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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news.

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Speaker 2: Tonight, a high school hazing goes horribly wrong. The district

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Speaker 2: attorney makes a public statement to the perpetrators.

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Speaker 1: Turn yourself in.

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Speaker 2: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, and I want

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Speaker 2: to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: Five underclassmen on the West Hill High School lacrosse team

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Speaker 3: are on a rare social outing with a couple of

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Speaker 3: older teammates. The occasion is unlike any other. If all

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Speaker 3: goes well, the younger teams might have a shot at

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Speaker 3: proving their worth as new players on the team. It's

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Speaker 3: a golden ticket to the highly coveted prize of social acceptance.

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Speaker 3: In the intricate hierarchy of high school politics.

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Speaker 2: Politics, social status, What does nobody get even now that

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Speaker 2: these hazing incidents end in death. Before I go out

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Speaker 2: to an all star panel, I want you to meet

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Speaker 2: someone very near and dear to my heart, and I

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Speaker 2: finally get to speak to her in person. Sherry Falts

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Speaker 2: is with us, the mother of Stone Faults, founder of

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Speaker 2: I Am Stone Falts Foundation, the mission to stop deadly hazing.

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Speaker 2: She lost her boy, her beautiful boy, Stone. Sherry, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us, Thank you for having me,

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Speaker 2: Miss folks, when you hear of another, and another and

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Speaker 2: yet another deadly hazing has happened, what goes through your mind?

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Speaker 4: It's just it's unbearable to say the least. You know,

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Speaker 4: we continue to hear stories. I continue to read it.

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Speaker 4: You know through Google alerts that it continues to happen.

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Speaker 4: It's happening more often in high schools. It's just it's

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Speaker 4: it's a nightmare. I remember four years ago now hazing

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Speaker 4: wasn't even spoken about. Now it's becoming more prominent. It's

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Speaker 4: in the news more often. You hear about it every day.

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Speaker 2: Joining me is stone Faults his mom. There have been

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Speaker 2: even more hazing arrests and hazing incidents since.

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Speaker 1: The case we're covering right now tonight.

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Speaker 2: But I want to remind everyone who is stone Folds.

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Speaker 1: Listen, what county name?

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Speaker 5: Well one, what does your emergency?

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Speaker 6: Hi?

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Speaker 7: The one that we know is a non response to

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Speaker 7: that you drink alcohol, like a lot of alcohol.

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Speaker 8: So where is he at?

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Speaker 9: We're how old is your friend?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 9: He's twenty twenty, okay, And what's he doing right now?

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Speaker 9: He's laying down on his side, and his ears are

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Speaker 9: his face is really purple, and he his pupils aren't responsive. Okay,

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Speaker 9: is he breathing? Yeah, he's breathing, but it really shallow

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Speaker 9: and he's been drinking. He said, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: Is he taking anything else we need to know about?

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Speaker 10: No?

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Speaker 9: What's your name?

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Speaker 8: Okay?

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Speaker 5: Hay, paga? Okay.

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Speaker 1: Are you positive he's breathing?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I'm You see his.

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Speaker 1: Chest rising up and down?

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Speaker 11: No?

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Speaker 1: No, right, no, okay, he's blue.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, Okay, then there's a good chance he's not breathing.

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Speaker 8: I want you to get down.

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Speaker 9: Is he on the floor?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah he is. Okay, do you see his chest

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Speaker 1: rising at all?

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Speaker 2: He said?

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you.

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Speaker 9: Know how to do CPR?

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Speaker 2: Do you want me to walk you through it?

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Speaker 9: Is there somebody else there that can do PPR?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 1: No, I walk joining me?

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Speaker 2: Is Stone's mother, Sherry, miss Folts. What happened to Stone?

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Speaker 4: Stone was in his sophomore year at blind Green State

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Speaker 4: University in Ohio and he was had decided last minute

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Speaker 4: to join a fraternity. Through the process of joining the fraternity,

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Speaker 4: they were required to do several different I guess you

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Speaker 4: would call ritual's traditions and as we know now today,

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Speaker 4: as we learn have learned over time, that's that's called grooming,

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Speaker 4: So they basically groom you into thinking these things are

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Speaker 4: okay and what you have to do in order to

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Speaker 4: join a fraternity. It ended up early March where the

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Speaker 4: big little event was taken place. It is an event

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Speaker 4: that reveals the big brother for the members joining the fraternity. Stone.

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Speaker 4: He ended up going there that night and was taken

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Speaker 4: down into a basement at the fraternity house, and there

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Speaker 4: was seven other pledges that night, pledging to be in

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Speaker 4: that fraternity, and they tied a blindfold over their eyes,

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Speaker 4: walked them down the stairs to the basement and there

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Speaker 4: was really a loud heavy metal music playing, made them

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Speaker 4: very disoriented. Took them down, there was screaming yelling at him,

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Speaker 4: you know, and then they actually had them take off

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Speaker 4: their blindfold, and in front of them was standing their

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Speaker 4: big brother who had a bottle of liquor in their hand,

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Speaker 4: which they call the family bottle. It's basically passed down

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Speaker 4: as a tradition from each big brother's family bottle. And

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Speaker 4: he was handed that bottle and he was coerced or

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Speaker 4: forced into drinking that entire bottle, and throughout the night,

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Speaker 4: which was only twenty minutes, he had finished that bottle

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Speaker 4: because his big brother was cheering him on and the

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Speaker 4: other big brothers were throwing out the other pledges drinks,

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Speaker 4: you know, trying to help them out, giving them a chaser,

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Speaker 4: and he ended up basically being incoherent. He had asked

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Speaker 4: to go home. They drug him up the stairs out.

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Speaker 4: Three of the members drove him back to his apartment.

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Speaker 4: They drug him up the stairs into his apartment, laid

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Speaker 4: him on the couch, backpacked him, and for one last enjoyment,

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Speaker 4: took a video of them and you know, said that

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Speaker 4: he was snoring, making fun of him, when actually he

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Speaker 4: was diasperating and dying right in front.

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Speaker 9: Of their eyes.

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Speaker 4: They then left him there and his roommate showed up.

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Speaker 4: We don't know when, but he didn't wasn't aware of

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Speaker 4: how much or if Stone had been drinking, but obviously

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Speaker 4: the sight of him noticed, you know, uh, he was.

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Speaker 4: He was in trouble. He ended up calling Stone's girlfriend,

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Speaker 4: who you heard on the nine one one call, Maddie.

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Speaker 4: Maddie ended up calling nine one one. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 4: there was talk about fear of retaliation and what the

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Speaker 4: furniturey Do would do if you know, Stone did survive

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Speaker 4: what they would do to him or uh the other

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Speaker 4: people within the apartment. And from there you're in the

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Speaker 4: nine one one call.

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Speaker 2: Miss Falts. I noticed your delivery. When you say what

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Speaker 2: happened to your boy? I meant asked so many times

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Speaker 2: what happened to my fiance that I can now recite

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Speaker 2: it because I don't want to feel it. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to think about what I'm saying. But I know

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Speaker 2: the story enough that I can recite it. Sometimes when

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Speaker 2: people ask me, I go, well, that was a long

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Speaker 2: time ago, so I don't have to recite it again.

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Speaker 2: How do you steal yourself to tell that story?

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Speaker 4: I think you know to tell that story. I hear

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Speaker 4: the nine to one one call. You know often we

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Speaker 4: actually play it in our presentations that we delivered to

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Speaker 4: high schools and universities. Just because it is an emotional

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Speaker 4: something to hear. I think people need to hear it.

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Speaker 4: I think these young adults need to hear it because

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Speaker 4: this is real. To tell his story over and over,

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Speaker 4: it is hard. It rips the band aid right off.

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Speaker 4: But I know that by telling his story, we can

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Speaker 4: hopefully to look for change or saving lies. And that's

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Speaker 4: the promise that I made to Stone when I walked

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Speaker 4: in the icy room and saw all the tubes and

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Speaker 4: everything on him and you know, not breathing on his own.

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Speaker 4: We had a ventilator. I knew what was going on,

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Speaker 4: and I told him the one thing we could do

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Speaker 4: is to fight to make sure this does not happen

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Speaker 4: to any other family and to another student. And I guess,

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Speaker 4: and that's what I'm trying to do, is just retell

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Speaker 4: his story so that people understand this is real and

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Speaker 4: this is happening, and it has to be taken seriously,

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Speaker 4: and things need to be done that are going to

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Speaker 4: take care of hazing once and for all.

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Speaker 2: Listen to Rix eight.

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Speaker 5: Elliott join Folks joined this fraternity to network for a

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Speaker 5: resume building. He saw red flags that this wasn't good.

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Speaker 5: In that night, he was brought in. He was told

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Speaker 5: to take his tie off, They blindfolded him, took him

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Speaker 5: down to a basement along with the other player, and

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Speaker 5: forced them to drink a handle of alcohol before they

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Speaker 5: were allowed to leave. Then the active members took stone

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Speaker 5: Folts completely incapacitated stone Folts to his apartment and left

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Speaker 5: him there, left him on the couch, face down on

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Speaker 5: the couch by himself, and by the way, clear up

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Speaker 5: one quick thing. While that young woman was on the

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Speaker 5: nine to one one call, his roommate had come home.

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Speaker 5: He was a boy scout, he was performing CPR at

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Speaker 5: the time. But that's what they did. These actives forced

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Speaker 5: him to drink one hundred and fifty pound kid who

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Speaker 5: really didn't even have a long drinking history, and they

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Speaker 5: left him at the apartment all by himself, to slowly

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Speaker 5: die at the hospital hours later. His blood alcohol content

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Speaker 5: was zero point three nine.

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Speaker 2: Four that's a fifth of bourbon in twenty minutes on

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Speaker 2: a boy that had hardly ever even tasted alcohol. On

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Speaker 2: the heels of stone Faltse's death, now.

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Speaker 12: This he was taken to a remote area of the

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Speaker 12: county and at some point, by pre arrangement, people came

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Speaker 12: out of the woods, all dressed in black. They were

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Speaker 12: armed with what appeared to be at least one handgun

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Speaker 12: and at least one knife.

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Speaker 11: In Syracuse, New York, five underclassmen on the West Hill

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Speaker 11: High School lacrosse team are excited when older teammates invite

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Speaker 11: them to go to watch your rival schools lacrosse match

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Speaker 11: and dinner at McDonald's. Upperclassmen are not known for including

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Speaker 11: younger teammates and social events, and the boys see this

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Speaker 11: as an opportunity to be accepted by the older players

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Speaker 11: on the team.

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Speaker 12: The individual had a pillowcase placed over his head, he

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Speaker 12: was tied up and placed in the trunk of a car.

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Speaker 2: From our friends at Syracuse dot com, Miss Folds, does

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Speaker 2: it never end?

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Speaker 4: Unfortunately, it's not. It's I'm hearing more and more stories.

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Speaker 4: It's like I said earlier, it's heartbreaking. It's not ending.

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Speaker 4: It's it's so much more prominent in high schools and

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Speaker 4: we only hear about it when it gets reported. So,

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Speaker 4: you know, you just think about all the incidents that

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Speaker 4: are happening that are not even getting reported. It's it's

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Speaker 4: the number is outstanding and something needs to be done

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Speaker 4: about it. And I kudos to mister Fitzpatrick for doing

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Speaker 4: what he's doing. I think that's the number one thing

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Speaker 4: is we have to get these das and the judges

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Speaker 4: to understand and place a huge penalty against these these

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Speaker 4: students who are doing these acts. That need to understand that,

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Speaker 4: you know, lives are being taken from hazing, and it's

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Speaker 4: I just thank you for what he is doing. I

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Speaker 4: think it's very important. I think it starts there and

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Speaker 4: they need to be taken seriously. And that's the only

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Speaker 4: way we're gonna get hazing to end is if it's

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Speaker 4: taken seriously in our DA's and judges, as I said,

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Speaker 4: need to do it.

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Speaker 3: The night takes a turn for the young boys when

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Speaker 3: on the way home, the driver of the car suddenly

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Speaker 3: loses his way, pulling over to the side in a

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Speaker 3: secluded area. In what seems like a blink of an eye,

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Speaker 3: the boys are surrounded by masked assailants armed with knives

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Speaker 3: and possibly even a gun.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't lost. The driver pulled over intentionally for hazing. Hazing.

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Speaker 1: This is what happens. Listen.

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Speaker 12: He was taken to a remote area of the county

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Speaker 12: and at some point, by pre arrangement, people came out

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Speaker 12: of the woods, all dressed in black. They were armed

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Speaker 12: with what appeared to be at least one handgun and

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Speaker 12: at least one knife. The individual had a pillowcase placed

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Speaker 12: over his head. He was tied up and placed in

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Speaker 12: the trunk of a car.

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Speaker 2: That from our friends at Syracuse dot com and then

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Speaker 2: the District Attorney, William Fitzpatrick issues a stark warning.

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Speaker 12: You have forty eight hours to turn yourself into the Sheriff's.

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Speaker 1: Department, joining me an all star panel.

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Speaker 2: In addition to MISSUS Folks joining us, Mary Keeler is

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Speaker 2: joining US investigative reporter see in Why Central Media Group.

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Speaker 1: Mary, thank you for being with us. What happened.

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Speaker 7: What we know is that it was a serious criminal

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Speaker 7: hazing act that District Attorney Bill Fitzpatrick called hazing on

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Speaker 7: steroids when he started that press conference.

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Speaker 1: You just pulled a little bit of sound from there.

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Speaker 7: But we know that eleven upper classmen, we know at

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Speaker 7: least four of them are eighteen.

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Speaker 1: From a source.

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Speaker 7: Close to the investigation, they put together a ruse that

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Speaker 7: authorities say was maybe even practice.

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Speaker 1: Or a dry run.

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Speaker 7: Was done the Wednesday night before the April twenty fourth,

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Speaker 7: That was not last Thursday, but the Thursday before that.

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Speaker 7: They were going to have younger students go to a

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Speaker 7: cross game with the upperclassmen, then go to McDonald's for dinner.

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Speaker 7: That was quickly found out to be a ruse. They

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Speaker 7: were tied at the hands, they had a pillowcase placed

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Speaker 7: over their head. They were placed in a trunk of

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Speaker 7: a car driven to a remote part of Onondaga County

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Speaker 7: and it's there. We're told that many other members of

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Speaker 7: the team are there with black clothing. They're coming out

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Speaker 7: of a wooded area in what appears to be in

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Speaker 7: a gun and a knife, and they're all wearing black,

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Speaker 7: black clothing. And we also know that this whole ordeal

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Speaker 7: was videotape, that there was a there are as a

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Speaker 7: video at least that authorities have seen that has been circulating.

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Speaker 7: But what we do know is that this could have

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Speaker 7: gone a lot worse. We just confirmed with the district

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Speaker 7: attorney before I joined this program that he believes it

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Speaker 7: based on interviews with investigators for people who have come in,

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Speaker 7: that it was an airsoft gun that was used. But

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Speaker 7: his point being that if Amber of Law Enforcement that

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Speaker 7: was on duty pulled over or drove by that scene

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Speaker 7: in that remote part of the county with some sort

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Speaker 7: of weapon drawn, whether it be real or fake, it

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Speaker 7: could have been a completely different scenario.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now, in addition to Mary Keeler and Sheer

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Speaker 2: Fols is a renowned attorney in this field representing victims families.

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Speaker 2: David Biyonki joining US trial lawyer Stuart Tillman, Fox, Beyonki,

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Speaker 2: and Kaine.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Did you just hear the description and this was rehearsed.

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Speaker 2: There's no way really to argue this was hazing that

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Speaker 2: got out of hand.

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Speaker 1: This was rehearsed.

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Speaker 13: Nancy, You're right, it was rehearsed, and it's unimaginable that

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Speaker 13: this still goes on.

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Speaker 6: But let me just give you my perspective on this.

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Speaker 13: I've been involved in these hazing cases for maybe twenty

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Speaker 13: five years or so, and I've seen all kinds of

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Speaker 13: bad things. At this point in time, in the year

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Speaker 13: twenty twenty five, almost every state in the country has

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Speaker 13: an anti hazing law, Every major university has an anti

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Speaker 13: hazing policy, every major fraternity and sorority has an anti

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Speaker 13: hazing policy. Yet it continues. So what we're doing to

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Speaker 13: try to stop it is not working. But you remember

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Speaker 13: six years ago at Cornell, Antonio Sianalis died after a

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Speaker 13: night of hazing and the next day they found his

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Speaker 13: body at the bottom of a gorge.

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Speaker 10: And despite the fact that it was hazing on steroids

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Speaker 10: in that case, also also in the state of New York,

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Speaker 10: no criminal charges were ever filed against anybody. So what

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Speaker 10: kind of a message does that sound? So we've got

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Speaker 10: together a very.

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Speaker 2: Very weak message, and I'm going to throw this to

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Speaker 2: our shrink. Joining us clinical forensic psychologist, visiting scholar, Boston

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Speaker 2: College and author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence

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Speaker 2: of Modern Violent Crime. Joining us, doctor Gary Bracato, Doctor Bricado,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. What I don't understand

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Speaker 2: is why we keep sugarcoating this to call it hazing incident.

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Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Bricatto, I'm going to do something with.

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Speaker 2: You that no lawyer is allowed to do with a

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Speaker 2: jury and a criminal prosecution, and that is asked you

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Speaker 2: to put yourself in the shoes of the victim. You

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Speaker 2: just heard Sherry Foltz describe what was done to her son,

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Speaker 2: left there and mocked videoed as he was dying. Now,

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Speaker 2: in the case in Chief, you have boys assailed with

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Speaker 2: hoods put over their heads, hoods, black hoods put over

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Speaker 2: their heads, put in car trunks.

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Speaker 1: What if that happened to you?

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Speaker 2: What if the worst thing that happened to the defendant

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Speaker 2: that did that to you was that he couldn't go

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Speaker 2: to work for six months? Really, because that's what the

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Speaker 2: penalty is, Doctor Precanto.

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Speaker 14: No, it's it's awful what I find so especially horrifying

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Speaker 14: about hazing cases is that they are a perversion of

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Speaker 14: the idea of seeking affiliation, closeness, of family like connection

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Speaker 14: with a group of people. And of course the idea

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Speaker 14: is to break down the will the morality of an individual,

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Speaker 14: so they basically will do whatever it is that you

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Speaker 14: want them to do. You groom them to do that.

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Speaker 14: It's very similar to what you see in cults or

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Speaker 14: abusive relationships, things like that. And of course in those

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Speaker 14: groups there are going to be a mixture of people

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Speaker 14: who are seeking that kind of bond and who are afraid.

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Speaker 14: The greater the fear, the more likely you are to

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Speaker 14: create a cohesive bond like that. That's an ancient thing

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Speaker 14: that happens to human beings.

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Speaker 2: You know what all of this is, which is running

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Speaker 2: by like a stream. The penalty, the penalty for what

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Speaker 2: they did. You just heard one moment ago David Biyonki,

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Speaker 2: the lawyer, state that one hazing victim was found at

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Speaker 2: the bottom of a gorge dead and there were no charges.

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Speaker 2: I mean, okay, listen to this, doctor.

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Speaker 11: Players and parents of the varsity West Hill High School

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Speaker 11: lacrosse team are informed by the school district. Their season

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Speaker 11: is officially over. The reason given was not just the

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Speaker 11: hazing incident, but the increased media attention and concerns that

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Speaker 11: other teams would not want to play against West Hill.

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Speaker 1: The season is over.

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Speaker 2: That's the punishment that the lacrosse season is over.

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Speaker 6: No and no.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace hazing.

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Speaker 2: In other words, murder, kidnapping, aggravator salt is not going

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Speaker 2: to end.

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Speaker 1: If the worst that happens is the lacrosse season is over,

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Speaker 1: boo oo.

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Speaker 4: And you read where parents are upset about this, and

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Speaker 4: it's like, but you don't understand what that victim is

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Speaker 4: going to face potentially for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 4: You know, that is going to haunt him. He is

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Speaker 4: going to have mental mental health issues, probably for the

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Speaker 4: rest of his life. I don't think parents and the

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Speaker 4: staff of these high schools understand the severity that is causing.

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Speaker 4: You know, they just say that these are pranks, or

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Speaker 4: you know, it's not to be meant to be harmful,

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Speaker 4: or it's just you know, unsportsmanlike conduct. These things need

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Speaker 4: to be taken seriously, and there needs to be churches

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Speaker 4: pressed and it's the only way. If there's several of

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Speaker 4: them that are eighteen, they need to be tried as adults.

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Speaker 4: It needs to be taken further, otherwise it's just going

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Speaker 4: to continue to happen.

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Speaker 15: Outnumbered eleven to one, the boy's hands are tied in

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Speaker 15: a pillowcase is placed over his head before he has

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Speaker 15: thrown into the trunk of a car at knife point.

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Speaker 15: The kidnappers taught the boy as they drive to another

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Speaker 15: secluded wooded area of the counting and dump him on

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Speaker 15: the ground a nightmare. As the boy has left alone

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Speaker 15: in feared for his life.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan is joining me, renowned professor forensic Jacksonville

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Speaker 2: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon,

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Speaker 2: and now star of hit podcast Body Bags with Joe

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, but for my purposes. He is a death

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Speaker 2: investigator who has investigated literally thousands of death scenes. Just

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Speaker 2: got Morgan by putting a hood over a young boy

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Speaker 2: or anybody's face, a hood securing it around their.

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Speaker 1: Over their nose, over their mouth.

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Speaker 2: I mean, think of tot Mom's case Kelly Anthony, where

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Speaker 2: Kelly's nose and mouth were covered in duct tape. Okay,

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Speaker 2: think of the most recent case that you and I covered,

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Speaker 2: Little Miranda Corsetti, where she had something put over her head.

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Speaker 2: The dangers of putting a hood as in this case

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Speaker 2: over anyone's had much less and unsuspected high school boy

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Speaker 2: and throwing them in the trunk. What happens, of course tragedy,

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Speaker 2: just Scott, what happens when someone is hooded and thrown.

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Speaker 1: In a trunk?

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Speaker 8: Well, the first thing that happens, Nancy, is the fact

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Speaker 8: that you're putting this person in the position of suffering

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Speaker 8: from severe sensory deprivation. And when that means that they

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Speaker 8: have they're completely disoriented. And it's.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, Jessicott, mar you're the death investigator focused

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Speaker 2: on on deat h death when you have a hood

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Speaker 2: or a covering.

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Speaker 1: Over your nose and mouth.

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Speaker 2: I just gave you two examples, Kelly Anthony and we're

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Speaker 2: Rando Corsetti. Two examples. Their faces were covered, they died.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about being disoriented at the end? People

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Speaker 2: died just gone with coverings.

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Speaker 1: Over their face.

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Speaker 8: So it's the important The important part of this names

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Speaker 8: that I was trying to get at is the fact

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Speaker 8: that they begin to shallow breathe, and if if an

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Speaker 8: individual is using a bag or a hood. They're also

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Speaker 8: they're shallow breathing, and then it's not going to be

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Speaker 8: porous perhaps, and so their oxygen, their oxygen is greatly reduced.

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Speaker 8: You talk about binding of hands, that they're sequestered in

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Speaker 8: a dark space and then they're set out and they

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Speaker 8: have no way of being able to take care of themselves,

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Speaker 8: and so that fear will cause an adrenaline spike in them, Nancy.

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Speaker 8: And many times an individual at shallow breathe this can

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Speaker 8: actually lead to cardiospart or respiratory arrest. That was the

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Speaker 8: point I was trying to make. And that have no

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Speaker 8: idea as to what might happen to them. You can

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Speaker 8: imagine some of the thoughts that are running through their mind.

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Speaker 8: Am I going to be beaten to death? Am I

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Speaker 8: going to be abandoned? Is it cold? Am I going

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Speaker 8: to be subjected to this? All these questions are rolling

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Speaker 8: through their mind, and all the while they're anxious, and

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Speaker 8: so the shallow breeze and they can't breede. That's one

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Speaker 8: of the things that happens that brings about death in

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Speaker 8: cases like this. Nancy.

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Speaker 2: You know what, Joe Scott, You're right. So the shallow

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Speaker 2: breathing when you're, as you say, disori and afraid. How

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Speaker 2: does that lead to asphyxiation?

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Speaker 8: Well, the airway is blocked and if you're shallow breathing,

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Speaker 8: or it's compromised. We won't say blocked, but it is

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Speaker 8: greatly compromised, and so the individual can actually go into

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Speaker 8: a cardiac arrest as a result of that. There's no

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Speaker 8: here's the problem. You have no way of understanding what

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Speaker 8: an individual's anatomy and physiology is. We're all predisposed to

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Speaker 8: certain types of responses in our body. So this young man.

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Speaker 6: He's a kid.

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Speaker 8: You have no idea the effects that are happening on

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Speaker 8: his body specific that are specific to him. It's kind

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Speaker 8: of like these alcohol poisoning cases where you have individuals

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Speaker 8: that are forced to drink copious amounts of alcohol. Okay,

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Speaker 8: you know, we commonly think that point four is lethal range,

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Speaker 8: and it generally is, but if somebody has a tolerance

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Speaker 8: for this sort of thing, they can go above that.

441
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 8: And I've actually seen that happen in my career. But

442
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 8: it impacts the individual very specific to them. So you

443
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 8: don't know what you're doing to this child, and he

444
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 8: is a child when you take him out here and

445
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 8: abandon him.

446
00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: A hazing prank goes horribly wrong. To Barry Hudginson, joining

447
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: us twenty six years in LA law enforcement, now owner,

448
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 2: chief investigator, Barry and associates, Barry, thank you for being

449
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: with us. What I don't understand is when you throw

450
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: a hood, a black hood, over a boy's head, force him,

451
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: tie his hands, and force him into a trunk, why

452
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 2: wouldn't there be charges of kidnapping? And in the other

453
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: case we've discussed, why not murder charges?

454
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: Why?

455
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 6: Well?

456
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 16: The answer, first of all, let me say to you

457
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 16: everybody that's listening, there's a very distinct difference between a

458
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 16: prank and a felon, and what these guys did is

459
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 16: an absolute felony.

460
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 14: I mean, even if it would have been.

461
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 16: A toy gun, as long as that person believes and

462
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 16: you know this is to prosecute, as long as that

463
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 16: person believes that it's a real gun, and it can

464
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 16: be a toy gun, the laws the same. It's an

465
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 16: imminent threat. They believe it's an eminent threat, so they're

466
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 16: supposed to act according lander's the letter of law. Why

467
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 16: this hasn't been pursued nationwide as an actual crime is

468
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 16: beyond me. Because it's well beyond that, and the schools

469
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 16: aren't doing anything about it. They don't want their names

470
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 16: to be sullied.

471
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: Well, it's not just the schools, Barry, it's not just

472
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: the schools. It's law enforcement. It's prosecutors all across the

473
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: country going light on hazing incidents. So they keep happening.

474
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 2: To David Beyonke joining me, high profile trial lawyer who

475
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 2: is America's leading hazing lawyer. David, you mentioned the case

476
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: of a hazing victim found at the bottom of a gorge.

477
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: We always hear the big lead up.

478
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: Turn yourself in in forty eight hours or else. But

479
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: it's what happens after that. The purps are either not

480
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 2: treated as adults, of course we all know juveniles can't

481
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: be tried as adults, or they're evan like sentences. How

482
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 2: often in a case like this, even when there is

483
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: a death, David Biyanci, do you see a murder charge? Look,

484
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: I can't hold a gun to your face and pull

485
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: the trigger and when you're dead, I go, oh, I

486
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: just meant to scare him.

487
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: That's not the letter of the law. David, No, no, Nancy,

488
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: it's not.

489
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 13: And to answer your question, how many times have I

490
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 13: seen a murder charge where someone dies in hazing.

491
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 8: Never, I can tell you never.

492
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 17: And in many of the instances, I don't see any charges.

493
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 17: I come back to Antonio Sialis at Cornell twenty nineteen,

494
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 17: a very carefully orchestrated night of hazing, and the next

495
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 17: day he's found dead at the bottom of a gorge.

496
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 17: Not a single criminal charge filed. I reached out to

497
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 17: the prosecutor at Thompson County, spoke to the office, laid

498
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 17: out all the evidence about why they should bring the charges.

499
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 17: They never filed a single charge, and the universities go

500
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 17: light on these guys to participate. It just leads to

501
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 17: the same thing over and over again. It doesn't curtail

502
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 17: the conduct. And I don't care how many laws you pass, well,

503
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 17: how many seminars they have to go to.

504
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 10: It's not enough.

505
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

506
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: His wrists and hands are bound and a pillowcase thrown

507
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: over his head as he's stuffed into the trunk of

508
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 3: a car. The mass men drive and dump the boy

509
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: at another secluded area as they taunt and mock the underclassmen.

510
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: I want you to hear about the case of Danny.

511
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 13: Listen, Danny Santully is still unable to speak. He has

512
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 13: massive brain damage. He's lost his eyesight, he's blind, and

513
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 13: he cannot walk.

514
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 10: They got all these pledges to come to the fraternity house.

515
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 10: They all had to take off their shirts. They then

516
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 10: were all blind told that this is all on video.

517
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 10: You don't have to trust what I'm telling you. It's

518
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 10: all on surveillance video. They then paraded them down into

519
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 10: the basement and down there they met their dad and

520
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 10: they removed their blindfolds. They were given their bottle, their

521
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 10: family bottle to alcohol. Many of them then had the

522
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 10: bottle taped to their hand. They then paraded upstairs with

523
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 10: the bottle tape to their hand and then started to

524
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 10: drink with the alcohol that was spread out around the house.

525
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: Reports eyewitnesses relate that a funnel a funnel was actually

526
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: put shoved into Danny's mouth.

527
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 10: WebStar comes along, puts a tube in his mouth with

528
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 10: a funnel, pour his beer down his throat. After he

529
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 10: had consumed about half the bottle of alcohol, and approximately

530
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 10: twenty minutes later, while Danny is still out in the

531
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 10: courtyard with maybe one hundred pledges and trap members, you

532
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 10: can see Danny start to wabble and then he collapses.

533
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 10: You see him fall backwards over a piece of furniture

534
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 10: and onto the ground. They then pick them up. They

535
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 10: carry him into the house and they put him in

536
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 10: a TV room where they have couches, and a couple

537
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 10: of guys bring him in and they PLoP them down

538
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 10: on the couch and he's still alive. He's moving around,

539
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 10: but you can tell he's in distress. And more so

540
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 10: now Danny is totally left alone. He's now flat on

541
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 10: the couch. He slides off the couch with his face

542
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 10: planted on the floor and his feet on the couch,

543
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 10: and he's not moving at all. They see that he's

544
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 10: unresponsible on the couch and they think, oh my god.

545
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 8: Maybe he's dead.

546
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 10: And they go to pick him up, and he's having

547
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 10: a hard time picking Danny up. So they got some

548
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 10: big guy to pick him up and they scoop him

549
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 10: up off the couch and they're not going to call

550
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 10: nine to one one, and they're holding him upside down,

551
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 10: if you can picture such a thing. And as they're

552
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 10: getting to the exit door, they drop him on his

553
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 10: head and then they have to get him back up

554
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 10: again and they carry him outside, put him in the car.

555
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 10: He's now technically dead. They get him over to the hospital,

556
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 10: to the er somebody can twenty hours from the eer,

557
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 10: they do CPR and then restart as hard.

558
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: Oh my stage, does it never end? David beyond you?

559
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 2: What happened to Danny.

560
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 13: Danny Santulli at the University of Missouri is the worst

561
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 13: fraternity hazing injury where a victim lived in the history

562
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 13: of the United States. You cannot be more seriously injured

563
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 13: than the injuries that Danny has. He is alive today,

564
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 13: being taken care of by his parents. That's their choice,

565
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 13: in their home. Again their choice, and his condition is

566
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 13: unchanged today. He still is blind, can't walk, can't speak,

567
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 13: will never be able to take care of himself, all

568
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 13: because he went through a hazing incident that's been repeated

569
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 13: hundreds of times around the United States over many years,

570
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 13: the passing of the family bottle of alcohol, and every

571
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 13: time it happens, everybody says, we're going to make sure

572
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 13: this never happens again, and it does happen again because

573
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 13: we're not doing the right things to stop it.

574
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 11: When Robert Champion was experiencing a ritual hazing at Florida

575
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 11: A and M. At least eighteen band members were present.

576
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 11: Band members described a chaotic and violet ritual called crossing

577
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 11: bus se. The band buses parked behind an Orlando hotel

578
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 11: after a game and Champion has to push his way

579
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 11: from the front of the bus to the back with

580
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 11: roughly twenty people punching, kicking, and hitting him with drum mallets.

581
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 9: Was he like shaking or anything like that part of it? Oh? Yeah,

582
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:31,479
Speaker 9: he wasn't.

583
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 6: He wasn't shaking.

584
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 5: I don't know how he would tug and then you

585
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 5: know he was.

586
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 10: He was.

587
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 5: He was shaking it and.

588
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 15: Not doing anything.

589
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: Okay, he's totally lying.

590
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: The boy was not just sitting there, this young man,

591
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: Robert Champion, for peace sake, he was a member of

592
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: the band.

593
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: The band I mean data BEYONKEI.

594
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 2: How often do you think of the school band turning

595
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 2: violent and killing a band member?

596
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 9: Never?

597
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: Maybe lacrosse, maybe football, but the band for Pete Satan Beyonki.

598
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 6: No, No, you're right, hardly ever.

599
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 2: Doctor Bricado, even in the band Fatal Hazy.

600
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 14: Unfortunately, in any group of people where there are people

601
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 14: that are trying to come together under the umbrella of

602
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 14: you know, group, brotherhood, the sisterhood, whatever, it can bring

603
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 14: out this awful quality in people where some sadistic person

604
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 14: who wants you to depend upon them convinces other people

605
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 14: in the group to basically participate in the process of

606
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 14: breaking these people, so that in the name of cohesion,

607
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 14: you give up your will and you're abused, and it

608
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 14: is horrendous. And I have to tell you, Nancy, I

609
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 14: think it's wonderful that you're calling it out because it

610
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 14: is not properly prosecuted. Often I think because it's.

611
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: Not it's not darger bricado, and there's no nice way

612
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 2: to say it. We keep calling it hazing. This is

613
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: an aggravated assault. The other cases are murder. And what

614
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: I don't understand to Joe Scott Morgan, who is describing

615
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 2: what actually happens when you have a hood put over

616
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: your head, your hands are bound, you're breathing shallow lee,

617
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: and you're thrown.

618
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: In the trunk of a car.

619
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, if this happened to an adult, not

620
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 2: a child, these would be murder and kidnapping charges. As

621
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, Joe Scott, you have everybody on

622
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: this panel is going to know this nine one one

623
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: caller is lying about what happened to this young man,

624
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: the band member, Robert Champion. Listen to this, Joe Scott,

625
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: Are you with him right now?

626
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: I'm with him?

627
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 10: Maam?

628
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 9: You got okay?

629
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 10: Okay?

630
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 9: Well I want to lay him on the floor. Be

631
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 9: on the floor.

632
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 6: Okay, on the floor.

633
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 9: Okay. Is there anything under him? No? No man looking

634
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 9: on them? Okay? Is there an ad available?

635
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 2: Joe Scott, Morgan and ad running get one in the hotel.

636
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: It's too late for that. Robert is dead.

637
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: And that nine one one caller is lying that Robert,

638
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 2: the little boy on the band, was just sitting there

639
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: and suddenly died.

640
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: That's a lie.

641
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a load of crap. And you know, way

642
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 8: they're way past this idea that they're going to be

643
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 8: able to disfigulate this young man. Right now, he's just

644
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 8: trying to cover his tracks. Did you hear kind of

645
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 8: how confused he was, not really confused. He's trying to

646
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 8: get his damn story straight at this point in Top And.

647
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 6: The thing about it means he is that when mister

648
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 6: Champion died, there was a whole bust full of witnesses

649
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 6: and also participants that were egging this thing on.

650
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 2: You know what, Joe Scott, I'm so glad you said

651
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: that same thing here. And Mary Keeler, what are the

652
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 2: charges in the current case.

653
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 7: So, because all eleven of those players that have turned

654
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 7: themselves in itselves in within that forty eight hour window,

655
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 7: that amnesty window ultimatum that the district attorney gave last Tuesday,

656
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 7: what they were all given was an appearance ticket for

657
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 7: unlawful imprisonment. Imprisonment that is a Class A misdemeanor.

658
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: Are any of them in jail?

659
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: Let me make it, pull it down. Are any of

660
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: them in jail? Okay to Sherry Folds. You heard Mary Keeler,

661
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: None of them are in jail. That was some ultimatum.

662
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: It's never going to end unless we crack down and

663
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 2: sentence these perps to jail time.

664
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: Do I want to see a seventeen or eighteen year

665
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: old go to jail.

666
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: No, But what I don't want to see even more

667
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: is another dead child over hazing.

668
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's just so distrating. And I think until staff

669
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 4: of these high schools and parents starts with the parents

670
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 4: take this seriously, it's not going to change. We can

671
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: do as much education.

672
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: As When you say that, Sherry Foults, that means another mother,

673
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: another mother like you, is going to get that phone

674
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: call another mother. Do you know, Sherry, that my children

675
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 2: are looking at colleges right now, and every time we

676
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: go look at a college, I think about Stone, I

677
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 2: think about Timothy, I think about Robert Champion. It just

678
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: nothing is changing, Sherry, Nothing is changing.

679
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: It's not.

680
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 4: And it's very frustrating from the parents who have to

681
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 4: continue to watch this, who've lost their child from hazing.

682
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,919
Speaker 4: And you know, we send our kids off. I sent

683
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 4: Stone off to college. You know, he was considered an adult,

684
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 4: and you expect that the university, the university president, all

685
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 4: the faculty, you're going to take care of them, that

686
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 4: they're doing what they're supposed to do in their jobs

687
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 4: and preventing this this type of tragedy. And unfortunately, and how.

688
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: Do you keep from just running out in the street

689
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: and screaming your head off every day?

690
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 4: It's it's definitely it's mental. I've learned to, you know,

691
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 4: just deal with it and continue to to do as

692
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 4: many speaking engagements that we can. We're fighting to push

693
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 4: more laws, you know, and and you know the federal

694
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 4: law has passed this previous uh last October November. And

695
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 4: you know, those types of laws being passed if we

696
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 4: can't enforce them because of the federal law is a

697
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 4: transparency Act and more transparency is being pushed pushed upon hazing.

698
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 4: But if these laws are not being enforced, it's not

699
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 4: going to do any good.

700
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the

701
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: current hazing incident, dial three one five four three five

702
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: three zero four four. We remember American Hero Sergeant Lionel Martinez, Junior,

703
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: Almo College, PD, Texas, twenty one years in law enforcement,

704
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: leaving behind wife turned widow, Claudia, children Liza, Lionel, Kimberly, Kathleen,

705
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: and Lacy. American Hero Sergeant Lionel Martinez Junior, Nancy Grace

706
00:41:53,719 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: signing off goodbye friend B