WEBVTT - Breeding Big Game Hounds with Steve Herd 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.800 You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.560 you by Interstate Batteries. Now, it's that time of year 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:10.360 where we are trying to organize and prep and plan 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.400 for the upcoming season, and some of the gear that 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.000 we use takes batteries. Now, you should go visit your 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:22.319 local Interstate Battery store or visit Interstate Batteries dot com 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.880 to check out all the different varieties of batteries that 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.720 they offer. They have truck batteries, they have batteries for 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.400 your trail cameras. They have batteries for your range finder 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.920 and everything else that is electronic that you use for 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.320 your hunting equipment. They have batteries for that. Interstate Batteries 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:50.960 dot Com awesome company. Check them out. So I will 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.600 regret forever the crosses that I did not make with 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.400 you with them. That's a good statement right there. You'll 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.360 never regret across that you did make as you can 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.920 correct it, or you do regret the crosses that you 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.800 didn't make because you're gone. You're gone. I mean, the 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.839 list goes on. There's no other animal in the world 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.319 that has to be bred to such a consistency of 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:17.640 high caliber as what a trailhound. A big game is 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.320 into me, and and and so far no one has 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:22.600 contradicted that statement. By the way, I mean, you know, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:24.840 a show dog has to look for it in the ring, 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.040 you know, but that's a legal run hounds. You can 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:42.480 turn your pots after him. My name is Clay Nukeleman. 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.120 I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.960 also be your host into the world of hunting the 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:56.000 icon of North American wilderness. We'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation, 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.800 but will also bring you into some of the wildest 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:12.120 country on the planet. Chasing bear on this episode of 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.240 the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast, where again with plot breeder 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.080 Steve heard of Bluff Creek plots and we're specifically talking 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:24.840 about breeding big game hounds. You're gonna really enjoy this 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.280 podcast with Steve. What a character. Hey, I want to 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:34.000 draw your attention to our actual print magazine, Bear Hunting Magazine. 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:36.680 Bear Hunting Magazine has been in print for twenty years. 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:42.440 We're the only dedicated bear hunting print publication in the world. 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.880 It's true in Bear Hunting Magazine, if you're not familiar 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.799 with it, you would see bear hunting displayed in all 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.600 its majestic forms, from hunting with hounds to hunting over 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.639 bait to spotting stock hunting in the West, the black 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.920 bear is an incredibly diverse animal, ranges and incredible places, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:01.400 and we hunt them in all different ways. And the 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.280 Bear Hunting Magazine we're trying to show the full gamut 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.280 of bear hunting. And also we have lots of grizzly 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:11.280 and brown bear stuff and occasionally even stuff from from 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.040 Russia and to other parts of the world, action packed 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:20.040 how to adventure based recipes, uh pound and bear hunting 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:24.880 advocacy stuff and uh we we dedicate a lot of 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.640 our life to this magazine. And you could do us 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.480 a favor and do yourself a favor by becoming a 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:37.120 subscriber to Bear Hunting Magazine at bear dash hunting dot com. Secondly, 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:39.640 the second thing that you could do to help us 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.040 would hate give us a review in iTunes or wherever 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:47.000 you listen to podcasts, like a like a written review, 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:52.000 even anything you say would be great. And uh also, 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.560 you know there's those five stars, and I'm not trying 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:56.640 to twist your arm, but it would be great if 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.560 we could lean far to the right on that line 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.600 of stars. Right in that five star region. But that 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:08.000 helps us with Google and you know, the Internet and such. Hey, 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:12.520 if you're gonna enjoy this podcast with my friend Steve 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:27.560 Heard Colt, Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. We're 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:32.640 here again with my good friend Steve Heard Colton Heard. 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.920 And as you heard from the last podcast, we we 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.280 talked about these plot dogs that Steve has been uh 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.599 involved with his whole life, and we talked about we 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.479 had all kinds of stories and all kinds of history 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.680 about his dad and all these is a super neat, 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:52.719 super neat conversation that we had. What I want to 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.640 do on this podcast, though, is let's hone down our 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.200 our focus to something that I think you've got some 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.840 well you've got a lifetime of history with that. I 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:06.800 also think you have some unique insight. And beyond unique insight, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:11.039 I think that you're able to articulate a very nuanced 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.640 subject that probably there's a lot of great dog breeders 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.520 in the country, animal breeders even this isn't even just 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:24.000 about dogs even, but but I find that maybe they 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.600 just aren't willing to tell what they know. But but 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.040 but you are, and no, you're able to articulate some 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.000 of the things that that you have done and have 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:39.360 seen and have experienced and have had the the time 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.599 to evaluate. I mean, so it's not just like me 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.760 going out and having the litter of pups and two 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:49.760 years later making big assumptions about dog breeding. But what 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.160 we're gonna talk about is breeding big game dogs and um. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.200 And so you wrote an article for Bare Honey magazine 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.280 several years ago that had a lot of interest and uh. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.720 And you know what, I appreciate somebody that's just willing 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.760 to say what they think, Steve. I find that a 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.479 lot of people, if they have strong opinions, they're afraid 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.880 to say them because they're fearful that people will think 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.200 they're being prideful. I agree with that, well, but I 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.640 but I do it anyway. But that's that's not no, no, 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.160 what you're doing to me. It is right. You're just saying, hey, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.240 this is what I do. I've built, I've done this 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.080 for a lifetime, this is what I do. I'm not 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.200 saying it's the best. I'm not saying it's the only way. 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:27.920 I'm not saying it's the right way. I'm saying it's 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:32.320 the way that and and maybe I can help guide somebody. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:34.680 Maybe I can help guide somebody, but but do it, 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.200 you know, do it your own way. If it succeeds. Okay, now, 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.800 and once again, maybe some of it was maybe some 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:42.680 of the first of it was luck. But also but 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.599 when I knowing what I knew from the from the 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.200 past history of the dogs, when I made my bouncer 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.000 to Donna and bouncer to suit crosses, I thought, how 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.800 can it go wrong when all those old timers have 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.280 put all their time into this effort of breeding this 0:06:57.400 --> 0:06:59.880 kind of a dog. And then I have exactly what 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:01.520 I'm looking for right here in front of me. So 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.440 if I breed them together, surely it will turn out 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.320 that way. Well. First off, for you to ever, if 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.800 you're ever going to breed anything, which is like you say, horses, 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.640 game chickens or whatever. Hey, your history and we didn't 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.680 touch on it last time, but you you breed horses, 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:20.760 they're rich. Irogen steak candas right now, and there's something 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:22.880 too before you even dive in, because I know you're 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.320 gonna jump in, and that's exactly what I want you 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.160 to do. I want to say that I have I 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.920 you know, when you think about breeding dogs or breeding animals. 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.160 You think that you're dealing with things that are like 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:41.800 really tangible, but oftentimes it's the intangible characteristics qualities of 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.680 these animals that people that just have a knack for 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.600 breeding animals understand. And by a knack for breeding animals, 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.840 anybody can put two male and females together and make 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.760 a litter puss. But to breed animals that have long term, 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:59.560 consistent deduction of the qualities that you're after. Okay, here, 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.320 here's here's something I hate to say, but you have 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:07.800 to say you you are probably born. You are probably 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.560 born with an instinct to either be able to do 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.000 it or not. Okay, So I believe that that there's 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:18.200 there's natural human beings that are I call him master breeders, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.120 and some people don't like that term, but but I 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.880 believe there. Gola Ferguson was the first master breeder that 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.680 I know. Okay. He he took a bunch of animals 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.760 and each generation got better. Okay, and I'm I'm still 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.679 using dogs from that generation, those generations of his. But 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.440 but first off, I had to say that you probably 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.520 you may have it the ability, you may not have 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.040 the ability, but if you do have it, you have 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:48.880 to hone it. So Colton originally started out, you just 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:50.880 didn't want the puffs that he was picking, okay, because 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.480 they're they're the big, slumpy, the funny one that you know, 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:54.719 the one that you want on the porch and you 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.040 want to lay on your lap or stuff. But I mean, 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.360 my granddad was a great breeder of draft horses and 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.600 mules and all sorts of stuff and showcattle. Okay, so 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.680 Colton headed in there, but he had to hone that. 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.559 So craft yeah, yeah, so he so he his little 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.000 eyes watched his I said, well that looks kind of 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.160 like Reno, and that kind of looks like scar and 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.320 and they see that look in her eye. Well you 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.160 know this pup here, this looks like the right pup. 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:18.800 So he picked Usher and that was that was the 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:20.640 very first time that he passed. You know, he passed 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.839 in flight. So on the previous podcast we talked about 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.160 how so Culton's here with this Culton's Coulton is a 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.520 Steve Sun twenty one years old. And then you picked 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.199 up you picked this dog Buster. So that's why your Ferr, 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.679 which turned out to be a great dog. And there 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.400 was the test. There was something that just jumped into 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.839 the podcast. You said, son, do you see the same thing. 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.800 I see. There's a nine nine pups, and you picked 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.040 the one that your dad I think. I think I 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.160 actually used to just pick the biggest one, the biggest 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.000 puff out of the litter, you know, the biggest. I 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:53.760 think that's what there are people do that and then 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.719 sometimes they always picked the smallest. But the you need 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.720 to pick pick the one that that that acts the 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.000 most and looks the most and resembles the most to 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.360 the to the best dogs you've had in the past past. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.000 So so that's part of it, okay, But then breeding 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.520 it's it's you have to use the word gut feeling 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.680 in my gut when I when I made that those 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.880 first two crosses here, I was some kid that you know, 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.360 from from a from a good family, you know, Dwayne heard. 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.600 But but I had a gut feeling that if I 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.120 did this, it was gonna work, okay, because I had 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.080 seen the Judd dog and that's the way he was read. 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:29.880 And so my gut told me if I did the 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:31.440 same thing that the other people have done, I was 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.840 gonna it was gonna work. And it did, and it did, okay. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.120 But there you were using you were using pedigrees, Yes, 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.080 very much, and you still do. When somebody tells me 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:42.640 they don't give a ding about a pedigree, And I 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.800 would mention some very famous plot me in from the 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.600 past that said they didn't give a rats rear about 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.160 a pedigree. And guess what, they never read for more 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.720 than one generation. They would breed and they sell, and 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.000 they never produced. They never produced three generations ever. And 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.280 it's extreme. I've said it in my article for your myazing. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:04.120 It's extremely hard to breed for three generations and and 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.920 not lose what you started with. Because people make bad 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.960 decisions because they're gut told them to do something that 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.160 probably shouldn't have been done. Okay, but there's just there's 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:18.600 there's there's tangible deals. Uh, so many things. The color 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:20.840 of a dog can make a difference because that that 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.360 dog inherited that color coat from some dogs in the past. 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.880 So were those lighter brintle dogs, were they as good 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.440 as the darker brintle dogs. Well, history tells you know 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:32.440 they weren't. So you first off, you have to know 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:34.880 the history of what you're doing, whether you're breeding horses 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.280 once again or anything. And and see that would be 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:40.800 a little bit of a controversial thing, right Exactly. A 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.520 lot of people say, well, color doesn't matter at all. Yeah, okay, 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:47.000 but but for each strain it does. Okay, if you're 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.679 if you're gonna go, if you're gonna go buy you 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.600 a milk cow and you wanted a lot of production, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.440 You're not gonna go buy a Herford cow. You're gonna 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.160 go buy a cow with great, big white cow with 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.720 big black spots on them. Okay, because you know why 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.240 that color is a holsting and they produce milk indicator. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.319 It's an indicator. Well, And and once again I had 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.559 Dan Wagner's a good buddy of mine, and we talked 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.280 genetics all the time, and even and he he doesn't 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.320 want to agree, kind of Daniel, you'll enjoy this, but 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.840 but he but he does, but he does, you know, 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.480 agree that somehow I see something that other people don't see. 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:23.679 And and there's just certain things in a dog. And 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.360 if I there's a certain look to a dog, and 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.520 if I see it could be the color could be 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.120 a little bit handy looking, feet might be a little 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.840 bit spreadled, and and that I exclude that dog from 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:37.520 from my from even my possibilities. Okay, and so someday 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.120 down the line, said Stella died five weeks breakdant to 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.000 Bold said, you know, maybe somewhere down line, I'm going 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:45.360 to trip up, and I'm not gonna be able to 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.240 find that dog I need to great, although I think 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.800 there's a lot of possibilities out there still, Okay, and 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.280 uh So it's it's what do you if we could 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.440 even dial it back, Okay, go ahead, what would you 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:02.400 say the fundamentals of uh and and and maybe that's 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.840 what you've been talking about. What what are the fundamentals 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:09.480 of good three? The greatest dogs I've ever seen were 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.000 from the greatest pedigrees that I've ever seen, and those 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.760 and a great pedigree means that these dogs were. But 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.040 when you when you look at a pedigree, when you 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:23.040 look at Judge pedigree, you saw, you know, one of 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.280 the best reproducers in the nation right there, You're you're 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:31.160 looking at the greatest the greatest female. Uh the greatest 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.480 two females in the nation at that time. We're right 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.440 there and so and they were all complete really related 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:40.720 cousins to each other. So how could you how could 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.600 you not be right by attempting to do this. Now, 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.760 I have made my mistakes, but I buried my mistakes. Okay, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.440 I mean, you know, some of those gut feeings didn't 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:54.040 quite work out, but even them, even then, sometimes those 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.920 gut feelings, I knew, I'm not sure about this, but 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.840 let's give it a try. And sometimes it just flat 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.959 didn't work. And and sometimes you can take two dogs 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:06.679 that are really well bred, but they share a common ancestor. Uh, 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.880 my Cindy female was really hyper well. One time, accidentally 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:11.719 we made it a daughter of Cindy to a mail 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.040 to uh, to a female of Cindy. And and somebody 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.920 thought that would be a wonderful petigree. It should look 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.800 It looked good on paper, but I knew that's if 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.120 you put Cindy in there that close twice, that something 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:26.480 was gonna work. So so I would I would wish 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.320 like heck that I could have talked to Golda Ferguson, 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:32.960 because he said that with each generation he started, he added, 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:37.160 he added a high tan, kind of a black and tan, 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.360 but not a like a registered black and tanbit he 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.520 ordered added a high tan into his plot family and 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.080 produced the saddleback plots, which would have been North Carolina, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.600 Tom and Nichols, Stormy and all those. And with each 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.560 generation his dogs got a little smaller and a little darker, 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.440 and eventually they were all There's no there was no 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.760 light colored dogs lifting there. Okay, so the light daughter 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.040 the light. There's be a lot of people listen to 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:02.760 this plot, people that say, well, you know, my dogs 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.240 are light colored and they suit me fine. But they're 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.200 from a different strain than what I'm talking. Okay. And 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.600 if you had an Isaiah kid dog or Croctitter crocodigle, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.480 they're gonna be light because that's what color they were. Okay, 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.160 So if you want to go catch a hog and 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.360 you want a Tator crocod dog, they're gonna be lighter 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.760 colored dogs. And that I'm not taking anything away from them. 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.360 I'm just saying the wams Bluff Greek strain did as 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.640 falls and strain. They what you were doing your best 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:30.680 dogs with the darker dog and then the color of white. Uh. There. 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.160 I went to plot the in m p A h 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.080 A National Plot Hand So yeah, m P h A 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.240 about five years ago, and what I saw in the 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.160 grounds was earth shaking. It was I just saw dogs 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.680 of every color. I would see one litter of puppies 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:47.680 out of a Grand Knight Champion mail and there was 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.080 seven pups in there, and there was six different colors 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.520 of pups in the litter, and white all over them. 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:58.240 Well that white. Some of the plots back in the 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.280 past had some white in them. But I have a 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.520 whole stack of pictures right here in front of me, okay, 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.160 And if you look through them, and I show you 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.800 all the all, the very best, the very best twelve 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.560 and the very best twenty, there's not one dog, not 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.200 one single dog with excessive white on the on their 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.080 They have a lot of them have white on their 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.000 on their on their chest, but up their legs. Never, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:22.200 not once ever that shows impurity. It always has. And 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.840 by the way, when my dad got in, dad loved 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.359 those dogs and he kept thinking he needed more of them, 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.880 and he got several dogs from several people. I have 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:32.600 the pictures in here right here. I'll show them for 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.440 you before you leave. And and and the ones that 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.800 didn't look like plots, did not hunt like plots. The 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.320 ones that had the white all over them, and they 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.360 were there was it. You just went backwards immediately. So uh, 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.840 And there's there's just there's a lot of just little 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.160 teeny things that I believe makes the difference between breeding 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.160 good dogs and breeding exceptional dogs. But most of it 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.640 is eyesight, and a lot of us is hunting, and 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.240 a lot of it is you know, when you send 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.880 the puppies out, let everybody, let's let you know, like 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.400 your ferm female, I need to know exactly how that 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.840 letter turned out, Okay, And would I make it again? 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:07.840 Of course I would, you know if if if buster 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.200 was still a love, of course I would. So, So 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.000 what talk to me about line breeding? And you're because 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.400 that's that's something that maybe a lot of people wouldn't 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.880 you know, have steered away from a lot of people 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.880 would probably it was totally familiar with it. It It was taboo. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.280 Linebreeding originally was taboo you want unrelated dogs. Well, when 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.680 as soon as you did, you just killed whatever you had, Okay, 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.080 I mean by killing, I'm talking about you killed the genetics, 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.600 so what you had. So then later it was became 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.000 what they kind of called liebreeding, which would you bread 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:39.920 a cousin to a cousin, which means that you know, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.840 three generation pedigree. You'd have maybe two dogs and there 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.399 who were either brother and sister or were similar or whatever. 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.280 And then all of a sudden we found out that 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.480 maybe the closer you bread those dogs, the better they did. 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.119 And then we started doing inbreeding, which was you know, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.000 bare Pats Gunner to to to Becky. They were both 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.560 by the same daddy and their mother. There were three 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.119 quarters sisters, and we breed made that cross and oh 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.240 my gosh, the pups were better than anything before. So 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.679 so when you when you keep adding real good stuff 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.959 to the mix, it doesn't dilute the mix. It increases 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.000 the chances of that of the mixed working. And so 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:20.879 what people the kind of the colloquial knowledge I guess, 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.520 if that's a good way to say it of inbreeding 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.359 would be that you'd produced dogs that were inferior in 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.720 some way and that five legs and run back have 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.840 real big health problems. Let me let me I would 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.440 like to make a statement about that, because my some 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.360 people have had my my uncle got a Schnauzer. They 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:46.080 were big into Schnauzers. They bought these schnauzers and they 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.440 bought them from a reputable breeder quote unquote, quote unquote, 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.320 and the dogs end up having health problems when they 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.000 were older, and he found out that they were bred 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:59.240 real clothes, and he said, yeah, inbreeding is bad, or 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.120 you know, slide breeding is bad. The difference between what 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.720 that breeder was doing with Schnauzers and what you guys 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.119 are doing with bear dogs is that these dogs are 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.879 being bred based upon performance in the field over the 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:18.080 lifetime and so health problems. I mean, point me, and 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.520 those Schnauzers were just bred to be house dogs and 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.800 have these phenotype or just this external look. You guys 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.480 are breeding for physical performance and if they don't have it, 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.480 you you're limited. You don't So that that to me 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.359 makes rational sense of how and then all these dogs 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.880 aren't physically have some problem and and and once again 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:40.800 back to the article. If folks, if you haven't seen 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.119 the article, you really need to read it as you 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.840 as you read your dogs really close. If if you 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.400 do have a physical fault or something shows up, then 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.840 you can eliminate it from the gene pool. Okay, I 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.160 mean you're harvesting off the bed jeans and and eliminating 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.800 sometimes and this isn't what you're doing over and over 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.120 every time. I mean, it's a the most I don't 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.120 want to I want to say that right away. It's 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.280 an extreme case where you would breathe as close as 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.320 the gunner back across. Yeah, And you know I haven't 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:10.760 done it again, but I would, if you know, if 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:12.359 I thought yeah. And I just want to make that 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.199 clear because somebody you're not saying you're breathing brother and 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.520 sister together all the time. No, no, no, no, no 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:23.639 no no. But but don't do not not make a 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.160 cross because you're afraid to do close. Give it a try, 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:28.199 give it a try again. And once again, my famous 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.840 statement is I never regretted across I ever made, because 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:33.919 I could eliminate it if it didn't work. But I 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.640 so desperately I'd never read the jud dog to Sue, 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:39.040 and they were half brother and sister, and I wish 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:40.520 I would have, but people thought it was too close. 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.119 And so I will regret forever the crosses that I 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.199 did not make with you know, with them. That's a 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.639 good statement right there, that you'll never regret across that 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.000 you did make because you can correct it. But you 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.879 do regret the crosses that you didn't make from because 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.879 they're gone. You're gone. Yeah, Dad had a chance. Dad 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.080 had a chance to take real grand Trouble to Cape Gerard, 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:05.120 Missouri and breed to Rag Nicholas's world famous stormy dog. 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:07.920 It was her uncle. Most people thought it was too close, 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:09.760 But had he have done that, it would have been 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.640 the strongest bloodline cross ever made in the plot breed 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:14.760 as far as I know. Okay, it would have been 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.160 nor it would have been a smokey Cubby on top 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.480 bread to a daughter of a smoky cubby onto a 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.520 daughter of of plots Fanny and Lady. But it would 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:26.040