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Speaker 1: Cool Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Robert here, it is the end of the year.

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Speaker 2: You're cooling down from a Christmas, you know, still probably

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Speaker 2: finishing up pie and other goodies that you got. I

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Speaker 2: hope you had a good one. We're all bracing for

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Speaker 2: the new year to come. Behind the Bastards is of

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Speaker 2: course continuing to publish as we normally do around this

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Speaker 2: time of year, but we've also got some specials for

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Speaker 2: you from elsewhere in our network. And today we have

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Speaker 2: collected two great episodes from Cool People Who Did Cool

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Speaker 2: Stuff about all of the people who tried to kill

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Speaker 2: Benito Mussolini. This is with the great Margaret Killjoy. I

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Speaker 2: think it is very fitting for the end of this year.

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Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. We're

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Speaker 3: back in case you noticed we weren't here, but now

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Speaker 3: we're here. The we in this case is me Murder Killjoy,

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Speaker 3: and my producer Sophie Hi Sophie by Pie, and my

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Speaker 3: guest Robert Evans Hi Magpie.

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Speaker 2: I listened to when I was buying Hey today, right

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Speaker 2: before this, I went to go get hay for my

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Speaker 2: livestock at the feed store and they were playing that

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Speaker 2: song Brandy, And so now I am in my head

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Speaker 2: remixing that song instead of being about a woman whose

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Speaker 2: lover dies at sea, to be about you making podcasts excellent.

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Speaker 3: Well, we can make hay from that one time Robert

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Speaker 3: and I went and got hey, and it was the

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Speaker 3: first time in a little while at my pickup truck

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Speaker 3: got to be a pickup truck. Besides well, I guess

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Speaker 3: it was a camper. Actually, we filled my camper full

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Speaker 3: of hay, is what happened. Yes, And it took me

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Speaker 3: a long time to get all the hay out.

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Speaker 2: It does take a long time to get all the

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Speaker 2: hay out, Yeah, but.

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Speaker 3: It was worth it because then the goats got to

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Speaker 3: eat hay, and the goats love hay.

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Speaker 4: So, speaking of this week, speaking of saying hey, oh,

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Speaker 4: we should say hey to Rory, who's our audio engineer?

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Speaker 3: Hi Rory, Hi, riight, hy Rory? And our theme musical

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Speaker 3: was written for us by unwoman and for no particular reason,

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Speaker 3: not at all. I actually genuinely picked the subject and

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Speaker 3: started researching it before the activities that happened last week.

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Speaker 4: You did like like I can vouch for you.

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Speaker 3: And I'm glad you don't Belee, don't to vouch for

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Speaker 3: me in court about it.

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Speaker 4: I'm just but but I would, and it would I

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Speaker 4: would be truthful. I have like documentation full.

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Speaker 3: It's true because the thing we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 3: Robert Evans, have you ever heard of people trying to

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Speaker 3: assassinate people that they don't like.

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Speaker 2: No assassinations. No one would ever do such a thing.

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Speaker 2: No one would ever do such a thing and then

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Speaker 2: have it immediately cause Blue Cross Blue Shield to reverse

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Speaker 2: the policy on denying claims arbitrarily when the surgery takes

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Speaker 2: too long to pay for anesthetic. That would never happen.

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Speaker 3: No, there's not a whole saying about direct action gets

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Speaker 3: the goods. You all are listening to this in the

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Speaker 3: future where the knock on effects will have become more clear.

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Speaker 3: But right now we know very We only know one

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Speaker 3: knock on effect of last week.

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Speaker 2: Which is, if you've got Blue Cross, you now have

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Speaker 2: to be less worried about getting surgery.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and waking up in the middle of surgery, which

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Speaker 3: is basically everyone's nightmare.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Literally, that is.

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Speaker 4: So like, so many people have that fear and that

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Speaker 4: it's gulish. Yeah, so grulish. It's so gross.

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Speaker 3: Well, the person that we're going to talk about attempting

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Speaker 3: to assassinate in the past who's already dead is a

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Speaker 3: little fascist he might have heard of named Mussolini.

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Speaker 2: Mussolini, I hardly know Leini, Okay, pass and it's not

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Speaker 2: gonna work.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, Mussolini. Originally this was going to be a two

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Speaker 3: parter where one part was the people who tried when

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Speaker 3: Mussolini was coming up, and then the second part was

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Speaker 3: going to be people who succeeded when he was coming down.

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Speaker 3: But it's actually all going to be about people who

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Speaker 3: tried when he was coming up because there were so

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Speaker 3: many Did you know that an awful lot of people

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Speaker 3: tried to kill Mussolini?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean it's like with Hitler, right, Like you've

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Speaker 2: got that guy who tried to blow him up and

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Speaker 2: that and almost did that fucking carpenter who tried to

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Speaker 2: blow him up in one of the halls. He was

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Speaker 2: speaking at all sorts of pre attempts. So I wasn't

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Speaker 2: really familiar with the ones on Mussolini, but I was

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Speaker 2: sure there had been some.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about I think eight of them

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Speaker 3: today or this week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like the right them ount Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so far by my account, I was counting. Right

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Speaker 3: before I recorded, I was talking to one of my

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Speaker 3: friends about it. So far, by my account, we've got

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Speaker 3: one socialist, one Catholic, one Republican, and five anarchists attempted

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Speaker 3: to kill Mussolini. So Benito Mussolini is famously one of

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Speaker 3: the founders of fascism. The ideology that is genuinely and

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Speaker 3: truly bad. That ninety five percent of the people on

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Speaker 3: this planet agree is bad. We just don't agree about

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Speaker 3: what counts as fascism.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's part of the problem.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it doesn't help that. I mean, because some

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Speaker 3: people use fascism to just being anyone I don't like

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Speaker 3: or any authoritarianism, right, and that's not an accurate way

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Speaker 3: to talk about things. We shouldn't call our enemies fascists

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Speaker 3: when they're not fascists.

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Speaker 2: Now, like Stalin wasn't really a fascist, No, because in

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Speaker 2: part fascists come to power through popular acclaim as a

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Speaker 2: result of like setting themselves up in opposition to the left.

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Speaker 2: There's this also idea that Stalin does kind of fit

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Speaker 2: in with the attitude that like the fascist dictator embodies

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Speaker 2: the people in some way, although the way in which

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Speaker 2: like Soviet propaganda talk about Stalin was actually quite different

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Speaker 2: from the way fascist propaganda tends to talk about the

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Speaker 2: leader being like an embodiment of the people. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: there are some similarities, like there's a bunch of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Syncretism is a big part. Go read your umburdo.

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Speaker 3: Echo. Well, there's gonna be a bunch of emburdos in

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Speaker 3: this episode, but not Echo. Yeah, but it turns out

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Speaker 3: on Birdo is sort of the mic of Italy. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: mcla is probably the mic of Italy. But fascism is

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Speaker 3: one of the most convoluted and complex political ideologies to

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Speaker 3: ever come about, which is one of the reasons why

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Speaker 3: you can kind of point to anything and call it

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Speaker 3: fascism and be wrong, but also be like, you see

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Speaker 3: where you're coming from about it, you know, because it's

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Speaker 3: not actually a simple ideology. The more as I was

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Speaker 3: reading this, because Italian fascism in particular comes out of

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Speaker 3: where they're right and the left meet, and it is

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Speaker 3: not a Well we'll talk about this. I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to get too deep into the weeds of defining fascism today,

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Speaker 3: but I want to talk first about someone who one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent absolutely I am certain would have been fine

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Speaker 3: with assassinating someone like Benito Mussolini. About fifteen years before

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Speaker 3: Benito Mussolini came to power. That man who would have

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Speaker 3: been totally fine with killing Benito Mussolini was Benito Mussolini.

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Speaker 2: Oh because well yeah, yeah, I know that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to open up a can of orbs that the

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Speaker 3: Internet is not equipped to handle. Benito Mussolini, the founder

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Speaker 3: of the world's deadliest far right ideology, started on the left.

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Speaker 2: Yep, he sure did. Uh kind of adjacent to anarchism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to talk about that. There's gonna be

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Speaker 3: a lot of also started as a journalist, hooray. Uh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: he was a socialist for a long ass time. He

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Speaker 3: was at least a second generation leftist. Mussolini was born

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Speaker 3: in the year eighteen eighty three and he was the

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Speaker 3: child of a blacksmith socialist and a Catholic school teacher.

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Speaker 3: He got named after a series of socialists and leftists

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Speaker 3: because of his father, and then he was baptized Catholic

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Speaker 3: because of his mom. He's named Benito after Benito Juarez,

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Speaker 3: the liberal president of Mexico, and his middle names, which

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Speaker 3: I forgot to look up in a Italian are Andrea

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Speaker 3: and Amalakare And these are after two anarchists because his

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Speaker 3: father was part of the Anarchist International, which was an

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Speaker 3: anti authoritarian socialist organization in the eighteen seventies. I'm just

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Speaker 3: going straight into the like the this is like when

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Speaker 3: I have to talk about eugenics on this show, you know,

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Speaker 3: whenever I have to talk about something that was like

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Speaker 3: really common and easily understood in the nineteenth century, that

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Speaker 3: makes no sense in the twenty first century. Italian nationalism

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Speaker 3: is really intertwined with the left, and it's really intertwined

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Speaker 3: with anarchism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that, I mean it makes sense when you're

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Speaker 2: coming out of a world well not very long before

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Speaker 2: this period, Italy had been fucking Habsburg property. Much of

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Speaker 2: Italy at least had been Habsburg property, right, and when

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Speaker 2: all of these things that we now just see is like, well,

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Speaker 2: obviously Italy is a country, obviously Croatia is a country.

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Speaker 2: When they're all the property of some guy in his

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Speaker 2: inbred family, it's a lot less weird that it's a

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Speaker 2: left wing position to talk about nationalism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. Benito Mussolini never did really roll with the anarchists.

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Speaker 3: He kind of wanted to at different points. When he

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Speaker 3: was a socialist, he was firmly in the authoritarian socialist camp,

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Speaker 3: but he studied a lot of anarchist theory. He remained

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Speaker 3: friendly with anarchists. He was either dating or just friends with.

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Speaker 3: I've read both the anarchist orientalist poet named Lyda Rafanelli.

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Speaker 3: He translated two of the anarchist Peter Kropotkin's books from

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Speaker 3: French into Italian. And because yeah, he was journalists. He

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Speaker 3: read newspapers and kind of if you were a political

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Speaker 3: person in the nineteenth century, if you were like a

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Speaker 3: political leader, your thing was that you were a journalist.

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Speaker 3: Your thing is that you read a newspaper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's the same, it's the same. Reason

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Speaker 2: is that with the generation coming up and the next

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Speaker 2: generation are all going to get their starts on TikTok

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Speaker 2: and Twitter, and like we're already seeing this on the right, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean in the left to a degree. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's because that totally that's not the journalism. Tweeting is

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Speaker 2: not or making a TikTok is not journalism. But journalism

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Speaker 2: wasn't what we would consider journalism back then. It was

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Speaker 2: just the best way of getting propaganda to the masses.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was. Yeah, you wrote polemics, and propaganda

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Speaker 3: just literally meant propagating ideas. If you had an idea

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Speaker 3: and you want to have to tell people about it,

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Speaker 3: you would propagandize the idea. So Mussolini, the thing that's

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Speaker 3: going to come up throughout this week's story is that

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Speaker 3: he's clearly into authoritarianism, right, but there's something he liked

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Speaker 3: about the anarchists. He liked their courage, he liked their commitment,

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Speaker 3: and he liked action. You know, he was He wasn't

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Speaker 3: the kind of guy who wanted people to wait around

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Speaker 3: and talk about things. He wanted people to go out

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Speaker 3: and do things. He also, for a long time shared

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Speaker 3: their opinion that killing autocrats was just fine.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, there's a Vin diagram. We do may

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Speaker 2: not like to say it, but like there's a Vin diagram.

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Speaker 2: It points between me and Mussolini's life. Right, No, totally,

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Speaker 2: I'm not against killing early twentieth century autocrats theoretically.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, totally. Yeah, if we had a time machine,

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Speaker 3: we would feel justified in going back and killing absolute

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Speaker 3: monarchs from the nineteenth century and earlier.

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Speaker 2: Look, if I could go back in time and stab

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Speaker 2: the King of Italy.

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Speaker 3: I would try to Well, that's going to bring us

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Speaker 3: to this week's first assassin, is it the guy who

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Speaker 3: stabbed the King of Italy? I actually can't remember whether

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Speaker 3: this guy stabbed or shot him. This is the first Okay,

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Speaker 3: this is the only successful assassin we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about for a while. But he shaped a lot of

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Speaker 3: Italy's politics for a long time. And that man's name

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Speaker 3: was Gaetano Breshi. He was a weaver from Italy who

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Speaker 3: emigrated to the US in the nineteenth century to Patterson,

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Speaker 3: New Jersey. And it's kind of funny because there's all

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Speaker 3: of these different hidden, secret anarchist strongholds of the past.

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Speaker 3: I don't normally think about New Jersey when I think

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Speaker 3: about anarchism, but yeah, Addison, New Jersey very strong Italian

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Speaker 3: anarchist scene. The next little bit, because it's been a

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Speaker 3: little while since I've looked up Gatana Brescia. I used

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Speaker 3: to write about him a lot, so I'm kind of

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Speaker 3: going into a little bit story mode when I talk

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Speaker 3: about Gatana Breshci. I'm gonna have more direct sources for

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Speaker 3: the rest of the rest of the people. I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: talk about. So everyone knows Katana Breshi was hanging out

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Speaker 3: in New Jersey with his Irish wife, Sophie, which is

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Speaker 3: a good name, I agree, right, yeah, and his two daughters,

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Speaker 3: and she's gonna be all right in this story. Cool.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, cool, don't don't bring the name down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah no, no, she's great. No, no negative notes on Sophie.

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Speaker 3: In eighteen ninety eight, there are these food riots in

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Speaker 3: Italy and the government was like, well, a specific general

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Speaker 3: is like, why don't we just murder the entire crowd

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Speaker 3: that's rioting, And so they did that, and we will

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Speaker 3: think food riots, they usually think like, oh, everyone lost

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Speaker 3: their mind and was running around and burning things or whatever.

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Speaker 3: These were organized strikes that were met with lethal force.

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Speaker 3: At least eighty protesters and two soldiers were killed. Jesus

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Speaker 3: and so King umberto the first what did he do?

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Speaker 3: And everyone at the time was like, oh, the king

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Speaker 3: is the true you know. A lot of like populism

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Speaker 3: is based on the idea that the government's bad, but

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Speaker 3: the king's good, you know, and.

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Speaker 2: This translates to fascism too. Right during the Third Reich,

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Speaker 2: there was always this idea that like if only Hitler

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Speaker 2: knew right about the worst Nazi policies. Yeah yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is the same thing with the czar. Yeah yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: totally yeah.

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Speaker 3: We see this again and again, and so I think

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Speaker 3: everyone was kind of expecting Umberto to come in and

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Speaker 3: be like, well, he probably shouldn't have done that, right, Oh,

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Speaker 3: I did promise you more than one, Imberto, and this

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Speaker 3: is one of them. There'sn be another one, probably on Wednesday,

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Speaker 3: m But what Umberto the first did is awarded the

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Speaker 3: guy who ordered the massacre of Medal of Honor and

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Speaker 3: Katano Breshi. He didn't like that. He was living in

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Speaker 3: New Jersey with Sophie. He'd started an anarchist paper with

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Speaker 3: some folks, and he'd put up a fuck ton of

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Speaker 3: money to start that paper. It is like two bucks

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Speaker 3: at the time, which is like several thousand dollars now.

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Speaker 3: He didn't want anyone else to get in trouble for

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Speaker 3: what he decided to do, so he didn't tell anyone.

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Speaker 3: He didn't tell Sophie. He just told her he had

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Speaker 3: to go deal with some stuff, like family stuff in Italy.

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Speaker 3: He didn't tell his comrades. He went into the newspaper

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Speaker 3: and said, hey, all that seed money. I put in,

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Speaker 3: I need it back now, and they were like why

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Speaker 3: and he was like, the not your business, give me

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Speaker 3: my money back. And so everyone kind of thought he

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Speaker 3: was a sellout and he was just like getting his

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Speaker 3: money to go fuck off, right. Everyone thought he left

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Speaker 3: the movement. But he got his money back and he

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Speaker 3: bought two things. He bought a Smith and Wesson, and

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Speaker 3: he bought a one way ticket to Paris.

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Speaker 2: That's a song. That's a warren Zevon song right there.

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Speaker 2: Smith and Wesson and a one way ticket to Paris. Excellent.

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Speaker 3: And the King is gonna die And unlike a lot

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Speaker 3: of would be assassins that we've talked about on this show,

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Speaker 3: Breshi practiced with the revolver, which is always key.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he made his way probably to Rome. He made

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Speaker 3: his way to Italy. He spent two days scouting out

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Speaker 3: the area where he knew the King was going to be.

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Speaker 3: And then on July twenty ninth, nineteen hundred, he went out.

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Speaker 3: He got some ice cream. I think he had lunch

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Speaker 3: with like a stranger and just hanging out and he

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Speaker 3: was like, you're gonna remember me guy, and then he

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Speaker 3: waited for umberto to come through waiting in the crowd

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Speaker 3: that was all there to cheer on their you know,

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Speaker 3: glorious leader, and uh he shot Umberto to death. The

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Speaker 3: crowd immediately grabbed him. Gaetano said, I did not kill Umberto.

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Speaker 3: I have killed the king. I have killed a principal.

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Speaker 2: Hell oh, oh, that's that's a good line. That's a

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Speaker 2: good line.

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Speaker 3: Back home in New Jersey, his anarchist friends were like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I guess we judged him wrong, and they started a

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Speaker 3: fund to look after his kids and support his family.

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Speaker 3: His wife came to Italy and testified to his good

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Speaker 3: character in court. His whole family was like arrested in

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Speaker 3: an investigation into conspiracy, but eventually everyone was let go,

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Speaker 3: and Italy, under a king was actually had a more

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Speaker 3: fair criminal justice system than the United States does today.

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Speaker 3: They didn't have the death penalty. Musolini's going to bring

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Speaker 3: that back later, so he gets life in prison. He

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Speaker 3: was held in solitary confinement. He had one hour a

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Speaker 3: day of exercises, like feet were like manacled to the floor.

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Speaker 3: They didn't treat him great. Less than a year later

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Speaker 3: he was found hanging in his cell, and modern historians

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Speaker 3: are recentably certain he was murdered. At the time, everyone's like, nah,

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Speaker 3: I just killed himself. Interestingly enough, this assassination didn't bring

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Speaker 3: in sweeping reactionary forces or anything like usually people are like, ah,

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Speaker 3: you killed the king and something worse is going to happen.

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Speaker 3: This changed things, but it the existing like kind of

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Speaker 3: leftist government stayed in power, and things kind of chugged along. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it didn't even lead to they like crack down on

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Speaker 3: the anarchist movement, but they didn't come through and destroy it.

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Speaker 3: It did lead to more international cooperation between law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: When I first started dreaming up this show years ago,

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Speaker 3: it was kind of in a different context and I

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Speaker 3: wanted to talk about anarchist history and I was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, they literally invented international policing to stop us.

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Speaker 3: Why are all of our books boring? Has been my

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Speaker 3: like go to tagline because they did. International policing exists

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Speaker 3: because of trying to stop the anarchist movement. Because yep,

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Speaker 3: nothing gets people to work together, Like like when people

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Speaker 3: go around and kill like poor people, everyone's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that sucks. Whatever. When people go around and kill kings,

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Speaker 3: kings work together to make sure that that stops.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, kings are great at like really union behave

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Speaker 2: they really work like unions royalty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when when someone comes for them as a class,

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Speaker 3: they band together.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: One person who defended Gaetano Breshi doing a little king

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Speaker 3: murder was a man by the name of Benito Mussolini.

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Speaker 3: His fellow socialists were claiming Bresci was crazy for having

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Speaker 3: killed the king.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: Mussolini said that tarrann Aside was quote the occupational hazard

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Speaker 3: of being a king, which I don't know I.

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Speaker 2: Mean talking about occupational hazards. Yeah, I feel confident saying

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Speaker 2: that being a king is a pre existing condition.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally. But what isn't a pre existing No,

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Speaker 3: But what else we're obliged to do is play ads

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Speaker 3: for you now, Yeah, like these ones and we're back.

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Speaker 3: Now this might shock you, Robert, did you know mus

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Speaker 3: didn't stay leftist? Really?

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Speaker 2: Now? I thought you were talking about Binny Mussolini, the

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Speaker 2: man who invented the three day weekend.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was reading a whole bunch on on that

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Speaker 3: website X about how actually the fascists or socialists and leftists.

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Speaker 2: You're, of course referring to the website that just plays

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Speaker 2: a looping video of the song X Gonna give It

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Speaker 2: to You. That's where I get all of my historical

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Speaker 2: information about anarchists in the early nineteen hundreds as well.

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Speaker 3: Yes, uh huh, yeah, my ex feet is certainly playing

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Speaker 3: looping videos of something right now. And so Mussolini was

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Speaker 3: kicked out of the Socialist Party because he supported interventionism,

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Speaker 3: he supported Italy fighting in World War One, and along

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Speaker 3: the way he started developing his theories on fascism, which

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Speaker 3: was basically, what if you took revolutionary socialism and then

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Speaker 3: replaced it with revolutionary nationalism. Instead of class solidarity, you

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Speaker 3: had national solidarity. What if you made all of the

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Speaker 3: poor people suck up to the rich people and then

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Speaker 3: defend the nation as a concept the leftist trappings and

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Speaker 3: some of the leftists strategies, but with right wing goals

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Speaker 3: because at the time, right wing was just like the

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Speaker 3: status quo. Right if you defend like the monarchy or whatever,

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Speaker 3: your right wing, so there's nothing really revolutionary about it.

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Speaker 3: But fascism was like, no, but we want the revolution

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Speaker 3: and we want to like feel cool and edgy, but

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Speaker 3: we also want to we really like the taste of boots,

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Speaker 3: and so we're going to become fascists and invent this

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Speaker 3: new ideology. For a few years, a lot of politics

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Speaker 3: in Italy was happening in the streets, fascist versus anti

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Speaker 3: fascists fighting it out, and for a good several years,

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Speaker 3: Mussolini tried to make common cause with the anarchists, specifically

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Speaker 3: to join him against the socialists and the communists. After all,

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Speaker 3: this is the period where the Bolsheviks and Russia were

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Speaker 3: murdering anarchists on Moss and so some folks there's a

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Speaker 3: chance that Mussolini even going to go anarchists during this time.

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Speaker 3: I actually don't buy it, but I read one person

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Speaker 3: making this argument. He actually risked alienating his base with

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Speaker 3: how much he appreciated the anarchists. Interesting because his base

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Speaker 3: was like, no, those are the people we just go

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Speaker 3: fight in the streets. But Mussolini kind of admires their commitment, right,

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Speaker 3: and the anarchists don't want him. Mussolini said, quote, we

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Speaker 3: are always ready to admire men who are willing to

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Speaker 3: die for a faith they believe in selflessly. And this

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Speaker 3: came contrasting the anarchists to the cowardly socialists. The anarchists,

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Speaker 3: in so many words, told him to eat shit and die.

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Speaker 3: They refuse his overtures again and again, and soon enough

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Speaker 3: they're going to try really really hard to just outright

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Speaker 3: kill this man. The most famous Italian anarchist then and

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Speaker 3: now is this guy named Erico Malatesta. He's popped into

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Speaker 3: a bunch of our stories on the show, like when

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Speaker 3: comrades got him to Argentina by smuggling him in a

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Speaker 3: crate of sewing machines, and then he helped the Baker's

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Speaker 3: Union there become the most radical union in that country,

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Speaker 3: and the model that all the other unions rush to follow.

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Speaker 3: And how today in Argentina there are still pastries named

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Speaker 3: by the anarchist Bakers, like little books and little bombs.

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Speaker 3: I really like Malatesta. He's always in and out of jail.

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Speaker 3: He's an older fellow now, I think he's in his

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Speaker 3: sixties at this point that we're talking about. And while

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Speaker 3: he's in prison in Italy, there's a huge campaign to

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Speaker 3: free him, and who supports that campaign but Benito Mussolini,

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Speaker 3: even though his followers are fighting the anarchists in the

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Speaker 3: streets during this time, Malatesta gets out and he can't

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Speaker 3: get any paper for his newspapers because of political pressure.

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Speaker 3: Against him, and Mussolini offers him paper to print on

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Speaker 3: and Mala Testa is like no, what No, So Mussolini

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Speaker 3: keeps trying to be friends with them. But some anarchists

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Speaker 3: and folks from every ideology did turn fascist, right, because

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Speaker 3: you can't have a new ideology without starting with people

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Speaker 3: who used to have other ideologies. An awful lot of

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Speaker 3: anarchists turn fascist. Orwell has a really good essay about this.

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Speaker 3: George Orwell has a really good essay about this called

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Speaker 3: Notes on Nationalism that basically lays out the case that

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Speaker 3: a lot of political extremists are into extremism, not the

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Speaker 3: idea that the extremism is attached to. So you get

429
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 3: people going from the radical left to the radical right

430
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 3: reasonably often. And this unfortunately ties into the first time

431
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 3: that I've found of someone trying to kill Mussolini. Some

432
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: anarchists got together in nineteen twenty one, before Mussolini ever

433
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 3: even took formal power. He does that nineteen twenty two,

434
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 3: and they're like, all right, we got to kill this guy.

435
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: They delegated one among their number, a man named Biaggio Massi,

436
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 3: to go kill Mussolini. Instead, Biaggio went to Mussolini and

437
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 3: told him the whole plan. Mussolini protected him, and then

438
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 3: the very next day, because Mussolini is just being I

439
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 3: don't know, connin or whatever, yeah, goes and gives a

440
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,239
Speaker 3: speech about how the government needs to really release malat Testa, right,

441
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 3: even though he has just learned the anarchists or trying

442
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 3: to kill him. He's a forty chess kind of man,

443
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 3: this Mussolini.

444
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, unfortunately he is.

445
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 4: He was.

446
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: I mean, one thing you learned about Mussolini and all

447
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 2: these guys, the exception of Franco, who unfortunately kept a

448
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 2: pretty good grip on his rationality throughout his life, is

449
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: most of them are a lot more cunning and better

450
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: at planning before they get into power. And it's almost

451
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: like power damages your brain in a way that makes

452
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: you less capable of like clamping down on your own

453
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: worse impulses and analyzing things logically.

454
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: That makes sense to me. There's also this thing where

455
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 3: people are always like Mussolini's like the little brother of Hitler,

456
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: you know, and he's kind of a joke because Italy's

457
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 3: military might is not the same as Germany's. Right, Mussolini

458
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 3: pulled off something pretty incredible, like terrible evil, but like

459
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: he did become dictator of a major country. That is

460
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 3: like a hard thing to do.

461
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I could become dictator of Italy. Yeah, no,

462
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 2: I know, but you get you give me six months, Margaret, Okay,

463
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: six months and a lot of pizza pies. If we

464
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: know anything about our Italians, Uh, Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut's

465
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 2: probably fine.

466
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: I really like the pizza in Italy.

467
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

468
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 3: I like how every country, not every country, but most

469
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: countries I've been to, the American version of their national

470
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: food is hard to get vegan, but in the country

471
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 3: that I'm in, it's actually reasonably easy. Like it's really

472
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: easy to just go into any train station in Aley

473
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 3: and buy vegan pizza.

474
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 2: You could feel about how this however you want, but

475
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: undeniably like one of the most intense flexes in the

476
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 2: history of international conflict is when the US had the

477
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: former premiere of the Soviet Union become a spokesman for

478
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: Pizza Hut. Like it's just such a wow. Well I guess, yeah,

479
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: I guess you guys lost that God with Jesus Jesus.

480
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 3: So Mussolini comes to power in October nineteen twenty two. First,

481
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 3: as the prime minister, there's something that's like, not not

482
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: a coup. I mean it's not a coup, but it's

483
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 3: also not not a coup. Right, thirty thousand of his

484
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 3: black Shirts, his personal army, marched on Rome. In the

485
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: March on Rome. The liberal government was like, hey, let's

486
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: declare martial law to stop this, but then the king

487
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: was like, no, let's just put that guy in charge instead.

488
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 3: Mussolini immediately helped out the rich people. He was not

489
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 3: a fucking leftist at this point. Immediately helped out all

490
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 3: the rich people, centralized power, and just was a right

491
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: wing shit bag. By nineteen twenty four he was like, look,

492
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: there's not a democracy anymore. Okay, it's just fascism, and

493
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 3: Italy became fascist and people didn't really like that. There

494
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 3: are some occupational hazards to be in a dictator. First,

495
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: and most famous at the time but not the most

496
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 3: famous now, was a socialist politician named Tito Zanaboni. And

497
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 3: don't worry. If you're like, hey, that sounds like Zamboni

498
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 3: and you think that's clever, don't worry. There's two Zamboni's later. Okay, okay,

499
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 3: but this one's Xanaboni.

500
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: This is not a serious country. Look, I know we're

501
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: talking about serious things, but Italy, I just I'm sorry,

502
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 2: it's just not.

503
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 3: One time I was in Italy and my friend took

504
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 3: me to like her very nice apartment in oh I

505
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 3: don't remember which city. I was on tour for like

506
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 3: a month, and I went to a bunch of cities

507
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 3: and she was like, looks out, and I'm like, how

508
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: do you afford this like amazing, fantastic place. And she

509
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 3: goes to the window and points down to this like

510
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 3: public square right outside, and she's like, that's where the

511
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 3: mafia assassinate, like executes people in public. No one wants

512
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 3: to live here.

513
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 2: I mean, shit, you could do that in front of

514
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 2: my ass if I could have paid like, you know,

515
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: thirty percent less. Absolutely, Look, I'm not going I'm not

516
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: getting involved with the mafia. They got no reason to

517
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: be pissed at me. Yeah, I don't see shit.

518
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 3: Yeah you stay here?

519
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: Gunshots at night? I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, MafA, what.

520
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 3: Most of the places that have been really nice, that

521
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: like have been aesthetically really nice that I can afford

522
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 3: to live in, have had gunshots outside at night. Yeah,

523
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: that's true.

524
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: I mean I have twice been coming home to my

525
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: house when someone has a couple of blocks away been

526
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: shooting it out with the police.

527
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, a nice place to live, A nice

528
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 3: place to live, and like, I'm not the police, so

529
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: I'm not worried again.

530
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: Shot, I'm not the police. These people have no reason

531
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: to be angry at me.

532
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

533
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 3: So before we talk about Tito, we're gonna talk about

534
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: another Italian socialist politician, Jacomo Mattiatodi Madia Maddiodi.

535
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 5: And best friend Buca di Beppo Tacoma Maddio Maddieodi was

536
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 5: a socialist politician who tried repeatedly to expose most Mussolinian

537
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 5: fascism for what were After he published a book against

538
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 5: the fascists and accused them of fraud the fascists, who

539
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 5: were certainly people of action.

540
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: On June tenth, nineteen twenty four, Jacomo was kidnapped by

541
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: the Fascist secret police, who stabbed him to death with

542
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: a carpenter's file. I believe in the car. This wasn't

543
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: a lot of ways the thing that paved the way

544
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: for Mussolini to declare himself dictator. I'm going to oversimplify

545
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: this dangerously. But after a lot of handwringing and investigations

546
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 3: and castigations of the fascists for this kind of thing,

547
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: eventually Mussolini was like, look, I'm a fascist, though, I'm

548
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: in charge, and we're going to stab people to death

549
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 3: with Carpenter's files, and you're just going to deal with it.

550
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 3: This had an enormous amount of knock on effects. One

551
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: of them was that this other socialist politician, Tito Zanaboni,

552
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: he got real mad. He had been part of the

553
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 3: search efforts to find his friend. Before that, he'd been

554
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: part of signing a peace treaty between the socialists and

555
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: the fascists. But after they killed his friend, Oh yeah,

556
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 3: the socialist sign of peace treaty of the fascists. I

557
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 3: think that after I talk about all the like anarchists

558
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: who became fascists and stuff, it's worth pointing out the

559
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 3: socialist sign of peace treaty with the fascists. After they

560
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: killed his friend, He's like, all right, fuck this, we

561
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 3: gotta shoot this guy. And he and his friends conspired

562
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 3: to kill Massolini. Tito is a war hero, so he

563
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: got a precision rifle and he set himself up to

564
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 3: station himself in a window to shoot Mussolini from far away.

565
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 3: But among his co conspirators was an informant. So Tito

566
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: and actually a general in the army and the Italian

567
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 3: Army were both sent to prison. I think they got

568
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: the maximum sentence, which was thirty years. At the time, great,

569
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: the United Socialist Party was no more. In court, Tito

570
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: used the same defense as most of Mussolini's would be

571
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: assassins used later, which is the defense of yeah, but

572
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 3: fuck Mussolini, though somebody should shoot him. M h just

573
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 3: you know, not always the best way to get off

574
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: in court, but like, looks good in history books.

575
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, looks good. I mean there's right around this time

576
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: the case of Sagam Montalurian, who Berlin jury decided like,

577
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: oh no, no, it was totally fine that he assassinated

578
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: that guy who did a genocide. Oh yeah, politician.

579
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, we covered this one on the Armenian Genocide episode. Yeah.

580
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, everybody who might wind up in a

581
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: court in New York start looking up jury nullifications right now.

582
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.

583
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 4: So.

584
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: Tito is released in nineteen forty three when the Fascist

585
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 3: government fell, which is the other thing that comes up

586
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: a lot is that revolutionaries or in this case, I

587
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 3: mean it wasn't even a revolutionary, as a politician who

588
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, but other politicians shouldn't murder people, you know,

589
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: And people go to jail for a really long time.

590
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: Right wing governments often fall, and if you can stay

591
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: alive in jail long enough, you'll be free again. But

592
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: someone else was directly inspired by the death of Jacamo Mattiot.

593
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: One of my favorite strange and misunderstood assassins in history,

594
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 3: Violet Gibson. Have you heard of I feel like that

595
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: there's one I've heard the name.

596
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

597
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: If there's one assassin, people have probably heard of Violet Gibson.

598
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 3: This is the most widely known attempt on his life

599
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: in the modern era because it's the one that makes

600
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: the coolest social media headline.

601
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 4: Is there like a song?

602
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: There are there's actually there's songs about her, there's documentaries,

603
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 3: and I.

604
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 4: Really hope I'm thinking of the right person and also

605
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 4: sound dumb.

606
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: She was like really short, right, yeah, she's five foot

607
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 3: one yeah, yeah, okay.

608
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hell yeah. So I love stories about short

609
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: ladies doing badass. My grandma was like four foot eleven hell.

610
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 6: Yeah.

611
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: My grandpa was six ' five and because she was

612
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 2: so small during World War Two she had a special job.

613
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: They would hold her by her feet and shove her

614
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 2: inside the wings of P fifty one mustangs so she

615
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: could like weld them up or like you bolting, or

616
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: she was like welding them on the inside. There was

617
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: like an area that needed welds that only the tiniest

618
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: girls could fit.

619
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: Tell yeah fucking rab Yeah.

620
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 4: As somebody who definitely can't reach things on the top shelf,

621
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 4: I'm very excited to hear more about Violet.

622
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 3: Also, the only person who I'm going to talk about

623
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 3: today who successfully shot the man.

624
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: Well done.

625
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: I mean one of the lessons is that nobody knew

626
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: how to shoot in the past. Yeah, and most people

627
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: don't know how to shoot today.

628
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 3: Also. Yeah, So Violet Gibson was a forty nine year

629
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: old Irish woman from Dublin who lived in a convent

630
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: in Rome and shot Mussolini in the face on April seventh,

631
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty six.

632
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: What's not to lot?

633
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: God Ireland stays winning? Yeah, you know, I don't. Mostly

634
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 3: the part to not like about the story is that

635
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: he turned his head at the last minute. Yeah, he

636
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 3: didn't die, and she only grazed his nose, but there

637
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 3: are good pictures of him, like with the like bandage

638
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: on his nose or whatever. There's no comparisons that can

639
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 3: be made now to the modern world.

640
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 4: No about people turning their heads.

641
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: Yeah and getting grazed yep mm. The world would have

642
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 3: been a very different place if he had not turned

643
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 3: his head yep. Violet Gibson was a thin woman, about

644
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 3: five foot one. Her father was the Lord Chancellor of Ireland.

645
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 3: She grew up She's Anglo Irish, right, and she grew.

646
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: Up like oh wow, so her like they're like the

647
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: English landlord yeah type deal, yeah yeah yeah, oh like

648
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 2: Lawrence of Arabia.

649
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally and h and like Lawrence of Arabia. She's

650
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: crazy as shit. But people use this to invalidate and

651
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 3: like claim that her action wasn't political or thought out,

652
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: and that's what I want to argue against. But I

653
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 3: can't argue against her being crazy at shit, and I'm

654
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: gonna tell you why. But she grew up riches hell.

655
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: She was a debutante, debuted in Queen Victoria's court, which

656
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 3: I only vaguely understand what is through mostly my friends

657
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: who are from the South, most telling into the store

658
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 3: come down to I don't know she did it because

659
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 3: she was crazy. I am going to make the case

660
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: as she did it because she was a politically committed

661
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 3: Catholic socialist who wanted to do right by God and

662
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 3: people by killing a man who went on to be

663
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: responsible for millions of deaths, who was also crazy. She

664
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 3: was always esoteric. She was raised Protestant right Her mother

665
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 3: became a Christian scientist, and so she herself experimented with

666
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 3: Christian science, and then she got into Theosophy for a while,

667
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 3: but then she converted. She found another esoteric religion to

668
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: get involved in Catholicism when she was twenty six, and

669
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: she stayed a Catholic for the rest of her life.

670
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: She was sick all of the time, her body carried

671
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 3: the scars of many surgeries, and she spent years working

672
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 3: at various pacifist organizations. The craziest thing she did, which

673
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: is left out of the leftist accounts of her story,

674
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 3: but it's included in the right wing accounts of her

675
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 3: story that are like demonizing her, but they're verifiable. I

676
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 3: believe this happened. So she used to walk around Dublin

677
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 3: with a Bible in one hand and a knife in

678
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: the other. And I hate to say it, but that

679
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 3: is that is pretty cool. Oh yeah, no, like, yeah, no,

680
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 3: she's I would want to meet her, maybe from a distance,

681
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 3: but I would want to meet her.

682
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 6: I would want to like observe her from from a

683
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 6: safe distance. Yeeah, yeah exactly. She talked all the time

684
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 6: about the necessity of mortifying the flesh, which is normally

685
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 6: about like killing the urge to sin, but she seemed

686
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 6: to want to kill. Was that was part of her

687
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 6: way of understanding that particular doctrine. Around nineteen twenty, she

688
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 6: attacked a young woman with a knife, cutting the woman's

689
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 6: face and hands. And so she spent two years in

690
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 6: an asylum. And I don't know enough about that attack

691
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 6: to know, like if there's any motivation beyond something about

692
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 6: how she wanted to like replicate the uh sacrifice of

693
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 6: so and so in the Bible or whatever.

694
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: Sure, when she got out, she moved a convent in Rome.

695
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: I believe this was kind of a like, yeah, you're

696
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 3: like super rich, though, so you can go be in

697
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 3: this convent. Her friends thought to themselves, She's probably going

698
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 3: to kill somebody maybe the Pope, but they didn't try

699
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 3: to stop her, which is really funny because they're probably

700
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 3: all Irish Catholics and they're just like, eh, whatever. Then

701
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty four, when Jacamo was murdered, the guy

702
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: murdered to death with a carpenter's file. Yeah, she was

703
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 3: heartbroken because she was a Catholic socialist, right, and so

704
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 3: she decided to like revenge that killing by shooting herself

705
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: in the chest. The bullet bounced off her ribs and

706
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 3: she survived. And if you want to survive in the

707
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: world that's coming, you need to buy literally everything that

708
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 3: is advertised on this show. It is the only way

709
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 3: to survive. I believe it's not a guarantee. But here's

710
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 3: ads and we're back Mussolini at this point. God, I

711
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: read a whole bunch of New York Times articles and

712
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 3: like other newspaper articles from this time, and they're all

713
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,720
Speaker 3: like Mussolini's great. We all like Mussolini because he's stopping

714
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: the Bolsheviks. You know, Mussolini was being courted by the

715
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: Western world. The King of England awarded him the Order

716
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 3: of the Bath, which is not in order to take

717
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: a bath, unfortunately, but instead a knighthood, and Violet Gibson

718
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 3: decided that the way to glorify God was to assassinate Mussolini,

719
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: so she showed up at one of his talks in

720
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty six with a revolver and a rock. The

721
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: rock was to break his windshield if necessary, which later

722
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 3: assassins would have been more successful if they had also

723
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 3: brought a rock. The modern mind can't really understand her motive,

724
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 3: I think, because their motive was primarily religious, but it

725
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 3: was also political. She did it to quote glorify God,

726
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 3: and Angel kept her arm steady. I told this story

727
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: to a Catholic anarchist friend of mine, whose response was

728
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 3: basically like, oh, those Irish and their angels. Mussolini turned

729
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 3: his head the last minute, she grazed his nose. She

730
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: tried to fire again, but the gun jammed. And I've

731
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 3: read that what he yelled at the time that he

732
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 3: was shot was fancy a woman, But that might have

733
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 3: been later. He told the crowd, don't be afraid, this

734
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 3: is a mere trifle, And then like later, he went

735
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 3: on this rant about how he's totally down to die

736
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 3: violently as long as like a good, glorious death. But

737
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 3: if he's like killed by an old lady, he just

738
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: can't handle it, which is why I wish Violet had

739
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: succeeded over everyone else. Ahlas. Yeah, the crowd caught her

740
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 3: and beat her, and she was whisked away by the

741
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 3: cops and declared insane. People said that she was paranoid

742
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: and that was why she tried to kill him, because

743
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 3: she was paranoid. I hate to break it to the

744
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 3: people back then, she was correct about this particular thing.

745
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 3: She spent the rest of her life in various institutions.

746
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 3: She wrote letter after letter pleading to be set free,

747
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 3: but those letters were never sent because you know, I mean,

748
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 3: are crazy, right, That's fine, that's a sarcastic remind Yeah,

749
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: probably caught onto that. She told people that her mood

750
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 3: controlled the weather.

751
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: Okay, well did it.

752
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: If she'd killed Mussolini, she would have stopped like three

753
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 3: million deaths. Maybe her moods like I want to kill

754
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 3: Mussolini have a pretty major impact.

755
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I can't prove that she's wrong.

756
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. It reminds me of when I covered Joan of

757
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 3: Arc on this show, where people are like, oh, feminist icon,

758
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 3: except you know, obviously she was just crazy with her

759
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 3: visions from God. And it's just that people were conceiving

760
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: of reality in different ways than we conceive of it now,

761
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 3: and I think that people have a hard time wrapping

762
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 3: their heads around that she died in nineteen fifty six

763
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: at the age of seventy nine. She did outlive Mussolini.

764
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 3: No family members came to her funeral. History has vindicated her,

765
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 3: and there's now a plaque for her on her childhood

766
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 3: home in Dublin that describes her accurately as a committed

767
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: anti fascist. And it was articles about this from like

768
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 3: right wing Irish people, is how I learned about how

769
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 3: she would run around and stab people and things like that.

770
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: Is it possible that there was like no one at

771
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 2: her funeral because this, I mean, I had just made

772
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: a comment about Ireland staying winning. But Ireland's history are

773
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: the fascists in this period is not particularly clean, in

774
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: large part because the fascists were in opposed to the

775
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 2: British government and so there was a lot of at

776
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: least the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing

777
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: among the Irish, as well as the fact that Franco

778
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: was like a Catholic like It's not a clean period

779
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: for Ireland entirely either.

780
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 3: It's not, but she's also Anglo Irish, right, well, I.

781
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 2: Mean, yeah, that also makes sense, you right, I'd forgotten.

782
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: That, and I think it's I think overall it was

783
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 3: just like, oh, there's our crazy aunt. She's just crazy.

784
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: She just wanted to kill a guy. You know, that's

785
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 3: like my best guess. But I'm not certain people didn't

786
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: like her at the time, and now there's been kind

787
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 3: of this reclamation of her legacy. But Mussolini was particularly

788
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: good at turning attempts on his life into popular support,

789
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: which is like what you do if someone tries to

790
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: kill you, right. You neither say like, oh no, I'm

791
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: afraid and the enemy is scary and bad, which is

792
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 3: not a good way to gain power, or you can

793
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 3: say like ha ha haa, they can't get me, but

794
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 3: they want it because they're evil. You know, almost every

795
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 3: article about attempts on Mussolini's life from then or now

796
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: is basically like, but this particular attempt is what Mussolini

797
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 3: used to consolidate power. Everything was fine until this person

798
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: tried to kill him, and then wo she just like

799
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 3: swept in with fascism.

800
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that that's people number one.

801
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 2: It's like working backwards, which you shouldn't do when you're

802
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 2: trying to analyze people psychologically. Now that said, I don't

803
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 2: know that I would say there's it didn't have an

804
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: impact on the character of the regime, just like it's

805
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: probably fair to like whatever Trump does next, the shooting

806
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 2: will probably have impacted because it clearly affected his mental.

807
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 3: State right totally.

808
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: Maybe it'll mean that he's a little less coherent and

809
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: a little less like, maybe even less willing to take

810
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 2: risks he might otherwise have taken.

811
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 3: Maybe it'll mean he's more vengeful. We don't know yet.

812
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: We'll all be learning soon. But it definitely the presidency

813
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: we are going to get out of him now is

814
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: different than if he had won and nobody had shot him, right, Like,

815
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 2: that's just we don't know how, and we'll never know how.

816
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: But that's just a reality because nearly being shot to

817
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: death on live television changes you, changes anybody. You don't

818
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: have to be a good person.

819
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 3: And it's like people talk about like hindsight is twenty twenty,

820
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 3: but it's not because you don't know what the other

821
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 3: options were. You know, you can only see the one

822
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 3: thing that happened. Yeah, and Mussolini would have become dictator

823
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 3: if no one had tried to kill him. Yeah, you know, yeah,

824
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: and he used moments like this to consolidate power because

825
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: anyone would.

826
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you you can't let something like this go

827
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 2: to waste. And also just like continuing to work after

828
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: you've nearly been shot to death in the head probably

829
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: also just kind of mentally necessary, like you're you're gonna

830
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: make use of that, because otherwise you're gonna sit alone

831
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: in a room and think about how you nearly got

832
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 2: your brain's blown out.

833
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, he keeps busy. You know, he's

834
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: been a lot of mistresses. Although New York Times just

835
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 3: is gonna run articles. I'll talk about him later, but

836
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: New York Times like, oh, he's just hanging out with

837
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 3: his family. He's a family man.

838
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 2: Like, oh, they loved Mussolini, the Mito. I mean a

839
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 2: lot of Americans really liked Mussolini in part because like

840
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: he was he was a very very much a celebrity

841
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: dictator in a way that Hitler Hitler was, but not

842
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: in this like Hitler was, you know, famous and managed

843
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 2: to become beloved in Germany. Mussolini had a level of

844
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: like international like movie star cloud in part because he

845
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 2: looked handsome in his photos in a way Hitler didn't

846
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: really like he looked like a movie star, you know,

847
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 2: not in real life. But he you know, he had

848
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: he had good people, worry, and he had a lot

849
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: of movie stars hanging out with him, by the way,

850
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 2: a lot of American ones.

851
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 3: And he like knew more about philosophy and art and

852
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 3: shit like that, you know, which was like a lot

853
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 3: of the ways to be kind of like cool at

854
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 3: the time. And like, I mean, he created a philosophy

855
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: one that is still around.

856
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 2: Yep.

857
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,919
Speaker 3: It's a bad one, yep. So there's another thing that's

858
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 3: going to tie into this that is going on the

859
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: Italian anarchist world and the Italian American world and just

860
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 3: the news in general. And it's another thing that like,

861
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 3: looking back, it's hard to see why this is as

862
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: big of a deal as it was. And this is

863
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 3: the trial of Sacho and Zetti. Have you heard of this,

864
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

865
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: Those are the two American anarchists who there was a bombing,

866
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: they got accused of it executed, didn't do it right?

867
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: Am I am I?

868
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 3: And the basics there, so what's funny about it? It's messy.

869
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 2: The general version is usually it is Yeah, this was

870
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: like cumulatively four sentences over the course of my high

871
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: school education, and.

872
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 3: It's probably the only time during anyone's high school education

873
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 3: the word anarchist gets mentioned, besides like, maybe you're going

874
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 3: to get show gosh killing McKinley, but probably not.

875
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: I don't even think I learned about McKinley getting assassinated.

876
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 2: I don't think I learned it was an anarchist, but

877
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 2: maybe maybe it was. I barely remember high school.

878
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, fair enough. I honestly, whenever I'm like, my high

879
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 3: school teacher didn't teach me this, I'm like, I don't know,

880
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 3: how would I have known? I got c's like what

881
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 3: you know.

882
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 2: But I definitely remember knowing that Sacho and Vinzetti had

883
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: been anarchists.

884
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 3: Because that one was inescapable, and it was this incredibly

885
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 3: important celebrity trial all over the world, and basically some

886
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 3: Italian American anarchists or mafia, but almost certainly anarchists were

887
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 3: robbing a guy who carried the wages basically the equivalent

888
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 3: of an armored truck robbery, and someone shot and killed

889
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 3: the paymaster and a guard. Two Italian American anarchists, Saqua

890
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 3: and Venzetti, were put on trial. The entire leftist world,

891
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 3: not just the anarchists, was convinced that they were innocent,

892
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 3: and basically this whole thing was seen as like a

893
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 3: travesty of justice. In nineteen twenty one, they were found

894
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: guilty and sentenced to death, but it took years for

895
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 3: the state to kill them because the outcry was so

896
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 3: much that they had to have all these appeals and

897
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 3: investigations and things like that. This dragged on for years.

898
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 3: Later historians have been like, well, Saco probably did it,

899
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 3: and Venzetti maybe, Like it's possible Venzetti was there and

900
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 3: therefore actually criminally liable, but like didn't pull the trigger.

901
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 3: It's also possible that they weren't there, because a lot

902
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 3: of the evidence that they did do it comes from

903
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: a guy we're going to talk about later who's an

904
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 3: anarchist bomb maker who turned into a fascist informant named

905
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 3: Mario Buddha.

906
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 2: Well, it's also an unfortunate truth that a lot of

907
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: times the people who are most willing to make things

908
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: like bombs are also driven more by rage than like

909
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: political conviction and thus very easy to swing to a

910
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 2: politics that entirely exists on the basis of rage. Yeah,

911
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 2: which is which is why we really do try here

912
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 2: not to idolize people whose only contribution is that they

913
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 2: did a violence. Yeah, totally, even when everybody's making some

914
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 2: very funny jokes on social media, Yeah right now about

915
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: a thing that just happened.

916
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 3: No, it's it's true, and that is like something that yeah, fun,

917
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 3: time to have decided to write this episode. But the

918
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: important thing about the Saquo and Benzetti case is that

919
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 3: this trial was huge. The outcry was enormous, and one

920
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 3: thing that happened in this is that the fascists tried

921
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 3: hard to capitalize on it and did capitalize on it,

922
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 3: because most of the outcry against the trial is that

923
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 3: the trial was unfair as a result of the US's

924
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 3: anti Italian and anti anarchist bigotry. A fuck ton of

925
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 3: the Italian American crowd was either anarchist or fascist, and

926
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 3: so both the fascists and the anarchists rallied for Saco

927
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 3: and Vinzetti. Mussolini was cynically using the trial to stir

928
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 3: up nationalism at home and continuing his odd overtures to

929
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 3: the anarchists, even though he was in power by most

930
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 3: of this point, and he's cracking down on the anarchist

931
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 3: left and right. His soldiers are burning photos of that

932
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 3: guy Mala Testa. Anarchists are being rounded up and stuff.

933
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 3: Yet Mussolini is telling his ambassadors to try and intervene

934
00:49:55,960 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 3: on behalf of Saco and Vinzetti because Mussolini won to

935
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 3: be seen as the man who protected Italians everywhere. And

936
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 3: he has all these quotes that are like, I cannot

937
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 3: agree with anything that these men stand for, but they're Italian,

938
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: my god, and America shouldn't kill them or whatever I'm

939
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 3: now paraphrasing. Terribly great stuff.

940
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't love their murders, but I support them.

941
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: Being Italian, they thus they ought.

942
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 3: To be free. Yeah, exactly, exactly fair enough. And what

943
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 3: does this have to do with Violet Gibson. Well, this

944
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 3: is going to turn into one of the best zings

945
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 3: against America that I've ever read about h On July

946
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: twenty third, nineteen twenty seven, Mussolini wrote, it is certain

947
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 3: that the execution of Saco Vanzetti would provide the pretext

948
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 3: for a vast and continuous agitation throughout the world. The

949
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: fascist government, which is strongly authoritarian and does not give

950
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 3: quarter to the Bolsheviks, very often employs clemency in individual cases.

951
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 3: The governor of Massachusetts should not lose the opportunity for

952
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 3: a humanitarian act whose repercussions would be especially positive in Italy,

953
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 3: and fascist newspapers were now contrasting the American government as

954
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 3: more totalitarian than the fascist Italian government because the Italian system,

955
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: the fascist system, had let Violet Gibson return to her

956
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: own country, and there is no death penalty in Italy

957
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 3: at this point.

958
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:29,959
Speaker 2: That's nice.

959
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 3: People could literally kill kings and get life in prison.

960
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 3: Comparing this to the barbaric United States, and this is

961
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 3: the thing that I love about it. It is like

962
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: the dude's got a point yep. The US president industrial

963
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 3: system is like a nightmare and was worse than the

964
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: fascist government.

965
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 2: I mean at the you know, it depends on the stage,

966
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: but at the early stages, you know, Mussolini does eventually

967
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 2: invade Ethiopia and deploy chemical weapons. Yeah, yeah, that's certainly

968
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 2: an argument that you could have made earlier in Mussolini's regime.

969
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 2: You have to remember he was not he definitely was

970
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 2: killing his political enemies.

971
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he had stabbed a dude to death of

972
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 3: a file Yeah yeah, not necessarily in a way.

973
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: That's a higher body count than, for example, the number

974
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 2: of black people being murdered by police in apartheid states

975
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 2: in the United States, right, yeah, like, which is not

976
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: a different thing to me. I don't consider that to

977
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 2: be better than I don't know, rounding up like a

978
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: few dozen socialists and murdering them or whatever like that,

979
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 2: and the constant mass the constant murder at a pretty

980
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 2: high rate of black men in the South by cops

981
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 2: and vigilantes, like both both things that I would put

982
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 2: on a similar moral level.

983
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I'm not trying to be like Benito Mussolini

984
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 3: is great, you know.

985
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't

986
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: think you were. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, yeah, that's

987
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 2: not an irrational statement to make at that point in time,

988
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:57,439
Speaker 2: knowing what they knew.

989
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And Violet, she was not alone in her

990
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 3: quest to see the Duke die. The next attempt was

991
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 3: on September eleventh, nineteen twenty six. And this is why

992
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 3: people remember September eleventh, and this is probably the most

993
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 3: organized attempt. Sophie is clearly agrees with me.

994
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: Did anything else happen on September eleventh? Ever, that seems

995
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 2: like one of those that coup.

996
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 3: That happened somewhere is such a smooth joke. Yeah, thank you.

997
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 2: I'm looking. I'm looking at my calendar of various September

998
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: elevenths that I keep for no reason. Yeah, it doesn't

999
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 2: look like anything's ever happened on another September eleventh that

1000
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: I can that I've got.

1001
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 3: Okay, you're the funniest person I know.

1002
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: That must be why I celebrate nine to eleven. Ye, wait, exactly, shit, wow, Margaret, Margaret,

1003
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: I'm getting some very bad Google results. Suddenly we need

1004
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 2: to edit that out.

1005
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Oh my god, all those poor people.

1006
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 3: Holy shit. Yeah, I lived in New York City. Yeah,

1007
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 3: September eleventh, two one, so saw the towers on fire.

1008
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 3: There's all the smoking remains. But anyway, the socialist politician

1009
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 3: had failed, The Catholic wingnut had failed. Time to bring

1010
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 3: in the professionals. If there's one group that knows about

1011
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 3: killing kings and monarchs and stuff, it's the anarchists. Again,

1012
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 3: we all know they failed, but you know what. They

1013
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 3: tried real hard. The next attempt was by a man

1014
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 3: named Gino Lucetti, who I'll tell you about along with

1015
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 3: his cousin Gino, because his name is Geno, but so

1016
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 3: is his cousin. That's the thing I'm saying. Well, i'll

1017
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 3: tell you about it on Wednesday. Excellent.

1018
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 2: You know, Wednesday, Margaret, is the day that comes after Tuesday.

1019
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 2: That's a little science fact for those of you in

1020
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:40,760
Speaker 2: the audience.

1021
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for telling us that.

1022
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 3: I have no idea.

1023
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 4: I have no idea how we would have.

1024
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: Wait, we tried to shoot a little bit a couple

1025
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 2: of facts in your way.

1026
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why it's edutainment.

1027
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 2: That's why it's edutainment.

1028
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 6: Right.

1029
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, So remember, folks, Wednesday day after Tuesday. Thursday comes

1030
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: day before Monday. And that's all I gotta say.

1031
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 3: It comes before Monday. Yes, yes, yes, Tomorrow is Saturday

1032
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 3: and after Monday. Is the weirdest thing about Thursday.

1033
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 2: I know, I know, it's the day. So nice they

1034
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 2: made it happen twice.

1035
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 3: It I can't even there's nothing I can do with that.

1036
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, Margan, I wish you and I could hang

1037
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 2: out all eleven days of the week.

1038
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 3: I know that'd be nice, but I only have so

1039
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 3: many hours in the day, and I don't remember how

1040
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 3: many it is forty one? Oh okay, no, yeah, that

1041
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 3: makes sense. Yes, But Robert Evans, where can people find

1042
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 3: more about you or what do you do? Well?

1043
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,720
Speaker 2: You can find me sweating away in my basement because

1044
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 2: you and I only use an antique coptic Christian calendar

1045
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: and day system based largely on a step pyramid that

1046
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: used to exist but was bulldozed in what was once

1047
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 2: sume Aria, So it takes a lot of time to

1048
00:55:58,760 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: remember what day it is.

1049
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. We really kept this bit going

1050
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 3: for a while. I feel like at the end of

1051
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,320
Speaker 3: a Gi Joe episode where you tell kids to like

1052
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 3: not hide in refrigerators. Right, I feel like it's worth

1053
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 3: pointing out that I really am talking about history here

1054
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 3: and that nothing necessarily good happened from many of the

1055
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 3: attempts that I'm describing. I am not morally against the

1056
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 3: attempts that I am describing. I'm clearly not of this

1057
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 3: thing that happened in the nineteen twenties, but I want

1058
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 3: to be like clear on that just like that.

1059
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: Is the thing I can think of very few assassinations

1060
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 2: in history where ultimately you would look at it and

1061
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 2: say that, like, yeah, that worked out really well. Is

1062
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 2: particularly that worked out well by the person carrying out

1063
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 2: the assassination standards. Really the one that like Sogamu and

1064
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: Tealurian who shot you know, one of the young Turks

1065
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 2: who orchestrated the Armenian genocide, that worked out great by

1066
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 2: his standards, and everyone else's that guy you shot Abe

1067
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 2: seems to the long run of that seems to have

1068
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 2: been positive. Very few other instances, like I don't know

1069
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: that I'd say McKinley worked well in the long run.

1070
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 2: Obviously shooting the archduke fucking disaster.

1071
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's it is worth thinking about that anarchists

1072
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 3: had given up on propaganda by the deed at this point,

1073
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 3: propaganda by the deed. It was this anarchist idea that

1074
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,479
Speaker 3: people were like, well, the masses don't really read theory,

1075
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 3: so let's just show them by killing all the kings

1076
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 3: and the you know, the people who are in charge

1077
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 3: of them. And it overall was disastrous for the anarchist

1078
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 3: movement because it just led people to then defend the

1079
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 3: vary systems that the anarchists were opposed to, and this

1080
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 3: happened time and time again. There are exceptions. During the

1081
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 3: the run up to the Russian Revolution, you have like

1082
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 3: about from like nineteen oh three to nineteen seventeen, anarchists

1083
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 3: and other groups were all doing these attendants, all doing

1084
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 3: these assassinations, and it did lead to a revolutionary situation,

1085
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 3: which of course all kind of ended badly and created

1086
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: the United the USSR. But usually these kinds of things

1087
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 3: destroy a social movement. Sometimes, if enough people are interested

1088
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 3: in it, it builds a social movement, but usually it doesn't.

1089
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 3: And that is the like, it's a crapshoot at best,

1090
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 3: It's a like, let's redraw our hand of cards and

1091
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 3: probably get something worse.

1092
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 2: Yep.

1093
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 3: But still, if someone had successfully killed Mussolini, I bet

1094
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 3: the world would have been a better place.

1095
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but the if within the if contains a

1096
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 2: lot of reasons.

1097
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 3: Why.

1098
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, we're going to say for legal reasons

1099
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 2: here assassinations probably not worth.

1100
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 3: It, and we're gonna talk about like five more of

1101
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 3: them on Wednesday. Yeah.

1102
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 4: At the end here, I just want to plug if

1103
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 4: you haven't listened, I just am plugging this on anything

1104
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 4: I can I just want to plug our colleague James

1105
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 4: Stout series from reporting from the Darien Gap. Yeah, about

1106
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:05,439
Speaker 4: one of the worst land migration places in the world

1107
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 4: and just you know, the stories and people he talked

1108
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 4: to there, and I just want to plug that because

1109
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 4: it's an amazing series and I'm very proud of James.

1110
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: Started listening to it. I haven't finished it yet. It

1111
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 3: is really good.

1112
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 4: It's really good.

1113
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1114
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 4: So if you have time around the end of the

1115
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 4: year and you're like, Ohm, I need something to binge.

1116
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 4: James did five episodes on It could happen here on

1117
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 4: It could app Thank you, and it could happen here all.

1118
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 3: Right, see y'all on Wednesday.

1119
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: Bye. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production

1120
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: of Cool Zone Media. More podcasts and cool Zone Media.

1121
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: Visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out

1122
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1123
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: your podcasts.

1124
00:59:57,560 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff.

1125
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 3: You're a weekly reminder that when there's bad things happening,

1126
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 3: people try to confront those bad things in various ways,

1127
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 3: lots of various ways. One of the way, no, just

1128
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 3: a person, one of the people who's also on this

1129
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 3: podcast with me is Robert Evans, my guest.

1130
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 2: Hi, that's right, I'm Robert Evans, and uh, I'm Robert Evans.

1131
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 2: That's me.

1132
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 3: Well, I brought you on because you're an expert about Italy.

1133
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I know several things about Italians, Margaret

1134
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 2: number one, number two.

1135
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 3: Spice, here's where we remind Italian.

1136
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 2: Whatever the hat is that they that the that the

1137
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 2: chefs wear in those kind of racist caricatures. Look, it's fine.

1138
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 2: We all decided that it's okay with Italians now.

1139
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, despite the huge trial that we talked about last

1140
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 3: time about anti Italian prejudice in the United States.

1141
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 2: Look, if they'd been you, I have the opposite position

1142
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 2: of that guy. I'm fine with the murder. If they'd

1143
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 2: been on trial for being Italian, I would have said,

1144
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 2: fucking yeah.

1145
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,959
Speaker 3: Hang you know, yeah exactly, hang am I yeah, maybe

1146
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 3: upside down maybe. Uh that's a dead Mussolini joke, which

1147
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 3: is which is not gonna happen in today's episode. A

1148
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 3: lot of people are gonna try give the old college try.

1149
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 3: Our producer is Sophie. Hi, Sophie, it's me.

1150
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 4: I'm Sophie High.

1151
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 3: I realized when I got my podcast you listened to

1152
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 3: the most in twenty twenty four that four of them

1153
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 3: were Sophie podcasts.

1154
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 4: The loyalties unmatched, unmapped.

1155
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

1156
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 3: I'm a little bit surprised that that not all five were.

1157
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 3: But I think the problem was that the Pathfinder podcast

1158
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 3: I listened to has really long episode. Need one raised,

1159
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 3: like five?

1160
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, you need one break for me?

1161
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 2: We should do a Pathfinder podcast, Margaret.

1162
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 3: I would love to do a live play podcast.

1163
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll reach out to the guy who created Pathfinder

1164
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: and listens to our podcasts, talk to him about that.

1165
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 3: I would love that guy who created Pathfinder. Y'all are

1166
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 3: great and your system rules and I play it anyway.

1167
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 3: So but yeah, no, cools on media needs a live

1168
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 3: play podcast, That's all I'm saying. And if you listener agree,

1169
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 3: bug these people on the internet about it. And then

1170
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 3: because I needed more podcasts to be on whatever, I

1171
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 3: don't care.

1172
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 2: There's a shortage of podcasts. I don't know if you're

1173
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: aware of this. Yeah, but the CDC has said that

1174
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 2: it's probably the largest threat to our national collective health.

1175
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 3: Well, it's the only thing that they're trying to put

1176
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 3: a tariff on that everyone's in favor of is that

1177
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 3: they're trying to make it harder for people to make podcasts.

1178
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.

1179
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 3: All podcast mics, Oh my god, that actually is good.

1180
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 3: Most of the podcast mics are probably not made in

1181
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 3: the US. Whatever I got mine, I have no idea.

1182
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 3: I have no idea where they make our microphones, Margaret, No, no,

1183
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 3: I do not.

1184
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1185
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 3: Anyway, this is part two on a two part episode

1186
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 3: about people trying to kill Mussolini. Later we'll probably talk

1187
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 3: about the people who succeeded. It took a whole war,

1188
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 3: but some people tried to just cut to the chase

1189
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 3: and circumvent the need for the war. And we've already

1190
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 3: mentioned several of them, but we're going to talk a

1191
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 3: lot more of them today. First, we're gonna talk about Rory,

1192
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 3: who's our audio engineer. Hi Rory, Hi, right, Hy Rory?

1193
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 3: And that our theme musical was written forced by unwoman,

1194
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 3: and that Gino Lucetti was born working class in the

1195
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 3: year nineteen hundred in Karra, Tuscany. You ever heard of Carra.

1196
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 2: I've heard of Tuscany because the Tuscan coast is pretty famous.

1197
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 2: I've never heard of Carra. Other than that, it makes

1198
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 2: me think of that song that goes Tara Ra boom Da,

1199
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 2: which I don't know what that's a reference to.

1200
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 3: Is that a slur? I have no idea.

1201
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 2: I should probably look into that song see if there

1202
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:01,439
Speaker 2: was anything fucked up. It's like celebrating genocide. That's often

1203
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 2: the case with old songs. What a lovely tune?

1204
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 3: Oh no, yeah, Well, Carrara is famous for two things.

1205
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 3: It is famous for its marble quarries. It produces some

1206
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 3: of the finest marble from which the most iconic buildings

1207
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 3: and statues in the world are made. There's a whole

1208
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 3: list of them, and I forgot to write them down,

1209
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 3: But like, think of an old Italian statue from Rome,

1210
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 3: Old Rome, and the marble might have come from Carrara.

1211
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 3: It has like blue veins. I spent way too long

1212
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 3: reading about this marble.

1213
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 2: It's good ass marble.

1214
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. The other thing the Carrara is famous for is anarchism.

1215
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 3: Oh okay. When my anarchist friends took me through Italy

1216
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 3: when we were near Carrara, they pointed out and they

1217
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 3: were like, hey, that's that place. Was an anarchist stronghold

1218
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 3: for a long, long time among the Stonemasons who put

1219
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 3: that town on the map enough so that I was

1220
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 3: like double checking this today. I was like, Carrara. That

1221
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 3: sounds familiar, right, I was looking at a mainstream tour

1222
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 3: company's website, Carrara Marble Tour, and they offer an anarchic

1223
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 3: Carra tour.

1224
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 2: Oh wow, really double dipping. I mean, and that's you know,

1225
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 2: because there's so many It's like you and I always say, Margaret,

1226
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 2: with so many Anarchistsinnara audience, you know, every there's there's

1227
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 2: nothing that goes together like anarchism and marble quarries. Yeah,

1228
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 2: two great tastes that taste great together.

1229
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 4: You know.

1230
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 2: That's why. By the way, let's have a word for

1231
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 2: our sponsor, Big Marble.

1232
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 3: Marble.

1233
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 2: Maybe we could use it again for some stuff.

1234
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 3: Marble one time statute of limitations Ago I had to

1235
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 3: empty all the Marbles out of my pocket before a

1236
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 3: mass arrest.

1237
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Marble, if you use it to make all of

1238
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 2: your streets and sidewalks like they do in Greece, it

1239
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 2: makes things incredibly treacherous in the rain, actually horrible, horrible

1240
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 2: material to.

1241
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 3: Use the way that they use it. Yeah, but it's

1242
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 3: pretty though, Yeah, years and years ago, my dad told

1243
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 3: me this spooky story that he wrote called the thirty

1244
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 3: seven Marble Steps, and I was like a kid, so

1245
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 3: I was just assuming that these were steps with marbles

1246
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 3: embedded in them. But Gina Lucetti was from Carrara in

1247
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 3: the early nineteen twenties. There are factory occupations all over Italy.

1248
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 3: I don't know enough about these yet, but they've come

1249
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 3: up a bunch of times, and they'll probably be one

1250
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 3: of their own episodes at one of these points. And

1251
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 3: I know that in the end of these factory occupations,

1252
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 3: the socialist parties kind of gave up and gave power

1253
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 3: back to the bosses, which made an awful lot more

1254
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 3: anarchists from those socialists who you know, had just seized

1255
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 3: the means of production and were like, but isn't this

1256
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 3: our goal? Isn't our goal that the workers control the

1257
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 3: means of production? Why would we give them back. I

1258
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 3: don't know enough about the ins and nights out of

1259
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 3: that struggle, but a lot of people were mad. Gina

1260
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 3: Lucetti was at these occupations and somewhere along the way

1261
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 3: he got into a gun fight with the black shirts.

1262
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 3: He got a guy in the ear who got him

1263
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 3: in the neck in return, and okay, this second time

1264
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 3: we've had an anti fascist get it in the neck

1265
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 3: and survive on the show. The other one was George orwell.

1266
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's uh. I mean, I'm not gonna

1267
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 2: say but that that's very lucky.

1268
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Don't get shot in the neck.

1269
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 2: The neck is very low on the number of places

1270
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 2: on your body you would want to get shot.

1271
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, not a good tournique spot. It turns out.

1272
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 2: Hard to turnikit and neck unless you're Google Ai, which

1273
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 2: has told me repeatedly that you can turnikit the neck. Hell, yeah,

1274
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 2: that's just a hanging, folks, you're just strangling someone to death.

1275
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 2: Oh my god, don't TURNI quit next.

1276
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems self evident. But an AI is not

1277
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 3: does not have our best interests in heart.

1278
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 2: No, it just sees, well, there's fucking there, there's fucking

1279
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 2: arteries there.

1280
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 3: Turnick it away. Yeah, yeah, it detaches a limb. If

1281
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 3: a head is a limb appendage, whatever a head is anatomically,

1282
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 3: I guess it's a head. So he couldn't find a

1283
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 3: doctor in Italy to get the bullet out. I do

1284
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 3: not know why. So comrades smuggled him to France, where

1285
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 3: he was finally treated, and he was like, you know what,

1286
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 3: I don't need to be in Italy right now. They

1287
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 3: are in the middle of a fascism and I am

1288
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 3: in the middle of just got shot in the neck

1289
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 3: by a fascist. Yeah. There was a large political refugee

1290
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,560
Speaker 3: scene in France at the time. Anarchists, socialists and communists

1291
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 3: had formed a popular front against fascism there, not only

1292
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 3: just in general in France, but like specifically the Italian

1293
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 3: refugees had. They were like, all right, look all that

1294
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 3: stuff going on in Russia, We're all mad at each other,

1295
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 3: but right now Italy is being taken over by fascists.

1296
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 3: We got to do something about that, right, And they

1297
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 3: all agreed what needed to be done was kill Mussolini.

1298
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 3: And this action was intended to be anything but a

1299
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 3: propaganda of the deed action, which is I think actually

1300
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 3: a really important point for kind of what we were

1301
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 3: ended on talking about last week. Right as a libcom

1302
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 3: dot org article put it, quote, propaganda of the deed

1303
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,840
Speaker 3: attacks were supposed to inspire the working classes to rise,

1304
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 3: and in this they were entirely unsuccessful. In this instance, however,

1305
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 3: The urge to kill Mussolini was the expression of a

1306
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 3: convergence of opinion among many popularly representative political groupings, and

1307
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 3: was commonly perceived as a necessity at that point in time.

1308
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 3: So it wasn't like, oh, we're gonna spur on the

1309
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 3: revolution and radicalize people by showing them that, you know,

1310
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,680
Speaker 3: our opponents are made of flesh and blood. It was like, no,

1311
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 3: Mussolini is basically the enemy war leader that we're in

1312
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 3: a war against. You know, one word that has never

1313
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 3: been successfully applied to anarchists is cowardice. Gino agreed to

1314
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 3: do the deed.

1315
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 2: And I mean it's the thing that you come across

1316
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,759
Speaker 2: over and over again when you read about like militant

1317
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 2: moves moments and like civil wars and where there are

1318
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 2: anarchist groups, is that the anarchists are always very brave.

1319
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 2: Not always the best fighters, yeah, but always very brave.

1320
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:17,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. And specifically other groups like putting us in the front.

1321
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's an aspect of it.

1322
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. I remember when I first became an anarchist, I

1323
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 3: was like just going to protest and things twenty seven

1324
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 3: years ago, and my roommate in college was like, you

1325
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 3: anarchists you're just the berserkers of the protest movement. People

1326
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 3: just throw you in the front to like soak up

1327
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 3: all the damage. And I was like, no, he was

1328
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 3: a little bit right at least in terms of how

1329
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,760
Speaker 3: people perceive us and use us. So of course, when

1330
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 3: they're like, who's going to go risk their life to

1331
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:53,879
Speaker 3: go do this? An anarchists volunteered and twice he returned

1332
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 3: to Italy to meet with comrades there to plan the assassination,

1333
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 3: and they met aboard a ship at sea, which is

1334
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 3: aesthetic as fuck, off the Tuscany coast, and this time

1335
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 3: there were no informants among them. He had several co

1336
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 3: conspirators worth mentioning. Stefano Vadieroni was an anarchist tinsmith from

1337
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 3: Rome who was the secretary of the library. The fucking

1338
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 3: librarian was in on this assassination. The secretary of Mussolini's

1339
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 3: library supplied all of the details, including Mussolini's routes by car.

1340
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,679
Speaker 3: Vadderoni funded the thing by selling his family's land near Carrara.

1341
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 3: Another anarchist, Leandro Sorrio, was a waiter who was planning

1342
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 3: to finance the group's escape from the country, but then

1343
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 3: they all decided. Basically, they were like, well, we're actually

1344
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 3: just all going to get arrested and stand trial. There

1345
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 3: you go. We want to make a statement. Maltesta, the

1346
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 3: anarchist guy who's old at this point, was briefed on

1347
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 3: the plan and signed off on it. So this wasn't

1348
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 3: a like spur of the moment attack. This was a

1349
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 3: you know, huge conspiracy across borders to try and kill

1350
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 3: this guy. Armngino went back to Italy and he went

1351
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 3: to Rome. He waited for Mussolini's car and then he

1352
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 3: threw a pineapple grenade at it. The grenade had been

1353
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 3: made by his cousin, and he threw it into the windshield. Famously,

1354
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 3: grenades are on timers, not like pressure sensitive. They like

1355
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 3: don't explode on impact, no, because.

1356
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 2: That would be very dangerous. Margaret, I have I told

1357
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:26,560
Speaker 2: you the story about the Iraqi soldier. We're behind this

1358
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 2: berm embedded with this unit of the Iraqi federal police

1359
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 2: that are in this very active gunfight with some ISIS guys.

1360
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 2: But they're also kind of showing off because like I'm

1361
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 2: there and my photographer's there with the camera, and.

1362
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 3: So I put the dudes.

1363
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 2: One of the dudes clips into the buttons of his

1364
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 2: like button up shirt, a grenade over each button. He

1365
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,799
Speaker 2: like sticks the little handle arm of the grenade around,

1366
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 2: and he like runs up and he like fires, and

1367
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 2: then he leans over to pick up a magazine that's

1368
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,560
Speaker 2: like lying behind the berm, and all of the grenades

1369
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:00,600
Speaker 2: fall off of his shirt and roll down directly towards me.

1370
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 3: So thankfully they're not set off by impact. Yeah, fair enough.

1371
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 3: In this case, it didn't get through the windshield. This

1372
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 3: is the guy who should have brought a rock. Yeah,

1373
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 3: if Violet Gibson was right, you need to get through

1374
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:23,600
Speaker 3: the windshield. The grenade bounced a few meters away and exploded.

1375
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 3: Mussolini's bodyguards caught up with Gino and beat the shit

1376
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 3: out of him. That sounds about right. Yeah, And when

1377
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:31,679
Speaker 3: they arrested him, they found him with a second bomb,

1378
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 3: a handgun with six hollow points poisoned with muriatic acid,

1379
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 3: which I don't know anything about.

1380
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 2: And a dagger isn't myriadic acid. The thing in like swimming.

1381
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:42,719
Speaker 3: Pools, isn't that chlorine?

1382
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 4: No?

1383
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 2: No, I mean I think you have muriatic acid for

1384
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 2: swimming pools too. I remember I've seen like jars one sec.

1385
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 3: I actually didn't want to google this today. That's what

1386
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 3: happened to me today is I was like, I wonder

1387
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:52,680
Speaker 3: what this stuff is.

1388
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you use mriadic acid to lower like

1389
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 2: pH in your pool. It's like, I'll let like a shit.

1390
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 2: Millions of Americans have this shit and like their shed.

1391
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I have no idea why you would. I

1392
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 3: either he was being really extra or like or he

1393
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 3: just thought it.

1394
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 2: He might have thought it was more sketchy than it was.

1395
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, like this one's his acid, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1396
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 3: when it's really no, I don't know. I don't know.

1397
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know much about it other

1398
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 2: than that, I know I've seen it in people's like

1399
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:21,719
Speaker 2: backyards because they have pools.

1400
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:26,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. And also like there's so much mythbuilding, both positively

1401
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 3: and negative about all of these things, you know, So

1402
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 3: it could have been like, oh, he had a dagger

1403
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 3: and muriatic acid and actually used the word dumb dumb

1404
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 3: bullets instead of hollow points because that's what they called him.

1405
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,560
Speaker 3: A round that expands at the time, you know. So

1406
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 3: he's tortured, he gives a false name in location and

1407
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 3: eventually they get the truth out of him. Lucetti was

1408
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 3: given thirty years in prison, the waiter got twenty years,

1409
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 3: and the tin smith got nineteen years and nine months.

1410
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 3: Thirty years is the maximum anyone's allowed to be given

1411
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 3: in Italy at the time, which again more, I mean

1412
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 3: later they're going to start killing people. But yeah, for

1413
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 3: three years Lucetti was in solitary and had only a

1414
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 3: sparrow that would visit at the window for company.

1415
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, sure, yeah, it's his best friend, the sparrow.

1416
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 3: I mean that's sweet. Actually, I know.

1417
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 2: I bet he was giving it some of his like,

1418
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 2: very very rare bread that he didn't have a whole

1419
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 2: lot of because he was a nice man.

1420
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he lived off of I think is just literally

1421
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 3: soup and bread, and that sounds about right. He died

1422
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 3: after seventeen years in prison in nineteen forty three. He

1423
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 3: died during a US air raid. Some claimed that he

1424
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 3: was killed by the shelling, but the man who identified

1425
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:41,560
Speaker 3: the body said that he had been killed by the

1426
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 3: occupying Germans during the raid. The Italian Communists tried to

1427
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 3: claim his legacy. They published that one of his fellow

1428
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 3: inmates claimed he had become a communist in his later years,

1429
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 3: but his brother and his fiancee, who kept visiting him

1430
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 3: until the end of his days, denied this adamantly. I'm like, no,

1431
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 3: he wasn't anarchists who died an anarchist. During the partisan

1432
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 3: reclamation of Italy, two different anarchist battalions named themselves after

1433
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 3: Gino Lucetti. Each was about sixty fighters. I believe, both

1434
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,599
Speaker 3: men and women. I know one of the other anarchist

1435
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:15,599
Speaker 3: battalions I'm going to talk about later was both men

1436
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 3: and women, and they helped rid Italy of fascism. So

1437
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 3: he won in a way after his death, and that

1438
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 3: is all most of us can hope for, I would.

1439
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 2: Say, yeah, definitely. I mean in the long run, it's

1440
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 2: all any of us can hope for, right because, as

1441
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 2: we've seen, every struggle worth fighting occurs over a long

1442
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 2: time frame.

1443
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:40,639
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. As for the man who made the bomb,

1444
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 3: that's a different story about another Gino, because his cousin's

1445
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:47,720
Speaker 3: name was also Gino. And I want to tell you

1446
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 3: about that story. But did you know what I want

1447
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 3: to tell you about? More?

1448
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 5: Uh?

1449
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 2: Products?

1450
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 3: I love products.

1451
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 2: Services. Maybe I don't know if you'd ever if there'd

1452
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 2: ever be a service on it here, I do.

1453
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 3: Like a good service.

1454
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, okay, fascinating yeah, no, yeah.

1455
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 3: Whatever whatever they pay me to talk about, or whatever

1456
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 3: they pay someone else to talk about in an insert

1457
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:15,040
Speaker 3: into my podcast. All right, I'm really excited about here,

1458
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 3: and we're back.

1459
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 5: We are.

1460
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 3: Gina Lucetti had a cousin, Gino Bibby, very serious country

1461
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 3: as you said, Yes, absolutely, Gino Bibby was from a

1462
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 3: more middle class background. His father owned a sawmill. Gino Bibby.

1463
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 3: Did you know what anarchist invented the missile?

1464
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: No?

1465
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 2: Was he like a scientist being forced to do stuff

1466
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 2: by the not So I'm going to get to it.

1467
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 4: You know what.

1468
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 2: That's got to be one of the top anarchism fails.

1469
01:17:57,640 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it didn't work out well in the end. I

1470
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 3: would say missiles.

1471
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 2: I mean, there's definitely some anarchists, you know, in anarchist

1472
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 2: related groups that have used missiles and are using them

1473
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 2: right now. But uh, boy howdy, it's a general rule,

1474
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 2: not a tool that has reduced state power.

1475
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1476
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:18,559
Speaker 3: Oh, that's an L I know. And it's so messy,

1477
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 3: big L for us. And if you google I'll talk

1478
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 3: about it a little bit more. Later when he actually

1479
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:25,760
Speaker 3: does the inventing, but I guess to it. But if

1480
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 3: you google who invented the missile, you get the Nazis.

1481
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 3: But he's gonna pull out missiles, guided missiles that go

1482
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 3: twenty kilometers in the Spanish Civil War. Shit missile in

1483
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 3: this case being a rocket, but guided.

1484
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah.

1485
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:44,640
Speaker 3: And as a teen, this second Geno, Gino Bibby went

1486
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,959
Speaker 3: around on a bicycle and distributed anarchist leaflets until fascists

1487
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 3: dragged him off his bike, beat him up, burned his motorcycle,

1488
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 3: and then burned his father's sawmill. Great, because they were

1489
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 3: a little extra the fascists. This did not make it

1490
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 3: Gino less radical, It just made him more angry. He's

1491
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 3: going to have the last laugh against fascists in Italy,

1492
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:08,600
Speaker 3: as often how things go. Yeah yeah. He spent a

1493
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 3: while in lock up for fighting fascists in the early

1494
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,599
Speaker 3: nineteen twenties, then fled to Spain, where he started learning

1495
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 3: how to fly in case he needed to assassinate Mussolini

1496
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 3: from the air. Okay, which is kind of like how

1497
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 3: I learned a while ago for a prison break episode

1498
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 3: that an awful lot of the prison breaks in the

1499
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:25,559
Speaker 3: early aughts were it.

1500
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:27,440
Speaker 2: Used to be a lot easier to get a helicopter.

1501
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:30,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, learn to fly. That's how you

1502
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 3: get people out of prison back in the day. Yeah.

1503
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 3: Come the Spanish Civil War, he worked behind enemy lines,

1504
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 3: blowing shit up and flying reconnaissance, and then he maybe

1505
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 3: designed the first missile. If you google right now the

1506
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 3: first missile, you get Nazi Germany World War two. But

1507
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 3: Gino design missiles that went twenty kilometers and the Drudi

1508
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 3: column fired them at Francoist forces. So it started off

1509
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 3: as a good idea, just a very Pandora's box.

1510
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.

1511
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know what else? The anarchist is not a

1512
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 3: products in service switch. Do you know what else anarchists

1513
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 3: invented during the Spanish Civil War? No, you ever played foosball?

1514
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:06,559
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1515
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:07,719
Speaker 2: Is that ours?

1516
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 3: Did you ever know? An anarchist named Alejandro I forget

1517
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,559
Speaker 3: his last name because it's not my script, invented foosball.

1518
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 2: Alejandro foos, let's call it. Let's say alanro fos cool.

1519
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a again I'm completely off script here

1520
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:22,720
Speaker 3: and going from memory, but there was a guy who

1521
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 3: was injured in the Spanish Civil War and he was

1522
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 3: like an inventor, and he was like, but I want

1523
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 3: to keep playing soccer, but I can't because I got

1524
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:32,880
Speaker 3: really badly injured. I'm going to invent table soccer, and

1525
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 3: other people had invented it, but his invention is the

1526
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:37,439
Speaker 3: one that people play today.

1527
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 2: Okay, So fascinating.

1528
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:44,680
Speaker 3: Spanish Civil War, the anarchist gave us missiles and foosball to.

1529
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 2: The two key cornerstones of the of modern civilization.

1530
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 3: Missiles and foosball.

1531
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1532
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, while Gino is inventing missiles and doing specop's missions,

1533
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 3: the Stalinists murdered his sister. Listen to any of our

1534
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 3: episodes about the Spanish Civil War for more about how

1535
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:05,680
Speaker 3: Stalins betrayed their comrades and started arresting folks that they

1536
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 3: didn't like and torturing people and killing them. The Stalinists

1537
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 3: actually arrested Gino two, but the anarchists in the government,

1538
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 3: which is another odd thing that happened in the Spanish

1539
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 3: Civil War, were like, oh no, fuck no, and the

1540
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 3: Stalinists were forced to let him out. When the Spanish

1541
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:24,439
Speaker 3: Republic fell, Like everyone else, he fled into France and

1542
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 3: was held in a concentration camp. Not a Nazi one,

1543
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 3: but a pre VG France one where from he escaped,

1544
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:32,799
Speaker 3: and then he moved back to Italy and he joined

1545
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 3: the Partisans there, and he freed his own fucking hometown

1546
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:39,680
Speaker 3: from fascists as part of an anarchist partisan unit. I

1547
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 3: really like this guy. To quote author Nick Heath, he

1548
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 3: died at the age of one hundred on the eighth

1549
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 3: of August nineteen ninety nine. He was cremated with a

1550
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:52,719
Speaker 3: red and black scarf tied around his neck. His ashes

1551
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:56,000
Speaker 3: were interred in the anarchist corner of the graveyard in Carrara.

1552
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 2: Man' that's dope. Also, nineteen ninety nine, great year to

1553
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 2: kind of clock out. Yeah, missed a lot of messinists,

1554
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 2: got to see most of the good star treks.

1555
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh yeah, Geno Bbe I got kind of

1556
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:20,679
Speaker 3: tiary when I was writing about the life of the anarchist. Spy, pilot, bombmaker, engineer, partisan,

1557
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 3: an invention, spilot, spilot, Margaret Oh spilot, yes, the spilot, Yes,

1558
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 3: an inventor of the guided missile system, which again not

1559
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 3: our best move. Later, I'm going to talk about a

1560
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 3: military invention, or actually a terrorism invention of the anarchist

1561
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 3: that's even worse. Uh oh, the Irish are mostly famous

1562
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 3: for it, but it was an Italian anarchist who later

1563
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 3: became a fascist. Anyway, back to our main story, people

1564
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:51,599
Speaker 3: trying to kill Mussolini. Only a few months after Gino

1565
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 3: one through Gino Two's grenade at Mussolini, another young hero

1566
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 3: stepped forward to give it as all a really young

1567
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 3: hero kind of a This is the most heartbreaking part

1568
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,360
Speaker 3: of the story. A fifteen year old kid who had

1569
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:07,639
Speaker 3: just quit the fascist youth and become an anarchist. That's

1570
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 3: good for him. Antio Zamboni.

1571
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 2: God damn it.

1572
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 3: I promised you, Zamboni.

1573
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 2: Get Jamie Loftus on the horn. She needs to know

1574
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 2: about this name.

1575
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,479
Speaker 3: I genuinely thought I was very glad that you were

1576
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 3: my guest until I got to Zamboni, and I was like, ah,

1577
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:25,800
Speaker 3: if I was gonna have anyone else, it would be

1578
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:31,320
Speaker 3: Jamie Loftus, also more experienced killing me. Never mind, No, no,

1579
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 3: I'm not allowed to join the bit about trying to

1580
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 3: implicate okay, just checking no.

1581
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Until the court case is over and the

1582
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 2: grand jury rules on the new evidence brought forward in

1583
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 2: that case, we probably should keep our mouths quiet.

1584
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 3: By a mysterious person with a bad, fake Boston accent. No,

1585
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 3: for anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, I'm

1586
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:55,200
Speaker 3: proud of you.

1587
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:58,719
Speaker 4: Well done. Way to be less terminally online.

1588
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 3: You should listen Jamie Loptis's podcasts. He should. Antio Zamboni

1589
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 3: was born into a working class political family in Bologna.

1590
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:10,720
Speaker 3: His parents were anarchists who became fascists, or at least

1591
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:14,280
Speaker 3: his father had. He was never baptized. His parents only

1592
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 3: had a civil union because they refused to let the

1593
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:18,640
Speaker 3: state or the church have anything to do with their

1594
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:25,120
Speaker 3: marriage before they became fascists. His father, Mamolo Zamboni, when

1595
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 3: he became a fascist, The New York Times called it

1596
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:33,439
Speaker 3: quote disassociating from radical action, because being an anarchist is radical,

1597
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 3: being a fascist is normal. According to the New York

1598
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:41,639
Speaker 3: Times in nineteen twenty six and now, yeah, Mamolo called

1599
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 3: himself quote an anarchist and a fascist. So okay, what

1600
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:46,679
Speaker 3: a guy.

1601
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of that too. Unfortunately, Oh yeah,

1602
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 2: I could look into there's a I mean, he considered

1603
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 2: himself and was very angry about other like people who

1604
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:00,960
Speaker 2: called themselves anarchists because he had a different attitude towards it.

1605
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 2: But the guy who wrote A Storm of Steel, Ernst Junger,

1606
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 2: was like called himself an anarch and I guess the

1607
01:25:09,080 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 2: difference is he just believed in anarchism for himself as

1608
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 2: like an individual choice, still serving the Nazi state. He

1609
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:21,759
Speaker 2: was kind of an incoherent fella politically in my opinion,

1610
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:24,280
Speaker 2: but wrote a very good World War One memoir.

1611
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 3: Well, I think that that sounds like approximately half of

1612
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:29,720
Speaker 3: the modern Libertarian party that the other half of the

1613
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 3: Libertarian party is very embarrassed about. Yeah. Yeah. Antio had

1614
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 3: two brothers, one of whom was in a Fascist militia,

1615
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 3: the other of whom was in the army. Antio was

1616
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 3: a young anarchist with way better politics than his dad,

1617
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 3: and he took a shot at Mussolini while the man

1618
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 3: drove past him in an open car. He missed, he

1619
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 3: pierced the Fascist collar, and the crowd killed him. Just

1620
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 3: stab this child to death. Oh I have you know

1621
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 3: a fifteen year old either like a kid or an adult. Yeah,

1622
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 3: Antio's a kid. This is a child. Yeah, I mean

1623
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 3: every fifteen year old is a child. But the crowd

1624
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:11,920
Speaker 3: knew they were killing a child.

1625
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they did.

1626
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:13,320
Speaker 4: Not.

1627
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 2: It was not just like somebody who could have passed

1628
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 2: for seventeen or eighteen, like they were very aware they

1629
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 2: were killing a kid.

1630
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, he could have passed for twelve. Yeah, gotcha. I

1631
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 3: looked at the I don't normally do this to myself,

1632
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:28,280
Speaker 3: but I looked at the corpse photo because the only

1633
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 3: other photos that anyone has of him is when he's

1634
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 3: like eight. You know, and his coward fascist father tried

1635
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 3: to distance himself from the actions of his son until

1636
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 3: after the war. But we'll get to that. The New

1637
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,599
Speaker 3: York Times reported the father walked into the police station

1638
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 3: to see the body and said, quote, I knew it

1639
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 3: would happen. It was faded. He was a strange boy

1640
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 3: with strange notions. I had a dreadful premonition that something

1641
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:53,680
Speaker 3: would happen to him. Our doctor said he might go

1642
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 3: mad one day. This is the father trying to save

1643
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 3: his own ass. It's not going to work. Then New

1644
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 3: York Times writes a little glowing article about Mussolini playing

1645
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 3: his violin with his wife and kids at home, taking

1646
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 3: solace after the attack. Then they talk about how everyone

1647
01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 3: is saying that if Mussolini stays alive, fascism will keep

1648
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:16,280
Speaker 3: Italy normal and peaceful.

1649
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 2: But if he were killed, it seems like what fascism

1650
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 2: will do.

1651
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:24,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, violent fascist might take over if Mussolini's killed.

1652
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 3: And on the exact same page of the New York

1653
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 3: Times from nineteen twenty six, there's a different article about

1654
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 3: fascist black shirts rating anti fascist newspapers at gunpoint.

1655
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 2: Uh huh. But you know, but in a normal way,

1656
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:40,799
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, yeah.

1657
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:45,680
Speaker 3: Being a fascist did not protect Mamolo the father. He

1658
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 3: and his sister in law were both sentenced to thirty

1659
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 3: years for being vaguely connected to antio. Basically, they're like, oh,

1660
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 3: the kid couldn't come up with doing it. It must

1661
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:56,840
Speaker 3: have been a plot by previously anarchy dad. But by

1662
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:00,839
Speaker 3: nineteen thirty two, the elder Zamboni received a pardon directly

1663
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 3: from Mussolini in exchange for becoming an informant for the fascists. Then,

1664
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 3: after the war, Mamlo went one eighty again and started

1665
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:13,280
Speaker 3: writing pamphlets speaking of the courage of his son and

1666
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 3: started publishing anarchist material again. Great he died in nineteen

1667
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:19,640
Speaker 3: fifty two. And he's not the only anarchist in the

1668
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:24,559
Speaker 3: story who went fascist and then anarchist again. Yeah, this guy,

1669
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 3: I don't like him.

1670
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, a lot of It's just like a lot

1671
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 2: of people are more dripp will always be a decent

1672
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 2: number of people, sizeable minority, always mostly just driven by

1673
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 2: whatever's pissing them off in the moment, you know, as

1674
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,120
Speaker 2: opposed to principles totally.

1675
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 3: I'm just so mad at him for turning his back

1676
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,280
Speaker 3: on his kid and trying to throw this dead kid

1677
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:46,760
Speaker 3: under the bus to save his own ass.

1678
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 2: I mean it sounds like a guy who sucks. Yeah,

1679
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:52,599
Speaker 2: sounds like a guy, a bastard that maybe someone should

1680
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 2: get behind.

1681
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:57,400
Speaker 3: I know, it's kind of a little weird guy too, Like, yeah,

1682
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,800
Speaker 3: after Antio is a t Mussolini. All other political parties

1683
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:05,600
Speaker 3: were outlawed, but they already didn't have any power, and

1684
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:07,799
Speaker 3: Mussolini was going to do that anyhow, was my argument.

1685
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 3: This more or less ends open anarchist organizing in Italy,

1686
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 3: as I understand it, And Mussolini brings back the death

1687
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:17,599
Speaker 3: penalty now for anyone trying to kill him or the king.

1688
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,560
Speaker 3: That didn't stop people from trying to kill him. No

1689
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 3: one tries to kill a dictator thinking it's a safe

1690
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:25,400
Speaker 3: thing to do.

1691
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 2: Nope. Yeah, nobody's ever killed a dictator being like this,

1692
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:33,720
Speaker 2: This is more relaxing than staying home at night and

1693
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:35,480
Speaker 2: reading the newspaper.

1694
01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to get away from this just fine.

1695
01:29:38,240 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, although later the people who do kill Missolini

1696
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 3: do but yeah.

1697
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:46,000
Speaker 2: That's a different time. That's really not an assassination.

1698
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:47,439
Speaker 1: No, no.

1699
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 3: The next attempt we're going to talk about was a

1700
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:54,240
Speaker 3: man who, like Atano Breshi before him, abandoned the safety

1701
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 3: of the United States and kind of abandoned his family

1702
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,560
Speaker 3: there to return to Italy to try and do what

1703
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 3: was right. His name was Mikela Shiroukay, which to me

1704
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:09,760
Speaker 3: looks like it's spelled Michelle if anyone's curious, But it's

1705
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 3: like the French. But it's not. It's Italian, so it's Maclay. Micklay.

1706
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 3: Shiro was born in eighteen ninety nine on Sardinia, which

1707
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 3: is an Italian island. His father had already emigrated to

1708
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 3: the US, and Michaelay was raised by his mother. He

1709
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:26,920
Speaker 3: was twice arrested in demonstrations as a kid. He was

1710
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 3: conscripted into World War One, and, like a lot of

1711
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 3: anarchists at the time, he was hoping the war would

1712
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 3: turn into a war of liberation. It did not famously.

1713
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 2: It's a bummer, yeah.

1714
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,720
Speaker 3: Mcklay became convinced of anarchism after the Communist Party, he

1715
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 3: felt sold out the factory occupations and let the bosses

1716
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 3: back in. He eventually moves to Manhattan. He starts fighting

1717
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:52,160
Speaker 3: Italian fascists in the streets. He worked as a mechanic

1718
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:55,200
Speaker 3: and then he became a banana wholesaler in the Bronx.

1719
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:59,519
Speaker 3: He married an Irish American woman named Minnie. He had

1720
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 3: two kids. I think he had a son and a daughter.

1721
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 3: But he was watching Italy fall to fascism and he

1722
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 3: couldn't handle it. He was like, someone's got to do something.

1723
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 3: I'm someone. I'm gonna do something. He went first to

1724
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 3: France and then likely coordinated with anarchists there, but he

1725
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:19,720
Speaker 3: kept his mouth shut about it, so we never know.

1726
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 3: We'll never know like who else was involved because they

1727
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 3: were never arrested. He went up to Belgium and he

1728
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 3: worked in an anarchist bomb making workshop. I don't know,

1729
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:29,880
Speaker 3: there's like a like fly you go to like the

1730
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:31,640
Speaker 3: punk show and there's a flyer. It's like, hey, come

1731
01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:35,360
Speaker 3: to the anarchist bomb making workshop. This Saturday. Yeah, but

1732
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 3: he made himself two bombs, and then he traveled to

1733
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:41,680
Speaker 3: Rome in January nineteen thirty one. M h, we've only

1734
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 3: got his confession under duress to work from, so we don't.

1735
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 3: You know, famously not always the most honest and not

1736
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 3: a great source. Yeah. But his original plan, he said,

1737
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 3: was that he was going to use the bombs in

1738
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 3: Paris against the Soviet embassy in revenge for the murder

1739
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,160
Speaker 3: of anarchists in the USSR. But then he decided to

1740
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 3: kill Mussolini himself. I think that that was his backup plan.

1741
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:07,960
Speaker 3: I think that he went to I think he went

1742
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:12,400
Speaker 3: back to Europe to try and kill Mscelini. But in

1743
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,320
Speaker 3: Rome he rented two hotel rooms, one for himself and

1744
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 3: one for his bombs, because bombs need privacy too, you know,

1745
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:20,599
Speaker 3: of course.

1746
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:25,520
Speaker 2: Yes, that's actually my primary political issue, yeah, is extending

1747
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:30,240
Speaker 2: privacy rights to modern military explosives. You know, nobody needs

1748
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:32,320
Speaker 2: to know what a couple of jade ams get up

1749
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:35,599
Speaker 2: to in their spare time. That's between them and God

1750
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:37,599
Speaker 2: and whatever village they're hitting.

1751
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 3: While he was there, he was either shacking up with

1752
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:47,599
Speaker 3: or conspiring with a Hungarian dancer named Anna Lukowski. If

1753
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 3: I were writing the story, it would be both. Also,

1754
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 3: everyone writes sex work out of history, so I would

1755
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:55,640
Speaker 3: put money that she was a sex worker, But that

1756
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 3: doesn't make her less or more likely to have been

1757
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:01,599
Speaker 3: one of the conspirators. And there is reason to believe

1758
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:04,680
Speaker 3: that he is part of a broader conspiracy working, but

1759
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:06,680
Speaker 3: he never rats them out. And the reason that we

1760
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 3: think this is that he spent money really freely while

1761
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 3: he was there. He was renting two hotel rooms, but

1762
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:16,320
Speaker 3: he had no money on him when he was arrested,

1763
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 3: and there was like no money in any of the

1764
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:21,360
Speaker 3: rooms or whatever. Right, So he was probably working with

1765
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 3: a bunch of people who wanted Mussolini dead. A lot

1766
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:27,720
Speaker 3: of people wanted Mussolini dead. Yeah, for some reason, his

1767
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 3: plan was really simple. One of his hotel rooms overlooked

1768
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:33,840
Speaker 3: a common route for Mussolini's car. He was going to

1769
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:38,320
Speaker 3: wait and drop a bomb on Mussolini, but he wanted

1770
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 3: to do it when there was no bystanders around, of course,

1771
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 3: And this is the thing that has come up a

1772
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:44,680
Speaker 3: bunch of times on the show, but has left out

1773
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:49,200
Speaker 3: a lot of the sensationless stuff about bomb assassinations, as

1774
01:33:49,280 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 3: all of the bystanders who get killed. There have been

1775
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 3: so many times in history, and there's gonna be two

1776
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:57,880
Speaker 3: in this episode where people don't do it because they

1777
01:33:57,920 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 3: can't find a way to do it without hurting people.

1778
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:04,880
Speaker 3: He's there for like three weeks and he can't find

1779
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:07,559
Speaker 3: a way to not hurt anyone else. He had all

1780
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:09,760
Speaker 3: but given up, and he was figuring he'd go back

1781
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 3: to Paris and attack the Soviets instead when he was

1782
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:17,320
Speaker 3: stopped on the street by cops on February third, nineteen

1783
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 3: thirty one. And I think he was just like stopped

1784
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:22,800
Speaker 3: for being a sketchy guy because it's a fascist state,

1785
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 3: you know, and they take him to a holding sell

1786
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:30,160
Speaker 3: for investigation. There were three cops in the room. He

1787
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:34,479
Speaker 3: pulled a gun and shot all three cops. Wow, and

1788
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 3: then he shouted long live anarchy and put the gun

1789
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,799
Speaker 3: in his own mouth and pulled the trigger. Well, okay,

1790
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:45,160
Speaker 3: all four men survived. Oh my god. Yeah wow.

1791
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 2: I mean that does have to win my award for

1792
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,720
Speaker 2: worst with a gun of anyone on this podcast. To

1793
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 2: shoot four people, including yourself and have them all live

1794
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 2: is a real yeah. Honestly though, I got to a

1795
01:34:58,240 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 2: given the time, something that probably just goes down to

1796
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:02,880
Speaker 2: how much worse ammunition was back then, you know, powder

1797
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:04,360
Speaker 2: loads were less reliable.

1798
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 3: He may have loaded himself, you know, yeah, like I

1799
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:10,160
Speaker 3: think he like he seriously injured one of the cops

1800
01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 3: in himself, Jesus Christ. He was like rushed to emergency surgery,

1801
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:18,880
Speaker 3: and they, you know, wanted him fit to stand trial.

1802
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:21,479
Speaker 2: Right, stand trial for killing no one.

1803
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:27,160
Speaker 3: That's actually part of the thing. I was reading newspapers

1804
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 3: at the time and they were like, look, shooting cops

1805
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:33,120
Speaker 3: didn't carry the death penalty, so it actually was against

1806
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:36,759
Speaker 3: their own laws to try and give him the death penalty.

1807
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:40,600
Speaker 3: But he admitted that he was there to kill Missolini.

1808
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 3: In fact, he pretty much they were like, what are

1809
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:45,000
Speaker 3: you doing? He was like, I'm here to kill Missolini.

1810
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:49,400
Speaker 3: He tried to write his wife, and his wife tried

1811
01:35:49,439 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 3: to write him while he was in jail, but their

1812
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:53,760
Speaker 3: letters were confiscated. He wrote to his father to the

1813
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:57,759
Speaker 3: same effect. In May nineteen thirty one, he was tried

1814
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:00,720
Speaker 3: by a fascist judge with no jury, and all the

1815
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:02,920
Speaker 3: lawyers and witnesses had to be put before a special

1816
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:06,879
Speaker 3: tribunal before they could come in. His defense was basically

1817
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:11,120
Speaker 3: I came here to blow out Mussolini during the trial,

1818
01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:14,519
Speaker 3: he decried both fascism and communism. They told him he

1819
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:17,240
Speaker 3: would be executed, shot in the back. He didn't say

1820
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:19,920
Speaker 3: a word as the sentence came down. When he was

1821
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:23,080
Speaker 3: asked if he had anything to add, he shrugged his shoulders.

1822
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 3: At two thirty am the next morning, they came into

1823
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:29,719
Speaker 3: his cell and told him he would be killed at sunrise.

1824
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:32,600
Speaker 3: He said he did not need a priest, and he

1825
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:34,600
Speaker 3: was shot in the back by a firing squad of

1826
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 3: twenty four fascists, folks from his home of Sardinia, who

1827
01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:41,360
Speaker 3: had volunteered specifically to kill him.

1828
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:46,040
Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's a nice at least you. No,

1829
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:50,040
Speaker 2: it's your guys. You went to high school with murdering. Yeah,

1830
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:52,679
Speaker 2: totally Actually sounds much worse.

1831
01:36:53,080 --> 01:36:57,479
Speaker 3: Yeah. His wife Minnie lived to nineteen eighty seven, dying

1832
01:36:57,520 --> 01:37:01,040
Speaker 3: at eighty three. Their son sparred A, died in two

1833
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,519
Speaker 3: thousand and five. I found an article I couldn't get

1834
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:08,320
Speaker 3: access to behind an academic wall of Spartaco writing about

1835
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 3: his father, and I'm kind of sad I couldn't get it.

1836
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 3: But here's an assassin who didn't go through with his

1837
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:18,679
Speaker 3: actions because he couldn't do it without hurting anyone else.

1838
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:24,560
Speaker 3: Now let's talk about the opposite sure, but before that,

1839
01:37:25,160 --> 01:37:29,639
Speaker 3: let's talk about the other opposite products and services. Ah,

1840
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:32,400
Speaker 3: I love products and services. Well, someone's going to get hurt.

1841
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 2: M's that's the promise we make.

1842
01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 3: Here they are and we're burke. We are burt. Now

1843
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:55,599
Speaker 3: I'm going to talk about my least favorite anarchist in history.

1844
01:37:56,320 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 2: Oh, there's a couple of jokes. There's a couple of

1845
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 2: jokes I could make.

1846
01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 3: People we know. But yeah, no, my least favorite anarchist

1847
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:11,439
Speaker 3: I've never met. You don't stay in a political scene

1848
01:38:11,479 --> 01:38:15,439
Speaker 3: without making a few. Let's go with frenemies. Yeah. So,

1849
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:18,800
Speaker 3: there's a long list of things anarchists have invented which

1850
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:21,400
Speaker 3: can be used for good or evil. The carriage mounted

1851
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:28,639
Speaker 3: machine gun, missiles apparently, the getaway car, foosball, steampunk, free

1852
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:33,880
Speaker 3: bike programs, signal, the messaging app. One thing that you

1853
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:36,639
Speaker 3: can say was probably invented by someone who called themselves

1854
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 3: an anarchist at the time was the car bomb.

1855
01:38:40,280 --> 01:38:44,360
Speaker 2: Uh well, yeah, look, I've seen a couple of car bombs.

1856
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:47,400
Speaker 2: I've even seen one kill people, and uh not a

1857
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 2: fan of car bombs. No, Well, it was a vbied,

1858
01:38:50,439 --> 01:38:53,639
Speaker 2: which I guess is like and it's in that line

1859
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:54,080
Speaker 2: of descent.

1860
01:38:54,439 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm still sorry you to see anyone die.

1861
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:00,680
Speaker 2: It's okay, I mostly I'm I mean they were far

1862
01:39:00,840 --> 01:39:02,799
Speaker 2: enough away that I just kind of saw them turned

1863
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 2: into smoke.

1864
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:06,120
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, no, I'm sure that doesn't have any effects

1865
01:39:06,160 --> 01:39:08,240
Speaker 3: on yourself. No, not at all, not at all.

1866
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1867
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:15,280
Speaker 3: Before the Oklahoma City bombing, the deadliest terrorist attack in

1868
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:19,280
Speaker 3: US history was the Wall Street bombing of September sixteenth,

1869
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty.

1870
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:21,600
Speaker 2: Oh. I have heard of this.

1871
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone it is not certain who used a horse

1872
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:30,680
Speaker 3: drawn wagon as the first car bomb. And every time

1873
01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:33,240
Speaker 3: I say the first in any show, it's like, you know,

1874
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 3: I don't know the first that I know about. Right,

1875
01:39:36,960 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 3: there's a whole book about the history of the car

1876
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 3: bomb called Buddha's Wagon, because we're going to get to ooh,

1877
01:39:40,600 --> 01:39:42,280
Speaker 3: that's how it was. Probably Mario Buddha.

1878
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:45,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, in this car bomb, I thought there were talk.

1879
01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:48,400
Speaker 2: I was hoping there were some Buddhist history with car

1880
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:50,639
Speaker 2: bombs that I hadn't heard. But okay, that makes sense.

1881
01:39:50,760 --> 01:39:54,160
Speaker 3: No, I mean maybe I don't know, but yes, in

1882
01:39:54,240 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 3: this carriage was one hundred pounds of dynamite, five hundred

1883
01:39:57,040 --> 01:40:01,200
Speaker 3: pounds of cast iron weights for shrapnel, and they rode

1884
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:02,960
Speaker 3: the horse up and then the driver got out and

1885
01:40:03,080 --> 01:40:06,400
Speaker 3: left and blew up on Wall Street, not in one

1886
01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 3: of the buildings. It killed forty people, and then like injure,

1887
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:13,439
Speaker 3: hundreds of people, and almost everyone that killed were like

1888
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:16,760
Speaker 3: fucking kids that worked as messengers and like clerks and shit.

1889
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:22,280
Speaker 2: Again, this is like the problem of like just this

1890
01:40:22,360 --> 01:40:25,639
Speaker 2: thing you get on Twitter whenever stuff happens where it's

1891
01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:28,400
Speaker 2: like somebody has attacked this group of people that like

1892
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:31,360
Speaker 2: leftists broadly dislike, and it's like, I don't know, wait

1893
01:40:31,360 --> 01:40:33,639
Speaker 2: a minute to see if that's who they hit. Yeah,

1894
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not talking about you know, the recent thing,

1895
01:40:36,200 --> 01:40:38,720
Speaker 2: but like it happens often where it's like yeah, it

1896
01:40:39,120 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 2: turns out like, oh no, no, that's not that's not

1897
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:44,639
Speaker 2: who got hurt. Yeah, because that's you know, with bombs,

1898
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:47,840
Speaker 2: very hard to be. It's the same thing, like it's

1899
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:50,400
Speaker 2: not just a leftist thing, Like it's mostly not a

1900
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 2: leftist thing. It's a thing that I grew up watching

1901
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:55,639
Speaker 2: all of the adults around me celebrate as like bombs

1902
01:40:55,720 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 2: got dropped in places that I now know because I

1903
01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:01,439
Speaker 2: understand more of out bombs and talk to people who

1904
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:03,479
Speaker 2: were in those places when they were being bombed. Were

1905
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 2: largely killing civilians because precision bombing is mostly a myth.

1906
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:08,719
Speaker 3: Yeah totally.

1907
01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:10,960
Speaker 2: It's just like people love explosions.

1908
01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 3: And the guy who had recently just tried to kill

1909
01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:17,519
Speaker 3: MUSSLINI earlier on the story didn't do it because it

1910
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:20,000
Speaker 3: wasn't a good buy chance. Yep.

1911
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:23,360
Speaker 2: And don't make bombs. I shouldn't need to say that.

1912
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:27,000
Speaker 2: Don't be making mombs. Don't do bombs bombs. Bomb's bad.

1913
01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:29,360
Speaker 2: You will not be the one who figures out how

1914
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:34,880
Speaker 2: to use bombs ethically, No one ever has been. Yeah.

1915
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:38,599
Speaker 3: And this wasn't some kids who died as collateral damage,

1916
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:41,759
Speaker 3: but we killed some big shots. This was all collateral damage,

1917
01:41:42,120 --> 01:41:43,960
Speaker 3: no regular damage. Cool.

1918
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 2: Really put the fear of God into those people who

1919
01:41:48,120 --> 01:41:48,840
Speaker 2: didn't get hurt.

1920
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:53,920
Speaker 3: Yep. And I would argue that of every major political

1921
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 3: ideology of the last two hundred years, ANA because I'm

1922
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:58,080
Speaker 3: probably is the least innocent blood on its hands.

1923
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:01,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, in part because we we generally don't

1924
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:04,720
Speaker 2: wind up in power. Yeah totally, which is you know,

1925
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:08,439
Speaker 2: I mean, is part of the goal. But yeah, totally.

1926
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:12,360
Speaker 2: But the Wall Street bombing is a decent chunk of

1927
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:13,959
Speaker 2: the innocent blood on our hands.

1928
01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:14,760
Speaker 3: Of the anatist movement.

1929
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:15,960
Speaker 2: That's a bad one.

1930
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:20,360
Speaker 3: The most likely suspect is an Italian anarchist named Mario Buddha,

1931
01:42:21,080 --> 01:42:24,760
Speaker 3: who was actually probably with Sacho when they robbed and

1932
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:27,880
Speaker 3: killed those people in the Sacho and Vanzetti case. Mario

1933
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:31,479
Speaker 3: Budda is like a mystery man in history and there's

1934
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:32,920
Speaker 3: a lot of like takes on him, and he was

1935
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:35,719
Speaker 3: like kind of almost everywhere that like violence was happening.

1936
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:42,040
Speaker 3: Mario Buddha went on to almost certainly become a fascist

1937
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:49,040
Speaker 3: infemant in Italy. Cool, yeah, and almost certainly foil another

1938
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:53,280
Speaker 3: anarchist attempt on Mussolini's life. He is the worst. Yeah,

1939
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:53,800
Speaker 3: you're right.

1940
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 2: That is as shitty as you can possibly be as

1941
01:42:57,120 --> 01:43:02,240
Speaker 2: an anarchist militant. I know, honestly, I'm mad. I'm mad,

1942
01:43:02,360 --> 01:43:04,920
Speaker 2: but I am a little impressed. Yeah, Like, if I

1943
01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:07,720
Speaker 2: was making up an anarchist for you to get mad at,

1944
01:43:07,840 --> 01:43:08,920
Speaker 2: I couldn't do better than this.

1945
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:12,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely. After murdering a bunch of kids and shit in

1946
01:43:12,439 --> 01:43:13,960
Speaker 3: the name of anarchy, he made his way back to

1947
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:15,360
Speaker 3: Italy got caught up in the hubbub.

1948
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it stops someone from killing Musolini. Yeah, yeah, Jesus.

1949
01:43:22,439 --> 01:43:24,560
Speaker 3: By nineteen thirty three, it seems likely that he is

1950
01:43:24,600 --> 01:43:27,280
Speaker 3: cooperating with police informing on anarchists, and a lot of

1951
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:31,000
Speaker 3: like people who are really into anarchist history are skeptical

1952
01:43:31,080 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 3: of this because for a while, the only information that

1953
01:43:33,320 --> 01:43:36,880
Speaker 3: anyone had about this was that a communist newspaper accused

1954
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:39,360
Speaker 3: him of this. At the time, yeah, and a lot

1955
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:41,200
Speaker 3: of people, even anarchists, listened and were like, oh, we

1956
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:43,360
Speaker 3: don't trust this guy anymore. But other people were like, oh,

1957
01:43:43,400 --> 01:43:46,920
Speaker 3: that's the communist plain sectarian politics. And then later you

1958
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 3: can see historians have done the work of being like

1959
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:52,040
Speaker 3: here's where Mario Budo was dropped off the list of

1960
01:43:52,160 --> 01:43:54,760
Speaker 3: dangerous anarchists to keep an eye out for, and like

1961
01:43:54,840 --> 01:43:57,640
Speaker 3: here's you know, he's basically like the fascist took him

1962
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:01,840
Speaker 3: under their wing. And even if half of what they

1963
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:04,240
Speaker 3: say about Mario Buddha is true, I don't like him

1964
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:06,240
Speaker 3: at all. I don't like blowing up kids on Wall Street.

1965
01:44:06,240 --> 01:44:08,280
Speaker 3: I don't like cooperating fascists, I don't like Foilian an

1966
01:44:08,280 --> 01:44:09,479
Speaker 3: attempt Mussolini's life.

1967
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah again, I uh yeah. Really. One of my very

1968
01:44:12,720 --> 01:44:15,400
Speaker 2: few lines is you probably should don't go don't be

1969
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:19,519
Speaker 2: killing kids. dB kk. That's my little like, what would

1970
01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:23,479
Speaker 2: Jesus do? Bracelet in case you ever need not kill cat? Yeah,

1971
01:44:23,560 --> 01:44:25,640
Speaker 2: look at a bracelet. Oh no, you know what, I

1972
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:27,040
Speaker 2: shouldn't kill kids.

1973
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1974
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:30,840
Speaker 2: Also, if you need to look at a bracelet to

1975
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:35,880
Speaker 2: remind you not to kill kids, I would. Maybe there's

1976
01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:37,439
Speaker 2: a lot of things you probably need to do.

1977
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:38,439
Speaker 3: Therapy.

1978
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:38,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1979
01:44:40,680 --> 01:44:43,800
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, back to a regular anarchist, when I like, who

1980
01:44:43,840 --> 01:44:47,080
Speaker 3: doesn't become a fascist? Sure, there's a blacksmith named Umberto.

1981
01:44:47,160 --> 01:44:51,640
Speaker 3: I promise you another Mberto Thomasini. Umberto got involved in

1982
01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:54,280
Speaker 3: politics when he was thirteen. He joined the nineteen oh

1983
01:44:54,360 --> 01:44:56,360
Speaker 3: nine General Strike in response to the murder of the

1984
01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:59,400
Speaker 3: Spanish anarchists educator and veteran of the Pod franc Sisc Farrar.

1985
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:01,760
Speaker 3: He went on to fight in World War One. He

1986
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:05,280
Speaker 3: won a Cross for valor. But according to his own take,

1987
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:06,880
Speaker 3: what happened is he got to the war because he

1988
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:09,160
Speaker 3: was conscripted and he just shot into the air and

1989
01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:10,599
Speaker 3: he was like trying not to kill anyone.

1990
01:45:11,360 --> 01:45:14,080
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's actually I mean, there's some evidence, although

1991
01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:17,880
Speaker 2: the studies around it have been to a degree, there's

1992
01:45:17,920 --> 01:45:20,479
Speaker 2: a lot of critiques about them, but like some evidence

1993
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:23,799
Speaker 2: that that was more the norm than not with combat soldiers.

1994
01:45:24,280 --> 01:45:26,559
Speaker 3: And I bet especially when you're talking about like trenches

1995
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:29,639
Speaker 3: and stuff, where you're yes, yes, go shoot that dot

1996
01:45:29,720 --> 01:45:31,960
Speaker 3: on the horizon, whereas like if someone's like running through

1997
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:34,439
Speaker 3: a trench trying to kill me, I'm like, I'm gonna

1998
01:45:34,439 --> 01:45:37,880
Speaker 3: shoot that man, even if we have the same political ideology,

1999
01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:39,560
Speaker 3: if someone's trying to kill me with that, I just

2000
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:43,000
Speaker 3: don't want to get shot. Yeah, but yeah, no, totally.

2001
01:45:43,880 --> 01:45:46,679
Speaker 3: And he He spent some time as a pow during

2002
01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:48,800
Speaker 3: the war, and then he returned home to return to

2003
01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:51,600
Speaker 3: work as a blacksmith, and he more formally committed to

2004
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 3: anarchism alongside his brothers, who, like all everyone else, they

2005
01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:57,600
Speaker 3: left the Socialist Party in nineteen twenty one after the

2006
01:45:57,680 --> 01:46:01,160
Speaker 3: Socialist sold out the movement. Again, I don't know as

2007
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:03,840
Speaker 3: much about that, but that is what Umberto felt, and

2008
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:07,719
Speaker 3: his brothers felt. Umberto's life could easily be his own episode.

2009
01:46:08,120 --> 01:46:10,240
Speaker 3: He helped get the bombs from one Gino to the

2010
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:12,920
Speaker 3: other Gino in nineteen twenty six, then spent six years

2011
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:16,040
Speaker 3: in prison during the crackdown on it. Like after Musolin

2012
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:17,400
Speaker 3: he came to power, he sent a whole bunch of

2013
01:46:17,439 --> 01:46:21,200
Speaker 3: the anarchists to prison. Right during those six years he

2014
01:46:21,280 --> 01:46:25,479
Speaker 3: met an anarchist in prison named Mario Buddha. Then Umberto

2015
01:46:25,560 --> 01:46:28,799
Speaker 3: fled Italy on foot to Yugoslavia. Then he went to Paris,

2016
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 3: where he met his partner Anna and had his son Renee.

2017
01:46:32,479 --> 01:46:34,840
Speaker 3: In nineteen thirty six, Spain was under attack and so

2018
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:37,760
Speaker 3: Umberto left the then safety of Paris to go to

2019
01:46:37,840 --> 01:46:42,080
Speaker 3: the front lines teaching anarchists about trench warfare. And then

2020
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:44,559
Speaker 3: he became an anarchist specops guy, and he went off

2021
01:46:44,600 --> 01:46:46,040
Speaker 3: to go mine franco As ships.

2022
01:46:46,720 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 2: Oh cool, I know, the opposite of the guy who

2023
01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:51,800
Speaker 2: just killed children and saved Mussolini.

2024
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:55,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly, and he shouldn't have been friends with

2025
01:46:55,400 --> 01:46:59,960
Speaker 3: that guy. He was arrested by Stalinists and prevented from

2026
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:01,920
Speaker 3: attacking the fascists while he was off to go mind

2027
01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:05,320
Speaker 3: these ships. He broke out of Stalinis prison, and then

2028
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:07,519
Speaker 3: he returned back to the prison he'd just broken out

2029
01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:11,240
Speaker 3: of alongside anarchists from the government to negotiate everyone's release.

2030
01:47:11,640 --> 01:47:16,080
Speaker 3: I think this is the same situation as the last man,

2031
01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:19,639
Speaker 3: the missile inventor man. But this might have just happened

2032
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:21,840
Speaker 3: a bunch of times, yeah, because I read about these

2033
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:26,360
Speaker 3: in different sources. Then in nineteen thirty seven, he goes

2034
01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:29,200
Speaker 3: back to France, so we can plot how to kill Mussolini.

2035
01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:33,800
Speaker 3: One problem. One of his co conspirators, a man who

2036
01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:37,600
Speaker 3: has absolute trust for is Mario Budda, whom he had

2037
01:47:37,640 --> 01:47:41,439
Speaker 3: met in prison. Mario leaked the plan to the Italian police,

2038
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:46,040
Speaker 3: who foiled it. After the war, Mario Budda went back

2039
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:47,080
Speaker 3: to the anarchist movement.

2040
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:54,679
Speaker 2: Hooray, great, he sounds trustworthy. I'm sure really worked on things.

2041
01:47:55,280 --> 01:47:58,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, don't want to cancel him just for

2042
01:47:59,640 --> 01:48:04,760
Speaker 3: saving Mussolini's life and murdering children. I can't find much

2043
01:48:04,800 --> 01:48:08,360
Speaker 3: about this particular assassination attempt that he foiled. Mostly I

2044
01:48:08,400 --> 01:48:10,679
Speaker 3: found a lot of ins and outs about the informant.

2045
01:48:11,720 --> 01:48:15,320
Speaker 3: But to follow umberto, He, like so many other anarchists,

2046
01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:17,880
Speaker 3: wound up in a non Nazi concentration camp in France.

2047
01:48:18,280 --> 01:48:20,320
Speaker 3: Then he was turned over to the Italian police, where

2048
01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:23,160
Speaker 3: he was imprisoned until the end of the war. Finally

2049
01:48:23,320 --> 01:48:25,639
Speaker 3: he's freed. He returns to his wife and his son,

2050
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:28,120
Speaker 3: and his work as a blacksmith, and to anarchist organizing.

2051
01:48:28,880 --> 01:48:31,559
Speaker 3: When the spirit of sixty eight swings through, he starts

2052
01:48:31,680 --> 01:48:35,559
Speaker 3: organizing again. He's like about seventy years old, and he's

2053
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:37,640
Speaker 3: like organizing with a bunch of twenty year old kids, right,

2054
01:48:37,680 --> 01:48:39,599
Speaker 3: because it's the it's nineteen sixty eight.

2055
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:42,760
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's who there's going to be to organize with.

2056
01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's Coole as shit. He kept publishing

2057
01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:47,920
Speaker 3: shit that would send him back to jail. I think

2058
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:49,920
Speaker 3: he was sent back to jail like multiple times just

2059
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:53,720
Speaker 3: for continuing to publish anarchist literature. And then he died

2060
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:56,720
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty. He wrote an autobiography, but I don't

2061
01:48:56,720 --> 01:48:59,360
Speaker 3: believe it's been translated. And there's a documentary about him

2062
01:48:59,400 --> 01:49:01,679
Speaker 3: called An Anarchist Life from twenty thirteen that I haven't

2063
01:49:01,680 --> 01:49:04,960
Speaker 3: seen yet that I want to see. And he was

2064
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:07,560
Speaker 3: real cool. But I don't know what he did to

2065
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 3: try and Colle Mussolini. I just know he made the

2066
01:49:09,479 --> 01:49:10,040
Speaker 3: wrong friend.

2067
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:12,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we all do sometimes.

2068
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:13,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2069
01:49:13,280 --> 01:49:15,599
Speaker 2: For example, I mean there was there was one summer

2070
01:49:15,640 --> 01:49:18,240
Speaker 2: that Benita Mussolini and I were inseparable. I mean we

2071
01:49:18,280 --> 01:49:22,000
Speaker 2: would spend just hours on the beach, telling each other's secrets,

2072
01:49:22,040 --> 01:49:24,760
Speaker 2: having pig nicks. You know, there was there was that

2073
01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:27,760
Speaker 2: one wine drenched to night, and then I found out

2074
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:30,280
Speaker 2: he'd been the dictator of Italy this whole time. I

2075
01:49:30,360 --> 01:49:32,880
Speaker 2: had no idea, Margaret, I had no idea.

2076
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:33,439
Speaker 1: I know.

2077
01:49:34,200 --> 01:49:37,000
Speaker 3: I mean, what's funny is that pre him becoming Mussolini.

2078
01:49:37,560 --> 01:49:39,479
Speaker 3: That is the story that a lot of people tell.

2079
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:43,280
Speaker 3: People do have that story, like the woman Lita, who

2080
01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:45,519
Speaker 3: is probably his lover, who is an anarchist, who was

2081
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:51,000
Speaker 3: like later she was like I misjudged his character, you know, Yeah,

2082
01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:55,000
Speaker 3: he whom'st amongst us hasn't been friends with the inventor

2083
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:56,240
Speaker 3: of fascism?

2084
01:49:57,320 --> 01:50:00,400
Speaker 2: Well, Cohen, I mean, let's we've got a There was

2085
01:50:00,400 --> 01:50:02,920
Speaker 2: another Italian who might deserve that title a little more.

2086
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:06,439
Speaker 2: But we talked about him on Behind the Bastards. Wait

2087
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:09,040
Speaker 2: which one, Oh, the guy who wore a banana hamnock?

2088
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:11,599
Speaker 2: One sec Wait what does.

2089
01:50:11,600 --> 01:50:12,719
Speaker 3: He invent the banana hammock?

2090
01:50:13,560 --> 01:50:16,960
Speaker 4: No? No, no, but he I don't remember this person's

2091
01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:19,240
Speaker 4: name either. We definitely talked about it though.

2092
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:24,920
Speaker 2: Gabriel Danunzio, Yeah, yes, Gabriel Danunzio, who was a big

2093
01:50:25,000 --> 01:50:29,840
Speaker 2: influence on Mussolini and was like is often credited as

2094
01:50:30,240 --> 01:50:34,759
Speaker 2: the inventor of fascism. He never called himself a fascist.

2095
01:50:34,800 --> 01:50:37,720
Speaker 2: He's like partially right, there's not just one guy, but

2096
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:41,519
Speaker 2: he is earlier in the chain of the development of

2097
01:50:41,560 --> 01:50:45,400
Speaker 2: fascist mes a concept than Mussolini and an influence on Benito.

2098
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:45,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2099
01:50:46,120 --> 01:50:48,400
Speaker 2: Oh h yeah, Gabriel Danunzio. You can listen to our

2100
01:50:48,439 --> 01:50:50,760
Speaker 2: two parter on him, very much worth it. He is

2101
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:53,000
Speaker 2: the guy who in Fume as an independent city. He's

2102
01:50:53,000 --> 01:50:55,360
Speaker 2: a guy who marches into Fume and takes it over

2103
01:50:55,880 --> 01:50:59,160
Speaker 2: as like, oh, along with a bunch of there were

2104
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 2: anarchists and communists and fascists all kind of together because

2105
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:06,000
Speaker 2: they were all very much anti just all of the

2106
01:51:06,080 --> 01:51:09,160
Speaker 2: things that are going on right now, but those ideologies

2107
01:51:09,240 --> 01:51:12,679
Speaker 2: hadn't really hardened into in the concrete way they would

2108
01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:15,880
Speaker 2: a couple of years later. Fascinating time, kind of like

2109
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:18,479
Speaker 2: how a lot of our most prominent right wing fas

2110
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:21,360
Speaker 2: a lot of them are prominent fascist media ideologues today,

2111
01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:24,080
Speaker 2: were part of occupy. Yeah.

2112
01:51:25,160 --> 01:51:28,479
Speaker 3: God, Actually, the occupy versus Fume thing is actually makes

2113
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:31,040
Speaker 3: a lot of really specific sense. That's the thing that's

2114
01:51:31,080 --> 01:51:33,600
Speaker 3: like it's so hard to talk about. Is that in

2115
01:51:33,680 --> 01:51:37,160
Speaker 3: a certain way, fascism is the red Brown alliance because

2116
01:51:37,200 --> 01:51:41,320
Speaker 3: it is taking ideas from leftism but applying into right

2117
01:51:41,360 --> 01:51:42,440
Speaker 3: wing ideology.

2118
01:51:43,120 --> 01:51:46,120
Speaker 2: Yes, well, two.

2119
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:49,160
Speaker 3: More people at least tried to kill Mussolini. One of

2120
01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:52,719
Speaker 3: them don't know much about. Isn't even on the list

2121
01:51:52,760 --> 01:51:55,800
Speaker 3: of people who tried to kill Mussolini Wikipedia. His name

2122
01:51:55,880 --> 01:52:00,479
Speaker 3: is Domenico Bavone and he was a Republican. Republican on

2123
01:52:00,560 --> 01:52:03,920
Speaker 3: our list. He tried to build bombs to kill Mussolini,

2124
01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:06,880
Speaker 3: but he didn't go to the bomb making workshop for

2125
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:10,200
Speaker 3: the punk show Flyer told him about in Brussels. That's

2126
01:52:10,240 --> 01:52:13,439
Speaker 3: a shame. So he failed at making the bombs properly,

2127
01:52:13,800 --> 01:52:15,679
Speaker 3: and he blew up his own house on September fifth,

2128
01:52:15,720 --> 01:52:17,320
Speaker 3: nineteen thirty one, killing his own mother.

2129
01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:21,280
Speaker 2: Well, bad job, bro, that's a that's about his bad

2130
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:25,320
Speaker 2: I mean. And again, don't build bombs. There are so many.

2131
01:52:25,439 --> 01:52:29,760
Speaker 2: By far, the most normal story in political radical tries

2132
01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:33,200
Speaker 2: to make a bomb is political radical kills themselves, their

2133
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:37,800
Speaker 2: friends or their family. Yeah, yeah, don't make bombs. Yeah,

2134
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:39,560
Speaker 2: they're very indiscriminate.

2135
01:52:40,240 --> 01:52:44,520
Speaker 3: And under interrogation he admitted he was trying to kill Mussolini,

2136
01:52:45,080 --> 01:52:47,200
Speaker 3: and he was shot in the back by a firing squad.

2137
01:52:48,560 --> 01:52:55,560
Speaker 3: And then there is Angelo Pellegrono Sabard Aletto. Angelo was

2138
01:52:55,640 --> 01:52:58,400
Speaker 3: born in nineteen oh seven in mel Italy, and he

2139
01:52:58,520 --> 01:53:00,640
Speaker 3: was the fifth of eleven children, which means I do

2140
01:53:00,760 --> 01:53:02,599
Speaker 3: not need to tell you he was from a Catholic family,

2141
01:53:02,840 --> 01:53:06,519
Speaker 3: but he was His family was poor as hell. The

2142
01:53:06,640 --> 01:53:09,080
Speaker 3: article I read specifically indicated they were poor as hell

2143
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:12,040
Speaker 3: because they had eleven children. But you know, whatever you do,

2144
01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:14,040
Speaker 3: you people can make their own decisions on how many

2145
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:17,920
Speaker 3: kids to have. They fled poverty to France, then Luxembourg,

2146
01:53:18,040 --> 01:53:22,000
Speaker 3: then Belgium. Angelo was a miner and a machine hand.

2147
01:53:22,240 --> 01:53:24,880
Speaker 3: He became an anarchist as a teenager, talking to other

2148
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:28,760
Speaker 3: immigrant workers who were mostly political refugees. Soon enough he

2149
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:32,160
Speaker 3: was on lists of dangerous extremists and draft dodgers and shit.

2150
01:53:33,200 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 3: And he was inspired by Mikelo Sheirou and he met

2151
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:40,439
Speaker 3: almost the exact same fate. In nineteen thirty two, he

2152
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:43,920
Speaker 3: went to Rome to kill Mussolini, but like Maclay before him,

2153
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:46,600
Speaker 3: he couldn't find a moment when he could bomb Mussolini

2154
01:53:46,640 --> 01:53:51,400
Speaker 3: without hurting anyone else. He spent months trying. Just bought

2155
01:53:51,400 --> 01:53:55,120
Speaker 3: a gun. That man should have bought a gun. I

2156
01:53:55,200 --> 01:53:56,200
Speaker 3: mean whatever, I.

2157
01:53:56,200 --> 01:53:57,720
Speaker 2: Don't know how hard it was to buy guns in

2158
01:53:57,760 --> 01:54:00,559
Speaker 2: Mussolini's Italy, fair enough, Yeah.

2159
01:54:01,120 --> 01:54:04,960
Speaker 3: But you know, he spent months trying, and he was

2160
01:54:05,000 --> 01:54:07,240
Speaker 3: on the verge of giving up when, like mcklay, he

2161
01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:11,080
Speaker 3: was arrested seemingly by happenstance on a train station, just

2162
01:54:11,160 --> 01:54:13,400
Speaker 3: like some cops were like, Eh, you're suspicious, We're going

2163
01:54:13,439 --> 01:54:17,760
Speaker 3: to search you. Which is you know, fascism. Also, the

2164
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:19,720
Speaker 3: same thing happens in New York City subways, but you

2165
01:54:19,800 --> 01:54:23,640
Speaker 3: know whatever. Yeah, when he was searched, he had a

2166
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:26,720
Speaker 3: Swiss passport, a pistol. Oh, he had a fucking gun.

2167
01:54:28,120 --> 01:54:32,320
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I guess not that hard, yeah, question answered.

2168
01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:36,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and two bombs and he was tortured, and under

2169
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:39,000
Speaker 3: torture he said he was there to avenge mckelay Shiro.

2170
01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:43,480
Speaker 3: He'd written a letter previously that year that said, quote,

2171
01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:47,200
Speaker 3: I have no choice to be free. Tyranny must be

2172
01:54:47,320 --> 01:54:49,960
Speaker 3: beaten to build tomorrow a new order in which all

2173
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:52,360
Speaker 3: can enjoy the fruits of their labor and freely express

2174
01:54:52,440 --> 01:54:56,160
Speaker 3: their thoughts. We must destroy today all the injustices which

2175
01:54:56,200 --> 01:55:00,480
Speaker 3: render this impossible. His trial was a show trial. It

2176
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:03,520
Speaker 3: was two days long. Journalists decried him as surly and

2177
01:55:03,680 --> 01:55:06,480
Speaker 3: sinister and would like literally make stuff up about how

2178
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:08,600
Speaker 3: he looked. They were like he had a low forehead,

2179
01:55:09,280 --> 01:55:12,680
Speaker 3: you know, which he didn't. But even if he did,

2180
01:55:12,800 --> 01:55:16,240
Speaker 3: fuck you, you know. His lawyer asked him to write

2181
01:55:16,280 --> 01:55:19,640
Speaker 3: Ussolini for clemency. He refused. He shouted long Live Anarchy

2182
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:22,600
Speaker 3: when he was shot in the back. After he was killed,

2183
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:26,480
Speaker 3: the Fascist government decided to hide forever his burial site.

2184
01:55:27,080 --> 01:55:31,040
Speaker 3: No one knows where his body is. A biographer for

2185
01:55:31,160 --> 01:55:33,920
Speaker 3: Mussolini said that he would have pardoned the anarchists if

2186
01:55:33,920 --> 01:55:37,720
Speaker 3: they had asked, because he lauded their courage. I mean,

2187
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:41,280
Speaker 3: considering a lot of his fucking people were former anarchists. Yep,

2188
01:55:41,440 --> 01:55:44,880
Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe you would have, but fuck that,

2189
01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:48,040
Speaker 3: I mean whatever. I wouldn't be mad if anyone was like, oh,

2190
01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:50,720
Speaker 3: please don't kill me, mister Missolini, whatever, I would be like,

2191
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:52,440
Speaker 3: you weakling, give the shit.

2192
01:55:53,080 --> 01:55:55,400
Speaker 2: Yeah Mussolini, I hardly know.

2193
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:55,640
Speaker 1: Ye.

2194
01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, did I already do that joke? It just occurred

2195
01:55:58,800 --> 01:55:59,000
Speaker 2: to me.

2196
01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:03,440
Speaker 5: So yeah.

2197
01:56:03,480 --> 01:56:05,520
Speaker 3: Originally I was going to talk about the Partisans who

2198
01:56:05,560 --> 01:56:07,880
Speaker 3: finally did him in. But I think we've covered a

2199
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:11,120
Speaker 3: lot of trying to kill Mussolini. There are too many

2200
01:56:11,160 --> 01:56:12,720
Speaker 3: cool people. I didn't want a skim pass. You got

2201
01:56:12,760 --> 01:56:15,400
Speaker 3: a Socialist, a Catholic, or Republican, at least five anarchists

2202
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:17,120
Speaker 3: who tried to do him in. But it took a

2203
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 3: whole ass war. We got him in the end, though.

2204
01:56:19,800 --> 01:56:22,040
Speaker 2: And you know what folks would I'll say right now,

2205
01:56:22,240 --> 01:56:24,600
Speaker 2: is you can still try to take a shot at

2206
01:56:24,680 --> 01:56:26,480
Speaker 2: Mussolini and he's a lot easier to hit.

2207
01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:30,280
Speaker 3: Now. I assume he's buried somewhere. Probably I feel like, yeah,

2208
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:33,480
Speaker 3: go dig him up, Yeah, and take a shot.

2209
01:56:34,040 --> 01:56:34,600
Speaker 2: Take a shot.

2210
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:39,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, hard miss that way. Yeah, gender neutral shooting range,

2211
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:40,400
Speaker 3: that's what they say.

2212
01:56:42,480 --> 01:56:45,360
Speaker 2: Take a shot with. You know, it could just be

2213
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:48,080
Speaker 2: with the tool that you have on hand, so to speak.

2214
01:56:49,640 --> 01:56:50,800
Speaker 2: That was a penis joke.

2215
01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, we know. I could have been a p joke

2216
01:56:54,240 --> 01:56:56,240
Speaker 3: because you can have a tool on hand without a penis.

2217
01:56:56,280 --> 01:56:58,080
Speaker 2: You're right, you could use You can use a shili

2218
01:56:58,280 --> 01:57:00,440
Speaker 2: for example. You know there's all sorts of g or

2219
01:57:00,600 --> 01:57:03,120
Speaker 2: just you cut the bottom of a water bottle out

2220
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:05,600
Speaker 2: and then like cut the top to widen it and

2221
01:57:05,680 --> 01:57:08,400
Speaker 2: you kind of jam it in there. It sort of works.

2222
01:57:09,240 --> 01:57:10,920
Speaker 3: And I can't believe that's the note we're ending on,

2223
01:57:11,080 --> 01:57:15,640
Speaker 3: but that's where we're at. Everyone, Uh go kill Mussolini,

2224
01:57:15,880 --> 01:57:18,320
Speaker 3: but only Mussolini. We're talking about the past.

2225
01:57:18,520 --> 01:57:20,000
Speaker 2: Yes, only in the past.

2226
01:57:20,760 --> 01:57:22,720
Speaker 3: And if you want to know more about the knock

2227
01:57:22,800 --> 01:57:25,120
Speaker 3: on effects of various types of violence, listen to this

2228
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:28,440
Speaker 3: entire show's history because it is full of knock on effects,

2229
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:29,680
Speaker 3: many of which are negative.

2230
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:32,000
Speaker 2: And in terms of things I will continue to say

2231
01:57:32,040 --> 01:57:33,840
Speaker 2: for the modern era, don't make bombs.

2232
01:57:34,640 --> 01:57:35,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't make bombs.

2233
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:43,720
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

2234
01:57:43,800 --> 01:57:47,240
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. More podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit

2235
01:57:47,320 --> 01:57:50,440
Speaker 1: our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on

2236
01:57:50,600 --> 01:57:53,200
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, app a podcasts, or wherever

2237
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:54,520
Speaker 3: You get your podcasts.