WEBVTT - #102 Jason Flom with Rodney Reed 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.520 Before we get into this episode, I have some breaking 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.680 news to share with you. Rodney Reid has been granted 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.240 a stay of execution, and I want to thank every 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.360 one of you who took action, who signed a petition, 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.880 who made phone calls, who wrote letters. Your actions matter, 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.600 and this is a good day. At least we have 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:25.880 a chance now to reopen this case and prove his 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:33.280 actual innocence once and for all. The year was nineteen 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.839 ninety six. Stacy Steitz and police officer Jimmy Fanell were 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.240 engaged to be married, but Stacy was having an affair 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.200 with a man named Rodney Reid. On April twenty third, 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.800 nineteen ninety six, Stacy's body was discovered strangled on the 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.520 side of a dirt road near Bastrip, Texas. Her fiancee, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.560 Jimmy Fanell, was a prime suspect until three of Rodney 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:57.240 Reid's intact bermitdazoua were found inside her body. During trial, 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.520 the state alleged that Rodney intercepted miss Style on her 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.040 three am drive to work and proceeded to rape and 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.720 murder her, with no other physical evidence of Rodney in 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.680 the car or at the scene. The forensic science of 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:13.279 the time, incorrectly asserting that intact spermadzzoa could not survive 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.759 past twenty four hours, and Stacy's whereabouts being known within 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.839 the twenty four hours prior to her death. Rodney Reid 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.360 was sentenced to death in nineteen ninety eight. It is 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.800 now common knowledge that intact spermaizoa can be found at 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.520 least seventy two hours after release, and all of the 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:34.200 state's forensic expert witnesses have since disavowed their testimonies. Reid 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.280 continues to maintain that the spermadizoa that the investigation discovered 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.640 was the result of consensual intercourse that transpired well over 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:45.039 twenty four hours prior to her death. On this episode 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.320 of Wroeful Conviction with Jason Flahm, we go to death 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.160 Row to speak with Rodney Reid. Will also speak with 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:54.320 his attorney Bryce Benjett, his brother Roderick Reid, doctor Phil 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:58.200 and the world renowned forensic expert doctor Michael Bowden. Will 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.720 retell his compelling sworn testimony that rules out Rodney as 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.480 the potential perpetrator and disputes the time of death. 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.640 This is wrongful conviction. 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.320 Senior staff attorney for the Innison's project in Rodney's legal council, 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.680 Bryce Benjett came by to tell us about Rodney's case, 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.920 and we know that on April twenty third, nineteen ninety six, 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:30.440 Stacy Stites was found strangled and killed in Bastro of Texas. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.880 She was last seen, of course, with their fiance, Jimmy Fanel, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.480 and the search for Stacy started when she failed to 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.120 report for her three thirty am shift at the grocery 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.760 store where she worked. Jimmy's truck, of course, which he 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.760 testified that she used to drive herself to work that morning, 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.120 was found in a high school parking lot at five 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.920 twenty three am, and Stacy's body was discovered later that 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.680 afternoon that same day, lying face up near an unpaved road. 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.960 So the state argued that Roddy didn't know her, but 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.480 rather that he intercepted her on her way to work, 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.799 gained entry somehow to her truck, sexually assaulted and strangled her, 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.200 and transported her to the remote unpaved road where her 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.160 body was discovered. All the while and this is key 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.720 not leaving any other evidence behind other than the sperm 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:21.280 in her body. And this theory was built importantly on 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.639 three pillars, the three sperms of the zoa that were 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:28.040 found right, the testimony for three forensic experts who maintained 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.119 that sperm does not stay intact for longer than twenty 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.040 four hours after intercourse, which of course we know that 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.520 it does, and that Stit's whereabouts were accounted for most 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.720 of the day before she was murdered, thereby ruling out 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.960 the consensual sex with Reed as an explanation for the 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.560 presence of his sperm. And of course the testimony from 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:50.160 Jimmy Fanell who said that she left at three am 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.600 for work in his truck. But take us back and 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.960 explain some of these circumstances and how the state developed 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.400 this narrative that we now know not only isn't true, 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:01.200 but couldn't possibly be true. 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:03.960 Yeah, it's interesting because when you go back and you 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:08.720 look at how crimes ought to be investigated, there were 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:13.880 many sort of obvious errors that were done. Initially, Nobody 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:18.280 looked at the apartment that Stacey Stite shared with Jimmy Fanell, 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.119 even though that was the last place she was seeing. 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:22.880 That is sort of police work. 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:23.960 One oh one. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:28.760 There were not adequate notes taken of interviews of Jimmy Fanell, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.520 who was later the key source of the timeline of 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:37.640 the state's case. But as the investigation actually progressed, Jimmy 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.760 Fanell soon emerged as the prime suspect in the case 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:46.440 and was investigated. He was aggressively interrogated, he was subjected 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.960 to polygraphs she failed, which he failed. And this took 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.839 place even after the police knew that it was not 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.279 his semen that was collected from Stacy's body, and so 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.760 the notion that the person who semen is in that 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.279 body must be a rapist and a murderer was not 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:11.280 the operating theory of the investigation until they matched that 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.520 semen to Rodney, a person of color. And so there 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.479 is where you have an investigation of the person who 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:26.000 looks like he had opportunity, motive, had a record consistent 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.840 with this kind of behavior. And as soon as Rodney 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.480 was identified as the source of that seamen, this suddenly 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.320 turned around to a sexual assault murder that had to 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:38.400 be committed by him. 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.159 So now Rodney becomes the suspect. The state argued that 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.760 Rodney didn't know the victim. He did, in fact, he 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.040 was having a relationship, and we now have numerous witnesses 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.560 that have come forth who had no connection to Rodney, right, 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:51.719 not just the ones that did have a connection to Rodney. 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.880 His relatives knew he was seeing her, but now others 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:55.479 strangers to him. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.160 Yeah, and this was a big issue at the trial. 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.159 Just to back up, I mean this rile was rushed 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.320 to say at the best. At the trial, the defense 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.920 lawyers were presenting what Rodney had told him, which he 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.400 could back up with witnesses. He said, I was seeing Stacy. 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.080 It was an occasional thing. It was casual. We were 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:21.160 with each other the night before her death, So not 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.840 the night of April twenty second, twenty third, but the 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.800 night of April twenty first, twenty second. So that was 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.520 the theory that was presented at the trial. But unfortunately, 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.839 the defense lawyers did not do the work or have 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.960 the time to do the work to actually present that 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:43.240 evidence to the jury. Even what little evidence that Rodney's 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.680 defense lawyers were able to present about this relationship about 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:53.000 the explanation was completely negated by the prosecution's experts, who 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:58.080 said that it was impossible for Rodney's seeming to be 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.960 there based on consensual sex because of this twenty four 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:03.400 hour timeframe. 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:04.920 At that point right, any jury is going to go well, 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:06.960 that's I mean, you can't explain. 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:06.960 That a way. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.240 And it was clearly important to the jury because they 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.760 asked about it during their deliberations, and the judge actually 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.960 read that invalid testimony back to them while they were 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.400 deciding whether or not to convict Rodney Reid. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.760 But now we know from the top experts in the field, 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:29.640 including doctor Baden, that in fact, the actual amount of 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:35.640 time that the spermatozoa can survive or that can be detected, 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.840 I guess up to seventy two hours. 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:39.880 And all you need to do is open a forensic 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.040 pathology textbook. 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:42.840 Wow, and they don't need an expert. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.680 And so we've gone back now to the States Forensic Pathologist, 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.880 the person who did the autopsy, who has disclaimed the 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.440 testimony that was offered at the trial. We've gone back 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.640 to the Texas Department of Public Safety, who has clarified 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.640 that although their analysts said twenty four hours, the science 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.679 says seventy two. And we've gone back to the private 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.600 DNA lab, who their expert also testified about this twenty 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.520 four hour timeframe, and that private DNA lab has likewise 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:18.240 recanted that opinion said it was in error, and so 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:25.640 the foundation of the state's case, which completely negated Rodney's 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.920 ability to defend himself, is gone, and then in its place, 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.160 We've consulted with the leading forensic pathologists in the country, 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:41.240 Michael boden, Werner, spitz Leroy Riddick, and uniformly they have 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.880 said that when you look at this body, she had 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.160 been killed hours before the state alleged that she was killed, 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.560 which is a time that she, according to Jimmy Finnell, 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.560 was at home with him in her apartment. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.440 My production crew and I flew to Houston, Texas, drove 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.000 about an hour outside the city to the Polunsky Unit 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.319 where Texas Department of Criminal Justice houses death row inmates. 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.520 We were instructed to leave everything but are inspected and approved. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.960 Production equipment in the car, went through security, and finally 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.920 reached Rodney Reid for our non contact interview through bulletproof 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:24.280 plexiglass on death row. Right, good afternoon, How are you doing. 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.120 I'm doing okay. I mean my heart is heavy, obviously, 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.680 but I want to talk about you. Thank you for 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.959 talking with me. First of all, how are you doing now? 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.120 I mean, you've been through this before, you had an 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:41.079 execution day in twenty fifteen, so this is the second 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:41.680 time around. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:45.760 Yes, well as well as to be expected. I mean, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.520 you know, I have my days, but I'm good. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:50.200 You know. 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.360 With meditation, reading, I tried to stay up on current events. 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.080 I tried to distract myself from what's going on, you know, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.720 with other things. You know, it's for stimulating my mind. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:07.400 I'll read magazine, read newspapers. I really like reading the 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.800 comments with my sporters. You know, they have comments that 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:14.440 that I'll read. They're inspiring to me. 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.840 Well, you're inspiring to them. I mean they're writing to 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.079 the Governor's signing petitions that I'm putting out that this 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.720 is project is putting out and it's extraordinary, and it's 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.360 somewhat encouraging to see that, you know, and I think 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.920 it's going to make a difference, hope. So and so 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.000 I want to go back, if it's okay with you, 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.800 back to nineteen ninety six. You're a young man, good 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.640 looking guy when I was a young man. Yeah, you're 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.640 still a good looking guy, but you're a young guy 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.200 and you meet this woman, Stacy Stye. Is a romantic situation. 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.160 We know it was a consensual situation. You met her 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:52.520 at a. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.480 Doamind Shamrock was a it was a convenience store, gas station, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:57.959 life type, but they had a game room and all that. 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.320 And was it love and first sight? Was it like 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:05.280 a lightning bolt hit you or I. I wouldn't say 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:06.240 it like that, you know. 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.360 I was just there. We were just hanging out. I'm 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:12.720 at a jukebox selecting songs and she walks in, you know, 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.760 And I wouldn't say it was no love at first sight, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.120 you know, because we ended up playing pool, you know, 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.440 striking up conversation and it was just good. 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.040 And then sometime after that, obviously there was chemistry there 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:26.319 and you started seeing each other. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.000 Yeah, yeah, discreet, you know. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.199 And then at some point she started seeing Jimmy finell. 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.440 No, she was already seeing him, you know. I was 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:38.600 already seeing someone else. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:38.960 You know. 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.760 That's what's part of the reason why we kind of 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:42.480 kept it discreet. 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:44.040 Did you think you were in love with her or 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.600 was it more just just young people having fun? 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:48.960 We were having fun. There was chemistry there, but I 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.240 wouldn't I wouldn't say that I was in love with 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.199 her because I think if I would have been in 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.040 love with her, I had to cut everything else off, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.480 you know, And I don't really think that she was 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.040 in love with me, because she would have been the 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:01.920 same way. She would cut everything off on that end. 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.080 You know, how long had you been seeing Stacy when 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.040 when she was murdered. 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.679 That I met her in late October, early in November 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.760 of ninety five. Her death was in April, so I 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:15.480 will table. 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.360 Six months, six six months? And how did you find 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:19.400 out about on the news? 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:24.360 Yeah? Yeah, when I heard it on the news, and 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.600 a talented athlete, I didn't want to believe it. This 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.120 is not the Stacy soul. Yeah I was. I was. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.160 I was quite shocked her upcoming wedding when they when 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:39.200 they flashed her picture. I didn't want to believe it 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.439 because I was just with her. I didn't want to 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:42.920 believe it. 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:44.520 You were just with her, like. 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.600 Late night Sunday, early morning Monday, and she was murdered 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:52.280 on a Tuesday, the twenty third. All I can do 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.160 is tell you that I mentioned I had nothing to 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.720 do with that three sperms. I was with her the 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.120 night before. I mean, you learn that sim biology that 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.280 in a pinhead dropped you looking at millions. That's just 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.760 just a pinhead drop. I mean for the states on 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.160 experts to come back in recan't you know. 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.360 All three of them? And then we know that Jimmy 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.040 was the original suspect. We know they kind of circled 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.120 up the wagons and you know, protected him or he 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.839 failed two polygraphs. We know all the fact that, Yeah, 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.080 what would you most want people to know about the 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.559 evidence if you were to say it's to a stranger 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.000 or somebody who's watching this right now, but well, I 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:34.920 don't know he's in there. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.319 It must be something that well the time of death. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.680 Doctor Michael Boden is about as decorated a forensic expert 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.920 as you can get, including having served as chairman of 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.839 the Forensic Pathology Panel for the House Select Committee on Assassinations, 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.120 investigating the assassinations of none less than President John F. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.880 Kennedy and Martin Luther King Junior. He studied the evidence 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.120 Stacey Stitke's murder case and gave testimony at a hearing 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.839 back on October eleventh, twenty seventeen, when Rodney was seeking 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:07.480 a new trial. 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.640 I think that my opinion is solid in this matter 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.880 and disagrees with the prosecutor's opinion. 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.440 It disagrees on almost every important point that the prosecution 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.160 used to convict Rodney. 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.760 Well, it disagrees on the time of death, the place 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:29.800 of death, and whether or not a sexual assault that occurred. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.760 Right, Well, those are pretty much it. And then there's 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.560 the issue of vividity, which plays into all of these things. 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:40.320 Lividity is a measure of time of death. When we die, 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:45.280 certain processes in our bodies stop. The heart stops functioning, 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:50.960 blood stops moving around, and the blood itself. Similar to 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.680 when you give blood at a blood bank, the blood is 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:58.280 about forty five percent solid material red cells, white cells 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.360 and platelets and plasma on top of the yellow tinged 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.880 clear fluid. From the time of our birth to time 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.320 we die. The heart not only pumps blood around but 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.840 also churns it up. So when blood comes out, one 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.400 sees red blood. You don't see the separation when blood 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.800 goes into a bag and a blood bank. After a 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.760 few minutes, one sees the solid material settling down, so 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.120 you have all the red cells and the majority of 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.600 the slaw material coming to the bottom forty percent of 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:32.120 the volume. That's what happens after death. After we die, 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.880 the blood, instead of being well churned up starts settling 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.000 out with the red blood cells, white blood cells, and 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:44.080 platelets settling to the bottom gravity by gravity, So whatever 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:49.040 part of the body is downward against the ground will 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:55.240 get a bluish purple color of the settled red blood cells. 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:56.880 That's called lividity. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.080 And why is this so important in the case of 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:01.400 stacy states. 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.280 Because it tells two things to the medical examine the 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.120 kirner coming to the scene. The first thing we look 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:12.320 for always is did the person die here or was 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.040 the body moved after death? Just an automatic initial impression. 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:21.200 When we see inappropriate liviidity that is lying on the 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:26.880 back as occurrent here, but the discoloration is in the front, 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:31.800 it means that individual, the decessent here was laying face 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:36.120 down for at least four or five hours for the 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:41.480 blood to settle, causing the bluish discoloration of libidity. She 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.080 could not have died in that position. If she had 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.680 died in that position, all the libidity would be near 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.680 the ground. And that's a certainty, that's a certain ring. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.560 This is a change in the body that happens to 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.440 everybody after death. But just the laws of gravity. But 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.320 for the liviidity to settle and not turn. If a 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.919 body is moved within an hour after death, it's like 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.800 when the snow glow, that you let the snow settle 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:09.639 the bottom and you turn it over and it settles 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.600 in the other direction. If in an hour or two 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:16.120 one turns the body over, then all the blood goes 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.600 in the other direction. But after four or five hours, 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.600 the lividity becomes fixed because the red blood cells started 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.919 going out of the blood vessels and well, so that 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.000 if you turn it over after four or five hours, 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:35.639 the inappropriate lividity will remain and won't disappear. So in 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.320 order for us to see the lividity on the front, 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:41.800 not only was she laying face down, but she was 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.440 laying face down in the circumstances at least four or 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.919 five hours, So we could tell from that that she 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.280 was moved from a place that she was laying face down, 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.320 and that she had to be in one position for 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.919 at least four or five hours before she was moved. 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.399 Another thing that happens when we die is that the 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.840 tissues start to decompose because it's not getting the usual 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:07.879 oxygen supply. So the first tissues that decompose are the 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.840 lining cells of the mouth, the nose, and also the 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:15.760 intestine track. They just start dying in the nose and mouth. 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:20.199 The dying tissues mix up with whatever fluids are present 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:26.560 and a thick maroon type discharge will occur. She had 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.120 to be laying face forward and nose of mouth free 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.520 for fluids to leak out, and this would happen in 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:38.760 a car. The purge fluids were in the passenger side 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.440 and that would be coming out of her nose and mouth, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:46.720 and the libidity would be developing to some extent on 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:50.720 the fact that she's leaning forward. In this case, since 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.680 the prosecution argument is that the defendant met her at 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.359 three am and she died after three am, laying in 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.520 one position for at least four or five hours until 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:06.000 eight am, and there's evidence that she was dead in 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.000 the car before five point thirty because in the car 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.000 one has purge fluids, so she's dead for at least 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.919 four hours before she's taken out of the car. 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:16.760 And of course we know that the car was found 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.760 at five twenty three am, so it actually is not possible. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.760 This scenario cannot have happened. You can't have five hours 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.080 and two hours, that's right. 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:29.800 The lividity and the purge fluids of the car would 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.080 establish that she was dead laying face down closer to midnight, 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.040 but definitely before three o'clock in the morning. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.200 The fiance, Jimmy Fanel, and his own words under oath 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.679 a trial. He stated that he was home with her 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.560 from eight pm the night before until she left for 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.880 work around three in the morning the next day. And 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.800 I think you've made it very clear that it is 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.560 your expert opinion, to a degree of a very high 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.080 degree of certainty, that that was the time that she 0:19:58.200 --> 0:19:58.679 was murdered. 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:03.120 It is my opinion that she was murdered and strangled 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:10.800 well before three am, closer to midnight, and that mister 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.720 Fanel was there. Maybe somebody else came in and did it. 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:16.720 I can't say that he did it, except that he 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:17.639 was the only one there. 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.960 How certain are you that Rodney could not have committed 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:22.439 this crime? 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:30.159 I am certain beyond all reasonable doubts that she was 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:35.320 dead before she could possibly have met with Rodney, that 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:40.159 he could not possibly have strangled Stacy after three o'clock 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:44.080 in the morning. Two reasonable certainty, maybe after ninety eight 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:48.600 ninety nine percent. That as far as any testimony in 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.240 any trial in the standards used, he could not have. 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:53.000 Committed the crime. 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:58.760 If this execution goes forward, how are you going to 0:20:58.800 --> 0:20:59.960 process that information? 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.120 It would be terrible. Number ways. Number One, there are 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:08.000 people when executed who turn out to be innocent. Clearly, 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.080 even if he's exonerated, it's horrible that he's been in 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:15.840 prison for so long, during which time, whoever the real murderer, 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.840 is free to go about harming other people. 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.119 I want to talk about the fact that this officer 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:40.520 had a very troubling history of this conduct, and that, 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:46.880 in fact, sometime after Rodney's arrest and conviction, Jimmy himself 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:48.720 was arrested and convicted. 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:51.080 Yeah, and I think we need to go back and 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.280 just look at who Jimmy Fanel was at the time 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.200 and who he continues to be. Even before the time 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.200 of the murder, there were some that things weren't. 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:01.760 Right with Jimmy. 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:07.320 In February of nineteen ninety six, so this is two 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.280 months a little more before the murder, There's an incident 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.919 in which he chases down a young Hispanic man in 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.320 the small town that he's a patrol officer. 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:17.280 He's alleged to. 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:21.800 Have beat him and put a gun to this kid's head. 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:26.840 He was sued for that, alleging police misconduct and police brutality. 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:31.040 That suit was settled, so he had a record of misconduct. 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.280 And that's just not even the half of it. Just 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:36.959 looking from the time around the murder, a woman that 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:43.880 Jimmy Fanell was dating in Gettings described him as emotionally abusive, possessive, 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:49.400 virulently racist, and when she broke off with him the relationship, 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.879 he stalked her. You know, I remember one day, you know, 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:57.040 open up the newspaper and reading about Fanel's rest for 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:03.240 a alleged sexual assault while on patrol, and he ultimately 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:07.480 pled guilty to related charges that arose from an incident 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:10.200 in which he was called out to assist a young 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:14.680 woman and instead of helping her, drove her out, kidnapped her, 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:18.439 raped her, and then dropped her back off in the 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:21.359 situation that he was supposed to protect her from. She 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:26.919 with just incredible bravery, calls nine one and reports it. 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:32.200