1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: teen year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams. 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast. I'm a 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: Nius Williams. Today we go one on one with a 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame legend. That's right, my Hall of Fame brother, 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: Brian Dawker is Weapon X, the man called Weapon X. 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: We gotta get into that, find out why they call you. 9 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: I was I guess I would think the X factor 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: played with the Eagles and the Broncos. I don't think 11 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: there's anyone like him. I know, I've never seen anyone 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: on all fours come out the stadium and onto the 13 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: field on all fours. And really, I just when I 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: think of you, Brian, I think of fire Like when 15 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: you come out, they can introduce everybody, but when you 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: come out, fires coming out. He's a defensive back and 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: as a man, this is someone who I admire and 18 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: many or many others admire. Welcome to the podcast, would 19 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: be Dunk. Thank you, Welcome, Thank you for having me, 20 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: glad to be here, Thank you for having me. Brother. 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: Now I want to just start out, because man, we 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: we got rolling before the camera's got rolling, and we 23 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: were talking about Tyranne Matthew, my little homeboy, the Honey Badger, 24 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: and uh, someone has stayed it. He's a hitter. And 25 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: then started talking about how you were a tenacious hitter, 26 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: and then you were getting ready expound on how do 27 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: you identify from your terminology what a hitter is versus 28 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: somebody that's just aggressive. So so I guess and in 29 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: Honey Badger's case, like he is an aggressive safety. He 30 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: is a very versa will do which I love. I 31 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: love the fact that he can do so many different 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: things in the football field. He's not limited by his 33 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: athleticism or by his youth in spacts. His defense nice 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: to play with. He is my defensive defensive back coach 35 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, So I love the fact that he's using 36 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: him all over the field. I think that he is 37 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: more of an aggressive guy that can hit you. He 38 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: is a hitter. He's a hitter. When I think of 39 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: like a like a physical physical dude, like you thinking 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: more of going down the lines of a h Steve 41 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: at Warder back in the war. Yeah, you're thinking about 42 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: guys like uh, cam Chancellor here of recent that's that's 43 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 1: that's different, right, it's different Steve Warden, Yes, absolutely, would 44 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: you include John Lynch? Absolutely, yes, yes, right right, So 45 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: that's there's different levels now now both of them are 46 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: extremely successful in what they do, how they play the game. 47 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: I think the versatility of Honey Badger is something to 48 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: be like Pump more than just the hitting. If you 49 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: just call him a hitter, like you're doing him a 50 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: disservice because he can do so many other things and 51 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: I love to watch him so almost like that specialists 52 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: an interesting thing by him playing the same defense. And 53 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: because now in Kansas City, but your defensive back coach, 54 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: you know what Spags is doing with him, how would 55 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: you describe that part? It's masterful And what m honeting 56 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: Badger is better at me And I'll give him props 57 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: on this. It's like his coverage ability um at this 58 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: level in his career, Like his ability to play in 59 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: the slot and lock cats down like that. I can 60 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: I could play, don't get me. I can play the position, 61 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: but to do it as well as he does it, 62 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: I'll give him props on that. And you were talking 63 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: about in the beginning of this Um, why I love 64 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: the word. I love weapon X. Right, I'll just jump 65 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: into that real quick because this goes right down that 66 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: that path. I love weapon X because, first of all, 67 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: it's Wolverine Marvel character. I love his aggressiveness, his ability 68 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: to anticipate because he was like animalistic almost. Um, he's 69 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: a very physical He was a hand to hand type 70 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: of very instinctive, very instinctive. So he has an animal instinct, 71 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, he can see things and 72 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: smell things before they happen. Right, But the thing that 73 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: weapon X kicked in is that the you said s 74 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: X factor. But his weapon X to me was because 75 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: I was able to be used in so many different ways, 76 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: again as honey Badger is used. I was not just 77 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: the metal safety. I was not just a box safety. 78 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: I covered white house outside, I covered slot cats inside, 79 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: I covered tight ends. I blitched a whole lot. I 80 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: think about also the blitzing, Yes, the ability to disrupt, 81 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: because you are like a linebacker in terms of the force. 82 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: Blitzing like that that back that's blocking you. You have 83 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: making business decisions, you bet well. We mean by business 84 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: decision if somebody listening that don't know, meaning is this 85 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: what you really want to want? This? Right? Do you 86 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: want and you might see and here's the thing with me. 87 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: You may have wanted it the first time? Do you 88 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: want it that second time? Do you want it that 89 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 1: third Because I'm gonna continue to come to the same 90 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: exact pace, the same attack tempo every time I hit you. 91 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: You may run me over that first time, but you 92 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: better come with that same thing that next time because 93 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: I'm coming the same way that's the second time. So 94 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: to me, that was that that was a mindset for 95 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: me as far as the love of contact like I 96 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: I longed for it like a lot of the things 97 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: that I've done successfully, And that's why I kind of 98 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: separate from from other individuals. I called myself a contact 99 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: safety because I love contact that it's not the only 100 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: thing that I could do, which I guess it's kind 101 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: of got me in trouble over the years because people 102 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: only know me as a contact dude, like it, big hits. 103 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: I could do so many other things, but I loved it. 104 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: I loved I loved I love the fact that when 105 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: when when we play specific teams, they wouldn't run specific 106 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: dig routs against us. You know what I'm saying, so, so, 107 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: how do you see the game today now that that 108 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: intimidation factor of that guy roaming in the middle. We 109 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: saw Honey Badger to do it in terms of aggressive hit, 110 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: but now that type of hitting, uh, you don't see 111 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: as much because guys seem to have more caution as 112 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: a result of rule changes. But that aggression shouldn't change 113 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: the rule changes to get the head out of the game. No, 114 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: it should not, and it's a technique thing. So the 115 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: thing about it is if you look at you know, 116 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: if you look at my highlights, there are things in 117 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: my highlights that you can't do anymore. Right, that's the 118 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: the rules have changed. You can't do some of the 119 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: things I did in my highlights. But that in in 120 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: the later parts of my career, I was doing things 121 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: differently because I had to. So you can learn to 122 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: do things differently. You can learn to involve your shoulder 123 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: more your forearm. I would have used my war on 124 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: a moral the problem would just leave with your shoulder. 125 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: Is because of like I got stingers a whole lot. Yes, 126 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: So one of the things that I learned even with 127 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: my m m A training with m m A back 128 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: in the day is like when you hit the ground, 129 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: you're more likely to be injured when your body is 130 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: out and your Williams are spread. Right, when you bring 131 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: things in tight and you can and anticipate the ground, 132 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: you're better able to withstand that contact. So I took 133 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: that same mindset into hitting somebody. Hello, if you could 134 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: have just slipped that in what I didn't know you had? 135 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: M m A. Oh yeah, I used to train with 136 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: ye back in the day. Yeah. How did that correlate 137 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: to how you played the game? All right, So this 138 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: is before um, this is before it just became as 139 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: big as it is. Right, this is and when this 140 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: emphasy stage m m A. And me and actually me 141 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: and Donovan Darius when I was living in Jacksonville, we 142 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: used to try ain't together and we should train with 143 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: a cat by the name of Obaki. He used to 144 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: be one of the cats back in the day, and 145 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: the intensity at which he worked out with it is 146 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: what led me to go speak to him. I'm talking 147 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: about Obaki, and I was like, you know, I just 148 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: watching them. So when I go into workout, man, I don't. 149 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: I don't. First of all, there's no talking going on 150 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: when we work out, like there's no chit chat, no 151 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: laugh and none of that crap. Like we get we 152 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: get in there, we get it. Like. And when I 153 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: saw him and a couple of his dudes work out, 154 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, let me let me see what's 155 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: going on. And so I asked, you know, have you 156 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: ever trained anybody, you know, athletes, um when it comes 157 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: to that stuff. He said, yeah, I've trained some um 158 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: different sports in the past. And I was like, okay. 159 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: I asked, Donovan Derris, you want to train together. So 160 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: we went in there and we got out there man level. 161 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: The training that we did together, UM, some of the 162 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: floor the matt drills that we did, UM. And it helped. 163 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: What it did, It taught me to It taught me 164 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: how to fall. It taught me to how to pride them, 165 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: apply the most forced I could on our body that's falling. UM. 166 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,599 Speaker 1: If I can get in your head from a physical standpoint, 167 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: you're not thinking about your job, just you know, doing 168 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: your the small details of what it needs. You know, 169 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: you're not thinking about a fifteen yard did you might 170 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: run on that twelve and not a talent? Its off 171 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: because you're thinking about a man that did. I gotta 172 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: get in their quikest possible before dog, you know, come 173 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: in a hit because he hit me in the first quarter. 174 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: Where is it? Yeah? Where is exactly exactly? Is there 175 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: anybody today that reminds you of you? You know what? 176 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: I try my best not to do that too, because 177 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: you know, I don't like to take away from anybody 178 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: or make somebody feel like they're might like a little 179 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: brother or something like that. I like the aggressiveness of players. 180 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: I'll just say it like that, like when I say 181 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: I like the aggressiveness of players of their love for contact. 182 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: The dude that I looked up to was Ronnie Lyon. 183 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: So to me, he's the epitome. He's the dude you 184 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: can have all these everybody can come in and have success. 185 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: I believe that he was the total package, like he 186 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: could do every whatever. He was a Pro Bowl at cornerback, 187 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And say correct people forget that. 188 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: So he was he was. He was able to affect 189 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: the game in every way possible, not just in one area. 190 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: That's taking the craft and making sure that no area 191 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: in your craft has a glaring weakness in it. You 192 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: know what, I hear so many times when you think 193 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: of football, you think of brute the strong guys. Right, 194 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: you are strong. A matter of fact, I think Troy 195 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: Vincent said you want the strongliest best athletes he's ever 196 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: played with at any level, right, And I remember him 197 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 1: saying that. But intellectually, what you're saying is there's this 198 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: mental part of this game that requires attention. I guess 199 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: my man more. Shawn Lynch just kind of said, he said, 200 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: if your mental as your chicken. He's hilarious, but I 201 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: love the wisdom that he displayed because this is not 202 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 1: just a group man's fist. It's not it's not a 203 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: it's not a caveman. It's not just me you go hit, 204 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: you go hit. Now. It's not that there's so many 205 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: different things to have. Okay, there's so many different things 206 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: to have greater success in it. You can just play 207 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: the game and just go ex's and owls, but there's 208 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: a lot of grays in the in the game plan, 209 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: and so if you don't allow yourself to go through 210 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: the grays kind of sort of in your mind. I 211 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: said like this, and you probably did the same thing. 212 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: I played the game at least two times before we 213 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: even played it on game day. I have already played 214 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: the game mentally in my mind, I've walked through coverages. 215 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: I've gone through the different scenarios down in distant situations, 216 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: what we could probably be in, what they're probably gonna call. 217 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: I've already seen the play. I've already seen the angle 218 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: tackles my mind even so, and from a broad perspective, 219 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: I've seen that. Then I go to play specific plays. Okay, 220 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: we're playing details from the picture. We're playing the Giants 221 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: this week. Brandon Jacobs. Okay, this is what I need 222 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: to do against Brandon. I need to do this specific thing. 223 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: This is how he likes to do when he gets 224 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: in this situation. This is what he does with the ball. 225 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: He extends the ball away from his body when he's 226 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: anticipating contact, or when he gets contact on the left, 227 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: the ball goes up. When he gets it from the right, 228 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: it does not go up. So I need to just 229 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: make the tackle that way. If he but I hit 230 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: him from the left or somebody before me, he's it 231 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: from the left, I'm going to anticipate going straight for 232 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: the ball, not worrying about him. That's already in my mindset. 233 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: So that's why I can play the game faster because 234 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: I've already seen it. I've already anticipated it. So Brian, 235 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: as I see you know how long you play, sixteen years, 236 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 1: you have mentor guys, you've been involved in the community. 237 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: How do you turn it off? How did Brian turn 238 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: it off? So what I recognize is that UM energy 239 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: is transferable and the same energy and intensity that I 240 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: played the game with. I can use that in other 241 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: areas of my life, and I do it often. I 242 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: use it when I go out and I give motivational 243 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: speeches to different places when I go and even to 244 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: businesses to talk about leadership and the skills that when 245 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: it takes to be a leader. I do that quite often. So, UM, 246 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: what what I often tell the individuals that are in 247 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: attendance is I'm going to invite you into the huddle. 248 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: So when I get up here and I give them 249 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: this speech to you, I'm talking to you like you're 250 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: my teammates. Yes, you're putting them on. Remember the old 251 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: commercial with Michael Vick the virtual Yes, So that's what 252 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: you're doing. Yes. So I can use it and and 253 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: I still work out, you know. UM, I try my 254 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: best to get in there at least two times a week, 255 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: usually five Um, so I'm still getting there, still pushing 256 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: the ore, still running, still doing the sprint intervals in 257 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: the like um from but so I still let Weapon 258 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: Ex or Wolverine come out to play. You know, he 259 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: still could be the first one that actually created your 260 00:13:55,320 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: own character, right because because Brian Dawkins just okay, this 261 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: is where that I did it. Brian Dawkins could not 262 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: survive on the football field. Okay, so help us here. Okay, 263 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: you just spoke in such a way Brian Dawks is 264 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: separate from who I'm talking to, right, please explain? All right, 265 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: So Brian Dawkins is a laid back dude. Man, he's um, 266 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: he's Now when did you realize there were two people here? 267 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: And how did you manage the two people? Wow? I 268 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: would say, um A probably at Clemson College and college 269 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: University of Clemson is when freshman sophomore year, not not 270 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: not Okay, I didn't all of a sudden have that 271 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: at Clemson. I recognize it. At Clemson you discovered I 272 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: discovered it, yes, at Clemson, that he was there two 273 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: different cats and you discovered how what what do you 274 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: remember happening that brought that epiphany? I think it was 275 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: the fact that I was different in the way that 276 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: I expressed it on game day than everybody around me. 277 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: Like I never see people around me getting the way 278 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: that I get before the game. So during practice, who 279 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: are you? It's game? Oh so when I get in 280 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: from practice? Okay? But so in the classroom, who I'm 281 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: laid back? So who I'm loving? Who's who's that guy? 282 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: That's Brian Dawkins. Okay, that's Brian. That's Brian Dawkins. So 283 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: Clark Kent, that's Brian in the classroom. But it's different though, 284 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: see Clark Kent and Superman still calm okay, right right? 285 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: So you you probably have you probably be better off 286 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: going more like hope. But I but I'm more controlled. 287 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: But here's a different What I mean when I say, 288 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: Clark Kent, Superman your power? Yes, yes, I said, are 289 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: you going? It was the power not necessarily how it 290 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: was displayed, but the power was still felt. Yes, So 291 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: how did you manage this? Like when when is easy? 292 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: So was meant for football, is not meant for any 293 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: other area of life. Um, the physical part of it, 294 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: but it's the same thing as far as competing, the 295 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: competition part of it. The energy that I bring to competition. 296 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: So it's not just on football. I was like hyped 297 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: up and ready to go energetic when we played basketball 298 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: defensive stopper, like you know, I can jump out of 299 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: the gym. So it's the competition part of things and 300 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: that arena this, yes, this this part of the guy 301 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: like I can't. I can only be use the energy 302 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: that way in football. Basketball was different. I couldn't be 303 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: as physical, right. I can be physical, but not as physical, right. 304 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: But when it comes to football, because I can like 305 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: let it like all out, I call it, you know, 306 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: control chaos because I can do that. And I was 307 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 1: already someone that had um um extra energy. I call 308 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: it extra energy. Um. And there is a level of 309 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: anger in me um that I've carried from different things, 310 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: cold and stuff and holding pains and holding things people 311 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: have done to me, not being able to verbalize those 312 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: things to get those things are So those are things 313 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: that I was having inside as well. Let's talk about 314 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: so now you and I have talked before and now 315 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: in society and even form of players are relates to 316 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: mental health. What have you learned about mental health and 317 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: how have you connected it to that that anger that 318 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: Brian Dawkins exhibited once in the field of competition. When 319 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: did you realize that there was a level of of 320 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: health that was needed in order to manage life, not 321 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: that you didn't have that outlet. Well, first, I began 322 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: to get really understand it more once I went through 323 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: what I went throughout in my rookie year. Um, the 324 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: depression that I went into as a rookie. As a 325 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: rookie UM during that time, the second round draft pick, 326 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: second round draft pick, get drafted, drafted on the team. Yes, 327 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: and you're going through depression absolutely when you're you're now 328 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: living your dream. Yes, Yes, what happened. So you know 329 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: during that time when you come from where I came from, 330 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: and it wasn't the worst place like in the world, 331 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: but you know, it's tough. It's tough where I grew up. 332 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: And you know, the people of that I see every 333 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: day don't have a whole lot. You know, they have 334 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: good My dad did a great job of working different jobs, 335 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: and we had what we needed, you know what I mean. 336 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: We weren't starving, we weren't a lack for clothes. We we 337 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: we had the things that we needed. We didn't have 338 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: what we wanted all the time county as Duval. I'm 339 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: sorry Jacksonville, Florida, Duval County north south north side. The 340 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: poll of family, you know, they're needing their wanting um 341 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: and pull from coaches, the expectations of being a second 342 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: round draft pick um coming into Philadelphia, you know, one 343 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: of the tougher media markets and fan bases on the planet. 344 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: I would, I would, I would venture to uh guess, 345 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, being a newly wed. Um not not sure. 346 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: Not obviously being a newly wed, you're not comfortable as 347 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: far as this this marriage in the first place. Um, 348 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: baby new am about to be born. He's my rookie year. 349 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, Brian was born the day before my 350 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: first preseason game. Collegue he was colleague. He kind of colleguey, 351 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, crying off. He wouldn't sleep past two hours 352 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: sometimes per per nighte. So no sleep is happening. And 353 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: so it's a lot of pool were away from our people, 354 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: just say like that my family. So there's no way 355 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: for her to get out. Let's be to get a lot. 356 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of a lot of angst, a 357 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: lot of things. And then me being the man that 358 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: I was, I wasn't freeing myself up to communicate, to 359 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: talk to nobody about nothing. So all of that pain 360 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: and all of that frustration, and didn't have no answers 361 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: how to do this or do that. So all that 362 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: stuff is just slowly just grinding away on the inside. 363 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: It's about to explode on the inside. Did anybody know 364 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: any teammates, No, no one. The only person knew that 365 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: I was going through something was was Imit Emma Thomas. Yeah, 366 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: coach uncle, Um, he's the only one that knew something. Well. 367 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: I didn't tell him everything. I just give him what 368 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: I wanted him to hear, just like most of us 369 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: do give people what we want them to hear sometimes. 370 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: But it that took its toll, Um, it really took 371 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: its toll on my I was going through some from 372 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: I called it the dark, the dark place I went 373 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: through that went to that dark place that I didn't 374 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: want to go outside. I didn't want to be around nobody. 375 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to uh And I put on the mask. 376 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: Every day I woke up for the morning and just 377 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: put on the mask, professional put on whatever whatever I 378 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: needed to be. I'm gonna put on that mask. Everything 379 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: is great, everything is wonderful. You know, I'm having the 380 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: best time and all that stuff, but in my quiet time, 381 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: I was being tormented, like my thoughts, the angst not 382 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: having answers and I don't have no way out and 383 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: it's the easiest way out. And then that's when the 384 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: suicidal thoughts begin to come up. And first it was 385 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: every once in a while. Then it became like real frequent, frequent, 386 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: um and then uh, suicide. Oh oh yeah, yeah, did 387 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: your wife know? No, No, she did not know. Wow, 388 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: she did not know. It took it took me a 389 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: long time to tell Connie that that I was going 390 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: through that. So I was I husband, Yeah, And nobody 391 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: really knows, no, because I was a great actor. It's 392 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: a great actor, Oscar winning actor. Jack. I don't want 393 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: to ask you for for the acting I was putting up. 394 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: But it finally took its toll. Finally you know, had 395 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: my outburst that that was that was scary for not 396 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 1: just me, but for Connie. Um, I was getting an 397 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: argument about something, probably with money I would I would 398 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: venture to guess, and uh, I remember running my head 399 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: into the wall boom, big old hole. And so once 400 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: that happened, she called up, she called him it up 401 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: and uh so she knew something. Yeah, and it was 402 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: she she told me to go get help. Uncle excuse me, 403 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: immitt talk to me on the phone of them first 404 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: thing in the morning. I had to go to his 405 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: office and we talked even further and yeah, you gotta 406 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: get some help. And so that I said, okay, I'll 407 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: get some help. And it's still second year. Yes, this was. Yeah, 408 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: this was at the latter part of my rookie year. 409 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: It's when this when this happened. Yeah, and then and 410 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: then we didn't mention we were going to the playoffs 411 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: during that time to just right around yet, so this 412 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: was this is right around at that time. Yeah, so 413 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: Uncle E tell you, okay, get help. Yeah. Now you're 414 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: coming from probably like, uh community where you don't always 415 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: go to get help. No, right, you've seen it's crazy exactly, 416 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: something's wrong with you. You're you're crazy if you go. 417 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: So why did you follow his advice too? Because I 418 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: trusted the dude who's giving me the advice, like, I 419 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: trusted him man like it's I believe that he had 420 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: my best interest in mind as a man, not just 421 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: a layer um. And and I knew I needed help. 422 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: I needed I knew I needed something because what I 423 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: was doing was not working. It was getting worse. Um, 424 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: and I didn't mention I was. I was drinking m 425 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: more heavily, trying to dumb some of the paid Yeah, 426 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: so all that it was not a combination for for 427 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: future success and I needed I needed to get some help. 428 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: So I finally bit bit down and um when they 429 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: got the help that I needed. Um, it took took 430 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: a while to let that person, I guess earned the 431 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: trust for me to open up to him. This is 432 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: going so well, Ryan, We're gonna cut this in half 433 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: and do a part two. Correct. This has been the 434 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request the topic 435 00:24:53,359 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at nfl dot com.