WEBVTT - The Prestige | Archive 0:00:21.244 --> 0:00:24.604 Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you 0:00:24.605 --> 0:00:27.605 can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in 0:00:27.685 --> 0:00:31.365 just two visits. See any standard two D movie anytime 0:00:31.725 --> 0:00:34.845 with no blackoutdates or restrictions. Sign up now on the 0:00:34.885 --> 0:00:37.284 Regal app or at the link in our description and 0:00:37.445 --> 0:00:41.685 use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off. 0:00:45.845 --> 0:00:48.284 What kind of a show you guys putting on here today? 0:00:48.405 --> 0:00:49.484 You're not interested in art? 0:00:49.685 --> 0:00:51.524 Now? No, Look, we're going to do this thing. We're 0:00:51.525 --> 0:00:52.044 going to have a. 0:00:51.965 --> 0:00:55.404 Conversation, Josh. 0:00:55.725 --> 0:00:59.685 Our review of The Odyssey is coming. Yes, it opened 0:01:00.084 --> 0:01:05.245 last weekend. You've seen it. By the time people hear this, 0:01:05.525 --> 0:01:07.685 I will have seen it, and in fact we will 0:01:07.685 --> 0:01:10.605 have recorded our review. But it will be coming to 0:01:10.645 --> 0:01:14.685 the film Spotting feed officially on Friday. We thought we 0:01:14.765 --> 0:01:18.805 would go back into the archive for this drop and 0:01:19.365 --> 0:01:23.965 look to our Nolan review. The only good thing about 0:01:24.005 --> 0:01:29.404 twenty twenty was having the opportunity to revisit every Christopher 0:01:29.405 --> 0:01:33.285 Nolan film and do the blank check thing and take 0:01:33.365 --> 0:01:37.405 each one of them in order, looking at the filmmaker's 0:01:37.765 --> 0:01:39.565 entire body of work. 0:01:40.285 --> 0:01:41.164 The Prestige is. 0:01:41.164 --> 0:01:44.725 A movie that I remember reviewing on the show. I 0:01:44.725 --> 0:01:46.444 don't know if this comes up in this review. I 0:01:46.444 --> 0:01:49.445 don't typically listen to the archive drops ahead of time. 0:01:50.765 --> 0:01:53.885 The Prestige is a film that was reviewed on the show. 0:01:54.645 --> 0:01:57.404 I was positive. I think I was very positive even 0:01:57.485 --> 0:02:01.925 on the film. But I do remember watching this film 0:02:01.965 --> 0:02:07.045 again and feeling like I had a revelatory experience with it, 0:02:07.365 --> 0:02:13.405 feeling like, oh no, the Prestige is great Nolan, this 0:02:13.485 --> 0:02:18.005 is top tier Nolan. And I thought my ranking on 0:02:18.125 --> 0:02:21.165 Letterbox would reflect that I have two Nolan rankings. I 0:02:21.205 --> 0:02:23.765 have the old one and then I have the post 0:02:24.725 --> 0:02:29.605 twenty over review, and there is there is the Prestige 0:02:30.044 --> 0:02:32.844 at number three. On the newer one. I thought, there 0:02:32.885 --> 0:02:35.445 you go. It must have jumped up so much. It 0:02:35.525 --> 0:02:37.364 turns out on the old one it was at number four, 0:02:37.565 --> 0:02:39.924 so it didn't take a huge leap. But I still 0:02:39.965 --> 0:02:44.125 think that as it happens, when you revisit films and 0:02:44.125 --> 0:02:47.125 you get to watch them again, you can still have 0:02:47.204 --> 0:02:50.405 that experience where your eyes are open to so much 0:02:50.484 --> 0:02:52.565 more that you didn't see the first time. That's the 0:02:52.685 --> 0:02:54.804 experience I feel like I had with the Prestige. 0:02:54.885 --> 0:02:58.605 So we'll see. As we we share this review, What 0:02:58.725 --> 0:03:00.765 I'm fascinated by, which is going to take us on 0:03:00.805 --> 0:03:03.685 a total detour, is that that's how you do your 0:03:04.005 --> 0:03:08.245 director ranking lists. You have separate I'm not saying this 0:03:08.285 --> 0:03:11.045 is wrong. I'm reconsidering my process. You know what, I 0:03:11.044 --> 0:03:14.005 don't think I've done it with anybody else. I think 0:03:14.005 --> 0:03:17.764 this is unique. Don't we do the overview? Probably that's right, 0:03:17.805 --> 0:03:20.725 But yeah, I usually and it gets tricky, like you 0:03:20.805 --> 0:03:23.325 might be right, because I usually do it once and 0:03:23.365 --> 0:03:26.165 then update it every time I watch one of their films, 0:03:26.924 --> 0:03:30.484 which makes no sense in the comments then, because people 0:03:30.484 --> 0:03:33.445 are yelling at you for something that is no longer 0:03:33.685 --> 0:03:38.325 necessarily reflective. But yeah, as far as Nolan goes, I 0:03:38.485 --> 0:03:42.925 do think I've always considered it top tier as well. Again, 0:03:43.165 --> 0:03:46.085 haven't listened to what we said in our review before 0:03:46.165 --> 0:03:51.405 this either. Number five for me, which I think speaks 0:03:51.405 --> 0:03:54.045 to Nolan. I'm like, how can I have the prestige 0:03:54.085 --> 0:03:56.125 only at five? And then I look at what's ahead 0:03:56.125 --> 0:03:59.165 of it, It's like, well, okay, that's how that seems. 0:03:59.245 --> 0:04:02.124 That seems about fair. But yeah, agree with you top tier. 0:04:02.165 --> 0:04:07.445 Nolan interested in a lot of the essential questions. His 0:04:07.525 --> 0:04:11.725 best movies are interested in. Yes, which is why I 0:04:11.765 --> 0:04:16.605 think it's a key Nolan film, and I'm sure we 0:04:16.685 --> 0:04:19.085 touch on a lot of that in a review. So 0:04:19.405 --> 0:04:23.045 here from May twenty twenty is that conversation about the 0:04:23.085 --> 0:04:31.245 prestige A real magician tries to invent something new, something 0:04:31.325 --> 0:04:34.005 other magicians will scratch their heads over. I suppose you 0:04:34.045 --> 0:04:37.045 have such a trick as sure there someone They're gonna 0:04:37.085 --> 0:04:37.724 remember me for. 0:04:39.245 --> 0:04:39.964 What happened. 0:04:43.005 --> 0:04:44.845 It was the greatest magic trick I've ever seen. 0:04:46.245 --> 0:04:50.005 Every great Christopher Nolan movie consists of three parts or acts. 0:04:50.445 --> 0:04:53.604 The first part is called the Pledge. The filmmaker shows 0:04:53.645 --> 0:04:56.685 you something ordinary with his fifth feature. Set in late 0:04:56.765 --> 0:05:01.005 nineteenth century London, it's two rival magicians, Hugh Jackman's sophisticated 0:05:01.045 --> 0:05:05.285 showman Robert A Jeer and Christian Bale's committed professional Alfred Borden. 0:05:05.725 --> 0:05:08.565 The filmmaker shows you these characters. Perhaps he asks you 0:05:08.605 --> 0:05:10.724 to watch them to see if they are indeed real, 0:05:11.125 --> 0:05:15.685 unaltered normal, but of course they probably aren't. The second 0:05:15.925 --> 0:05:18.844 is called the Turn. The filmmaker takes these characters and 0:05:18.885 --> 0:05:22.485 makes them part of something extraordinary. Our period piece becomes 0:05:22.525 --> 0:05:25.724 gothic science fiction, a meditation on the moral limits of 0:05:25.725 --> 0:05:29.685 science and pursuit of knowledge, the consequences of obsession. Now 0:05:29.685 --> 0:05:32.404 you're looking for the secret, but you won't find it 0:05:33.325 --> 0:05:35.725 because of course you're not really looking. You don't really 0:05:35.805 --> 0:05:38.645 want to know. You want to be fooled, but you 0:05:38.645 --> 0:05:41.925 wouldn't clap yet because one of our magicians finally winning 0:05:42.165 --> 0:05:45.765 isn't enough. Our minds have to be blown. That's why 0:05:45.885 --> 0:05:48.605 every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, 0:05:48.964 --> 0:05:52.685 the part we call the prestige. Fairly early in the film, 0:05:52.885 --> 0:05:56.085 Borden's wife, Sarah played by Rebecca Hall, reveals he's going 0:05:56.085 --> 0:05:58.165 to be a father. He shows her the trick that's 0:05:58.205 --> 0:06:00.404 going to put food on their table, a bullet catch, 0:06:00.525 --> 0:06:01.685 which he performs for her. 0:06:01.605 --> 0:06:03.124 To prove it's safe. 0:06:03.165 --> 0:06:05.645 Like any of us observing a great trick, she wants 0:06:05.645 --> 0:06:08.404 to know the secret and insists she can't comfortably allow 0:06:08.485 --> 0:06:11.205 him to do it unless she understands the mechanics of it. 0:06:11.565 --> 0:06:18.285 He relents, she replies, disappointedly, once you know it's so obvious, Josh, 0:06:18.765 --> 0:06:22.085 any rewatch of the prestige requires that you know the twist, 0:06:22.565 --> 0:06:25.924 and equipped with that knowledge, it does all seem well 0:06:26.404 --> 0:06:30.685 pretty obvious, Like, Sarah, did that leave you disappointed or 0:06:31.365 --> 0:06:33.805 even more impressed with Nolan's sleight of hand. 0:06:34.885 --> 0:06:37.805 I am really glad you asked this question because it 0:06:38.045 --> 0:06:42.165 helped me clarify a little bit. It helped me locate 0:06:42.245 --> 0:06:44.405 one of the reasons why. And I'll stay at the 0:06:44.445 --> 0:06:46.485 say at the front here. This is still top tier 0:06:46.565 --> 0:06:49.205 Nolan for me really love this film. I think it's 0:06:49.245 --> 0:06:51.964 incredibly strong, but your question helped me locate one of 0:06:51.964 --> 0:06:54.244 the reasons why I might have liked it a little 0:06:54.245 --> 0:06:56.564 bit less this time around. And it's not so simple 0:06:56.605 --> 0:07:00.245 as knowing the twists or knowing the surprises, because confession, 0:07:00.925 --> 0:07:03.364 I don't think I watched The Prestige since two thousand 0:07:03.365 --> 0:07:07.885 and six, and I had mostly forgotten how everything unfolded. Now, yeah, 0:07:08.005 --> 0:07:10.645 the hints and clues. I pieced it together in advance 0:07:10.765 --> 0:07:14.165 in a way that I did not in six. But 0:07:14.245 --> 0:07:16.325 it's different from not knowing anything. So I was still 0:07:16.325 --> 0:07:19.445 pretty much in the dark as this movie began. So 0:07:19.485 --> 0:07:22.125 it's not just that I knew the answer. It's and 0:07:22.165 --> 0:07:25.565 I'm not sure it disappoints even in terms of its reveals, 0:07:25.605 --> 0:07:30.005 but in comparison to something like as before we started recording, 0:07:30.045 --> 0:07:33.125 you had mentioned the sixth cents, So comparison to something 0:07:33.245 --> 0:07:36.445 like that, which we did revisit just last year and 0:07:36.605 --> 0:07:39.885 is another case where it hugely depends on its reveals, 0:07:39.925 --> 0:07:43.605 it's twists, its turns, its surprises. I do think in 0:07:43.645 --> 0:07:47.125 comparison to something like that, the Prestige is a little 0:07:47.125 --> 0:07:50.885 bit less rewarding the second time. And the basic reason 0:07:50.925 --> 0:07:54.805 for me is that my sixth sense rewatch had more 0:07:55.125 --> 0:07:59.725 esthetic clues to soak up that were related to the mystery. 0:07:59.765 --> 0:08:02.685 So things like the color red, remember we talked about that, 0:08:02.805 --> 0:08:06.005 or even the cold breath that you were curious about 0:08:06.005 --> 0:08:08.045 the first time, and it was a visual element that 0:08:08.165 --> 0:08:12.045 late you realize, oh, that represents the dead and you 0:08:12.045 --> 0:08:14.125 can look for that and feel it on the screen. 0:08:14.605 --> 0:08:17.605 So those were esthetic clues to soak up, whereas here 0:08:17.645 --> 0:08:21.445 in The Prestige they're more narrative clues or or just 0:08:21.805 --> 0:08:25.525 narrative reveals to remember, so not so much to experience. 0:08:25.565 --> 0:08:27.525 But as I was watching the Prestige, it would be 0:08:27.605 --> 0:08:31.285 like when they revealed that, oh, yeah, that's what this means. 0:08:31.325 --> 0:08:33.125 And as an example of this, I would say the 0:08:33.245 --> 0:08:38.445 journal entries a lot of this unfolds as competing journal entries, 0:08:38.485 --> 0:08:42.205 and it's revealed that the writer knows the reader will 0:08:42.245 --> 0:08:44.564 read it one day, right twice in both cases. In 0:08:44.605 --> 0:08:46.725 both cases we get that, and that's kind of a 0:08:46.845 --> 0:08:50.645 narrative plot reveal, or even Bail's explanation at the very end, 0:08:50.965 --> 0:08:53.245 And here fair warning to listeners if you have not 0:08:53.325 --> 0:08:55.805 seen the prestige, we are going to get into spoilers. 0:08:56.725 --> 0:08:59.845 Just seems natural for this overview and for this type 0:08:59.845 --> 0:09:02.805 of film in particular, So maybe watch the film and 0:09:02.804 --> 0:09:05.685 come back to this conversation. But another example of this 0:09:05.725 --> 0:09:08.165 I would give is Bail's explanation at the very end 0:09:08.605 --> 0:09:11.324 that he's a twin when he explains this all to Jackman, Right, 0:09:12.125 --> 0:09:14.805 that's kind of it's a cool twist, and if you 0:09:14.925 --> 0:09:20.165 hadn't pieced it together before, it's it's exciting to understand. 0:09:20.445 --> 0:09:23.845 But it's also something of a narrative explanation rather than 0:09:23.885 --> 0:09:27.925 an esthetic surprise or something that's a little more textured. 0:09:27.965 --> 0:09:31.445 So I'd say it's still rewarding to watch those clues 0:09:31.525 --> 0:09:34.324 be cleverly set in place. One example, to go back 0:09:34.325 --> 0:09:38.085 to Rebecca Hall's character, I really loved how she would 0:09:38.125 --> 0:09:42.125 repeatedly say to Bail's character today, you mean it yet, 0:09:42.165 --> 0:09:45.165 My Love's Time. Yeah, yeah, because the first time I 0:09:45.205 --> 0:09:48.324 watched that that was just kind of like a curiosity, 0:09:48.804 --> 0:09:52.565 and the second time it holds much more power. Yeah, 0:09:52.965 --> 0:09:55.005 So I do appreciate it still, but it's not quite 0:09:55.045 --> 0:09:58.005 as formally interesting as the sixth Cents. So I think 0:09:58.005 --> 0:10:00.245 that's a distinction between the two and maybe why the 0:10:00.285 --> 0:10:03.165 revisit for six Cents was was a little bit more enjoyable, 0:10:03.205 --> 0:10:05.564 even though again really love this film. 0:10:05.725 --> 0:10:09.405 Yeah, we'll definitely talk a little bit more about Rebecca Hall. 0:10:09.605 --> 0:10:15.125 And I think I had the slightly opposite experience to you, Josh. Ironically, 0:10:15.165 --> 0:10:18.085 maybe I was more disappointed the first time I saw 0:10:18.125 --> 0:10:20.525 the film as we got to the reveal and all 0:10:20.564 --> 0:10:24.445 of that new information, as I got the exhilarating thrill 0:10:25.005 --> 0:10:27.525 of that twist. I looked back at my notes from 0:10:27.525 --> 0:10:30.685 my original review, and I was positive here on the show, 0:10:30.684 --> 0:10:33.005 but I wasn't gushing, and I specifically said, at least 0:10:33.005 --> 0:10:35.565 in my notes that in the end, I guess I'm 0:10:35.605 --> 0:10:38.965 stealing from myself, just like these magicians in the movie. Josh, 0:10:39.165 --> 0:10:41.685 I felt a little bit like Sarah once the trick 0:10:41.804 --> 0:10:44.085 was revealed to me. I actually just felt kind of stupid. 0:10:44.325 --> 0:10:46.964 I wasn't amazed at the artistry. I was just kind 0:10:47.005 --> 0:10:49.685 of mad at myself for not figuring it out. But 0:10:49.965 --> 0:10:51.684 I do think, if I'm being honest, there was a 0:10:51.725 --> 0:10:54.964 complicating factor there, and that was I probably was a 0:10:54.965 --> 0:10:57.405 little bit mad at myself and feeling like an idiot, 0:10:57.645 --> 0:11:00.525 because I'm pretty sure I did not fully figure it 0:11:00.525 --> 0:11:03.525 out even as Nolan laid it all out the characters 0:11:03.564 --> 0:11:08.205 gave it to me. Yeah, I still was swimming a 0:11:08.205 --> 0:11:10.485 little bit ahead. Was swimming mull it over when you 0:11:10.485 --> 0:11:11.245 got an idea. 0:11:11.325 --> 0:11:13.285 Yeah, I was in the same exact But let me 0:11:13.325 --> 0:11:15.965 ask you this, because I think this is interesting. You 0:11:16.045 --> 0:11:20.045 described in your setup how we you know, audiences riffing 0:11:20.085 --> 0:11:23.405 on the film they want to be fooled, And I 0:11:23.445 --> 0:11:25.605 feel like people can watch movies like this two different ways. 0:11:25.645 --> 0:11:28.045 I'm curious which type of person you describe yourself as, 0:11:28.245 --> 0:11:30.205 the person who does want to be fooled or the 0:11:30.205 --> 0:11:32.565 person who loves to figure it out along the way, 0:11:32.605 --> 0:11:35.005 because I'm more of the want to be fooled person 0:11:35.684 --> 0:11:36.005 me too. 0:11:36.085 --> 0:11:38.965 Okay, all right, so that's completely and that's why I 0:11:39.085 --> 0:11:41.285 fall for a movie like this, even when I'm watching 0:11:41.325 --> 0:11:43.405 it for a second time. The first time sinso six. 0:11:43.485 --> 0:11:47.005 But I'm seeing it again and I fundamentally know what 0:11:47.085 --> 0:11:47.765 the trick is. 0:11:47.965 --> 0:11:48.325 Mm hmm. 0:11:48.804 --> 0:11:52.445 I still am willing to basically forget that and play along. Yeah, 0:11:52.445 --> 0:11:54.845 And so if you do see it as a trick, 0:11:55.045 --> 0:11:57.685 if you see it as at the end, okay, Nolan 0:11:57.725 --> 0:12:00.085 pulled one over on us and I should have caught 0:12:00.125 --> 0:12:04.645 on to Boreden's secret, then I can understand some dissatisfaction. 0:12:04.725 --> 0:12:07.285 But I think the benefit for me of seeing it 0:12:07.325 --> 0:12:09.765 again and knowing where it was going is that I 0:12:09.765 --> 0:12:13.245 could focus on, hopefully what the movie is really about, 0:12:13.645 --> 0:12:17.084 what the ramifications of the twist are, and the ideas 0:12:17.564 --> 0:12:19.724 it raises. To use the line from the movie, it's 0:12:19.765 --> 0:12:22.405 what I think Bail says one point, The secret impresses 0:12:22.445 --> 0:12:25.765 no one. The trick you use it for is everything, which, 0:12:25.804 --> 0:12:27.925 as we'll probably also get into, that could just as 0:12:27.965 --> 0:12:31.405 easily be Nolan talking about the trick of filmmaking, right 0:12:31.485 --> 0:12:35.925 that you can fool people or while people with certain gimmicks, 0:12:36.005 --> 0:12:39.365 maybe even like a reverse chronology in a film like Memento. 0:12:39.525 --> 0:12:41.805 But it's the trick you use it for that is 0:12:41.845 --> 0:12:44.645 really key. And in fact, Josh, what occurred to me 0:12:44.684 --> 0:12:49.005 this time is that Borden's secret, his grand sacrifice, this 0:12:49.445 --> 0:12:52.885 notion that he's really been living his whole life. I 0:12:52.925 --> 0:12:54.685 was gonna say it's a double life, but it's actually 0:12:54.684 --> 0:12:56.845 a half life. You know, it's a part of him, 0:12:57.045 --> 0:12:59.965 and he never actually gets to fully explore the other 0:13:00.085 --> 0:13:03.205 part of him because he's divided up everything, his family 0:13:03.765 --> 0:13:07.965 and his arts, even as a magician. But that sacrifice, 0:13:08.005 --> 0:13:10.805 even though it does feel like it's the final reveal 0:13:10.885 --> 0:13:14.485 of the film, you discover it's actually kind of the misdirection, 0:13:14.605 --> 0:13:17.325 and I think the real secret to wrestle with. And 0:13:17.365 --> 0:13:21.845 again we're in full spoiler territory here is in jeer sacrifice. 0:13:22.445 --> 0:13:27.205 Not just how complicated and involved and difficult this scheme is, 0:13:27.285 --> 0:13:30.485 which obviously took so much time in planning to undo Borden, 0:13:31.365 --> 0:13:35.085 but that in finally doing what Bordon always accused him 0:13:35.085 --> 0:13:38.405 of not doing, finally committing to his craft, finally getting 0:13:38.405 --> 0:13:43.925 his hands dirty, he doesn't just compromise his morals. He 0:13:43.965 --> 0:13:47.445 doesn't just compromise the basic laws of human morality. Yeah, 0:13:47.485 --> 0:13:50.925 he destroys all notions of human morality. It's actually, if 0:13:50.965 --> 0:13:53.725 you sit back and think about it, fully comprehend it, 0:13:53.725 --> 0:13:56.925 it's actually astonishing to put yourself in Angier's shoes and 0:13:56.965 --> 0:14:01.645 consider the literal act of self destruction. He makes the 0:14:01.684 --> 0:14:04.684 decision to go through with it, and I didn't recognize that, 0:14:04.725 --> 0:14:07.085 and I didn't reckon with it the first time I 0:14:07.125 --> 0:14:09.485 saw this movie. I think I was too caught up 0:14:09.525 --> 0:14:11.525 in some of the other reveals. I was too caught 0:14:11.605 --> 0:14:15.204 up in Boredon's secret and in the one upman ship. 0:14:15.245 --> 0:14:17.084 I think he got me. Nolan got me with his 0:14:17.125 --> 0:14:18.925 sleight of hand, a little bit, maybe to the movie's 0:14:18.965 --> 0:14:22.405 own detriment, because I didn't fully think about the ideas 0:14:22.805 --> 0:14:25.765 at its core, and since we are in spoiler territory 0:14:25.845 --> 0:14:28.165 in case it's not clear to someone, the implication for 0:14:28.245 --> 0:14:29.645 me of the end of the film, what we learn 0:14:29.725 --> 0:14:33.445 about Anger is is that Angier that we're seeing get 0:14:33.485 --> 0:14:37.205 shot by Borden is not the Angeer we open the 0:14:37.245 --> 0:14:39.645 movie with. No that's my understand that it's a clone 0:14:39.765 --> 0:14:42.205 that's the clone of Anger, and it might be at 0:14:42.285 --> 0:14:46.525 least the hundredth maybe more clone, like he has decided 0:14:46.725 --> 0:14:50.005 that for this act, and we do see the scene 0:14:50.045 --> 0:14:52.605 in a flashback where he does have to kill that 0:14:52.725 --> 0:14:54.325 clone for the first time, and he doesn't really have 0:14:54.405 --> 0:14:56.565 much of a decision to make right, but he clearly 0:14:56.605 --> 0:14:58.445 then does make the decision after that, Well, once I've 0:14:58.485 --> 0:15:01.165 gone past that line, why not just keep crossing it? 0:15:01.365 --> 0:15:04.005 And every night is this act of self annihilation for 0:15:04.085 --> 0:15:07.725 his art, So following through on that theme it is, 0:15:07.845 --> 0:15:10.245 That's what's truly mind blowing for me when I think 0:15:10.285 --> 0:15:12.125 about it. And to go back to the sixth sense, 0:15:12.165 --> 0:15:15.485 as you brought that up, I think too, maybe you're right, 0:15:15.525 --> 0:15:18.525 maybe some of the craft elements aren't there, some of 0:15:18.525 --> 0:15:21.285 the visual aesthetics to really queue you in or to 0:15:21.325 --> 0:15:22.925 be a little bit more rewarding. 0:15:23.165 --> 0:15:24.285 But I did appreciate that. 0:15:24.845 --> 0:15:27.445 I think he did make it fairly obvious, like we 0:15:27.565 --> 0:15:30.485 know what Angier is doing from the moment he gets 0:15:30.845 --> 0:15:33.485 the box and the moment he embarks on, well, we 0:15:33.525 --> 0:15:34.685 should final tour. 0:15:34.845 --> 0:15:37.205 We should know from honestly, we should know from the 0:15:37.245 --> 0:15:40.125 cat and the top hats. That's exactly what I mean. Right, Yeah, 0:15:40.205 --> 0:15:41.565 you're right at least from that point. 0:15:41.565 --> 0:15:44.245 But once he decides to take the box and we 0:15:44.365 --> 0:15:46.685 know what it does because we saw the top hats 0:15:46.685 --> 0:15:48.445 and the cat, then we know that he's made a 0:15:48.485 --> 0:15:49.965 decision to do this every night. 0:15:50.085 --> 0:15:52.765 But when I didn't know. This goes back to you 0:15:52.845 --> 0:15:56.325 feeling I didn't put that together, even though you're right 0:15:56.405 --> 0:15:56.885 we should have. 0:15:57.005 --> 0:16:00.285 Yeah, I didn't either, And so now you see it 0:16:00.325 --> 0:16:03.285 and you realize that that's laid out for you, was 0:16:03.325 --> 0:16:05.604 still twenty or thirty minutes left in the movie that 0:16:06.285 --> 0:16:11.485 the Fallon character is so hidden by the camera and 0:16:11.645 --> 0:16:14.325 edit it around so we don't as viewers study him 0:16:14.365 --> 0:16:16.925 too closely because partly two, if we did, we'd probably 0:16:16.925 --> 0:16:20.005 catch on that he's really Christian Bale. How about cutter 0:16:20.165 --> 0:16:23.365 Michael Caine telling us early on in the film. I 0:16:23.405 --> 0:16:25.605 know how he does it. He just tells Anger it's 0:16:25.605 --> 0:16:28.325 a double. That is what it is. He knows it's 0:16:28.325 --> 0:16:32.325 a double. And I think that like Angeer, we as viewers, 0:16:32.445 --> 0:16:34.285 we want to be fooled and we want to be 0:16:34.365 --> 0:16:36.925 like Malcolm Crow in the sixth sense. We see what 0:16:37.005 --> 0:16:39.325 we want to see. We embrace the lie. I think 0:16:39.365 --> 0:16:41.525 our reasons are slightly different as viewers. I think that 0:16:41.605 --> 0:16:44.525 might be just how we're wired as audiences to give 0:16:44.525 --> 0:16:46.845 the benefit of the doubt to the narrative and want 0:16:46.885 --> 0:16:50.565 to believe it is relatively straightforward and linear in a way. 0:16:50.805 --> 0:16:54.765 But for Angeer Man, I already mentioned Memento. He's just 0:16:54.845 --> 0:16:57.725 like Leonard. The lie is what gives his life, meaning, 0:16:57.765 --> 0:17:00.805 it's what gives him purpose, that line he has, I'm disciplined. 0:17:00.845 --> 0:17:03.645 I'm talking about Leonard here in momento. I'm disciplined and organized. 0:17:03.765 --> 0:17:06.325 I use habit and routine to make my life possible. 0:17:06.445 --> 0:17:09.445 I mean that's a injeer certainly, but also it speaks 0:17:09.445 --> 0:17:11.925 for Bordon. So I guess in short, what I'm saying 0:17:12.045 --> 0:17:14.885 is I thought that one of the great tricks of 0:17:14.925 --> 0:17:16.725 the sixth sense. We talked about this a lot as 0:17:16.765 --> 0:17:19.045 part of our nine for ninety nine last year, was 0:17:19.485 --> 0:17:22.045 em Ni Shaum wants putting it all out there for you, 0:17:22.125 --> 0:17:23.845 and he's putting you in the same position as his 0:17:23.885 --> 0:17:26.565 main character. All the evidence is there, and we choose 0:17:26.645 --> 0:17:28.645 to overlook it, just like he does. We want to 0:17:28.685 --> 0:17:31.165 believe what we're being given, what's being put in front 0:17:31.165 --> 0:17:33.685 of us, and here I think we're actually in a 0:17:33.725 --> 0:17:35.005 similar position to Angier. 0:17:35.325 --> 0:17:38.645 Well, the full reality of his monstrousness is something that 0:17:39.045 --> 0:17:42.005 I think maybe it's denial, Maybe it's a form of 0:17:42.045 --> 0:17:45.165 denial we have where we don't want anyone, even someone 0:17:45.165 --> 0:17:48.125 who's you know, sort of a not a hero, but 0:17:48.165 --> 0:17:51.285 a protagonist for sure in this movie, and someone who's 0:17:51.485 --> 0:17:54.085 charming to a certain degree, as played by Hugh Jackman. 0:17:54.165 --> 0:17:55.885 We don't want to admit he would do something like this, 0:17:55.965 --> 0:17:59.045 So it takes getting out of the theater and recognizing 0:17:59.085 --> 0:18:02.165 that he has been if not I mean committing murder 0:18:02.245 --> 0:18:04.845 slash suicide on a nightly basis. And I did have 0:18:04.965 --> 0:18:07.525 like kind of a nerdy question about that this time around. 0:18:08.045 --> 0:18:12.005 So my understanding, based on what we see that first 0:18:12.045 --> 0:18:16.365 time when he does shoot the clone, is that whoever 0:18:16.685 --> 0:18:21.485 steps into the box on stage is the person who 0:18:21.525 --> 0:18:24.645 will die that night. But I do that's my understanding. 0:18:24.685 --> 0:18:27.125 But there is a line of dialogue he says, how 0:18:27.165 --> 0:18:29.805 about how it took sacrifice and it took it was 0:18:29.885 --> 0:18:32.965 dangerous because he never knew if he'd be the man 0:18:33.045 --> 0:18:36.645 in the box, which I'm still trying to unpack. I 0:18:36.645 --> 0:18:39.845 feel like and maybe a listener will will be able to, 0:18:40.005 --> 0:18:42.245 you know, explain this who's paid closer attention. But I 0:18:42.245 --> 0:18:46.005 feel like that's a conflict and my understanding was and 0:18:46.125 --> 0:18:49.645 to me, it strikes me as more powerful if the showman, 0:18:49.965 --> 0:18:53.085 the stage guy getting all the applause, it goes back 0:18:53.125 --> 0:18:56.125 to him being underneath and not hearing the applause. Knew 0:18:56.165 --> 0:18:59.445 each night to keep this ruse going, this long con 0:18:59.925 --> 0:19:05.685 to get bored and required nightly suicide. And that is, 0:19:06.885 --> 0:19:10.525 you know, equally monstrous, but kind of a different, differently 0:19:10.645 --> 0:19:14.485 monstrous conundrum. So I don't know if you it sounds 0:19:14.485 --> 0:19:16.565 like you had the same reading I did on that otie. Yes, 0:19:16.725 --> 0:19:17.485 I definitely did. 0:19:17.485 --> 0:19:20.045 And to go back to your point too, about what 0:19:20.125 --> 0:19:22.525 we as viewers we want to accept or don't want 0:19:22.565 --> 0:19:26.005 to accept the Tesla line played by David Bowie here 0:19:26.525 --> 0:19:28.845 where he says you're familiar with the phrase man's reach 0:19:28.925 --> 0:19:32.085 exceeds his grasp and he says it's a lie. Man's 0:19:32.085 --> 0:19:35.525 graphs exceeds his nerve. That's surely what we see play 0:19:35.565 --> 0:19:37.725 out over the course of the movie. And ultimately Angier 0:19:37.925 --> 0:19:40.165 realizes that he has the nerve. Yeah, and he steals 0:19:40.205 --> 0:19:41.805 himself to do this every night. But I think we 0:19:41.885 --> 0:19:45.005 as viewers almost are are that man. We just don't 0:19:45.005 --> 0:19:47.285 have the nerve to do what Angrew is capable of, 0:19:47.445 --> 0:19:49.605 and we don't even want to believe that someone like 0:19:49.685 --> 0:19:51.765 him or anyone is capable of that. 0:19:52.045 --> 0:19:55.045 Yeah. Yeah, So let me back up and state, you know, 0:19:55.165 --> 0:19:57.205 kind of where I was at with a film in 0:19:57.245 --> 0:19:59.725 two thousand and six, And why for me to say 0:19:59.725 --> 0:20:01.565 that this was a little bit less of an experience 0:20:01.645 --> 0:20:03.485 is not a slight on the film at all, because 0:20:04.485 --> 0:20:07.325 I think at the time, again, coming after Batman Begins, 0:20:07.885 --> 0:20:10.045 I would have claimed this was Nolan's best film in 0:20:10.325 --> 0:20:12.485 six and I think that was partly because for me, 0:20:12.765 --> 0:20:16.285 it was a return to Memento form. I had loved Memento. 0:20:16.965 --> 0:20:19.605 Was thrilled by Batman begins again as sort of a 0:20:19.965 --> 0:20:22.365 kid who grew up on super heroes and this was 0:20:22.565 --> 0:20:25.005 a new way to approach them, I thought. But both 0:20:25.005 --> 0:20:29.725 Batman Begins in Insomnia comparatively to Memento, we're pretty straightforward. 0:20:30.165 --> 0:20:32.765 And I was so excited about this new filmmaker who 0:20:32.765 --> 0:20:36.965 made Memento that when I got this and it seemed 0:20:37.085 --> 0:20:39.805 much more in the vein of Memento, but maybe a 0:20:39.805 --> 0:20:41.805 little more I don't know if polished is the right word, 0:20:41.805 --> 0:20:46.285 but it's a bigger scale, bigger production. It just it 0:20:46.365 --> 0:20:50.205 knocked me out and I loved it. Now, even if 0:20:50.205 --> 0:20:54.005 I don't say it's probably maybe not Nolan's best film, 0:20:54.205 --> 0:20:56.765 I do think it might be his most nolan esque 0:20:56.885 --> 0:20:59.685 and that's because it's got the narrative layers and the 0:20:59.765 --> 0:21:03.005 convoluted timeline. We think of these themes. You and I 0:21:03.005 --> 0:21:07.005 have already discussed obsession, mainly in the lengths the Place's 0:21:07.045 --> 0:21:11.565 Obsession will take men. We have more traumatized protagonists, both 0:21:11.605 --> 0:21:15.045 of them doubly traumatized, you know, triply if you include 0:21:15.085 --> 0:21:19.325 the Boord and twins. And then adding on top of 0:21:19.365 --> 0:21:23.605