Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and Matt.
Speaker 1: Today we're discussing entrepreneurship versus working for the man. So
Speaker 1: right off the bat, you hear that title, you hear
Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about, and you know which which
Speaker 1: camp you fall into. You know, at least currently you
Speaker 1: are either working for the man or you are working
Speaker 1: for yourself. We're not gonna say that one is necessarily
Speaker 1: better than the other, but there are a lot of
Speaker 1: different factors, a lot of different things to consider, and
Speaker 1: that's what this episode is all about. Man, we talk
Speaker 1: about entrepreneurship a good deal, so we're gonna make sure
Speaker 1: that we address this one as fairly as possible. I
Speaker 1: am excited to talk about this with you, my friend. Yeah, Man,
Speaker 1: should be a good topic, and it's something that that
Speaker 1: weighs on a lot of people's minds. I think in
Speaker 1: particular right now with kind of some of the uncertainty
Speaker 1: in the job market. It's like well, and and and
Speaker 1: also a lot of small businesses that have had a
Speaker 1: difficult time lately. So yeah, entrepreneurship sounds great in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. Um, and it is great in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, but there are a lot of entrepreneurs
Speaker 1: having a tough time. There are also a lot of
Speaker 1: people in a traditional career that maybe have found themselves stuck.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there there is a lot to cover on
Speaker 1: today's episode should be a good one. Yeah. One of
Speaker 1: the things you deal with when you are an entrepreneur
Speaker 1: is your prints are not necessarily working the way you
Speaker 1: wanted to, and then you have to beat it into
Speaker 1: submission office space style. You and I we have a
Speaker 1: little printer down here in the studio that we use
Speaker 1: to pronoun our outlines, you know, to pronounce some notes
Speaker 1: for our episodes. And over the past what maybe two
Speaker 1: or three weeks, it's said warning low towner. And we
Speaker 1: keep side eyeing the printer like really like there's actual
Speaker 1: loads owner. I mean it still it still looks really
Speaker 1: good that it's still black on the paper there the
Speaker 1: ink is And until just recently I want to go
Speaker 1: hit prints and it said replaced owner, like literally, you're
Speaker 1: not allowed to print until you do it. It was fine,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, the next time I
Speaker 1: try to print on it, it said, nope, can't do it,
Speaker 1: replace your toner. And you and I we didn't like that,
Speaker 1: and so I called the printer's bluff. I went online
Speaker 1: and figured out what's going on with the printer here,
Speaker 1: and I found out, man, that there is a setting
Speaker 1: that you can go to on this printer. This is
Speaker 1: a brother printer, and you can go down to settings,
Speaker 1: go to replace toner, and you select continue instead of stop.
Speaker 1: And basically the I guess the printer is programmed to
Speaker 1: stop after a certain number of uses, even if there
Speaker 1: is still toner uh in the cartridge. And so, man,
Speaker 1: this is kind of ridiculous, right, It's it's such a
Speaker 1: small barrier to figure this out. I think probably a
Speaker 1: lot of people maybe who are listening know this. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, maybe especially if you are working
Speaker 1: for the man. You are in an office and it
Speaker 1: says replaced toner, you're probably okay and just open it,
Speaker 1: pull it out, throwing the trash, and you're spending money
Speaker 1: on a brand new thing of toner when you don't
Speaker 1: necessarily need it. Yeah, it makes me think of using
Speaker 1: up that last little bit of toothpaste, and yeah, there's
Speaker 1: something just gratifying about using all of of what's in there.
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, with the with the printer in particular,
Speaker 1: knowing that there's a quick by pass in order to
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how many extra pages of
Speaker 1: printing we're gonna get out of there. Maybe a hundred,
Speaker 1: maybe hundred fifty. That was That was a week ago.
Speaker 1: Now that and you have we've continued printing since then.
Speaker 1: But we'll see how long it actually lasts. Man, it
Speaker 1: might be a while. Yeah, yeah, So I love that.
Speaker 1: Any anyway we can get the full usage out of
Speaker 1: the thing that we've bought and not throw it away
Speaker 1: prettymaturely is good in my book. Right. Yeah. Well, so
Speaker 1: back into episode two sixty six, we talked about planned obsolescence,
Speaker 1: and we specifically talked about printers, and I feel like
Speaker 1: this is such a clear way that companies out there, like,
Speaker 1: let's make sure, uh, let's let's make sure the quality
Speaker 1: of your printing remains top notch. And you're gonna want
Speaker 1: to pull that cartridge, you want to pull that toner
Speaker 1: out before it's completely gone. But man, this is one
Speaker 1: area that you and I we do not care if
Speaker 1: it's top notch. That's right. Toner is not our craft
Speaker 1: beer equivalent. Yeah, And it's our way to fight back
Speaker 1: against some of that planned obsolescens, right, Like that to
Speaker 1: our cartridge is not obsolete yet, but we will use
Speaker 1: it until it actually is. Yes, And so that's something.
Speaker 1: If you're out there and you've never heard of this before,
Speaker 1: just google whatever model number you have on your printer.
Speaker 1: And if if you think you're you've been victim to
Speaker 1: this practice, you can go in there and figure out
Speaker 1: how to extend the life of your town or there
Speaker 1: you go. All right, maw, Let's get onto the beer
Speaker 1: that we're having on the show today. This one's called
Speaker 1: Realities and it's a triple I p A brewed with honey,
Speaker 1: and it's a collaboration beer between Dissolver and Good Word
Speaker 1: Brewing Company. Good Word close to us in Atlanta and
Speaker 1: Dissolver is up in North Carolina. That's right, man, this
Speaker 1: one's got some crazy can are going on. We can
Speaker 1: talk about it as well as uh the way this
Speaker 1: beer taste. Will do that at the end of the episode.
Speaker 1: But first, man, let's get to the topic at hand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. We're talking about entrepreneurship versus working for
Speaker 1: the man. And I guess you know, one of the
Speaker 1: questions that a lot of people have, especially as you're
Speaker 1: maturing in your career is should you work for the
Speaker 1: man or should you work for yourself? Which one is
Speaker 1: going to be better for you over the long haul?
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of things to consider when
Speaker 1: you're asking yourself that question. And there's also not necessarily
Speaker 1: a one size fits all answer. It's not like everybody
Speaker 1: you know fits into to the same categories, um and
Speaker 1: so there are a lot of things to consider. There
Speaker 1: are meaningful trade offs depending on the choice you make, too,
Speaker 1: So we're going to try to cover some of the
Speaker 1: important things that you should think through when you're trying
Speaker 1: to decide whether or not you should be starting your
Speaker 1: own business or whether you're better off in the traditional
Speaker 1: working world as an employee of someone else's business. And
Speaker 1: this question feels I think even more relevant, Matt, given
Speaker 1: the circumstances we find ourselves in with some people being
Speaker 1: furloughed from a business or lego completely UH industries kind
Speaker 1: of in turmoil. Um. Certain sectors are doing incredibly well,
Speaker 1: other sectors of the economy are suffering tremendously so in
Speaker 1: this time of ements change, Hopefully this episode can help
Speaker 1: you think through what you want your future to look
Speaker 1: like in regards to work, whether that's working for yourself
Speaker 1: or working for the man. Yeah, let's go ahead first
Speaker 1: and clear up some misconceptions. You know, I feel like
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship it's kind of been put up on a pedestal
Speaker 1: in our society. We hear a lot about startup successes
Speaker 1: and unicorn companies that soar two billion dollar valuations. But
Speaker 1: those stories, man, are obviously the exception, they are not
Speaker 1: the rule. Most people, they don't write about their massive failures.
Speaker 1: So we tend to to have a view of entrepreneurship
Speaker 1: that doesn't quite align with reality. Right And then at
Speaker 1: the same time, too, I think we're even guilty of
Speaker 1: that to a certain extent here on the show. You know,
Speaker 1: listeners will often hear us talking about ramping up your
Speaker 1: side gig into a full fledged business. But taking the
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship route doesn't come without its risks and its hardships.
Speaker 1: It's not for everyone, and maybe uh more folks should
Speaker 1: stick with the traditional job, you know. So let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and dig in and discuss the benefits, the trade
Speaker 1: offs and more of each of these routes. Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it all right, So, yeah, yeah, there are
Speaker 1: a few things to consider. Kind of these bigger, overarching
Speaker 1: things before we get into the specific trade offs that
Speaker 1: you're gonna make depending on which route you go. And
Speaker 1: and one of the first things to consider is that
Speaker 1: not everyone has this option. Not everyone has the ability
Speaker 1: to choose whether they want to become an entrepreneur or
Speaker 1: whether they want to work for somebody else. Some folks
Speaker 1: are just happy to be working at all right now,
Speaker 1: completely completely, and yeah, so we understand, in particular, given
Speaker 1: the current state of things in the economy, a lot
Speaker 1: of folks don't necessarily have a choice that they can make,
Speaker 1: and starting a business, it often takes time and some
Speaker 1: resources at your disposal. At the same time, though, Matt
Speaker 1: and I would encourage you to go back and take
Speaker 1: a listen to episode to forty seven with Alan donnegan
Speaker 1: because you can start a business for zero dollars or
Speaker 1: or close to it, and I think that episode was
Speaker 1: really helpful to to see things in a new light.
Speaker 1: We all often think that starting in business requires a
Speaker 1: lot of resources and a lot of money upfront, and
Speaker 1: that's just not always the case. There are some businesses
Speaker 1: that can get started with a little elbow grease and
Speaker 1: next to nothing when it comes to money. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: another consideration is your age. Right, how old are you?
Speaker 1: The average age of a first time entrepreneur is between
Speaker 1: thirty nine and forty two, depending on what study you're
Speaker 1: looking at. Uh. The entrepreneurs that fail most often, though,
Speaker 1: are in their twenties. It's awesome because of the lack
Speaker 1: of experience and knowledge. We learn a lot through working
Speaker 1: for the man you know, at least for a period
Speaker 1: of time. So that's an argument for working at nine
Speaker 1: to five. But on the flip side, when you're young,
Speaker 1: you know you have less to lose, You have fewer
Speaker 1: responsibilities and others counting on you, especially if you don't
Speaker 1: have a family yet and your expenses are minimal, it
Speaker 1: can be a great time to to run with that
Speaker 1: dream that you have and to build your own business.
Speaker 1: I know when Kate and I started our own company Man,
Speaker 1: we were in our twenties. We had zero debt and
Speaker 1: so for us Man that was one of our motivators.
Speaker 1: That was one of the things we kind of kept
Speaker 1: going back to, if not now, when you know, like,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be no better time than than right now
Speaker 1: for us to pursue something like this. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: have a mortgage and multiple children and all these other
Speaker 1: things on the table that you have to provide for
Speaker 1: it becomes a riskier proposition. And so yeah, that there's
Speaker 1: that kind of dual side of way of looking at things.
Speaker 1: So of is it easier to start later in life
Speaker 1: or is it easier to start earlier? Um, And I
Speaker 1: think yeah, it's an interesting thing to consider. It's also
Speaker 1: important to ask yourself what's your temperament. Some people are
Speaker 1: just wired to do their own thing, while others lack
Speaker 1: the risk taking ability, and some people just work better
Speaker 1: in a group setting. And Matt, I'm one of those people, right,
Speaker 1: So I don't think I ever would have started a
Speaker 1: solo business. If it meant me going out on my
Speaker 1: own and developing something solo, it's just not going to
Speaker 1: do very well because I work better in a group context.
Speaker 1: Starting a podcast with the best buddy though, that was
Speaker 1: a different proposition. I'm like, Okay, cool, Yeah, I can
Speaker 1: do that. We can build this at least one other person, Okay, ye,
Speaker 1: exactly as a team. And I think that is something
Speaker 1: that you need to keep in mind. If you're the
Speaker 1: kind of person that's easily defeated, doesn't necessarily work well solo,
Speaker 1: then you know, starting a solo business, becoming an entrepreneur
Speaker 1: um alone is probably not best for you. You You gotta
Speaker 1: know yourself. You also gotta know what skills and what
Speaker 1: knowledge you possess. Man. You know, if you're looking to
Speaker 1: to take the entrepreneur path, then you're likely going to
Speaker 1: need to have, or be willing to acquire, right a
Speaker 1: certain level of business acumen. You know, this is true
Speaker 1: of a lot of our photographer of our creative friends.
Speaker 1: They love the creative part of work for themselves, uh
Speaker 1: and doing something artistic, but developing the you know, like
Speaker 1: the sales and the administration side of things can often
Speaker 1: come a little bit more slowly, you know, maybe with
Speaker 1: a lot of difficult learning moments, and so that's definitely
Speaker 1: something to keep in mind as well. Yeah, you might
Speaker 1: be a great artist, a great photographer, a great baker,
Speaker 1: but you've got to realize there's a couple of the
Speaker 1: things you're gonna need to learn at the same time.
Speaker 1: Baking awesome cookies is a great first step, but but then, yeah,
Speaker 1: you do have to develop that business acument at the
Speaker 1: same time. And obviously with a more traditional job, it's
Speaker 1: a lot easier to have a very specialized skill where
Speaker 1: you can focus on on the things that you're good at,
Speaker 1: like if you bake great cookies working in a bakery,
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about the business side, and
Speaker 1: then you can leave it to your employer to handle
Speaker 1: the sales, client services, payroll, insurance, basically all the things
Speaker 1: that might be a nightmare for others, the things you
Speaker 1: might want to completely avoid. There's nothing wrong with either
Speaker 1: of these approaches, but it will affect the type of
Speaker 1: work that's required of you, and that's important to know
Speaker 1: before you launch a business. Just because you're great at
Speaker 1: a particular skill doesn't necessarily mean you have what it
Speaker 1: takes to become an entrepreneur, but that you really even
Speaker 1: necessarily want to go down that path. Yeah, alright, man.
Speaker 1: So those are some great questions for us to run
Speaker 1: through and for individuals to think about before we even
Speaker 1: dive into the weeds of entrepreneurship versus working for the man.
Speaker 1: But after the break, we're gonna talk about some specific
Speaker 1: factors and you know, some of these different trade offs
Speaker 1: that we have to make when you are deciding between
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship and running your own business versus a more traditional
Speaker 1: nine to five and We'll get to all of those
Speaker 1: right after the break. All right, we're back from the break.
Speaker 1: We're talking about entrepreneurship versus working for the man, and
Speaker 1: and either one of these routes can be good depending
Speaker 1: on Like we said, it's your temperament and the skills
Speaker 1: analogy that you possess. We we we talked about some of
Speaker 1: those broader overarching things, but let's get to some of
Speaker 1: the specific things that you need to consider before you
Speaker 1: dive in and you you make a decision before you
Speaker 1: just side which one is right for you. And Matt, obviously,
Speaker 1: the number one thing that people are gonna want to
Speaker 1: consider is what kind of income can you make being
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur versus working for the Man's at the top
Speaker 1: of the list. Man It's act. It is. It is
Speaker 1: that that's going to of course influence people in the
Speaker 1: direction that they go in. A day job will give
Speaker 1: you a steadier paycheck. Most folks who have a nine
Speaker 1: to five might not realize how great this is, but
Speaker 1: it's a pretty amazing thing to know that you're going
Speaker 1: to be receiving a certain amount in every paycheck every
Speaker 1: single two weeks or at the end of every month. However,
Speaker 1: you get paid, but also there are limits to that.
Speaker 1: You're only getting paid as much as your employer is
Speaker 1: willing to pay you. Raises are typically more limited when
Speaker 1: you're working in a nine to five context. I know
Speaker 1: my raises that kind of mash inflation a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so really you're not really getting a raise. Essentially, in
Speaker 1: my last fifteen years of being employed for the Man,
Speaker 1: it's been, Uh, it's like an annual conversation where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the max we can give you is a two percent
Speaker 1: raise this year. Um, But you've been working so well
Speaker 1: that I think we can give you the two percent um,
Speaker 1: And I feel bad for anybody who it's like, you
Speaker 1: haven't been working at great, so you get the half
Speaker 1: a percent race, but be terrible. But that's like totally
Speaker 1: normal in the corporate context these days, especially with a
Speaker 1: lot of larger employers. So it's not that you can't negotiate, um,
Speaker 1: it's not that you can't try to move up in
Speaker 1: the company, and we've discussed some of those things before
Speaker 1: on the show, but the earning potential upside is often
Speaker 1: far more limited in the corporate contact center is if
Speaker 1: you choose an entrepreneurial route, Yeah, Conversely, starting your own
Speaker 1: thing is uh, it's more of a an eat what
Speaker 1: you kill approach. Right. The earning potential there is limited
Speaker 1: only to what your your industry would allow, not your company,
Speaker 1: and as well, you know, to the time and effort
Speaker 1: that you are willing to put into it. You know,
Speaker 1: the sky is essentially the limit in many ways to
Speaker 1: the income that you can produce when you own and
Speaker 1: run your own business. But you know, to man, one
Speaker 1: of the biggest downsides to starting your own business is
Speaker 1: that income can be highly irregular and inconsistent, you know,
Speaker 1: especially early on, it can be difficult not only to
Speaker 1: have the systems in place that you know, that ensure
Speaker 1: that you have a study paycheck, but additionally, it can
Speaker 1: be really hard to have enough in reserves, you know,
Speaker 1: to ensure that you get paid every single month versus
Speaker 1: you know, a sort of thing where you get a
Speaker 1: fat check you know, maybe once every few months. For
Speaker 1: a lot of folks who are used to getting that
Speaker 1: paycheck every two weeks or once a month, this can
Speaker 1: be a pretty big shock. Yeah, that's a great point, man,
Speaker 1: I think, especially if someone is deciding to move into
Speaker 1: an entrepreneurial role, quitting their day job and starting their
Speaker 1: own business, they really do need to think about having,
Speaker 1: you know, more money in the bank so that they
Speaker 1: can weather some of those storms, because it is going
Speaker 1: to be different, right, You're you're in Consistent pay is
Speaker 1: a hard thing for a lot of people who are
Speaker 1: used to working in a corporate contexts, who are used
Speaker 1: to getting paid every two weeks to kind of figure
Speaker 1: out and get accustomed to, and who may not be
Speaker 1: used to managing their their own personal finances very well. Right,
Speaker 1: you know, if they're just counting on sort of like
Speaker 1: that trickle of money every two weeks, it might be
Speaker 1: a little more difficult to to get behind. Okay, what
Speaker 1: do the next three months of living look like? Let alone,
Speaker 1: It's hard to do that when you're not very good at,
Speaker 1: you know, even managing two weeks at a time. That's
Speaker 1: a good point. Yeah, so, Matt, you you kind of
Speaker 1: touched on this just now to another really important consideration
Speaker 1: when you're deciding which route works best for you is
Speaker 1: the time and balance side of the equation. Day jobs,
Speaker 1: I think, in a lot of ways are easier than
Speaker 1: taking the entrepreneurial route. A full time day job often
Speaker 1: allows you to check out after forty hours of work
Speaker 1: each week. That's not always the case, of course, but
Speaker 1: but it is for a lot of jobs. Nights and
Speaker 1: weekends are likely yours to use how you like in
Speaker 1: many contacts. Plus in a lot of jobs, you've got
Speaker 1: two to four weeks of vacation. All right. It's a
Speaker 1: decent lifestyle that you can plan pretty well around. Whereas
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship can kind of take over your life. You mentioned
Speaker 1: that which you kill approach, and I think because of that,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's hard to shut things down and it's hard
Speaker 1: to find much balance in in your life because you
Speaker 1: can let work take over and expand to as much
Speaker 1: as you'll get it. Yeah, it's definitely able to grow
Speaker 1: to fit that fish bowl you know, right that that
Speaker 1: goalfish that's in there. And man like I I often
Speaker 1: you know, refer back to when Caton I started our
Speaker 1: own company. But we went fell victim to this right here,
Speaker 1: man like I swear the first four or five years,
Speaker 1: folks would ask, what, you know, how the business was going,
Speaker 1: and like what we would say is like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: going great. But it wasn't until after that that we
Speaker 1: were able to kind of look back a little bit
Speaker 1: and what we realize is was that the business sort
Speaker 1: of felt like this runaway train, you know, like we
Speaker 1: felt like we were constantly trying to catch up to
Speaker 1: its versus us leading and guiding where the business went. Uh.
Speaker 1: And that's because, like we were excited about it, and
Speaker 1: that's great to be excited about it, but at the
Speaker 1: same time, it truly can kind of dominate your life. Man.
Speaker 1: And another consideration you know, you mentioned how like salary
Speaker 1: is probably one of the top things to consider when
Speaker 1: you're you know, considering entrepreneurship or or working a traditional
Speaker 1: nine to five. But if that's first, then a very
Speaker 1: close second are the benefits that you receive from working
Speaker 1: a nine to five if you go the entrepreneur route.
Speaker 1: Health insurance is expensive because you are footing the entire bill. Oftentimes.
Speaker 1: I do think this is something that keeps people from
Speaker 1: going down the path of entrepreneurship a little bit more.
Speaker 1: There are some routes you can go for this to
Speaker 1: to be you know, less of a thorn in your side,
Speaker 1: Like does your spouse have health insurance through their work
Speaker 1: it's so great, you know, or maybe your income is
Speaker 1: is you know, low enough that you qualify for some
Speaker 1: meaningful subsidies on the healthcare exchange, Like, that's cool too,
Speaker 1: But if you are paying full price for healthcare, just
Speaker 1: know that it's gonna be a lot of money. The
Speaker 1: average annual premiums for a family are around twenty thou dollars,
Speaker 1: and typically when you're employed, your employer covers a lot
Speaker 1: of that. And so know that that's an expense that
Speaker 1: you're gonna be now burdened with. Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 1: employers covering fifty sixties seventy plus percent of the health
Speaker 1: insurance costs and and yeah, it's a big shock when
Speaker 1: now it's all on your plate easily. Yeah. Uh. And
Speaker 1: you also won't have a company match, you know, when
Speaker 1: it comes to retirement benefits, but you do have access
Speaker 1: to tax advantaged retirement accounts that can allow you to
Speaker 1: invest a whole lot more as well. With a SEPI A,
Speaker 1: you can invest up to fifty seven thousand dollars every
Speaker 1: single year and at tax deferred account. That's a little
Speaker 1: trick that your four one K doesn't have. Yeah, it's sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: four OK, nineteen five is your personal contribution limits? Seems
Speaker 1: pretty piddily compared to the step. Yeah, if you're a
Speaker 1: boller and you're and you're making tons of money, You've
Speaker 1: ramped up income, like we talked about, and you want
Speaker 1: to invest a good portion of it and live modestly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can quickly, um, invest a whole lot of money.
Speaker 1: I have at it. Yeah. Yeah. And on the note
Speaker 1: of benefits, Matt, obviously, if you're employed, traditionally there's the
Speaker 1: health insurance thing. And we talked recently on the show
Speaker 1: about some of the great benefits the companies are now
Speaker 1: offering their employees. I feel like companies over the last
Speaker 1: decade have been offering all sorts of interesting new benefits
Speaker 1: that creative out there. They are they are so yeah,
Speaker 1: pto to go vote or or even volunteer at the
Speaker 1: polls was was something that is something that it seems
Speaker 1: like more employers are offering this year. In particular, Google
Speaker 1: announced that they're matching for student loan debt payments, and
Speaker 1: other companies are taking student loan debts seriously as well
Speaker 1: and creating similar incentives and even just like the small perks,
Speaker 1: the small benefits of like free coffee in the break room. Um.
Speaker 1: And I don't know that that's some think that's on
Speaker 1: people's minds these days. Working from home in many ways,
Speaker 1: we'll not with a couple of granola bars there in
Speaker 1: the break room. Yeah, yeah, I mean that was nice, man.
Speaker 1: I will say I miss that, like I missed going
Speaker 1: into the break room grabbing my coffee. It was one
Speaker 1: of those small parks, but it felt real and legitimate.
Speaker 1: And uh, remember we're our own bosses. We can have
Speaker 1: coffee down here too. But that's a good point. We can't.
Speaker 1: Let's do it all right, we're just cheap. We need
Speaker 1: to make that happen. But yeah, those are all the
Speaker 1: kind of things that employers are getting creative with the
Speaker 1: kind of benefits they're offering. And now, if you want
Speaker 1: these benefits, they're up to you. You can pay yourself
Speaker 1: to go vote, I guess um, but you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to be proactive about kind of giving yourself some of
Speaker 1: these parks, just like Matt and I need to do
Speaker 1: get some coffee now here. Right, it's not being cheap.
Speaker 1: Those are the kind of things that you can incorporate, um,
Speaker 1: but it's not this benevolent employer essentially providing it for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it feels a little bit different when it kind of
Speaker 1: comes out of your own pocket versus your employer covering
Speaker 1: the bill right right right One other things to man
Speaker 1: that the degree of autonomy and the ability to it
Speaker 1: to work when, how and and where you want. That
Speaker 1: rank's pretty high up on the list as well. You know,
Speaker 1: when it comes to the different reasons that people want
Speaker 1: to leave their traditional job and strike out on their own.
Speaker 1: There's also the ability to to not have to deal
Speaker 1: with all the bureaucracy. You know, all those TPS reports
Speaker 1: that used to have to file. You don't have to
Speaker 1: deal with that anymore. No silly systems and busy work
Speaker 1: as well. There's typically less flexibility with the nine to
Speaker 1: five man, although more companies are relaxing their work practices.
Speaker 1: You know, working from home has gained some real momentum,
Speaker 1: but there's still something to be said for having set
Speaker 1: hours when you're going to work, when you know that
Speaker 1: stuff is going to get done. Uh And I almost
Speaker 1: see that as as kind of like a like a
Speaker 1: benefit of a traditional nine to five because you kind
Speaker 1: of have that accountability. Essentially, It's like when you go
Speaker 1: to workout, you have a trainer maybe kind of yelling
Speaker 1: at you, telling you that this is the workout for
Speaker 1: the day. When you are your own boss, and you
Speaker 1: have a lot of flexibility. You've got to make sure
Speaker 1: that you stay pretty self disciplined in order to get
Speaker 1: the work done that's gonna pay the bills. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: goes back to the temperament thing that we'll be right
Speaker 1: and talked about at the beginning. You've gotta be able
Speaker 1: to set those goals, knock them down. You got to
Speaker 1: be a self starter. You've gotta be able to motivate
Speaker 1: yourself to get going in the morning, um, and to
Speaker 1: start crushing those goals. And man, I think what you
Speaker 1: just said about bureaucracy is an important point. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially if they work in a
Speaker 1: larger business, they have like creative juices that they're not
Speaker 1: able to expand, and in large part it feels like
Speaker 1: it's because it's this bureaucracy that they can't get past.
Speaker 1: And I think that is one of the number one
Speaker 1: reasons people leave corporate America to start something else. Is like,
Speaker 1: there are all these other things that we talked about
Speaker 1: their benefits to pursuing an entrepreneurial route starting your own business,
Speaker 1: but some of it's just a feel of feeling and
Speaker 1: get out of a place where you feel stuck. And
Speaker 1: I think sometimes that that bigger corporate bureaucracy can can
Speaker 1: make you feel that and and just give you like
Speaker 1: the itch to get out of there. Yeah, you can
Speaker 1: feel stifled when you realize that you're sitting there to
Speaker 1: spinning your tires and nothing is actually you know, nothing
Speaker 1: is changing, and you can see the inefficiencies that you
Speaker 1: can capitalize on and strike it out on your own.
Speaker 1: I totally hear you. Man, You're like, I've got good ideas,
Speaker 1: but nobody's listening to exactly. So yeah, you're like, I
Speaker 1: guess I gotta to go to my own thing, all right,
Speaker 1: but we got a couple more things to get to
Speaker 1: that you have to con better when when you're making
Speaker 1: that choice of becoming an entrepreneur and striking it down
Speaker 1: on your own versus working for the man. And also
Speaker 1: some practical steps if you find if you want to
Speaker 1: find out if entrepreneurship is is the right next move
Speaker 1: for you, and we'll get to that right after this.
Speaker 1: All right, we are back from the break talking about
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship or working a traditional job nine to five for
Speaker 1: the man, Joel, real quick before we kind of dive
Speaker 1: back into some of these you know specific factors we
Speaker 1: want folks to think through. You want me singing that
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton song, let me hear it working? No, I
Speaker 1: want to hear if you weren't in the audio media
Speaker 1: space right if if you couldn't talk for a living? Uh?
Speaker 1: And I want to eliminate personal finances as well, if
Speaker 1: you couldn't say maybe you couldn't talk, but you could
Speaker 1: still write. You still can't sit down with somebody and
Speaker 1: write out how you're going to help them through with
Speaker 1: their personal finances. Uh. If you had to do something
Speaker 1: completely unrelated right now, uh, with with your life, what
Speaker 1: do you think you would do? So my parents always
Speaker 1: say that I'd make a good used car salesman or
Speaker 1: a lawyer, And um, yeah, I probably one of those
Speaker 1: two professions honestly, like so because they're based in some
Speaker 1: of the things that I love already, in particular the
Speaker 1: spoken word, right, Like, I can just see myself in
Speaker 1: front of a courtroom arguing for you know, a defendant
Speaker 1: or something like that. So I don't know, probably probably
Speaker 1: something like that. So maybe you'd be a d a okay, Uh,
Speaker 1: I would kind of I think I could see myself
Speaker 1: gravitating and leaning towards like contractor work, like in particular
Speaker 1: people's homes like spaces and how they use those spaces
Speaker 1: and different tweaks and changes, you know, not necessarily making
Speaker 1: things nicer, but like how could you change this space
Speaker 1: to make it, you know, work for you better? Like
Speaker 1: what are your goals? What are the things that you're
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish with this home renovation? You know, things
Speaker 1: like that. You know, we find a lot of gratification,
Speaker 1: a lot of fulfillment out of personal finance and talking
Speaker 1: about this and man, we love hearing from our listeners
Speaker 1: and how they've been able to change their lives. But
Speaker 1: it's also see it based on either hearing a voice mamma,
Speaker 1: if they mentioned it in a question or if they
Speaker 1: send us an email. But to actually see something physical,
Speaker 1: like something that you've built, something that you've created. Man,
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed that as well, Like something that I've
Speaker 1: made with my hands makes me really happy. This is
Speaker 1: part of why I like when we go to the beach,
Speaker 1: always bring along with that that shovel. This isn't a
Speaker 1: this isn't like a normal kid beach shovel. This is
Speaker 1: like a grown man's shovel. That that I always stick
Speaker 1: to the beach and I always spend like half of
Speaker 1: the day digging holes in the sand for the kids,
Speaker 1: whether it be tide pools or rivers or castles, you know,
Speaker 1: our giant moats, because I just I like doing that,
Speaker 1: and then I like sitting back and enjoying a beer
Speaker 1: and seeing what I've created. Yeah, I'm curious what you're
Speaker 1: gonna say. That's not something we've talked about before, but
Speaker 1: it's uh, something I've always gonna have in the back
Speaker 1: of my mind for me personally at least, although as
Speaker 1: I get older to my body starts hurting and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: it'd be tough to be a contractor, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like hard on the back, hard on the knees. You
Speaker 1: could just be like a design consultant or something. What
Speaker 1: could do that? Or an architect there I feel like
Speaker 1: that's a little less impactful on the body. I could.
Speaker 1: I can totally see you doing that too, for sure.
Speaker 1: Maybe all right, let's get too too. A couple more
Speaker 1: things you have to consider when when you're trying to
Speaker 1: choose between an entrepreneurial or a nine to five route.
Speaker 1: And then we'll get to some practical steps. But but
Speaker 1: another thing that is just of massive importance that you
Speaker 1: have to consider when you're choosing which direction is better
Speaker 1: for you is the mission that you're trying to and
Speaker 1: that you can potentially accomplish. Man, I feel like you're
Speaker 1: touching on this just before the break. But when it
Speaker 1: comes to entrepreneurship, you get to define exactly what it
Speaker 1: is that you want to spend your time doing what
Speaker 1: you want to accomplish. Those ideas that you bring to
Speaker 1: a meeting that might get shut down, they don't get
Speaker 1: shut down any longer because you're on the business right. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: with the traditional job, you might get a degree of
Speaker 1: personal fulfillment, but the mission of of the place you're
Speaker 1: working may not align with your personal mission as much
Speaker 1: as you'd like it to. So being able to define, create,
Speaker 1: and pursue the mission that resonates with you, I think
Speaker 1: it's this this priceless benefit of being an entrepreneur, of
Speaker 1: creating the exact thing you wanted to create and seeing
Speaker 1: whether it succeeds. On the flip side, though not everyone
Speaker 1: knows what their mission would be if they were starting
Speaker 1: their own company. A lot of folks aren't even sure
Speaker 1: of what the perfect job looks like for them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of folks out there who are thinking,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm pretty happy with what I'm doing
Speaker 1: right here, you know, like they haven't necessarily looked beyond
Speaker 1: what they're currently doing if they had the option to. YEA.
Speaker 1: And sometimes we have a personal mission that's separate from
Speaker 1: our work mission, and you know, we have things that
Speaker 1: we want to accomplish in life that we we can
Speaker 1: essentially get our complete mission fulfillment outside of the nine
Speaker 1: to five. And that's totally fine too. I just think
Speaker 1: for some people, they want their work to encompass that,
Speaker 1: and oftentimes it's really hard to accomplish that outside of
Speaker 1: starting your own thing. Yeah, I think there are a
Speaker 1: lot of individuals who kind of take that approach right
Speaker 1: where they say, Okay, I'm just gonna work this job.
Speaker 1: It makes a lot of money, and I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: sure that I'm personally fulfilled in all these other areas
Speaker 1: in life. But man, personally, I like there to be
Speaker 1: a little more overlap, you know. I want to see
Speaker 1: my life, uh kind of aligning with my career with
Speaker 1: how I'm spending you know, eight hours every single day
Speaker 1: like life's too short to to only find fulfillment in
Speaker 1: the eight remaining hours outside of sleeping and working, you know,
Speaker 1: like you only have a third of the day left,
Speaker 1: then find personal fulfillment plus all the other chores that
Speaker 1: you need to do. Like, there's just lots of life
Speaker 1: that happens in those eight hours as well. And I
Speaker 1: was gonna leave a whole lot left with kids and
Speaker 1: chores there. Yeah, that that personal fulfillment amount of time
Speaker 1: that you it begins to dwindles, you can pursue that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it gets cut down to next to nothing. I'd say, um,
Speaker 1: job security, that's nothing else that's important to cover here. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's job security is often considered I think, rock solid
Speaker 1: when you have a traditional job, but I think that
Speaker 1: is often oversold. You know, even in non pandemic COVID times,
Speaker 1: your job is never as solid as you think it is.
Speaker 1: But now, man, people in all sorts of different industries
Speaker 1: are finding the other job either went away altogether or
Speaker 1: at least, you know, for a short period of time. Man.
Speaker 1: There's an article in the New York Times about people
Speaker 1: in the airline industry, you know, finally giving up on
Speaker 1: the prospect of working there. For years to come and
Speaker 1: moving on. Um. Many people are now realizing that their
Speaker 1: job security wasn't quite what they thought it was, and
Speaker 1: they're learning this firsthand. Yeah, I think if I worked
Speaker 1: in the airline industry. We've got friends in that industry, Matt.
Speaker 1: They've taken a long firm low, or they've left completely.
Speaker 1: It's something I'd be rethinking right now, right And these
Speaker 1: are the kind of questions I'd be asking myself. Um.
Speaker 1: And and job security is definitely an interesting thing to
Speaker 1: bring up. Entrepreneurship. Well, it obviously doesn't have the steady
Speaker 1: paycheck of the ninety five we talked about that you
Speaker 1: could maybe gain three clients and lose two others in
Speaker 1: the same month, But once you've developed your business a little,
Speaker 1: that job security is actually better, I think in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways than a traditional nine to five, where
Speaker 1: you could lose all of your income at once, like
Speaker 1: with without a moment's notice. And most importantly, being an
Speaker 1: entrepreneur and calling the shots of your own business instills
Speaker 1: a sense of creative financial control over your life. It's
Speaker 1: basically the opposite of having a victim mentality, And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I had this like hesitancy towards entrepreneurship for
Speaker 1: a long period of time, towards starting my own business,
Speaker 1: because that idea of losing the job security and the
Speaker 1: consistency of a nine to five was a little scary
Speaker 1: to me. But over the years, as I've kind of
Speaker 1: gotten my feet wet in entrepreneurial endeavors, I realized that
Speaker 1: it's not nearly as risky as it seems in the surface. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and plus, just like that whole mindset shift, you know,
Speaker 1: like when you have your own business, you're you're in
Speaker 1: the driver's seat. So in essence, I feel like like
Speaker 1: it builds a certain level of resiliency. So when hard
Speaker 1: times do hit, I think entrepreneurs are able to kind
Speaker 1: of adapt and to pivot a little more quickly than
Speaker 1: somebody who is used to being, you know, told exactly
Speaker 1: what to do. Being in a more traditional job, you're
Speaker 1: you're used to thinking a little bit more creatively when
Speaker 1: you do we're in your own business, for sure, and
Speaker 1: so those are some of the different trade offs that
Speaker 1: we are going to experience, you know that folks are
Speaker 1: going to experience as they're out there debating between you know,
Speaker 1: a nine to five or where they're running their own business.
Speaker 1: But let's talk now, let's get a little more practical.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the immediate steps to take
Speaker 1: when it comes to kind of launching into entrepreneurship. And
Speaker 1: the first thing that we want to encourage folks to
Speaker 1: do is just to dabble a little bit in it.
Speaker 1: You know, make the time to do it on the side,
Speaker 1: test out your your your business idea before you take
Speaker 1: this massive leap. You know, as an entrepreneur you're likely
Speaker 1: going to be working over forty hours for a while anyway,
Speaker 1: So kind of get used to it by dabbling a
Speaker 1: little bit on the side before you quit your job completely. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: I feel like dabbling massively underrated. I dabbled in our
Speaker 1: friendship before I realized I want to be best friends.
Speaker 1: You know, sure, well, I know you you're seeing that
Speaker 1: as a joke, but like that's true though, you know,
Speaker 1: like like we are always kind of feeling things out,
Speaker 1: and so often in our minds we think, okay, nine
Speaker 1: to five or entrepreneurship. It's one or the other. It's
Speaker 1: either black or white. But that's not the case. You're
Speaker 1: never friends or not friends with somebody. There's a whole
Speaker 1: continuum of friendship in between best buddies. Uh and I
Speaker 1: hate you. That's true, there is all right. So another
Speaker 1: the next practical step we would say is important to
Speaker 1: take if you're considering the entrepreneurship route is to find
Speaker 1: a community of people that will support you in it.
Speaker 1: And we talk about this with real estate investing. That
Speaker 1: joining a local real estate investors group can give you
Speaker 1: the confidence as well as some of the know how
Speaker 1: to to make a smart decision and to make the
Speaker 1: right moves when it comes to buying rental properties. So
Speaker 1: finding that group of like minded folks can help you
Speaker 1: glean those insights without reinventing the wheel, learning it all
Speaker 1: from scratch. By going it alone, that group, that community
Speaker 1: can provide the encouragement that you need along with some
Speaker 1: of the know how. Yeah, and if you want to
Speaker 1: use some marketing language, you can just call it your
Speaker 1: mastermind group. And people are really excited about doing it right.
Speaker 1: Exactly along the same lines, Uh, you can actually find
Speaker 1: mentorship when it comes to starting a business. Score dot
Speaker 1: org and is a great place to turn. This is
Speaker 1: an awesome free resource for anyone looking to start a
Speaker 1: business UH and get personal help from a mentor who
Speaker 1: has gone down that path before. On their website, there
Speaker 1: you can you can find someone locally based on your
Speaker 1: zip code. But due to COVID you can even remotely
Speaker 1: connect with the mentor these days, and they make it
Speaker 1: really easy. You can search by keyword or by industry
Speaker 1: and you can get on there. And even you know,
Speaker 1: this doesn't have to be a mentorship or the kind
Speaker 1: of relationship where you do exactly what they say. It's
Speaker 1: also great to just to like hear what somebody does
Speaker 1: have to say, just to kind of bounce some ideas
Speaker 1: off of them. I see this as a great way
Speaker 1: to kind of combat that temperamental that you mentioned before,
Speaker 1: or if you find it difficult sometimes to work on
Speaker 1: your own, having a mentor is a great way not
Speaker 1: only to get some insightful wisdom, but also to to
Speaker 1: have a friend someone to bounce those ideas off of. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they can be a great sounding board and the fact
Speaker 1: that you can get a mentor for free is pretty sweet.
Speaker 1: Score dot org is the website, by the way, uh.
Speaker 1: And the last practical step would say is to develop
Speaker 1: permanent skills. I think that's probably the best advice we
Speaker 1: can give Matt, because young people will likely find themselves
Speaker 1: not only working for a large number of different companies
Speaker 1: in their lives, but also working in a bunch of
Speaker 1: different industries, very very different from the route that our
Speaker 1: parents took. Work is going to be much more fluid
Speaker 1: for millennials and Gen z ears than it was for
Speaker 1: our parents. So we say, look to develop skills that
Speaker 1: will help you transition well in the future, whether you're
Speaker 1: working for yourself or for someone else. Right. Soft skills
Speaker 1: like humility and leadership, hard skills like accounting or learning
Speaker 1: a second language are great things to learn. Those are
Speaker 1: skills that grow you as a person. They're not just
Speaker 1: work related skill sets. So honing those things and developing
Speaker 1: in your work career is gonna help you whether you
Speaker 1: go the entrepreneurship route or whether you keep working for
Speaker 1: the man in a traditional nine to job. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: feel like that's the kind of mindset shift that allows
Speaker 1: us to look longer term versus focusing on like the
Speaker 1: immediate steps that folks might be tempted to take now
Speaker 1: in order to like earn a quick buck. Uh So, Joel,
Speaker 1: you know we've talked about like the trade offs of
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship versus a traditional nine to five and you know,
Speaker 1: these are helpful to know before you dive in head first,
Speaker 1: but it's also important to take that plunge right. Maybe
Speaker 1: it makes me think about the Polar Bear Challenge or whatever,
Speaker 1: the guys that like jump into the middle. And sometimes
Speaker 1: you've gotta have that boldness of spirit to just like
Speaker 1: hop in the icy cold waters and sit there for
Speaker 1: a minute. You don't often see the guys just kind
Speaker 1: of easing into the freezing cold water. You gotta go
Speaker 1: for us sometimes, uh, And that's something we would encourage.
Speaker 1: If you feel compelled to to own your own business,
Speaker 1: think through, like what is the worst that can happen?
Speaker 1: You know, even if your business fails, it's going to
Speaker 1: be a learning experience. You can always start another one
Speaker 1: down the road. And if you realize that maybe a
Speaker 1: corporate job is more your speed, like what is keeping
Speaker 1: you from going back? You can always go back to
Speaker 1: corporate America. You've only got one life to live, So
Speaker 1: we would encourage folks to pursue their passions. And if
Speaker 1: you ever feel, you know, like you get a little
Speaker 1: cold feet, think about the potential regrets. I know, I
Speaker 1: definitely don't want to kind of reach the end of
Speaker 1: my life or my working career, wishing that I had
Speaker 1: taken some some steps, had I been a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, a little more emboldened, a little braver. It
Speaker 1: made at the beginning of the the episode we mentioned Alan
Speaker 1: don again. Uh, you know, when it came to you
Speaker 1: know how you don't need a lot of money to
Speaker 1: start a business or any money at all. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so it makes me think of one of his life mottozo,
Speaker 1: which was fail fast and fail cheap. Is so that
Speaker 1: we would encourage folks to take that plunge, you know,
Speaker 1: don't overthink it. Uh, and at the same time avoid
Speaker 1: that business debts. We wouldn't want you in that unfortunate
Speaker 1: position either. Yeah, beginning that startups, starting your entrepreneurship career
Speaker 1: with with very little or or preferably oh debt. I
Speaker 1: think it's great advice, Matt. Yeah, a good point. But
Speaker 1: that was a fun conversation. Matt. Let's get back to
Speaker 1: the beer that we had on the show today. This
Speaker 1: one is called Realities. It's a triple dry hopped honey
Speaker 1: triple India pale Ale by Dissolver Brewing and Good Word Brewing.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, buddy, what were thoughts on this beer?
Speaker 1: I really liked it. Man. I will say, this is
Speaker 1: a brewery, so it's dissolver and it's one of those
Speaker 1: cool spellings where they leave out vowels, so it's d
Speaker 1: S S O l v R. But this is one
Speaker 1: of the newest breweries there in Asheville, and Kate and
Speaker 1: I maybe a few weeks ago now, we took a
Speaker 1: little trip up to Asheville for the weekend and this
Speaker 1: is one of the one of the breweries that we
Speaker 1: stuck our head in and checked out and see what
Speaker 1: was going on. And this is one of the beers
Speaker 1: they had on draft, and so I actually got this
Speaker 1: is the second time I've had this, Buddy, I had
Speaker 1: it on draft there with my lovely wife. But I'm
Speaker 1: glad you not got to share this one. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is a triple dry hopped I P A.
Speaker 1: And I will say, man, it has a lot of
Speaker 1: I p A flavor going on on the front end.
Speaker 1: I feel like you can definitely taste maybe some of
Speaker 1: that honey sweetness going on. But at the same time
Speaker 1: it as it meld and kind of finished out, it
Speaker 1: kind of ended on that little dryer hoppy note. There
Speaker 1: was a nice little one to punch and I'm glad
Speaker 1: this is a beer that you know, I got to share. Man,
Speaker 1: what do you think about this beer specifically? What do
Speaker 1: you think about this artwork. That's the kind of artwork
Speaker 1: I'd put on my wall, man, you know that that's
Speaker 1: that's my style. It's got the little kind of funky
Speaker 1: folk RT vibe going on. Um. And but the beer
Speaker 1: was great too, man, Like I actually I think, honey,
Speaker 1: if it's putting an I p A and it's well done,
Speaker 1: it can just add to the flavors going on. And
Speaker 1: I thought this one did like I thought the honey
Speaker 1: it did lend it that sweetness on the front end.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, just a well made, dry hopped I
Speaker 1: p A with that local honey tossed in there. Made
Speaker 1: for just a pleasurable drinking experience, I'd say. And plus
Speaker 1: it's good to have a beer that's got a lot
Speaker 1: of personality, you know. I feel like this is a
Speaker 1: pretty unique beer. The can art's really unique, The actual
Speaker 1: brewery is super uniquely. They've got a pretty cool vibe
Speaker 1: going on. And so you know, we'd recommend for folks
Speaker 1: that check out this brewery if you are ever up
Speaker 1: in the Asheville area, no doubt. All right, Matt, that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it for this episode for for our listeners.
Speaker 1: If you want the show notes for this episod links
Speaker 1: to some of the resources that we mentioned, just go
Speaker 1: to our website at how to money dot com. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and maybe you are listening to this episode and you've
Speaker 1: been thinking for a while, you know what, I'm going
Speaker 1: to start my own business, And maybe after listening to
Speaker 1: this episode, we have maybe just inspired you just enough
Speaker 1: that you're actually going to get the ball rolling. If so,
Speaker 1: you know, I think a cool place that you could
Speaker 1: let us know about your new business is over an
Speaker 1: Apple podcast. You can leave us a review, and in
Speaker 1: a review, you can tell us what you're planning to
Speaker 1: do with the knowledge that you've gained from this episode.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that, Joel? I like it.
Speaker 1: And if you're particularly planning on starting a brewery once
Speaker 1: you get your first peers, can send us a few.
Speaker 1: We'd love to try them on the show. And that
Speaker 1: is a plea Matt, because we need more craft breweries
Speaker 1: in this country. I think a lot of folks might
Speaker 1: think you're joking, but that's actually true. I don't think
Speaker 1: we've reached a saturation point. You know, the way that
Speaker 1: you and I like to see craft breweries is almost
Speaker 1: as many as there are neighborhoods, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: feel like each neighborhood basically needs his own unique craft brewery,
Speaker 1: just a place for people to gather and for folks
Speaker 1: who kind of hang out, even though we're not doing
Speaker 1: that quite as much these days. But maybe that's you,
Speaker 1: and maybe your new business is going to be a brewery.
Speaker 1: I love to see. It'd be pretty rad, it would
Speaker 1: be well, that's gonna be it for this episode, Joel.
Speaker 1: Until next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,