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Speaker 1: Podcast plead. Welcome to taking a walk an excursion to converse,

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Speaker 1: connect and catch up at a cool location with some

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Speaker 1: of the most interesting people you can find. Hi. This

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Speaker 1: is Dan Shaughnessy, the Boston Globe, author of Wish It

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Speaker 1: Lasted Forever Life with the Larry Bird Celtics, and I'm

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Speaker 1: taking a walk this morning with Buzz Night here in

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Speaker 1: my Newton, Massachusetts neighborhood. Well, Dan, it's so great to

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Speaker 1: actually see you, guys. I don't have to use the

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Speaker 1: air quote to see you on a zoom or some that, right,

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Speaker 1: It's so nice to see you. I haven't seen you

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Speaker 1: in a long time. Well, we had some history here,

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Speaker 1: Buzz got you hired me to do some radio a

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Speaker 1: million years ago. Remember I know I was doing it

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Speaker 1: in ninety three the day Reggie Lewis died because I

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Speaker 1: was in Nagg'shead, North Carolina, and I remember calling you

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Speaker 1: or calling the station with the report that I had,

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Speaker 1: And so that's pretty far back. And then, of course,

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Speaker 1: more recently in the old TKK days at whatever they

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Speaker 1: call that building now, I don't know it's head multiple

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Speaker 1: incarnations of radio stations, but used to see in the

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Speaker 1: carters there as well. But it's good to see again.

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Speaker 1: Bus Yeah, we'd pass I think on the traditional air

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Speaker 1: talent bathroom break right, was definitely happening, you know. And

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Speaker 1: we have a mutual friend, of course, and Hank Morris

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Speaker 1: has been doing doing radio in town for a million years.

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Speaker 1: And you know, everybody loves Hank and anytime you can

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Speaker 1: get together with him, it's time well spent. He knows everybody.

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Speaker 1: It's right, it's right. Well, it's so great to see you,

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Speaker 1: and it's so great to take a walk. Now, before

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Speaker 1: we get into the book. You wrote the book during

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Speaker 1: we won't even use the term whatever this last two

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Speaker 1: years was, so you wrote it during that period. Did

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Speaker 1: you ever take a walk here in the neighborhood to

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, unleash your creativity at various moments

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Speaker 1: where you were maybe a roadblock. Well, it's not a

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Speaker 1: lot of blockings for me, but I jogged this path

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Speaker 1: we're on every morning. It's just it's a mile loop.

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Speaker 1: And we bought this house in nineteen eighty eight, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I just needed to go a mile.

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Speaker 1: And I've been doing one mile a day since nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty three, so that's almost forty years. It's incredibly slow,

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Speaker 1: a slog the kids walking to school of blasted by

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Speaker 1: me now, But I love this neighborhood for it, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's my little canyon of heroes back here.

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Speaker 1: And it's just been you know, most of the people

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Speaker 1: in these houses I know, or I knew who was

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Speaker 1: there before, or children grew up, and other people have

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Speaker 1: come and bought houses in the neighborhood, people we knew

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Speaker 1: from other lives, and it's just been a great landing

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Speaker 1: spot here for oh my god, since like I said,

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Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty eight, so coming up on thirty three,

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Speaker 1: thirty four years, well, it's beautiful, it really is. So

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Speaker 1: the book is amazing, congratulations, and it represents this period

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Speaker 1: in time that so certainly speaks to so many people,

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Speaker 1: speaks to me. I was not living up here during

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Speaker 1: that period. My wife and I lived in Connecticut and

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Speaker 1: we regularly would race up I eighty four and come

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Speaker 1: to Celtic games just in the last minute. Notice there

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Speaker 1: was this tremendous record guy worked for Geffen, he just

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Speaker 1: passed away recently, named Al Perry. I would call up

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Speaker 1: to I got some tickets and we'd come up and

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Speaker 1: then we were the fanboy and girl who went to

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Speaker 1: Scotch and Sir Lione after So you paint so many

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Speaker 1: pictures that just, you know, come roaring back memory wise.

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Speaker 1: And when I really think of the the subtexts of

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Speaker 1: it all and other maybe subtitles around the book, because

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Speaker 1: the book title is magnificent, but I also think of them,

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Speaker 1: and you make mention in the book I think of

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Speaker 1: glory days. When I think of that era in your book,

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Speaker 1: I think of it doesn't get any better than this, right,

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Speaker 1: And I guess I think in a little bit about

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Speaker 1: beer drinkers and hill raisers. Yeah, we had all of that,

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Speaker 1: you know. And Bill Walton actually named the book is.

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Speaker 1: When I interviewed Bill, he was he just talks about

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Speaker 1: this period so finally and his quotes just jump off

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Speaker 1: the page. But he said, he said, when you do

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Speaker 1: this book, he said, empty the resource. You can say

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Speaker 1: whatever you want. You cannot overstate how great this was.

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Speaker 1: He started talking about the toll takers and the mass

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Speaker 1: Pike and park, a lot of tenants at the garden,

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Speaker 1: him having his four boys in Cambridge and just what

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Speaker 1: a what a thrill it was to be here in

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Speaker 1: that time. And as you referenced, the Celtics were. They

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Speaker 1: were must see TV then and impossible ticket. You did

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Speaker 1: well to score those tickets occasionally to come up because

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Speaker 1: they sold out every game. I think it got to

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Speaker 1: like six hundred and sixty, but kind of started with

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Speaker 1: Larry coming to town in the Big turnaround seventy nine

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Speaker 1: to eighty and I came on the beat eighty two

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Speaker 1: eighty three. It was his fourth season, and then he

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Speaker 1: was MVP the next three years that I did the beat,

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Speaker 1: So they got to see the best basketball ever played,

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Speaker 1: and that was sort of one of the motivations for

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Speaker 1: putting this in. I mean, everybody already knows who won

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Speaker 1: and who's in the Hall of Fame and what the

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Speaker 1: stats are, and there's no attempt here to replay game

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Speaker 1: by game and the stuff that's been well told in

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Speaker 1: many other books and volumes. But this was sort of

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Speaker 1: a love letter to an earlier time when the NBA

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Speaker 1: was smaller and you had this rare collection of talent

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Speaker 1: and egos and friendship attitude, and they they really worked

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Speaker 1: well together and even the practices were joyous. They had

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Speaker 1: an uncanny and unusual security of their own greatness. You

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Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of internal competition or pettiness or

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Speaker 1: comparing who's making more, who's getting more shots. It was

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Speaker 1: really the collective. It's just a rare thing. You don't

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Speaker 1: see that a lot in professional sports. And these guys

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Speaker 1: are like myself in their mid late sixties now and

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Speaker 1: coming grandfathers and you know, qualifying for Medicare and Social

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Speaker 1: Security and whatnot. And I know I talked to several

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Speaker 1: of them. There's this lovely passages with McHale will just

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Speaker 1: say when I see any of those guys, just visceral

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Speaker 1: response just lights me up. And they have these nicknames

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Speaker 1: they share, and I think, like any group, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a sports team where maybe if you're in the military

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Speaker 1: or certainly your college dorm, just the time in your

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Speaker 1: life when you're young and everything's great and everything's ahead

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Speaker 1: of you. And I think when they see each other

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Speaker 1: it reminds them of that and it's a good time.

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Speaker 1: So this is all in there, and just the interactions

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Speaker 1: with each other and my interactions with them because I

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Speaker 1: was a wise ass, you know, not to be trusted reporter,

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Speaker 1: and that that lent a certain edge to it too.

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Speaker 1: So books a lot of fun, it really is. And

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Speaker 1: did you find yourself thinking about you know, all of

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Speaker 1: that period that did you realize how special it was

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Speaker 1: when it was happening. That's a really good question, Buzz

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Speaker 1: and I. You know, one of the things that's come

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Speaker 1: out is no. And it's one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: motivated me to do it because during the early days

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Speaker 1: of the pandemic, when there was no games, there shows

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Speaker 1: and showing a lot of the of course the Last

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Speaker 1: Dance everybody watched, and then locally they were showing selfish

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Speaker 1: classics of the eighties, and I kept seeing my young

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Speaker 1: self sitting at the press table back in the days

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Speaker 1: in the lowly media was allowed to sit right down

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Speaker 1: next to the bench because they weren't selling those for

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. They didn't figured it out yet, and

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Speaker 1: we were still essential to what the enterprise was. So

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Speaker 1: when I was doing it, I was head down and

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Speaker 1: being a tough guy and reporting and breaking stories and

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Speaker 1: not caring about who liked me or didn't. And it

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Speaker 1: created some tensions and it wasn't as much fun, and

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Speaker 1: it was a busy time in life. You know, we

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Speaker 1: were starting a family, like most of the players were

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Speaker 1: starting families, and so you had little kids, and moving houses,

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Speaker 1: and that came down to my wife way more and

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Speaker 1: she did a great job holding it together because I

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Speaker 1: was just gone so much. But so the answer to

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Speaker 1: a great question is no, I wish I had watched

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Speaker 1: the basketball a little bit more. And that's what seeing

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Speaker 1: that videos reminded me of. And and to your other

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Speaker 1: question about walking around, you know, i'd you know, during

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Speaker 1: my morning jog or walking the neighborhood with the dogs,

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Speaker 1: we're just going out in the driveway and shooting baskets,

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Speaker 1: you know, very much therapeutic about you know, getting older

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Speaker 1: and what it was like at that time when and

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Speaker 1: Robert Parris and DJ and we were all young. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think finally of it, and I'm glad to have

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Speaker 1: the book with it now. Yeah, well, I think about

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Speaker 1: it from the perspective of other scenarios in my life,

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Speaker 1: and then of course this period that we're talking about

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Speaker 1: that the book's about in my life, and you really

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Speaker 1: don't when you're in the moment, certainly appreciated. And it

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Speaker 1: does teach you, you know, at this time in our

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Speaker 1: lives that you do have to, you know, find appreciation

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Speaker 1: for what you have and being in the moment and

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Speaker 1: that's the essence for me around certainly taking a walk

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Speaker 1: and this podcast, because you know, mindfulness and being in

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Speaker 1: the moment is a pretty important thing as well. Now

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Speaker 1: do you believe there's any chance whatsoever that that period

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Speaker 1: of time in the NBA could ever be replicated, No, sir,

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons for the book, because

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Speaker 1: again it's evolution. Nobody's I don't enjoy watching the games

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Speaker 1: now as much as I did then. I don't think

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Speaker 1: the balls is good. But you know, folks watching in

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Speaker 1: the eighties didn't think the ball was as good as

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Speaker 1: it was in the fifties, so that evolves. I understand that,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. This is a You just look

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Speaker 1: at the passing and the creativity that they had. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was rare, and I think that not to be replicated,

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Speaker 1: and you're not going to have another Larry Bird come along.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Luca Dant did pretty good. There's some guys,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. And that time in Boston, you know,

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Speaker 1: people weren't on their cell phones all the time, and

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Speaker 1: you know there was certainly can't replicate the old garden,

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Speaker 1: not that you'd want to on the hot days or

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Speaker 1: the cold days. It was really hot in there in

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Speaker 1: the spring time. That was part of the story. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're sweating all over each other, and Kareem Abdul Jabbar

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Speaker 1: wearing an oxygen mask on the bench during the finals,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you're just not going to have that

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Speaker 1: need more. So things evolve, and I'll tell you that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the newspapers are not important now the way

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Speaker 1: they were. We're not in no seats anymore. The access

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Speaker 1: has dwindled to almost nothing, which was a big motivator

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Speaker 1: for this book. When they resumed playing at the COVID

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Speaker 1: Bubble in Orlando in twenty twenty, anybody who covered had

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Speaker 1: to sign a waiver still playing. They would not approach

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Speaker 1: any athlete or coach if they saw them away from

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Speaker 1: the gym. And that's where we did our best work

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Speaker 1: because we literally lived with them. We were like we

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Speaker 1: didn't have the fame or the money or the groupies,

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Speaker 1: but we were like on the team. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: were in the buses going to practice, no close practices.

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Speaker 1: We stayed in the same hotels, include commercial, same planes,

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Speaker 1: and we just were part of their traveling group. And

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Speaker 1: not everybody liked it, but we got along because you've learned,

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Speaker 1: have to learn how to get along, and it gave

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Speaker 1: us tremendous access and the ability to tell the readers

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Speaker 1: the fans what these guys are like. Now, that's that's

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Speaker 1: not coming back. When today today's reporters, they can't tell

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Speaker 1: you what Jalen Brown or Marcus Smarter or Jason Tatum

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Speaker 1: are really like. And we don't know if they don't

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Speaker 1: like the coach, or why they're having difficulties, or why

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Speaker 1: Brad Stevens had to step away. It's just nobody's fault.

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Speaker 1: It's the way it's evolved with the kid. The people

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Speaker 1: reporting today do not have the access that we had

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Speaker 1: to tell you first few chapters of the book, there's

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Speaker 1: trouble in Dodge with Bill Fitch. You know he had

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Speaker 1: worn out as welcome and had to go. Well, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make anybody a bad guy, but it was very apparent.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm there when the video machine breaks in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta and they're dancing around so happy I don't have

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Speaker 1: to watch video again. And you know, you could tell

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Speaker 1: the readers when these guys have kind of had it

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Speaker 1: with the video and just things would happen, and again

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Speaker 1: we got to know you know if Larry'd get mad

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Speaker 1: at McHale wasn't getting the ball. Larry, tell you off

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Speaker 1: to the side, and he's not working to get to

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Speaker 1: a spot tonight. I mean, dj' dribble over in mid game.

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Speaker 1: Tell Bob Ryan to pipe down. He's being too loud

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Speaker 1: talking about Larry. So it was a very intimate, great proximity,

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Speaker 1: great access, and that'll never be replicated. And I had

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Speaker 1: heard the story which you tell in the book about

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Speaker 1: the basketball competition with Larry, but you go into this

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Speaker 1: tremendous detail of it and it feels like you're there

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Speaker 1: and then the moment, I mean, what a spectacular Could

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Speaker 1: you ever imagine a guy like you just being in

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Speaker 1: that position. Well, I was a really good free throw

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Speaker 1: shooter in high school, but I was a bench guy.

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Speaker 1: I didn't play. You know, I've made varsity, but that

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Speaker 1: was it. Never played. I could make those free throws.

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed talking about basketball with Larry because he was

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Speaker 1: so great at it, and he was from a small

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Speaker 1: town and it was just things I could relate to.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't as poor a said either, but I wasn't

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Speaker 1: six ' nine. That wasn't a lot of things he

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Speaker 1: was so, but we were around the same age and

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Speaker 1: grew up in the small towns and loved basketball, so

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Speaker 1: that was that was okay to talk about. And he

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Speaker 1: liked to take everybody's money. That was just kind of

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Speaker 1: his thing. He never lost that because he grew up

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Speaker 1: poor and that hunger really helped make him great, I believe.

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Speaker 1: So you'd walk into the gym they practiced, a little

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Speaker 1: Greek Orthodox College and Brookline Hellenic College. Oh but he

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Speaker 1: could find it where he read, wanted it and nobody

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Speaker 1: bothered him. But you walk into the little gym, and

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Speaker 1: wherever he was standing, he'd say, shoot for money. And

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Speaker 1: then that meant wherever he was if he turned and

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Speaker 1: made it, you owed him a dollar. He missed it,

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Speaker 1: he owed you a dollar. So a lot of dollars

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Speaker 1: changed hands, mostly us giving him to him off that.

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Speaker 1: And then one day he was playing with tape in

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Speaker 1: his hand in practice. I challenged if he could do

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Speaker 1: that in the game the next night. Didn't seem likely,

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Speaker 1: so he went right into his pool hustler overdrive. He'd

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Speaker 1: clearly done this before. He said, I could take my

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Speaker 1: whole hand and make more shots than you, Scoop, And

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Speaker 1: then he wouldn't let it go, and he said, no,

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Speaker 1: we're going to do this five dollars a throw, one

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Speaker 1: hundred free throws, ten at a time, rebound for each other.

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Speaker 1: You want to go first, or I'll go first, and

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Speaker 1: they said I'll go first. He said, you don't like

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Speaker 1: the pressure to do well, You're right, But his hand

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Speaker 1: was taped up like a boxing glove. He had no fingers,

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Speaker 1: no thumbs, just balled up, so I knew he'd have

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Speaker 1: to shot put him. We both made like six in

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Speaker 1: the first round, and I'm feeling pretty good. And then

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Speaker 1: around the second third round, he said, I got this

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Speaker 1: figured out, and he did, and I just was not

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Speaker 1: even moving as I rebounded. You make after make and

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Speaker 1: just swish through the net. And now I'm choking. I'm

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Speaker 1: going out there seeing five dollar bills flying through the

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Speaker 1: air every time I let go on. And I tried

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Speaker 1: to get a buy out at midway point, but he

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Speaker 1: wanted extra money for that, so I ended up losing

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty. And to this day, if you

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Speaker 1: bump into Larry Bird you ask him how much money

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Speaker 1: to take off scoop in nineteen eighty five, He'll say

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Speaker 1: I got one hundred and sixty dollars in my pocket.

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Speaker 1: He never forgot the number. I kind of admire that.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. Now, did you try to contact him for

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Speaker 1: the book? I tried to everybody who was living except

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Speaker 1: for Robert Parrish. You never talked to me, so I

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Speaker 1: was understood I wasn't going to try and contact him,

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Speaker 1: and Larry, I think, was the only one who didn't

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Speaker 1: get I had told the publisher he's probably not going

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Speaker 1: to do this, because I'm aware he's kind of turned

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Speaker 1: off the faucets. He's done, and I knew that Cedric

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Speaker 1: Maxwell couldn't get him to help with his book, and

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Speaker 1: Bob Ryan and Jackie McMullen, both of whom are in

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Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame, both of whom did buyographies with

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Speaker 1: Larry partners with him staying at his house while they

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Speaker 1: did him. They weren't getting callbacks. So he's not gonna

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Speaker 1: calm heaback. So I went through all the proper channels,

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Speaker 1: and he was certainly aware it was happening, had heavy opportunity,

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Speaker 1: but frankly he wouldn't have amplified it much anyway. Larry's

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Speaker 1: not particularly introspective. I have so much from him from

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Speaker 1: back in the day, and it's good private stuff and

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Speaker 1: a lot of it for the first time, and you

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Speaker 1: really get to know him. He's the most dominant voice

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Speaker 1: in the book, although Cedric Maxwell is probably the funniest

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Speaker 1: and Bill Walton the most passionate. McHale. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: have a lot of good voices in there, and it

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Speaker 1: was fun to get new stuff from some of the guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, thirty five thirty seven years later. Jerry Henderson

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Speaker 1: was He's pretty outrageous in it. You'll see he's still

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Speaker 1: mad about getting traded. And then Len Bias coming in

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Speaker 1: and Jerry has a epic quote in one of those things.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a book title chapter. But anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so Hilarry, I respect that he gave us his game

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Speaker 1: and that's enough. Well, there is in the book too.

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Speaker 1: There's so much, you know, to your point, there's conflict

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Speaker 1: that goes on without question, and there's certainly, you know,

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Speaker 1: some anger over some things, and it's still some anger,

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Speaker 1: like you said, you know to this day. But the

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Speaker 1: book is so much about joy and the joy of

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Speaker 1: collaboration and team and winning and you know, busting chops

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Speaker 1: and just the whole package. Right, Well, thank you boys.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're aiming for. And it's a fun book

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Speaker 1: and it's a quick book. I've had people like they say,

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Speaker 1: I wish the book lasts in forever. I wish you know,

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Speaker 1: it's too short. I was trying to make sure it

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Speaker 1: wasn't too long because people's attention spans for a little

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Speaker 1: bit farse now, but I think he came in around

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty pages whatnot. But yeah, joy is

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Speaker 1: a good word. Fun and joy and just oh you

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Speaker 1: like our leave blowers in the neighborhood. That's a first

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Speaker 1: see any of those, dude. But so yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that that's a good takeaway and that's the experience that

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Speaker 1: I want people to have because everybody has so much

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Speaker 1: joy watching it. And that's been in short supply last

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Speaker 1: year too, so it's a chance to have a few laughs.

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Speaker 1: And it's nostalgia. It's a time machine way back all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. But there's a lot to be the gain

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Speaker 1: and learned and it kind of gives you a warm,

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Speaker 1: fuzzy feel without a question. Well so last question. So

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Speaker 1: when you got taken off the Celtics beat and then

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Speaker 1: put on the Red Sox beat, the sense I got

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Speaker 1: was that was a bit of a disappointment. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: had the option, and but I'll tell you against the

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Speaker 1: Red Sox, you know, but you know, truly and as

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Speaker 1: popular as the Celtics were, and as much as everybody

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Speaker 1: loves Larry when you were a reporter of the Boston

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Speaker 1: Globe in the mid eighties, that was a no brainer.

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Speaker 1: I had done five years of Major League ball Baltimore

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Speaker 1: and Washington, and in Boston it was still the sport.

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Speaker 1: It was, never goes out of season, never goes out

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Speaker 1: of style. When the Celtic beat, frankly became kind of

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Speaker 1: not as much fun pretty quickly after I left, you know,

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Speaker 1: biased dies, and they started they traded Danny Ainge, and

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Speaker 1: I retired ninety two and went away fast. They didn't

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Speaker 1: win anything till two thousand and eight. But the Socks

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Speaker 1: I got right on that eighty six team, which was

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Speaker 1: the Bill Buckner year. They almost won the World Series,

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Speaker 1: and I wrote the Curse of Banmino and subsequent baseball books.

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Speaker 1: Got to be there for the great Ride of three

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Speaker 1: to four biblical greatest story ever told. But it's a

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Speaker 1: different you know, I mean, in the moment, it was

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Speaker 1: certainly a step down in terms of how much fun

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Speaker 1: you were having and how much harder baseball was because

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Speaker 1: the guys just aren't as nice. Frankly, were secure. And

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Speaker 1: bruce Hurst delivers a tremendous couple of pages on that

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Speaker 1: he's a pitcher for the Socks when he was and

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Speaker 1: he's friend. He knew all the Celtics, and he'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: He'll say, yeah, we weren't like them. We weren't secure,

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Speaker 1: we were competitive, We harbored bitterness toward each other. I

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Speaker 1: saw it all, and it was very hard to go

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Speaker 1: from this team of confidence and joy and security to

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Speaker 1: this team of insecurity. Bickering, backbiting, just not good. But

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Speaker 1: to get on MLB, you had to do it. I

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Speaker 1: was replacing Peter Gammon's a legend, and that's when I

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Speaker 1: got to start writing books. Because you want to write

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Speaker 1: about a book about the Red Sox, then everybody say,

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Speaker 1: bring it on, and to this day they still do.

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Speaker 1: So it was a good career move, as weird as

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Speaker 1: it sounds. But it was hard to walk away from

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Speaker 1: the greatest team of all time. But I had done

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Speaker 1: my job and I took it on home and left

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Speaker 1: him to win that championship, which they did easily well,

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Speaker 1: and congratulations on continuing to do your job, continuing to

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Speaker 1: do great work for the passionate fans of Boston and

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Speaker 1: New England. And congratulations on this treasure of a new book. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Buss. It's been nice walking around the New

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Speaker 1: Neighborhood with you and I wish you the best of

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Speaker 1: the podcasts. Thank you Dan. Taking a Walk with Buzz

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Speaker 1: Night available on Spotify, iTunes, and wherever podcasts are available.