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Speaker 1: Hi'm George and Orian. Welcome to the new I Heart

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Speaker 1: Media and Coast to Coast, a imparanormal podcast network. Like

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Speaker 1: us on Facebook, Tell your friends and share us with everyone.

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Speaker 1: This is an exciting new network that will feature podcasts

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Speaker 1: of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Now, please sit

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Speaker 1: back and enjoy Shades of the Afterlife with Sander Champlain. Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sanders Samplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been

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Speaker 1: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death.

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Speaker 1: On each episode will discuss the reasons we now know

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Speaker 1: that our loved ones have survived physical death and so

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Speaker 1: will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. I have

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Speaker 1: learned the hard way that there is an easy way

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Speaker 1: to lose people you care about in your life. Talk

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Speaker 1: about politics or talk about religion. People definitely have their

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Speaker 1: opinions on both, and sometimes when you voice your opinion,

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Speaker 1: people can change the way they think about you. I

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Speaker 1: grew up Catholic and was told what to believe, and

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Speaker 1: even spent eight years of my life going to Catholic school.

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Speaker 1: When I left home and grew a little older, I

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Speaker 1: eventually started questioning my religion, realizing that a great number

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Speaker 1: of people believe in other things. When I started my

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Speaker 1: journey looking for evidence of the afterlife, I did study

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Speaker 1: major world religions, and I was so grateful to find

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Speaker 1: out that all religions believe in some kind of an afterlife,

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Speaker 1: even atheists and agnostics. While many don't believe in God,

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Speaker 1: they do believe in something, some thread of life of

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Speaker 1: energy that seems to run through everything, including the never

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Speaker 1: ending universe. In fact, not to offend readers of my book,

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Speaker 1: We Don't Die, I included a whole chapter about religion

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Speaker 1: so people of any faith could feel comfortable reading the

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Speaker 1: book knowing they're not going against their religion reading a

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Speaker 1: book on the afterlife. I've met many Biblical scholars that

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Speaker 1: believe in the afterlife and believe that it's okay to

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Speaker 1: communicate with our own loved ones through talking with them

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Speaker 1: directly or by consulting a medium. They speak of the

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Speaker 1: Bible being changed many many times by rulers of the day,

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Speaker 1: creating fear based religion instead of embracing an all loving God.

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Speaker 1: For myself, I don't belong to any set religion. I

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Speaker 1: belong to the Church of Sandra, meaning that I'm fifty

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Speaker 1: four years old and twenty five years of investigation into

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Speaker 1: life after death and investigating many of the top religions.

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Speaker 1: I take what I like. I take what works from

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Speaker 1: my belief systems and my values, those that embrace the afterlife,

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Speaker 1: being of service to others, living a meaningful life, looking

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Speaker 1: for good and others, loving the heck out of people,

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Speaker 1: and taking every experience as growth for my soul. But

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Speaker 1: the journey hasn't been pretty. If you've heard my earlier episodes,

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Speaker 1: I strongly state don't push your beliefs on others. One day,

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Speaker 1: I was so excited to share my research that when

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Speaker 1: an old friend asked what's new, I thought I'd share

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Speaker 1: the world of the afterlife. According to Sandra, the look

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Speaker 1: on her face was awful. Not knowing she was now

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Speaker 1: a devout born again Christian, she quickly grabbed my hands,

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Speaker 1: put her head down, and started to pray for me,

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Speaker 1: including to take the demons from my soul. Wow. I

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Speaker 1: even have a family member heavily involved with the church

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Speaker 1: that doesn't agree with my passion for helping people through

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Speaker 1: grief by sharing what I've discovered about the afterlife. Sorry

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Speaker 1: to say, we haven't had a relationship in many years,

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Speaker 1: and honestly it hurts. Yet I know in my heart

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Speaker 1: of hearts, I've helped others believe, and that's how men

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Speaker 1: broken hearts comfort people and it's helped put their life

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Speaker 1: in perspective, even avoided many suicides. This episode, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to share with you a conversation I had with the

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Speaker 1: pastor John Burke, who is the New York Times bestselling

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Speaker 1: author of Imagine Heaven. Pastor Burke says an estimated one

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Speaker 1: out of every twenty five Americans has had a near

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Speaker 1: death experience, and he has personally studied over one thousand

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Speaker 1: of them. And our talk, John shares his journey and

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Speaker 1: becoming interested in life after death and compare what people

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Speaker 1: see in near death experiences to what Bible Scripture says

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Speaker 1: about heaven. John is the lead pastor of Gateway Church

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Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas, which he and his wife Cathy founded

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Speaker 1: in nine Whether or not you believe in God Jesus religion,

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Speaker 1: I asked that you listen and see what resonates with

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Speaker 1: the church of you. My intent really is to share

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Speaker 1: an extraordinary conversation and for you to feel that believing

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Speaker 1: in the afterlife is not wrong. John, how did you

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Speaker 1: get started in all this the interest of the afterlife,

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Speaker 1: which led to your book, Imagine Heaven. How did it

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Speaker 1: all begin? Actually, Imagine Heaven started five years ago, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's kind of interesting because it actually began with

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Speaker 1: my dad's death. My dad was dying of cancer, and

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Speaker 1: I was a skeptic. Um you know, how to how

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Speaker 1: to church background just enough to inoculate me and make

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Speaker 1: me say, I don't know if I believe this stuff?

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Speaker 1: You know it? Uh? I was, I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: I ended up studying engineering, becoming an engineer. So I

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Speaker 1: have a very analytical mind. I like to know why.

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Speaker 1: I'm always questioning and uh. And I had a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions and it didn't seem like anybody could really

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Speaker 1: answer my questions or or wanted to. Um. So I

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Speaker 1: was skeptical about God, about Jesus, the whole deal, and

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Speaker 1: my dad's dying of cancer. And I saw a book

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Speaker 1: on his nightstand called Life After Life. It was the

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Speaker 1: first book that coined the term near death experience. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I picked it up and I read it in

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Speaker 1: one sitting that night, and at the end of it,

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Speaker 1: I said, oh, my gosh, Jesus, you're real. That's that

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Speaker 1: was what I said. And and because so many people

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Speaker 1: had in the book talked about when they died, when

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Speaker 1: they're their hearts stopped or there, you know, brain waves ceased,

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Speaker 1: and yet they came alive like they had never come

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Speaker 1: alive before. And so many of them, uh saw this

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Speaker 1: brilliant Man of light. Many of them knew to be Jesus,

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Speaker 1: others you know, didn't know, but new God. And and

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Speaker 1: it was enough to kind of shake my skepticism to go,

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Speaker 1: I need to find out more. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: that really started me on on a spiritual search. And

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Speaker 1: as you said, I mean, uh, it's been years and

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Speaker 1: now it's been thirty five years. And that led me

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Speaker 1: from engineering actually into ministry and casting. My wife and

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Speaker 1: I started a church really for skeptics end doubters like me.

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Speaker 1: That yeah, I mean, Gateway Church was created for people

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Speaker 1: like me. And it's it is funny because as we

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Speaker 1: were talking about a little bit before the broadcast, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm a musician and an engineer. This weird mix, but

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Speaker 1: that is Austin. Austin is the live music capital of

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Speaker 1: the world and it's full of high tech engineers. So

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Speaker 1: our churches, uh, you know, for people like me who

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Speaker 1: have questions and doubts and struggles, but but are open

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Speaker 1: minded and willing to seek that. Yeah. So, so imagine

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Speaker 1: heaven actually started, you know, thirty five years ago when

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Speaker 1: I began this spiritual journey. And since then, I've read

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Speaker 1: or studied or interviewed about a thousand near death experiences.

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Speaker 1: And at the same time, you know, I've been a seminary,

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Speaker 1: and I've I've studied the Bible and depth and taught it.

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Speaker 1: And I decided to try to bring the two together

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Speaker 1: and take you know, what I started to see is

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Speaker 1: these thousand stories are actually showing us they're giving up

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Speaker 1: our imagination, um, a way to picture what what I

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Speaker 1: think the Bible has promised all along. Most people I

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Speaker 1: find have a horrible view of heaven. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: like sitting around on clouds listening to heart music and

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Speaker 1: you know, wish you brought a magazine, UM, And and

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Speaker 1: I did too, And what I found is, no, it

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Speaker 1: is it is life, and it's life like we've always

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Speaker 1: meant for it to be. Uh. And so seeing all

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Speaker 1: these I decided to write about it. And it just

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Speaker 1: so happened that I finished the manuscript as my mom

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Speaker 1: was dying, so kind of two strange bookends. And my

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Speaker 1: mom had had been through Alzheimer's and she couldn't even

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Speaker 1: feed herself. We had to feed her, and she had

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Speaker 1: she hadn't recognized us in a couple of years, and

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Speaker 1: and she was dying. She was in the hospital, and

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Speaker 1: my sister and I took turns uh, you know, being

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Speaker 1: with her. And while we did, I read the manuscript

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Speaker 1: to my mom and to my sister and um. And

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Speaker 1: at the end, my sister said, I want to go

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Speaker 1: with her, and I said, no, you can't, because God's

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Speaker 1: got a purpose for you here still. UM. But it

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Speaker 1: was such a beautiful thing because you know, as we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about when you when you die, you come alive

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Speaker 1: and and many times the person is still there in

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Speaker 1: the room. UM. And that's how so many skeptical doctors

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Speaker 1: and other skeptics have been convinced. It's what convinced me

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Speaker 1: that this is real and there really is life after death.

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Speaker 1: And so we we waited, and we were there when

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Speaker 1: my mom breathed her last and my sister and I

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Speaker 1: were hugging each other and we were blessing her because

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Speaker 1: we knew in that moment, you know, we hadn't really

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Speaker 1: been able to talk for years, and yet we knew

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Speaker 1: in that moment, you know, she would be there, more

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Speaker 1: alive than ever before, and hear us just blessing her

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Speaker 1: for you know, she was a single mom to us

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Speaker 1: for many years and just you know, wanted to tell

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Speaker 1: her how grateful we were. So it was kind of

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Speaker 1: an amazing book end of my my father's death and

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Speaker 1: my mom's death. And actually I like to say, they're

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Speaker 1: they're their graduation and you know what I'm hearing in this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I witness my dad passing away with cancer

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Speaker 1: and it was just brutal and just hearing once you've

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Speaker 1: had the belief and you've read the manuscript to your

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Speaker 1: mom and your sister, it just sounds like it was

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Speaker 1: a whole different kind of experience just knowing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's sad we missed the person, missed the body, but

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Speaker 1: just knowing where she's going and that she's fine. You

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Speaker 1: can't take away grief, you know, we can't. We have

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Speaker 1: to go through grief because you know, there is there

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Speaker 1: is something wrong in this world. You know, we feel it,

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Speaker 1: we know there's something missing, and and to be separated,

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Speaker 1: even if for a short amount of time for from

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Speaker 1: our loved ones. It does cause grief and you can't

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Speaker 1: get around that, but there's hope. There can be hope

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Speaker 1: in that grief because, um, you know, as I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to show in Imagine Heaven, this life is not the end.

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Speaker 1: It's the beginning. It's the introduction to the first chapter

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Speaker 1: of the real life that we were intended to live.

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Speaker 1: And that's what people consistently say when they when they

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Speaker 1: clinically die and yet are resuscitated. You know, what I've

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Speaker 1: what I've tried to do is look at the commonalities

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Speaker 1: that you see across the thousand near death experiences I

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Speaker 1: studied in different cultures, different age groups, um, and it's

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Speaker 1: amazingly consistent, and it's amazing the way it lines up,

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Speaker 1: like I said, with what the what I have found,

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Speaker 1: the Bible has been teaching all along, but people don't

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Speaker 1: take the time to really study it or really try

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Speaker 1: to imagine it. We're going to take a short break

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Speaker 1: and when we come back, we'll hear more from Pastor

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Speaker 1: John Burke. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal

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Speaker 1: podcast Network. Don't go anywhere. There's more Shades of the

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Speaker 1: Afterlife coming right up. Okay, folks, we need your music. Hey,

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Speaker 1: it's producer Tom at Coast to Coast AM and every

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Speaker 1: first Sunday of the month, we play music from emerging

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Speaker 1: artists just like you. If you're a musician or a

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Speaker 1: singer and have recorded music you'd like to submit, it's

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Speaker 1: very easy. Just go to Coast to Coast am dot com.

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Speaker 1: Click the Emerging Artists banner in the carousel, follow the

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Speaker 1: instructions and we just might play your music on the air.

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Speaker 1: Go now to Coast to Coast AM dot com to

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Speaker 1: send us your recording. That's Coast to Coast AM dot com. Hey,

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Speaker 1: it's producer Tom of Coast to Coast AM and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to Shades of the Afterlife with Sander Champlain on

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Speaker 1: the new I Heart Media and Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast Network. Don't forget you can listen to Shades

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Speaker 1: of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you find your favorite shows. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Shades the Afterlife. I'm Sander Champlain and we are with

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Speaker 1: pastor John Burke, who has researched over one thousand near

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Speaker 1: death experiences and is comparing the heaven from the near

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Speaker 1: death experience to the heaven in the Bible. And what

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Speaker 1: would it be like if we lived life really believing

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Speaker 1: in heaven. We don't really live this life to the

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Speaker 1: fullest because we don't realize there's really nothing. We don't

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Speaker 1: need to fear, and we don't need to be anxious,

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Speaker 1: and we don't need to worry so much. You know,

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Speaker 1: it gives you a bigger perspective. I totally agreed, John.

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Speaker 1: When we don't have a fear of death, we don't

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Speaker 1: have to have a fear of life. We won't be

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Speaker 1: upset by failures. We can go after our dreams, we

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Speaker 1: can love more fully, we can express ourselves. There's a

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Speaker 1: whole different world. But I wanted to ask you, what

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Speaker 1: are these similarities that you found by studying these one

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Speaker 1: thousand near death experiences? If I only included a hundred.

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Speaker 1: But but what I was trying to is when you

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Speaker 1: when you see and hear through the hundred or so

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Speaker 1: people that I that I put in the book, and

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Speaker 1: I let you hear through their words, what you begin

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Speaker 1: to see is this panoramic picture of what heaven is

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Speaker 1: going to be like, and by the end you feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit like you've been there. The first commonality

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Speaker 1: is that people come alive, like I said, So I

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Speaker 1: write in chapter two of Imagine Heaven about skeptical doctors

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Speaker 1: in the afterlife, And like I said, what convinced so

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Speaker 1: many skeptical doctors is that when people die, they say

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Speaker 1: they they they actually left their bodies, but they were

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Speaker 1: still themselves and they were there present in the room,

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Speaker 1: actually watching the resuscitation events. So one one cardiologist uh

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Speaker 1: Dr Michael Sabam, who I interviewed, he said that he

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Speaker 1: didn't believe in uh He didn't think there was anything

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Speaker 1: such as a new death experience, he said, but then

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Speaker 1: um he asked one of his patients, Pete, if anything

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Speaker 1: happened during his cardiac arrest, and then he said, Pete

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Speaker 1: told me he had left his body during this first

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Speaker 1: cardiac arrest and had watched the resuscitation. Sabam said, when

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Speaker 1: I asked him to tell me what exactly he saw,

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Speaker 1: he described the resuscitation with such detail and accuracy I

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Speaker 1: could have later used it to tape. The tape to

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Speaker 1: teach physicians. And he talks about how he began to

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Speaker 1: interview more and more and he said, these people like

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Speaker 1: Pete Morton, UM you know, saw details of the resuscitation

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Speaker 1: that could not otherwise have seen. One patient noticed the

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Speaker 1: physician who failed to wear UH scuffs over his white

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Speaker 1: shoes during open heart surgery. He said, in many cases,

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Speaker 1: I was able to go back and confirm the patient's

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Speaker 1: testimony with the medical records and the hospital staff, and

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Speaker 1: we see this again and again. Um Dr Pim van

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Speaker 1: Lammel in Holland. UH actually published oh and UH save

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Speaker 1: them published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

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Speaker 1: So he published his findings. Uh Dr Pim van Lammel

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Speaker 1: reads about them in UM in Holland, and he starts

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Speaker 1: asking some of his patients, and one that he talks

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Speaker 1: about was published in the Lancet, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: the UH premier journal of medicine in Europe. Where a

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Speaker 1: guy came into the hospital and he had been unconscious.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't breathing, his heart had stopped, and so they

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Speaker 1: start CPR and the nurse noticed that he had dentures,

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Speaker 1: and so they took his dentures out before ventilating them

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Speaker 1: and put it in the lower drawer of the crash cart. Um.

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Speaker 1: He his heart started beating, but he never became conscious.

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Speaker 1: In the e er, they moved him out of the

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Speaker 1: room and he was unconscious for a week in this

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Speaker 1: other room. When he comes to, he recognizes the nurse

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Speaker 1: who Uh and says, that's the nurse who knows where

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Speaker 1: my dentures are. That's the nurse that put my dentures

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Speaker 1: in the lower drawer of the crash car because they

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Speaker 1: couldn't find his dentures. And so these these stories are

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Speaker 1: actually very common that when people die, we leave our bodies,

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Speaker 1: but we feel more alive than we've ever felt before,

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Speaker 1: not just with five senses, but they talk about how

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Speaker 1: it's more like you have fifty senses. It's like you

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Speaker 1: are super alive. And and one of the other commonalities

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Speaker 1: is people don't want to come back because this life

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Speaker 1: ends up feeling more like the shadow, and that feels

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Speaker 1: like to concrete, real existence we were intended for. I

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Speaker 1: talked about how I believe in in the Bible. Paul Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know the apostle Paul who wrote a good chunk

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Speaker 1: of the New Testament. Um. He actually was a skeptic

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Speaker 1: as well and was arresting Christians and throwing them in prison.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was a Jewish rabbi and um. But

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Speaker 1: but at one well, he has this encounter with his

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Speaker 1: brilliant Man of Light, who that's another commonality of these

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Speaker 1: near death experiences, and that turns him around, you know, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this encounter with Jesus that turns him around. And you

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Speaker 1: know he goes around, uh, you know, starting churches across

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Speaker 1: the Mediterranean. Well, at one point, um a crowd turns

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Speaker 1: on him and and they stone him to death. And

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Speaker 1: it says they stoned Paul and dragged him out of town,

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Speaker 1: thinking he was dead. But as the believers gathered around him,

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Speaker 1: he got up and went back into the town. And

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Speaker 1: I actually believe Paul had a near death experience. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was dead enough to drag him out and leave

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Speaker 1: him for dead, and then he gets back up and

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Speaker 1: runs back in. Now, personally, I wouldn't go back into

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Speaker 1: the town that just stoned me. But but he does,

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Speaker 1: and then he later Paul says in Second Corinthians twelve

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Speaker 1: to UM talking about himself, he says, I was caught

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Speaker 1: up to the Third heaven fourteen years ago. Whether whether

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Speaker 1: I was in my body or out of my body,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Only God knows, but I know I

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Speaker 1: was caught up into paradise and hurt. Things so astounding

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Speaker 1: they cannot be expressed in words, things no human is

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Speaker 1: allowed to tell. And I think he's talking about how

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Speaker 1: what what People who have had their death experiences say that,

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Speaker 1: like they still had a body, so he didn't know

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Speaker 1: if he was in his body round of body because

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Speaker 1: he felt alive. Um. And and that is one of

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Speaker 1: the commonalities. Another one is that we see each other,

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Speaker 1: we're ourselves, we recognize each other. There's this incredible reunion,

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Speaker 1: this welcoming committee. Uh many times there to greet us

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Speaker 1: and welcome us. And there are most commonly our friends

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Speaker 1: and our relatives, those who have gone on before us.

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Speaker 1: That's so happy to have that visual. Well, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'd like to say it like this, you know,

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Speaker 1: I I think, um, I think it's ironic that people.

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Speaker 1: I find people fear Heaven um and fear God many

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Speaker 1: times as in a you know, uh just want to

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Speaker 1: push him away because somehow they think he wants to

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Speaker 1: take love and take relationship from us. And yet nothing

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Speaker 1: could be further from the truth. God created us for

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Speaker 1: love first with himself. I mean, that's what Jesus taught

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Speaker 1: that if you love God with all you've got and

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Speaker 1: then love people, that sums up all the commands of

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Speaker 1: the Bible. It sums it all up right there. And

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Speaker 1: so to think that heaven where things are finally where

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Speaker 1: God's will is done, you know, Jesus taught us to

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Speaker 1: pray your will be done on earth as it is

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Speaker 1: in heaven. And he taught us to pray that because

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Speaker 1: his will is not always done on earth, but it

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Speaker 1: is in heaven. So to think that where God's will

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Speaker 1: is done, we would somehow be less alive, less ourselves,

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Speaker 1: less loving, less relational, doesn't make any sense. And yet

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Speaker 1: I find that's the common view people have. But what

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Speaker 1: near death experiences teach us is that, no, it's a

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Speaker 1: big reunion. It's a huge celebration, you know, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I mean, Jesus said this. He said this to

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Speaker 1: to to his closest friends the night before his crucifixion.

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Speaker 1: He said, look, don't don't be troubled. He said, there's

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Speaker 1: there's more than enough room in my father's home, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to prepare a place for you. When everything

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Speaker 1: is ready, I'll come and get you so that you

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Speaker 1: will always be with me where I am. And he

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Speaker 1: talked about how we're gonna drink wine and we're gonna eat,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna celebrate. It's going to be this party.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, how many people really think about heaven

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Speaker 1: as a party. Not too many? Not too many, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean most people think of heaven as as an

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Speaker 1: extended eternal church service. That sounds bad to me. And

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Speaker 1: I'm a pastor, right, you know that's not it. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be life. Jesus said, it's going to be abundant life. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's the that's the hope that we

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Speaker 1: we have really is we were meant to be together,

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Speaker 1: we were meant to love God, and we were meant

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Speaker 1: to love others, and that's really what heaven is all about.

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Speaker 1: But it's not less life, and it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be born, No, I don't think so. And what you

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Speaker 1: mentioned about people you've interviewed, I've spoken with many people

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Speaker 1: who have had a near death experience and they say

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Speaker 1: there are no words to fully describe their experience. There's

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Speaker 1: this feeling of intense, wonderful, unconditional love, well exactly, and

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Speaker 1: that that's what I was trying to do in Imagine

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Speaker 1: Heaven because I had read and studied all these stories

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Speaker 1: and and what the scripture says. And I've felt like

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Speaker 1: people don't have this view. And until you hear it,

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Speaker 1: you you know, if you've if you've interviewed enough, you've

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Speaker 1: you've heard them struggling for words, you know, like, um,

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Speaker 1: they'll say, I mean there was time, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it lasted eternity or a second right. And

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Speaker 1: and that's exactly what Peter said in Second Peter three nine.

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Speaker 1: He said to the Lord, a day is like a

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Speaker 1: thousand years, and a thousand years like a day. They

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Speaker 1: talk about colors and this light that is beyond the

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Speaker 1: spectrum of light that we have here on earth. Um

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Speaker 1: colors that just mesmerize them, way beyond our color spectrum.

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Speaker 1: And light that is palpable. Um light that conveys love,

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Speaker 1: and light that conveys life. Uh. And and here's what

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Speaker 1: I find fascinating. So um, I interviewed three blind people

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Speaker 1: that I put in Imagine Heaven. Wow, Okay, and blind

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Speaker 1: people when they have a cardiac arrest, when they die,

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Speaker 1: they can see and and they're trying to describe the

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Speaker 1: same thing, um, but listen to this. So so Vicky

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Speaker 1: is one uh blind person. She had a bad her accident,

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Speaker 1: flatlined and she was watching the doctors working on her

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Speaker 1: and thought to herself, as that my body down there?

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Speaker 1: Am I dead or what? She was trying to figure

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Speaker 1: it out because she had never seen, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and she was trying to differentiate what she had felt

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Speaker 1: and known, because that's how she had known things from

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Speaker 1: this perception she was getting. And she kept trying to

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Speaker 1: get their attention, and of course she couldn't, and they

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Speaker 1: were afraid she was going to lose her hearing. And

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Speaker 1: and finally she said, I thought, I'm out of here.

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Speaker 1: I can't get these people to listen to me. And

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Speaker 1: as soon as she thought that, she said, I went

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Speaker 1: up through the ceiling as if it was nothing, and

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Speaker 1: it was wonderful to be out there, to be free

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Speaker 1: and not worry about bumping into anything. And she said,

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Speaker 1: I knew where I was going. She finds herself going

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Speaker 1: up through this dark enclosure, she said, like like a tube.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because another blind guy didn't. He said,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden there was color and then there

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Speaker 1: was no color. He said, I wondered if that was darkness.

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Speaker 1: So going up through this passage way or this tube

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Speaker 1: or tunnel or pathway, people describe it differently. We'll be

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Speaker 1: back in just a minute. You're listening to Shades of

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Speaker 1: the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast,

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Speaker 1: a m paranormal podcast network, the best afterlife information you

429
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: can get. Well, you're al Shades of the Afterlife with

430
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 1: sand Or Champlain. The Internet is an extraordinary resource that

431
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: links our children to a world of information, experiences, and ideas.

432
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: It can also expose them to risk. Teach your children

433
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: the basic safety rules of the virtual world. Our children

434
00:26:54,560 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: are everything. Do everything for them. Hi, this is George

435
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: Nori and you're listening to Shades of the Afterlife with

436
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: Sandra Champlain on the new Ye hearten Coast to Coast,

437
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: a impy normal podcast network, and don't forget. You can

438
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: listen to Shades of the Afterlife on the Heart Radio app,

439
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite shows. Welcome

440
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlaine and

441
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: we're with Pastor John Burke as he's describing entering into

442
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: a near death experience. So going up through this passage

443
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: where this tube or tunnel or pathway. People describe it differently.

444
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: I I talk about and imagine how then maybe this

445
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: is like a wormhole from our dimensional space into God's

446
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: multidimensional space. I don't know. And so so Vicky comes

447
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: out into this place of tremendous light. Vicky said the

448
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: light was something you could feel as well as see,

449
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: and even the people she saw were bursting with light.

450
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: She said, everybody there was made of light, and it

451
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: was and I was made of light. And what the

452
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: light conveyed was love. There was love everywhere. It was

453
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: like love came out of the grass, Love came out

454
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: of the birds, love came out of the trees. It

455
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: was incredible, really beautiful. And I was overwhelmed by that

456
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 1: experience because I couldn't really imagine what what light was like.

457
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: It's still a very emotionable thing when I talk about it,

458
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: she says. And then what's amazing is Vicky um Uh

459
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: and other blind people describe light coming out of things

460
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: in heaven. Now, where would they ever get that idea?

461
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: Because light shines on things, you know, whatever, we don't

462
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: talk about like coming out of things and light conveying

463
00:28:53,720 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: love and life. And yet I interview a doctor um

464
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: Dr Mary Neil, a spine surgeon, another pastor, a t

465
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: W a airline pilot, a bank president, who are all

466
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: saying the same thing that in heaven light comes out

467
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: of everything, and it's palpable it it has life and

468
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: love in it. Now, here's the fascinating thing. That's exactly

469
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: what John says in the Book of Revelation. It's also

470
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: what Isaiah says in the Old Testament that in heaven

471
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: there is no sun or moon because the light, the

472
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: glory or light of God, is the light of heaven.

473
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: And people will walk in that light. And and here's

474
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: another fascinating thing. Daniel, another Old Testament prophet Daniel twelve

475
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: two says the dead will rise up, some to everlasting life,

476
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: some to shame and everlasting disgrace, and those who lead

477
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever. That's beautiful.

478
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: It's what they're it's exactly what they're saying they experienced.

479
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: But think about this, I mean blind people, and not

480
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: not a few, a lot saying that they see and

481
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: then describing the same things. Um Brad was an eight

482
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: year old kid um living in the Boston Center for

483
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: the Blind, and he says almost the same exact thing.

484
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: And in fact, he talks about going up this beautiful meadow,

485
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: palm trees and light coming out of everything, and the

486
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: light was palpable, he said, and he describes coming up

487
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: to this wall. Now he doesn't I don't think he

488
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: even knows what it is, because he never mentions. But

489
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: I I correlate the wall that he's talking about that

490
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: he said was shining with its own particular light, and

491
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: it looked like gemstones. And I show how a t

492
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: W a airline pilot um is talking about the same

493
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: wall flying into this city, the city of God that

494
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: John describes in revelation. And I used to read that

495
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: revelation and and it kind of sounded, you know, like, uh,

496
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: pearly gates and streets of gold, and it just sounded

497
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: like a bad televangelist set, you know. I was like that,

498
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: just you know, it sounds like you're trying too hard.

499
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: But here's what I've since realized is John was trying

500
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: to describe something that is otherworldly. But as you mentioned,

501
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: they're all trying to use terms that are three dimensional,

502
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: and it just doesn't quite cut it. And so I

503
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: correlate how how what John is describing the wall and

504
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: and and the gate it's not a gate, it's it's

505
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: a perlscent kind of material that's an otherworldly substance. And

506
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: this doctor spine surgeon, and this t W a airline pilot,

507
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 1: and this blind eight year old kid are describing the

508
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: same wall in the same gate into the city that

509
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: they're going into. It's fascinating. I mean it's just it

510
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: blows your mind. You're like, oh my gosh, what would

511
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: because you have you have to sit there and go

512
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: all right, these are these are and I've interviewed these

513
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,719
Speaker 1: people personally, I know them. Yeah, they're credible individuals, are

514
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: credible people who have nothing to gain. I mean, you

515
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: know most of them are millionaires. They don't need to

516
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: go right fantastic books about heaven. It's gonna it's gonna

517
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: mar their profession because there you know, other doctors are

518
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: gonna be like, you're crazy, right, And yet they're all

519
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: saying the same same thing from different angles, and it

520
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: really is. It's like it's like, you know, if you

521
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: had a car accident and you've got different people on

522
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: different corners, they would be telling what they saw and heard,

523
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: and after you heard all of them, you'd start to

524
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: piece it together and see a three dimensional you know, representation.

525
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: And that's really what I'm trying to do and imagine Heaven,

526
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: to show that picture that I've been able to see,

527
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: you know, or imagine because of these testimonies. This is

528
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: proving credibility. John long Ago, when I wrote my book,

529
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: I was so afraid what people would think of me.

530
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: But when I started gathering stories from professional people or

531
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: those with scientific or medical backgrounds, it made my research

532
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: more credible. I'm hearing something similar in your story. In

533
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: relation to the Bible, I've honestly held back and not

534
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: told people who are heavily religious what I'm up to,

535
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: and I've even gotten some angry emails from people telling

536
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: me that researching the afterlife is against the Bible. And

537
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: I deal with that. I deal with that. You've got

538
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: to remember something, Um, the religious crucified Jesus. Oh yeah,

539
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: how about that? Yeah, you got to remember that. So

540
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: here's the thing is that don't uh And you know this,

541
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: this was something I had to work through, and it's

542
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: it's part of why we started Gateway Church, you know,

543
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: for UH to be a come as you are place

544
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: where you know we say no perfect people allowed, and

545
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: doubters are welcome. And the reason is is because so

546
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: many people have gotten such a negative view of the

547
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: God of the Bible and have not really taken the

548
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: time to dive in and read the New Testament for themselves,

549
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 1: read the prophets for themselves, because of Christians who quite

550
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: honestly many times are not following Jesus at all. And

551
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: and and you do have to remember that, yes, religion,

552
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: but not just religion anything. We we are addicted to

553
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: playing God. I believe this is really um you know,

554
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: a A talks about addictions and how really the number

555
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: one sin is that we play God and then we

556
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: try to get everyone and everything to do our will.

557
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: What do you mean by playing God? Well, just that

558
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: all of us are. We spend most of our time,

559
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: if we're honest, getting up saying how can I have

560
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: my will be done today? And how can I get

561
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: you to obey my will? And even God? And by

562
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: the way, if God doesn't do things the way I expect,

563
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get mad at him. It's all about me attitude,

564
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: it is, and and and you know that's what that's

565
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: what Jesus was showing us is he came to live

566
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: as a human to show us the love of God

567
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: and show us a human who had wonderful boundaries. He

568
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: was not a pushover, but he could choose to love

569
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: and serve others, even to the point of laying down

570
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 1: his life, and he showed us an other centered love.

571
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: You know, he didn't do miraculous things to prove himself

572
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: to others. He did them to show the love and

573
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: the mercy of God in a broken, hurting world that

574
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: turns away from God and more often goes our way

575
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: than God's way. But he you know, I mean, the

576
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: claims of Jesus is that he came to pay for

577
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: all our wrongs and all our debts. And this is

578
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: the great liberating truth you know that I'm so passionate about,

579
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: is that we don't need to fear death, and we

580
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: don't need to fear God. And what causes us to

581
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: is it deep down we all know we screw up,

582
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, gosh, you know I've got I've

583
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: got a long long list and and and I don't

584
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: even know what God knows, right, But but God created

585
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: us for love, He created us for a relationship, and

586
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: that actually is what makes sense. I do a whole

587
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: chapter on no more pain or sorrow or suffering, and

588
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: that the only thing I can find that makes sense

589
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 1: of all the pain and the sorrow and the suffering

590
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: of this earth is if the main point is that

591
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: we were created to love God. And the reason is

592
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: is because love can't be forced. It can't be coerced.

593
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: You know, you can't put a gun to someone's head

594
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 1: and make them love you. You can make them pairt

595
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: the words I love you, you know, but that's not

596
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: real love, and we all know it. And and God

597
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: can't force love either. So God has created people that

598
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: can truly choose to reject him and go our own way.

599
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: And I think it plays itself out and we see,

600
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: you know, not God's will be done, but my will

601
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: be done, which is why Jesus taught us to pray

602
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: the opposite, right, your will be done. And it was

603
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: his last prayer, not my will. His will is I

604
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: don't want to suffer. I mean as a as you know,

605
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: as a human, he didn't want to go through that

606
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: suffering of the cross. But he said, but not my will,

607
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: your will be done. And for the sake of others.

608
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: He did that. So I think the liberating message of

609
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: the Bible is that God is for us. He's not

610
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: against us. Um and and so many people think he's

611
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: against us. He is. He's the one who created you.

612
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: He is crazy about you. This is the other thing

613
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: that I feel like. I love that he's crazy about me. No,

614
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: he is. Yeah, I like that. Everybody take that in

615
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: his listening God. And God is a very emotional god.

616
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that in chapters nine

617
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: through twelve I write about, you know, who is this

618
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: brilliant being, this brilliant God of light that people see

619
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: all over the globe. And the thing is that the

620
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: thing that's crazy is I mean, in cultures all over

621
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: the globe, when people die, many of them experienced the

622
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: presence of this brilliant man of light, who is brighter

623
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: than the sun, who is love unconditional, knows our every thought,

624
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: every deed, everything, And yet in his presence they feel

625
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: more alive they've ever felt. They never want to leave

626
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: his presence. And they're describing the one who Jesus, who

627
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: said I am the Light of the World's the same

628
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: one that Daniel, the Old Testament prophet saw by the Tigris.

629
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: Rivers said, his face flash like lightning. You know, it's

630
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: like bright as lightning. Um. Paul, as I said, was

631
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: persecuting Christians. And he has this experience on a Damascus

632
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: road where this brilliant man of light says, Paul, why

633
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: are you persecuting me? And he said who are you?

634
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: And he said, I'm Jesus and and the one you

635
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: were persecuting. And you know, Paul goes on, like I said,

636
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: to start all these churches. John and the Book of

637
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: Revelation talks about his eyes are like um, he describes

638
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: them like fire. But I've near death experiencers have described

639
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: looking into his eyes and it's like like all the

640
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: colors at once. Um. But that just draw you in

641
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: and they feel like they know everything in an instant

642
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: looking into his eyes. We're going to take one more

643
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 1: break and then we'll be back with Pastor John Burke.

644
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I

645
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, a m paranormal podcast network.

646
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. There's more Shades of the Afterlife coming

647
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 1: right up. Hey, the Coast to Coast on YouTube channels

648
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more information.

649
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife with Sandra Shamplaining

650
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 1: on the new I Heart Media and Coast to Coast,

651
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: an paranormal podcast network. Don't forget. You can listen to

652
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio app,

653
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite shows. Welcome

654
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: back to Shades the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we

655
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: are with Pastor John Burke, and he's talking about how

656
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: so many people who have near death experiences see the

657
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: same face of God. Yeah, and that's the thing is that.

658
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, children, airline pilots, people in the

659
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: Middle East, people in India. Um, they're seeing the same God.

660
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: He's not impersonal. He is a brilliant being of light.

661
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: And actually, uh, they'll say, not male or female, just God. Um.

662
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: But at the same time, people who know Jesus seemed

663
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: to know he's Jesus, and in his presence they feel

664
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: so known, so loved. Um never want to leave his presence.

665
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: And another commonality is he gives him a life review,

666
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: so they get to relive their lives like in a

667
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: three dimensional panoramic replay and and again. Time doesn't work

668
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: the same way. So it's they don't know if it's

669
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: an instant or they relive the whole all the years.

670
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: But it's like that. And what's fascinating again is that

671
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: people come back and what they what they experienced. Let

672
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: me read you. Let me read you some of the

673
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: things that they say. Can I yeah, absolutely, Okay. So

674
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: this one woman said, I went through this dark, black

675
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: vacuum at superspeed. You could compare it to a tunnel.

676
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: I saw a bright light and on my way there,

677
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: I heard beautiful music and saw colors that I've never

678
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 1: seen before. Oh the music is another one we got

679
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: to talk about. That blows your mind, she said. She

680
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: comes into the presence of She says, the it was

681
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of everything there is, of energy, of love especially,

682
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: but of warmth of beauty. I was immersed in this

683
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: feeling of total love from the moment the light spoke

684
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: to me. I felt really good, secure and loved. The

685
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: love which came from it was unimaginable, indescribable, and it

686
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: was a fun person to be with. Definitely had a

687
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: sense of humor. I never wanted to leave the presence

688
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: of this being my whole life so far appeared to

689
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: be placed before me, kind of like a panoramic, three

690
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: dimensional review, and each event seemed to be accompanied by

691
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: an awareness of good and evil, or by an insight

692
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 1: into its cause and effect. Throughout I not only saw

693
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: everything from my own point of view, but I knew

694
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: the thoughts of everybody who I had been involved with

695
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: in these events. And throughout the reviews stressed the importance

696
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: of love. Now, this is amazingly common that people experience

697
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: this life review in the presence of this God of

698
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: light and love, um and and and again. You know,

699
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: Jesus said, God is love. I mean, it's it's who

700
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: he is, and and it's what Jesus came to show us,

701
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: that that love lays down his life for us. There's

702
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: nothing he would do for us. And in the presence

703
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: of this God of love, they re experience all their

704
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: interactions with people, and what they all come back realizing

705
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: is that love is the point of it all. And

706
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: they experienced their little acts of kindness, but they all

707
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: so experienced their unkind acts, and they experienced how it

708
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: affected the people around them, and the ripple effect that

709
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: it has through humanity. That's incredible. It's profound, and it

710
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: profoundly changes the way people live. And I can tell

711
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: you it's profoundly changed the way I live. I mean

712
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: a big part of why I you know, I was

713
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: willing to leave engineering and you know, take a third

714
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: of my salary to try to, uh, you know, minister

715
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: to people who were doubters and skeptics and addicts. And

716
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: you know, you know, feeling the hurts and the wounds

717
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: of life is because it changed what life is about

718
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: to me. Um. You know, there was another pastor that

719
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: I I quote in Imagine Heaven, and it was a

720
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,919
Speaker 1: good reminder for me too, because you know, I lead

721
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: a large church, thousands of people, and he did too.

722
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: And you know, in everything in life, it's so easy

723
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: to get lost, you know. I mean, hey, I'm far

724
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: from perfect, you know, and even knowing all this and

725
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: saying all this, it's like, it's just so easy to

726
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: get bruised and beat up and lost in life. And

727
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: I read, uh, I read this guy's story. What happened is, Um,

728
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: you know, he's leading this big church, doing lots of

729
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: lots of good stuff. Um, but he actually dies on

730
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: the on the operating table and He said that he

731
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: rose above his body and he's watching the operation, and

732
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: God is there with him, this brilliant being of light.

733
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: And he says, God gave me a number of life altering,

734
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: unforgettable messages that I'll take to my grave. Some I

735
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: can share, some are more personal. We did not communicate

736
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: just with words, but also with memories and images. Oh,

737
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: by the way, that's another one. The communication of heaven

738
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: is perfect. It's thought to thought. It's complete, and it's

739
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: it's feelings, it's memories, it's images, it's everything. He says, Um,

740
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: God let me know just how much he valued me.

741
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to describe the perfect sense of acceptance

742
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: that surrounded me. Yet even in the midst of this

743
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: very personal embrace, part of me knew that not everything

744
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: in my life had matched what God had intended for me.

745
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: Despite my list of fiasco's, God had extended his total

746
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: acceptance and absolute love to me and showed me how

747
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: He's going to give me another chance. I got the

748
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: sense that God was going to give me an opportunity

749
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: to let go of the things that had become idols

750
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: in my life and allow me to begin to embrace

751
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: people instead. I was to become the husband and father

752
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be. Right there in the I

753
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: c u ward I realized I didn't even know the

754
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: names of any of my children's friends. Here's the what

755
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: he actually and what he said was he said, God

756
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: asked me, what are the names of your children's best friends?

757
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: And he said he was sitting there watching his operation

758
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: listen to this and just stuck like and he said,

759
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, my my, my children's friends have been over

760
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: all the time. But I'm a busy, important pastor. I

761
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: you know, I was nice to them, but he didn't believe.

762
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: But he didn't even know their names. And God, the

763
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: God he worshiped and was leading others to worship and follow,

764
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: asked him that simple question, you know, and this this

765
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: is the thing, This is the thing that's really changed me.

766
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: You know, we all want to change the world in

767
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: our own way. We want to matter, we want we

768
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: want our lives to matter. Jesus said, if we will

769
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: love God and love your neighbor as much as you

770
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 1: do yourself, then you fulfill the essence of your purpose.

771
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: You know, I think that also includes using our gifts

772
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: to serve humanity, to do good for humanity. But but

773
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: you know what, what you start to realize. And there's

774
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: another guy, Howard Storm, who he was actually an atheist

775
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: professor who had a life review and and and he

776
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: talks about how Jesus basically shows him this plan of

777
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: how you love the people around you and it will

778
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: change the world. And he was kind of he was

779
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: he said, I was kind of questioning Jesus about it, like,

780
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: come on, that's not gonna work. And and what he

781
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: what he realized was it's the ripple effect of humanity.

782
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,720
Speaker 1: God doesn't need us to change the world. He needs

783
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: us to love the people around us. And when we

784
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: all do that, that does change the world. I heard

785
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: somebody say once that you can't be experiencing love and

786
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: fear at the same time, so we can always find

787
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: a way to experience love. John, I have a question.

788
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: I got a tough email not too long ago from

789
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: a woman whose two children and husband were killed in

790
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: a car accident, and she said, if heaven is so great,

791
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: why can't I go there now and be with my family.

792
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,240
Speaker 1: I truly believe our lives here are for a purpose,

793
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: But can you just speak to that? Yeah, And let

794
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: me just say to um, we are not to take

795
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: our own lives. That is, that is absolutely and you know,

796
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: people who have and have had near death experiences and

797
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,479
Speaker 1: came back realized that was the biggest mistake that could

798
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: have possibly made, because again, that's the ultimate act of

799
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: playing God rather than trusting God. I was saying, I

800
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: can determine when a life has purpose, even if it's

801
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: my own, you know. And and and part of learning

802
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: to love God and others is we've got to love ourselves.

803
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: We've got to realize that God loves us, so we

804
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: are of value, we are of worth to him, and

805
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: we have purpose. He created us, and he created us

806
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: for a purpose. Now, I found it interesting to realize

807
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: that though everybody who had this life review knew and

808
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 1: saw very clearly that truth that they have a purpose,

809
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: that God has a purpose, and so many times God

810
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: would say to people, you're your purpose is not complete,

811
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: yet you've got to go back, and yet they still

812
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: struggled with it. And I don't know, personally, I find

813
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 1: that encouraging that that it's not it's not like, oh,

814
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: I get it, you know, there's and now there's no

815
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: struggle and it's just like all obvious, No, no, there

816
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: there is a struggle still of just realizing, Okay, how

817
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: do I you know, how do I just walk day

818
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: by day being faithful with the gifts I've given to

819
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: to love and serve God and the people He's put

820
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: around me, you know, or you know, if you're a doctor,

821
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: how to use my gifts, you know, not just to

822
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: serve myself, but to really heal people and care about

823
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: the patients. You know, that was what Howard Storm learned. Uh,

824
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: you know that that he was he was obsessed with

825
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 1: being a great professor and artist, but Jesus was concerned

826
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: with how he treated his students. And I think I think,

827
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 1: you know, keeping that in mind. The other thing that's

828
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: so incur incredibly encouraging about that we can all succeed.

829
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 1: You know, look, most of us, most of us will

830
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: not succeed by the world's definition, Like most of us

831
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: are not going to be super super wealthy, or super

832
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: famous or celebrities or fitness perfect. It's not gonna happen.

833
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: But when you realize is that we can all succeed,

834
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: not compared to each other, but compared to the unique

835
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: path God has laid out for us. Thank you, John Burke.

836
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: So how are you feeling a little more comfortable that

837
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: it's okay to be religious and explore topics on the afterlife?

838
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: I hope. So. You know, it's funny many of us

839
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: walk around believing that people would think we were crazy

840
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: if they knew we were interested in the afterlife. What's

841
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: funny about that is most of the people we see

842
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: walking around also think you would think them crazy. So

843
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: how do you open up with someone and see if

844
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: they're interested? Just drop a hint, Ask something like, have

845
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: you heard of stories of people that have had near

846
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: death experiences? What do you think about that? Or have

847
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 1: you heard that new show on I Heart Radio called

848
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife? Shameless plug. Either people will pick

849
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: up on the hint and engage you in conversation, or

850
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: they won't. I'll bet you'll be surprised that more people

851
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: are interested than aren't. Don't forget. You can pick up

852
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 1: a free PDF copy of my book We Don't Die

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00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 1: As Skeptics Discovery of Life after Death and an audio

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00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: called how to Survive Grief at my website Sandra Champlaine

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00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: dot com. Thank you for listening. We were talking to

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00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: pastor John Burke, the author of Imagine Heaven. I'm Sandra

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00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: Champlain and you've been listening to Shades of the Afterlife

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00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio and Coast host a m

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00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: paranormal podcast network. You've been listening to Shades of the

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00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 1: Afterlife with Sandra Champlain for shows like this and others.

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00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: Please make sure to tune into the new I Heart

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00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: Media in Coast to Coast, a paranormal podcast network, on

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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