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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, we are back on normally the show with

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Speaker 1: normalish takes, but when the news gets weird. I am

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Speaker 1: Mary Catherine hamp.

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Speaker 2: Ma'm Carol Marcus and Mary Catherine. How's it going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's been a sad week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We were in Mexico City for the weekend, a trip

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Speaker 3: that we had planned for about a year. We got

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Speaker 3: tickets to see Oasis with the kids, and we almost canceled,

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Speaker 3: and we didn't just because we didn't want to disappoint

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Speaker 3: the kids. But I've just been I mean devastated, obviously.

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Speaker 2: Really really out of it.

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Speaker 3: And I have to say that my very normy, not

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Speaker 3: into politics, not super online husband has also been like that,

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Speaker 3: and we just have both been so sad and trying

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Speaker 3: to reflect and be optimistic for the kids.

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Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, it was. It's a very hard thing to see.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even if you didn't see it, just for

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Speaker 1: it to have happened at all, For a friend and

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Speaker 1: colleague to be gunned down for doing the thing that

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Speaker 1: we love to do. Yeah that And I don't mean

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Speaker 1: to make it about me, but it's very hard to

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Speaker 1: watch this thing that I love that I think is

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Speaker 1: very healing talking to people who believe differently. For you,

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Speaker 1: I grew up with all people who disagree with me

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Speaker 1: same and I have always engaged with them in civil

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Speaker 1: and almost all the time kind ways. Like I'm sure

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Speaker 1: I've misstepped here and there, but like, I think that's

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Speaker 1: what matters. I think that's what changes minds. I think

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Speaker 1: that's what works to save entire civilizations. And to have

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Speaker 1: that be the thing that is attacked in addition to

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Speaker 1: a human that I knew, is yeah, devastating.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to recover from.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna do a whole episode on the Charlie Kirk murder.

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Speaker 3: We're going to take it from three different perspectives. We're

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Speaker 3: going to do the future of the country, the future

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Speaker 3: of the conservative movement, and then had a parent in

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Speaker 3: the wake of this, we should do differently what we

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Speaker 3: do well now, that kind of thing. So let's get

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Speaker 3: into it.

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Speaker 2: Future of the country.

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Speaker 3: I felt like we were in a very optimistic place

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Speaker 3: for the last almost year. I have to tell you

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Speaker 3: that it was from the Donald Trump reelection.

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Speaker 2: I have felt like we.

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Speaker 3: Were recovering in so many ways that I really did

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Speaker 3: feel good about where we were going, and I understood

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Speaker 3: that not everybody agreed with everything he was doing, and

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Speaker 3: obviously I don't agree with every single thing.

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Speaker 2: Even though I hate to say stuff like that, in

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Speaker 2: this moment, I hate the I didn't agree with everything.

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Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to, you don't have to.

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Speaker 3: It makes no sense to agree with everything. I don't

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Speaker 3: agree with everything you say. I feel like we largely agree,

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Speaker 3: but like you know, it just we're different people and

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Speaker 3: that's okay. But you know, I have felt very good

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Speaker 3: about a lot of things in the last year, and

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Speaker 3: this has it's shaken that a little bit. It's shaken

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Speaker 3: that where I am afraid of, not just where I

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Speaker 3: think the left is. I'm afraid of kind of normal people,

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Speaker 3: the doctors and the nurses and the teachers and the

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Speaker 3: accountants who have been fired in the wake of saying

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Speaker 3: truly despicable things online about Charlie Kirk's murder. I'm afraid

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Speaker 3: that these people live among us, and they hate us.

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Speaker 2: And want us dead. And like you said, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, you and I grew up in places where people

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Speaker 3: largely disagreed with us, and I thought that we could

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Speaker 3: just do that in a kind, respectful fashion.

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Speaker 2: And now I no longer know yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think in my personal life I have been careful

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Speaker 1: for the past I would say ten years or so

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Speaker 1: about what organizations I associate my family with, keeping my

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Speaker 1: job sort of hush hush when I'm entering a new

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Speaker 1: space at schools, at kid activities, when I'm seeking medical care. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of my friends on the left

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Speaker 1: would tell me that's crazy, that's that's paranoid. Why would

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Speaker 1: you do that. I don't think it feels that paranoid.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't, and it does worry me that someone would

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Speaker 1: take their feelings about my beliefs out on my family

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Speaker 1: and on services that we need. If you are in

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Speaker 1: a position of public trust and you are incapable of

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Speaker 1: regulating your emotions to the agree to the degree that

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Speaker 1: not only do you have the feeling that someone should

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Speaker 1: be killed for their political disagreements with you, but you

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Speaker 1: want to broadcast that I have some really serious questions.

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Speaker 1: I as some one of those serious questions. And I

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Speaker 1: am a person who has written a book about cancel

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Speaker 1: culture being bad before it had a name.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: I defended Trevor Noah, James Gunn, any number of liberals

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Speaker 1: for old bad tweets I think offensive jokes are largely

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Speaker 1: pretty good. Yeah, like all the things tweets old tweets

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be a problem. All that kinds of up. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to all dug up. I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of this stuff is something that would have been

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Speaker 1: firal before cancel culture existed.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's sort of the difference here.

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Speaker 3: It's that this isn't an uncomfortable joke you made ten

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Speaker 3: years ago. It's not something that was ever okay to

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Speaker 3: dance on someone's grave. And also just you know, the

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Speaker 3: people who think that they're being mgnanimous or something by

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Speaker 3: saying like, well, I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk on

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Speaker 3: all of these things, and they list everything they think

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Speaker 3: is terrible that he's ever said. You know, but it's

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Speaker 3: still wrong to kill him, Like you could just go

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Speaker 3: jump right ahead to it was wrong to kill him,

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Speaker 3: Like you don't have to do that. Nobody when grandma dies,

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Speaker 3: nobody's like here are all the offensive things she's ever

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Speaker 3: said at parties.

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Speaker 2: You know, they just warn grandma that's it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. And also people are allowed

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Speaker 1: to be a jerk about someone who just died, right, like,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think that's a viraable offense. I do

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Speaker 1: think of all the things we could ask most people

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Speaker 1: to agree on, agreeing as a free society with free speech,

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Speaker 1: it is not good to murder someone for that speech

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Speaker 1: is a pretty good one that we could be almost

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Speaker 1: unanimous on. Yeah, and I have been disturbed by how

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Speaker 1: many people I do not agree and to the practitioners

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Speaker 1: of the left to tell all of us that, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: now you want to do cancel culture, and they'll tell you,

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Speaker 1: they'll tell you you're doing cancel culture. And also this thing,

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Speaker 1: this problem we're seeing, doesn't exist. I'm like, no, it

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Speaker 1: does exist. It happened with Luigi Mangioni and the murder

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Speaker 1: of Brian Thompson. It's happening again. I'm less surprised because

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Speaker 1: of the sickness I saw after Brian Thompson was killed.

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Speaker 1: And it is dark.

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Speaker 2: It's dark, it really is.

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Speaker 3: And you know, so you're talking about where I feel

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Speaker 3: like you and I differ a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I think you're far kinder than me on this kind

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Speaker 2: of thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of in the place of you wanted this

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Speaker 3: cancel culture game here it is. It doesn't work if

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Speaker 3: we're the only ones getting canceled.

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Speaker 2: Yet to play like only the.

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Speaker 3: Left gets to choose who loses their job over speech

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Speaker 3: Like no, I'm sorry that that's not the way it's

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Speaker 3: going to go. And I think that the only way

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Speaker 3: this ends is if they have to live under the

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Speaker 3: consequences of their own rules. And I don't you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't see another path. The other thing, I don't

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Speaker 3: think I've heard anybody say this, but I think another

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Speaker 3: huge problem that we're facing, and this is really sort

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Speaker 3: of on the periphery of all the things we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: Everybody thinks that they're on a TV show or something

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Speaker 3: like my Facebook speed, Like you're an accountant.

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Speaker 2: Why are you issuing a statement on Charlie Kirk's death.

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Speaker 2: I just don't get it. I don't understand why you.

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Speaker 3: Think that you need to say something and why like

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Speaker 3: I get the outpouring of grief. I even understand the

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Speaker 3: I didn't agree with him, but you know, we shouldn't

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Speaker 3: kill each other, sure, but like, why are you writing

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Speaker 3: five hundred words on Charlie Kirk when this is not

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Speaker 3: your job and it's not what you do and people

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Speaker 3: don't turn to you in moments of you know, national

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Speaker 3: strife to say what is Larry the account and think

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Speaker 3: about this. I feel like people have gotten where. They

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Speaker 3: all think that they have an online brand. And speaking

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Speaker 3: of someone who has an online brand.

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Speaker 2: You don't want this. You don't want it. If it's

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Speaker 2: not your job, why do it well?

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Speaker 1: And even as people with an online brand, I didn't

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Speaker 1: make a statement, no, I'm in this, I'm in this milieu.

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Speaker 1: I'm in this work, this line of work. It is

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Speaker 1: very applicable to what I do a little too directly

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Speaker 1: applicable to what I do in a scary way. And

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Speaker 1: like you can, just like my Instagram doesn't have anything,

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Speaker 1: my Twitter has some stuff because this is what I

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Speaker 1: have capacity for, and I'm speaking about it publicly like

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Speaker 1: you just you don't have to, you don't. One thing

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Speaker 1: I hope for the future of the country is that

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Speaker 1: every I have noticed, invariably you click through or do

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Speaker 1: three seconds of research on whatever quote you come across

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Speaker 1: from Charlie Kirk. And there were plenty of things Charlie

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Speaker 1: said that I disagreed with, but invariably every quote I

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Speaker 1: come across and click through and watch it is a calm,

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Speaker 1: kind explication that treats people with like dignity, high emotional

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Speaker 1: IQ has a lot of facts at his disposal, and

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Speaker 1: in the end you go, well, this is like that's

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Speaker 1: what we're mad about. That's what we're mad.

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Speaker 2: About, right, And I hope of context, I just want to.

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Speaker 1: Say, well, that's what I'm saying. It's like you click

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Speaker 1: through on the Second Amendment quote and you get this

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Speaker 1: like incredibly smart, sensitive, nuanced with all these caveats, discussion

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Speaker 1: of what having a second Amendment is, for what it

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Speaker 1: looks like and what are the realistic dangers of that

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Speaker 1: in a free society, because he's a realistic thinker, and

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Speaker 1: I just I listen to that answer and I go,

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Speaker 1: that is that's something I would go to a campus

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Speaker 1: and say, because I am a rational thinker who is

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Speaker 1: in favor of this fundament liberty, and to have it

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Speaker 1: distorted in that way is crazy. But I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are watching the videos and are probably

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Speaker 1: surprised at what they've been told about Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 3: I hope, so I hope that they're not just relying

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Speaker 3: on social media posts by their most politically active friends

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Speaker 3: to tell them what he said and what he meant

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Speaker 3: and all of that. You know, Karen Attia, as we're recording.

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Speaker 3: This has just been fired by the Washington Post. She

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Speaker 3: completely misquoted Charlie Kirk, and this is why she was

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Speaker 3: fired over it. She quoted him as saying black women

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Speaker 3: do not have the brain pot processing power to be

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Speaker 3: taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person.

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Speaker 1: Slot.

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Speaker 2: He didn't say anything like that.

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Speaker 3: He criticized Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Sheila Jackson Lee, but

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Speaker 3: he absolutely did not.

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Speaker 2: Say black women. And it is a lie to say that.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: Pointing out individual people that he disagreed with, or even

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Speaker 3: if he said something offensive about it, does not mean

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Speaker 3: that he was blaming all black women. Are talking about

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Speaker 3: all black women, and it is a lie, and I'm

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Speaker 3: glad she was fired for that.

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Speaker 2: I think that is a fireable offense.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you've made up quotes about a public figure in

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Speaker 1: the wake of his death. That's not very journalistic. That's

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Speaker 1: another thing that bothers me about Being anti cancel culture

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Speaker 1: does not mean you paint yourself into a corner with

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Speaker 1: every legacy media a hole. Yeah, can never lose their

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Speaker 1: gajillion dollar a year cush contract, right. Matthew dowd Over

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Speaker 1: at MSNBC in our one of coverage blamed Charlie Kirk

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Speaker 1: for his own death. Okay, here, here's the thing. It's

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Speaker 1: breaking news. You have a responsibility to be responsible. Your

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Speaker 1: job is to control your emotions in public. Your job

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Speaker 1: is to give people real information and barring that, just

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Speaker 1: do no harm. To borrow a phrase from the medical community. Look,

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Speaker 1: he's not good. He's not good at that job. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would argue he's not qualified for that job if

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Speaker 1: he can't do better than that. Last campaign he won

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Speaker 1: is two thousand and six. He does nothing but block

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Speaker 1: people who disagree with him because he cannot engage in

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Speaker 1: any disagreement, and he says really nasty things that he

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Speaker 1: later has to walk back, and even MSNBC is likely enough. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at some point you're a Stephen Colbert and you're just

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Speaker 1: like you're dead weight. Man. He don't do this anymore.

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Speaker 3: We're going to take a sharp break and come right

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Speaker 3: back and talk about where the conservative movement goes after

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk. But first, it was nearly two years ago

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Speaker 3: the terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and

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Speaker 3: took two hundred and fifty people hostage. Today, it seems

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Speaker 3: as if the cries of the dead and dying have

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Speaker 3: been drowned out by shouts of anti Semitic hatred, and

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Speaker 3: the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust

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Speaker 3: has been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away, a

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Speaker 3: light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of love

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Speaker 3: and support for the people of Israel called Flags of Fellowship,

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Speaker 3: and it's organized by the Internet National Fellowship of Christians

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Speaker 3: and Jews. And on October fifth, just a few weeks away,

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Speaker 3: millions across America will prayer fully plant an Israeli flag

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Speaker 3: and honor and solidarity with the victims of October seventh,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three and their grieving families. And now you

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Speaker 3: can be part of this movement too. To get more

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Speaker 3: information about how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement,

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Speaker 3: visit Fellowship online at IFCJ dot org. That's IFCJ dot org.

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Speaker 3: More from the Charlie Kirk assassination fallout coming up.

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Speaker 1: All right, we are back on normally, okay. Future of

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Speaker 1: the country now, future of the conservative movement. Charlie built

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Speaker 1: something really big. He was a leader in a way

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Speaker 1: that I am not capable of being. It was impressive

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Speaker 1: to watch. I have spoken at a turning point events

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Speaker 1: in the past, even when, by the way, Charlie and

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Speaker 1: I were in open disagreement about things, he would have

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Speaker 1: me come speak at his organization because he liked different

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Speaker 1: voices there. It's interesting the impact that he has had

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Speaker 1: on young people. What do you think happens from here

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Speaker 1: for the conservative movement, Well.

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Speaker 3: The toughest part is appealing to the young audience. Everybody

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Speaker 3: has a podcast, you know, when I've been asked in

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Speaker 3: the last few days, like you know some who's picking

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Speaker 3: up you know the microphone and what people mean obviously

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Speaker 3: is the exchange with students, but.

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Speaker 2: The whole having a perspective. Everybody's got one.

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Speaker 3: It's the going into places where you might face opposition

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Speaker 3: and having tough conversations and doing it with a smile,

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Speaker 3: which I don't have any capacity.

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Speaker 2: For it all. Either.

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Speaker 3: I can argue with my friends, I can argue on

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Speaker 3: the internet, going and specifically having arguments. I really respected

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Speaker 3: him for that and I don't have them just I don't.

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Speaker 2: Have the same will to go do that. But I

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Speaker 2: love that he was doing it. So it's the young people.

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Speaker 3: I think that the conservative movement should be most worried

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Speaker 3: about not continuing down the path that Charlie was taking us,

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Speaker 3: because for the first time young people were voting Republican,

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Speaker 3: young men more than women.

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Speaker 2: But still both had shifted.

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Speaker 3: Right in the last you know, four or five years,

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Speaker 3: and Charlie played a huge role in that. And I

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Speaker 3: don't know exactly who comes next now. Names that I've

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Speaker 3: heard that I say a big buck no to is

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Speaker 3: Nick Fuentes. Absolutely not and and also not just absolutely not,

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Speaker 3: like stop elevating this clown. It's crazy to me that

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Speaker 3: this online degenerate who makes it.

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Speaker 1: Even good charm? There's no if you took the belief

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Speaker 1: society exactly. He's not good to watch, right.

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Speaker 3: He's only good when he's like punching Candice Owens, Like

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Speaker 3: that's really where he shines.

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Speaker 1: I ran a raq war situation is the only place

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Speaker 1: that I want to root for injuries.

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Speaker 3: But it's just he he has no skill or basis

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Speaker 3: in this. He is this weird, hateful dude who I

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Speaker 3: just find him totally uninteresting. He's never made a point

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Speaker 3: that I was like, you know, even though we disagree,

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Speaker 3: I find him like, no, not at all. And so

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Speaker 3: I don't know otherwise, I kind of think it's somebody

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Speaker 3: that we don't know yet.

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Speaker 2: That there will be people that rise from this.

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Speaker 3: You know, people are forming Turning Point chapters all over

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Speaker 3: the country in high.

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Speaker 2: Schools and in colleges.

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Speaker 3: There's going to be people that rise up from the

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Speaker 3: movement and do what Charlie did in the same way,

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Speaker 3: that similar way that he did it, in a really smart.

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Speaker 2: Fashion, and take the argument to the students. A lot

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Speaker 2: of people are good at this kind of thing. Ben

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Speaker 2: Shapiro springs to mind. Ben Shapiro is, you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to say older, but he's our age. He's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're not going to college campuses.

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Speaker 3: And while Ben does a great job of debating with people,

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Speaker 3: I think he's really stellar at that.

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Speaker 2: I do think it needs to be.

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Speaker 3: College age, somebody in the same age brackets as these

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Speaker 3: young people in order to have that conversation. Charlie was

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Speaker 3: only thirty one, and he'd been doing this for a

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Speaker 3: long time. He was able to talk to these young

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Speaker 3: people because he was them five minutes ago. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, and it is tricky because it is a very

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a real skill, and I actually so

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Speaker 1: I don't have the skill of building the organization like

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Speaker 1: he did. I do have the skill of talking like

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Speaker 1: I do. Like going to college campuses. I do like

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Speaker 1: when they stand up in front of me and have

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Speaker 1: a question that they feel like I've never heard before,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, I'm really gonna get her. I just

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Speaker 1: say kindly, like I've heard that before, and I am

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Speaker 1: happy to walk you through it. Like the idea that

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Speaker 1: a woman could be a conservative. That's what I'm here for.

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Speaker 1: And it's it is so much fun, and you could

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Speaker 1: see it in Charlie's clips and edifying to have that

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Speaker 1: conversation and at the end of a thirty minute, hour

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Speaker 1: long session, and none of mine were nearly as high

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Speaker 1: profile as Charlie's, but to see a bunch of Harvard

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Speaker 1: students look at you and be like I thought I

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Speaker 1: was gonna hate her, and I'm right that I don't, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what you're looking for. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: important for people like Ben and I'm nobody, but I

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Speaker 1: would also be willing to take up the mic and

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Speaker 1: do these things. I would not be as good at it.

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Speaker 1: It's very stressful, it's very hard work. Without the fear

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Speaker 1: that is now instilled. But it's really important for people

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Speaker 1: to get out there and say we are going to

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Speaker 1: continue to do this with whatever security needs being met.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, colleges need to make sure that

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Speaker 1: they are proactively doing that. There are a lot of

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Speaker 1: them aren't interested in it because speech, but I think

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Speaker 1: that's really important. I think you're right that a young

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Speaker 1: person is better positioned for it. And also to be

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Speaker 1: that well read and to deploy that kind of emotional

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Speaker 1: IQ and to parry with anyone and everyone is a

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Speaker 1: very big ask. The thing that's cool about Charlie is

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Speaker 1: that he built this organization that is well funded, has

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people who believe in it, who has

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Speaker 1: many employees. Any number of those folks can take up

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Speaker 1: the mantle, right And then there's, like you said, many

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Speaker 1: people inspired who we don't even know about yet exactly.

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Speaker 1: But I think the I think the murder of Charlie

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Speaker 1: Kirk is affecting young people in a way that most

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Speaker 1: media and liberal bubble people will missing not understand they're

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Speaker 1: missing it. Are people are taking a second look at

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Speaker 1: their faiths. People have never stepped into a church before

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Speaker 1: are doing it. I wrote about it in The Free

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Speaker 1: press today saying like, yeah, maybe take a chance on God,

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Speaker 1: because dark times are both an invitation to faith and

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Speaker 1: a test of it. Yeah, and you may find that

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Speaker 1: this is exactly the thing that will help you through

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Speaker 1: these times, as I have in the past. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I also want to say a person who could take

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Speaker 1: up his mantle and Erica Kirk So, Erica Kirk gave

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Speaker 1: a stunning, strong, forceful, beautiful tribute to her husband and

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Speaker 1: his work just days after he was killed. She's fantastic,

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Speaker 1: she really is. She is clearly, she clearly has a

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Speaker 1: fierce faith. It will serve her well as she moves forward.

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Speaker 1: A lot of not low profile, not rando people on

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Speaker 1: the left were coming at her for supporting her husband's

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Speaker 1: vision and in the wake of his death and oh,

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Speaker 1: looking a little mad about it. She should be mad

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Speaker 1: about it, guys. She should be mad about it. And

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Speaker 1: if she wants to channel that energy into supporting the

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Speaker 1: thing that her husband died doing, she should do that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely should do that.

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Speaker 1: That's a perfect way to mourn.

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Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, I thought her speech was incredible. How strong

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Speaker 3: she is. And look, I'm full of anger. I could

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Speaker 3: just imagine where she is and the fact that she

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Speaker 3: was able to.

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Speaker 2: Deliver those beautiful words.

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Speaker 3: So shortly after his murder, and you know, people are like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we need somebody to unite us. She has been a

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Speaker 3: uniting figure in this terrible, terrible time. I'm fully supportive

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Speaker 3: of her taking ho here.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be on his widow defense duty for

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Speaker 1: like the next two years for Erica Kirk, like as

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Speaker 1: she may never know who I am, but I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be out here, like y'all need to shut up.

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Speaker 1: She's doing a great job. She's fantastic. She's getting it done. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a hard job in front of her, and she's

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Speaker 1: approaching it with really impressive strength.

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Speaker 3: Are you optimistic about the conservative movement going forward?

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Speaker 1: I tend to be an optimistic person, even in dark times.

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Speaker 1: And I think seeing despite what the left would tell

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Speaker 1: you and much of the media attempts to tell you

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Speaker 1: that the real scary thing is the foreboding response of

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Speaker 1: the right to their their figure being murdered for speaking,

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Speaker 1: how dare we it's not foreboding. Actually, Erica Kirk did

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Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. The candlelight vigils are not mostly peaceful,

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Speaker 1: but peaceful to the extent that they're not peaceful. It's

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Speaker 1: because lefties come and throw things and stomp on flowers

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Speaker 1: and yell ape okay, So that being the coming together

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Speaker 1: of our side does make me feel better because there

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Speaker 1: have been moments when our side has done bad things.

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Speaker 1: And sure, but our response to this is not.

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Speaker 2: Even in the same universe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, our response to this is not twenty twenty. It's

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Speaker 1: actually beautiful and redemptive, and I hope it continues to

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Speaker 1: go down that road.

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Speaker 2: I'm also optimistic.

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Speaker 3: I think that this will unite us in a way

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Speaker 3: that the left can't imagine. I think most people on

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Speaker 3: the right are realizing that we have to stop the infighting.

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Speaker 3: I think that a lot of the stupidity, you know,

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Speaker 3: a lot of it's personal. I think people don't realize

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Speaker 3: how much of political infighting is actually I just don't

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Speaker 3: like that person, and that's where it comes from.

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Speaker 2: Which let me tell you.

438
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 3: When I first went to DC in grad school, you know,

439
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 3: to work there, I was shocked by this. I was

440
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 3: shocked because I was such a movement conservative and I

441
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 3: was going to get along with everybody and it didn't matter.

442
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 3: And I was like, no, people sometimes just don't like

443
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 3: each other, and that's where political infighting comes from. And

444
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 3: it's wild and crazy, and I think we're going to

445
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 3: pause it. I don't look my naive. Do I think

446
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: it's gonna last forever? No, but I would bet we're

447
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,640
Speaker 3: going to see some reconciliations that will even surprise us.

448
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with.

449
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: More on normally and how to parent in the wake

450
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 3: of the Charlie Kirk murder. Be right back, Welcome back

451
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 3: to normally, where we are talking about the murder of

452
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, what it means for the country, what it

453
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 3: means for the conservative movement, how to not end up

454
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 3: with a child who was radicalized. All of this matters,

455
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 3: and I think that it's important to have these conversations.

456
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: Now.

457
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: I'll tell you you know, as you know, Bethany Mandel

458
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 3: and I co authored a book two years ago.

459
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: It was about how.

460
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 3: Children get radicalized and it was called Stolen Youth, and

461
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 3: it's about how all the different parts of society radicalized

462
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 3: children to the left.

463
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: And as I was on book.

464
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 3: Tour for this, so many parents came up to me

465
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 3: and told me the stories. They all started the same way.

466
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 3: They were like I lost my child, and I was like, wow,

467
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 3: what happened, and it's always raised them thinking that they

468
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 3: were going to live our values, and we didn't talk

469
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 3: about politics in the home, and then they went to

470
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 3: college and people filled it in.

471
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: And I think that what conservatives.

472
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 3: Need to understand is that it's okay to have a

473
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 3: perspective with your children. You don't have to kind of

474
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 3: tell them about the world and tell them that all

475
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: opinions are equal. In our house, we know that some

476
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 3: opinions are much better than other opinions, right right, there's

477
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: no Look. Do I tell them what the other perspectives are.

478
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: I do.

479
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 3: But do I tell them that those perspectives are wrong

480
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 3: or my perspective is better?

481
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: Of course I do. That's the normal way to talk

482
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 2: about things, like I think that what.

483
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 3: I believe on issues A, B, and C are the

484
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 3: way that you should think about it. If you happen

485
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 3: to think a different way about it, let's discuss it.

486
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: But I'm not going to present all their perspectives that

487
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 3: I consider harmful or bad as equal to mine. They aren't,

488
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 3: And I think the kids need to hear that.

489
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think your book actually inspired me to be

490
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: more upfront with my kids, because sometimes it can feel

491
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: like when you're parenting that there's so much going on

492
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: that doing the basic work. And actually, weirdly, COVID helped

493
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: me with this because I was homeschooling, so I was

494
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 1: a little bit on the ground floor of creating.

495
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: I want to creating, actually homeschooling, not you know, I

496
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 3: know you came up with the term zoom butler.

497
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: I was not.

498
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: Yeah I was. I was not zoom butlering. I was

499
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: actually homeschooling. But it helped because I got to shape

500
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 1: and build the foundation of their understanding of why they're

501
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: so blessed to live here in this time, in this country.

502
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: And we do a lot of emphasis on that, and

503
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: we do faith teachings in our house, and we do

504
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: not leave it to chance that some rando will come

505
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: along and be like, hey, I've got a new idea

506
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: for you that is and it has nothing to stand

507
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: up against it, right, you know, I don't want to

508
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: leave that vacuum. I do want my kids to be

509
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: free thinkers. That's one of the values that we that

510
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: we talk about is that you can have that back

511
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: and forth. But I will say that having a conversation

512
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: with my kids this weekend about Charlie Kirk specifically is

513
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: tough because I don't want them to be scared for me, right,

514
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: and it's hard to communicate this without them drawing that

515
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: conclusion absolutely.

516
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 3: The other thing that I would say, so two things. One,

517
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 3: keep your kids off TikTok. I know I hear parents

518
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: all the time say how how do.

519
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: You keep your kids off TikTok?

520
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: You just don't let them download it, like if you

521
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 3: if you must do Instagram. Instagram reels very similar to TikTok,

522
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 3: usually a few weeks behind. I just find them to

523
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 3: be less radicalizing, less intense, They come across, less crazy stuff.

524
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 3: I mean, I want to inta I never see kind

525
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: of insane things that I know my friends see on TikTok.

526
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 3: Them off TikTok. Well, today Trump announced a TikTok deal

527
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 3: has been reached. Young people will be very happy. I'm

528
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 3: definitely concerned about that, you know, talking about things of

529
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 3: Donald Trump and I disagree on I think TikTok needs

530
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: to be sold. I think he needs to follow the

531
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: Supreme Court on this. And I think TikTok is harmful.

532
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: It's actively harming our children, and it's not accidental.

533
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: It's harm it's harming them on purpose. It is a

534
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: weapon being used by the CCP, by the Chinese Communist

535
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: Party exactly. Yeah, now that I do think the idea

536
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: of giving your kids unfettered social media access when they're young,

537
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: and a lot of people do throw up their hands

538
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: and go like, what, well, how can I not give

539
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: them that?

540
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 2: Yeah?

541
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: And I understand that COVID made that harder because they

542
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: made you stay at home, right, it made you work.

543
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 1: They didn't have your kids in school, and you were like,

544
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: my kid needs these devices to make friends with people

545
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: because they won't let us go out in the real world.

546
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: I get that, and also we have to modulate like that.

547
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, it's very very toxic. I mean I have,

548
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: as you know, we both have a brand. I've been

549
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: on social media since I was came out, right, Like

550
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: since it came out. I was on Friendster, right, But

551
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: I was a fully grown person with a full frontal

552
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: lobe when I became a public figure who had this

553
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: kind of feedback that is essentially what everyone gets now

554
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: right before, I had that real time feedback about myself.

555
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine how I would have turned out

556
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: had I had that When I was thirteen years old.

557
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: It absolutely really would have been devastating.

558
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 3: The second thing I want to say, well, we'll wrap

559
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: up after this, but you know, you talk about faith,

560
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: and it's you know, I'm often jealous of Christians because

561
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 3: I feel like you guys can find openly conservative spaces,

562
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: and it's so much hart in the Jewish world. I'm

563
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: not Orthodox, and I have written so many complaints about

564
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: how hard it is in the Jewish world to be

565
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: a small c conservative, even though a lot of Jews

566
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: are moving to the right in the last you know,

567
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 3: let's call it almost two years now. But what I'll

568
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 3: say is I'm going to make an effort to find

569
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: other Jewish conservatives to be able for that. I feel

570
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: fairly open. I was born in the Soviet Union. As

571
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: you know, my community is very conservative. I've always felt

572
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: very open about my politics, but I know that other

573
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: Jews don't. I'm going to try to forge more community

574
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: for myself, for others like me, in order for them

575
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: to be more open about who they are politically, and

576
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 3: so that they could pass that along to their kids

577
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 3: as well. I think you need to have that, and

578
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 3: you need to have other people in your universe, in

579
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: your faith in your politics so that your kids can

580
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 3: see other families like yours. You can't do it in

581
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: a silo. If you are trying to do it in

582
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 3: a silo, please find others like whether you know you're

583
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 3: Christian or Jewish or anything else, find other people that

584
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: share your faith, that share your politics. Raise your kids together,

585
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: create something for your children to have a defense against

586
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: all the bad ideas that they will inevitably hear.

587
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they've done the opposite of silencing us.

588
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: Whoever you know, the shooter, this murderer, the opposite of

589
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: silencing me. I am going to be.

590
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're bortter than ever.

591
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: Probably, I'm probably going to put more things on more

592
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: different social medias. And you know, like you said, join

593
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: with other families who, by the way, are having four

594
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: and six kids each yep, to the one on the

595
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: other side, and making sure that we are inculcating all

596
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: of that stuff so another generation can can appreciate the

597
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: things that we have grown up with.

598
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 3: Yep.

599
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: In this house, we protect our values, live it.

600
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on normally normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,

601
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 3: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get

602
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: in touch with us at normally the pod at gmail

603
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: dot come. Thanks for listening and when things get weird

604
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: act normally