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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 2: your weekly reminder that there's a podcast and it's called

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Speaker 2: Cool People Who Didical Stuff and you listen to it.

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Speaker 2: I am your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and with me today

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Speaker 2: is my guest Rachel Angelie. Hi.

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Speaker 3: Hello, I'm happy to be back.

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Speaker 2: Yay on this totally now, I've got to stop pretending

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Speaker 2: like it's a different day.

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Speaker 3: All right, I'm totally glad to still be here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've learned this really important trick where I eat

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Speaker 2: before recording now instead of slowly running out of energy

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Speaker 2: as the recording goes on. Also on the call is

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Speaker 2: Sophie ray Lichtmann. Hi, Hi, what kind of tree do

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Speaker 2: you hope that gets named after you? Because we have

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Speaker 2: the plaque already.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, that's a really hard question. Something that bears fruit.

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Speaker 3: It's a good answer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of have always wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a lemon tree.

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Speaker 2: You'd be a good lemon tree, you could see that, or.

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Speaker 1: Like a guava tree or a mandarin trees.

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Speaker 4: I think I'm going citrus.

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Speaker 2: Okay, have you seen those the citrus, the oranges that

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Speaker 2: have like huge thorns?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I like those.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think maybe I've seen those.

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Speaker 4: I also love a kara kara orange.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know those.

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Speaker 1: It's like if an orange was even juicier bread maybe

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Speaker 1: a little a little bit darker. Yeah, okay, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a grapefruit. I don't love grapefruit.

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Speaker 2: I like grapefruit. I like you have the little ritual

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Speaker 2: like I don't like grapefruit. When you're just eating a grapefruit,

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Speaker 2: I like to like cut it in half.

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Speaker 1: I don't dislike grapefruit, but I like you have to

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Speaker 1: commit to the grapefruit flavor.

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Speaker 3: It's like that, I make a grapefruit smoothie with grapefruit

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Speaker 3: and friz and pineapple and ginger, and it's very delicious.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm gonna try that. That sounds amazing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the other really port in question. Have y'all seen

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Speaker 2: the new Star Trek negative Fine, y'all don't have to

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Speaker 2: watch it. I started Okay, here's my take that you

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Speaker 2: all don't care about.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't care, but I want it.

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Speaker 3: Give us your nerd take.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I started watching Star Trek Academy, and the

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Speaker 2: first two episodes so didn't work for me that I

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Speaker 2: was like pretty sad and then I made myself keep watching.

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Speaker 2: It's so good. I love Woke Trek. Woke Trek is amazing.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't convinced because it was doing Woke Trek in

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Speaker 2: a way that I didn't like because it was space

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Speaker 2: Hogwarts and I don't like anything Hogwarts in fool me once.

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Speaker 2: But it's really good and completely on Hogwarts. And I'm

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Speaker 2: so sorry to everyone that I doubted. That wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: known that I doubted you because I hadn't said it

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Speaker 2: to anyone, but now I've said it into a microphone.

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Speaker 2: So this is part two of a two parter in

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Speaker 2: which we are talking about the Lusty Lady and sex

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Speaker 2: Work Organizing. And in part one we talked about everything

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Speaker 2: except the Lusty Lady, and so in part two we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about the Lusty Lady.

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Speaker 1: Yay.

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Speaker 2: I don't even actually plan one episode context, one episode subject.

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Speaker 2: I just write the entire script and then I find

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Speaker 2: the halfway point and it's always this how your brain were? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Oh totally, that's amazing. The building that eventually became The

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Speaker 2: Lusty Lady is ten thirty three Kearney Street, and it

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Speaker 2: was originally probably a swingers club and before that it

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Speaker 2: was the Barbary Coast, so who knows what was there,

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Speaker 2: but probably vice. Then in nineteen seventy six, the Lusty

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Speaker 2: Lady was opened as a porno theater, I actually think,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not harmed so certain, because it's by confusing

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Speaker 2: to look up two clubs that both have the same

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Speaker 2: name and two different cities. The owners that actually started

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Speaker 2: the Lusty Lady in Seattle first but that we're not

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Speaker 2: really going to come back to that, and so then

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Speaker 2: they went down and started the Lusty Lady in San

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Speaker 2: Francisco in the North Beach district that was full of

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Speaker 2: various sex shops and things. And in this Lusty Lady

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Speaker 2: you could watch sixteen millimeter films of people doing sex

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Speaker 2: stuff and you could watch in a private booth by yourself,

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Speaker 2: or you could bring a friend. Sixteen millimeters like the DIY, Well,

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Speaker 2: real super DIY would be eight millimeter film that's like

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Speaker 2: absolutely tiny, but sixteen millimeters, like what like student films

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Speaker 2: and independent films was often filmed with as compared to

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Speaker 2: like thirty five millimeters and larger, which would be Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: Got it.

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Speaker 2: Porn is as old as film. Well, it's actually way

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Speaker 2: older than film. But film porn is as old as film,

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Speaker 2: a fact that surprises nobody. There are fucking cave paintings

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Speaker 2: in France that show fertility rights, as anthropologists like to

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Speaker 2: call it. Hmmm, and I couldn't find the source for

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Speaker 2: it just now, but I remember reading about how there

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Speaker 2: were basically peep shows that would show pornographic kinetoscopes, like

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Speaker 2: before it was even projected f film, when it was

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Speaker 2: just like a series of moving images or series of

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Speaker 2: images showed to you very quickly.

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Speaker 4: That's so fucking cool.

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Speaker 2: I know. Actually the word peep show comes from before

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Speaker 2: it being like about sex. A peep show is like

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Speaker 2: you go and you pay, and you're like you look

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Speaker 2: into a little thing and you get to see a

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Speaker 2: picture of something.

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Speaker 5: And then they were like, what are the pictures boobies?

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Speaker 5: What if the pictures boobies? That is a great question,

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Speaker 5: I mean, what a great surprise. I wonder how that

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Speaker 5: transition was. Was it like, could be flowers, could be boobies,

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Speaker 5: and then suddenly it was all.

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Speaker 2: Booby Yeah, I just I don't know. Yeah, yeah that.

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Speaker 3: Would be fun if you know whatever age.

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Speaker 2: If you're an adult, yeah, yeah, exactly. And film is

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Speaker 2: depending on how you're defining it. It's from about eighteen

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Speaker 2: ninety five. So in eighteen ninety six there's multiple porns.

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Speaker 2: There's The Bridegroom's Dilemma, which is considered the first porn,

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Speaker 2: and it only came after a year after the invention

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Speaker 2: of film itself, and we only have pieces of it,

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Speaker 2: and it might not have actually shown explicit stuff, but

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Speaker 2: I think we only have two minutes of it. I

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Speaker 2: suspect that they did, but I don't actually know. And

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Speaker 2: then also in eighteen ninety six, truly scandalous, an eighteen

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Speaker 2: second movie was released called The Kiss, and it showed

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Speaker 2: two people kissing, Oh my gosh, yas they kissed each other. No,

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Speaker 2: they were fully dressed, but they kissed each other on

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Speaker 2: the mouth.

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Speaker 3: WHOA.

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Speaker 2: The Catholic Church kind of likes to get mad at stuff,

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Speaker 2: So the Catholic Church got mad about that one. There

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Speaker 2: are kind of snowflakes. I just gotta go ahead and say.

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Speaker 3: That I appreciate and understand, like the cave paintings existed.

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Speaker 3: But so much of the anti porn like rhetoric is

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Speaker 3: that porn teaches people to be violent, Like oh, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's a famous quote by an anti porn feminist from

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Speaker 3: the eighties that Robin Morgan said, porn is the theory,

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Speaker 3: rape is the practice. And so this notion that if

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Speaker 3: you ban porn then sexual violence would end or something.

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Speaker 3: But it's so interesting to hear this time that we

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Speaker 3: know was you know, an era where maybe slavery is

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Speaker 3: in mind. And I'm always like, do you think sexual violence?

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Speaker 3: And when people are like porn makes commodities out of

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Speaker 3: human beings, I'm like, do you know what else made? Like,

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Speaker 3: do you know what made commodities out of human beings?

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Speaker 3: So just this idea that porn is the cause of

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Speaker 3: people doing violence is just so ridiculous. So to think

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Speaker 3: about what was this eighteen second video of a kiss

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Speaker 3: teaching people? Yeah, terrible things.

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Speaker 2: And it's just so funny because like porn, especially in

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Speaker 2: the nineteenth century before film, when you photographic porn, it

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Speaker 2: was like naughty, you know, it was like like people

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Speaker 2: would have little tiny At a steampunk convention, you might

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Speaker 2: still run across people would have like original of these

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Speaker 2: be like a little ring and if you look in

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Speaker 2: the ring, there's a tiny crystal so that it magnifies

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Speaker 2: what you see, and then it would be a picture

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Speaker 2: of like boobies or whatever. And I'm saying this as

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Speaker 2: like comically as possible because it was like titillating and

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Speaker 2: it was like, oh, you know, like there's a penis

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Speaker 2: in there or whatever.

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Speaker 3: So much of porn today is still really still like

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Speaker 3: it's silly, right, and everybody's in on the joke, I

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Speaker 3: mean not, you know, there is a difference.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, there's yeah, yes, there's people committing crimes and filming it,

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Speaker 2: and that is a different thing.

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Speaker 3: It's a different thing.

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Speaker 2: And then there's bad labor practices, which is a labor

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Speaker 2: practice issue which will find in every field.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: By nineteen oh seven, you have the first known hardcore pornography,

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Speaker 2: although some people claim it's actually from the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 2: and from a different country, but overall people tend to

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Speaker 2: think Elis Satario the Satyr from Argentina, and this is

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Speaker 2: straight up porn. This is very recognizable as modern pornography.

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Speaker 2: It is a man in a devil mask fucking somebody

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Speaker 2: like sixty nine yen everything, and it is the first

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Speaker 2: known hardcore pornography. I suspect that this probably happened sooner

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Speaker 2: and just wasn't commercialized, like I suspect the first person

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Speaker 2: who had a care was like, hey, honey, come here,

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Speaker 2: I got an idea, you know, because like and.

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Speaker 1: He was probably wearing a double mask, yeah, totally, or

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Speaker 1: it was just a man. Yeah, well, like, I suspect

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of pornography created in this world is

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Speaker 1: individuals for their sake and for their like partner's sake,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so as soon as there's cameras, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure people were like, oh, I've got an idea, right,

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Speaker 1: because we're like, we are humans, and people have different drives,

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Speaker 1: and you know, like people learn to draw and then

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Speaker 1: are like, I'm drawing people fucking people learn to write

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Speaker 1: and are like, but what if my characters from my

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Speaker 1: favorite show were having.

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Speaker 3: Sex people play with barbies and make.

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Speaker 2: The best learn what sisoring is? Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. America,

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Speaker 2: North America This Time gave the world its first videoed

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Speaker 2: threesome that we know or film threesome in nineteen fifteen

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Speaker 2: with a free ride. And this is like even the

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Speaker 2: plot of modern porn like El Satario is kind of interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's like a bunch of naked girls prancing through the

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Speaker 2: woods and then one of them gets like, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm trapped by the devil and I'm having sex with them.

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Speaker 2: A free ride is just a guy who picks up

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Speaker 2: two women who are hitchhiking and then he watches them

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Speaker 2: piss and then they all fuck all right, And I

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Speaker 2: have a really hard job. And the production studio is

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Speaker 2: Gay Parie. Like the title at the beginning, it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: It stars jazz girls, and it's directed by a wise guy.

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Speaker 2: It is photographed by will be Hard, Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: and the titles are.

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Speaker 3: Will she Oh that's amazing. I thought they were having

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Speaker 3: a blast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Like and again obviously there's like serious labor

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Speaker 2: problems in parts of the porn world.

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Speaker 3: Of like, of course, yes.

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Speaker 2: Sex work is work, and work sucks, yes, yeah.

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Speaker 3: But sometimes when you're filming a little video and it's

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Speaker 3: just like, oh, this was silly and fun. Also that

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Speaker 3: like just like any job, sometimes it's fun.

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Speaker 2: Amazing, Yeah, totally. Yeah. So The Lusty Lady, they're not

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Speaker 2: breaking new ground here. They show films and private booths,

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Speaker 2: and then in nineteen eighty three they added live entertainment

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Speaker 2: the whole like you're in a booth and can watch

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Speaker 2: a viewer through glass. I believe it's like a mirrored

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Speaker 2: room so that you can kind of see all the

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Speaker 2: angles and watch if someone does stuff in a room.

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Speaker 2: And this has got to be a hard job. It's

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Speaker 2: a twenty four hour establishment. If you've ever worked in

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Speaker 2: anywhere that has a twenty four hour I worked at

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Speaker 2: a place that was open till three in the morning

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Speaker 2: and then open again at eight, and that was too much. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: even though it like I'm not working that whole time,

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Speaker 2: but you still are like, oh, we better close down

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Speaker 2: and get everything clean because it's about to open again.

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Speaker 2: The idea that you don't get the downtime. It's hard work. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but workers, the dancers tended to appreciate that there was

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Speaker 2: a glass between them and the customer versus other strip

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Speaker 2: clubs in the area. I am unsure what the janitors

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Speaker 2: thought about it, though, MM and conditions in legal sex

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Speaker 2: work establishments have always been rough because legalization makes the

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Speaker 2: whole thing so fussy and ripe for exploitation of the workers.

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Speaker 2: In the nineteen nineties, labor conditions at strip clubs got

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Speaker 2: worse and worse, to quote the site found sf quote.

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Speaker 2: Clubs eliminated minimum wages, overtime pay, and social security for dancers.

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Speaker 2: This is like when they start getting like, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I've got an idea. These aren't our employees. These are freelancers,

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Speaker 2: you know. And back to the quote. Instead made them

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Speaker 2: pay increasingly expensive stage fees and work exclusively for tips.

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Speaker 2: More places started saying everyone's an independent contractors and labor protections.

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Speaker 2: And one guy bought up the North Beach strip clubs

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Speaker 2: to get himself a monopoly and fuck everyone over. And

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Speaker 2: I believe that guy, but I'm uncertain is Roger Forbes

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Speaker 2: Who's going to soon be the villain of the week. Okay,

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Speaker 2: there was a union that I want to know more

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Speaker 2: about called the Exotic Dancers Alliance that was trying to

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Speaker 2: unionize there. They started working in the strip clubs in

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Speaker 2: the area, but they never unionized a place successfully. Then

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Speaker 2: the Lusty Lady started unionizing two and their own write up,

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Speaker 2: The Lusty Ladies write up of the history is fun quote.

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Speaker 2: Things went reasonably smooth for some time until the summer

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Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety six, when the companies pensioned for hiring

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Speaker 2: intelligent and worldly women began to backfire in the form

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Speaker 2: of a unionization drive. It's a notoriously exploitive game in

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Speaker 2: the adult entertainment world, and it began to be a

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Speaker 2: bit stereotypical, what with the random firings and pay cuts,

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Speaker 2: ambiguous shift policies, and other unsavory business. And I love

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Speaker 2: this the like, oh, it's fine for them until they

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Speaker 2: realized that we're smart. Right, didn't work out great after that, right.

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Speaker 2: And one of the issues that ties in it's very

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Speaker 2: similar to the issue at Sherry's Ranch, the technological development

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Speaker 2: that's happening in the late nineties. The windows to the

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Speaker 2: booth are often or maybe always, one way glass, so

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Speaker 2: it's easy for people to film the dancers without their consent,

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Speaker 2: and with the rise of internet porn, this became a

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Speaker 2: more serious concern than before. And so, yeah, a lot

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Speaker 2: of sex worker unionization and organization has to do with

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Speaker 2: this thing where your image is exploited. On top of

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Speaker 2: you know, you're like not getting paid extra for that,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've always thought that of all the kinds of

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Speaker 3: sex work, dancing would be the hard. That's the one

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Speaker 3: I have not done. I have not done that, And

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Speaker 3: it just seems so hard for all of these things

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Speaker 3: that you're naming.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like I've also not done this kind

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Speaker 2: of work. Well, I've done even less related to those

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Speaker 2: kinds of work, but like it's so hard physically, and

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Speaker 2: then also you're yeah, the constant work of hustling. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the constant like charisma checks. You got to roll over

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Speaker 2: and over it again to try and get twenty bucks

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Speaker 2: out of people.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah, exactly, the athleticism. I mean, I'm just like

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Speaker 3: always so I feel like I'm watching the Olympics when

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Speaker 3: I go to club yeah, which I go to some

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't need to moralize this. I could

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Speaker 3: go to clubs for any reason, but I wrote to

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Speaker 3: support my friends. Yeah, and yeah, it's just like stunning

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Speaker 3: to see what they do on those polls. But then

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Speaker 3: it's always so cold and they you know, have to

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Speaker 3: walk around and play with guys, and it's late at

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Speaker 3: night and it smells like smoke sometimes, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: that's a lot, that's a lot.

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Speaker 2: No, it seems miserable with people are like, oh, easy money,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, sometimes my friends leave with one

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars. Sometimes they leave with one hundred dollars. Sometimes,

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Speaker 2: like I had to pay the house fee and I

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Speaker 2: didn't make any money, right, right, Yeah, and so the

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Speaker 2: Lusty Lady they begin to organize and they work with

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Speaker 2: the SEIU, the Serve Employees International Union, and theoretically, at

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Speaker 2: least according to the IWW write up I read, also

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Speaker 2: they get help from friends of the POD, the Industrial

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Speaker 2: Workers of the World of course. Yeah. It's one of

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Speaker 2: those things where it's like I think the IWW often

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Speaker 2: it doesn't end up. They're like always the bride's maid,

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Speaker 2: never the bride.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, you know, some of the workers are like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I heard were these cool radicals and then they're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: but I want the union that like is large. But

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Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sort about the wobbly involvement

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Speaker 2: in this one where or the other I'm listener, let

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Speaker 2: us know. Yeah, the owners did a bunch of bullshit

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Speaker 2: and they locked the workers out, which is illegal, and

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Speaker 2: the workers picketed and in April nineteen ninety seven they

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Speaker 2: voted to unionize with a vote of fifty seven to

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Speaker 2: fifteen and created the Exotic Dancers Union within the SCIU.

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Speaker 2: And they were part of a vibrant sex workers organizing

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Speaker 2: scene in the city. It wasn't just this like like

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Speaker 2: pickms or something, you know, where they're like, oh, we're

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Speaker 2: unionized and everyone else is like doing bad stuff. They

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Speaker 2: are like they had learned from other people doing all

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Speaker 2: of this shit. They like talked constantly about how like

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00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 2: they're working with different people on this. M h And

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Speaker 2: some of the Lusty Ladies went to other venues to

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Speaker 2: try and organize, and they went as like salts where

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Speaker 2: you go and get a job at a place specifically

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Speaker 2: to try and unionize.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: A club called the Regal show World was on the

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00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 2: verge of unionization, but then anti union lawyers were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we can just literally shut the entire place down and

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Speaker 2: put it under new ownership and then you have to

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Speaker 2: like start all over again. In San Diego. This is

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Speaker 2: the one that I found like one line about in

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Speaker 2: San Diego Pacers Showgirls International did manage to unionize in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, but the union was destroyed in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety six and they it was like decertified. That's all

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Speaker 2: I've found about it, even though I've read all this

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Speaker 2: stuff that's like the Lusty Lady the first organized trip club,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, theoretically, there's this one three years

348
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,639
Speaker 2: earlier that I found one.

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Speaker 3: Sentence about that's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always skeptical of any time I read something

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00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,360
Speaker 2: that's like the first blah blah blah, right, like even

352
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,480
Speaker 2: like I was like talking a porner earlierly, the first

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Speaker 2: hardcore porn. I'm like, man, I bet the first person

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Speaker 2: who made a camera made hardcore porn. Right after the

355
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 2: Pacers Girls had their union busted, the Lusty Lady kept

356
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Speaker 2: the flame alive. But if you want to keep the

357
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Speaker 2: flame alive, are we sponsored by anyone that does that?

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Speaker 4: I hope?

359
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 2: So all right, Well, I don't know whatever comes next

360
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,040
Speaker 2: is really good for sex. I'll just say that on

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Speaker 2: the record. Oh god, I actually thought about that. No,

362
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 2: don't assume that. And we're back. Wow, thank you, thank you.

363
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 2: I really I wasn't doing so good first episode, you know,

364
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Speaker 2: brought it back. They thought they had us in the

365
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Speaker 2: first half.

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Speaker 4: But that's what we call a hill Mary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So they unionized, and being unionized was,

368
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 2: to put it, really simply good. It was better in

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00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,159
Speaker 2: every appreciable way. It was better even from a pure

370
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,639
Speaker 2: the club. It's high water mark. It started to go

371
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,680
Speaker 2: down a little bit because of the Internet. It's high

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00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,400
Speaker 2: water mark was a year after unionization nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 2: What is high water what is oh so like? Sorry?

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00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,280
Speaker 2: The year they brought in the most moneys from a

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00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 2: pure capitalist point of view. Sorry, yeah, I.

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00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 3: Don't know that capitalist terminology.

377
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 2: You must look be I am well, I mean it

378
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 2: could be high water mark of any Yeah, yeah, I

379
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 2: got checked.

380
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,959
Speaker 3: I don't know those bourgeois terms.

381
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I bet the two of us are the

382
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 2: only people who are listening to this who could spell bourgeois.

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00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 3: No, I cannot. I'm all wrong all the time, all

384
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 3: the time. I think I have like teeny tiny mild dyslexia.

385
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,400
Speaker 2: I think it's bo urge iOS, but it might be ois. Fuck.

386
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 3: What's the other one? You made a good tweet about

387
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 3: this bourgeois and for the Marxists, and then what can't

388
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 3: we spell hierarchy? Hierarchy? Yeah?

389
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally Yeah. I once made this pin that I

390
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 2: deeply regretted. Actually some caught me. I made this pin, well,

391
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,959
Speaker 2: one inch pin. I had a like a little drawing

392
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 2: from the nineteenth century of a man in a machine

393
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 2: gun nest or whatever, and it says death of the

394
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 2: capitalist bourgeoisie. I'm really original. What everyone's always saying about me.

395
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 2: But I had spelled bourgeoisie wrong in a way that

396
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 2: spell check thought was correct because I spelled it with

397
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 2: just an e at the end, not an ie, which

398
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 2: meant death to the rich women.

399
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 3: I mean, it's complicated.

400
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, maybe it was a transman behind the machine gun.

401
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, So anyway, they get unionized. A

402
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,479
Speaker 2: black feminist author named Chavn Brooks was one of the

403
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 2: only black women working there at the time. Black women

404
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 2: had to work in the private booth section of the place,

405
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 2: and she complained to management and they told her black

406
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 2: women don't bring it as much money, so she went

407
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 2: through the union to complain against racial discrimination, and the

408
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 2: club started hiring way way more black women and again

409
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 2: ties into the high water mark. So whatever, m fuck y'all.

410
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,719
Speaker 2: But porn theaters and peep shows were in trouble by

411
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 2: the end of the nineties with the rise of internet pornography,

412
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,479
Speaker 2: and then in nineteen ninety eight or two thousand and one,

413
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 2: depending on which source you read, because why would books

414
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 2: agree with each other, our villain of the week, Roger Forbes,

415
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 2: bought the building it was in and became their new landlord.

416
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 3: Can I jump in. Yeah please, Yes, the rise of

417
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 3: internet porn, but also so much of the end of

418
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,439
Speaker 3: peep show, strip club kind of culture. And this is

419
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 3: really true in New York is gentrification and tech is

420
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 3: so much a part of that. And Sam Delaney, which

421
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 3: is maybe a name you know from your sci fi land,

422
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: but he's also like an incredible culture critic and his

423
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 3: book Times Square Red, Times Square Blue talks about like

424
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 3: the desecration of the sex culture in Times Square with.

425
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 2: That's the one where one of the most prominent science

426
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: fiction officer of twentieth century admitted to having sucked hundreds

427
00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 2: of dicks.

428
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, Yeah, yes, I saw.

429
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: I'm reading an excerpt from this. This is one of

430
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 2: the high points of my like fandom.

431
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 3: Incredible, Yeah, and like the magic of that and yeah,

432
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 3: like the he talks about contact, which you know, this

433
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 3: this notion of like people being in the world together

434
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 3: instead of like alienated on the tech machines. And so

435
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 3: just to like another real quick tidbit about this. Yeah,

436
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 3: another group that was really prominent in New York trying

437
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 3: to get all of like peep shows and strip clubs

438
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 3: and porn theaters shut down were the anti sporn feminists

439
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 3: of the eighties. They went by the name Women Against

440
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 3: Pornography aka WOP for people who remember the hit song

441
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 3: what as Pussy. It's just a fun little little, uh

442
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 3: little tidbit purpose I don't know, I mean, maybe that'd.

443
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 2: Be cool, I hope.

444
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 3: So so that's just a fun thing to read in

445
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 3: the history books and just keep saying WOP for this

446
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: group that is like detests sex in so many ways anyway,

447
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 3: so you know, just just to name like yeah, I

448
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 3: mean yeah, internet porn, but also like thinking about who

449
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 3: are the tech companies profiting off of internet porn and

450
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 3: who is really doing the bad stuff in the world.

451
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 3: And it's like the people shutting down the humans having

452
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 3: you know, I don't.

453
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 2: Know, no, no. This is one of the things that

454
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 2: was named by some of the workers was that gentrifications

455
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: fucking with this club. Rich men were moving to town

456
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 2: and wanted like an elite experience and not a beautiful,

457
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 2: strange dive bar keep show, you know. And this guy,

458
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 2: Roger Forbes is also part of the destruction of this

459
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: air of culture because he is one of the founders,

460
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: one of the three founders of Deja Vu, which is

461
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: the largest strip club chain in the world that currently

462
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: operates more than two hundred clubs under a bunch of

463
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 2: different names. And they pioneer, I mean, honestly, some of

464
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 2: what I've read says that, like the modern strip club

465
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 2: going back to the seventies kind of comes from their work,

466
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 2: less him but one of the other founders. But they

467
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: pioneer treating workers like shit. That's like their fucking thing.

468
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: They're like, well, if we get a monopoly and treat

469
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 2: workers like shit, And that's the guy who buys their

470
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: building in nineteen ninety eight or two thousand and one,

471
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: so it's not looking good for him. He then more

472
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: than doubles their rent. It's like twelve thousand dollars a

473
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 2: month or something, thirteen thousand dollars a month or something

474
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 2: at this point. But they they keep going for several years,

475
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: and then in two thousand and three, the owners of

476
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: the Lusty Lady were like, fuck it, we give up.

477
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: There's no profit in this industry anymore. And the workers

478
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: themselves were like, we think there is. We want to

479
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: keep going, and so they bought it from the owners,

480
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 2: not the building but the business for four hundred thousand dollars.

481
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: And interestingly, this is one of the main ways that

482
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 2: businesses go cooperative. The owners decide that they want to sell,

483
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 2: and if they're not like garbage people, when the workers

484
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: are like you sell to us, the owners are like, well,

485
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: I like work with you and like you, so yeah, sure, yeah,

486
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: you know, And there's this whole like in a cooperative movement,

487
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: there was this hope for like a silver tsunami as

488
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 2: all the boomers started selling their businesses as they retired

489
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: because their kids didn't want them or whatever. To get

490
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 2: people to sell to their workers. Right now, there are

491
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: various cooperative finance organizations that can help people get the

492
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: capital to buy from owners and to work with new

493
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: worker owners about how to run a successful business. That

494
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 2: infrastructure was less built up in two thousand and three

495
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 2: as best as I can tell. Yeah, but San Francisco

496
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: is San Francisco. So a few other cooperatives helped them

497
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: sort everything out, including there's a worker owned sex toy

498
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 2: shop called Good Vibrations, so they're like, yeah, of course

499
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: we'll help you. But also Rainbow Cooperative Grocery shout out

500
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: to the hippies. I assume I've probably even been there,

501
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 2: but I just assume it's called Rainbow Grocery and it's cooperative. Yeah,

502
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: their hippies.

503
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 3: It's fine, for sure. They have an excellent, amazing bulk section,

504
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 3: I'm sure.

505
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and you can probably get nutritional and call

506
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: it cornmeal. Oh I mean, but you would do that

507
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 2: at co op. Yeah, no, you do that elsewhere. So

508
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 2: I bet you didn't know this. Selling sex makes it

509
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: really hard to deal with traditional financial institutions. Really, yeah,

510
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: I've discovered this uniquely. This is a thing that people

511
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: have been complaining about for a long time now, because

512
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: it's a really major problem. That is why I'm making

513
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: a joke of it. There's a reason organized crime is

514
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: involved in the sex industry, even the legal sex industry,

515
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 2: because of bullshit moral nonsense about how you can get

516
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 2: locked out of credit card transactions for doing perfectly legal

517
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 2: business like pornography. So in the end, it was the

518
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: previous owners who agreed to finance the buyout. Basically, I

519
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: believe that they couldn't find anyone to finance the buyout,

520
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: and the owners were like, fine, give it to us

521
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: some installments. And it wasn't just the dancers who bought

522
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: the place. Of course, keep Show has janitors and technicians

523
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 2: and I believe the janitors and counterstaff were like one

524
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: and the same people. It's very gender divided in that

525
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: the counter staff janitors were men and the dancers were women.

526
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 2: And they all join a cooperative which is called looking

527
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: Glass Collective, at least according to a single place I

528
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: could find that reference and nowhere else. But they probably

529
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: have a legal institution called looking Glass Collective that they create.

530
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 2: And if the union was good for workplace conditions, worker

531
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 2: ownership was amazing. I found a quote that I forgot

532
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: to put in the script that was someone being like

533
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 2: I have died and gone to hooker Heaven. One dancer

534
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: Kathy said about it, quote, all of the things that

535
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: felt oppressive about sex work vanished when you stepped through

536
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: the doors of the Lusty. You know how much you

537
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 2: were getting what you were doing, and you had face

538
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: to face contact with other women. You were clear on

539
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 2: the expectations, You're clear on what can get you fired,

540
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: You're clear on what can get you hired, what the

541
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 2: boundaries are between you and the customers.

542
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 3: That sounds amazing.

543
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another dancer, Barana said, quote, after a few weeks

544
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: at the Lusty, when I walked down the street, I

545
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: felt less threatened by the men talking shit to me,

546
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 2: my posture changed. If it wasn't liberating, it was certainly uplifting.

547
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 2: Who would have expected such from a peep show?

548
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: Not me?

549
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: Then again, to dismiss the idea that vulgarity and uplift

550
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: can coexist side by side is to deny the degenerate

551
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 2: magic of San Francisco.

552
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I literally want to sob enjoy. What

553
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: a beautiful sentiment.

554
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh and just like that, like my posture changed. Yeah,

555
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: it's such a like as three words and you're like, yeah,

556
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: I know what that means.

557
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: You know, like, oh, I love that, And it's just

558
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: such a true I mean, who sex workers are just

559
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: we are not a monolith, and there are shitty people

560
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: who do sex work and you know, et cetera. But

561
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 3: like the sex work organizing community, sex workers you know,

562
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: who are part of radical political projects are truly like

563
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 3: the best people I know. So it's just I feel

564
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: like I can relate to that feeling of just being

565
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: around spaces where sex workers are being badass and it's amazing.

566
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 2: I love that sometimes, Like I don't have this with

567
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: sex workers, but I look at things from like twenty

568
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: thirty years ago, and I'm like, oh, fuck my people,

569
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: you know exactly, and like like watching you experience that

570
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: is so nice, right, You're like you're like we could

571
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: drop you in there and you would be like, hey,

572
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: what's up? Yes, you know, oh, because you have like

573
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: similar understandings and like like.

574
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: It's just it's really beautiful.

575
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. On their own site, the workers wrote about themselves

576
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: there's it's long gone, but it's on archive dot org. Quote.

577
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: It's not all roses. There are decisions to make and

578
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: votes to count and seemingly endless meetings and discussions to

579
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: be had. If we want something done Employee Manual's new

580
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: carpet a soda machine, we have to do it ourselves.

581
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: But the beauty is we do somehow. The decision gets

582
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: made and the new idea gets implemented, and we get

583
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: the new carpet. We figure out the problem, and we

584
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: move on to tackle the next one. We fight like siblings,

585
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: and when the smoke clears, we realize how lucky we

586
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: are to be fighting over hopes and dreams and plans

587
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: for a business that is actually ours.

588
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 3: Beautiful Yeah, and.

589
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I've been in the like you fight

590
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: like siblings is such a good way to describe collective organizing. Yeah,

591
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: you know, because no one fights like siblings, you draw.

592
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: I would never.

593
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 3: I'm an only child, so I can only guess what

594
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: that's like. But I think I get it.

595
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: My sibling and I, who I fought with the most,

596
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: are real close. Now we were not. I'll just go

597
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: with that. There's the idea of I forget what's called.

598
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: But two cultures will decide to become exactly the opposite

599
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 2: of each other. They're like, I'm not doing what that

600
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: guy does. That is literally why I don't know musical theater.

601
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you just hurt yourself with that one.

602
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: I absolutely did. This is to my detriment how much

603
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: I fought with my sibling, who I don't think listens

604
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: to this, but if you do, high anyway, for better

605
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: or worse. They remain unionized through the SEIU after they

606
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: all become owners, and this is messy worker cooperatives and

607
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: labor unions. While they're not wholly incompatible, they struggle to

608
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: share the same room sometimes and not in a sibling way,

609
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: but in a literally like we're both trying to do

610
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: the same thing in very different ways. Yeah, because they're

611
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: both about taking power, but labor unions are on some

612
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 2: level kind of antagonistic to the owners. It is collective

613
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: bargaining of the employees, but when the employees are also

614
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: the owners. And some work are cooperatives, not all employees

615
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: or owners. A lot of worker cooperatives, Like most people

616
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: are owners, but some people are owner track jobs, but

617
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: they're you know, you got to work there for a

618
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: couple of years or six months or whatever it is.

619
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: And then like I used to wash dishes at a

620
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 2: worker owned restaurant in Baltimore called Red Emmas, but I

621
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: just went as a sub. I did not want to

622
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: go to meetings. I did not want a regular schedule.

623
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: I wanted to go in, sit in the dish pit

624
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: and wash dishes after place named after Emma Goldmand and

625
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 2: get paid and it ruled.

626
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, it's the hard part. Like for the

627
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 3: people who don't want the sort of responsibility of being

628
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: a worker owner, that could be cool, but then people

629
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: who do and are denied that it can get it

630
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: can get ugly. I have heard about.

631
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: This absolutely, and so it's complicated, and so like some

632
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: places will have unions for their non owners, right, and

633
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: like unions have unions, right, Oh yeah, like the staff

634
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: of the union might be unionized through a different union.

635
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: It's complicated, it is.

636
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: I've dated a lot of union organizers, some who went

637
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: from staff to you know, boss for all intents and purposes,

638
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: and it's yeah, a lot of existential ethical conundrums.

639
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: I believe it. Yeah, And the Lusty Lady had a

640
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: real hard existential conundrum around being a business that is unionized,

641
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: worker owned, and in a world based on patriarch and capitalism.

642
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: So the worker owners, they elect a board of directors

643
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: from themselves, and then that board of directors signs the

644
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: union contract every year. But when employees are also owners,

645
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 2: you get fights. And the lusty Lady had a labor dispute.

646
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: That's fun alliteration, and it just makes me sad. This

647
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: is the sad part of the story. But also all

648
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 2: of the news about this is like salacious little bit,

649
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: even if it's not really trying to be so. It

650
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: like I think, is exaggerating the level of conflict that happened,

651
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: because they absolutely survive this, but there's not as many

652
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: like follow up articles. The news is never like, oh,

653
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: the problem resolved itself and everyone's good. Now they don't

654
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: bother writing that article, you know, right, Okay, So the

655
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: Lusty Lady had a reputation of hiring more diverse performers

656
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 2: than the average peep show. It was like where you

657
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: go and like more people are tattooed, right, Like in

658
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: clubs this is a big issue where like, you know,

659
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,479
Speaker 2: some places hire women who are only white and thin

660
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 2: with no tattoos, and often even only blonde or willing

661
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: to wear a blonde wig, and other places aren't like that.

662
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: Lusty Lady had a reputation for diverse performers, including women

663
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 2: of color, people with tattoos, and larger women, and occasionally

664
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: the club would do BBW Knights Big Beautiful Women Nights.

665
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: All of the performers on stage at any given time

666
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: were larger, and occasionally customers would complain about it. Boo yeah,

667
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: most or maybe all of the dancers were women, and

668
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: most or maybe all of the counter staff slash janitors

669
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: were men. One of the counterstaff guys collected some customer

670
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: complaints about larger dancers after a BBW night and sent

671
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 2: it what he was supposed to be a confidential email

672
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: to the board, basically saying, like we're losing customers, and

673
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 2: everyone's pay is tied to the success of the business

674
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: since they are all owners, and so there's this terrible

675
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: incentive to police themselves and it comes to a head,

676
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: but again in a way that I think is played up.

677
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: The email itself was probably rude and or bigoted, but

678
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: I haven't read it. I've read different outlets that present

679
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 2: it in different ways and use selective quotes with different

680
00:35:53,760 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: biases around it. It's fun, but the email was probably rude. Yeah,

681
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: So one of the dancers on the elected board who

682
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: gets this email is really fucking pissed off by it, right,

683
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: you know. It's repeating all of these like pretty hateful

684
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 2: things that the customers have said. And so the person

685
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: on the board prints out the email and puts it

686
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 2: in the dressing room for all the dancers to see,

687
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 2: including the ones who are being attacked in the customer complaints,

688
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: and this set off a massive conflict. A board member

689
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 2: said to the IWW quote. Everyone flipped out, people were

690
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: crying in the dressing room, and the mail staffer got ostracized.

691
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: It's great what we at Lusty think the standards of

692
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: beauty are, but the reality is we're in the adult

693
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: entertainment business, and this is like one of the positions

694
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: being offered, right, that's just like really fucks with folks.

695
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: Some folks want to fire the larger dancers. Others want

696
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: to fire the counter staff guy. Some wanted to fire

697
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: the woman from the board who printed out the confidential email.

698
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: And everything is reporting this really salaciously, and I really

699
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: struggle to figure out what the fuck happened here. In

700
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: the end, the board member was fired. Both people were suspended,

701
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: one for sending an email and one for being like, hey,

702
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: you weren't supposed to print that out and put it

703
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: in the dressing room. The counter guy was eventually offered

704
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 2: his job back, but he didn't take it, and the

705
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: board member was fired went to the union and was like,

706
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: I have been fired unjustly and basically made it a

707
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: labor issue. But also the counter guy tried to make

708
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: it a labor issue through the union, even though he

709
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: was actually anti union, but not in the way of

710
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: like I hate unions, but I what are we doing here?

711
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 2: We're all the owners. Yeah, the National Labor's Relations Board

712
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: agreed with that man, not necessarily about his position, but

713
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: they basically were like, you're an owner. None of this

714
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: applies to you, and it begs the question, and it

715
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: begs the question there what is the union doing there

716
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: at all? But so there's this push to deunionize, but

717
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: it gets like gendered where the men want to deunionize,

718
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: the counter staff want to deunionize. But I think that

719
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 2: this is played up because there's no follow up reporting

720
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: that I was ever able to find. And they survive

721
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 2: this conflict, they keep going. There are men and women

722
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 2: who work at this place and our owners together. There

723
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: is like I'm sure there's informal hierarchies going on with

724
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 2: all of it, right, but there's like everyone is level

725
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: in this worker own business. And yeah, so I tend

726
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: to think that that was a bit of hype. Yeah,

727
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I wasn't there, and it just

728
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: makes me sad. The reason I bring it up is

729
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: because it makes me sad. It makes me sad that

730
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: you like, whenever I want to like paint the utopianism

731
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 2: of worker ownership, like they're operating within capitalism and patriarchy. Yeah,

732
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: and like I don't know.

733
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: And those things, you know, and those interpersonal conflicts will

734
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: also happen even if we get to the most utopic

735
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 3: conditions possible. I mean, humans are going to have conflict,

736
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 3: but yeah, no, that's very real. It's always I mean,

737
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: the world in this moment is certainly helping me remember

738
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 3: that there are really really really bad men out there.

739
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 3: And obviously I know that, but like what's interesting is

740
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 3: that my experience and sex work and my algorithms and

741
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 3: my sex worker organizing community, like it is to me

742
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 3: it's evident that there are people who do not like

743
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 3: I see the most diversity in you know, I'm not

744
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 3: on Twitter anymore, thank goodness, but like sex work, Twitter

745
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 3: used to be like amazing, just like a delight, yeah,

746
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: and it was the most most body diversity, racial diversity

747
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 3: like ever and you would you know, things you would

748
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 3: never see in Hollywood and people like really famous with

749
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 3: huge followings and people who love them, and it to

750
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 3: me it was like this is evidence that this like

751
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: normative standard of beauty is actually like not that entrenched

752
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: and like people actually like different things and that is

753
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 3: my experience and those are my algorithms and and like

754
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 3: yeah there are like really normative horrible maga shitty yeah,

755
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: people of all class levels.

756
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: But you know, no totally and like one of the

757
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 2: articles that I read cited another article. I couldn't find

758
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: that then, because again I'm looking at news from twenty

759
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 2: years ago, but that says that the numbers of what

760
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 2: they brought in month to month was like not really

761
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: affected by any of this, yeah, And so like, yeah,

762
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: a bunch of guys stormed out and were like, I

763
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 2: don't like this, and everyone was worried it would affect

764
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: their bottom line. It doesn't look like.

765
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 3: It did, okay, yeah, yeah, but.

766
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 2: I don't know. And then even if it did, what

767
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 2: do you do about that?

768
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 3: Right?

769
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: And that's like up to y'all is a culture and workers,

770
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, And I certainly don't think you fire

771
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: people for it. You just make less money. I don't know, right.

772
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: Well, And that's the other thing, Like the same thing

773
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: would happen in like the restaurant industry. You know, there's

774
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: like the I don't know if there's any Girls watchers.

775
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: I know you're not supposed to, like Leana Dunnam is

776
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: so full of problems, but there was a great like

777
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 3: bit on like one of the characters. They were like, oh,

778
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 3: you could totally get a pretty person job.

779
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: There's a show called Girls. That's what I've learned great,

780
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 2: ye okay.

781
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 3: And the character they were like, you could get a

782
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,959
Speaker 3: pretty person job like a hostess, and you know that's

783
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: just like that stuff exists like lookism, and that exists

784
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 3: literally in everywhere, and so yeah, just another note of

785
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: you know, sex work is not always so exceptional in

786
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: the ways that bodies are scrutinized. There's just like more

787
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 3: transparency about it, and sometimes that's really refreshing, you know,

788
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 3: compared to when you were being scrutinized by a professor

789
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 3: when you're a young professor and being asked why dress

790
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 3: in particular ways which I might be sharing from experience.

791
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: So you know, no, you're right, like something about it's

792
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 2: just being blunt where you're like, we sell sex. We

793
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 2: have to be able to sell sex, so you have

794
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 2: to be sexy enough to sell We have to find

795
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: who the audience for you to sell sex to is,

796
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: you know, like it is right, yeah, yeah, but do

797
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: you know who is willing to sell you anything?

798
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 3: The people who are going to advertise to your listeners.

799
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: Right now, absolutely, they don't care as long as you

800
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: have money or don't have money, depending on they might

801
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 2: be trying to stop you from having money if they anyway,

802
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: here's ads. You can listen to them or not enter back.

803
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 2: So the other thing I think is worth noting about this,

804
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 2: like you know, wacky diverse group. They lasted longer than

805
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 2: other people doing this right. Their business was a failed

806
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 2: business as a standard business, and then made it ten

807
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: years further into gentrification and internetification of the city. They

808
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 2: outlasted the other lusty lady in Seattle that closed its

809
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: doors in twenty ten. And there's actually do you a

810
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: specific worker owned businesses? People present them as like, oh,

811
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's probably not as profitable. If it's

812
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 2: done right, it's literally more profitable because you just don't

813
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: have another group taking all your money away from you. Right,

814
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: There isn't an owner who siphons up your money with

815
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: a vacuum cleaner at the end of the day. I

816
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 2: think that's how Marx described it. And the other thing

817
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 2: is that worker owned businesses are more resilient in hard

818
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: times because like during twenty twenty I worked with Steed Comments,

819
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: I talked about this all the time as a cooperative

820
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: finance organization, and they worked with a ton of worker

821
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: owned restaurants and cafes and restaurants and cafes died like

822
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: the plague during twenty twenty and never returned. And during

823
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: the year or so of twenty twenty, not a single

824
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: one of these places closed for good because they were

825
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: worker owned, so they were more resilient because they could

826
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: sit around and say, like, all right, who are we

827
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: going to lay off of ourselves? Right, and they could

828
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: collect actively make these decisions, being like who can afford

829
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: to collect unemployment instead of working for the next like

830
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: six months, you know, and like just literally were able

831
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 2: to respond to things better. And so it doesn't surprise

832
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 2: me that they held on so long.

833
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

834
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: As for why they closed, they closed in twenty thirteen.

835
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 2: The Sex and poor An economies really had changed fundamentally

836
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: in the twenty first century. The economy of the city

837
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: had changed fundamentally, the area of the neighborhood had changed fundamentally.

838
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: But as far as I can tell, the reason they

839
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: closed their doors is because of monopoly capitalism.

840
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 3: Wow, it's every time.

841
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you address it up however you want. They

842
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 2: closed because their fucking landlord was Roger Forbes. Because they

843
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: collectively owned their business but not their building. Yeah, the

844
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: asshole who was monopolizing all the strip clubs in the city,

845
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: including the one right next door, and he claims up

846
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: and down. He has all these interviews with him where

847
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, no, I didn't I didn't close them.

848
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: They just couldn't pay their rent, right, And they're like, yeah,

849
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: like eight thousand dollars more a week are no longer

850
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: going to your clubs if they're going here?

851
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: Right?

852
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 2: Like right? He refused to renew their lease in twenty thirteen,

853
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: or to put it really bluntly, Tora, a dancer at

854
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: the Lusty Lady, told The New York Times, quote, our

855
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: landlord is a dildo and didn't want to negotiate.

856
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 3: That just makes me think of another amazing sex work

857
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 3: adjacent establishment called the smitt Kitten in Minneapolis, and they

858
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 3: threw dildos at ice agents or provided the dildos. I

859
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 3: will not I am saying anything on the record. I

860
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: just know that maybe some dildos might have come from

861
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: the smitt Kitten.

862
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

863
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 3: Somehow those dildos ended up near ice agents.

864
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 2: Projected in some ways by the wind, probably by the wind.

865
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, and like oops.

866
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: Oops, that's the one that was organizing mutual laid out

867
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 2: of it, right, Yeah, Yeah, they're the best God bless.

868
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: Anyway, So this landlord is a dildo. Probably maybe if

869
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: the wind projected dildos towards him, that would be okay too.

870
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. I actually couldn't even figure out whether he's alive.

871
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: The problem is that there's a billionaire with his name mmm,

872
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: and someone died I believe last year. Who is the

873
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: right age to have been him? But I'm not one

874
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: hundred percent certain, Which is funny though, because there's a

875
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 2: plenty written about him. He is one of the it

876
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: didn't not have been the script, but a Seattle weekly

877
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 2: paper has like all of these like real choice quotes

878
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: about what a piece of shit this man is. Like

879
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 2: he is like nationally known as a piece of shit

880
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: as compared to if you read it, you're like, oh,

881
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: our landlord, you know, and you're like, ah, the landlord,

882
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: Like no, the man monopolizing sex work is their landlord,

883
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 2: and they don't work for him. I'm sure he has

884
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 2: a problem with that.

885
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

886
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 2: They decided to go out and style and they held

887
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: themselves a funeral parade throughout the city and it it's

888
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 2: like kind of a little bit of Alaska of old

889
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: San Francisco in a way. Mmm, and now there's a

890
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 2: historical marker in front of the building marking it as

891
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:12,919
Speaker 2: the nation's first unionized worker owned peep show. It took

892
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 2: ten years, but another group picked up the torch once

893
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 2: again when the dancers. Have you heard of the star

894
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 2: Garden topless dive bar in Los Angeles?

895
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 3: I have not, Or maybe I've heard of it, but

896
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 3: not I've not been, or nor do I know a lot?

897
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah I have, fuck you, the Stargarden topless dive bar

898
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, which is a good name. I appreciate

899
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 2: a five word name for an establishment. Yeah, they voted

900
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 2: in I believe twenty twenty three, they voted unanimously to

901
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: unionize with the Actors Equity Association, a fifty thousand members

902
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 2: strong labor union for stage actors. Because one of the

903
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: things that sex workers run into is like literally like

904
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 2: who will unionize us? Because the same is it's hard

905
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: to get a credit card processing company to run your shit.

906
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: You know, the precarious labor is often ignored by traditional

907
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: labor unions. That said, SEIU, traditional labor union, Actors Actory Association,

908
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: traditional labor union. I'm not coming for big labor here.

909
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: When I talk this shit, you know, yeah, it was

910
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,439
Speaker 2: easy to convince the workers to unionize, but it wasn't

911
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: easy to get their demands met by their owners. The

912
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 2: campaign was more than a year long. It started, like

913
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: so many of these things do, when inadequate pay was

914
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 2: coupled with dangerous working conditions. In this case, it started

915
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: with security guards who consistently failed to protect dancers from customers,

916
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: which is a common complaint among dancers. There's this theory

917
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 2: that is I think true at some clubs that security

918
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: guards exist to protect the dancers from the customers. In practice,

919
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: security guards are often there to keep the customers happy,

920
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: and so they literally allow sexual assault to happen on

921
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,399
Speaker 2: their watch on a regular base. Us, right, because that's

922
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 2: the like when people are like, oh, you know, they

923
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 2: weren't really protecting us, like yeah, from crime, like from

924
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 2: like not the crime whatever, from like bad things happening,

925
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 2: you know, m hm. And so they started picketing. The

926
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 2: dancers did, and I think they didn't even start as

927
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: all like we want a union picket. I think they

928
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 2: were like, this is an unsafe working environment, we want

929
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 2: these security guards gone picket. But instead of firing security guards,

930
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 2: the company fired twelve dancers dancers made the picketing into

931
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 2: a big show. So I did you follow this as

932
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 2: what is happening? Mm hmmm, that's cool. What did you see?

933
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: I'm curious about it because I I was just reading

934
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: about it today and yesterday.

935
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: It was like more of like a word of mouth

936
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: kind of thing as opposed to like formal like reporting

937
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: on it. But it was just it was just like

938
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: a really cool like all of us are going to

939
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 1: just stand up together and have like these wild different

940
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: like costuming yeah, and like.

941
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 4: I don't know, just different.

942
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: They had theme nights. That's the word.

943
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 4: I was trying to think of the word theme. I

944
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 4: couldn't come from.

945
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 2: Like Halloween costume night.

946
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

947
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: And you know there was like this big story because

948
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: a band of whose name I'm forgetting Kate.

949
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: Rage against the Machine, Tomrella tom Morello showed up.

950
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah cute.

951
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 3: Tom Morella is always down for a good ticket line.

952
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 3: And I think he'd been to some other like strip

953
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 3: club related things earlier than this too. Yeah.

954
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to get too excited because I do

955
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: know how this ends.

956
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 2: Wait, no, they end up with the union, Oh they win?

957
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: I think? Wait? Is there more news that I don't know?

958
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 1: I thought that the club shut down.

959
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 2: Oh it did for nine months.

960
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 4: Okay, Oh I don't know the update.

961
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: Yees, because I moved out of Los Angeles and all

962
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: the word of mouth went away.

963
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 2: No, no, that makes sense.

964
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 4: Okay. Oh I'm excited. Oh cool people who did cool stuff.

965
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 4: I'm not up behind the bastards. This is not going

966
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 4: to end badly.

967
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 2: I believe it's still open. This might be one of

968
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 2: those things where.

969
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: It's like I got scared because it says closed, but

970
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 3: it says closed opens at eight pm.

971
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they start picketing. They turned the whole picketing

972
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: into a big show and they're like, yeah, customers, you

973
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 2: could go inside, or you can party with us out here.

974
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 2: What the fuck are you doing going in there? And

975
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 2: they have like costume nights and shit. Tom Morello from

976
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: fucking Rage Against the Machine is there, like posing in

977
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 2: every goddamn photo. I mean, he's actually a really genuine

978
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: man as far as I can tell.

979
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 3: I've met him. No big deal. Oh nice, Yeah, he's nice.

980
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 3: He he He just showed up then when like Aunt's

981
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 3: early ant, I wore stuff and I was in Chicago,

982
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: and so he was always in Chicago. Yeah, being part

983
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 3: of things.

984
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, like just like genuinely genuine, and they build

985
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 2: up a whole social media platform and they did this

986
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:55,959
Speaker 2: word of mouth thing. There wasn't a lot of press

987
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: around it, and rather than let the workers unionize, club

988
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: shut down and filed for bankruptcy.

989
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 4: This is where I left off.

990
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 2: And then after nine months, like a baby, they gave up,

991
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 2: allowed the union, rehired the fired workers, and fired the

992
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 2: and they still tried to fuck over everyone there was

993
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: because they're still I mean, it's still the same owners, right.

994
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 2: This is the reason why I like worker ownership even more,

995
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 2: and I like unions, but like, fuck yeah, unions, you know,

996
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 2: we take what we get and we can fight. We

997
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 2: fight for what we can get. And when they reopened,

998
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 2: they were like, how can we fuck everyone over? Because

999
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 2: it's like sex work, like any industry, they're just the

1000
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 2: owners are just trying to figure how to weasel every

1001
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 2: dollar out of here, right, and so if they can't

1002
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 2: do it in the traditional ways, they're like, all right,

1003
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:50,240
Speaker 2: we're going cashless, adding a forty dollars cover charge at door,

1004
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 2: removing the ATMs. We're making sure that you don't get

1005
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 2: any money that you're not reporting to us. You know,

1006
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: they want to control everything. The union workers, though, got

1007
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 2: at least the cover charge lowered. I don't know what too,

1008
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 2: and my updates are a couple of years old, but

1009
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 2: as of what I was trying to check, they are

1010
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 2: the only unionized strip club in the United States right now.

1011
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 3: Shout out to them.

1012
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, good for them.

1013
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: Oh there's a place that calls itself Dive Barnet's name,

1014
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 2: and there's really good food. And now I'm hungry. Yeah,

1015
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 2: it didn't even work. I try to eat before I record.

1016
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: I'm just always hungry after recording. Anyway, that's the episode.

1017
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 2: That's the Lusty Lady and several other attempts to organize

1018
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: and successful and unsuccessful, and lots of stuff.

1019
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 3: That's really beautiful history about some really awesome people. I'm

1020
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 3: so glad to know more of those details.

1021
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 2: How do people react when you teach this in a class? Like,

1022
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 2: how do people take it?

1023
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah? Different ways? You know, it's changed. So I've been

1024
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: teaching for well over a decade, like fifteen years or something,

1025
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 3: which I don't know how that happened, but the dialectics. Sorry, no,

1026
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 3: that's that's how we should you know, we should spread

1027
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 3: that word as in nonsense ways and confuse people even more. Yeah,

1028
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,720
Speaker 3: it's been really confronting to me as like a third

1029
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 3: wave feminist raised. You know, sex positive was like the

1030
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 3: name of the game sort of in that era of

1031
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 3: the nineties early two thousands, and I think part of

1032
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 3: that was because I didn't grow up with porn available

1033
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 3: to me. Apparently some millennials found it, but I just

1034
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 3: like I didn't, so it wasn't really a threat to

1035
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 3: my childhood. I feel like the ways that some gen

1036
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 3: Z students talk about it, as Billie Eilish sort of

1037
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 3: famously came out and said, like porn ruined her relationship

1038
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 3: with sex for you know, after she was exposed to

1039
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 3: it for too soon, and she's I think she's okay.

1040
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 2: Now, Like she's not swere fece, She's just is honest

1041
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 2: about her own experience.

1042
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 3: Yea, and so and that was the hard part because

1043
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 3: she's not as far as I can tell, she's not swarf.

1044
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 3: And so I was like, oh, I have to like

1045
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 3: take this seriously. And I you know, I've definitely had

1046
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 3: students and they're very worried about you know, deep fakes

1047
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 3: and all these things, but this is always the thing.

1048
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 3: It's like deep fakes and non consensual revenge porn. Like

1049
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 3: that's that's like different from the question of sex work,

1050
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 3: where you know, and all of these sort of murky areas.

1051
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 3: But it's just really it's tricky because there is sexual

1052
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 3: violence is real, and problems with non consensual porn is real,

1053
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: and it's just really tricky to hold those multiple truths,

1054
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 3: as we talked about earlier. So yeah, I've I think

1055
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 3: whereas earlier when I was teaching, when I was a

1056
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 3: millennial teaching other millennial students, I feel like people were

1057
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 3: kind of more shrug shoulders about it. And although I

1058
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 3: did teach, you know, at a very Catholic, like more

1059
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 3: conservative school for a little bit, and it was I

1060
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 3: think I kind of like handled it differently when I

1061
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 3: would teach this history, I was like a little more tame. Yeah,

1062
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 3: So I just, yeah, I want to shout out the

1063
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 3: complexity of of all of this stuff. Yeah, and for

1064
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 3: younger generations too, especially.

1065
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 2: No, that makes sense. That's like I believe in us

1066
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: that we can hold onto complicated thoughts, I hope. So

1067
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 2: I believe in us that we can say sex work

1068
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 2: is bad and work is bad.

1069
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 4: And two things can be true at once.

1070
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that you know something that's important to me

1071
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 3: and that I think vibrant sex work communities that feel

1072
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 3: the ways that that person talked about when she held

1073
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: her shoulders high or changed her posture like it is

1074
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 3: the reminder that sex is not always already bad, that

1075
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 3: we are not always already you know, going to be victimized,

1076
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 3: that it's like good to like remember that, like sex

1077
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 3: can be fun and silly and pleasurable or sex adjacent things.

1078
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:54,760
Speaker 3: And I personally think that is necessary to combat sexual

1079
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 3: violence because otherwise all that we hear is that sex

1080
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 3: is scary, sex is bad, people are out to hurt you,

1081
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 3: and you know what you pay attention to grows sort

1082
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 3: of Adrian ma Ree Brown ask kind of stuff. I

1083
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 3: just would really love to fill the world with more

1084
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 3: reminders that there there's a spectrum of sex work and

1085
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 3: sex and you know how we engage with it. That's all.

1086
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.

1087
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 2: And do you have like a newsletter that people could.

1088
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 3: I sure do. Maybe people remember from the last episode, No,

1089
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 3: they forgot, they forgot. It's called Radical Love Letters. Or

1090
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 3: you could just google my name. I have an extra

1091
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 3: E in my first name.

1092
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 2: So anywhere you want, just put the E in, just

1093
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 2: like Rachel.

1094
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 3: Rachel.

1095
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Erchel.

1096
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a C H E. L.

1097
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. Just google me and you'll find my things to

1098
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 3: buy and support and follow, et cetera. Thank you, thanks

1099
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 3: in advance.

1100
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, take care of each other, ice and talk to

1101
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 2: y'all next week.

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00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1103
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1104
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: visit our website Goolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1105
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, app a Podcasts, or wherever you

1106
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.