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Speaker 1: Before we get into this episode, I have some breaking

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Speaker 1: news to share with you. Rodney Reid has been granted

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Speaker 1: a stay of execution, and I want to thank every

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Speaker 1: one of you who took action, who signed a petition,

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Speaker 1: who made phone calls, who wrote letters. Your actions matter,

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Speaker 1: and this is a good day. At least we have

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Speaker 1: a chance now to reopen this case and prove his

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Speaker 1: actual innocence once and for all. The year was nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six. Stacy Steitz and police officer Jimmy Fanell were

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Speaker 1: engaged to be married, but Stacy was having an affair

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Speaker 1: with a man named Rodney Reid. On April twenty third,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, Stacy's body was discovered strangled on the

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Speaker 1: side of a dirt road near Bastrip, Texas. Her fiancee,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Fanell, was a prime suspect until three of Rodney

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Speaker 1: Reid's intact bermitdazoua were found inside her body. During trial,

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Speaker 1: the state alleged that Rodney intercepted miss Style on her

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Speaker 1: three am drive to work and proceeded to rape and

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Speaker 1: murder her, with no other physical evidence of Rodney in

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Speaker 1: the car or at the scene. The forensic science of

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Speaker 1: the time, incorrectly asserting that intact spermadzzoa could not survive

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Speaker 1: past twenty four hours, and Stacy's whereabouts being known within

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Speaker 1: the twenty four hours prior to her death. Rodney Reid

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Speaker 1: was sentenced to death in nineteen ninety eight. It is

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Speaker 1: now common knowledge that intact spermaizoa can be found at

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Speaker 1: least seventy two hours after release, and all of the

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Speaker 1: state's forensic expert witnesses have since disavowed their testimonies. Reid

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Speaker 1: continues to maintain that the spermadizoa that the investigation discovered

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Speaker 1: was the result of consensual intercourse that transpired well over

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours prior to her death. On this episode

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Speaker 1: of Wroeful Conviction with Jason Flahm, we go to death

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Speaker 1: Row to speak with Rodney Reid. Will also speak with

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Speaker 1: his attorney Bryce Benjett, his brother Roderick Reid, doctor Phil

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Speaker 1: and the world renowned forensic expert doctor Michael Bowden. Will

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Speaker 1: retell his compelling sworn testimony that rules out Rodney as

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Speaker 1: the potential perpetrator and disputes the time of death.

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Speaker 2: This is wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 1: Senior staff attorney for the Innison's project in Rodney's legal council,

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Speaker 1: Bryce Benjett came by to tell us about Rodney's case,

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Speaker 1: and we know that on April twenty third, nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: Stacy Stites was found strangled and killed in Bastro of Texas.

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Speaker 1: She was last seen, of course, with their fiance, Jimmy Fanel,

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Speaker 1: and the search for Stacy started when she failed to

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Speaker 1: report for her three thirty am shift at the grocery

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Speaker 1: store where she worked. Jimmy's truck, of course, which he

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Speaker 1: testified that she used to drive herself to work that morning,

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Speaker 1: was found in a high school parking lot at five

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Speaker 1: twenty three am, and Stacy's body was discovered later that

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Speaker 1: afternoon that same day, lying face up near an unpaved road.

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Speaker 1: So the state argued that Roddy didn't know her, but

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Speaker 1: rather that he intercepted her on her way to work,

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Speaker 1: gained entry somehow to her truck, sexually assaulted and strangled her,

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Speaker 1: and transported her to the remote unpaved road where her

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Speaker 1: body was discovered. All the while and this is key

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Speaker 1: not leaving any other evidence behind other than the sperm

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Speaker 1: in her body. And this theory was built importantly on

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Speaker 1: three pillars, the three sperms of the zoa that were

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Speaker 1: found right, the testimony for three forensic experts who maintained

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Speaker 1: that sperm does not stay intact for longer than twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours after intercourse, which of course we know that

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Speaker 1: it does, and that Stit's whereabouts were accounted for most

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Speaker 1: of the day before she was murdered, thereby ruling out

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Speaker 1: the consensual sex with Reed as an explanation for the

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Speaker 1: presence of his sperm. And of course the testimony from

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Fanell who said that she left at three am

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Speaker 1: for work in his truck. But take us back and

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Speaker 1: explain some of these circumstances and how the state developed

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Speaker 1: this narrative that we now know not only isn't true,

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Speaker 1: but couldn't possibly be true.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting because when you go back and you

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Speaker 3: look at how crimes ought to be investigated, there were

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Speaker 3: many sort of obvious errors that were done. Initially, Nobody

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Speaker 3: looked at the apartment that Stacey Stite shared with Jimmy Fanell,

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Speaker 3: even though that was the last place she was seeing.

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Speaker 4: That is sort of police work.

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Speaker 5: One oh one.

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Speaker 3: There were not adequate notes taken of interviews of Jimmy Fanell,

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Speaker 3: who was later the key source of the timeline of

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Speaker 3: the state's case. But as the investigation actually progressed, Jimmy

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Speaker 3: Fanell soon emerged as the prime suspect in the case

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Speaker 3: and was investigated. He was aggressively interrogated, he was subjected

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Speaker 3: to polygraphs she failed, which he failed. And this took

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Speaker 3: place even after the police knew that it was not

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Speaker 3: his semen that was collected from Stacy's body, and so

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Speaker 3: the notion that the person who semen is in that

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Speaker 3: body must be a rapist and a murderer was not

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Speaker 3: the operating theory of the investigation until they matched that

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Speaker 3: semen to Rodney, a person of color. And so there

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Speaker 3: is where you have an investigation of the person who

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Speaker 3: looks like he had opportunity, motive, had a record consistent

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Speaker 3: with this kind of behavior. And as soon as Rodney

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Speaker 3: was identified as the source of that seamen, this suddenly

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Speaker 3: turned around to a sexual assault murder that had to

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Speaker 3: be committed by him.

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Speaker 1: So now Rodney becomes the suspect. The state argued that

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Speaker 1: Rodney didn't know the victim. He did, in fact, he

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Speaker 1: was having a relationship, and we now have numerous witnesses

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Speaker 1: that have come forth who had no connection to Rodney, right,

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Speaker 1: not just the ones that did have a connection to Rodney.

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Speaker 1: His relatives knew he was seeing her, but now others

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Speaker 1: strangers to him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this was a big issue at the trial.

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Speaker 3: Just to back up, I mean this rile was rushed

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Speaker 3: to say at the best. At the trial, the defense

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Speaker 3: lawyers were presenting what Rodney had told him, which he

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Speaker 3: could back up with witnesses. He said, I was seeing Stacy.

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Speaker 3: It was an occasional thing. It was casual. We were

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Speaker 3: with each other the night before her death, So not

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Speaker 3: the night of April twenty second, twenty third, but the

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Speaker 3: night of April twenty first, twenty second. So that was

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Speaker 3: the theory that was presented at the trial. But unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: the defense lawyers did not do the work or have

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Speaker 3: the time to do the work to actually present that

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Speaker 3: evidence to the jury. Even what little evidence that Rodney's

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Speaker 3: defense lawyers were able to present about this relationship about

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Speaker 3: the explanation was completely negated by the prosecution's experts, who

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Speaker 3: said that it was impossible for Rodney's seeming to be

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Speaker 3: there based on consensual sex because of this twenty four

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Speaker 3: hour timeframe.

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Speaker 1: At that point right, any jury is going to go well,

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Speaker 1: that's I mean, you can't explain.

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Speaker 4: That a way.

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Speaker 3: And it was clearly important to the jury because they

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Speaker 3: asked about it during their deliberations, and the judge actually

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Speaker 3: read that invalid testimony back to them while they were

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Speaker 3: deciding whether or not to convict Rodney Reid.

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Speaker 1: But now we know from the top experts in the field,

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Speaker 1: including doctor Baden, that in fact, the actual amount of

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Speaker 1: time that the spermatozoa can survive or that can be detected,

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Speaker 1: I guess up to seventy two hours.

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Speaker 3: And all you need to do is open a forensic

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Speaker 3: pathology textbook.

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Speaker 1: Wow, and they don't need an expert.

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Speaker 3: And so we've gone back now to the States Forensic Pathologist,

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Speaker 3: the person who did the autopsy, who has disclaimed the

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Speaker 3: testimony that was offered at the trial. We've gone back

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Speaker 3: to the Texas Department of Public Safety, who has clarified

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Speaker 3: that although their analysts said twenty four hours, the science

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Speaker 3: says seventy two. And we've gone back to the private

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Speaker 3: DNA lab, who their expert also testified about this twenty

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Speaker 3: four hour timeframe, and that private DNA lab has likewise

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Speaker 3: recanted that opinion said it was in error, and so

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Speaker 3: the foundation of the state's case, which completely negated Rodney's

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Speaker 3: ability to defend himself, is gone, and then in its place,

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Speaker 3: We've consulted with the leading forensic pathologists in the country,

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Speaker 3: Michael boden, Werner, spitz Leroy Riddick, and uniformly they have

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Speaker 3: said that when you look at this body, she had

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Speaker 3: been killed hours before the state alleged that she was killed,

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Speaker 3: which is a time that she, according to Jimmy Finnell,

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Speaker 3: was at home with him in her apartment.

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Speaker 1: My production crew and I flew to Houston, Texas, drove

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Speaker 1: about an hour outside the city to the Polunsky Unit

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Speaker 1: where Texas Department of Criminal Justice houses death row inmates.

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Speaker 1: We were instructed to leave everything but are inspected and approved.

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Speaker 1: Production equipment in the car, went through security, and finally

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Speaker 1: reached Rodney Reid for our non contact interview through bulletproof

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Speaker 1: plexiglass on death row. Right, good afternoon, How are you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing okay. I mean my heart is heavy, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but I want to talk about you. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: talking with me. First of all, how are you doing now?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've been through this before, you had an

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Speaker 1: execution day in twenty fifteen, so this is the second

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Speaker 1: time around.

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Speaker 6: Yes, well as well as to be expected. I mean,

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Speaker 6: you know, I have my days, but I'm good.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 6: With meditation, reading, I tried to stay up on current events.

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Speaker 6: I tried to distract myself from what's going on, you know,

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Speaker 6: with other things. You know, it's for stimulating my mind.

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Speaker 6: I'll read magazine, read newspapers. I really like reading the

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Speaker 6: comments with my sporters. You know, they have comments that

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Speaker 6: that I'll read. They're inspiring to me.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're inspiring to them. I mean they're writing to

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Speaker 1: the Governor's signing petitions that I'm putting out that this

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Speaker 1: is project is putting out and it's extraordinary, and it's

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Speaker 1: somewhat encouraging to see that, you know, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's going to make a difference, hope. So and so

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Speaker 1: I want to go back, if it's okay with you,

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Speaker 1: back to nineteen ninety six. You're a young man, good

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Speaker 1: looking guy when I was a young man. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: still a good looking guy, but you're a young guy

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Speaker 1: and you meet this woman, Stacy Stye. Is a romantic situation.

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Speaker 1: We know it was a consensual situation. You met her

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Speaker 1: at a.

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Speaker 6: Doamind Shamrock was a it was a convenience store, gas station,

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Speaker 6: life type, but they had a game room and all that.

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Speaker 7: And was it love and first sight? Was it like

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Speaker 7: a lightning bolt hit you or I. I wouldn't say

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Speaker 7: it like that, you know.

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Speaker 6: I was just there. We were just hanging out. I'm

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Speaker 6: at a jukebox selecting songs and she walks in, you know,

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Speaker 6: And I wouldn't say it was no love at first sight,

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Speaker 6: you know, because we ended up playing pool, you know,

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Speaker 6: striking up conversation and it was just good.

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Speaker 1: And then sometime after that, obviously there was chemistry there

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Speaker 1: and you started seeing each other.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, discreet, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then at some point she started seeing Jimmy finell.

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Speaker 6: No, she was already seeing him, you know. I was

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Speaker 6: already seeing someone else.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 6: That's what's part of the reason why we kind of

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Speaker 6: kept it discreet.

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Speaker 1: Did you think you were in love with her or

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Speaker 1: was it more just just young people having fun?

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Speaker 6: We were having fun. There was chemistry there, but I

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Speaker 6: wouldn't I wouldn't say that I was in love with

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Speaker 6: her because I think if I would have been in

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Speaker 6: love with her, I had to cut everything else off,

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Speaker 6: you know, And I don't really think that she was

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Speaker 6: in love with me, because she would have been the

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Speaker 6: same way. She would cut everything off on that end.

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Speaker 1: You know, how long had you been seeing Stacy when

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Speaker 1: when she was murdered.

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Speaker 6: That I met her in late October, early in November

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Speaker 6: of ninety five. Her death was in April, so I

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Speaker 6: will table.

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Speaker 7: Six months, six six months? And how did you find

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Speaker 7: out about on the news?

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Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, when I heard it on the news, and

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Speaker 6: a talented athlete, I didn't want to believe it. This

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Speaker 6: is not the Stacy soul. Yeah I was. I was.

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Speaker 6: I was quite shocked her upcoming wedding when they when

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Speaker 6: they flashed her picture. I didn't want to believe it

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Speaker 6: because I was just with her. I didn't want to

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Speaker 6: believe it.

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Speaker 1: You were just with her, like.

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Speaker 6: Late night Sunday, early morning Monday, and she was murdered

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Speaker 6: on a Tuesday, the twenty third. All I can do

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Speaker 6: is tell you that I mentioned I had nothing to

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Speaker 6: do with that three sperms. I was with her the

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Speaker 6: night before. I mean, you learn that sim biology that

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Speaker 6: in a pinhead dropped you looking at millions. That's just

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Speaker 6: just a pinhead drop. I mean for the states on

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Speaker 6: experts to come back in recan't you know.

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Speaker 1: All three of them? And then we know that Jimmy

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Speaker 1: was the original suspect. We know they kind of circled

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Speaker 1: up the wagons and you know, protected him or he

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Speaker 1: failed two polygraphs. We know all the fact that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what would you most want people to know about the

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Speaker 1: evidence if you were to say it's to a stranger

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Speaker 1: or somebody who's watching this right now, but well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know he's in there.

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Speaker 6: It must be something that well the time of death.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Michael Boden is about as decorated a forensic expert

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Speaker 1: as you can get, including having served as chairman of

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Speaker 1: the Forensic Pathology Panel for the House Select Committee on Assassinations,

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Speaker 1: investigating the assassinations of none less than President John F.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy and Martin Luther King Junior. He studied the evidence

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Speaker 1: Stacey Stitke's murder case and gave testimony at a hearing

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Speaker 1: back on October eleventh, twenty seventeen, when Rodney was seeking

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Speaker 1: a new trial.

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Speaker 4: I think that my opinion is solid in this matter

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Speaker 4: and disagrees with the prosecutor's opinion.

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Speaker 1: It disagrees on almost every important point that the prosecution

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Speaker 1: used to convict Rodney.

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Speaker 4: Well, it disagrees on the time of death, the place

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Speaker 4: of death, and whether or not a sexual assault that occurred.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, those are pretty much it. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the issue of vividity, which plays into all of these things.

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Speaker 4: Lividity is a measure of time of death. When we die,

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Speaker 4: certain processes in our bodies stop. The heart stops functioning,

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Speaker 4: blood stops moving around, and the blood itself. Similar to

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Speaker 4: when you give blood at a blood bank, the blood is

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Speaker 4: about forty five percent solid material red cells, white cells

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Speaker 4: and platelets and plasma on top of the yellow tinged

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Speaker 4: clear fluid. From the time of our birth to time

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Speaker 4: we die. The heart not only pumps blood around but

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Speaker 4: also churns it up. So when blood comes out, one

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Speaker 4: sees red blood. You don't see the separation when blood

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Speaker 4: goes into a bag and a blood bank. After a

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Speaker 4: few minutes, one sees the solid material settling down, so

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Speaker 4: you have all the red cells and the majority of

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Speaker 4: the slaw material coming to the bottom forty percent of

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Speaker 4: the volume. That's what happens after death. After we die,

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Speaker 4: the blood, instead of being well churned up starts settling

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Speaker 4: out with the red blood cells, white blood cells, and

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Speaker 4: platelets settling to the bottom gravity by gravity, So whatever

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Speaker 4: part of the body is downward against the ground will

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Speaker 4: get a bluish purple color of the settled red blood cells.

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Speaker 4: That's called lividity.

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Speaker 1: And why is this so important in the case of

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Speaker 1: stacy states.

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Speaker 4: Because it tells two things to the medical examine the

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Speaker 4: kirner coming to the scene. The first thing we look

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Speaker 4: for always is did the person die here or was

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Speaker 4: the body moved after death? Just an automatic initial impression.

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Speaker 4: When we see inappropriate liviidity that is lying on the

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Speaker 4: back as occurrent here, but the discoloration is in the front,

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Speaker 4: it means that individual, the decessent here was laying face

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Speaker 4: down for at least four or five hours for the

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Speaker 4: blood to settle, causing the bluish discoloration of libidity. She

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Speaker 4: could not have died in that position. If she had

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Speaker 4: died in that position, all the libidity would be near

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Speaker 4: the ground. And that's a certainty, that's a certain ring.

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Speaker 4: This is a change in the body that happens to

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Speaker 4: everybody after death. But just the laws of gravity. But

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Speaker 4: for the liviidity to settle and not turn. If a

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Speaker 4: body is moved within an hour after death, it's like

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Speaker 4: when the snow glow, that you let the snow settle

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Speaker 4: the bottom and you turn it over and it settles

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Speaker 4: in the other direction. If in an hour or two

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Speaker 4: one turns the body over, then all the blood goes

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Speaker 4: in the other direction. But after four or five hours,

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Speaker 4: the lividity becomes fixed because the red blood cells started

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Speaker 4: going out of the blood vessels and well, so that

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Speaker 4: if you turn it over after four or five hours,

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Speaker 4: the inappropriate lividity will remain and won't disappear. So in

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Speaker 4: order for us to see the lividity on the front,

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Speaker 4: not only was she laying face down, but she was

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Speaker 4: laying face down in the circumstances at least four or

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Speaker 4: five hours, So we could tell from that that she

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Speaker 4: was moved from a place that she was laying face down,

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Speaker 4: and that she had to be in one position for

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Speaker 4: at least four or five hours before she was moved.

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Speaker 4: Another thing that happens when we die is that the

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Speaker 4: tissues start to decompose because it's not getting the usual

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Speaker 4: oxygen supply. So the first tissues that decompose are the

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Speaker 4: lining cells of the mouth, the nose, and also the

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Speaker 4: intestine track. They just start dying in the nose and mouth.

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Speaker 4: The dying tissues mix up with whatever fluids are present

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Speaker 4: and a thick maroon type discharge will occur. She had

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Speaker 4: to be laying face forward and nose of mouth free

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Speaker 4: for fluids to leak out, and this would happen in

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Speaker 4: a car. The purge fluids were in the passenger side

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Speaker 4: and that would be coming out of her nose and mouth,

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Speaker 4: and the libidity would be developing to some extent on

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Speaker 4: the fact that she's leaning forward. In this case, since

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Speaker 4: the prosecution argument is that the defendant met her at

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Speaker 4: three am and she died after three am, laying in

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Speaker 4: one position for at least four or five hours until

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Speaker 4: eight am, and there's evidence that she was dead in

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Speaker 4: the car before five point thirty because in the car

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Speaker 4: one has purge fluids, so she's dead for at least

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Speaker 4: four hours before she's taken out of the car.

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Speaker 1: And of course we know that the car was found

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Speaker 1: at five twenty three am, so it actually is not possible.

337
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Speaker 1: This scenario cannot have happened. You can't have five hours

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Speaker 1: and two hours, that's right.

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Speaker 4: The lividity and the purge fluids of the car would

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Speaker 4: establish that she was dead laying face down closer to midnight,

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Speaker 4: but definitely before three o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 1: The fiance, Jimmy Fanel, and his own words under oath

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Speaker 1: a trial. He stated that he was home with her

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Speaker 1: from eight pm the night before until she left for

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Speaker 1: work around three in the morning the next day. And

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Speaker 1: I think you've made it very clear that it is

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Speaker 1: your expert opinion, to a degree of a very high

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Speaker 1: degree of certainty, that that was the time that she

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Speaker 1: was murdered.

350
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Speaker 4: It is my opinion that she was murdered and strangled

351
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 4: well before three am, closer to midnight, and that mister

352
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Speaker 4: Fanel was there. Maybe somebody else came in and did it.

353
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Speaker 4: I can't say that he did it, except that he

354
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Speaker 4: was the only one there.

355
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Speaker 1: How certain are you that Rodney could not have committed

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Speaker 1: this crime?

357
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Speaker 4: I am certain beyond all reasonable doubts that she was

358
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Speaker 4: dead before she could possibly have met with Rodney, that

359
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,159
Speaker 4: he could not possibly have strangled Stacy after three o'clock

360
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Speaker 4: in the morning. Two reasonable certainty, maybe after ninety eight

361
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 4: ninety nine percent. That as far as any testimony in

362
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Speaker 4: any trial in the standards used, he could not have.

363
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Speaker 2: Committed the crime.

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Speaker 1: If this execution goes forward, how are you going to

365
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Speaker 1: process that information?

366
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Speaker 4: It would be terrible. Number ways. Number One, there are

367
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Speaker 4: people when executed who turn out to be innocent. Clearly,

368
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 4: even if he's exonerated, it's horrible that he's been in

369
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Speaker 4: prison for so long, during which time, whoever the real murderer,

370
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Speaker 4: is free to go about harming other people.

371
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Speaker 1: I want to talk about the fact that this officer

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Speaker 1: had a very troubling history of this conduct, and that,

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Speaker 1: in fact, sometime after Rodney's arrest and conviction, Jimmy himself

374
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Speaker 1: was arrested and convicted.

375
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think we need to go back and

376
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Speaker 3: just look at who Jimmy Fanel was at the time

377
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Speaker 3: and who he continues to be. Even before the time

378
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Speaker 3: of the murder, there were some that things weren't.

379
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Speaker 2: Right with Jimmy.

380
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Speaker 3: In February of nineteen ninety six, so this is two

381
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 3: months a little more before the murder, There's an incident

382
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 3: in which he chases down a young Hispanic man in

383
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Speaker 3: the small town that he's a patrol officer.

384
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Speaker 5: He's alleged to.

385
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Speaker 3: Have beat him and put a gun to this kid's head.

386
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 3: He was sued for that, alleging police misconduct and police brutality.

387
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 3: That suit was settled, so he had a record of misconduct.

388
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Speaker 3: And that's just not even the half of it. Just

389
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Speaker 3: looking from the time around the murder, a woman that

390
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 3: Jimmy Fanell was dating in Gettings described him as emotionally abusive, possessive,

391
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Speaker 3: virulently racist, and when she broke off with him the relationship,

392
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Speaker 3: he stalked her. You know, I remember one day, you know,

393
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Speaker 3: open up the newspaper and reading about Fanel's rest for

394
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Speaker 3: a alleged sexual assault while on patrol, and he ultimately

395
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Speaker 3: pled guilty to related charges that arose from an incident

396
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 3: in which he was called out to assist a young

397
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Speaker 3: woman and instead of helping her, drove her out, kidnapped her,

398
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 3: raped her, and then dropped her back off in the

399
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 3: situation that he was supposed to protect her from. She

400
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 3: with just incredible bravery, calls nine one and reports it.

401
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 3: And what happens. Jimmy Finel comes back out, intercepts her,

402
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 3: arrests her, and thankfully of the police ultimately took this

403
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 3: seriously and Finel was prosecuted. I convicted and convicted, pled

404
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 3: guilty to charges, served essentially every day of a ten

405
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Speaker 3: year sentence.

406
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Speaker 6: He was quote unquote one of the state's finest a

407
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Speaker 6: police officer, you know, and these things happen. You know,

408
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 6: you have police killings here, killing innocent people, you know,

409
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 6: unarmed people, and the first thing they say, they was

410
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 6: in fear for their lives. But then here you have

411
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 6: this police officers that's wasn't in fear for his life,

412
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 6: didn't give a damn about life, and up until the

413
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 6: time he got convicted of the crime he just got

414
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 6: released from I feel like the state enabled him that.

415
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 6: I mean, they should have been keeping an eye on it.

416
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: When did you learn about Jimmy being arrested and charged

417
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: with kidnapping and rape, which happened about ten years after

418
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: you were convicted.

419
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was on TV. No. I was listening to

420
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 6: the radio. We don't have television here, you know. I

421
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 6: listened to it hour on the hour, you know, and

422
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 6: just so happened. I was and I heard them talking

423
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Speaker 6: about an officer being arrested for sexual assault and Williamson County,

424
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Speaker 6: and it was getting closing club and then when they

425
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 6: said Jimmy Fanel, I tried to kick the door off

426
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 6: the hinges. I was like, I was elated, you know,

427
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Speaker 6: I was kind of amped up.

428
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Speaker 1: Really, did you think they were victim?

429
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 6: Yeah? It wasn't until later on to my attorneys within

430
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 6: this project really started digging into that and pulling up

431
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 6: the information, and I was like, well, okay, he's charged

432
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 6: with this. But then they found out that he was

433
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 6: under investigation in it. They found out about these other

434
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 6: cases that he had been charged with that his fellow

435
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 6: officers pushed on this rug for him. You know, I

436
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 6: was like, there's no way this can't be happening. So

437
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 6: even the law enforcement, the agency that he worked for,

438
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 6: was protecting him.

439
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, in your case, we know that it was his

440
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: best friend on the forest who was one of the

441
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: lead investigators.

442
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: When you look at the police investigation, this was not

443
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: a one offense. Police reports indicate that he had credible

444
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 3: alligation of raping at least one other woman in his

445
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: custody and a pattern of abuse and sexual misconduct that

446
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 3: went back years. One of the police reports talking about

447
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 3: the rape allegations, where he was on patrol, he rapes

448
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 3: a woman and then gives her his card, saying, you

449
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 3: know you want to go on on another date. And

450
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: so this is not somebody who's at least the evidence

451
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 3: shows is tied to reality and somebody that we should

452
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 3: be concerned about.

453
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: I read somewhere that Officer Fanel, then Officer Fanell, had

454
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: been overheard by a fellow officer bragging or exclaiming that

455
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: if he ever found Stacy cheating on him, he would

456
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 1: strangle her with a belt.

457
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 4: Is that true?

458
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, So he was in a police training class. He

459
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 3: was a rookie cop when all this went down, and

460
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: a classmate of his was sort of in some sort

461
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 3: of an argument with him, and he said, well, you know,

462
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 3: if I ever catch my girlfriend cheating on me, me

463
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 3: I kill her. And she made some response about how

464
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 3: he would be you know, identified or something. He said, no,

465
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 3: they'll never get my fingerprints. I'll strangler with a belt,

466
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: which you know, obviously, where you have Stacy strangled with

467
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: a belt is just, you know, hard to understand. But

468
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: then you got to put that in the context of

469
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: everything that the police reports indicated about Jimmy and everything

470
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 3: we subsequently know. When he talked to the police about

471
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 3: this case early on, his statement was riddled with inconsistencies.

472
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: The morning she disappeared, but before her body was found,

473
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 3: took out all the money in his bank account.

474
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: Then the fact that two eyewitnesses have recently come forward

475
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: and submitted signed affid David's, an insurance salesperson who said

476
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: that Vanell threatened to kill Stacy while a playing for

477
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: life insurance, a deputy in the Lee County Sheriff's office

478
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: at the time of the murder, who Finel made an

479
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: incriminating statement to at Stacy's funeral, and Finelle's best friend

480
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: at the time of the murder, Bastrip Sheriff's Deputy Curtis Davis,

481
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: has now revealed that Fanell gave an inconsistent account of

482
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: where he was on the night of the murder. He

483
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: claimed to Officer Davis that he was out late drinking,

484
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: and he later testified a triality spent a quiet evening

485
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: at home with Stites at their apartment during what we

486
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: now know to be the time of her death, based

487
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: on no less than doctor Michael Bodden's testimony. When asked

488
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: to explain this discrepancy, Fanell invoked his Fifth Amendment rights,

489
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: declining to testify to avoid possible self incrimination. So all

490
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: of this adds up to a mountain of shit. Also,

491
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: the breaking news is that there's a confession right that

492
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: someone who was in prison with him has now come

493
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: forward and signed to that of David saying that Jimmy

494
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: confessed to this fellow that he was in prison with

495
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: that he had actually strangled her. Many of you know

496
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: doctor Phil for his accomplishments his legendary career in TV

497
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: and entertainment, But what you may not know is that

498
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: he was the founder of Courtroom Sciences, the first organization

499
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: that made a science out of jury selection and other

500
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: courtroom practices that lead to the type of outcomes that

501
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: we all want, which is the right person getting convicted.

502
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: You have made a very conscious decision to use your

503
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: personal capital, your name value, your own financial resources, and

504
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: most of all, your time to fly around the country

505
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: to spend hours and hours helping someone who a few

506
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: weeks ago was a total stranger to you. What's going

507
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: on here? Why are you so passionately devoted to trying

508
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: to save Rodney Reid's life? Don't and that's not hyperbole.

509
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 8: Well, I went down and spoke to the man, and

510
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 8: I did not go in there presuming he was innocent

511
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 8: or guilty. I went down to talk to him, and

512
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 8: I looked the man in the eye and ask him

513
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 8: a lot of in depth questions, ask him some questions

514
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 8: that there were right or wrong answers to in terms

515
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 8: of whether he was telling the truth or not. I

516
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 8: came away feeling like he was definitely a man of

517
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 8: integrity and was clearly being victimized here. And I really

518
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 8: tried to be empathetic and thought, if I was in

519
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 8: that situation, or one of my sons, which I have two,

520
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 8: we're in that situation, what would I hope and pray

521
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 8: someone would do. And so I came back and really

522
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 8: dove into the science and the evidence here, and I

523
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 8: was appalled at what I found. This man has not

524
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 8: had due process. I mean, he's not had a fair

525
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 8: trial yet, and they've taken twenty two and a half

526
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 8: years of this man's life. And who knows what he

527
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 8: would have done in those twenty two years. You know,

528
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 8: maybe he would have saved some people's lives. Maybe he

529
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 8: would have gone to a wrack. Maybe he would have

530
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 8: been a paramedic and save lives. Maybe he would have

531
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 8: been a thief and gotten shot. You don't know what

532
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 8: somebody would have done. But he had the right to

533
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 8: find out. He had the right to make those choices

534
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 8: and know and that was taken from him. And I, frankly,

535
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 8: don't think this was a close call. I don't you

536
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 8: know whether he did it or didn't do it. I

537
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 8: don't think it was a close call. And if you

538
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 8: watch the two hours that we devoted this on the air,

539
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 8: I brought on the defense lawyer or her fiance. I

540
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 8: brought him on, and I gave him a platform to

541
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 8: speak from. I spoke to him after the show, away

542
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 8: from the cameras, and he does believe Rodney Red is guilty.

543
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 8: And I let him speak, and he said every reason

544
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 8: that he thought I gave people. I did not bury

545
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 8: the negatives. I looked at both sides of this, and

546
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 8: then I looked at the science and it was very

547
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 8: clear to me he couldn't have done this. Even if

548
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 8: he was the kind of character that would have done this,

549
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 8: he couldn't have done this. And I don't believe he's

550
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 8: the kind of character that would have done this. I

551
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 8: didn't know him at the time, but I know him

552
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 8: now and I believe he is a good man that

553
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 8: would be a good addition to this world and this community,

554
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 8: and I just felt like, you know, I can't look

555
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 8: this man in the eye know what I know in

556
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 8: my heart from the training that I have, and go

557
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 8: home and go to dinner. How do you do that?

558
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 8: How do you know what you know and don't do

559
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 8: something about it.

560
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: You can't unknow it, that's for sure.

561
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 8: First, they cited some DNA evidence. They said there was

562
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 8: Rodney sperm found inside her body, and to me, that's

563
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 8: a lie biomission because supposedly a rape took place at

564
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 8: three am the morning.

565
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: That she died.

566
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 8: Now, they found her body at approximately three in the afternoon,

567
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 8: about twelve hours later. At that time, had he raped her,

568
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 8: there would have been million of spermtozoa still viable inside

569
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 8: her body. There were three sperm heads, which means they

570
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 8: had deteriorated to the point that the bodies had fallen

571
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 8: off the heads, and there were the three little microscopic

572
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 8: heads in there. So that's about, you know, anywhere between

573
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 8: three and ten million off of the count of what

574
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 8: it would be if he had had sex with her

575
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 8: at the time that she was supposedly raped and killed.

576
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 8: But they had been seeing each other and he said

577
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 8: he had sex with her before and was that relationship

578
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 8: real or did he just make that up? Well, people

579
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 8: he knows knew about it. People she knows knew about it.

580
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 8: People that he didn't know knew about it. So people

581
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 8: from both of their lives, they lived in two different worlds,

582
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 8: and people in both worlds that didn't know each other

583
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 8: both knew about their relationship. So the fact that they

584
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 8: had a relationship to me is confirmed by people who

585
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 8: don't know each other telling the same story. That explains

586
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 8: to me the sperm in her body. Then when they

587
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 8: found her body, the science of deterioration, lividity, the deterioration

588
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 8: of the skin, what they found in the truck, in

589
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 8: terms of bodily fluids that had come up, all the

590
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 8: things that you know were on a timeline from death

591
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 8: just simply didn't match. That she had been dead for

592
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 8: twelve hours when they found the body. It suggested she

593
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 8: had been dead a whole lot longer than that, And

594
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 8: she wasn't with Rodney during those earlier hours. She was

595
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 8: with someone else that is not contested. So if she

596
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,439
Speaker 8: was killed hours before they say she was killed, which

597
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 8: the science says is true, he didn't do it. He

598
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 8: wasn't with her nobody says he was with her, then

599
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 8: she was with somebody else, and that is uncontested. There

600
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 8: were no fingerprints in the truck. They didn't test for DNA.

601
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 8: Of course we now can test for contact DNA et cetera,

602
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 8: et cetera. But they didn't find any evidence of him

603
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 8: being in that truck whatsoever. And there's just no evidence

604
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 8: that connects him with that crime. And there is evidence

605
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 8: that connects other people to that crime. So if you

606
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 8: believe these world class worldWe experts that have done thousands

607
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 8: and thousands of autopsies, they say it's not possible that

608
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 8: he did it. So given the science, he was not

609
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 8: with her when she was killed. Game over.

610
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: Roderick Reid and his wife Juanna have put everything careers,

611
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: social lives, personal matters on hold to advocate for Rodney

612
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: and found time to sit down with me. Roderick, Welcome

613
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: to awful conviction. I'm sorry you're here, but hopefully we'll

614
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: be able to help make a difference together and get

615
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: the justice that we all want for Rodney. I wanted

616
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: to ask you about growing up with your older brother.

617
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: What was your childhood like? Was it a happy childhood?

618
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 2: Oh?

619
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, we had a good childhood. Matter of fact, I

620
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 5: come from a large family. I got five brothers. Wow,

621
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 5: the five brothers, Rodney is the fourth and nine, I'm

622
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 5: the fifth. He always want a little brother, and when

623
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 5: I came along, he had one, and he doted over me.

624
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 5: He's been there every part of my life since I

625
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 5: can remember, up until.

626
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety eight when they convicted them of this crime.

627
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: And when did you find out about Stacy's murder?

628
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 5: We found about it out about it over the news,

629
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 5: and me and Rodney talked about it, and his assumption was,

630
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 5: I bet you I know that Jimmy Fanill did this,

631
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 5: you know.

632
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: And that's when I said, man, say, I told you

633
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: you know. That's when I told your souls started. But

634
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: at that.

635
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 5: Time we had no idea. We never dreamed Rodney would

636
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 5: be charged for Stacy's murder.

637
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: What was that saying that your cousin that you almost

638
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: poortends this horrible scenario.

639
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: It's never good to know a dead white woman, something

640
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 2: to that effect.

641
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: It's profound and chilling when you think about how it

642
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: actually played out in real life. Knowing the history of

643
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: how many black men were lynched for allegedly having sex,

644
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: whether they did or didn't with a white woman, And

645
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: those weren't even cases in which an officer of the

646
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: law was involved as a fiance or anything else. And

647
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: in fact, I can't help saying this. It feels like

648
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: we're doing everything we can to prevent it. But if

649
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: the State of Texas goes forward this execution, it's hard

650
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: to call it anything other than a modern day lynching.

651
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is. It's murder.

652
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 5: In my eyes, they committed crimes when they convicted my

653
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 5: brother by withholding evidence, by not giving them trial, by

654
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 5: and not testing all the dinner. And now they said

655
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 5: their site's on taking his life. And that is something

656
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 5: that I cannot just sit back and say nothing or

657
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 5: do nothing about. That is something that I have to

658
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 5: with every fiber in my body, stand up against and

659
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 5: just get a story out here, to do all.

660
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 2: That I can do.

661
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 5: You know, That's what me and my family, that's what

662
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 5: we're striving to do all that we can do.

663
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: And you are doing all that you can do. And

664
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: it's become a major national news story and a major

665
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: cause as more and more people have become aware that

666
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: this is such a not only tragic mischaracter justice, but

667
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: also such an obvious mischaracter justice. Yes, you've been out there,

668
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: You've been meeting with everybody, You've been on TV shows,

669
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: you've been with sister Helen, you've been criss crossing the

670
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 1: country dropping everything else that's important to you to fight

671
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: this fight. Yeah, and my hat's off to you. How

672
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: much hope do you have that justice will be delayed

673
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: but not denied in this case.

674
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 5: I'm very confident that after the world sees this, because

675
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 5: I'm the backup my mom. Quote my mom, when they

676
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 5: convicted my brother on that day, she said, y'all may

677
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 5: do what every other going to try to do to

678
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 5: my baby, but I guarantee you the whole world will

679
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 5: know about it. And when she said that, I didn't

680
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 5: realize that that's what's really what it was going to take.

681
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 5: So I have great hope, in faith and confidence that

682
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,479
Speaker 5: my brother will be vindicated and.

683
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 2: He is going to come home alive and well. I

684
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: believe that. I have to believe that.

685
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 5: I can't put nothing negative in my mind, I can't

686
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 5: use my energy in that way.

687
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 4: I believe it too.

688
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: And we're you know, there's there's so many good people

689
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: involved in this fight. Now, Yes it is, and it's

690
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: growing every day.

691
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: It's growing every day every.

692
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: Day, and credit to you for driving that forward. So Roger,

693
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: people are listening. Now, what can somebody saying, hollio, what

694
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: can I do?

695
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 2: First off?

696
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 5: I tell everybody Contact Governor Greg Abbott, okay, call his office,

697
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 5: writer's office. Do the same with Ken Paxton, the Board

698
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 5: of Pardons and Paroles. Contact them, Contact even Brian Gertz

699
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 5: bashtop County District Attorney's office. Pass the word. Tell everybody.

700
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 5: Tag everybody on your social media sites. Help us get

701
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 5: this word out, tell the story, Tell the story. Refer

702
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 5: people to our website Facebook Forward slash read just his initiative.

703
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 5: That's the family's website. My mom Sandra Reid as a

704
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 5: president with us.

705
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: So once again, that's Facebook dot com slash read Justice initiative.

706
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: That's Facebook dot com slash read Justice initiative. Go to

707
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: Innocenceproject dot org. Follow at Innocence Project on Instagram posting

708
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: about Rodney every day. I'm posting about him just about

709
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: every day on my Instagram at It's Jason Flomm. I

710
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: appreciate you being here to, you know, to shed light

711
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: on this terrible injustice and to try to, you know,

712
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: raise more awareness maybe there's someone listening who knows the

713
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: governor or who has outreach. Uh, someone who's listening who

714
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: can write an article or blog or do whatever it is,

715
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: or raise attention, raise hell, because if not, it's going

716
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: to be a very bad day in Texas and in America.

717
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: At this point, we have a feature in this show.

718
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: It's my favorite part of the show, and this is

719
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: the part of the show that I call closing arguments.

720
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: It's where, first of all, I thank you Roger for

721
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: coming to New York, being here in the studio with us,

722
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: doing everything that you're doing. And now I get to

723
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: kick back and turn my microphone off and leave it

724
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: up to you for what I call closing arguments.

725
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 5: What I want everybody to know is that Read Justice Initiative,

726
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 5: it's not just about Rodney. It's about other people that

727
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 5: find themselves in a similar situation. We're about getting justice

728
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 5: for not just for Rodney, but for Stacy, and we

729
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 5: want to help anybody out there that we can help

730
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 5: along the way. But just know that right now, after

731
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 5: we get Ridney home, we're going to be there to

732
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 5: help anybody that needs help in the capacity that we can.

733
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 5: When we first started this thing, it was all about Rodney.

734
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 5: Now we see that, Hey, there's a million other Rodney

735
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 5: reads out there, and with the firing tenacity that we

736
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 5: have and bringing Rodney home, we're going to have the

737
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 5: same to Nasty seeking justice and abolishing the death pildy,

738
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 5: that's what we're want to.

739
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: Do, hey Man, once again, closing arguments with Bryce Benjett,

740
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: We at.

741
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 3: The Innocence Project are continuing to work on this case. Literally,

742
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 3: we will be filing appeals in every court available, and

743
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 3: we will investigate leads. So if there are folks out

744
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 3: there who may know something who have not come forward,

745
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 3: please reach out at the Innocenceproject dot org and there

746
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 3: is a petition that you can sign up for, but

747
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 3: you can also send an email generally which will ultimately

748
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 3: get to me about any information that you have. Again,

749
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 3: this is an active investigation.

750
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: Www. Dot Innocence Project dot org. Put Rodney Reid in

751
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: the subject line. Bryce Benjett as our guest and is

752
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: Rodney's lead attorney.

753
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 3: We will investigate information that we get. And obviously this

754
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 3: is a concern for everybody in our society because when

755
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 3: we enforce a judgment like this, it is in the

756
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 3: name of the people and so if this is something

757
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 3: that you are not comfortable with, and I don't think

758
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 3: you should be, you should make your voice hurt and

759
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 3: stand up for what's right in a case like this,

760
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 3: Doctor Phil.

761
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 8: You know, we're sitting here in November, and twenty two

762
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 8: Thanksgivings and twenty two Christmases have gone by with Rodney

763
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 8: Reid not being able to touch a member of his family.

764
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 8: And twenty two Thanksgivings and twenty two Christmases have gone

765
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 8: by with him thinking that all the people that he

766
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 8: does see are there to kill him. They're just waiting

767
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 8: for a green light to take his life. And I

768
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 8: am convinced that he's there with the full knowledge that

769
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 8: he did not do the crime that he's in there for.

770
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 8: And we have an opportunity to mark this holiday season

771
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 8: by giving him the gift of his life back. And

772
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 8: you know, sometimes we think that in this world we're born,

773
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 8: live and die and never make a difference. This is

774
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 8: one of those times that you can make a difference.

775
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 8: It doesn't take money, it doesn't take time. It just

776
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 8: takes your presence and you stepping up and saying I

777
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 8: stand with Rodney Reid and all the other people that

778
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 8: want him out of prison, and that includes law enforcement officers,

779
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 8: state and federal legislators, people from all walks of life.

780
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 8: Let's do a good thing. The governor of Texas is

781
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 8: a former judge, and I think he's a fair man,

782
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 8: and I think if he hears enough of us speak

783
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 8: in a respectful way. I haven't gone to Austin and

784
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 8: made a big grand stand show running up the steps

785
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 8: of the Capitol with my hair on fire, trying to

786
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 8: embarrass the governor and all that. I haven't done that.

787
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 8: I've been very respectful in the way that we've gone

788
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 8: about this, and I intend to continue to do so

789
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 8: if we keep making progress here and now is the

790
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 8: time to step up and make a difference. We're coming

791
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 8: up on three million signatures for this petition for clemency.

792
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 8: I would sure like to see that at ten million,

793
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 8: there's a point at which they simply cannot ignore the outcry.

794
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 8: Let's take this time to give him the gift of

795
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 8: his life back.

796
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: And now, with a heavy heart, but with optimism, I

797
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: am going to introduce our featured guest, Rodney Reid.

798
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 6: One thing that I really missed was really being a

799
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 6: father to my kids, you know, and and really they

800
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 6: have an opportunity to be the grandfather to my grandchildren.

801
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,919
Speaker 6: You know, I just look forward to being out there

802
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 6: with my family, with my friends, with my loved one,

803
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 6: with my supporters. I would really love to meet all

804
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 6: my supporters because I feel that the support that has

805
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 6: been generated behind me, and that's been a real push

806
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 6: be to keep me going. You know, when I when

807
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 6: I read their mail, read their letters. A lot of

808
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 6: them I don't respond to, you know, but then there's

809
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 6: a there's so much mail. I really don't have time

810
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 6: to respond to all of them because then I have

811
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 6: to I do have to get sleep, trying to get

812
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 6: some sleep. But knowing that the people that are behind me,

813
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 6: that are advocating for me, you know, I can name

814
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 6: them all, Julie, Judy, Tiffany, Mary Bath. Yeah, they're are

815
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 6: my real push and my mom, my brothers, and my daughter,

816
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 6: my granddaughter's beautiful smile. You know that that that keeps me,

817
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 6: that inspires me when I see a beautiful smile. I

818
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 6: look forward to holding them before they get too damn big.

819
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 6: It's just so much, so much State of Texas is

820
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 6: trying to take my life, trying to excute me, drive me,

821
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 6: to a table and inject my body with poisons. Don't

822
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 6: sit back and just let this happen. Just stay out,

823
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 6: stay involved.

824
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you

825
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.

826
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 4: It really helps.

827
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: And I'm a proud donor to the NSCIS project, and

828
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very

829
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: import and cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions.

830
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: Go to Innison's project dot org to learn how to

831
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team,

832
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show

833
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be

834
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Rowful Conviction and

835
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Rowful Conviction podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason

836
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in

837
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one