WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 46 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.320 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.440 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.960 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.119 there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:28.000 can make your own decisions. Welcome Today can happen here 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.360 a podcast about fighting your bosses? Uh, this is this 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.600 is your house. Christopher Wong and with me today to 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:38.560 talk about fighting bosses and bosses doing incredibly illegal stuff, 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.360 bosses doing incredibly shady stuff and why you should fight 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.760 them more is Tori Tamblini, who was a partner organizer 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:50.080 from Pittsburgh Starbucks Workers United and was fired from Starbucks 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:55.400 like very illegally, under very sketchy circumstances. Tory, Welcome to 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.760 the show. Thanks so much. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.320 I really really happy to have you here. Um. Okay, 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.280 So I I guess I guess we should start with 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.600 the whole you were denied, you were you were, you 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:10.960 were denied your leagual of rights and then fired presumably 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:16.319 for union organizing thing. Yes, absolutely so starting from the beginning, 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.360 and there was like I was so a month ago 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.280 my store manager sat me down, and I like, he 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.679 asked me to come downstairs for a conversation. So I 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.600 brought a witness with me and we went downstairs, and 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.440 I found out that I was being investigated because there 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:36.839 was one day that I had written down my weekday 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.399 start time instead of my weekend to start time. They 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:41.840 just recently changed things at my store so that we 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:46.000 opened at we start opening shifts at five thirty on 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.600 the weekends and five on the weekdays. And this is 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.520 a recent change up. I had been there for three years, 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.040 so I out of habit one day had written five 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.559 in the book instead of five thirty. Um, a couple 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.320 of months later, it seems like everything has blown over. 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.160 They accept of the fact that it was just an 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.520 innocent mistake. I really wasn't trying to steal thirty minutes 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.200 of time, which comes out to like what six dollars 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.760 after that, Like, yeah, I was really desperate for that 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.640 six dollars. So I figured they just they knew it 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.000 was an innocent mistake, and it wasn't going to be 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.160 a further issue until I saw two managers in my store. 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.560 One of them was my store manager, the other one 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.519 was Her name is Brittany. And what Starbucks has done 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.840 recently is that they've created this new position in the company. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.600 From my understanding, it's called support manager, and they're basically 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.520 like an assistant district manager, and they go around two 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.880 stores where there's any sort of union activity and they 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.720 try to talk about strategies to squash it. So it's like, basically, 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.600 the store manager that did the most harsh union busting 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.000 at their own store gets promoted to this position. So 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.680 in my district, the person's name is Brittany, and I 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.960 saw her in my store, which is always a bad sign. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.400 And um, at one point they asked me to have 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:00.200 a seat for a conversation. So I sit down own, 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.160 and well, before I sit down, I say, is this 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.280 a disciplinary conversation? And the manager said the one manager 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.440 said to me, yes, this is solely a disciplinary conversation. 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:11.959 And I said, I would like to invoke my wine 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.440 button rights. I'm going to go out to the floor 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.800 and bring somebody back as a witness. And they said, 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.160 you can't do that today. And basically what they did 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.080 is they like held up a piece of paper like 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:21.680 with a wall of text on it, like this far 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.240 from my face, and they're like, it says right here 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:24.680 that we can't we don't have to do that for you. 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:29.040 And I was like, that's really illegal and I'm not 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.880 comfortable having this conversation right now at all. And they said, well, 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.160 we're going to hand this to you anyway, and handed 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:41.880 me a notice of termination. Um. Yeah, So I walked 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.320 out and walked back to the front of house and 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.920 I said a little bit loudly, definitely not like shouting, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.600 but kind of loudly. I said, I just got fired, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:55.360 And is it okay if I swear to quote my friend? Okay? Cool. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.120 So my best friend Kim was working at the time, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.120 and she loudly said, right in front of our new 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.920 store manager, what the fuck? And I just kept walking 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:05.440 because I was so upset and I didn't want the 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.560 managers to see me cry. So I walked to the 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.560 front of house or walk outside, and Kim follows me 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.600 and she was like, we're going to fix this. I'm 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:15.640 gonna go ask relieve early and I'll drive you home 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.000 and we'll talk about this Kim goes back inside, looks 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.920 at my assistant manager and says, I'm a question permission 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.920 to leave early. And the assistant manager literally couldn't even 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.000 look her in the eye and told her Kim go 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:28.960 have a seat in the back, and they fired Kim 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:37.839 as well. Jesus. Yeah, yeah, And I think when everything 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.200 about the story I think is worth talking about is 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.760 that like when when it comes to union busting, it 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.240 literally does not matter how good of an employee you are, 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.360 unblessed like you not being there will literally cause everything 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.680 to collapse. But yeah, I don't talk about like you 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:53.400 were really good at this, and they were still just 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.840 like no, fuck you. Yeah. So I was voted by 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.840 everybody at my store. I was voted Partner of the 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:05.920 Order in spring of I was also promoted a shift 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:10.200 supervisor within that same week, and later that year, I 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.800 participated in a Barista competition for my store and I 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.880 won Barista Champion for my store level, and I also 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.560 tied at the district level for Barista Champion for the district. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.400 So um. And then in addition to that, I had 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.279 dealt with a situation where somebody like leaning against the 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.919 front of my store had overdosed on heroin and I 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.400 gave him an arcam and basically saved the guy's life, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.039 and then like a month or two later they fired me. 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:43.040 So yeah, which, like I'm trying to think of if 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.480 like any other way you can possibly go like above 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.040 and beyond what anyone could reasonably require you, that is 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:54.400 more than I saved a dude's life. It's like, okay, 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.480 like you're welcome, guys. Someone would have died inside your 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:03.560 store if I wasn't there, but okay, by I guess. Yeah. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.320 I wanted to talk a little bit about about that, 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.080 specifically in about sort of the conditions at this store, 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.040 because one of the things that seems really clear from 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:14.839 from listening to you talk about it and from reading 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.960 stuff about it is that it's not just I mean, 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.880 even if you were just like you know, doing kind 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.279 of regular issue service like service workers stuff, this would 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.400 be unaccessable. But it's also like there's there's this way 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.120 in which you and your co workers have sort of 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.720 been turned into social workers and are being sort of 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:38.120 are being forced to like deal with just all of 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:39.960 the people who sort of capitalism to say of just 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.760 like spat out. Yeah, and sort of like fill in 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.839 the gaps of just the collapse of American social services. 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.480 And yeah, I wanted, Yeah, I wondered if you could 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.240 talk a little bit about the stuff that you've been 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.000 having to do and what that's like. Yeah. Absolutely, So. 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.120 Something I've noticed in the market square is that it 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.240 feels like there were some sort of resources for the 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.800 unhoused community that existed before the pandemic. That's straight up 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.840 just don't exist anymore. So a lot of that that 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.880 work to be done, like falls on the Starbucks employees. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.040 Most of us are completely unqualified for that, Like I 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.240 have a degree in psychology, but sometimes that's just not 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.960 really enough. Most of us are film students at Point Park, 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.680 so none of us are all equipped to deal with 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.560 any situations where somebody is under the influence of something 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.520 and maybe becoming aggressive, or somebody is having a mental 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.800 health crisis, or there are people that are sleeping in 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.080 the cafe and we're asked to pick them out if 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.360 they're sleeping. But that feels really really bad because there's 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.400 not a ton of other resources, especially during the day. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.080 I know, the shelters closed, so when it's like winter 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.920 or it's like ninety degrees outside and someone is just 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.360 trying to get like a tiny little bit of sleep, 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.480 it feels really bad to kick them out. Um. So 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:56.880 we dealt with a lot of situations that we are 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.440 just completely unequipped to handle. And Starbucks was send us 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.440 de escalation training, but most of the de escalation training 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.000 revolved around if a customer isn't happy with their drink 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.920 and they're shouting at you, So it doesn't even begin 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.720 to cover like any of the stuff that we deal 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.000 with at Market Square. We had like we've we've seen 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.440 a lot of customers having mental health crisis in the cafe, 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:19.920 Like what do you do? Like I don't want to 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.840 call the police. That's definitely not going to help. UM. 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.560 In the situation where I had to narcan somebody, the 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.360 we had called for an ambulance and twenty minutes later 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.559 the ambulance still wasn't there, And they were even managers 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.680 at the surrounding businesses calling and calling and calling trying 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.000 to get an ambulance to Market Square and it ended 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:42.360 up like being me that had to give them a narcan. Um. Overall, 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.320 like something that we are pushing for with Union, the 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.240 main thing that we were pushing for was better training like, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.600 we want Narcan to keep in the stores and we 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.439 want all the ships to be trained on how to 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:53.559 use that, and that doesn't have to be through Starbucks. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.800 There are I know of a lot of organizations throughout 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.760 Pittsburg that would be happy to train our staff on that. UM, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.080 we need like better resources. I know at one point 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.920 we were falsely promised a social worker that would sit 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.959 in our cafe for at least one day every two weeks. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.319 UM never got that. And yeah, I feel like my 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.840 staff just deserves better, community deserves better, and it shouldn't 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.480 be Starbucks's job. But until we have something better, I 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.680 think that we should be a little bit more equipped 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.840 to handle situations that frankly, we do have to deal 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.200 with at some point, just by the nature of our 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.040 work and our location. I also think something really funny 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.880 to mention here is that we got a new store 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.560 manager at the UM. I want to say at the 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.520 beginning or like mid June, we got this new store manager. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.439 Her name was Sarah, and she has already transferred to 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.720 a different store because she felt so unsafe working up 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.920 Market Square. She got her first Market Square a death 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.160 threat and was like I'm out, So even the store 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.720 manager can't deny that our working positions are bad. So 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.120 the fact that they're still fighting against the union even 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.480 though management is well aware of how terrible our conditions are. 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.560 Just like, yeah, okay, I want to I want to 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.600 take a second and go back to something that you said, 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.000 which is your first market square death threat? How common 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:12.120 is this? Um? I think I received a total of 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.679 four to five and um. Then I received my very 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:17.480 last one the day that my store went on strike, 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:19.000 and I was sitting at the picket line and I 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:20.840 was like, wow, it's just like the little days before. 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:28.280 But yeah, market squares a lotless land. Yeah, And I like, 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:30.120 I don't know, Like I feel like this is like 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.679 every time I do this is like a recurring thing. 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:34.920 Every time I do a labor story, it's like, oh, 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:36.560 this is a labor story. Was like, no, But it's 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.560 also the story of a bunch of like a bunch 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.520 of people whose job this like isn't who just wind 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.760 up having to deal with all of the ship that 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.079 the state doesn't want to do, that corporations don't want 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.119 to do. And it's like the the fact that Starbucks 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.360 employees have to be the like the Starbucks union has 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.240 to be the group in like in this place that 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.000 is trying to get people to get in dark hand 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:05.480 training is nuts, like just just like just any like 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.000 sort of just macro taking a step back level, Like 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.280 what on earth is going on in the society we 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.640 could have been thinking a lot about lately. Like I 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:16.199 think a lot of journalists and reporters have asked me, 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.440 like why do you think that the younger generation is 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.480 the one like leading this? Like why are unions making 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.160 a come back now? And why is this younger generations 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.840 like so ready to lead this. I think it's because 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:31.120 we've spent our entire lives watching politicians on TV like 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:35.200 all these promises and continuing to do absolutely nothing, and 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.480 we're all sick and tired of it. We are all 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.520 ready to take it into our own hands and fix 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:44.079 it in any way that we see that we can. Yeah, yeah, 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:45.240 it makes a lot of sense. I mean, like I 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.320 my you know, my my first ball o case, my 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.679 first political member was the Rock War. But like I 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.760 was like a little baby child, but like like you know, 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.160 like I remember, like the thing I grew up on 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.200 was like yeah I was Obama, it was it was hope, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.319 it was changed and then it was like you look 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.920 at the world now and it's like it's like, oh, 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.560 it's it's even bleaker that it was in two eight, 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.760 which is like, yeah, absolutely crazy. Yeah, I think that 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:11.240 makes a lot of sense. And I think also just 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:20.440 like like the last two years have been so brutal. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.800 And I was wondering, Yeah, I wondering, did you can 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.480 talk about like what affects the UM, what effect the 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.920 pandemic had on Yellows workers, and what effect that had 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:36.760 on union organizing. Yeah, absolutely so. Um. I think that 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.040 it really pulled the mask off the company, which ironically, 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.520 well everyone is putting the mask on coming out Starbucks 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.240 because they always really pretended to be this really awesome 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.880 progressive company, and it really revealed how performative the company 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.640 is because they gave us all these COVID benefits for 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.080 like two three months and then took them right away 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.839 from us, like before, obviously the pandemic isn't even over now, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.680 definitely wasn't over back in I think it was October 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:09.560 they took away like ours exactly, and right around that time, 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:13.240 we were also watching our CEO are now former CEO 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.200 Kevin Johnson get like a forty million dollar raised while 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.080 they had just taken away our hazard pay and there 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.000 are free food benefits even though we were all still struggling. 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:26.240 So then I think that us seeing those benefits being 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.360 taken away and realizing that the company doesn't care about 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.600 us in that sense made us start looking harder at everything, 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.960 Like the company doesn't want to increase our pay, they 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.040 don't want to give us credit card tipping, they don't 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.200 want to make our stores safer, um and every other 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.680 reason that any store could see to unionize. Like it 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:46.560 really highlighted all of those reasons and all the ways 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.480 the company doesn't care about us as much as they should, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:50.920 and how they really do just see us as a number. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.160 So I think that's what really really pushed us all 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.520 towards unionizing. It's like, if the company doesn't care about 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.400 us and the people in our stores, then we're going 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.800 to rely on each other to care about us, and 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.559 UM push reunions so that we can take matters into 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.320 urrow and hands. Yea and yeah, And I think there's 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.079 there's a lot of the stuff that you've been talking 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.000 about that highlights how important that is, which is that 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.360 like you know, you have this combination of management, either 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.240 like do the management immediately above you understanding what's happening 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:20.880 and being like we'll just throw you guys at it 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.720 will just literally bail and run away from how bad 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.920 it is. And then you have the layer management like 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.200 above you, which is it's a bunch of bureaucrats who 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.800 like couldn't find their ask if you drew the map 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.400 and you know, or like oh hey, here here's your 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.040 d escalation training. It's about person mad about drink and 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.640 it's like I am getting multiple death threats. It's like 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.280 it's I don't know. We literally had a like someone 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.280 from I think you're either regional management or maybe a 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.840 level higher than that, like area management. Humandour store the 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.040 other day, like as a customer and there was something 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.080 going on. I'm not sure if it was like somebody 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.560 shouting in the cafe or like two customers were fighting, 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.440 but this like upper level manager who should know about 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.560 our store said one of my briefs, does um so 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.600 is this like a high incident store? And we were like, 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:14.680 I don't know, isn't it your job? Like really like wow, yikes, yeah, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.640 that's something that like you know, it's not like I learned, 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:22.000 Like it's something like you learned intellectually and then you 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.960 just see like and then yeah, so it's only you 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.800 learned intellectually, and then you just sort of viscerally begin 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.560 to understand. When you know you're doing work and you're 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.560 watching what your managers do, it is it's that like, yeah, 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.120 like the people who actually knows how the production process 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:38.840 works and how the stuff actually goes and what's happening 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.160 on the shop floor, like are the people are the 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.760 workers there? And it's like everyone above them is just 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.320 doing some other ship. They're just making everyone's lives worse, 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.720 and it's just literally curating. It starts that nobody the 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:52.840 reason we need a union. And I tell people this 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.400 all the time whenever I'm going into new stores, nobody 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.640 knows your store better than youbody knows, like the inner 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.680 workings of it, how busy you are with the needs 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.640 of the store, are better than the people that are 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.920 there forty hours a week. And so another thing we 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.840 talked about a lot in like our our citywide meetings 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.160 is like what do the managers even do on it? 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.640 Like what is their job? What are they working on? 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.320 Like what manager do all day in her bushy little 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.000 corporate off I guess you're just union busting now, even 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:29.080 that they're delicating another manager below them, So yeah, apparently. Yeah, 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.440 did you ever see the fake tweets, the fake Workers 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:38.200 United tweets that Starbucks published? No ill to email you 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.600 a copy of them, but they literally made this hand 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.720 out with a list of fake tweets from Workers United 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.520 and like the company's responses to them. But if you 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.320 look up the company's Twitter account, um, it just doesn't exist. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.680 And the tweets from Workers United that they printed out 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.800 all these hand outs also don't exist. And I think 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.560 maybe three copies of that got handed out to my 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.119 store where we all made so much fun of my boss, 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:09.040 Like so, um, I guess that's my boss's job. I 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.800 will I can show these towdeos. I keep them on hand. 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.840 But this is this is like it's the biggest energy 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.000 of like, oh, I thought of the perfect arguments seven 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.440 hours later, so they didn't even the argument isn't even real, 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:28.000 like they're they're just making up a guy to argue with. Yeah, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.239 and he didn't even try that hard because these were 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.080 handed to me back in April. It says that these 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.520 all of these tweets were posted on June one, so 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.520 the day that they claimed that this was tweeted hadn't 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.000 even happen. Whenever I received their rand out, I mean, hey, 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.000 if you if y'all have access to a time machine, 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.200 I I have some work I need to do. Yeah. Yeah, 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.600 they say things like, in collective bargaining, you start with 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.680 everything you have and negotiate for more from there from 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.320 Starbucks workers united right there, and then the company's responsive 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.160 I know literally as um and then though we are 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.280 one Starbucks account said in collective bargaining, everything is up 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.240 for negotiations if you have more, the same, or less. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.680 And once you negotiate a contract, you locked in, which 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.520 which is also funny because it's like like, okay, you 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.480 are looking at that like you think that that is 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.439 actually like a thing that makes you look good and 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.199 not like a super villain. It's like, no, no, no, 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.240 if you try to negotiate with us, we will make 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:29.000 everything worse for you. It's like really because it makes 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.280 it looks good. You know, they try so hard union 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.840 busts and they just kind of stuck at it. Yeah, 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.840 it's been it's been comical to watch. It's very funny. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:44.399 Which is really funny because like I remember, like I 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.440 didn't know the super well, but like I remember I 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.000 knew some people who were doing starbic union organizing like 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.280 way about like like two thousand, like six or something, 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.600 and they were like, you know, and it was like 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:58.560 they were kind of better at it, like they were 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.760 willing to just like throw resources at it in a 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.639 way that like they don't seem to be able to know. 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.159 I think maybe just because like there there's so many organizations, 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.720 so many organizing efforts happen happening at once, that it's 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.080 harder to sort of just like throw all of their 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.480 stuff at one store. But yeah, it's just it's like 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.240 incredibly funny watching them just sort of like flail and 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:19.679 like you know what I mean. I guess like like 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.000 all all corporations that you need bust eventually resort to 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.400 break the law because you know the law, and yeah, 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:32.560 it's designs for rich people. My district manager um came 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:37.280 into my store screwdriver in hand to personally make repairs 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:40.000 at my store. It would the funniest thing I have 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.639 ever seen. It's probably my favorite union busting story. But 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.600 she was like, yeah, I'm here to cover up the 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.359 electrical outlets in your bathroom and we're like cool, why 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:51.879 and she was like, so that the homeless people can't 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.840 like plug in their electric shavers and shaven there. We 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.159 were like, wow, we've seen we've seen people do a 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.119 lot of weird things in the bathroom, and that's like 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.159 not even one of them. You are so out of touch. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:07.199 Oh my gosh, it's been hilarious to watch, Like, wow, 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:12.400 that was really some efforts, but really, you know, absolutely 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.520 not immediately now, there's nothing I wanted to talk about 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.879 that Starbucks is you talked a bit about earlier about 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.159 Starbucks sort of like having this image as like like 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:27.720 progressive organization and okay, like one of the things they've 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.000 been big on sort of recently is like portraying themselves 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.080 as just like pro l G, B t q I, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:37.960 A plus like thing. And I think, like, okay, so 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.280 there's something that like traditional media has finally discovered because 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.719 they haven't covered labor organizing in forty years and they 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.040 suddenly started doing it again, and they were like, oh 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.199 my god, all of the union organizers are queer. And 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.359 it was like anyone who's ever organized a union or 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:53.200 anyone who knows anyone who's ever been in the Union 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.040 could have told you this like thirty years incredible stuff 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.320 is like, wow, congratulations you've discovered this. But yeah, I 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:04.480 wanted to ask about of I don't know that this 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.280 kind of bind that like I feel like we're people 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.640 doing organizing are in right now, which is that Like Okay, 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.639 so on the one hand, you have like in you know, 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.480 in the last sort of year or so, this like 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:21.679 incredible increase in rampant homophobia, but then simultaneously, like so 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:23.439 you know, you have to fight that fight, and then 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.280 simultaneously you have these corporations who are trying to you know, 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:28.720 like yeah, they're like nominally on our side, and that 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:30.679 they're not well I mean they are, they are, they 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.480 are funding the rampant homophobus, but like publicly they don't 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.320 you know publicly their supportive, but also you know that 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.359 like their supporter because they're trying to sell our identity 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.320 as a brand. And then you know when queer people 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.880 are like, hey, can we like have stuff that lets 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:44.800 us live there? Like no, And I was wondering how 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:48.880 you've been sort of navigating that. Yeah, so that's been 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.159 really tough because um, a lot of our queer partners 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:55.280 in Pittsburgh get get their health insurance through Starbucks, get 0:21:56.000 --> 0:22:00.439 care through Starbucks. And the biggest union busting tactics is 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.760 our cuts. And if you cut someone's hours, then they're 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:08.120 not eligible for healthcare. So they're really just like dangling 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:10.320 the carrot on the stick in front of our faces, like, oh, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:12.919 if you unionize, then we're going to cut your hours 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:14.920 and then you can't get your gender affirming health care. 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:19.040 So that's like, that's really really sucked. Um. In addition 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:23.480 to that, UM, there have been now four people about 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.040 to be five. Um, we think one of one person 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:29.440 is going to be fired one of these back from vacations. 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.200 But out of all of us that are fired or 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:35.040 about to be fired, we are all queer people. So UM, 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.560 I think that really shows how much store books your partners. 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:43.440 And since I've started organizing, in addition to like homophobia 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.600 and like discrimination against the rare community, I've also heard 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:53.080 just rampant stories about microaggressions and racism. UM. I've actually 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:56.919 met a UM a partner that was fired from a 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.960 store in Virginia. I want to say she was I believe, 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:03.040 for my understanding, she was the only black woman that 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:07.119 worked at her store and she was fired for aggressive behavior. 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.440 And when I heard that, I was like bidding me. 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.240 So just like and also that support manager that I 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.000 was talking about, I've heard rumors that like she was 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.000 transferred from one store to another because she was like 0:23:20.200 --> 0:23:22.760 caught being racist at the first store. She instead of 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.520 being fired, she was transferred and now she got she 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:28.679 was promoted to store manager. And then she fired a 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:31.439 trans partner at her store and now she's our support 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:37.359 manager and fired me. So just like it's homophobia. Yeah, yeah, 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:40.480 it's like it's it's the Catholic church for racist homophobes. 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:44.359 Well okay, the Catholic Church for racist homophobes, but corporate 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.480 and well okay, I I I am not going to 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:50.400 make a claim on the air that they're not also 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:55.720 doing this with sexual assault, because I they had like 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:59.359 there's no way that they're not. But yeah, that is 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:04.399 that that that's incredibly bleak. And I would go back 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:06.440 a second to sort of the gender affirm and care 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:12.560 stuff because like, yeah, that stuff, it's like, like, Okay, 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.359 the thing that they are doing is just like we 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:18.280 we are holding the genocide button over you. It's like, yeah, 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:20.080 if if you if you don't comply with us, and 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.320 you don't like accept the like absolute ship and scraps 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:25.200 that we give you, we are going to try to 0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:32.800 kill you. And that is just indescribably horrific. Absolutely. Yeah, Um, 0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:34.680 I know it's something that partners up. There's at least 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:36.920 one partner at my store that's dealing with that right now. 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:40.520 She's twenty five about and she is trans and I 0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:43.840 know that she's on her parents insurance at the moment, 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:47.320 but in less than a year she'll have the insurance elsewhere, 0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:50.600 most likely through Starbucks. And it's something that really got 0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.720 her into organizing. I know that for sure. Um. Yeah, 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:56.520 it's it's been a really scary moment for her, Definitely 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:01.119 something she's worried about. Yeah. Yeah, just the risk of 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.640 being fired, the risk of having your hours cut and 0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:08.200 stop being eligible for benefits. It's awful, and like she 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:10.120 doesn't feel like she can get a job like anywhere 0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:12.320 else just because Starbucks is one of the like Starbucks 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:15.360 offers like decent health insurance. So it's like I'm kind 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:17.639 of trapped here until I can get out, until I 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:21.359 can get another job with insurance benefits. Yeah, and you 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:26.480 know that's incredibly it's incredibly hard, especially right now. I mean, yeah, 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:32.520 I don't know, it's I mean, it's not really surprising 0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:35.960 that they're doing this, but it's yeah, it's it's really 0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:39.879 depressing and it sucks. And the fact that they're you know, 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:47.119 like sending sending racist to do homophobias like hm, it's yeah, 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:51.919 it's like dystopian like this happened, and been like is 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:55.840 this real life? Like this is crazy? And um, they 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:59.640 just fired another black clear organizer infits were just yesterday 0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:03.000 and trying to make it look like he resigned, um, 0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:06.480 but really they gave him like a couple like options 0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:09.639 like you need to have at least one weekend day available, 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:13.080 or you need to demote yourself, or you need to 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:16.440 transfer to a different store. And they were like, I 0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:19.320 can't really do any of those options, like none of 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:23.200 those work for me. And then the company said like, oh, yeah, 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:27.359 Jimmy resigned, Like we totally didn't fire them, but they 0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:29.800 just resigned and sorry, you get to peel it because 0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:34.520 you resigned by yeah, it's a real we didn't fire you. 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:40.000 We simply forced you out by making utterly impossible demands. Yep. 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:43.080 It's like it really reminds me of like it's the 0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:44.960 kind of stuff a country does when they want to 0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:47.040 go to war, where it's like, yeah, we're gonna we're 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:48.520 gonna give you a bunch of demands that it is 0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:50.639 literally physically impossible for you to comply with, and that 0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:55.200 because you don't comply with him, we're getting invade. M hmm, yeah, exactly, exactly, 0:26:55.560 --> 0:27:01.240 Like oh um, although I did find out some good 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:04.560 news today. So there's this one bar where most of 0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:08.320 the union organizers hang out all the time, and they 0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:10.720 message just on Twitter today and they want to throw 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:15.280 a queer dance party and fundraiser for like our solid 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:19.600 strike fund. It was like literally the most us thing 0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:22.720 I can mostly think of, like a queer dance party 0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:26.879 fundraiser at our favorite bar. Like the bathroom attendant from 0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:28.720 the bar like showed up to our strike at my 0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:32.040 store and friends of the bartender there. It was like 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:36.399 the best Twitter DM ever. It was like, that's so funny. 0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:38.400 I'm literally going there with the other person that got 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:44.199 fired from my store like tonight. So we're very excited 0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:46.720 for that. Yeah, And I guess that means that something 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:48.880 else I wanted to talk about, which is um, Yeah, 0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:50.919 do you want to talk a little bit about like 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:54.360 what happened after you got fired and the support you've 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:57.359 been getting in the like the backing from other unions 0:27:57.359 --> 0:28:01.560 that you've been getting. Totally. Yeah. So my store is 0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:05.159 actually just like a block away from the United steel 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:08.840 Workers head twitters, which is incredible because anytime we have 0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:11.480 any sort of direct action, we get like forty steel 0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:16.960 workers store. Yeah. The day after I was fired, I 0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:19.600 I have this very funny picture that's on my Twitter 0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:22.760 um of me just standing like with like forty steel 0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:24.680 workers sitting behind me and the found like the two 0:28:24.760 --> 0:28:28.880 biggest dudes like setting on each side of me where 0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:32.439 I started a safer and in the protest. This is 0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:35.880 my new favorite picture of myself. So that was day one. 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:37.679 We had a rally. We had really good turn out 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:40.440 with all the steel workers and a bunch of other 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:44.120 community allies are Symphony UM. Symphony musicians have a have 0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:47.840 a labor union to to the library workers UM. They 0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:49.960 all came out for the first day of the rally 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:53.880 at Market Square and my city wide organizing committee was 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:57.320 actually able to pull together a total of four strikes. 0:28:58.120 --> 0:29:00.680 What happened within the course of two days. The planning 0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:08.240 happened in like basically under twenty four hours. So yeah, 0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:11.800 I got fired. Wednesday. Thursday was the rally at my 0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:15.440 store with all the steel workers. Friday, the East Carson 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:17.720 Store in the South Side of Pittsburgh went on strike. 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:20.960 The East Side store in the Bloomfield store all went 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:24.000 on strike for the full day. Um. The south Side 0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:30.120 store continued the strike into Saturday, and then um, Sunday, 0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:34.720 my store went on strike finally. So um it was incredible. 0:29:34.840 --> 0:29:37.760 We had We have a labor choir in Pittsburgh which 0:29:37.800 --> 0:29:40.360 is in trouble. It's just like a dude with a guitar. 0:29:40.680 --> 0:29:44.360 He's my favorite person ever. Um. So we had the 0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:48.720 labor choir out at all of our events. And um 0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:52.800 we had, like I said, the library workers, the steel workers, 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:56.600 the Symphony Union. Um, we have UE. We have d 0:29:56.760 --> 0:29:59.400 s A, which is Democratic Socialists of America. We have 0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:02.440 the part you for Socialism and Liberation or really strong 0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:05.400 allies to us. And we had like a lot of 0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:07.960 the regular my my favorite customers showed up at my 0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:11.600 store of course, which made try. One of my customers, 0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:13.720 one of my favorite customers who comes in multiple times 0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:16.120 a day, said you shouldn't be standing out here on 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:18.080 the on the sidewalk, you should be back there behind 0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:20.080 the counter making coffee. And I was like, I know, 0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:23.840 thank you. Um. We had a couple of our regulars 0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:28.200 changed their mobile order name to Tori and Kim, so 0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:30.680 that every time he orders a drink to my store, 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:34.320 they have to call out the name Tory and Kim. 0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:37.440 That's great, And we set up a go fund me 0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:40.880 and we received way more donations than we thought that 0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:44.200 we would get. So um for all the workers at 0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:45.920 my store that went on strike, in addition to the 0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:49.920 seventy pay that we received from the union for the day, UM, 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:52.200 we were able to pledge twenty dollars to each of 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:55.000 them to try to make their paychecks pole and cover 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:58.080 some of their last tips. That was incredible and really 0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:01.600 just a demonstration of how much support we have in 0:31:01.640 --> 0:31:04.840 our area. You know, they say Pittsburgh as a union town. Yeah, 0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:09.120 it really is. It turns out, yeah, and it's really 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:13.560 cool to see. I don't know, I like one of 0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:15.320 one of the things that I keep seeing is this 0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:18.360 sort of like like one of one of the sort 0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:21.120 of right wing tactics that have been like just inundated 0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:24.160 within the last like a couple of years has been 0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:27.520 like trying to separate out like oh, here are these 0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:29.520 people who are workers, but like, oh, they're not workers 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:33.240 because they're like oh, they're like doing cultural stuff for 0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.959 They're like oh, they just like serve drinks and like 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:37.840 you know, you look at actual labor. It's like that's no, 0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:40.239 like none of this, none of this, none of these 0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:43.280 divisions things are real, like people showing from each other. 0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:46.680 It's always get worried that people will be like judgmental 0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.200 about that. Like I'm always kind of like surprised when 0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:51.280 the steel workers show up. I'm like, I know, I'm 0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:53.440 not the steel worker. I don't make steel, I don't 0:31:53.440 --> 0:31:57.800 work at a factory or anything. Just make coffee. But um, 0:31:57.840 --> 0:32:00.240 everyone is so supportive and they are always so willing 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:02.800 to stand in solidarity, which is really cool. But it's 0:32:02.840 --> 0:32:04.920 something I'm always like worried about, Like I know it 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:07.520 doesn't feel like I'm a real worker, but like union, 0:32:07.840 --> 0:32:12.240 I mean, I'm in a podcast union, so like talking 0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:19.600 about yeah, I I have I have like arguably like 0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:21.640 if if if if if you're going to use the 0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:25.680 really silly like like I don't know, sort of like 0:32:25.720 --> 0:32:27.880 cultural analysis of what a worker is like a podcast. 0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:30.120 Union is like the silliest union every and it's great. No, 0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:32.440 it rules. It turns out where workers we go fight 0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:35.080 for other people to other people fight for like the 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:38.600 the when when when we when we were trying to 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:43.960 get union recognition, like the NFL Players Association was like, hey, 0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:50.400 you guys need to recognize this if we were like yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:32:50.680 --> 0:32:52.760 just um, we've been going to a lot of rallies 0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:55.440 for the Planned Parenthood union and yeah, which I didn't 0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:58.640 I didn't actually know that they existed that Yeah, I actually, 0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:01.320 well it wasn't Pittsburgh, but I I was just talking 0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:03.640 actually probably well I don't know what or these are 0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:06.000 gonna err in, but like yeah that I just talked 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:09.840 to people from Oh my gosh. Yeah they were cool. 0:33:10.040 --> 0:33:12.800 I got to the labor choir there again. I was Yeah, 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:17.880 solidarity all around. I love to see it. Oh yeah, 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:21.680 that's that's really cool. M hmm. Yeah, lots of unions 0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:24.120 in Pittsburgh A good time. I met a lot of 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:26.240 really cool people. I feel like all the people I've 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:29.960 met since I've been involved with union stuff have been 0:33:30.000 --> 0:33:33.080 like really cool. For the first time I talked anywhere, 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:36.240 it was at the Pennsylvania a f l C i 0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:41.680 OH convention and um whatever. I was told that when 0:33:41.720 --> 0:33:43.520 of our I talk, my speech was supposed to end 0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:46.000 with brothers and sisters, can I count on your support? 0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:48.320 Because they were passing a resolution for us. But one 0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:50.360 of my briefstas told me it would be funnier if 0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:53.040 I said, can I get a hell yeah? So I 0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:55.200 said some very serious words to this room full of 0:33:55.240 --> 0:33:57.960 serious look at people, and then I said, on behalf 0:33:57.960 --> 0:33:59.960 of all of our partners at the Market Square Starbucks, 0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:03.480 can I get a hell yeah? And they all were 0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:08.480 so happy, and I was like, cool, I found my people. 0:34:10.160 --> 0:34:13.000 That was like the first time I talked anywhere. That 0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:18.080 was funny. That's awesome. Yeah, this is and and and 0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:20.080 another reason to unionize. You get to beat a bunch 0:34:20.080 --> 0:34:22.120 of really cool people and then they show up for 0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:26.680 you and it's just incredible experience. Yeah. On my last 0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:28.960 kid vissing trip, we went out in Games of two 0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:30.680 when when when we reconvened at the end of the 0:34:30.760 --> 0:34:32.200 night for dinner and we were like, oh, we should 0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:34.920 stop at our one store that we visited again, like 0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:36.440 all four of us, and I was like, yeah, we 0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:39.000 should like go in and be like, look, guys, I 0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:46.040 joined the union and I made three whole friends. Yeah. Also, 0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:49.000 just talking at the UM, I was on a panel 0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:52.759 at Women's Labor School, which was really awesome. It was 0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:56.040 at Penn State University, and that was a really really 0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:58.439 cool experience. I met all the all the female union 0:34:58.520 --> 0:35:02.320 leaders are really great. Then overall, it's really cool people 0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:08.080 involved here. Hell yeah, I love unions, good stuff. Absolutely. 0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:11.680 They got a cool pin that says labor women get 0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:13.799 in good trouble and I was like, yeah, that's what 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:18.359 I'm doing. Yeah, absolutely, hell yeah. Yeah. So these days 0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:20.640 I'm just working with UM some other stores in the 0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.600 Greater Pittsburgh area helping get them filed. I won't be 0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:25.839 too specific about this, but we are going to see 0:35:25.920 --> 0:35:28.560 some stores picking up in DC, which is really really exciting. 0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:31.040 We've been doing some canvassing trips out there well. At 0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:34.680 Starbucks Workers United, we call it a clean play because 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:37.319 in Starbucks, what a clean play is is that one 0:35:37.400 --> 0:35:40.520 day a week, UM, all the closing crew is scheduled 0:35:40.520 --> 0:35:41.920 for an extra two hours at the end of their 0:35:41.920 --> 0:35:43.719 shift deep clean the store. And they call that a 0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:48.200 clean play. So we like to take Starbucks playing. So 0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:51.399 we feel like our little canvassing blitzes clean plays. So 0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:53.920 for the DC Clean Play, we've been I've been out 0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:58.120 there twice. Um, we visited a ton of stores. Definitely 0:35:58.160 --> 0:36:00.399 some interests there. Seems like the union bust has been 0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:04.080 really tough, but we have we have one store that's 0:36:03.840 --> 0:36:08.200 and you'll see it in the news soon. Hell yeah, 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.239 I'm very proud. It was like one of that was 0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:12.839 one of my DC leads. Um, they've reached out to 0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:17.319 us on our website for an organizing request and um, 0:36:17.360 --> 0:36:20.799 they've just been like super strong leaders and they've been 0:36:20.840 --> 0:36:24.399 incredible and union investing really hasn't faced them at all 0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:27.080 and they're going to be there. I'm very proud of them. 0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:29.399 A little bit proud of myself, but they they can 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:32.799 have all the credit for that. They they really like 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:35.919 stay strong for the union busting. Do have good stuff. 0:36:35.960 --> 0:36:38.040 It's scary to be the first store in your area too, 0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:41.800 to actually make moves. Like my friend Jake Welsh, he 0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:44.400 was the first store in Pittsburgh. His store was the 0:36:44.440 --> 0:36:47.320 first in Pittsburgh. And I know that's like really scary, 0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:51.319 and I'm glad that it's happening because it feels like 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:54.160 once the one store goes, then the dominoes starting to fall. 0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:56.719 So once we see that one store in DC file 0:36:56.840 --> 0:36:58.759 for the union election, we're going to see a lot 0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:03.399 more go down there. Um, are you able to talk 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:06.160 at all about what the search of organizing process has 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:08.000 been like? And you know, if you can't talk about 0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:09.560 like what it's been like as an organizer, just like 0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:11.759 what it was like at your store and what it's 0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:16.200 been like going to other stores, totally. So at my store, 0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:21.400 we started we had heard a little bit about what 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:24.279 Buffalo was doing, and we started very casually talking about 0:37:24.320 --> 0:37:26.879 it at my store, like, yeah, if any store needs 0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:29.319 the union, it is the store. Like we are an 0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:33.120 absolute shit show here, so we could definitely usunize. That 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:36.080 would be awesome. UM. Really had no idea how to 0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:39.400 get started though, until a couple of weeks later. I 0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.320 get a panicked phone call from one of my baristas 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:44.879 and she was like, Tori, this weird guy came into 0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:46.520 the store when I was on a register today and 0:37:46.520 --> 0:37:49.239 he started asking me questions about unions, and I know 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:51.000 he wasn't a barista, and I think he was a 0:37:51.040 --> 0:37:54.240 corporate spy. And we were like, oh okay, so we googled, 0:37:54.239 --> 0:37:57.279 the guy started to like like get some information. We 0:37:57.320 --> 0:38:00.399 found like his LinkedIn or his coworkers LinkedIn account, and 0:38:00.440 --> 0:38:03.560 we were like, okay, they seemed trustworthy, We're still not sure, 0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:07.160 so we emailed the guy from a Burner email account 0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:09.400 the fake name. I think the fake name was like 0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:12.160 Darren or something. You know, though, like our names are 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:16.120 like Tor and Kelly and Kayla. So we emailed them 0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:18.840 from a fake name and a Burner account and eventually 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:22.520 got in contact with Daisy Pickens, who is now our 0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:25.520 national campaign director, but at the time she was working 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.839 mainly in Pittsburgh and from there she she taught us 0:38:28.840 --> 0:38:32.480 everything we know about organizing. We built an organizing committee 0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.640 consisting of me, Kelly, and Kayla because like the three 0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:38.760 of us were pretty good friends, and we got cards signed. 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:40.759 We were able to get one of people want my 0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:47.640 store to sign a card, and we filed unanimously. Yeah. So, um. 0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:49.839 Something that stores do right before they file is they 0:38:49.880 --> 0:38:53.040 write a dear Howard letter. And you might have seen 0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:54.879 these on Twitter. If you haven't, you didn't find them 0:38:54.880 --> 0:38:58.480 on the Starbucks Workers United like national official Twitter. They 0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:01.480 always post those there. So we wrote our dear Howard 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:04.200 we turned in our cards to the n l RV office, 0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:06.920 and right after I finished turning in the cards to 0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:08.880 then l RB, I walked right back to my store 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:11.319 and I had printed out a physical copy of our 0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:14.879 Dear Howard, and I handed it to my store manager, Joe. 0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:17.279 I wanted you to hear it from me, and he 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:21.240 was like okay. UM. From there, the union busting started. 0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:25.759 We had captive audience meetings, which I believe, to my understanding, 0:39:25.800 --> 0:39:27.799 the company has stopped doing because they were kind of 0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:30.400 declared illegal. Or maybe it was just that the information 0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:33.720 they were sharing was so misleading, but it was declared illegal. 0:39:34.320 --> 0:39:38.360 But they handed us like a bunch of really really 0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:43.720 misleading handouts saying things like withdrawn petitions. If Workers United 0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:46.320 thinks that you're going to lose lose your union election, 0:39:46.640 --> 0:39:50.640 they will withdraw your petition and abandon you, which is crazy. 0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:55.600 Another thing was that like if if the union thinks 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:57.160 that you're going to vote no, they're going to try 0:39:57.200 --> 0:39:59.560 to talk you out of voting. But Starbucks is the 0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:01.480 one that we really cares about your voice, and we 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:04.360 wanted to make sure everyone has a voice. We're like, literally, 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:07.759 you can look objectively at this, you can see what 0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:09.840 Starbucks has done to try to prevent you from voting, 0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:13.400 like they were pushing for in person stores or in 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:17.520 person elections in stores where most of the partners don't 0:40:17.520 --> 0:40:21.839 have cars, are um busy with other things, have second jobs, 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:26.320 and just couldn't feasibly vote in person. UM. They challenge 0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:29.080 ballots left and right, they think. I think they challenged 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:32.720 a little of nine ballots at my store, including Kelly's ballot, 0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:36.719 even though Kelly was literally like working at the time 0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:38.800 of our ballot count She was literally behind the counter 0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:41.480 and like you can see her like in the zoom 0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:43.120 call when people as she came out to watch the 0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:45.640 ballot counts on her break, they tried to challenge her ballot, 0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:48.160 claiming that she didn't work there. So there's just like 0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:50.160 hard evidence that the company is the one that doesn't 0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:53.560 want people to vote. So we got through the union busting. 0:40:54.160 --> 0:40:56.120 It was it was tough, it was an uphill battle, 0:40:56.640 --> 0:41:03.880 and eventually we won our election eight to one on May. 0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:08.440 So after that, I became an intern with Workers United 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:11.759 UM for the Summer Solidarity internship program, and that's when 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:14.640 I started really getting into helping other stores file. So 0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:18.600 there was one out in out in the Pittsburgh suburbs, 0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:21.840 like the Greater Pittsburgh area. Peters Township was the first store, 0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:25.920 like my first really solid lead that I ever took on. UM, 0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:28.319 they filed, I helped them write their Dear Howard letter. 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:31.959 We were interviewed by the Washington Post. Super cool. So 0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:35.320 they have their ballot count on August eighteen. Very excited 0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:37.399 for them. I have my stores in DC that I'm 0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:40.600 working with, and a lot of other stores throughout Pittsburgh 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:43.800 and UM going on a lot of Queen Play trips, 0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:45.920 whether it's a big one to Washington, d C. Or 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:49.000 smaller local one. But we'll go out in teams of two, 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:51.120 visit as many stores as we can possibly get to 0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:53.840 in one day, and we wear our Star Wars Workers 0:41:53.920 --> 0:41:57.240 United shirts, so immediately people know why we're there. Basically, 0:41:57.280 --> 0:41:58.560 just go up as if we're going to order a 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:01.200 drink and be like, hey, so we heard about what 0:42:01.239 --> 0:42:04.160 we're doing in downtown Pittsburgh. We're like the stores in 0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:06.399 Buffalo that unionized you, so like, what do you guys 0:42:06.400 --> 0:42:09.120 think of that? And typically our approach is to find 0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:13.719 the gayest looking person. Yeah, we gotta trying to find 0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:17.520 like the young like maybe like twentysomething person with like 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:21.440 dyet hair and a septom piercing. It's always the septom piercings. 0:42:21.520 --> 0:42:24.120 Let me tell you. They're always the leader, the ring 0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:26.839 leaders at their store. I don't know why, but it's 0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:28.759 been funny. So yeah, try to find the gayest person 0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:31.160 and be like, hey, so what do you think about unions? 0:42:31.280 --> 0:42:35.480 And that's how we brought a new store. Yeah, and 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:37.560 we've been pretty successful with it. A lot of people 0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:41.640 either don't know what a union is or they really 0:42:41.680 --> 0:42:45.760 like their boss, and that seems to be the company's 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:49.120 best union tactic union busting tactic because by having good bosses, 0:42:49.160 --> 0:42:53.160 because we always say that sometimes the best organizer is 0:42:53.200 --> 0:42:55.160 the boss. So sometimes the stores where they're like, we 0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:56.879 love our boss, our boss takes such a good care 0:42:56.920 --> 0:42:59.880 of us, I'm like, darn it. Um, Like good for 0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:02.680 you guys, but you should unize anyway. Yeah. I would 0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:04.440 also yeah, like like I would say, it's like I 0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:06.719 really liked my boss and I am also still on 0:43:06.800 --> 0:43:10.360 the union because yeah, trying to explain to them too. 0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:13.400 Sometimes those stores where they say that they're hard to 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:15.640 talk into it, but I always tell them what happened 0:43:15.640 --> 0:43:18.040 at my store, and what happens that we had the 0:43:18.080 --> 0:43:21.000 same store manager for I believe like five years. He 0:43:21.120 --> 0:43:24.319 was great, We loved him, he was cool, and when 0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:26.840 we unionized, it wasn't about him. It was about the 0:43:26.880 --> 0:43:29.640 working conditions at our store and that upper management had 0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:32.160 been giving us false promises, and the things that needed 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:33.959 to be changed at our store were kind of out 0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:36.120 of my store manager's hands, like that was like above 0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:38.239 his vagode, so he couldn't do much about it. And 0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:40.160 we made it clear, like Joe, it's not about you. 0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:42.560 You're great, we love you. Um gotta do it, do 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:46.120 you though, Sorry, buddy. Um. Then we got even though 0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:48.600 we loved Joe, we got a new store manager in 0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:52.720 mid June, and she was a little bit less awesome. 0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:55.640 And you know, you never know when things that your 0:43:55.640 --> 0:43:57.560 store can change. And even if you love the store 0:43:57.600 --> 0:44:00.080 manager you have now, they could They could leave tomorrow. 0:44:00.480 --> 0:44:03.839 So you gotta like, the only thing that's guaranteed, your 0:44:03.840 --> 0:44:06.040 store manager isn't guaranteed to be at your store forever. 0:44:06.440 --> 0:44:09.640 What is guaranteed is a contract, and that's something that's 0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:12.200 really important. Sometimes it's hard to get people to see 0:44:12.239 --> 0:44:15.360 the long term of it though, UM, otherwise we're normally 0:44:15.360 --> 0:44:20.799 pretty successful. UM. We uh typically try to get phone 0:44:20.840 --> 0:44:23.120 numbers at every store, reach out to them within the 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:25.360 next two days, and then we'll hold like an intake meeting. 0:44:25.920 --> 0:44:28.160 So whenever we have an intake meeting, we tell them 0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:31.680 make a spreadsheet of every partner at your store, what 0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:33.960 shift they work, what their job is like if they're 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:38.719 strip supervisor or barista, and assign one person on your 0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:41.640 organizing committee to talk to that person. So every person 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:44.160 at your store should have an organizing committee member assigned 0:44:44.200 --> 0:44:46.840 to them. From there, once they have a plan for 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:49.000 who's going to talk to who, we get cards to 0:44:49.040 --> 0:44:50.840 them and they can be either physical cards like my 0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:55.839 store did or digital cards, and then they start getting signatures, 0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:58.520 having little conversations like hey, here's what do you mean 0:44:58.600 --> 0:45:01.439 is here's why we're doing this. If you agree, sign 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:04.719 this card. Once they have sent cards signed, then we 0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:06.640 take it to the on l RV and say hello, 0:45:06.719 --> 0:45:09.680 we would like to do a union please, and then 0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:12.800 hopefully they get a ballot count date. And the company 0:45:12.880 --> 0:45:17.160 always pushes for in personal elections. We always push back. 0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:21.000 We pretty much always win, and um we always want 0:45:21.000 --> 0:45:23.560 mail in ballots because we do, like, really genuinely want 0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:26.840 everybody to be able to vote. Whenever I was organizing 0:45:26.840 --> 0:45:30.600 at my store, I told everyone my best possible outcome, 0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:33.800 best case scenario is that every single person here votes 0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:37.160 and votes. Yes. My second best possible outcome is that 0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:40.200 everyone here votes and some of you vote. Now, like 0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:42.920 I I want everyone to vote. I want every single 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:44.759 person here to vote. I don't want to be like, 0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:48.279 there is one store in my district that did end 0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:50.960 up winning their union election, but out of there I 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:55.120 think fifty to sixty partners, only twelve people voted, and 0:45:55.840 --> 0:45:57.880 although they won, like, that is not the way we 0:45:57.880 --> 0:46:01.160 wanted to get you want everyone to have a day, yeah, 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:03.480 which I think is interesting on sort of two levels. One, 0:46:03.520 --> 0:46:06.799 it's like you can see the exact moment at which 0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:10.040 corporations start carrying about prince are pretending to care about democracy, 0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:13.399 which is like, oh wait, hold on, our workers are 0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:15.959 doing stuff. Oh no, we have to care about Yeah. 0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:18.479 Suddenly we're like this incredible pro democratic force. We don't 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:22.640 want everyone to have to say. It's like, okay, it's funny. 0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:26.600 They actually just came out with This happened after I 0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:29.279 got fired. This happened the past two weeks, but they 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:32.280 came out with I believe it's an app where partners 0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:37.040 can share their feedback and share their experiences. Um. So 0:46:37.440 --> 0:46:39.840 they are trying to be so democratic, like look at 0:46:39.880 --> 0:46:44.680 them just really listening to us. Um. Yeah. They also 0:46:45.360 --> 0:46:48.279 did this really fun thing where even though hours are 0:46:48.320 --> 0:46:51.080 being cut across the company, people are having their hours 0:46:51.160 --> 0:46:55.400 drastically cut because this poor little billion dollar corporation can't 0:46:55.400 --> 0:46:58.600 afford to schedule us any more hours or properly staff 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:02.359 their stores. We were all scheduled an extra hour for 0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:04.600 one of our shifts during the week so that we 0:47:04.600 --> 0:47:07.480 could sit down and watch an hour long speech by 0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:10.440 Howard Shoulder and do a survey about how much we 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:15.960 like our job, which was funny. That Wow, that was 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:18.240 like a kind of a new load for Starbucks. Like, wow, 0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:20.960 there's two people working on the floor right now, one 0:47:21.000 --> 0:47:23.840 person like making drinks and one person on register and 0:47:23.840 --> 0:47:26.439 they're getting slammed out there. It's so glad you guys 0:47:26.440 --> 0:47:28.279 had the had the labor hours to be able to 0:47:28.280 --> 0:47:35.320 schedule me to sit here and watch this Howard speech. Great. Thanks, 0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:37.640 And like I think, like just the scheduling stuff, like 0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:41.319 everyone being consistently understaffed. It's like this is something I 0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:43.759 was talking to the plant Parenthood people about two, which 0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:46.400 is like like there too. It's like you get you 0:47:46.400 --> 0:47:48.520 get these managers who are like, wow, okay, we need 0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:51.439 to cost cutting we're doing, and you know the price 0:47:51.440 --> 0:47:53.120 of cost cutting is we're going to just make all 0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:56.520 of our people work can possibly hard because we refused 0:47:56.520 --> 0:47:59.680 to put enough people in the store. And then you know, 0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:02.080 we're we're not gonna let you work long enough, like 0:48:02.200 --> 0:48:03.799 we're not gonna let you work long enough to actually 0:48:03.840 --> 0:48:07.040 get benefits. And then yeah, it's like the worst combination. Yeah, 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:08.480 but but it's like you know, okay, know like like 0:48:08.520 --> 0:48:11.359 they have the buddy, they can't schedule you. It's like, yeah, 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:12.600 what I mean like like you know, I think like 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:15.680 it ideally, in a society that wasn't just like like 0:48:15.719 --> 0:48:17.560 not even not even like a perfect society, in a 0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:21.640 society that was not like entirely based on cruelty and violence, 0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:22.920 it wouldn't even be able to do this at all. 0:48:22.960 --> 0:48:26.560 Everyone would just have a fixed schedule. Yeah, just like exactly, 0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:29.439 because it's so it sucks so much because it's like 0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:31.719 I barely get to go to work even though I 0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:34.399 asked for a full time I'm scheduled seventeen hours a week, 0:48:34.800 --> 0:48:38.760 but I am there. I'm like so freaking stressed because 0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:41.360 there's just not enough people to make the number of 0:48:41.400 --> 0:48:43.880 drinks that need made and all the customers are super 0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.680 piste off because they've been waiting ten minutes for their drink, 0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:51.160 and like corporate is just watching this happen. I'm sure 0:48:50.920 --> 0:48:53.719 that they have to be getting bad reviews. Like there's 0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:56.320 no way people aren't calling corporate to complain about the 0:48:56.360 --> 0:48:58.520 weight times because there's only two of us working on 0:48:58.560 --> 0:49:01.480 a Sunday morning, and like they're really just shooting themselves 0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:04.440 in the foot, just all around, all around, shooting themselves 0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:06.400 on the foot. Yeah, but I think also like there's 0:49:06.400 --> 0:49:09.279 a part of this which is just like like they 0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:11.680 are insulated from this, like you know, I don't know, 0:49:11.680 --> 0:49:13.640 it's like the managers don't have to deal with this ship. 0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:15.640 And it's like, yeah, they're gonna they're just gonna throw 0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:18.800 all of the angry customers, Like people who are angry 0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:20.680 because of decisions of management do they throwte you? And 0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:23.959 it's like this is this is fucking bullshit, Like yeah, 0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:26.120 it's like here's a cupe on for a free drink. 0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:32.080 Go Bull, the brist does again. Yeah. Yeah, it's like Michelle, 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:34.000 my district manager doesn't have to come in and deal 0:49:34.040 --> 0:49:36.759 with like forty angry customers staring at her while she 0:49:36.800 --> 0:49:42.520 tries to frantically make drinks. Like yeah, it's like, I 0:49:42.560 --> 0:49:47.200 don't know, Like there is definitely a part of me 0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:50.319 that is, like, I mean, okay, like I know, on 0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:52.160 the one hand, this isn't true because there have been 0:49:52.200 --> 0:49:54.400 a lot of terrible corporate people. There's been a lot 0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:56.759 of like I don't know, like terrible world leaders who 0:49:56.760 --> 0:50:02.719 actually had to work real jobs. But like, okay, a like, 0:50:02.719 --> 0:50:05.200 like some part of my soul still holds onto the 0:50:05.200 --> 0:50:07.239 belief that if like these people actually had to work 0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:11.640 in these conditions like consistently, that it wouldn't be like 0:50:11.719 --> 0:50:15.160 this because they wouldn't be completely insulated from just the 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:17.719 absolute horror they're inflicting an iPhone And it's yeah, you 0:50:17.760 --> 0:50:20.680 can see whenever my store manager is scheduled to be 0:50:20.800 --> 0:50:23.239 on the floor, like scheduled for a coverage shift, which 0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:24.959 means that they're required to be out on the floor 0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:28.920 making drinks and doing register, they were always very fully staffed. 0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:33.000 Whenever whenever the scheduled for coverage, there's always at least 0:50:33.040 --> 0:50:35.680 five other people on the floor. But whenever it's like 0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:39.120 me on a Sunday morning opening the store and there's 0:50:39.120 --> 0:50:42.360 like a Steelers game and a convention in town and everyone, 0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:44.600 like the city is packed and all the hotels around 0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:47.799 around my store are packed. Everyone's gonna want coffee. There's 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:51.040 like three of us, which is just like it's really 0:50:51.080 --> 0:50:54.920 frustrating to sort of like on a political level, it's 0:50:54.960 --> 0:50:57.960 like every job that I've ever worked, It's like if 0:50:57.960 --> 0:50:59.560 it was literally just us running this and there was 0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:02.120 no manage, everything would work on hunter Ties better. Yeah, 0:51:02.120 --> 0:51:07.640 And it's like yeah, yeah, it's like okay, Like at 0:51:07.640 --> 0:51:11.319 a certain point you have to just be like get 0:51:11.400 --> 0:51:13.880 rid of these people, like why why why are we 0:51:13.960 --> 0:51:18.680 doing this? Our new new store manager since our recent 0:51:18.880 --> 0:51:21.640 new one quit because working visions are so bad. Our 0:51:21.719 --> 0:51:24.480 new new one is an outside hire who doesn't know 0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:27.440 how to ring in drinks, don't know how to make drinks, 0:51:27.760 --> 0:51:30.440 doesn't know anything, and they just put him in my 0:51:30.480 --> 0:51:33.160 store as a store manager. And my roommate is also 0:51:33.200 --> 0:51:35.600 a barista, and she's been like having to coach him 0:51:35.640 --> 0:51:37.960 every day, which is a really awkward situation because she's 0:51:37.960 --> 0:51:40.680 not even a supervisor. She's like a barista, and she 0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:42.720 has to be like, hey, there's a difference between Nitro 0:51:42.840 --> 0:51:45.560 coold Brew and regular coold Brew, Like keep putting the 0:51:45.640 --> 0:51:48.680 wrong button. Very frustrating when they sent this guy into 0:51:48.760 --> 0:51:51.960 run my store. Meanwhile, like he probably knows less than 0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:54.120 everybody else that works there. Yeah, definitely knows us. And 0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:58.080 you do like, yeah, definitely knows less than me. It's 0:51:58.120 --> 0:52:00.839 so funny. Since I've been fired, I still like every 0:52:00.840 --> 0:52:04.200 time there's an emergency at my store, my barristas called me. 0:52:05.080 --> 0:52:08.040 It's wild. Like I got a call at five in 0:52:08.080 --> 0:52:10.280 the morning the other day from one of my favorite 0:52:10.320 --> 0:52:12.759 barristas and he was like, hey, Tori, I know you 0:52:12.760 --> 0:52:16.120 don't work here anymore, but sal was supposed to open 0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:17.799 and he's not here yet and I'm locked out of 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:21.040 the store. What do I do? Or Like another barrista 0:52:21.120 --> 0:52:22.400 called me when I was in d C and he 0:52:22.440 --> 0:52:24.319 was like, Tori, I just shrote up for work and 0:52:24.360 --> 0:52:26.719 the store is closed. What do I do? And I 0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:29.600 was like, I don't know that. I was like, I 0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:34.040 can do my best to help you, but I there's 0:52:34.040 --> 0:52:38.440 not much I can physically do. I don't have keys anymore. Sorry, Yeah. 0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:41.440 And it's it's really like, you know, one of one 0:52:41.480 --> 0:52:43.480 of the things that I mean, I guess you get 0:52:43.480 --> 0:52:45.239 this in both sort of like like when I want 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:48.600 to like so I went to the verse of Chicago, 0:52:48.760 --> 0:52:50.360 and you know, it's like, okay, so these are the 0:52:50.360 --> 0:52:53.000 people who infamously produced all of the terrible economics that 0:52:53.080 --> 0:52:54.839 make the world suck, right, and it's like okay, well 0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:57.600 you take econ classes there and it's like everything is 0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:00.880 about sort of like I like, you're doing all of 0:53:00.920 --> 0:53:05.399 this because I like, okay, so like the you're you're 0:53:05.400 --> 0:53:06.840 doing all of this under the assumption that if you 0:53:06.920 --> 0:53:09.360 let corporations run into free market, they will do everything optimally, 0:53:09.400 --> 0:53:10.920 and they will produce the lowest prices, and they will 0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:13.120 produce everything as efficiently as possible. It's funny because like 0:53:13.160 --> 0:53:14.640 you see this in like Marxist theory too. And then 0:53:14.640 --> 0:53:16.840 it's like you look at like any store place and 0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:19.280 it's like no, no, no, they're firing their most competent 0:53:19.280 --> 0:53:22.160 workers and hiring people who are incompetent because like because 0:53:22.200 --> 0:53:24.920 the thing that they actually like care them most about 0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:27.480 even more than efficiency, even more than like making more 0:53:27.520 --> 0:53:35.879 money is maintaining their power, and it's like it's something 0:53:35.880 --> 0:53:40.839 that like is really obvious when you're working, but somehow, 0:53:41.040 --> 0:53:44.080 like the people who write about this stuff has like 0:53:44.080 --> 0:53:47.320 deluded themselves into not being able to understand. Yeah, that's 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:50.440 no idea. It's like it feels like they almost don't 0:53:50.480 --> 0:53:54.400 want the experienced workers to say I've seen, like so 0:53:54.480 --> 0:53:57.120 part of my internship project is keeping a database of 0:53:57.600 --> 0:53:59.799 the fire and partners in the anti union firings, which 0:53:59.800 --> 0:54:01.959 is d of ironic because I was like, well, gotta 0:54:02.000 --> 0:54:06.160 add myself to this spreadheet now, But I've seen I 0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:08.760 seen people must freadheet who worked the company for five years. 0:54:08.760 --> 0:54:11.280 There's one person on there who worked for the company 0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:15.360 for seventeen years. But we don't get raises or anything 0:54:15.480 --> 0:54:18.040 for a seniority or anything like that. There's actually a 0:54:18.080 --> 0:54:20.359 cap on how much you can make in each state 0:54:20.440 --> 0:54:23.279 from Starbucks because they don't they don't want you to 0:54:23.280 --> 0:54:26.319 work there forever because then the frustrations start to come through, 0:54:26.840 --> 0:54:30.040 and then new the new unionized, and it feels like 0:54:30.080 --> 0:54:34.799 they the high turnover feels really intentional. Sometimes I think 0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:37.000 it is like I think that that's that's like a 0:54:37.040 --> 0:54:39.759 pretty common, like Amazon Justice too, where it's like their 0:54:39.800 --> 0:54:43.560 whole their their whole business strategies is intentionally on working 0:54:43.560 --> 0:54:44.920 every one so hard as they quit so I can 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:46.600 get a new group of people, and so people don't 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:51.960 organize and it's yeah, yeah, it's really brutal and horrific 0:54:52.200 --> 0:54:55.680 and I hate these people. Yeah same, It's like if 0:54:55.680 --> 0:54:58.160 I see this person here for ten years and make 0:54:58.239 --> 0:55:01.560 this look like it's a sustainable career, then then we 0:55:01.560 --> 0:55:04.239 have to make it a sustainable career. And I don't 0:55:04.280 --> 0:55:07.200 want to do that. So bourse people out after like 0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:11.560 two or three so very frustrating, which I think I 0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:13.600 guess also helps them with the sort of like like 0:55:13.640 --> 0:55:16.800 the way that people look at like I mean minium 0:55:16.800 --> 0:55:18.799 wage workers and also just service workers in general, where 0:55:18.800 --> 0:55:20.359 they're like, oh, well, yeah, you know, we don't need 0:55:20.400 --> 0:55:22.239 to raise minium wages a bunch of teenagers, Like these 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:24.640 people don't need like good wages because this is like, 0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:26.160 you know, you're not actually supposed to be doing this, 0:55:26.160 --> 0:55:28.920 This is like a transition thing. It's like that's not 0:55:28.960 --> 0:55:31.799 how any of this works, Like it's just not that's 0:55:31.840 --> 0:55:38.000 just you're you're you're making excuses for corporations doing exploitation. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Yeah. 0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:39.719 And it also seems like another thing they're doing is 0:55:39.719 --> 0:55:43.200 that we've seen a lot of really high manager turnover too, 0:55:43.960 --> 0:55:47.839 And I think that also is really intentional because they 0:55:47.880 --> 0:55:51.280 had to even though the storm manager that ultimately fired 0:55:51.320 --> 0:55:55.440 me was new, like she couldn't she didn't even have 0:55:55.480 --> 0:55:57.759 the heart to do that. She had to bring in. 0:55:57.800 --> 0:55:59.480 They had to bring in a support manager to like 0:55:59.520 --> 0:56:03.080 actually of the words like you're fired, here's a termination notice. 0:56:03.600 --> 0:56:06.240 And it feels like the reason they're making the manager's 0:56:06.280 --> 0:56:08.799 anniverse so high is so that the managers don't like 0:56:08.840 --> 0:56:11.680 form those relationships with the staff of the store because 0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:13.680 it doesn't feel as bad to fire them. Like I 0:56:13.719 --> 0:56:16.399 don't think this ever would have happened to me if 0:56:16.440 --> 0:56:18.640 my original store manager, who had been there for five 0:56:18.719 --> 0:56:21.920 years and like knew me personally, was still at my store, 0:56:21.960 --> 0:56:23.560 I don't think this would have happened. And I think 0:56:23.600 --> 0:56:25.960 that's why they're doing this big manager shuffle right now, 0:56:26.360 --> 0:56:28.640 at least, I mean, I'm sure it's happening in other places. 0:56:28.640 --> 0:56:31.040 It's definitely happening a lot in Pittsburgh. I think there 0:56:31.040 --> 0:56:33.560 are very few stores in my district that had the 0:56:33.560 --> 0:56:37.040 same manager that they had three months ago. It feels 0:56:37.040 --> 0:56:39.600 like they're intentionally shuffling them around so they don't form 0:56:39.680 --> 0:56:42.960 like personal relationships or any sort of emotional tie to 0:56:43.040 --> 0:56:45.600 the partners at their store, and they don't feel guilty 0:56:45.640 --> 0:56:48.520 firing them. Yeah, it's like it's community is really dangerous 0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:51.879 to them. M absolutely, Like I think I talked about 0:56:51.880 --> 0:56:58.000 this like some number of episodes ago, but like yeah, 0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:00.440 like this is this is the thing that's really common 0:57:00.640 --> 0:57:04.799 with Like I'm just I'm just gonna straight up called 0:57:05.000 --> 0:57:09.000 Starbucks dicatorial organization because it is like it is just 0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:10.799 a dictatorship. It's like the tatorships do this a lot 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:14.399 where like yeah, like communities are really dangerous to them. 0:57:14.400 --> 0:57:16.560 Communities with any kind of strong bonds with each other 0:57:16.600 --> 0:57:19.120 really dangerous because people will fight for each other, and 0:57:19.480 --> 0:57:22.160 you know, you can't for example, like I don't know, 0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:25.280 it's it's really really hard to support someone who has 0:57:25.320 --> 0:57:27.120 a strong community around them that will fight back. But 0:57:27.120 --> 0:57:30.680 if you can isolate those people, if you can like 0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:33.760 like physically isolate them, if you can like socially isolate them, 0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:35.120 if you can make sure that they don't have these 0:57:35.120 --> 0:57:36.880 support networks, then you can then you can you know, 0:57:36.960 --> 0:57:40.240 do whatever you want to them. And that seems yeah, 0:57:40.280 --> 0:57:44.160 it seems like it's it's a very deliberate like and 0:57:44.160 --> 0:57:45.520 didn't even think it was, like you know this also 0:57:45.560 --> 0:57:48.800 like this just makes everyone's life worse, right, Like, did 0:57:48.840 --> 0:57:51.640 you see what happened in Seattle with the new Starbucks 0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:56.240 Heritage District. I think I've vaguely heard about it, but yeah, 0:57:56.560 --> 0:58:00.439 so in Seattle, the three like origin I leave, it's 0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:03.960 the three original Starbucks stores, like first ever Starbucks stores 0:58:04.000 --> 0:58:07.120 to open, the three in Seattle. Um, they've made it 0:58:07.200 --> 0:58:10.520 so that you don't the partners there don't have a 0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:13.640 specific store that they're assigned to. They're assigned into the 0:58:13.720 --> 0:58:17.080 district and can be scheduled at any store at any time. 0:58:17.360 --> 0:58:19.200 So you're not working with the same people all the 0:58:19.240 --> 0:58:22.440 time and you're not forming those relationships. And if you 0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:28.040 were to somehow forming of relationships to start organizing, UM, 0:58:28.120 --> 0:58:29.640 you wouldn't be able to vote as a store. You 0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:32.320 have to vote as a district, which is just a 0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:35.680 lot more logistically difficult, And there was a lot of 0:58:35.680 --> 0:58:39.120 pushback that happened, but unfortunately those stores hadn't file up 0:58:39.120 --> 0:58:41.960 for an election yet. And um weren't really able to 0:58:42.000 --> 0:58:44.440 do much about it, but we're definitely scared of that 0:58:44.520 --> 0:58:47.200 happening like in Pittsburg and like at other Starbucks stores 0:58:47.200 --> 0:58:48.600 around the country, that they're going to make it so 0:58:48.600 --> 0:58:50.520 that you work for the district on the specific store 0:58:51.200 --> 0:58:54.880 and that's kind of terrifying. So yeah, I mean, and 0:58:54.880 --> 0:58:56.720 I think that that's not everything where it's like okay 0:58:56.720 --> 0:58:59.480 that they have to have to weigh efficiency versus like 0:58:59.680 --> 0:59:01.560 they're power and they're going to choose their own power 0:59:01.600 --> 0:59:06.160 every time. Like there's just like an aspect of that too, 0:59:06.200 --> 0:59:11.560 where it's like they're just incredible dehumanization of it. Yeah, 0:59:11.640 --> 0:59:14.560 it's just totally it's like really careless, like you don't 0:59:14.600 --> 0:59:19.040 know what someone's transportation situation looks like. Um, you don't know, 0:59:19.160 --> 0:59:22.720 like if they feel comfortable working with like different groups 0:59:22.760 --> 0:59:24.440 of people, Like I don't know, I know that like 0:59:24.520 --> 0:59:28.680 a lot of people at UM. So this is just 0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:30.280 reminding me of something that happened at the store in 0:59:30.280 --> 0:59:32.720 my area. So at Penn Center East, the Penn Center 0:59:32.720 --> 0:59:35.000 East Starbucks, they are Union store. They decided they were 0:59:35.040 --> 0:59:38.440 closing Penn Center East for like a for an entire 0:59:38.520 --> 0:59:41.160 week and gave them the option to work at three 0:59:41.200 --> 0:59:44.200 stores that were like an hour away from them, and 0:59:44.920 --> 0:59:46.800 of course, like they were only giving the option to 0:59:46.800 --> 0:59:48.680 work at other stores that were unionized, they weren't going 0:59:48.720 --> 0:59:50.760 to send the union people into the non unionized store 0:59:51.160 --> 0:59:54.920 potentially influenced them. So one of the partners, the one 0:59:54.920 --> 0:59:56.680 that was actually fired yesterday, it was like, I do 0:59:56.760 --> 0:59:59.680 not feel comfortable working at this store because I worked 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:03.520 at this or one time and I faced a lot 1:00:03.560 --> 1:00:06.120 of discrimination from the from the manager there, from the 1:00:06.160 --> 1:00:08.200 partners there, and I don't want to be put in 1:00:08.240 --> 1:00:11.240 that situation again. There's like a customer at this other 1:00:11.280 --> 1:00:13.680 store that said or that called me a racial slur, 1:00:13.840 --> 1:00:15.959 and I don't want to be in this area. I don't. 1:00:16.120 --> 1:00:18.200 I don't want to go out to these stores. And 1:00:18.280 --> 1:00:20.240 it just like exposes partners to like a lot more 1:00:20.600 --> 1:00:22.840 like situations that they're potentially not comfortable with there, with 1:00:22.920 --> 1:00:25.720 new managers that they don't have like a good rapport 1:00:25.800 --> 1:00:29.520 with yet, and it makes everything just a lot more difficult. 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:31.640 Like just let everyone work at their own store, Like 1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:33.640 we all have friends. All the partners that like my 1:00:33.720 --> 1:00:35.920 store at least were very very close. I know a 1:00:36.000 --> 1:00:38.160 lot of the stores are the same way. It just 1:00:38.200 --> 1:00:41.120 makes work worse to not be working with your friends. 1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:44.440 I don't think anyone would work in market Square if 1:00:44.480 --> 1:00:50.400 we weren't all really close with each other. Um overall 1:00:50.480 --> 1:00:53.760 just work situation. Yeah, And I don't know, hope, hope, 1:00:53.760 --> 1:00:55.960 hopefully they're not able to do that on a large scale, 1:00:56.000 --> 1:01:00.920 because yeah, that would be It's feels like a disaster, 1:01:01.800 --> 1:01:05.600 especially since I mean there's a lot of Starbucks stores 1:01:05.640 --> 1:01:07.600 like concentrated in cities, but I know, like the Penn's 1:01:07.600 --> 1:01:11.600 Center East Starbucks was kind of out there in the suburbs. 1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:14.520 And another big issue that they faced was that, like, 1:01:15.120 --> 1:01:17.000 we don't have some of us don't have cars, and 1:01:17.040 --> 1:01:20.600 we just can't get to like the city Starbucks stores 1:01:20.640 --> 1:01:22.959 because our parents drive us to work, to our parents 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:24.520 drive us to work every day because we're in high 1:01:24.520 --> 1:01:27.320 school and we just don't have like a means of transportation. 1:01:27.360 --> 1:01:30.600 There's nowhere to park there, and it just puts them, 1:01:30.640 --> 1:01:32.120 It just makes them face a lot of issues that 1:01:32.200 --> 1:01:34.880 they weren't really planned on dealing with, planning on dealing with, 1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:38.720 and aren't really prepared to. And they probably chose the 1:01:38.720 --> 1:01:42.040 store that they currently work at because, like they didn't 1:01:42.040 --> 1:01:43.440 just pick it at random. They picked becuse it was 1:01:43.440 --> 1:01:46.240 community to get to. They like vibes there and it 1:01:46.320 --> 1:01:48.840 was like a good fit for them, and forcing them 1:01:48.880 --> 1:01:51.480 to work at other other stores where there are a 1:01:51.560 --> 1:01:55.680 lot less comfortable. Not a good decision. Just feels shady, 1:01:56.200 --> 1:01:59.880 very dehumanizing for sure. Yeah, and so I guess I do. 1:02:00.000 --> 1:02:01.680 I do have phone lessing to ask, which is if 1:02:01.720 --> 1:02:03.600 people want to support you and if people want to 1:02:03.600 --> 1:02:06.919 find you in places, where can they do that? Oh? Yeah, 1:02:07.040 --> 1:02:11.800 so my Twitter is Tory Underscore Timbolini and that's my 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:14.800 personal Twitter. We also have a Pittsburgh Starbucks Workers United 1:02:15.200 --> 1:02:18.120 Twitter account. Um, if you want to support me and 1:02:18.200 --> 1:02:20.800 Kim specifically, there is a link to our go funds 1:02:20.880 --> 1:02:23.720 me there. There's a link in my bio and somewhere 1:02:23.800 --> 1:02:28.840 in the Pittsburgh account as well. We also just released 1:02:28.960 --> 1:02:32.920 a National Solidarity fund um through a coworker, but I'm 1:02:32.960 --> 1:02:36.880 actually not quite clear on how people can donate to 1:02:36.920 --> 1:02:39.120 that yet. I can. It's very new, So I can 1:02:39.160 --> 1:02:41.919 send you an email with a link to that. Yeah cool. Yeah, 1:02:42.000 --> 1:02:45.000 well we'll put all the links in the show notes. Awesome, 1:02:45.320 --> 1:02:47.400 Thank you so much, Yeah, thank you, thank you so much. 1:02:47.440 --> 1:02:51.840 For joining us is Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, 1:02:51.880 --> 1:02:54.360 thank you so much for sharing my story. I I 1:02:54.440 --> 1:02:57.560 feel like there's a lot of fired partners fired partners 1:02:57.560 --> 1:02:59.480 across the country and like we all kind of need 1:02:59.520 --> 1:03:01.480 to stand together there. And I like people hear my 1:03:01.560 --> 1:03:04.920 story and hear about how like the union has supported 1:03:05.000 --> 1:03:06.960 us and there's been a lot of community support. And 1:03:07.080 --> 1:03:09.320 you know, as soon as I was fired, I was 1:03:09.400 --> 1:03:12.200 immediately hired by Workers United. You know, they're really willing 1:03:12.240 --> 1:03:14.160 to take care of us. And if I had like 1:03:14.200 --> 1:03:19.080 anything to kind of like like any advice to give 1:03:19.120 --> 1:03:21.160 the partners who are trying to organize, like the union 1:03:21.160 --> 1:03:23.440 has your back, don't worry too much about losing your job. 1:03:23.600 --> 1:03:26.040 Probably won't happen. If it does, the union has your back, 1:03:26.200 --> 1:03:30.360 and all the other fire partners have your back as well. Thanks. 1:03:30.600 --> 1:03:34.200 Hell yeah. Yeah. And on that note, yeah, fight your 1:03:34.200 --> 1:03:38.440 bosses together. You can beat them. Uh yeah. Go out 1:03:38.480 --> 1:03:41.960 into the world and make havoc for people who do 1:03:42.000 --> 1:04:01.880 bad stuff, cause problems on purpose. Welcome to it could 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:07.360 happen here a podcast that I've could and yeah, well welcome. 1:04:07.360 --> 1:04:11.400 We'll welcome to the inaugural podcast where it's just Christopher 1:04:11.400 --> 1:04:15.160 and Andrew. I'm your house, Christopher Wong, and I got 1:04:15.200 --> 1:04:20.640 I got Andrew with with me today to cast the pod. Okay, yes, 1:04:21.360 --> 1:04:26.280 I have Tony age from Thank you for that. UM. 1:04:26.360 --> 1:04:28.400 I had to sacrifice you for that one, because I 1:04:28.480 --> 1:04:32.760 was not gonna gonna do it myself. UM. Welcome to 1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:37.200 the first in a two part exploration of the New 1:04:37.240 --> 1:04:43.200 African revolutionary known as Kasi Balacoon. He's one of the 1:04:43.200 --> 1:04:47.320 most recognizable black and archaic radicals of the whole black 1:04:47.320 --> 1:04:53.600 and radical tradition. UM. Recognized for his constant struggle, UM, 1:04:53.640 --> 1:04:58.600 for his political journey, and for his insights in the 1:04:58.920 --> 1:05:03.160 cause of you know, black freedom in the US. And 1:05:03.160 --> 1:05:06.080 so I think it's his very layered journey is one 1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:10.479 I believe that more people should explore, and I hope 1:05:10.520 --> 1:05:13.480 that more people would come away with this episode and 1:05:13.720 --> 1:05:19.040 the following episode, the second part, with a recognition of 1:05:20.880 --> 1:05:28.000 what an inspiring person is and what we can can 1:05:28.080 --> 1:05:32.920 learn from his life. Hell yeah, I'm excited. He's super cool. 1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:37.760 Yeah yeah, for many reasons. As I think we will 1:05:37.800 --> 1:05:40.800 start at the very beginning, as most humans do. I 1:05:40.840 --> 1:05:42.480 don't think we know of anybody who just kind of 1:05:42.560 --> 1:05:47.320 plopped onto the youth fully formed. His quasi bo lagoon 1:05:47.400 --> 1:05:50.240 was not his original name, was his chosen name. He 1:05:50.400 --> 1:05:54.680 was born Donald Wims in the major majority black community 1:05:54.680 --> 1:05:59.080 of Leland in Prince George's County, Maryland and December twenty second, 1:05:59.200 --> 1:06:03.160 n six, So I'm sure he got like his Christmas 1:06:03.160 --> 1:06:10.439 presents and his birthday presents like combined. That was a laugh. 1:06:13.600 --> 1:06:17.000 It's thinking my one of my oh I think it's 1:06:18.480 --> 1:06:25.600 my my uncle or something has his birthday is, yeah, December, Yeah, 1:06:25.640 --> 1:06:28.280 one of my uncle's bothday is I think, and my 1:06:28.280 --> 1:06:31.680 girlfriend's birthday is the twenty. Yeah. That's that's some That 1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:36.640 is some rip stuff there. Yeah. I mean I try 1:06:36.680 --> 1:06:39.680 not to like add to that, so I try and 1:06:39.720 --> 1:06:43.200 get two separate gifts, but um, you know, it's a 1:06:43.320 --> 1:06:47.880 it's a challenge. And then talk of that like you 1:06:47.880 --> 1:06:50.000 can't really do much for your birthday because everybody has 1:06:50.000 --> 1:06:54.560 always been like last minute stuff. Yep, yep. Thankfully I 1:06:54.600 --> 1:06:58.640 was born in the best month. So anyway, the experiences 1:06:59.120 --> 1:07:03.160 prepared young Donald Williams to become an activist who would 1:07:03.240 --> 1:07:09.320 militantly resist white supremacy and unjust authority. He was particularly 1:07:09.360 --> 1:07:14.600 inspired by his own parents struggle um during the Cambridge 1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:18.640 Protest of is he his dad had worked in the 1:07:18.720 --> 1:07:25.720 US Printed Office, and his mom had worked at Fort 1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:30.800 Meade in Maryland, and so they, he and his sister 1:07:30.880 --> 1:07:33.920 were very much cared for. He and his two sisters 1:07:34.000 --> 1:07:36.400 rather very much cared for. He think he was the 1:07:36.480 --> 1:07:42.560 youngest of the family and loved and they really showed 1:07:44.840 --> 1:07:50.600 um that sort of drive to provide and care for 1:07:50.600 --> 1:07:55.840 for for their children. Um in those work environments they 1:07:55.840 --> 1:07:59.640 would have seen, he observed, and he watched it. He 1:07:59.680 --> 1:08:03.160 observe of his parents, observing the effort that they put in, 1:08:03.920 --> 1:08:09.919 and the fact that they surpassed the skill and experience 1:08:10.000 --> 1:08:11.480 of a lot of the white folks who came into 1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:13.880 their type of work. But then those said white folks 1:08:13.880 --> 1:08:16.960 who just go on ahead and climb the ladder and 1:08:17.200 --> 1:08:20.080 you know, get these promotions and get these raiss while 1:08:20.120 --> 1:08:26.160 they themselves had to like slowly and painfully drag themselves 1:08:26.160 --> 1:08:29.960 forward and fight to get ahead. Also that their children 1:08:30.040 --> 1:08:32.280 could have their food and clothes and everything that they needed. 1:08:33.720 --> 1:08:38.160 So the Cambridge Right the ninety three were led by 1:08:38.400 --> 1:08:41.880 a young one by the name of Gloria Richardson, who 1:08:42.000 --> 1:08:45.880 was a key figure in the civil rights Movement UM. 1:08:46.040 --> 1:08:48.240 Their struggle had he moved as part of the Civil 1:08:48.320 --> 1:08:52.160 Rights Movement UM and the local chapter of the Student 1:08:52.240 --> 1:08:57.400 Tern VIOLENTCE Coordinating Committee. There was fighting against segregation in 1:08:57.439 --> 1:09:00.320 the area, organizing sit ins and so on and so forward. 1:09:01.680 --> 1:09:05.320 But after they had organized against a movie theater that 1:09:05.439 --> 1:09:11.400 was expanding its discriminatory practices, UM the movement started to 1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:15.080 push back and they marched, and the demands were unmet, 1:09:15.400 --> 1:09:19.559 and the police were called and Richardson and others were 1:09:19.640 --> 1:09:24.080 arrested for disorderly conduct, and there was a whole pattern 1:09:24.120 --> 1:09:26.840 of protests and arrests and boycotts and harassed when they 1:09:26.920 --> 1:09:30.320 just went on and on and on. After some youths 1:09:30.720 --> 1:09:34.560 both a few years old were charged with disorderly conduct 1:09:34.760 --> 1:09:38.920 for being arrested and were arrested for pretting peacefully outside 1:09:38.920 --> 1:09:43.519 of a segregated facility. Even more marchers were organized, and 1:09:45.280 --> 1:09:51.200 eventually the protests escalated and some white owned businesses we 1:09:51.280 --> 1:09:55.719 set on fire. Then gunfire was being exchanged between whites 1:09:55.800 --> 1:10:01.959 and African Americans, and of course martial law was declared 1:10:02.320 --> 1:10:09.840 and National Guard was deployed, and eventually a treaty had 1:10:09.880 --> 1:10:13.920 to be negotiated between UM Glory Richardson and the white 1:10:13.920 --> 1:10:18.400 power structure. The Gambridge movement is recognized by the Nation 1:10:18.439 --> 1:10:22.599 of Islam as one of the marcom x as one 1:10:22.600 --> 1:10:27.479 of the examples of a developing black revolution, and so 1:10:27.520 --> 1:10:32.000 that militancy in that movement is well inspired and impressed 1:10:32.840 --> 1:10:38.679 the young Donald Williams would later become quest. Probably another 1:10:38.800 --> 1:10:41.200 formative point in his in his life was when he 1:10:41.240 --> 1:10:43.360 had joined the U. S Army after graduate in high 1:10:43.360 --> 1:10:47.480 school and were stationed in Germany after receiving some basic trina. 1:10:47.800 --> 1:10:49.800 Of course, like most black people in the military, he 1:10:49.880 --> 1:10:53.400 experienced a lot of racism and physical attacks from white officers, 1:10:54.600 --> 1:10:59.439 and eventually he and others formed the association known as 1:10:59.520 --> 1:11:06.280 the Legist Leaders, basically based on like messing up racists 1:11:06.400 --> 1:11:12.000 and making sure that they couldn't like interfare with them 1:11:12.000 --> 1:11:16.880 any longer. Yeah, he prided himself in his ability to 1:11:16.960 --> 1:11:22.680 exact revenge on racist war suits while in Europe. He 1:11:22.720 --> 1:11:24.479 was in London at one point and he connected with 1:11:24.560 --> 1:11:29.840 Africans and African descendants, and he saw his experience and 1:11:29.920 --> 1:11:33.040 learn that it's basically like a natural tonic like it's 1:11:33.080 --> 1:11:36.120 something that clicked in his head and he realized the 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:40.800 interconnections between African descendants across the globe. Um as he 1:11:40.840 --> 1:11:44.680 grounded himself more in in black consciousness and culture, he 1:11:44.760 --> 1:11:48.839 stopped processing his hair while it is natural hair style 1:11:49.560 --> 1:11:52.200 and became basically more committed to black liberation than he 1:11:52.240 --> 1:11:56.840 had been before. After being honorably honorably discharged the ninety seven, 1:11:57.360 --> 1:12:01.360 after three years of servant primarily in Germany, he returned 1:12:01.400 --> 1:12:05.760 home to Lakeland, UM and then he moved to New 1:12:05.840 --> 1:12:08.880 York City, where his sister Diane had lived. And in 1:12:08.920 --> 1:12:12.160 New York he got involved in wrench strikes and became 1:12:12.200 --> 1:12:16.080 parts of a tenant organizing movement for the Community Council 1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:19.920 of Housing. One of the principal leaders of this of 1:12:20.000 --> 1:12:23.080 this movement was a hulum rend strike organized so called 1:12:23.160 --> 1:12:26.599 Jesse Green, and he used the rhetoric of like militant 1:12:26.720 --> 1:12:32.799 Black nationalism to recruit lieutenants for his activist campaigns. His 1:12:32.800 --> 1:12:37.479 his militancy when you know, pull it back, and he 1:12:37.520 --> 1:12:41.400 connected with the militantcy that Donald was already feeling drawn 1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:44.080 to is what it really pushed him to get into 1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:48.639 that cause. And so I think it makes me think 1:12:48.680 --> 1:12:51.760 as I'm you know, going through his journey about like 1:12:53.040 --> 1:12:55.240 I mean, his commitment to the struggle began from very 1:12:55.240 --> 1:12:57.680 early on, from seeing his parents and the things they 1:12:57.680 --> 1:13:00.000 had to do with from seeing the Cambridge riots, from 1:13:00.040 --> 1:13:04.920 seeing his experience in the army, from connecting with UM, 1:13:04.960 --> 1:13:09.960 with black folks in London, with UM his tenant organizing. 1:13:11.120 --> 1:13:14.800 And it makes me think of the political journeys of 1:13:14.840 --> 1:13:22.120 people today and how all these little points and larger 1:13:22.120 --> 1:13:26.200 points in a Pererson's life kind of combined to create 1:13:26.240 --> 1:13:28.479 the sort of tapestry of a person that they are 1:13:28.960 --> 1:13:33.559 and a tapestry of political beliefs that they wuld. I 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:36.840 think a lot more people have been drawn to like 1:13:38.800 --> 1:13:43.120 militant radical politics, left rack of politics than we give 1:13:43.160 --> 1:13:46.000 them credit for. The more people have that basis than 1:13:47.320 --> 1:13:55.639 we necessarily um want to accept. I think the issues 1:13:55.720 --> 1:14:02.479 we just don't have the outreach and please do you know, 1:14:02.520 --> 1:14:06.680 help them get across the finish line and get to 1:14:06.720 --> 1:14:13.320 a place where the actively you know, working for these courses. Yeah, 1:14:13.360 --> 1:14:15.160 it seems like there's a lot of I mean, partially 1:14:15.200 --> 1:14:17.960 burned out and partially just sort of I don't know. 1:14:18.040 --> 1:14:20.280 You you get these you get periods where sort of 1:14:20.320 --> 1:14:22.400 just like specific movements ends and a bunch of people 1:14:22.439 --> 1:14:24.000 just kind of fall out, and it's like, it's not 1:14:24.040 --> 1:14:27.519 that they haven't done this stuff, it's that they just 1:14:27.560 --> 1:14:30.160 sort of, I don't know, the movement to the thing 1:14:30.160 --> 1:14:31.720 they were in is over and now they're sort of 1:14:31.720 --> 1:14:38.160 just off doing something else. And yeah, and that reminds 1:14:38.200 --> 1:14:41.320 me of um well, rhymes of a script that I 1:14:41.360 --> 1:14:44.960 was working on the other day about demands. And one 1:14:45.000 --> 1:14:49.000 of the arguments people have made against making demands, you know, 1:14:49.040 --> 1:14:52.479 as a movement is that once demands are met, it's 1:14:52.479 --> 1:15:00.160 sort of what concessions even made. It's SAPs the momentum 1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:05.240 out of a movement and SAPs its potential because if you, 1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:10.200 you know, accept concessions, if you accept that, you know, 1:15:10.720 --> 1:15:13.800 when whatever you receive and you know, you go back 1:15:13.840 --> 1:15:18.880 in your loyalty, you don't reach the climax of what 1:15:18.920 --> 1:15:22.800 you could have achieved as a movement compared to if 1:15:22.800 --> 1:15:26.760 you've just kept going. Of course, I have critiques of 1:15:26.840 --> 1:15:31.320 the anti demand position, but it's something that they frequently 1:15:31.720 --> 1:15:34.000 consider when I look at a lot of these social 1:15:34.040 --> 1:15:40.720 movements that have based on specific projects, based on specific focuses, 1:15:41.520 --> 1:15:44.360 and what happens when these movements get you know, coopted, 1:15:44.520 --> 1:15:51.400 When these movements get compromised, and the way that the 1:15:51.520 --> 1:15:56.040 potential and the share manpower of some of these movements 1:15:57.120 --> 1:16:01.280 compared to like what they've actually achieved is a massive discrepancy. 1:16:02.600 --> 1:16:06.760 You know. Yeah, and this I was thinking about. Um 1:16:07.400 --> 1:16:09.400 it was something in The Bastard's episode a long time 1:16:09.400 --> 1:16:13.519 ago about um. The the name of the treaty was Ampo, 1:16:13.560 --> 1:16:15.920 wh just like there was this huge mobilization in Japan 1:16:16.160 --> 1:16:20.639 in the sixties to stop this treaty with the US. 1:16:21.360 --> 1:16:23.720 Was a military treaty they're doing there, and they hit 1:16:23.760 --> 1:16:26.240 a whole bunch of stuff in it. Like I think 1:16:26.240 --> 1:16:28.799 there was a closet let the US like invade Japan 1:16:29.000 --> 1:16:31.800 if there was like a civil disturbance or something stuff 1:16:31.840 --> 1:16:33.439 like that, and they, you know, they had this huge 1:16:33.439 --> 1:16:37.800 movement like people people stormed the parliament like multiple times, 1:16:37.840 --> 1:16:42.880 like you know, I think, I think. I think afterwards 1:16:43.080 --> 1:16:45.519 the historians determined that like a third of the total 1:16:45.520 --> 1:16:48.519 population of Japan had been involved in this movement. And 1:16:48.520 --> 1:16:50.880 then they lost because the whole movement had been about 1:16:50.880 --> 1:16:52.519 stopping this treaty and the treaty gets signed that they 1:16:52.520 --> 1:16:54.559 can't do anything about it, and then it just sort 1:16:54.600 --> 1:16:58.320 of like fizzles and it kind of becomes the Japanese 1:16:58.400 --> 1:17:01.960 New Left. But like you know, you have this like 1:17:02.040 --> 1:17:06.519 incredible high water mark of like like you you have 1:17:06.600 --> 1:17:09.879 you have so many from the then even the Japanese 1:17:09.920 --> 1:17:13.120 you left like dissipeate. Yeah, yeah, and they they it implodes, 1:17:13.280 --> 1:17:17.120 like yeah, you go from like like Nixon, like was 1:17:17.160 --> 1:17:20.000 it Nixon you tried to visit And I think that 1:17:20.000 --> 1:17:21.560 there's been a couple of US presidents you tried to 1:17:21.600 --> 1:17:23.320 You tried to visit Japan and couldn't leave the airport 1:17:23.360 --> 1:17:25.640 because the bob was too large outside of it, And 1:17:25.640 --> 1:17:28.960 he's like it went from that too. You know, everything 1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:30.960 is sort of once once, once once. They're sort of 1:17:30.960 --> 1:17:33.840 like immediate rallying, like here's our demand, there's our goal, 1:17:33.920 --> 1:17:38.040 like like disappears. Everything just sort of splinters into these 1:17:38.040 --> 1:17:40.639 like weird fragment groups and you get like a bunch 1:17:40.640 --> 1:17:43.920 of Japanese Marxists just like shooting each other over nothing 1:17:43.960 --> 1:17:46.519 in the mountains, and the whole thing sort of just implodes. 1:17:49.280 --> 1:17:51.800 And yeah, I mean even if you look at like 1:17:51.800 --> 1:17:54.200 like say Fridays the Futures and an example or like 1:17:54.280 --> 1:17:59.040 extension rebellion, no George Floyd protests, and you can sit 1:17:59.280 --> 1:18:03.600 and just sit and think about the shant numbers involved 1:18:03.640 --> 1:18:10.320 into his movements, the potential of that large mobilization, a 1:18:10.400 --> 1:18:16.519 mobilization effort, compared to what comes out of them. You know, 1:18:16.720 --> 1:18:21.240 like what other than a few minor policy changes, what 1:18:21.439 --> 1:18:25.400 has you know, say extinction, rebellion or frids the future 1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:30.160 achieved when you know these massive co operations are still 1:18:30.200 --> 1:18:34.439 actively fights in every step of the way, and these 1:18:34.479 --> 1:18:37.960 movements are not yet willing to do what it takes 1:18:38.040 --> 1:18:42.200 to you know, accomplished. It needs to be accomplished. Not 1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:47.840 even talking about violence. I'm not talking about violence. I 1:18:47.880 --> 1:18:51.640 am not talking about violence. What I'm talking about is 1:18:54.280 --> 1:19:01.400 the efforts involved, the work that goes into social revolution, 1:19:02.080 --> 1:19:07.719 that goes beyond the sort of flashy, easily recognizable march 1:19:07.800 --> 1:19:11.000 and the street kind of activities, because there's a lot 1:19:11.040 --> 1:19:12.840 of stuff that goes behind the scenes. A lot of 1:19:12.880 --> 1:19:15.519 institutions need to be built from the bottom up, a 1:19:15.520 --> 1:19:18.000 lot of institutions need to be transformed from the inside out. 1:19:19.640 --> 1:19:22.280 And you know, without that basis in place, which is 1:19:22.520 --> 1:19:27.000 spinning on top in mud. But back to weams like 1:19:27.040 --> 1:19:29.960 me in his generation, he was ready to join an 1:19:30.040 --> 1:19:35.559 uncompromised movement for black freedom and human rights. He joined 1:19:35.640 --> 1:19:38.599 Jesse Gray and protesting the conditions and New York housing, 1:19:39.120 --> 1:19:44.120 particularly infestation of rats and public housing. In fact, and 1:19:44.240 --> 1:19:47.120 this is probably one of my favorite stories of his 1:19:47.400 --> 1:19:53.240 entire you know, like lifetime as an activist, a's no organizer. 1:19:54.040 --> 1:20:00.599 In n Jesse Gray, Donald Wellims, his sister to Diane, 1:20:00.840 --> 1:20:05.439 and two other ternant activists were arrested for disorderly conduct 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:11.599 in Washington, d C. When they unannounced, an uninvited attended 1:20:11.640 --> 1:20:15.360 a session of Congress and brought the cage of rats 1:20:15.479 --> 1:20:23.200 to the assembly to highlight the uvan hosing condition. Hell yeah, 1:20:23.520 --> 1:20:25.680 I wish I could have been a fly on the 1:20:25.720 --> 1:20:31.840 wall or something to have witnessed that. Yeah, Like I mean, 1:20:32.040 --> 1:20:33.960 it's it's such an impressive thing, even just on a 1:20:34.000 --> 1:20:37.200 sort of like just like a logistical level of where 1:20:37.200 --> 1:20:40.439 did they get this cage of rats from? I mean 1:20:40.560 --> 1:20:42.960 clearly they got the rats from the housing. The housing 1:20:43.080 --> 1:20:45.280 was so bad. They had the rats run around everywhere, 1:20:45.439 --> 1:20:48.519 imagining like they we're we're not going to use kill trap, 1:20:48.560 --> 1:20:52.800 We're gonna use like capture traps. Specifically, sweet drop these 1:20:52.880 --> 1:20:57.600 rats on Congress like these rules. It's perfect. It's perfect, 1:20:58.479 --> 1:21:01.479 is that sort of energy that you helped him to 1:21:02.080 --> 1:21:05.000 create that group the legislators while he was in the army, 1:21:05.240 --> 1:21:08.720 you know. But what I mean because they you know, 1:21:09.040 --> 1:21:13.439 dropped some rats in Congress and they got arrested. The 1:21:13.520 --> 1:21:18.280 c h UM lost It's the Community Council learn Housing 1:21:18.720 --> 1:21:23.280 lost its funding, and Jesse Gray losssibility to pay his organizers. 1:21:23.400 --> 1:21:25.200 And just that line Alane just kind of stood out 1:21:25.240 --> 1:21:33.000 to me. Um that movement that is because these movements, 1:21:33.600 --> 1:21:35.400 you know, back in the day, they were serious about 1:21:35.439 --> 1:21:37.880 getting changed done, and they recognized that to get changed done, 1:21:37.920 --> 1:21:41.120 you need to have people who are full time involving 1:21:41.160 --> 1:21:44.080 getting that change done. It can be a part time thing. 1:21:45.320 --> 1:21:47.559 And so you know, these movements had these groups, they 1:21:47.600 --> 1:21:50.960 had like staff that you know, appaid to like put 1:21:51.000 --> 1:21:52.960 in the work, who could focus all their efforts and 1:21:53.000 --> 1:21:55.240 energy in it. And of course that took fundraise, and 1:21:55.240 --> 1:21:58.960 that took donations, that took support from their local communities 1:21:59.000 --> 1:22:03.160 to get that sort of of support that they needed 1:22:03.360 --> 1:22:06.680 to get things done. Um. I think right now we 1:22:06.720 --> 1:22:09.920 have is a lot of groups that often fizzle out 1:22:09.920 --> 1:22:12.200 to burn out before they could even get started because 1:22:13.920 --> 1:22:18.200 they don't have the resources to support their kind of 1:22:18.200 --> 1:22:21.160 effort that they will need to get things done when 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:26.240 everybody is working one to three jobs. Everybody's booms out 1:22:26.280 --> 1:22:30.200 and re stressed out. And this was my organizing experience 1:22:30.240 --> 1:22:33.960 at least. Um, it's very hard to get stuff done 1:22:33.960 --> 1:22:37.680 when everybody's tired all the time. It's very hard to 1:22:37.720 --> 1:22:40.599 get things off the ground when everybody is busy all 1:22:40.640 --> 1:22:43.559 the time. I think there's another kind of interesting thing 1:22:43.640 --> 1:22:45.800 here too, which is like, it's like, well because so 1:22:45.960 --> 1:22:48.280 like now we do have organizations where you can get 1:22:48.280 --> 1:22:51.679 paid to be full time staff, but it's it's it's 1:22:51.880 --> 1:22:55.000 NGO if yeah, it's NGO stuff. And and the thing 1:22:55.080 --> 1:22:59.560 I think is it's it's it became this question of 1:22:59.640 --> 1:23:02.440 sort of I mean a personally, it's about legal structures 1:23:02.479 --> 1:23:07.439 of how you could have like part part of I think, yeah, 1:23:07.479 --> 1:23:10.400 it's about the sort of legal requirements about who can 1:23:10.439 --> 1:23:13.479 actually have and what kinds of organizations and what you 1:23:13.479 --> 1:23:16.280 have to do to like have an organization that has 1:23:16.280 --> 1:23:19.240 a bank account for example. And then also I think 1:23:19.240 --> 1:23:21.519 there's this there's just kind of traffic traft people fill 1:23:21.560 --> 1:23:25.760 into where Okay, so you need funding, right, and you 1:23:25.800 --> 1:23:29.439 know the places you can get funding from usually tend 1:23:29.479 --> 1:23:31.639 to be either you're spending your entire time doing donation 1:23:31.680 --> 1:23:34.840 tribes or you're doing these grant stuff, and it's like, well, okay, 1:23:34.880 --> 1:23:36.840 the problem with like both of these basically a giant 1:23:36.840 --> 1:23:40.240 strings attached to them, and so like it sort of 1:23:40.240 --> 1:23:43.720 falls away from the like, hey, we're you know, sort 1:23:43.720 --> 1:23:46.680 of like paid revolutionary organizers and just degrades and some 1:23:46.800 --> 1:23:52.960 more enteo stuff exactly exactly, and the incentive structure completely changes. 1:23:54.600 --> 1:23:57.160 And of course they also potodynamics involved and you know, 1:23:57.240 --> 1:24:00.320 pervoices and paid organizers and that sort of thing. But 1:24:02.479 --> 1:24:05.519 I mean, if if, if you know, these these liberal 1:24:05.600 --> 1:24:08.120 organizations and getting all this fund and getting all these support, 1:24:08.200 --> 1:24:10.880 they're able to sustain themselves and keep pushing their cause, 1:24:11.640 --> 1:24:18.040 and all radical movements and militant movements are floundering. Again, 1:24:18.479 --> 1:24:23.480 where are we going with this? You know? Yeah. But afterwards, 1:24:23.960 --> 1:24:27.800 with the loss of funding, Weems left the cciege and 1:24:27.800 --> 1:24:30.679 then he joined the Central hallm Communitee for Self Defense 1:24:31.280 --> 1:24:35.599 and Solidarity the student protests and Columbia University. That committee 1:24:35.640 --> 1:24:38.879 would bring food and water to the students who occupy 1:24:38.920 --> 1:24:43.080 the buildings in the Columbia campus. And that's another important 1:24:43.360 --> 1:24:46.560 things to pointing to when I was talking about the 1:24:46.680 --> 1:24:49.400 less flashy work that goes into it. Because people are 1:24:49.400 --> 1:24:51.640 talking about general strike, because they have this vision of 1:24:51.640 --> 1:24:54.680 this general strike that everybody's you know, standing out in 1:24:54.720 --> 1:24:56.759 the streets and this big crowds out in the streets 1:24:56.760 --> 1:24:58.599 and we all refused to work, and it's rude, whe 1:24:58.640 --> 1:25:03.679 it's wonderful. But a general strike can only be pulled 1:25:03.680 --> 1:25:07.479 off if there's a strike funding place, if there's a 1:25:07.560 --> 1:25:13.160 a strike banking place where resources are available for people 1:25:13.200 --> 1:25:20.160 to draw from. Doesn't a strike, contrary to some perspectives 1:25:20.280 --> 1:25:24.599 or I guess some misled approaches, it's not when you 1:25:24.880 --> 1:25:27.320 tell your boss, hey, let me get a day off. 1:25:27.320 --> 1:25:31.439 It's like a grunge strike real quick. A strike is 1:25:31.560 --> 1:25:35.080 you refusal to work. It is unpaid. It is a 1:25:35.200 --> 1:25:43.400 risky endeavor. You don't just walk out without organized support 1:25:43.680 --> 1:25:50.519 from your fellow co workers at the very least. And 1:25:50.720 --> 1:25:52.920 part of what makes a strike successful, part of what 1:25:52.960 --> 1:25:55.240 makes a protest or a sitting or any kind of 1:25:55.280 --> 1:26:02.720 movement successful is having a network of care work instituted. 1:26:04.040 --> 1:26:06.280 So you see that the Central Hall and Community for 1:26:06.320 --> 1:26:12.120 Self Defense in solidarity with another movement, brought food and 1:26:12.160 --> 1:26:15.760 water to the students who are occupying the buildings, and 1:26:15.800 --> 1:26:18.679 because they brought food and water, those students are able 1:26:18.680 --> 1:26:23.960 to continue occupying, occupying those buildings and continue struggling for 1:26:24.080 --> 1:26:28.360 the causes they were struggling for. I don't think they're 1:26:28.439 --> 1:26:31.639 enough people, and not to just count people that are. 1:26:31.960 --> 1:26:33.479 If it doesn't fall in your garden, you don't after 1:26:33.520 --> 1:26:36.000 watch it. I think there needs to be more people 1:26:36.200 --> 1:26:41.240 who are going into that care work, which is marginalized 1:26:41.240 --> 1:26:43.960 because it's just alsociated with women and non men really, 1:26:44.439 --> 1:26:49.120 but it's it's something that we need to account for, something, 1:26:49.120 --> 1:26:53.760 it needs to be one of the principal arms of 1:26:53.920 --> 1:26:57.879 our strategy. Like like when I was doing tenant organizing, 1:26:58.000 --> 1:27:00.920 is like I did was like, what did I do? 1:27:01.000 --> 1:27:02.599 The tenant organized? Was like, well, okay, so I went 1:27:02.640 --> 1:27:04.360 around to put signs up on move chairs around, I 1:27:04.360 --> 1:27:07.960 took care of people's kids, like that was like feeling 1:27:08.000 --> 1:27:11.400 most of it. There's just a lot of like I 1:27:11.400 --> 1:27:13.840 don't know, I mean stuff like childcare like that, that 1:27:14.000 --> 1:27:17.960 kind of stuff. Like he's a vital part of any 1:27:18.040 --> 1:27:21.120 If if is a vital part of any political movement 1:27:21.160 --> 1:27:22.960 that's actually going to succeed, that you're trying to run 1:27:23.040 --> 1:27:25.240 and nobody wants to talk about or do it because 1:27:25.680 --> 1:27:31.000 it's not the like exciting like we're throwing a brick 1:27:31.040 --> 1:27:37.040 at a cop or whatever. Stuff. Yeah, exactly, I sat 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:39.760 no more postal notes. And this is the part where 1:27:39.760 --> 1:27:43.479 he changes his name. Not a Beams would associated himself 1:27:43.479 --> 1:27:47.800 with the Yoruba Temple in hard just organized by Nana 1:27:47.520 --> 1:27:52.000 Sir Jimani. The Detroit boone at Offumi was initiated in 1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:57.080 Cuba in the Lukumi Rights of the Ruba urgin. And 1:27:57.160 --> 1:28:00.479 he saw the West African religious and cultural heritage as 1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:03.479 a means of cultural self determination and peoplehood for African 1:28:03.479 --> 1:28:06.479 and science the United States. Recently there was a Netflix 1:28:06.800 --> 1:28:13.320 documentary about the ways that Euroban traditions have been kept 1:28:13.320 --> 1:28:16.400 alive across the quote and quote New World. And so 1:28:16.479 --> 1:28:20.360 you will see um in Cuba and in Brazil and 1:28:20.360 --> 1:28:22.240 in trying to be a goole, and in the US, 1:28:22.680 --> 1:28:28.640 the Uba practices and cultural components have just and sustained. 1:28:31.360 --> 1:28:33.960 And so when as who may established the Oruba Temple 1:28:34.040 --> 1:28:38.040 in New York, Starry in Detroit was the Detroit New 1:28:38.120 --> 1:28:46.200 York in Detroit, Um, I would say Detroit. He so 1:28:46.320 --> 1:28:53.320 it has an institution two, a naturalistic institution meant to 1:28:53.640 --> 1:28:57.759 advance the cause of the civil rights movement and liberation. 1:28:57.760 --> 1:29:02.280 Black liberation movement. You sort of African nines everything, you know, 1:29:02.400 --> 1:29:05.720 names and hats and clues and clubs and churches and 1:29:05.760 --> 1:29:08.080 so a lot of people in Beam generation and so 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:12.479 you see people like like Malcolm X adopting a new monica. 1:29:12.800 --> 1:29:17.479 They rejected, you know, these European names and adopted African 1:29:17.640 --> 1:29:20.400 or Arabic names. So when we're gonna see to the 1:29:20.479 --> 1:29:24.479 Urban Temple, he would no longer be Donald Weems. He 1:29:24.600 --> 1:29:28.559 took an away day name Kuasi meaning mail born on 1:29:28.560 --> 1:29:34.000 a Sunday, and the urban name Blagoon meaning wallord. And 1:29:34.040 --> 1:29:39.519 so that again ties into his whole passion for militancy 1:29:39.640 --> 1:29:45.720 because he is basically a wall lord born born on 1:29:45.760 --> 1:29:48.200 a Sunday. I don't know what she would as a 1:29:48.240 --> 1:29:53.760 kind of a metal Yeah, it's like now great to fight, 1:29:56.800 --> 1:30:00.400 fresh out the room, all kind of thing, but pretty 1:30:00.400 --> 1:30:08.519 sick exactly exactly. But you know, along with finding his 1:30:08.560 --> 1:30:11.200 cultural beer in the Uruba Temple, he got his Black 1:30:11.240 --> 1:30:16.040 pap politics of revolution black nationalism from the Black Paul 1:30:16.120 --> 1:30:21.679 movement the nineteen sixties. Black Pole movement. They realized that, 1:30:21.800 --> 1:30:26.160 you know, black liberation is not possible without the overthrow 1:30:26.200 --> 1:30:31.800 of the US constitutional order and capitalist economic system. And 1:30:32.240 --> 1:30:35.639 they also recognized and a significant number of black Milton's 1:30:36.080 --> 1:30:40.479 sixties Black Power movement recognized that the classical Marxism Leninism 1:30:40.640 --> 1:30:42.880 was not a free work that they identified with. It 1:30:42.960 --> 1:30:45.839 is something that all of them did adopt an adapt 1:30:45.960 --> 1:30:50.080 but it's not something that they just consumed whole sale. 1:30:53.760 --> 1:30:57.000 And I think that's honestly some nuance that is often 1:30:57.040 --> 1:31:02.120 obscured when people take this sort of blindly nonstylegic approach 1:31:02.200 --> 1:31:07.280 to pass you know, movements. Because even even back then, 1:31:07.280 --> 1:31:10.080 even in the early stages Black Power movement, there was 1:31:10.240 --> 1:31:12.680 you know, political diversity in terms of the aims and 1:31:12.720 --> 1:31:17.400 intentions and beliefs, um different perspectives, even within the same 1:31:17.520 --> 1:31:23.400 political philosophy, um different approaches. The the West Coast Black 1:31:23.439 --> 1:31:27.320 Panthers and the East Coast Black Panthers took different approaches. 1:31:28.200 --> 1:31:31.880 The West Coast Black Panthers were more class focused, whereas 1:31:31.880 --> 1:31:33.840 the East Coast Lack Panthers were more Pan Africa and 1:31:33.880 --> 1:31:36.439 the approach, and that honestly caused a lot of tension 1:31:36.520 --> 1:31:41.639 between the two of them them were inspired you across 1:31:41.640 --> 1:31:44.040 the board, but the influence of Marxism, the Chinese and 1:31:44.080 --> 1:31:48.080 Cuban revolutions, by other national liberation movements in Africa, Asia 1:31:48.080 --> 1:31:51.120 and the America's because this was a time of course 1:31:51.160 --> 1:31:53.479 where a lot of movements, a lot of countries were 1:31:53.520 --> 1:32:00.200 getting independence from Britain and France and all together colonized US. 1:32:03.240 --> 1:32:04.880 This is also a time where more and more people 1:32:05.360 --> 1:32:08.759 were you know, building their criticisms and the racism present 1:32:08.800 --> 1:32:12.120 in the old Left, and so they wanted a theoretical 1:32:12.200 --> 1:32:16.720 vehicle that that gave them the self determination, the ideological 1:32:16.720 --> 1:32:20.320 self determination that they needed. Like they were with the 1:32:20.400 --> 1:32:23.200 whole civilrights movement, they were fighting within it, but they 1:32:23.240 --> 1:32:25.799 wanted more than what the civil rights movement was offering. 1:32:25.800 --> 1:32:28.360 They wanted more than just civil rights between within a 1:32:28.400 --> 1:32:33.400 settler colonial state. And they would not going to sit 1:32:33.439 --> 1:32:35.640 back and just be satisfied with non violence as a 1:32:35.640 --> 1:32:39.400 way of life. All of them sold the civil rights 1:32:39.439 --> 1:32:43.600 movement as well as as something integrationists or something pro assimilationist, 1:32:44.080 --> 1:32:50.680 whereas they wanted something more insurgent, more revolutionary, and so 1:32:50.800 --> 1:32:54.200 you know, they brought together all these different things, um, 1:32:54.360 --> 1:32:59.000 Black nationalism and self determination, Marxian critiques of capitalism and 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:01.680 a direct action proved that was you know, in the 1:33:01.680 --> 1:33:10.920 civilrights movement from the beginning, and so Blagoon became a revolutionary. 1:33:11.320 --> 1:33:14.599 He began to read literature by the autobiography of Malcom 1:33:14.800 --> 1:33:21.400 X and Robert Williams, spoke negroes with guns, and he 1:33:21.560 --> 1:33:26.760 also learned from the leaders that surrounded him, like the 1:33:26.840 --> 1:33:29.679 leader of the n c c UM and the leaders 1:33:29.760 --> 1:33:35.720 of of you know, the Black Panthers. What do you 1:33:35.720 --> 1:33:42.120 recognized someone long inspired by militancy is a black liberation 1:33:42.400 --> 1:33:51.680 only come about through protracted gorilla warfare. I don't think 1:33:51.720 --> 1:33:54.360 you have to go over like the origins of Black 1:33:55.400 --> 1:33:59.960 Panthers and detail um. But just to summarize, the Black 1:34:00.000 --> 1:34:04.000 Panther Party was founded in Oakland, California in response to 1:34:04.120 --> 1:34:10.679 the abuses of the police UM upon residents of Oakland, 1:34:11.920 --> 1:34:15.120 and so after Huey Newton, when the founders a Black 1:34:15.160 --> 1:34:18.360 Panther Party and one of his comrades got on a 1:34:18.360 --> 1:34:23.360 shootout with the Oakland Police Department and survived UM and 1:34:23.400 --> 1:34:28.280 one of the officers actually got fatally wounded. Newton basically 1:34:28.280 --> 1:34:31.479 became a national hero to the only England black youth 1:34:32.800 --> 1:34:39.000 who you know, like you can't even conceive that this 1:34:39.080 --> 1:34:43.320 guy fought the state and won. He had like a 1:34:43.360 --> 1:34:46.360 small win, but he won. And so that's when you 1:34:46.400 --> 1:34:51.599 see like the whole Free Huey movement kickoff, because you know, 1:34:51.640 --> 1:34:53.760 he was charged with phrase murder for his name the 1:34:53.800 --> 1:34:59.800 cop he shot, and Free hue was the Irallian cry, 1:35:00.360 --> 1:35:04.040 Black Pole and La circles. Eventually, BPP came to New 1:35:04.080 --> 1:35:10.160 York in some of the nine and I mean people 1:35:10.400 --> 1:35:13.520 try to kick off Black Panther Party New York beforehand 1:35:13.920 --> 1:35:17.439 in sixty six, but it didn't work out. So this 1:35:18.360 --> 1:35:23.200 new Black Panther Party in New York kicked off and 1:35:24.640 --> 1:35:29.479 began to build support in the hundreds. The same month 1:35:29.520 --> 1:35:32.519 that Dr King was assassinated, he had a lot of 1:35:32.600 --> 1:35:38.640 members of the b PP coming together two sort of 1:35:38.720 --> 1:35:42.720 figure out a direction because although they may have been 1:35:42.760 --> 1:35:45.160 critical of the Souf Rights movement, the lost Dr King 1:35:45.280 --> 1:35:48.800 was a major blue to everyone because even if they 1:35:48.800 --> 1:35:54.839 disagree with him, he was still an inspiration. So Bobby 1:35:54.840 --> 1:35:57.080 CeAl and Cathain Cleeveld came to New York and they 1:35:57.080 --> 1:36:03.000 appointed eighteen year old, eighteen year World ESSENCC member Judon 1:36:03.160 --> 1:36:06.519 Ford as acting Captain of Defense of the BPP. And 1:36:06.560 --> 1:36:08.120 that's another thing a lot of people forget, like these 1:36:08.160 --> 1:36:12.479 people are young, really young. Fred Hamilton died when he 1:36:12.560 --> 1:36:19.000 was twenty one, assassinated, of course, and so it's like 1:36:20.439 --> 1:36:26.320 an inspiration honestly, and also like a rallying cry for 1:36:26.439 --> 1:36:32.920 all young people who feel disimportant, disenchanted, disheartened by all 1:36:32.960 --> 1:36:36.040 the different aspects of collapse that us surrounded us, you know, 1:36:36.080 --> 1:36:39.920 like we can stand up and fight back. But anyway, 1:36:39.960 --> 1:36:42.920 so Judon Ford became the acting Captain Defense of the 1:36:42.960 --> 1:36:45.439 BPP of the East Coast and he was soon joined 1:36:45.439 --> 1:36:50.080 by David Brothers and they found the the BPP in Brooklyn. 1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:55.719 In National leadership of the BPP also sent Ron penny 1:36:55.720 --> 1:36:59.680 Well to give directions to New York Chapter, and so 1:37:00.160 --> 1:37:02.960 Pennyell was there and he was involved, and he became 1:37:02.960 --> 1:37:06.440 a captain in the ranks, and he was very grassroots 1:37:06.439 --> 1:37:10.120 in his approach. The Harlem branch of the New York 1:37:10.200 --> 1:37:14.080 Chapter will be founded by Blue Bomber Shakur, who was 1:37:14.200 --> 1:37:19.600 the son of Malcolm X associates Suladin Shaku, and that 1:37:19.840 --> 1:37:22.800 same Saladin Shako was He served as a mentor and 1:37:22.840 --> 1:37:24.920 a servid father for many of the members of the 1:37:24.920 --> 1:37:30.000 New York of New York's Black Panther Party, and you know, 1:37:30.040 --> 1:37:32.320 all these different people and all these different groups and 1:37:32.360 --> 1:37:35.400 stuff for mixing and molding and melding and getting together. 1:37:37.080 --> 1:37:40.400 And eventually the New York chapter the BPP would grow 1:37:40.439 --> 1:37:42.920 to become among the largest, if not the largest, in 1:37:42.960 --> 1:37:50.559 the entire organization, but approximately five hundred members. So went 1:37:50.640 --> 1:37:53.400 Bytagoon found out the BPP was organized in New York. 1:37:53.960 --> 1:37:56.760 He went and he joined. He felt, you know, like 1:37:56.920 --> 1:38:01.000 empowered by the Black Panther Party's ten point program. And 1:38:01.040 --> 1:38:04.880 for those who don't know, the ten point program was, 1:38:05.360 --> 1:38:09.559 you know, a pretty straightforward. One. We want freedom. Two 1:38:09.640 --> 1:38:12.519 we want full employment. Three you want an end to 1:38:12.560 --> 1:38:15.280 the robbery by the white man of our black community. 1:38:15.439 --> 1:38:20.080 Four we want decent housing. Five want education that exposes 1:38:20.120 --> 1:38:23.680 the true nature of this decadent American society, teaches us 1:38:23.680 --> 1:38:27.519 a true history, not rule in present day society. Six 1:38:28.360 --> 1:38:31.920 you want black men to be exempt from military service. Seven. 1:38:32.000 --> 1:38:34.320 We want an immediate end to police brutality and mood 1:38:34.320 --> 1:38:37.280 of black people. Eight you want freedom for all black men. 1:38:37.320 --> 1:38:40.960 Helen federal, state, county, and city prisons and jails nine, 1:38:41.320 --> 1:38:44.000 you want all black people to be brought to child 1:38:44.640 --> 1:38:46.920 to be tried in a court by a jury of 1:38:46.960 --> 1:38:52.040 their peers from black communities because at the time, and 1:38:52.200 --> 1:38:56.759 I still exists today UM and even affected UM during 1:38:56.800 --> 1:38:59.960 tours in being tried for these things and some as 1:39:00.040 --> 1:39:03.360 single black face, and the entire jury it's entirely white, 1:39:03.560 --> 1:39:07.800 middle class upper class three members. And lastly ten, we 1:39:07.920 --> 1:39:16.160 want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And 1:39:16.200 --> 1:39:21.200 so Balagoon was drawn to this. He's identified with the 1:39:21.280 --> 1:39:27.200 organization's Maoist axiom that political power comes from the barrel 1:39:27.240 --> 1:39:32.080 of the gun um and was inspired by you know 1:39:32.240 --> 1:39:36.080 the way us that the Chinese Revolution inspired the Black 1:39:36.120 --> 1:39:41.599 Panther Party. However, the structure from the beginning, the structure 1:39:41.600 --> 1:39:44.840 of the Black Panther Party did pose some challenges for 1:39:45.520 --> 1:39:50.040 Balagoon and it really only got worse from there to 1:39:50.160 --> 1:39:54.439 The Black Panther Party was structured with the National Center 1:39:54.479 --> 1:39:57.559 Community the n SEC as the highest decision making body 1:39:57.560 --> 1:40:03.599 and the entire organization across the entire country. Even though 1:40:03.880 --> 1:40:07.000 the New York chapter was the largest in the entire 1:40:07.400 --> 1:40:13.320 UM Party, the ant C was concentrated in Oakland, which 1:40:13.360 --> 1:40:16.439 is where you know, the party was founded, and so 1:40:16.800 --> 1:40:19.840 most of the body was associated with people who knew 1:40:19.920 --> 1:40:24.599 Hugh Newton. There was a whole chain of command and 1:40:27.920 --> 1:40:31.080 like I said, that whole style and structure of governor 1:40:31.200 --> 1:40:35.839 speaking a factor and Baltagoon's attraction to anti authority in politics. 1:40:35.880 --> 1:40:38.000 And of course he was not alone in being critical 1:40:38.240 --> 1:40:42.160 of the structure of the party. John Cox, Shanty Allston 1:40:42.479 --> 1:40:45.160 learned to come to it and many others but also 1:40:45.240 --> 1:40:49.639 developed similar critiques, drawing them from a similar direction. Because 1:40:49.680 --> 1:40:54.880 Bagon had this experience organized and beforehand, and he recognized 1:40:57.640 --> 1:41:00.160 the good that you know, the party was doing, but 1:41:00.240 --> 1:41:02.919 he also taken issue with how the party was structured. 1:41:05.400 --> 1:41:07.280 So when he got involved, you know, he was ready 1:41:07.320 --> 1:41:10.360 to participate and work with oppressed black communities and around 1:41:10.400 --> 1:41:15.439 these basic issues. Um For example, in September nine, the 1:41:15.479 --> 1:41:19.200 Black Panther Party members participating in a community take over 1:41:19.400 --> 1:41:22.880 of Lincoln Hospital, which at the time was dilapidated and 1:41:22.960 --> 1:41:28.080 disinvested and was not able to save the predominantly black 1:41:28.120 --> 1:41:31.719 and Latino residents. As all Bronx and so the BPP 1:41:31.840 --> 1:41:33.960 in New York would work with the Puerto Rican Young 1:41:34.000 --> 1:41:36.880 Lords and the Professional Government of the Republic of New 1:41:36.920 --> 1:41:40.559 Africa to take over and reform the detox program at 1:41:40.560 --> 1:41:47.200 Lincoln Hospital. And that boldness again so inspirational, because how 1:41:47.200 --> 1:41:51.080 many of us are willing today two just like so 1:41:51.240 --> 1:41:54.840 boldly this walking and take over these broken institutions, to 1:41:54.880 --> 1:41:56.479 put them in the hands of the community, to make 1:41:56.479 --> 1:42:01.320 them whole, hopeful institutions for the people. I think we 1:42:01.360 --> 1:42:06.120 need more of that boldness. So New York Panthers were 1:42:06.320 --> 1:42:09.280 prey much involved in tennant organizing as well, which is 1:42:09.439 --> 1:42:14.639 right up Ballagoon's alley. Um oh, I guess we could 1:42:14.640 --> 1:42:20.759 call him rat catcher um. And they were also involved 1:42:20.760 --> 1:42:23.920 in fights for community control over the school system and 1:42:24.000 --> 1:42:37.080 the police. Eventually, Baldagoon and another Panther, Richard Harris, would 1:42:37.080 --> 1:42:41.920 be arrested in February nine on bank robbery charges in 1:42:41.960 --> 1:42:46.360 New York, New Jersey. On April second, n sixty nine, 1:42:46.439 --> 1:42:48.320 less than one year after the founding of the New 1:42:48.400 --> 1:42:51.559 York chapter of the b PP, twenty one Panther leaders 1:42:51.560 --> 1:42:55.599 and organizers, including Balagoon and Harris, were united twelve arrested 1:42:55.640 --> 1:42:59.800 and conspiracy charges and a thirty count indictment and of 1:43:00.080 --> 1:43:02.559 was This case became known as New York Panther one. 1:43:03.560 --> 1:43:06.519 The charges included conspiracy to bomb the New York Botanical 1:43:06.560 --> 1:43:10.400 gardens and police stations and two assassin police officers. And 1:43:10.479 --> 1:43:12.960 after the arrest, mostly defendants were released on a hundred 1:43:13.000 --> 1:43:19.400 tho dollars bail, but Blagoon was held without bail. So 1:43:19.400 --> 1:43:23.040 they were being charged for this like claim that they 1:43:23.040 --> 1:43:27.120 were going to ambush New York police. Um based on 1:43:27.439 --> 1:43:32.880 the testimony of one nineteen year old Panther member, Juan Byrd, 1:43:33.920 --> 1:43:37.479 who had been beaten by the police in order to 1:43:38.080 --> 1:43:41.240 you know, make a statement that was favorable to the prosecution, 1:43:42.680 --> 1:43:45.320 like beaten as an her mom pulled up to the 1:43:45.320 --> 1:43:49.600 police station to hear her daughter screaming visibly beaten with 1:43:49.640 --> 1:43:52.519 a black eyes, swollen lip, bruises on her face, everything, 1:43:55.240 --> 1:43:59.880 and so um Ballagoon and the other person who was 1:44:00.000 --> 1:44:03.120 be in charge with this attempt to ambush the police, 1:44:03.520 --> 1:44:07.240 who was a guy named Odinga, and he had escaped 1:44:07.320 --> 1:44:15.880 and went under ground, but Laguna Dot but then ended 1:44:15.960 --> 1:44:20.040 up going fleeing the United States, settling down in Algeria 1:44:20.520 --> 1:44:25.000 and all that jazz. But Blagoon not only was he 1:44:25.120 --> 1:44:27.200 charged with all the others were charged with, but he 1:44:27.240 --> 1:44:32.799 was separated from the others and face charges in New Jersey. 1:44:32.880 --> 1:44:35.000 All the others where in New York as and he 1:44:35.080 --> 1:44:38.479 was split in behind bars for two years. The other 1:44:38.520 --> 1:44:45.160 defendants whore acquitted. And as a result of you know, 1:44:45.439 --> 1:44:49.840 all this legal battling and maneuvering, since a lot of 1:44:49.840 --> 1:44:52.280 the key organizers and leaders as a New York Plat 1:44:52.280 --> 1:44:59.000 Panther Party were incarcerated, the organization was pretty badly crippled, 1:45:00.240 --> 1:45:06.760 and as with its you know, activities and general momentum, 1:45:06.800 --> 1:45:11.360 I think that's that's that's something that the Planted Party 1:45:11.360 --> 1:45:14.960 had to struggle with very often, having it's it's key members, 1:45:15.040 --> 1:45:21.000 it's it's leaders and and and members incarcerated and charged 1:45:21.120 --> 1:45:26.759 and facing trial. And so as a result, Panther Party 1:45:26.840 --> 1:45:31.320 was almost for almost its entire existence, was basically fighting 1:45:31.479 --> 1:45:33.800 charges and trying to get its members out of jail 1:45:33.840 --> 1:45:35.880 and this, that and the other. It's a lot of 1:45:35.880 --> 1:45:41.160 its efforts ended up treating towards that. So I think 1:45:41.680 --> 1:45:43.800 seeing now the New York Plant Party was crippled, I 1:45:43.800 --> 1:45:48.640 think it highlights the importance of distribution and decentralization when 1:45:48.680 --> 1:45:52.120 it comes to organizing it. How I the importance of 1:45:52.400 --> 1:45:56.160 as the future Stabolitionists of the Americans say, moving like 1:45:56.240 --> 1:45:59.960 my core is a my core is basically a mute 1:46:00.000 --> 1:46:04.760 world relationship between fungi and plant roots. So they move 1:46:04.840 --> 1:46:07.320 nutrients seen plants they're connected to, and they basically create 1:46:07.360 --> 1:46:12.799 this kind of fungal network that that spreads across an ecosystem, 1:46:12.800 --> 1:46:15.920 and it prevents researchers from basically able to see where 1:46:16.120 --> 1:46:19.679 they begin where they end. They you know, they grow slowly. 1:46:20.560 --> 1:46:23.240 Sometimes they pop up above ground there's like mushrooms and stuff, 1:46:23.240 --> 1:46:28.720 but primarily they exist underground. And so what the our 1:46:28.760 --> 1:46:31.599 future establishers are talking about is basically creating a movement 1:46:31.640 --> 1:46:36.320 that is primarily underground that spreads and is interconnected and 1:46:37.320 --> 1:46:41.599 cannot be pinned down with such a clear pinned down 1:46:41.680 --> 1:46:45.400 or easily infiltrated like how the party was able to 1:46:45.840 --> 1:46:50.200 with such a clear you know, structure and the chain 1:46:50.280 --> 1:46:58.280 of command. So basically move like mccres A, work from 1:46:58.400 --> 1:47:01.080 the ground or underground and work for the roots, work 1:47:01.160 --> 1:47:08.479 from the roots MHM. Eventually, after most of his comrades 1:47:08.520 --> 1:47:12.680 were acquitted, Balagum pleaded guilty to the charges that he 1:47:12.960 --> 1:47:16.519 and somebody else did attempt to shoot the police officers 1:47:17.479 --> 1:47:20.400 so then he became the only one of twenty one 1:47:20.400 --> 1:47:29.400 original defendants who was actually convicted. So that was going on. Um. 1:47:29.439 --> 1:47:31.280 You know, while the New York plant the case was 1:47:31.320 --> 1:47:39.640 being played out, Balagoon's politics were starting to shift revolutionary 1:47:39.720 --> 1:47:43.160 nationalism and democratic and the democratic centralism of the party 1:47:43.280 --> 1:47:50.479 were beginning to if you healthy critique, I would say, 1:47:50.960 --> 1:47:54.520 and Balagoon is starting to shift more towards anti authoritarian politics. 1:47:56.400 --> 1:47:59.799 At the same time, about's going through that political journey. 1:48:01.040 --> 1:48:04.439 More generally speaking, the New York Black Panther Party was 1:48:04.560 --> 1:48:07.720 getting to feel disenchanted with how the national leadership was 1:48:07.760 --> 1:48:12.320 handling things. Like the tension had already existed because of 1:48:12.360 --> 1:48:15.679 the differences in focus, you know what, the New York 1:48:15.680 --> 1:48:19.559 Panthers being more Pan African and the Oakland Panthers being 1:48:19.680 --> 1:48:26.840 more class focused. But one of the after one of 1:48:26.840 --> 1:48:33.880 the leaders of the Panther Party, Geronimo Pratt, had been 1:48:33.920 --> 1:48:40.360 purged from leadership for his coute que counter revolutionary behavior, 1:48:41.800 --> 1:48:47.160 um tension started to build because Pratt was seen as 1:48:47.160 --> 1:48:49.200 a hero to a lot of members of the New 1:48:49.280 --> 1:48:54.960 York UM Party because he had been very much parliamentary, 1:48:55.600 --> 1:48:59.200 he had been very much paramilitarily organized, and he had 1:48:59.240 --> 1:49:03.760 taken it up upon himselves the train Panther members in 1:49:03.840 --> 1:49:08.360 paramilitary tactics. And so after he was you know, push 1:49:08.360 --> 1:49:13.880 from the leadership um and a few other leaders were 1:49:13.880 --> 1:49:25.800 also pouged. The New York Panthers began to feel disconnected 1:49:25.840 --> 1:49:28.800 from the from the national because the whole reason they 1:49:28.800 --> 1:49:31.240 were attracted to the Panther Party is because of this 1:49:31.240 --> 1:49:34.120 this image of armed Panthers patrolling against the police of 1:49:34.400 --> 1:49:40.439 you know, underground perrilla warfare um, and so, you know, 1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:43.080 the New York Panther movement was very much associated with that. 1:49:45.920 --> 1:49:51.680 But once they saw the sort of pudges they were 1:49:51.720 --> 1:49:54.720 taken place, um, some of which they looked up to. 1:49:55.960 --> 1:50:00.400 When they saw that the national leadership sent these other 1:50:00.439 --> 1:50:02.800 guys Robert Bay and told on Stoli into New York 1:50:02.800 --> 1:50:07.759 to assume leadership of the chapter to basically important leaders 1:50:07.800 --> 1:50:10.759 from outside movement, rather than sort of bring up new ones, 1:50:11.760 --> 1:50:18.920 you know, from within the local community. It basically work 1:50:19.000 --> 1:50:21.920 to destabilize what the New York Panthers were working for. 1:50:23.000 --> 1:50:27.240 Because when these guys rolled up, they had a very autocratic, 1:50:27.439 --> 1:50:30.559 hierarchical style of leadership, unlike you know, the Pennywell guy 1:50:30.600 --> 1:50:36.080 who was very much grassroots in his approach. And I 1:50:36.080 --> 1:50:40.720 mean even as Sata Suku had like basically critiqued the 1:50:40.800 --> 1:50:43.040 quality of the West Coast leaders sent to New York 1:50:43.439 --> 1:50:47.840 when she spoke about how Robert Bay and Jolly, who 1:50:47.880 --> 1:50:51.640 are from the Rest Coast, had a very aggressive, and 1:50:53.560 --> 1:50:56.040 she said, a belligerent way of talking and dealing with people. 1:50:58.720 --> 1:51:02.439 And so that really what built up towards UM from 1:51:02.520 --> 1:51:07.600 simple initial differences of opinions and misunderstanding leaning towards the 1:51:07.640 --> 1:51:11.320 dissolution of the connection between the national leadership and the 1:51:11.320 --> 1:51:16.360 New York Chapter. The New York Chapter wanted to focus 1:51:16.560 --> 1:51:22.040 on things of a more national orientation. UM. They wanted 1:51:22.120 --> 1:51:26.559 to work on the tenant issues that they had started 1:51:26.600 --> 1:51:31.719 with in the first place, but the nationally appointed leadership 1:51:32.920 --> 1:51:36.160 was not interested in tenant issues and they don't want 1:51:36.240 --> 1:51:39.840 to play so much focus on on on you know, 1:51:40.200 --> 1:51:46.920 nationalists oriented issues Pan African, its US. And so when 1:51:47.040 --> 1:51:51.840 you know, these groups were reassigned from their tenant organizing 1:51:52.320 --> 1:51:54.519 to the s the people programs that were working in 1:51:54.560 --> 1:51:58.000 the West Coast that was also presented by the New 1:51:58.040 --> 1:52:00.599 York Panthers. Because the New York pan Douse they were 1:52:01.200 --> 1:52:03.320 you know, working on certain things. They had like tenant 1:52:03.400 --> 1:52:05.880 organizing behind their belt, and they had like these different 1:52:05.920 --> 1:52:08.840 mutual league projects and stuff going on, these you know, 1:52:09.080 --> 1:52:13.559 sort of support and solidarity things going on, and to 1:52:13.640 --> 1:52:16.160 be toold from the outside, Hey, stop doing this tenant 1:52:16.200 --> 1:52:18.360 organizing and stuff. Do these things as working where we 1:52:18.400 --> 1:52:23.080 are coming from. It didn't play out well yeah, I 1:52:23.080 --> 1:52:25.479 mean the last time in Or told me to do that, 1:52:25.520 --> 1:52:29.639 I left. I literally had this happen to me, which 1:52:29.680 --> 1:52:36.240 just like no, yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't work O. 1:52:37.880 --> 1:52:40.120 Not to mention. And I mean this was a criticism 1:52:40.280 --> 1:52:42.559 I mentioned earlier about who. A lot of the focus 1:52:42.680 --> 1:52:45.880 ended up being towards um getting people out of jail 1:52:45.960 --> 1:52:50.360 and you know, dealing with legal defense. One thing about 1:52:50.400 --> 1:52:53.439 we criticized was the fact that the national leadership selected 1:52:53.600 --> 1:52:55.400 leader to him and who would be released from view 1:52:55.960 --> 1:52:58.679 m like, it didn't matter you know what the round 1:52:58.760 --> 1:53:02.080 and file or fell prisoners of war or who had 1:53:02.120 --> 1:53:05.360 the Lewis Bill or whatever, what about it is what 1:53:05.400 --> 1:53:08.680 the leadership, who the leadership wanted to be chosen to 1:53:08.720 --> 1:53:12.479 be allowed. And of course it should also be noted 1:53:12.520 --> 1:53:15.120 that parts of what was building these tensions and building 1:53:15.120 --> 1:53:19.240 these divisions quo until prove, and you know, the FBI 1:53:19.479 --> 1:53:22.880 working at every separate the way to foment divisions and 1:53:23.320 --> 1:53:25.960 fire up divisions within the national leadership, within the New 1:53:26.000 --> 1:53:28.519 York Chapter, even within the New York plants, the twenty 1:53:28.520 --> 1:53:31.799 one defendants. So you can't you can't reach that aspect 1:53:31.840 --> 1:53:35.680 of it. Yes we can. We can criticize these organizations 1:53:35.680 --> 1:53:38.120 and these movements for their missteps. We also to keep 1:53:38.120 --> 1:53:40.439 in mind the context that they were in, the tensions 1:53:40.439 --> 1:53:42.120 they were facing, and the fact that they were being 1:53:42.160 --> 1:53:47.479 openly assaulted and clandestinely assaulted by the US government and 1:53:47.880 --> 1:53:52.439 all you know, angles at all corners. I think sometimes 1:53:52.439 --> 1:53:54.920 it's like they both kind of fit together in that, 1:53:55.920 --> 1:53:59.880 Like if you look at what the U. S. Intelligence 1:54:01.200 --> 1:54:04.800 Services were good at, right the very the very specific 1:54:04.880 --> 1:54:07.400 thing they'd become incredibly good at because they've been doing 1:54:07.400 --> 1:54:10.400 it for you know, like basically since the end of 1:54:10.439 --> 1:54:12.360 World War Two, is that they were really really good 1:54:12.439 --> 1:54:15.240 at hammering down these like these sort of like centralized 1:54:15.240 --> 1:54:18.920 party apparatus. Is like that's how they basically turned cpu 1:54:19.040 --> 1:54:23.200 SA from like genuinely really powerful political movement the thirties 1:54:23.240 --> 1:54:25.320 to like by the fifties, it's entirely run by like 1:54:25.360 --> 1:54:28.559 the FBI, and so yeah, it's like this is this 1:54:28.640 --> 1:54:31.120 is kind of mismatch here because it's like, on the 1:54:31.120 --> 1:54:33.560 one hand, you're suffering incredibly heavy repression, but then also 1:54:33.600 --> 1:54:35.880 it's like the political form that you're taking is a 1:54:35.880 --> 1:54:39.400 form that the U. S. State has gotten really really 1:54:39.440 --> 1:54:42.640 good at fighting. So the two issues sort of like 1:54:42.680 --> 1:54:49.360 compound each other exactly exactly. And so of course, like 1:54:49.440 --> 1:54:52.320 it's not like the rank and file that necessarily just 1:54:52.320 --> 1:54:54.440 going to roll over fun that these things happen, right, 1:54:54.640 --> 1:54:56.680 So they were trying their best to like submit these 1:54:56.680 --> 1:55:02.200 criticisms to the national leadership through the like Black Panther newspaper, 1:55:03.520 --> 1:55:09.600 but eventually the New York Panther twenty one defendants took 1:55:09.600 --> 1:55:13.720 a public position and there was seen as critical of 1:55:13.800 --> 1:55:17.200 the national leadership when they sent an open letter to 1:55:17.240 --> 1:55:24.640 the Weather Underground, which they published on the nineteenth January, 1:55:25.080 --> 1:55:26.600 those who don't know the weather on the ground was 1:55:26.640 --> 1:55:32.960 basically a bunch of um white radicals who basically we're 1:55:33.000 --> 1:55:35.000 trying to fight the U. S. Government by doing a 1:55:35.000 --> 1:55:39.320 bunch of bollins and fighting souldarity with national liberation movements 1:55:39.360 --> 1:55:44.400 like in Vietnam. Yeah, the stuff ranges from like pretty funny, 1:55:44.480 --> 1:55:47.840 like they kept blowing up the statue for the Haymarket cops, 1:55:48.080 --> 1:55:51.960 to like, what are you guys doing? It's it was. 1:55:52.000 --> 1:55:57.040 It was a very weird organization. Yeah, yeah, quite quite 1:55:57.120 --> 1:56:02.640 quite the characters and so um. The Open Letter applauded 1:56:02.800 --> 1:56:06.040 the insludent actions because Cubman New York Party was very 1:56:06.120 --> 1:56:09.760 much intact militant sort of stuff. So the Open Letter 1:56:09.920 --> 1:56:13.840 applauded the insludent actions of the Weather Underground and acknowledged 1:56:13.880 --> 1:56:15.920 them as part of the Van God of the revolutionary 1:56:15.920 --> 1:56:19.600 movements United States. They never mentioned the national leadership of 1:56:19.640 --> 1:56:22.880 the b p P, but they also critiqued like kind 1:56:22.880 --> 1:56:27.960 of like a a subtle sort of unspoken kind of thing, 1:56:28.400 --> 1:56:32.560 shady kind of through shade. Basically, they were like critical 1:56:32.720 --> 1:56:38.200 of self proclaimed a vanguard parties that abandoned the action 1:56:38.280 --> 1:56:41.200 to the radical and the ground struggle and the political prisoners. 1:56:41.480 --> 1:56:43.120 I mean, that's as open as you could be with 1:56:43.200 --> 1:56:48.960 the actually saying. But yeah, so of course, and Babdagoon 1:56:49.120 --> 1:56:53.760 was you know, he agreed with this criticism. And so 1:56:54.040 --> 1:56:57.400 because the national leadership had you know, wasn't you know 1:56:57.440 --> 1:57:03.240 actually attacking the occupational forces of the la Ploma state anymore. Um. 1:57:03.360 --> 1:57:05.560 And because you know, a lot of money being collected 1:57:05.640 --> 1:57:08.080 was going towards Bill, and a lot of people were 1:57:08.080 --> 1:57:10.000 sycriticizing the fact that some of the leaders who were 1:57:10.000 --> 1:57:16.200 beginning to live pretty comfortably while a lot of the 1:57:16.440 --> 1:57:19.600 rank and file was based we were sitting out in jail. 1:57:20.960 --> 1:57:24.320 Once the letter went out, new Turn basically expelled the 1:57:24.320 --> 1:57:30.080 Plant and basically declared the Plant at one enemies of 1:57:30.160 --> 1:57:35.800 the people. Jesus. Yeah, a lot of them, and not 1:57:35.880 --> 1:57:39.200 just Plant the twenty one, but also the New York 1:57:39.240 --> 1:57:42.960 EPP leaders in general, just all of them branded enemies 1:57:42.960 --> 1:57:46.680 of the people. Um. Some of the defendants like Richard 1:57:46.960 --> 1:57:53.520 to Ruben Moore and set Away Table and a few 1:57:53.520 --> 1:57:57.680 others also ended up going to Algeria late in the month. 1:57:57.800 --> 1:58:00.560 Members of the New York Black Panther Party who will 1:58:00.600 --> 1:58:03.040 the press conference and basically equal for the purge of 1:58:03.080 --> 1:58:06.320 human Newton and the Planta Party chief of staff David 1:58:06.400 --> 1:58:10.600 Hilliard and the formation of a new National Central Committee 1:58:11.920 --> 1:58:15.480 and basically, like I said, officially split from the National Organization. 1:58:16.480 --> 1:58:18.360 I want to find interesting able with that approach to 1:58:18.440 --> 1:58:21.240 it is they basically fought fire with fire, for one, 1:58:21.880 --> 1:58:23.600 so you're like, oh, you want to call us enemy 1:58:23.600 --> 1:58:25.520 of the people, we were going to call you enemies 1:58:25.560 --> 1:58:29.760 of the people. And then on top of that, you 1:58:29.800 --> 1:58:31.919 also have to deal with the fact that their solution 1:58:32.040 --> 1:58:36.400 to the problem of the National Central Committee being too 1:58:36.400 --> 1:58:40.160 big for their bridges and interfere and with their grassroots 1:58:40.160 --> 1:58:43.839 politics was like, you know, we needed a new National 1:58:43.960 --> 1:58:47.720 Central Committee. Well, you know what, this reminds me of 1:58:47.800 --> 1:58:51.120 a lot. Yes, it reminds me of a lot of 1:58:51.120 --> 1:58:53.000 the stuff that happens in the sort of early cultural 1:58:53.000 --> 1:58:56.680 revolution where it's like you have a bunch of people well, 1:58:56.720 --> 1:58:59.120 I mean, okay, the big difference of the early culture revolutions, 1:58:59.280 --> 1:59:02.360 like every single group is like claiming at their loyal demount. 1:59:02.400 --> 1:59:03.960 But like you get a lot of these things where 1:59:04.760 --> 1:59:06.600 you know, people people will be like, hey, the party 1:59:06.600 --> 1:59:09.600 has been becoming incredibly overbearing, and then you get like 1:59:10.080 --> 1:59:12.480 most of them are just like okay, like our solution 1:59:12.520 --> 1:59:14.480 to this is we are now the party. But then 1:59:14.520 --> 1:59:17.760 you you get these sort of like ultra left groups 1:59:17.880 --> 1:59:23.080 who are making sort of like not exactly anarchist but 1:59:23.120 --> 1:59:25.440 are making sort of structural critiques of it, and those 1:59:25.440 --> 1:59:31.800 guys just get like purged and killed. I don't know, 1:59:33.000 --> 1:59:37.200 the dynamics and the critiques remind me of it. Yeah, 1:59:37.320 --> 1:59:40.560 I think it's something that we see just in general 1:59:40.600 --> 1:59:47.600 and politics. Honestly, it's a sort of limitation of the imagination. Wait, 1:59:47.720 --> 1:59:50.400 people aren't on't conceiving of things like outside of what 1:59:50.440 --> 1:59:54.280 has already been done. I mean, I myself and guilty 1:59:54.280 --> 1:59:56.600 of this because a lot of my inspirations are like 1:59:57.680 --> 2:00:02.120 pre colonial coaches and you know, societies and stuff. But 2:00:03.320 --> 2:00:06.040 still I try to like bring those into a new 2:00:06.120 --> 2:00:08.440 context and think of ways that can be applied differently. 2:00:10.040 --> 2:00:12.760 I just when you think about this approach it where 2:00:13.480 --> 2:00:15.880 you have the issues of the National Central Committee, the 2:00:15.960 --> 2:00:18.160 solution is to create a new central Committee rather than 2:00:18.560 --> 2:00:23.480 consider an approach that's not involved a National Central Committee. Um. 2:00:23.520 --> 2:00:25.600 I think that's something we see all too all too often, 2:00:25.920 --> 2:00:30.520 or even like just nostalgia politics in general, people's whole 2:00:30.560 --> 2:00:39.720 approach to politics is trying to replicate past movements. But anyway, 2:00:39.960 --> 2:00:45.960 so as you see in balagoons involvements, you know, well, 2:00:46.000 --> 2:00:49.440 as a child, I'm gonna with his parents, you know, 2:00:49.440 --> 2:00:53.839 with the Cambridge protests with the army and his involvement 2:00:53.880 --> 2:00:57.480 in that. But the New York Tenants organizing UM with 2:00:57.680 --> 2:01:00.520 the Plant, the Party, with the Europa Temple, all these 2:01:00.560 --> 2:01:05.960 things how to inform his political development, inspired him to 2:01:05.960 --> 2:01:12.960 be part of dynamic revolutionary movements that he respected and 2:01:13.080 --> 2:01:18.320 he loved and he trusted. But it also helped him 2:01:18.360 --> 2:01:24.480 to question the decision making and the nature of organizations 2:01:25.080 --> 2:01:30.840 and how the structure of organizations um relates to state repression. 2:01:33.000 --> 2:01:35.000 So my name Jail. You tend to have a lot, 2:01:34.760 --> 2:01:38.840 a lot of time to think and consider, and so 2:01:39.040 --> 2:01:42.920 Bablagoon wanted to sit and think and basically correct all 2:01:42.960 --> 2:01:46.480 these ideological weaknesses that are the stirring in his head 2:01:47.400 --> 2:01:53.760 that basically compromised the militant liberation movements that he wanted 2:01:53.800 --> 2:02:00.320 to see liberate his people. So I can good by 2:02:00.360 --> 2:02:05.080 saying that we must learn from the past. In this 2:02:05.520 --> 2:02:10.680 you know, short for agents about Lagoon's life, We've ended 2:02:10.760 --> 2:02:13.560 up coming to a lot of different conversations about the 2:02:13.600 --> 2:02:16.520 nature of movements today. And I think that sort of 2:02:16.560 --> 2:02:19.960 critical approach to you know, people's history something we should 2:02:19.960 --> 2:02:24.640 be doing more often in our modern discussions of the past, 2:02:25.400 --> 2:02:30.280 the good, the bad, and the ugly. Anyway, join us 2:02:30.320 --> 2:02:36.080 for part two of Valagoon's journey, as we explore his 2:02:36.840 --> 2:02:43.000 path towards new African anarchism. You can find me Andrew 2:02:43.480 --> 2:02:47.320 on YouTube, dot com slash Andwism, and on Twitter at 2:02:47.360 --> 2:02:52.320 underscore saying true this has been It could Happen Here? 2:02:55.880 --> 2:03:00.920 Chris was here too. Yeah. You can find us at 2:03:01.000 --> 2:03:04.560 Happened Here Pod on Twitter and Instagram. Follow us at 2:03:04.560 --> 2:03:23.400 the Cool Zone. Yeah, I'll see you next time. Welcome 2:03:23.480 --> 2:03:26.800 to It Could Happen Here, the podcast about stuff falling 2:03:26.840 --> 2:03:29.000 apart and how we can maybe put some of it 2:03:29.080 --> 2:03:34.160 back together. Today, I'm your host, Garrison Davis. Though this 2:03:34.200 --> 2:03:36.920 episode is going to be more of an it did 2:03:37.080 --> 2:03:40.360 happen here sort of thing, as this is part one 2:03:40.480 --> 2:03:43.760 of a special three part series made in collaboration with 2:03:43.880 --> 2:03:47.960 the Atlantic Community Press about the history of the old 2:03:48.040 --> 2:03:52.800 Atlanta Prison Farm. If you haven't listened to my super 2:03:52.800 --> 2:03:57.400 sized three hour two part series on the Defend the 2:03:57.400 --> 2:04:01.120 Atlanta Forest Movement from last May, i'd recommend you check 2:04:01.200 --> 2:04:04.480 that out just for you know, extra context, but it's 2:04:04.480 --> 2:04:08.160 not strictly necessary, as will be mostly going over history 2:04:08.240 --> 2:04:11.600 for these next few episodes, although I will sprinkle in 2:04:11.760 --> 2:04:15.120 updates about what's been happening in Atlanta related to the 2:04:15.200 --> 2:04:19.480 stop Cop City movement throughout this series. At the end 2:04:19.520 --> 2:04:22.440 of this episode, there will be a summary about the 2:04:22.480 --> 2:04:27.320 most recent week of action now for this series, not 2:04:27.440 --> 2:04:31.800 only did the Atlantic Community Press provide the vast majority 2:04:31.880 --> 2:04:35.560 of the historical research and format for these episodes, I 2:04:35.600 --> 2:04:38.520 was also able to record with two members of the collective, 2:04:38.720 --> 2:04:42.720 Sam and Laura, so you'll hear snippets of our conversations 2:04:42.760 --> 2:04:45.640 over the course of these next few episodes as well. 2:04:47.000 --> 2:04:49.920 Last year, in the lead up to the Atlanta's City 2:04:49.960 --> 2:04:53.560 Council signing over hundreds of acres of forest to the 2:04:53.600 --> 2:04:56.320 Atlanta Police Foundation to build a state of the art 2:04:56.440 --> 2:04:59.960 militarized police training facility, complete with a large mock city, 2:05:00.560 --> 2:05:03.600 around that same time, a group of people decided to 2:05:03.640 --> 2:05:07.960 look into the history of the land in question, famed 2:05:08.000 --> 2:05:12.680 for being the site of an old federal prison honor farm. 2:05:12.720 --> 2:05:15.440 This was also around the same time last year when 2:05:15.680 --> 2:05:20.000 more atrocities of the residential school systems were being unearthed, 2:05:20.520 --> 2:05:24.160 and with the Atlanta Police Foundations plans to bulldoze large 2:05:24.240 --> 2:05:26.920 sections of forest that were once used as an old 2:05:27.040 --> 2:05:32.440 labor prison, the possibility of disturbing forgotten grave sites seemed 2:05:32.520 --> 2:05:37.720 to be worth considering. Um, okay, I'm Sam. I help 2:05:37.800 --> 2:05:41.320 out with I do research for the Atlantic Community Press Collective, UM, 2:05:41.400 --> 2:05:47.680 so that means I file open records requests. I accidentally 2:05:48.160 --> 2:05:51.920 I helped accidentally write a seventeen page history report in summer, 2:05:53.720 --> 2:05:57.920 and I listened to fun things like community stakeholders committee 2:05:57.960 --> 2:06:04.280 meetings and UH council meetings. What is the inception for 2:06:04.360 --> 2:06:09.640 the Atlantic Community Press Collective. So at the beginning, it 2:06:09.720 --> 2:06:12.640 was me, Laura and another friend of ours, and we 2:06:12.640 --> 2:06:14.480 were all just kind of involved on the periphery of 2:06:14.480 --> 2:06:18.160 the movement. Laura, please feel free to correct me if 2:06:18.960 --> 2:06:22.080 direct me also, but just as part of the general 2:06:22.120 --> 2:06:25.560 movement and resistance to Cops City. One of us raised 2:06:25.560 --> 2:06:29.080 the question I based on when the prison farm was 2:06:29.080 --> 2:06:33.400 an operation. One of us asked, I wonder if they're 2:06:33.480 --> 2:06:36.120 unmarked graves there, because given the error in which the 2:06:36.120 --> 2:06:41.680 prison farm was an operation, it's not unrealistic that people 2:06:41.720 --> 2:06:47.040 were just buried on site, especially m for prisoners who 2:06:47.080 --> 2:06:50.280 didn't have families to claim them, which is horrible, but 2:06:50.400 --> 2:06:53.800 there you go. Um. That was sort of the genesis 2:06:53.920 --> 2:06:57.160 of our history report. And then I guess naturally, as 2:06:57.200 --> 2:07:00.840 an extension of that, we started asking questions of city 2:07:00.880 --> 2:07:06.360 government and county government about the I guess construction process 2:07:06.360 --> 2:07:10.320 of Cops City. Throughout the development of Cops City, concerns 2:07:10.400 --> 2:07:14.840 regarding environmental racism, police violence, and land stewardship in an 2:07:14.840 --> 2:07:18.040 era of climate change have all been discussed, if not 2:07:18.120 --> 2:07:20.960 by local government or the Atlanta Police Foundation, but at 2:07:21.000 --> 2:07:25.280 least by community members, some local press, and national media. 2:07:25.440 --> 2:07:29.280 Despite this, very little is actually publicly known about the 2:07:29.320 --> 2:07:33.400 actual history of the land that Atlanta Police Foundation wants 2:07:33.400 --> 2:07:36.280 to build Cops City on and the history of the 2:07:36.320 --> 2:07:41.400 prison farm itself. The most often cited histories suggests that 2:07:41.440 --> 2:07:44.240 the land was the site of a federal prison farm 2:07:44.640 --> 2:07:47.240 that was later taken over by the city and then 2:07:47.400 --> 2:07:52.280 soon abandoned. Archival research into the site on Key Road, 2:07:52.720 --> 2:07:56.760 conducted by volunteers with the Atlantic Community Press, tell a 2:07:56.880 --> 2:08:01.120 different story. Months of archival research trivial that not only 2:08:01.240 --> 2:08:05.520 was it never run federally, it was run as a 2:08:05.600 --> 2:08:09.240 city prison farm uninterrupted from about nineteen twenty to the 2:08:09.280 --> 2:08:15.320 early nine nineties and doing considerable harm to those incarcerated throughout. 2:08:15.840 --> 2:08:20.280 Despite claims of reform made at every stage through the 2:08:20.320 --> 2:08:26.080 gathering of old legal notices, old newspaper articles, letters from nurses, 2:08:26.640 --> 2:08:32.040 legislative and inspection records, and oral histories of forgotten legacy 2:08:32.120 --> 2:08:37.760 of torture, overcrowding slave conditions, quote unquote, the lack of healthcare, 2:08:37.920 --> 2:08:42.480 labor strikes, death, and unmarked Popper's graves have slowly been 2:08:42.520 --> 2:08:47.320 rediscovered through Atlanta's radical scene. And this just barely scratches 2:08:47.360 --> 2:08:50.839 the surface. As the Atlantic community press conducted their research, 2:08:51.240 --> 2:08:56.920 to conflicting surprises arose, one being that there was just 2:08:57.280 --> 2:09:01.920 so much available historical documentation that seemingly very few people 2:09:02.040 --> 2:09:05.120 had dug into and put together correctly in the past, 2:09:05.760 --> 2:09:09.080 and two that there was so much information that was 2:09:09.160 --> 2:09:14.640 just missing entirely, records that were either just missing, destroyed, misfiled, 2:09:14.960 --> 2:09:19.360 or possibly were never kept in the first place. The 2:09:19.440 --> 2:09:23.120 nature of this kind of archival research is pulling on 2:09:23.120 --> 2:09:27.200 one question and then finding dozens more. With limited time 2:09:27.200 --> 2:09:30.440 and resources, you can find yourself with more questions than 2:09:30.480 --> 2:09:34.200 definitive answers. These episodes are meant to just be a 2:09:34.240 --> 2:09:38.400 brief overview of the broad strokes of this history, while 2:09:38.440 --> 2:09:43.040 also serving as a survey of the possible directions that 2:09:43.120 --> 2:09:47.600 further research can take. Many people, including an individual on 2:09:47.640 --> 2:09:52.280 the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee for the Atlanta Public Safety 2:09:52.280 --> 2:09:56.080 Training Center a k a COP City, have advocated that 2:09:56.160 --> 2:10:00.440 there must be responsible, in depth investigations into the history 2:10:00.440 --> 2:10:04.840 of this land and many of its current physical attributes 2:10:04.880 --> 2:10:10.200 before any further development could take place. Katherine Nichols already 2:10:10.240 --> 2:10:14.400 laid the groundwork for such research in her thesis on 2:10:14.480 --> 2:10:18.560 the unmarked graves and burial grounds of the Brandon Indian 2:10:18.840 --> 2:10:22.160 Residential School System and the history of what took place 2:10:22.240 --> 2:10:27.040 during its operation. A three pronged approach includes archival research, 2:10:27.520 --> 2:10:31.920 field research, and qualitative interviews with effective members of community. 2:10:32.120 --> 2:10:34.680 This type of research will be discussed more in the 2:10:34.880 --> 2:10:39.560 third episode. However, this research would take time, and with 2:10:39.720 --> 2:10:44.640 construction and deforestation attempts proceeding at an increasing rate, the 2:10:44.680 --> 2:10:48.240 opportunity to do further on the ground historical research is 2:10:48.320 --> 2:10:52.560 quickly vanishing. The same policing institutions that caused so much 2:10:52.600 --> 2:10:58.160 harm are increasingly trying to physically bulldoze away centuries of history. 2:10:58.320 --> 2:11:01.120 We did not set out to write this word. We 2:11:01.200 --> 2:11:04.160 did not We did not know literally when we started 2:11:04.160 --> 2:11:07.480 writing this that the Wooten Report and the same we 2:11:07.560 --> 2:11:10.960 old Atlanta prison farm campaigns proved it incorrect history. We 2:11:11.000 --> 2:11:14.880 didn't know there were two more than two. Frankly, prison farms. 2:11:16.080 --> 2:11:18.480 No one's wrong for not knowing about this, But we've 2:11:18.520 --> 2:11:22.400 emailed this to city council repeatedly. Laura has Laura has 2:11:22.480 --> 2:11:27.080 done amazing, tenacious work and just making sure that every 2:11:27.080 --> 2:11:32.360 single government official involved in this project knows exactly what 2:11:32.520 --> 2:11:36.800 kind of violence there perpetuating the cops. City is bad 2:11:36.920 --> 2:11:40.080 enough on its own, but when you have an accurate 2:11:40.240 --> 2:11:43.920 historical understanding of not just what they are building, but 2:11:44.000 --> 2:11:46.920 where they are building it, it's beyond the pale. It's 2:11:46.920 --> 2:11:50.520 beyond belief. It's it's disgusting. They want to build this 2:11:50.640 --> 2:11:52.840 and stolen indigenous land. They want to build this on 2:11:52.880 --> 2:11:56.760 a slave plantation. Are you kidding me? What were we 2:11:56.800 --> 2:11:59.280 out in the streets for? What are people still out 2:11:59.320 --> 2:12:02.520 in the streets are? I know they know what we're saying. 2:12:03.280 --> 2:12:05.960 I know they know who we are. I know they're listening. 2:12:06.600 --> 2:12:11.040 It's just disgusting. It's disgusting to me. Before we continue, 2:12:11.320 --> 2:12:15.520 let's talk a little bit about the idea of history. 2:12:16.200 --> 2:12:18.520 I think for a lot of people, especially white people, 2:12:18.960 --> 2:12:23.760 are engagement with history is often so distant we keep 2:12:23.760 --> 2:12:29.800 ourselves othered, conceptualizing history as some abstract narrative instead of 2:12:29.800 --> 2:12:34.120 the direct flesh and blood we ourselves and our systemic 2:12:34.160 --> 2:12:38.480 relations grew out of. History should be the tales and 2:12:38.600 --> 2:12:43.880 songs of joy and sorrow and pain, generational wisdom and 2:12:43.960 --> 2:12:47.400 trauma told by the people who lived it, not just 2:12:47.520 --> 2:12:50.920 a list of names and the numerical record keeping of 2:12:51.000 --> 2:12:55.000 the structures that caused ongoing suffering, which still benefit from 2:12:55.040 --> 2:12:59.680 this abstraction. Preserving history for its own sake is all 2:13:00.000 --> 2:13:03.800 and good, but doing preservation with an explicit, ecological and 2:13:03.920 --> 2:13:07.640 intersectional drive can be much more insightful, not to mention, 2:13:07.760 --> 2:13:11.720 respectful for those who it literally happened to in the past. 2:13:12.920 --> 2:13:16.520 This perspective argues for the preservation on the basis of 2:13:16.600 --> 2:13:21.240 its material effects on people both past and present, and 2:13:21.360 --> 2:13:25.880 to demonstrate the direct continuity of control of these structures 2:13:25.880 --> 2:13:29.200 over the people they affect and the repeating patterns of 2:13:29.280 --> 2:13:34.640 rhetoric used to justify it. Similarly, Katherine Nichols points out 2:13:34.680 --> 2:13:37.880 in her residential school thesis that it's essential to view 2:13:37.960 --> 2:13:41.400 this type of history and these records within a full 2:13:41.560 --> 2:13:47.160 living context. Obviously, a complete consideration of context is outside 2:13:47.360 --> 2:13:51.040 the small scope of this podcast and could probably make 2:13:51.120 --> 2:13:55.360 up multiple volumes of books. The time period will be 2:13:55.440 --> 2:13:59.520 diving into, roughly the nineteen twenties to present day, has 2:13:59.560 --> 2:14:03.120 been home to an unceasing trend of the criminalization of 2:14:03.160 --> 2:14:09.560 many marginalized peoples, especially black, Indigenous, poor, disabled, and mentally 2:14:09.600 --> 2:14:14.120 ill people, which will see demonstrated throughout the story told 2:14:14.200 --> 2:14:20.160 here and on into the present. This criminalization of marginalized 2:14:20.240 --> 2:14:25.240 people's coincides with institutions of power engaging in what Lauren 2:14:25.360 --> 2:14:31.520 Berland calls the slow death. The phrase slow death refers 2:14:31.640 --> 2:14:35.000 to the physical wearing out of a population and the 2:14:35.080 --> 2:14:39.720 deterioration of people in that population that is very nearly 2:14:39.760 --> 2:14:45.200 a defining condition of their experience and historical existence. It's 2:14:45.240 --> 2:14:50.000 like a mass phenomenon of material and metaphysical restriction that 2:14:50.200 --> 2:14:54.760 typically already marginalized people face when living under capitalist or 2:14:54.800 --> 2:15:01.120 authoritative governing structures. The slow death manifests by intentionally and 2:15:01.200 --> 2:15:06.200 repeatedly subjugating people to events and conditions known to contribute 2:15:06.200 --> 2:15:10.080 to suffering, resulting in an early death of those deemed 2:15:10.200 --> 2:15:15.440 less valuable by capital interests, sometimes even at their own expense. 2:15:16.000 --> 2:15:19.720 Other times for the sake of profit. All that gets 2:15:19.760 --> 2:15:23.840 passed down through generations with the corresponding generational trauma that 2:15:23.960 --> 2:15:29.520 becomes a defining feature of personal and cultural identity. In 2:15:29.560 --> 2:15:32.440 the case of the prison farm, we see the slow 2:15:32.560 --> 2:15:37.280 death and living history in many forms. A swastika found 2:15:37.360 --> 2:15:41.160 in one of the bedrooms, white inmates going on strike. 2:15:41.280 --> 2:15:46.280 Shortly after the prison farm is racially integrated, Stokely Carmichael 2:15:46.480 --> 2:15:49.800 is held at the farm for several days on the 2:15:49.920 --> 2:15:52.800 charge of loitering. At the height of the Civil rights era, 2:15:53.680 --> 2:15:57.880 after Martin Luther King's assassination, donkeys from the prison farm 2:15:58.080 --> 2:16:02.480 pull his casket through town. Own nurses beg for more 2:16:02.600 --> 2:16:08.040 tuberculosis tests for overcrowded prisoners. Homeless alcoholics are repeatedly cycled 2:16:08.080 --> 2:16:11.280 in and out of the system. All of these instances 2:16:11.320 --> 2:16:14.480 are similar to others both at the time and now 2:16:14.520 --> 2:16:18.400 in present today, and reflect the racial and class dynamics 2:16:18.440 --> 2:16:22.879 at the heart of the constral system. These same socio 2:16:22.880 --> 2:16:27.200 political forces continued to shape the social landscape of Atlanta, 2:16:27.360 --> 2:16:31.160 whether that be through the criminalization of Atlanta's water boys, 2:16:31.480 --> 2:16:36.120 black teenagers who sell ice cold drinks to motorists. We 2:16:36.200 --> 2:16:39.720 also see it in the ongoing eviction and housing crisis, 2:16:40.320 --> 2:16:42.720 the lack of resources in the midst of a pandemic, 2:16:43.120 --> 2:16:46.480 the continued cycling of homeless people through the prison system 2:16:46.560 --> 2:16:50.640 instead of providing humane housing, the squashing of anti state 2:16:50.680 --> 2:16:55.080 protests but allowance of white supremacists and anti vax protests. 2:16:55.920 --> 2:17:00.039 All these highlight the further need for this history to 2:17:00.080 --> 2:17:03.160 be told by the people it affects, rather than the 2:17:03.200 --> 2:17:07.440 institutions responsible, which are already seeking to take hold and 2:17:07.600 --> 2:17:11.160 control the narratives surrounding this piece of land and their 2:17:11.200 --> 2:17:15.800 own history. The Police Foundation has announced its intention to 2:17:15.959 --> 2:17:21.560 build separate museums on the site, dedicated to police officers, firefighters, 2:17:21.600 --> 2:17:25.160 and the labor prison that was once located there. The 2:17:25.280 --> 2:17:29.000 museum idea has been framed as a concession to last 2:17:29.080 --> 2:17:33.360 year's anti cops city call in campaigns, a concession that 2:17:33.400 --> 2:17:37.840 will result in land being paved over and as sanitized, 2:17:38.000 --> 2:17:43.160 police approved history to be built over top the offending 2:17:43.200 --> 2:17:46.560 institutions like the Atlanta Police Department, the Atlanta Police Foundation, 2:17:47.000 --> 2:17:50.200 City Council in the Mayor's office, and the media organizations 2:17:50.200 --> 2:17:53.720 which support them try to pay lip service to the 2:17:53.760 --> 2:17:57.520 atrocities of the past as quickly as possible while retaining 2:17:57.600 --> 2:18:02.240 all the power and then bulldozing for the forgotten history 2:18:02.360 --> 2:18:06.440 as well discuss vague gestures towards the harms of the 2:18:06.480 --> 2:18:10.960 past without material accountability for the harm done have been 2:18:11.040 --> 2:18:15.400 used throughout the prison Farm's history to justify continued control 2:18:15.800 --> 2:18:22.360 of physical and narrative space, and is simply vapid virtue signaling. Now, 2:18:22.360 --> 2:18:26.680 before we deep dive into the prison farm itself, as 2:18:26.680 --> 2:18:29.879 a part of the intent to place the history in 2:18:30.000 --> 2:18:34.960 its full living context, it's necessary to state the land 2:18:35.080 --> 2:18:38.000 the prison farm was built on was a thriving trade 2:18:38.080 --> 2:18:42.400 hub for Native Americans throughout the continent. Every story that 2:18:42.440 --> 2:18:47.759 takes place in quote unquote America has grown from genocide, colonialism, 2:18:47.800 --> 2:18:52.200 broken treaties, and the division of interconnected land into individual 2:18:52.320 --> 2:18:56.280 parcels for ownership. This is part of the history and 2:18:56.320 --> 2:18:59.560 needs to be reckoned with and fully reconciled before anyone 2:18:59.680 --> 2:19:03.880 can truly be free. That extensive history is outside the 2:19:03.920 --> 2:19:06.720 scope of this episode, but we are trying to get 2:19:06.760 --> 2:19:10.520 such topics discussed on this platform with more qualified people. 2:19:11.360 --> 2:19:14.840 The most frequently cited history about this piece of land 2:19:15.400 --> 2:19:19.080 is a historical analysis of the Atlanta Prison of Farm 2:19:19.240 --> 2:19:23.119 by Jillian Wootton of the City Planning Department, written in nine. 2:19:24.879 --> 2:19:27.720 In it, we are told that the Key Road property 2:19:28.160 --> 2:19:31.280 was purchased in nineteen eighteen by the Bureau of Prisons 2:19:31.440 --> 2:19:35.280 and the United States federal government. It was called the 2:19:35.360 --> 2:19:39.840 Honor Farm, and federal prisoners grew crops and raised livestock 2:19:40.000 --> 2:19:44.320 to feed the population of the nearby Federal penitentiary. The 2:19:44.360 --> 2:19:49.480 piece claims that the site operated until nineteen six when 2:19:49.520 --> 2:19:53.080 it was then purchased by the Atlanta City government and 2:19:53.120 --> 2:19:58.640 shut down soon after, at which point the history becomes murky, 2:19:58.680 --> 2:20:01.520 as a single report of a labor strike on the 2:20:01.600 --> 2:20:05.880 land seems to contradict claims of the nineteen sixties closing. 2:20:06.480 --> 2:20:10.760 If you just google old Planta Prison Farm, there's two 2:20:10.760 --> 2:20:14.080 things that are going to come up. There's a campaign 2:20:14.120 --> 2:20:19.599 called Save the Old Atlanta Prison Farm, and this website 2:20:19.720 --> 2:20:23.240 tells you the story of how in the early to 2:20:23.400 --> 2:20:27.320 mid twentieth century, the federal government operated a prison farm 2:20:27.320 --> 2:20:31.680 in Atlanta, and then sometime in the fifties, the city 2:20:31.680 --> 2:20:33.840 of Atlanta took it over. And it links to a 2:20:33.959 --> 2:20:38.960 document written in by a person named Gillian Luton, who 2:20:39.040 --> 2:20:40.840 I think was probably doing the best She could in 2:20:41.800 --> 2:20:46.280 given the difficulties we had in researching this, and what 2:20:47.120 --> 2:20:50.160 this commonly cited history, the Save the Old Wlanta Prison 2:20:50.200 --> 2:20:54.199 Farm campaign and this more official report written by Jillian 2:20:54.240 --> 2:20:58.600 Luton tell you is again that sometime in the fifties 2:20:58.680 --> 2:21:02.880 the city bought this prison bar territory. We found nothing 2:21:02.920 --> 2:21:06.200 to support that. If our initial question was where the 2:21:06.240 --> 2:21:09.640 graves where the body is buried, the question we ended 2:21:09.720 --> 2:21:12.920 up asking was, well, when did the city take over 2:21:12.959 --> 2:21:16.400 the prison farm from the federal government. And we kept 2:21:16.840 --> 2:21:20.280 going back and back and back further into historical record 2:21:21.120 --> 2:21:25.560 until we eventually got to around nineteen eleven, when the 2:21:25.600 --> 2:21:30.519 city itself bought the property that would become Cops City 2:21:31.080 --> 2:21:34.000 and operated their own prison farm and long store. Short 2:21:34.040 --> 2:21:38.400 the conclusion we came to was the federal prison farm 2:21:38.560 --> 2:21:44.720 was a completely separate property, a completely separate prison system. 2:21:44.840 --> 2:21:49.000 And sometimes even though this prison farm really only shut 2:21:49.040 --> 2:21:52.480 down sometime around the early nineteen nineties, in the course 2:21:52.480 --> 2:21:56.440 of just a few decades, we've forgotten the story of 2:21:56.560 --> 2:21:58.800 the people who were incurcerated there and the story of 2:21:58.800 --> 2:22:01.760 the prison farm to the way where we don't even 2:22:01.840 --> 2:22:05.560 understand that it was its own thing, which is it's 2:22:06.280 --> 2:22:10.720 it just makes me angry, Like every abuse possible you 2:22:10.720 --> 2:22:13.680 can imagine happened at the prison farm and we can't 2:22:13.680 --> 2:22:17.640 even we've just completed it with another prison. Horrible, horrible 2:22:17.680 --> 2:22:21.720 things happened. Like that's how poor custodians have been of 2:22:21.760 --> 2:22:25.640 this history. A lot of people don't know that there 2:22:25.680 --> 2:22:30.400 were actually three prison farms running all in Atlanta essentially 2:22:30.560 --> 2:22:34.039 once technically technically two of them are into cap Um. 2:22:34.080 --> 2:22:36.920 There was the U. S Prison Farm Number one federally run. 2:22:37.400 --> 2:22:41.119 That's the one that most people know now as an 2:22:41.160 --> 2:22:43.960 apartment complex. Uh sorry, I don't remember it off the 2:22:44.000 --> 2:22:47.440 top of my head. Then there's number two, which is 2:22:47.480 --> 2:22:50.759 what people know as the quote unquote on our farm 2:22:50.800 --> 2:22:56.320 near Panthersville. Then we have the City of Atlanta prison farm. 2:22:56.400 --> 2:23:00.320 So there are three running at the exact scene time, 2:23:01.400 --> 2:23:05.440 all with that a fairly short distance from each other. 2:23:06.400 --> 2:23:12.080 This isn't something that was unique to Georgia by any means, 2:23:12.879 --> 2:23:17.199 but the history of it is largely ignored. Convict least 2:23:17.240 --> 2:23:24.280 labor was incredibly common. The archive Atlanta Sorry did a 2:23:24.360 --> 2:23:29.080 podcast specifically on the convict least labor that was done 2:23:29.120 --> 2:23:32.320 to build the Atlanta streets basically every street in Atlanta 2:23:33.160 --> 2:23:36.240 was built by convict least labor, and a lot of 2:23:36.280 --> 2:23:39.880 that labor came from the Atlanta Prison Farm as well 2:23:39.920 --> 2:23:43.400 as some of the other prison farms around. There's also 2:23:44.040 --> 2:23:49.240 the Chattahoochee Brickworks Company that was recently turned into a 2:23:49.360 --> 2:23:54.360 public park, and it was historically acknowledged by our mayor, 2:23:54.480 --> 2:24:00.360 Mayor Dickens for its horrific atrocities of slave labor or 2:24:00.840 --> 2:24:05.280 building or creating these bricks at the company m where 2:24:05.360 --> 2:24:11.840 many people died. So there's just this hypocrisy of hey, 2:24:11.879 --> 2:24:15.440 we're using slave labor at this location and it is horrific, 2:24:15.600 --> 2:24:20.039 and we are going to acknowledge that, and we are 2:24:20.080 --> 2:24:22.920 going to put a plaque out there and do a 2:24:23.000 --> 2:24:29.959 ribbon cutting ceremony and truly acknowledge this atrocity. Whereas here, 2:24:30.080 --> 2:24:33.600 because they want the land, they're just going to cover 2:24:33.680 --> 2:24:37.680 it up and oh, hey, our acknowledgement from this is 2:24:37.760 --> 2:24:42.480 we're going to utilize some marble library stones in our 2:24:43.040 --> 2:24:48.440 capaganda entrance to the horse bearings. That's pretty much what 2:24:48.480 --> 2:24:52.160 they're going to do. The Atlantic Community Press research found 2:24:52.200 --> 2:24:56.480 that the Wooton History Report actually conflates three different properties. 2:24:56.680 --> 2:24:59.879 Property number one, a prison farm on the property of 2:25:00.000 --> 2:25:05.119 the Federal Penitentiary, where the penitentiary still exists today. Another property, 2:25:05.240 --> 2:25:09.199 number two was a second prison farm on Panthersville Road 2:25:09.280 --> 2:25:12.560 that was purchased from farmers in nineteen twenty and was 2:25:12.640 --> 2:25:17.040 used to supplement the production of the first federal prison farm. 2:25:17.080 --> 2:25:20.279 But the third property, and the one that we're focused 2:25:20.280 --> 2:25:23.600 on here today, is the one on Key Road in 2:25:23.800 --> 2:25:29.240 unincorporated decap County. This one was only ever owned and 2:25:29.280 --> 2:25:32.400 operated by the city government and was used to produce 2:25:32.520 --> 2:25:37.520 food for city prisons. It operated from up until the 2:25:37.680 --> 2:25:41.800 early nineties before shutting down and being abandoned and then 2:25:41.920 --> 2:25:45.480 used as a dumping ground for the city until now 2:25:45.480 --> 2:25:48.040 where they have plans to turn it into a militarized 2:25:48.080 --> 2:25:53.039 police training facility. After serving as a slave plantation, the 2:25:53.120 --> 2:25:57.879 Key Road property operated as a municipal dairy farm, but 2:25:58.040 --> 2:26:01.440 accusations that the farm was loosing the city money, coupled 2:26:01.440 --> 2:26:05.480 with the ongoing scandals at the city jail stockade in Glenwood, 2:26:06.000 --> 2:26:09.080 opened up debates within the city government ranging from nineteen 2:26:09.200 --> 2:26:13.520 fifteen to nineteen twenty about closing the old stockade and 2:26:13.640 --> 2:26:17.400 moving prisoners to the municipal dairy farm. The stockade was 2:26:17.520 --> 2:26:22.400 overcrowded and unprofitable, and expanding it would cost the city 2:26:22.520 --> 2:26:26.480 too much money. Meanwhile, the area it was in was 2:26:26.640 --> 2:26:30.840 developing quickly and quote filling up with small property owners, 2:26:30.920 --> 2:26:33.320 and the presence of the stockade is an hindrance to 2:26:33.360 --> 2:26:38.240 further development unquote. They proposed building a park, or a 2:26:38.320 --> 2:26:42.080 golf course, or school or all three on the land 2:26:42.160 --> 2:26:48.680 to cater to new residents. Meanwhile, the Superintendent of Prisons, T. B. Langford, 2:26:48.760 --> 2:26:51.840 who had also inexplicably be put in control of the 2:26:51.920 --> 2:26:55.160 municipal dairy in nineteen eighteen, was the subject of a 2:26:55.280 --> 2:27:00.760 nineteen twenty Atlantic Constitution piece that examined Atlanta Humane Society 2:27:00.800 --> 2:27:05.680 claims of women's stockade prisoners being tied to a chair 2:27:06.160 --> 2:27:10.040 known as the Bucking chair and whipped with a strap 2:27:10.200 --> 2:27:15.840 for disobedience. He at first denied these claims, saying that 2:27:16.080 --> 2:27:19.080 white women at the stock aide were never whipped to 2:27:19.160 --> 2:27:25.039 his knowledge and quote Negro women only seldom so unquote. 2:27:25.480 --> 2:27:30.080 An investigation apparently disproved this, and he was ordered to 2:27:30.240 --> 2:27:34.960 stop the corporal punishment, which he argued was both good 2:27:35.000 --> 2:27:39.240 and necessary and should not be stopped because changing the 2:27:39.400 --> 2:27:43.040 course would be an admission of having done something wrong. 2:27:43.760 --> 2:27:49.359 He argued that workshy prisoners would need to be motivated somehow, 2:27:50.120 --> 2:27:54.560 so by the end of January nineteen twenty, Atlantic City 2:27:54.600 --> 2:27:58.680 Council passed a law banning whippings and offering a new 2:27:58.720 --> 2:28:03.120 form of punishment instead quote solitary confinement on a diet 2:28:03.200 --> 2:28:08.279 of bread and water unquote. Complaints of the stockade losing 2:28:08.320 --> 2:28:12.840 money continued into April nine, and T. B. Langford suggested 2:28:12.920 --> 2:28:16.240 moving the whole operation to the dairy farm, which he 2:28:16.440 --> 2:28:22.120 also controlled. Conveniently, prohibition had started earlier that year, so 2:28:22.240 --> 2:28:24.200 it was suggested that the city could save a lot 2:28:24.200 --> 2:28:27.520 of money by making a new influx of prisoners work 2:28:27.680 --> 2:28:31.600 this city dairy. Moving prisoners to the dairy farm had 2:28:31.640 --> 2:28:35.840 one problem. It was not legal to build prison facilities 2:28:35.920 --> 2:28:39.680 on land outside city limits, and the Key Road property 2:28:40.000 --> 2:28:44.359 was located in unincorporated de Cap County despite being owned 2:28:44.400 --> 2:28:48.720 by the City of Atlanta. This problem was easily solved 2:28:48.760 --> 2:28:51.640 by city council, who simply passed a bill making it 2:28:51.760 --> 2:28:56.720 legal to build city prison facilities on land outside the city, 2:28:56.800 --> 2:29:00.800 even outside of Fulton County. By November, the proposal to 2:29:00.879 --> 2:29:03.360 close this cockade and move the prisoners to the dairy 2:29:03.360 --> 2:29:07.039 farm was agreed upon, and from that point forward, the 2:29:07.160 --> 2:29:11.400 Key Road Municipal Dairy Farm became the Atlanta City Prison 2:29:11.520 --> 2:29:17.560 and Dairy Farm, later simplified to the Atlantic City Prison Farm. 2:29:18.800 --> 2:29:22.560 Council members were being praised for bringing in the quote 2:29:22.879 --> 2:29:26.080 largest number of prisoners at any one time in the 2:29:26.120 --> 2:29:29.480 past ten years, saving the city twenty dollars a day 2:29:29.520 --> 2:29:33.080 on the cost of feeding prisoners, and increasing dairy production 2:29:33.360 --> 2:29:37.680 by two hundred and fifty gallons a week unquote. It 2:29:37.800 --> 2:29:40.280 was seen as a win win win for the new 2:29:40.320 --> 2:29:44.400 property owners, city government, and police, but it was a 2:29:44.480 --> 2:29:48.279 huge loss for the most vulnerable citizens of the city 2:29:48.440 --> 2:29:51.640 and for the residents of the surrounding Decab County area 2:29:51.879 --> 2:29:55.400 who had no way of consenting to this deal, just 2:29:55.480 --> 2:29:59.359 like how modern day Decab County residents have no say whatsoever. 2:29:59.760 --> 2:30:04.320 And Atlanta's goals of building a militarized police training compound 2:30:04.680 --> 2:30:08.920 with a gun range and explosives testing section in what 2:30:09.040 --> 2:30:13.440 would formerly be there forested backyard, I mean building cups 2:30:13.440 --> 2:30:16.360 city here is just a continuation of the violence that 2:30:16.400 --> 2:30:20.480 has been done to this land since the earliest since 2:30:20.600 --> 2:30:24.400 time and memorial like this was. This was first of all, 2:30:24.440 --> 2:30:28.120 this was stolen Muskogee land. Then it was a plantation. 2:30:29.000 --> 2:30:31.120 Then it was a prison farm, which is just an 2:30:31.120 --> 2:30:35.080 extension of being a plantation. When it stopped being a 2:30:35.120 --> 2:30:38.640 prison farm and just started being mostly a prison, horrible 2:30:38.680 --> 2:30:42.760 horrible things were done to people and the solitary confinement cells. 2:30:43.280 --> 2:30:46.760 This mostly happened in the eighties. Then we the prison 2:30:46.800 --> 2:30:50.560 and the farming stopped. It just became a commercial dumping 2:30:50.600 --> 2:30:55.040 ground in an area of the city that already has 2:30:55.680 --> 2:30:59.359 some of the worst water quality and air quality standards 2:30:59.720 --> 2:31:03.040 and in the whole metro area. UM the South River 2:31:03.120 --> 2:31:06.080 Forest Coalition and the South River Watershed Alliance are the 2:31:06.120 --> 2:31:10.800 best sources for that. UM. But this was stolen land 2:31:10.800 --> 2:31:12.920 from the bee at the store. The start the story 2:31:13.000 --> 2:31:17.560 was stolen land. And then I guess the last historical 2:31:17.600 --> 2:31:22.600 record is social and environmental injustice. And now you want 2:31:22.640 --> 2:31:26.560 to give it to the police in this day and age, 2:31:26.600 --> 2:31:29.920 I guess you could say, like it's just compounding violence 2:31:29.959 --> 2:31:35.520 upon violence upon violence. Okay, now it's time for the 2:31:35.640 --> 2:31:39.200 update that I promised on the Week of Action that 2:31:39.360 --> 2:31:44.480 recently took place in Atlanta. So near the end of 2:31:44.520 --> 2:31:49.680 this past July from the there was another week of 2:31:49.720 --> 2:31:52.000 Action as a part of the movement to Defend the 2:31:52.040 --> 2:31:56.480 Atlanta Forest and Stop Cops City. Before things even kicked off, 2:31:57.400 --> 2:32:01.520 Ryan Millsap of Black Hole Movie students, just days before 2:32:01.640 --> 2:32:05.760 the July Week of Action put up concrete barricades around 2:32:05.840 --> 2:32:09.360 the section of forest that currently operates as a public 2:32:09.440 --> 2:32:13.960 park that protests had previously gathered in. He later made 2:32:14.000 --> 2:32:18.680 an appearance alongside some bulldozers in Entrenchment Creek Park where 2:32:18.800 --> 2:32:25.760 then said bulldozers seemingly accidentally question mark damaged a park gazebo. 2:32:26.360 --> 2:32:29.680 So great work, Ryan. We just wrapped up our week 2:32:29.680 --> 2:32:33.560 of action. Obviously, we did a whole bunch of really 2:32:33.600 --> 2:32:38.120 awesome events. UM writer's workshops, we had multiple music festivals, 2:32:38.760 --> 2:32:42.240 daily A meetings, medic trainings, we did an arcan training 2:32:42.240 --> 2:32:47.439 and distribution daily meals. I personally, UM had the fortune 2:32:47.560 --> 2:32:53.520 to attend to talk by John Lash who was incarcerated 2:32:53.640 --> 2:32:57.000 at what is now called Metro Reentry Center, but at 2:32:57.000 --> 2:32:59.920 the time was called Metro State Prison, which is just 2:33:00.080 --> 2:33:02.800 across the street UM from the south end of the 2:33:03.000 --> 2:33:06.360 child prison that's on the south end of the prison 2:33:06.400 --> 2:33:09.720 farm property. This was the most well attended week of 2:33:09.760 --> 2:33:12.760 action there has been so far, especially on the first 2:33:12.760 --> 2:33:15.959 Saturday with the first music festival, like as some as 2:33:15.959 --> 2:33:20.080 folks were leaving, like people not at all affiliated with 2:33:20.160 --> 2:33:24.280 the forest movement beforehand, or like heard about the music 2:33:24.320 --> 2:33:27.200 like the school music festival in the woods. They were 2:33:27.240 --> 2:33:29.560 brought in by the music festival. But then we were 2:33:29.600 --> 2:33:32.360 able to educate them on the fight to defend this 2:33:32.440 --> 2:33:35.480 forest in their neighborhood, which is like that is the goal. 2:33:35.800 --> 2:33:41.000 That was an amazing experience. There were three different instances 2:33:41.160 --> 2:33:45.800 of arrests during this most recent week of action. On 2:33:45.920 --> 2:33:49.680 July in Cobb County, on the north end of the 2:33:49.720 --> 2:33:53.800 Metro Atlanta area, four people were arrested at a noise 2:33:53.879 --> 2:33:58.880 demo outside of a contractor's residence. Police scanner audio has 2:33:59.000 --> 2:34:03.040 cops discussing charges for the people who were standing outside 2:34:03.040 --> 2:34:07.920 on public property to include criminal trespass and also discussed 2:34:08.160 --> 2:34:12.199 was quote with the eco terrorists happening in the county, 2:34:12.640 --> 2:34:19.200 possible domestic terrorist charges unquote, it will be criminal trespass, 2:34:20.440 --> 2:34:23.520 will be wrong with the eco terrorists and happened in 2:34:23.560 --> 2:34:29.840 the county. Domestic terrorism as well, wasn't possible domestic terrorism 2:34:29.840 --> 2:34:36.720 as well? It will be negative ontomestic terrorism. That last 2:34:36.720 --> 2:34:41.640 cop they're called a negative on domestic terrorism. This was 2:34:41.680 --> 2:34:45.560 not the first instance of law enforcement referring to defend 2:34:45.560 --> 2:34:52.400 the Atlanta Forest protesters as eco terrorists. On July six, 2:34:52.440 --> 2:34:56.000 people were arrested near the ruins of the old prison 2:34:56.040 --> 2:35:00.800 Farm for criminal trespassing, seemingly just for hanging out in 2:35:00.840 --> 2:35:03.760 the prison farm area, which has been a well known 2:35:03.959 --> 2:35:08.520 urban exploration hangout spot for decades. These people were just 2:35:09.120 --> 2:35:12.720 taken to jail for being there. In the bail hearing, 2:35:12.800 --> 2:35:15.000 the judge said that he didn't even know why they 2:35:15.040 --> 2:35:18.600 got arrested. They were soon released with signature bonds for 2:35:18.720 --> 2:35:24.520 all and then on Friday, July seven, people were arrested 2:35:24.560 --> 2:35:27.160 at a noise demo at a brass Field and Gory 2:35:27.200 --> 2:35:31.560 construction site. Currently Brassfield and Gory is the lead contractor 2:35:31.680 --> 2:35:36.160 for the Cops City project. The site was on Georgia 2:35:36.160 --> 2:35:40.360 State University property. The Atlantic Police Department responded as well. 2:35:41.000 --> 2:35:44.200 Unicorn riot footage shows people making a loop through the 2:35:44.240 --> 2:35:48.800 building and chanting before a construction worker aggressively shoves one 2:35:48.840 --> 2:35:53.280 protester out of the doorway. Here's some police scanner audio. 2:35:54.080 --> 2:35:56.480 Unit three they're saying that no one's in the building 2:35:56.520 --> 2:35:59.840 now protestor wise, but they were inside the building, so 2:36:00.280 --> 2:36:03.720 they all need to be I D and can you 2:36:03.720 --> 2:36:10.840 advise on a number by proximly fifty seven. But if 2:36:10.879 --> 2:36:13.960 you still got eyes on the people walking away, can 2:36:14.000 --> 2:36:16.080 you snap some pictures. I'm on the way up there 2:36:16.120 --> 2:36:19.480 in case they're calmed before mirror inside the building. So 2:36:19.840 --> 2:36:22.400 I mean, that's that's ground for CTS. So we can 2:36:22.400 --> 2:36:25.600 stop just taking pictures you and the three. That's affirmative, 2:36:25.640 --> 2:36:28.840 but we can stop into hands Leaves, coffee, APT Homeland 2:36:28.920 --> 2:36:31.160 and Zone three is in a route to provide support 2:36:31.200 --> 2:36:36.279 of that location. Coming up on the location now. Atlanta 2:36:36.320 --> 2:36:40.840 Police stated that no property damage was done beyond a 2:36:40.879 --> 2:36:45.400 bucket being kicked, and yet seven people are facing a 2:36:45.680 --> 2:36:50.280 slate of felony charges. Yeah, major, says Homelands en route. 2:36:50.320 --> 2:36:54.440 So no property destruction, nobody assault, fit nothing that was 2:36:54.480 --> 2:37:02.040 the problem. They walked back in dead, thank you, sir. 2:37:02.480 --> 2:37:06.360 One person was hospitalized due to broken ribs sustained during 2:37:06.400 --> 2:37:10.040 their arrest. For the first nine hours after the arrests, 2:37:10.240 --> 2:37:14.600 police refused to give jail support the location or contact 2:37:14.680 --> 2:37:18.800 info for where the arrestees were being sent. The following 2:37:19.040 --> 2:37:24.640 Tuesday night, everyone was finally released on posted bond and 2:37:24.840 --> 2:37:27.560 with that that wraps up part one of the three 2:37:27.640 --> 2:37:31.640 part series for the history of the Old Atlanta Prison Farm. 2:37:32.480 --> 2:37:34.800 Before I close out, I do want to plug the 2:37:35.000 --> 2:37:39.760 Atlanta Solidarity Fund at a t L solidarity dot org 2:37:40.360 --> 2:37:45.119 that helps protesters with bail and legal stuff, So donate 2:37:45.160 --> 2:37:49.080 to that if you have the means. Also in the description, 2:37:49.240 --> 2:37:52.760 I'm going to leave that link. Also the link for 2:37:52.879 --> 2:37:57.720 the Atlantic Community Press history report that they published last year. 2:37:58.280 --> 2:38:01.840 That will also be in the description below. Thanks for listening. 2:38:02.080 --> 2:38:05.439 Check out Atlanta Community Press on Twitter or the website. 2:38:06.120 --> 2:38:30.720 See you on the other side. Welcome to it could 2:38:30.800 --> 2:38:35.000 happen here today. I'm your host, Garrison Davis, and this 2:38:35.280 --> 2:38:38.480 is part two of our three part series on the 2:38:38.680 --> 2:38:42.680 history of the Old Atlanta Prison Farm, made in collaboration 2:38:43.040 --> 2:38:48.120 with the Atlanta Community Press Collective. Last episode, I talked 2:38:48.160 --> 2:38:51.920 about how one of the initial motivations for running a 2:38:52.040 --> 2:38:55.320 city prison farm was to save money on the project 2:38:55.440 --> 2:38:59.680 of incarceration, or perhaps even starts generating money. This for 2:38:59.840 --> 2:39:03.680 me to the case throughout its existence, though exactly how 2:39:03.840 --> 2:39:07.680 well it performed at that was often questioned. Use of 2:39:07.840 --> 2:39:11.360 prison or slave labor for government projects was not a 2:39:11.440 --> 2:39:14.560 new concept in Atlanta, though. Around the time of its 2:39:14.640 --> 2:39:18.320 incorporation in the mid nineteenth century, the City of Atlanta's 2:39:18.360 --> 2:39:24.440 population was around one fifth enslaved persons. City Hall itself, 2:39:24.720 --> 2:39:28.880 along with many other iconic buildings and roads, was built 2:39:29.080 --> 2:39:34.440 using convict lease labor from the Chattahoochee Brickworks, notorious for 2:39:34.600 --> 2:39:39.280 its brutal conditions and was owned by a former Atlanta mayor. 2:39:40.240 --> 2:39:44.520 The City Prison Farm produced various crops, livestock, and dairy, 2:39:45.080 --> 2:39:49.240 but it also provided workers for other city projects. In 2:39:49.360 --> 2:39:53.960 nineteen forty six, Superintendent H. H. Gibson bragged that he 2:39:54.280 --> 2:39:57.600 was cutting the city prison food budget in half, as 2:39:57.680 --> 2:40:01.480 well as quote furnishing the city eleven thousand, nine hundred 2:40:01.640 --> 2:40:05.520 sixty one man days of work on city streets by 2:40:05.640 --> 2:40:12.000 prisoners unquote within a six month period. In nine they 2:40:12.120 --> 2:40:16.280 began saving further money on incarceration by getting the women 2:40:16.360 --> 2:40:20.560 prisoners to make the new uniforms, adding that quote, the 2:40:20.680 --> 2:40:24.920 city can buy better materials because the labor is free unquote. 2:40:25.720 --> 2:40:30.560 They attempted to incentivize overtime work by offering quote extra 2:40:30.640 --> 2:40:35.120 credit for each hour of overtime worked for reduced sentences. 2:40:36.040 --> 2:40:39.720 The prisoners were forced to build some of their own 2:40:39.920 --> 2:40:45.080 cages as well. Into one of the older prison buildings 2:40:45.360 --> 2:40:48.400 was designated for use as a hospital for people with 2:40:48.520 --> 2:40:52.760 maneial diseases. That meant that prisoners would need a new 2:40:52.879 --> 2:40:57.120 building and they had to build it themselves. Quote. Most 2:40:57.200 --> 2:40:59.680 of the work was done with prison labor, with the 2:40:59.760 --> 2:41:04.560 city providing the materials unquote. They were also responsible for 2:41:04.760 --> 2:41:08.080 the cleaning and maintenance of the buildings in order to 2:41:08.240 --> 2:41:12.800 pass health inspection. According to an Atlantic Constitution article, quote, 2:41:13.040 --> 2:41:16.960 the dormitory scrubbed daily by men and women whose drunkenness 2:41:17.080 --> 2:41:20.920 and traffic violations placed them behind a mop or tractor 2:41:21.080 --> 2:41:25.520 for an average fifteen day stay one four health rating. 2:41:26.400 --> 2:41:30.600 In nineteen fifty eight. Prisoners were even made to rescue 2:41:30.720 --> 2:41:34.840 a guard's furniture from a fire. By the nineteen seventies, 2:41:35.200 --> 2:41:38.760 the farm provided more than half the food and dairy 2:41:38.840 --> 2:41:43.840 products for inmates in city detention centers. By the nineteen eighties, 2:41:43.959 --> 2:41:47.320 the prison firm had stopped growing crops, but still provided 2:41:47.480 --> 2:41:51.199 for of the pork and beef eaten by the prisoners, 2:41:51.680 --> 2:41:56.680 both at the farm and at the city jail. The 2:41:56.760 --> 2:42:02.240 work heavily subsidized city operations and was crinci are crucial. H. H. Gibson, 2:42:02.400 --> 2:42:06.320 the head of the prison farm, in said quote, idleness 2:42:06.560 --> 2:42:10.320 is the root of all evil in prison management. To 2:42:10.440 --> 2:42:13.440 be completely exempt from work, a prisoner should be minus 2:42:13.680 --> 2:42:18.720 both arms and both legs unquote. In the Courier Journal 2:42:18.879 --> 2:42:23.000 article where he makes those claims, the publication also accepts 2:42:23.120 --> 2:42:26.800 Gibson's claims that he quote took care to see the 2:42:26.879 --> 2:42:30.840 guards did not overwork prisoners, and that the guards are 2:42:30.879 --> 2:42:35.200 not permitted to strike or even curse prisoners unquote, and 2:42:35.720 --> 2:42:39.360 this would of course be later proven very much untrue. 2:42:40.200 --> 2:42:43.160 White guards were known to send black women to a 2:42:43.280 --> 2:42:48.520 less occupied area, supposedly to do extra work, but upon arrival, 2:42:48.720 --> 2:42:53.080 the prisoners would be raped by the guards. If they refused, 2:42:53.440 --> 2:42:57.480 they were quote given a hard way to go unquote. 2:42:58.360 --> 2:43:01.800 These same guards had the power to assign extra work 2:43:01.920 --> 2:43:06.440 to prisoners. This was supposed to have been fixed several 2:43:06.600 --> 2:43:10.240 years earlier with the hiring of a black woman guard, 2:43:10.680 --> 2:43:14.480 but according to the Pittsburgh Courier, she was quote only 2:43:14.640 --> 2:43:18.439 a matron in name. The white guards continued to supervise 2:43:18.640 --> 2:43:23.640 the colored women inmates unquote. The same statement details a 2:43:23.800 --> 2:43:27.040 beating with a broom handle. It claims that black women 2:43:27.160 --> 2:43:30.160 were forced to farm in the rain while white women 2:43:30.240 --> 2:43:33.400 were allowed to stay inside and read newspapers, and called 2:43:33.480 --> 2:43:38.520 for further investigations since the banning of the bucking chair 2:43:38.800 --> 2:43:44.000 used for whippings. Solitary confinement end quote. The whole unquote 2:43:44.640 --> 2:43:48.680 was the official punishment for not working at the standards 2:43:48.840 --> 2:43:52.920 set by the prison guards and wardens. We know little 2:43:53.040 --> 2:43:57.200 about the conditions of the whole in earlier years, but 2:43:57.400 --> 2:44:01.800 in nineteen five a new administ trader named Ralph Holsey 2:44:02.200 --> 2:44:05.880 took over operations of the prison farm. A skeething report 2:44:06.040 --> 2:44:10.560 from journalist Dick Herbert, who went undercover as a prisoner, alleged, 2:44:11.040 --> 2:44:14.280 among many other things, that the whole was quote where 2:44:14.400 --> 2:44:19.920 men were starved and degraded unquote. His report drew much 2:44:20.040 --> 2:44:23.360 negative attention to the conditions on the farm, the whole 2:44:23.640 --> 2:44:27.160 being one of them. At the time, Holsey said that 2:44:27.320 --> 2:44:29.960 he was quote not happy with it as it is, 2:44:30.360 --> 2:44:34.560 but it is necessary for discipline unquote. The whole was 2:44:34.720 --> 2:44:38.600 described as an eight foot by four foot windowless room 2:44:39.080 --> 2:44:44.600 where troublesome inmates are kept in solitary confinement. It's described 2:44:44.640 --> 2:44:49.039 as quote. Furnishings now include a pale and two buckets, 2:44:49.520 --> 2:44:54.760 no bed, no mattress or plumbing. Holsey allegedly planned to 2:44:55.000 --> 2:44:58.840 fit such cells with an iron lattice, bunk and toilet facilities, 2:44:59.280 --> 2:45:00.760 but we have no one to cation that this was 2:45:00.879 --> 2:45:04.560 ever followed through on, and the whole continued to be 2:45:04.760 --> 2:45:09.600 used regularly up until the mid eighties. Leadership of the 2:45:09.680 --> 2:45:13.920 prison Farm changed hands many times throughout its history, and 2:45:14.080 --> 2:45:17.040 at each passing of the torch there were claims of 2:45:17.400 --> 2:45:22.000 improvement the dawn of a new, better era, bleak and 2:45:22.200 --> 2:45:27.000 cruel conditions remained no matter who was in charge. Archival 2:45:27.080 --> 2:45:30.280 research shows that for over half a century, life on 2:45:30.360 --> 2:45:36.000 the farm was subject to hard labor, long days, harsh punishments, overcrowding, 2:45:36.320 --> 2:45:42.160 poor sanitation, and constantly lacking healthcare. J. D. Hudson, the 2:45:42.240 --> 2:45:45.760 superintendent of the prison farm in later years, who was 2:45:45.840 --> 2:45:50.119 hyped up by press as a sort of humanitarian reformer, 2:45:50.800 --> 2:45:55.320 described the previous conditions of the prison farm as slave labor. 2:45:56.120 --> 2:45:59.520 He bragged frequently of his intention to give prisoners quote 2:45:59.800 --> 2:46:03.240 a measure of self respect so they could lead decent 2:46:03.360 --> 2:46:08.240 lives again. Upon being instated he announced his intention to 2:46:08.879 --> 2:46:13.080 empty solitary confinement and forbid guards from hitting or abusing inmates, 2:46:13.800 --> 2:46:17.440 something which we must point out had been declared many 2:46:17.560 --> 2:46:21.359 times before already. He also made statements saying that inmates 2:46:21.400 --> 2:46:25.040 are quote written with guilt about their lives, and they 2:46:25.200 --> 2:46:28.800 want to be mistreated and abused, and they want to 2:46:28.879 --> 2:46:33.720 be denigrated as some sort of atonement for their sins unquote. 2:46:34.440 --> 2:46:38.720 So this might explain why the great Reformer himself was 2:46:38.800 --> 2:46:41.520 still in charge when the a c l U sued 2:46:41.600 --> 2:46:45.480 the city in two for conditions on the farm, citing 2:46:45.600 --> 2:46:50.320 quote illegal and unconstitutional punishments such as leg irons and 2:46:50.520 --> 2:46:55.400 excessive time in solitary confinement unquote, along with the long 2:46:55.480 --> 2:47:00.360 track record of unsanitary conditions. Mayor Andrew Young said of 2:47:00.400 --> 2:47:03.640 the suit, quote, it's simply a problem the city hasn't 2:47:03.680 --> 2:47:07.640 gotten around to handling yet unquote. At that point, the 2:47:07.760 --> 2:47:12.640 whole was still in use as solitary confinement and described 2:47:12.760 --> 2:47:15.959 as a room seven feet long by four ft wide 2:47:16.080 --> 2:47:18.959 that is virtually without heat in the winter and without 2:47:19.120 --> 2:47:22.480 cooling in the summer. Prisoners were held there twenty three 2:47:22.560 --> 2:47:25.800 hours a day, with an hour out for baths, often 2:47:25.879 --> 2:47:29.240 held for many days at a time. The suit was 2:47:29.280 --> 2:47:33.560 settled in nineteen eighty five with a forty dollar settlements 2:47:33.600 --> 2:47:37.720 split between three former prisoners, but the city never actually 2:47:37.840 --> 2:47:42.439 admitted guilt. Prison Farm staff were also ordered to avoid 2:47:42.680 --> 2:47:46.560 using isolation cells like the whole and told to build 2:47:46.680 --> 2:47:50.400 twenty new individual cells. The a c l U and 2:47:50.520 --> 2:47:53.600 those supporting the suit hoped that this lawsuit would push 2:47:53.640 --> 2:47:57.160 the city to make changes, but in nineteen eighty seven, 2:47:57.280 --> 2:48:00.120 just two years later, the city tried to build any 2:48:00.160 --> 2:48:03.320 more solitary confinement cells at the prison farm, and this 2:48:03.480 --> 2:48:08.080 project only fell through because white contractors they hired were 2:48:08.120 --> 2:48:12.440 caught taking job contracts slated for minority run businesses by 2:48:12.600 --> 2:48:15.680 using a front. And hopefully you don't need me to 2:48:15.800 --> 2:48:19.000 tell you that solitary confinement is still used as punishment 2:48:19.120 --> 2:48:22.840 in most prisons today. It's been ages. Something. I looked 2:48:22.840 --> 2:48:27.000 at this newspaper quotes document and just there's so much 2:48:27.920 --> 2:48:31.400 Atlanta may well take pride and the fact that it's 2:48:31.440 --> 2:48:34.440 city prison Farm has won such recognition as a model 2:48:34.879 --> 2:48:39.000 progressive institution that decided as a model in other metropolitan 2:48:39.120 --> 2:48:43.680 areas for municipal penal systems need improvement. I mean, that's 2:48:43.720 --> 2:48:46.600 the same thing they're trying to do with Cops City. Yeah, 2:48:46.680 --> 2:48:50.720 and this is this is from nine that that was 2:48:50.760 --> 2:48:52.760 one of the surprising things that that we found was 2:48:52.840 --> 2:48:57.880 that so many aspects of like specific fights that are 2:48:57.920 --> 2:49:02.959 being had about Cops City have happened fifty sixty years ago. 2:49:03.120 --> 2:49:05.640 Like they were trying to expand the prison harm I 2:49:05.680 --> 2:49:08.560 think eastward more into the Cab County in the forties, 2:49:08.800 --> 2:49:11.240 and that the Cab County residents were like, no, you 2:49:11.360 --> 2:49:14.560 can't do this to our county. But it was because 2:49:14.640 --> 2:49:18.120 they didn't want the black prisoners near the white elementary school. 2:49:18.680 --> 2:49:23.039 And like nine that was that like wasn't long after 2:49:23.200 --> 2:49:29.080 when they like formally disallowed whipping. Yeah, Like that's like 2:49:29.560 --> 2:49:32.119 it's there's still like obviously it's they're still doing brutal 2:49:32.200 --> 2:49:34.880 stuff in terms of like solitary and other forms of 2:49:35.000 --> 2:49:39.200 torture and rape, but like posing it as this like 2:49:39.360 --> 2:49:42.400 model facilities, like you just got in trouble like a 2:49:42.520 --> 2:49:45.520 few years previous for like whipping all of your prisoners, 2:49:46.440 --> 2:49:49.800 tying people down to a chair, like and then one 2:49:49.840 --> 2:49:53.640 of my favorites guards shoot two women prisoners while firing 2:49:53.720 --> 2:49:56.800 vainly at each other. I can't remember if we put 2:49:56.840 --> 2:49:59.000 that one in the article or not. But two prison 2:49:59.080 --> 2:50:01.120 guards were shooting at each other because they were I 2:50:01.160 --> 2:50:04.560 don't know, cranky or whatever and ended up just like 2:50:04.680 --> 2:50:09.200 shooting to prisoners. Since then, inside the report from last 2:50:09.320 --> 2:50:10.880 year on the history of the prison farm, there's like 2:50:11.280 --> 2:50:15.000 almost like a hundred citations and a whole bunch of 2:50:15.040 --> 2:50:18.879 background stuff. How once you kind have had this question 2:50:18.959 --> 2:50:21.360 of like is there unmarked graves at this site? How 2:50:21.400 --> 2:50:23.920 can we go about researching it? What were the kind 2:50:23.920 --> 2:50:27.760 of techniques and things you used to gather all of 2:50:27.879 --> 2:50:31.360 this information? Um, and then let alone, Like how do 2:50:31.440 --> 2:50:33.800 you start sorting through all that to pick out, you know, 2:50:34.000 --> 2:50:36.520 which which seems more incredible than others. You know, there's 2:50:36.520 --> 2:50:39.160 a lot of there's a lot of conflicting history in 2:50:39.440 --> 2:50:43.240 in in some regards. So how what was like the 2:50:43.320 --> 2:50:46.360 whole entire research process, Like because looking at just the 2:50:46.400 --> 2:50:52.320 list of citations, it is a little overwhelming. Yes, it's 2:50:52.520 --> 2:50:58.280 very overwhelming. So our rather co author and Laura they 2:50:58.400 --> 2:51:03.440 did so much of the research, um, Like I have 2:51:03.560 --> 2:51:06.080 to give enormous prompts to them. Like they even made 2:51:06.080 --> 2:51:10.600 a couple of trips to things like the State Archives, 2:51:10.640 --> 2:51:14.920 which are slightly south of the city. I think kind 2:51:14.959 --> 2:51:18.040 of snuck into a university library because a lot of 2:51:18.720 --> 2:51:23.879 a lot of these, like in person resources were still 2:51:23.920 --> 2:51:26.280 closed at the time due to COVID restrictions. A lot 2:51:26.360 --> 2:51:29.360 of them aren't open now unfortunately. So like we have 2:51:29.440 --> 2:51:35.240 a huge document of just like newspaper quotes. A big 2:51:35.400 --> 2:51:41.680 big source for us were historical newspaper articles, mostly because 2:51:41.920 --> 2:51:46.680 because we initially started looking for official documents, um, this 2:51:46.959 --> 2:51:50.240 this is a pub this was a public entity. The 2:51:50.360 --> 2:51:53.200 city is required to keep records, um. And what we 2:51:53.320 --> 2:51:57.160 found was just a huge dearth of them. And most 2:51:57.240 --> 2:52:01.280 of the articles that are not articles but like official 2:52:01.360 --> 2:52:05.000 documents that are still around are housed in a really 2:52:05.640 --> 2:52:11.320 great collection at Georgia State University in downtown. But a 2:52:11.400 --> 2:52:14.960 lot of those things are they're just fairly limited, or 2:52:15.040 --> 2:52:18.440 if they're like year to year reports, it's like just 2:52:18.600 --> 2:52:20.439 one from the fifties, there is one from the sixties. 2:52:20.520 --> 2:52:26.400 There's no consistent documentation available. So then we went to 2:52:26.480 --> 2:52:31.199 public record, which is newspaper articles, and oh my god, 2:52:31.480 --> 2:52:34.360 there are so many newspaper articles about the prison farm. 2:52:35.000 --> 2:52:38.120 I never want to read a newspaper again. And we 2:52:38.240 --> 2:52:41.400 kind of used things that happened at the prison farm 2:52:41.959 --> 2:52:45.440 that we're noteworthy enough to make it into the newspaper too. 2:52:47.320 --> 2:52:51.200 I guess you could say guide what the biggest beats 2:52:51.240 --> 2:52:54.240 in the history of the prison farm work. And that 2:52:54.440 --> 2:52:59.600 kind of led us to what was something that we 2:52:59.680 --> 2:53:04.120 didn't know when we started our research, which was just 2:53:04.400 --> 2:53:09.240 how poorly or just how mangled the history of the 2:53:09.280 --> 2:53:15.200 prison farm has become. This land approximately nineteen seventy five, 2:53:15.400 --> 2:53:18.720 started becoming a police training academy, So there has been 2:53:19.040 --> 2:53:24.000 some sort of police training facility on this land since 2:53:24.120 --> 2:53:30.360 approximately nine There was even a slight version of a 2:53:30.440 --> 2:53:34.440 mock city in the eighties. They had an intersection that 2:53:34.760 --> 2:53:40.560 was for training for urban encounters, if you will. So 2:53:40.959 --> 2:53:43.320 this is the kind of information that we're digging to 2:53:43.400 --> 2:53:47.000 try to find the history. We're literally seeing legal notices 2:53:47.400 --> 2:53:51.160 in the newspaper, so advertisements, and this is how we're 2:53:51.200 --> 2:53:56.840 piecing this information together. When the pandemic hit for the 2:53:56.879 --> 2:53:59.880 first time in recent memory, there was a large scale 2:54:00.040 --> 2:54:03.360 public discussion on how the structure of the prison system 2:54:03.600 --> 2:54:08.240 is detrimental to the health of incarcerated persons. Public health 2:54:08.320 --> 2:54:11.680 experts advocated that the best way to limit the spread 2:54:11.720 --> 2:54:15.000 of disease is simply to have less people in prison. 2:54:15.680 --> 2:54:19.280 We'll talk more about COVID's impact on prison populations in 2:54:19.360 --> 2:54:23.240 a bit, but first let's note how overcrowding and lack 2:54:23.360 --> 2:54:27.279 of medical treatment in prisons leading to disastrous and deadly 2:54:27.360 --> 2:54:32.240 health outcomes is no new issue. When Dick Herbert went 2:54:32.400 --> 2:54:36.000 into the Atlanta prison Farm undercover for the Atlanta Journal 2:54:36.080 --> 2:54:40.640 Constitution in nineteen six, one of his main findings was 2:54:40.760 --> 2:54:47.600 quote non existent medical treatment. He reported quote tubercular, coughing, 2:54:47.959 --> 2:54:53.000 sickly men waiting to die, society's discards herded into an 2:54:53.160 --> 2:54:57.119 unwashed stock aide, only to be turned out again without 2:54:57.320 --> 2:55:01.600 even a smattering of help unquote. This was the case 2:55:02.120 --> 2:55:05.039 from the early days of the prison farm, and remained 2:55:05.080 --> 2:55:08.920 the case for long after. Already, by nineteen thirty eight, 2:55:09.280 --> 2:55:13.160 the prison farm was described by Mayor Hartsfield as an 2:55:13.360 --> 2:55:18.200 ungodly mess and was likely facing issues with communicable diseases, 2:55:18.600 --> 2:55:22.199 as evidenced by a call for quote separate hospital wards 2:55:22.280 --> 2:55:26.520 for diseased prisoners unquote. But it took city council until 2:55:26.680 --> 2:55:30.400 nineteen forty one to even quote study a proposal to 2:55:30.520 --> 2:55:34.000 equip the new building nearing completion for a five hundred 2:55:34.040 --> 2:55:38.560 bed emergency hospital unquote. The completed building was still not 2:55:38.840 --> 2:55:42.280 furnished by nineteen forty three, and in nineteen forty four, 2:55:42.680 --> 2:55:45.199 instead of making the new building into a health facility, 2:55:45.680 --> 2:55:48.560 they moved the prisoners into the new building and fitted 2:55:48.600 --> 2:55:51.240 the twenty year old prison building out to be a 2:55:51.440 --> 2:55:55.800 city detention hospital for treatment of those infected with venereal disease, 2:55:56.920 --> 2:56:00.200 and then, rather than be used as a hospital order 2:56:00.240 --> 2:56:02.800 for the prison farm, it was then used to treat 2:56:02.840 --> 2:56:07.000 a manerial disease bastions from throughout the city. This was 2:56:07.080 --> 2:56:10.840 expected to quote meat demand for years to come, but 2:56:11.280 --> 2:56:14.600 by ninety five there were already calls to close the 2:56:14.800 --> 2:56:17.720 entire prison farm and convert the whole thing into a 2:56:17.800 --> 2:56:23.160 veneerial disease quarantine clinic due to an increasing load. Obviously, 2:56:23.320 --> 2:56:26.320 those calls were never adopted, and the prison farm remained 2:56:26.400 --> 2:56:31.200 in operation in a grossly recursive mirror of the present. 2:56:31.840 --> 2:56:35.400 In an October one, nineteen fifty seven edition of the 2:56:35.440 --> 2:56:41.320 Atlantic Constitution, a quote Asian flew outbreak prompted the immediate 2:56:41.400 --> 2:56:44.480 release of quote any person who is ill and who 2:56:44.520 --> 2:56:48.840 has a home to return to unquote. Even this was qualified, 2:56:48.920 --> 2:56:51.880 though h H. Gibson, who was heading the prison at 2:56:51.920 --> 2:56:54.440 the time, said that only some of those who had 2:56:54.520 --> 2:56:59.080 been convicted of just light in fractions would be released. 2:56:59.720 --> 2:57:02.360 He also said that older men with a history of 2:57:02.400 --> 2:57:05.600 tuberculosis would be released due to the risk of their 2:57:05.760 --> 2:57:10.080 contracting pneumonia. Quoting Gibson, quote, none of the men who 2:57:10.160 --> 2:57:13.359 had temperatures of one hundred and one or more were released. 2:57:13.920 --> 2:57:16.120 Some of these older men have no places to go, 2:57:16.640 --> 2:57:19.560 and if we released them with a possible case of 2:57:19.720 --> 2:57:22.880 flu and higher temperature, chances are we would find them 2:57:22.959 --> 2:57:26.480 dead in the woods or somewhere a day later. Unquote. 2:57:27.240 --> 2:57:29.959 There was no mention of efforts to mitigate spread within 2:57:30.040 --> 2:57:32.959 the prison of Farm facility, and the fate of those 2:57:33.040 --> 2:57:36.320 who were forced to stay is unknown to us at 2:57:36.400 --> 2:57:40.080 the present moment. In December of nineteen fifty seven, the 2:57:40.160 --> 2:57:44.080 Decab County Grand Jury presented findings from an investigation that 2:57:44.240 --> 2:57:48.480 found that the prison farm was severely lacking in healthcare. 2:57:49.120 --> 2:57:51.840 They advised that a building should be provided so that 2:57:51.920 --> 2:57:54.600 prisoners who are ill can be held aside from the 2:57:54.680 --> 2:57:58.280 ones who are not sick, meaning that in the twenty 2:57:58.360 --> 2:58:01.040 years since this was first proposed, it had still not 2:58:01.160 --> 2:58:05.000 been implemented. They recommended that prisoners who were sick be 2:58:05.120 --> 2:58:08.960 given examinations and a record to be kept of those prisoners, 2:58:09.320 --> 2:58:12.560 and the prison farm should quote employ a proper nursing 2:58:12.680 --> 2:58:17.360 staff unquote. Their final recommendation was that quote some sort 2:58:17.400 --> 2:58:19.920 of sick quarters should be put into effects the prisoners 2:58:20.000 --> 2:58:22.640 who are ill can be held aside from the ones 2:58:22.680 --> 2:58:27.240 who are not sick unquote. The implication from these recommendations, 2:58:27.360 --> 2:58:29.800 of course, is that none of these practices were in 2:58:29.840 --> 2:58:33.000 placed at the time of investigation. A year later, in 2:58:33.200 --> 2:58:37.240 November of nineteen fifty eight, a second Decab grand jury 2:58:37.600 --> 2:58:41.680 quote found fault with its medical facilities, along with the 2:58:41.879 --> 2:58:45.440 lack of fire safeguards in the prison farm. Of course, 2:58:45.600 --> 2:58:49.560 thanks to Dick Herbert's undercover investigation for the Atlanta Journal Constitution, 2:58:50.320 --> 2:58:53.320 we now know that by nineteen sixty five, nearly ten 2:58:53.440 --> 2:58:56.840 years later, medical treatment was still found to be non 2:58:56.920 --> 2:59:00.840 existent at the prison farm, and by nineteen six a 2:59:00.920 --> 2:59:04.680 prisoner quote with a record of hospitalization for tuberculosis and 2:59:04.800 --> 2:59:09.560 heart trouble, collapsed and died unquote. Despite the order that 2:59:09.760 --> 2:59:12.920 medical records for sick patients be kept, there was no 2:59:13.200 --> 2:59:16.800 record on file that this patient had ever seen the doctor. 2:59:18.000 --> 2:59:21.680 Recorded sections from a meeting between the prison farm and 2:59:21.800 --> 2:59:25.560 the Department of Prisons indicate that they planned to hire 2:59:25.920 --> 2:59:29.920 a full time registered nurse in nineteen seventy two to 2:59:30.040 --> 2:59:35.560 assist the on site doctor. Other plans included tests for tuberculosis, 2:59:36.040 --> 2:59:40.040 PEP tests for female prisoners, and basic height, weight, and 2:59:40.160 --> 2:59:43.760 blood tests. They also indicated that they were not currently 2:59:43.879 --> 2:59:48.760 providing vision, hearing, or dental care. In Atlanta Voice article 2:59:48.840 --> 2:59:52.160 from nineteen seventy three claims there are quote unquote new 2:59:52.480 --> 2:59:56.280 improvements in this area with the quote employment of a 2:59:56.320 --> 3:00:01.840 physician and two nurses, a detoxification program for alcoholics, health tests, 3:00:02.240 --> 3:00:06.320 and a humane approach to prisoner problems unquote, But by 3:00:06.440 --> 3:00:10.279 nineteen seventy six we still see such things being raised 3:00:10.440 --> 3:00:16.840 as simply proposals. An interoffice communication at Grady Memorial Hospital 3:00:17.280 --> 3:00:20.320 states the need for quote a nurse clinician to be 3:00:20.480 --> 3:00:24.440 hired by Grady and paid by the state under contract 3:00:24.560 --> 3:00:28.879 to provide screening and triage services on site and referral 3:00:29.200 --> 3:00:34.280 when appropriate to Grady Hospital. One of them suggests entering 3:00:34.400 --> 3:00:39.400 this contract for reasons that it will generate one dollars 3:00:39.480 --> 3:00:44.760 in income and quote minimized public criticisms of inadequate healthcare 3:00:44.879 --> 3:00:49.680 for prisoners unquote. It also states that currently prisoners quote 3:00:50.160 --> 3:00:56.200 get only crisis oriented emergency care. A May nineteen seventy 3:00:56.360 --> 3:01:00.880 six Community Relations Commission report indicates that many of the 3:01:01.000 --> 3:01:04.039 health care issues are caused by the reluctance of guards 3:01:04.160 --> 3:01:08.520 to respond to prisoner complaints and quote brutality at Grady 3:01:08.560 --> 3:01:14.080 Hospital by Atlanta police officers unquote. Another proposal from Grady 3:01:14.320 --> 3:01:17.800 one month later suggests that rather than hiring a nurse 3:01:17.879 --> 3:01:21.280 specifically for the prison farm, they use a nurse from 3:01:21.560 --> 3:01:25.560 the Central Referral Office to act as a liaison with 3:01:25.800 --> 3:01:29.720 non clinical personnel at each of the eight detention centers 3:01:29.800 --> 3:01:33.800 in the city and give recommendations over the phone. They 3:01:33.879 --> 3:01:36.600 note that this would save the prison thousands of dollars 3:01:36.640 --> 3:01:41.160 a year. A nineteen seventies seven letter from Shirley Millwood, 3:01:41.440 --> 3:01:46.000 interset Grady Hospital, indicates that prisoners were still being transported 3:01:46.040 --> 3:01:49.959 to Grady for the administration of medication, and that even 3:01:50.040 --> 3:01:53.480 that was not often done. One of her patients was 3:01:53.560 --> 3:01:56.240 supposed to be brought in every day for medication, but 3:01:56.440 --> 3:02:01.280 Millwood claimed, quote the jail personnel have not lied the 3:02:01.360 --> 3:02:04.600 patient had been experiencing chest pain and shortness of breath 3:02:04.879 --> 3:02:09.680 all afternoon, but was not brought in until ten thirty pm. Quote. 3:02:10.080 --> 3:02:12.440 I feel that this is negligent on their part, and 3:02:12.560 --> 3:02:16.400 it is certainly detrimental to our patients. If something happens 3:02:16.440 --> 3:02:18.920 to this patient, will the jail be liable for the 3:02:19.040 --> 3:02:22.680 problems that result from him not being properly medicated? Unquote. 3:02:23.560 --> 3:02:28.640 In an undated document entitled Health Program City of Atlanta 3:02:28.720 --> 3:02:32.880 Prison Farm, tolled from the same archival collection as the 3:02:32.959 --> 3:02:37.920 other Grady Hospital records, does indicate that since nineteen seventy one, 3:02:38.400 --> 3:02:41.440 a doctor is on site five days a week for 3:02:41.879 --> 3:02:45.760 one hour each day, and a nurse is on duty 3:02:45.840 --> 3:02:50.120 twenty four hours a day. It states that wherever feasible, 3:02:50.400 --> 3:02:53.560 treatment should be done on the prison farm property, but 3:02:53.680 --> 3:02:58.160 lays out several procedures to follow for serious medical emergencies, 3:02:58.400 --> 3:03:02.640 usually involving transportation to Grady Hospital. However, it points out 3:03:02.720 --> 3:03:07.960 that quote unattended heart attacks, poison or suicide, overdose cases, 3:03:08.160 --> 3:03:13.240 and heroin withdrawal in jail frequently occur. The report also 3:03:13.480 --> 3:03:17.240 says that in the case of public intoxication, quote, minor 3:03:17.360 --> 3:03:22.280 medical skill and routine capacity in easing interpersonal tensions can 3:03:22.360 --> 3:03:27.320 reduce difficulty for arresting officers, reduce the arrests needed, and 3:03:27.879 --> 3:03:33.280 initiate more constructive rooting than directly to jail unquote. The 3:03:33.360 --> 3:03:37.120 report points out that in diabetic patients, their convulsions and 3:03:37.440 --> 3:03:41.240 the similar smell of their breath to acetone can lead 3:03:41.320 --> 3:03:45.879 to incorrect conclusions with permanent health effects. It also mentions 3:03:45.959 --> 3:03:50.400 that delirium treatment's condition associated with withdrawal of alcohol and 3:03:50.480 --> 3:03:54.840 other substances can quote endanger and inmates life and more 3:03:54.920 --> 3:04:00.800 than one has died unquote. Without proper healthcare, separation of 3:04:00.959 --> 3:04:04.000 sick and healthy prisoners, and in the midst of a 3:04:04.200 --> 3:04:09.320 decades long tuberculosis epidemic, overcrowding would certainly be a major 3:04:09.440 --> 3:04:14.959 contributing factor to sickness and death in prison scenarios. Archival 3:04:15.080 --> 3:04:19.400 research found that overcrowding was a recurring complaint throughout the 3:04:19.600 --> 3:04:24.000 over half century of the prison farm's existence, despite frequent 3:04:24.080 --> 3:04:28.280 expansions often motivated by the overcrowding in the first place. 3:04:29.320 --> 3:04:32.560 Overcrowding is a common occurrence in prisons and jails throughout 3:04:32.640 --> 3:04:36.680 the country. A longitudinal study by the Vera Institute of 3:04:36.800 --> 3:04:41.480 Justice found that quote as jail populations have exceeded capacity, 3:04:41.879 --> 3:04:45.840 county policy makers have turned to jail expansion rather than 3:04:45.920 --> 3:04:50.440 alternatives to incarceration. In some cases, decision makers also argue 3:04:50.480 --> 3:04:54.480 that replacing older facilities will provide safer living and working 3:04:54.480 --> 3:04:59.160 conditions for the increasing numbers of people in the jail unquote. 3:04:59.720 --> 3:05:04.800 How Ever, institute researchers note that quote. Larger jails built 3:05:04.840 --> 3:05:10.160 to accommodate an overcrowded population often see their populations continue 3:05:10.240 --> 3:05:14.359 to increase. This is because expansion alone fails to address 3:05:14.400 --> 3:05:18.039 the root causes of overcrowding, leaving in place the very 3:05:18.160 --> 3:05:22.120 policies and practices that drove the jail's population increase in 3:05:22.240 --> 3:05:25.560 the first place. Indeed, there is a risk that the 3:05:25.640 --> 3:05:29.600 existence of a larger jail with more beds may reduce 3:05:29.720 --> 3:05:33.199 the incentive to make policy changes that address the factors 3:05:33.680 --> 3:05:39.359 driving overcrowding, due to the temporary relief expansion provides unquote. 3:05:39.840 --> 3:05:42.280 This is precisely what we see play out here in 3:05:42.480 --> 3:05:45.560 the case of the old prison farm, and in fact, 3:05:45.760 --> 3:05:50.480 is still an ongoing issue in Atlanta area incarceration systems today. 3:05:51.400 --> 3:05:54.560 Since early on in the COVID nineteen pandemic, it's been 3:05:54.600 --> 3:05:57.160 made clear that the most effective way to mitigate the 3:05:57.240 --> 3:06:01.360 devastation of endemic COVID nineteen and pisons and jails is 3:06:01.400 --> 3:06:04.920 to reduce the number of people behind bars, and wow, 3:06:05.080 --> 3:06:07.560 perhaps that would be a good idea in general, not 3:06:07.720 --> 3:06:12.280 even related to this specific pandemic. The United States locks 3:06:12.360 --> 3:06:15.039 up a larger portion of its population than any other 3:06:15.240 --> 3:06:18.160 nation in the world, and just the state of Georgia 3:06:18.480 --> 3:06:22.120 has the fourth largest incarceration rate in the entire world 3:06:22.240 --> 3:06:27.880 if you compare individual US states to all other entire countries. 3:06:28.879 --> 3:06:34.440 Throughout only three states, New Jersey, California, and North Carolina 3:06:35.000 --> 3:06:39.920 released a significant number of incarcerating people from prisons. Parole 3:06:39.959 --> 3:06:43.760 boards also approved fewer releases in the first year of 3:06:43.800 --> 3:06:47.760 the pandemic compared to the year prior. The response of 3:06:47.840 --> 3:06:52.200 governments was so bad that in total, ten fewer people 3:06:52.360 --> 3:06:58.560 were released in prisons and jails compared to As a result, 3:06:58.959 --> 3:07:01.199 at the end of the first year of the pandemic, 3:07:01.640 --> 3:07:06.080 nineteen state prison systems were at nine capacity or higher. 3:07:07.320 --> 3:07:11.120 Incarcerated people are infected by the coronavirus at a rate 3:07:11.440 --> 3:07:14.879 more than five times higher than the nation's overall rate. 3:07:15.360 --> 3:07:18.840 According to research reported in the Journal of the American 3:07:19.080 --> 3:07:24.200 Medical Association from July of The reported death rate of 3:07:24.360 --> 3:07:28.480 inmates thirty nine deaths per one hundred thousand, is also 3:07:28.600 --> 3:07:31.840 much higher than the national rate of twenty nine deaths 3:07:31.920 --> 3:07:36.880 per one hundred thousand. As of April sixte more than 3:07:36.959 --> 3:07:41.160 six hundred and sixty one thousand incarcerated people and staff 3:07:41.400 --> 3:07:45.480 have been infected with coronavirus, and at least two thousand 3:07:45.680 --> 3:07:48.960 and nine hundred and ninety have died, according to The 3:07:49.080 --> 3:07:52.840 New York Times, and getting data more recent than that 3:07:53.320 --> 3:07:58.879 is actually almost impossible because many carstral agencies have simply 3:07:59.040 --> 3:08:03.600 stopped collecting and releasing information. The number of infections and 3:08:03.760 --> 3:08:07.560 deaths is likely even higher than the reported number. Because 3:08:07.680 --> 3:08:12.039 jails and prisons are conducting limited testing on incarcerated people. 3:08:12.680 --> 3:08:17.320 Many facilities won't test incarcerated people who die after showing 3:08:17.360 --> 3:08:21.520 symptoms of COVID nineteen. A lack of data reporting by 3:08:21.560 --> 3:08:24.400 carstral agencies has prevented the public from being able to 3:08:24.560 --> 3:08:28.760 understand the full impact of the pandemic on incarcetrated persons. 3:08:29.600 --> 3:08:33.080 Organizations like the u c l A Law COVID nineteen 3:08:33.160 --> 3:08:37.040 Behind Bars Project, the Martial Project, and the COVID Prison 3:08:37.120 --> 3:08:40.720 Project have been working to collect data and information as 3:08:40.800 --> 3:08:44.280 there's been a lack of transparency from agencies in providing 3:08:44.360 --> 3:08:48.519 adequate or correct data on the number of cases, safety protocols, 3:08:48.879 --> 3:08:53.680 and deaths within their jails and prisons. Many states Department 3:08:53.760 --> 3:08:57.520 of Corrections rolled back or stopped reporting their COVID nineteen 3:08:57.600 --> 3:09:01.560 data altogether in the summer of twenty twenty one, during 3:09:01.800 --> 3:09:05.680 the Delta variant surge and way before the openercron wave 3:09:05.840 --> 3:09:10.000 that hit last winter. For example, in Georgia, the Georgia 3:09:10.040 --> 3:09:14.480 Department of Corrections has not reported any new COVID deaths 3:09:14.879 --> 3:09:21.840 since March one, and last year halted all public reporting data. 3:09:22.680 --> 3:09:26.040 Among all the correctional systems in the United States, the 3:09:26.120 --> 3:09:30.160 Georgia Department of Corrections has the second highest case fatality 3:09:30.280 --> 3:09:34.800 rate or percentage of those people who have reported infections 3:09:34.959 --> 3:09:39.120 and later die. So this has been a problem in 3:09:39.200 --> 3:09:42.800 Georgia for a long time, whether that be with the 3:09:43.000 --> 3:09:47.160 old Atlanta prison farm or the current day jail's, prisons 3:09:47.280 --> 3:09:51.040 and penitentiaries. I'm going to close out this episode with 3:09:51.240 --> 3:09:54.080 this little tidbit from one of the conversations I had 3:09:54.240 --> 3:09:58.000 with members of the Atlanta Community Press Collective. I think 3:09:58.320 --> 3:10:03.840 just something that's continue waste not addressed. UM. I know 3:10:03.920 --> 3:10:07.920 a lot of people like to focus on positive things 3:10:08.360 --> 3:10:13.320 or more inspiring things. I guess as far as prison 3:10:13.360 --> 3:10:16.840 stuff goes, because I know I've had people repeatedly asked like, hey, 3:10:17.160 --> 3:10:22.199 were there strikes? Were their uprisings? Which is really inspirational. 3:10:22.360 --> 3:10:28.280 I agree, But there's also a really really sad history 3:10:28.360 --> 3:10:30.600 that a lot of people aren't addressing and how many 3:10:30.680 --> 3:10:36.439 people died by suicide here or attempted to die by suicide, 3:10:36.520 --> 3:10:42.880 and it's really sad that no one seems to care 3:10:42.920 --> 3:10:48.560 about that aspect that there were horrific atrocities. There were 3:10:49.800 --> 3:10:54.600 frequent rapes and beatings. There's a photo from the a 3:10:54.720 --> 3:11:00.200 j C That literally says black woman. I think it's 3:11:00.240 --> 3:11:06.600 like from the forties and they are moving around chemically 3:11:07.640 --> 3:11:13.600 infused sludge. It literally says sludge as fertilizer. We have 3:11:14.000 --> 3:11:19.039 proof of these atrocities, and people just like to focus 3:11:19.160 --> 3:11:21.240 on things of like, oh, hey, there was arsenic in 3:11:21.280 --> 3:11:24.600 a lake. I've never been able to find anything about that. 3:11:24.800 --> 3:11:26.400 I have no idea where that came from. I'm not 3:11:26.480 --> 3:11:32.160 saying it didn't happen, but there are so many concrete 3:11:33.240 --> 3:11:38.080 examples of horrific things that happened here. We don't need 3:11:38.120 --> 3:11:41.880 to make up stories. They exist and they're here. You 3:11:42.040 --> 3:11:46.240 just have to pay attention and read about it. There's 3:11:46.360 --> 3:11:52.520 literally a woman who attempted suicide six times because she 3:11:52.920 --> 3:11:56.920 hated being in the whole so bad. The isolated confinement 3:11:56.959 --> 3:12:03.119 self labeled the whole like six times aimes. And nobody 3:12:03.680 --> 3:12:08.760 addresses this kind of stuff, even as forest offenders like 3:12:08.920 --> 3:12:13.879 we owe it to ourselves to educate our community about 3:12:14.920 --> 3:12:19.000 exactly what happened here, even the worst of it, and 3:12:19.080 --> 3:12:21.240 then we'll go fucking raped in the woods because you've 3:12:21.240 --> 3:12:24.560 got to take care of yourself too. But even as 3:12:24.640 --> 3:12:27.800 we acknowledge this land, we need to know the history 3:12:27.840 --> 3:12:31.320 of it too. That doesn't for us. Today. In the 3:12:31.400 --> 3:12:34.840 next episode, will be going over the details of possible 3:12:34.879 --> 3:12:38.840 grave sites and how further research into the prison farm 3:12:38.959 --> 3:12:42.640 could be done, as well as more updates on the 3:12:42.760 --> 3:12:46.560 happenings in the Fight to Defend the Atlanta Forest. See 3:12:46.600 --> 3:13:05.840 you on the other side, Welcome this is it could 3:13:05.879 --> 3:13:09.360 happen here. The podcast about how it feels like everything 3:13:09.480 --> 3:13:12.240 is kind of falling apart and maybe what we can 3:13:12.280 --> 3:13:16.160 do to put stuff back together. I'm Garrison Davis, your 3:13:16.320 --> 3:13:19.720 host for this episode, and this is the third and 3:13:19.920 --> 3:13:23.040 final part of our mini series on the history of 3:13:23.160 --> 3:13:27.240 the old Atlanta prison Farm, produced in collaboration with the 3:13:27.320 --> 3:13:31.960 Atlanta Community Press Collective. We're actually going to start this 3:13:32.040 --> 3:13:35.120 episode with a little update on what's been going on 3:13:35.400 --> 3:13:38.680 in Atlanta as a part of the Defend the Atlanta 3:13:38.760 --> 3:13:43.880 Forest and Stop Cops City movement, considering the Atlanta Police 3:13:43.879 --> 3:13:48.000 Foundation's Cops City project is very much a direct continuation 3:13:48.440 --> 3:13:52.240 of the authoritarian and carcetral oppression of the prison farm 3:13:52.560 --> 3:13:57.560 that occupied the very same section of land. Here's an 3:13:57.640 --> 3:14:01.200 audio clip of one of my conversations with members of 3:14:01.280 --> 3:14:05.600 the Atlantic Community Press Collective from right before the recent 3:14:05.840 --> 3:14:10.600 July Week of Action, and this is about the status 3:14:10.840 --> 3:14:15.560 of construction on the South River or Willani Forest. So 3:14:16.920 --> 3:14:20.520 for the past month or so, it's kind of been 3:14:20.560 --> 3:14:23.519 a waiting game, Like if you refer to the construction 3:14:23.600 --> 3:14:27.920 timeline that whenever open records request revealed, like construction really 3:14:27.920 --> 3:14:31.440 should have started in earnest by now, like they last 3:14:31.480 --> 3:14:36.600 time I saw figure they want to have this open 3:14:36.680 --> 3:14:40.400 by fall of next year, and they are not on 3:14:40.560 --> 3:14:44.480 that timeline. And that's not all necessarily due to the movement. 3:14:45.920 --> 3:14:51.320 So I think between UM just the general supply train 3:14:51.400 --> 3:14:54.640 havoc that's happening across different industries right now, definitely the 3:14:54.680 --> 3:15:00.280 construction industry. I think UM they did men and this 3:15:00.520 --> 3:15:04.720 during one of the recent UM Community Stakeholders Committee meetings 3:15:04.760 --> 3:15:06.280 where they're like, oh, yeah, by the way, we are 3:15:06.360 --> 3:15:10.480 kind of having sub supply chain issues. In addition to 3:15:11.480 --> 3:15:14.359 I don't think a p D and the Police Foundation 3:15:14.440 --> 3:15:18.480 really expected to have any kind of continued resistance on 3:15:18.600 --> 3:15:24.840 the ground UM or any kind of continued public bad press. 3:15:24.959 --> 3:15:28.000 I don't think they think they thought they passed the 3:15:28.080 --> 3:15:30.560 legislation on the public would kind of move on UM, 3:15:30.840 --> 3:15:35.680 because that's frankly what he usually happens when people, when 3:15:35.720 --> 3:15:39.080 people when movements that criticize the police happen, they usually 3:15:39.120 --> 3:15:43.760 get repressed or people's attention turns turns to other things 3:15:43.800 --> 3:15:48.920 pretty quickly. We know that they have a permit for 3:15:49.560 --> 3:15:52.400 It's what exactly is it is a permit for. It 3:15:52.480 --> 3:15:55.720 is kind of complicated, but one way or another, it 3:15:56.680 --> 3:16:01.840 enables the Police Foundation, there contractors and our vendors to 3:16:03.320 --> 3:16:07.360 construct a basically like a temporary construction fence like you 3:16:07.400 --> 3:16:11.360 would see around a construction site. But in that permit 3:16:11.440 --> 3:16:15.400 I believe expires in August of this year, because that's 3:16:15.400 --> 3:16:18.880 a temporary permit, but that fence does not seem to 3:16:18.920 --> 3:16:22.640 have gone up, so it's it's kind of a stalemate 3:16:22.800 --> 3:16:27.200 right now. Just five days after the July week of 3:16:27.360 --> 3:16:32.879 action wrapped on early Wednesday morning on August three, dozens 3:16:33.040 --> 3:16:37.360 of work vehicles and police amassed around the forest, staging 3:16:37.400 --> 3:16:42.680 heavy machinery, setting up roadblocks, and started dismantling barricades in 3:16:42.800 --> 3:16:46.960 the forest. Sounds of tree cutting could be heard near 3:16:47.080 --> 3:16:51.160 the occupied to stop Cops City tree sets. Police were 3:16:51.280 --> 3:16:55.959 initially stalled by the burning of tire barricades near roads, 3:16:56.680 --> 3:17:00.840 but around seven am, heavy machinery bree to the proposed 3:17:00.920 --> 3:17:04.240 site for Cops City and entered on the north side 3:17:04.320 --> 3:17:09.400 of the forest. Excavators cleared barricades and trees were felled 3:17:09.560 --> 3:17:14.320 near trails, making wider paths into the forest. De Cab 3:17:14.440 --> 3:17:18.560 County Police officers accompanied gas pipeline workers who were on 3:17:18.640 --> 3:17:23.800 the ground adjacent to Entrenchment Creek Park. One arrest was reported. 3:17:24.240 --> 3:17:27.640 The arrestee was originally being taken straight to jail and 3:17:27.720 --> 3:17:31.960 then got diverted to police headquarters for questioning, and it 3:17:32.120 --> 3:17:36.440 was confirmed that FBI was also on the scene. There 3:17:36.560 --> 3:17:40.120 were no attempts at extraction of tree sitters and no 3:17:40.240 --> 3:17:45.240 additional arrests reported. That day, the Atlanta Police Foundations contract 3:17:45.320 --> 3:17:48.880 workers did substantial forest clearing in an area of the 3:17:48.959 --> 3:17:53.600 woods near the entrance gate on Key Road, directly adjacent 3:17:53.720 --> 3:17:57.959 to the existing power line clearing. Much of the surrounding 3:17:57.959 --> 3:18:01.200 neighborhood was blocked off by the Atlantic Department for most 3:18:01.280 --> 3:18:04.240 of the day, with no warning given to local residents, 3:18:04.760 --> 3:18:09.240 many of whom have stopped cops city yard signs. The 3:18:09.320 --> 3:18:12.720 work being done along the power line cut is assumed 3:18:12.800 --> 3:18:17.920 to be either for installing sewer lines and or drilling holes. 3:18:18.879 --> 3:18:22.200 The presence of Georgia Power suggests that they could have 3:18:22.240 --> 3:18:25.960 been trying to bore holes to install power lines. The 3:18:26.040 --> 3:18:29.280 next morning, around twenty cops, some mounted on a t 3:18:29.440 --> 3:18:33.960 v S, patrolled throughout the forest, possibly looking for rebuilt 3:18:34.000 --> 3:18:37.520 barricades or to snatch up anyone they found in the area. 3:18:38.680 --> 3:18:41.400 Ever since then, there's been cops, sometimes on a t 3:18:41.520 --> 3:18:44.440 v S, spotted multiple times a week in the forest, 3:18:44.800 --> 3:18:49.800 usually during early in the morning. How much grounds clearing 3:18:50.000 --> 3:18:53.160 and pre construction work was done recently in the forest 3:18:53.920 --> 3:18:58.560 was slightly surprising considering the land disturbance permit has not 3:18:58.760 --> 3:19:01.840 yet been issued, though it is possible that the recent 3:19:01.920 --> 3:19:06.320 work was covered by existing utility easements or the temporary 3:19:06.400 --> 3:19:09.960 construction permit that expires later this month that was mainly 3:19:10.080 --> 3:19:13.480 issued around the goal of putting up a security offense 3:19:13.600 --> 3:19:17.120 around the forest. And with that now, let's get back 3:19:17.200 --> 3:19:22.080 to the history of the prison farm. As discussed last episode, 3:19:22.520 --> 3:19:26.120 overcrowding was one of the initial motivations for proposing to 3:19:26.320 --> 3:19:30.000 move the Glenwood Stockade prisoners to the dairy Farm site, 3:19:30.640 --> 3:19:34.760 though it was not the final decisive factor because at 3:19:34.800 --> 3:19:39.440 the time populations there were dwindling. Several years later, though, 3:19:39.879 --> 3:19:44.440 Councilman chose Wood was being praised for increasing the incarcerated 3:19:44.480 --> 3:19:49.160 population because it brought in more revenue, and several years 3:19:49.280 --> 3:19:54.360 after that, in overcrowding at the second stockade on Decatur 3:19:54.520 --> 3:19:58.800 and Hillard prompted discussions on expanding the prison farm by 3:19:58.879 --> 3:20:02.800 bringing in portable buildings from the school board and expanding 3:20:02.879 --> 3:20:06.800 the woman's prison by one hundred feet. A police report 3:20:06.920 --> 3:20:10.360 from nineteen thirty six says, quote, we find that all 3:20:10.480 --> 3:20:15.440 prisoners have separate quarters which are in sanitary condition but overcrowded. 3:20:15.959 --> 3:20:19.320 We recommend that another unit be constructed for white female 3:20:19.360 --> 3:20:24.040 prisoners as well as white male prisoners unquote, And by 3:20:24.120 --> 3:20:27.720 nineteen thirty eight, a new wing was completed housing seventy 3:20:27.760 --> 3:20:31.199 five more prisoners, and another edition of the same size 3:20:31.320 --> 3:20:34.280 was expected to be added to the main building, but 3:20:34.560 --> 3:20:38.320 only five months later, the prison farm's own superintendent again 3:20:38.440 --> 3:20:42.800 described the conditions there as overcrowded and recommended another expansion 3:20:42.959 --> 3:20:47.760 and separate ward for quote unquote diseased prisoners. In nineteen 3:20:47.800 --> 3:20:50.480 thirty nine, a proposal to extend the land by one 3:20:50.560 --> 3:20:54.680 hundred and eighty four acres was protested by Decab residents 3:20:55.000 --> 3:20:57.400 on the basis that it was directly next to a 3:20:57.600 --> 3:21:01.080 white school and that quote for their development of penal 3:21:01.120 --> 3:21:04.840 institutions in net section would destroy the value of surrounding 3:21:04.920 --> 3:21:09.000 property and preclude the development of a civic center which 3:21:09.080 --> 3:21:14.040 citizens seek near the west side school grounds unquote. The 3:21:14.160 --> 3:21:18.560 plan was abandoned, but later brought up with a compromise 3:21:19.000 --> 3:21:21.760 in that they would instead only take a hundred and 3:21:21.879 --> 3:21:26.120 thirty four acres, leaving a fifty acre buffer between the 3:21:26.240 --> 3:21:30.080 prison farm and the school. In four, a new building, 3:21:30.160 --> 3:21:33.040 originally slated to be a medical ward, was built, and 3:21:33.160 --> 3:21:35.920 as we saw in the healthcare section, this ended up 3:21:36.000 --> 3:21:39.720 becoming a new prison building, and the old building became 3:21:39.800 --> 3:21:44.040 the Maneial Disease Hospital. The new building could quote house 3:21:44.320 --> 3:21:48.360 seven and twenty five prisoners without crowding them unquote, and 3:21:48.640 --> 3:21:51.760 was said to be able to quote eliminate long standing 3:21:51.800 --> 3:21:55.400 criticism of nearby residents because of escapes from the old 3:21:55.560 --> 3:22:00.560 overcrowded and ill arranged structure unquote. In nineteen forty six, 3:22:00.680 --> 3:22:03.879 the city took possession of an additional eighty nine acres 3:22:04.000 --> 3:22:07.640 of land for the prison farm, but still overcrowding was 3:22:07.840 --> 3:22:11.760 again raised as an issue in nineteen fifty two, but 3:22:11.879 --> 3:22:15.240 this time certain sentences were reduced from twenty days to 3:22:15.440 --> 3:22:19.440 ten days to address this problem, constituting the first time 3:22:19.560 --> 3:22:24.760 a slightly decarce oral approach was used. But despite this 3:22:25.120 --> 3:22:28.360 and yet another new wing being built in nineteen fifty eight, 3:22:28.760 --> 3:22:31.760 a grand jury in nineteen sixty found that the prison 3:22:31.840 --> 3:22:37.080 farm was quote unquote exceedingly overcrowded and quote as a result, 3:22:37.360 --> 3:22:42.560 the health of prisoners is jeopardized unquote. They suggested building 3:22:42.600 --> 3:22:47.080 a quote unquote work camp to alleviate crowding. Dick Herbert's 3:22:47.200 --> 3:22:51.480 undercover investigation in nineteen sixty five found that men were 3:22:51.560 --> 3:22:55.280 sleeping on the floor and tables because there was still 3:22:55.400 --> 3:22:59.640 not enough beds. A quote from Herbert says, so closely 3:22:59.720 --> 3:23:02.360 pass act are the three hundred bunks that they are 3:23:02.400 --> 3:23:07.279 alternated head to foot. In nineteen sixty seven, Atlanta started 3:23:07.440 --> 3:23:11.760 talking about chronic alcoholism as a health problem rather than 3:23:11.920 --> 3:23:16.200 one of criminality. However, the assumption was that this was 3:23:16.360 --> 3:23:20.400 still to be treated by those in charge of the prisons. Quote. 3:23:20.680 --> 3:23:23.920 The prison is already crowded up against its six hundred 3:23:24.000 --> 3:23:28.720 person capacity, said the Atlanta Journal Constitution. But according to 3:23:28.800 --> 3:23:33.640 Superintendent Holsey, the conversion to a rehabilitation center would mean 3:23:33.840 --> 3:23:38.879 longer stays and thus higher populations, stating quote, they likely 3:23:39.040 --> 3:23:42.920 will have to build a whole new city prison farm unquote. 3:23:44.400 --> 3:23:48.519 A nineteen seventy six article from the Atlanta Journal Constitution 3:23:48.720 --> 3:23:52.279 says that in nineteen seventy a thousand prisoners were packed 3:23:52.360 --> 3:23:56.119 in the old building. Inmates slept in rickety beds. Three 3:23:56.360 --> 3:24:01.280 high health inspectors and judges cut the population for humanity's sake. 3:24:02.160 --> 3:24:04.920 It further claimed that the facility was now quote well 3:24:05.040 --> 3:24:09.560 below its comfortable capacity of four hundred prisoners unquote. In 3:24:09.720 --> 3:24:14.400 nineteen seventy four, the Uniform Alcohol Treatment Act was passed, 3:24:14.600 --> 3:24:20.400 although never fully funded, which effectively decriminalized alcoholism. This act 3:24:20.520 --> 3:24:23.400 was said to reduce the population of the prison farm 3:24:23.520 --> 3:24:26.600 from five hundred in nineteen seventy two to two hundred 3:24:26.680 --> 3:24:30.959 and nine eighty three, although new laws were passed further 3:24:31.040 --> 3:24:35.480 criminalizing certain actions while intoxicated at the behest of the 3:24:35.520 --> 3:24:40.480 business community who quote demanded drunks and winos be removed 3:24:40.600 --> 3:24:44.720 from the streets unquote. This era marks the last time 3:24:44.840 --> 3:24:50.800 the Atlantic community press research found complaints of overcrowding. The 3:24:50.920 --> 3:24:54.880 lack of further complaints strongly suggests that decriminalization is a 3:24:55.000 --> 3:24:59.040 better answer to the problem of overcrowding rather than prison expansion. 3:24:59.800 --> 3:25:03.360 It also necessary to mention that alleviating the problem fifty 3:25:03.440 --> 3:25:06.520 years into the project does not make up for the 3:25:06.600 --> 3:25:10.640 unnecessary harm and death likely caused by these conditions over 3:25:10.680 --> 3:25:14.600 the years. As we went over last episode, overcrowding of 3:25:14.680 --> 3:25:18.800 jail's remains a problem in our modern jails and prisons. Currently, 3:25:18.920 --> 3:25:22.560 the Fulton County Sheriff wants the Atlanta City government to 3:25:22.840 --> 3:25:26.560 abandon their promise of closing a city jail and instead 3:25:26.879 --> 3:25:30.680 rent the jail to Fulton County to alleviate overcrowding in 3:25:30.840 --> 3:25:35.280 their system. This is billed as a humanitarian move, but 3:25:35.520 --> 3:25:39.439 as we've discussed in the past few episodes, history suggests otherwise, 3:25:40.120 --> 3:25:44.480 and the most successful way at reducing harm was decarcet 3:25:44.640 --> 3:25:50.680 role approaches. Complaints about poor sanitation and malnutrition also span 3:25:50.879 --> 3:25:55.400 the prison farm's history. Combined with the previously detailed conditions, 3:25:55.800 --> 3:25:58.680 these would further increase the likelihood of sickness and death 3:25:58.840 --> 3:26:03.400 within the prison. For arm walls, prisoners eight complained that 3:26:03.520 --> 3:26:07.120 quote a silver dollar would cover each particle of food 3:26:07.320 --> 3:26:11.400 given to prisoners and asked for quote more vegetables and 3:26:11.600 --> 3:26:16.119 less sorghum unquote. In ninety one, during a tense meeting 3:26:16.200 --> 3:26:20.080 in which Decab tried unsuccessfully to prevent Atlanta from expanding 3:26:20.120 --> 3:26:23.680 the prison farm, a DECAB resident said that the farm 3:26:23.840 --> 3:26:29.359 was without sanitary facilities, despite frequent assurances that the facility 3:26:29.600 --> 3:26:34.160 was clean. However, work was temporarily abandoned on that expansion 3:26:34.320 --> 3:26:38.080 after Decab County citizens sought and obtained an injunction against 3:26:38.120 --> 3:26:42.600 the City of Atlanta for dumping untreated sewage into entrenchment creek. 3:26:44.000 --> 3:26:47.920 There is a large gap in reporting on these particular conditions, 3:26:48.400 --> 3:26:52.199 but there's evidence that they persisted, because in nineteen sixty, 3:26:52.520 --> 3:26:56.720 the Decab Ground jury found that quote, restrooms were deplorable 3:26:56.879 --> 3:27:00.520 in both white and negro wards unquote, and that the 3:27:00.600 --> 3:27:03.960 kitchen floor was quote unquote in a deplorable state and 3:27:04.080 --> 3:27:10.480 should be replaced. The Atlanta Journal Constitution's own inspection curiously 3:27:10.560 --> 3:27:14.800 concluded that the farm was quote operated very efficiently and 3:27:15.080 --> 3:27:20.080 with good sanitary conditions unquote, But just two years later, 3:27:20.440 --> 3:27:24.840 Dick Herbert's undercover work as a prisoner showed quite the contrary. 3:27:25.400 --> 3:27:30.039 He found puddles of spit at drainage grills, wondered if 3:27:30.160 --> 3:27:33.080 many of the men had tuberculosis, and said that quote 3:27:33.440 --> 3:27:36.560 it was not uncommon to find dead bugs or hair 3:27:36.840 --> 3:27:40.560 in food. The rusty, dirty tins we drank out of 3:27:40.720 --> 3:27:45.520 should be replaced unquote. Herbert also mentioned that quote the 3:27:45.600 --> 3:27:49.600 food was almost entirely a thin and liquid diet, and 3:27:49.720 --> 3:27:54.280 also said that inmates often complained that the best of 3:27:54.400 --> 3:27:57.760 the farms produce and meats are reserved for the guards 3:27:57.879 --> 3:28:00.680 and hired help, and just to remind or that they 3:28:00.800 --> 3:28:04.800 themselves worked to grow all that produce. A prisoner named 3:28:05.000 --> 3:28:08.520 Carl h sent to the prison farm in nineteen sixty 3:28:08.560 --> 3:28:12.320 eight on a public drunkenness charge, said, after five days 3:28:12.400 --> 3:28:15.400 at the facility, quote, I've had one half of a 3:28:15.520 --> 3:28:19.680 meal since I've been here unquote. Apparently, by this time, 3:28:19.920 --> 3:28:24.120 local court rulings had determined that chronic alcoholics could no 3:28:24.200 --> 3:28:28.199 longer be arrested on these charges, but the judge claimed, quote, 3:28:28.680 --> 3:28:32.240 I'm doing it from a humanitarian standpoint, whether it's legal 3:28:32.480 --> 3:28:36.720 or not. Unquote. Carl said of that matter, that the 3:28:36.840 --> 3:28:39.400 judge quote told me that he was going to save 3:28:39.480 --> 3:28:42.280 my life. I told him he can't save my life 3:28:42.320 --> 3:28:44.800 out there at the stockade. I told him he can 3:28:44.879 --> 3:28:48.000 send me anywhere, but not the stockade. He can't save 3:28:48.080 --> 3:28:52.199 my life out there unquote. This was three years after 3:28:52.360 --> 3:28:57.680 Superintendent Holsey was praised for his reforms and interviewed by 3:28:57.720 --> 3:29:00.880 the Atlanta Journal Constitution saying, quote, I'm just trying to 3:29:00.959 --> 3:29:04.400 make this place sanitary and livable for these people unquote. 3:29:05.080 --> 3:29:08.320 On two occasions in nineteen sixty nine, the vast majority 3:29:08.360 --> 3:29:12.120 of prisoners went on strike due to poor food. The 3:29:12.200 --> 3:29:15.120 first time, they demanded a raise for the cook and 3:29:15.240 --> 3:29:18.280 the hiring of a new cook. But four months later, 3:29:18.440 --> 3:29:21.920 these conditions which were agreed to to end the strike 3:29:22.280 --> 3:29:26.199 had still not been met. Prison farm administrators once again 3:29:26.360 --> 3:29:29.120 promised to raise cook wages and hire a new cook 3:29:29.480 --> 3:29:31.920 to end the strike, but we have no indication that 3:29:32.000 --> 3:29:35.520 they ever followed through on that. In Atlanta Journal Constitution 3:29:35.680 --> 3:29:39.080 article from nineteen seventy states that prisoners were working in 3:29:39.120 --> 3:29:43.040 the kitchen while infected with tuberculosis. Quote one man was 3:29:43.080 --> 3:29:45.880 sent to Batty State Hospital after it was found his 3:29:46.000 --> 3:29:49.880 tuberculosis was so advanced that he started hemorrhaging. He had 3:29:49.920 --> 3:29:53.480 worked in the kitchen the night before unquote. When asked 3:29:53.560 --> 3:29:57.560 about this, the prison farm administrator R. F. Jordan's said 3:29:57.600 --> 3:30:01.240 that some prisoners do have tuberculosis, and yes, quote some 3:30:01.440 --> 3:30:03.720 of them work in the kitchen, but only if their 3:30:03.800 --> 3:30:09.400 case is arrested. Unquote. Employees protesting discrimination against black employees 3:30:09.520 --> 3:30:12.879 at the farm and unfair and illegal incarceration of alcoholics 3:30:13.360 --> 3:30:16.840 also said that quote there are rats and roaches and 3:30:17.040 --> 3:30:20.920 filth that you wouldn't believe unquote. In nineteen seventy one, 3:30:21.080 --> 3:30:23.840 the prison farm was found to be serving food illegally 3:30:24.000 --> 3:30:28.160 without a license. But health officials complained that there were 3:30:28.240 --> 3:30:31.240 only two of them for the entire multi county district 3:30:31.600 --> 3:30:34.720 and they had no means of actually enforcing licenses or 3:30:34.840 --> 3:30:38.720 food safety. Just one month later, prisoners again went on 3:30:38.840 --> 3:30:42.720 strike due to being served watered down gravy and being 3:30:42.920 --> 3:30:48.080 unjustly incarcerated for alcoholism. Reports on conditions are few and 3:30:48.200 --> 3:30:51.840 far between after this period, but the two a c 3:30:52.040 --> 3:30:55.840 l U lawsuit claimed, among other things, that the conditions 3:30:55.920 --> 3:31:00.360 at the facility are unsanitary. There is most likely more 3:31:00.400 --> 3:31:04.560 information to find between these years, As one prison farm 3:31:04.640 --> 3:31:07.320 worker said, quote, we used to have strikes out here 3:31:07.360 --> 3:31:10.480 about every month, sometimes two or three a month unquote. 3:31:11.200 --> 3:31:16.320 In nine three, Superintendent Hudson, once hailed as the great 3:31:16.440 --> 3:31:22.440 humanitarian reformer, was replaced after quote complaints from employees and 3:31:22.640 --> 3:31:26.440 city politicians about his handling of the city jail, its 3:31:26.520 --> 3:31:31.720 employees and prisoners. Hudson said of the criticism, quote, I 3:31:31.840 --> 3:31:35.080 get bored when there aren't any problems. Serenity is not 3:31:35.280 --> 3:31:39.240 my thing unquote. A big focus of the research that 3:31:39.320 --> 3:31:42.680 the Atlantic Community Press did was on the question of 3:31:42.959 --> 3:31:47.000 unmarked graves at the prison farm site. There are persistent 3:31:47.040 --> 3:31:50.000 folk stories about these that may be tempting for some 3:31:50.240 --> 3:31:54.920 to write off as unfounded rumors. However, oral histories and 3:31:55.080 --> 3:31:59.760 qualitative interviews need to be taken seriously and considered along 3:32:00.040 --> 3:32:04.640 side other forms of evidence. Some stories have already been substantiated, 3:32:05.120 --> 3:32:08.760 and for others, the evidence found so far certainly places 3:32:08.840 --> 3:32:13.080 them within the realm of possibility. This episode, I'm not 3:32:13.200 --> 3:32:15.360 going to try to prove without a shadow of a 3:32:15.400 --> 3:32:19.120 doubt that there are unmarked graves on the property that 3:32:19.520 --> 3:32:22.480 is slated to become a cop city, but I will 3:32:22.600 --> 3:32:26.520 discuss documentation that shows that there is a strong possibility 3:32:26.640 --> 3:32:30.320 that needs to be carefully and fully investigated, regardless of 3:32:30.440 --> 3:32:34.640 how long it takes to do so properly. To start, 3:32:34.920 --> 3:32:38.199 there is this quote from an Atlanta Journal constitution piece 3:32:38.360 --> 3:32:43.440 from nineteen seventy six. Quote, Maud, the deceased elephant and 3:32:43.600 --> 3:32:47.400 two hundred and eighty inmates rest in peace at the 3:32:47.520 --> 3:32:52.039 City of Atlanta prison Farm. Unquote. Now, I'm gonna unpack 3:32:52.160 --> 3:32:54.800 that one at a time, because there's a there's a 3:32:54.879 --> 3:32:59.480 lot there. Uh. The elephant, Maud was the former zoo 3:32:59.600 --> 3:33:03.400 elephant end that died and whose corpse was dumped at 3:33:03.440 --> 3:33:06.880 the prison farm property by the city, and as for 3:33:07.040 --> 3:33:11.640 the line about two hundred and eighty buried inmates. There's 3:33:11.760 --> 3:33:15.959 no other details given in the article, and some researchers 3:33:16.080 --> 3:33:20.199 suspect that this is some kind of sick, sarcastic joke 3:33:20.440 --> 3:33:23.600 on the newspaper's part, as the rest of the article 3:33:23.720 --> 3:33:27.039 attempts to paint life at the prison Farm as one 3:33:27.200 --> 3:33:33.320 of leisure and respite. According to local folk historian Scott Peterson, 3:33:34.000 --> 3:33:37.959 there is, however, a known burial ground off of Bouldercrest 3:33:38.160 --> 3:33:42.720 and Key Road that contains both marked and unmarked graves 3:33:42.959 --> 3:33:46.680 that was once owned and operated by the prison Farm. Now, 3:33:46.760 --> 3:33:49.960 to be perfectly clear, this burial ground is not on 3:33:50.120 --> 3:33:53.800 the current property slated to become Cops City. The section 3:33:53.840 --> 3:33:56.480 of land that was originally the prison Farm has been 3:33:56.520 --> 3:34:00.200 divided up into many smaller pieces, a few hundred years 3:34:00.200 --> 3:34:02.640 of which the Atlanta Police Foundation is trying to turn 3:34:02.720 --> 3:34:07.440 into the new militarized police training compound. However, the burial 3:34:07.520 --> 3:34:11.160 site that Scott Peterson talks about does tell us that 3:34:11.320 --> 3:34:14.200 a that there is some truth behind at least some 3:34:14.440 --> 3:34:17.560 of the folk stories, and be the prison Farm as 3:34:17.680 --> 3:34:21.840 a whole contained at least some unmarked graves, which leads 3:34:21.920 --> 3:34:24.160 us to believe that there could be others throughout the 3:34:24.240 --> 3:34:28.279 property and that other claims are at least worth taking seriously. 3:34:29.400 --> 3:34:32.080 When the Atlantic Community Press was doing the bulk of 3:34:32.120 --> 3:34:35.879 their historical research last year, they attempted to find death 3:34:36.080 --> 3:34:39.840 and burial records for inmates that died while incarcerated at 3:34:39.879 --> 3:34:44.800 the prison farm through archival digging. Select inmate death and 3:34:45.000 --> 3:34:49.280 burial records were found simply via public reporting. We know 3:34:49.440 --> 3:34:52.520 for certain that at least several deaths occurred in very 3:34:52.560 --> 3:34:56.840 close time spans. One man was sprayed with an insecticide, 3:34:57.040 --> 3:35:01.560 which the warden denies, but which the attending nurse and 3:35:01.879 --> 3:35:07.080 those who sprayed the man corroborate. Samuel Bayon's thirty six 3:35:07.200 --> 3:35:11.080 year old black man quote unquote dropped dead shortly after 3:35:11.240 --> 3:35:15.840 a patrolman woke him up to get dressed. Mark Isaiah 3:35:16.000 --> 3:35:20.960 Willem died after quote unquote becoming sick. In Atlanta Daily World, 3:35:21.080 --> 3:35:25.840 headline reads quote coroner's jury will probe death of prisoner. 3:35:26.280 --> 3:35:31.720 Brown urges full investigation. And that's dated from nineteen fifty three. 3:35:31.920 --> 3:35:36.520 On April, Robert Reynolds, forty nine year old black man 3:35:36.760 --> 3:35:41.000 died from head injuries, prompting an investigation, and in reference 3:35:41.080 --> 3:35:46.600 to Reynolds, Charlie Brown, a nineteen fifty three mayoral candidate, declared, quote, 3:35:46.920 --> 3:35:50.280 approximately ten prisoners have died in the jail in the 3:35:50.400 --> 3:35:57.040 last four years under mysterious circumstances unquote. Despite these known deaths, 3:35:57.440 --> 3:36:01.840 finding official records listing either deaths or burials at the 3:36:01.920 --> 3:36:06.120 site was much more difficult. On top of searching through 3:36:06.240 --> 3:36:10.960 several archives, researchers sent Georgia Open Records Act requests to 3:36:11.080 --> 3:36:14.480 the Police Department, the Department of Corrections, and the Atlantic 3:36:14.560 --> 3:36:18.320 City Council. The Police Department said that the records would 3:36:18.360 --> 3:36:21.320 be in the custody of the Department of Corrections. However, 3:36:21.520 --> 3:36:24.320 the Department of Corrections stated that they are not and 3:36:24.600 --> 3:36:28.320 never were, the custodians of such records. The Atlantic City 3:36:28.400 --> 3:36:32.959 Council replied to requests by sending the inaccurate Jillian Wooton 3:36:33.080 --> 3:36:38.360 History Report, but also connected researchers with a historian. Serena 3:36:38.600 --> 3:36:42.160 McCracken of the Atlanta History Center has said that there's 3:36:42.200 --> 3:36:46.640 a possibility such records simply do not exist, either that 3:36:46.840 --> 3:36:49.200 they were never kept in the first place due to 3:36:49.320 --> 3:36:51.840 laws at the time, or that they were destroyed at 3:36:51.920 --> 3:36:56.000 some point, either due to negligence or an expiring period 3:36:56.160 --> 3:36:59.920 of retention. There is also the possibility that these records 3:37:00.200 --> 3:37:03.720 do exist and simply have not been yet found. They 3:37:03.760 --> 3:37:06.720 could have been misfiled, or requests could have been sent 3:37:06.840 --> 3:37:10.039 to the wrong agency, or they could just be sitting 3:37:10.160 --> 3:37:12.800 in a box of mill doing records still on the 3:37:12.959 --> 3:37:16.400 land today, as so many other records were when the 3:37:16.520 --> 3:37:19.440 city finally shut down the site, many of which are 3:37:19.520 --> 3:37:23.360 now lost forever in the ensuing fires and other ravages 3:37:23.520 --> 3:37:27.720 of time. In the Georgia Archives file on the prison farm, 3:37:28.040 --> 3:37:32.600 a memo was discovered describing procedures for the death of inmates. 3:37:33.440 --> 3:37:36.800 The memo says that upon a prisoner's death, their nearest 3:37:36.920 --> 3:37:40.640 kin should be notified. If the body is not claimed, quote, 3:37:41.000 --> 3:37:43.800 then the body shall be given a pauper's burial not 3:37:44.000 --> 3:37:49.400 to exceed fifty dollars unquote. Such burials don't always include 3:37:49.400 --> 3:37:53.280 a headstone, but rather a marker or a burial flag, 3:37:53.520 --> 3:37:57.240 which can easily erode away or become invisible over time. 3:37:58.320 --> 3:38:02.360 Not all unmarked graves on the site necessarily exist within 3:38:02.400 --> 3:38:06.360 a traditional grave plot. According to Scott Peterson, who has 3:38:06.400 --> 3:38:09.240 collected folk stories and oral histories about the land for 3:38:09.640 --> 3:38:13.160 twenty years. There is another plot next to an old 3:38:13.240 --> 3:38:16.640 oak tree and sunken in structure that was once used 3:38:16.760 --> 3:38:20.800 to shade the warden during lynch ings. This would of 3:38:20.879 --> 3:38:25.720 course be not legal, but as we've talked about, legality 3:38:25.840 --> 3:38:29.800 does not always dictate the behaviors of prison farm wardens, 3:38:30.520 --> 3:38:34.200 and there are records of cases of runaways at other 3:38:34.360 --> 3:38:37.160 prison farms that were later discovered to have been killed 3:38:37.280 --> 3:38:41.000 and buried on site. As such, these claims are not 3:38:41.080 --> 3:38:44.879 outside the bounds of possibility, and, if anything, are highly likely. 3:38:46.040 --> 3:38:49.120 There are also many similarities between the conditions at the 3:38:49.160 --> 3:38:52.840 prison farm and those of the Brandon Indian Residential School 3:38:53.240 --> 3:38:56.160 that would lead to the need to bury many bodies 3:38:56.280 --> 3:39:01.640 without necessarily keeping tight records. Katherine and Nicole thesis details 3:39:01.840 --> 3:39:06.000 a history of airborne diseases aggravated by factors such as 3:39:06.160 --> 3:39:11.960 poor sanitation and ventilation, lack of medical attention, malnutrition, violence 3:39:12.000 --> 3:39:16.560 and abuse, overwork and accidents, and harsh punishment of runaways, 3:39:17.320 --> 3:39:20.600 all of which are also seen throughout the prison Farm's history. 3:39:21.600 --> 3:39:24.520 I don't want to draw too tight a comparison between 3:39:24.560 --> 3:39:28.120 the prison farm and other places and other events, it 3:39:28.280 --> 3:39:32.360 is worth looking at other similar situations as something that 3:39:32.600 --> 3:39:36.400 shows that the question of unmarked graves is not unfounded 3:39:36.600 --> 3:39:41.920 nor uncharacteristic of the institutions of the time. There have 3:39:42.120 --> 3:39:47.360 been several other instances where institutions with similar conditions were 3:39:47.480 --> 3:39:51.480 later found to have unmarked graves, burial grounds, or other 3:39:51.680 --> 3:39:56.440 human remains. Human remains. In sugar Land, Texas, near the 3:39:56.520 --> 3:40:01.440 old Imperial Prison Farm, there were found have quote belonged 3:40:01.480 --> 3:40:05.080 to prisoners who worked on the land once used as 3:40:05.160 --> 3:40:09.800 a sugar plantation unquote. An article from the Tyler Morning 3:40:10.120 --> 3:40:15.600 Telegraph describes life of physical abuse, forced labor, and poor nutrition, 3:40:16.200 --> 3:40:20.760 much like the prison farm in Atlanta. Similarly to Atlanta, quote, 3:40:21.280 --> 3:40:24.200 it wasn't until it became clear that these abuses were 3:40:24.240 --> 3:40:28.680 widespread and affecting white prisoners that public opinions started to 3:40:28.879 --> 3:40:34.199 shift unquote. In Arkansas, in nineteen sixty eight, a reformist 3:40:34.320 --> 3:40:39.000 superintendent of Cummins Prison Farm discovered the remains of three 3:40:39.120 --> 3:40:44.720 former prisoners. His discovery quote made international news, embarrassed Governor 3:40:44.879 --> 3:40:50.080 Winthrop Rockefeller, and infuriated conservative politicians. It also led to 3:40:50.320 --> 3:40:56.160 merchants firing and banishment from the field of prison management unquote. Finally, 3:40:56.640 --> 3:41:00.879 although the Brandon Indian Residential School was a prison farm, 3:41:01.440 --> 3:41:05.120 archival research points to conditions for the prisoners held at 3:41:05.160 --> 3:41:08.240 the Atlanta prison Farm that are not dissimilar from the 3:41:08.280 --> 3:41:12.199 conditions of the children held at the Brandon Indian Residential School. 3:41:12.879 --> 3:41:18.040 We see lacking healthcare, poor sanitation and ventilation, malnutrition, violence 3:41:18.040 --> 3:41:21.840 and abuse, a heavy workload, accidents, and harsh punishments all 3:41:21.959 --> 3:41:25.960 contributed to the deaths there, and each of those factors 3:41:26.280 --> 3:41:30.400 has been demonstrated via archival research to have existed on 3:41:30.560 --> 3:41:34.760 the prison farm in Atlanta. As mentioned at the beginning 3:41:34.879 --> 3:41:38.320 of the first episode, this is not an exhaustive or 3:41:38.480 --> 3:41:43.800 comprehensive history. Further research is necessary, and hopefully, as explained 3:41:43.840 --> 3:41:48.840 by the past few episodes, is extremely warranted. However, what's 3:41:48.879 --> 3:41:52.040 laid out here and in the Atlantic community presses other 3:41:52.160 --> 3:41:57.200 work already changes our fundamental understanding of the Atlanta prison farm. 3:41:58.040 --> 3:42:01.480 Far from a federal program ending in the sixties before 3:42:01.600 --> 3:42:05.440 being essentially abandoned, we saw that the Atlanta prison Farm 3:42:05.560 --> 3:42:08.360 on Key Road was a city run from the very 3:42:08.480 --> 3:42:13.160 beginning and the direct continuation of the already cruel stockade. 3:42:13.959 --> 3:42:17.600 Contrary to popular belief, it was run continuously from the 3:42:17.680 --> 3:42:22.160 early twenties up into the nineteen nineties, it was a 3:42:22.280 --> 3:42:26.240 completely different property than the Honor Farm. Despite many, including 3:42:26.280 --> 3:42:29.640 the Atlanta Police Foundation, continuing to use that phrase when 3:42:29.760 --> 3:42:33.520 referring to the site. At the city run prison farm, 3:42:33.840 --> 3:42:37.800 atrocious conditions persisted across the better part of a century 3:42:38.480 --> 3:42:41.760 and ongoing into what we would consider the modern era, 3:42:42.440 --> 3:42:45.840 despite claims at each stage that the bad times were 3:42:45.920 --> 3:42:50.160 behind us and a new era lay ahead. There is 3:42:50.240 --> 3:42:53.280 a documented history of the city prioritizing its ability to 3:42:53.440 --> 3:42:58.600 cut costs with prison labor, essentially extending slavery, Extensive records 3:42:58.720 --> 3:43:03.320 of physical and emotional abuse, torture, forced labor, overwork, a 3:43:03.400 --> 3:43:07.760 lack of healthcare for sanitation, overcrowding, and poor nutrition ranging 3:43:07.840 --> 3:43:12.160 throughout the entire history of the site. Nearly every stage 3:43:12.160 --> 3:43:15.760 of leadership has gotten caught breaking rules and laws while 3:43:15.800 --> 3:43:19.920 avoiding the same carcetral fate as the prisoners, as well 3:43:20.000 --> 3:43:23.160 as a reluctance by city officials to enact policies that 3:43:23.200 --> 3:43:26.480 would truly alleviate these harms and attempt to make up 3:43:26.520 --> 3:43:32.240 for them, rather ensuring that power remains continuous, as is 3:43:32.280 --> 3:43:35.640 the case with cops city. This history demonstrates how Atlantic 3:43:35.680 --> 3:43:38.960 City government is perfectly fine with over ruling rights of 3:43:39.040 --> 3:43:42.960 the residents of Decab County who are disenfranchised from the city. 3:43:43.720 --> 3:43:46.440 With the Atlanta Police Foundation and the city getting closer 3:43:46.480 --> 3:43:50.560 and closer to deforestation and facility construction, the window of 3:43:50.600 --> 3:43:54.760 opportunity is shrinking for further on the ground historical research. 3:43:55.640 --> 3:43:58.240 The fact that they've yet to meet the requirements for 3:43:58.360 --> 3:44:03.160 the full environmental assessment, let alone the careful historical analysis 3:44:03.280 --> 3:44:06.920 necessary considering the history of the land, means that the 3:44:07.000 --> 3:44:10.040 city is not only physically erasing the history of the 3:44:10.160 --> 3:44:15.080 lives it's destroyed, but also risking the possibility of desecrating 3:44:15.120 --> 3:44:19.080 their graves in the process. A guest column in the 3:44:19.120 --> 3:44:23.959 Supporter Report by Lilly Ponins, an environmental engineer and now 3:44:24.240 --> 3:44:27.960 former member of the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee for the 3:44:28.120 --> 3:44:32.760 Atlanta Public Safety Training Center ak A COP City, gave 3:44:32.879 --> 3:44:36.039 us an inside look at how the development of COPS 3:44:36.040 --> 3:44:40.000 City is knowingly and willingly refusing to do their due 3:44:40.000 --> 3:44:45.480 diligence assessments and pave over decades of corstral history. Quote. 3:44:45.800 --> 3:44:48.920 Since joining the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee for the Atlanta 3:44:49.000 --> 3:44:52.800 Public Safety Training Center. I've observed the developers from Da 3:44:52.840 --> 3:44:57.160 Vinci Development Collaborative, along with the Atlanta Police Foundation, mislead 3:44:57.200 --> 3:44:59.840 the community into believing that they are following a legitimate, 3:45:00.080 --> 3:45:04.600 regulated environmental due diligence process. In reality, they are doing 3:45:04.720 --> 3:45:08.160 less than the minimum to meet the legally defined standards 3:45:08.440 --> 3:45:12.640 for environmental site assessment reporting and are breaking the trust 3:45:12.720 --> 3:45:16.280 of stakeholders and the terms of their ground lease agreement 3:45:16.400 --> 3:45:20.160 with the City of Atlanta. Given the historical operation as 3:45:20.200 --> 3:45:26.000 a prison farm and plantation prior to that conditions violence, abuse, accidents, 3:45:26.080 --> 3:45:29.840 and harsh punishments, it is reasonable to believe that areas 3:45:29.920 --> 3:45:34.039 of the property could contain human remains in unmarked graves. 3:45:34.800 --> 3:45:39.680 This was never investigated. Comments and professional input from myself 3:45:39.879 --> 3:45:44.080 and others on the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee were brushed off, 3:45:44.400 --> 3:45:49.320 and no additional site investigations were considered beyond the limited 3:45:49.480 --> 3:45:53.520 site investigation. To remedy this, the City of Atlanta must 3:45:53.720 --> 3:45:57.360 force the development team to act responsibly by requiring a 3:45:57.440 --> 3:46:01.320 proper phase to environmental site assessment. If they fail to 3:46:01.360 --> 3:46:04.480 do so, taxpayers are likely to foot the bill for 3:46:04.600 --> 3:46:09.560 the remediation that is being ignored or for the complicated 3:46:09.640 --> 3:46:14.320 litigation that will arise when this development team disturbs human 3:46:14.480 --> 3:46:19.400 remains on this site unquote. A few months ago, Lily 3:46:19.520 --> 3:46:24.119 Pontins was kicked off the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee after 3:46:24.280 --> 3:46:28.920 writing this column. Both the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee and 3:46:29.160 --> 3:46:32.840 COPS City have repeatedly been made aware that the assessments 3:46:32.879 --> 3:46:36.879 they've done failed to meet environmental requirements, and the reports 3:46:36.920 --> 3:46:39.360 that they're using to base decisions off of and green 3:46:39.480 --> 3:46:43.920 light proposals have been shown to be inaccurate. As far 3:46:44.160 --> 3:46:50.400 as responding to City council, APF enlisted Terra Con to 3:46:50.640 --> 3:46:57.200 write a cultural report. This report was highly inaccurate due 3:46:57.320 --> 3:47:04.439 to relying on the Billian Luten report. I personally emailed 3:47:04.520 --> 3:47:10.920 City Council as Atlantic community press collective and as I've 3:47:11.000 --> 3:47:14.480 repeatedly told them, hey, this is incorrect, this is why, 3:47:15.600 --> 3:47:20.640 here's proof. This is really disgusting and sad that you 3:47:20.840 --> 3:47:27.360 refuse to acknowledge any of this history. And ironically, a 3:47:27.520 --> 3:47:32.400 month or two later, another report comes out that's slightly better, 3:47:33.040 --> 3:47:37.920 slightly revised, but still has that whitewashed aspect that the 3:47:37.959 --> 3:47:42.680 original one did. I had the misfortune to recently need 3:47:42.800 --> 3:47:47.800 to reread the terra con report um, and I don't 3:47:47.840 --> 3:47:53.960 believe they they address when the city supposedly took over 3:47:54.040 --> 3:47:56.480 the prison the federal farm at all. I don't think 3:47:56.520 --> 3:47:59.440 they discussed that date in the slightest. But the Bluten 3:47:59.480 --> 3:48:02.680 report they draw from, I think she just says sometime 3:48:02.720 --> 3:48:05.400 in the fifties, which was how we figured out because 3:48:05.440 --> 3:48:07.320 we were trying to nail down the date of the fifties, 3:48:07.360 --> 3:48:08.680 and when we had to go back and back and 3:48:08.760 --> 3:48:12.120 back and back and back. We found out when the 3:48:12.200 --> 3:48:14.840 city purchased the land by literally just going to the 3:48:14.920 --> 3:48:21.600 decap history archives at the courthouse and looking them up. 3:48:24.200 --> 3:48:29.199 A fairly quick process in terms of research that APF 3:48:29.520 --> 3:48:35.200 obviously didn't hair or bother to look into at all. 3:48:35.959 --> 3:48:39.760 Obviously the City of Atlanta didn't either. Yeah. In her 3:48:39.840 --> 3:48:44.280 residential school thesis, Katherine Nichols lays out a robust process 3:48:44.600 --> 3:48:49.960 for unobtrusively examining possibilities of human remains while respecting the 3:48:50.040 --> 3:48:55.920 communities affected. Her process involves thorough archival research, including the 3:48:56.080 --> 3:48:59.920 use of oral histories and unconfirmed local knowledge to general 3:49:00.520 --> 3:49:04.960 leads for a deeper investigation. This archivalrysearch is then situated 3:49:05.000 --> 3:49:09.200 alongside the currently existing literature on the subject. She then 3:49:09.240 --> 3:49:13.360 conducts qualitative interviews with local community members and family members 3:49:13.440 --> 3:49:17.960 of those affected. She stresses that this qualitative information is 3:49:18.000 --> 3:49:19.640 not to be written off just because it does not 3:49:19.800 --> 3:49:23.840 align with records that the state institutions consider to be legitimate. 3:49:24.480 --> 3:49:27.040 And finally, she lays out a method for field research 3:49:27.160 --> 3:49:33.520 including site reconnaissance, field walking and probing, site preparation, controlled burns, mapping, 3:49:33.760 --> 3:49:39.760 aerial photography, soil profiles, metal detector surveys, ground penetrating radar, 3:49:40.160 --> 3:49:44.640 and ground conductivity surveys, all checked against controls to ensure 3:49:44.680 --> 3:49:47.520 that they align with the results of the same methods 3:49:47.640 --> 3:49:52.080 on previously known unmarked grave sites. Crucially, all of this 3:49:52.320 --> 3:49:55.680 is done with the consent of the relevant communities and 3:49:55.880 --> 3:50:00.720 is done unobtrusively as to not disturb the graves. Now 3:50:00.760 --> 3:50:05.040 that the construction process has ostensibly started, Um, how does 3:50:05.080 --> 3:50:10.800 that factor into, like, you know, disturbing the grounds where 3:50:10.960 --> 3:50:14.200 there could be no all of this history that is 3:50:14.600 --> 3:50:18.440 being unearthed and kind of paved over top of. Um, 3:50:18.800 --> 3:50:20.960 how does that kind of impact the ability to do 3:50:22.280 --> 3:50:26.600 ethical research going forward into the history of this land. So, 3:50:26.960 --> 3:50:30.680 for one thing, we talked on and off with a 3:50:30.800 --> 3:50:36.360 handful of archaeologists and anthropologists and related fields about if 3:50:37.160 --> 3:50:39.720 we were going to go onto the prison farm property 3:50:40.000 --> 3:50:46.280 and conduct a search for grape sites or other historical information, like, 3:50:46.800 --> 3:50:48.800 we have no legal way to do that. It would 3:50:48.840 --> 3:50:53.920 be trespassing. And we also know that from the quote 3:50:54.000 --> 3:50:59.920 unquote cultural report that the Police Foundation had done, they 3:51:00.040 --> 3:51:03.040 didn't really do that kind of search. Um, they were 3:51:03.120 --> 3:51:06.920 mostly searching for evidence of I guess you could say 3:51:06.960 --> 3:51:13.160 indigenous artifacts, not let's say bodies buried in the nineteen twenties. 3:51:14.280 --> 3:51:19.200 So the ability to do on site historical research is 3:51:20.400 --> 3:51:22.560 it kind of depends on, Hey, how willing are you 3:51:22.640 --> 3:51:26.400 to get picked up for felony trespassing because that's a 3:51:26.480 --> 3:51:29.480 charge they can put on you. It definitely feels like 3:51:29.520 --> 3:51:32.160 we're up against a clock. I'm just going to add 3:51:32.200 --> 3:51:34.760 on to that. I feel like one of the issues 3:51:34.840 --> 3:51:38.560 that we've definitely come across, as far as looking for 3:51:39.840 --> 3:51:43.520 graves that are related to the prison farm, your options 3:51:43.560 --> 3:51:47.880 are pretty much grund Prendy trading radar or what they 3:51:47.920 --> 3:51:53.480 call cadaver dogs. Cadaver dogs theoretically can sniff up to 3:51:53.560 --> 3:51:58.280 a hundred years. From what I've read, how many people 3:51:58.320 --> 3:52:02.200 have connections to cadaver dogs honestly, and then also the 3:52:03.080 --> 3:52:07.400 just logistics of attempting to get ground penetrating radar in 3:52:08.000 --> 3:52:14.720 a forest UM is definitely difficult. Are you worried as 3:52:15.040 --> 3:52:20.000 construction continues that even if stuff is discovered, whether that 3:52:20.080 --> 3:52:23.000 be unmarked graves or you know other other various other 3:52:23.080 --> 3:52:27.200 things that do you have any any level of confidence 3:52:27.240 --> 3:52:30.240 that if things are found they'll even go public? Or 3:52:30.240 --> 3:52:32.640 are you worried that if they find things they'll just 3:52:33.680 --> 3:52:38.000 cover it up? Basically, I have absolutely zero faith. I 3:52:38.040 --> 3:52:40.440 mean to me that I have absolutely zero faith to 3:52:40.520 --> 3:52:43.480 directly ensure a question. I have absolutely zero faith that 3:52:44.400 --> 3:52:47.640 anything that is found will be preserved. UM. We also 3:52:47.680 --> 3:52:51.640 have it on fairly good authority that the issuing of 3:52:51.720 --> 3:52:56.520 construction permits is imminent. UM. The cab kine of Commissioner 3:52:56.640 --> 3:53:03.160 Ted Terry is are our best uh legal ally, if 3:53:03.200 --> 3:53:06.680 you will um our best government ally. He last week, 3:53:06.800 --> 3:53:12.000 during the Week of Action, introduced UM a resolution that 3:53:12.080 --> 3:53:18.320 would ask Dicab County CEO Michael Thurmond to basically make 3:53:18.400 --> 3:53:21.320 a series of asks himself of the City of Atlanta. 3:53:21.760 --> 3:53:24.880 This is basically legally the most the County Commission can 3:53:24.960 --> 3:53:28.040 do and it is all incumbent upon the CEO of 3:53:28.120 --> 3:53:31.600 the county to actually do these things. UM hope is 3:53:31.720 --> 3:53:34.560 not great for the county CEO to do any of 3:53:34.640 --> 3:53:39.440 these things. But um ted Terry, among other things, asked 3:53:39.480 --> 3:53:42.400 for additional environmental studies, which by the way, they are 3:53:42.440 --> 3:53:46.600 required to do in the lease. He asked for additional 3:53:47.520 --> 3:53:52.760 historical research and full disclosure. He actually cited the Press 3:53:52.840 --> 3:53:56.480 Collective's history report we did last summer in the legislation, 3:53:56.600 --> 3:54:00.120 which was both he's a state actor, but also you've 3:54:00.120 --> 3:54:03.040 got to admit that's kind of cool. Um, it was 3:54:03.520 --> 3:54:08.400 gratifying to see our work receive a fairly high level 3:54:08.480 --> 3:54:14.160 of recognition. Additional environmental studies, historical research, noise studies, and 3:54:14.360 --> 3:54:18.320 ultimately he asks that the CEO asked the city to 3:54:18.560 --> 3:54:23.560 consider just relocating the site completely. I think something that 3:54:23.640 --> 3:54:27.840 we need to take into consideration throughout this entire research 3:54:28.000 --> 3:54:31.760 process is that a lot of the records that we 3:54:31.920 --> 3:54:37.080 have access to our newspaper, the primary newspaper service we 3:54:37.120 --> 3:54:38.920 have access to is the a j C, which we 3:54:39.160 --> 3:54:44.120 have a clear we have clear proof that a j 3:54:44.280 --> 3:54:47.680 C continues to be racist, continues to focus on the 3:54:47.800 --> 3:54:51.400 narrative that they would like to project as far as 3:54:52.600 --> 3:54:57.360 being accomplices to the police and to a p F 3:54:58.200 --> 3:55:06.000 and how that correlates to this city's history and mishandling 3:55:06.080 --> 3:55:11.040 of this piece of land. Um. When we were looking 3:55:11.280 --> 3:55:17.160 through older articles, they are handful of papers. There's the 3:55:17.200 --> 3:55:20.200 Great Sparckled Bird, which is as so it's a student 3:55:20.280 --> 3:55:27.120 run newspaper. This one, I'm assuming, just based on the 3:55:27.240 --> 3:55:32.680 sixties and seventies time frame, that there's a decent chance 3:55:32.920 --> 3:55:35.440 that it was primarily written by white people. I do 3:55:35.600 --> 3:55:38.800 not have proof of that. I'm just going on with 3:55:38.960 --> 3:55:43.920 gut feeling with that. So there is a probably a 3:55:43.960 --> 3:55:48.520 bit of bias, but it really does start to give 3:55:48.680 --> 3:55:51.560 a different picture of the people that were sent to 3:55:53.240 --> 3:55:56.280 the prison from There were several g SU students who 3:55:56.320 --> 3:55:58.600 were sent there and they were put in the whole. 3:55:59.400 --> 3:56:01.320 One was put the whole just because he had long 3:56:01.400 --> 3:56:04.600 hair and he refused to cut his hair, so they said, 3:56:04.840 --> 3:56:08.320 you know what, you're going into isolation, have fun um 3:56:08.440 --> 3:56:11.440 and he was there for a little bit. It's important 3:56:11.520 --> 3:56:14.800 to reiterate that throughout much of the archival research that 3:56:14.920 --> 3:56:18.680 produced these findings, the bulk of the articles discovered were 3:56:18.720 --> 3:56:22.480 from the Atlanta Journal, The Atlantic Constitution, and the Atlanta 3:56:22.520 --> 3:56:27.240 Journal Constitution after the two merged. Though these papers reported 3:56:27.320 --> 3:56:30.520 on bad conditions once they had become public, and in 3:56:30.600 --> 3:56:33.840 two cases were responsible for investigative work that made these 3:56:33.880 --> 3:56:39.200 conditions public. These white run papers, much like many major newspapers, 3:56:39.600 --> 3:56:42.040 have a known history of racism and support for the 3:56:42.080 --> 3:56:47.680 police state and carcetral institutions. We therefore believe that a 3:56:47.880 --> 3:56:52.040 thorough search through archives of black run newspapers such as 3:56:52.160 --> 3:56:56.840 the Atlanta Daily, World, magazines and other publications is necessary 3:56:57.120 --> 3:57:01.320 to gain a more complete understanding of the history. Both 3:57:01.520 --> 3:57:05.640 myself and the researchers that put this history together are 3:57:05.880 --> 3:57:09.400 furthermore white, and so it is possible that our own 3:57:09.520 --> 3:57:13.120 biases and blind spots could be present in this reporting. 3:57:13.840 --> 3:57:16.760 We strongly believe that a more complete accounting of this 3:57:16.960 --> 3:57:20.360 history could be undertaken by people who have been more 3:57:20.560 --> 3:57:24.440 directly affected, and hope that these episodes and the research 3:57:24.640 --> 3:57:27.720 they're based on, is not taken as the end of 3:57:27.800 --> 3:57:31.280 the story, but just a beginning and an invitation to 3:57:31.440 --> 3:57:35.440 further scrutiny. Is there really any way to continue the 3:57:35.520 --> 3:57:40.720 research that would be necessary to actually preserve the history 3:57:40.840 --> 3:57:46.880 and keep people knowledgeable about the atrocities that's happened the 3:57:46.920 --> 3:57:50.600 past hundred plus years, Like with if construction continues, is 3:57:50.640 --> 3:57:52.240 there even a way to do this now or is 3:57:52.360 --> 3:57:56.080 that clock really just running out? So I think one 3:57:56.120 --> 3:57:59.760 of the biggest hurdles as far as preserving the history 3:58:00.520 --> 3:58:04.920 is honestly just getting people to care about it, because 3:58:05.960 --> 3:58:12.880 it's not sexy. It's not people in tree houses. It's 3:58:13.760 --> 3:58:18.840 sitting on a computer just skimming through thousands of articles. 3:58:19.200 --> 3:58:22.480 No one cares that in two the a c l 3:58:22.600 --> 3:58:25.640 You sued the city because they were using illegal in 3:58:26.240 --> 3:58:30.600 unconstitutional punishments. Nobody really cares about that kind of stuff. 3:58:30.640 --> 3:58:33.640 It's not that exciting in the grand scheme of things, 3:58:34.640 --> 3:58:38.040 but it's part of the history, and it's part of 3:58:38.240 --> 3:58:41.000 what has led us to where we are now with 3:58:41.160 --> 3:58:45.600 Cops City and with that that wraps up our miniseries 3:58:46.280 --> 3:58:49.520 on the very much incomplete history of the old Atlanta 3:58:49.640 --> 3:58:53.520 Prison Farm. The fact that there's seemingly little to know 3:58:53.840 --> 3:58:57.240 original official records to learn from because they were either 3:58:57.600 --> 3:59:00.880 trashed or never kept in the first place, is itself 3:59:01.240 --> 3:59:04.560 cover up and denial of history and gross denial of 3:59:04.640 --> 3:59:07.880 the experiences of trauma and oppression of those who are 3:59:07.920 --> 3:59:11.320 subjected to the horrors of the prison farm. It's bad 3:59:11.440 --> 3:59:14.240 enough that the city couldn't be bothered to remember the history, 3:59:14.880 --> 3:59:19.880 but crucially they're bulldozed over. Police endorsed narrative in whatever 3:59:20.280 --> 3:59:23.920 museum or plaque they want to create cannot be allowed 3:59:24.000 --> 3:59:26.840 to become the story of the prison farm. And it's 3:59:26.960 --> 3:59:30.960 many atrocities that we are still rediscovering. There is still 3:59:31.080 --> 3:59:33.240 a long way to go and we have barely scratched 3:59:33.320 --> 3:59:36.720 the surface. Hopefully this is just the start of more 3:59:36.800 --> 3:59:40.520 people paying attention to the forgotten histories like this and 3:59:40.640 --> 3:59:44.320 then going out and doing further digging. You can check 3:59:44.320 --> 3:59:47.040 out the Atlantic Community Press Collective and they're great reporting 3:59:47.320 --> 3:59:51.520 at a t L Press Collective dot com or Atlanta 3:59:51.720 --> 4:00:00.280 Underscore Press on Twitter. See you all on the other side. Hey, 4:00:00.400 --> 4:00:03.480 we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 4:00:03.520 --> 4:00:06.360 now until the heat death of the universe. It could happen. 4:00:06.440 --> 4:00:08.720 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 4:00:08.760 --> 4:00:11.560 podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 4:00:11.600 --> 4:00:13.400 Media dot com, or check us out on the I 4:00:13.520 --> 4:00:16.760 Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 4:00:17.200 --> 4:00:19.280 You can find sources for it could happen here. Updated 4:00:19.400 --> 4:00:22.840 monthly at cool Zone Media dot com Slash sources. Thanks 4:00:22.880 --> 4:00:23.360 for listening.