1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Oh say, can you see by 4 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: the Don's early light, our super producer, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: I can't see a thing except Max's glorious visage and hairdo. 6 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. 7 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: And that is mister Noel Brown. They call me Ben 8 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: Bullen ed Noel. You know we were you know what 9 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: we were referencing here what so proudly we hailed at 10 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: the podcast bright gleaming at It is sort of our 11 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: school song here in the United States. 12 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: Fight Fight Fight, fight, fight right right right four. It's 13 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: like some of the House of the Dragon type stuff. Man, Yeah, 14 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,919 Speaker 2: I mean it's you know what I guess he's describing. 15 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 2: Is he describing like war or is it a fireworks display? 16 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 2: I've always been a little ify on what the subject 17 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: matter that song is about. 18 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: He is describing the This is funny because we'll see 19 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: this in the episode two. He is describing a real 20 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: conflict that he saw. And who is he? You might 21 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: be asking. It's a guy named Francis scott Key since 22 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, our national anthem. The official national anthem 23 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: has been the infamous Star Spangled Banner written by this guy. 24 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: We love national anthems. They're weird, they're frequently controversial. Check 25 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: out our earlier episode on that before we get into it, Ben, 26 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: what I think is so delightful and strange about the 27 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: United States is that while the Star Spangled Banner is 28 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: our official anthem, we have a ton of songs that 29 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: could be considered unofficial national anthems, like Proud to Be 30 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: an American? 31 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: R No. 32 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,279 Speaker 1: Really is that where we are for a certain demographic. 33 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: Bro, Yes, at least I know I'm free to not 34 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: like that song very much. 35 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: It's one of those songs where and I'm going to 36 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: get some heat for this. It's one of those songs. 37 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: Like to me, it's like Benny and the Jets in 38 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: that it doesn't go anywhere melodically, you know. Benny and 39 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: the Jets is kind of this thing for several minutes, 40 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: it sort of it just goes and goes. 41 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: It does have a bit of a turn. I like 42 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: the part where he goes, but Benny and the Jets 43 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: that one little part like downward inflection Benny in the 44 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 2: Jets part, But You're right, it doesn't. It's a bit, 45 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: it's slight, it's a minor. It's a minor outon John. 46 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like we're at a one and a half, 47 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: not like banning the Jets. I'm gonna throw my vote 48 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 3: in here is not liking that one too or two 49 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: and a half. 50 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: All right, And that's how democracy works. I mean, it's 51 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: no crocodile rock. Okay, let's put it that way. It 52 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: is no crocodile rock or circle of it. But I'm 53 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: telling you, guys, Proud to be an American is kind 54 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: of like that. But Star Spangled Banner, right, it's a 55 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: we're fans of music here. Star Spangled Banner is infamous 56 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: for being kind of difficult to sing correctly. There's a 57 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: ton of crazy war around the song. A lot of 58 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: people and this may surprise some of our non American 59 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. A ton of people in the States don't 60 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: actually dig the Star Spangled Banner. 61 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: As I saw that, you mentioned that it was much maligned, 62 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: and I guess maybe that that just don't float in 63 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: those circles. But like, who's trash talking the Star Spangled Banner? 64 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 2: I mean, I would argue it's on its face mid 65 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: at best, but like, is there really a vocal contingent 66 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: out there, like like slandering the Star Spangled banner? 67 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: There have been movements to change the US national anthem. Uh, 68 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: this is this is a thing that comes up. It's 69 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: it's very it's a very American idea. Right to fix 70 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: the thing, but choicing of grievances, right, But but to 71 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: change the banner or the Star Spangled banner would at 72 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: this point require Congress, to require an Act of Congress, 73 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: and then the President would have to approve it. And 74 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: so we're kind of stuck with this legacy idea, and 75 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: we're not exploring this anthem in particular in today's episode. Instead, 76 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: we're kind of going behind the music, as it were, 77 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: and exploring the story of its creator, Francis, because, as 78 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: ridiculous as it may sound, folks, we are sorry to 79 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: report that Francis Scott Key was kind of a pill, 80 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: kind of a heel, kind of a jerk. Not a 81 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: good guy, not the best one. Nothing like if you 82 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: lined up all the guys, I don't think he stopped ten. 83 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 2: Let's get into why, and as you might imagine, it 84 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 2: has something to do with hipocrisy. 85 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: I was drinking coffee and let's spout it out. But yeah, 86 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: that's let's keep that. That's perfect ol our pal. Francis 87 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: is born on August first. He's a fellow August baby. 88 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: It's seventeen seventy nine, so just after what we call 89 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: the American Revolution. And he is born at a place 90 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: called Terra Rubra. This sea is in modern day Carroll County, Maryland. 91 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: His family is very wealthy. 92 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 2: Yep, yep, you're definitely coming up alongside the swells. And 93 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: that's primarily because his father was a lawyer ross Key, 94 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: also a Continental War veteran and a local judge, and 95 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: so he had a bit of a born on third 96 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: kind of upbringing. It afforded him the opportunity to enroll 97 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: in Annapolis's in Maryland there Saint John's College. And imagine this, 98 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: at the time, he was only ten years old, which 99 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: is crazy. He's a bit of a bit of a prodigy, 100 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: I guess right. I mean, if he's calling in college 101 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 2: at ten or is this just specifically a product of 102 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: his his privilege? Yeah, before we call him adoogie houser there, 103 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: we're not calling him dumb folks, to be clear, but 104 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: we are saying that he had family connections. He is 105 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: kind of what we'll call a nepo baby in this 106 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: day and age, because he was studying law under his uncle, 107 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: a guy named Philip Barton Key, who was a British loyalist, 108 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: which was pretty poisonous at this time, you know, post revolution. 109 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: I would think, Yeah, he did graduate in seventeen ninety six. 110 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: He was only seventeen years old, so I guess that 111 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 2: means he was in college for seven seven years. That's 112 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: a long time. I mean, that's all to me to 113 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: graduate college, but I didn't do it right. 114 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: Well, he started when he was ten, you know what 115 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: I mean, So he had a lot of catching up 116 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: to do. 117 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: He did have a little kit fair. He literally just said, 118 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: take this child learned men and turn him into a 119 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: learned man. Originally, young Frank yearned, he yearned to breathe 120 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: free and join the Episcopal priesthood. Maybe not free he was, 121 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: and this will be darkly hilarious. Later quite the pious 122 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: little lad Francis decided against that. However, possibly I'm the 123 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: advice of his father. Maybe there wasn't you know, there's 124 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: no money in the priesthood. He said, in my imagining 125 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: of this encounter, so he eschewed a spiritual path and 126 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 2: followed the secular moneyed path. Francis went on to study law, 127 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: following the footsteps of Ross his dad, under a judge 128 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: by the name of Jeremiah Townsld. Chase. 129 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: Yes, you can smell the mint Julep's adom. This was 130 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: probably again a hookup from his father, Ross Key. Anyway, 131 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: it results in our buddy Francis passing the bar. He 132 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: becomes a lawyer in his own right around eighteen oh one, 133 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: So for all of us playing along at home, that 134 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: makes Frank about twenty two years old. Year after that, 135 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: it's New Year's Day and he gets hitched to a 136 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: lady named Mary Taylor Lloyd. This is important because Mary 137 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: comes from a family that's even more moneyed than the 138 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: Key family. She is Aristocracy. Her dad is Edward Lloyd 139 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: four the fourth. At anytime, anytime somebody gets past the 140 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: third in their name, I always wonder, right if they're 141 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: old money. 142 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: Well, sure you know you don't get a middle name 143 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: like Taylo unless you come from some old money either, 144 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: Because at first I thought you had misspoke. No, it 145 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 2: is t a y l Oe not Taylor Taylo. 146 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, old money or someone who can't spell or both, 147 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: so so not mutually exclusive. There's a ven diagram, there's 148 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: a Van diagram. The United States has proven that time 149 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: and time again. So yeah. So this guy Eddie, who 150 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: was kind of a side character in our story, he is, 151 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: as we said, he's an elite plantation owner. He was 152 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: a delegate to the Congressional Congress. He himself had married 153 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: into a lot of money earlier in life. And at 154 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: this point we talk about this often. In this juncture 155 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: of history, the United States is still trying to figure out, like, hey, 156 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: how does an upper crust work in our new nation 157 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: which is ostensibly founded upon meritocracy. So they're saying, look, 158 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: these public proclamations of equality and liberty, they're great for 159 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: the press, they're great for the larger public and the 160 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: hoi poloi. But then privately, these folks who go to 161 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: the Congress, and these folks who have these big decision 162 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: maker meetings, they get together in back rooms and they 163 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: all feel something akin to a later concept of social Darwinism. 164 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: Do as I say, not as I do, A bit 165 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: of a who's got time for all? That this is 166 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: for others for others. 167 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they don't want to publicly call themselves aristocrats 168 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: or royalty, but they very much privately agree that some 169 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: people are just better than others. So that's the the 170 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: echelon the sphere in which Francis Scott. 171 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: Key is moving, planting the seeds for further elitism. He 172 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: did have his whole life path kind of set before him. 173 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 2: He is living high on the socioeconomic hog, coming from money, 174 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: marrying rich. He didn't have to do a thing if 175 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: he didn't want to. He could have rested on his 176 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: laurels there his family fortune for the rest of his life. Possibly. 177 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: They did have quite a few kids. Eleven if I'm 178 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: not mistaken, Ben, Yeah. 179 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: Eleven kids is a lot even back then. And Francis 180 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: and Mary were also living in an expensive neighborhood. They 181 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: relocated to the Georgetown area of Washington, d C. 182 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 2: Still fancy, right, very much so, even. 183 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: More now, And they were residing this I almost say coven. 184 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: I shouldn't say coven, this large collection of children. They 185 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: were in the Key House, which is now a famous 186 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: part of Georgetown. Look again, we kind of overemphasized this, folks. 187 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: Francis Franny whatever you want to call him. He is 188 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: a clever guy. Fran Man, Yeah, the frand Reno. This 189 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: is pardon us key to really understanding the dissonance at 190 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: play and why we think he's, you know, kind of 191 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 1: a pill. 192 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: A bit of a pill. Like any young man, he 193 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,239 Speaker 2: had his share of folks he looked up to the 194 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 2: rock stars of the day, chief of those, the equally 195 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: morally complicated Thomas Jefferson, who we've discussed at length. Got 196 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 2: to remember that Francis was born after the actual action 197 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,479 Speaker 2: of the revolution, so he was too young to experience 198 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 2: any of that firsthand. But he came up in the 199 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 2: aftermath of this new nation, and like the very young nation, 200 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 2: continues to be relatively young compared to other civilizations. Francis 201 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: was also grappling with sort of an existential crisis. How 202 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 2: could a country, the champion liberty and equality also practice 203 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 2: industrial scale and laveman of other human beings? What a quandary, Ben, 204 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 2: What a quandary? How do you reconcile these things? 205 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: I didn't, not really, not successfully, because majority of his 206 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: adult life Francis was always trying to tread some sort 207 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: of moral middle ground and put diplomatically, he had a 208 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: best mixed results. I mean, you can, of course see 209 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: his legal career in DC. Luckily nepotism aside. He was 210 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: quite a talented lawyer. He was known as an extraordinary orator. 211 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 1: He was blessed with what the Irish and you know 212 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: will call the gift of gab. To his credit, he 213 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: argued against the Irish Actually, okay, all right, I'll write 214 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: to the ambassador to credit oh right, to the President 215 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: of Ireland, because I want an excuse to talk about 216 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: his dog. Have you seen those clips of the president? 217 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: Is it a cute Is it a cute boy's cute? 218 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: Kind of a ceremonial position. I don't know if the 219 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: guy is still president, but he is most well known 220 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: for taking his dog with him everywhere. So he's giving 221 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: he's given serious speeches, and the dog is always next 222 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: to him, like sniffing the treats in his pocket. 223 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: Anyway, it's a Bernice Mountain dog. 224 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a big boy, uh Max with 225 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: the facts. 226 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, well, and to keys credit, if we're going 227 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 2: to give him, we're going to give it to him 228 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: now publicly at least. He argued against enslavement as a concept. 229 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: Yeah ye, And he even defended enslaved people in court. 230 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, in eighteen twenty five, he 231 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: explicitly stated, by the law of nature, all men are free. 232 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: And he went all the way to the Supreme Court 233 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: to go to bat for some people who wanted manumission, 234 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: wanted emancipation. But the thing is, folks, we're making him 235 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: sound really good, and like we said, it's important to 236 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: get give credit where due. The thing is. In his 237 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: personal life, Francis was the opposite of an abolitionist. This 238 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: dude literally owned slaves himself. When he was twenty two 239 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: years old, he bought his first enslaved person. By eighteen 240 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: twenty he owned wish wish again, no less than six 241 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: human beings. So like the sheer hypocrisy, the profound paradox 242 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: of going all the way to the Supreme Court of 243 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: the United States to argue for freeing people and then 244 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: heading home and going, well, you know not you guys though, right, 245 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,119 Speaker 1: like not not the six. 246 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: Of you, No, no, because that would be convenient for me, 247 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: right exactly, how was gonna do all the chores? Guys? 248 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: You get it? Like I can't cook, you know what 249 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: I mean? 250 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: So I don't do baseboards. No, this is sorry. 251 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 3: About your life. 252 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: He did arguably try to make a difference. We know 253 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: he held something this complicated. We know he held something 254 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: like anti slavery views because he was a co founder 255 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: of a group called the American Colonization Society, and they 256 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,239 Speaker 1: saw themselves as very progressive. 257 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 2: See how you could claim to have anti slavery views 258 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: while simultaneously on these slaves and these things just do 259 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: not track. It doesn't really you know, you know again, hypocrisy. 260 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: It just could screams do as I say, not as 261 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: I do, And it really is giving image over reality. 262 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: Very much. So his crew, the ACS American Colonization Society, 263 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: founded in eighteen sixteen, had had a whole pitch that 264 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: they thought was edgy and radical and very much a 265 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: greater good thing. They said, here's what we should do. 266 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: We should take everybody who, by hook or by crook, 267 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: has been enslaved and then later freed, and we should 268 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: let them stay free, because we think that's fundamentally the 269 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: right thing to do. But we should also ship them 270 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: the hell out of the United States. We'll make special colonies. 271 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: We'll make colonies where we segregate them on the African continent. 272 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 2: I mean it's sort of like, you know, administrations in 273 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: different local areas and in the United States and Canada 274 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: dealing with the unhoused problem by shipping them elsewhere. 275 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Hawaii had a big problem with that too. 276 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 2: A lot of them get shipped to Vancouver, which is 277 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: a real tough place because of that. 278 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and let us not forget that in our home 279 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: HQ of Atlanta, Georgia, when the Olympics came in, a 280 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: lot of unhoused people got one way bus tickets. This 281 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 1: is this was then is now seen as a moral 282 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: middle ground. They said, Okay, we're going to hold true 283 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: to the letter of the American law that all people 284 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: are created equal, but we're still going to bend the 285 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: need to this patriarchal agrarian system. And obviously folks mixing 286 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: the races, mixing the races here in the eighteen hundreds, 287 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: that is uncivilized. 288 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 2: Isn't that That's why they used a really gross term 289 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: for that, ben wasn't it misiingen imagination. Yeah, it just 290 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: has it's icky mouthfield to it. Just you can tell 291 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 2: that it's bad. 292 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like how early in 293 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: the career of this show, you and I learned that 294 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: Oregon never allowed slavery, not because they believed in equality, 295 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: but because they were so racist. They genuinely hated. The 296 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: idea of black people living in their area in any form. 297 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 2: Still blows my mind and blows the minds of most 298 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 2: people I share this with at parties because we're fun 299 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 2: there that you know, Oregon was founded as like this 300 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: white soulenly paradise, kind of intentional anti black community, especially 301 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: given what people know about Portland and it being so 302 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 2: kind of stereotypically let's call it liberal. A lot of 303 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 2: the rest of the state very much still to this 304 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: day quite backwards, and often is the home of a 305 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: breeding ground for a lot of white supremacist groups. Yeah. 306 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 3: I find it interesting because one place that is not 307 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 3: surprised about that fact are people in Portland. 308 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: People. 309 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you get outside of Portland. It's a it's 310 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 3: a it can change, it changes very fast. 311 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: I mean, it's not that far off from Atlanta being 312 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: sort of a liberal bastion in Georgia, you know, surrounded 313 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: by not no casting any e spersions on the people 314 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 2: of Georgia. But it is a very different world out there. 315 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 3: Well to jump to follow up on this, I mean, 316 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 3: I don't know if this is africane anywhere, but part 317 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 3: of the state at one point was trying to quit 318 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 3: Oregon and join Idaho. 319 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: Idaho. 320 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 3: They disagree with the views of Portland, but since Portland 321 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 3: is such a large population center of the state, it 322 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 3: has kind of like a controlling basis for how the 323 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 3: state votes, and so they were trying to seceed from Oregon. 324 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just the population aspect. It was also 325 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: the fact that Portland is an economic powerhouse in the region. 326 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: And I remember my first time in Portland being in 327 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: an interracial relationship. I was confused, frankly by the racism. 328 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: I didn't get some of this stuff, like why is 329 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: that lady spitting at us in the street? Is she okay? 330 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,959 Speaker 1: Is she sick? No, she was just sick of us. 331 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: A story for another day. But if we go back 332 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: to Francis Scott Key, we know that free people of 333 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: color in the United States activist and activist and orators 334 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: and so on. They predictably hated the American Colonization Society. 335 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: They said it was an op and black leaders of 336 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: the equality movement thought leaving the country was beat me here, Max, 337 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: bullshit full stop. So this dude, Francis, of course, is 338 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: one of those guys who probably doesn't get told no 339 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: very often, and except that time, his dad wouldn't let 340 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: him be a priest. So he is a silver spooned, 341 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: silver tongued lawman, and he is convinced he has the 342 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: right way to tackle chattel slavery. He says, Okay, what 343 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: we do is we can't just free everybody, right, We've 344 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: got to gradually dial it down, you know, like quitting 345 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: coffee or something, or quitting caffeine. And the implicit statement 346 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: was you don't have to go back to the plantation, 347 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: but you can't just live here at this point too. 348 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: This is interesting. Everybody is thinking of this guy as 349 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: a hotshot lawyer. Nobody is thinking of him as a 350 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: songwriter or a poet. 351 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 2: Not yet, and they may never potentially, although it would 352 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 2: seem that some of his hookups and family connections are 353 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: what led him to be jumped up, as they say 354 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 2: in the song of Ice and Fire Universe. 355 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: Yes yeah, yeah, yeah, as a jumped up hedge nights 356 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah yeah. So let's pause for a 357 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: second in this narrative and get to what he is 358 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: most well known for today, which is not law in 359 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: or lawyering. 360 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: But it. 361 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: Is the notoriously difficult to seeing star spangled banner because 362 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: he has jumped up like you're saying, Noel. He is 363 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: a mover and a shaker, which means that at this 364 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: point in American history, as part of the upper crust, 365 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: he functions as a fixer, right, a guy who can 366 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: use his connections through unofficial channels to make stuff. 367 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: Happen, for sure, and he does just that. In early 368 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 2: September of eighteen fourteen, after the British had burned the 369 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: city in the city of Washington, Key was sent on 370 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: a quite potentially dangerous mission to the British fleet near 371 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 2: Baltimore in order to negotiate for and secure the release 372 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 2: of a friend of his by the name of William Beans, 373 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 2: a real stand up guy. William Beans a physician from 374 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 2: Upper Marlborough, Maryland. Bean's family and friends hope the Key, 375 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 2: who was then a of course, a prominent attorney in Washington, 376 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 2: would be able to accomplish this task getting his release secured. 377 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, because his family wasn't able to make stuff happen. 378 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: They were perhaps not as connected as he was. So 379 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: France's partners up with an army colonel from the US 380 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: named John Skinner, and then they get the you know, 381 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: the go ahead from the President at the time, James Madison. 382 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: So Skinner and Francis meet the British at the Potomac 383 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: River on September seventh, and they the British are aboard 384 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: a ship called the todtet T NNA and t they 385 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: go into a negotiation. It's very civil, it's very fancy, 386 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:02,479 Speaker 1: you know, sharing wine or whatever. And these two British guys, 387 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: General Robert Ross, because I'm a grown man who can vote, 388 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my best not to laugh. Another British 389 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: guy whose name is. 390 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: George Cockburn, he really needs to get that looked at. 391 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 2: I'll titter enough for both of us. Cockburn was, of course, 392 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: as you point out, Ben, in the research document, these 393 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 2: top notch research document for this episode, a rear admiral 394 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: I think that we can vote, and Ben, I disagree. 395 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 2: The jokes don't write themselves. 396 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,479 Speaker 1: It's a rear admiral. Oh my gosh, it's funny. 397 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 2: Sorry, but but stuff. 398 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: We're keeping it all. 399 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 2: In So, boy, are we ever we're having big, big 400 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: Friday energy on a Thursday. Just so. 401 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: Uh So, these British guys are again beat me her Max. 402 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: They are about the cannon ball, the shut out of Baltimore, Maryland, 403 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: and they say, yeah, okay, all right, you've convinced us 404 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: Colonel Skinner and rich guy Lawyer, we will release this beans. 405 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 2: Dude, release the beans. 406 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: Release the beans, says Rear Admiral Cockburn. So but they say, 407 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: an important caveat Chaps you can't leave until after we're 408 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: done with our attack. So you have to sit there 409 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: and watch us bomb Baltimore's Fort McHenry for like a 410 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: full day. 411 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 2: Okay, all right. So early in the morning of September fourteenth, 412 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 2: Francis looked out and saw just that. However, despite all 413 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: the damage and chaos it caused, the American flag was 414 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 2: still flying high old glory over Fort Henry McHenry. Excuse me, yeah. 415 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 2: This inspired him to write the lyrics to the Star 416 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: Spangled Banner. After being released from this brief time being 417 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 2: held hostage, he rewrote the poem in a Baltimore hotel 418 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 2: that was then printed anonymously under the title Defense of 419 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 2: Fort McHenry, which is a very unsexy name and published 420 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: by the Baltimore Patriot on September the twentieth. Just a 421 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 2: few days later, it was set to an already popular 422 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 2: tune to Anacreon in Heaven, the theme song of the 423 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 2: British Anacreontic Society. The song became one of several popular 424 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 2: patriotic tunes that were performed throughout the nation, kind of repurposing, 425 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 2: I guess, you know, right. And again Francis at this 426 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 2: point still didn't really think of himself as a poetry prodigy. 427 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 2: He's still lawyer, a lawyer, lawyer in so he just 428 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 2: gets back to the busy job of lawyer in. 429 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And for everybody who is wondering what the 430 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: Anacreonotic Society is is this is a gentleman's club of 431 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: amateur musicians in London and they're pretty new. They were 432 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: founded in the mid seventeen hundreds. And like Francis, these 433 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: guys are well to do you know, doctors, barristers. 434 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of like a creative writing group or something. 435 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: Yes, well done. And if we fast forward, we're not 436 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: saying they were any good, but they were enjoying what 437 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: they were doing, yes, And that's the point. Of art. 438 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: So fast forward, it's the eighteen twenties, it's the eighteen thirties. 439 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: Now we see a reactionary rise of what was called 440 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: a mediast abolition. The mediast abolition is what hopefully the 441 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: vast majority of Americans support today, which is say, hey, 442 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: no half measures, stop treating human beings as property. These 443 00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: guys were not John Brown level, like burn it down physically, 444 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: but they were blowing the whistle in the halls of power, 445 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: and they were saying what we said at the very top. 446 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: They were like, hey, my fellow Americans, this is hypocrisy, 447 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: this is bad. We've got the Constitution, We've got the 448 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: Bill of Rights. They're pretty frickin explicit. 449 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: Uh. 450 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: And you you have these words, right you and power 451 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: that you claim are awesome every time you need to 452 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: get elected. But what you do in practice is diametrically 453 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: opposed to these noble ideals. 454 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: This is democracy manifests. Sorry, very decracy manifest yes, thank you. 455 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: So this this is the clarion call, a media establish 456 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: clarion call for folks like William Lloyd Garrison, the publisher 457 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: of an anti slavery newspaper called The Liberator. And then, 458 00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: of course the famous Frederick Douglas, who our own president said, 459 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: we're hearing more and more about these days. 460 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 2: Do you remember that? I sure, yes, he's that guy 461 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 2: doing great work out there. Yeah. This was the time 462 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: where people really needed to kind of poop or get 463 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 2: off the pot, as they say, put their money where 464 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 2: their mouths were. And it was also a time where 465 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: a lot of that hypocrisy was kind of being you know, exposed. 466 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: Those clarion calls you were talking about earlier, were like, 467 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 2: we're not going to slow roll this. You know, we've 468 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 2: got to stamp out slavery and racism. Now, yeah, I 469 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: mean the racism part took a long time and it's 470 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 2: still it's still still progress. Yes, very least we can 471 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: get rid of the slavery bit. The American Anti Slavery 472 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 2: Society is formed in eighteen thirty one. They're exactly what 473 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: we're describing. They say, our goal is the immediate end 474 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 2: to slavery, not this undeniably racist gradualism of these American 475 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 2: Callization Society clowns. Now, we all know that trial lawyers 476 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: have a certain stereotype, and that stereotype is often being 477 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 2: tenacious in their opinions. Right, very pushy. Rarely are they 478 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: Rarely are they known to walk back an opinion or 479 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 2: admit that they are wrong. So Francis there's no exception 480 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: to this stereotype. And again, it's the stereotype because it 481 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 2: happens to some lawyers, but obviously hashtag not all lawyers. 482 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: Francis is one of these guys. 483 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 2: Though. 484 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: He reacts to these immediates abolitionists by saying, I'm going 485 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: to be increasingly conservative. He talks about abolitionists the way 486 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: people talk about anti vod today. One of his big 487 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: things is that he's walking around. He's going, hey, guys, hey, guys, look, 488 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: I get I get it. But the thing is, these 489 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: slave owners invested a lot of money. So what are 490 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: you gonna do? What You're just gonna rob these people. 491 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: They have to be financially compensated for losing out on 492 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: their investments. Let's be reasonable. I don't know why his 493 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: voice got more and more soul goodman as that went on. 494 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 2: Well, it feels like he's doing a bit of a 495 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 2: tony soprano kind of move. 496 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my cousin, right. 497 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like sure on paper, I can 498 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 2: see that, But it also. 499 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: Like they're people. 500 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, well I'm just saying, like, 501 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: you know, there was a time where it was legal, 502 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: and those people paid good money, you know, to do 503 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 2: a thing that at the time was legal. So logically 504 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 2: it would follow that now that it's been made illegal, 505 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 2: maybe they should be refunded their investment. But also so 506 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 2: like that doesn't really work from a moral standpoint. This 507 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: is a moral discussion, right. 508 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, you know, and this these ideas of compensation 509 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: came up again and again. Games you should be compensated, 510 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: right right, in reparations, right, So this was an argument 511 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: for towards reparations for slave owners, not yet. 512 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 2: Gross yeah. Yeah. 513 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: So by this point, the nepotism, combined with the talent, 514 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: had given Francis Scott Key the position of district attorneys. 515 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: So he was definitely in the catbird seat. He had 516 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: the public pulpit to rail on and on about this. 517 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: But here we find another complication, folks, because Francis seemed 518 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: to understand that slavery as a concept was super duper wrong. Still, 519 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: even though he acknowledged that he was also one of 520 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: those guys this was very common who believed that black 521 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: people were inherently inferior to others. So he would say, 522 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, he would say all people should be free, 523 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: or but all people aren't really equal, right, like you 524 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,720 Speaker 1: get it, You get it right, guys, right, mister president. 525 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: And as a result, the American colonization Society wasn't super successful. 526 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: They've moved very few people out to the African continent. 527 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: The people who did manage to get across the pond, 528 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: they were in brutal conditions, they were not well supported. 529 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: Extinction level mortality rates were in play, and the ACS, 530 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: you could say, became a tool like what we would 531 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,919 Speaker 1: call an AstroTurf movement these days, for pro slavery. 532 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: Powers, and you know, kind of adding insult to injury. 533 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 2: He also did defend the idea of the occupation, former 534 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: occupation of being a slave catcher. Yeah. 535 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And slave catchers were essentially bounty hunters who were 536 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 1: paid on commission by slave owners, often in the South, 537 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,439 Speaker 1: to chase down escape to people and to return them, 538 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: usually alive but sometimes dead, for a fee for a commission. 539 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 2: Doesn't this kind of make you think of like the 540 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 2: idea of being tried for war crimes or something like that, 541 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 2: You know, it'd be the equivalent of like defending a 542 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: war criminal. Yeah. 543 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, good defense lawyers often make their 544 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: name on defending folks that the court, Yeah, the court 545 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: of public opinion has already decided we're guilty. Sometimes a 546 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: good reason, but. 547 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 2: It's the good point. And of course there is that 548 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: old argument that everyone deserves, you know, a robust defense. 549 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 2: I just don't know if that's where he was coming 550 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:52,439 Speaker 2: at it from. 551 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: I'm sure he leaned on that one. It talked a 552 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: lot about it. 553 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: It seems like the kind of thing he would have done. Yes, 554 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 2: very much. 555 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: So we know that he came down hard in various 556 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: aspects of this. There was a famous trial in eighteen 557 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: thirty six about a guy named Ruben Crandall, and Francis said, 558 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: this Ruben Crandall guy is not the abolitionist you think 559 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: he is. He is trying to create a widespread rebellion 560 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: of slaves. And the evidence is so tenuous and skimpy. 561 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: Police had raided this guy's office and they found anti 562 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: slavery pamphlets, basically ratic zines. They found zines, and was 563 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: possession of a zine with intent to distribute. And in 564 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: this courtroom, Francis the guy who wrote The Star Spangled Banner, says, Look, 565 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: people should be able to own people, you know, like 566 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: people sell the people to people. 567 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 2: Right, started this company with one rusty slave ship and 568 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 2: a motto people selling people to people. Mister well done. 569 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And he built his case around the idea 570 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: that anti slavery activism would create rebellion amongst the enslaved 571 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: population of the US, and therefore it was a matter 572 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: not of morality but of public safety. 573 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 2: Yikes. Yeah, talk about gilding the lily. Is that the 574 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: right term? Or putting lipstick on a pig. I don't know, 575 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 2: I get those confused. But yeah, it's definitely a spin move. 576 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've got a quotation to measure the size 577 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: of this guy's butt holary. In this case, let's remember 578 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: as you hear this, folks, that Francis Scott Key again, 579 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: the creator of the Star Spangled Banner, said this on 580 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: record verbatim. 581 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 2: Yep, he sure did. The great moral and political evil 582 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 2: of which I speaks posed to be slavery. But is 583 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 2: it not plainly the whole colored race? But if I 584 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: did say this of slavery, as I am quite willing 585 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 2: to say it here and on all fit occasions. Do 586 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 2: I not also, in the same breath speak of emancipation 587 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 2: as a far greater evil. What are you talking about, guy? 588 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: We can't free everybody game out of his butthole. What 589 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: he's doing very much, he's boofing. So Francis argued for 590 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: this segregation for the entirety of his life, and in 591 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: this landmark case, this Rubing Crandall case, he wanted to 592 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: convince people that not prosecuting a mediist abolitionist was a 593 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: death sentence for the Union. To him, all people might 594 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: be technically free, legally equal, but some are to quote 595 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: or well more equal than others. The real threat to 596 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: him was integration right leading to miss engination. Ultimately, in 597 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: this eighteen thirty six trial, our buddy Rubin is found 598 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,760 Speaker 1: not guilty, but it doesn't do him much good because 599 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 1: he gets tuberculosis in jail and then he dies pretty 600 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: much right after he was released. So this is arguably 601 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: a big win for Francis. 602 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would seem so, And Ben correct me if 603 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 2: I'm wrong. Did we not do a previous episode that 604 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 2: was a little more focused on the Star Spangled banner itself? 605 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: We did an episode on multiple national anthems. 606 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if you want a little more info on 607 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 2: the you know how the Star Spangled banner came to 608 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 2: be in some of the controversies surrounding it being the 609 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 2: national anthem, do check that one out as well. Yeah. 610 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: We also, as we're wrapping up the story here, we've 611 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: got to add another wrinkle to this morally troubled character. 612 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: Francis was known amongst his upper class peers as a 613 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 1: humane slave voter. That's a pretty paradoxical statement. Yeah, but 614 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: but scoff, scoff. But in the eighteen thirties, he freed 615 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: multiple enslaved people under his control, and we know that 616 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: at least one of those people continued to work and 617 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 1: stay on the property was a free foreman on the farm. 618 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: And as the freed foreman on the farm, this guy 619 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: supervised several people that were still enslaved because Francis did 620 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 1: not free all of them. 621 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 2: Yikes, or like Samuel L. Jackson's character and Chengo unchained. 622 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, get out of my head, dude. Yeah, it's no 623 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 1: wonder that Jefferson was Francis's dream guy. 624 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 2: Right. 625 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: Shout out to Sally Emmys. 626 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 2: Night number one, A guy talking to Francis. 627 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, Francis got keyth spoiler dies, he's not around to 628 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: hear this episode. 629 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 2: That might have been the case at some point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 630 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: It was January eleventh, eighteen forty three. He was sixty 631 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: three years old, fourteen years after he dies. His collected 632 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: poetry is published in eighteen fifty seven, and at the 633 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: time of his passing, he still wish Wish owned eight slaves. 634 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,399 Speaker 1: So you got to wonder what would he as such 635 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: a morally tortured, staunch segregationist, what would he think of 636 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: modern day America? How would he feel about going to, say, 637 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,879 Speaker 1: a baseball game, and heard the national anthem and seeing 638 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: people of all creeds, ethnicities, and backgrounds singing along together. 639 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 2: What would he have thought of a Fergie's interpretation? 640 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, well, what do you have thought of Roseanne 641 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: Barr's interpretation? 642 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,359 Speaker 2: Ooh good question. Well, but at the end of the day. 643 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 2: To take away for this episode, it's in a title 644 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 2: I believe, is that we think he was kind of 645 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 2: a jerk. 646 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, I hate to say it, but we're being fair. 647 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: We have so much more that we want to explore, 648 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: perhaps another day. Thank you so much for tuning in, 649 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians. Big thanks to our super producer, mister 650 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: Max Williams. Big thanks actually to everybody who has powered wait, 651 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: we'll keep it in, but big thanks to the majority 652 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: of people who have powered through the Star Spangled banner 653 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: in a public performance, So most of you, but maybe not. 654 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 2: All of you. I haven't been to a sporting event 655 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 2: a lot. Do they sing the whole damn thing? No? 656 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, because we've got the full lyrics here. 657 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 2: Which I was looking at it some of these verses exactly. 658 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: Big big thanks as well to the rude dudes of 659 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime. Big thanks to aj Bahamas Jacobs and you 660 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 1: know uh an ominous we know what you did to 661 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland aka the Quist. 662 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 2: And huge thanks to you Ben for doing the excellent 663 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 2: research on this episode. We'll see you next time, folks. 664 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 665 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.