I
Speaker 1: was in college maybe a little bit before, has always
Speaker 1: been you know, tights, miniskirt, turtleneck, beret for or we'll
Speaker 1: coach little little loafers. I've wren that, you know, since
Speaker 1: I was nineteen, and I wear it now at thirty.
Speaker 1: Is this like an Emily in Paris outfit? I've seen
Speaker 1: maybe one episode of Emily in Paris, but I feel
Speaker 1: like she would dress more interesting than that. I've never
Speaker 1: watched the show, so I don't know. It just feels
Speaker 1: right to me to say that, Well, sure, like the beret, yeah,
Speaker 1: but like I'm not saying that my style is unique
Speaker 1: at all, and I in fact say it's quite basic,
Speaker 1: but it's every girl dresses this way once this first
Speaker 1: like October early November wave of fall dressing comes around,
Speaker 1: and especially this year. Um and and you know, like
Speaker 1: that's kind of how trends work. They go in and
Speaker 1: out and that's totally fine. The best way to be,
Speaker 1: I would argue, is to just kind of have a
Speaker 1: style that you really love and works for you, regardless
Speaker 1: of what's trendy at the time. And you can kind
Speaker 1: of add elements of the trendiness if you want and
Speaker 1: take away what you don't want. But yeah, in general,
Speaker 1: that's kind of how I dress. But every fall it's
Speaker 1: sort of this kind of thing again, So I just
Speaker 1: I wrote about what that's like. Well, I have to say,
Speaker 1: I think admitting that you dress in a basic way
Speaker 1: is is bold and powerful. Okay. I did have one
Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to ask about, which we sort
Speaker 1: of touched on here and there. But and then and
Speaker 1: then you got to go because it's getting close to
Speaker 1: bar time for you, although it's obviously bar time at
Speaker 1: home right now. Um. Not judgment, not judgment, more like
Speaker 1: jealousy than anything to be honest with you, just me
Speaker 1: desperate to have an alcoholic beverage. Um, this is kind
Speaker 1: of a blanket, large question, and I hope that I
Speaker 1: hope that it doesn't trouble you too much to answer
Speaker 1: it even a little bit. Do you believe and I'm
Speaker 1: only I'm only asking this because it's sort of wish
Speaker 1: with thinking on my part. Do you believe that social
Speaker 1: media could be dying? Um? No, I don't really. You
Speaker 1: don't think that we're about to see the end of
Speaker 1: social media as we know it. Maybe as we know it,
Speaker 1: but I don't think that like being social on the
Speaker 1: Internet is going to die ever, because that's kind of
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. It's like, I think the formats
Speaker 1: might change, for sure. I think, you know, the hegemony
Speaker 1: of Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, which is the same, TikTok whatever,
Speaker 1: YouTube could be totally challenged by god knows what, but
Speaker 1: I think they will. There will always be, you know,
Speaker 1: people conversing and being weird on the Internet, and I
Speaker 1: think that's great. It's a beautiful answer, actually very optimistic.
Speaker 1: I'm sort of personally hoping that the social media dies
Speaker 1: because it's I feel like it's very unhealthy for people.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe maybe the future is like there's just
Speaker 1: be a really healthy social media platform. I think Taylor
Speaker 1: and I talked about this. That's totally a possibility, you know.
Speaker 1: I think the problem is that most of these platforms
Speaker 1: are extremely, extremely huge and unwieldy, and you know, my
Speaker 1: number one philosophy of the Internet is that like, once
Speaker 1: you get a certain number of people in the same room,
Speaker 1: it's just going to be Lord of the flies, and
Speaker 1: like that's just what's gonna happen. So you have, like,
Speaker 1: if you're going to be you know, a good social
Speaker 1: media platform, you have to find ways to prevent that
Speaker 1: from happening. And you know, no one's found a perfect answer,
Speaker 1: right right, Okay, really we'll ask question final question, Are
Speaker 1: you being real or no? Yeah, I'm gonna be real.
Speaker 1: I think it's really fun you do. And it's like
Speaker 1: I have, like, you know, twenty friends on there, but
Speaker 1: it's fun. I've resisted. I I don't know. I it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you got to manage another thing. It's
Speaker 1: like take a picture, doesn't it feel like the pressure
Speaker 1: is so it's actually like it's it's such a funny
Speaker 1: thing because like the people who are on it like
Speaker 1: if you're with someone who's also on be Real and
Speaker 1: you get the notification, you're like, oh my god, we
Speaker 1: can just take a little picture. It's it's honestly not
Speaker 1: a burden. It's more of just like if you're in
Speaker 1: the mood to do it and you get the notification
Speaker 1: to it, and you can see what other people are
Speaker 1: up to do and then react to them. It's silly.
Speaker 1: It's fun. I feel like, might be real would be
Speaker 1: just be me in the same room every day, is it.
Speaker 1: Do you have anybody who's like that, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's so many people. But honestly, like you just don't
Speaker 1: have to take one every day, you know, Like if
Speaker 1: you know, if it hits me at like two pm
Speaker 1: on a Wednesday and I'm saying up on my computer
Speaker 1: and my cat is not you know, in the immediate facility,
Speaker 1: I just won't take one. And that's fine. Is anybody
Speaker 1: that you know monetizing there be real presence? No? Be real?
Speaker 1: It's like you have to be mutual is in order
Speaker 1: to see content at all? So yeah, okay, all right,
Speaker 1: you've possibly convinced I should begin my journey of being real.
Speaker 1: It's only good if you have other people that you
Speaker 1: know in real life who are on it. Otherwise, who cares?
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody in real life. That's some done.
Speaker 1: I don't do that anymore. I don't have those kinds
Speaker 1: of connections, So unfortunately for me, I will not be
Speaker 1: real I guess maybe that's why you find social media
Speaker 1: so depressing. I don't know. Maybe we're back at This
Speaker 1: was absolutely fascinating and so interesting. Thank you very much
Speaker 1: for coming on. And there are many more things that
Speaker 1: you and I could and should talk about, so you'll
Speaker 1: have to come back. Great. I'll have even more wine
Speaker 1: next time. So, oh my god, I will have wine
Speaker 1: next time as I should have had this time, like
Speaker 1: a like a proper host. Well, that is our show
Speaker 1: for this week. We actually had so much to talk about.
Speaker 1: There were so many influential figures to discuss and so
Speaker 1: many mysteries to unlock that we don't even have time
Speaker 1: for an ending amble and end amble. I don't know
Speaker 1: what is the it's a preamble. I guess a post
Speaker 1: ample is what it would be. There will be no
Speaker 1: post amble. This is the post ample. An Yeah, that
Speaker 1: is our show for this week. We'll be back next
Speaker 1: week with more what future and as always I wish
Speaker 1: you and your family the very past