WEBVTT - Selects: How the Fairness Doctrine Worked 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.600 Hey guys, it's me Josh, and for this week's episode, 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:07.720 I've chosen our twenty twenty two episode on the Fairness Doctrine. 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.320 It's been coming up all over the place lately, so 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:12.400 I thought it was high time that we released it 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:14.760 as a select. And I went back and listened to 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.360 this one, and I found that Chuck just kind of 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.159 sat back and really just let me go. And I 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.319 really appreciate him for that, because this one really got 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:28.960 my goat. Enjoy. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:37.760 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.239 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.960 there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's jaredog the Rome 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.920 Land of all Time over there, and. 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.480 This is the stuff you should know. Wow. I gotta 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.440 pep it up a little bit, you know? Is that 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:56.960 what that was? 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.320 Screw it up a little bit, That's what I meant to. 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:07.600 Say, speaking of screwing up Chicago, Illinois, screwing up. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:09.800 It is. 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.520 I was trying to think about this, like which approach 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.240 should we take. Should we just outright lie and say 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.120 like there's very few tickets left, so you better go 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.440 get them now? No? Or should we shame them and 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.199 say there are plenty of tickets left, a disappointing amount 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:25.080 of tickets left. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.320 I think we should just be honest and not shame them, Okay, 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:33.959 but express our disappointment. Nothing works better than disappointment. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.760 You know, Chicago, we really expected a little more from 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:39.319 you than this. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:46.040 So if you're confused about what we're talking about, probably 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.840 because you haven't heard, and that's our fault. About our 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:54.200 live shows coming up all around the country to cities 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:55.440 we've never been to before. 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:57.360 Yeah, yeah, we've. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.400 Never been to Orlando before. We've never been to Portland, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:01:59.960 Maine before. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:00.920 That's right. 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.800 But we are going to Chicago again because we thought 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.840 Chicago loved us on July twenty fourth at the Harris Theater, 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.000 and then Toronto the next night on July twenty fifth. 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:11.800 They're buying a lot of tickets. They love us up there. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:16.040 Yeah, the Dan fourth, and then Boston August twenty ninth, Portland, 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.480 May and August thirtieth, Orlando and New Orleans October ninth 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.960 and tenth, and then Brooklyn the twenty third through the 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:22.560 twenty fifth. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.600 Yeah, October three night run at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:27.520 which is going to be great. 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:28.160 That's right. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.880 But again, Toronto, you're doing great guys. 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:32.799 Keep it up. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.800 Chicago, you could stand to step it up a little bit. 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:36.960 You got a little bit of time. 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:38.280 But why wait you know. 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:40.600 Yeah, I mean the seats are only going to get worse. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.160 True dad, chuck, true dad. 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:48.280 So just go to s ysk live for our home, 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.040 our touring home on the web thanks to our buddies 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.760 at squarespace. Oh yeah, and now let's talk about the 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:55.800 fairness doctrine. 0:02:56.000 --> 0:03:01.440 Okay, we actually need to If this were, say, pre 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.880 nineteen eighty seven, we would need to have Jerry come 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.360 in and say, so, here's all the reasons why you 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.520 shouldn't buy tickets to stuff you should know live if 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.920 we were going to follow the fairness doctrine. But it's 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.000 not tilling in nineteen eighty seven. And as a matter 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.880 of fact, I wonder how podcasting would how this would 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.920 apply or have applied to podcasting if it had still 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.640 been around, or if podcasting would have been one of 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.120 those things that kind of grew up around the fairness doctrine. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:33.000 Who knows, but it's a fascinating What are those called 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.720 when when it's impossible? Sure, there's another word for it. 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.160 When it's something that just can't possibly happen, kind of 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.200 like speculative fiction or something like that. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:45.280 I can't remember. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.160 But you know, since podcasts don't fall under the FCC, 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:49.200 then doubt if. 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.480 It would have mattered. Oh yeah, I guess that's true. Huh. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.960 Yeah, we could if we wanted to. Right now, we 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.280 could say every curse word, every awful thing in the 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:02.480 world under the sun. We elect not to do that everyone. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.640 I heard a radio DJ the other day say, I 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.000 know you want to curse so bad right now, this 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:14.120 is why we're getting a podcast, and I was like, yeah, 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.800 I guess we could. I guess we could curse, but 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:18.520 it's I like that we don't chuck. 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:19.240 I do too. 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.240 And if you want to hear me curse just a 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.160 you can come to a live show true to true 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.080 because it happens a little bit. Or B you can 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.720 just join me over at movie crush I cuss. I 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:29.640 had a lot over there. 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:30.480 Yeah. 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.640 I think at first people were like, oh, and then 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.240 now I think people go listen in part to hear 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:37.800 you curse. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:39.880 They like to hear that blue streak coming out, and 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.479 they hear the real me. Oh. 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.640 I like to think that both sides are the real 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.440 you put together well. 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:50.280 For roughly two and a half hours a week, this 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:50.919 is the real me. 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.320 Do you find it difficult not to curse on the show? Uh? 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.920 No, I mean I'm fully used to it by now, Yes, 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:02.200 but I definitely am not as fully free wheeling as 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:03.240 I normally am. 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:04.880 Yeah, I guess I should say. 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:06.440 I don't want to give the impression that I'm like 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.080 some you know, Flanders type or whatever. I curse pretty 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.000 routinely myself in regular life, but I guess I find 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.839 it kind of comforting just knowing that there's a there's 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.359 a safe space where I don't say the F word 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:21.039 a lot. 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.680 You should start another podcast just called filth Floren Filth 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:26.400 with Josh Clark. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.400 Okay, that's a pretty good idea. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.160 But none of this has to do with the nineteen twenties, 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.200 except for the fact that people did not curse on 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.800 the radio back then either, because there weren't a lot 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.039 of people on the radio in the nineteen twenties. No, actually, 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.080 pre or early early early nineteen twenties, that is, right. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:50.520 Pre November nineteen twenty, there was not much going on 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.599 on the radio aside from Morse Code, some Ham radio operators. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:55.320 And remember we. 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.080 Did a pretty good episode on Ham Radio. 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:58.440 Love those I remember correctly. 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.800 Yeah, Well, one of the things I remember about that 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.159 Ham Radio episode is that there was a kind of 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:10.839 a whole hacker anarchic ethos surrounding the early days of radio. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:12.800 You know, it's just a total free for all. You 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.520 could broadcast on whatever station you wanted to and get 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.200 in arguments with, you know, the government if you wanted to, 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:20.200 who cared. 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:21.719 There was not a. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.359 Lot of ways to trace anybody, So there was a 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.920 lot of anything goes mentality among the early Ham radio operators. 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.200 But that was basically all you would hear is people 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.240 saying like, hey, how's it going, kind of thing, you know, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.960 maybe some heavy breathing. And then in November nineteen twenty, 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.960 a station called k d KA actually organized itself and 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:49.320 the first broadcast that it put out was reading the 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:54.679 election results from the James Cock James Cox, Oh my gosh, 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.720 almost just violated FCC. 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:01.600 Rules this dirty talk James Cox. 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.720 Warren Harding a nineteen twenty presidential election. It was the 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:12.040 first commercial licensed radio broadcast in the world. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.000 I think, yeah, I think that's a great trivia question. 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.000 If someone were to say, what was what city hosted 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.000 or whatever was part of the first radio commercial radio 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:27.160 broadcast Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And the follow up would be and 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:32.320 what did they broadcast a federal a presidential election outcome? 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.480 Which was a big deal because it's weird to think 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.240 about in nineteen twenty that people all over the country 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:41.920 were waiting for that morning paper to come out. 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:46.080 Except in Pittsburgh. They knew, right, they did know. 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.400 And not everybody in Pittsburgh, just the people who had 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.560 basically built their own radios because that was the radios 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:52.160 that were around. 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.880 They were they're like eight people are Pittsburgh pretty much 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:55.760 pretty much. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.840 But the fact that this happened in words spread pretty quickly. Yes, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.600 some people in Pittsburgh knew the election results because they 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.240 were listening to the radio and. 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.760 They ran around yelling that out and said we heard 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.520 it on a radio, and everyone's like these people, lock 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:09.920 them up. 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:11.640 Yeah. 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.600 And also other little known fact, the first song played 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.680 on the radio was radio killed the newspaper Star. 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:21.280 Did you just make that up or did you have 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:22.920 that prepped? I just made it up? 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.840 Okay, good job, thank you man. I'm glad you got 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.520 like that. Grudging good job, because there was almost contempt 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:31.680 in that first initialb. 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.680 Well, because off the cuff, that's a great joke. But 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.280 if you workshop that over a few hours, then no, no. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.200 No, when's the last time I workshopped a joke? 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.679 I don't know? Okay, you don't let me in your workshop, 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.440 and I know I keep it a close to the 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.760 guarded secret. So okay. So here's the point. 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:47.760 This is the reason we're even talking about that first 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.959 broadcast is because that was November nineteen twenty. By nineteen 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.520 twenty four, I think there were and in nineteen twenty 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.480 there were like twenty thousand radios. Nineteen twenty four, there 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.200 were one in a half million radios in the United States. 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:07.360 By nineteen thirty eighty, no, nineteen forty eighty three percent 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.480 of every household in America had a radio. And so 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:17.160 there was this massive transition from distributing news and making 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.559 sure everybody was up to date on all the information 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.280 they needed to be like a smart voter or hold 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:27.560 like political or social or cultural opinions. That transition moved 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:32.280 from newspapers, from print, which still hung around, sure, but 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:37.880 over to radio. Radio became much much more prevalent as 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.720 far as the spread of information to an increasingly large 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.000 number of people went in the United States in a 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.400 very short time, in like twenty years. 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:48.120 Yeah. 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:53.480 So in the nineteen forties, the FCC and you know, 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.480 there's some background all this that we'll get to, but 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.720 we haven't even really said what the Fairness Doctrine is yet. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:09:59.400 No. No. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:04.520 Finally, in nineteen forty nine, the US government said, you 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:06.560 know what, we need some help here. We're a little 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:12.040 bit worried that, geez, somebody could some private citizen who's 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.360 wealthy could go and buy all the radio stations and 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.360 essentially propagandize the news, right, and there's nothing we can 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:19.959 do about it. 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.440 Yeah, So basically what they said was this, there is 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.520 one thing we can do about it. We can flex 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:31.679 our muscle as the government and specifically say you broadcasters 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:32.600 can't do. 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:38.240 That, that's right, via something called the Fairness Doctrine, which 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:43.040 had the overall goal of basically, and it's very kind 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.280 of cute to look back at this time period, but 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.240 its initial goal was to make sure that all the 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:52.080 information on the radio waves was good information and true 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.200 and fair and enriching. And there's only so much space 0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:00.680 on a radio dial, and this is very critical that 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.599 there were a limited number of frequencies available. 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:05.959 Yes, frequency scarcity. 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.360 I think, yeah, that's just put a pin in that 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.800 because that's a very big deal. Is how this weighed 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.040 in the favor of the fairness doctrine and then also 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.360 kind of helped kill it in some ways. Sure, but 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:20.720 basically the very progressive view that public interests outweigh private 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.120 interest in the public has a right to really good 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.600 information over the free speech of the broadcaster. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:32.600 Even Yes, so you just hit it right on the head, 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.719 like that is the crux of the fairness doctrine. And 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.359 it seems like okay, depending on your viewpoint, either. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:40.200 Like the most. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:47.040 Vile idea ever or just a completely sensible idea. And 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.640 the reason that it can present the same these two 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:55.640 totally different opinions is because this idea, the fairness doctrine, 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.080 is it sits right at the heart of the difference 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:04.240 between the right and the left, between conservativism and libertarianism 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.920 and liberalism, right, and it is it comes down to this, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:16.320 like you if you have to promote public intercourse like 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.880 people understanding not doing it in public, but I mean 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:24.720 like discourse, public intercourse. So yeah, I guess doing it 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.440 in public if you're going to promote public discourse and 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.880 protect it. As a government saying like that, the like 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.920 it's the role of government to say, we need to 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.480 make sure that the quality of the information that's getting 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:41.000 out there is protected, and that. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:41.960 We have to do that. 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.720 We have to limit what broadcasters can say. We have 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.800 to curtail free speech to people on the right, like 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.920 right there, full stop. That's a problem. That's an issue. 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.160 It's it has fatally flawed because you are curtailing the 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.360 free speech of somebody, whether it's a whether it's NBC 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.480 or Joe Schmoe who wants to say something on the radio, 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.720 It doesn't matter. You are curtailing free speech, and therefore 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.360 that is wrong. The people on the lift say, well, 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.160 whoaa wo, this is the this is this is a 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:18.000 privilege to broadcast on the radio, and in order to 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.480 protect the larger public and its interests, we have to 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.959 curtail that free speech of the very narrowed money moneyed 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:31.760 interests that can afford a license to broadcasts. And there's 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.280 no way to reconcile the two. You can't. You have 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.640 to choose a side. You have to form an opinion 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.080 one way or the other and whatever you choose is 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.960 your larger view of whether you're a liberal or whether 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:46.000 you're conservative. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.280 Yeah, pretty much. I mean it fell along those lines 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:51.600 back then and still does today. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:52.120 Mm hmm. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.720 Even though the fairness doctrine isn't around, the ideology. 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.560 Is well, it keeps getting brought out in kind of 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:03.520 you know, forced along like an angry parade route in 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.560 order to kind of say like, look, look, look what 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.120 the government's capable of doing. Look at the overreach they 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.720 really want to do. Don't let them do it again with. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:12.440 X, right. You know. 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:14.839 So it is it's a huge flash point, and it's 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:19.560 understandable why it seems like so kind of limp and 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.720 bureaucratic and boring, But when you dig into the history 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.640 of the whole thing and even the contemporary idea behind it, 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.080 it's a huge flashpoint politically in the United States. 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:30.920 Yeah. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.720 So it had a couple of main components, and then 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.280 within that a couple of big, big rules, very important rules. 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.960 The first of the components were they were known together 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.160 as the fairness rule, which is private broadcasters must report 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:47.680 on my matters of public interest. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.120 Like it's a responsibility of you as a broadcaster that's right. 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:58.040 And private broadcasters must cover opposing perspectives regarding that public interest. 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:00.320 It's a big one. That's a big one. And then 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:01.560 the little rules there. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.640 The personal attack rule said that if you're a broadcaster 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.560 and you are going to run a negative story on 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.600 somebody or something prior to that, you have to let 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.640 these people know or this organization know and give them 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.960 time to respond on the air. And then the political 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:22.200 editorial rule, which is private broadcasters that air editorial programming 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.520 that endorses a political candidate must inform other candidates and 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.400 offer them time to respond on air. Not to be 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.800 confused with the equal time rule, that's different. 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:38.360 Yeah, the equal time rule is why debates are supposed 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.760 to have all candidates, because you're supposed to if you 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:46.000 give one candidate time airtime to say, hey, here's my platform, 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.440 you're supposed to give all other candidates the equal amount 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.320 of time. And that political editorial rule kind of it's 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.680 close to it, and it follows in the same tradition 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.760 and principle. But really the personal attack rule and the 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.720 political editorial role that we're part of the fairness doctrine. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:05.680 That's just like the foundation of good journalism. Basically, it 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.600 was not. They're not radical ideas. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:09.080 That's a good point. 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:13.000 So the idea though that that public or that private 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.440 broadcasters have to talk about issues and then have to 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.640 error opposing viewpoints, that is that is kind of controversial 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.840 because it's saying like he we we the government are 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.760 saying you have to do this, this is your responsibility. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.520 And the idea that the government even has control over 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:34.560 airwaves is is in dispute, but it actually dates pretty 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:38.680 far back, and we'll talk about the background, the backstory 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.400 behind the fairness doctrine after a message. 0:16:41.400 --> 0:17:06.200 How about that sounds good? Okay, Chuck. 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.320 So there's one thing to really understand what we're talking 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.119 about here. Initially we were talking about radio waves and 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.640 then eventually TV waves, and then I eventually turned into 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.639 the Internet. But all these things, especially something like a 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:23.880 airwaves for a radio and TV, these exist naturally, right. Yeah, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.960 there's not like a government factory that produces radio waves 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.480 and then the government can say, well, we produce these 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.280 so we can divvyot. Do you think man, that it's 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:40.040 an artificial idea that the government can say we regulate 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.280 these airwaves because it's citizens listening to the stuff that's 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.600 broadcast on the airwaves, and it's private companies broadcasting on 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.200 the airwaves using equipment that's manufactured by other private companies. 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.200 So the government is insinuating itself and saying, well, well, well, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.760 this is too important to leave to the market. We 0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.880 have to regulate this in some ways, and we're going 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:03.280 to do that. And the whole thing actually started with 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.879 the Titanic, to tell you the truth, the Titanic ship, 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:12.320 the Titanic ship, the very one shot that's right. Leading 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.800 up to the Titanic, you know, radio was being used 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.439 and quite a bit in maritime communication. In fact, we 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.840 even passed the Ship Act of nineteen ten, which required 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.119 ships leaving the United States to have radio equipment to 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.840 know how to use it, and sort of laid out 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.960 some basic broadcasting standards. But what they didn't do was say, 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:37.360 all right, we're going to assign radio frequencies and we're 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.159 going to like reserve a channel for emergencies. Only this 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.520 kind of stung them because a couple of years after that, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.480 a little boat called the RMS Titanic ship the Titanic, 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.600 It wasn't a little boat, it was a ocean liner. Sure, 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:56.760 I used to know the difference between ocean liner and 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:02.600 a cruise ship. I think ocean liners are transitlanic. 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:03.680 Is that is that the deal? 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.479 I've never heard the difference. I think that's it was 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:07.600 one and the same or something. 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:12.719 I think an ocean liner specifically can cross two different continents. 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:14.639 I got yeah. I guess a cruise ship could just 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:16.080 hug the coast or something like that. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.240 I think that, But I might be making all that up, 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:18.879 I gotcha. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:23.399 So the Titanic sank, there was a lot of radio 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.919 traffic going on as the disaster breaks out. Obviously, so 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:32.160 even though this in Newfoundland they heard very early on 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.520 and picked up this distress call, they couldn't really get 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.600 it out because everything was all clogged up. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.640 Yeah, there are a lot of ham radio operators screwing 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:41.880 things up at the time. 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:42.520 That's right. 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.280 And that's what prompted the Radio Act of nineteen twelve, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.359 which was sort of the beginnings of the foundation of 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.959 what would eventually become the Fairness Doctrine, because what it 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:57.080 did was it established spectrum allocation, and the FCC basically said, hey, listen, 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.000 if you want to broadcast, you can't just broadcast. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.600 You got to come to us and get a license. 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:08.280 Yeah, Initially it was the Commerce Department that was issuing licenses. Yeah, 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.479 and then came the Radio Act of nineteen twenty seven 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.840 that formed the Radio Commission and they started handling licenses. 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.560 But not only did they start saying, Okay, you're a broadcaster, 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.719 here's your license. This is the frequency that you can 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.679 broadcast on. Prior to that that was around in the 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:28.639 Radio Act, that was the Commerce Department that did that, 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.159 But there was no way to police it. And so 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:35.080 if you were say NBC Radio, and there were a 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.280 bunch of people broadcasting on your frequency at seven pm, 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:41.800 you just switched to Yeah, well no, you just switched 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.040 to a different frequency and start broadcasting. And so there 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.320 was no way to police it. Well, with the Radio 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.359 Act of nineteen twenty seven and the creation is Radio Commission, 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:52.320 there was a way to police it because you could 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.439 have your license revoked and if you kept broadcasting, guys 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.640 would come to your house and kidnap your family. 0:20:59.480 --> 0:20:59.760 Yeah. 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.200 But and the really important thing, and this is how 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.240 it not your family? 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:04.679 Right. 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.000 The really important thing was that established what we talked 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:11.360 about before, which is spectrum scarcity. There's only so much 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.439 space now if everyone has to apply for a license, 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:16.800 who wants to broadcast. 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.800 It's just it was very key in the setup. 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:23.639 And then, like I said, eventual downfall of the fairness doctrine. 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.680 Yeah, because it says this like, Okay, here's the full 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:30.360 here's the full spectrum the radio spectrum that we can 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.719 broadcast on, and we're going to carve it up, and 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:37.520 each person gets a specific frequency to broadcast on. That 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.920 means that there's a finite number of frequencies. So there's 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:45.000 a finite number of licenses, which means that not everybody 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:51.320 can have a license to broadcast, which means that the 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.040 people who do have that license to broadcasts have a 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:58.720 very important privilege afforded to them. And because it's a privilege, 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.840 because the government isn'tuated itself and said we're doling out 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:05.560 these privileges, we've decided we the government have decided that 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:12.200 you have a responsibility to present fair and balanced reporting 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:17.200 to the government to the public, including basically all sides 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.920 of an issue, like you have a responsibility that supersedes 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:25.320 your right to free speech as a broadcaster. That's what 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:27.240 spectrum scarcity created. 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.600 Right this The nineteen twenty seven Radio Act, while it 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:37.000 did establish that, it kind of made some errors basically, 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:38.120 and how they set it up. 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:40.399 There are a lot of misspellings. Yeah, there are a 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:41.240 lot of misspellings. 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.520 But they would say basically to the broadcasters, you have 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.359 to air content in support of quote, public convenience, interest 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:49.840 or necessity end quote. 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.120 But they didn't really define what that was. 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.080 Which, by the way I looked it up, I was like, 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.480 what does public convenience mean? Apparently in the UK it 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.399 means a public toilet, and that's the only definite I 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.000 could ever find for it. So somebody just made that up. 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.800 Yeah, I know, the air content about public toilets, right, 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:09.240 an would being great actually. 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:11.639 Like that apart from naked gun, it's just nothing but 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:13.000 the sounds of people peeing. 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:16.760 But this is a big problem because if something isn't 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.760 clearly defined, then it can't be it can't be enforced, 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.359 right you know. So in nineteen thirty four they knew 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.400 that this was a problem. This was how many years later, 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:31.000 like seven years later, and they said, you know what, 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:33.920 we need to issue another act because we're the federal government. 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.800 And so the Federal Communications Act replaced the Radio Act. 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:42.760 The FCC was born, replaced the Radio Commission, and the 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:44.840 FCC said all right, the first thing we got to 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.200 do is define what this public interest thing is all about. 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:50.840 Right, because not only does it make it difficult to enforce, 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.000 it makes it difficult to follow. So, like, even if 0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:56.399 you're broadcasting and you're like, I totally agree with this, 0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:59.919 I do have a rite and responsibility, what's this public 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:01.199 public convenience thing? 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:01.480 Again? 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:03.280 Like, how do I do this? What am I supposed 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.280 to be doing? And if it's not defined, yeah, you 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:08.359 can't enforce it. You also can't follow it if you 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:10.880 want to follow it. So there was just too much 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:14.720 gray area. And so the FCC, when this was created, 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:18.080 this idea of, Okay, we're going to set about like 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.200 defining this stuff and really generating this idea of what 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:24.520 it means to be a responsible broadcaster. It happened at 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.679 a really liberal time in America's history, right after the 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:32.119 New Deal had really kind of come along and changed 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:37.359 the complexion of America pretty dramatically, and liberalism and progressivism 0:24:37.400 --> 0:24:41.080 had really set in and was entrenched in the fabric 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:45.800 of American politics. And so there was this idea that 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:53.760 the best way to prevent broadcasters from asserting an overbearing 0:24:53.920 --> 0:24:57.320 influence on public discourse because they had the loudest voice 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:01.159 because they had the radio licenses right was to just say, 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:05.840 you guys can't editorialize at all. And this became known 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.920 as the Mayflower decision or the Mayflower doctrine. It was 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:13.280 a nineteen forty one FCC ruling that basically said, you 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:18.920 know what, you guys have to basically be neutral in 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:22.359 that you can't you can't say anything. You can't present 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:25.680 any particular side. If we find out that you guys 0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:30.800 are promoting, say the policy agenda or the favorite politics 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:33.000 of like your station owner or your parent company or 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:36.000 something like that, yeah you're in trouble. And that was 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:40.800 kind of like the line that they drew no editorializing whatsoever. 0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:43.119 That's right, and that that really sort of laid the 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:45.560 groundwork in a big, big way for the fairness doctrine, 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:48.399 even though the Fairness Doctrine sort of undid that it 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.040 did and said, well, you know, editor you can editorialize, 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.280 but you just have to do it on both sides. 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:57.520 Right, you have to present, present, prevent present both sides. 0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:00.440 And like, on the one hand, that was a gift 0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:03.280 to the to the broadcasters right there saying okay, you 0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:06.200 can you can use your own voice. You can state 0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:09.000 your own opinion, you can support your own political candidate, 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:13.640 but you have to give airtime to the other political candidate. 0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:17.560 You have to give airtime to people with an opposing. 0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:18.520 View of what you just said. 0:26:19.480 --> 0:26:22.159 So it was kind of like a compromise, but it 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:26.840 was also a weakening of the progressivist agenda, I guess yeah. 0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:30.680 And the broadcasters did not like it for sure, because 0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:33.800 again they were still sort of confused about what what 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:36.879 does public importance mean. We're not even sure you know, 0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:40.560 everything's decided and applied on a case by case basis. 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:42.400 In other words, yeah, that's a big one. 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:42.920 Yeah. 0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:46.720 In other words, if somebody just files a complaint, basically 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:49.400 they will take up that complaint and hear that complaint. 0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:51.880 But it wasn't like some like big sweeping thing. 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:55.080 No, But it was also Chuck, that's so that that 0:26:55.200 --> 0:27:00.280 means that it's it's a capricious an arbitrary basically aping 0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:03.199 the rule on a case by case basis rather than 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:06.879 a sweeping regulation. But it's also a weakness because it 0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:09.800 means that the SEC is saying, we'll leave it to you, 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:12.480 the broadcasters, to police yourselves. We're only going to act 0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:14.280 when somebody complains. 0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:16.800 Yeah, So what happened in a lot of cases was 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:18.960 some radio stations were like, you know what, I'm not 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:21.000 even going to go there, and I'm going to avoid 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:25.560 controversy at all together because I don't think we pointed 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:30.639 out it wasn't just about politics. It was basically covered 0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:34.240 controversial issues in general, like and that this will play 0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:37.879 a big part, like everything from climate denial to the 0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:41.560 anti vaxx movement in the nineteen eighties, like they all 0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:44.679 had to have equal time under the fairness doctrine, and 0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:47.640 a lot of people point to the fairness doctrine as 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:50.960 like how these movements got jumped started to begin with 0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:54.560 because they didn't put those opinions in context. They were 0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:57.360 just like, you know, they didn't say, this is very 0:27:57.359 --> 0:28:00.880 scientifically valid, and now here's the oppos posing viewpoint, which 0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:02.080 has no science to back. 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:06.080 It up, right exactly, And that was the fact that 0:28:06.119 --> 0:28:08.520 they didn't do that. They were airing on the side 0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:14.399 of caution over editorializing, but also probably they were trying 0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:17.800 to make sure that everybody was was not offended. They 0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:20.119 didn't offend either side because they didn't want to be 0:28:20.160 --> 0:28:23.040 boycotted with advertising too or fined. 0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:24.600 Sure. Yeah. 0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:27.000 So that was a big problem with the fairness doctrine 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:31.040 is that it was ill defined. It was it opened 0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:35.520 the door for opposing viewpoints that that that put them 0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:39.680 on equal footing or equal ground with with with other 0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:43.720 viewpoints that were say, scientifically backed, which created what's called 0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:49.080 the false balance problem. And then uh, there was opposition 0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:52.800 to it to basically the to the fairness doctrine from 0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:56.080 from the outset, not just the broadcasters who thought they 0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:58.800 didn't want any kind of restriction on their speech, but 0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:04.840 also interesting it represented a loophole to combat advertising too, 0:29:05.040 --> 0:29:08.440 which I think the SEC hadn't thought of, but they said, yeah, 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:09.960 this actually applies. 0:29:09.840 --> 0:29:10.960 When it came up. 0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:15.120 There was a ruling in nineteen sixty seven that found 0:29:15.120 --> 0:29:23.760 that cigarette advertising qualified as a a presentation of one 0:29:23.920 --> 0:29:29.200 viewpoint of a controversial subject. Basically, cigarette smoking is great, 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:35.280 Go smoke some cigarettes. And so some consumer groups petitioned 0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:38.200 the FCC and said, hey, we should be able to 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:41.400 give the opposing viewpoint, don't smoke cigarettes, it's bad for you. 0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:45.320 And the SEC said, you're absolutely right, And advertisers. 0:29:44.720 --> 0:29:46.560 Were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:48.440 This is a big deal, and now they jumped in 0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:52.360 to back up the National Association of Broadcasters, which was 0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:54.240 opposed to the fairness doctrine in general. 0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:56.440 Yeah, and it also you know that kind of thing, 0:29:57.160 --> 0:29:59.840 if advertising counts, that opens the doors, and it did, 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:03.480 or you know, like and we'll we'll get to this 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:06.120 more specifically later. But like if a power company wanted 0:30:06.120 --> 0:30:08.720 to do an ad about their great new nuclear power 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:11.120 plant that they were going to build, like a liberal 0:30:11.280 --> 0:30:13.880 group can come forward and say no, no, no, like, 0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:17.280 that's not an ad. I know they're paying for airspace, 0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:20.200 but that means we need to talk about the ills 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:21.560 of nuclear power. 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:22.080 Right right. 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:25.160 And I mean even if it wasn't ed, the opposing 0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:28.160 group could say, we get free airtime to say that 0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:30.320 this is the opposite of that. And so if you're 0:30:30.320 --> 0:30:33.600 a broadcaster, especially if you're in like a successful market 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:39.360 that you know fifteen thirty sixty second spot is important, 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:41.760 you don't want to give that away. But it may 0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:44.960 also you may have like an interest in whatever the 0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:48.000 other group is protesting. So just on that in that 0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:50.000 respect as well, you don't really want to air the 0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:52.800 opposing view. The problem with the fairness doctor. And if 0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:56.320 you're libertarian or conservative is that it said you have 0:30:56.440 --> 0:30:59.280 to do that, you have to air this opposing view. 0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:03.400 The sc says, so that's right. So you got to 0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:04.680 think this is going to end up in court at 0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:05.160 some point. 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:08.480 Sure, and it did quite a few times over the years, 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:13.960 not surprisingly, and for about a twenty to thirty year period, 0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:18.720 US courts basically supported the FCC in fulfilling this mandate. 0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:22.600 There were some real highlights. In nineteen sixty nine. There 0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:26.960 were a couple of big court rulings that affirmed this enforcement. 0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:33.320 One was Red Lion Broadcasting Company Incorporated the FCC. It's 0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:36.080 a little mouthy, it is. So this one was sort 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:39.560 of two cases in one. The Supreme Court was able 0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:42.880 to kill two birds. One case was an FCC appeal 0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:45.800 of a lower court ruling that said this, you know, 0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.480 the personal attack and political editorial rules, those two big 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:53.000 rules were unconstitutional. And the second was a broadcaster appealing 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:56.160 of a lower court ruling that said the FCC's application 0:31:56.760 --> 0:32:00.239 of those rules was constitutional. So I said, all right, 0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:03.920 you guys, let's just combine this into one thing and 0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:07.160 we'll hear the case. And then the latter one that 0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:10.680 was an investigative journalist named Fred J. Cook and he 0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:12.600 filed a complaint, and like we said, it was case 0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:15.560 by case stuff. So this complaint made it all the 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:18.800 way to the Supreme Court. Fred Cook filed a complaint 0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:24.560 against Redline Broadcasting who owned WCGB, because they had a 0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:28.640 broadcast with Reverend Billy James Hargas that claimed that Cook, 0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:32.880 who was an author and wrote a very kind of 0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:37.160 salacious expos about the FBI, and this reverend said, you 0:32:37.160 --> 0:32:39.800 know what, this author worked for the communist and he 0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:43.560 attacked j Edgar Hoover. And it turns out they didn't 0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:46.760 contact Cook to give him that equal chance to respond, 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:50.360 and they denied him his demand for that, and it 0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:52.280 made it all the way to the Supreme Court, and 0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:54.520 the Supreme Court said, you know what, Redline, you're wrong. 0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:56.280 You got to do this right. 0:32:56.440 --> 0:33:00.680 So and since the Supreme Court ruled that that Cook 0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:03.440 could have equal airtime, this is like I think twelve 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:06.600 years or nine years later, and I could not find 0:33:06.640 --> 0:33:09.000 anywhere if he actually took him up on it or not. 0:33:09.720 --> 0:33:11.800 But the whole thing was just like a It was 0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:15.160 an ad hominem attack, an attack on him on Cook 0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:19.040 because Cook had written a book against Barry Goldwater, who 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:22.800 was a presidential candidate at the time, and the people 0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:27.000 who ran Red Lion didn't like it, so they attacked Cook. 0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:28.640 But he so they. 0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:31.240 In this ruling though, and this is the whole point, 0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:34.920 not that Cook got his time, it was airtime, but 0:33:34.960 --> 0:33:39.800 that the Supreme Court ruled that the SEC applying this 0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:45.560 fairness doctrine was good and fine and constitutional, which is 0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:50.520 a big deal. They ruled that the SEC could constitutionally 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:55.320 exercise this fairness doctrine, which is that was just enormous. 0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:57.160 Yeah, it was a very very big deal. 0:33:58.120 --> 0:34:00.280 The other big kind of landmark case was that same 0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:04.320 year the Office of Communication of the United Church of 0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:08.080 Christ at all the FCC. 0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:10.480 Another sinilating title. 0:34:11.600 --> 0:34:14.120 There was a US appeals court who overturned the FCC's 0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:18.280 decision not to consider a petition to revoke the license 0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:23.600 of Lamar Broadcasting WLBT. So these citizens got together civil 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.040 rights groups and they were like, you know what, this 0:34:26.120 --> 0:34:28.920 station is awful. They are first of all, they're not 0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:32.920 covering the civil rights movement, and they're flat out racist 0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:36.600 and segregationist, and so we're going to petition this. And 0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:40.200 the FCC denied the petition in nineteen sixty four and 0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:43.400 said citizens don't have the standing to file a petition 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:43.879 like this. 0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:47.319 Which is pretty surprising because you know, the citizens are 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:50.600 the ones the sec have always been like fighting for right. 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:54.160 It was a little hinky hinky is the word that 0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:57.080 we used to use. So the petitioners appealed, and in 0:34:57.160 --> 0:35:03.360 nineteen sixty six, yeah, sixty the Court of Appeals for 0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:07.120 DC said, you do have standing to petition the FCC 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:10.520 to revoke a license, right, because that's all about protecting 0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:13.360 the public interest, which is what the FCC was supposed 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:13.920 to be doing in. 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:15.840 The first place. So get back to work. 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.759 And finally, in nineteen sixty seven, the FCC revisited that 0:35:19.800 --> 0:35:24.160 petition rejected it again because they said, hey, the station 0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:26.839 has actually kind of taken some steps since then, and 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.960 we think they're doing the right thing. Petitioners still weren't happy. 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:34.040 They appealed that. In nineteen sixty nine, the FCC actually 0:35:34.080 --> 0:35:35.920 revoked Lamar Broadcasting's license. 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:38.600 They did. As far as as far as I could tell, 0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:43.520 Lamar Broadcasting was the one and only company to lose 0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:44.760 their license under. 0:35:44.560 --> 0:35:46.160 The Fairness Doctrine permanently. 0:35:46.239 --> 0:35:49.120 Yeah right, they never got it back and chuck a 0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:53.120 little cherry on top because Lamar Broadcasting lost the license 0:35:53.200 --> 0:35:56.680 of WLBT in Jackson, Mississippi. It was up for grabs 0:35:56.960 --> 0:36:01.680 and it was taken by a majority black owned group 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:05.760 that took over the station at that point, isn't that nice? 0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:10.720 So things seem to be going smoothly for the fairness doctrine. 0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:13.160 What could go wrong? Well, we'll tell you what could 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:14.240 go wrong after a break? 0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:37.919 How about that? Okay, Chuck. 0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:41.960 So one thing that I've learned is it's not necessarily 0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:47.600 like the Supreme Court is their decisions are final forever. 0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:50.960 They kind of shift and move over time over long 0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:53.279 enough periods of time. And the fairness doctrine is a 0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:56.400 really good example of that, because in the sixties the 0:36:56.440 --> 0:37:01.440 Supreme Court ruled pretty clearly the FEC was constitutional. But 0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:04.320 by the end of the seventies the Supreme Court started 0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:08.400 to side with broadcasters instead. The windsor change kind of 0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:11.400 blew through there. And there was one case in particular 0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:14.600 that the Supreme Court heard in nineteen seventy nine that 0:37:15.160 --> 0:37:20.279 signaled a real change for the fairness doctrine and the 0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:23.879 sec applying it. And it was a case that involved 0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:28.799 WJIMTV in Lansing, Michigan, which is owned by a guy 0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:30.000 named Harold Gross. 0:37:30.719 --> 0:37:30.959 Yeah. 0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:35.240 So the complaint here was that he or the station 0:37:35.440 --> 0:37:40.279 rather via Harold Gross, had abused their broadcasting power to 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.279 the detriment of the public. So what he did was 0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:47.240 he denied airtime to political rivals in some cases. 0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:48.120 In other cases he. 0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:52.160 Censored coverage of local businesses if they didn't advertise with them. 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:55.880 Yeah, he was accused of clipping, which is taking like 0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:59.120 when a network delivers a show it has commercial breaks 0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:01.319 in it. He would have his editors go through and 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:04.239 add even more commercial breaks, which you're not supposed to do. 0:38:05.400 --> 0:38:06.000 That was a big one. 0:38:06.120 --> 0:38:09.040 Didn't cover the Jimmy Hoffa disappearance because he didn't like 0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:11.879 Jimmy Hoffa's politics, even though it was a national and 0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:12.880 a local story. 0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:13.520 Yeah. 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:17.080 So in nineteen seventy five a hearing by the FCC said, 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:21.160 you know, you violated the fairness rule. We're taking your license, buddy. 0:38:21.760 --> 0:38:25.320 But he appealed it and this time he won the appeal. 0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:27.560 And like you said, this was a big shift in 0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:30.680 the way things were being thought about as far as 0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:31.839 the fairness doctrine went. 0:38:32.840 --> 0:38:35.120 Hey, one one more thing about Harold Gross before we 0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:39.400 move on this guy. He was such a businessman that 0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:42.880 when he started his TV station in nineteen fifty w JIM, 0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:45.520 he was actually one of the first one hundred and 0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:49.319 eight license holders to broadcast on TV. But he wasn't 0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:51.440 sure that TV was going to stick around, that it 0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:53.759 was going to take off as a technology, so he 0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:58.000 built the WJIM facilities so that it could be converted 0:38:58.040 --> 0:39:01.239 into a motel if TV didn't go anywhere. So the 0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:04.560 original WJIM TV station had. 0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:06.520 A pool out back. What is it now? Do you know? 0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:09.880 What is what? The buildings the pool? I don't know. 0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:12.680 I looked up to see if there was anything recent 0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:16.239 about it, and I didn't find any new stuff. But 0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:19.640 I saw a picture of the station and there's definitely 0:39:19.640 --> 0:39:22.000 a pool out back from back in the fifties. 0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:23.960 It's got a nice perk, I guess. 0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:26.440 So I wonder if you let anybody swim in it 0:39:26.560 --> 0:39:26.719 or not. 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:27.800 I don't know. 0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:30.040 Maybe if you advertised, he would have let you. 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:34.640 So this was the mid to late seventies, and then 0:39:35.280 --> 0:39:38.760 things really really started changing in the nineteen eighties because 0:39:40.360 --> 0:39:42.799 that whole thing about remember when we said putting a 0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:46.759 pin in spectrum scarcity, that was no longer a problem. 0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:49.799 By the mid nineteen eighties, there were more than ten 0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:56.000 thousand radio stations, thirteen hundred TV stations, about seventeen hundred newspapers, 0:39:56.680 --> 0:40:00.560 and the whole sort of drum beat was like, wait 0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:03.520 a minute, there's not a problem here anymore with scarcity. 0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:04.520 We should be able to do what we want. 0:40:04.600 --> 0:40:08.319 Because you told newspapers from the very beginning that their 0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:11.560 free speech was protected and they could do whatever they want. 0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:12.600 Why are we any different. 0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:15.480 Yeah, that's a really big point that a lot of 0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:18.120 people pointed to over the years, is why does this 0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:23.360 just apply to electronic media? Like the print media literally 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:26.640 has an editorial page where they come out with positions 0:40:26.640 --> 0:40:29.000 on candidates and all this stuff. Why doesn't it apply 0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:31.080 to them? And for years and years and years it 0:40:31.120 --> 0:40:34.400 was any schmoke can basically go get a newspaper. Printed 0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:37.719 radio is different because of that spectrum scarcity. 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:39.880 But yeah, as the satellite. 0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:42.200 People came along, and as cable came along, that just 0:40:42.280 --> 0:40:45.920 kind of went out the door. So spectrum scarcity going away, 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:49.200 and the fact that the newspaper industry, the print media, 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:53.120 was not regulated anywhere near the same way really kind 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:58.560 of removed any remaining foundation for the fairness doctrine to 0:40:58.880 --> 0:40:59.400 stand on. 0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:03.440 Yeah, So in nineteen eighty five, the FCC kind of 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:09.200 got their gears turning and said, you know what we 0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:09.840 think this is. 0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:12.880 We want Congress to review this. 0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:17.560 Basically, we're going to institute a public comment period even 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:22.399 and we think we should abandon the personal attack rule 0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:24.560 and in this case by case thing right. 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:27.560 And yeah, they did this for like two years, and 0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:31.040 while the SEC's holding like these public hearings on it, 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:34.120 Congress at the same time was saying, well, we don't 0:41:34.120 --> 0:41:36.600 really want the fairness doctrine to go away, and not 0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:40.719 just the left. There was a bipartisan supported bill that 0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:44.799 got passed in Congress to codify the fairness doctrine, but 0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:49.440 it was vetoed by Reagan and so after that that 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:51.480 was basically it for the fairness doctrine. 0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:55.839 Yeah, the FCC voted unanimously to just get rid of it. 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:59.960 They did, and so they didn't actually get rid of it, 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:02.960 they just stopped enforcing it, or some parts of it. 0:42:02.960 --> 0:42:07.360 They kept enforcing I think the personal attack and political 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:11.200 editorial provisions up until like two thousand, for like another 0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:15.280 thirteen years. But the idea that you had to promote 0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:22.440 opposing viewpoints on your television station or your radio station 0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:26.799 that went away starting in nineteen eighty seven, and a 0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:32.600 lot of people say that really changed the American media 0:42:32.719 --> 0:42:34.000 landscape big time. 0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:40.719 Yeah, I mean, you know, depending on who you are. 0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:44.080 I know, I'm trying to dance around this. 0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:46.840 Depending on who you are, you probably have a very 0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:49.879 strong opinion about the fairness doctrine one way or the other, 0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:52.680 or you may think it was a mixed thing. It 0:42:52.800 --> 0:42:55.880 was definitely a flawed policy. I think everyone agrees that 0:42:55.920 --> 0:43:01.440 it wasn't perfect, But the legacy is really complex. You know, 0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:05.279 getting rid of it basically open the door for what 0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:09.760 we have today, which is a degraded news standard, minority 0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:14.600 viewpoints that aren't necessarily covered, and how polarized we are 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:17.360 because you know, people dug in and they said, all right, 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.880 I'm going to start my super conservative radio stations, and 0:43:20.920 --> 0:43:23.839 then people said, I'm going to start my super conservative 0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:30.160 liberal website and radio shows, and liberals are going to 0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:32.560 listen to theirs, and conservatives are going to listen to theirs, 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:34.400 and never betweens she'll meet. 0:43:35.120 --> 0:43:37.959 Right right, And so especially if you have, like each 0:43:38.080 --> 0:43:44.080 side promoting a viewpointer or an agenda to the detriment 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:48.000 of the other side. There's like the middle ground is lost, 0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:50.600 which I mean some people, I know, some people aren't 0:43:50.680 --> 0:43:54.839 very hip on centrism these days anyway, but I mean 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:59.160 you can keep a pretty decent sized society together when 0:43:59.760 --> 0:44:05.000 you kind of follow a centrist access upward and onward, 0:44:05.120 --> 0:44:07.680 you know. And I think that to me, the fairness 0:44:07.680 --> 0:44:10.520 doctrine showed that. I mean, like, I don't think it's 0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:12.880 a big surprise where I fall on whether the fairness 0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:13.680 doctrine is a good. 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:16.800 Idea or not. But I just don't think it's. 0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:22.560 Like I can see saying, all these people out here 0:44:22.719 --> 0:44:26.759 need good information and it's probably not going to just 0:44:26.800 --> 0:44:29.480 get out there on its own if we the government 0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:31.759 don't step in and say here's how we need to 0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:34.840 get good information out. And I think the current media 0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:39.040 landscape is just complete proof positive of that that if 0:44:39.080 --> 0:44:41.080 you just don't, if you just let it all go 0:44:41.200 --> 0:44:44.520 free for all, then then you end up with what 0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:46.799 we have, that this is what the market offers us 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:52.160 echo chambers, echo chambers, polarization, and a huge division in 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:56.680 the country without anybody saying well wait, wait, wait, yes, 0:44:57.000 --> 0:44:59.960 over here, you guys are right over here. You guys 0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:03.240 are right and things are really messed up. But also, 0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.680 what about this other stuff? We kind of all agree 0:45:05.719 --> 0:45:07.520 on this part, and what about this part. Yeah, we 0:45:07.560 --> 0:45:10.000 have a lot of common ground here. No one's talking 0:45:10.040 --> 0:45:11.960 about that, and that used to be the role that 0:45:12.000 --> 0:45:13.320 the media played before. 0:45:13.840 --> 0:45:15.800 Yeah, I mean, one thing we can say is without 0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:19.840 the fairness doctrine, we may not have gotten any of 0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:23.320 these minority viewpoints. In the nineteen forties and fifties and sixties, 0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:26.839 people might not have been as well informed except maybe 0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:30.120 via newspaper about the civil rights movement, women's rights movement, 0:45:31.280 --> 0:45:35.359 how bad smoking is, about nuclear power plants, like, all 0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:37.480 of these things that were sort of in the shadows 0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:42.759 were now now had a guaranteed platform. But like we 0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:46.399 mentioned earlier, because they didn't really they had to give 0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:50.200 these opposing viewpoints. He also could have possibly borne the 0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:53.880 anti vacs movement and the climate denial movement and stuff 0:45:53.920 --> 0:45:54.200 like that. 0:45:54.320 --> 0:45:56.840 So it was flawed, to be sure. 0:45:57.160 --> 0:46:03.560 Sure, Yeah, there's from what I understand, any democrat to 0:46:03.640 --> 0:46:08.319 the right of Ralph Nader, which is almost everybody says, yes, 0:46:08.360 --> 0:46:09.920 fairness doctrine, what a terrible idea. 0:46:10.000 --> 0:46:10.560 Terrible idea. 0:46:10.719 --> 0:46:13.759 It was officially repealed in twenty eleven, and if you'll 0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:16.600 think back, that was under the Obama administration. So the 0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:20.799 Obama administration's FCC was the one that officially took the 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:23.680 fairness doctrine off of the books, removed it. 0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:26.200 Yeah, but I mean that was a purge. That was 0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:28.680 just like there's a bunch of rotten food in the fridge, 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:30.040 and why has no one thrown it out yet? 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:32.520 Yeah, but it was also pretty symbolic. You know, it 0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:35.440 was a symbolic act, whether they intended it or not. 0:46:36.000 --> 0:46:39.839 But the idea that it was it was removed by 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:46.160 a democratic, lefty president's administration is it's I don't know, 0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:47.479 it's saying something I think. 0:46:47.880 --> 0:46:49.640 Yeah, here's where we are today. 0:46:49.680 --> 0:46:52.520 Though there was a poll, a Gallop polling just last 0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:57.720 year in twenty eighteen that's found Americans don't trust the news. 0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:03.239 They guess, let me see, sixty two percent of what 0:47:03.320 --> 0:47:07.920 they hear is biased, forty four percent is inaccurate, and 0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:09.640 thirty nine percent is misinformation. 0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:13.480 That's those numbers seem low to me. 0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:16.359 That's not a great place to be in as a country. Though. 0:47:16.640 --> 0:47:18.840 No, it's a terrible place. It's a scary place, Like, 0:47:18.880 --> 0:47:20.719 how is this country still together, you know. 0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:22.160 Yeah. 0:47:22.239 --> 0:47:24.319 But and the other thing is we're going to get 0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:26.759 so much guff because we didn't come out and just 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:30.319 stay completely down the middle. But I mean, I want 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:33.200 to say, like I understand where people on the right 0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:38.200 are coming from with this, Like ideologically, this is censorship 0:47:38.320 --> 0:47:43.239 and the prohibition of the exercise of free speech, and 0:47:43.760 --> 0:47:49.440 that is one of that is a core founding value 0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:53.480 of conservativism and libertarianism. So like I can understand how 0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:55.279 you look at the fairness doctrine and be like, this 0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:58.920 is government overreach and it's worst and its worst examples, 0:47:58.960 --> 0:47:59.160 you know. 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:03.319 Yeah, But it's like it wasn't it wasn't like state 0:48:03.440 --> 0:48:06.960 run radio, you know. No, it wasn't like the government, 0:48:07.000 --> 0:48:09.560 the federal government propagandizing their agenda. 0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:10.200 Right. 0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:14.000 But yeah, it was saying like, hey, you can say 0:48:14.000 --> 0:48:16.480 this viewpoint, you also have to show the other viewpoint. 0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:18.799 To me, that's almost impossible to argue with. 0:48:19.040 --> 0:48:20.920 Yeah, And I think newspapers of. 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:26.480 High standing still on their editorial page kind of print 0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:29.120 the two opposing opinions side by side. 0:48:29.239 --> 0:48:31.960 Yeah, that's what op ed stands for, is opposite the 0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:35.360 editorial page. So the editorial page will be the newspaper's 0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:39.840 opinion their editorial board, and then on the literal opposite 0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:43.560 page is the basically the opposing pinion of that. Yeah, 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:47.239 it's just a high journalistic standard. But this is the 0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:51.360 government saying this. Newspapers do this on their own, I guess, 0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:55.160 just out of tradition, whereas electronic media is a little 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:56.680 more wild westy than that. 0:48:56.680 --> 0:49:00.200 That's right. So here we are today. 0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:04.760 Pretty interesting times we live in, and it's all because 0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:07.799 the fairness doctrine went away. Anyway, thanks for listening to 0:49:07.800 --> 0:49:08.880 this episode of stuff. 0:49:08.920 --> 0:49:09.400 You should know. 0:49:10.680 --> 0:49:12.640 If you want to know more about the fairness doctrine, 0:49:12.719 --> 0:49:16.959 just go outside see how you like things. And since 0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:18.520 I said that, it's time for listener. 0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:23.920 Mail, I'm going to call this the sound of our voices. 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:26.880 All I'm sorry, let me say this the color of 0:49:26.920 --> 0:49:27.480 our voices. 0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:30.040 Oh yeah, I know what my voice is. Color. This 0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:31.880 is good. In fact, yours isn't even color. This is 0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:32.719 more of a field thing. 0:49:33.160 --> 0:49:36.480 Okay, So hey, guys, I listened to the episode on 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:39.520 perfect pitch. You mentioned that cinistets are often good candidates 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:43.080 for having perfect pitch. I fall into the category of 0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:46.239 being someone who possesses both. I've been serious about my 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:49.839 musicianship since my earliest recollections of life. And that's when 0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:54.080 I began involuntarily hearing all the individual musical notes and 0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:57.120 their own unique, unchanging colors. For example, the sound of 0:49:57.160 --> 0:50:00.359 the note F. I should have brought in, Dude, I've 0:50:00.400 --> 0:50:02.799 bought one of those little what do you call it? 0:50:02.880 --> 0:50:05.759 Pitch pipe? I bought a pitch pipe. Why didn't you 0:50:05.800 --> 0:50:06.279 bring it in? 0:50:06.400 --> 0:50:08.560 No, I should have brought it in. The one note harmonica, 0:50:08.680 --> 0:50:09.359 I should have bought two. 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:10.520 I'm going to buy you one. 0:50:10.840 --> 0:50:13.040 I would love it. Can you have it engraved too? 0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:15.000 Sure? Okay? 0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:20.680 So the sound of F for Alison has never not 0:50:20.800 --> 0:50:22.960 caused a rush of the color orange to sweep over 0:50:23.000 --> 0:50:26.080 her from head to foot. I also hear people's individual 0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:29.960 voices and colors. What's unique about voices to me? They're 0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:35.160 incredibly textured in and of themselves. You guys have voice 0:50:35.320 --> 0:50:36.480 colors and textures. 0:50:36.760 --> 0:50:38.120 I love mine, read mine. 0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:38.760 Josh's voice. 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:44.760 Anytime I hear it sounds like suede. If Swede Swede 0:50:44.760 --> 0:50:47.680 could make a sound painted medium to dark brown with 0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:50.320 a tiny hint of easter egg purple, that's your voice. 0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:52.520 That is a lovely combo. If you ask me. 0:50:53.000 --> 0:50:55.960 Chuck's voice, on the other hand, has zero fuzzed to 0:50:56.000 --> 0:50:59.920 it at all. Chuck's voice is very, very metallic, almost shimmery, 0:51:00.560 --> 0:51:02.759 like you're gazing upon a deep blue green body of 0:51:02.800 --> 0:51:04.480 water and you can see straight to the bottom. 0:51:04.840 --> 0:51:05.160 Nice. 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:06.600 That's a nice voice right there. 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:09.759 Check. These are both great voices. Yeah, I'm very happy that. 0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:12.719 I mean, who knows what could have come out of 0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:13.400 this email. 0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:18.200 You here's like a puke and yours sounds like nails 0:51:18.239 --> 0:51:18.960 on a chalkboard. 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:22.600 The end, I've come to find out that no two 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:24.840 voice colors are exactly the same, kind of like thumbprints 0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:27.800 and snowflakes. A person's voice color does not morph into 0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:30.719 something else either if they suddenly start speaking in another language, 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:33.200 And it also has nothing to do with his or 0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:38.520 her particular personality type. So they're not saying you're smooth 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:39.640 like suede on like. 0:51:39.640 --> 0:51:40.200 As a person. 0:51:40.280 --> 0:51:43.000 Oh yes, clearly, I think that I'm a shimmery as 0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:43.480 a person. 0:51:44.600 --> 0:51:46.239 The point of the matter, I delight in hearing both 0:51:46.280 --> 0:51:47.520 of your voices nearly every day. 0:51:47.640 --> 0:51:48.600 Is a tune. End of the show. 0:51:48.840 --> 0:51:51.080 It's become a staple in my daily existence. Keep on 0:51:51.160 --> 0:51:54.120 being wonderful. That is from Alison, who is at our 0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:57.800 Salt Lake City show. She interacted with us from the crowd. 0:51:58.200 --> 0:52:00.920 That's great. Thank you for interacting with Alison. 0:52:01.000 --> 0:52:04.080 We appreciate that it's illegal at our shows, but she 0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:06.319 goes I think I asked a question and she answered it. 0:52:06.640 --> 0:52:10.920 It's against the rules, that's what they say. Well, thanks Alison. 0:52:10.960 --> 0:52:13.840 That was one of the more interesting emails we've ever received. Frankly, 0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:17.239 if you want to be like Alison and go to 0:52:17.280 --> 0:52:19.799 one of our live shows, you will never regret it 0:52:19.880 --> 0:52:22.880 for a single moment in your entire life. And if 0:52:22.920 --> 0:52:24.600 you want to get in touch with us like Alison 0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:27.720 did too, you can go onto our website, stuff youshould 0:52:27.760 --> 0:52:30.799 Know dot com, follow our social links there, or you 0:52:30.840 --> 0:52:33.640 can send us an email send it off to stuff 0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:37.560 Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. 0:52:39.360 --> 0:52:41.680 Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:45.360 For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:48.480 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.