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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know stories of

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Speaker 1: things we simply don't know the answer too. Well, Hey everybody,

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Speaker 1: and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am Steve, of course, I am joined by Devin

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Speaker 1: and Joe, and once again we got a mystery. We

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Speaker 1: managed to fish another one out. We did, we got one.

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Speaker 1: There's still a couple left in the world, only a

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Speaker 1: few fish in a barrel. Well. Anyway, so today we

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Speaker 1: are going to talk about another historical mystery, because I'm

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Speaker 1: evidently on a historical mystery bank. Some of us are, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like we did the room Stone, Yeah, that was mine even, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we really have That was a scary one. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna deal some killing soon. Yeah. Yeah. From my

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Speaker 1: from my most my last one that we just did,

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Speaker 1: I was I was like, you know, knife edge, do

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Speaker 1: I do it? Disappearance to a murder? I was, And

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Speaker 1: I was leading heavily towards towards murder knife Edge. So

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Speaker 1: the next one, I think it's gonna be a real bloody,

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Speaker 1: disgusting murder. Sweet, Well, let's talk about this non bloody,

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Speaker 1: non murder story. The mystery. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: today is did Frederick Cook make it to the North

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Speaker 1: Pole to be the first man in recorded history to

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Speaker 1: make it there? Um, Now, before we get into story,

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Speaker 1: of course, as normal, we got this from one of

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Speaker 1: our listeners, because you guys suggest so many great stories. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: thanks listeners. We got this one from Dawn. Thanks. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember if done was on Facebook or email, but

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Speaker 1: thank you, don regardless of how you sent it into us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that the other weird thing about trying to reach

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Speaker 1: be the first person to reach the North Pole is

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Speaker 1: how do you prove it? You know, you can't plan

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Speaker 1: a flag there, you can't. And yeah, we're gonna go

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Speaker 1: into some of that. But but part of what makes

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Speaker 1: this mystery so weird is that Frederick Cook, when he

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Speaker 1: came back, he shortly thereafter discovered that he wasn't the

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Speaker 1: only one claiming to have reached the North Pole at

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Speaker 1: the same time. Basically, there's a guide. I know, Devan's

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Speaker 1: gonna laugh because she's been laughing all day. But according

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Speaker 1: to the history books, the man to reach the North

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Speaker 1: Pole first was Rear Admiral Robert Perry. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he did. Yeah, it's I've got my opinions. But I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna hold that till we get through all of this.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about Mr Cook. Captain Cook, not Captain Cook.

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Speaker 1: Frederick Cook was born in New York in eighteen sixty five,

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Speaker 1: and he grew up. He became a surgeon. He almost

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Speaker 1: immediately started exploring. He kind of had the bug. Initially,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't really big on the idea, but his wife

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Speaker 1: and child they died in childbirth and he wanted to

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Speaker 1: get away and it was a great excuse, and so

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Speaker 1: he started going on expeditions. Initially he was serving as

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Speaker 1: the surgeon of the team that he would go with,

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Speaker 1: and then after several years started making his or getting

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Speaker 1: his own expeditions set up and then finding people to

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Speaker 1: finance it, and he'd go out in the world. And

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Speaker 1: his first expedition was with Robert Perry. It was with

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Speaker 1: Robert Perry. They were actually on better terms once upon

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Speaker 1: a time. Yes, they were um and and you know

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Speaker 1: that's the thing is it was the two Arctic expedition

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Speaker 1: is the one that he went on with Perry. But

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Speaker 1: and yeah, there was no bad blood between him. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that if I remember correctly, Cook saved

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Speaker 1: his life. He did because he broke because Perry broke

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Speaker 1: his legs so badly. Yeah, well there was that time,

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Speaker 1: and also the time that Perry was kind of lost

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Speaker 1: or around up there, and oh yeah, and he when

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Speaker 1: he went hunted him down, hutting him down and treated

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Speaker 1: him for sickness and brought him back. So he really

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Speaker 1: saved his bacon twice. Yeah. So, yeah, these guys got along.

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Speaker 1: You know, they didn't have any animosity, at least in

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Speaker 1: the beginning. Though. I will say that from everything that

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Speaker 1: I've read, Cook was a bit different than Perry and

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Speaker 1: most of the explorers who were operating at the end

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Speaker 1: of the nineteenth in the beginning of the twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: right in that nine hundred time frame. Most guys they

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Speaker 1: go to an area, they'd hire on a local crew,

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Speaker 1: and then they would tell them what to do and

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Speaker 1: ignore them. That was kind of the status quo. Cook

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Speaker 1: wasn't like that. He learned the language, he got to

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Speaker 1: know the people, and he was sometimes he's more interested

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Speaker 1: in the locals, or as much interested in the locals

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Speaker 1: as what he was there to find, which like being

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Speaker 1: a good guy or whatever. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I think Cook actually wasn't a decent guy despite all

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Speaker 1: the bad things have been said about him. I would

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Speaker 1: agree with that absolutely. The first record that Cook wanted

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Speaker 1: to set or tried to set, was in nineteen o

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Speaker 1: six when he tried to be and said that he

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Speaker 1: successfully was the first man to climb to the peak

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Speaker 1: of Mount McKinley. You might or you might not be

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Speaker 1: familiar with the name McKinley because today, officially the name

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Speaker 1: is not McKinley. I believe it's Denali. Isn't but the

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Speaker 1: traditional indigenous name for it, Yes, but most most folks

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Speaker 1: in the would know it as McKinley. And we're going

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Speaker 1: to keep using that name because anytime you do the reading,

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Speaker 1: it's always referred to that. So just to keep it

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Speaker 1: because it was it was at the time. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: reason that he wanted to climb it is if you

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Speaker 1: don't know McKinley, it's in the basically the middle of Alaska.

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Speaker 1: It's in the is it the Denali Range? Yeah, aston

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Speaker 1: it's like a national park. Yeah, but it's like and

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Speaker 1: it's it's a huge mountain. It's absolutely huge. It is here.

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Speaker 1: Let me grab the number eighteen thousand feet from base

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Speaker 1: to peak and The peak itself is just over twenty

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Speaker 1: feet above sea level, so it's really freaking high up

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Speaker 1: there mountain, and a lot of people had tried to

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Speaker 1: to make it to the peak, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people would climb the lower reaches of it and then stop.

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Speaker 1: I believe I think most people would go to what's

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Speaker 1: called the gateway. That was the farthest they would go.

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Speaker 1: But what happens. Cook says I'm going to climb this.

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Speaker 1: He takes his party, they get most of the way up,

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Speaker 1: then he takes one other man with him and he

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Speaker 1: climbs to what he says is the top, takes pictures,

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Speaker 1: comes back and says I made it to the top,

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Speaker 1: and everybody would okay, cool, great, okay, well congrats, we'll

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Speaker 1: put your name in this little book we have right

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Speaker 1: here of people who did things first. Yeah, but there

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Speaker 1: was obviously some dispute about that later right there. That

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Speaker 1: will Yeah, we're talking about this now because it does

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Speaker 1: come up later. Oh and because this is going to

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Speaker 1: be important. Remember I said he took one person with

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Speaker 1: him to the top of McKinley. That guy's name is

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Speaker 1: Ed Barill, So remember that name because it will come

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Speaker 1: up in a bit so the climb on McKinley was

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Speaker 1: in nineteen o six. Did he plant a flag or

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Speaker 1: anything like that when he went up there? He went

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Speaker 1: up there. I've seen a photo that is him holding

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Speaker 1: a flag, but he's on the tippy top peaky bit,

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Speaker 1: you know, like there's not a whole lot at the

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Speaker 1: actual peak top. So I don't know that he planted

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Speaker 1: the flag. There's a picture of him holding it, but

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Speaker 1: I don't. I never saw anything that said he specifically

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Speaker 1: planted it, but he did that nineteen o six. Then

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Speaker 1: he went home and he began planning his next Arctic expedition,

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Speaker 1: and the nine seven he went to Greenland, and while

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Speaker 1: he was in Greenland he then announced that what he

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Speaker 1: was gonna do was try to reach the North Pole.

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Speaker 1: And I think he made the announcement. I want to

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Speaker 1: say it was in August of seven. He couldn't actually leave,

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Speaker 1: I believe until February because that was when, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had to, So the timing of it was very

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Speaker 1: very specific. The thing that you need to know about

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Speaker 1: where he left is he left from a place and

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Speaker 1: I hope I get this right. A Noah talk, I believe,

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Speaker 1: is how you pronounced the name of the village. It's

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Speaker 1: an Inuit village in Greenland. It's on the northwest tip

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Speaker 1: of Greenland, so it's really pretty far up there. Okay. Well,

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Speaker 1: the trip from that village to the actual where they

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Speaker 1: say the North Pole is going to be is seven

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Speaker 1: hundred miles. So it's a seven hundred mile overland journey

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Speaker 1: in ice and snow and basically terrible conditions. Is what

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Speaker 1: he's gonna do, Glad. I think get out For the

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Speaker 1: first part of it. I think there was still like

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Speaker 1: caribou or things like that were wandering around them. There

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Speaker 1: there were animals around and out on the so you

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Speaker 1: could actually they were actually able to hunt. Yes they were,

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Speaker 1: They weren't for part of the beginning, and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: as if he took for the final bit of his

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Speaker 1: race to the North Pole. He took two local Inuit

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Speaker 1: with him, but he didn't just start out with those

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Speaker 1: two guys. I think he left, if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: he left as part of a bigger party, and then

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Speaker 1: he and that party split ways. They were going to

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Speaker 1: do something else, and then he made his run for

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Speaker 1: the North Pole. The trip wasn't expected to take but

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Speaker 1: a month or two. Everybody figured Cook was gone. When

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Speaker 1: a year had gone by, they figured that everybody had died.

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Speaker 1: He and his companion showed back up at the village

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Speaker 1: fourteen months later, looking a little worse. Yeah, absolutely worse

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Speaker 1: from where. What happened is they made the run for

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Speaker 1: the North Pole. They got there. According to Cook, they

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Speaker 1: made it to the north Pole, and they didn't take

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Speaker 1: into consideration the movement of the ice flows. They didn't

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Speaker 1: think that, I guess that they were gonna be a problem,

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Speaker 1: but they totally were. They ended up hitting open water.

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Speaker 1: They had to make all these detours, and they ended

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Speaker 1: up south west of where they wanted to be by

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Speaker 1: two or three hundred miles. Yeah, I think they were.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't expecting the ice to move eastward and wind

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Speaker 1: up moving westwards. And yes, that's yeah, it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly. It went the opposite direction. So he's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll just keep going straight south and it will always

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Speaker 1: be okay. But everything's moving under your feet. That doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: Here is the I guess the data bits that the

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Speaker 1: data points it will use here for his actual trip

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Speaker 1: from when they split off of that larger party, they traveled,

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Speaker 1: according to Cook, three hundred and sixty miles, and they

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Speaker 1: did that in twenty four days. That comes out to

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Speaker 1: an average of about fifteen miles a day, which is

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty good space in the Arctic when you consider

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Speaker 1: it's not smooth ice, it's gonna be ice floes that

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Speaker 1: are gonna heave, it's craggy, it's nasty. I went, you know,

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Speaker 1: I decided I'd go ahead and take a look and

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Speaker 1: pull a Joe. I'd go on Google Earth and Google

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Speaker 1: Maps and take a look at the North Pole. Well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out you can't because there's nothing there. There's

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Speaker 1: no streets. And here's the problem. Unlike the South Pole,

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Speaker 1: there is no land mass at the North Pole, so

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Speaker 1: it's not a actual fixable point. You can't, as you said,

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Speaker 1: with the top of the mountain, plant the flag. You can,

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Speaker 1: but it's not gonna stay in the same thing that's

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Speaker 1: to move off. Very very supposedly planted a flag. He know,

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Speaker 1: well he did, and he didn't. He planted ceremonially a

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Speaker 1: flag and then pulled it down, left a bit of

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Speaker 1: it in a tube and a crevasse. But he didn't

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Speaker 1: actually even bother to try to leave the flag there,

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Speaker 1: because that just wasn't going to do any good. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. But the point is it's constantly It's

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Speaker 1: like it's a moving target. As I said, though you know,

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Speaker 1: of course they missed the mark when they were coming home.

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Speaker 1: I found the number here. It was four hundred miles

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Speaker 1: because they ended up living in a cave on what

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Speaker 1: is known as Devon Island. So it's your Islandah, not

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Speaker 1: according to the Internet. That's true. App it's Steve and

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Speaker 1: Joe Islands anywhere nearby, No, there isn't. But they ended

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Speaker 1: up living in a cave. They barely survived off of

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Speaker 1: local animals that I mean they were killing. They were

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Speaker 1: hunting when they ran out of Ammo. They were hunting

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Speaker 1: with spears, which is pretty hardcore with used me in

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Speaker 1: the Arctic. Yeah, they managed to get back to the village.

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Speaker 1: They arrived in the spring of nineteen o nine, So

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Speaker 1: they left February of oh eight and arrived back fourteen

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Speaker 1: months later in oh nine. So that's a heck of

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Speaker 1: a long trip, Yeah, it is. Cook would eventually make

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Speaker 1: the a initial announcement that he had made it to

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Speaker 1: the North Pole. That would be uh, the date that

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Speaker 1: he said he got there would be the twenty second

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Speaker 1: of April nineteen o eight, which means that you know,

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Speaker 1: he made it there in about two months for when

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Speaker 1: he initially left, which is pretty good time. Mad I

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Speaker 1: think Joe was that said, they were looking a little

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Speaker 1: worse for wear, for living cough of just whatever animal

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Speaker 1: they could kill, hiking and freezing conditions. Yeah, I probably

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Speaker 1: at least to some degree, but they when they got

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Speaker 1: back to the village. Of course, Cook wasn't just going

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Speaker 1: to turn around and head home. He hung out for

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Speaker 1: a while to recuperate. While he was in the village,

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Speaker 1: he met a man named Harry Whitney, and they became

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Speaker 1: kind of buds. They were both English speakers. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that helped in a village where you know, it's it's Inuits,

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Speaker 1: and he could speak the local language. Both of them could,

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Speaker 1: but it's always nice to be able to use your

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Speaker 1: native tongue. I'm sure that was something to bond over.

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Speaker 1: Whitney was there on I wouldn't call it a safari,

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Speaker 1: but he was on kind of a sportsman's trip. So

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Speaker 1: he had been dropped off by a ship. It was

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Speaker 1: set to come back for him several months later, and

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Speaker 1: he was just kind of having a good time, and

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Speaker 1: he told um. He told Cook, hey, you know, I

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Speaker 1: got the ship coming. If you want, you could just

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Speaker 1: hook a ride with me and I'll take you back

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Speaker 1: down to New York and you can go home. Should

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Speaker 1: have done huh? Well, I think he probably should have

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Speaker 1: yes and no because of the way things turned out.

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Speaker 1: But but Cook didn't want to wait that long, so

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Speaker 1: instead he decided to book or plan out another overland journey.

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Speaker 1: Need to head down the coast of Greenland by sled

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Speaker 1: and go all the way to go home, or as

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Speaker 1: far south as he could till he could catch a

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Speaker 1: boat at one of the major lanes. What ended up happening, though,

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Speaker 1: is he had two guys set up to go with him.

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Speaker 1: The day before he's gonna leave, one of them got

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Speaker 1: sick and so it was just gonna be Cook and

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Speaker 1: one other Inuit. And that really put him in a

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Speaker 1: bind because he couldn't take all of his stuff with him,

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Speaker 1: because one sled down means one sleds worth of stuff

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Speaker 1: you can't pack, and you're gonna have to bring other

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Speaker 1: stuff like food. He's got to bring food. So Whitney,

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Speaker 1: being a good guy, said, hey, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: want to leave that stuff with me. When my ship

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Speaker 1: gets here, I'll totally bring it to you. No big deal.

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Speaker 1: So he left all the heavy stuff that he didn't need,

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Speaker 1: so his navigational tools, like a sex stant, all of

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Speaker 1: his records except for his own personal diary or his journal.

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Speaker 1: I guess it wouldn't be a diary. His journal was

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Speaker 1: his journal. They call it his journal. It's manly if

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Speaker 1: it's a journal. You know, just because he had stars

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Speaker 1: and it was pink doesn't count it. That dear diary

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Speaker 1: at every jury. Doesn't mean it was a diary. But

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Speaker 1: he left all that stuff with him because it was

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Speaker 1: heavy and he didn't he didn't need any navigational equipment

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Speaker 1: because he was just heading down the coastline. It's pretty

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Speaker 1: easy to follow the coastline. So he goes ahead, he

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Speaker 1: heads south. He eventually gets home. He makes the announcement

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Speaker 1: that he had done it and great. On the first September,

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Speaker 1: the world learns that Frederick Cook was the first man

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Speaker 1: to make it to the North Pole. He didn't just

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Speaker 1: tweet it out. He didn't tweet it out. He didn't

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Speaker 1: have service there. Yeah, way up there. Can't just do

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Speaker 1: that and t'll cover you up there. No, I've never

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Speaker 1: tested it. It'll cover me in my house. That's where

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Speaker 1: I'm going to leave cook story for the moment. But

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Cook, we are, But there's another, a

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Speaker 1: big player, and we need to switch gears. And we've

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Speaker 1: talked about him a little bit already, and that's Robert Perry. Perry,

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Speaker 1: as we had talked about before, he had made a

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Speaker 1: bunch of Arctic expeditions. You know, he'd gone with Cook,

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Speaker 1: or Cook had been with him a couple of times.

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Speaker 1: Perry had made if I remember the number, it's something

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Speaker 1: like eight or nine attempts to get to the North Pole. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then that eight or nine failed attempts before his

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Speaker 1: last attempt, which he will learn he says was successful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that the reason Cook did stopped going along with

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Speaker 1: him in these expeditions. Did you hear about that? He? Uh,

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Speaker 1: he wanted to sign up. But then Perry put down

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Speaker 1: the requirement that nobody was allowed to write their memoirs

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Speaker 1: at the expedition before he published his Yes, which is

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Speaker 1: a financial reason, because of course everybody sold their story.

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Speaker 1: So that means that, oh, great, I'll pay you whatever

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Speaker 1: I pay you, but you can't make any actual bonus money.

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Speaker 1: Until it's you know, your story is worthless pretty much.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things I think Cook was writing

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Speaker 1: more about things like the locals and that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: which wasn't even gonna step on on Perry's toes, but

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Speaker 1: that you're right, that is the reason that they they

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Speaker 1: did part ways. On the first of March nineteen o nine,

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Speaker 1: Perry left for the North Pole. He he went ahead,

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Speaker 1: he was already in the Arctic. He says, I'm gonna go.

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Speaker 1: He gets his big party together, and he and this

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Speaker 1: large party that he has, they had two hundred eighty

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Speaker 1: miles north heading towards the North Pole. And they didn't

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Speaker 1: leave from Greenland. They left from a different location that

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Speaker 1: actually longitudely put them closer to the North Pole. But

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Speaker 1: he was still kind of in that same region because

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Speaker 1: that evidently is where you start from the Arctic Circle. Yes. Yes.

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Speaker 1: On the first of April of nineteen o nine, Perry

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Speaker 1: split off from the main big group that he had

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Speaker 1: with him. He took five other guys with him and

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Speaker 1: they then would make the final dash for the North Pole.

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Speaker 1: They did that in six days. This was a year

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Speaker 1: after Cook that he had, right, this is when Cook

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Speaker 1: is still presumed missing. So, yeah, I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure you know. So this it is weird when

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Speaker 1: you read it because yeah, technically Cook found it a

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Speaker 1: year prior the before Perry ever got there. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he's missing. So Cook, you know, Perry's like, well,

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Speaker 1: nobody's got it yet, I'm going for it because that

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Speaker 1: evidently was his white whale at that point, he was

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Speaker 1: everybody's white whale to do it. Um. So so he

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Speaker 1: goes with these guys and they go to what Robert

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Speaker 1: Perry says is the North Pole. He says, we've got

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Speaker 1: the North Pole. He plants his ceremonial flag. He then,

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Speaker 1: like I said, tore a strip of it, put it

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Speaker 1: in a little jar and buried in gravoss and they

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Speaker 1: beat feet back out of the circle. And when he

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Speaker 1: got back to the party, then they go back to

347
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Speaker 1: their launch point. Everything's hunky dory, um, except that at

348
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Speaker 1: that point he kind of just starts a lolligag around

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Speaker 1: the areas. You know, they're steaming from place to place,

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Speaker 1: they're going on a little hunting trips. They're just kind

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Speaker 1: of having a good old time. He's in no hurry

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Speaker 1: to get back to the civilized world. And announced that

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Speaker 1: he made it to the North Pole. I would too,

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Speaker 1: but maybe it was I'm basking in the fact that

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Speaker 1: I finally did it, I finally achieved what I'm after

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Speaker 1: all this time. I mean, I'm sorry, did you just

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Speaker 1: did you say earlier that he said they were at

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Speaker 1: the North Pole? Can you clarify that? Yeah, Perry is

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Speaker 1: was the only one of the six because he had

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Speaker 1: the five other men with him who had the ability

361
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Speaker 1: to navigate, that could use a sextant right right now,

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Speaker 1: And and you got to remember is that and this

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Speaker 1: is I'm Joe might have to help me out on

364
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Speaker 1: this how you would navigate. But you know, you use

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Speaker 1: a sextant to find to fixed points and figure out

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Speaker 1: the distance between them, and as they change, you use

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Speaker 1: that figure out your longitude. Is that correct, Joe? Um?

368
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Speaker 1: I think that's how it works. Okay, I don't. I

369
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Speaker 1: have I don't use the sex and I don't either.

370
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Speaker 1: But the point is is that you use it to

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Speaker 1: fix on this point. And so he would have to

372
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Speaker 1: take readings and when nothing is north of you, everything

373
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Speaker 1: is south, that means youre at the North Pole. But

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Speaker 1: he's the only one who could do it, so he's

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Speaker 1: the one doing all of the readings. So he's the

376
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Speaker 1: one that has done all of that. I'll call it

377
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Speaker 1: the hard math. Figure it out, isn't it? Recall something

378
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Speaker 1: in the story around that one of his assistants was

379
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Speaker 1: it was a black guy remember his name now, And

380
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Speaker 1: they're just at this place and one day this this

381
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Speaker 1: this assistant says, you know, this place has kind of

382
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Speaker 1: a north Pole feeling to it, don't you think admiral

383
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Speaker 1: something like? And he says, and he says, basically, yeah,

384
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Speaker 1: I think you're I think you're out of something there,

385
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Speaker 1: and he pulls out the flag. Yeah that that is

386
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Speaker 1: that what that guy says, Yeah, you're absolutely right. Um,

387
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: that's not the version I know that you will read

388
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Speaker 1: from Perry himself. He's not gonna put it that way. Well,

389
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Speaker 1: I think in retrospect, if I were either one of

390
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Speaker 1: these guys, cook Er Perry, I would have made sure

391
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Speaker 1: I had several people in my party and that every

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Speaker 1: single one of them knew how to navigate. Actually, you know,

393
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Speaker 1: the funny point is what we're getting into here is

394
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Speaker 1: that if you haven't already figured it out from what

395
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 1: we're leading up to, there becomes dual claim for being

396
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Speaker 1: the first person to go to the North Pole, between

397
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 1: Perry and Cook, the guy who ended up being the

398
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 1: first man to reach the South Pole because of every

399
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Speaker 1: and I think he did it in nineteen eleven, but

400
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: everything that went on between these two, which it turns

401
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: into a giant public battle, this guy made sure to

402
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: double triple check all kinds of things and leave all

403
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Speaker 1: kinds of signs and all kinds of markers, like he

404
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: dotted every T or he lost every T and dotted

405
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: every eye that backwards that was Was that Amondson or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

406
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 1: that was his first name, And I don't I'm not

407
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: positive on the pronunciation. I listened to it a couple

408
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: of times and I'm still not sure. But the point

409
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: is that's why he went to such extremes. Smart movies.

410
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 1: So Perry finally makes it to Greenland. He gets to Greenland,

411
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Speaker 1: and when he gets there, he starts hearing rumors that

412
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Speaker 1: Cook is Clay is back, the Cook wasn't dead, and

413
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Speaker 1: then he's back and that hey, he's also claiming that

414
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: he made it to the North Pole the year before

415
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: you did. And he's like, wait a minute, that's not possible.

416
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Speaker 1: And he ends up getting to the same village where

417
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 1: where Whitney and Cook where it had been. And of

418
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: course Whitney is still there because he's just having his

419
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: his little sportsman vacation. And Perry talks to him and says, well,

420
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Speaker 1: what do you know about this Cook and Whitne? He

421
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: had talked and Cook had told him, he said, listen,

422
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Speaker 1: don't tell anybody until I've made my official announcement. Don't

423
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: tell anybody, and so he plays dumb. He's like, well,

424
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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, he he said he went

425
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Speaker 1: north and had some expedition, but I'm not really sure.

426
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: Perry then goes on and tracks down the two Inuit

427
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: that went with Cook, and he he interviews them and

428
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: he basically interrogates them, and he takes away from it

429
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: and he will later learn he makes all these statements

430
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 1: about how they disagreed with what what Cook is claiming.

431
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: But what you need to know is that natives of

432
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: the area at that time, they didn't have an understanding

433
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: of latitude and longitude. They knew distances in days. Took

434
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: me a day to get there, so we walked north

435
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 1: for X number of days. That's all they knew. And

436
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: it was Perry Perry didn't speak the language. He didn't

437
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: speak the language. So there, you know, when he he's

438
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: shown them maps and they're just kind of drawing on it. Whitney,

439
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: who does know the language, talks to them after the fact,

440
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: and he has he went on record and said they

441
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: they said they didn't know what the angry white man

442
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: was asking them, and what the pieces of paper that

443
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: he kept pointing at meant. They didn't They just they

444
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: didn't understand. But Perry didn't care um. So once he

445
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: once he figures that out, well dead lights a fire

446
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: underneath him to get back to back to the main

447
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: land and uh and stop all this. Here's the other

448
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: thing that really really really bites cook in the rear,

449
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: and that is the fact that Whitney, remember he had

450
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: a ship charter to to come back and pick him up.

451
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: His ship never showed up, so that meant he'd have

452
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: to wait there at the tip of Greenland for another

453
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: six months before another ship would come to take him home.

454
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: And he really wasn't keen on that idea. Well, being

455
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: such a nice guy, Perry says, hey, we'll give you

456
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: a ride home, no big deal, except when he brings

457
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: all of his stuff down to the ship to load

458
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: it up. Harry specifically stops him and says, hey, is

459
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: any of that stuff Cooks And he has to admit, well, yeah,

460
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: there's these trunks here that belonged to him, and he says,

461
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: I don't want any of that on my ship. Total

462
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: jerk move, uh And I actually I do. Some of

463
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: the things that go on in this story make me

464
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,959
Speaker 1: think that he did that very intentionally, knowing that it

465
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,239
Speaker 1: was gonna screw Cook over. So poor Whitney, what's he doing?

466
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: He goes over to some rocks, he digs a big

467
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: hole and he buries them, so at least they're sort

468
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: of secure and Cook come back for him. I mean,

469
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 1: has anybody actually gone out looking for these things? But

470
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: they've never shown up, which makes me feel that probably

471
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: if anybody found him after a couple of years, they

472
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: were probably destroyed any you know, I mean, they probably

473
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: they would have been buried in permour frost, which is okay,

474
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: but still their their trunks, not like they're totally waterproof.

475
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: There is going to be some moisture and that's going

476
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: to just destroy paperworking tools in no time flat. But

477
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: so we move forward. Perry now gets to work on

478
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: destroying Cook's claim. He meets up with some of his supporters.

479
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: What what are these guys called? They are the Yes

480
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: the Periarctic Club, which is a bunch of well off

481
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: dudes who's who financially back his expeditions, and they get

482
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: together and they start doing some kind of devious stuff.

483
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: First off, what Perry does is he tells everybody, of

484
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: course that hey, I got there, and Cook is totally

485
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: full of it. He communicates that a week after Cook

486
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: has said he got there, Perry's information comes through and says, hey, hey,

487
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: I totally got there and be Cook's a liar and

488
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: I've got the evidence to prove it. Then when he

489
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: gets back to the world, everybody says, well, great, let's

490
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: see your your documents, and he says, no, I will

491
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: go ahead and put out my full I will give

492
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: you my fully authorized version as soon as Cook gives

493
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: you his. A bit of a game of I'll show

494
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: you mine if you show me yours, knowing full well

495
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: that Cook can't because he made made Whitney bury it

496
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: all in the Arctic um. And I gotta say I

497
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: think that between this two, not to give it away

498
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: or anything, I think Cook behaved with a lot more class,

499
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: and this he did. Cook ended up for the rest

500
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: of his life getting the short stick. He absolutely got

501
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: the short stick, though in a way it seems to

502
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: have given him peace. But he really got hosed a

503
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: bunch after this. Oh that was where I was headed though,

504
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: was the periarctic? What the McCall it? What were they?

505
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: The club? Thank you? Yeah, his his fan club. They did.

506
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: What was so common at that time and so despicable

507
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: is if you remember we talked about how Cook had

508
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: been the first to go all the way to the

509
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: top of Mount McKinley, and he took the other gentleman,

510
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: Berrill with him. Well, for years Brill had been going

511
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: around publicly saying we made it the top, it's so awesome,

512
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: telling everybody about it, until suddenly on the fourth of

513
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: October nine nine and AffA David from him that his

514
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: sign comes out saying that they faked the whole thing

515
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: and it's a total lie. What would make somebody do that.

516
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: It's somewhere between five and ten thousand dollars at the time,

517
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: so they totally blatantly paid him off. They made no

518
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: claim that they hadn't done it, or Burrill never ever

519
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: even pretended that he hadn't been paid off. Uh that's

520
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: it's equivalent to like a hundred and five grand US today,

521
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: So that's a huge chunk of change. I could see

522
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: why he would turn on him for the money. I mean,

523
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: it's kind of despicable, what I understand. But then he

524
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: bye bye, pretty much acknowledging that he was bribed to

525
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: sign that after David he did. Yeah, then you know,

526
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't that provide a little ammunation to Cook. It

527
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: should have, Yeah, it should have. And I never I

528
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: never could get a good clear understanding of what why

529
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: Cook went about doing things the way he did. He

530
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: had his journal and so he could provide that, and

531
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: in the beginning the public believed him, but because of

532
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: all the underhanded moves that he was pulling, they started

533
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: not believing him. And I think he just he realized

534
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: he was defeated and he stopped fighting. I think that's

535
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: probably what happened. For the most, probably spent a lot

536
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: of time, like you know, on McKinley thing, Probably spent

537
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: a lot of time just really really wishing that he

538
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: had buried something at the top of the mountain. Yeah. Probably. Yeah, Well,

539
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: after after that affidavit shows up that of course, this

540
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: is where Perry comes out with his account of what

541
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: cooks Inuits Inuit h what would they wouldn't be companions?

542
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: I was, I couldn't think of the right word from

543
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: his companions quote unquote said about him and what the

544
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: route that they took um. I won't go into detail,

545
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: but basically they, according to him, sketched out this completely

546
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: different route, meaning that Cook just took him kind of

547
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: in a circle and in a completely the wrong direction intentionally.

548
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 1: It's what this is making it out to be. Did

549
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: Whitney ever show his head again? No? No, oh not really.

550
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: I mean Whitney came out and said, hey, I had

551
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: to do this. He publicly said I had to do this.

552
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: This is what Perry made me do. Stuff behind, leaving

553
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: the stuff behind. And he you know, he said that

554
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: Cook had told him that he had made it to

555
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: the North Pole. But it's second hand information. Yeah, you

556
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: don't know, but that's but but he had overheard the

557
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: conversation when Perry was interrogating the two Anuits, right, correct?

558
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: And so did he ever show up and say, hey,

559
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: no that the Innuits did not say this to Perry.

560
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: He's lying we we know that there are written accounts

561
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: of it. I I get, I don't. I don't know

562
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: the exact interaction of did he show up as some

563
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: legal proceeding or something, because it really was only one

564
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: legal proceeding and by that time that happened, it was

565
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: way too late and so it may have been wasted breath.

566
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: Or maybe he was on SARI again again. Yeah, probably,

567
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: I think probably. The nail that really kind of sealed

568
00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: the coffin for Cook, though, was the National Geographic Society,

569
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: because they had they were a big backer of Perry.

570
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,959
Speaker 1: They loved him, they were, you know, totally supported him,

571
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: always published his stuff. He was he drew in people

572
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: for them. They went ahead and they immediately said that

573
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: Perry was right and Cook was wrong. And then later

574
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: on they set up a committee to go ahead and

575
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: investigate the whole thing, which, of course, because there was

576
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: no papers from Cook, that was easy. They went ahead

577
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: and checked out Perry's story. They didn't matter of three days,

578
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: that's all it took for them to go ahead and

579
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: figure ferry story. This committee was like mostly his friends. Yes,

580
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: two of the people he knew extremely well, and one

581
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: of them said that I think he came out and

582
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: said that he was the skeptic. He was a total skeptic.

583
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: But I get the feeling. He also knew Perry as

584
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: well personally. They all knew him personally, so it was

585
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: totally inside job. And that really was the end of it.

586
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: And for years and years and years, everybody learned that

587
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: Robert Perry went ahead and made it to the North Pole,

588
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: and he was the first one. And nobody really knows

589
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: who Cook is. He's not really in any of the

590
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: history books. He's just one little footnote because of this

591
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: schmear campaign, the campaign absolute mud flinging contest. Yeah, was

592
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: not a classic guy. But that is That is the

593
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: end of our story, which means we are now into

594
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: the theory section. So this is really it's it's three

595
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: simple theories. There's the only three headings here, and the

596
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: first one is, of course that Cook made it there

597
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: before Perry. We don't have any documents to back this up,

598
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: but he was one of the first or he was

599
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: the first person to ever describe the frozen polar ce

600
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: uh you know, as being in continuous motion um and

601
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: at eighty eight degrees north. The fact that it was

602
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: he basically encountered a giant, flat topped, as he described it,

603
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: ice island that was higher and thicker than the sea

604
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: ice surround it. Yeah, and that was something that was

605
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: backed up by later explorers into the area. They found

606
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, Perry never ever that I know of,

607
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: makes any mention of that. Of course, if you want

608
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: a different route, he could have missed it. And absolutely true.

609
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: Perry or Cook excused me, also seemed to be pretty

610
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: good at his navigation. I mean, he knew how to

611
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: use the sex, and he had been guiding himself for

612
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: a while on these kind of Arctic things or expeditions

613
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: things expeditions. I don't know why I said things stream

614
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: of consciousness here and he'd stopped. But overall, as you said,

615
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: he's Joe, he seemed to be a pretty honest guy,

616
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: and he didn't seem to be the kind of guy

617
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: that would just to to grab glory say that he

618
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: did something. Yeah. That's my personal impression. Yeah, And it's

619
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: my impression too, is that Cook had a much deeper

620
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: sense of honor than Harry had, and that he wouldn't

621
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: have deliberately faked a gentleman's own. There was, Yeah, there was,

622
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: I think there was some question that he was making

623
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: mistakes in his navigation, which is entirely possible, entirely, Yeah,

624
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: it is entirely possible and quite possibly probably true even

625
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: but if they were honest mistakes, so he might have

626
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: honestly thought that he was at the North Pole. Yeah,

627
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: and I gotta tell you, there's an easier way than

628
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: using a sextant. He just laying the ground looking straight up,

629
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: and when the when the north Star is right over

630
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: you there with the North Pole nothing to it. Not easy, Yeah,

631
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: it's easy. Yeah, yeah, dude, if only they had known that,

632
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: this whole thing would have been solved day. On my

633
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: back the north Star was directly above me. There you go,

634
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: I felt really north North Pole. Yeah yeah, Okay, we're

635
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: gonna let that go. Our next our next theory is,

636
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: of course, that Frederick Cooke faked the entire thing. The

637
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: quote unquote loss of all of his data, well that

638
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: means that we can't confirm that he really did it,

639
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: And it could be that if we had gotten his records,

640
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: we didn't figured out quite easily that he was full

641
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: of it and that he didn't know what he was doing.

642
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 1: So there is that absolute possibility I mean, you also

643
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: got to think about the fact this guy was lost

644
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: for a year in the Arctic, and when he got

645
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: back to his starting point, he could have said, you

646
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: know what, I survived, that I deserve something for going

647
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: through all that crap. I'm going to say that I

648
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: got there because I've earned it, or you know, for

649
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: all I know, we got there. Yeah, and intentionally, you know,

650
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: directly knowing that he was pretty sure that he didn't

651
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: actually doing Yeah, that's completely plausible. Um. One thing, and

652
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: again this is this my lack of understanding of the sextant.

653
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: Though I've read about it so many times, it's still

654
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: just doesn't sink in. One of the things that his

655
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: detractors will point out is the fact that trying to

656
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: use a sextant at that time of the year is

657
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: gonna be not exactly reliable because you a lot of

658
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: times you use the sun as a reference point, but

659
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: the sun was so low in the horizon all the

660
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: time that it's basically a useless point to to fix two.

661
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: But the UH and I have no idea how often

662
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: they had clear days. You could also use stars. That's

663
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: a good point. And and I haven't seen any data.

664
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: I mean none of us have actually that says was

665
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: it cloudy or was it clear when they were making

666
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: that final drive. If it was clear, it totally makes sense.

667
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: But this information gives me the impression that it wasn't

668
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: clear days and so he was fixing his position based

669
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: on the sun. Yeah, it would be h it would

670
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: be hard if it was cloudy and the sun the horizon. Well, yeah, yeah,

671
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: it's not. You know, I mean you've we've all seen

672
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: the sun go down and it's on the horizon and

673
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's not exactly a fix. It's not

674
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: because of the atmosphere. It's not going to look or

675
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: be where it actually is. It's going to have the

676
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: distortion issue. Final theory, they both either intentionally or not

677
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: faked it. Both Perry and Cook didn't get to the

678
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 1: North Pole, and both of them probably knew it. That's

679
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 1: that's what this theory is getting at. Okay, well, we've

680
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: we've already talked about Cook, So I think probably we

681
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: need to talk about the second half of this, which

682
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: is Perry turns out there's problems with the writings that

683
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: he left behind his data from the trip. Now, if

684
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: you remember I said that he wouldn't release anything, or

685
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: hardly anything, just very basic details. Eventually that his papers

686
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: would get released about a decade and a half ago,

687
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: that's how long they were under wraps before almost a

688
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: hundred years now. The National Geographic Society had them and

689
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: they had looked at them, but they didn't release them.

690
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until about ten or fifteen years ago

691
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: that they finally were put out and people could really

692
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: really analyze them. And well, it turns out that his

693
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: numbers didn't exactly work. People have tried to trace the

694
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: route based on what he had and it doesn't work.

695
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: So he was probably about a hundred miles south of

696
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: the North Pole. Yeah, and that's interesting that they wouldn't

697
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: release him. But he had a lot of buddies in

698
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: the NGS. Didn't he he did. He did, That's why

699
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: they didn't release him. He is the other really hinky thing.

700
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: And I don't know why this this flu but we

701
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: in the beginning, Devon was laughing at Rear Admiral because

702
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: that was the status that was bestowed upon him by

703
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: the U S House of Representatives. They gave him the title.

704
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: There was well, there was an act that was passed

705
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: through that and then Congress that gave an act how

706
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: do you become a rear admiral that it's it's an

707
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: it's an honorific okay, So it's like it's it's an

708
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: honorary title. So he was never like, you know, he

709
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: never he didn't work his way up to the rank.

710
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: They gave him an honorary title. Was he ever even

711
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: in the navy. He might have, actually he might have

712
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: been at one point. But the point is he was

713
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: given this title. But one of the things that had

714
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: to happen first was he had to go and and

715
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: talk to a Naval Affairs subcommittee, and he had to

716
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: give them some of his stuff to look at, and

717
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: he gave them his journal that he said he had

718
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: used on his entire trip to the North Pole. Here's

719
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: the thing. When these guys are are up in the

720
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: North Pole, it's not like they're packing, you know, kale

721
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: and carrots and all these great veggies to eat. They're

722
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: eating what they can. And one of the things that

723
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: Arctic explorers in the day took with them is what

724
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: is called pemmican. Kind of looks gross. It's a greasy

725
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: mix of fat and meat all pressed together. It's kind

726
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: of like jerky like you see it kind of in

727
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 1: a ball sometimes a sort of flat cakes hockey. Yeah,

728
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: if you've ever picked up greasy meats and eating them

729
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: by hand, you know how much of that stuff gets

730
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 1: on your fingers. Now, then combine that with the fact

731
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: that they're in the Arctic, it's not like they can

732
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: wash their hands off and their stuff off. That the

733
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: fingerprints of that stuff should be on every thing. His

734
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: journal was pristine, to the point that the subcommittee asked

735
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: him about it, and he stood by the fact of Nope,

736
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: that's it. That's the one I used. It totally is

737
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: and they just kind of shined it on and let

738
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: it go through. So this is they actually swore because

739
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you were totally b essay,

740
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: I think what I would have said is, you know

741
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: it was it was such a disgusting mess that I

742
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: just copied the whole thing over to it to a

743
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: new book. Yeah, that's what's I would have told him. Yeah,

744
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: I mean that, and nobody probably would have said anything

745
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: if he had said, listen, the other one is kind

746
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: of going. You know, it's going a little off now

747
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: because all that Greece. Yeah, it's a little rancid, so

748
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: I had to transfer it. They probably wouldn't have worried

749
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, but the um this was way back

750
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: in the day though, right, and then that and did

751
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: that book? Did that journal go back to the National

752
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 1: Geographic Society or did Perry keep it? I'm not positive

753
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: Perry's papers are in more than one place, and I

754
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: don't know who holds that journal. Sure somebody somewhere has

755
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: got probably. There's also some issues with the speed that

756
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: Perry said he traveled. Basically, he kind of set some

757
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: land records. He really did. He set some land records

758
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: so that he and his five companions, what is it

759
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: they they traveled each day they traveled twenty five miles,

760
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: twenty miles, twenty miles miles, and then forty miles final day.

761
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: They traveled forty miles in that final day to make

762
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: their destination. That's twenty six miles a day in the

763
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: Arctic on foot bit fast, right, Oh yeah, yeah, Cook

764
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: was averaging fifty miles, which is still pretty good. But yeah,

765
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: you want to you want to hear my favorite detractor

766
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: of of Perry. This is my absolute face favorite, and

767
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: that is there is a man by the name of

768
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: Marshall B. Gardner, and he wrote a book called A

769
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: Journey to the Earth's Interior, which is all a hollow

770
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: Earth book, all about the fact that the Earth is

771
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: actually hollow, and he says that there is no way

772
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: that either man actually made it to the North Pole,

773
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: because as they went north, they would have discovered that

774
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: the temperature was rising, the ice was melting, and it

775
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: was gonna be open sea because the sun's beams are

776
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: all focused at the North Pole. And of course if

777
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: they had gotten on a boat, they would have gone

778
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 1: to the North Pole and discovered the entry to the

779
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: hollow Earth and then been able to explore that. So

780
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: that obviously is why neither man actually made it to

781
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: the North Pole. Of course that makes sense. I don't

782
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: understand fast well, but uh so, I guess that's one

783
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: of the reasons. Then if the National Geographics Society eventually

784
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: went back and looked at his and declared that he

785
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: didn't actually make it, improve it yeah, yeah, it's yeah.

786
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: They they went from totally to totally did it you

787
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: made it to the North Pole? Claim is unproven. Yeah. Now,

788
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 1: of course I still left Cook's claim as disproven because

789
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: he couldn't he didn't have anything, so they said, well,

790
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: you're totally making it up. Everything support this claim, so

791
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: we're just going to throw it out. If I was

792
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: going to believe one of them, I would believe Cook. Yeah. Well,

793
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: you know. And the thing is, here's the great thing

794
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: about Cook his claim to Mount McKinley. Everybody was saying

795
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: that his pictures were of different areas of the mountain,

796
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: not pass what is called the Gateway, which is the

797
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: final ascent. People have started looking at his writing and

798
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: there was actually a Russian team that followed his route

799
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: based on his writing, and it turns out they made

800
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: it to the peak. Yeah, there's there was. People have

801
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 1: actually duplicated his route. It's a completely unconventional or unstandard

802
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: way to go to the top, and that's why most

803
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: people seem to have thrown it out. But it appears

804
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: that he was telling the truth on that, which is

805
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: why I'm inclined to believe he probably, at least to

806
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: the best of his knowledge, was telling the truth about

807
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: getting to the North Pole too. Yeah. So I mean, personally, yeah,

808
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: I I think he did it, you know, super close. Anyway,

809
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: I don't think I think officially the first man to

810
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: make it to the North Pole. It didn't happen until

811
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 1: it's a guy on skis, and I want to say

812
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: it was in the nineteen eighties that he did it,

813
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: and he was supported the whole way by air drops

814
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: of supplies. That's the only way that this guy managed

815
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: to do it. Um And of course the air drops

816
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: helped figure out if he's really But you know, so

817
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: it's it wasn't an easy thing to get to. No,

818
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: it's not. That's nothing. It's something I probably wouldn't even

819
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: try to get to. But yeah, I mean a lot

820
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: of these guys like that, they have you know, they

821
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: have some pretty rough times. Like it was months ago

822
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: that I read Endurance by F. A. Worsley, who was, oh, yeah,

823
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: that's about about Ernest Shackleton and his try his his

824
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: attempt to get to the South Pole. And that's an

825
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: amazing story. I'd highly recommend that story, by the way.

826
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: And I know we're talking to the other end of

827
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: the earth, but it's kind of a similar thing. And

828
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: we're talking sleds and dogs and ships crushed in the

829
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: ice and and you know, some tales of of incredible

830
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: survival and these guys wants you an amazing set of adventures. Well,

831
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: I mean, over the years, there's countless people have died

832
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: trying to get to those places. So it's it is,

833
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: it's like it's the what I called it earlier. It's

834
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: kind of the white whale is I'm going to be

835
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: the one who gets it. And that could be why

836
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: some of these guys say, to hell with it, I'm

837
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: gonna lie, because I've tried so hard I deserve it. Yeah.

838
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: I still think that Cook probably thought he got there,

839
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: and I think Perry knew well as a lying jerk,

840
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: that he didn't get there, but couldn't. I couldn't admit

841
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: that he had failed yet again, and so went on

842
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: that that nasty little smear campaign that he launched. Yeah.

843
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: And then and by the way, when he when he

844
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: went public with this whole thing about the UNU, he said,

845
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: they just want put one out a few miles and

846
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: then just sort of circled around and came back. Well,

847
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: that's obviously a lie. They didn't circle around, but they

848
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: went a totally wrong way. Yeah, but they didn't. Yeah,

849
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: but you know, if they had just like sort of

850
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: gone out there intending to fake it, and you know,

851
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: and then decided to ask girl let's go back home. Well,

852
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: why were they gone for fourteen months? Got lost? Yeah,

853
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: I guess I cut off on the ice. Yeah. Yeah,

854
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: they were never really lost. No, they knew what they

855
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,479
Speaker 1: were because this floating ice flow, and they figured it out,

856
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: and he figured out where they were. That's how he

857
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: knew how to navigate back to the village. Yeah. He uh,

858
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: you know, that was his his big mistake though he

859
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: should have taken it, should have taken a few more

860
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: people with them, and he should have made sure everybody

861
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 1: in the expedition knew how to use a secctant. Again,

862
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: that's why heading to the South Pole was so well documented,

863
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: to make sure that didn't happen. Smart move there. Yeah,

864
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: but that's all I've got. It sounds like year in

865
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: agreement with me on it, Joe. I think that's it's

866
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: quite quite likely that Perry lied. And I think it's

867
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: quite likely, well, I know he lied about some stuff. Yeah,

868
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: he was not an honorable guy. It was no, No,

869
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: it was not. I think it's quite possible that Cook

870
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: actually did make it to the North Pole or somewhere

871
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: very close to where he you know, maybe through errors

872
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: in navigation. You know, I felt that he was on

873
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: the exact spot. I think he was pretty damn close.

874
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: If he wasn't actually on the exact spot, I agree,

875
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,280
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I think Perry seems like a jerk.

876
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: I saw you starting to use the letter A and

877
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: then UM, and I think Cook, you know you really

878
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: kind of He's a sympathetic character. You wanna be on

879
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: his side? Yeah, And you know the hard part for Cook,

880
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: Remember how I told you he kind of got He

881
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 1: kind of got the short in the stick. For the

882
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: rest of his life he got I think it was

883
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: about ten years later. He he started investing in oil

884
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 1: fields and he was sending correspondence and projecting the value

885
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: of the output of his his oil field. And simple

886
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: version is that somebody challenged it and then they charged

887
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: him with mail fraud for fraudulent claims about the value

888
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: of something, and they sent him to jail for like

889
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 1: ten years, which was everybody couldn't believe what a harsh

890
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: judgment it was. The judge apparently the prosecutor thought it

891
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: was overly harsh, but the judge was, guess what a

892
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: friend to Perry. And the worst part is turns out

893
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: that part of Cook's oil field was on one of

894
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: the giant oil reserves. Yeah, he wasn't lying at all,

895
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 1: he was. He actually undercut the amount, he was shy

896
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: the production. Yeah, for this, he gets, you know, a

897
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: good long a good long stay in jail. But part

898
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: of that due to Perry. Yeah. Well, and that's that's

899
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: the thing is I almost wonder if it was a

900
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: good thing for him, because he said that being in prison,

901
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,959
Speaker 1: he was a surgeon, he was a doctor in jail,

902
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: in prison, and it was very peaceful for him and

903
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: very calming, and he could just get away from all

904
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 1: the crap that was going on because he can never

905
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: outrun it. So it might have, in a way been

906
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: the best thing that Perry could have done for him. Yeah. Yeah, Still,

907
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: the poor guy really suffered. I think. Yeah, I feel bad. Okay,

908
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: we settled that, my mistress. We totally well, at least

909
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: settled it. You want to talk about now, Um, how

910
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: about our website? Oh yeah, because we've got one of those, Yes,

911
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: we do. It's at Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Were

912
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 1: of course, this episode and all other episodes around the

913
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: website gonna have links to research on their If you're

914
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 1: not listening to us on the website, you can always

915
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: listen to us through any streaming service. We're on pretty

916
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: much every one of them. Of course we're on iTunes.

917
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: If you are on iTunes and you're listening to this

918
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: show through there, do take the time to leave us

919
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: a comment and a rating. Those do help, especially well

920
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: We've always said that it helps, but I know that

921
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 1: it helps because we've continually keep moving upwards in the

922
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: rankings and we're getting really high up there, which is awesome.

923
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: That I think based on downloads, so they based on ratings.

924
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: It's a combination. It's I don't think Apple tells you

925
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,760
Speaker 1: exactly what it is. A really complex algorithm. You wouldn't understand.

926
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I bet it would. Um Or of course

927
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 1: on Twitter, you can find us at Thinking Sideways and

928
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: we do use that. Twitter has actually been really really

929
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: busy lately, which is pretty fun. We are on Facebook.

930
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: You can find us at our Facebook page. You can

931
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: join the Facebook group, we can have some there's lots

932
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: of conversations going on there. We're getting lots of stuff

933
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 1: all the time through that total fun, So come join

934
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: us there. And if you're enjoying the podcast and you

935
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: want to hear more, you can always go ahead and

936
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: go to Patreon to support the show. Patreon dot com

937
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: slash Thinking Sideways is where we're at. You can choose

938
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: to donate however much you want per show, totally an option,

939
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 1: but that is something we have out there. Or if

940
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,760
Speaker 1: you want to do something that's just a one timer,

941
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: we've got the PayPal right there on the website. I'm

942
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: kind of hoping Bill Gates discovers our website or our

943
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: podcast and pledges a million bucks an episode. Fantastic, it's happen.

944
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 1: The final thing I gotta tell everybody is, of course,

945
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: about our email address, which is Thinking Sideways Podcast at

946
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. And go ahead and send us an email.

947
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: If you've got a story suggestion, you've got thoughts, you've

948
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 1: got comment, you're looking for more information. We're happy to

949
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: get them all and will field everything. So I think

950
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: that's everything we gotta we gotta share here, that's for sure.

951
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: You're right. All right, Well, we're gonna go ahead and

952
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: close it on out and we will talk to all

953
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: you good people next week. Bye bye, bye, guys