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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Welcome Today can happen here

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Speaker 1: a podcast about fighting your bosses? Uh, this is this

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Speaker 1: is your house. Christopher Wong and with me today to

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Speaker 1: talk about fighting bosses and bosses doing incredibly illegal stuff,

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Speaker 1: bosses doing incredibly shady stuff and why you should fight

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Speaker 1: them more is Tori Tamblini, who was a partner organizer

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Speaker 1: from Pittsburgh Starbucks Workers United and was fired from Starbucks

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Speaker 1: like very illegally, under very sketchy circumstances. Tory, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Thanks so much. I'm excited to be here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I really really happy to have you here. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I I guess I guess we should start with

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Speaker 1: the whole you were denied, you were you were, you

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Speaker 1: were denied your leagual of rights and then fired presumably

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Speaker 1: for union organizing thing. Yes, absolutely so starting from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: and there was like I was so a month ago

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Speaker 1: my store manager sat me down, and I like, he

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Speaker 1: asked me to come downstairs for a conversation. So I

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Speaker 1: brought a witness with me and we went downstairs, and

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Speaker 1: I found out that I was being investigated because there

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Speaker 1: was one day that I had written down my weekday

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Speaker 1: start time instead of my weekend to start time. They

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Speaker 1: just recently changed things at my store so that we

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Speaker 1: opened at we start opening shifts at five thirty on

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Speaker 1: the weekends and five on the weekdays. And this is

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Speaker 1: a recent change up. I had been there for three years,

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Speaker 1: so I out of habit one day had written five

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Speaker 1: in the book instead of five thirty. Um, a couple

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Speaker 1: of months later, it seems like everything has blown over.

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Speaker 1: They accept of the fact that it was just an

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Speaker 1: innocent mistake. I really wasn't trying to steal thirty minutes

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Speaker 1: of time, which comes out to like what six dollars

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Speaker 1: after that, Like, yeah, I was really desperate for that

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Speaker 1: six dollars. So I figured they just they knew it

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Speaker 1: was an innocent mistake, and it wasn't going to be

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Speaker 1: a further issue until I saw two managers in my store.

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Speaker 1: One of them was my store manager, the other one

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Speaker 1: was Her name is Brittany. And what Starbucks has done

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Speaker 1: recently is that they've created this new position in the company.

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Speaker 1: From my understanding, it's called support manager, and they're basically

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Speaker 1: like an assistant district manager, and they go around two

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Speaker 1: stores where there's any sort of union activity and they

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Speaker 1: try to talk about strategies to squash it. So it's like, basically,

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Speaker 1: the store manager that did the most harsh union busting

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Speaker 1: at their own store gets promoted to this position. So

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Speaker 1: in my district, the person's name is Brittany, and I

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Speaker 1: saw her in my store, which is always a bad sign.

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Speaker 1: And um, at one point they asked me to have

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Speaker 1: a seat for a conversation. So I sit down own,

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Speaker 1: and well, before I sit down, I say, is this

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Speaker 1: a disciplinary conversation? And the manager said the one manager

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Speaker 1: said to me, yes, this is solely a disciplinary conversation.

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Speaker 1: And I said, I would like to invoke my wine

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Speaker 1: button rights. I'm going to go out to the floor

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Speaker 1: and bring somebody back as a witness. And they said,

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Speaker 1: you can't do that today. And basically what they did

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Speaker 1: is they like held up a piece of paper like

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Speaker 1: with a wall of text on it, like this far

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Speaker 1: from my face, and they're like, it says right here

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Speaker 1: that we can't we don't have to do that for you.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, that's really illegal and I'm not

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Speaker 1: comfortable having this conversation right now at all. And they said, well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to hand this to you anyway, and handed

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Speaker 1: me a notice of termination. Um. Yeah, So I walked

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Speaker 1: out and walked back to the front of house and

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Speaker 1: I said a little bit loudly, definitely not like shouting,

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Speaker 1: but kind of loudly. I said, I just got fired,

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Speaker 1: And is it okay if I swear to quote my friend? Okay? Cool.

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Speaker 1: So my best friend Kim was working at the time,

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Speaker 1: and she loudly said, right in front of our new

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Speaker 1: store manager, what the fuck? And I just kept walking

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Speaker 1: because I was so upset and I didn't want the

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Speaker 1: managers to see me cry. So I walked to the

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Speaker 1: front of house or walk outside, and Kim follows me

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Speaker 1: and she was like, we're going to fix this. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go ask relieve early and I'll drive you home

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about this Kim goes back inside, looks

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Speaker 1: at my assistant manager and says, I'm a question permission

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Speaker 1: to leave early. And the assistant manager literally couldn't even

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Speaker 1: look her in the eye and told her Kim go

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Speaker 1: have a seat in the back, and they fired Kim

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Speaker 1: as well. Jesus. Yeah, yeah, And I think when everything

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Speaker 1: about the story I think is worth talking about is

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Speaker 1: that like when when it comes to union busting, it

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Speaker 1: literally does not matter how good of an employee you are,

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Speaker 1: unblessed like you not being there will literally cause everything

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Speaker 1: to collapse. But yeah, I don't talk about like you

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Speaker 1: were really good at this, and they were still just

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Speaker 1: like no, fuck you. Yeah. So I was voted by

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Speaker 1: everybody at my store. I was voted Partner of the

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Speaker 1: Order in spring of I was also promoted a shift

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Speaker 1: supervisor within that same week, and later that year, I

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Speaker 1: participated in a Barista competition for my store and I

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Speaker 1: won Barista Champion for my store level, and I also

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Speaker 1: tied at the district level for Barista Champion for the district.

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Speaker 1: So um. And then in addition to that, I had

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Speaker 1: dealt with a situation where somebody like leaning against the

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Speaker 1: front of my store had overdosed on heroin and I

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Speaker 1: gave him an arcam and basically saved the guy's life,

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Speaker 1: and then like a month or two later they fired me.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, which, like I'm trying to think of if

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Speaker 1: like any other way you can possibly go like above

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Speaker 1: and beyond what anyone could reasonably require you, that is

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Speaker 1: more than I saved a dude's life. It's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: like you're welcome, guys. Someone would have died inside your

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Speaker 1: store if I wasn't there, but okay, by I guess. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit about about that,

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Speaker 1: specifically in about sort of the conditions at this store,

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Speaker 1: because one of the things that seems really clear from

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Speaker 1: from listening to you talk about it and from reading

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Speaker 1: stuff about it is that it's not just I mean,

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Speaker 1: even if you were just like you know, doing kind

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Speaker 1: of regular issue service like service workers stuff, this would

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Speaker 1: be unaccessable. But it's also like there's there's this way

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Speaker 1: in which you and your co workers have sort of

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Speaker 1: been turned into social workers and are being sort of

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Speaker 1: are being forced to like deal with just all of

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Speaker 1: the people who sort of capitalism to say of just

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Speaker 1: like spat out. Yeah, and sort of like fill in

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Speaker 1: the gaps of just the collapse of American social services.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I wanted, Yeah, I wondered if you could

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the stuff that you've been

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Speaker 1: having to do and what that's like. Yeah. Absolutely, So.

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Speaker 1: Something I've noticed in the market square is that it

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Speaker 1: feels like there were some sort of resources for the

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Speaker 1: unhoused community that existed before the pandemic. That's straight up

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Speaker 1: just don't exist anymore. So a lot of that that

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Speaker 1: work to be done, like falls on the Starbucks employees.

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Speaker 1: Most of us are completely unqualified for that, Like I

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Speaker 1: have a degree in psychology, but sometimes that's just not

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Speaker 1: really enough. Most of us are film students at Point Park,

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Speaker 1: so none of us are all equipped to deal with

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Speaker 1: any situations where somebody is under the influence of something

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Speaker 1: and maybe becoming aggressive, or somebody is having a mental

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Speaker 1: health crisis, or there are people that are sleeping in

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Speaker 1: the cafe and we're asked to pick them out if

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Speaker 1: they're sleeping. But that feels really really bad because there's

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Speaker 1: not a ton of other resources, especially during the day.

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Speaker 1: I know, the shelters closed, so when it's like winter

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Speaker 1: or it's like ninety degrees outside and someone is just

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Speaker 1: trying to get like a tiny little bit of sleep,

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Speaker 1: it feels really bad to kick them out. Um. So

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Speaker 1: we dealt with a lot of situations that we are

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Speaker 1: just completely unequipped to handle. And Starbucks was send us

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Speaker 1: de escalation training, but most of the de escalation training

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Speaker 1: revolved around if a customer isn't happy with their drink

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Speaker 1: and they're shouting at you, So it doesn't even begin

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Speaker 1: to cover like any of the stuff that we deal

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Speaker 1: with at Market Square. We had like we've we've seen

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Speaker 1: a lot of customers having mental health crisis in the cafe,

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Speaker 1: Like what do you do? Like I don't want to

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Speaker 1: call the police. That's definitely not going to help. UM.

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Speaker 1: In the situation where I had to narcan somebody, the

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Speaker 1: we had called for an ambulance and twenty minutes later

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Speaker 1: the ambulance still wasn't there, And they were even managers

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Speaker 1: at the surrounding businesses calling and calling and calling trying

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Speaker 1: to get an ambulance to Market Square and it ended

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Speaker 1: up like being me that had to give them a narcan. Um. Overall,

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Speaker 1: like something that we are pushing for with Union, the

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Speaker 1: main thing that we were pushing for was better training like,

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Speaker 1: we want Narcan to keep in the stores and we

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Speaker 1: want all the ships to be trained on how to

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Speaker 1: use that, and that doesn't have to be through Starbucks.

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Speaker 1: There are I know of a lot of organizations throughout

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Speaker 1: Pittsburg that would be happy to train our staff on that. UM,

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Speaker 1: we need like better resources. I know at one point

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Speaker 1: we were falsely promised a social worker that would sit

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Speaker 1: in our cafe for at least one day every two weeks.

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Speaker 1: UM never got that. And yeah, I feel like my

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Speaker 1: staff just deserves better, community deserves better, and it shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be Starbucks's job. But until we have something better, I

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Speaker 1: think that we should be a little bit more equipped

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Speaker 1: to handle situations that frankly, we do have to deal

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Speaker 1: with at some point, just by the nature of our

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Speaker 1: work and our location. I also think something really funny

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Speaker 1: to mention here is that we got a new store

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Speaker 1: manager at the UM. I want to say at the

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Speaker 1: beginning or like mid June, we got this new store manager.

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Speaker 1: Her name was Sarah, and she has already transferred to

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Speaker 1: a different store because she felt so unsafe working up

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Speaker 1: Market Square. She got her first Market Square a death

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Speaker 1: threat and was like I'm out, So even the store

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Speaker 1: manager can't deny that our working positions are bad. So

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Speaker 1: the fact that they're still fighting against the union even

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Speaker 1: though management is well aware of how terrible our conditions are.

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Speaker 1: Just like, yeah, okay, I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: take a second and go back to something that you said,

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Speaker 1: which is your first market square death threat? How common

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Speaker 1: is this? Um? I think I received a total of

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Speaker 1: four to five and um. Then I received my very

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Speaker 1: last one the day that my store went on strike,

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Speaker 1: and I was sitting at the picket line and I

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Speaker 1: was like, wow, it's just like the little days before.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, market squares a lotless land. Yeah, And I like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I feel like this is like

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Speaker 1: every time I do this is like a recurring thing.

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Speaker 1: Every time I do a labor story, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a labor story. Was like, no, But it's

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Speaker 1: also the story of a bunch of like a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people whose job this like isn't who just wind

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Speaker 1: up having to deal with all of the ship that

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Speaker 1: the state doesn't want to do, that corporations don't want

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Speaker 1: to do. And it's like the the fact that Starbucks

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Speaker 1: employees have to be the like the Starbucks union has

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Speaker 1: to be the group in like in this place that

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Speaker 1: is trying to get people to get in dark hand

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Speaker 1: training is nuts, like just just like just any like

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Speaker 1: sort of just macro taking a step back level, Like

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Speaker 1: what on earth is going on in the society we

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Speaker 1: could have been thinking a lot about lately. Like I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of journalists and reporters have asked me,

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Speaker 1: like why do you think that the younger generation is

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Speaker 1: the one like leading this? Like why are unions making

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Speaker 1: a come back now? And why is this younger generations

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Speaker 1: like so ready to lead this. I think it's because

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Speaker 1: we've spent our entire lives watching politicians on TV like

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Speaker 1: all these promises and continuing to do absolutely nothing, and

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Speaker 1: we're all sick and tired of it. We are all

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Speaker 1: ready to take it into our own hands and fix

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Speaker 1: it in any way that we see that we can. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. I mean, like I

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Speaker 1: my you know, my my first ball o case, my

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Speaker 1: first political member was the Rock War. But like I

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Speaker 1: was like a little baby child, but like like you know,

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Speaker 1: like I remember, like the thing I grew up on

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Speaker 1: was like yeah I was Obama, it was it was hope,

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Speaker 1: it was changed and then it was like you look

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Speaker 1: at the world now and it's like it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's even bleaker that it was in two eight,

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Speaker 1: which is like, yeah, absolutely crazy. Yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. And I think also just

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Speaker 1: like like the last two years have been so brutal. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I was wondering, Yeah, I wondering, did you can

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Speaker 1: talk about like what affects the UM, what effect the

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Speaker 1: pandemic had on Yellows workers, and what effect that had

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Speaker 1: on union organizing. Yeah, absolutely so. Um. I think that

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Speaker 1: it really pulled the mask off the company, which ironically,

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Speaker 1: well everyone is putting the mask on coming out Starbucks

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Speaker 1: because they always really pretended to be this really awesome

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Speaker 1: progressive company, and it really revealed how performative the company

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Speaker 1: is because they gave us all these COVID benefits for

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Speaker 1: like two three months and then took them right away

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Speaker 1: from us, like before, obviously the pandemic isn't even over now,

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Speaker 1: definitely wasn't over back in I think it was October

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Speaker 1: they took away like ours exactly, and right around that time,

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Speaker 1: we were also watching our CEO are now former CEO

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Speaker 1: Kevin Johnson get like a forty million dollar raised while

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Speaker 1: they had just taken away our hazard pay and there

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Speaker 1: are free food benefits even though we were all still struggling.

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Speaker 1: So then I think that us seeing those benefits being

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Speaker 1: taken away and realizing that the company doesn't care about

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Speaker 1: us in that sense made us start looking harder at everything,

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Speaker 1: Like the company doesn't want to increase our pay, they

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Speaker 1: don't want to give us credit card tipping, they don't

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Speaker 1: want to make our stores safer, um and every other

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Speaker 1: reason that any store could see to unionize. Like it

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Speaker 1: really highlighted all of those reasons and all the ways

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Speaker 1: the company doesn't care about us as much as they should,

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Speaker 1: and how they really do just see us as a number.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's what really really pushed us all

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Speaker 1: towards unionizing. It's like, if the company doesn't care about

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Speaker 1: us and the people in our stores, then we're going

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Speaker 1: to rely on each other to care about us, and

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Speaker 1: UM push reunions so that we can take matters into

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Speaker 1: urrow and hands. Yea and yeah, And I think there's

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of the stuff that you've been talking

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Speaker 1: about that highlights how important that is, which is that

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Speaker 1: like you know, you have this combination of management, either

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Speaker 1: like do the management immediately above you understanding what's happening

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Speaker 1: and being like we'll just throw you guys at it

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Speaker 1: will just literally bail and run away from how bad

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Speaker 1: it is. And then you have the layer management like

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Speaker 1: above you, which is it's a bunch of bureaucrats who

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Speaker 1: like couldn't find their ask if you drew the map

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Speaker 1: and you know, or like oh hey, here here's your

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Speaker 1: d escalation training. It's about person mad about drink and

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Speaker 1: it's like I am getting multiple death threats. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's I don't know. We literally had a like someone

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Speaker 1: from I think you're either regional management or maybe a

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Speaker 1: level higher than that, like area management. Humandour store the

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Speaker 1: other day, like as a customer and there was something

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Speaker 1: going on. I'm not sure if it was like somebody

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Speaker 1: shouting in the cafe or like two customers were fighting,

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Speaker 1: but this like upper level manager who should know about

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Speaker 1: our store said one of my briefs, does um so

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Speaker 1: is this like a high incident store? And we were like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, isn't it your job? Like really like wow, yikes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's something that like you know, it's not like I learned,

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Speaker 1: Like it's something like you learned intellectually and then you

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Speaker 1: just see like and then yeah, so it's only you

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Speaker 1: learned intellectually, and then you just sort of viscerally begin

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Speaker 1: to understand. When you know you're doing work and you're

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Speaker 1: watching what your managers do, it is it's that like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the people who actually knows how the production process

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Speaker 1: works and how the stuff actually goes and what's happening

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Speaker 1: on the shop floor, like are the people are the

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Speaker 1: workers there? And it's like everyone above them is just

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Speaker 1: doing some other ship. They're just making everyone's lives worse,

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Speaker 1: and it's just literally curating. It starts that nobody the

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Speaker 1: reason we need a union. And I tell people this

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Speaker 1: all the time whenever I'm going into new stores, nobody

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Speaker 1: knows your store better than youbody knows, like the inner

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Speaker 1: workings of it, how busy you are with the needs

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Speaker 1: of the store, are better than the people that are

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Speaker 1: there forty hours a week. And so another thing we

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot in like our our citywide meetings

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Speaker 1: is like what do the managers even do on it?

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Speaker 1: Like what is their job? What are they working on?

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Speaker 1: Like what manager do all day in her bushy little

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Speaker 1: corporate off I guess you're just union busting now, even

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Speaker 1: that they're delicating another manager below them, So yeah, apparently. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: did you ever see the fake tweets, the fake Workers

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Speaker 1: United tweets that Starbucks published? No ill to email you

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Speaker 1: a copy of them, but they literally made this hand

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Speaker 1: out with a list of fake tweets from Workers United

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Speaker 1: and like the company's responses to them. But if you

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Speaker 1: look up the company's Twitter account, um, it just doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: And the tweets from Workers United that they printed out

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Speaker 1: all these hand outs also don't exist. And I think

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Speaker 1: maybe three copies of that got handed out to my

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Speaker 1: store where we all made so much fun of my boss,

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Speaker 1: Like so, um, I guess that's my boss's job. I

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Speaker 1: will I can show these towdeos. I keep them on hand.

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Speaker 1: But this is this is like it's the biggest energy

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Speaker 1: of like, oh, I thought of the perfect arguments seven

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Speaker 1: hours later, so they didn't even the argument isn't even real,

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Speaker 1: like they're they're just making up a guy to argue with. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't even try that hard because these were

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Speaker 1: handed to me back in April. It says that these

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Speaker 1: all of these tweets were posted on June one, so

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Speaker 1: the day that they claimed that this was tweeted hadn't

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Speaker 1: even happen. Whenever I received their rand out, I mean, hey,

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Speaker 1: if you if y'all have access to a time machine,

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Speaker 1: I I have some work I need to do. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they say things like, in collective bargaining, you start with

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Speaker 1: everything you have and negotiate for more from there from

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Speaker 1: Starbucks workers united right there, and then the company's responsive

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Speaker 1: I know literally as um and then though we are

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Speaker 1: one Starbucks account said in collective bargaining, everything is up

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Speaker 1: for negotiations if you have more, the same, or less.

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Speaker 1: And once you negotiate a contract, you locked in, which

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Speaker 1: which is also funny because it's like like, okay, you

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Speaker 1: are looking at that like you think that that is

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Speaker 1: actually like a thing that makes you look good and

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Speaker 1: not like a super villain. It's like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: if you try to negotiate with us, we will make

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Speaker 1: everything worse for you. It's like really because it makes

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Speaker 1: it looks good. You know, they try so hard union

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Speaker 1: busts and they just kind of stuck at it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been it's been comical to watch. It's very funny.

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Speaker 1: Which is really funny because like I remember, like I

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Speaker 1: didn't know the super well, but like I remember I

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Speaker 1: knew some people who were doing starbic union organizing like

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Speaker 1: way about like like two thousand, like six or something,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, you know, and it was like

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Speaker 1: they were kind of better at it, like they were

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Speaker 1: willing to just like throw resources at it in a

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Speaker 1: way that like they don't seem to be able to know.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe just because like there there's so many organizations,

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Speaker 1: so many organizing efforts happen happening at once, that it's

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Speaker 1: harder to sort of just like throw all of their

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Speaker 1: stuff at one store. But yeah, it's just it's like

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Speaker 1: incredibly funny watching them just sort of like flail and

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Speaker 1: like you know what I mean. I guess like like

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Speaker 1: all all corporations that you need bust eventually resort to

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Speaker 1: break the law because you know the law, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's designs for rich people. My district manager um came

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Speaker 1: into my store screwdriver in hand to personally make repairs

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Speaker 1: at my store. It would the funniest thing I have

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Speaker 1: ever seen. It's probably my favorite union busting story. But

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Speaker 1: she was like, yeah, I'm here to cover up the

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Speaker 1: electrical outlets in your bathroom and we're like cool, why

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Speaker 1: and she was like, so that the homeless people can't

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Speaker 1: like plug in their electric shavers and shaven there. We

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Speaker 1: were like, wow, we've seen we've seen people do a

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Speaker 1: lot of weird things in the bathroom, and that's like

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Speaker 1: not even one of them. You are so out of touch.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's been hilarious to watch, Like, wow,

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Speaker 1: that was really some efforts, but really, you know, absolutely

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Speaker 1: not immediately now, there's nothing I wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: that Starbucks is you talked a bit about earlier about

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Speaker 1: Starbucks sort of like having this image as like like

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Speaker 1: progressive organization and okay, like one of the things they've

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Speaker 1: been big on sort of recently is like portraying themselves

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Speaker 1: as just like pro l G, B t q I,

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Speaker 1: A plus like thing. And I think, like, okay, so

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Speaker 1: there's something that like traditional media has finally discovered because

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Speaker 1: they haven't covered labor organizing in forty years and they

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Speaker 1: suddenly started doing it again, and they were like, oh

396
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Speaker 1: my god, all of the union organizers are queer. And

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Speaker 1: it was like anyone who's ever organized a union or

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Speaker 1: anyone who knows anyone who's ever been in the Union

399
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Speaker 1: could have told you this like thirty years incredible stuff

400
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Speaker 1: is like, wow, congratulations you've discovered this. But yeah, I

401
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Speaker 1: wanted to ask about of I don't know that this

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Speaker 1: kind of bind that like I feel like we're people

403
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Speaker 1: doing organizing are in right now, which is that Like Okay,

404
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Speaker 1: so on the one hand, you have like in you know,

405
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Speaker 1: in the last sort of year or so, this like

406
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Speaker 1: incredible increase in rampant homophobia, but then simultaneously, like so

407
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Speaker 1: you know, you have to fight that fight, and then

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Speaker 1: simultaneously you have these corporations who are trying to you know,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, they're like nominally on our side, and that

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Speaker 1: they're not well I mean they are, they are, they

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Speaker 1: are funding the rampant homophobus, but like publicly they don't

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Speaker 1: you know publicly their supportive, but also you know that

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Speaker 1: like their supporter because they're trying to sell our identity

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Speaker 1: as a brand. And then you know when queer people

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Speaker 1: are like, hey, can we like have stuff that lets

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Speaker 1: us live there? Like no, And I was wondering how

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Speaker 1: you've been sort of navigating that. Yeah, so that's been

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Speaker 1: really tough because um, a lot of our queer partners

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Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh get get their health insurance through Starbucks, get

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Speaker 1: care through Starbucks. And the biggest union busting tactics is

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Speaker 1: our cuts. And if you cut someone's hours, then they're

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Speaker 1: not eligible for healthcare. So they're really just like dangling

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Speaker 1: the carrot on the stick in front of our faces, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: if you unionize, then we're going to cut your hours

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Speaker 1: and then you can't get your gender affirming health care.

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Speaker 1: So that's like, that's really really sucked. Um. In addition

427
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Speaker 1: to that, UM, there have been now four people about

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Speaker 1: to be five. Um, we think one of one person

429
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Speaker 1: is going to be fired one of these back from vacations.

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Speaker 1: But out of all of us that are fired or

431
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: about to be fired, we are all queer people. So UM,

432
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: I think that really shows how much store books your partners.

433
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: And since I've started organizing, in addition to like homophobia

434
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: and like discrimination against the rare community, I've also heard

435
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: just rampant stories about microaggressions and racism. UM. I've actually

436
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: met a UM a partner that was fired from a

437
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: store in Virginia. I want to say she was I believe,

438
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: for my understanding, she was the only black woman that

439
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: worked at her store and she was fired for aggressive behavior.

440
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: And when I heard that, I was like bidding me.

441
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: So just like and also that support manager that I

442
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: was talking about, I've heard rumors that like she was

443
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: transferred from one store to another because she was like

444
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: caught being racist at the first store. She instead of

445
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: being fired, she was transferred and now she got she

446
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 1: was promoted to store manager. And then she fired a

447
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: trans partner at her store and now she's our support

448
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: manager and fired me. So just like it's homophobia. Yeah, yeah,

449
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's the Catholic church for racist homophobes.

450
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: Well okay, the Catholic Church for racist homophobes, but corporate

451
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: and well okay, I I I am not going to

452
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: make a claim on the air that they're not also

453
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: doing this with sexual assault, because I they had like

454
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: there's no way that they're not. But yeah, that is

455
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: that that that's incredibly bleak. And I would go back

456
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: a second to sort of the gender affirm and care

457
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: stuff because like, yeah, that stuff, it's like, like, Okay,

458
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: the thing that they are doing is just like we

459
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: we are holding the genocide button over you. It's like, yeah,

460
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: if if you if you don't comply with us, and

461
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: you don't like accept the like absolute ship and scraps

462
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: that we give you, we are going to try to

463
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: kill you. And that is just indescribably horrific. Absolutely. Yeah, Um,

464
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: I know it's something that partners up. There's at least

465
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: one partner at my store that's dealing with that right now.

466
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: She's twenty five about and she is trans and I

467
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: know that she's on her parents insurance at the moment,

468
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: but in less than a year she'll have the insurance elsewhere,

469
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: most likely through Starbucks. And it's something that really got

470
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: her into organizing. I know that for sure. Um. Yeah,

471
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: it's it's been a really scary moment for her, Definitely

472
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: something she's worried about. Yeah. Yeah, just the risk of

473
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: being fired, the risk of having your hours cut and

474
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: stop being eligible for benefits. It's awful, and like she

475
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like she can get a job like anywhere

476
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: else just because Starbucks is one of the like Starbucks

477
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 1: offers like decent health insurance. So it's like I'm kind

478
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: of trapped here until I can get out, until I

479
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: can get another job with insurance benefits. Yeah, and you

480
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: know that's incredibly it's incredibly hard, especially right now. I mean, yeah,

481
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's I mean, it's not really surprising

482
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: that they're doing this, but it's yeah, it's it's really

483
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: depressing and it sucks. And the fact that they're you know,

484
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: like sending sending racist to do homophobias like hm, it's yeah,

485
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: it's like dystopian like this happened, and been like is

486
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: this real life? Like this is crazy? And um, they

487
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: just fired another black clear organizer infits were just yesterday

488
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: and trying to make it look like he resigned, um,

489
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: but really they gave him like a couple like options

490
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: like you need to have at least one weekend day available,

491
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: or you need to demote yourself, or you need to

492
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: transfer to a different store. And they were like, I

493
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: can't really do any of those options, like none of

494
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: those work for me. And then the company said like, oh, yeah,

495
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: Jimmy resigned, Like we totally didn't fire them, but they

496
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: just resigned and sorry, you get to peel it because

497
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: you resigned by yeah, it's a real we didn't fire you.

498
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: We simply forced you out by making utterly impossible demands. Yep.

499
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: It's like it really reminds me of like it's the

500
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: kind of stuff a country does when they want to

501
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: go to war, where it's like, yeah, we're gonna we're

502
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: gonna give you a bunch of demands that it is

503
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: literally physically impossible for you to comply with, and that

504
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: because you don't comply with him, we're getting invade. M hmm, yeah, exactly, exactly,

505
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: Like oh um, although I did find out some good

506
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: news today. So there's this one bar where most of

507
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: the union organizers hang out all the time, and they

508
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: message just on Twitter today and they want to throw

509
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: a queer dance party and fundraiser for like our solid

510
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: strike fund. It was like literally the most us thing

511
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: I can mostly think of, like a queer dance party

512
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: fundraiser at our favorite bar. Like the bathroom attendant from

513
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: the bar like showed up to our strike at my

514
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: store and friends of the bartender there. It was like

515
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: the best Twitter DM ever. It was like, that's so funny.

516
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: I'm literally going there with the other person that got

517
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: fired from my store like tonight. So we're very excited

518
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: for that. Yeah, And I guess that means that something

519
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: else I wanted to talk about, which is um, Yeah,

520
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: do you want to talk a little bit about like

521
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: what happened after you got fired and the support you've

522
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: been getting in the like the backing from other unions

523
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: that you've been getting. Totally. Yeah. So my store is

524
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: actually just like a block away from the United steel

525
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: Workers head twitters, which is incredible because anytime we have

526
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: any sort of direct action, we get like forty steel

527
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: workers store. Yeah. The day after I was fired, I

528
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: I have this very funny picture that's on my Twitter

529
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: um of me just standing like with like forty steel

530
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: workers sitting behind me and the found like the two

531
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: biggest dudes like setting on each side of me where

532
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: I started a safer and in the protest. This is

533
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 1: my new favorite picture of myself. So that was day one.

534
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: We had a rally. We had really good turn out

535
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: with all the steel workers and a bunch of other

536
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: community allies are Symphony UM. Symphony musicians have a have

537
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: a labor union to to the library workers UM. They

538
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: all came out for the first day of the rally

539
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: at Market Square and my city wide organizing committee was

540
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: actually able to pull together a total of four strikes.

541
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: What happened within the course of two days. The planning

542
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: happened in like basically under twenty four hours. So yeah,

543
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: I got fired. Wednesday. Thursday was the rally at my

544
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: store with all the steel workers. Friday, the East Carson

545
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: Store in the South Side of Pittsburgh went on strike.

546
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: The East Side store in the Bloomfield store all went

547
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: on strike for the full day. Um. The south Side

548
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: store continued the strike into Saturday, and then um, Sunday,

549
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: my store went on strike finally. So um it was incredible.

550
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: We had We have a labor choir in Pittsburgh which

551
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: is in trouble. It's just like a dude with a guitar.

552
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: He's my favorite person ever. Um. So we had the

553
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: labor choir out at all of our events. And um

554
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: we had, like I said, the library workers, the steel workers,

555
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: the Symphony Union. Um, we have UE. We have d

556
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: s A, which is Democratic Socialists of America. We have

557
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: the part you for Socialism and Liberation or really strong

558
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: allies to us. And we had like a lot of

559
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: the regular my my favorite customers showed up at my

560
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: store of course, which made try. One of my customers,

561
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: one of my favorite customers who comes in multiple times

562
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: a day, said you shouldn't be standing out here on

563
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: the on the sidewalk, you should be back there behind

564
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: the counter making coffee. And I was like, I know,

565
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: thank you. Um. We had a couple of our regulars

566
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: changed their mobile order name to Tori and Kim, so

567
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: that every time he orders a drink to my store,

568
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: they have to call out the name Tory and Kim.

569
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: That's great, And we set up a go fund me

570
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: and we received way more donations than we thought that

571
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: we would get. So um for all the workers at

572
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: my store that went on strike, in addition to the

573
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: seventy pay that we received from the union for the day, UM,

574
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: we were able to pledge twenty dollars to each of

575
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: them to try to make their paychecks pole and cover

576
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: some of their last tips. That was incredible and really

577
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: just a demonstration of how much support we have in

578
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: our area. You know, they say Pittsburgh as a union town. Yeah,

579
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: it really is. It turns out, yeah, and it's really

580
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: cool to see. I don't know, I like one of

581
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: one of the things that I keep seeing is this

582
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: sort of like like one of one of the sort

583
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: of right wing tactics that have been like just inundated

584
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: within the last like a couple of years has been

585
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: like trying to separate out like oh, here are these

586
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: people who are workers, but like, oh, they're not workers

587
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: because they're like oh, they're like doing cultural stuff for

588
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 1: They're like oh, they just like serve drinks and like

589
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, you look at actual labor. It's like that's no,

590
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,239
Speaker 1: like none of this, none of this, none of these

591
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: divisions things are real, like people showing from each other.

592
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: It's always get worried that people will be like judgmental

593
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: about that. Like I'm always kind of like surprised when

594
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: the steel workers show up. I'm like, I know, I'm

595
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: not the steel worker. I don't make steel, I don't

596
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: work at a factory or anything. Just make coffee. But um,

597
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: everyone is so supportive and they are always so willing

598
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: to stand in solidarity, which is really cool. But it's

599
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: something I'm always like worried about, Like I know it

600
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like I'm a real worker, but like union,

601
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in a podcast union, so like talking

602
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: about yeah, I I have I have like arguably like

603
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: if if if if if you're going to use the

604
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: really silly like like I don't know, sort of like

605
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: cultural analysis of what a worker is like a podcast.

606
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: Union is like the silliest union every and it's great. No,

607
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: it rules. It turns out where workers we go fight

608
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: for other people to other people fight for like the

609
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: the when when when we when we were trying to

610
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: get union recognition, like the NFL Players Association was like, hey,

611
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: you guys need to recognize this if we were like yeah, yeah, yeah,

612
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: just um, we've been going to a lot of rallies

613
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: for the Planned Parenthood union and yeah, which I didn't

614
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: I didn't actually know that they existed that Yeah, I actually,

615
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: well it wasn't Pittsburgh, but I I was just talking

616
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: actually probably well I don't know what or these are

617
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: gonna err in, but like yeah that I just talked

618
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: to people from Oh my gosh. Yeah they were cool.

619
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: I got to the labor choir there again. I was Yeah,

620
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: solidarity all around. I love to see it. Oh yeah,

621
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: that's that's really cool. M hmm. Yeah, lots of unions

622
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh A good time. I met a lot of

623
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: really cool people. I feel like all the people I've

624
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: met since I've been involved with union stuff have been

625
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: like really cool. For the first time I talked anywhere,

626
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: it was at the Pennsylvania a f l C i

627
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: OH convention and um whatever. I was told that when

628
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: of our I talk, my speech was supposed to end

629
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: with brothers and sisters, can I count on your support?

630
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: Because they were passing a resolution for us. But one

631
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: of my briefstas told me it would be funnier if

632
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: I said, can I get a hell yeah? So I

633
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: said some very serious words to this room full of

634
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: serious look at people, and then I said, on behalf

635
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: of all of our partners at the Market Square Starbucks,

636
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: can I get a hell yeah? And they all were

637
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: so happy, and I was like, cool, I found my people.

638
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: That was like the first time I talked anywhere. That

639
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: was funny. That's awesome. Yeah, this is and and and

640
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: another reason to unionize. You get to beat a bunch

641
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: of really cool people and then they show up for

642
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: you and it's just incredible experience. Yeah. On my last

643
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: kid vissing trip, we went out in Games of two

644
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: when when when we reconvened at the end of the

645
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: night for dinner and we were like, oh, we should

646
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: stop at our one store that we visited again, like

647
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: all four of us, and I was like, yeah, we

648
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: should like go in and be like, look, guys, I

649
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: joined the union and I made three whole friends. Yeah. Also,

650
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: just talking at the UM, I was on a panel

651
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: at Women's Labor School, which was really awesome. It was

652
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: at Penn State University, and that was a really really

653
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 1: cool experience. I met all the all the female union

654
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: leaders are really great. Then overall, it's really cool people

655
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: involved here. Hell yeah, I love unions, good stuff. Absolutely.

656
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: They got a cool pin that says labor women get

657
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: in good trouble and I was like, yeah, that's what

658
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: I'm doing. Yeah, absolutely, hell yeah. Yeah. So these days

659
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: I'm just working with UM some other stores in the

660
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: Greater Pittsburgh area helping get them filed. I won't be

661
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: too specific about this, but we are going to see

662
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: some stores picking up in DC, which is really really exciting.

663
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: We've been doing some canvassing trips out there well. At

664
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: Starbucks Workers United, we call it a clean play because

665
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: in Starbucks, what a clean play is is that one

666
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: day a week, UM, all the closing crew is scheduled

667
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: for an extra two hours at the end of their

668
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: shift deep clean the store. And they call that a

669
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: clean play. So we like to take Starbucks playing. So

670
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: we feel like our little canvassing blitzes clean plays. So

671
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: for the DC Clean Play, we've been I've been out

672
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: there twice. Um, we visited a ton of stores. Definitely

673
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: some interests there. Seems like the union bust has been

674
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: really tough, but we have we have one store that's

675
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: and you'll see it in the news soon. Hell yeah,

676
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: I'm very proud. It was like one of that was

677
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: one of my DC leads. Um, they've reached out to

678
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: us on our website for an organizing request and um,

679
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: they've just been like super strong leaders and they've been

680
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 1: incredible and union investing really hasn't faced them at all

681
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: and they're going to be there. I'm very proud of them.

682
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 1: A little bit proud of myself, but they they can

683
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: have all the credit for that. They they really like

684
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 1: stay strong for the union busting. Do have good stuff.

685
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: It's scary to be the first store in your area too,

686
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: to actually make moves. Like my friend Jake Welsh, he

687
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: was the first store in Pittsburgh. His store was the

688
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: first in Pittsburgh. And I know that's like really scary,

689
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that it's happening because it feels like

690
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: once the one store goes, then the dominoes starting to fall.

691
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: So once we see that one store in DC file

692
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: for the union election, we're going to see a lot

693
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: more go down there. Um, are you able to talk

694
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: at all about what the search of organizing process has

695
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: been like? And you know, if you can't talk about

696
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: like what it's been like as an organizer, just like

697
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: what it was like at your store and what it's

698
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: been like going to other stores, totally. So at my store,

699
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: we started we had heard a little bit about what

700
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: Buffalo was doing, and we started very casually talking about

701
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 1: it at my store, like, yeah, if any store needs

702
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: the union, it is the store. Like we are an

703
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: absolute shit show here, so we could definitely usunize. That

704
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: would be awesome. UM. Really had no idea how to

705
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: get started though, until a couple of weeks later. I

706
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: get a panicked phone call from one of my baristas

707
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: and she was like, Tori, this weird guy came into

708
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: the store when I was on a register today and

709
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: he started asking me questions about unions, and I know

710
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: he wasn't a barista, and I think he was a

711
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 1: corporate spy. And we were like, oh okay, so we googled,

712
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: the guy started to like like get some information. We

713
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: found like his LinkedIn or his coworkers LinkedIn account, and

714
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: we were like, okay, they seemed trustworthy, We're still not sure,

715
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: so we emailed the guy from a Burner email account

716
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: the fake name. I think the fake name was like

717
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: Darren or something. You know, though, like our names are

718
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: like Tor and Kelly and Kayla. So we emailed them

719
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: from a fake name and a Burner account and eventually

720
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: got in contact with Daisy Pickens, who is now our

721
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: national campaign director, but at the time she was working

722
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: mainly in Pittsburgh and from there she she taught us

723
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: everything we know about organizing. We built an organizing committee

724
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: consisting of me, Kelly, and Kayla because like the three

725
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: of us were pretty good friends, and we got cards signed.

726
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: We were able to get one of people want my

727
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: store to sign a card, and we filed unanimously. Yeah. So, um.

728
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: Something that stores do right before they file is they

729
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: write a dear Howard letter. And you might have seen

730
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: these on Twitter. If you haven't, you didn't find them

731
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: on the Starbucks Workers United like national official Twitter. They

732
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: always post those there. So we wrote our dear Howard

733
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: we turned in our cards to the n l RV office,

734
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: and right after I finished turning in the cards to

735
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: then l RB, I walked right back to my store

736
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: and I had printed out a physical copy of our

737
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: Dear Howard, and I handed it to my store manager, Joe.

738
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: I wanted you to hear it from me, and he

739
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 1: was like okay. UM. From there, the union busting started.

740
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: We had captive audience meetings, which I believe, to my understanding,

741
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: the company has stopped doing because they were kind of

742
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: declared illegal. Or maybe it was just that the information

743
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: they were sharing was so misleading, but it was declared illegal.

744
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: But they handed us like a bunch of really really

745
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: misleading handouts saying things like withdrawn petitions. If Workers United

746
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: thinks that you're going to lose lose your union election,

747
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: they will withdraw your petition and abandon you, which is crazy.

748
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: Another thing was that like if if the union thinks

749
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: that you're going to vote no, they're going to try

750
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: to talk you out of voting. But Starbucks is the

751
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: one that we really cares about your voice, and we

752
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure everyone has a voice. We're like, literally,

753
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: you can look objectively at this, you can see what

754
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: Starbucks has done to try to prevent you from voting,

755
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: like they were pushing for in person stores or in

756
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: person elections in stores where most of the partners don't

757
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: have cars, are um busy with other things, have second jobs,

758
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: and just couldn't feasibly vote in person. UM. They challenge

759
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: ballots left and right, they think. I think they challenged

760
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: a little of nine ballots at my store, including Kelly's ballot,

761
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: even though Kelly was literally like working at the time

762
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: of our ballot count She was literally behind the counter

763
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: and like you can see her like in the zoom

764
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: call when people as she came out to watch the

765
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: ballot counts on her break, they tried to challenge her ballot,

766
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: claiming that she didn't work there. So there's just like

767
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: hard evidence that the company is the one that doesn't

768
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: want people to vote. So we got through the union busting.

769
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: It was it was tough, it was an uphill battle,

770
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: and eventually we won our election eight to one on May.

771
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: So after that, I became an intern with Workers United

772
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: UM for the Summer Solidarity internship program, and that's when

773
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: I started really getting into helping other stores file. So

774
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: there was one out in out in the Pittsburgh suburbs,

775
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: like the Greater Pittsburgh area. Peters Township was the first store,

776
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: like my first really solid lead that I ever took on. UM,

777
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: they filed, I helped them write their Dear Howard letter.

778
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 1: We were interviewed by the Washington Post. Super cool. So

779
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: they have their ballot count on August eighteen. Very excited

780
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: for them. I have my stores in DC that I'm

781
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: working with, and a lot of other stores throughout Pittsburgh

782
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: and UM going on a lot of Queen Play trips,

783
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: whether it's a big one to Washington, d C. Or

784
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: smaller local one. But we'll go out in teams of two,

785
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: visit as many stores as we can possibly get to

786
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: in one day, and we wear our Star Wars Workers

787
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: United shirts, so immediately people know why we're there. Basically,

788
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: just go up as if we're going to order a

789
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: drink and be like, hey, so we heard about what

790
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: we're doing in downtown Pittsburgh. We're like the stores in

791
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 1: Buffalo that unionized you, so like, what do you guys

792
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: think of that? And typically our approach is to find

793
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: the gayest looking person. Yeah, we gotta trying to find

794
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: like the young like maybe like twentysomething person with like

795
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: dyet hair and a septom piercing. It's always the septom piercings.

796
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: Let me tell you. They're always the leader, the ring

797
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: leaders at their store. I don't know why, but it's

798
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: been funny. So yeah, try to find the gayest person

799
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, so what do you think about unions?

800
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: And that's how we brought a new store. Yeah, and

801
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: we've been pretty successful with it. A lot of people

802
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: either don't know what a union is or they really

803
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: like their boss, and that seems to be the company's

804
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: best union tactic union busting tactic because by having good bosses,

805
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: because we always say that sometimes the best organizer is

806
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: the boss. So sometimes the stores where they're like, we

807
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 1: love our boss, our boss takes such a good care

808
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: of us, I'm like, darn it. Um, Like good for

809
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: you guys, but you should unize anyway. Yeah. I would

810
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: also yeah, like like I would say, it's like I

811
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: really liked my boss and I am also still on

812
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: the union because yeah, trying to explain to them too.

813
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: Sometimes those stores where they say that they're hard to

814
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: talk into it, but I always tell them what happened

815
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: at my store, and what happens that we had the

816
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: same store manager for I believe like five years. He

817
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: was great, We loved him, he was cool, and when

818
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: we unionized, it wasn't about him. It was about the

819
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: working conditions at our store and that upper management had

820
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: been giving us false promises, and the things that needed

821
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:33,959
Speaker 1: to be changed at our store were kind of out

822
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: of my store manager's hands, like that was like above

823
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: his vagode, so he couldn't do much about it. And

824
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: we made it clear, like Joe, it's not about you.

825
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: You're great, we love you. Um gotta do it, do

826
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: you though, Sorry, buddy. Um. Then we got even though

827
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: we loved Joe, we got a new store manager in

828
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 1: mid June, and she was a little bit less awesome.

829
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: And you know, you never know when things that your

830
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: store can change. And even if you love the store

831
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: manager you have now, they could They could leave tomorrow.

832
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: So you gotta like, the only thing that's guaranteed, your

833
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: store manager isn't guaranteed to be at your store forever.

834
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: What is guaranteed is a contract, and that's something that's

835
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: really important. Sometimes it's hard to get people to see

836
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: the long term of it though, UM, otherwise we're normally

837
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: pretty successful. UM. We uh typically try to get phone

838
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: numbers at every store, reach out to them within the

839
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: next two days, and then we'll hold like an intake meeting.

840
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: So whenever we have an intake meeting, we tell them

841
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: make a spreadsheet of every partner at your store, what

842
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: shift they work, what their job is like if they're

843
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: strip supervisor or barista, and assign one person on your

844
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: organizing committee to talk to that person. So every person

845
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: at your store should have an organizing committee member assigned

846
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: to them. From there, once they have a plan for

847
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: who's going to talk to who, we get cards to

848
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: them and they can be either physical cards like my

849
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 1: store did or digital cards, and then they start getting signatures,

850
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: having little conversations like hey, here's what do you mean

851
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 1: is here's why we're doing this. If you agree, sign

852
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: this card. Once they have sent cards signed, then we

853
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: take it to the on l RV and say hello,

854
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: we would like to do a union please, and then

855
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: hopefully they get a ballot count date. And the company

856
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: always pushes for in personal elections. We always push back.

857
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: We pretty much always win, and um we always want

858
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: mail in ballots because we do, like, really genuinely want

859
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: everybody to be able to vote. Whenever I was organizing

860
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: at my store, I told everyone my best possible outcome,

861
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: best case scenario is that every single person here votes

862
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: and votes. Yes. My second best possible outcome is that

863
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: everyone here votes and some of you vote. Now, like

864
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: I I want everyone to vote. I want every single

865
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: person here to vote. I don't want to be like,

866
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: there is one store in my district that did end

867
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: up winning their union election, but out of there I

868
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: think fifty to sixty partners, only twelve people voted, and

869
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: although they won, like, that is not the way we

870
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: wanted to get you want everyone to have a day, yeah,

871
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: which I think is interesting on sort of two levels. One,

872
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: it's like you can see the exact moment at which

873
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: corporations start carrying about prince are pretending to care about democracy,

874
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 1: which is like, oh wait, hold on, our workers are

875
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,959
Speaker 1: doing stuff. Oh no, we have to care about Yeah.

876
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,479
Speaker 1: Suddenly we're like this incredible pro democratic force. We don't

877
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: want everyone to have to say. It's like, okay, it's funny.

878
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: They actually just came out with This happened after I

879
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: got fired. This happened the past two weeks, but they

880
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: came out with I believe it's an app where partners

881
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: can share their feedback and share their experiences. Um. So

882
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: they are trying to be so democratic, like look at

883
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: them just really listening to us. Um. Yeah. They also

884
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: did this really fun thing where even though hours are

885
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: being cut across the company, people are having their hours

886
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: drastically cut because this poor little billion dollar corporation can't

887
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: afford to schedule us any more hours or properly staff

888
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: their stores. We were all scheduled an extra hour for

889
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: one of our shifts during the week so that we

890
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: could sit down and watch an hour long speech by

891
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: Howard Shoulder and do a survey about how much we

892
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: like our job, which was funny. That Wow, that was

893
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: like a kind of a new load for Starbucks. Like, wow,

894
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: there's two people working on the floor right now, one

895
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: person like making drinks and one person on register and

896
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,439
Speaker 1: they're getting slammed out there. It's so glad you guys

897
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: had the had the labor hours to be able to

898
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: schedule me to sit here and watch this Howard speech. Great. Thanks,

899
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: And like I think, like just the scheduling stuff, like

900
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: everyone being consistently understaffed. It's like this is something I

901
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: was talking to the plant Parenthood people about two, which

902
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: is like like there too. It's like you get you

903
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: get these managers who are like, wow, okay, we need

904
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,439
Speaker 1: to cost cutting we're doing, and you know the price

905
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: of cost cutting is we're going to just make all

906
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: of our people work can possibly hard because we refused

907
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: to put enough people in the store. And then you know,

908
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: we're we're not gonna let you work long enough, like

909
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: we're not gonna let you work long enough to actually

910
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: get benefits. And then yeah, it's like the worst combination. Yeah,

911
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: but but it's like you know, okay, know like like

912
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 1: they have the buddy, they can't schedule you. It's like, yeah,

913
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: what I mean like like you know, I think like

914
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: it ideally, in a society that wasn't just like like

915
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: not even not even like a perfect society, in a

916
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: society that was not like entirely based on cruelty and violence,

917
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: it wouldn't even be able to do this at all.

918
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: Everyone would just have a fixed schedule. Yeah, just like exactly,

919
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 1: because it's so it sucks so much because it's like

920
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: I barely get to go to work even though I

921
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: asked for a full time I'm scheduled seventeen hours a week,

922
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 1: but I am there. I'm like so freaking stressed because

923
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: there's just not enough people to make the number of

924
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: drinks that need made and all the customers are super

925
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: piste off because they've been waiting ten minutes for their drink,

926
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: and like corporate is just watching this happen. I'm sure

927
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: that they have to be getting bad reviews. Like there's

928
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 1: no way people aren't calling corporate to complain about the

929
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: weight times because there's only two of us working on

930
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: a Sunday morning, and like they're really just shooting themselves

931
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: in the foot, just all around, all around, shooting themselves

932
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: on the foot. Yeah, but I think also like there's

933
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: a part of this which is just like like they

934
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: are insulated from this, like you know, I don't know,

935
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: it's like the managers don't have to deal with this ship.

936
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, they're gonna they're just gonna throw

937
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 1: all of the angry customers, Like people who are angry

938
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: because of decisions of management do they throwte you? And

939
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,959
Speaker 1: it's like this is this is fucking bullshit, Like yeah,

940
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: it's like here's a cupe on for a free drink.

941
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: Go Bull, the brist does again. Yeah. Yeah, it's like Michelle,

942
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: my district manager doesn't have to come in and deal

943
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: with like forty angry customers staring at her while she

944
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: tries to frantically make drinks. Like yeah, it's like, I

945
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: don't know, Like there is definitely a part of me

946
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: that is, like, I mean, okay, like I know, on

947
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: the one hand, this isn't true because there have been

948
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: a lot of terrible corporate people. There's been a lot

949
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: of like I don't know, like terrible world leaders who

950
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: actually had to work real jobs. But like, okay, a like,

951
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: like some part of my soul still holds onto the

952
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: belief that if like these people actually had to work

953
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: in these conditions like consistently, that it wouldn't be like

954
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: this because they wouldn't be completely insulated from just the

955
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: absolute horror they're inflicting an iPhone And it's yeah, you

956
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: can see whenever my store manager is scheduled to be

957
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: on the floor, like scheduled for a coverage shift, which

958
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:24,959
Speaker 1: means that they're required to be out on the floor

959
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: making drinks and doing register, they were always very fully staffed.

960
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: Whenever whenever the scheduled for coverage, there's always at least

961
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: five other people on the floor. But whenever it's like

962
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: me on a Sunday morning opening the store and there's

963
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: like a Steelers game and a convention in town and everyone,

964
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: like the city is packed and all the hotels around

965
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: around my store are packed. Everyone's gonna want coffee. There's

966
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: like three of us, which is just like it's really

967
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: frustrating to sort of like on a political level, it's

968
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: like every job that I've ever worked, It's like if

969
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: it was literally just us running this and there was

970
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: no manage, everything would work on hunter Ties better. Yeah,

971
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: And it's like yeah, yeah, it's like okay, Like at

972
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: a certain point you have to just be like get

973
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: rid of these people, like why why why are we

974
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: doing this? Our new new store manager since our recent

975
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: new one quit because working visions are so bad. Our

976
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: new new one is an outside hire who doesn't know

977
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: how to ring in drinks, don't know how to make drinks,

978
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: doesn't know anything, and they just put him in my

979
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: store as a store manager. And my roommate is also

980
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: a barista, and she's been like having to coach him

981
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: every day, which is a really awkward situation because she's

982
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: not even a supervisor. She's like a barista, and she

983
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 1: has to be like, hey, there's a difference between Nitro

984
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: coold Brew and regular coold Brew, Like keep putting the

985
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: wrong button. Very frustrating when they sent this guy into

986
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: run my store. Meanwhile, like he probably knows less than

987
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: everybody else that works there. Yeah, definitely knows us. And

988
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: you do like, yeah, definitely knows less than me. It's

989
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: so funny. Since I've been fired, I still like every

990
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: time there's an emergency at my store, my barristas called me.

991
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: It's wild. Like I got a call at five in

992
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 1: the morning the other day from one of my favorite

993
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 1: barristas and he was like, hey, Tori, I know you

994
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: don't work here anymore, but sal was supposed to open

995
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: and he's not here yet and I'm locked out of

996
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: the store. What do I do? Or Like another barrista

997
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: called me when I was in d C and he

998
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: was like, Tori, I just shrote up for work and

999
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: the store is closed. What do I do? And I

1000
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know that. I was like, I

1001
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: can do my best to help you, but I there's

1002
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: not much I can physically do. I don't have keys anymore. Sorry, Yeah.

1003
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: And it's it's really like, you know, one of one

1004
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: of the things that I mean, I guess you get

1005
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: this in both sort of like like when I want

1006
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: to like so I went to the verse of Chicago,

1007
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like, okay, so these are the

1008
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: people who infamously produced all of the terrible economics that

1009
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 1: make the world suck, right, and it's like okay, well

1010
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: you take econ classes there and it's like everything is

1011
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: about sort of like I like, you're doing all of

1012
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 1: this because I like, okay, so like the you're you're

1013
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: doing all of this under the assumption that if you

1014
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: let corporations run into free market, they will do everything optimally,

1015
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: and they will produce the lowest prices, and they will

1016
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: produce everything as efficiently as possible. It's funny because like

1017
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: you see this in like Marxist theory too. And then

1018
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 1: it's like you look at like any store place and

1019
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 1: it's like no, no, no, they're firing their most competent

1020
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: workers and hiring people who are incompetent because like because

1021
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: the thing that they actually like care them most about

1022
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: even more than efficiency, even more than like making more

1023
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:35,879
Speaker 1: money is maintaining their power, and it's like it's something

1024
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: that like is really obvious when you're working, but somehow,

1025
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: like the people who write about this stuff has like

1026
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: deluded themselves into not being able to understand. Yeah, that's

1027
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: no idea. It's like it feels like they almost don't

1028
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: want the experienced workers to say I've seen, like so

1029
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: part of my internship project is keeping a database of

1030
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: the fire and partners in the anti union firings, which

1031
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,959
Speaker 1: is d of ironic because I was like, well, gotta

1032
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: add myself to this spreadheet now, But I've seen I

1033
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,760
Speaker 1: seen people must freadheet who worked the company for five years.

1034
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 1: There's one person on there who worked for the company

1035
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: for seventeen years. But we don't get raises or anything

1036
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: for a seniority or anything like that. There's actually a

1037
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 1: cap on how much you can make in each state

1038
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: from Starbucks because they don't they don't want you to

1039
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: work there forever because then the frustrations start to come through,

1040
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: and then new the new unionized, and it feels like

1041
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: they the high turnover feels really intentional. Sometimes I think

1042
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: it is like I think that that's that's like a

1043
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: pretty common, like Amazon Justice too, where it's like their

1044
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: whole their their whole business strategies is intentionally on working

1045
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: every one so hard as they quit so I can

1046
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: get a new group of people, and so people don't

1047
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: organize and it's yeah, yeah, it's really brutal and horrific

1048
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: and I hate these people. Yeah same, It's like if

1049
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: I see this person here for ten years and make

1050
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: this look like it's a sustainable career, then then we

1051
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: have to make it a sustainable career. And I don't

1052
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: want to do that. So bourse people out after like

1053
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: two or three so very frustrating, which I think I

1054
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: guess also helps them with the sort of like like

1055
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: the way that people look at like I mean minium

1056
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: wage workers and also just service workers in general, where

1057
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, well, yeah, you know, we don't need

1058
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: to raise minium wages a bunch of teenagers, Like these

1059
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: people don't need like good wages because this is like,

1060
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, you're not actually supposed to be doing this,

1061
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: This is like a transition thing. It's like that's not

1062
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 1: how any of this works, Like it's just not that's

1063
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: just you're you're you're making excuses for corporations doing exploitation. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Yeah.

1064
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: And it also seems like another thing they're doing is

1065
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: that we've seen a lot of really high manager turnover too,

1066
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 1: And I think that also is really intentional because they

1067
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,280
Speaker 1: had to even though the storm manager that ultimately fired

1068
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: me was new, like she couldn't she didn't even have

1069
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 1: the heart to do that. She had to bring in.

1070
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: They had to bring in a support manager to like

1071
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: actually of the words like you're fired, here's a termination notice.

1072
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,240
Speaker 1: And it feels like the reason they're making the manager's

1073
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 1: anniverse so high is so that the managers don't like

1074
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: form those relationships with the staff of the store because

1075
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel as bad to fire them. Like I

1076
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 1: don't think this ever would have happened to me if

1077
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: my original store manager, who had been there for five

1078
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: years and like knew me personally, was still at my store,

1079
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't think this would have happened. And I think

1080
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: that's why they're doing this big manager shuffle right now,

1081
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: at least, I mean, I'm sure it's happening in other places.

1082
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: It's definitely happening a lot in Pittsburgh. I think there

1083
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: are very few stores in my district that had the

1084
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: same manager that they had three months ago. It feels

1085
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: like they're intentionally shuffling them around so they don't form

1086
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: like personal relationships or any sort of emotional tie to

1087
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: the partners at their store, and they don't feel guilty

1088
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: firing them. Yeah, it's like it's community is really dangerous

1089
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 1: to them. M absolutely, Like I think I talked about

1090
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: this like some number of episodes ago, but like yeah,

1091
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: like this is this is the thing that's really common

1092
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 1: with Like I'm just I'm just gonna straight up called

1093
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: Starbucks dicatorial organization because it is like it is just

1094
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: a dictatorship. It's like the tatorships do this a lot

1095
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 1: where like yeah, like communities are really dangerous to them.

1096
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: Communities with any kind of strong bonds with each other

1097
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: really dangerous because people will fight for each other, and

1098
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: you know, you can't for example, like I don't know,

1099
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: it's it's really really hard to support someone who has

1100
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: a strong community around them that will fight back. But

1101
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: if you can isolate those people, if you can like

1102
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: like physically isolate them, if you can like socially isolate them,

1103
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: if you can make sure that they don't have these

1104
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: support networks, then you can then you can you know,

1105
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: do whatever you want to them. And that seems yeah,

1106
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: it seems like it's it's a very deliberate like and

1107
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: didn't even think it was, like you know this also

1108
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: like this just makes everyone's life worse, right, Like, did

1109
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: you see what happened in Seattle with the new Starbucks

1110
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: Heritage District. I think I've vaguely heard about it, but yeah,

1111
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:00,439
Speaker 1: so in Seattle, the three like origin I leave, it's

1112
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: the three original Starbucks stores, like first ever Starbucks stores

1113
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: to open, the three in Seattle. Um, they've made it

1114
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: so that you don't the partners there don't have a

1115
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: specific store that they're assigned to. They're assigned into the

1116
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: district and can be scheduled at any store at any time.

1117
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: So you're not working with the same people all the

1118
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: time and you're not forming those relationships. And if you

1119
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: were to somehow forming of relationships to start organizing, UM,

1120
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to vote as a store. You

1121
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: have to vote as a district, which is just a

1122
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: lot more logistically difficult, And there was a lot of

1123
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: pushback that happened, but unfortunately those stores hadn't file up

1124
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: for an election yet. And um weren't really able to

1125
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: do much about it, but we're definitely scared of that

1126
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: happening like in Pittsburg and like at other Starbucks stores

1127
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: around the country, that they're going to make it so

1128
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: that you work for the district on the specific store

1129
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: and that's kind of terrifying. So yeah, I mean, and

1130
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: I think that that's not everything where it's like okay

1131
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: that they have to have to weigh efficiency versus like

1132
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: they're power and they're going to choose their own power

1133
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: every time. Like there's just like an aspect of that too,

1134
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: where it's like they're just incredible dehumanization of it. Yeah,

1135
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: it's just totally it's like really careless, like you don't

1136
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: know what someone's transportation situation looks like. Um, you don't know,

1137
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: like if they feel comfortable working with like different groups

1138
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: of people, Like I don't know, I know that like

1139
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people at UM. So this is just

1140
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: reminding me of something that happened at the store in

1141
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: my area. So at Penn Center East, the Penn Center

1142
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: East Starbucks, they are Union store. They decided they were

1143
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: closing Penn Center East for like a for an entire

1144
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: week and gave them the option to work at three

1145
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: stores that were like an hour away from them, and

1146
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: of course, like they were only giving the option to

1147
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: work at other stores that were unionized, they weren't going

1148
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: to send the union people into the non unionized store

1149
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: potentially influenced them. So one of the partners, the one

1150
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: that was actually fired yesterday, it was like, I do

1151
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: not feel comfortable working at this store because I worked

1152
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: at this or one time and I faced a lot

1153
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: of discrimination from the from the manager there, from the

1154
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: partners there, and I don't want to be put in

1155
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: that situation again. There's like a customer at this other

1156
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: store that said or that called me a racial slur,

1157
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:15,959
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be in this area. I don't.

1158
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to go out to these stores. And

1159
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: it just like exposes partners to like a lot more

1160
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: like situations that they're potentially not comfortable with there, with

1161
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: new managers that they don't have like a good rapport

1162
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: with yet, and it makes everything just a lot more difficult.

1163
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: Like just let everyone work at their own store, Like

1164
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: we all have friends. All the partners that like my

1165
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: store at least were very very close. I know a

1166
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: lot of the stores are the same way. It just

1167
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: makes work worse to not be working with your friends.

1168
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone would work in market Square if

1169
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: we weren't all really close with each other. Um overall

1170
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: just work situation. Yeah, And I don't know, hope, hope,

1171
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: hopefully they're not able to do that on a large scale,

1172
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: because yeah, that would be It's feels like a disaster,

1173
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: especially since I mean there's a lot of Starbucks stores

1174
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: like concentrated in cities, but I know, like the Penn's

1175
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: Center East Starbucks was kind of out there in the suburbs.

1176
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: And another big issue that they faced was that, like,

1177
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: we don't have some of us don't have cars, and

1178
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: we just can't get to like the city Starbucks stores

1179
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,959
Speaker 1: because our parents drive us to work, to our parents

1180
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 1: drive us to work every day because we're in high

1181
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: school and we just don't have like a means of transportation.

1182
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: There's nowhere to park there, and it just puts them,

1183
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: It just makes them face a lot of issues that

1184
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 1: they weren't really planned on dealing with, planning on dealing with,

1185
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: and aren't really prepared to. And they probably chose the

1186
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: store that they currently work at because, like they didn't

1187
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: just pick it at random. They picked becuse it was

1188
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 1: community to get to. They like vibes there and it

1189
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: was like a good fit for them, and forcing them

1190
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: to work at other other stores where there are a

1191
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: lot less comfortable. Not a good decision. Just feels shady,

1192
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: very dehumanizing for sure. Yeah, and so I guess I do.

1193
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: I do have phone lessing to ask, which is if

1194
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: people want to support you and if people want to

1195
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,919
Speaker 1: find you in places, where can they do that? Oh? Yeah,

1196
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: so my Twitter is Tory Underscore Timbolini and that's my

1197
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: personal Twitter. We also have a Pittsburgh Starbucks Workers United

1198
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: Twitter account. Um, if you want to support me and

1199
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: Kim specifically, there is a link to our go funds

1200
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: me there. There's a link in my bio and somewhere

1201
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: in the Pittsburgh account as well. We also just released

1202
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 1: a National Solidarity fund um through a coworker, but I'm

1203
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: actually not quite clear on how people can donate to

1204
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: that yet. I can. It's very new, So I can

1205
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,919
Speaker 1: send you an email with a link to that. Yeah cool. Yeah,

1206
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: well we'll put all the links in the show notes. Awesome,

1207
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Yeah, thank you, thank you so much.

1208
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: For joining us is Yeah, it was really good. Yeah,

1209
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing my story. I I

1210
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of fired partners fired partners

1211
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: across the country and like we all kind of need

1212
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: to stand together there. And I like people hear my

1213
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: story and hear about how like the union has supported

1214
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: us and there's been a lot of community support. And

1215
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, as soon as I was fired, I was

1216
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: immediately hired by Workers United. You know, they're really willing

1217
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: to take care of us. And if I had like

1218
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: anything to kind of like like any advice to give

1219
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: the partners who are trying to organize, like the union

1220
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 1: has your back, don't worry too much about losing your job.

1221
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: Probably won't happen. If it does, the union has your back,

1222
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: and all the other fire partners have your back as well. Thanks.

1223
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: Hell yeah. Yeah. And on that note, yeah, fight your

1224
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: bosses together. You can beat them. Uh yeah. Go out

1225
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: into the world and make havoc for people who do

1226
01:03:42,000 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: bad stuff, cause problems on purpose. Welcome to it could

1227
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 1: happen here a podcast that I've could and yeah, well welcome.

1228
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 1: We'll welcome to the inaugural podcast where it's just Christopher

1229
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: and Andrew. I'm your house, Christopher Wong, and I got

1230
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: I got Andrew with with me today to cast the pod. Okay, yes,

1231
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: I have Tony age from Thank you for that. UM.

1232
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: I had to sacrifice you for that one, because I

1233
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: was not gonna gonna do it myself. UM. Welcome to

1234
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: the first in a two part exploration of the New

1235
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: African revolutionary known as Kasi Balacoon. He's one of the

1236
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: most recognizable black and archaic radicals of the whole black

1237
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: and radical tradition. UM. Recognized for his constant struggle, UM,

1238
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 1: for his political journey, and for his insights in the

1239
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: cause of you know, black freedom in the US. And

1240
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: so I think it's his very layered journey is one

1241
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:10,479
Speaker 1: I believe that more people should explore, and I hope

1242
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 1: that more people would come away with this episode and

1243
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: the following episode, the second part, with a recognition of

1244
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: what an inspiring person is and what we can can

1245
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: learn from his life. Hell yeah, I'm excited. He's super cool.

1246
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, for many reasons. As I think we will

1247
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 1: start at the very beginning, as most humans do. I

1248
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: don't think we know of anybody who just kind of

1249
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: plopped onto the youth fully formed. His quasi bo lagoon

1250
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: was not his original name, was his chosen name. He

1251
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 1: was born Donald Wims in the major majority black community

1252
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: of Leland in Prince George's County, Maryland and December twenty second,

1253
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 1: n six, So I'm sure he got like his Christmas

1254
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:10,439
Speaker 1: presents and his birthday presents like combined. That was a laugh.

1255
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 1: It's thinking my one of my oh I think it's

1256
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: my my uncle or something has his birthday is, yeah, December, Yeah,

1257
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: one of my uncle's bothday is I think, and my

1258
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: girlfriend's birthday is the twenty. Yeah. That's that's some That

1259
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: is some rip stuff there. Yeah. I mean I try

1260
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: not to like add to that, so I try and

1261
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: get two separate gifts, but um, you know, it's a

1262
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: it's a challenge. And then talk of that like you

1263
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: can't really do much for your birthday because everybody has

1264
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: always been like last minute stuff. Yep, yep. Thankfully I

1265
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 1: was born in the best month. So anyway, the experiences

1266
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: prepared young Donald Williams to become an activist who would

1267
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: militantly resist white supremacy and unjust authority. He was particularly

1268
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: inspired by his own parents struggle um during the Cambridge

1269
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 1: Protest of is he his dad had worked in the

1270
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 1: US Printed Office, and his mom had worked at Fort

1271
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: Meade in Maryland, and so they, he and his sister

1272
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: were very much cared for. He and his two sisters

1273
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: rather very much cared for. He think he was the

1274
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: youngest of the family and loved and they really showed

1275
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 1: um that sort of drive to provide and care for

1276
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: for for their children. Um in those work environments they

1277
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 1: would have seen, he observed, and he watched it. He

1278
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: observe of his parents, observing the effort that they put in,

1279
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:09,919
Speaker 1: and the fact that they surpassed the skill and experience

1280
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 1: of a lot of the white folks who came into

1281
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: their type of work. But then those said white folks

1282
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: who just go on ahead and climb the ladder and

1283
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, get these promotions and get these raiss while

1284
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 1: they themselves had to like slowly and painfully drag themselves

1285
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 1: forward and fight to get ahead. Also that their children

1286
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 1: could have their food and clothes and everything that they needed.

1287
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: So the Cambridge Right the ninety three were led by

1288
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 1: a young one by the name of Gloria Richardson, who

1289
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 1: was a key figure in the civil rights Movement UM.

1290
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 1: Their struggle had he moved as part of the Civil

1291
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: Rights Movement UM and the local chapter of the Student

1292
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: Tern VIOLENTCE Coordinating Committee. There was fighting against segregation in

1293
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: the area, organizing sit ins and so on and so forward.

1294
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 1: But after they had organized against a movie theater that

1295
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: was expanding its discriminatory practices, UM the movement started to

1296
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: push back and they marched, and the demands were unmet,

1297
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: and the police were called and Richardson and others were

1298
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: arrested for disorderly conduct, and there was a whole pattern

1299
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 1: of protests and arrests and boycotts and harassed when they

1300
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: just went on and on and on. After some youths

1301
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:34,560
Speaker 1: both a few years old were charged with disorderly conduct

1302
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: for being arrested and were arrested for pretting peacefully outside

1303
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 1: of a segregated facility. Even more marchers were organized, and

1304
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: eventually the protests escalated and some white owned businesses we

1305
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 1: set on fire. Then gunfire was being exchanged between whites

1306
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:01,959
Speaker 1: and African Americans, and of course martial law was declared

1307
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: and National Guard was deployed, and eventually a treaty had

1308
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: to be negotiated between UM Glory Richardson and the white

1309
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: power structure. The Gambridge movement is recognized by the Nation

1310
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 1: of Islam as one of the marcom x as one

1311
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 1: of the examples of a developing black revolution, and so

1312
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: that militancy in that movement is well inspired and impressed

1313
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: the young Donald Williams would later become quest. Probably another

1314
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 1: formative point in his in his life was when he

1315
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: had joined the U. S Army after graduate in high

1316
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,480
Speaker 1: school and were stationed in Germany after receiving some basic trina.

1317
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: Of course, like most black people in the military, he

1318
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 1: experienced a lot of racism and physical attacks from white officers,

1319
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: and eventually he and others formed the association known as

1320
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: the Legist Leaders, basically based on like messing up racists

1321
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: and making sure that they couldn't like interfare with them

1322
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: any longer. Yeah, he prided himself in his ability to

1323
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 1: exact revenge on racist war suits while in Europe. He

1324
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 1: was in London at one point and he connected with

1325
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 1: Africans and African descendants, and he saw his experience and

1326
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: learn that it's basically like a natural tonic like it's

1327
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: something that clicked in his head and he realized the

1328
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: interconnections between African descendants across the globe. Um as he

1329
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:44,680
Speaker 1: grounded himself more in in black consciousness and culture, he

1330
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,839
Speaker 1: stopped processing his hair while it is natural hair style

1331
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: and became basically more committed to black liberation than he

1332
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 1: had been before. After being honorably honorably discharged the ninety seven,

1333
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: after three years of servant primarily in Germany, he returned

1334
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: home to Lakeland, UM and then he moved to New

1335
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: York City, where his sister Diane had lived. And in

1336
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 1: New York he got involved in wrench strikes and became

1337
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: parts of a tenant organizing movement for the Community Council

1338
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: of Housing. One of the principal leaders of this of

1339
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: this movement was a hulum rend strike organized so called

1340
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 1: Jesse Green, and he used the rhetoric of like militant

1341
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:32,799
Speaker 1: Black nationalism to recruit lieutenants for his activist campaigns. His

1342
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: his militancy when you know, pull it back, and he

1343
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: connected with the militantcy that Donald was already feeling drawn

1344
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: to is what it really pushed him to get into

1345
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:48,639
Speaker 1: that cause. And so I think it makes me think

1346
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: as I'm you know, going through his journey about like

1347
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: I mean, his commitment to the struggle began from very

1348
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 1: early on, from seeing his parents and the things they

1349
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: had to do with from seeing the Cambridge riots, from

1350
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 1: seeing his experience in the army, from connecting with UM,

1351
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: with black folks in London, with UM his tenant organizing.

1352
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: And it makes me think of the political journeys of

1353
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 1: people today and how all these little points and larger

1354
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: points in a Pererson's life kind of combined to create

1355
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 1: the sort of tapestry of a person that they are

1356
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: and a tapestry of political beliefs that they wuld. I

1357
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: think a lot more people have been drawn to like

1358
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: militant radical politics, left rack of politics than we give

1359
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: them credit for. The more people have that basis than

1360
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 1: we necessarily um want to accept. I think the issues

1361
01:13:55,720 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 1: we just don't have the outreach and please do you know,

1362
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:06,680
Speaker 1: help them get across the finish line and get to

1363
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:13,320
Speaker 1: a place where the actively you know, working for these courses. Yeah,

1364
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: it seems like there's a lot of I mean, partially

1365
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: burned out and partially just sort of I don't know.

1366
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: You you get these you get periods where sort of

1367
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 1: just like specific movements ends and a bunch of people

1368
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: just kind of fall out, and it's like, it's not

1369
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: that they haven't done this stuff, it's that they just

1370
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 1: sort of, I don't know, the movement to the thing

1371
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 1: they were in is over and now they're sort of

1372
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 1: just off doing something else. And yeah, and that reminds

1373
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 1: me of um well, rhymes of a script that I

1374
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 1: was working on the other day about demands. And one

1375
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 1: of the arguments people have made against making demands, you know,

1376
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 1: as a movement is that once demands are met, it's

1377
01:14:52,479 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 1: sort of what concessions even made. It's SAPs the momentum

1378
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: out of a movement and SAPs its potential because if you,

1379
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, accept concessions, if you accept that, you know,

1380
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 1: when whatever you receive and you know, you go back

1381
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 1: in your loyalty, you don't reach the climax of what

1382
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,800
Speaker 1: you could have achieved as a movement compared to if

1383
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 1: you've just kept going. Of course, I have critiques of

1384
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: the anti demand position, but it's something that they frequently

1385
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: consider when I look at a lot of these social

1386
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 1: movements that have based on specific projects, based on specific focuses,

1387
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: and what happens when these movements get you know, coopted,

1388
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 1: When these movements get compromised, and the way that the

1389
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: potential and the share manpower of some of these movements

1390
01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 1: compared to like what they've actually achieved is a massive discrepancy.

1391
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, and this I was thinking about. Um

1392
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 1: it was something in The Bastard's episode a long time

1393
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 1: ago about um. The the name of the treaty was Ampo,

1394
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 1: wh just like there was this huge mobilization in Japan

1395
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 1: in the sixties to stop this treaty with the US.

1396
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 1: Was a military treaty they're doing there, and they hit

1397
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff in it. Like I think

1398
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,799
Speaker 1: there was a closet let the US like invade Japan

1399
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 1: if there was like a civil disturbance or something stuff

1400
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 1: like that, and they, you know, they had this huge

1401
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: movement like people people stormed the parliament like multiple times,

1402
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: like you know, I think, I think. I think afterwards

1403
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: the historians determined that like a third of the total

1404
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: population of Japan had been involved in this movement. And

1405
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: then they lost because the whole movement had been about

1406
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: stopping this treaty and the treaty gets signed that they

1407
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 1: can't do anything about it, and then it just sort

1408
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: of like fizzles and it kind of becomes the Japanese

1409
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 1: New Left. But like you know, you have this like

1410
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: incredible high water mark of like like you you have

1411
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:09,879
Speaker 1: you have so many from the then even the Japanese

1412
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 1: you left like dissipeate. Yeah, yeah, and they they it implodes,

1413
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 1: like yeah, you go from like like Nixon, like was

1414
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 1: it Nixon you tried to visit And I think that

1415
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:21,560
Speaker 1: there's been a couple of US presidents you tried to

1416
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: You tried to visit Japan and couldn't leave the airport

1417
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:25,640
Speaker 1: because the bob was too large outside of it, And

1418
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 1: he's like it went from that too. You know, everything

1419
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 1: is sort of once once, once once. They're sort of

1420
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: like immediate rallying, like here's our demand, there's our goal,

1421
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: like like disappears. Everything just sort of splinters into these

1422
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 1: like weird fragment groups and you get like a bunch

1423
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 1: of Japanese Marxists just like shooting each other over nothing

1424
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,519
Speaker 1: in the mountains, and the whole thing sort of just implodes.

1425
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean even if you look at like

1426
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: like say Fridays the Futures and an example or like

1427
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 1: extension rebellion, no George Floyd protests, and you can sit

1428
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:03,600
Speaker 1: and just sit and think about the shant numbers involved

1429
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 1: into his movements, the potential of that large mobilization, a

1430
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: mobilization effort, compared to what comes out of them. You know,

1431
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 1: like what other than a few minor policy changes, what

1432
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: has you know, say extinction, rebellion or frids the future

1433
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 1: achieved when you know these massive co operations are still

1434
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:34,439
Speaker 1: actively fights in every step of the way, and these

1435
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: movements are not yet willing to do what it takes

1436
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:42,200
Speaker 1: to you know, accomplished. It needs to be accomplished. Not

1437
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 1: even talking about violence. I'm not talking about violence. I

1438
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:51,640
Speaker 1: am not talking about violence. What I'm talking about is

1439
01:18:54,280 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 1: the efforts involved, the work that goes into social revolution,

1440
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:07,719
Speaker 1: that goes beyond the sort of flashy, easily recognizable march

1441
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: and the street kind of activities, because there's a lot

1442
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 1: of stuff that goes behind the scenes. A lot of

1443
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 1: institutions need to be built from the bottom up, a

1444
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 1: lot of institutions need to be transformed from the inside out.

1445
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: And you know, without that basis in place, which is

1446
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 1: spinning on top in mud. But back to weams like

1447
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 1: me in his generation, he was ready to join an

1448
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 1: uncompromised movement for black freedom and human rights. He joined

1449
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 1: Jesse Gray and protesting the conditions and New York housing,

1450
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 1: particularly infestation of rats and public housing. In fact, and

1451
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 1: this is probably one of my favorite stories of his

1452
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:53,240
Speaker 1: entire you know, like lifetime as an activist, a's no organizer.

1453
01:19:54,040 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 1: In n Jesse Gray, Donald Wellims, his sister to Diane,

1454
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: and two other ternant activists were arrested for disorderly conduct

1455
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. When they unannounced, an uninvited attended

1456
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: a session of Congress and brought the cage of rats

1457
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 1: to the assembly to highlight the uvan hosing condition. Hell yeah,

1458
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 1: I wish I could have been a fly on the

1459
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 1: wall or something to have witnessed that. Yeah, Like I mean,

1460
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:33,960
Speaker 1: it's it's such an impressive thing, even just on a

1461
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 1: sort of like just like a logistical level of where

1462
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 1: did they get this cage of rats from? I mean

1463
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: clearly they got the rats from the housing. The housing

1464
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 1: was so bad. They had the rats run around everywhere,

1465
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 1: imagining like they we're we're not going to use kill trap,

1466
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,800
Speaker 1: We're gonna use like capture traps. Specifically, sweet drop these

1467
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:57,600
Speaker 1: rats on Congress like these rules. It's perfect. It's perfect,

1468
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:01,479
Speaker 1: is that sort of energy that you helped him to

1469
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:05,000
Speaker 1: create that group the legislators while he was in the army,

1470
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 1: you know. But what I mean because they you know,

1471
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 1: dropped some rats in Congress and they got arrested. The

1472
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 1: c h UM lost It's the Community Council learn Housing

1473
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 1: lost its funding, and Jesse Gray losssibility to pay his organizers.

1474
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,200
Speaker 1: And just that line Alane just kind of stood out

1475
01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:33,000
Speaker 1: to me. Um that movement that is because these movements,

1476
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 1: you know, back in the day, they were serious about

1477
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 1: getting changed done, and they recognized that to get changed done,

1478
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: you need to have people who are full time involving

1479
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 1: getting that change done. It can be a part time thing.

1480
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 1: And so you know, these movements had these groups, they

1481
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: had like staff that you know, appaid to like put

1482
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,960
Speaker 1: in the work, who could focus all their efforts and

1483
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 1: energy in it. And of course that took fundraise, and

1484
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 1: that took donations, that took support from their local communities

1485
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:03,160
Speaker 1: to get that sort of of support that they needed

1486
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 1: to get things done. Um. I think right now we

1487
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 1: have is a lot of groups that often fizzle out

1488
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 1: to burn out before they could even get started because

1489
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 1: they don't have the resources to support their kind of

1490
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: effort that they will need to get things done when

1491
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: everybody is working one to three jobs. Everybody's booms out

1492
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 1: and re stressed out. And this was my organizing experience

1493
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 1: at least. Um, it's very hard to get stuff done

1494
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:37,680
Speaker 1: when everybody's tired all the time. It's very hard to

1495
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:40,599
Speaker 1: get things off the ground when everybody is busy all

1496
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 1: the time. I think there's another kind of interesting thing

1497
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:45,800
Speaker 1: here too, which is like, it's like, well because so

1498
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: like now we do have organizations where you can get

1499
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:51,679
Speaker 1: paid to be full time staff, but it's it's it's

1500
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 1: NGO if yeah, it's NGO stuff. And and the thing

1501
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:59,560
Speaker 1: I think is it's it's it became this question of

1502
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,440
Speaker 1: sort of I mean a personally, it's about legal structures

1503
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 1: of how you could have like part part of I think, yeah,

1504
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 1: it's about the sort of legal requirements about who can

1505
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 1: actually have and what kinds of organizations and what you

1506
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,280
Speaker 1: have to do to like have an organization that has

1507
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 1: a bank account for example. And then also I think

1508
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: there's this there's just kind of traffic traft people fill

1509
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:25,760
Speaker 1: into where Okay, so you need funding, right, and you

1510
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 1: know the places you can get funding from usually tend

1511
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:31,639
Speaker 1: to be either you're spending your entire time doing donation

1512
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:34,840
Speaker 1: tribes or you're doing these grant stuff, and it's like, well, okay,

1513
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:36,840
Speaker 1: the problem with like both of these basically a giant

1514
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 1: strings attached to them, and so like it sort of

1515
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 1: falls away from the like, hey, we're you know, sort

1516
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,680
Speaker 1: of like paid revolutionary organizers and just degrades and some

1517
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 1: more enteo stuff exactly exactly, and the incentive structure completely changes.

1518
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 1: And of course they also potodynamics involved and you know,

1519
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: pervoices and paid organizers and that sort of thing. But

1520
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 1: I mean, if if, if you know, these these liberal

1521
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 1: organizations and getting all this fund and getting all these support,

1522
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 1: they're able to sustain themselves and keep pushing their cause,

1523
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 1: and all radical movements and militant movements are floundering. Again,

1524
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:23,480
Speaker 1: where are we going with this? You know? Yeah. But afterwards,

1525
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 1: with the loss of funding, Weems left the cciege and

1526
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:30,679
Speaker 1: then he joined the Central hallm Communitee for Self Defense

1527
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:35,599
Speaker 1: and Solidarity the student protests and Columbia University. That committee

1528
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:38,879
Speaker 1: would bring food and water to the students who occupy

1529
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 1: the buildings in the Columbia campus. And that's another important

1530
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,560
Speaker 1: things to pointing to when I was talking about the

1531
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 1: less flashy work that goes into it. Because people are

1532
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:51,640
Speaker 1: talking about general strike, because they have this vision of

1533
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:54,680
Speaker 1: this general strike that everybody's you know, standing out in

1534
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:56,759
Speaker 1: the streets and this big crowds out in the streets

1535
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:58,599
Speaker 1: and we all refused to work, and it's rude, whe

1536
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 1: it's wonderful. But a general strike can only be pulled

1537
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 1: off if there's a strike funding place, if there's a

1538
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 1: a strike banking place where resources are available for people

1539
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 1: to draw from. Doesn't a strike, contrary to some perspectives

1540
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:24,599
Speaker 1: or I guess some misled approaches, it's not when you

1541
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 1: tell your boss, hey, let me get a day off.

1542
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 1: It's like a grunge strike real quick. A strike is

1543
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: you refusal to work. It is unpaid. It is a

1544
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 1: risky endeavor. You don't just walk out without organized support

1545
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:50,519
Speaker 1: from your fellow co workers at the very least. And

1546
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 1: part of what makes a strike successful, part of what

1547
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 1: makes a protest or a sitting or any kind of

1548
01:25:55,280 --> 01:26:02,720
Speaker 1: movement successful is having a network of care work instituted.

1549
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 1: So you see that the Central Hall and Community for

1550
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 1: Self Defense in solidarity with another movement, brought food and

1551
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 1: water to the students who are occupying the buildings, and

1552
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:18,679
Speaker 1: because they brought food and water, those students are able

1553
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 1: to continue occupying, occupying those buildings and continue struggling for

1554
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 1: the causes they were struggling for. I don't think they're

1555
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:31,639
Speaker 1: enough people, and not to just count people that are.

1556
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 1: If it doesn't fall in your garden, you don't after

1557
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 1: watch it. I think there needs to be more people

1558
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:41,240
Speaker 1: who are going into that care work, which is marginalized

1559
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 1: because it's just alsociated with women and non men really,

1560
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: but it's it's something that we need to account for, something,

1561
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:53,760
Speaker 1: it needs to be one of the principal arms of

1562
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:57,879
Speaker 1: our strategy. Like like when I was doing tenant organizing,

1563
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 1: is like I did was like, what did I do?

1564
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:02,599
Speaker 1: The tenant organized? Was like, well, okay, so I went

1565
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: around to put signs up on move chairs around, I

1566
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:07,960
Speaker 1: took care of people's kids, like that was like feeling

1567
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:11,400
Speaker 1: most of it. There's just a lot of like I

1568
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,840
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean stuff like childcare like that, that

1569
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Like he's a vital part of any

1570
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 1: If if is a vital part of any political movement

1571
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:22,960
Speaker 1: that's actually going to succeed, that you're trying to run

1572
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:25,240
Speaker 1: and nobody wants to talk about or do it because

1573
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:31,000
Speaker 1: it's not the like exciting like we're throwing a brick

1574
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 1: at a cop or whatever. Stuff. Yeah, exactly, I sat

1575
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,760
Speaker 1: no more postal notes. And this is the part where

1576
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:43,479
Speaker 1: he changes his name. Not a Beams would associated himself

1577
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 1: with the Yoruba Temple in hard just organized by Nana

1578
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: Sir Jimani. The Detroit boone at Offumi was initiated in

1579
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 1: Cuba in the Lukumi Rights of the Ruba urgin. And

1580
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 1: he saw the West African religious and cultural heritage as

1581
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,479
Speaker 1: a means of cultural self determination and peoplehood for African

1582
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 1: and science the United States. Recently there was a Netflix

1583
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 1: documentary about the ways that Euroban traditions have been kept

1584
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:16,400
Speaker 1: alive across the quote and quote New World. And so

1585
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 1: you will see um in Cuba and in Brazil and

1586
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 1: in trying to be a goole, and in the US,

1587
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:28,640
Speaker 1: the Uba practices and cultural components have just and sustained.

1588
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 1: And so when as who may established the Oruba Temple

1589
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 1: in New York, Starry in Detroit was the Detroit New

1590
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 1: York in Detroit, Um, I would say Detroit. He so

1591
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:53,320
Speaker 1: it has an institution two, a naturalistic institution meant to

1592
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:57,759
Speaker 1: advance the cause of the civil rights movement and liberation.

1593
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:02,280
Speaker 1: Black liberation movement. You sort of African nines everything, you know,

1594
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 1: names and hats and clues and clubs and churches and

1595
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:08,080
Speaker 1: so a lot of people in Beam generation and so

1596
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:12,479
Speaker 1: you see people like like Malcolm X adopting a new monica.

1597
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 1: They rejected, you know, these European names and adopted African

1598
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,400
Speaker 1: or Arabic names. So when we're gonna see to the

1599
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 1: Urban Temple, he would no longer be Donald Weems. He

1600
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 1: took an away day name Kuasi meaning mail born on

1601
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: a Sunday, and the urban name Blagoon meaning wallord. And

1602
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 1: so that again ties into his whole passion for militancy

1603
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:45,720
Speaker 1: because he is basically a wall lord born born on

1604
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:48,200
Speaker 1: a Sunday. I don't know what she would as a

1605
01:29:48,240 --> 01:29:53,760
Speaker 1: kind of a metal Yeah, it's like now great to fight,

1606
01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: fresh out the room, all kind of thing, but pretty

1607
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 1: sick exactly exactly. But you know, along with finding his

1608
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 1: cultural beer in the Uruba Temple, he got his Black

1609
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:16,040
Speaker 1: pap politics of revolution black nationalism from the Black Paul

1610
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:21,679
Speaker 1: movement the nineteen sixties. Black Pole movement. They realized that,

1611
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, black liberation is not possible without the overthrow

1612
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:31,800
Speaker 1: of the US constitutional order and capitalist economic system. And

1613
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:35,639
Speaker 1: they also recognized and a significant number of black Milton's

1614
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:40,479
Speaker 1: sixties Black Power movement recognized that the classical Marxism Leninism

1615
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:42,880
Speaker 1: was not a free work that they identified with. It

1616
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:45,839
Speaker 1: is something that all of them did adopt an adapt

1617
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:50,080
Speaker 1: but it's not something that they just consumed whole sale.

1618
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 1: And I think that's honestly some nuance that is often

1619
01:30:57,040 --> 01:31:02,120
Speaker 1: obscured when people take this sort of blindly nonstylegic approach

1620
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: to pass you know, movements. Because even even back then,

1621
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:10,080
Speaker 1: even in the early stages Black Power movement, there was

1622
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, political diversity in terms of the aims and

1623
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 1: intentions and beliefs, um different perspectives, even within the same

1624
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:23,400
Speaker 1: political philosophy, um different approaches. The the West Coast Black

1625
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:27,320
Speaker 1: Panthers and the East Coast Black Panthers took different approaches.

1626
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:31,880
Speaker 1: The West Coast Black Panthers were more class focused, whereas

1627
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 1: the East Coast Lack Panthers were more Pan Africa and

1628
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 1: the approach, and that honestly caused a lot of tension

1629
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:41,639
Speaker 1: between the two of them them were inspired you across

1630
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 1: the board, but the influence of Marxism, the Chinese and

1631
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:48,080
Speaker 1: Cuban revolutions, by other national liberation movements in Africa, Asia

1632
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 1: and the America's because this was a time of course

1633
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:53,479
Speaker 1: where a lot of movements, a lot of countries were

1634
01:31:53,520 --> 01:32:00,200
Speaker 1: getting independence from Britain and France and all together colonized US.

1635
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:04,880
Speaker 1: This is also a time where more and more people

1636
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:08,759
Speaker 1: were you know, building their criticisms and the racism present

1637
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:12,120
Speaker 1: in the old Left, and so they wanted a theoretical

1638
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:16,720
Speaker 1: vehicle that that gave them the self determination, the ideological

1639
01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 1: self determination that they needed. Like they were with the

1640
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:23,200
Speaker 1: whole civilrights movement, they were fighting within it, but they

1641
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:25,799
Speaker 1: wanted more than what the civil rights movement was offering.

1642
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:28,360
Speaker 1: They wanted more than just civil rights between within a

1643
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 1: settler colonial state. And they would not going to sit

1644
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:35,640
Speaker 1: back and just be satisfied with non violence as a

1645
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 1: way of life. All of them sold the civil rights

1646
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:43,600
Speaker 1: movement as well as as something integrationists or something pro assimilationist,

1647
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:50,680
Speaker 1: whereas they wanted something more insurgent, more revolutionary, and so

1648
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, they brought together all these different things, um,

1649
01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 1: Black nationalism and self determination, Marxian critiques of capitalism and

1650
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:01,680
Speaker 1: a direct action proved that was you know, in the

1651
01:33:01,680 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 1: civilrights movement from the beginning, and so Blagoon became a revolutionary.

1652
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 1: He began to read literature by the autobiography of Malcom

1653
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:21,400
Speaker 1: X and Robert Williams, spoke negroes with guns, and he

1654
01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:26,760
Speaker 1: also learned from the leaders that surrounded him, like the

1655
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:29,679
Speaker 1: leader of the n c c UM and the leaders

1656
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:35,720
Speaker 1: of of you know, the Black Panthers. What do you

1657
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:42,120
Speaker 1: recognized someone long inspired by militancy is a black liberation

1658
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:51,680
Speaker 1: only come about through protracted gorilla warfare. I don't think

1659
01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:54,360
Speaker 1: you have to go over like the origins of Black

1660
01:33:55,400 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 1: Panthers and detail um. But just to summarize, the Black

1661
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:04,000
Speaker 1: Panther Party was founded in Oakland, California in response to

1662
01:34:04,120 --> 01:34:10,679
Speaker 1: the abuses of the police UM upon residents of Oakland,

1663
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 1: and so after Huey Newton, when the founders a Black

1664
01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:18,360
Speaker 1: Panther Party and one of his comrades got on a

1665
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:23,360
Speaker 1: shootout with the Oakland Police Department and survived UM and

1666
01:34:23,400 --> 01:34:28,280
Speaker 1: one of the officers actually got fatally wounded. Newton basically

1667
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 1: became a national hero to the only England black youth

1668
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 1: who you know, like you can't even conceive that this

1669
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:43,320
Speaker 1: guy fought the state and won. He had like a

1670
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:46,360
Speaker 1: small win, but he won. And so that's when you

1671
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 1: see like the whole Free Huey movement kickoff, because you know,

1672
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:53,760
Speaker 1: he was charged with phrase murder for his name the

1673
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:59,800
Speaker 1: cop he shot, and Free hue was the Irallian cry,

1674
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:04,040
Speaker 1: Black Pole and La circles. Eventually, BPP came to New

1675
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:10,160
Speaker 1: York in some of the nine and I mean people

1676
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:13,520
Speaker 1: try to kick off Black Panther Party New York beforehand

1677
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:17,439
Speaker 1: in sixty six, but it didn't work out. So this

1678
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:23,200
Speaker 1: new Black Panther Party in New York kicked off and

1679
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 1: began to build support in the hundreds. The same month

1680
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 1: that Dr King was assassinated, he had a lot of

1681
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:38,640
Speaker 1: members of the b PP coming together two sort of

1682
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 1: figure out a direction because although they may have been

1683
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 1: critical of the Souf Rights movement, the lost Dr King

1684
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:48,800
Speaker 1: was a major blue to everyone because even if they

1685
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:54,839
Speaker 1: disagree with him, he was still an inspiration. So Bobby

1686
01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:57,080
Speaker 1: CeAl and Cathain Cleeveld came to New York and they

1687
01:35:57,080 --> 01:36:03,000
Speaker 1: appointed eighteen year old, eighteen year World ESSENCC member Judon

1688
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:06,519
Speaker 1: Ford as acting Captain of Defense of the BPP. And

1689
01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:08,120
Speaker 1: that's another thing a lot of people forget, like these

1690
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:12,479
Speaker 1: people are young, really young. Fred Hamilton died when he

1691
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 1: was twenty one, assassinated, of course, and so it's like

1692
01:36:20,439 --> 01:36:26,320
Speaker 1: an inspiration honestly, and also like a rallying cry for

1693
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:32,920
Speaker 1: all young people who feel disimportant, disenchanted, disheartened by all

1694
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,040
Speaker 1: the different aspects of collapse that us surrounded us, you know,

1695
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:39,920
Speaker 1: like we can stand up and fight back. But anyway,

1696
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 1: so Judon Ford became the acting Captain Defense of the

1697
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 1: BPP of the East Coast and he was soon joined

1698
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:50,080
Speaker 1: by David Brothers and they found the the BPP in Brooklyn.

1699
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:55,719
Speaker 1: In National leadership of the BPP also sent Ron penny

1700
01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:59,680
Speaker 1: Well to give directions to New York Chapter, and so

1701
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 1: Pennyell was there and he was involved, and he became

1702
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:06,440
Speaker 1: a captain in the ranks, and he was very grassroots

1703
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 1: in his approach. The Harlem branch of the New York

1704
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:14,080
Speaker 1: Chapter will be founded by Blue Bomber Shakur, who was

1705
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:19,600
Speaker 1: the son of Malcolm X associates Suladin Shaku, and that

1706
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:22,800
Speaker 1: same Saladin Shako was He served as a mentor and

1707
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:24,920
Speaker 1: a servid father for many of the members of the

1708
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:30,000
Speaker 1: New York of New York's Black Panther Party, and you know,

1709
01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:32,320
Speaker 1: all these different people and all these different groups and

1710
01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:35,400
Speaker 1: stuff for mixing and molding and melding and getting together.

1711
01:37:37,080 --> 01:37:40,400
Speaker 1: And eventually the New York chapter the BPP would grow

1712
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:42,920
Speaker 1: to become among the largest, if not the largest, in

1713
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:50,559
Speaker 1: the entire organization, but approximately five hundred members. So went

1714
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:53,400
Speaker 1: Bytagoon found out the BPP was organized in New York.

1715
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:56,760
Speaker 1: He went and he joined. He felt, you know, like

1716
01:37:56,920 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 1: empowered by the Black Panther Party's ten point program. And

1717
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:04,880
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, the ten point program was,

1718
01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:09,559
Speaker 1: you know, a pretty straightforward. One. We want freedom. Two

1719
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:12,519
Speaker 1: we want full employment. Three you want an end to

1720
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:15,280
Speaker 1: the robbery by the white man of our black community.

1721
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:20,080
Speaker 1: Four we want decent housing. Five want education that exposes

1722
01:38:20,120 --> 01:38:23,680
Speaker 1: the true nature of this decadent American society, teaches us

1723
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:27,519
Speaker 1: a true history, not rule in present day society. Six

1724
01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:31,920
Speaker 1: you want black men to be exempt from military service. Seven.

1725
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,320
Speaker 1: We want an immediate end to police brutality and mood

1726
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:37,280
Speaker 1: of black people. Eight you want freedom for all black men.

1727
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:40,960
Speaker 1: Helen federal, state, county, and city prisons and jails nine,

1728
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:44,000
Speaker 1: you want all black people to be brought to child

1729
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:46,920
Speaker 1: to be tried in a court by a jury of

1730
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:52,040
Speaker 1: their peers from black communities because at the time, and

1731
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:56,759
Speaker 1: I still exists today UM and even affected UM during

1732
01:38:56,800 --> 01:38:59,960
Speaker 1: tours in being tried for these things and some as

1733
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:03,360
Speaker 1: single black face, and the entire jury it's entirely white,

1734
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 1: middle class upper class three members. And lastly ten, we

1735
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:16,160
Speaker 1: want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And

1736
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 1: so Balagoon was drawn to this. He's identified with the

1737
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:27,200
Speaker 1: organization's Maoist axiom that political power comes from the barrel

1738
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:32,080
Speaker 1: of the gun um and was inspired by you know

1739
01:39:32,240 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 1: the way us that the Chinese Revolution inspired the Black

1740
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:41,599
Speaker 1: Panther Party. However, the structure from the beginning, the structure

1741
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:44,840
Speaker 1: of the Black Panther Party did pose some challenges for

1742
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:50,040
Speaker 1: Balagoon and it really only got worse from there to

1743
01:39:50,160 --> 01:39:54,439
Speaker 1: The Black Panther Party was structured with the National Center

1744
01:39:54,479 --> 01:39:57,559
Speaker 1: Community the n SEC as the highest decision making body

1745
01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:03,599
Speaker 1: and the entire organization across the entire country. Even though

1746
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 1: the New York chapter was the largest in the entire

1747
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:13,320
Speaker 1: UM Party, the ant C was concentrated in Oakland, which

1748
01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:16,439
Speaker 1: is where you know, the party was founded, and so

1749
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:19,840
Speaker 1: most of the body was associated with people who knew

1750
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:24,599
Speaker 1: Hugh Newton. There was a whole chain of command and

1751
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 1: like I said, that whole style and structure of governor

1752
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:35,839
Speaker 1: speaking a factor and Baltagoon's attraction to anti authority in politics.

1753
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 1: And of course he was not alone in being critical

1754
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:42,160
Speaker 1: of the structure of the party. John Cox, Shanty Allston

1755
01:40:42,479 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 1: learned to come to it and many others but also

1756
01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:49,639
Speaker 1: developed similar critiques, drawing them from a similar direction. Because

1757
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:54,880
Speaker 1: Bagon had this experience organized and beforehand, and he recognized

1758
01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:00,160
Speaker 1: the good that you know, the party was doing, but

1759
01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:02,919
Speaker 1: he also taken issue with how the party was structured.

1760
01:41:05,400 --> 01:41:07,280
Speaker 1: So when he got involved, you know, he was ready

1761
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:10,360
Speaker 1: to participate and work with oppressed black communities and around

1762
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:15,439
Speaker 1: these basic issues. Um For example, in September nine, the

1763
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:19,200
Speaker 1: Black Panther Party members participating in a community take over

1764
01:41:19,400 --> 01:41:22,880
Speaker 1: of Lincoln Hospital, which at the time was dilapidated and

1765
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:28,080
Speaker 1: disinvested and was not able to save the predominantly black

1766
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:31,719
Speaker 1: and Latino residents. As all Bronx and so the BPP

1767
01:41:31,840 --> 01:41:33,960
Speaker 1: in New York would work with the Puerto Rican Young

1768
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:36,880
Speaker 1: Lords and the Professional Government of the Republic of New

1769
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 1: Africa to take over and reform the detox program at

1770
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:47,200
Speaker 1: Lincoln Hospital. And that boldness again so inspirational, because how

1771
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:51,080
Speaker 1: many of us are willing today two just like so

1772
01:41:51,240 --> 01:41:54,840
Speaker 1: boldly this walking and take over these broken institutions, to

1773
01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:56,479
Speaker 1: put them in the hands of the community, to make

1774
01:41:56,479 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 1: them whole, hopeful institutions for the people. I think we

1775
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:06,120
Speaker 1: need more of that boldness. So New York Panthers were

1776
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:09,280
Speaker 1: prey much involved in tennant organizing as well, which is

1777
01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:14,639
Speaker 1: right up Ballagoon's alley. Um oh, I guess we could

1778
01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:20,759
Speaker 1: call him rat catcher um. And they were also involved

1779
01:42:20,760 --> 01:42:23,920
Speaker 1: in fights for community control over the school system and

1780
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 1: the police. Eventually, Baldagoon and another Panther, Richard Harris, would

1781
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:41,920
Speaker 1: be arrested in February nine on bank robbery charges in

1782
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:46,360
Speaker 1: New York, New Jersey. On April second, n sixty nine,

1783
01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:48,320
Speaker 1: less than one year after the founding of the New

1784
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:51,559
Speaker 1: York chapter of the b PP, twenty one Panther leaders

1785
01:42:51,560 --> 01:42:55,599
Speaker 1: and organizers, including Balagoon and Harris, were united twelve arrested

1786
01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:59,800
Speaker 1: and conspiracy charges and a thirty count indictment and of

1787
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:02,559
Speaker 1: was This case became known as New York Panther one.

1788
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:06,519
Speaker 1: The charges included conspiracy to bomb the New York Botanical

1789
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:10,400
Speaker 1: gardens and police stations and two assassin police officers. And

1790
01:43:10,479 --> 01:43:12,960
Speaker 1: after the arrest, mostly defendants were released on a hundred

1791
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:19,400
Speaker 1: tho dollars bail, but Blagoon was held without bail. So

1792
01:43:19,400 --> 01:43:23,040
Speaker 1: they were being charged for this like claim that they

1793
01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:27,120
Speaker 1: were going to ambush New York police. Um based on

1794
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:32,880
Speaker 1: the testimony of one nineteen year old Panther member, Juan Byrd,

1795
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:37,479
Speaker 1: who had been beaten by the police in order to

1796
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:41,240
Speaker 1: you know, make a statement that was favorable to the prosecution,

1797
01:43:42,680 --> 01:43:45,320
Speaker 1: like beaten as an her mom pulled up to the

1798
01:43:45,320 --> 01:43:49,600
Speaker 1: police station to hear her daughter screaming visibly beaten with

1799
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:52,519
Speaker 1: a black eyes, swollen lip, bruises on her face, everything,

1800
01:43:55,240 --> 01:43:59,880
Speaker 1: and so um Ballagoon and the other person who was

1801
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:03,120
Speaker 1: be in charge with this attempt to ambush the police,

1802
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:07,240
Speaker 1: who was a guy named Odinga, and he had escaped

1803
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:15,880
Speaker 1: and went under ground, but Laguna Dot but then ended

1804
01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:20,040
Speaker 1: up going fleeing the United States, settling down in Algeria

1805
01:44:20,520 --> 01:44:25,000
Speaker 1: and all that jazz. But Blagoon not only was he

1806
01:44:25,120 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 1: charged with all the others were charged with, but he

1807
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:32,799
Speaker 1: was separated from the others and face charges in New Jersey.

1808
01:44:32,880 --> 01:44:35,000
Speaker 1: All the others where in New York as and he

1809
01:44:35,080 --> 01:44:38,479
Speaker 1: was split in behind bars for two years. The other

1810
01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:45,160
Speaker 1: defendants whore acquitted. And as a result of you know,

1811
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:49,840
Speaker 1: all this legal battling and maneuvering, since a lot of

1812
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:52,280
Speaker 1: the key organizers and leaders as a New York Plat

1813
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:59,000
Speaker 1: Panther Party were incarcerated, the organization was pretty badly crippled,

1814
01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:06,760
Speaker 1: and as with its you know, activities and general momentum,

1815
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:11,360
Speaker 1: I think that's that's that's something that the Planted Party

1816
01:45:11,360 --> 01:45:14,960
Speaker 1: had to struggle with very often, having it's it's key members,

1817
01:45:15,040 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 1: it's it's leaders and and and members incarcerated and charged

1818
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:26,759
Speaker 1: and facing trial. And so as a result, Panther Party

1819
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:31,320
Speaker 1: was almost for almost its entire existence, was basically fighting

1820
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:33,800
Speaker 1: charges and trying to get its members out of jail

1821
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 1: and this, that and the other. It's a lot of

1822
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:41,160
Speaker 1: its efforts ended up treating towards that. So I think

1823
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 1: seeing now the New York Plant Party was crippled, I

1824
01:45:43,800 --> 01:45:48,640
Speaker 1: think it highlights the importance of distribution and decentralization when

1825
01:45:48,680 --> 01:45:52,120
Speaker 1: it comes to organizing it. How I the importance of

1826
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:56,160
Speaker 1: as the future Stabolitionists of the Americans say, moving like

1827
01:45:56,240 --> 01:45:59,960
Speaker 1: my core is a my core is basically a mute

1828
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:04,760
Speaker 1: world relationship between fungi and plant roots. So they move

1829
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:07,320
Speaker 1: nutrients seen plants they're connected to, and they basically create

1830
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:12,799
Speaker 1: this kind of fungal network that that spreads across an ecosystem,

1831
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:15,920
Speaker 1: and it prevents researchers from basically able to see where

1832
01:46:16,120 --> 01:46:19,679
Speaker 1: they begin where they end. They you know, they grow slowly.

1833
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:23,240
Speaker 1: Sometimes they pop up above ground there's like mushrooms and stuff,

1834
01:46:23,240 --> 01:46:28,720
Speaker 1: but primarily they exist underground. And so what the our

1835
01:46:28,760 --> 01:46:31,599
Speaker 1: future establishers are talking about is basically creating a movement

1836
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:36,320
Speaker 1: that is primarily underground that spreads and is interconnected and

1837
01:46:37,320 --> 01:46:41,599
Speaker 1: cannot be pinned down with such a clear pinned down

1838
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:45,400
Speaker 1: or easily infiltrated like how the party was able to

1839
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:50,200
Speaker 1: with such a clear you know, structure and the chain

1840
01:46:50,280 --> 01:46:58,280
Speaker 1: of command. So basically move like mccres A, work from

1841
01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:01,080
Speaker 1: the ground or underground and work for the roots, work

1842
01:47:01,160 --> 01:47:08,479
Speaker 1: from the roots MHM. Eventually, after most of his comrades

1843
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:12,680
Speaker 1: were acquitted, Balagum pleaded guilty to the charges that he

1844
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:16,519
Speaker 1: and somebody else did attempt to shoot the police officers

1845
01:47:17,479 --> 01:47:20,400
Speaker 1: so then he became the only one of twenty one

1846
01:47:20,400 --> 01:47:29,400
Speaker 1: original defendants who was actually convicted. So that was going on. Um.

1847
01:47:29,439 --> 01:47:31,280
Speaker 1: You know, while the New York plant the case was

1848
01:47:31,320 --> 01:47:39,640
Speaker 1: being played out, Balagoon's politics were starting to shift revolutionary

1849
01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:43,160
Speaker 1: nationalism and democratic and the democratic centralism of the party

1850
01:47:43,280 --> 01:47:50,479
Speaker 1: were beginning to if you healthy critique, I would say,

1851
01:47:50,960 --> 01:47:54,520
Speaker 1: and Balagoon is starting to shift more towards anti authoritarian politics.

1852
01:47:56,400 --> 01:47:59,799
Speaker 1: At the same time, about's going through that political journey.

1853
01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:04,439
Speaker 1: More generally speaking, the New York Black Panther Party was

1854
01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:07,720
Speaker 1: getting to feel disenchanted with how the national leadership was

1855
01:48:07,760 --> 01:48:12,320
Speaker 1: handling things. Like the tension had already existed because of

1856
01:48:12,360 --> 01:48:15,679
Speaker 1: the differences in focus, you know what, the New York

1857
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:19,559
Speaker 1: Panthers being more Pan African and the Oakland Panthers being

1858
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:26,840
Speaker 1: more class focused. But one of the after one of

1859
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:33,880
Speaker 1: the leaders of the Panther Party, Geronimo Pratt, had been

1860
01:48:33,920 --> 01:48:40,360
Speaker 1: purged from leadership for his coute que counter revolutionary behavior,

1861
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:47,160
Speaker 1: um tension started to build because Pratt was seen as

1862
01:48:47,160 --> 01:48:49,200
Speaker 1: a hero to a lot of members of the New

1863
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:54,960
Speaker 1: York UM Party because he had been very much parliamentary,

1864
01:48:55,600 --> 01:48:59,200
Speaker 1: he had been very much paramilitarily organized, and he had

1865
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:03,760
Speaker 1: taken it up upon himselves the train Panther members in

1866
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:08,360
Speaker 1: paramilitary tactics. And so after he was you know, push

1867
01:49:08,360 --> 01:49:13,880
Speaker 1: from the leadership um and a few other leaders were

1868
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:25,800
Speaker 1: also pouged. The New York Panthers began to feel disconnected

1869
01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:28,800
Speaker 1: from the from the national because the whole reason they

1870
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:31,240
Speaker 1: were attracted to the Panther Party is because of this

1871
01:49:31,240 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 1: this image of armed Panthers patrolling against the police of

1872
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:40,439
Speaker 1: you know, underground perrilla warfare um, and so, you know,

1873
01:49:40,439 --> 01:49:43,080
Speaker 1: the New York Panther movement was very much associated with that.

1874
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:51,680
Speaker 1: But once they saw the sort of pudges they were

1875
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:54,720
Speaker 1: taken place, um, some of which they looked up to.

1876
01:49:55,960 --> 01:50:00,400
Speaker 1: When they saw that the national leadership sent these other

1877
01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:02,800
Speaker 1: guys Robert Bay and told on Stoli into New York

1878
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:07,759
Speaker 1: to assume leadership of the chapter to basically important leaders

1879
01:50:07,800 --> 01:50:10,759
Speaker 1: from outside movement, rather than sort of bring up new ones,

1880
01:50:11,760 --> 01:50:18,920
Speaker 1: you know, from within the local community. It basically work

1881
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:21,920
Speaker 1: to destabilize what the New York Panthers were working for.

1882
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:27,240
Speaker 1: Because when these guys rolled up, they had a very autocratic,

1883
01:50:27,439 --> 01:50:30,559
Speaker 1: hierarchical style of leadership, unlike you know, the Pennywell guy

1884
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:36,080
Speaker 1: who was very much grassroots in his approach. And I

1885
01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:40,720
Speaker 1: mean even as Sata Suku had like basically critiqued the

1886
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:43,040
Speaker 1: quality of the West Coast leaders sent to New York

1887
01:50:43,439 --> 01:50:47,840
Speaker 1: when she spoke about how Robert Bay and Jolly, who

1888
01:50:47,880 --> 01:50:51,640
Speaker 1: are from the Rest Coast, had a very aggressive, and

1889
01:50:53,560 --> 01:50:56,040
Speaker 1: she said, a belligerent way of talking and dealing with people.

1890
01:50:58,720 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 1: And so that really what built up towards UM from

1891
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:07,600
Speaker 1: simple initial differences of opinions and misunderstanding leaning towards the

1892
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:11,320
Speaker 1: dissolution of the connection between the national leadership and the

1893
01:51:11,320 --> 01:51:16,360
Speaker 1: New York Chapter. The New York Chapter wanted to focus

1894
01:51:16,560 --> 01:51:22,040
Speaker 1: on things of a more national orientation. UM. They wanted

1895
01:51:22,120 --> 01:51:26,559
Speaker 1: to work on the tenant issues that they had started

1896
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:31,719
Speaker 1: with in the first place, but the nationally appointed leadership

1897
01:51:32,920 --> 01:51:36,160
Speaker 1: was not interested in tenant issues and they don't want

1898
01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:39,840
Speaker 1: to play so much focus on on on you know,

1899
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:46,920
Speaker 1: nationalists oriented issues Pan African, its US. And so when

1900
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:51,840
Speaker 1: you know, these groups were reassigned from their tenant organizing

1901
01:51:52,320 --> 01:51:54,519
Speaker 1: to the s the people programs that were working in

1902
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:58,000
Speaker 1: the West Coast that was also presented by the New

1903
01:51:58,040 --> 01:52:00,599
Speaker 1: York Panthers. Because the New York pan Douse they were

1904
01:52:01,200 --> 01:52:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, working on certain things. They had like tenant

1905
01:52:03,400 --> 01:52:05,880
Speaker 1: organizing behind their belt, and they had like these different

1906
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:08,840
Speaker 1: mutual league projects and stuff going on, these you know,

1907
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:13,559
Speaker 1: sort of support and solidarity things going on, and to

1908
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:16,160
Speaker 1: be toold from the outside, Hey, stop doing this tenant

1909
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:18,360
Speaker 1: organizing and stuff. Do these things as working where we

1910
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:23,080
Speaker 1: are coming from. It didn't play out well yeah, I

1911
01:52:23,080 --> 01:52:25,479
Speaker 1: mean the last time in Or told me to do that,

1912
01:52:25,520 --> 01:52:29,639
Speaker 1: I left. I literally had this happen to me, which

1913
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:36,240
Speaker 1: just like no, yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't work O.

1914
01:52:37,880 --> 01:52:40,120
Speaker 1: Not to mention. And I mean this was a criticism

1915
01:52:40,280 --> 01:52:42,559
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier about who. A lot of the focus

1916
01:52:42,680 --> 01:52:45,880
Speaker 1: ended up being towards um getting people out of jail

1917
01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:50,360
Speaker 1: and you know, dealing with legal defense. One thing about

1918
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:53,439
Speaker 1: we criticized was the fact that the national leadership selected

1919
01:52:53,600 --> 01:52:55,400
Speaker 1: leader to him and who would be released from view

1920
01:52:55,960 --> 01:52:58,679
Speaker 1: m like, it didn't matter you know what the round

1921
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:02,080
Speaker 1: and file or fell prisoners of war or who had

1922
01:53:02,120 --> 01:53:05,360
Speaker 1: the Lewis Bill or whatever, what about it is what

1923
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:08,680
Speaker 1: the leadership, who the leadership wanted to be chosen to

1924
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:12,479
Speaker 1: be allowed. And of course it should also be noted

1925
01:53:12,520 --> 01:53:15,120
Speaker 1: that parts of what was building these tensions and building

1926
01:53:15,120 --> 01:53:19,240
Speaker 1: these divisions quo until prove, and you know, the FBI

1927
01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:22,880
Speaker 1: working at every separate the way to foment divisions and

1928
01:53:23,320 --> 01:53:25,960
Speaker 1: fire up divisions within the national leadership, within the New

1929
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:28,519
Speaker 1: York Chapter, even within the New York plants, the twenty

1930
01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:31,799
Speaker 1: one defendants. So you can't you can't reach that aspect

1931
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:35,680
Speaker 1: of it. Yes we can. We can criticize these organizations

1932
01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:38,120
Speaker 1: and these movements for their missteps. We also to keep

1933
01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:40,439
Speaker 1: in mind the context that they were in, the tensions

1934
01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:42,120
Speaker 1: they were facing, and the fact that they were being

1935
01:53:42,160 --> 01:53:47,479
Speaker 1: openly assaulted and clandestinely assaulted by the US government and

1936
01:53:47,880 --> 01:53:52,439
Speaker 1: all you know, angles at all corners. I think sometimes

1937
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:54,920
Speaker 1: it's like they both kind of fit together in that,

1938
01:53:55,920 --> 01:53:59,880
Speaker 1: Like if you look at what the U. S. Intelligence

1939
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:04,800
Speaker 1: Services were good at, right the very the very specific

1940
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:07,400
Speaker 1: thing they'd become incredibly good at because they've been doing

1941
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:10,400
Speaker 1: it for you know, like basically since the end of

1942
01:54:10,439 --> 01:54:12,360
Speaker 1: World War Two, is that they were really really good

1943
01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:15,240
Speaker 1: at hammering down these like these sort of like centralized

1944
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:18,920
Speaker 1: party apparatus. Is like that's how they basically turned cpu

1945
01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:23,200
Speaker 1: SA from like genuinely really powerful political movement the thirties

1946
01:54:23,240 --> 01:54:25,320
Speaker 1: to like by the fifties, it's entirely run by like

1947
01:54:25,360 --> 01:54:28,559
Speaker 1: the FBI, and so yeah, it's like this is this

1948
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:31,120
Speaker 1: is kind of mismatch here because it's like, on the

1949
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:33,560
Speaker 1: one hand, you're suffering incredibly heavy repression, but then also

1950
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:35,880
Speaker 1: it's like the political form that you're taking is a

1951
01:54:35,880 --> 01:54:39,400
Speaker 1: form that the U. S. State has gotten really really

1952
01:54:39,440 --> 01:54:42,640
Speaker 1: good at fighting. So the two issues sort of like

1953
01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:49,360
Speaker 1: compound each other exactly exactly. And so of course, like

1954
01:54:49,440 --> 01:54:52,320
Speaker 1: it's not like the rank and file that necessarily just

1955
01:54:52,320 --> 01:54:54,440
Speaker 1: going to roll over fun that these things happen, right,

1956
01:54:54,640 --> 01:54:56,680
Speaker 1: So they were trying their best to like submit these

1957
01:54:56,680 --> 01:55:02,200
Speaker 1: criticisms to the national leadership through the like Black Panther newspaper,

1958
01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:09,600
Speaker 1: but eventually the New York Panther twenty one defendants took

1959
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:13,720
Speaker 1: a public position and there was seen as critical of

1960
01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:17,200
Speaker 1: the national leadership when they sent an open letter to

1961
01:55:17,240 --> 01:55:24,640
Speaker 1: the Weather Underground, which they published on the nineteenth January,

1962
01:55:25,080 --> 01:55:26,600
Speaker 1: those who don't know the weather on the ground was

1963
01:55:26,640 --> 01:55:32,960
Speaker 1: basically a bunch of um white radicals who basically we're

1964
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:35,000
Speaker 1: trying to fight the U. S. Government by doing a

1965
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:39,320
Speaker 1: bunch of bollins and fighting souldarity with national liberation movements

1966
01:55:39,360 --> 01:55:44,400
Speaker 1: like in Vietnam. Yeah, the stuff ranges from like pretty funny,

1967
01:55:44,480 --> 01:55:47,840
Speaker 1: like they kept blowing up the statue for the Haymarket cops,

1968
01:55:48,080 --> 01:55:51,960
Speaker 1: to like, what are you guys doing? It's it was.

1969
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 1: It was a very weird organization. Yeah, yeah, quite quite

1970
01:55:57,120 --> 01:56:02,640
Speaker 1: quite the characters and so um. The Open Letter applauded

1971
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:06,040
Speaker 1: the insludent actions because Cubman New York Party was very

1972
01:56:06,120 --> 01:56:09,760
Speaker 1: much intact militant sort of stuff. So the Open Letter

1973
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:13,840
Speaker 1: applauded the insludent actions of the Weather Underground and acknowledged

1974
01:56:13,880 --> 01:56:15,920
Speaker 1: them as part of the Van God of the revolutionary

1975
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 1: movements United States. They never mentioned the national leadership of

1976
01:56:19,640 --> 01:56:22,880
Speaker 1: the b p P, but they also critiqued like kind

1977
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:27,960
Speaker 1: of like a a subtle sort of unspoken kind of thing,

1978
01:56:28,400 --> 01:56:32,560
Speaker 1: shady kind of through shade. Basically, they were like critical

1979
01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:38,200
Speaker 1: of self proclaimed a vanguard parties that abandoned the action

1980
01:56:38,280 --> 01:56:41,200
Speaker 1: to the radical and the ground struggle and the political prisoners.

1981
01:56:41,480 --> 01:56:43,120
Speaker 1: I mean, that's as open as you could be with

1982
01:56:43,200 --> 01:56:48,960
Speaker 1: the actually saying. But yeah, so of course, and Babdagoon

1983
01:56:49,120 --> 01:56:53,760
Speaker 1: was you know, he agreed with this criticism. And so

1984
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:57,400
Speaker 1: because the national leadership had you know, wasn't you know

1985
01:56:57,440 --> 01:57:03,240
Speaker 1: actually attacking the occupational forces of the la Ploma state anymore. Um.

1986
01:57:03,360 --> 01:57:05,560
Speaker 1: And because you know, a lot of money being collected

1987
01:57:05,640 --> 01:57:08,080
Speaker 1: was going towards Bill, and a lot of people were

1988
01:57:08,080 --> 01:57:10,000
Speaker 1: sycriticizing the fact that some of the leaders who were

1989
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:16,200
Speaker 1: beginning to live pretty comfortably while a lot of the

1990
01:57:16,440 --> 01:57:19,600
Speaker 1: rank and file was based we were sitting out in jail.

1991
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:24,320
Speaker 1: Once the letter went out, new Turn basically expelled the

1992
01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:30,080
Speaker 1: Plant and basically declared the Plant at one enemies of

1993
01:57:30,160 --> 01:57:35,800
Speaker 1: the people. Jesus. Yeah, a lot of them, and not

1994
01:57:35,880 --> 01:57:39,200
Speaker 1: just Plant the twenty one, but also the New York

1995
01:57:39,240 --> 01:57:42,960
Speaker 1: EPP leaders in general, just all of them branded enemies

1996
01:57:42,960 --> 01:57:46,680
Speaker 1: of the people. Um. Some of the defendants like Richard

1997
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:53,520
Speaker 1: to Ruben Moore and set Away Table and a few

1998
01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:57,680
Speaker 1: others also ended up going to Algeria late in the month.

1999
01:57:57,800 --> 01:58:00,560
Speaker 1: Members of the New York Black Panther Party who will

2000
01:58:00,600 --> 01:58:03,040
Speaker 1: the press conference and basically equal for the purge of

2001
01:58:03,080 --> 01:58:06,320
Speaker 1: human Newton and the Planta Party chief of staff David

2002
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:10,600
Speaker 1: Hilliard and the formation of a new National Central Committee

2003
01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:15,480
Speaker 1: and basically, like I said, officially split from the National Organization.

2004
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:18,360
Speaker 1: I want to find interesting able with that approach to

2005
01:58:18,440 --> 01:58:21,240
Speaker 1: it is they basically fought fire with fire, for one,

2006
01:58:21,880 --> 01:58:23,600
Speaker 1: so you're like, oh, you want to call us enemy

2007
01:58:23,600 --> 01:58:25,520
Speaker 1: of the people, we were going to call you enemies

2008
01:58:25,560 --> 01:58:29,760
Speaker 1: of the people. And then on top of that, you

2009
01:58:29,800 --> 01:58:31,919
Speaker 1: also have to deal with the fact that their solution

2010
01:58:32,040 --> 01:58:36,400
Speaker 1: to the problem of the National Central Committee being too

2011
01:58:36,400 --> 01:58:40,160
Speaker 1: big for their bridges and interfere and with their grassroots

2012
01:58:40,160 --> 01:58:43,839
Speaker 1: politics was like, you know, we needed a new National

2013
01:58:43,960 --> 01:58:47,720
Speaker 1: Central Committee. Well, you know what, this reminds me of

2014
01:58:47,800 --> 01:58:51,120
Speaker 1: a lot. Yes, it reminds me of a lot of

2015
01:58:51,120 --> 01:58:53,000
Speaker 1: the stuff that happens in the sort of early cultural

2016
01:58:53,000 --> 01:58:56,680
Speaker 1: revolution where it's like you have a bunch of people well,

2017
01:58:56,720 --> 01:58:59,120
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, the big difference of the early culture revolutions,

2018
01:58:59,280 --> 01:59:02,360
Speaker 1: like every single group is like claiming at their loyal demount.

2019
01:59:02,400 --> 01:59:03,960
Speaker 1: But like you get a lot of these things where

2020
01:59:04,760 --> 01:59:06,600
Speaker 1: you know, people people will be like, hey, the party

2021
01:59:06,600 --> 01:59:09,600
Speaker 1: has been becoming incredibly overbearing, and then you get like

2022
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:12,480
Speaker 1: most of them are just like okay, like our solution

2023
01:59:12,520 --> 01:59:14,480
Speaker 1: to this is we are now the party. But then

2024
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:17,760
Speaker 1: you you get these sort of like ultra left groups

2025
01:59:17,880 --> 01:59:23,080
Speaker 1: who are making sort of like not exactly anarchist but

2026
01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:25,440
Speaker 1: are making sort of structural critiques of it, and those

2027
01:59:25,440 --> 01:59:31,800
Speaker 1: guys just get like purged and killed. I don't know,

2028
01:59:33,000 --> 01:59:37,200
Speaker 1: the dynamics and the critiques remind me of it. Yeah,

2029
01:59:37,320 --> 01:59:40,560
Speaker 1: I think it's something that we see just in general

2030
01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:47,600
Speaker 1: and politics. Honestly, it's a sort of limitation of the imagination. Wait,

2031
01:59:47,720 --> 01:59:50,400
Speaker 1: people aren't on't conceiving of things like outside of what

2032
01:59:50,440 --> 01:59:54,280
Speaker 1: has already been done. I mean, I myself and guilty

2033
01:59:54,280 --> 01:59:56,600
Speaker 1: of this because a lot of my inspirations are like

2034
01:59:57,680 --> 02:00:02,120
Speaker 1: pre colonial coaches and you know, societies and stuff. But

2035
02:00:03,320 --> 02:00:06,040
Speaker 1: still I try to like bring those into a new

2036
02:00:06,120 --> 02:00:08,440
Speaker 1: context and think of ways that can be applied differently.

2037
02:00:10,040 --> 02:00:12,760
Speaker 1: I just when you think about this approach it where

2038
02:00:13,480 --> 02:00:15,880
Speaker 1: you have the issues of the National Central Committee, the

2039
02:00:15,960 --> 02:00:18,160
Speaker 1: solution is to create a new central Committee rather than

2040
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:23,480
Speaker 1: consider an approach that's not involved a National Central Committee. Um.

2041
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:25,600
Speaker 1: I think that's something we see all too all too often,

2042
02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:30,520
Speaker 1: or even like just nostalgia politics in general, people's whole

2043
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:39,720
Speaker 1: approach to politics is trying to replicate past movements. But anyway,

2044
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:45,960
Speaker 1: so as you see in balagoons involvements, you know, well,

2045
02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:49,440
Speaker 1: as a child, I'm gonna with his parents, you know,

2046
02:00:49,440 --> 02:00:53,839
Speaker 1: with the Cambridge protests with the army and his involvement

2047
02:00:53,880 --> 02:00:57,480
Speaker 1: in that. But the New York Tenants organizing UM with

2048
02:00:57,680 --> 02:01:00,520
Speaker 1: the Plant, the Party, with the Europa Temple, all these

2049
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:05,960
Speaker 1: things how to inform his political development, inspired him to

2050
02:01:05,960 --> 02:01:12,960
Speaker 1: be part of dynamic revolutionary movements that he respected and

2051
02:01:13,080 --> 02:01:18,320
Speaker 1: he loved and he trusted. But it also helped him

2052
02:01:18,360 --> 02:01:24,480
Speaker 1: to question the decision making and the nature of organizations

2053
02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:30,840
Speaker 1: and how the structure of organizations um relates to state repression.

2054
02:01:33,000 --> 02:01:35,000
Speaker 1: So my name Jail. You tend to have a lot,

2055
02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:38,840
Speaker 1: a lot of time to think and consider, and so

2056
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:42,920
Speaker 1: Bablagoon wanted to sit and think and basically correct all

2057
02:01:42,960 --> 02:01:46,480
Speaker 1: these ideological weaknesses that are the stirring in his head

2058
02:01:47,400 --> 02:01:53,760
Speaker 1: that basically compromised the militant liberation movements that he wanted

2059
02:01:53,800 --> 02:02:00,320
Speaker 1: to see liberate his people. So I can good by

2060
02:02:00,360 --> 02:02:05,080
Speaker 1: saying that we must learn from the past. In this

2061
02:02:05,520 --> 02:02:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, short for agents about Lagoon's life, We've ended

2062
02:02:10,760 --> 02:02:13,560
Speaker 1: up coming to a lot of different conversations about the

2063
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:16,520
Speaker 1: nature of movements today. And I think that sort of

2064
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:19,960
Speaker 1: critical approach to you know, people's history something we should

2065
02:02:19,960 --> 02:02:24,640
Speaker 1: be doing more often in our modern discussions of the past,

2066
02:02:25,400 --> 02:02:30,280
Speaker 1: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Anyway, join us

2067
02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:36,080
Speaker 1: for part two of Valagoon's journey, as we explore his

2068
02:02:36,840 --> 02:02:43,000
Speaker 1: path towards new African anarchism. You can find me Andrew

2069
02:02:43,480 --> 02:02:47,320
Speaker 1: on YouTube, dot com slash Andwism, and on Twitter at

2070
02:02:47,360 --> 02:02:52,320
Speaker 1: underscore saying true this has been It could Happen Here?

2071
02:02:55,880 --> 02:03:00,920
Speaker 1: Chris was here too. Yeah. You can find us at

2072
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:04,560
Speaker 1: Happened Here Pod on Twitter and Instagram. Follow us at

2073
02:03:04,560 --> 02:03:23,400
Speaker 1: the Cool Zone. Yeah, I'll see you next time. Welcome

2074
02:03:23,480 --> 02:03:26,800
Speaker 1: to It Could Happen Here, the podcast about stuff falling

2075
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:29,000
Speaker 1: apart and how we can maybe put some of it

2076
02:03:29,080 --> 02:03:34,160
Speaker 1: back together. Today, I'm your host, Garrison Davis. Though this

2077
02:03:34,200 --> 02:03:36,920
Speaker 1: episode is going to be more of an it did

2078
02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:40,360
Speaker 1: happen here sort of thing, as this is part one

2079
02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:43,760
Speaker 1: of a special three part series made in collaboration with

2080
02:03:43,880 --> 02:03:47,960
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Community Press about the history of the old

2081
02:03:48,040 --> 02:03:52,800
Speaker 1: Atlanta Prison Farm. If you haven't listened to my super

2082
02:03:52,800 --> 02:03:57,400
Speaker 1: sized three hour two part series on the Defend the

2083
02:03:57,400 --> 02:04:01,120
Speaker 1: Atlanta Forest Movement from last May, i'd recommend you check

2084
02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:04,480
Speaker 1: that out just for you know, extra context, but it's

2085
02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:08,160
Speaker 1: not strictly necessary, as will be mostly going over history

2086
02:04:08,240 --> 02:04:11,600
Speaker 1: for these next few episodes, although I will sprinkle in

2087
02:04:11,760 --> 02:04:15,120
Speaker 1: updates about what's been happening in Atlanta related to the

2088
02:04:15,200 --> 02:04:19,480
Speaker 1: stop Cop City movement throughout this series. At the end

2089
02:04:19,520 --> 02:04:22,440
Speaker 1: of this episode, there will be a summary about the

2090
02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:27,320
Speaker 1: most recent week of action now for this series, not

2091
02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:31,800
Speaker 1: only did the Atlantic Community Press provide the vast majority

2092
02:04:31,880 --> 02:04:35,560
Speaker 1: of the historical research and format for these episodes, I

2093
02:04:35,600 --> 02:04:38,520
Speaker 1: was also able to record with two members of the collective,

2094
02:04:38,720 --> 02:04:42,720
Speaker 1: Sam and Laura, so you'll hear snippets of our conversations

2095
02:04:42,760 --> 02:04:45,640
Speaker 1: over the course of these next few episodes as well.

2096
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:49,920
Speaker 1: Last year, in the lead up to the Atlanta's City

2097
02:04:49,960 --> 02:04:53,560
Speaker 1: Council signing over hundreds of acres of forest to the

2098
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:56,320
Speaker 1: Atlanta Police Foundation to build a state of the art

2099
02:04:56,440 --> 02:04:59,960
Speaker 1: militarized police training facility, complete with a large mock city,

2100
02:05:00,560 --> 02:05:03,600
Speaker 1: around that same time, a group of people decided to

2101
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:07,960
Speaker 1: look into the history of the land in question, famed

2102
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:12,680
Speaker 1: for being the site of an old federal prison honor farm.

2103
02:05:12,720 --> 02:05:15,440
Speaker 1: This was also around the same time last year when

2104
02:05:15,680 --> 02:05:20,000
Speaker 1: more atrocities of the residential school systems were being unearthed,

2105
02:05:20,520 --> 02:05:24,160
Speaker 1: and with the Atlanta Police Foundations plans to bulldoze large

2106
02:05:24,240 --> 02:05:26,920
Speaker 1: sections of forest that were once used as an old

2107
02:05:27,040 --> 02:05:32,440
Speaker 1: labor prison, the possibility of disturbing forgotten grave sites seemed

2108
02:05:32,520 --> 02:05:37,720
Speaker 1: to be worth considering. Um, okay, I'm Sam. I help

2109
02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:41,320
Speaker 1: out with I do research for the Atlantic Community Press Collective, UM,

2110
02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:47,680
Speaker 1: so that means I file open records requests. I accidentally

2111
02:05:48,160 --> 02:05:51,920
Speaker 1: I helped accidentally write a seventeen page history report in summer,

2112
02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:57,920
Speaker 1: and I listened to fun things like community stakeholders committee

2113
02:05:57,960 --> 02:06:04,280
Speaker 1: meetings and UH council meetings. What is the inception for

2114
02:06:04,360 --> 02:06:09,640
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Community Press Collective. So at the beginning, it

2115
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:12,640
Speaker 1: was me, Laura and another friend of ours, and we

2116
02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:14,480
Speaker 1: were all just kind of involved on the periphery of

2117
02:06:14,480 --> 02:06:18,160
Speaker 1: the movement. Laura, please feel free to correct me if

2118
02:06:18,960 --> 02:06:22,080
Speaker 1: direct me also, but just as part of the general

2119
02:06:22,120 --> 02:06:25,560
Speaker 1: movement and resistance to Cops City. One of us raised

2120
02:06:25,560 --> 02:06:29,080
Speaker 1: the question I based on when the prison farm was

2121
02:06:29,080 --> 02:06:33,400
Speaker 1: an operation. One of us asked, I wonder if they're

2122
02:06:33,480 --> 02:06:36,120
Speaker 1: unmarked graves there, because given the error in which the

2123
02:06:36,120 --> 02:06:41,680
Speaker 1: prison farm was an operation, it's not unrealistic that people

2124
02:06:41,720 --> 02:06:47,040
Speaker 1: were just buried on site, especially m for prisoners who

2125
02:06:47,080 --> 02:06:50,280
Speaker 1: didn't have families to claim them, which is horrible, but

2126
02:06:50,400 --> 02:06:53,800
Speaker 1: there you go. Um. That was sort of the genesis

2127
02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:57,160
Speaker 1: of our history report. And then I guess naturally, as

2128
02:06:57,200 --> 02:07:00,840
Speaker 1: an extension of that, we started asking questions of city

2129
02:07:00,880 --> 02:07:06,360
Speaker 1: government and county government about the I guess construction process

2130
02:07:06,360 --> 02:07:10,320
Speaker 1: of Cops City. Throughout the development of Cops City, concerns

2131
02:07:10,400 --> 02:07:14,840
Speaker 1: regarding environmental racism, police violence, and land stewardship in an

2132
02:07:14,840 --> 02:07:18,040
Speaker 1: era of climate change have all been discussed, if not

2133
02:07:18,120 --> 02:07:20,960
Speaker 1: by local government or the Atlanta Police Foundation, but at

2134
02:07:21,000 --> 02:07:25,280
Speaker 1: least by community members, some local press, and national media.

2135
02:07:25,440 --> 02:07:29,280
Speaker 1: Despite this, very little is actually publicly known about the

2136
02:07:29,320 --> 02:07:33,400
Speaker 1: actual history of the land that Atlanta Police Foundation wants

2137
02:07:33,400 --> 02:07:36,280
Speaker 1: to build Cops City on and the history of the

2138
02:07:36,320 --> 02:07:41,400
Speaker 1: prison farm itself. The most often cited histories suggests that

2139
02:07:41,440 --> 02:07:44,240
Speaker 1: the land was the site of a federal prison farm

2140
02:07:44,640 --> 02:07:47,240
Speaker 1: that was later taken over by the city and then

2141
02:07:47,400 --> 02:07:52,280
Speaker 1: soon abandoned. Archival research into the site on Key Road,

2142
02:07:52,720 --> 02:07:56,760
Speaker 1: conducted by volunteers with the Atlantic Community Press, tell a

2143
02:07:56,880 --> 02:08:01,120
Speaker 1: different story. Months of archival research trivial that not only

2144
02:08:01,240 --> 02:08:05,520
Speaker 1: was it never run federally, it was run as a

2145
02:08:05,600 --> 02:08:09,240
Speaker 1: city prison farm uninterrupted from about nineteen twenty to the

2146
02:08:09,280 --> 02:08:15,320
Speaker 1: early nine nineties and doing considerable harm to those incarcerated throughout.

2147
02:08:15,840 --> 02:08:20,280
Speaker 1: Despite claims of reform made at every stage through the

2148
02:08:20,320 --> 02:08:26,080
Speaker 1: gathering of old legal notices, old newspaper articles, letters from nurses,

2149
02:08:26,640 --> 02:08:32,040
Speaker 1: legislative and inspection records, and oral histories of forgotten legacy

2150
02:08:32,120 --> 02:08:37,760
Speaker 1: of torture, overcrowding slave conditions, quote unquote, the lack of healthcare,

2151
02:08:37,920 --> 02:08:42,480
Speaker 1: labor strikes, death, and unmarked Popper's graves have slowly been

2152
02:08:42,520 --> 02:08:47,320
Speaker 1: rediscovered through Atlanta's radical scene. And this just barely scratches

2153
02:08:47,360 --> 02:08:50,839
Speaker 1: the surface. As the Atlantic community press conducted their research,

2154
02:08:51,240 --> 02:08:56,920
Speaker 1: to conflicting surprises arose, one being that there was just

2155
02:08:57,280 --> 02:09:01,920
Speaker 1: so much available historical documentation that seemingly very few people

2156
02:09:02,040 --> 02:09:05,120
Speaker 1: had dug into and put together correctly in the past,

2157
02:09:05,760 --> 02:09:09,080
Speaker 1: and two that there was so much information that was

2158
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:14,640
Speaker 1: just missing entirely, records that were either just missing, destroyed, misfiled,

2159
02:09:14,960 --> 02:09:19,360
Speaker 1: or possibly were never kept in the first place. The

2160
02:09:19,440 --> 02:09:23,120
Speaker 1: nature of this kind of archival research is pulling on

2161
02:09:23,120 --> 02:09:27,200
Speaker 1: one question and then finding dozens more. With limited time

2162
02:09:27,200 --> 02:09:30,440
Speaker 1: and resources, you can find yourself with more questions than

2163
02:09:30,480 --> 02:09:34,200
Speaker 1: definitive answers. These episodes are meant to just be a

2164
02:09:34,240 --> 02:09:38,400
Speaker 1: brief overview of the broad strokes of this history, while

2165
02:09:38,440 --> 02:09:43,040
Speaker 1: also serving as a survey of the possible directions that

2166
02:09:43,120 --> 02:09:47,600
Speaker 1: further research can take. Many people, including an individual on

2167
02:09:47,640 --> 02:09:52,280
Speaker 1: the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee for the Atlanta Public Safety

2168
02:09:52,280 --> 02:09:56,080
Speaker 1: Training Center a k a COP City, have advocated that

2169
02:09:56,160 --> 02:10:00,440
Speaker 1: there must be responsible, in depth investigations into the history

2170
02:10:00,440 --> 02:10:04,840
Speaker 1: of this land and many of its current physical attributes

2171
02:10:04,880 --> 02:10:10,200
Speaker 1: before any further development could take place. Katherine Nichols already

2172
02:10:10,240 --> 02:10:14,400
Speaker 1: laid the groundwork for such research in her thesis on

2173
02:10:14,480 --> 02:10:18,560
Speaker 1: the unmarked graves and burial grounds of the Brandon Indian

2174
02:10:18,840 --> 02:10:22,160
Speaker 1: Residential School System and the history of what took place

2175
02:10:22,240 --> 02:10:27,040
Speaker 1: during its operation. A three pronged approach includes archival research,

2176
02:10:27,520 --> 02:10:31,920
Speaker 1: field research, and qualitative interviews with effective members of community.

2177
02:10:32,120 --> 02:10:34,680
Speaker 1: This type of research will be discussed more in the

2178
02:10:34,880 --> 02:10:39,560
Speaker 1: third episode. However, this research would take time, and with

2179
02:10:39,720 --> 02:10:44,640
Speaker 1: construction and deforestation attempts proceeding at an increasing rate, the

2180
02:10:44,680 --> 02:10:48,240
Speaker 1: opportunity to do further on the ground historical research is

2181
02:10:48,320 --> 02:10:52,560
Speaker 1: quickly vanishing. The same policing institutions that caused so much

2182
02:10:52,600 --> 02:10:58,160
Speaker 1: harm are increasingly trying to physically bulldoze away centuries of history.

2183
02:10:58,320 --> 02:11:01,120
Speaker 1: We did not set out to write this word. We

2184
02:11:01,200 --> 02:11:04,160
Speaker 1: did not We did not know literally when we started

2185
02:11:04,160 --> 02:11:07,480
Speaker 1: writing this that the Wooten Report and the same we

2186
02:11:07,560 --> 02:11:10,960
Speaker 1: old Atlanta prison farm campaigns proved it incorrect history. We

2187
02:11:11,000 --> 02:11:14,880
Speaker 1: didn't know there were two more than two. Frankly, prison farms.

2188
02:11:16,080 --> 02:11:18,480
Speaker 1: No one's wrong for not knowing about this, But we've

2189
02:11:18,520 --> 02:11:22,400
Speaker 1: emailed this to city council repeatedly. Laura has Laura has

2190
02:11:22,480 --> 02:11:27,080
Speaker 1: done amazing, tenacious work and just making sure that every

2191
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:32,360
Speaker 1: single government official involved in this project knows exactly what

2192
02:11:32,520 --> 02:11:36,800
Speaker 1: kind of violence there perpetuating the cops. City is bad

2193
02:11:36,920 --> 02:11:40,080
Speaker 1: enough on its own, but when you have an accurate

2194
02:11:40,240 --> 02:11:43,920
Speaker 1: historical understanding of not just what they are building, but

2195
02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:46,920
Speaker 1: where they are building it, it's beyond the pale. It's

2196
02:11:46,920 --> 02:11:50,520
Speaker 1: beyond belief. It's it's disgusting. They want to build this

2197
02:11:50,640 --> 02:11:52,840
Speaker 1: and stolen indigenous land. They want to build this on

2198
02:11:52,880 --> 02:11:56,760
Speaker 1: a slave plantation. Are you kidding me? What were we

2199
02:11:56,800 --> 02:11:59,280
Speaker 1: out in the streets for? What are people still out

2200
02:11:59,320 --> 02:12:02,520
Speaker 1: in the streets are? I know they know what we're saying.

2201
02:12:03,280 --> 02:12:05,960
Speaker 1: I know they know who we are. I know they're listening.

2202
02:12:06,600 --> 02:12:11,040
Speaker 1: It's just disgusting. It's disgusting to me. Before we continue,

2203
02:12:11,320 --> 02:12:15,520
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about the idea of history.

2204
02:12:16,200 --> 02:12:18,520
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people, especially white people,

2205
02:12:18,960 --> 02:12:23,760
Speaker 1: are engagement with history is often so distant we keep

2206
02:12:23,760 --> 02:12:29,800
Speaker 1: ourselves othered, conceptualizing history as some abstract narrative instead of

2207
02:12:29,800 --> 02:12:34,120
Speaker 1: the direct flesh and blood we ourselves and our systemic

2208
02:12:34,160 --> 02:12:38,480
Speaker 1: relations grew out of. History should be the tales and

2209
02:12:38,600 --> 02:12:43,880
Speaker 1: songs of joy and sorrow and pain, generational wisdom and

2210
02:12:43,960 --> 02:12:47,400
Speaker 1: trauma told by the people who lived it, not just

2211
02:12:47,520 --> 02:12:50,920
Speaker 1: a list of names and the numerical record keeping of

2212
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:55,000
Speaker 1: the structures that caused ongoing suffering, which still benefit from

2213
02:12:55,040 --> 02:12:59,680
Speaker 1: this abstraction. Preserving history for its own sake is all

2214
02:13:00,000 --> 02:13:03,800
Speaker 1: and good, but doing preservation with an explicit, ecological and

2215
02:13:03,920 --> 02:13:07,640
Speaker 1: intersectional drive can be much more insightful, not to mention,

2216
02:13:07,760 --> 02:13:11,720
Speaker 1: respectful for those who it literally happened to in the past.

2217
02:13:12,920 --> 02:13:16,520
Speaker 1: This perspective argues for the preservation on the basis of

2218
02:13:16,600 --> 02:13:21,240
Speaker 1: its material effects on people both past and present, and

2219
02:13:21,360 --> 02:13:25,880
Speaker 1: to demonstrate the direct continuity of control of these structures

2220
02:13:25,880 --> 02:13:29,200
Speaker 1: over the people they affect and the repeating patterns of

2221
02:13:29,280 --> 02:13:34,640
Speaker 1: rhetoric used to justify it. Similarly, Katherine Nichols points out

2222
02:13:34,680 --> 02:13:37,880
Speaker 1: in her residential school thesis that it's essential to view

2223
02:13:37,960 --> 02:13:41,400
Speaker 1: this type of history and these records within a full

2224
02:13:41,560 --> 02:13:47,160
Speaker 1: living context. Obviously, a complete consideration of context is outside

2225
02:13:47,360 --> 02:13:51,040
Speaker 1: the small scope of this podcast and could probably make

2226
02:13:51,120 --> 02:13:55,360
Speaker 1: up multiple volumes of books. The time period will be

2227
02:13:55,440 --> 02:13:59,520
Speaker 1: diving into, roughly the nineteen twenties to present day, has

2228
02:13:59,560 --> 02:14:03,120
Speaker 1: been home to an unceasing trend of the criminalization of

2229
02:14:03,160 --> 02:14:09,560
Speaker 1: many marginalized peoples, especially black, Indigenous, poor, disabled, and mentally

2230
02:14:09,600 --> 02:14:14,120
Speaker 1: ill people, which will see demonstrated throughout the story told

2231
02:14:14,200 --> 02:14:20,160
Speaker 1: here and on into the present. This criminalization of marginalized

2232
02:14:20,240 --> 02:14:25,240
Speaker 1: people's coincides with institutions of power engaging in what Lauren

2233
02:14:25,360 --> 02:14:31,520
Speaker 1: Berland calls the slow death. The phrase slow death refers

2234
02:14:31,640 --> 02:14:35,000
Speaker 1: to the physical wearing out of a population and the

2235
02:14:35,080 --> 02:14:39,720
Speaker 1: deterioration of people in that population that is very nearly

2236
02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:45,200
Speaker 1: a defining condition of their experience and historical existence. It's

2237
02:14:45,240 --> 02:14:50,000
Speaker 1: like a mass phenomenon of material and metaphysical restriction that

2238
02:14:50,200 --> 02:14:54,760
Speaker 1: typically already marginalized people face when living under capitalist or

2239
02:14:54,800 --> 02:15:01,120
Speaker 1: authoritative governing structures. The slow death manifests by intentionally and

2240
02:15:01,200 --> 02:15:06,200
Speaker 1: repeatedly subjugating people to events and conditions known to contribute

2241
02:15:06,200 --> 02:15:10,080
Speaker 1: to suffering, resulting in an early death of those deemed

2242
02:15:10,200 --> 02:15:15,440
Speaker 1: less valuable by capital interests, sometimes even at their own expense.

2243
02:15:16,000 --> 02:15:19,720
Speaker 1: Other times for the sake of profit. All that gets

2244
02:15:19,760 --> 02:15:23,840
Speaker 1: passed down through generations with the corresponding generational trauma that

2245
02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:29,520
Speaker 1: becomes a defining feature of personal and cultural identity. In

2246
02:15:29,560 --> 02:15:32,440
Speaker 1: the case of the prison farm, we see the slow

2247
02:15:32,560 --> 02:15:37,280
Speaker 1: death and living history in many forms. A swastika found

2248
02:15:37,360 --> 02:15:41,160
Speaker 1: in one of the bedrooms, white inmates going on strike.

2249
02:15:41,280 --> 02:15:46,280
Speaker 1: Shortly after the prison farm is racially integrated, Stokely Carmichael

2250
02:15:46,480 --> 02:15:49,800
Speaker 1: is held at the farm for several days on the

2251
02:15:49,920 --> 02:15:52,800
Speaker 1: charge of loitering. At the height of the Civil rights era,

2252
02:15:53,680 --> 02:15:57,880
Speaker 1: after Martin Luther King's assassination, donkeys from the prison farm

2253
02:15:58,080 --> 02:16:02,480
Speaker 1: pull his casket through town. Own nurses beg for more

2254
02:16:02,600 --> 02:16:08,040
Speaker 1: tuberculosis tests for overcrowded prisoners. Homeless alcoholics are repeatedly cycled

2255
02:16:08,080 --> 02:16:11,280
Speaker 1: in and out of the system. All of these instances

2256
02:16:11,320 --> 02:16:14,480
Speaker 1: are similar to others both at the time and now

2257
02:16:14,520 --> 02:16:18,400
Speaker 1: in present today, and reflect the racial and class dynamics

2258
02:16:18,440 --> 02:16:22,879
Speaker 1: at the heart of the constral system. These same socio

2259
02:16:22,880 --> 02:16:27,200
Speaker 1: political forces continued to shape the social landscape of Atlanta,

2260
02:16:27,360 --> 02:16:31,160
Speaker 1: whether that be through the criminalization of Atlanta's water boys,

2261
02:16:31,480 --> 02:16:36,120
Speaker 1: black teenagers who sell ice cold drinks to motorists. We

2262
02:16:36,200 --> 02:16:39,720
Speaker 1: also see it in the ongoing eviction and housing crisis,

2263
02:16:40,320 --> 02:16:42,720
Speaker 1: the lack of resources in the midst of a pandemic,

2264
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:46,480
Speaker 1: the continued cycling of homeless people through the prison system

2265
02:16:46,560 --> 02:16:50,640
Speaker 1: instead of providing humane housing, the squashing of anti state

2266
02:16:50,680 --> 02:16:55,080
Speaker 1: protests but allowance of white supremacists and anti vax protests.

2267
02:16:55,920 --> 02:17:00,039
Speaker 1: All these highlight the further need for this history to

2268
02:17:00,080 --> 02:17:03,160
Speaker 1: be told by the people it affects, rather than the

2269
02:17:03,200 --> 02:17:07,440
Speaker 1: institutions responsible, which are already seeking to take hold and

2270
02:17:07,600 --> 02:17:11,160
Speaker 1: control the narratives surrounding this piece of land and their

2271
02:17:11,200 --> 02:17:15,800
Speaker 1: own history. The Police Foundation has announced its intention to

2272
02:17:15,959 --> 02:17:21,560
Speaker 1: build separate museums on the site, dedicated to police officers, firefighters,

2273
02:17:21,600 --> 02:17:25,160
Speaker 1: and the labor prison that was once located there. The

2274
02:17:25,280 --> 02:17:29,000
Speaker 1: museum idea has been framed as a concession to last

2275
02:17:29,080 --> 02:17:33,360
Speaker 1: year's anti cops city call in campaigns, a concession that

2276
02:17:33,400 --> 02:17:37,840
Speaker 1: will result in land being paved over and as sanitized,

2277
02:17:38,000 --> 02:17:43,160
Speaker 1: police approved history to be built over top the offending

2278
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:46,560
Speaker 1: institutions like the Atlanta Police Department, the Atlanta Police Foundation,

2279
02:17:47,000 --> 02:17:50,200
Speaker 1: City Council in the Mayor's office, and the media organizations

2280
02:17:50,200 --> 02:17:53,720
Speaker 1: which support them try to pay lip service to the

2281
02:17:53,760 --> 02:17:57,520
Speaker 1: atrocities of the past as quickly as possible while retaining

2282
02:17:57,600 --> 02:18:02,240
Speaker 1: all the power and then bulldozing for the forgotten history

2283
02:18:02,360 --> 02:18:06,440
Speaker 1: as well discuss vague gestures towards the harms of the

2284
02:18:06,480 --> 02:18:10,960
Speaker 1: past without material accountability for the harm done have been

2285
02:18:11,040 --> 02:18:15,400
Speaker 1: used throughout the prison Farm's history to justify continued control

2286
02:18:15,800 --> 02:18:22,360
Speaker 1: of physical and narrative space, and is simply vapid virtue signaling. Now,

2287
02:18:22,360 --> 02:18:26,680
Speaker 1: before we deep dive into the prison farm itself, as

2288
02:18:26,680 --> 02:18:29,879
Speaker 1: a part of the intent to place the history in

2289
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:34,960
Speaker 1: its full living context, it's necessary to state the land

2290
02:18:35,080 --> 02:18:38,000
Speaker 1: the prison farm was built on was a thriving trade

2291
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:42,400
Speaker 1: hub for Native Americans throughout the continent. Every story that

2292
02:18:42,440 --> 02:18:47,759
Speaker 1: takes place in quote unquote America has grown from genocide, colonialism,

2293
02:18:47,800 --> 02:18:52,200
Speaker 1: broken treaties, and the division of interconnected land into individual

2294
02:18:52,320 --> 02:18:56,280
Speaker 1: parcels for ownership. This is part of the history and

2295
02:18:56,320 --> 02:18:59,560
Speaker 1: needs to be reckoned with and fully reconciled before anyone

2296
02:18:59,680 --> 02:19:03,880
Speaker 1: can truly be free. That extensive history is outside the

2297
02:19:03,920 --> 02:19:06,720
Speaker 1: scope of this episode, but we are trying to get

2298
02:19:06,760 --> 02:19:10,520
Speaker 1: such topics discussed on this platform with more qualified people.

2299
02:19:11,360 --> 02:19:14,840
Speaker 1: The most frequently cited history about this piece of land

2300
02:19:15,400 --> 02:19:19,080
Speaker 1: is a historical analysis of the Atlanta Prison of Farm

2301
02:19:19,240 --> 02:19:23,119
Speaker 1: by Jillian Wootton of the City Planning Department, written in nine.

2302
02:19:24,879 --> 02:19:27,720
Speaker 1: In it, we are told that the Key Road property

2303
02:19:28,160 --> 02:19:31,280
Speaker 1: was purchased in nineteen eighteen by the Bureau of Prisons

2304
02:19:31,440 --> 02:19:35,280
Speaker 1: and the United States federal government. It was called the

2305
02:19:35,360 --> 02:19:39,840
Speaker 1: Honor Farm, and federal prisoners grew crops and raised livestock

2306
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:44,320
Speaker 1: to feed the population of the nearby Federal penitentiary. The

2307
02:19:44,360 --> 02:19:49,480
Speaker 1: piece claims that the site operated until nineteen six when

2308
02:19:49,520 --> 02:19:53,080
Speaker 1: it was then purchased by the Atlanta City government and

2309
02:19:53,120 --> 02:19:58,640
Speaker 1: shut down soon after, at which point the history becomes murky,

2310
02:19:58,680 --> 02:20:01,520
Speaker 1: as a single report of a labor strike on the

2311
02:20:01,600 --> 02:20:05,880
Speaker 1: land seems to contradict claims of the nineteen sixties closing.

2312
02:20:06,480 --> 02:20:10,760
Speaker 1: If you just google old Planta Prison Farm, there's two

2313
02:20:10,760 --> 02:20:14,080
Speaker 1: things that are going to come up. There's a campaign

2314
02:20:14,120 --> 02:20:19,599
Speaker 1: called Save the Old Atlanta Prison Farm, and this website

2315
02:20:19,720 --> 02:20:23,240
Speaker 1: tells you the story of how in the early to

2316
02:20:23,400 --> 02:20:27,320
Speaker 1: mid twentieth century, the federal government operated a prison farm

2317
02:20:27,320 --> 02:20:31,680
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and then sometime in the fifties, the city

2318
02:20:31,680 --> 02:20:33,840
Speaker 1: of Atlanta took it over. And it links to a

2319
02:20:33,959 --> 02:20:38,960
Speaker 1: document written in by a person named Gillian Luton, who

2320
02:20:39,040 --> 02:20:40,840
Speaker 1: I think was probably doing the best She could in

2321
02:20:41,800 --> 02:20:46,280
Speaker 1: given the difficulties we had in researching this, and what

2322
02:20:47,120 --> 02:20:50,160
Speaker 1: this commonly cited history, the Save the Old Wlanta Prison

2323
02:20:50,200 --> 02:20:54,199
Speaker 1: Farm campaign and this more official report written by Jillian

2324
02:20:54,240 --> 02:20:58,600
Speaker 1: Luton tell you is again that sometime in the fifties

2325
02:20:58,680 --> 02:21:02,880
Speaker 1: the city bought this prison bar territory. We found nothing

2326
02:21:02,920 --> 02:21:06,200
Speaker 1: to support that. If our initial question was where the

2327
02:21:06,240 --> 02:21:09,640
Speaker 1: graves where the body is buried, the question we ended

2328
02:21:09,720 --> 02:21:12,920
Speaker 1: up asking was, well, when did the city take over

2329
02:21:12,959 --> 02:21:16,400
Speaker 1: the prison farm from the federal government. And we kept

2330
02:21:16,840 --> 02:21:20,280
Speaker 1: going back and back and back further into historical record

2331
02:21:21,120 --> 02:21:25,560
Speaker 1: until we eventually got to around nineteen eleven, when the

2332
02:21:25,600 --> 02:21:30,519
Speaker 1: city itself bought the property that would become Cops City

2333
02:21:31,080 --> 02:21:34,000
Speaker 1: and operated their own prison farm and long store. Short

2334
02:21:34,040 --> 02:21:38,400
Speaker 1: the conclusion we came to was the federal prison farm

2335
02:21:38,560 --> 02:21:44,720
Speaker 1: was a completely separate property, a completely separate prison system.

2336
02:21:44,840 --> 02:21:49,000
Speaker 1: And sometimes even though this prison farm really only shut

2337
02:21:49,040 --> 02:21:52,480
Speaker 1: down sometime around the early nineteen nineties, in the course

2338
02:21:52,480 --> 02:21:56,440
Speaker 1: of just a few decades, we've forgotten the story of

2339
02:21:56,560 --> 02:21:58,800
Speaker 1: the people who were incurcerated there and the story of

2340
02:21:58,800 --> 02:22:01,760
Speaker 1: the prison farm to the way where we don't even

2341
02:22:01,840 --> 02:22:05,560
Speaker 1: understand that it was its own thing, which is it's

2342
02:22:06,280 --> 02:22:10,720
Speaker 1: it just makes me angry, Like every abuse possible you

2343
02:22:10,720 --> 02:22:13,680
Speaker 1: can imagine happened at the prison farm and we can't

2344
02:22:13,680 --> 02:22:17,640
Speaker 1: even we've just completed it with another prison. Horrible, horrible

2345
02:22:17,680 --> 02:22:21,720
Speaker 1: things happened. Like that's how poor custodians have been of

2346
02:22:21,760 --> 02:22:25,640
Speaker 1: this history. A lot of people don't know that there

2347
02:22:25,680 --> 02:22:30,400
Speaker 1: were actually three prison farms running all in Atlanta essentially

2348
02:22:30,560 --> 02:22:34,039
Speaker 1: once technically technically two of them are into cap Um.

2349
02:22:34,080 --> 02:22:36,920
Speaker 1: There was the U. S Prison Farm Number one federally run.

2350
02:22:37,400 --> 02:22:41,119
Speaker 1: That's the one that most people know now as an

2351
02:22:41,160 --> 02:22:43,960
Speaker 1: apartment complex. Uh sorry, I don't remember it off the

2352
02:22:44,000 --> 02:22:47,440
Speaker 1: top of my head. Then there's number two, which is

2353
02:22:47,480 --> 02:22:50,759
Speaker 1: what people know as the quote unquote on our farm

2354
02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:56,320
Speaker 1: near Panthersville. Then we have the City of Atlanta prison farm.

2355
02:22:56,400 --> 02:23:00,320
Speaker 1: So there are three running at the exact scene time,

2356
02:23:01,400 --> 02:23:05,440
Speaker 1: all with that a fairly short distance from each other.

2357
02:23:06,400 --> 02:23:12,080
Speaker 1: This isn't something that was unique to Georgia by any means,

2358
02:23:12,879 --> 02:23:17,199
Speaker 1: but the history of it is largely ignored. Convict least

2359
02:23:17,240 --> 02:23:24,280
Speaker 1: labor was incredibly common. The archive Atlanta Sorry did a

2360
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:29,080
Speaker 1: podcast specifically on the convict least labor that was done

2361
02:23:29,120 --> 02:23:32,320
Speaker 1: to build the Atlanta streets basically every street in Atlanta

2362
02:23:33,160 --> 02:23:36,240
Speaker 1: was built by convict least labor, and a lot of

2363
02:23:36,280 --> 02:23:39,880
Speaker 1: that labor came from the Atlanta Prison Farm as well

2364
02:23:39,920 --> 02:23:43,400
Speaker 1: as some of the other prison farms around. There's also

2365
02:23:44,040 --> 02:23:49,240
Speaker 1: the Chattahoochee Brickworks Company that was recently turned into a

2366
02:23:49,360 --> 02:23:54,360
Speaker 1: public park, and it was historically acknowledged by our mayor,

2367
02:23:54,480 --> 02:24:00,360
Speaker 1: Mayor Dickens for its horrific atrocities of slave labor or

2368
02:24:00,840 --> 02:24:05,280
Speaker 1: building or creating these bricks at the company m where

2369
02:24:05,360 --> 02:24:11,840
Speaker 1: many people died. So there's just this hypocrisy of hey,

2370
02:24:11,879 --> 02:24:15,440
Speaker 1: we're using slave labor at this location and it is horrific,

2371
02:24:15,600 --> 02:24:20,039
Speaker 1: and we are going to acknowledge that, and we are

2372
02:24:20,080 --> 02:24:22,920
Speaker 1: going to put a plaque out there and do a

2373
02:24:23,000 --> 02:24:29,959
Speaker 1: ribbon cutting ceremony and truly acknowledge this atrocity. Whereas here,

2374
02:24:30,080 --> 02:24:33,600
Speaker 1: because they want the land, they're just going to cover

2375
02:24:33,680 --> 02:24:37,680
Speaker 1: it up and oh, hey, our acknowledgement from this is

2376
02:24:37,760 --> 02:24:42,480
Speaker 1: we're going to utilize some marble library stones in our

2377
02:24:43,040 --> 02:24:48,440
Speaker 1: capaganda entrance to the horse bearings. That's pretty much what

2378
02:24:48,480 --> 02:24:52,160
Speaker 1: they're going to do. The Atlantic Community Press research found

2379
02:24:52,200 --> 02:24:56,480
Speaker 1: that the Wooton History Report actually conflates three different properties.

2380
02:24:56,680 --> 02:24:59,879
Speaker 1: Property number one, a prison farm on the property of

2381
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:05,119
Speaker 1: the Federal Penitentiary, where the penitentiary still exists today. Another property,

2382
02:25:05,240 --> 02:25:09,199
Speaker 1: number two was a second prison farm on Panthersville Road

2383
02:25:09,280 --> 02:25:12,560
Speaker 1: that was purchased from farmers in nineteen twenty and was

2384
02:25:12,640 --> 02:25:17,040
Speaker 1: used to supplement the production of the first federal prison farm.

2385
02:25:17,080 --> 02:25:20,279
Speaker 1: But the third property, and the one that we're focused

2386
02:25:20,280 --> 02:25:23,600
Speaker 1: on here today, is the one on Key Road in

2387
02:25:23,800 --> 02:25:29,240
Speaker 1: unincorporated decap County. This one was only ever owned and

2388
02:25:29,280 --> 02:25:32,400
Speaker 1: operated by the city government and was used to produce

2389
02:25:32,520 --> 02:25:37,520
Speaker 1: food for city prisons. It operated from up until the

2390
02:25:37,680 --> 02:25:41,800
Speaker 1: early nineties before shutting down and being abandoned and then

2391
02:25:41,920 --> 02:25:45,480
Speaker 1: used as a dumping ground for the city until now

2392
02:25:45,480 --> 02:25:48,040
Speaker 1: where they have plans to turn it into a militarized

2393
02:25:48,080 --> 02:25:53,039
Speaker 1: police training facility. After serving as a slave plantation, the

2394
02:25:53,120 --> 02:25:57,879
Speaker 1: Key Road property operated as a municipal dairy farm, but

2395
02:25:58,040 --> 02:26:01,440
Speaker 1: accusations that the farm was loosing the city money, coupled

2396
02:26:01,440 --> 02:26:05,480
Speaker 1: with the ongoing scandals at the city jail stockade in Glenwood,

2397
02:26:06,000 --> 02:26:09,080
Speaker 1: opened up debates within the city government ranging from nineteen

2398
02:26:09,200 --> 02:26:13,520
Speaker 1: fifteen to nineteen twenty about closing the old stockade and

2399
02:26:13,640 --> 02:26:17,400
Speaker 1: moving prisoners to the municipal dairy farm. The stockade was

2400
02:26:17,520 --> 02:26:22,400
Speaker 1: overcrowded and unprofitable, and expanding it would cost the city

2401
02:26:22,520 --> 02:26:26,480
Speaker 1: too much money. Meanwhile, the area it was in was

2402
02:26:26,640 --> 02:26:30,840
Speaker 1: developing quickly and quote filling up with small property owners,

2403
02:26:30,920 --> 02:26:33,320
Speaker 1: and the presence of the stockade is an hindrance to

2404
02:26:33,360 --> 02:26:38,240
Speaker 1: further development unquote. They proposed building a park, or a

2405
02:26:38,320 --> 02:26:42,080
Speaker 1: golf course, or school or all three on the land

2406
02:26:42,160 --> 02:26:48,680
Speaker 1: to cater to new residents. Meanwhile, the Superintendent of Prisons, T. B. Langford,

2407
02:26:48,760 --> 02:26:51,840
Speaker 1: who had also inexplicably be put in control of the

2408
02:26:51,920 --> 02:26:55,160
Speaker 1: municipal dairy in nineteen eighteen, was the subject of a

2409
02:26:55,280 --> 02:27:00,760
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty Atlantic Constitution piece that examined Atlanta Humane Society

2410
02:27:00,800 --> 02:27:05,680
Speaker 1: claims of women's stockade prisoners being tied to a chair

2411
02:27:06,160 --> 02:27:10,040
Speaker 1: known as the Bucking chair and whipped with a strap

2412
02:27:10,200 --> 02:27:15,840
Speaker 1: for disobedience. He at first denied these claims, saying that

2413
02:27:16,080 --> 02:27:19,080
Speaker 1: white women at the stock aide were never whipped to

2414
02:27:19,160 --> 02:27:25,039
Speaker 1: his knowledge and quote Negro women only seldom so unquote.

2415
02:27:25,480 --> 02:27:30,080
Speaker 1: An investigation apparently disproved this, and he was ordered to

2416
02:27:30,240 --> 02:27:34,960
Speaker 1: stop the corporal punishment, which he argued was both good

2417
02:27:35,000 --> 02:27:39,240
Speaker 1: and necessary and should not be stopped because changing the

2418
02:27:39,400 --> 02:27:43,040
Speaker 1: course would be an admission of having done something wrong.

2419
02:27:43,760 --> 02:27:49,359
Speaker 1: He argued that workshy prisoners would need to be motivated somehow,

2420
02:27:50,120 --> 02:27:54,560
Speaker 1: so by the end of January nineteen twenty, Atlantic City

2421
02:27:54,600 --> 02:27:58,680
Speaker 1: Council passed a law banning whippings and offering a new

2422
02:27:58,720 --> 02:28:03,120
Speaker 1: form of punishment instead quote solitary confinement on a diet

2423
02:28:03,200 --> 02:28:08,279
Speaker 1: of bread and water unquote. Complaints of the stockade losing

2424
02:28:08,320 --> 02:28:12,840
Speaker 1: money continued into April nine, and T. B. Langford suggested

2425
02:28:12,920 --> 02:28:16,240
Speaker 1: moving the whole operation to the dairy farm, which he

2426
02:28:16,440 --> 02:28:22,120
Speaker 1: also controlled. Conveniently, prohibition had started earlier that year, so

2427
02:28:22,240 --> 02:28:24,200
Speaker 1: it was suggested that the city could save a lot

2428
02:28:24,200 --> 02:28:27,520
Speaker 1: of money by making a new influx of prisoners work

2429
02:28:27,680 --> 02:28:31,600
Speaker 1: this city dairy. Moving prisoners to the dairy farm had

2430
02:28:31,640 --> 02:28:35,840
Speaker 1: one problem. It was not legal to build prison facilities

2431
02:28:35,920 --> 02:28:39,680
Speaker 1: on land outside city limits, and the Key Road property

2432
02:28:40,000 --> 02:28:44,359
Speaker 1: was located in unincorporated de Cap County despite being owned

2433
02:28:44,400 --> 02:28:48,720
Speaker 1: by the City of Atlanta. This problem was easily solved

2434
02:28:48,760 --> 02:28:51,640
Speaker 1: by city council, who simply passed a bill making it

2435
02:28:51,760 --> 02:28:56,720
Speaker 1: legal to build city prison facilities on land outside the city,

2436
02:28:56,800 --> 02:29:00,800
Speaker 1: even outside of Fulton County. By November, the proposal to

2437
02:29:00,879 --> 02:29:03,360
Speaker 1: close this cockade and move the prisoners to the dairy

2438
02:29:03,360 --> 02:29:07,039
Speaker 1: farm was agreed upon, and from that point forward, the

2439
02:29:07,160 --> 02:29:11,400
Speaker 1: Key Road Municipal Dairy Farm became the Atlanta City Prison

2440
02:29:11,520 --> 02:29:17,560
Speaker 1: and Dairy Farm, later simplified to the Atlantic City Prison Farm.

2441
02:29:18,800 --> 02:29:22,560
Speaker 1: Council members were being praised for bringing in the quote

2442
02:29:22,879 --> 02:29:26,080
Speaker 1: largest number of prisoners at any one time in the

2443
02:29:26,120 --> 02:29:29,480
Speaker 1: past ten years, saving the city twenty dollars a day

2444
02:29:29,520 --> 02:29:33,080
Speaker 1: on the cost of feeding prisoners, and increasing dairy production

2445
02:29:33,360 --> 02:29:37,680
Speaker 1: by two hundred and fifty gallons a week unquote. It

2446
02:29:37,800 --> 02:29:40,280
Speaker 1: was seen as a win win win for the new

2447
02:29:40,320 --> 02:29:44,400
Speaker 1: property owners, city government, and police, but it was a

2448
02:29:44,480 --> 02:29:48,279
Speaker 1: huge loss for the most vulnerable citizens of the city

2449
02:29:48,440 --> 02:29:51,640
Speaker 1: and for the residents of the surrounding Decab County area

2450
02:29:51,879 --> 02:29:55,400
Speaker 1: who had no way of consenting to this deal, just

2451
02:29:55,480 --> 02:29:59,359
Speaker 1: like how modern day Decab County residents have no say whatsoever.

2452
02:29:59,760 --> 02:30:04,320
Speaker 1: And Atlanta's goals of building a militarized police training compound

2453
02:30:04,680 --> 02:30:08,920
Speaker 1: with a gun range and explosives testing section in what

2454
02:30:09,040 --> 02:30:13,440
Speaker 1: would formerly be there forested backyard, I mean building cups

2455
02:30:13,440 --> 02:30:16,360
Speaker 1: city here is just a continuation of the violence that

2456
02:30:16,400 --> 02:30:20,480
Speaker 1: has been done to this land since the earliest since

2457
02:30:20,600 --> 02:30:24,400
Speaker 1: time and memorial like this was. This was first of all,

2458
02:30:24,440 --> 02:30:28,120
Speaker 1: this was stolen Muskogee land. Then it was a plantation.

2459
02:30:29,000 --> 02:30:31,120
Speaker 1: Then it was a prison farm, which is just an

2460
02:30:31,120 --> 02:30:35,080
Speaker 1: extension of being a plantation. When it stopped being a

2461
02:30:35,120 --> 02:30:38,640
Speaker 1: prison farm and just started being mostly a prison, horrible

2462
02:30:38,680 --> 02:30:42,760
Speaker 1: horrible things were done to people and the solitary confinement cells.

2463
02:30:43,280 --> 02:30:46,760
Speaker 1: This mostly happened in the eighties. Then we the prison

2464
02:30:46,800 --> 02:30:50,560
Speaker 1: and the farming stopped. It just became a commercial dumping

2465
02:30:50,600 --> 02:30:55,040
Speaker 1: ground in an area of the city that already has

2466
02:30:55,680 --> 02:30:59,359
Speaker 1: some of the worst water quality and air quality standards

2467
02:30:59,720 --> 02:31:03,040
Speaker 1: and in the whole metro area. UM the South River

2468
02:31:03,120 --> 02:31:06,080
Speaker 1: Forest Coalition and the South River Watershed Alliance are the

2469
02:31:06,120 --> 02:31:10,800
Speaker 1: best sources for that. UM. But this was stolen land

2470
02:31:10,800 --> 02:31:12,920
Speaker 1: from the bee at the store. The start the story

2471
02:31:13,000 --> 02:31:17,560
Speaker 1: was stolen land. And then I guess the last historical

2472
02:31:17,600 --> 02:31:22,600
Speaker 1: record is social and environmental injustice. And now you want

2473
02:31:22,640 --> 02:31:26,560
Speaker 1: to give it to the police in this day and age,

2474
02:31:26,600 --> 02:31:29,920
Speaker 1: I guess you could say, like it's just compounding violence

2475
02:31:29,959 --> 02:31:35,520
Speaker 1: upon violence upon violence. Okay, now it's time for the

2476
02:31:35,640 --> 02:31:39,200
Speaker 1: update that I promised on the Week of Action that

2477
02:31:39,360 --> 02:31:44,480
Speaker 1: recently took place in Atlanta. So near the end of

2478
02:31:44,520 --> 02:31:49,680
Speaker 1: this past July from the there was another week of

2479
02:31:49,720 --> 02:31:52,000
Speaker 1: Action as a part of the movement to Defend the

2480
02:31:52,040 --> 02:31:56,480
Speaker 1: Atlanta Forest and Stop Cops City. Before things even kicked off,

2481
02:31:57,400 --> 02:32:01,520
Speaker 1: Ryan Millsap of Black Hole Movie students, just days before

2482
02:32:01,640 --> 02:32:05,760
Speaker 1: the July Week of Action put up concrete barricades around

2483
02:32:05,840 --> 02:32:09,360
Speaker 1: the section of forest that currently operates as a public

2484
02:32:09,440 --> 02:32:13,960
Speaker 1: park that protests had previously gathered in. He later made

2485
02:32:14,000 --> 02:32:18,680
Speaker 1: an appearance alongside some bulldozers in Entrenchment Creek Park where

2486
02:32:18,800 --> 02:32:25,760
Speaker 1: then said bulldozers seemingly accidentally question mark damaged a park gazebo.

2487
02:32:26,360 --> 02:32:29,680
Speaker 1: So great work, Ryan. We just wrapped up our week

2488
02:32:29,680 --> 02:32:33,560
Speaker 1: of action. Obviously, we did a whole bunch of really

2489
02:32:33,600 --> 02:32:38,120
Speaker 1: awesome events. UM writer's workshops, we had multiple music festivals,

2490
02:32:38,760 --> 02:32:42,240
Speaker 1: daily A meetings, medic trainings, we did an arcan training

2491
02:32:42,240 --> 02:32:47,439
Speaker 1: and distribution daily meals. I personally, UM had the fortune

2492
02:32:47,560 --> 02:32:53,520
Speaker 1: to attend to talk by John Lash who was incarcerated

2493
02:32:53,640 --> 02:32:57,000
Speaker 1: at what is now called Metro Reentry Center, but at

2494
02:32:57,000 --> 02:32:59,920
Speaker 1: the time was called Metro State Prison, which is just

2495
02:33:00,080 --> 02:33:02,800
Speaker 1: across the street UM from the south end of the

2496
02:33:03,000 --> 02:33:06,360
Speaker 1: child prison that's on the south end of the prison

2497
02:33:06,400 --> 02:33:09,720
Speaker 1: farm property. This was the most well attended week of

2498
02:33:09,760 --> 02:33:12,760
Speaker 1: action there has been so far, especially on the first

2499
02:33:12,760 --> 02:33:15,959
Speaker 1: Saturday with the first music festival, like as some as

2500
02:33:15,959 --> 02:33:20,080
Speaker 1: folks were leaving, like people not at all affiliated with

2501
02:33:20,160 --> 02:33:24,280
Speaker 1: the forest movement beforehand, or like heard about the music

2502
02:33:24,320 --> 02:33:27,200
Speaker 1: like the school music festival in the woods. They were

2503
02:33:27,240 --> 02:33:29,560
Speaker 1: brought in by the music festival. But then we were

2504
02:33:29,600 --> 02:33:32,360
Speaker 1: able to educate them on the fight to defend this

2505
02:33:32,440 --> 02:33:35,480
Speaker 1: forest in their neighborhood, which is like that is the goal.

2506
02:33:35,800 --> 02:33:41,000
Speaker 1: That was an amazing experience. There were three different instances

2507
02:33:41,160 --> 02:33:45,800
Speaker 1: of arrests during this most recent week of action. On

2508
02:33:45,920 --> 02:33:49,680
Speaker 1: July in Cobb County, on the north end of the

2509
02:33:49,720 --> 02:33:53,800
Speaker 1: Metro Atlanta area, four people were arrested at a noise

2510
02:33:53,879 --> 02:33:58,880
Speaker 1: demo outside of a contractor's residence. Police scanner audio has

2511
02:33:59,000 --> 02:34:03,040
Speaker 1: cops discussing charges for the people who were standing outside

2512
02:34:03,040 --> 02:34:07,920
Speaker 1: on public property to include criminal trespass and also discussed

2513
02:34:08,160 --> 02:34:12,199
Speaker 1: was quote with the eco terrorists happening in the county,

2514
02:34:12,640 --> 02:34:19,200
Speaker 1: possible domestic terrorist charges unquote, it will be criminal trespass,

2515
02:34:20,440 --> 02:34:23,520
Speaker 1: will be wrong with the eco terrorists and happened in

2516
02:34:23,560 --> 02:34:29,840
Speaker 1: the county. Domestic terrorism as well, wasn't possible domestic terrorism

2517
02:34:29,840 --> 02:34:36,720
Speaker 1: as well? It will be negative ontomestic terrorism. That last

2518
02:34:36,720 --> 02:34:41,640
Speaker 1: cop they're called a negative on domestic terrorism. This was

2519
02:34:41,680 --> 02:34:45,560
Speaker 1: not the first instance of law enforcement referring to defend

2520
02:34:45,560 --> 02:34:52,400
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Forest protesters as eco terrorists. On July six,

2521
02:34:52,440 --> 02:34:56,000
Speaker 1: people were arrested near the ruins of the old prison

2522
02:34:56,040 --> 02:35:00,800
Speaker 1: Farm for criminal trespassing, seemingly just for hanging out in

2523
02:35:00,840 --> 02:35:03,760
Speaker 1: the prison farm area, which has been a well known

2524
02:35:03,959 --> 02:35:08,520
Speaker 1: urban exploration hangout spot for decades. These people were just

2525
02:35:09,120 --> 02:35:12,720
Speaker 1: taken to jail for being there. In the bail hearing,

2526
02:35:12,800 --> 02:35:15,000
Speaker 1: the judge said that he didn't even know why they

2527
02:35:15,040 --> 02:35:18,600
Speaker 1: got arrested. They were soon released with signature bonds for

2528
02:35:18,720 --> 02:35:24,520
Speaker 1: all and then on Friday, July seven, people were arrested

2529
02:35:24,560 --> 02:35:27,160
Speaker 1: at a noise demo at a brass Field and Gory

2530
02:35:27,200 --> 02:35:31,560
Speaker 1: construction site. Currently Brassfield and Gory is the lead contractor

2531
02:35:31,680 --> 02:35:36,160
Speaker 1: for the Cops City project. The site was on Georgia

2532
02:35:36,160 --> 02:35:40,360
Speaker 1: State University property. The Atlantic Police Department responded as well.

2533
02:35:41,000 --> 02:35:44,200
Speaker 1: Unicorn riot footage shows people making a loop through the

2534
02:35:44,240 --> 02:35:48,800
Speaker 1: building and chanting before a construction worker aggressively shoves one

2535
02:35:48,840 --> 02:35:53,280
Speaker 1: protester out of the doorway. Here's some police scanner audio.

2536
02:35:54,080 --> 02:35:56,480
Speaker 1: Unit three they're saying that no one's in the building

2537
02:35:56,520 --> 02:35:59,840
Speaker 1: now protestor wise, but they were inside the building, so

2538
02:36:00,280 --> 02:36:03,720
Speaker 1: they all need to be I D and can you

2539
02:36:03,720 --> 02:36:10,840
Speaker 1: advise on a number by proximly fifty seven. But if

2540
02:36:10,879 --> 02:36:13,960
Speaker 1: you still got eyes on the people walking away, can

2541
02:36:14,000 --> 02:36:16,080
Speaker 1: you snap some pictures. I'm on the way up there

2542
02:36:16,120 --> 02:36:19,480
Speaker 1: in case they're calmed before mirror inside the building. So

2543
02:36:19,840 --> 02:36:22,400
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's ground for CTS. So we can

2544
02:36:22,400 --> 02:36:25,600
Speaker 1: stop just taking pictures you and the three. That's affirmative,

2545
02:36:25,640 --> 02:36:28,840
Speaker 1: but we can stop into hands Leaves, coffee, APT Homeland

2546
02:36:28,920 --> 02:36:31,160
Speaker 1: and Zone three is in a route to provide support

2547
02:36:31,200 --> 02:36:36,279
Speaker 1: of that location. Coming up on the location now. Atlanta

2548
02:36:36,320 --> 02:36:40,840
Speaker 1: Police stated that no property damage was done beyond a

2549
02:36:40,879 --> 02:36:45,400
Speaker 1: bucket being kicked, and yet seven people are facing a

2550
02:36:45,680 --> 02:36:50,280
Speaker 1: slate of felony charges. Yeah, major, says Homelands en route.

2551
02:36:50,320 --> 02:36:54,440
Speaker 1: So no property destruction, nobody assault, fit nothing that was

2552
02:36:54,480 --> 02:37:02,040
Speaker 1: the problem. They walked back in dead, thank you, sir.

2553
02:37:02,480 --> 02:37:06,360
Speaker 1: One person was hospitalized due to broken ribs sustained during

2554
02:37:06,400 --> 02:37:10,040
Speaker 1: their arrest. For the first nine hours after the arrests,

2555
02:37:10,240 --> 02:37:14,600
Speaker 1: police refused to give jail support the location or contact

2556
02:37:14,680 --> 02:37:18,800
Speaker 1: info for where the arrestees were being sent. The following

2557
02:37:19,040 --> 02:37:24,640
Speaker 1: Tuesday night, everyone was finally released on posted bond and

2558
02:37:24,840 --> 02:37:27,560
Speaker 1: with that that wraps up part one of the three

2559
02:37:27,640 --> 02:37:31,640
Speaker 1: part series for the history of the Old Atlanta Prison Farm.

2560
02:37:32,480 --> 02:37:34,800
Speaker 1: Before I close out, I do want to plug the

2561
02:37:35,000 --> 02:37:39,760
Speaker 1: Atlanta Solidarity Fund at a t L solidarity dot org

2562
02:37:40,360 --> 02:37:45,119
Speaker 1: that helps protesters with bail and legal stuff, So donate

2563
02:37:45,160 --> 02:37:49,080
Speaker 1: to that if you have the means. Also in the description,

2564
02:37:49,240 --> 02:37:52,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave that link. Also the link for

2565
02:37:52,879 --> 02:37:57,720
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Community Press history report that they published last year.

2566
02:37:58,280 --> 02:38:01,840
Speaker 1: That will also be in the description below. Thanks for listening.

2567
02:38:02,080 --> 02:38:05,439
Speaker 1: Check out Atlanta Community Press on Twitter or the website.

2568
02:38:06,120 --> 02:38:30,720
Speaker 1: See you on the other side. Welcome to it could

2569
02:38:30,800 --> 02:38:35,000
Speaker 1: happen here today. I'm your host, Garrison Davis, and this

2570
02:38:35,280 --> 02:38:38,480
Speaker 1: is part two of our three part series on the

2571
02:38:38,680 --> 02:38:42,680
Speaker 1: history of the Old Atlanta Prison Farm, made in collaboration

2572
02:38:43,040 --> 02:38:48,120
Speaker 1: with the Atlanta Community Press Collective. Last episode, I talked

2573
02:38:48,160 --> 02:38:51,920
Speaker 1: about how one of the initial motivations for running a

2574
02:38:52,040 --> 02:38:55,320
Speaker 1: city prison farm was to save money on the project

2575
02:38:55,440 --> 02:38:59,680
Speaker 1: of incarceration, or perhaps even starts generating money. This for

2576
02:38:59,840 --> 02:39:03,680
Speaker 1: me to the case throughout its existence, though exactly how

2577
02:39:03,840 --> 02:39:07,680
Speaker 1: well it performed at that was often questioned. Use of

2578
02:39:07,840 --> 02:39:11,360
Speaker 1: prison or slave labor for government projects was not a

2579
02:39:11,440 --> 02:39:14,560
Speaker 1: new concept in Atlanta, though. Around the time of its

2580
02:39:14,640 --> 02:39:18,320
Speaker 1: incorporation in the mid nineteenth century, the City of Atlanta's

2581
02:39:18,360 --> 02:39:24,440
Speaker 1: population was around one fifth enslaved persons. City Hall itself,

2582
02:39:24,720 --> 02:39:28,880
Speaker 1: along with many other iconic buildings and roads, was built

2583
02:39:29,080 --> 02:39:34,440
Speaker 1: using convict lease labor from the Chattahoochee Brickworks, notorious for

2584
02:39:34,600 --> 02:39:39,280
Speaker 1: its brutal conditions and was owned by a former Atlanta mayor.

2585
02:39:40,240 --> 02:39:44,520
Speaker 1: The City Prison Farm produced various crops, livestock, and dairy,

2586
02:39:45,080 --> 02:39:49,240
Speaker 1: but it also provided workers for other city projects. In

2587
02:39:49,360 --> 02:39:53,960
Speaker 1: nineteen forty six, Superintendent H. H. Gibson bragged that he

2588
02:39:54,280 --> 02:39:57,600
Speaker 1: was cutting the city prison food budget in half, as

2589
02:39:57,680 --> 02:40:01,480
Speaker 1: well as quote furnishing the city eleven thousand, nine hundred

2590
02:40:01,640 --> 02:40:05,520
Speaker 1: sixty one man days of work on city streets by

2591
02:40:05,640 --> 02:40:12,000
Speaker 1: prisoners unquote within a six month period. In nine they

2592
02:40:12,120 --> 02:40:16,280
Speaker 1: began saving further money on incarceration by getting the women

2593
02:40:16,360 --> 02:40:20,560
Speaker 1: prisoners to make the new uniforms, adding that quote, the

2594
02:40:20,680 --> 02:40:24,920
Speaker 1: city can buy better materials because the labor is free unquote.

2595
02:40:25,720 --> 02:40:30,560
Speaker 1: They attempted to incentivize overtime work by offering quote extra

2596
02:40:30,640 --> 02:40:35,120
Speaker 1: credit for each hour of overtime worked for reduced sentences.

2597
02:40:36,040 --> 02:40:39,720
Speaker 1: The prisoners were forced to build some of their own

2598
02:40:39,920 --> 02:40:45,080
Speaker 1: cages as well. Into one of the older prison buildings

2599
02:40:45,360 --> 02:40:48,400
Speaker 1: was designated for use as a hospital for people with

2600
02:40:48,520 --> 02:40:52,760
Speaker 1: maneial diseases. That meant that prisoners would need a new

2601
02:40:52,879 --> 02:40:57,120
Speaker 1: building and they had to build it themselves. Quote. Most

2602
02:40:57,200 --> 02:40:59,680
Speaker 1: of the work was done with prison labor, with the

2603
02:40:59,760 --> 02:41:04,560
Speaker 1: city providing the materials unquote. They were also responsible for

2604
02:41:04,760 --> 02:41:08,080
Speaker 1: the cleaning and maintenance of the buildings in order to

2605
02:41:08,240 --> 02:41:12,800
Speaker 1: pass health inspection. According to an Atlantic Constitution article, quote,

2606
02:41:13,040 --> 02:41:16,960
Speaker 1: the dormitory scrubbed daily by men and women whose drunkenness

2607
02:41:17,080 --> 02:41:20,920
Speaker 1: and traffic violations placed them behind a mop or tractor

2608
02:41:21,080 --> 02:41:25,520
Speaker 1: for an average fifteen day stay one four health rating.

2609
02:41:26,400 --> 02:41:30,600
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty eight. Prisoners were even made to rescue

2610
02:41:30,720 --> 02:41:34,840
Speaker 1: a guard's furniture from a fire. By the nineteen seventies,

2611
02:41:35,200 --> 02:41:38,760
Speaker 1: the farm provided more than half the food and dairy

2612
02:41:38,840 --> 02:41:43,840
Speaker 1: products for inmates in city detention centers. By the nineteen eighties,

2613
02:41:43,959 --> 02:41:47,320
Speaker 1: the prison firm had stopped growing crops, but still provided

2614
02:41:47,480 --> 02:41:51,199
Speaker 1: for of the pork and beef eaten by the prisoners,

2615
02:41:51,680 --> 02:41:56,680
Speaker 1: both at the farm and at the city jail. The

2616
02:41:56,760 --> 02:42:02,240
Speaker 1: work heavily subsidized city operations and was crinci are crucial. H. H. Gibson,

2617
02:42:02,400 --> 02:42:06,320
Speaker 1: the head of the prison farm, in said quote, idleness

2618
02:42:06,560 --> 02:42:10,320
Speaker 1: is the root of all evil in prison management. To

2619
02:42:10,440 --> 02:42:13,440
Speaker 1: be completely exempt from work, a prisoner should be minus

2620
02:42:13,680 --> 02:42:18,720
Speaker 1: both arms and both legs unquote. In the Courier Journal

2621
02:42:18,879 --> 02:42:23,000
Speaker 1: article where he makes those claims, the publication also accepts

2622
02:42:23,120 --> 02:42:26,800
Speaker 1: Gibson's claims that he quote took care to see the

2623
02:42:26,879 --> 02:42:30,840
Speaker 1: guards did not overwork prisoners, and that the guards are

2624
02:42:30,879 --> 02:42:35,200
Speaker 1: not permitted to strike or even curse prisoners unquote, and

2625
02:42:35,720 --> 02:42:39,360
Speaker 1: this would of course be later proven very much untrue.

2626
02:42:40,200 --> 02:42:43,160
Speaker 1: White guards were known to send black women to a

2627
02:42:43,280 --> 02:42:48,520
Speaker 1: less occupied area, supposedly to do extra work, but upon arrival,

2628
02:42:48,720 --> 02:42:53,080
Speaker 1: the prisoners would be raped by the guards. If they refused,

2629
02:42:53,440 --> 02:42:57,480
Speaker 1: they were quote given a hard way to go unquote.

2630
02:42:58,360 --> 02:43:01,800
Speaker 1: These same guards had the power to assign extra work

2631
02:43:01,920 --> 02:43:06,440
Speaker 1: to prisoners. This was supposed to have been fixed several

2632
02:43:06,600 --> 02:43:10,240
Speaker 1: years earlier with the hiring of a black woman guard,

2633
02:43:10,680 --> 02:43:14,480
Speaker 1: but according to the Pittsburgh Courier, she was quote only

2634
02:43:14,640 --> 02:43:18,439
Speaker 1: a matron in name. The white guards continued to supervise

2635
02:43:18,640 --> 02:43:23,640
Speaker 1: the colored women inmates unquote. The same statement details a

2636
02:43:23,800 --> 02:43:27,040
Speaker 1: beating with a broom handle. It claims that black women

2637
02:43:27,160 --> 02:43:30,160
Speaker 1: were forced to farm in the rain while white women

2638
02:43:30,240 --> 02:43:33,400
Speaker 1: were allowed to stay inside and read newspapers, and called

2639
02:43:33,480 --> 02:43:38,520
Speaker 1: for further investigations since the banning of the bucking chair

2640
02:43:38,800 --> 02:43:44,000
Speaker 1: used for whippings. Solitary confinement end quote. The whole unquote

2641
02:43:44,640 --> 02:43:48,680
Speaker 1: was the official punishment for not working at the standards

2642
02:43:48,840 --> 02:43:52,920
Speaker 1: set by the prison guards and wardens. We know little

2643
02:43:53,040 --> 02:43:57,200
Speaker 1: about the conditions of the whole in earlier years, but

2644
02:43:57,400 --> 02:44:01,800
Speaker 1: in nineteen five a new administ trader named Ralph Holsey

2645
02:44:02,200 --> 02:44:05,880
Speaker 1: took over operations of the prison farm. A skeething report

2646
02:44:06,040 --> 02:44:10,560
Speaker 1: from journalist Dick Herbert, who went undercover as a prisoner, alleged,

2647
02:44:11,040 --> 02:44:14,280
Speaker 1: among many other things, that the whole was quote where

2648
02:44:14,400 --> 02:44:19,920
Speaker 1: men were starved and degraded unquote. His report drew much

2649
02:44:20,040 --> 02:44:23,360
Speaker 1: negative attention to the conditions on the farm, the whole

2650
02:44:23,640 --> 02:44:27,160
Speaker 1: being one of them. At the time, Holsey said that

2651
02:44:27,320 --> 02:44:29,960
Speaker 1: he was quote not happy with it as it is,

2652
02:44:30,360 --> 02:44:34,560
Speaker 1: but it is necessary for discipline unquote. The whole was

2653
02:44:34,720 --> 02:44:38,600
Speaker 1: described as an eight foot by four foot windowless room

2654
02:44:39,080 --> 02:44:44,600
Speaker 1: where troublesome inmates are kept in solitary confinement. It's described

2655
02:44:44,640 --> 02:44:49,039
Speaker 1: as quote. Furnishings now include a pale and two buckets,

2656
02:44:49,520 --> 02:44:54,760
Speaker 1: no bed, no mattress or plumbing. Holsey allegedly planned to

2657
02:44:55,000 --> 02:44:58,840
Speaker 1: fit such cells with an iron lattice, bunk and toilet facilities,

2658
02:44:59,280 --> 02:45:00,760
Speaker 1: but we have no one to cation that this was

2659
02:45:00,879 --> 02:45:04,560
Speaker 1: ever followed through on, and the whole continued to be

2660
02:45:04,760 --> 02:45:09,600
Speaker 1: used regularly up until the mid eighties. Leadership of the

2661
02:45:09,680 --> 02:45:13,920
Speaker 1: prison Farm changed hands many times throughout its history, and

2662
02:45:14,080 --> 02:45:17,040
Speaker 1: at each passing of the torch there were claims of

2663
02:45:17,400 --> 02:45:22,000
Speaker 1: improvement the dawn of a new, better era, bleak and

2664
02:45:22,200 --> 02:45:27,000
Speaker 1: cruel conditions remained no matter who was in charge. Archival

2665
02:45:27,080 --> 02:45:30,280
Speaker 1: research shows that for over half a century, life on

2666
02:45:30,360 --> 02:45:36,000
Speaker 1: the farm was subject to hard labor, long days, harsh punishments, overcrowding,

2667
02:45:36,320 --> 02:45:42,160
Speaker 1: poor sanitation, and constantly lacking healthcare. J. D. Hudson, the

2668
02:45:42,240 --> 02:45:45,760
Speaker 1: superintendent of the prison farm in later years, who was

2669
02:45:45,840 --> 02:45:50,119
Speaker 1: hyped up by press as a sort of humanitarian reformer,

2670
02:45:50,800 --> 02:45:55,320
Speaker 1: described the previous conditions of the prison farm as slave labor.

2671
02:45:56,120 --> 02:45:59,520
Speaker 1: He bragged frequently of his intention to give prisoners quote

2672
02:45:59,800 --> 02:46:03,240
Speaker 1: a measure of self respect so they could lead decent

2673
02:46:03,360 --> 02:46:08,240
Speaker 1: lives again. Upon being instated he announced his intention to

2674
02:46:08,879 --> 02:46:13,080
Speaker 1: empty solitary confinement and forbid guards from hitting or abusing inmates,

2675
02:46:13,800 --> 02:46:17,440
Speaker 1: something which we must point out had been declared many

2676
02:46:17,560 --> 02:46:21,359
Speaker 1: times before already. He also made statements saying that inmates

2677
02:46:21,400 --> 02:46:25,040
Speaker 1: are quote written with guilt about their lives, and they

2678
02:46:25,200 --> 02:46:28,800
Speaker 1: want to be mistreated and abused, and they want to

2679
02:46:28,879 --> 02:46:33,720
Speaker 1: be denigrated as some sort of atonement for their sins unquote.

2680
02:46:34,440 --> 02:46:38,720
Speaker 1: So this might explain why the great Reformer himself was

2681
02:46:38,800 --> 02:46:41,520
Speaker 1: still in charge when the a c l U sued

2682
02:46:41,600 --> 02:46:45,480
Speaker 1: the city in two for conditions on the farm, citing

2683
02:46:45,600 --> 02:46:50,320
Speaker 1: quote illegal and unconstitutional punishments such as leg irons and

2684
02:46:50,520 --> 02:46:55,400
Speaker 1: excessive time in solitary confinement unquote, along with the long

2685
02:46:55,480 --> 02:47:00,360
Speaker 1: track record of unsanitary conditions. Mayor Andrew Young said of

2686
02:47:00,400 --> 02:47:03,640
Speaker 1: the suit, quote, it's simply a problem the city hasn't

2687
02:47:03,680 --> 02:47:07,640
Speaker 1: gotten around to handling yet unquote. At that point, the

2688
02:47:07,760 --> 02:47:12,640
Speaker 1: whole was still in use as solitary confinement and described

2689
02:47:12,760 --> 02:47:15,959
Speaker 1: as a room seven feet long by four ft wide

2690
02:47:16,080 --> 02:47:18,959
Speaker 1: that is virtually without heat in the winter and without

2691
02:47:19,120 --> 02:47:22,480
Speaker 1: cooling in the summer. Prisoners were held there twenty three

2692
02:47:22,560 --> 02:47:25,800
Speaker 1: hours a day, with an hour out for baths, often

2693
02:47:25,879 --> 02:47:29,240
Speaker 1: held for many days at a time. The suit was

2694
02:47:29,280 --> 02:47:33,560
Speaker 1: settled in nineteen eighty five with a forty dollar settlements

2695
02:47:33,600 --> 02:47:37,720
Speaker 1: split between three former prisoners, but the city never actually

2696
02:47:37,840 --> 02:47:42,439
Speaker 1: admitted guilt. Prison Farm staff were also ordered to avoid

2697
02:47:42,680 --> 02:47:46,560
Speaker 1: using isolation cells like the whole and told to build

2698
02:47:46,680 --> 02:47:50,400
Speaker 1: twenty new individual cells. The a c l U and

2699
02:47:50,520 --> 02:47:53,600
Speaker 1: those supporting the suit hoped that this lawsuit would push

2700
02:47:53,640 --> 02:47:57,160
Speaker 1: the city to make changes, but in nineteen eighty seven,

2701
02:47:57,280 --> 02:48:00,120
Speaker 1: just two years later, the city tried to build any

2702
02:48:00,160 --> 02:48:03,320
Speaker 1: more solitary confinement cells at the prison farm, and this

2703
02:48:03,480 --> 02:48:08,080
Speaker 1: project only fell through because white contractors they hired were

2704
02:48:08,120 --> 02:48:12,440
Speaker 1: caught taking job contracts slated for minority run businesses by

2705
02:48:12,600 --> 02:48:15,680
Speaker 1: using a front. And hopefully you don't need me to

2706
02:48:15,800 --> 02:48:19,000
Speaker 1: tell you that solitary confinement is still used as punishment

2707
02:48:19,120 --> 02:48:22,840
Speaker 1: in most prisons today. It's been ages. Something. I looked

2708
02:48:22,840 --> 02:48:27,000
Speaker 1: at this newspaper quotes document and just there's so much

2709
02:48:27,920 --> 02:48:31,400
Speaker 1: Atlanta may well take pride and the fact that it's

2710
02:48:31,440 --> 02:48:34,440
Speaker 1: city prison Farm has won such recognition as a model

2711
02:48:34,879 --> 02:48:39,000
Speaker 1: progressive institution that decided as a model in other metropolitan

2712
02:48:39,120 --> 02:48:43,680
Speaker 1: areas for municipal penal systems need improvement. I mean, that's

2713
02:48:43,720 --> 02:48:46,600
Speaker 1: the same thing they're trying to do with Cops City. Yeah,

2714
02:48:46,680 --> 02:48:50,720
Speaker 1: and this is this is from nine that that was

2715
02:48:50,760 --> 02:48:52,760
Speaker 1: one of the surprising things that that we found was

2716
02:48:52,840 --> 02:48:57,880
Speaker 1: that so many aspects of like specific fights that are

2717
02:48:57,920 --> 02:49:02,959
Speaker 1: being had about Cops City have happened fifty sixty years ago.

2718
02:49:03,120 --> 02:49:05,640
Speaker 1: Like they were trying to expand the prison harm I

2719
02:49:05,680 --> 02:49:08,560
Speaker 1: think eastward more into the Cab County in the forties,

2720
02:49:08,800 --> 02:49:11,240
Speaker 1: and that the Cab County residents were like, no, you

2721
02:49:11,360 --> 02:49:14,560
Speaker 1: can't do this to our county. But it was because

2722
02:49:14,640 --> 02:49:18,120
Speaker 1: they didn't want the black prisoners near the white elementary school.

2723
02:49:18,680 --> 02:49:23,039
Speaker 1: And like nine that was that like wasn't long after

2724
02:49:23,200 --> 02:49:29,080
Speaker 1: when they like formally disallowed whipping. Yeah, Like that's like

2725
02:49:29,560 --> 02:49:32,119
Speaker 1: it's there's still like obviously it's they're still doing brutal

2726
02:49:32,200 --> 02:49:34,880
Speaker 1: stuff in terms of like solitary and other forms of

2727
02:49:35,000 --> 02:49:39,200
Speaker 1: torture and rape, but like posing it as this like

2728
02:49:39,360 --> 02:49:42,400
Speaker 1: model facilities, like you just got in trouble like a

2729
02:49:42,520 --> 02:49:45,520
Speaker 1: few years previous for like whipping all of your prisoners,

2730
02:49:46,440 --> 02:49:49,800
Speaker 1: tying people down to a chair, like and then one

2731
02:49:49,840 --> 02:49:53,640
Speaker 1: of my favorites guards shoot two women prisoners while firing

2732
02:49:53,720 --> 02:49:56,800
Speaker 1: vainly at each other. I can't remember if we put

2733
02:49:56,840 --> 02:49:59,000
Speaker 1: that one in the article or not. But two prison

2734
02:49:59,080 --> 02:50:01,120
Speaker 1: guards were shooting at each other because they were I

2735
02:50:01,160 --> 02:50:04,560
Speaker 1: don't know, cranky or whatever and ended up just like

2736
02:50:04,680 --> 02:50:09,200
Speaker 1: shooting to prisoners. Since then, inside the report from last

2737
02:50:09,320 --> 02:50:10,880
Speaker 1: year on the history of the prison farm, there's like

2738
02:50:11,280 --> 02:50:15,000
Speaker 1: almost like a hundred citations and a whole bunch of

2739
02:50:15,040 --> 02:50:18,879
Speaker 1: background stuff. How once you kind have had this question

2740
02:50:18,959 --> 02:50:21,360
Speaker 1: of like is there unmarked graves at this site? How

2741
02:50:21,400 --> 02:50:23,920
Speaker 1: can we go about researching it? What were the kind

2742
02:50:23,920 --> 02:50:27,760
Speaker 1: of techniques and things you used to gather all of

2743
02:50:27,879 --> 02:50:31,360
Speaker 1: this information? Um, and then let alone, Like how do

2744
02:50:31,440 --> 02:50:33,800
Speaker 1: you start sorting through all that to pick out, you know,

2745
02:50:34,000 --> 02:50:36,520
Speaker 1: which which seems more incredible than others. You know, there's

2746
02:50:36,520 --> 02:50:39,160
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of conflicting history in

2747
02:50:39,440 --> 02:50:43,240
Speaker 1: in in some regards. So how what was like the

2748
02:50:43,320 --> 02:50:46,360
Speaker 1: whole entire research process, Like because looking at just the

2749
02:50:46,400 --> 02:50:52,320
Speaker 1: list of citations, it is a little overwhelming. Yes, it's

2750
02:50:52,520 --> 02:50:58,280
Speaker 1: very overwhelming. So our rather co author and Laura they

2751
02:50:58,400 --> 02:51:03,440
Speaker 1: did so much of the research, um, Like I have

2752
02:51:03,560 --> 02:51:06,080
Speaker 1: to give enormous prompts to them. Like they even made

2753
02:51:06,080 --> 02:51:10,600
Speaker 1: a couple of trips to things like the State Archives,

2754
02:51:10,640 --> 02:51:14,920
Speaker 1: which are slightly south of the city. I think kind

2755
02:51:14,959 --> 02:51:18,040
Speaker 1: of snuck into a university library because a lot of

2756
02:51:18,720 --> 02:51:23,879
Speaker 1: a lot of these, like in person resources were still

2757
02:51:23,920 --> 02:51:26,280
Speaker 1: closed at the time due to COVID restrictions. A lot

2758
02:51:26,360 --> 02:51:29,360
Speaker 1: of them aren't open now unfortunately. So like we have

2759
02:51:29,440 --> 02:51:35,240
Speaker 1: a huge document of just like newspaper quotes. A big

2760
02:51:35,400 --> 02:51:41,680
Speaker 1: big source for us were historical newspaper articles, mostly because

2761
02:51:41,920 --> 02:51:46,680
Speaker 1: because we initially started looking for official documents, um, this

2762
02:51:46,959 --> 02:51:50,240
Speaker 1: this is a pub this was a public entity. The

2763
02:51:50,360 --> 02:51:53,200
Speaker 1: city is required to keep records, um. And what we

2764
02:51:53,320 --> 02:51:57,160
Speaker 1: found was just a huge dearth of them. And most

2765
02:51:57,240 --> 02:52:01,280
Speaker 1: of the articles that are not articles but like official

2766
02:52:01,360 --> 02:52:05,000
Speaker 1: documents that are still around are housed in a really

2767
02:52:05,640 --> 02:52:11,320
Speaker 1: great collection at Georgia State University in downtown. But a

2768
02:52:11,400 --> 02:52:14,960
Speaker 1: lot of those things are they're just fairly limited, or

2769
02:52:15,040 --> 02:52:18,440
Speaker 1: if they're like year to year reports, it's like just

2770
02:52:18,600 --> 02:52:20,439
Speaker 1: one from the fifties, there is one from the sixties.

2771
02:52:20,520 --> 02:52:26,400
Speaker 1: There's no consistent documentation available. So then we went to

2772
02:52:26,480 --> 02:52:31,199
Speaker 1: public record, which is newspaper articles, and oh my god,

2773
02:52:31,480 --> 02:52:34,360
Speaker 1: there are so many newspaper articles about the prison farm.

2774
02:52:35,000 --> 02:52:38,120
Speaker 1: I never want to read a newspaper again. And we

2775
02:52:38,240 --> 02:52:41,400
Speaker 1: kind of used things that happened at the prison farm

2776
02:52:41,959 --> 02:52:45,440
Speaker 1: that we're noteworthy enough to make it into the newspaper too.

2777
02:52:47,320 --> 02:52:51,200
Speaker 1: I guess you could say guide what the biggest beats

2778
02:52:51,240 --> 02:52:54,240
Speaker 1: in the history of the prison farm work. And that

2779
02:52:54,440 --> 02:52:59,600
Speaker 1: kind of led us to what was something that we

2780
02:52:59,680 --> 02:53:04,120
Speaker 1: didn't know when we started our research, which was just

2781
02:53:04,400 --> 02:53:09,240
Speaker 1: how poorly or just how mangled the history of the

2782
02:53:09,280 --> 02:53:15,200
Speaker 1: prison farm has become. This land approximately nineteen seventy five,

2783
02:53:15,400 --> 02:53:18,720
Speaker 1: started becoming a police training academy, So there has been

2784
02:53:19,040 --> 02:53:24,000
Speaker 1: some sort of police training facility on this land since

2785
02:53:24,120 --> 02:53:30,360
Speaker 1: approximately nine There was even a slight version of a

2786
02:53:30,440 --> 02:53:34,440
Speaker 1: mock city in the eighties. They had an intersection that

2787
02:53:34,760 --> 02:53:40,560
Speaker 1: was for training for urban encounters, if you will. So

2788
02:53:40,959 --> 02:53:43,320
Speaker 1: this is the kind of information that we're digging to

2789
02:53:43,400 --> 02:53:47,000
Speaker 1: try to find the history. We're literally seeing legal notices

2790
02:53:47,400 --> 02:53:51,160
Speaker 1: in the newspaper, so advertisements, and this is how we're

2791
02:53:51,200 --> 02:53:56,840
Speaker 1: piecing this information together. When the pandemic hit for the

2792
02:53:56,879 --> 02:53:59,880
Speaker 1: first time in recent memory, there was a large scale

2793
02:54:00,040 --> 02:54:03,360
Speaker 1: public discussion on how the structure of the prison system

2794
02:54:03,600 --> 02:54:08,240
Speaker 1: is detrimental to the health of incarcerated persons. Public health

2795
02:54:08,320 --> 02:54:11,680
Speaker 1: experts advocated that the best way to limit the spread

2796
02:54:11,720 --> 02:54:15,000
Speaker 1: of disease is simply to have less people in prison.

2797
02:54:15,680 --> 02:54:19,280
Speaker 1: We'll talk more about COVID's impact on prison populations in

2798
02:54:19,360 --> 02:54:23,240
Speaker 1: a bit, but first let's note how overcrowding and lack

2799
02:54:23,360 --> 02:54:27,279
Speaker 1: of medical treatment in prisons leading to disastrous and deadly

2800
02:54:27,360 --> 02:54:32,240
Speaker 1: health outcomes is no new issue. When Dick Herbert went

2801
02:54:32,400 --> 02:54:36,000
Speaker 1: into the Atlanta prison Farm undercover for the Atlanta Journal

2802
02:54:36,080 --> 02:54:40,640
Speaker 1: Constitution in nineteen six, one of his main findings was

2803
02:54:40,760 --> 02:54:47,600
Speaker 1: quote non existent medical treatment. He reported quote tubercular, coughing,

2804
02:54:47,959 --> 02:54:53,000
Speaker 1: sickly men waiting to die, society's discards herded into an

2805
02:54:53,160 --> 02:54:57,119
Speaker 1: unwashed stock aide, only to be turned out again without

2806
02:54:57,320 --> 02:55:01,600
Speaker 1: even a smattering of help unquote. This was the case

2807
02:55:02,120 --> 02:55:05,039
Speaker 1: from the early days of the prison farm, and remained

2808
02:55:05,080 --> 02:55:08,920
Speaker 1: the case for long after. Already, by nineteen thirty eight,

2809
02:55:09,280 --> 02:55:13,160
Speaker 1: the prison farm was described by Mayor Hartsfield as an

2810
02:55:13,360 --> 02:55:18,200
Speaker 1: ungodly mess and was likely facing issues with communicable diseases,

2811
02:55:18,600 --> 02:55:22,199
Speaker 1: as evidenced by a call for quote separate hospital wards

2812
02:55:22,280 --> 02:55:26,520
Speaker 1: for diseased prisoners unquote. But it took city council until

2813
02:55:26,680 --> 02:55:30,400
Speaker 1: nineteen forty one to even quote study a proposal to

2814
02:55:30,520 --> 02:55:34,000
Speaker 1: equip the new building nearing completion for a five hundred

2815
02:55:34,040 --> 02:55:38,560
Speaker 1: bed emergency hospital unquote. The completed building was still not

2816
02:55:38,840 --> 02:55:42,280
Speaker 1: furnished by nineteen forty three, and in nineteen forty four,

2817
02:55:42,680 --> 02:55:45,199
Speaker 1: instead of making the new building into a health facility,

2818
02:55:45,680 --> 02:55:48,560
Speaker 1: they moved the prisoners into the new building and fitted

2819
02:55:48,600 --> 02:55:51,240
Speaker 1: the twenty year old prison building out to be a

2820
02:55:51,440 --> 02:55:55,800
Speaker 1: city detention hospital for treatment of those infected with venereal disease,

2821
02:55:56,920 --> 02:56:00,200
Speaker 1: and then, rather than be used as a hospital order

2822
02:56:00,240 --> 02:56:02,800
Speaker 1: for the prison farm, it was then used to treat

2823
02:56:02,840 --> 02:56:07,000
Speaker 1: a manerial disease bastions from throughout the city. This was

2824
02:56:07,080 --> 02:56:10,840
Speaker 1: expected to quote meat demand for years to come, but

2825
02:56:11,280 --> 02:56:14,600
Speaker 1: by ninety five there were already calls to close the

2826
02:56:14,800 --> 02:56:17,720
Speaker 1: entire prison farm and convert the whole thing into a

2827
02:56:17,800 --> 02:56:23,160
Speaker 1: veneerial disease quarantine clinic due to an increasing load. Obviously,

2828
02:56:23,320 --> 02:56:26,320
Speaker 1: those calls were never adopted, and the prison farm remained

2829
02:56:26,400 --> 02:56:31,200
Speaker 1: in operation in a grossly recursive mirror of the present.

2830
02:56:31,840 --> 02:56:35,400
Speaker 1: In an October one, nineteen fifty seven edition of the

2831
02:56:35,440 --> 02:56:41,320
Speaker 1: Atlantic Constitution, a quote Asian flew outbreak prompted the immediate

2832
02:56:41,400 --> 02:56:44,480
Speaker 1: release of quote any person who is ill and who

2833
02:56:44,520 --> 02:56:48,840
Speaker 1: has a home to return to unquote. Even this was qualified,

2834
02:56:48,920 --> 02:56:51,880
Speaker 1: though h H. Gibson, who was heading the prison at

2835
02:56:51,920 --> 02:56:54,440
Speaker 1: the time, said that only some of those who had

2836
02:56:54,520 --> 02:56:59,080
Speaker 1: been convicted of just light in fractions would be released.

2837
02:56:59,720 --> 02:57:02,360
Speaker 1: He also said that older men with a history of

2838
02:57:02,400 --> 02:57:05,600
Speaker 1: tuberculosis would be released due to the risk of their

2839
02:57:05,760 --> 02:57:10,080
Speaker 1: contracting pneumonia. Quoting Gibson, quote, none of the men who

2840
02:57:10,160 --> 02:57:13,359
Speaker 1: had temperatures of one hundred and one or more were released.

2841
02:57:13,920 --> 02:57:16,120
Speaker 1: Some of these older men have no places to go,

2842
02:57:16,640 --> 02:57:19,560
Speaker 1: and if we released them with a possible case of

2843
02:57:19,720 --> 02:57:22,880
Speaker 1: flu and higher temperature, chances are we would find them

2844
02:57:22,959 --> 02:57:26,480
Speaker 1: dead in the woods or somewhere a day later. Unquote.

2845
02:57:27,240 --> 02:57:29,959
Speaker 1: There was no mention of efforts to mitigate spread within

2846
02:57:30,040 --> 02:57:32,959
Speaker 1: the prison of Farm facility, and the fate of those

2847
02:57:33,040 --> 02:57:36,320
Speaker 1: who were forced to stay is unknown to us at

2848
02:57:36,400 --> 02:57:40,080
Speaker 1: the present moment. In December of nineteen fifty seven, the

2849
02:57:40,160 --> 02:57:44,080
Speaker 1: Decab County Grand Jury presented findings from an investigation that

2850
02:57:44,240 --> 02:57:48,480
Speaker 1: found that the prison farm was severely lacking in healthcare.

2851
02:57:49,120 --> 02:57:51,840
Speaker 1: They advised that a building should be provided so that

2852
02:57:51,920 --> 02:57:54,600
Speaker 1: prisoners who are ill can be held aside from the

2853
02:57:54,680 --> 02:57:58,280
Speaker 1: ones who are not sick, meaning that in the twenty

2854
02:57:58,360 --> 02:58:01,040
Speaker 1: years since this was first proposed, it had still not

2855
02:58:01,160 --> 02:58:05,000
Speaker 1: been implemented. They recommended that prisoners who were sick be

2856
02:58:05,120 --> 02:58:08,960
Speaker 1: given examinations and a record to be kept of those prisoners,

2857
02:58:09,320 --> 02:58:12,560
Speaker 1: and the prison farm should quote employ a proper nursing

2858
02:58:12,680 --> 02:58:17,360
Speaker 1: staff unquote. Their final recommendation was that quote some sort

2859
02:58:17,400 --> 02:58:19,920
Speaker 1: of sick quarters should be put into effects the prisoners

2860
02:58:20,000 --> 02:58:22,640
Speaker 1: who are ill can be held aside from the ones

2861
02:58:22,680 --> 02:58:27,240
Speaker 1: who are not sick unquote. The implication from these recommendations,

2862
02:58:27,360 --> 02:58:29,800
Speaker 1: of course, is that none of these practices were in

2863
02:58:29,840 --> 02:58:33,000
Speaker 1: placed at the time of investigation. A year later, in

2864
02:58:33,200 --> 02:58:37,240
Speaker 1: November of nineteen fifty eight, a second Decab grand jury

2865
02:58:37,600 --> 02:58:41,680
Speaker 1: quote found fault with its medical facilities, along with the

2866
02:58:41,879 --> 02:58:45,440
Speaker 1: lack of fire safeguards in the prison farm. Of course,

2867
02:58:45,600 --> 02:58:49,560
Speaker 1: thanks to Dick Herbert's undercover investigation for the Atlanta Journal Constitution,

2868
02:58:50,320 --> 02:58:53,320
Speaker 1: we now know that by nineteen sixty five, nearly ten

2869
02:58:53,440 --> 02:58:56,840
Speaker 1: years later, medical treatment was still found to be non

2870
02:58:56,920 --> 02:59:00,840
Speaker 1: existent at the prison farm, and by nineteen six a

2871
02:59:00,920 --> 02:59:04,680
Speaker 1: prisoner quote with a record of hospitalization for tuberculosis and

2872
02:59:04,800 --> 02:59:09,560
Speaker 1: heart trouble, collapsed and died unquote. Despite the order that

2873
02:59:09,760 --> 02:59:12,920
Speaker 1: medical records for sick patients be kept, there was no

2874
02:59:13,200 --> 02:59:16,800
Speaker 1: record on file that this patient had ever seen the doctor.

2875
02:59:18,000 --> 02:59:21,680
Speaker 1: Recorded sections from a meeting between the prison farm and

2876
02:59:21,800 --> 02:59:25,560
Speaker 1: the Department of Prisons indicate that they planned to hire

2877
02:59:25,920 --> 02:59:29,920
Speaker 1: a full time registered nurse in nineteen seventy two to

2878
02:59:30,040 --> 02:59:35,560
Speaker 1: assist the on site doctor. Other plans included tests for tuberculosis,

2879
02:59:36,040 --> 02:59:40,040
Speaker 1: PEP tests for female prisoners, and basic height, weight, and

2880
02:59:40,160 --> 02:59:43,760
Speaker 1: blood tests. They also indicated that they were not currently

2881
02:59:43,879 --> 02:59:48,760
Speaker 1: providing vision, hearing, or dental care. In Atlanta Voice article

2882
02:59:48,840 --> 02:59:52,160
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy three claims there are quote unquote new

2883
02:59:52,480 --> 02:59:56,280
Speaker 1: improvements in this area with the quote employment of a

2884
02:59:56,320 --> 03:00:01,840
Speaker 1: physician and two nurses, a detoxification program for alcoholics, health tests,

2885
03:00:02,240 --> 03:00:06,320
Speaker 1: and a humane approach to prisoner problems unquote, But by

2886
03:00:06,440 --> 03:00:10,279
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six we still see such things being raised

2887
03:00:10,440 --> 03:00:16,840
Speaker 1: as simply proposals. An interoffice communication at Grady Memorial Hospital

2888
03:00:17,280 --> 03:00:20,320
Speaker 1: states the need for quote a nurse clinician to be

2889
03:00:20,480 --> 03:00:24,440
Speaker 1: hired by Grady and paid by the state under contract

2890
03:00:24,560 --> 03:00:28,879
Speaker 1: to provide screening and triage services on site and referral

2891
03:00:29,200 --> 03:00:34,280
Speaker 1: when appropriate to Grady Hospital. One of them suggests entering

2892
03:00:34,400 --> 03:00:39,400
Speaker 1: this contract for reasons that it will generate one dollars

2893
03:00:39,480 --> 03:00:44,760
Speaker 1: in income and quote minimized public criticisms of inadequate healthcare

2894
03:00:44,879 --> 03:00:49,680
Speaker 1: for prisoners unquote. It also states that currently prisoners quote

2895
03:00:50,160 --> 03:00:56,200
Speaker 1: get only crisis oriented emergency care. A May nineteen seventy

2896
03:00:56,360 --> 03:01:00,880
Speaker 1: six Community Relations Commission report indicates that many of the

2897
03:01:01,000 --> 03:01:04,039
Speaker 1: health care issues are caused by the reluctance of guards

2898
03:01:04,160 --> 03:01:08,520
Speaker 1: to respond to prisoner complaints and quote brutality at Grady

2899
03:01:08,560 --> 03:01:14,080
Speaker 1: Hospital by Atlanta police officers unquote. Another proposal from Grady

2900
03:01:14,320 --> 03:01:17,800
Speaker 1: one month later suggests that rather than hiring a nurse

2901
03:01:17,879 --> 03:01:21,280
Speaker 1: specifically for the prison farm, they use a nurse from

2902
03:01:21,560 --> 03:01:25,560
Speaker 1: the Central Referral Office to act as a liaison with

2903
03:01:25,800 --> 03:01:29,720
Speaker 1: non clinical personnel at each of the eight detention centers

2904
03:01:29,800 --> 03:01:33,800
Speaker 1: in the city and give recommendations over the phone. They

2905
03:01:33,879 --> 03:01:36,600
Speaker 1: note that this would save the prison thousands of dollars

2906
03:01:36,640 --> 03:01:41,160
Speaker 1: a year. A nineteen seventies seven letter from Shirley Millwood,

2907
03:01:41,440 --> 03:01:46,000
Speaker 1: interset Grady Hospital, indicates that prisoners were still being transported

2908
03:01:46,040 --> 03:01:49,959
Speaker 1: to Grady for the administration of medication, and that even

2909
03:01:50,040 --> 03:01:53,480
Speaker 1: that was not often done. One of her patients was

2910
03:01:53,560 --> 03:01:56,240
Speaker 1: supposed to be brought in every day for medication, but

2911
03:01:56,440 --> 03:02:01,280
Speaker 1: Millwood claimed, quote the jail personnel have not lied the

2912
03:02:01,360 --> 03:02:04,600
Speaker 1: patient had been experiencing chest pain and shortness of breath

2913
03:02:04,879 --> 03:02:09,680
Speaker 1: all afternoon, but was not brought in until ten thirty pm. Quote.

2914
03:02:10,080 --> 03:02:12,440
Speaker 1: I feel that this is negligent on their part, and

2915
03:02:12,560 --> 03:02:16,400
Speaker 1: it is certainly detrimental to our patients. If something happens

2916
03:02:16,440 --> 03:02:18,920
Speaker 1: to this patient, will the jail be liable for the

2917
03:02:19,040 --> 03:02:22,680
Speaker 1: problems that result from him not being properly medicated? Unquote.

2918
03:02:23,560 --> 03:02:28,640
Speaker 1: In an undated document entitled Health Program City of Atlanta

2919
03:02:28,720 --> 03:02:32,880
Speaker 1: Prison Farm, tolled from the same archival collection as the

2920
03:02:32,959 --> 03:02:37,920
Speaker 1: other Grady Hospital records, does indicate that since nineteen seventy one,

2921
03:02:38,400 --> 03:02:41,440
Speaker 1: a doctor is on site five days a week for

2922
03:02:41,879 --> 03:02:45,760
Speaker 1: one hour each day, and a nurse is on duty

2923
03:02:45,840 --> 03:02:50,120
Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day. It states that wherever feasible,

2924
03:02:50,400 --> 03:02:53,560
Speaker 1: treatment should be done on the prison farm property, but

2925
03:02:53,680 --> 03:02:58,160
Speaker 1: lays out several procedures to follow for serious medical emergencies,

2926
03:02:58,400 --> 03:03:02,640
Speaker 1: usually involving transportation to Grady Hospital. However, it points out

2927
03:03:02,720 --> 03:03:07,960
Speaker 1: that quote unattended heart attacks, poison or suicide, overdose cases,

2928
03:03:08,160 --> 03:03:13,240
Speaker 1: and heroin withdrawal in jail frequently occur. The report also

2929
03:03:13,480 --> 03:03:17,240
Speaker 1: says that in the case of public intoxication, quote, minor

2930
03:03:17,360 --> 03:03:22,280
Speaker 1: medical skill and routine capacity in easing interpersonal tensions can

2931
03:03:22,360 --> 03:03:27,320
Speaker 1: reduce difficulty for arresting officers, reduce the arrests needed, and

2932
03:03:27,879 --> 03:03:33,280
Speaker 1: initiate more constructive rooting than directly to jail unquote. The

2933
03:03:33,360 --> 03:03:37,120
Speaker 1: report points out that in diabetic patients, their convulsions and

2934
03:03:37,440 --> 03:03:41,240
Speaker 1: the similar smell of their breath to acetone can lead

2935
03:03:41,320 --> 03:03:45,879
Speaker 1: to incorrect conclusions with permanent health effects. It also mentions

2936
03:03:45,959 --> 03:03:50,400
Speaker 1: that delirium treatment's condition associated with withdrawal of alcohol and

2937
03:03:50,480 --> 03:03:54,840
Speaker 1: other substances can quote endanger and inmates life and more

2938
03:03:54,920 --> 03:04:00,800
Speaker 1: than one has died unquote. Without proper healthcare, separation of

2939
03:04:00,959 --> 03:04:04,000
Speaker 1: sick and healthy prisoners, and in the midst of a

2940
03:04:04,200 --> 03:04:09,320
Speaker 1: decades long tuberculosis epidemic, overcrowding would certainly be a major

2941
03:04:09,440 --> 03:04:14,959
Speaker 1: contributing factor to sickness and death in prison scenarios. Archival

2942
03:04:15,080 --> 03:04:19,400
Speaker 1: research found that overcrowding was a recurring complaint throughout the

2943
03:04:19,600 --> 03:04:24,000
Speaker 1: over half century of the prison farm's existence, despite frequent

2944
03:04:24,080 --> 03:04:28,280
Speaker 1: expansions often motivated by the overcrowding in the first place.

2945
03:04:29,320 --> 03:04:32,560
Speaker 1: Overcrowding is a common occurrence in prisons and jails throughout

2946
03:04:32,640 --> 03:04:36,680
Speaker 1: the country. A longitudinal study by the Vera Institute of

2947
03:04:36,800 --> 03:04:41,480
Speaker 1: Justice found that quote as jail populations have exceeded capacity,

2948
03:04:41,879 --> 03:04:45,840
Speaker 1: county policy makers have turned to jail expansion rather than

2949
03:04:45,920 --> 03:04:50,440
Speaker 1: alternatives to incarceration. In some cases, decision makers also argue

2950
03:04:50,480 --> 03:04:54,480
Speaker 1: that replacing older facilities will provide safer living and working

2951
03:04:54,480 --> 03:04:59,160
Speaker 1: conditions for the increasing numbers of people in the jail unquote.

2952
03:04:59,720 --> 03:05:04,800
Speaker 1: How Ever, institute researchers note that quote. Larger jails built

2953
03:05:04,840 --> 03:05:10,160
Speaker 1: to accommodate an overcrowded population often see their populations continue

2954
03:05:10,240 --> 03:05:14,359
Speaker 1: to increase. This is because expansion alone fails to address

2955
03:05:14,400 --> 03:05:18,039
Speaker 1: the root causes of overcrowding, leaving in place the very

2956
03:05:18,160 --> 03:05:22,120
Speaker 1: policies and practices that drove the jail's population increase in

2957
03:05:22,240 --> 03:05:25,560
Speaker 1: the first place. Indeed, there is a risk that the

2958
03:05:25,640 --> 03:05:29,600
Speaker 1: existence of a larger jail with more beds may reduce

2959
03:05:29,720 --> 03:05:33,199
Speaker 1: the incentive to make policy changes that address the factors

2960
03:05:33,680 --> 03:05:39,359
Speaker 1: driving overcrowding, due to the temporary relief expansion provides unquote.

2961
03:05:39,840 --> 03:05:42,280
Speaker 1: This is precisely what we see play out here in

2962
03:05:42,480 --> 03:05:45,560
Speaker 1: the case of the old prison farm, and in fact,

2963
03:05:45,760 --> 03:05:50,480
Speaker 1: is still an ongoing issue in Atlanta area incarceration systems today.

2964
03:05:51,400 --> 03:05:54,560
Speaker 1: Since early on in the COVID nineteen pandemic, it's been

2965
03:05:54,600 --> 03:05:57,160
Speaker 1: made clear that the most effective way to mitigate the

2966
03:05:57,240 --> 03:06:01,360
Speaker 1: devastation of endemic COVID nineteen and pisons and jails is

2967
03:06:01,400 --> 03:06:04,920
Speaker 1: to reduce the number of people behind bars, and wow,

2968
03:06:05,080 --> 03:06:07,560
Speaker 1: perhaps that would be a good idea in general, not

2969
03:06:07,720 --> 03:06:12,280
Speaker 1: even related to this specific pandemic. The United States locks

2970
03:06:12,360 --> 03:06:15,039
Speaker 1: up a larger portion of its population than any other

2971
03:06:15,240 --> 03:06:18,160
Speaker 1: nation in the world, and just the state of Georgia

2972
03:06:18,480 --> 03:06:22,120
Speaker 1: has the fourth largest incarceration rate in the entire world

2973
03:06:22,240 --> 03:06:27,880
Speaker 1: if you compare individual US states to all other entire countries.

2974
03:06:28,879 --> 03:06:34,440
Speaker 1: Throughout only three states, New Jersey, California, and North Carolina

2975
03:06:35,000 --> 03:06:39,920
Speaker 1: released a significant number of incarcerating people from prisons. Parole

2976
03:06:39,959 --> 03:06:43,760
Speaker 1: boards also approved fewer releases in the first year of

2977
03:06:43,800 --> 03:06:47,760
Speaker 1: the pandemic compared to the year prior. The response of

2978
03:06:47,840 --> 03:06:52,200
Speaker 1: governments was so bad that in total, ten fewer people

2979
03:06:52,360 --> 03:06:58,560
Speaker 1: were released in prisons and jails compared to As a result,

2980
03:06:58,959 --> 03:07:01,199
Speaker 1: at the end of the first year of the pandemic,

2981
03:07:01,640 --> 03:07:06,080
Speaker 1: nineteen state prison systems were at nine capacity or higher.

2982
03:07:07,320 --> 03:07:11,120
Speaker 1: Incarcerated people are infected by the coronavirus at a rate

2983
03:07:11,440 --> 03:07:14,879
Speaker 1: more than five times higher than the nation's overall rate.

2984
03:07:15,360 --> 03:07:18,840
Speaker 1: According to research reported in the Journal of the American

2985
03:07:19,080 --> 03:07:24,200
Speaker 1: Medical Association from July of The reported death rate of

2986
03:07:24,360 --> 03:07:28,480
Speaker 1: inmates thirty nine deaths per one hundred thousand, is also

2987
03:07:28,600 --> 03:07:31,840
Speaker 1: much higher than the national rate of twenty nine deaths

2988
03:07:31,920 --> 03:07:36,880
Speaker 1: per one hundred thousand. As of April sixte more than

2989
03:07:36,959 --> 03:07:41,160
Speaker 1: six hundred and sixty one thousand incarcerated people and staff

2990
03:07:41,400 --> 03:07:45,480
Speaker 1: have been infected with coronavirus, and at least two thousand

2991
03:07:45,680 --> 03:07:48,960
Speaker 1: and nine hundred and ninety have died, according to The

2992
03:07:49,080 --> 03:07:52,840
Speaker 1: New York Times, and getting data more recent than that

2993
03:07:53,320 --> 03:07:58,879
Speaker 1: is actually almost impossible because many carstral agencies have simply

2994
03:07:59,040 --> 03:08:03,600
Speaker 1: stopped collecting and releasing information. The number of infections and

2995
03:08:03,760 --> 03:08:07,560
Speaker 1: deaths is likely even higher than the reported number. Because

2996
03:08:07,680 --> 03:08:12,039
Speaker 1: jails and prisons are conducting limited testing on incarcerated people.

2997
03:08:12,680 --> 03:08:17,320
Speaker 1: Many facilities won't test incarcerated people who die after showing

2998
03:08:17,360 --> 03:08:21,520
Speaker 1: symptoms of COVID nineteen. A lack of data reporting by

2999
03:08:21,560 --> 03:08:24,400
Speaker 1: carstral agencies has prevented the public from being able to

3000
03:08:24,560 --> 03:08:28,760
Speaker 1: understand the full impact of the pandemic on incarcetrated persons.

3001
03:08:29,600 --> 03:08:33,080
Speaker 1: Organizations like the u c l A Law COVID nineteen

3002
03:08:33,160 --> 03:08:37,040
Speaker 1: Behind Bars Project, the Martial Project, and the COVID Prison

3003
03:08:37,120 --> 03:08:40,720
Speaker 1: Project have been working to collect data and information as

3004
03:08:40,800 --> 03:08:44,280
Speaker 1: there's been a lack of transparency from agencies in providing

3005
03:08:44,360 --> 03:08:48,519
Speaker 1: adequate or correct data on the number of cases, safety protocols,

3006
03:08:48,879 --> 03:08:53,680
Speaker 1: and deaths within their jails and prisons. Many states Department

3007
03:08:53,760 --> 03:08:57,520
Speaker 1: of Corrections rolled back or stopped reporting their COVID nineteen

3008
03:08:57,600 --> 03:09:01,560
Speaker 1: data altogether in the summer of twenty twenty one, during

3009
03:09:01,800 --> 03:09:05,680
Speaker 1: the Delta variant surge and way before the openercron wave

3010
03:09:05,840 --> 03:09:10,000
Speaker 1: that hit last winter. For example, in Georgia, the Georgia

3011
03:09:10,040 --> 03:09:14,480
Speaker 1: Department of Corrections has not reported any new COVID deaths

3012
03:09:14,879 --> 03:09:21,840
Speaker 1: since March one, and last year halted all public reporting data.

3013
03:09:22,680 --> 03:09:26,040
Speaker 1: Among all the correctional systems in the United States, the

3014
03:09:26,120 --> 03:09:30,160
Speaker 1: Georgia Department of Corrections has the second highest case fatality

3015
03:09:30,280 --> 03:09:34,800
Speaker 1: rate or percentage of those people who have reported infections

3016
03:09:34,959 --> 03:09:39,120
Speaker 1: and later die. So this has been a problem in

3017
03:09:39,200 --> 03:09:42,800
Speaker 1: Georgia for a long time, whether that be with the

3018
03:09:43,000 --> 03:09:47,160
Speaker 1: old Atlanta prison farm or the current day jail's, prisons

3019
03:09:47,280 --> 03:09:51,040
Speaker 1: and penitentiaries. I'm going to close out this episode with

3020
03:09:51,240 --> 03:09:54,080
Speaker 1: this little tidbit from one of the conversations I had

3021
03:09:54,240 --> 03:09:58,000
Speaker 1: with members of the Atlanta Community Press Collective. I think

3022
03:09:58,320 --> 03:10:03,840
Speaker 1: just something that's continue waste not addressed. UM. I know

3023
03:10:03,920 --> 03:10:07,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people like to focus on positive things

3024
03:10:08,360 --> 03:10:13,320
Speaker 1: or more inspiring things. I guess as far as prison

3025
03:10:13,360 --> 03:10:16,840
Speaker 1: stuff goes, because I know I've had people repeatedly asked like, hey,

3026
03:10:17,160 --> 03:10:22,199
Speaker 1: were there strikes? Were their uprisings? Which is really inspirational.

3027
03:10:22,360 --> 03:10:28,280
Speaker 1: I agree, But there's also a really really sad history

3028
03:10:28,360 --> 03:10:30,600
Speaker 1: that a lot of people aren't addressing and how many

3029
03:10:30,680 --> 03:10:36,439
Speaker 1: people died by suicide here or attempted to die by suicide,

3030
03:10:36,520 --> 03:10:42,880
Speaker 1: and it's really sad that no one seems to care

3031
03:10:42,920 --> 03:10:48,560
Speaker 1: about that aspect that there were horrific atrocities. There were

3032
03:10:49,800 --> 03:10:54,600
Speaker 1: frequent rapes and beatings. There's a photo from the a

3033
03:10:54,720 --> 03:11:00,200
Speaker 1: j C That literally says black woman. I think it's

3034
03:11:00,240 --> 03:11:06,600
Speaker 1: like from the forties and they are moving around chemically

3035
03:11:07,640 --> 03:11:13,600
Speaker 1: infused sludge. It literally says sludge as fertilizer. We have

3036
03:11:14,000 --> 03:11:19,039
Speaker 1: proof of these atrocities, and people just like to focus

3037
03:11:19,160 --> 03:11:21,240
Speaker 1: on things of like, oh, hey, there was arsenic in

3038
03:11:21,280 --> 03:11:24,600
Speaker 1: a lake. I've never been able to find anything about that.

3039
03:11:24,800 --> 03:11:26,400
Speaker 1: I have no idea where that came from. I'm not

3040
03:11:26,480 --> 03:11:32,160
Speaker 1: saying it didn't happen, but there are so many concrete

3041
03:11:33,240 --> 03:11:38,080
Speaker 1: examples of horrific things that happened here. We don't need

3042
03:11:38,120 --> 03:11:41,880
Speaker 1: to make up stories. They exist and they're here. You

3043
03:11:42,040 --> 03:11:46,240
Speaker 1: just have to pay attention and read about it. There's

3044
03:11:46,360 --> 03:11:52,520
Speaker 1: literally a woman who attempted suicide six times because she

3045
03:11:52,920 --> 03:11:56,920
Speaker 1: hated being in the whole so bad. The isolated confinement

3046
03:11:56,959 --> 03:12:03,119
Speaker 1: self labeled the whole like six times aimes. And nobody

3047
03:12:03,680 --> 03:12:08,760
Speaker 1: addresses this kind of stuff, even as forest offenders like

3048
03:12:08,920 --> 03:12:13,879
Speaker 1: we owe it to ourselves to educate our community about

3049
03:12:14,920 --> 03:12:19,000
Speaker 1: exactly what happened here, even the worst of it, and

3050
03:12:19,080 --> 03:12:21,240
Speaker 1: then we'll go fucking raped in the woods because you've

3051
03:12:21,240 --> 03:12:24,560
Speaker 1: got to take care of yourself too. But even as

3052
03:12:24,640 --> 03:12:27,800
Speaker 1: we acknowledge this land, we need to know the history

3053
03:12:27,840 --> 03:12:31,320
Speaker 1: of it too. That doesn't for us. Today. In the

3054
03:12:31,400 --> 03:12:34,840
Speaker 1: next episode, will be going over the details of possible

3055
03:12:34,879 --> 03:12:38,840
Speaker 1: grave sites and how further research into the prison farm

3056
03:12:38,959 --> 03:12:42,640
Speaker 1: could be done, as well as more updates on the

3057
03:12:42,760 --> 03:12:46,560
Speaker 1: happenings in the Fight to Defend the Atlanta Forest. See

3058
03:12:46,600 --> 03:13:05,840
Speaker 1: you on the other side, Welcome this is it could

3059
03:13:05,879 --> 03:13:09,360
Speaker 1: happen here. The podcast about how it feels like everything

3060
03:13:09,480 --> 03:13:12,240
Speaker 1: is kind of falling apart and maybe what we can

3061
03:13:12,280 --> 03:13:16,160
Speaker 1: do to put stuff back together. I'm Garrison Davis, your

3062
03:13:16,320 --> 03:13:19,720
Speaker 1: host for this episode, and this is the third and

3063
03:13:19,920 --> 03:13:23,040
Speaker 1: final part of our mini series on the history of

3064
03:13:23,160 --> 03:13:27,240
Speaker 1: the old Atlanta prison Farm, produced in collaboration with the

3065
03:13:27,320 --> 03:13:31,960
Speaker 1: Atlanta Community Press Collective. We're actually going to start this

3066
03:13:32,040 --> 03:13:35,120
Speaker 1: episode with a little update on what's been going on

3067
03:13:35,400 --> 03:13:38,680
Speaker 1: in Atlanta as a part of the Defend the Atlanta

3068
03:13:38,760 --> 03:13:43,880
Speaker 1: Forest and Stop Cops City movement, considering the Atlanta Police

3069
03:13:43,879 --> 03:13:48,000
Speaker 1: Foundation's Cops City project is very much a direct continuation

3070
03:13:48,440 --> 03:13:52,240
Speaker 1: of the authoritarian and carcetral oppression of the prison farm

3071
03:13:52,560 --> 03:13:57,560
Speaker 1: that occupied the very same section of land. Here's an

3072
03:13:57,640 --> 03:14:01,200
Speaker 1: audio clip of one of my conversations with members of

3073
03:14:01,280 --> 03:14:05,600
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Community Press Collective from right before the recent

3074
03:14:05,840 --> 03:14:10,600
Speaker 1: July Week of Action, and this is about the status

3075
03:14:10,840 --> 03:14:15,560
Speaker 1: of construction on the South River or Willani Forest. So

3076
03:14:16,920 --> 03:14:20,520
Speaker 1: for the past month or so, it's kind of been

3077
03:14:20,560 --> 03:14:23,519
Speaker 1: a waiting game, Like if you refer to the construction

3078
03:14:23,600 --> 03:14:27,920
Speaker 1: timeline that whenever open records request revealed, like construction really

3079
03:14:27,920 --> 03:14:31,440
Speaker 1: should have started in earnest by now, like they last

3080
03:14:31,480 --> 03:14:36,600
Speaker 1: time I saw figure they want to have this open

3081
03:14:36,680 --> 03:14:40,400
Speaker 1: by fall of next year, and they are not on

3082
03:14:40,560 --> 03:14:44,480
Speaker 1: that timeline. And that's not all necessarily due to the movement.

3083
03:14:45,920 --> 03:14:51,320
Speaker 1: So I think between UM just the general supply train

3084
03:14:51,400 --> 03:14:54,640
Speaker 1: havoc that's happening across different industries right now, definitely the

3085
03:14:54,680 --> 03:15:00,280
Speaker 1: construction industry. I think UM they did men and this

3086
03:15:00,520 --> 03:15:04,720
Speaker 1: during one of the recent UM Community Stakeholders Committee meetings

3087
03:15:04,760 --> 03:15:06,280
Speaker 1: where they're like, oh, yeah, by the way, we are

3088
03:15:06,360 --> 03:15:10,480
Speaker 1: kind of having sub supply chain issues. In addition to

3089
03:15:11,480 --> 03:15:14,359
Speaker 1: I don't think a p D and the Police Foundation

3090
03:15:14,440 --> 03:15:18,480
Speaker 1: really expected to have any kind of continued resistance on

3091
03:15:18,600 --> 03:15:24,840
Speaker 1: the ground UM or any kind of continued public bad press.

3092
03:15:24,959 --> 03:15:28,000
Speaker 1: I don't think they think they thought they passed the

3093
03:15:28,080 --> 03:15:30,560
Speaker 1: legislation on the public would kind of move on UM,

3094
03:15:30,840 --> 03:15:35,680
Speaker 1: because that's frankly what he usually happens when people, when

3095
03:15:35,720 --> 03:15:39,080
Speaker 1: people when movements that criticize the police happen, they usually

3096
03:15:39,120 --> 03:15:43,760
Speaker 1: get repressed or people's attention turns turns to other things

3097
03:15:43,800 --> 03:15:48,920
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. We know that they have a permit for

3098
03:15:49,560 --> 03:15:52,400
Speaker 1: It's what exactly is it is a permit for. It

3099
03:15:52,480 --> 03:15:55,720
Speaker 1: is kind of complicated, but one way or another, it

3100
03:15:56,680 --> 03:16:01,840
Speaker 1: enables the Police Foundation, there contractors and our vendors to

3101
03:16:03,320 --> 03:16:07,360
Speaker 1: construct a basically like a temporary construction fence like you

3102
03:16:07,400 --> 03:16:11,360
Speaker 1: would see around a construction site. But in that permit

3103
03:16:11,440 --> 03:16:15,400
Speaker 1: I believe expires in August of this year, because that's

3104
03:16:15,400 --> 03:16:18,880
Speaker 1: a temporary permit, but that fence does not seem to

3105
03:16:18,920 --> 03:16:22,640
Speaker 1: have gone up, so it's it's kind of a stalemate

3106
03:16:22,800 --> 03:16:27,200
Speaker 1: right now. Just five days after the July week of

3107
03:16:27,360 --> 03:16:32,879
Speaker 1: action wrapped on early Wednesday morning on August three, dozens

3108
03:16:33,040 --> 03:16:37,360
Speaker 1: of work vehicles and police amassed around the forest, staging

3109
03:16:37,400 --> 03:16:42,680
Speaker 1: heavy machinery, setting up roadblocks, and started dismantling barricades in

3110
03:16:42,800 --> 03:16:46,960
Speaker 1: the forest. Sounds of tree cutting could be heard near

3111
03:16:47,080 --> 03:16:51,160
Speaker 1: the occupied to stop Cops City tree sets. Police were

3112
03:16:51,280 --> 03:16:55,959
Speaker 1: initially stalled by the burning of tire barricades near roads,

3113
03:16:56,680 --> 03:17:00,840
Speaker 1: but around seven am, heavy machinery bree to the proposed

3114
03:17:00,920 --> 03:17:04,240
Speaker 1: site for Cops City and entered on the north side

3115
03:17:04,320 --> 03:17:09,400
Speaker 1: of the forest. Excavators cleared barricades and trees were felled

3116
03:17:09,560 --> 03:17:14,320
Speaker 1: near trails, making wider paths into the forest. De Cab

3117
03:17:14,440 --> 03:17:18,560
Speaker 1: County Police officers accompanied gas pipeline workers who were on

3118
03:17:18,640 --> 03:17:23,800
Speaker 1: the ground adjacent to Entrenchment Creek Park. One arrest was reported.

3119
03:17:24,240 --> 03:17:27,640
Speaker 1: The arrestee was originally being taken straight to jail and

3120
03:17:27,720 --> 03:17:31,960
Speaker 1: then got diverted to police headquarters for questioning, and it

3121
03:17:32,120 --> 03:17:36,440
Speaker 1: was confirmed that FBI was also on the scene. There

3122
03:17:36,560 --> 03:17:40,120
Speaker 1: were no attempts at extraction of tree sitters and no

3123
03:17:40,240 --> 03:17:45,240
Speaker 1: additional arrests reported. That day, the Atlanta Police Foundations contract

3124
03:17:45,320 --> 03:17:48,880
Speaker 1: workers did substantial forest clearing in an area of the

3125
03:17:48,959 --> 03:17:53,600
Speaker 1: woods near the entrance gate on Key Road, directly adjacent

3126
03:17:53,720 --> 03:17:57,959
Speaker 1: to the existing power line clearing. Much of the surrounding

3127
03:17:57,959 --> 03:18:01,200
Speaker 1: neighborhood was blocked off by the Atlantic Department for most

3128
03:18:01,280 --> 03:18:04,240
Speaker 1: of the day, with no warning given to local residents,

3129
03:18:04,760 --> 03:18:09,240
Speaker 1: many of whom have stopped cops city yard signs. The

3130
03:18:09,320 --> 03:18:12,720
Speaker 1: work being done along the power line cut is assumed

3131
03:18:12,800 --> 03:18:17,920
Speaker 1: to be either for installing sewer lines and or drilling holes.

3132
03:18:18,879 --> 03:18:22,200
Speaker 1: The presence of Georgia Power suggests that they could have

3133
03:18:22,240 --> 03:18:25,960
Speaker 1: been trying to bore holes to install power lines. The

3134
03:18:26,040 --> 03:18:29,280
Speaker 1: next morning, around twenty cops, some mounted on a t

3135
03:18:29,440 --> 03:18:33,960
Speaker 1: v S, patrolled throughout the forest, possibly looking for rebuilt

3136
03:18:34,000 --> 03:18:37,520
Speaker 1: barricades or to snatch up anyone they found in the area.

3137
03:18:38,680 --> 03:18:41,400
Speaker 1: Ever since then, there's been cops, sometimes on a t

3138
03:18:41,520 --> 03:18:44,440
Speaker 1: v S, spotted multiple times a week in the forest,

3139
03:18:44,800 --> 03:18:49,800
Speaker 1: usually during early in the morning. How much grounds clearing

3140
03:18:50,000 --> 03:18:53,160
Speaker 1: and pre construction work was done recently in the forest

3141
03:18:53,920 --> 03:18:58,560
Speaker 1: was slightly surprising considering the land disturbance permit has not

3142
03:18:58,760 --> 03:19:01,840
Speaker 1: yet been issued, though it is possible that the recent

3143
03:19:01,920 --> 03:19:06,320
Speaker 1: work was covered by existing utility easements or the temporary

3144
03:19:06,400 --> 03:19:09,960
Speaker 1: construction permit that expires later this month that was mainly

3145
03:19:10,080 --> 03:19:13,480
Speaker 1: issued around the goal of putting up a security offense

3146
03:19:13,600 --> 03:19:17,120
Speaker 1: around the forest. And with that now, let's get back

3147
03:19:17,200 --> 03:19:22,080
Speaker 1: to the history of the prison farm. As discussed last episode,

3148
03:19:22,520 --> 03:19:26,120
Speaker 1: overcrowding was one of the initial motivations for proposing to

3149
03:19:26,320 --> 03:19:30,000
Speaker 1: move the Glenwood Stockade prisoners to the dairy Farm site,

3150
03:19:30,640 --> 03:19:34,760
Speaker 1: though it was not the final decisive factor because at

3151
03:19:34,800 --> 03:19:39,440
Speaker 1: the time populations there were dwindling. Several years later, though,

3152
03:19:39,879 --> 03:19:44,440
Speaker 1: Councilman chose Wood was being praised for increasing the incarcerated

3153
03:19:44,480 --> 03:19:49,160
Speaker 1: population because it brought in more revenue, and several years

3154
03:19:49,280 --> 03:19:54,360
Speaker 1: after that, in overcrowding at the second stockade on Decatur

3155
03:19:54,520 --> 03:19:58,800
Speaker 1: and Hillard prompted discussions on expanding the prison farm by

3156
03:19:58,879 --> 03:20:02,800
Speaker 1: bringing in portable buildings from the school board and expanding

3157
03:20:02,879 --> 03:20:06,800
Speaker 1: the woman's prison by one hundred feet. A police report

3158
03:20:06,920 --> 03:20:10,360
Speaker 1: from nineteen thirty six says, quote, we find that all

3159
03:20:10,480 --> 03:20:15,440
Speaker 1: prisoners have separate quarters which are in sanitary condition but overcrowded.

3160
03:20:15,959 --> 03:20:19,320
Speaker 1: We recommend that another unit be constructed for white female

3161
03:20:19,360 --> 03:20:24,040
Speaker 1: prisoners as well as white male prisoners unquote, And by

3162
03:20:24,120 --> 03:20:27,720
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, a new wing was completed housing seventy

3163
03:20:27,760 --> 03:20:31,199
Speaker 1: five more prisoners, and another edition of the same size

3164
03:20:31,320 --> 03:20:34,280
Speaker 1: was expected to be added to the main building, but

3165
03:20:34,560 --> 03:20:38,320
Speaker 1: only five months later, the prison farm's own superintendent again

3166
03:20:38,440 --> 03:20:42,800
Speaker 1: described the conditions there as overcrowded and recommended another expansion

3167
03:20:42,959 --> 03:20:47,760
Speaker 1: and separate ward for quote unquote diseased prisoners. In nineteen

3168
03:20:47,800 --> 03:20:50,480
Speaker 1: thirty nine, a proposal to extend the land by one

3169
03:20:50,560 --> 03:20:54,680
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty four acres was protested by Decab residents

3170
03:20:55,000 --> 03:20:57,400
Speaker 1: on the basis that it was directly next to a

3171
03:20:57,600 --> 03:21:01,080
Speaker 1: white school and that quote for their development of penal

3172
03:21:01,120 --> 03:21:04,840
Speaker 1: institutions in net section would destroy the value of surrounding

3173
03:21:04,920 --> 03:21:09,000
Speaker 1: property and preclude the development of a civic center which

3174
03:21:09,080 --> 03:21:14,040
Speaker 1: citizens seek near the west side school grounds unquote. The

3175
03:21:14,160 --> 03:21:18,560
Speaker 1: plan was abandoned, but later brought up with a compromise

3176
03:21:19,000 --> 03:21:21,760
Speaker 1: in that they would instead only take a hundred and

3177
03:21:21,879 --> 03:21:26,120
Speaker 1: thirty four acres, leaving a fifty acre buffer between the

3178
03:21:26,240 --> 03:21:30,080
Speaker 1: prison farm and the school. In four, a new building,

3179
03:21:30,160 --> 03:21:33,040
Speaker 1: originally slated to be a medical ward, was built, and

3180
03:21:33,160 --> 03:21:35,920
Speaker 1: as we saw in the healthcare section, this ended up

3181
03:21:36,000 --> 03:21:39,720
Speaker 1: becoming a new prison building, and the old building became

3182
03:21:39,800 --> 03:21:44,040
Speaker 1: the Maneial Disease Hospital. The new building could quote house

3183
03:21:44,320 --> 03:21:48,360
Speaker 1: seven and twenty five prisoners without crowding them unquote, and

3184
03:21:48,640 --> 03:21:51,760
Speaker 1: was said to be able to quote eliminate long standing

3185
03:21:51,800 --> 03:21:55,400
Speaker 1: criticism of nearby residents because of escapes from the old

3186
03:21:55,560 --> 03:22:00,560
Speaker 1: overcrowded and ill arranged structure unquote. In nineteen forty six,

3187
03:22:00,680 --> 03:22:03,879
Speaker 1: the city took possession of an additional eighty nine acres

3188
03:22:04,000 --> 03:22:07,640
Speaker 1: of land for the prison farm, but still overcrowding was

3189
03:22:07,840 --> 03:22:11,760
Speaker 1: again raised as an issue in nineteen fifty two, but

3190
03:22:11,879 --> 03:22:15,240
Speaker 1: this time certain sentences were reduced from twenty days to

3191
03:22:15,440 --> 03:22:19,440
Speaker 1: ten days to address this problem, constituting the first time

3192
03:22:19,560 --> 03:22:24,760
Speaker 1: a slightly decarce oral approach was used. But despite this

3193
03:22:25,120 --> 03:22:28,360
Speaker 1: and yet another new wing being built in nineteen fifty eight,

3194
03:22:28,760 --> 03:22:31,760
Speaker 1: a grand jury in nineteen sixty found that the prison

3195
03:22:31,840 --> 03:22:37,080
Speaker 1: farm was quote unquote exceedingly overcrowded and quote as a result,

3196
03:22:37,360 --> 03:22:42,560
Speaker 1: the health of prisoners is jeopardized unquote. They suggested building

3197
03:22:42,600 --> 03:22:47,080
Speaker 1: a quote unquote work camp to alleviate crowding. Dick Herbert's

3198
03:22:47,200 --> 03:22:51,480
Speaker 1: undercover investigation in nineteen sixty five found that men were

3199
03:22:51,560 --> 03:22:55,280
Speaker 1: sleeping on the floor and tables because there was still

3200
03:22:55,400 --> 03:22:59,640
Speaker 1: not enough beds. A quote from Herbert says, so closely

3201
03:22:59,720 --> 03:23:02,360
Speaker 1: pass act are the three hundred bunks that they are

3202
03:23:02,400 --> 03:23:07,279
Speaker 1: alternated head to foot. In nineteen sixty seven, Atlanta started

3203
03:23:07,440 --> 03:23:11,760
Speaker 1: talking about chronic alcoholism as a health problem rather than

3204
03:23:11,920 --> 03:23:16,200
Speaker 1: one of criminality. However, the assumption was that this was

3205
03:23:16,360 --> 03:23:20,400
Speaker 1: still to be treated by those in charge of the prisons. Quote.

3206
03:23:20,680 --> 03:23:23,920
Speaker 1: The prison is already crowded up against its six hundred

3207
03:23:24,000 --> 03:23:28,720
Speaker 1: person capacity, said the Atlanta Journal Constitution. But according to

3208
03:23:28,800 --> 03:23:33,640
Speaker 1: Superintendent Holsey, the conversion to a rehabilitation center would mean

3209
03:23:33,840 --> 03:23:38,879
Speaker 1: longer stays and thus higher populations, stating quote, they likely

3210
03:23:39,040 --> 03:23:42,920
Speaker 1: will have to build a whole new city prison farm unquote.

3211
03:23:44,400 --> 03:23:48,519
Speaker 1: A nineteen seventy six article from the Atlanta Journal Constitution

3212
03:23:48,720 --> 03:23:52,279
Speaker 1: says that in nineteen seventy a thousand prisoners were packed

3213
03:23:52,360 --> 03:23:56,119
Speaker 1: in the old building. Inmates slept in rickety beds. Three

3214
03:23:56,360 --> 03:24:01,280
Speaker 1: high health inspectors and judges cut the population for humanity's sake.

3215
03:24:02,160 --> 03:24:04,920
Speaker 1: It further claimed that the facility was now quote well

3216
03:24:05,040 --> 03:24:09,560
Speaker 1: below its comfortable capacity of four hundred prisoners unquote. In

3217
03:24:09,720 --> 03:24:14,400
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, the Uniform Alcohol Treatment Act was passed,

3218
03:24:14,600 --> 03:24:20,400
Speaker 1: although never fully funded, which effectively decriminalized alcoholism. This act

3219
03:24:20,520 --> 03:24:23,400
Speaker 1: was said to reduce the population of the prison farm

3220
03:24:23,520 --> 03:24:26,600
Speaker 1: from five hundred in nineteen seventy two to two hundred

3221
03:24:26,680 --> 03:24:30,959
Speaker 1: and nine eighty three, although new laws were passed further

3222
03:24:31,040 --> 03:24:35,480
Speaker 1: criminalizing certain actions while intoxicated at the behest of the

3223
03:24:35,520 --> 03:24:40,480
Speaker 1: business community who quote demanded drunks and winos be removed

3224
03:24:40,600 --> 03:24:44,720
Speaker 1: from the streets unquote. This era marks the last time

3225
03:24:44,840 --> 03:24:50,800
Speaker 1: the Atlantic community press research found complaints of overcrowding. The

3226
03:24:50,920 --> 03:24:54,880
Speaker 1: lack of further complaints strongly suggests that decriminalization is a

3227
03:24:55,000 --> 03:24:59,040
Speaker 1: better answer to the problem of overcrowding rather than prison expansion.

3228
03:24:59,800 --> 03:25:03,360
Speaker 1: It also necessary to mention that alleviating the problem fifty

3229
03:25:03,440 --> 03:25:06,520
Speaker 1: years into the project does not make up for the

3230
03:25:06,600 --> 03:25:10,640
Speaker 1: unnecessary harm and death likely caused by these conditions over

3231
03:25:10,680 --> 03:25:14,600
Speaker 1: the years. As we went over last episode, overcrowding of

3232
03:25:14,680 --> 03:25:18,800
Speaker 1: jail's remains a problem in our modern jails and prisons. Currently,

3233
03:25:18,920 --> 03:25:22,560
Speaker 1: the Fulton County Sheriff wants the Atlanta City government to

3234
03:25:22,840 --> 03:25:26,560
Speaker 1: abandon their promise of closing a city jail and instead

3235
03:25:26,879 --> 03:25:30,680
Speaker 1: rent the jail to Fulton County to alleviate overcrowding in

3236
03:25:30,840 --> 03:25:35,280
Speaker 1: their system. This is billed as a humanitarian move, but

3237
03:25:35,520 --> 03:25:39,439
Speaker 1: as we've discussed in the past few episodes, history suggests otherwise,

3238
03:25:40,120 --> 03:25:44,480
Speaker 1: and the most successful way at reducing harm was decarcet

3239
03:25:44,640 --> 03:25:50,680
Speaker 1: role approaches. Complaints about poor sanitation and malnutrition also span

3240
03:25:50,879 --> 03:25:55,400
Speaker 1: the prison farm's history. Combined with the previously detailed conditions,

3241
03:25:55,800 --> 03:25:58,680
Speaker 1: these would further increase the likelihood of sickness and death

3242
03:25:58,840 --> 03:26:03,400
Speaker 1: within the prison. For arm walls, prisoners eight complained that

3243
03:26:03,520 --> 03:26:07,120
Speaker 1: quote a silver dollar would cover each particle of food

3244
03:26:07,320 --> 03:26:11,400
Speaker 1: given to prisoners and asked for quote more vegetables and

3245
03:26:11,600 --> 03:26:16,119
Speaker 1: less sorghum unquote. In ninety one, during a tense meeting

3246
03:26:16,200 --> 03:26:20,080
Speaker 1: in which Decab tried unsuccessfully to prevent Atlanta from expanding

3247
03:26:20,120 --> 03:26:23,680
Speaker 1: the prison farm, a DECAB resident said that the farm

3248
03:26:23,840 --> 03:26:29,359
Speaker 1: was without sanitary facilities, despite frequent assurances that the facility

3249
03:26:29,600 --> 03:26:34,160
Speaker 1: was clean. However, work was temporarily abandoned on that expansion

3250
03:26:34,320 --> 03:26:38,080
Speaker 1: after Decab County citizens sought and obtained an injunction against

3251
03:26:38,120 --> 03:26:42,600
Speaker 1: the City of Atlanta for dumping untreated sewage into entrenchment creek.

3252
03:26:44,000 --> 03:26:47,920
Speaker 1: There is a large gap in reporting on these particular conditions,

3253
03:26:48,400 --> 03:26:52,199
Speaker 1: but there's evidence that they persisted, because in nineteen sixty,

3254
03:26:52,520 --> 03:26:56,720
Speaker 1: the Decab Ground jury found that quote, restrooms were deplorable

3255
03:26:56,879 --> 03:27:00,520
Speaker 1: in both white and negro wards unquote, and that the

3256
03:27:00,600 --> 03:27:03,960
Speaker 1: kitchen floor was quote unquote in a deplorable state and

3257
03:27:04,080 --> 03:27:10,480
Speaker 1: should be replaced. The Atlanta Journal Constitution's own inspection curiously

3258
03:27:10,560 --> 03:27:14,800
Speaker 1: concluded that the farm was quote operated very efficiently and

3259
03:27:15,080 --> 03:27:20,080
Speaker 1: with good sanitary conditions unquote, But just two years later,

3260
03:27:20,440 --> 03:27:24,840
Speaker 1: Dick Herbert's undercover work as a prisoner showed quite the contrary.

3261
03:27:25,400 --> 03:27:30,039
Speaker 1: He found puddles of spit at drainage grills, wondered if

3262
03:27:30,160 --> 03:27:33,080
Speaker 1: many of the men had tuberculosis, and said that quote

3263
03:27:33,440 --> 03:27:36,560
Speaker 1: it was not uncommon to find dead bugs or hair

3264
03:27:36,840 --> 03:27:40,560
Speaker 1: in food. The rusty, dirty tins we drank out of

3265
03:27:40,720 --> 03:27:45,520
Speaker 1: should be replaced unquote. Herbert also mentioned that quote the

3266
03:27:45,600 --> 03:27:49,600
Speaker 1: food was almost entirely a thin and liquid diet, and

3267
03:27:49,720 --> 03:27:54,280
Speaker 1: also said that inmates often complained that the best of

3268
03:27:54,400 --> 03:27:57,760
Speaker 1: the farms produce and meats are reserved for the guards

3269
03:27:57,879 --> 03:28:00,680
Speaker 1: and hired help, and just to remind or that they

3270
03:28:00,800 --> 03:28:04,800
Speaker 1: themselves worked to grow all that produce. A prisoner named

3271
03:28:05,000 --> 03:28:08,520
Speaker 1: Carl h sent to the prison farm in nineteen sixty

3272
03:28:08,560 --> 03:28:12,320
Speaker 1: eight on a public drunkenness charge, said, after five days

3273
03:28:12,400 --> 03:28:15,400
Speaker 1: at the facility, quote, I've had one half of a

3274
03:28:15,520 --> 03:28:19,680
Speaker 1: meal since I've been here unquote. Apparently, by this time,

3275
03:28:19,920 --> 03:28:24,120
Speaker 1: local court rulings had determined that chronic alcoholics could no

3276
03:28:24,200 --> 03:28:28,199
Speaker 1: longer be arrested on these charges, but the judge claimed, quote,

3277
03:28:28,680 --> 03:28:32,240
Speaker 1: I'm doing it from a humanitarian standpoint, whether it's legal

3278
03:28:32,480 --> 03:28:36,720
Speaker 1: or not. Unquote. Carl said of that matter, that the

3279
03:28:36,840 --> 03:28:39,400
Speaker 1: judge quote told me that he was going to save

3280
03:28:39,480 --> 03:28:42,280
Speaker 1: my life. I told him he can't save my life

3281
03:28:42,320 --> 03:28:44,800
Speaker 1: out there at the stockade. I told him he can

3282
03:28:44,879 --> 03:28:48,000
Speaker 1: send me anywhere, but not the stockade. He can't save

3283
03:28:48,080 --> 03:28:52,199
Speaker 1: my life out there unquote. This was three years after

3284
03:28:52,360 --> 03:28:57,680
Speaker 1: Superintendent Holsey was praised for his reforms and interviewed by

3285
03:28:57,720 --> 03:29:00,880
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Journal Constitution saying, quote, I'm just trying to

3286
03:29:00,959 --> 03:29:04,400
Speaker 1: make this place sanitary and livable for these people unquote.

3287
03:29:05,080 --> 03:29:08,320
Speaker 1: On two occasions in nineteen sixty nine, the vast majority

3288
03:29:08,360 --> 03:29:12,120
Speaker 1: of prisoners went on strike due to poor food. The

3289
03:29:12,200 --> 03:29:15,120
Speaker 1: first time, they demanded a raise for the cook and

3290
03:29:15,240 --> 03:29:18,280
Speaker 1: the hiring of a new cook. But four months later,

3291
03:29:18,440 --> 03:29:21,920
Speaker 1: these conditions which were agreed to to end the strike

3292
03:29:22,280 --> 03:29:26,199
Speaker 1: had still not been met. Prison farm administrators once again

3293
03:29:26,360 --> 03:29:29,120
Speaker 1: promised to raise cook wages and hire a new cook

3294
03:29:29,480 --> 03:29:31,920
Speaker 1: to end the strike, but we have no indication that

3295
03:29:32,000 --> 03:29:35,520
Speaker 1: they ever followed through on that. In Atlanta Journal Constitution

3296
03:29:35,680 --> 03:29:39,080
Speaker 1: article from nineteen seventy states that prisoners were working in

3297
03:29:39,120 --> 03:29:43,040
Speaker 1: the kitchen while infected with tuberculosis. Quote one man was

3298
03:29:43,080 --> 03:29:45,880
Speaker 1: sent to Batty State Hospital after it was found his

3299
03:29:46,000 --> 03:29:49,880
Speaker 1: tuberculosis was so advanced that he started hemorrhaging. He had

3300
03:29:49,920 --> 03:29:53,480
Speaker 1: worked in the kitchen the night before unquote. When asked

3301
03:29:53,560 --> 03:29:57,560
Speaker 1: about this, the prison farm administrator R. F. Jordan's said

3302
03:29:57,600 --> 03:30:01,240
Speaker 1: that some prisoners do have tuberculosis, and yes, quote some

3303
03:30:01,440 --> 03:30:03,720
Speaker 1: of them work in the kitchen, but only if their

3304
03:30:03,800 --> 03:30:09,400
Speaker 1: case is arrested. Unquote. Employees protesting discrimination against black employees

3305
03:30:09,520 --> 03:30:12,879
Speaker 1: at the farm and unfair and illegal incarceration of alcoholics

3306
03:30:13,360 --> 03:30:16,840
Speaker 1: also said that quote there are rats and roaches and

3307
03:30:17,040 --> 03:30:20,920
Speaker 1: filth that you wouldn't believe unquote. In nineteen seventy one,

3308
03:30:21,080 --> 03:30:23,840
Speaker 1: the prison farm was found to be serving food illegally

3309
03:30:24,000 --> 03:30:28,160
Speaker 1: without a license. But health officials complained that there were

3310
03:30:28,240 --> 03:30:31,240
Speaker 1: only two of them for the entire multi county district

3311
03:30:31,600 --> 03:30:34,720
Speaker 1: and they had no means of actually enforcing licenses or

3312
03:30:34,840 --> 03:30:38,720
Speaker 1: food safety. Just one month later, prisoners again went on

3313
03:30:38,840 --> 03:30:42,720
Speaker 1: strike due to being served watered down gravy and being

3314
03:30:42,920 --> 03:30:48,080
Speaker 1: unjustly incarcerated for alcoholism. Reports on conditions are few and

3315
03:30:48,200 --> 03:30:51,840
Speaker 1: far between after this period, but the two a c

3316
03:30:52,040 --> 03:30:55,840
Speaker 1: l U lawsuit claimed, among other things, that the conditions

3317
03:30:55,920 --> 03:31:00,360
Speaker 1: at the facility are unsanitary. There is most likely more

3318
03:31:00,400 --> 03:31:04,560
Speaker 1: information to find between these years, As one prison farm

3319
03:31:04,640 --> 03:31:07,320
Speaker 1: worker said, quote, we used to have strikes out here

3320
03:31:07,360 --> 03:31:10,480
Speaker 1: about every month, sometimes two or three a month unquote.

3321
03:31:11,200 --> 03:31:16,320
Speaker 1: In nine three, Superintendent Hudson, once hailed as the great

3322
03:31:16,440 --> 03:31:22,440
Speaker 1: humanitarian reformer, was replaced after quote complaints from employees and

3323
03:31:22,640 --> 03:31:26,440
Speaker 1: city politicians about his handling of the city jail, its

3324
03:31:26,520 --> 03:31:31,720
Speaker 1: employees and prisoners. Hudson said of the criticism, quote, I

3325
03:31:31,840 --> 03:31:35,080
Speaker 1: get bored when there aren't any problems. Serenity is not

3326
03:31:35,280 --> 03:31:39,240
Speaker 1: my thing unquote. A big focus of the research that

3327
03:31:39,320 --> 03:31:42,680
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Community Press did was on the question of

3328
03:31:42,959 --> 03:31:47,000
Speaker 1: unmarked graves at the prison farm site. There are persistent

3329
03:31:47,040 --> 03:31:50,000
Speaker 1: folk stories about these that may be tempting for some

3330
03:31:50,240 --> 03:31:54,920
Speaker 1: to write off as unfounded rumors. However, oral histories and

3331
03:31:55,080 --> 03:31:59,760
Speaker 1: qualitative interviews need to be taken seriously and considered along

3332
03:32:00,040 --> 03:32:04,640
Speaker 1: side other forms of evidence. Some stories have already been substantiated,

3333
03:32:05,120 --> 03:32:08,760
Speaker 1: and for others, the evidence found so far certainly places

3334
03:32:08,840 --> 03:32:13,080
Speaker 1: them within the realm of possibility. This episode, I'm not

3335
03:32:13,200 --> 03:32:15,360
Speaker 1: going to try to prove without a shadow of a

3336
03:32:15,400 --> 03:32:19,120
Speaker 1: doubt that there are unmarked graves on the property that

3337
03:32:19,520 --> 03:32:22,480
Speaker 1: is slated to become a cop city, but I will

3338
03:32:22,600 --> 03:32:26,520
Speaker 1: discuss documentation that shows that there is a strong possibility

3339
03:32:26,640 --> 03:32:30,320
Speaker 1: that needs to be carefully and fully investigated, regardless of

3340
03:32:30,440 --> 03:32:34,640
Speaker 1: how long it takes to do so properly. To start,

3341
03:32:34,920 --> 03:32:38,199
Speaker 1: there is this quote from an Atlanta Journal constitution piece

3342
03:32:38,360 --> 03:32:43,440
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy six. Quote, Maud, the deceased elephant and

3343
03:32:43,600 --> 03:32:47,400
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty inmates rest in peace at the

3344
03:32:47,520 --> 03:32:52,039
Speaker 1: City of Atlanta prison Farm. Unquote. Now, I'm gonna unpack

3345
03:32:52,160 --> 03:32:54,800
Speaker 1: that one at a time, because there's a there's a

3346
03:32:54,879 --> 03:32:59,480
Speaker 1: lot there. Uh. The elephant, Maud was the former zoo

3347
03:32:59,600 --> 03:33:03,400
Speaker 1: elephant end that died and whose corpse was dumped at

3348
03:33:03,440 --> 03:33:06,880
Speaker 1: the prison farm property by the city, and as for

3349
03:33:07,040 --> 03:33:11,640
Speaker 1: the line about two hundred and eighty buried inmates. There's

3350
03:33:11,760 --> 03:33:15,959
Speaker 1: no other details given in the article, and some researchers

3351
03:33:16,080 --> 03:33:20,199
Speaker 1: suspect that this is some kind of sick, sarcastic joke

3352
03:33:20,440 --> 03:33:23,600
Speaker 1: on the newspaper's part, as the rest of the article

3353
03:33:23,720 --> 03:33:27,039
Speaker 1: attempts to paint life at the prison Farm as one

3354
03:33:27,200 --> 03:33:33,320
Speaker 1: of leisure and respite. According to local folk historian Scott Peterson,

3355
03:33:34,000 --> 03:33:37,959
Speaker 1: there is, however, a known burial ground off of Bouldercrest

3356
03:33:38,160 --> 03:33:42,720
Speaker 1: and Key Road that contains both marked and unmarked graves

3357
03:33:42,959 --> 03:33:46,680
Speaker 1: that was once owned and operated by the prison Farm. Now,

3358
03:33:46,760 --> 03:33:49,960
Speaker 1: to be perfectly clear, this burial ground is not on

3359
03:33:50,120 --> 03:33:53,800
Speaker 1: the current property slated to become Cops City. The section

3360
03:33:53,840 --> 03:33:56,480
Speaker 1: of land that was originally the prison Farm has been

3361
03:33:56,520 --> 03:34:00,200
Speaker 1: divided up into many smaller pieces, a few hundred years

3362
03:34:00,200 --> 03:34:02,640
Speaker 1: of which the Atlanta Police Foundation is trying to turn

3363
03:34:02,720 --> 03:34:07,440
Speaker 1: into the new militarized police training compound. However, the burial

3364
03:34:07,520 --> 03:34:11,160
Speaker 1: site that Scott Peterson talks about does tell us that

3365
03:34:11,320 --> 03:34:14,200
Speaker 1: a that there is some truth behind at least some

3366
03:34:14,440 --> 03:34:17,560
Speaker 1: of the folk stories, and be the prison Farm as

3367
03:34:17,680 --> 03:34:21,840
Speaker 1: a whole contained at least some unmarked graves, which leads

3368
03:34:21,920 --> 03:34:24,160
Speaker 1: us to believe that there could be others throughout the

3369
03:34:24,240 --> 03:34:28,279
Speaker 1: property and that other claims are at least worth taking seriously.

3370
03:34:29,400 --> 03:34:32,080
Speaker 1: When the Atlantic Community Press was doing the bulk of

3371
03:34:32,120 --> 03:34:35,879
Speaker 1: their historical research last year, they attempted to find death

3372
03:34:36,080 --> 03:34:39,840
Speaker 1: and burial records for inmates that died while incarcerated at

3373
03:34:39,879 --> 03:34:44,800
Speaker 1: the prison farm through archival digging. Select inmate death and

3374
03:34:45,000 --> 03:34:49,280
Speaker 1: burial records were found simply via public reporting. We know

3375
03:34:49,440 --> 03:34:52,520
Speaker 1: for certain that at least several deaths occurred in very

3376
03:34:52,560 --> 03:34:56,840
Speaker 1: close time spans. One man was sprayed with an insecticide,

3377
03:34:57,040 --> 03:35:01,560
Speaker 1: which the warden denies, but which the attending nurse and

3378
03:35:01,879 --> 03:35:07,080
Speaker 1: those who sprayed the man corroborate. Samuel Bayon's thirty six

3379
03:35:07,200 --> 03:35:11,080
Speaker 1: year old black man quote unquote dropped dead shortly after

3380
03:35:11,240 --> 03:35:15,840
Speaker 1: a patrolman woke him up to get dressed. Mark Isaiah

3381
03:35:16,000 --> 03:35:20,960
Speaker 1: Willem died after quote unquote becoming sick. In Atlanta Daily World,

3382
03:35:21,080 --> 03:35:25,840
Speaker 1: headline reads quote coroner's jury will probe death of prisoner.

3383
03:35:26,280 --> 03:35:31,720
Speaker 1: Brown urges full investigation. And that's dated from nineteen fifty three.

3384
03:35:31,920 --> 03:35:36,520
Speaker 1: On April, Robert Reynolds, forty nine year old black man

3385
03:35:36,760 --> 03:35:41,000
Speaker 1: died from head injuries, prompting an investigation, and in reference

3386
03:35:41,080 --> 03:35:46,600
Speaker 1: to Reynolds, Charlie Brown, a nineteen fifty three mayoral candidate, declared, quote,

3387
03:35:46,920 --> 03:35:50,280
Speaker 1: approximately ten prisoners have died in the jail in the

3388
03:35:50,400 --> 03:35:57,040
Speaker 1: last four years under mysterious circumstances unquote. Despite these known deaths,

3389
03:35:57,440 --> 03:36:01,840
Speaker 1: finding official records listing either deaths or burials at the

3390
03:36:01,920 --> 03:36:06,120
Speaker 1: site was much more difficult. On top of searching through

3391
03:36:06,240 --> 03:36:10,960
Speaker 1: several archives, researchers sent Georgia Open Records Act requests to

3392
03:36:11,080 --> 03:36:14,480
Speaker 1: the Police Department, the Department of Corrections, and the Atlantic

3393
03:36:14,560 --> 03:36:18,320
Speaker 1: City Council. The Police Department said that the records would

3394
03:36:18,360 --> 03:36:21,320
Speaker 1: be in the custody of the Department of Corrections. However,

3395
03:36:21,520 --> 03:36:24,320
Speaker 1: the Department of Corrections stated that they are not and

3396
03:36:24,600 --> 03:36:28,320
Speaker 1: never were, the custodians of such records. The Atlantic City

3397
03:36:28,400 --> 03:36:32,959
Speaker 1: Council replied to requests by sending the inaccurate Jillian Wooton

3398
03:36:33,080 --> 03:36:38,360
Speaker 1: History Report, but also connected researchers with a historian. Serena

3399
03:36:38,600 --> 03:36:42,160
Speaker 1: McCracken of the Atlanta History Center has said that there's

3400
03:36:42,200 --> 03:36:46,640
Speaker 1: a possibility such records simply do not exist, either that

3401
03:36:46,840 --> 03:36:49,200
Speaker 1: they were never kept in the first place due to

3402
03:36:49,320 --> 03:36:51,840
Speaker 1: laws at the time, or that they were destroyed at

3403
03:36:51,920 --> 03:36:56,000
Speaker 1: some point, either due to negligence or an expiring period

3404
03:36:56,160 --> 03:36:59,920
Speaker 1: of retention. There is also the possibility that these records

3405
03:37:00,200 --> 03:37:03,720
Speaker 1: do exist and simply have not been yet found. They

3406
03:37:03,760 --> 03:37:06,720
Speaker 1: could have been misfiled, or requests could have been sent

3407
03:37:06,840 --> 03:37:10,039
Speaker 1: to the wrong agency, or they could just be sitting

3408
03:37:10,160 --> 03:37:12,800
Speaker 1: in a box of mill doing records still on the

3409
03:37:12,959 --> 03:37:16,400
Speaker 1: land today, as so many other records were when the

3410
03:37:16,520 --> 03:37:19,440
Speaker 1: city finally shut down the site, many of which are

3411
03:37:19,520 --> 03:37:23,360
Speaker 1: now lost forever in the ensuing fires and other ravages

3412
03:37:23,520 --> 03:37:27,720
Speaker 1: of time. In the Georgia Archives file on the prison farm,

3413
03:37:28,040 --> 03:37:32,600
Speaker 1: a memo was discovered describing procedures for the death of inmates.

3414
03:37:33,440 --> 03:37:36,800
Speaker 1: The memo says that upon a prisoner's death, their nearest

3415
03:37:36,920 --> 03:37:40,640
Speaker 1: kin should be notified. If the body is not claimed, quote,

3416
03:37:41,000 --> 03:37:43,800
Speaker 1: then the body shall be given a pauper's burial not

3417
03:37:44,000 --> 03:37:49,400
Speaker 1: to exceed fifty dollars unquote. Such burials don't always include

3418
03:37:49,400 --> 03:37:53,280
Speaker 1: a headstone, but rather a marker or a burial flag,

3419
03:37:53,520 --> 03:37:57,240
Speaker 1: which can easily erode away or become invisible over time.

3420
03:37:58,320 --> 03:38:02,360
Speaker 1: Not all unmarked graves on the site necessarily exist within

3421
03:38:02,400 --> 03:38:06,360
Speaker 1: a traditional grave plot. According to Scott Peterson, who has

3422
03:38:06,400 --> 03:38:09,240
Speaker 1: collected folk stories and oral histories about the land for

3423
03:38:09,640 --> 03:38:13,160
Speaker 1: twenty years. There is another plot next to an old

3424
03:38:13,240 --> 03:38:16,640
Speaker 1: oak tree and sunken in structure that was once used

3425
03:38:16,760 --> 03:38:20,800
Speaker 1: to shade the warden during lynch ings. This would of

3426
03:38:20,879 --> 03:38:25,720
Speaker 1: course be not legal, but as we've talked about, legality

3427
03:38:25,840 --> 03:38:29,800
Speaker 1: does not always dictate the behaviors of prison farm wardens,

3428
03:38:30,520 --> 03:38:34,200
Speaker 1: and there are records of cases of runaways at other

3429
03:38:34,360 --> 03:38:37,160
Speaker 1: prison farms that were later discovered to have been killed

3430
03:38:37,280 --> 03:38:41,000
Speaker 1: and buried on site. As such, these claims are not

3431
03:38:41,080 --> 03:38:44,879
Speaker 1: outside the bounds of possibility, and, if anything, are highly likely.

3432
03:38:46,040 --> 03:38:49,120
Speaker 1: There are also many similarities between the conditions at the

3433
03:38:49,160 --> 03:38:52,840
Speaker 1: prison farm and those of the Brandon Indian Residential School

3434
03:38:53,240 --> 03:38:56,160
Speaker 1: that would lead to the need to bury many bodies

3435
03:38:56,280 --> 03:39:01,640
Speaker 1: without necessarily keeping tight records. Katherine and Nicole thesis details

3436
03:39:01,840 --> 03:39:06,000
Speaker 1: a history of airborne diseases aggravated by factors such as

3437
03:39:06,160 --> 03:39:11,960
Speaker 1: poor sanitation and ventilation, lack of medical attention, malnutrition, violence

3438
03:39:12,000 --> 03:39:16,560
Speaker 1: and abuse, overwork and accidents, and harsh punishment of runaways,

3439
03:39:17,320 --> 03:39:20,600
Speaker 1: all of which are also seen throughout the prison Farm's history.

3440
03:39:21,600 --> 03:39:24,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to draw too tight a comparison between

3441
03:39:24,560 --> 03:39:28,120
Speaker 1: the prison farm and other places and other events, it

3442
03:39:28,280 --> 03:39:32,360
Speaker 1: is worth looking at other similar situations as something that

3443
03:39:32,600 --> 03:39:36,400
Speaker 1: shows that the question of unmarked graves is not unfounded

3444
03:39:36,600 --> 03:39:41,920
Speaker 1: nor uncharacteristic of the institutions of the time. There have

3445
03:39:42,120 --> 03:39:47,360
Speaker 1: been several other instances where institutions with similar conditions were

3446
03:39:47,480 --> 03:39:51,480
Speaker 1: later found to have unmarked graves, burial grounds, or other

3447
03:39:51,680 --> 03:39:56,440
Speaker 1: human remains. Human remains. In sugar Land, Texas, near the

3448
03:39:56,520 --> 03:40:01,440
Speaker 1: old Imperial Prison Farm, there were found have quote belonged

3449
03:40:01,480 --> 03:40:05,080
Speaker 1: to prisoners who worked on the land once used as

3450
03:40:05,160 --> 03:40:09,800
Speaker 1: a sugar plantation unquote. An article from the Tyler Morning

3451
03:40:10,120 --> 03:40:15,600
Speaker 1: Telegraph describes life of physical abuse, forced labor, and poor nutrition,

3452
03:40:16,200 --> 03:40:20,760
Speaker 1: much like the prison farm in Atlanta. Similarly to Atlanta, quote,

3453
03:40:21,280 --> 03:40:24,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't until it became clear that these abuses were

3454
03:40:24,240 --> 03:40:28,680
Speaker 1: widespread and affecting white prisoners that public opinions started to

3455
03:40:28,879 --> 03:40:34,199
Speaker 1: shift unquote. In Arkansas, in nineteen sixty eight, a reformist

3456
03:40:34,320 --> 03:40:39,000
Speaker 1: superintendent of Cummins Prison Farm discovered the remains of three

3457
03:40:39,120 --> 03:40:44,720
Speaker 1: former prisoners. His discovery quote made international news, embarrassed Governor

3458
03:40:44,879 --> 03:40:50,080
Speaker 1: Winthrop Rockefeller, and infuriated conservative politicians. It also led to

3459
03:40:50,320 --> 03:40:56,160
Speaker 1: merchants firing and banishment from the field of prison management unquote. Finally,

3460
03:40:56,640 --> 03:41:00,879
Speaker 1: although the Brandon Indian Residential School was a prison farm,

3461
03:41:01,440 --> 03:41:05,120
Speaker 1: archival research points to conditions for the prisoners held at

3462
03:41:05,160 --> 03:41:08,240
Speaker 1: the Atlanta prison Farm that are not dissimilar from the

3463
03:41:08,280 --> 03:41:12,199
Speaker 1: conditions of the children held at the Brandon Indian Residential School.

3464
03:41:12,879 --> 03:41:18,040
Speaker 1: We see lacking healthcare, poor sanitation and ventilation, malnutrition, violence

3465
03:41:18,040 --> 03:41:21,840
Speaker 1: and abuse, a heavy workload, accidents, and harsh punishments all

3466
03:41:21,959 --> 03:41:25,960
Speaker 1: contributed to the deaths there, and each of those factors

3467
03:41:26,280 --> 03:41:30,400
Speaker 1: has been demonstrated via archival research to have existed on

3468
03:41:30,560 --> 03:41:34,760
Speaker 1: the prison farm in Atlanta. As mentioned at the beginning

3469
03:41:34,879 --> 03:41:38,320
Speaker 1: of the first episode, this is not an exhaustive or

3470
03:41:38,480 --> 03:41:43,800
Speaker 1: comprehensive history. Further research is necessary, and hopefully, as explained

3471
03:41:43,840 --> 03:41:48,840
Speaker 1: by the past few episodes, is extremely warranted. However, what's

3472
03:41:48,879 --> 03:41:52,040
Speaker 1: laid out here and in the Atlantic community presses other

3473
03:41:52,160 --> 03:41:57,200
Speaker 1: work already changes our fundamental understanding of the Atlanta prison farm.

3474
03:41:58,040 --> 03:42:01,480
Speaker 1: Far from a federal program ending in the sixties before

3475
03:42:01,600 --> 03:42:05,440
Speaker 1: being essentially abandoned, we saw that the Atlanta prison Farm

3476
03:42:05,560 --> 03:42:08,360
Speaker 1: on Key Road was a city run from the very

3477
03:42:08,480 --> 03:42:13,160
Speaker 1: beginning and the direct continuation of the already cruel stockade.

3478
03:42:13,959 --> 03:42:17,600
Speaker 1: Contrary to popular belief, it was run continuously from the

3479
03:42:17,680 --> 03:42:22,160
Speaker 1: early twenties up into the nineteen nineties, it was a

3480
03:42:22,280 --> 03:42:26,240
Speaker 1: completely different property than the Honor Farm. Despite many, including

3481
03:42:26,280 --> 03:42:29,640
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Police Foundation, continuing to use that phrase when

3482
03:42:29,760 --> 03:42:33,520
Speaker 1: referring to the site. At the city run prison farm,

3483
03:42:33,840 --> 03:42:37,800
Speaker 1: atrocious conditions persisted across the better part of a century

3484
03:42:38,480 --> 03:42:41,760
Speaker 1: and ongoing into what we would consider the modern era,

3485
03:42:42,440 --> 03:42:45,840
Speaker 1: despite claims at each stage that the bad times were

3486
03:42:45,920 --> 03:42:50,160
Speaker 1: behind us and a new era lay ahead. There is

3487
03:42:50,240 --> 03:42:53,280
Speaker 1: a documented history of the city prioritizing its ability to

3488
03:42:53,440 --> 03:42:58,600
Speaker 1: cut costs with prison labor, essentially extending slavery, Extensive records

3489
03:42:58,720 --> 03:43:03,320
Speaker 1: of physical and emotional abuse, torture, forced labor, overwork, a

3490
03:43:03,400 --> 03:43:07,760
Speaker 1: lack of healthcare for sanitation, overcrowding, and poor nutrition ranging

3491
03:43:07,840 --> 03:43:12,160
Speaker 1: throughout the entire history of the site. Nearly every stage

3492
03:43:12,160 --> 03:43:15,760
Speaker 1: of leadership has gotten caught breaking rules and laws while

3493
03:43:15,800 --> 03:43:19,920
Speaker 1: avoiding the same carcetral fate as the prisoners, as well

3494
03:43:20,000 --> 03:43:23,160
Speaker 1: as a reluctance by city officials to enact policies that

3495
03:43:23,200 --> 03:43:26,480
Speaker 1: would truly alleviate these harms and attempt to make up

3496
03:43:26,520 --> 03:43:32,240
Speaker 1: for them, rather ensuring that power remains continuous, as is

3497
03:43:32,280 --> 03:43:35,640
Speaker 1: the case with cops city. This history demonstrates how Atlantic

3498
03:43:35,680 --> 03:43:38,960
Speaker 1: City government is perfectly fine with over ruling rights of

3499
03:43:39,040 --> 03:43:42,960
Speaker 1: the residents of Decab County who are disenfranchised from the city.

3500
03:43:43,720 --> 03:43:46,440
Speaker 1: With the Atlanta Police Foundation and the city getting closer

3501
03:43:46,480 --> 03:43:50,560
Speaker 1: and closer to deforestation and facility construction, the window of

3502
03:43:50,600 --> 03:43:54,760
Speaker 1: opportunity is shrinking for further on the ground historical research.

3503
03:43:55,640 --> 03:43:58,240
Speaker 1: The fact that they've yet to meet the requirements for

3504
03:43:58,360 --> 03:44:03,160
Speaker 1: the full environmental assessment, let alone the careful historical analysis

3505
03:44:03,280 --> 03:44:06,920
Speaker 1: necessary considering the history of the land, means that the

3506
03:44:07,000 --> 03:44:10,040
Speaker 1: city is not only physically erasing the history of the

3507
03:44:10,160 --> 03:44:15,080
Speaker 1: lives it's destroyed, but also risking the possibility of desecrating

3508
03:44:15,120 --> 03:44:19,080
Speaker 1: their graves in the process. A guest column in the

3509
03:44:19,120 --> 03:44:23,959
Speaker 1: Supporter Report by Lilly Ponins, an environmental engineer and now

3510
03:44:24,240 --> 03:44:27,960
Speaker 1: former member of the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee for the

3511
03:44:28,120 --> 03:44:32,760
Speaker 1: Atlanta Public Safety Training Center ak A COP City, gave

3512
03:44:32,879 --> 03:44:36,039
Speaker 1: us an inside look at how the development of COPS

3513
03:44:36,040 --> 03:44:40,000
Speaker 1: City is knowingly and willingly refusing to do their due

3514
03:44:40,000 --> 03:44:45,480
Speaker 1: diligence assessments and pave over decades of corstral history. Quote.

3515
03:44:45,800 --> 03:44:48,920
Speaker 1: Since joining the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee for the Atlanta

3516
03:44:49,000 --> 03:44:52,800
Speaker 1: Public Safety Training Center. I've observed the developers from Da

3517
03:44:52,840 --> 03:44:57,160
Speaker 1: Vinci Development Collaborative, along with the Atlanta Police Foundation, mislead

3518
03:44:57,200 --> 03:44:59,840
Speaker 1: the community into believing that they are following a legitimate,

3519
03:45:00,080 --> 03:45:04,600
Speaker 1: regulated environmental due diligence process. In reality, they are doing

3520
03:45:04,720 --> 03:45:08,160
Speaker 1: less than the minimum to meet the legally defined standards

3521
03:45:08,440 --> 03:45:12,640
Speaker 1: for environmental site assessment reporting and are breaking the trust

3522
03:45:12,720 --> 03:45:16,280
Speaker 1: of stakeholders and the terms of their ground lease agreement

3523
03:45:16,400 --> 03:45:20,160
Speaker 1: with the City of Atlanta. Given the historical operation as

3524
03:45:20,200 --> 03:45:26,000
Speaker 1: a prison farm and plantation prior to that conditions violence, abuse, accidents,

3525
03:45:26,080 --> 03:45:29,840
Speaker 1: and harsh punishments, it is reasonable to believe that areas

3526
03:45:29,920 --> 03:45:34,039
Speaker 1: of the property could contain human remains in unmarked graves.

3527
03:45:34,800 --> 03:45:39,680
Speaker 1: This was never investigated. Comments and professional input from myself

3528
03:45:39,879 --> 03:45:44,080
Speaker 1: and others on the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee were brushed off,

3529
03:45:44,400 --> 03:45:49,320
Speaker 1: and no additional site investigations were considered beyond the limited

3530
03:45:49,480 --> 03:45:53,520
Speaker 1: site investigation. To remedy this, the City of Atlanta must

3531
03:45:53,720 --> 03:45:57,360
Speaker 1: force the development team to act responsibly by requiring a

3532
03:45:57,440 --> 03:46:01,320
Speaker 1: proper phase to environmental site assessment. If they fail to

3533
03:46:01,360 --> 03:46:04,480
Speaker 1: do so, taxpayers are likely to foot the bill for

3534
03:46:04,600 --> 03:46:09,560
Speaker 1: the remediation that is being ignored or for the complicated

3535
03:46:09,640 --> 03:46:14,320
Speaker 1: litigation that will arise when this development team disturbs human

3536
03:46:14,480 --> 03:46:19,400
Speaker 1: remains on this site unquote. A few months ago, Lily

3537
03:46:19,520 --> 03:46:24,119
Speaker 1: Pontins was kicked off the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee after

3538
03:46:24,280 --> 03:46:28,920
Speaker 1: writing this column. Both the Community Stakeholder Advisory Committee and

3539
03:46:29,160 --> 03:46:32,840
Speaker 1: COPS City have repeatedly been made aware that the assessments

3540
03:46:32,879 --> 03:46:36,879
Speaker 1: they've done failed to meet environmental requirements, and the reports

3541
03:46:36,920 --> 03:46:39,360
Speaker 1: that they're using to base decisions off of and green

3542
03:46:39,480 --> 03:46:43,920
Speaker 1: light proposals have been shown to be inaccurate. As far

3543
03:46:44,160 --> 03:46:50,400
Speaker 1: as responding to City council, APF enlisted Terra Con to

3544
03:46:50,640 --> 03:46:57,200
Speaker 1: write a cultural report. This report was highly inaccurate due

3545
03:46:57,320 --> 03:47:04,439
Speaker 1: to relying on the Billian Luten report. I personally emailed

3546
03:47:04,520 --> 03:47:10,920
Speaker 1: City Council as Atlantic community press collective and as I've

3547
03:47:11,000 --> 03:47:14,480
Speaker 1: repeatedly told them, hey, this is incorrect, this is why,

3548
03:47:15,600 --> 03:47:20,640
Speaker 1: here's proof. This is really disgusting and sad that you

3549
03:47:20,840 --> 03:47:27,360
Speaker 1: refuse to acknowledge any of this history. And ironically, a

3550
03:47:27,520 --> 03:47:32,400
Speaker 1: month or two later, another report comes out that's slightly better,

3551
03:47:33,040 --> 03:47:37,920
Speaker 1: slightly revised, but still has that whitewashed aspect that the

3552
03:47:37,959 --> 03:47:42,680
Speaker 1: original one did. I had the misfortune to recently need

3553
03:47:42,800 --> 03:47:47,800
Speaker 1: to reread the terra con report um, and I don't

3554
03:47:47,840 --> 03:47:53,960
Speaker 1: believe they they address when the city supposedly took over

3555
03:47:54,040 --> 03:47:56,480
Speaker 1: the prison the federal farm at all. I don't think

3556
03:47:56,520 --> 03:47:59,440
Speaker 1: they discussed that date in the slightest. But the Bluten

3557
03:47:59,480 --> 03:48:02,680
Speaker 1: report they draw from, I think she just says sometime

3558
03:48:02,720 --> 03:48:05,400
Speaker 1: in the fifties, which was how we figured out because

3559
03:48:05,440 --> 03:48:07,320
Speaker 1: we were trying to nail down the date of the fifties,

3560
03:48:07,360 --> 03:48:08,680
Speaker 1: and when we had to go back and back and

3561
03:48:08,760 --> 03:48:12,120
Speaker 1: back and back and back. We found out when the

3562
03:48:12,200 --> 03:48:14,840
Speaker 1: city purchased the land by literally just going to the

3563
03:48:14,920 --> 03:48:21,600
Speaker 1: decap history archives at the courthouse and looking them up.

3564
03:48:24,200 --> 03:48:29,199
Speaker 1: A fairly quick process in terms of research that APF

3565
03:48:29,520 --> 03:48:35,200
Speaker 1: obviously didn't hair or bother to look into at all.

3566
03:48:35,959 --> 03:48:39,760
Speaker 1: Obviously the City of Atlanta didn't either. Yeah. In her

3567
03:48:39,840 --> 03:48:44,280
Speaker 1: residential school thesis, Katherine Nichols lays out a robust process

3568
03:48:44,600 --> 03:48:49,960
Speaker 1: for unobtrusively examining possibilities of human remains while respecting the

3569
03:48:50,040 --> 03:48:55,920
Speaker 1: communities affected. Her process involves thorough archival research, including the

3570
03:48:56,080 --> 03:48:59,920
Speaker 1: use of oral histories and unconfirmed local knowledge to general

3571
03:49:00,520 --> 03:49:04,960
Speaker 1: leads for a deeper investigation. This archivalrysearch is then situated

3572
03:49:05,000 --> 03:49:09,200
Speaker 1: alongside the currently existing literature on the subject. She then

3573
03:49:09,240 --> 03:49:13,360
Speaker 1: conducts qualitative interviews with local community members and family members

3574
03:49:13,440 --> 03:49:17,960
Speaker 1: of those affected. She stresses that this qualitative information is

3575
03:49:18,000 --> 03:49:19,640
Speaker 1: not to be written off just because it does not

3576
03:49:19,800 --> 03:49:23,840
Speaker 1: align with records that the state institutions consider to be legitimate.

3577
03:49:24,480 --> 03:49:27,040
Speaker 1: And finally, she lays out a method for field research

3578
03:49:27,160 --> 03:49:33,520
Speaker 1: including site reconnaissance, field walking and probing, site preparation, controlled burns, mapping,

3579
03:49:33,760 --> 03:49:39,760
Speaker 1: aerial photography, soil profiles, metal detector surveys, ground penetrating radar,

3580
03:49:40,160 --> 03:49:44,640
Speaker 1: and ground conductivity surveys, all checked against controls to ensure

3581
03:49:44,680 --> 03:49:47,520
Speaker 1: that they align with the results of the same methods

3582
03:49:47,640 --> 03:49:52,080
Speaker 1: on previously known unmarked grave sites. Crucially, all of this

3583
03:49:52,320 --> 03:49:55,680
Speaker 1: is done with the consent of the relevant communities and

3584
03:49:55,880 --> 03:50:00,720
Speaker 1: is done unobtrusively as to not disturb the graves. Now

3585
03:50:00,760 --> 03:50:05,040
Speaker 1: that the construction process has ostensibly started, Um, how does

3586
03:50:05,080 --> 03:50:10,800
Speaker 1: that factor into, like, you know, disturbing the grounds where

3587
03:50:10,960 --> 03:50:14,200
Speaker 1: there could be no all of this history that is

3588
03:50:14,600 --> 03:50:18,440
Speaker 1: being unearthed and kind of paved over top of. Um,

3589
03:50:18,800 --> 03:50:20,960
Speaker 1: how does that kind of impact the ability to do

3590
03:50:22,280 --> 03:50:26,600
Speaker 1: ethical research going forward into the history of this land. So,

3591
03:50:26,960 --> 03:50:30,680
Speaker 1: for one thing, we talked on and off with a

3592
03:50:30,800 --> 03:50:36,360
Speaker 1: handful of archaeologists and anthropologists and related fields about if

3593
03:50:37,160 --> 03:50:39,720
Speaker 1: we were going to go onto the prison farm property

3594
03:50:40,000 --> 03:50:46,280
Speaker 1: and conduct a search for grape sites or other historical information, like,

3595
03:50:46,800 --> 03:50:48,800
Speaker 1: we have no legal way to do that. It would

3596
03:50:48,840 --> 03:50:53,920
Speaker 1: be trespassing. And we also know that from the quote

3597
03:50:54,000 --> 03:50:59,920
Speaker 1: unquote cultural report that the Police Foundation had done, they

3598
03:51:00,040 --> 03:51:03,040
Speaker 1: didn't really do that kind of search. Um, they were

3599
03:51:03,120 --> 03:51:06,920
Speaker 1: mostly searching for evidence of I guess you could say

3600
03:51:06,960 --> 03:51:13,160
Speaker 1: indigenous artifacts, not let's say bodies buried in the nineteen twenties.

3601
03:51:14,280 --> 03:51:19,200
Speaker 1: So the ability to do on site historical research is

3602
03:51:20,400 --> 03:51:22,560
Speaker 1: it kind of depends on, Hey, how willing are you

3603
03:51:22,640 --> 03:51:26,400
Speaker 1: to get picked up for felony trespassing because that's a

3604
03:51:26,480 --> 03:51:29,480
Speaker 1: charge they can put on you. It definitely feels like

3605
03:51:29,520 --> 03:51:32,160
Speaker 1: we're up against a clock. I'm just going to add

3606
03:51:32,200 --> 03:51:34,760
Speaker 1: on to that. I feel like one of the issues

3607
03:51:34,840 --> 03:51:38,560
Speaker 1: that we've definitely come across, as far as looking for

3608
03:51:39,840 --> 03:51:43,520
Speaker 1: graves that are related to the prison farm, your options

3609
03:51:43,560 --> 03:51:47,880
Speaker 1: are pretty much grund Prendy trading radar or what they

3610
03:51:47,920 --> 03:51:53,480
Speaker 1: call cadaver dogs. Cadaver dogs theoretically can sniff up to

3611
03:51:53,560 --> 03:51:58,280
Speaker 1: a hundred years. From what I've read, how many people

3612
03:51:58,320 --> 03:52:02,200
Speaker 1: have connections to cadaver dogs honestly, and then also the

3613
03:52:03,080 --> 03:52:07,400
Speaker 1: just logistics of attempting to get ground penetrating radar in

3614
03:52:08,000 --> 03:52:14,720
Speaker 1: a forest UM is definitely difficult. Are you worried as

3615
03:52:15,040 --> 03:52:20,000
Speaker 1: construction continues that even if stuff is discovered, whether that

3616
03:52:20,080 --> 03:52:23,000
Speaker 1: be unmarked graves or you know other other various other

3617
03:52:23,080 --> 03:52:27,200
Speaker 1: things that do you have any any level of confidence

3618
03:52:27,240 --> 03:52:30,240
Speaker 1: that if things are found they'll even go public? Or

3619
03:52:30,240 --> 03:52:32,640
Speaker 1: are you worried that if they find things they'll just

3620
03:52:33,680 --> 03:52:38,000
Speaker 1: cover it up? Basically, I have absolutely zero faith. I

3621
03:52:38,040 --> 03:52:40,440
Speaker 1: mean to me that I have absolutely zero faith to

3622
03:52:40,520 --> 03:52:43,480
Speaker 1: directly ensure a question. I have absolutely zero faith that

3623
03:52:44,400 --> 03:52:47,640
Speaker 1: anything that is found will be preserved. UM. We also

3624
03:52:47,680 --> 03:52:51,640
Speaker 1: have it on fairly good authority that the issuing of

3625
03:52:51,720 --> 03:52:56,520
Speaker 1: construction permits is imminent. UM. The cab kine of Commissioner

3626
03:52:56,640 --> 03:53:03,160
Speaker 1: Ted Terry is are our best uh legal ally, if

3627
03:53:03,200 --> 03:53:06,680
Speaker 1: you will um our best government ally. He last week,

3628
03:53:06,800 --> 03:53:12,000
Speaker 1: during the Week of Action, introduced UM a resolution that

3629
03:53:12,080 --> 03:53:18,320
Speaker 1: would ask Dicab County CEO Michael Thurmond to basically make

3630
03:53:18,400 --> 03:53:21,320
Speaker 1: a series of asks himself of the City of Atlanta.

3631
03:53:21,760 --> 03:53:24,880
Speaker 1: This is basically legally the most the County Commission can

3632
03:53:24,960 --> 03:53:28,040
Speaker 1: do and it is all incumbent upon the CEO of

3633
03:53:28,120 --> 03:53:31,600
Speaker 1: the county to actually do these things. UM hope is

3634
03:53:31,720 --> 03:53:34,560
Speaker 1: not great for the county CEO to do any of

3635
03:53:34,640 --> 03:53:39,440
Speaker 1: these things. But um ted Terry, among other things, asked

3636
03:53:39,480 --> 03:53:42,400
Speaker 1: for additional environmental studies, which by the way, they are

3637
03:53:42,440 --> 03:53:46,600
Speaker 1: required to do in the lease. He asked for additional

3638
03:53:47,520 --> 03:53:52,760
Speaker 1: historical research and full disclosure. He actually cited the Press

3639
03:53:52,840 --> 03:53:56,480
Speaker 1: Collective's history report we did last summer in the legislation,

3640
03:53:56,600 --> 03:54:00,120
Speaker 1: which was both he's a state actor, but also you've

3641
03:54:00,120 --> 03:54:03,040
Speaker 1: got to admit that's kind of cool. Um, it was

3642
03:54:03,520 --> 03:54:08,400
Speaker 1: gratifying to see our work receive a fairly high level

3643
03:54:08,480 --> 03:54:14,160
Speaker 1: of recognition. Additional environmental studies, historical research, noise studies, and

3644
03:54:14,360 --> 03:54:18,320
Speaker 1: ultimately he asks that the CEO asked the city to

3645
03:54:18,560 --> 03:54:23,560
Speaker 1: consider just relocating the site completely. I think something that

3646
03:54:23,640 --> 03:54:27,840
Speaker 1: we need to take into consideration throughout this entire research

3647
03:54:28,000 --> 03:54:31,760
Speaker 1: process is that a lot of the records that we

3648
03:54:31,920 --> 03:54:37,080
Speaker 1: have access to our newspaper, the primary newspaper service we

3649
03:54:37,120 --> 03:54:38,920
Speaker 1: have access to is the a j C, which we

3650
03:54:39,160 --> 03:54:44,120
Speaker 1: have a clear we have clear proof that a j

3651
03:54:44,280 --> 03:54:47,680
Speaker 1: C continues to be racist, continues to focus on the

3652
03:54:47,800 --> 03:54:51,400
Speaker 1: narrative that they would like to project as far as

3653
03:54:52,600 --> 03:54:57,360
Speaker 1: being accomplices to the police and to a p F

3654
03:54:58,200 --> 03:55:06,000
Speaker 1: and how that correlates to this city's history and mishandling

3655
03:55:06,080 --> 03:55:11,040
Speaker 1: of this piece of land. Um. When we were looking

3656
03:55:11,280 --> 03:55:17,160
Speaker 1: through older articles, they are handful of papers. There's the

3657
03:55:17,200 --> 03:55:20,200
Speaker 1: Great Sparckled Bird, which is as so it's a student

3658
03:55:20,280 --> 03:55:27,120
Speaker 1: run newspaper. This one, I'm assuming, just based on the

3659
03:55:27,240 --> 03:55:32,680
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies time frame, that there's a decent chance

3660
03:55:32,920 --> 03:55:35,440
Speaker 1: that it was primarily written by white people. I do

3661
03:55:35,600 --> 03:55:38,800
Speaker 1: not have proof of that. I'm just going on with

3662
03:55:38,960 --> 03:55:43,920
Speaker 1: gut feeling with that. So there is a probably a

3663
03:55:43,960 --> 03:55:48,520
Speaker 1: bit of bias, but it really does start to give

3664
03:55:48,680 --> 03:55:51,560
Speaker 1: a different picture of the people that were sent to

3665
03:55:53,240 --> 03:55:56,280
Speaker 1: the prison from There were several g SU students who

3666
03:55:56,320 --> 03:55:58,600
Speaker 1: were sent there and they were put in the whole.

3667
03:55:59,400 --> 03:56:01,320
Speaker 1: One was put the whole just because he had long

3668
03:56:01,400 --> 03:56:04,600
Speaker 1: hair and he refused to cut his hair, so they said,

3669
03:56:04,840 --> 03:56:08,320
Speaker 1: you know what, you're going into isolation, have fun um

3670
03:56:08,440 --> 03:56:11,440
Speaker 1: and he was there for a little bit. It's important

3671
03:56:11,520 --> 03:56:14,800
Speaker 1: to reiterate that throughout much of the archival research that

3672
03:56:14,920 --> 03:56:18,680
Speaker 1: produced these findings, the bulk of the articles discovered were

3673
03:56:18,720 --> 03:56:22,480
Speaker 1: from the Atlanta Journal, The Atlantic Constitution, and the Atlanta

3674
03:56:22,520 --> 03:56:27,240
Speaker 1: Journal Constitution after the two merged. Though these papers reported

3675
03:56:27,320 --> 03:56:30,520
Speaker 1: on bad conditions once they had become public, and in

3676
03:56:30,600 --> 03:56:33,840
Speaker 1: two cases were responsible for investigative work that made these

3677
03:56:33,880 --> 03:56:39,200
Speaker 1: conditions public. These white run papers, much like many major newspapers,

3678
03:56:39,600 --> 03:56:42,040
Speaker 1: have a known history of racism and support for the

3679
03:56:42,080 --> 03:56:47,680
Speaker 1: police state and carcetral institutions. We therefore believe that a

3680
03:56:47,880 --> 03:56:52,040
Speaker 1: thorough search through archives of black run newspapers such as

3681
03:56:52,160 --> 03:56:56,840
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Daily, World, magazines and other publications is necessary

3682
03:56:57,120 --> 03:57:01,320
Speaker 1: to gain a more complete understanding of the history. Both

3683
03:57:01,520 --> 03:57:05,640
Speaker 1: myself and the researchers that put this history together are

3684
03:57:05,880 --> 03:57:09,400
Speaker 1: furthermore white, and so it is possible that our own

3685
03:57:09,520 --> 03:57:13,120
Speaker 1: biases and blind spots could be present in this reporting.

3686
03:57:13,840 --> 03:57:16,760
Speaker 1: We strongly believe that a more complete accounting of this

3687
03:57:16,960 --> 03:57:20,360
Speaker 1: history could be undertaken by people who have been more

3688
03:57:20,560 --> 03:57:24,440
Speaker 1: directly affected, and hope that these episodes and the research

3689
03:57:24,640 --> 03:57:27,720
Speaker 1: they're based on, is not taken as the end of

3690
03:57:27,800 --> 03:57:31,280
Speaker 1: the story, but just a beginning and an invitation to

3691
03:57:31,440 --> 03:57:35,440
Speaker 1: further scrutiny. Is there really any way to continue the

3692
03:57:35,520 --> 03:57:40,720
Speaker 1: research that would be necessary to actually preserve the history

3693
03:57:40,840 --> 03:57:46,880
Speaker 1: and keep people knowledgeable about the atrocities that's happened the

3694
03:57:46,920 --> 03:57:50,600
Speaker 1: past hundred plus years, Like with if construction continues, is

3695
03:57:50,640 --> 03:57:52,240
Speaker 1: there even a way to do this now or is

3696
03:57:52,360 --> 03:57:56,080
Speaker 1: that clock really just running out? So I think one

3697
03:57:56,120 --> 03:57:59,760
Speaker 1: of the biggest hurdles as far as preserving the history

3698
03:58:00,520 --> 03:58:04,920
Speaker 1: is honestly just getting people to care about it, because

3699
03:58:05,960 --> 03:58:12,880
Speaker 1: it's not sexy. It's not people in tree houses. It's

3700
03:58:13,760 --> 03:58:18,840
Speaker 1: sitting on a computer just skimming through thousands of articles.

3701
03:58:19,200 --> 03:58:22,480
Speaker 1: No one cares that in two the a c l

3702
03:58:22,600 --> 03:58:25,640
Speaker 1: You sued the city because they were using illegal in

3703
03:58:26,240 --> 03:58:30,600
Speaker 1: unconstitutional punishments. Nobody really cares about that kind of stuff.

3704
03:58:30,640 --> 03:58:33,640
Speaker 1: It's not that exciting in the grand scheme of things,

3705
03:58:34,640 --> 03:58:38,040
Speaker 1: but it's part of the history, and it's part of

3706
03:58:38,240 --> 03:58:41,000
Speaker 1: what has led us to where we are now with

3707
03:58:41,160 --> 03:58:45,600
Speaker 1: Cops City and with that that wraps up our miniseries

3708
03:58:46,280 --> 03:58:49,520
Speaker 1: on the very much incomplete history of the old Atlanta

3709
03:58:49,640 --> 03:58:53,520
Speaker 1: Prison Farm. The fact that there's seemingly little to know

3710
03:58:53,840 --> 03:58:57,240
Speaker 1: original official records to learn from because they were either

3711
03:58:57,600 --> 03:59:00,880
Speaker 1: trashed or never kept in the first place, is itself

3712
03:59:01,240 --> 03:59:04,560
Speaker 1: cover up and denial of history and gross denial of

3713
03:59:04,640 --> 03:59:07,880
Speaker 1: the experiences of trauma and oppression of those who are

3714
03:59:07,920 --> 03:59:11,320
Speaker 1: subjected to the horrors of the prison farm. It's bad

3715
03:59:11,440 --> 03:59:14,240
Speaker 1: enough that the city couldn't be bothered to remember the history,

3716
03:59:14,880 --> 03:59:19,880
Speaker 1: but crucially they're bulldozed over. Police endorsed narrative in whatever

3717
03:59:20,280 --> 03:59:23,920
Speaker 1: museum or plaque they want to create cannot be allowed

3718
03:59:24,000 --> 03:59:26,840
Speaker 1: to become the story of the prison farm. And it's

3719
03:59:26,960 --> 03:59:30,960
Speaker 1: many atrocities that we are still rediscovering. There is still

3720
03:59:31,080 --> 03:59:33,240
Speaker 1: a long way to go and we have barely scratched

3721
03:59:33,320 --> 03:59:36,720
Speaker 1: the surface. Hopefully this is just the start of more

3722
03:59:36,800 --> 03:59:40,520
Speaker 1: people paying attention to the forgotten histories like this and

3723
03:59:40,640 --> 03:59:44,320
Speaker 1: then going out and doing further digging. You can check

3724
03:59:44,320 --> 03:59:47,040
Speaker 1: out the Atlantic Community Press Collective and they're great reporting

3725
03:59:47,320 --> 03:59:51,520
Speaker 1: at a t L Press Collective dot com or Atlanta

3726
03:59:51,720 --> 04:00:00,280
Speaker 1: Underscore Press on Twitter. See you all on the other side. Hey,

3727
04:00:00,400 --> 04:00:03,480
Speaker 1: we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

3728
04:00:03,520 --> 04:00:06,360
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the universe. It could happen.

3729
04:00:06,440 --> 04:00:08,720
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

3730
04:00:08,760 --> 04:00:11,560
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone

3731
04:00:11,600 --> 04:00:13,400
Speaker 1: Media dot com, or check us out on the I

3732
04:00:13,520 --> 04:00:16,760
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3733
04:00:17,200 --> 04:00:19,280
Speaker 1: You can find sources for it could happen here. Updated

3734
04:00:19,400 --> 04:00:22,840
Speaker 1: monthly at cool Zone Media dot com Slash sources. Thanks

3735
04:00:22,880 --> 04:00:23,360
Speaker 1: for listening.