WEBVTT - Techstuff Classic: The Sewing Machine

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<v Speaker 1>Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff works dot com. Hey guys, welcome to Tech Stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland, and today is another Saturday

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<v Speaker 1>morning rerun episode where we take a classic episode of

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<v Speaker 1>tech Stuff and we play it for you in case

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<v Speaker 1>you didn't have a chance to listen to it when

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<v Speaker 1>it originally aired. I mean, this show has been going

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<v Speaker 1>on for ten years, so I know not everybody can

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<v Speaker 1>do a deep dive into the archives, and this one

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<v Speaker 1>I think is really really exciting. Now. Throughout the history

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<v Speaker 1>of tech Stuff, I've had the opportunity to have lots

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<v Speaker 1>of different interesting guests on the show, including other hosts

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<v Speaker 1>of How Stuff Work shows, And in this episode, Holly Fry,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the co hosts of Stuff You Missed in

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<v Speaker 1>History Class, joined the show to talk about an enormous

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<v Speaker 1>patent war and and not talking about Samsung and Apple,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about sewing machines. Yep, the Humble sewing machine

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<v Speaker 1>was the centerpiece of a patent war that got pretty ugly,

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<v Speaker 1>and Holly and I talked not just about that, but

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<v Speaker 1>about the technology and its cultural impact. This episode originally

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<v Speaker 1>published on October thirteenth, two thousand and fourteen. I hope

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<v Speaker 1>you enjoy this classic episode of tech Stuff. So before

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<v Speaker 1>we jump into the sordid history of the sewing machine,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought I would remind folks what a patent is.

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<v Speaker 1>What's all about. So patents are that's a set of

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<v Speaker 1>exclusive rights granted by government some form of agency that

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<v Speaker 1>has authority to an inventor or an assignee for the

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<v Speaker 1>use of an invention. Now, an invention does not have

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<v Speaker 1>to be a complete thing all by itself. It could

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<v Speaker 1>be a component of a thing, like if you were

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<v Speaker 1>to have a full invention. Let's say it's a washing machine,

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<v Speaker 1>because we've done a tech Stuff episode about washing machines,

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<v Speaker 1>and you come up with a way to improve washing

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<v Speaker 1>machines so that they wash clothes uh more thoroughly or

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<v Speaker 1>without as much bashing around, so the clothing doesn't take

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<v Speaker 1>as much of a beating. And you come up with

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<v Speaker 1>that that improvement, and then you patent it. You can

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<v Speaker 1>do that, that's perfectly acceptable, and then any washing machine

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<v Speaker 1>that would use that particular improvement would have to either

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<v Speaker 1>have been made by you or have received your permission

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<v Speaker 1>to use that specific technology. Yes, so patents can be

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<v Speaker 1>for a full invention with all the different components, or

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<v Speaker 1>it can be just a tiny little thing that's an improvement.

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<v Speaker 1>The point of it is the reason why you would

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<v Speaker 1>want to patent it is that you get those exclusive

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<v Speaker 1>rights to use that technology. Now, in return for that,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to disclose how that technology works. You submit

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<v Speaker 1>a patent application that has a full description of the

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<v Speaker 1>mechanism and the purpose of your invention, and that becomes

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<v Speaker 1>publicly available, and once the patent expires, which they do,

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<v Speaker 1>anyone can actus that information and make use of it.

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<v Speaker 1>But during the course of that patent, that the lifespan

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<v Speaker 1>of that patent, it's all you, boss. They got to

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<v Speaker 1>come through you. Yeah, Although that is an interesting one

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<v Speaker 1>related to what we're talking about today, because there were

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<v Speaker 1>several instances on the road to the sewing machine actually

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<v Speaker 1>becoming a fully fledged thing where there were some FIBs

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<v Speaker 1>told in the patent filings that they could keep their

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<v Speaker 1>proprietary information to themselves, so when people tried to replicate them,

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<v Speaker 1>they did not always work. Right. See, you could if

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<v Speaker 1>you wanted to, if you invented something, there's nothing nothing

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<v Speaker 1>that requires you to get a patent, you could keep

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<v Speaker 1>it secret and say this magical technology is mine and

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<v Speaker 1>mine alone. But the danger of that, of course, is

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<v Speaker 1>if someone gets hold of it and figures out how

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<v Speaker 1>it works, they could then make the same thing with

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<v Speaker 1>and you would have no protection. Only could they make

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<v Speaker 1>the same thing, they could file a patent for it,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you would no longer be able to use

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<v Speaker 1>the thing you invented. Yeah, it's all about first rights

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<v Speaker 1>so as it turns out, And we haven't even gotten

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<v Speaker 1>into the complication of filing for a patent in one

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<v Speaker 1>country versus filing for a paton and another. But we

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<v Speaker 1>we've hemmed in hod long enough about patents. Let's start off.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me what what was sewing before the sewing machine. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>most people would probably recognize it if they thought about

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<v Speaker 1>pre sewing machines sewing, they would think of an needle

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<v Speaker 1>and thread. But even way before that, there were people

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<v Speaker 1>using bones and sticks to kind of poke holes into fabrics,

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<v Speaker 1>usually leathers, and then they would pass a lace through.

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<v Speaker 1>It was not all one continuous thing where the lace

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<v Speaker 1>was attached to the the boner stick, and then they

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<v Speaker 1>added the eye that circle that the whatever you're lacing

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<v Speaker 1>material passes through. The thing that confounds me whenever I

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<v Speaker 1>have to threaten. Many people say that I think you

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<v Speaker 1>either got it or you don't. I don't got it. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I hope I keep it forever, because I have a

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<v Speaker 1>few friends who are saying they're getting to the age

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<v Speaker 1>and their eyesight isn't letting them keep it anymore. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so that eventually that I was added and people were

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<v Speaker 1>able to do it all in one fell swoop where

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<v Speaker 1>they poked the whole am, passed the binding material through,

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<v Speaker 1>and that also developed things like embroidery. But it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>really until the Industrial Revolution that stitching became mechanized. And

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<v Speaker 1>even pre Industrial Revolution in the mid seventeen hundreds where

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<v Speaker 1>kind of industry was first starting to get seated, is

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<v Speaker 1>really where we started having first people on record actually

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<v Speaker 1>filing things. Right. So you have Charles Wisenthal here who

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<v Speaker 1>received a patent for a needle for a sewing machine,

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<v Speaker 1>but it had a distinct disadvantage and that it was

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<v Speaker 1>a design for a needle for a machine that didn't exist. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he just really felt like he had the needle situation

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<v Speaker 1>worked out and eventually the rest would follow. You've got

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<v Speaker 1>to really nail the needle, is his approach, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the needle. How it came to be where it is

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<v Speaker 1>today really took a lot of iterations. And his needle

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<v Speaker 1>um had was pointed on both ends, and it had

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<v Speaker 1>an eye, but the eye was in the middle, which

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<v Speaker 1>is not If anybody knows a modern sewing machine or

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<v Speaker 1>hand sewing needle, the eye is usually not in the middle. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So then we moved forward his s We have Thomas

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<v Speaker 1>sat who I love the title of his patent. We

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<v Speaker 1>talked about this in the History podcast. It's a succinct.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so delightful and just completely rebos. Do you want

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<v Speaker 1>to read it? Let me? Let me do this all right?

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<v Speaker 1>So he's an English cabinet maker, so uh sorry, listeners,

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<v Speaker 1>Here we go an entire new method of making and

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<v Speaker 1>completing shoes, boots, splatter, dashes, clogs, and other articles by

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<v Speaker 1>means and tools, and by means of tools and machines

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<v Speaker 1>also invented by me for that purpose, and of certain

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<v Speaker 1>compositions of the nature of Japan or Vanish, which will

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<v Speaker 1>be very advantageous in many useful applications. End quote. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>you just feel like this is sewing? As described by

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<v Speaker 1>a Monty Python sketch, It does feel like John Cleese

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<v Speaker 1>is the person who needs to deliver that patent title.

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<v Speaker 1>For me, it's Terry Jones, but we all have our favorite.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fair. You went more Welsh. That's all right, something's

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<v Speaker 1>fine with that. So he's actually describing three different machines

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<v Speaker 1>in this pattern. Um, so the second of the three,

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<v Speaker 1>which is why it's so crazy wordy, I mean Japan

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<v Speaker 1>and varnish, which are the words used for like these

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<v Speaker 1>coding um methods have nothing to do with stitching. But

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<v Speaker 1>it kind of lumped everything together. And he was a

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<v Speaker 1>cabinet maker. I think maybe he didn't like to file

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of paper. Yeah, it's probably one of those

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<v Speaker 1>things where we thought, goodness, gracious, this is a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of work. Let's let's just lump it all together. One

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<v Speaker 1>very wordy document will cover me. So the second part

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<v Speaker 1>of his patent was actually the one for stitching, and

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<v Speaker 1>it really wasn't terribly practical. It had a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>components that we actually associate with modern showing machines. So

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<v Speaker 1>it had the arm with the needle, it had continuous

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<v Speaker 1>thread from a spool, uh, and it had a table

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<v Speaker 1>set up that the cloth would sit on. And those

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<v Speaker 1>all still persist in some form or another. But his

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<v Speaker 1>is a case where there's no actual example of his

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<v Speaker 1>machine having been built, although in eighteen seventy three Newton Wilson,

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<v Speaker 1>who was from Great Britain, found the plans and he

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<v Speaker 1>did build this machine, but it did not work. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is one of those ones that we talked about

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit ago, where the suspicion is that he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't entirely disclose what he was getting. Leave a few

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<v Speaker 1>things out of the patent design so that folks don't

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<v Speaker 1>automatically go out there and actually start making one uh

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<v Speaker 1>one thing about patents, By the way, there's no guarantee

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<v Speaker 1>that your design has to work, and it has to

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<v Speaker 1>it has to be reasonably you know, the people at

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<v Speaker 1>the patent offices have to reasonably believe that you you

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<v Speaker 1>believe it will work the way you've designed it. But

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have to prove. Yeah, there's not a proofing

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<v Speaker 1>stage design. Yeah, you don't have to bring one in

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<v Speaker 1>and say, well, here, let me put it in motion

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<v Speaker 1>and show you that all the parts move the way

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<v Speaker 1>I've described it in the patent. It really is just

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<v Speaker 1>meant to prevent other people from making that same design

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<v Speaker 1>without your permission. All right. Well, then in eight four

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<v Speaker 1>we've got this story about Thomas Stone and James Henderson

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<v Speaker 1>who were issued a patent in France for their own

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<v Speaker 1>kind of sewing machine. Right. Yeah. It kind of created

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<v Speaker 1>an overcast stich. So if you don't know what that is,

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<v Speaker 1>I do not. If you see like a situation where

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<v Speaker 1>two pieces of cloth are bound together and there's a

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<v Speaker 1>stitch that passes through each one and kind of spirals

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<v Speaker 1>around the edges and then back through, that's an overcast

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<v Speaker 1>all right, Um, so this was similar. It's also called

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<v Speaker 1>a whip stitch when you do it by hand, so

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<v Speaker 1>it was very simple. But it could work on all

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<v Speaker 1>different kinds of fabrics, and it was able to stitch curves. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's not just a straight line like some of

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<v Speaker 1>the other devices will be talking about. Correct, Like a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of them will only go in a straight line,

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<v Speaker 1>but this one could handle curves. The one big drawback

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<v Speaker 1>of it, though, was that it did not have a

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<v Speaker 1>continuous thread feed, so there was a lot of stopping

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<v Speaker 1>and going and re threading of needles and fitting. So

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<v Speaker 1>it saved time. We think theoretically, I say that with

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<v Speaker 1>a question mark on purpose, right, then may maybe it

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<v Speaker 1>saves time for someone who just really hates the motion

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<v Speaker 1>of actually making a stitch well, or if you're doing

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<v Speaker 1>like large scale things like leathers and probably help. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's same year you have John Duncan of Glasgow here

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<v Speaker 1>patenting an embroidery machine, which is not quite the same

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<v Speaker 1>thing as a stitching machine. Correct. I mean it does

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<v Speaker 1>do stitches, but it's not the same sort of utilitarian

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<v Speaker 1>things that would hold together pants, right. Uh, they will

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<v Speaker 1>just make the pants beautiful. I've learned that through a

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<v Speaker 1>better experience. Uh. In seven we have Edward Walter Chapman

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<v Speaker 1>and Walter Chapman. It's not confusing at all receiving a

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<v Speaker 1>British patent three thousand, seventy eight. That's another thing that

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<v Speaker 1>I think is interesting. You look at the history of

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<v Speaker 1>sewing machines and you look at those patent numbers, and

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<v Speaker 1>when they're still in the four digit range, that's incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>If guys go to the patent I'll go to like

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<v Speaker 1>Google search for patents and look up any patent that's

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<v Speaker 1>been issued over the last couple of years. We're talking

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<v Speaker 1>in the millions here, Yeah, and this is when they

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<v Speaker 1>were still in the thousands, which is pretty incredible. It

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<v Speaker 1>really does show that the patent industry here was very young.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, this was the one that I aloud a

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<v Speaker 1>machine that had a needle that would not have to

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<v Speaker 1>pass all the way through the fabric. It could just

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<v Speaker 1>puncture it, uh slightly and then pull back out and

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<v Speaker 1>make the stitch that way, right, which is how modern

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<v Speaker 1>machines still were for the most part. I think there's

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of special tea machines that do different things.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, so it had two needles. One, as you said,

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<v Speaker 1>punched in and passed the thread down, another kind of

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<v Speaker 1>shuttled through it, and then it got pulled back up.

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<v Speaker 1>So um, continuous stitching via these two different thread feeds. Cool.

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<v Speaker 1>And then we have what my favorite name on our lists,

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<v Speaker 1>one of my favorites eight thirty So it's Bartelomy Timonier.

0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.800
<v Speaker 1>I love a good French name. Yeah, it's a great one.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there's two th in there, and as I recall,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a hard tea but I could be wrong. It

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<v Speaker 1>is it is, and his machine made a chain stitch.

0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.559
<v Speaker 1>And there are still machines very similar to this functioning today.

0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.839
<v Speaker 1>They're not used a whole lot because it's one of

0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.599
<v Speaker 1>those things. You may have even come across them periodically.

0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.839
<v Speaker 1>If you ever have like an article of thing it's

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.559
<v Speaker 1>maybe not super pricy, you may be bought it, you know,

0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.000
<v Speaker 1>a cheap store, and you pull one thread and the

0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.760
<v Speaker 1>whole thing starts coming out. That's often a chain stitch

0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.800
<v Speaker 1>because it's the one thread holding everything together, so there's

0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.920
<v Speaker 1>nothing stopping it from continuing to unravel. Right. So that's

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.480
<v Speaker 1>what I always get nervous now whenever I see a

0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.200
<v Speaker 1>loose thread. And I'm more of a snipper than a

0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.920
<v Speaker 1>than a tugger at this. I'm a yanker, but I

0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.080
<v Speaker 1>know I can fix it if it all goes right. Yeah,

0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.760
<v Speaker 1>for me, it's it's fixing means going out and buying

0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.480
<v Speaker 1>a new one. We'll come right back to our discussion

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.760
<v Speaker 1>about the Great Patent Wars and the sewing machine in

0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.240
<v Speaker 1>just a second, but first let's take a quick break

0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:46.320
<v Speaker 1>to thank our sponsor. Well. I love about this story

0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.720
<v Speaker 1>is it's interesting because it's a real life story that

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:57.040
<v Speaker 1>mirrors something that is um a popular misconception. And what

0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:58.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean by that is in the story you have

0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Toumonier who had a shop in Paris, Uh. He had

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.760
<v Speaker 1>lots of these different machines, eighty of them working at

0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:12.880
<v Speaker 1>a time, and Taylor's people who sewed by hand, stormed

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:17.560
<v Speaker 1>his store and destroyed some of the machinery because they

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.760
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to be put out of a job. And

0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.839
<v Speaker 1>the reason why I say this is interesting is that

0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 1>there's a story that we have told on tech stuff

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.480
<v Speaker 1>before that is erroneous and uh. And in fact I

0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.280
<v Speaker 1>have been guilty of of pushing this forward. The idea

0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.840
<v Speaker 1>of sabotage being named after sabo, as in the French

0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.080
<v Speaker 1>word for shoe. The story is that you had uh.

0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Often it was told about weavers who came in and

0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.520
<v Speaker 1>threw their shoes into large mechanized looms in order to

0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.000
<v Speaker 1>foul the workings and destroy them. As it turns out,

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.680
<v Speaker 1>that's not necessarily true. The first the first appearance of

0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.360
<v Speaker 1>the word sabotage doesn't come until in the written word,

0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.480
<v Speaker 1>as far as I can tell, until which tells me

0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:04.280
<v Speaker 1>that this incident, which happened in around the mid eighteen hundreds,

0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.240
<v Speaker 1>could have given birth to a word involving tailors that

0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.559
<v Speaker 1>would have replaced sabotage, and they just didn't capitalize on it.

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:17.160
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to include Timonier somehow Timony as I got

0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 1>totally Timoniate today at work in and they just ambushed me. Yeah.

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>So they came and destroyed his shop and he had

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 1>to flee. And he did get financial backing, uh so

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 1>that he could continue his work and develop new machines.

0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.800
<v Speaker 1>But unfortunately, uh, and he got some additional patents as well,

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.560
<v Speaker 1>both in France and in Britain. But the revolution kind

0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.720
<v Speaker 1>of caused his legacy to get put on the back burner.

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.920
<v Speaker 1>He turns out there were some important things that people

0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.320
<v Speaker 1>were attending to at the time. Yeah, not so much

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 1>with the let's make machines. Now we've got an American

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.160
<v Speaker 1>inventor coming up next, so let's just take a moment

0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.960
<v Speaker 1>to go America. Well, and he becomes very important in

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.440
<v Speaker 1>the patent battles, so as is Walter Hunt you're talking

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.720
<v Speaker 1>about here. Yeah. So he made a machine that it

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 1>created a lock stitch used to thread sources, very similar

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:11.760
<v Speaker 1>to the bobbing and school method you would see on

0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.600
<v Speaker 1>modern machines. Um and this you know, of course, was

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 1>different than the single thread chain stitch of Timoni. A

0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 1>successful machines and he kind of was a busy bee

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 1>he had a lot of inventions going at the same time,

0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 1>and so it wasn't like this sewing machine was his

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 1>baby and he had really put his heart and soul

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 1>into it. He was kind of like, no, nobody's ever

0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 1>gonna be interested in this, and he sold it. So

0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.240
<v Speaker 1>he sold the patent off to He didn't even have

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.960
<v Speaker 1>the patent. He just sold I go. That's why he

0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:41.520
<v Speaker 1>didn't even patent his invention. Yeah, I could use the money.

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.880
<v Speaker 1>He sold it to a man named George, a aerosmith

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.040
<v Speaker 1>and was basically like, yeah, well, you know, I'll fund

0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 1>some other projects with whatever I make off of this.

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 1>It's not that important. Um. As we said, he comes

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.920
<v Speaker 1>up later and becomes very important to remember him. And

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.480
<v Speaker 1>we'll also point out his machine was one that Jonathan

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.640
<v Speaker 1>referenced earlier that would only going straight lines. You couldn't

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 1>really work curves with it, right, so that that certainly

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:11.200
<v Speaker 1>limits its usefulness. Uh. Now, we also have to acknowledge

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 1>the fact that there's a challenge in really talking about

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>the history of the sewing machine because of an event

0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 1>that happened in that the mid eighteen hundreds, early to

0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.400
<v Speaker 1>mid eighteen hundreds. Yeah, we had a little bit of

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 1>a fire in the patent office. Yeah, as it turns

0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.520
<v Speaker 1>out patents are flammable. Yes, no one had pended the

0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.479
<v Speaker 1>the the not the inflammable that would also be flammable,

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.800
<v Speaker 1>but the impossible to burn patent. Yeah, And it wasn't

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 1>a time where they were making tons of backups. It

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 1>was kind of like, you file it and you go

0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 1>on your way. Because we're still in the thousands, they

0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.840
<v Speaker 1>haven't really gotten their game figured out yet, right, not

0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 1>to mention the fact that they're making Making duplicates is

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.360
<v Speaker 1>no easy task at this time, so they thought, well,

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 1>it's safe enough. Yeah, that fire was in eighteen thirty six,

0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.680
<v Speaker 1>so they really did not have a plan in place

0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.760
<v Speaker 1>to keep duplicate copy. And as a consequence, there are

0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.719
<v Speaker 1>actually a lot some sources will say that there are

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of kind of partial patent documents that still

0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.639
<v Speaker 1>exists that like they mentioned a needle, or they mentioned

0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:16.159
<v Speaker 1>something sewing related, but like the attribution portion of the

0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:18.320
<v Speaker 1>document has been too damaged and they don't know who

0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.600
<v Speaker 1>filed it. So there could be families out there that

0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.000
<v Speaker 1>could have, for all we know, inherited great wealth. But

0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.240
<v Speaker 1>we'll never know because the capriciousness of fire robbed them

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.120
<v Speaker 1>of their place in history. Fire and it's ways possibly

0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.359
<v Speaker 1>on Martha's vineyard. In eighteen forty two, we've got John J. Greenoff,

0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.359
<v Speaker 1>who is the first guy, first American, to get a

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.320
<v Speaker 1>patent for the sewing machine that we have a record

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:44.040
<v Speaker 1>of anyway. Um, So even though he made his invention

0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.280
<v Speaker 1>after Hunt had, Hunt had not patented it, And as

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>you have in your notes here, the aerosmith apparently never

0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.879
<v Speaker 1>got around the patenting it either. So, uh, this is

0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.120
<v Speaker 1>the first one in the American patent system. Yeah, he

0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:02.280
<v Speaker 1>there was no replication of his He basically kind of

0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 1>was one and done. Yes, so he made a prototype

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.440
<v Speaker 1>and then not a production model. Yeah, there's we don't

0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.200
<v Speaker 1>know if he didn't get funding or he just abandoned

0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 1>the idea and moved on to something else. But it

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.679
<v Speaker 1>was only a year later when the second US patent

0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.080
<v Speaker 1>for a sewing machine came about, and that was issued

0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.760
<v Speaker 1>to Benjamin W. Bean which is a great name, I know. Um,

0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.960
<v Speaker 1>and he created a unique development and that his machine

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.760
<v Speaker 1>was the first that actually fed the fabrics through gears.

0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:33.200
<v Speaker 1>So for the stitchers in the house, all three of us. Um,

0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.600
<v Speaker 1>that's similar to feed dogs. And if you don't stitch

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.159
<v Speaker 1>what a feed dog is. If you've ever looked at

0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.720
<v Speaker 1>the sewing machine, you may see these two. They almost

0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:41.440
<v Speaker 1>look like little feet that come up and kind of

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.399
<v Speaker 1>kick at your fabric as you're sewing, and they have

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.760
<v Speaker 1>rigid edges and that's kind of pulling your fabric through

0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.119
<v Speaker 1>as you go right, so you don't have to put

0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.200
<v Speaker 1>through as much effort, you don't have to worry about

0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:55.120
<v Speaker 1>misguiding the fabric. So it helps feed the fabric through

0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.520
<v Speaker 1>as you're stitching. Yes, sometimes it creates great drama and

0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.280
<v Speaker 1>it eats fabric, but not very often. Um and his

0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.000
<v Speaker 1>also had a clamp mechanism to attach it to a table,

0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 1>so that was also a new development. Uh, and there's

0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.200
<v Speaker 1>still machines made that do that. Also that year, in

0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:14.000
<v Speaker 1>eighteen forty three, we got George H. Corliss, who uh

0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, he was also a busy body making making

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 1>a steam engine. That's pretty cool. We did a full

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.240
<v Speaker 1>episode in Tech Stuff on steam engine. So if you

0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.600
<v Speaker 1>guys are are big into that and you really want

0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:27.360
<v Speaker 1>to know about the development of the steam engine, here's

0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.320
<v Speaker 1>a here's an interesting little effect. The original steam engines

0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.639
<v Speaker 1>didn't push with steam. They rather would pull by letting

0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:37.320
<v Speaker 1>steam condense and create a vacuum, thus pulling a piston

0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 1>down rather than pushing a piston out. But we go

0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.119
<v Speaker 1>into full detail and tech stuff, so I don't need

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.480
<v Speaker 1>to redo the whole thing. This pretty cool stuff. It

0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.120
<v Speaker 1>is exciting. It's actually not cool, it's actually quite hot.

0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:54.199
<v Speaker 1>But ump. So Corliss had what's considered the third u

0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:58.320
<v Speaker 1>S sewing machine patents. His performed what is called a

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.199
<v Speaker 1>saddle stitch, which is a specialized stitch that's used to

0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.159
<v Speaker 1>this day to join leather together. Uh, it kind of

0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 1>keeps it all stable. If anybody has ever tried to

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.800
<v Speaker 1>sew with leather, if you've had like a leather pouch

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>or anything, Uh, it can present some challenges in terms

0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.960
<v Speaker 1>of how it because it's so rugged usually and tough,

0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.119
<v Speaker 1>it will chew on threads and or even if you

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.800
<v Speaker 1>have a lacing lacing even though it's leather, also we'll

0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of get chewed up over time. So a saddle

0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.000
<v Speaker 1>stitch kind of gives you a tighter stitch and it

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.320
<v Speaker 1>prevents some of that friction. Okay. Cool, And then also

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.840
<v Speaker 1>just a year later, in eighteen forty four, we've got

0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.439
<v Speaker 1>James Rogers getting the fourth US sewing machine pen And

0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.639
<v Speaker 1>you may all wonder why we're covering every single patent.

0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:44.359
<v Speaker 1>The pen wars will make all clear. Everybody's gonna be

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.400
<v Speaker 1>really apparent, and I mean, it's it's it's important because

0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.280
<v Speaker 1>again we're trying to illustrate the fact that a lot

0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:56.640
<v Speaker 1>of these patents were not revolutionary devices that completely reinvented

0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.720
<v Speaker 1>the machine. They were sometimes incremental improvements that had a

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.399
<v Speaker 1>remarkable difference from earlier machines, but it was one tiny element, right,

0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily a full reworking. Yeah, so yeah, James Rogers

0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:15.000
<v Speaker 1>patent was really only had a tiny change to Bean's design,

0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.159
<v Speaker 1>and that was that the gears were kind of in

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:21.080
<v Speaker 1>a different place and that allowed him to be able

0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.280
<v Speaker 1>to design a different needle that was shaped a little

0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.760
<v Speaker 1>more simply and would be easier to replicate. Um. And

0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:31.040
<v Speaker 1>so pretty much every patent that came after this used

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.399
<v Speaker 1>this simpler setup that built on Bean's design. So I

0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.520
<v Speaker 1>really set a precedent here. But now we're going to

0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:39.800
<v Speaker 1>the start of the show. Okay, who's the star of

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the show because not being a big sewing machine guy,

0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.359
<v Speaker 1>but you watched Schoolhouse Rock growing up, right, I did

0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.440
<v Speaker 1>he was in it was he? Yeah? In the Mother

0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:55.639
<v Speaker 1>Necessity episode, I'll have to go watch my DVDs, theres alias,

0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.760
<v Speaker 1>can you help me with my sewing? So it's an

0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.680
<v Speaker 1>alias here we're talking and about Elias Howe Jr. Yes,

0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:04.560
<v Speaker 1>all right, And there's even a play on his name

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:06.840
<v Speaker 1>where he tells her he's gonna fix everything and she

0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:10.160
<v Speaker 1>says Alias how And it's very witty to the sewing

0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:17.160
<v Speaker 1>nerds in right, all three of youth. So Elias Howe

0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:22.600
<v Speaker 1>was born in Spencer, Massachusetts in eighteen nineteen. Uh, and

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.399
<v Speaker 1>when he was a teenager, he decided to go and

0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.199
<v Speaker 1>seek his fortune as a machinist, which was a brand

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.360
<v Speaker 1>new job in the Industrial Revolution. Yeah, he was kind

0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:33.480
<v Speaker 1>of he had some bravado. He was not afraid of

0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:35.679
<v Speaker 1>kind of breaking out on his own and making his

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:37.800
<v Speaker 1>way in the world. He certainly didn't appear to be

0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.439
<v Speaker 1>shy once we get into the back noors. Now, he

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:44.439
<v Speaker 1>was a very smart man. Yeah, so he's going to

0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:48.119
<v Speaker 1>Uh he ends up as a machinist overhearing some talk

0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:52.919
<v Speaker 1>about the idea of of a sewing machine and starts

0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:57.359
<v Speaker 1>to kind of apply his own ingenuity. How would I

0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:01.880
<v Speaker 1>achieve this sort of thing. So he's important to remember, yeah,

0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.399
<v Speaker 1>and he um So he was granted the fifth U S.

0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.119
<v Speaker 1>Patent in September of eighteen forty six. And it's one

0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:09.840
<v Speaker 1>of those things that I have to laugh because every

0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.600
<v Speaker 1>year when September comes around, you see the today on

0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.320
<v Speaker 1>this day, Alias how invented the sewing machine, and I'm like,

0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:17.840
<v Speaker 1>back up the truck. Not entirely accurate, right, It's like

0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.240
<v Speaker 1>like you know, as An invented the light bulb, all right, No,

0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:23.679
<v Speaker 1>as an improved and not a Eureka moment where it

0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 1>comes from nowhere, although he did sometimes say that like

0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.720
<v Speaker 1>he had it kind of fully universally on his own.

0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:33.840
<v Speaker 1>It's very tesla like to um So. This was patent

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.040
<v Speaker 1>number four thousand, seven fifty in the United States. You know,

0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:38.919
<v Speaker 1>the previous one we gave. The number two was the

0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.600
<v Speaker 1>British patent. So in both cases you see that these

0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:46.120
<v Speaker 1>are very very early on during the patent offices existence. Yeah,

0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:48.119
<v Speaker 1>they're numbering schemes were kind of neck and neck in

0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:50.520
<v Speaker 1>terms of where they were at in terms of um

0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:55.520
<v Speaker 1>uh accession order. Um So, this patent was actually his

0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:57.880
<v Speaker 1>second version of the machine that he patented he had

0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:01.640
<v Speaker 1>another prototype a year before that was capable of sewing,

0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:04.920
<v Speaker 1>but he um, he fine tuned it a little bit more.

0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.960
<v Speaker 1>And house patent is very important because it makes five

0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:12.880
<v Speaker 1>very specific claims about how the machine is going to work,

0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:18.320
<v Speaker 1>and they come up a lot in court battles like yeah,

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:20.439
<v Speaker 1>so this is where I was talking about how you

0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:23.680
<v Speaker 1>can make claims within a patent and those claims will

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:29.040
<v Speaker 1>protect elements of your invention. And claims can be everything

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:34.760
<v Speaker 1>from specific physical uh mechanical ways that the machine works

0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:39.959
<v Speaker 1>to UH specific method like an implementation. We see that

0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 1>today in ways that are are less um they're they're

0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 1>more difficult to understand because if you're talking about a

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.600
<v Speaker 1>physical machine, you can say the physical machine does it

0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:52.320
<v Speaker 1>in this way, and you can see whether or not

0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:54.640
<v Speaker 1>the machine is actually doing it in that way. When

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:57.520
<v Speaker 1>we talk about today, we're talking about stuff like you know,

0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:02.160
<v Speaker 1>resizing images by pinching or or moving your fingers further

0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:05.320
<v Speaker 1>apart from each other, and it starts to get a

0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:09.400
<v Speaker 1>little wibbly wobbly time you whiney when you are trying

0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:11.399
<v Speaker 1>to say, oh, well, this is this is a method

0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:14.720
<v Speaker 1>that is unique that I came up with, and no

0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:16.639
<v Speaker 1>one else can use it unless they come through me.

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:20.359
<v Speaker 1>That's it's one of those evolutions of the patent office

0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:24.160
<v Speaker 1>that we're still trying to kind of reconcile. Yeah, it's

0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:26.080
<v Speaker 1>not all black and white, which is why you get

0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.800
<v Speaker 1>into these huge battles and arguments and things go to court,

0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 1>and you hear about Apple having to pay money, but

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.800
<v Speaker 1>then Samsung has to fail the money right, and sometimes

0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:38.359
<v Speaker 1>they just sometimes everyone just ends up like, well, let's

0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:40.000
<v Speaker 1>just all say we gave each other the money we

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:43.640
<v Speaker 1>were supposed to and call today. But anyway, there were

0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:46.600
<v Speaker 1>these five elements. Did you want to cover any of them?

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:49.320
<v Speaker 1>You have all of them written out here are and

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:51.520
<v Speaker 1>they're written out long because I cut and pasted it

0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:55.399
<v Speaker 1>from another document. I'll kind of do the short version. Okay.

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:57.639
<v Speaker 1>So the first was he describes how he's going to

0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:00.919
<v Speaker 1>form a seam by using a curve needle to go

0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:04.760
<v Speaker 1>through the cloth and a bobbin to kind of connect

0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:08.040
<v Speaker 1>to that and and make the stitch, similar to how

0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:11.480
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about before this to thread version. The second

0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:13.359
<v Speaker 1>is how this thread is going to get lifted and

0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:16.120
<v Speaker 1>pass through the needle eye. There's a lifting rod involved

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:20.280
<v Speaker 1>that's very important. The third is how the thread is

0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:23.240
<v Speaker 1>going to be passed out by the shuttle, so it

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:24.800
<v Speaker 1>has a lot to do with the tension and how

0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:29.359
<v Speaker 1>it passes through at a consistent rate. The fourth is

0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:33.800
<v Speaker 1>um how a couple of levers go together and enact

0:26:34.320 --> 0:26:37.160
<v Speaker 1>their sort of mechanisms on the string or the thread

0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:40.960
<v Speaker 1>that's involved. And the fifth is how the cloth is

0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:45.040
<v Speaker 1>held in place by a baster plate, uh, which is

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:47.560
<v Speaker 1>still a thing that happens like now, if you drop

0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:50.160
<v Speaker 1>your foot down on your machine, it's kind of pressing

0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:52.400
<v Speaker 1>the cloth onto the plate of your machine, and that's

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:54.080
<v Speaker 1>that keeps it from going just flying away when you're

0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:57.320
<v Speaker 1>trying to stitch on it very important as I understand it,

0:26:57.400 --> 0:27:00.680
<v Speaker 1>in the sewing process. Yes, most machines made today won't

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:02.760
<v Speaker 1>won't stitch at all if you don't have the press

0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:05.119
<v Speaker 1>your foot down because they know they'll just be wasting

0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:09.480
<v Speaker 1>everyone's time. So how didn't meet with immediate success with

0:27:09.560 --> 0:27:13.640
<v Speaker 1>this design? Actually, he tried for a while to get

0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:16.439
<v Speaker 1>people here in the United States excited about it, and

0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:19.080
<v Speaker 1>no one seemed to really give him much attention. So

0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:24.840
<v Speaker 1>he ended up selling the patent rights to a or

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 1>at least the British patent rights, I should say to

0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:31.920
<v Speaker 1>William Thomas for the princely sum of two fifty British

0:27:31.960 --> 0:27:35.880
<v Speaker 1>pounds sterling. Uh and uh, I like, I like the other.

0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Note here He also adapted his machine to make umbrellas

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:42.840
<v Speaker 1>and corsets. That's fabulous. Yeah, I mean, I'm in the

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:45.600
<v Speaker 1>market are both right now? So well, when we talked

0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 1>about this on History, Tracy was saying, I never thought

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:50.919
<v Speaker 1>about it before, but umbrellas, of course, it's really are

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:53.520
<v Speaker 1>quite a lot alike, and that you know, you have

0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:56.919
<v Speaker 1>a casing and should have these rigid elements that passed

0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:58.919
<v Speaker 1>through it and hold it all in shape. And at

0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:00.920
<v Speaker 1>this point it would have been all deal bone, course tree.

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 1>So it was very similar to an umbrella, right, except

0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:07.119
<v Speaker 1>that the main difference, at least in my experience, is

0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:10.719
<v Speaker 1>that it's a relief to have an umbrella and a

0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:13.479
<v Speaker 1>relief to get rid of a courset. Don't get it started.

0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:15.439
<v Speaker 1>Of courses are good for you if they're well fitted.

0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:18.080
<v Speaker 1>They protect your back, they give you a great posture.

0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:20.919
<v Speaker 1>Those tight lasers are a whole different universe. Yeah. I

0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.800
<v Speaker 1>worked at the Georgia Renaissance Festival, so I have a

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:29.880
<v Speaker 1>very specific experience of watching ladies. A good foundation courset

0:28:30.400 --> 0:28:32.679
<v Speaker 1>will keep your clothes in place that holds up all

0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:35.480
<v Speaker 1>those Victorian layers if it's a Victorian courset. So I'm

0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:37.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of going from the time period we're talking about.

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:40.360
<v Speaker 1>They're they're not mystery torture devices. Well really were not

0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:42.680
<v Speaker 1>intended for that. You will clearly need to have you

0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:45.920
<v Speaker 1>come in and give a talk because because those ladies,

0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 1>let me tell there is a lot of technology and

0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:51.120
<v Speaker 1>physics and of course I'm got to support from below

0:28:51.320 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 1>or from above. It's fabulous. Well, moving on in the

0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:57.800
<v Speaker 1>the evolution of the sewing machine, we move up to

0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:03.880
<v Speaker 1>and the six you wes sewing machine patent from John A. Bradshaw,

0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:07.520
<v Speaker 1>which was a little bit snarky, was it. Yeah? He

0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:11.360
<v Speaker 1>talks about how is patent design his patent and kind

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 1>of says that it's bungling and it's an incumbrance to

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:16.680
<v Speaker 1>the action of the machine when he talks about the needle.

0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:21.040
<v Speaker 1>So not only can how not get manufacturers interested in

0:29:21.120 --> 0:29:26.440
<v Speaker 1>his device, he has the next uh patent UH petitioner

0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:30.640
<v Speaker 1>completely dis him totally trash in his work. Even while

0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:33.040
<v Speaker 1>he's building on it, he's still kind of like he

0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:35.160
<v Speaker 1>was onto something but I I really have this thing

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 1>figured out, Like, okay, well I can tell you why

0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:42.240
<v Speaker 1>it didn't do great when the manufacturers wonderful. So et

0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:45.800
<v Speaker 1>nine we get how coming back to the United States. Uh,

0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:48.440
<v Speaker 1>he had gone to England, like we said to say,

0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:52.520
<v Speaker 1>to sell the British patent off. And when he comes

0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:55.720
<v Speaker 1>back he sees that that that what had been kind

0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:59.360
<v Speaker 1>of a quiet, little tiny niche industry was starting to

0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 1>take off. Yeah. The seventh patent for the sewing machine

0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:06.040
<v Speaker 1>have been issued to Charles Morey and Joseph B. Johnson

0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:09.320
<v Speaker 1>in eighteen forty nine, and they were really some of

0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:10.960
<v Speaker 1>the first two that were like, we need to start

0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:12.720
<v Speaker 1>selling this and making a bunch of them. And even

0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:16.120
<v Speaker 1>before they received their patent, they were selling machine, which

0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:18.520
<v Speaker 1>is perfectly fine. I mean, it's not like you don't

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:20.600
<v Speaker 1>have to have a In fact, you often we'll see

0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:24.400
<v Speaker 1>today things like patent pending where people are trying to

0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:29.560
<v Speaker 1>capitalize on an idea because patent applications and patent grants

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:32.920
<v Speaker 1>can take a long time, especially today now that you

0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:38.280
<v Speaker 1>have uh, you know, an exponentially larger number of applications

0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:40.240
<v Speaker 1>coming into the patent office than you did way back

0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:44.160
<v Speaker 1>in the mid eighteen hundreds. Yeah, there were some other

0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:47.640
<v Speaker 1>people that were trying to improve on Marie and Johnson's

0:30:47.640 --> 0:30:50.280
<v Speaker 1>machine in the middle of eighteen forty nine. So that

0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:53.479
<v Speaker 1>same year they got their patent, there was a man

0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:56.600
<v Speaker 1>named Jotham s Conan, and he was issued a patent

0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:00.280
<v Speaker 1>based on a modification he made to their machine which

0:31:00.320 --> 0:31:01.960
<v Speaker 1>just kind of altered the way that the cloth was

0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:04.840
<v Speaker 1>held during the stitching. But his never really went anywhere.

0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:09.280
<v Speaker 1>He didn't manufacture, he didn't sell. But that same day

0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:13.000
<v Speaker 1>that he got his patent, another important person was getting

0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:16.479
<v Speaker 1>a patent, John Batch Elder. So yeah, this was the

0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:20.960
<v Speaker 1>continuous sewing mechanism and at an endless belt to feed

0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:26.200
<v Speaker 1>the cloth into the machine. Yeah, thank you, John, to

0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:28.960
<v Speaker 1>make sure that you don't have to put in all

0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:31.840
<v Speaker 1>that work yourself. Yeah, But the really important thing is

0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:34.800
<v Speaker 1>who Batch Older sold his patent too. And here we

0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 1>come up to the first name in this podcast that

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:46.760
<v Speaker 1>I recognize. I am Singer the Singer sewing machine. Everybody

0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:50.120
<v Speaker 1>knows that one. Well, I mean, you know, my my

0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:54.920
<v Speaker 1>my grandmother and my my mom both had Singer sewing machines.

0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:57.479
<v Speaker 1>In fact that there's the both of them still exist

0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 1>and my parents. It's a it's like a little uh

0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:03.320
<v Speaker 1>table that's next to the front door of their house.

0:32:03.920 --> 0:32:07.120
<v Speaker 1>But it's an old Singer sewing machine that that's operated

0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:10.920
<v Speaker 1>by by pedal. Uh So, yeah, it's it's the one

0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:14.320
<v Speaker 1>of those names that I think most people associate it

0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:16.520
<v Speaker 1>with sewing. Pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, because I mean it's

0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 1>still a name. So yep, they're still making you don't

0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:21.200
<v Speaker 1>hear about a lot of how machines these days. The

0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:23.640
<v Speaker 1>singers still going. We have a little bit more to

0:32:23.680 --> 0:32:26.320
<v Speaker 1>say about the Singer sewing machine and patents, but before

0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 1>we get to that, let's take another quick break to

0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:39.080
<v Speaker 1>thank our sponsor. We finally reached the point now where

0:32:39.120 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 1>things have come to ahead. We've got the the snippy

0:32:42.040 --> 0:32:45.880
<v Speaker 1>little patent applications out of the way. Now it's time

0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:50.800
<v Speaker 1>to really get down to fisticuffs legally speaking. And uh

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:55.240
<v Speaker 1>it's the eighteen fifties where we get that first enormous

0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:57.800
<v Speaker 1>patent war. And it all has to do with the

0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:01.440
<v Speaker 1>fact that these different little elements that have been improved

0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:03.960
<v Speaker 1>upon over time, there were a lot of arguments about

0:33:04.480 --> 0:33:09.320
<v Speaker 1>who actually had ownership of those ideas and in what implementations,

0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:13.440
<v Speaker 1>and who was owed money by whom, and it got ugly,

0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 1>really really ugly. So there was a a man by

0:33:17.800 --> 0:33:20.240
<v Speaker 1>the name of Allan B. Wilson, and he in eighteen

0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:23.960
<v Speaker 1>fifty was working on this lockstitch machine very similar to

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:27.560
<v Speaker 1>the modern machine, and his mechanism could also go forward

0:33:27.600 --> 0:33:30.840
<v Speaker 1>and backwards, which we had not encountered before. Uh, And

0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:33.240
<v Speaker 1>he applied for his patent. He had made a second

0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.440
<v Speaker 1>prototype model and the people that owned the brad Shop

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 1>patent from eight got wind of this, and we're like,

0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:42.720
<v Speaker 1>hold on a minute. For four Uh, we owned some

0:33:42.800 --> 0:33:45.360
<v Speaker 1>of the concepts you're using. The double pointed shuttle that

0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 1>made up a part of his machine was something that

0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:51.640
<v Speaker 1>was part of their patent, uh, they claimed, And that

0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:55.360
<v Speaker 1>claim was not accurate. It was complete bunk. So however,

0:33:55.960 --> 0:33:59.160
<v Speaker 1>they think, well, let's throw a wrench into this one. However,

0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:01.600
<v Speaker 1>they had all ers and Wilson didn't, so he could

0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 1>not fight them. So we get down to using the

0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:09.160
<v Speaker 1>old idea of well, if if we can't, if we

0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:12.480
<v Speaker 1>can't suppress this idea, one way, we can just kind

0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:14.320
<v Speaker 1>of run them out because we've got we've got a

0:34:14.400 --> 0:34:19.880
<v Speaker 1>larger reserve of cash. Yes, so uh, he had to

0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:22.280
<v Speaker 1>give up half of his claim to a p Kline

0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:25.560
<v Speaker 1>and Edward Lee, who at that point held the Bradshaw patent,

0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:29.520
<v Speaker 1>and that was in late eighteen fifty in November, and

0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:31.680
<v Speaker 1>then after a little while he just sold them the

0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:33.799
<v Speaker 1>rest of his interest. He didn't want to mess with

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:36.759
<v Speaker 1>it anymore. He retained very limited rights. That's a very

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:39.879
<v Speaker 1>sad story there where he essentially he was beaten down. Yeah,

0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:42.640
<v Speaker 1>he really had the goods in terms of his invention

0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:46.120
<v Speaker 1>to have been the singer of this story in terms

0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:48.719
<v Speaker 1>of name recognition, but because he just didn't have the

0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 1>means to fight anybody that made a claim against him

0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:54.440
<v Speaker 1>and vanished into history and to resulted to the wound.

0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:59.280
<v Speaker 1>He would use his name in official advertisements. Yeah, people

0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:03.920
<v Speaker 1>recognize that he had invented something really pretty exciting because

0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:06.359
<v Speaker 1>it could do these things that previous machines couldn't, And

0:35:06.400 --> 0:35:09.920
<v Speaker 1>so their advertisements went A B. Wilson's sewing machine, the

0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:13.360
<v Speaker 1>best and only practical sewing machine, not larger than a

0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:17.000
<v Speaker 1>ladies workbox, for the trifling sum of thirty five dollars.

0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:20.560
<v Speaker 1>So not only does he not get the benefit of

0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:24.239
<v Speaker 1>actually owning this device that he invented, he then has

0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 1>the indignity of having his name used in the advertising

0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:30.120
<v Speaker 1>while this other company makes money off of it. Yeah,

0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:33.200
<v Speaker 1>he really did get shafted. So meanwhile, we've got to

0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:37.759
<v Speaker 1>lie as how who He's no dummy, No, he's witnessing

0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:41.400
<v Speaker 1>this and realizing some stuff is going down. Maybe I

0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:45.200
<v Speaker 1>need to kind of circle my little my proverbial wagons here.

0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:48.359
<v Speaker 1>So he decides that he's going to protect the rights

0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:52.800
<v Speaker 1>to royalties from his inventions. Uh, and anything that could

0:35:52.840 --> 0:35:57.319
<v Speaker 1>trace elements of the products being sold back to one

0:35:57.360 --> 0:36:00.560
<v Speaker 1>of his patents, right, Yeah, and from the Branshaw model on.

0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:04.239
<v Speaker 1>They really were working on How's machine and kind of

0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:08.160
<v Speaker 1>making twee tweaks to that. Uh. And then he really

0:36:08.160 --> 0:36:11.160
<v Speaker 1>got angry because he saw Isaac Singer's one of Isaac

0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Singer's sons, demonstrating their sewing machine. Yeah, and uh he said, huh,

0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:21.320
<v Speaker 1>some of these elements look awfully familiar. So of course

0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:24.440
<v Speaker 1>he ends up doing the responsible thing, you know. He

0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:28.840
<v Speaker 1>contacts Singer and says, um, actually, I own the patent

0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:32.280
<v Speaker 1>for this this machinery, this particular piece that you're using,

0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:36.360
<v Speaker 1>and so by law, um I should really receive a

0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:40.080
<v Speaker 1>royalty payment because you're you're using it in your device

0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:45.560
<v Speaker 1>and otherwise not not compensating me for it, and so um,

0:36:45.680 --> 0:36:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I'd really like that two thousand dollars the oh Me

0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:53.279
<v Speaker 1>and Singer, being the very level headed professional businessman, Uh

0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:59.360
<v Speaker 1>decided to um physically threaten How Yeah he Uh. Singer

0:36:59.440 --> 0:37:01.520
<v Speaker 1>was known for a a really bad temper. He did

0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:04.640
<v Speaker 1>some really seedy things just in business outside of this,

0:37:05.440 --> 0:37:07.120
<v Speaker 1>and when it came to this, there was one incident

0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:10.440
<v Speaker 1>where he allegedly threatened and nearly threw How down the

0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:14.080
<v Speaker 1>steps outside his office. Like there were fisticuffs. It wasn't

0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:18.600
<v Speaker 1>just yelling and through lawyers, they were physically I get

0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:22.080
<v Speaker 1>the feeling that Singer is very much like the character

0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:25.640
<v Speaker 1>from from Parts of the Caribbean who just says, you know,

0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:31.160
<v Speaker 1>they're more like Guideline. It's he's he's not not really

0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:35.240
<v Speaker 1>one to necessarily be too concerned with the actual rules

0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:38.040
<v Speaker 1>of law. You know, that actor that plays Jackmi Gibb

0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:41.640
<v Speaker 1>would make a great Isaac Singer. He would. But How

0:37:41.880 --> 0:37:44.279
<v Speaker 1>did a super smart thing. This is where we really

0:37:44.320 --> 0:37:48.439
<v Speaker 1>realized that this man was just really smart and very

0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:52.480
<v Speaker 1>widely so. He, like some of these previous sad stories,

0:37:52.520 --> 0:37:55.160
<v Speaker 1>really didn't have a lot of money to get into

0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:58.560
<v Speaker 1>a lot of legal battles, but he figures out a

0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:01.480
<v Speaker 1>way to finance some litigation. He sells half of his

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.240
<v Speaker 1>interest in his patent to a man named George Bliss,

0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:09.040
<v Speaker 1>and Bliss manufactured machines. He built them as being House patent,

0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:12.360
<v Speaker 1>even though they were pretty different from House initial design.

0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:14.839
<v Speaker 1>But the money that how made off of this partnership

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.920
<v Speaker 1>was basically put into his litigation machine and he just

0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:20.880
<v Speaker 1>started fighting people. Oh got you So, So what he

0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:22.560
<v Speaker 1>was doing was he had made this partnership. He was

0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:25.720
<v Speaker 1>making money off the partnership. Bliss is making money because

0:38:25.719 --> 0:38:28.480
<v Speaker 1>of Howe's name. How is making money because of the

0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:31.720
<v Speaker 1>partnership with Bliss. He ends up spending that money directly

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:35.879
<v Speaker 1>on lawyers to attack people who are actually infringing upon

0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:39.080
<v Speaker 1>his patents. Yeah, he went after Singer with great vigor,

0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:41.160
<v Speaker 1>But there were a lot of other people that were

0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:44.840
<v Speaker 1>also in this mix. Uh, two of them Laroux and Blodgett.

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:47.080
<v Speaker 1>That we're a pair, that we're making a firm, that

0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:51.720
<v Speaker 1>we're making machines that he thought infringed. There was actually

0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:54.480
<v Speaker 1>a judgment in that case in House Favor that was

0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:57.160
<v Speaker 1>the first one to be settled, and once it it

0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:59.280
<v Speaker 1>was like the first of the dominoes, because then everybody

0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:00.879
<v Speaker 1>else kind of panic. He went, oh, wow, he really

0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:03.120
<v Speaker 1>has a case. Right, when you've got a precedent set

0:39:03.200 --> 0:39:06.440
<v Speaker 1>like that, then the the it becomes clear that's going

0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:09.480
<v Speaker 1>to get harder and harder to win a case. Uh.

0:39:09.520 --> 0:39:12.000
<v Speaker 1>You know when a defense against such a claim. If

0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:14.120
<v Speaker 1>a claim has already been held up in court in

0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:16.840
<v Speaker 1>one instance, then the fear is that it will be

0:39:16.920 --> 0:39:19.760
<v Speaker 1>the same in future ones. And it's cheaper to settle

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:23.040
<v Speaker 1>it is to to go through the process and then

0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:26.720
<v Speaker 1>maybe have to be forced to hand over a larger

0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:30.240
<v Speaker 1>reward in a court decision. Yeah, and how is basically

0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:33.680
<v Speaker 1>happy to any settlements be like, okay, let's set up

0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:36.319
<v Speaker 1>a license. Like he was willing to deal with them.

0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:38.440
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like he wanted to prevent other people from

0:39:38.440 --> 0:39:42.640
<v Speaker 1>making their machine. This is very different from today when

0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:44.840
<v Speaker 1>we were talking about similarities. But today we got a

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:47.279
<v Speaker 1>lot of what we call them patentrols. These are the

0:39:47.320 --> 0:39:50.399
<v Speaker 1>folks who will get a patent and then either they

0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:52.760
<v Speaker 1>don't make anything on their own, or they make something

0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:55.239
<v Speaker 1>very very tiny, and then they just kind of sit

0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:57.759
<v Speaker 1>around and wait for folks to infringe upon them. They

0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:02.279
<v Speaker 1>threatened litigation in hopes of a sttlement um. But but

0:40:02.520 --> 0:40:05.000
<v Speaker 1>what a lot of people have said about the recent

0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:09.160
<v Speaker 1>patent wars is that the patent system needs to create

0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:14.360
<v Speaker 1>an incentive for patent holders to license their ideas for royalties,

0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:17.440
<v Speaker 1>which is exactly what hal was doing back in this day. Yeah,

0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:19.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean he really saw the benefit of like, hey,

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:21.120
<v Speaker 1>it would be a pain, and it took us for

0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:23.200
<v Speaker 1>me to set up my own manufacturing plant and be

0:40:23.560 --> 0:40:25.680
<v Speaker 1>churning these out. But all these people are already set up.

0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:29.239
<v Speaker 1>I can just cut deals with them. Everybody wins. Yeah,

0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:31.799
<v Speaker 1>except not so much. No, No, I got it got

0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:36.560
<v Speaker 1>ugly again. Apparently Singer was not done. Yeah, he didn't settle,

0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:40.239
<v Speaker 1>and so that case dragged on. Yeah, and it got

0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:44.080
<v Speaker 1>ugly in public. To write, You've got this great little

0:40:44.120 --> 0:40:48.320
<v Speaker 1>story about to to advertisements that ran on the same

0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 1>page of the New York Daily Tribune that tell very

0:40:51.200 --> 0:40:56.160
<v Speaker 1>different stories. Yeah, the first one reads the sewing machine.

0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:59.200
<v Speaker 1>It has been recently decided by the United States Court

0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.880
<v Speaker 1>that Alias had Junior of number three zero five Broadway

0:41:03.000 --> 0:41:06.160
<v Speaker 1>was the originator of the sewing machine now extensively used.

0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Call it his office and see forty of them in

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:12.440
<v Speaker 1>constant use upon cloth, whether, etcetera. And judge for yourselves

0:41:12.440 --> 0:41:15.839
<v Speaker 1>as to their practicality. Also see a certified copy from

0:41:15.880 --> 0:41:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the records of the United States Court of the injunction

0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:23.160
<v Speaker 1>against Singers machine so called, which is conclusive. You that

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:25.799
<v Speaker 1>want sewing machines be cautious how you purchase them of

0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 1>others than him or those licensed under him, else the

0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:32.239
<v Speaker 1>law will compel you to pay twice over. Meanwhile, we

0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:38.600
<v Speaker 1>have the other advertisement sewing machines. For the last two years,

0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Elias how Junior of Massachusetts, has been threatening suits and

0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:46.000
<v Speaker 1>injunctions against all the world who make use or sells

0:41:46.040 --> 0:41:50.520
<v Speaker 1>sewing machines. We have sold many machines, are selling them rapidly,

0:41:50.840 --> 0:41:53.920
<v Speaker 1>and have good right to sell them. The public do

0:41:54.000 --> 0:41:57.760
<v Speaker 1>not acknowledge Mr Howe's pretensions, and for the best reasons.

0:41:57.920 --> 0:42:01.399
<v Speaker 1>One machines made a core into house patent are of

0:42:01.440 --> 0:42:05.000
<v Speaker 1>no practical use. He tried several years without being able

0:42:05.040 --> 0:42:09.399
<v Speaker 1>to introduce one too. It is notorious, especially in New York,

0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:12.760
<v Speaker 1>that how was not the original inventor of the machine

0:42:12.800 --> 0:42:15.840
<v Speaker 1>combining the needle and shuttle, and that his claim to

0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:20.719
<v Speaker 1>that is not valid. Finally, we make and sell the

0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:27.759
<v Speaker 1>best sewing machines. So yeah, there's there's some vitriolic I

0:42:27.800 --> 0:42:32.239
<v Speaker 1>love how It's it's like a sewing machine telenovela. There's

0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:34.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot of soap opera going on here. And to

0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:37.760
<v Speaker 1>make it even more soap opera ish, How went after

0:42:37.840 --> 0:42:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Singer for libel. But he also went after the New

0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:43.640
<v Speaker 1>York Daily Tribune for printing his advertisement in the first place.

0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:47.440
<v Speaker 1>So we now have How going after Singer both for

0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:51.440
<v Speaker 1>patent infringement and for libel. Yeah, fantastic, just to make

0:42:51.440 --> 0:42:55.560
<v Speaker 1>their relationship that much more delightful and huggy. So at

0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:59.000
<v Speaker 1>this point Singer, Singer wakes up and just says, you know,

0:42:59.400 --> 0:43:01.640
<v Speaker 1>you know you were right. I was wrong. I'm I'm

0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:03.799
<v Speaker 1>gonna be the bigger man walk away right, not even

0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:07.160
<v Speaker 1>a little. He instead just kind of goes into a

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:11.080
<v Speaker 1>rage suitable to be played only by Daniel day Lewis. Besides,

0:43:11.160 --> 0:43:17.120
<v Speaker 1>he's going to destroy house Bill totally. He decides he

0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:21.040
<v Speaker 1>is going to seek out every scrap of evidence on earth.

0:43:21.120 --> 0:43:24.800
<v Speaker 1>He even sought out sources in Europe and China to

0:43:25.080 --> 0:43:30.160
<v Speaker 1>prove that house design was not original. Uh. And the

0:43:30.280 --> 0:43:34.000
<v Speaker 1>key here is that the wording in House patent was

0:43:34.040 --> 0:43:38.200
<v Speaker 1>really his protection because he had patented the combination of

0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:40.400
<v Speaker 1>the shuttle and the one I and the I pointed

0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:43.520
<v Speaker 1>needle and how they would work together. But he never

0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:46.839
<v Speaker 1>claimed to have invented either of those elements, and so

0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:50.120
<v Speaker 1>his patent remained accurate and correct and not infringing on

0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:52.640
<v Speaker 1>anyone else because he didn't say I invented the needle

0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:55.560
<v Speaker 1>at the shuttle. He said I invented this combination of

0:43:55.600 --> 0:43:58.520
<v Speaker 1>these two elements that work in this particular way. Correct,

0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:03.279
<v Speaker 1>and that is completely valid patent law. So again, if

0:44:03.320 --> 0:44:05.920
<v Speaker 1>you come up with a new way to use existing

0:44:05.960 --> 0:44:10.080
<v Speaker 1>technology that you you can claim as an improvement over others,

0:44:10.280 --> 0:44:13.040
<v Speaker 1>there's nothing stopping you from getting a patent on that. Yeah,

0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:15.600
<v Speaker 1>you can patent an interaction of things. They don't have

0:44:15.680 --> 0:44:20.399
<v Speaker 1>to be physical things necessarily. However, if you remember back

0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:22.879
<v Speaker 1>when we talked about Walter Hunt, who was the guy

0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:25.640
<v Speaker 1>who invented a pretty workable sewing machine but then kind

0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:28.200
<v Speaker 1>of sold it off and abandoned it, Yeah, he never

0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:32.600
<v Speaker 1>he never patented his particular idea. Singer found him, of course,

0:44:32.680 --> 0:44:34.800
<v Speaker 1>because he thought that was his best shot at bringing

0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:36.879
<v Speaker 1>HOW down and showing that HOW is not in fact,

0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:40.439
<v Speaker 1>the first person to invent a working sewing machine, so

0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:46.319
<v Speaker 1>he I guess he just wanted to retroactively magically get

0:44:45.960 --> 0:44:50.359
<v Speaker 1>a precursor patent that couldn't have existed because William Hunt

0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:53.399
<v Speaker 1>never patented his detention. That is exactly what he tried

0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:57.560
<v Speaker 1>to do. So this this reminds me. I mean, they're

0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:01.319
<v Speaker 1>their entire books written about some of the more ridiculous

0:45:01.360 --> 0:45:03.760
<v Speaker 1>things that have happened in patent law around the world,

0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:07.040
<v Speaker 1>but particularly in the United States. So another good example

0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:11.799
<v Speaker 1>of some shenanigans that went on with patents involves Tesla

0:45:11.840 --> 0:45:15.960
<v Speaker 1>and Radio. Because Tesla was awarded the patent the United

0:45:16.000 --> 0:45:20.400
<v Speaker 1>States uh the same year that Marconi actually filed for

0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:22.960
<v Speaker 1>a patent. In fact, he received the patent a month

0:45:23.040 --> 0:45:25.680
<v Speaker 1>before or two months before Marconi had filed for a

0:45:25.719 --> 0:45:29.399
<v Speaker 1>patent in the US, and then famously, several years later

0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:33.840
<v Speaker 1>the Patent Office awarded they went back on their decision,

0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:37.560
<v Speaker 1>took the patent away from Tesla and awarded it to Marconi.

0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:42.520
<v Speaker 1>So even though that happens later, you know this this

0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:46.120
<v Speaker 1>the events we're talking about here are earlier in the timeline.

0:45:47.080 --> 0:45:49.440
<v Speaker 1>It's not unusual for us to see these kind of

0:45:49.480 --> 0:45:54.080
<v Speaker 1>crazy political dealings. Yeah, and again remembered, Uh, you know,

0:45:54.520 --> 0:45:56.920
<v Speaker 1>this wasn't a time when everything was duplicated and there

0:45:57.000 --> 0:45:59.799
<v Speaker 1>was a trail of what had happened, when it would

0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:02.480
<v Speaker 1>be easy to fudge things. So it's it's reasonable that

0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:04.680
<v Speaker 1>Singer could think that he was going to finagle something

0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:07.680
<v Speaker 1>out of this. So what what happens due to this

0:46:07.680 --> 0:46:12.719
<v Speaker 1>this claim? Well, first Singer hires an engineer, William Whiting, uh,

0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:16.640
<v Speaker 1>to basically help resurrect Hunts designs. He's gonna go back

0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:19.440
<v Speaker 1>to those original blueprints and schematics and he's going to

0:46:19.520 --> 0:46:22.080
<v Speaker 1>build it to prove that this one works and it's great.

0:46:22.640 --> 0:46:30.239
<v Speaker 1>And how you got nothing? Uh? And uh. The Scientific

0:46:30.280 --> 0:46:33.359
<v Speaker 1>American at the time, as this was all bubbling up,

0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:39.719
<v Speaker 1>actually published a pretty um scathing article about Hunt asserting

0:46:39.800 --> 0:46:41.480
<v Speaker 1>because he was like, oh yeah, I did him at

0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:43.319
<v Speaker 1>the sewing machine. Now that he sees that there's money

0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:45.840
<v Speaker 1>in it and this is a litigious thing. They basically

0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:48.640
<v Speaker 1>said that his claims were rusty, He didn't he had

0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:51.120
<v Speaker 1>no hat in this game. What was he trying to do?

0:46:51.600 --> 0:46:54.680
<v Speaker 1>Legal basis? Really, but there was a trial at the

0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:58.839
<v Speaker 1>Patent Office. There were hundreds of pages of testimony. I mean,

0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:01.440
<v Speaker 1>it went on forever ing or dragged everybody in that

0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:04.000
<v Speaker 1>he could think of that had ever touched anything that

0:47:04.120 --> 0:47:08.960
<v Speaker 1>vaguely resembled the sewing machine. UM Patent Commissioner Charles Mason

0:47:09.000 --> 0:47:13.120
<v Speaker 1>the ruled in favor of Elias Howe on eighteen fifty four,

0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:16.080
<v Speaker 1>and the big part of Hunt's loss, even though he

0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:18.319
<v Speaker 1>really did have a pretty good working machine, was that

0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:20.880
<v Speaker 1>he didn't do anything to patent it or protected eighteen

0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:25.560
<v Speaker 1>years prior. So, Uh, the Patent office can't can't rule

0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:29.640
<v Speaker 1>in favor of someone who hasn't actually gone through the process. Yeah, yeah,

0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:31.480
<v Speaker 1>the commissioner is equit. Are you trying to do? You

0:47:31.560 --> 0:47:34.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't You don't have these rights. Hunt did try to

0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.360
<v Speaker 1>appeal to the Circuit Court of the District of Columbia,

0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:40.680
<v Speaker 1>but that did not go so well either. Mason's ruling

0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:48.840
<v Speaker 1>was upheld. So then how emboldened by this victory, decides

0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:51.960
<v Speaker 1>to start going after other people that he has has

0:47:51.960 --> 0:47:55.400
<v Speaker 1>perceived as infringing against his patents. Yep, everybody that was

0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:58.920
<v Speaker 1>selling a singer machine he went after. Wow, that was

0:47:58.920 --> 0:48:02.800
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people, and he asked for preliminary injunctions

0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:04.880
<v Speaker 1>against all of them to shut down sales while they

0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:09.200
<v Speaker 1>went through their court cases. So he goes through this process,

0:48:09.920 --> 0:48:14.279
<v Speaker 1>bringing it all the way to courts when necessary. Um,

0:48:14.440 --> 0:48:19.719
<v Speaker 1>and the they what the poor singer at this point,

0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:21.719
<v Speaker 1>not not really poor singer because he's kind of a jerk,

0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:24.800
<v Speaker 1>but but you've got you've got how going after the

0:48:24.840 --> 0:48:28.040
<v Speaker 1>people who are selling singer sewing machines, are incorporating them.

0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Then what they're doing instead, you know, they get attacked

0:48:30.760 --> 0:48:33.719
<v Speaker 1>by how they turned around. They attack singers saying, you

0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:35.960
<v Speaker 1>got us into this. Yeah, you had no right to

0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:38.120
<v Speaker 1>sell us the licenses that you sold us because you

0:48:38.120 --> 0:48:40.120
<v Speaker 1>didn't have a right to it. You didn't own the

0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:43.560
<v Speaker 1>technology that you were licensing to us, and and that's

0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:48.640
<v Speaker 1>why we're in trouble. So it's so liticious. By eighteen

0:48:48.680 --> 0:48:51.239
<v Speaker 1>fifty four, keep in mind this started in the in

0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:54.839
<v Speaker 1>the eighteen fifty By eighteen fifty four, Singer and how

0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:59.400
<v Speaker 1>settle their lawsuit and it's announced in Scientific American. This

0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:03.200
<v Speaker 1>is a big Yeah, this is not tiny news. This

0:49:03.280 --> 0:49:05.960
<v Speaker 1>is like this is just like when you go on

0:49:06.080 --> 0:49:08.360
<v Speaker 1>to Google News and you see like Samsung and Apple

0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:11.600
<v Speaker 1>settle lawsuits. That's equivalent. Yeah, it's kind of like it

0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:15.560
<v Speaker 1>reminds me of when those first like headlines were happening

0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:18.799
<v Speaker 1>about no Steve Jobs and Bill Gates actually like each other.

0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:21.480
<v Speaker 1>It's fine, it's like that level of wait, what we

0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:25.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't think that's how this worked, except there was very

0:49:25.440 --> 0:49:29.120
<v Speaker 1>little pushing down of stairs in any of them. Right, well,

0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:32.240
<v Speaker 1>what what's really cool about this? Okay, so this didn't

0:49:32.400 --> 0:49:36.279
<v Speaker 1>end all litigation. There was still some continuing on. But

0:49:36.440 --> 0:49:38.920
<v Speaker 1>by eighteen fifties six, we get the president of Grover

0:49:39.000 --> 0:49:41.600
<v Speaker 1>and Baker, which was one of the companies involved in

0:49:41.600 --> 0:49:45.480
<v Speaker 1>the suits, that were, uh, that we're evolving, Elias How,

0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:47.680
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we should back up because we skipped that.

0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:52.040
<v Speaker 1>People tried to then sue How for improving Uh yeah,

0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:56.080
<v Speaker 1>so How basically at this point was the you know,

0:49:56.160 --> 0:49:59.160
<v Speaker 1>the czar of the sewing machine in industry. He owned

0:49:59.200 --> 0:50:01.960
<v Speaker 1>the patent to the biggest chunk of it and was

0:50:02.040 --> 0:50:04.160
<v Speaker 1>licensing those out, and he thought, well, you know, I

0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:07.239
<v Speaker 1>could really tweak that original design as well. But every

0:50:07.239 --> 0:50:09.560
<v Speaker 1>tweak he made other people claim they had already made.

0:50:09.600 --> 0:50:12.600
<v Speaker 1>So then he was getting sued by people for patent

0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:16.439
<v Speaker 1>infringement for improving on his original design. Okay, so now's

0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:21.200
<v Speaker 1>the litigation festival Basically, now you've got people saying, all right, well,

0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:25.360
<v Speaker 1>these improvements you're making, we've already made and we've already patented.

0:50:25.480 --> 0:50:28.680
<v Speaker 1>So it's become a huge mess. By eighteen fifty six,

0:50:28.719 --> 0:50:30.400
<v Speaker 1>you get the president of Grover and Baker, which was

0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:33.400
<v Speaker 1>one of the companies that was involved in these cases

0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:37.680
<v Speaker 1>against how about these improvements to the original designs and

0:50:38.160 --> 0:50:43.279
<v Speaker 1>comes up with a concept called the combination, which, by

0:50:43.320 --> 0:50:46.280
<v Speaker 1>the way, these days we would call this a patent pool. Yeah,

0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:48.760
<v Speaker 1>and a patent pools essentially when you get a whole

0:50:48.800 --> 0:50:52.000
<v Speaker 1>bunch of different stakeholders who all own different patents that

0:50:52.080 --> 0:50:56.040
<v Speaker 1>are involved in the same general technology to essentially come

0:50:56.040 --> 0:50:59.000
<v Speaker 1>to an agreement saying, all right, we're gonna pull all

0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:01.359
<v Speaker 1>these patents together, and as long as we are all

0:51:01.400 --> 0:51:03.840
<v Speaker 1>officially part of this group and we all agree to

0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:06.600
<v Speaker 1>operate by these rules, we're not going to sue the

0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.880
<v Speaker 1>pants off each other whenever we make an improvement to

0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:13.680
<v Speaker 1>that technology or incorporate that technology into our products. Yes,

0:51:14.040 --> 0:51:17.960
<v Speaker 1>make suring that everyone's getting the royalties that they deserve. Exactly. So.

0:51:18.520 --> 0:51:21.280
<v Speaker 1>The president of Grover and Baker was Orlando B. Potter,

0:51:21.440 --> 0:51:23.799
<v Speaker 1>and he, you know, I feel like He's a person

0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:27.120
<v Speaker 1>that's not very well known historically, but he really deserves

0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:29.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot of kudos because he was really the first

0:51:29.239 --> 0:51:33.080
<v Speaker 1>person to go, hey, you guys, we're only hurting ourselves.

0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:36.560
<v Speaker 1>We're kind of being idiots. And he really established this

0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:39.760
<v Speaker 1>concept of what is now a patent pool. Uh. So

0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:42.960
<v Speaker 1>he was like, let's stop, you know, holding up everybody's production.

0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Let's stop throwing our money at lawyers. We don't need that.

0:51:46.080 --> 0:51:50.160
<v Speaker 1>We can work this out. Uh. And so he got

0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:52.480
<v Speaker 1>them all to join their forces. They pulled their patents,

0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:56.480
<v Speaker 1>they made one unified combination patent for sewing machines. How

0:51:56.600 --> 0:51:59.399
<v Speaker 1>initially was not on board with this. Well, now, when

0:51:59.440 --> 0:52:02.319
<v Speaker 1>you own a huge chunk of the landscape, than you

0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:04.239
<v Speaker 1>feel like you have the most to lose in that

0:52:04.320 --> 0:52:07.920
<v Speaker 1>kind of agreement. He definitely felt that way, but eventually

0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:11.520
<v Speaker 1>he did agree to it. He had made some pretty

0:52:11.560 --> 0:52:15.480
<v Speaker 1>heavy stipulations and the other parties agreed. Basically, he was

0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:17.960
<v Speaker 1>going to get a five dollar royalty on every sewing

0:52:17.960 --> 0:52:20.680
<v Speaker 1>machine that was sold in the US, and for every

0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:23.160
<v Speaker 1>sewing machine that was exported he would get a dollar. Now,

0:52:23.160 --> 0:52:25.359
<v Speaker 1>I remember this is in eighteen fifty six, so these

0:52:25.360 --> 0:52:28.560
<v Speaker 1>are not paltry sums. This is this is a significant money.

0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:32.160
<v Speaker 1>So in the next eleven years between eighteen fifty six

0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:35.560
<v Speaker 1>in eighteen sixty seven, when How's Patton expired, he made

0:52:35.560 --> 0:52:38.000
<v Speaker 1>more than two million dollars And that's two million dollars

0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:42.680
<v Speaker 1>in eighteen hundreds money. Yeah, that's way more. But he

0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:50.320
<v Speaker 1>would be a kajillionaire, crazy crazy, that's accurate estimation there um.

0:52:50.360 --> 0:52:55.480
<v Speaker 1>And he requested a an extension to that patent but

0:52:55.600 --> 0:52:59.120
<v Speaker 1>was denied. Patents do, like I said earlier, expire, and

0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:02.760
<v Speaker 1>when they expire, you lose that exclusivity. You cannot demand

0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:07.239
<v Speaker 1>licenses for it. That technology, that implementation of that technology

0:53:07.320 --> 0:53:10.960
<v Speaker 1>then belongs to the public, so anyone can create any

0:53:11.000 --> 0:53:14.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of device using that sort of approach um that

0:53:14.640 --> 0:53:16.960
<v Speaker 1>was originally covered by that patent that's now expired. So

0:53:17.440 --> 0:53:20.319
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't get the extension he wanted, and he dies

0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:22.160
<v Speaker 1>of a broken heart. He doesn't really die of a

0:53:22.160 --> 0:53:24.279
<v Speaker 1>broken heart. His heart was broken earlier in his life

0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:26.239
<v Speaker 1>when his wife died, but it did not kill him

0:53:26.280 --> 0:53:30.000
<v Speaker 1>to the best of our knowledge. However, some say that

0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:34.600
<v Speaker 1>it did kind of spur his because he just needed

0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:38.720
<v Speaker 1>to focus on something else. Um. But singer of course

0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:43.760
<v Speaker 1>continued to work his magic in the sewing machine industry,

0:53:43.840 --> 0:53:47.120
<v Speaker 1>and now as a consequence, you know, he's really the

0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:49.600
<v Speaker 1>name we remember more than a lie us how Yeah, yeah,

0:53:49.680 --> 0:53:52.120
<v Speaker 1>you see that name all over the He was exceptional

0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:56.280
<v Speaker 1>at marketing, very much again, kind of like Edison, who

0:53:56.600 --> 0:53:59.839
<v Speaker 1>was brilliant in many ways, and one of the big

0:54:00.280 --> 0:54:03.600
<v Speaker 1>was that he was a very smart businessman and marketer.

0:54:04.160 --> 0:54:07.040
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, this is again you can see the parallels

0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:11.240
<v Speaker 1>with modern patent wars. Everything from the cooperation of various

0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:15.239
<v Speaker 1>companies to make sure that business can continue, the arguments

0:54:15.280 --> 0:54:19.920
<v Speaker 1>that patent litigation harms innovation, that that patent that's sitting

0:54:19.920 --> 0:54:23.920
<v Speaker 1>on patent's harms innovation. These are not new ideas. No,

0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:27.160
<v Speaker 1>you gotta look at you know, early to mid nineteenth

0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:29.879
<v Speaker 1>century and you can see it all there as well.

0:54:30.000 --> 0:54:33.879
<v Speaker 1>So very interesting that there's so much in common with

0:54:33.920 --> 0:54:36.600
<v Speaker 1>what we see today. Guys, thank you for joining me

0:54:36.680 --> 0:54:39.360
<v Speaker 1>on this classic episode of tax stuff. I hope you

0:54:39.400 --> 0:54:41.719
<v Speaker 1>found it as fascinating as I did. It always is

0:54:41.760 --> 0:54:45.520
<v Speaker 1>interesting to me to see how these older technologies actually

0:54:46.160 --> 0:54:50.839
<v Speaker 1>ended up having some very interesting modern problems associated with them,

0:54:50.880 --> 0:54:54.080
<v Speaker 1>like this whole patent war situation. If you guys would

0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:56.880
<v Speaker 1>like me to discuss any particular topic. Maybe it's a

0:54:57.000 --> 0:55:00.399
<v Speaker 1>technology or a company or a person that in tech

0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:02.160
<v Speaker 1>that you think is really important. Maybe you want me

0:55:02.200 --> 0:55:05.600
<v Speaker 1>to have a specific guest on as either an interview

0:55:05.680 --> 0:55:08.000
<v Speaker 1>or a co host. Let me know. Send me an

0:55:08.000 --> 0:55:11.560
<v Speaker 1>email the addresses tech stuff at how stuff works dot com,

0:55:11.640 --> 0:55:14.040
<v Speaker 1>or draw me a line on Twitter or Facebook the

0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:17.200
<v Speaker 1>handle of both of those tech stuff hs W. Remember

0:55:17.239 --> 0:55:20.239
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0:55:20.360 --> 0:55:23.400
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0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Just go to twitch dot tv slash tech stuff and

0:55:26.719 --> 0:55:35.120
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0:55:35.200 --> 0:55:37.960
<v Speaker 1>this and thousands of other topics, visit how staff works

0:55:37.960 --> 0:55:48.120
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