WEBVTT - Trump Loses Dismissal Attempt & Bridge Collapse 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:14.520 Remember when Donald Trump said as president he could declassified 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.560 documents by thinking about it. 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.680 If you're the president of the United States, you can 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:22.320 declassify just by saying it's stay classified, even by thinking 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.720 about it, because you're sending it to mar a Lago 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.639 or to wherever you're sending it, and there doesn't have 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.360 to be a process. There can be a process, but 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.519 there doesn't have to be you're the president. You make 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.520 that decision, so when you send it, it's steak Classwick. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:42.479 Well, the judge handling the criminal classified documents case against 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.559 the former president, seems to be buying into that to 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.760 some extent, and Special Counsel Jack Smith appears to be 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.760 at the end of his rope with Judge Eileen Cannon. 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.000 He took the Trump appointee to task in an almost 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.760 scolding response to her request for jury instructions in the matter, 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.040 with an unto subtle indication that he might have to 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.639 go to the Eleventh Circuit, which has reversed Kenon twice 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.959 in the past. The judge came back quickly today with 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.959 an order that's part win, part loss for the Special Council. 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.440 Joining me is former federal prosecutor Robert Mintz, a partner 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.399 maccarter in English, Bob, Before we get into all the details, 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.319 I'd like you to explain what I think is one 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.200 of the most off the wall claims by Trump that 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:33.440 he transformed national security documents into his own personal property 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:38.200 under the Presidential Records Act, and the prosecutors wrote that 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.160 it would be pure fiction to suggest that highly classified 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:46.080 documents created by members of the intelligence community and military 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.680 and presented to the President of the United States during 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.400 his term in office were purely private. Yeah. 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.680 So what has prosecutors so incensed here is that the 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:01.360 judge is fixating on the Presidential Record Act, which is, 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.600 according to prosecutors, a law that has absolutely nothing whatsoever 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.200 to do with this case. And what they're concerned about 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.840 is that if the judge gives an instruction about the 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:17.440 Presidential Record back to a curate, it essentially nudges them, 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.480 potentially towards an acquittal or possibly even leaving the door 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.280 open for the judge herself to acquit the former president 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.639 at the end of the proceeding by declaring that the 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.560 government has failed to prove its case and the. 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:34.560 Special counsel not only attacks this on the law, but 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.200 also on the facts, and he lays out all the 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.200 facts showing that Trump did not designate the documents as 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:46.639 personal while he was in office, and also when and 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.600 how he quote invented the theory that they were personal 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.600 for the first time in February of twenty twenty two. 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.240 Well, what prosecutors have done is essentially argues that this 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:00.560 is a last minute argument and that there's no factual 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.920 basis in the record whatsoever to even support a claim 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.840 that these records were protected by the Presidential Records Act. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.840 The Presidential Records Act was an active post Watergate to 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.560 clarify what records belonged to the president and what records 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.480 belonged to the public, and the idea was to restrict 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.160 very clearly the types of records that a president could 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.280 remove from the White House when they left office, and 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:31.080 the Presidential Records Acts make very clear that only purely 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:37.120 personal records, records relating to the president's personal activities, health records, 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.680 records related to the president's family, those types of personal records, 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.400 those could be removed, But any records relating to the public, 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:50.560 such as national security, national policy, anything related to the 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:55.280 function of the president acting as president. Those records belonged 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.600 to the White House and were not permitted to be 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.240 removed under the Presidential Records Act. What the defense here 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.400 is trying to argue is that former President Trump transformed 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:10.160 those records, which are clearly public in nature, into personal 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.560 records merely by removing them and taking them to mar 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.520 A Lago. They're not even suggesting that at any point 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.159 in time former President Trump had designated them as personal 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.479 under the Presidential Records Act. And prosecutors pointed to the 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.080 fact that they interviewed all of the people who were 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.320 involved in those records in the White House at the time, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.440 and none of them recall any reference to those records 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.600 being related to the Presidential Records Act. So the defense 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.640 argument goes that simply because they were removed and brought 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.400 to maur A Lago, they were transformed into personal records. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.159 That's something that the prostitution think is absurd on his face, 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:50.599 and even injecting that question into the trial and getting 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.600 in front of the jury would be highly prejudicial to prosecutors. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.839 The Special Council's response seems especially harsh. They flatly say 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.200 the judge got it wrong repeatedly. Quote both of the 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.760 court scenarios are fundamentally flawed. In any jury instructions that 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.560 reflect those scenarios would be error. Sort of a scolding tone. 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.440 Yeah, prosecutors are taking a very aggressive approach with the 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.000 judge here, but I think in their minds they have 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.440 no choice because the judge has yet to make a 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.520 decision on so many important motions that are still pending 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.520 before her, and those could affect the trial going forward. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.480 And the special counsel sort of gave her a nudge 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.720 about a Trump motion to dismiss based on the Presidential 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:41.400 Records Act that she had not ruled on yet, and 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:45.800 lo and behold, she ruled on it today, denying Trump's 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.799 motion to dismiss based on the Presidential Records Act. 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.520 So what the Trump defense team had asked the judge 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.360 to do is to throw out the indictment all together 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:59.320 based upon the Presidential Records Act, arguing that the fact 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.279 that President Trump had removed those records from the White 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.080 House as an indication that he had deemed them to 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.159 be personal records, and that as a matter of law, 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.400 that was enough to dismiss the indictment and there would 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.520 be no trial. Today's ruling is very limited. What it 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.520 does is it says there will be a trial. It says, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.800 at least as far as the Presidential Records Act goes, 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.360 that is not a basis to dismiss this indictment. But 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.279 she does leave open the door to dealing with this 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.080 issue at some point later down the road. She simply says, 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:38.120 the Presidential Records Act is not a basis to dismiss 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.200 this indictment pre trial, but it leaves the possibility that 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.840 the defense will raise this issue at some point during 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.240 the trial. And this whole question about whether the jury 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.080 will be instructed on the Presidential Records Act and whether 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:57.080 or not has any relevance whatsoever to the trial has 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.360 been left open to be decided on another day. 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.719 She pushes back on Smith's challenge to her request for 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:08.080 jury instructions on the Presidential Records Act. She says, separately, 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.400 to the extent the Special Council demands an anticipatory finalization 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.800 of jury instructions prior to trial, prior to a charge conference, 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.240 and prior to the presentation of trial defenses and evidence. 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:25.160 The Court declines that demand as unprecedented and unjust. Is 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.600 his demand to know whether or not she's going to 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.640 allow this defense unprecedented and unjust. 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.880 Well, what Jackspaths trying to do is to smoke the 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.760 judge out on this issue and get a decision one 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.920 way or the other, because of what prosecutors don't want 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.000 to have happened is that the jury gets in paneled, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:48.200 the trial begins, and then this issue is decided, because 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:52.120 at that point, once the jury is impaneled, double jeopardy 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:56.280 attacks and prosecutors will not be able to appeal that decision. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.920 If ultimately Judge Cannon decides that the presidential record is 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.480 a viable defense, prosecutors know that that would be the 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.600 death knell for their case because it would essentially tell 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:12.720 jurors that simply designating records as personal is enough to 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.880 avoid the Espionage Act, and it would entirely get the prosecution. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.280 So prosecutors are trying to get the judge to go 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.200 on record one way or the other on this issue, 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:24.960 and all she's done so far is to say it 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.320 is not something that will prevent this trial from going forward. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:32.120 But she's leaving the possibility that the Presidential Records Act 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.720 will still be an issue down the road, and that's 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.319 something that is going to have prosecutors very concerned, Bob. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.760 Isn't the prosecution entitled to know which defenses the judge 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:44.840 will allow before the trial? 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.640 Generally speaking, that's true. Prosecutors have the right to know 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.360 what the defenses are going to be so that they 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.040 can appeal them if they believe that they have no 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.760 application to the case at all. Obviously, defenses are based 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.240 upon evidence, and so to the extent that the defense 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.200 can raise evidence to suggest that there's some applicability to 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.080 the Presidential Records Act to this case, they'd be allowed 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.840 to raise that defense. But what prosecutors are saying is 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.760 they've interviewed all these witnesses and nobody has said that 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.480 President Trump ever designated any of these records personal under 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.240 the Presidential Records Act. So they're saying there is no 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.720 basis in law and no basis in fact to raise 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.080 this defense, and they want the judge to go on 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.000 record one way or the other whether she's going to 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:33.120 allow it, and so far, she has resisted that attempt 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.920 by prosecutors to pin her down on this issue. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:41.480 And in a final sentence, in response to the Special 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.319 Counsel's threat of going to the eleventh Circuit. She says, 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.120 as always, any party remains free to avail itself of 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.040 whatever appellate options it sees fit to invoke, as permitted 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:57.760 by law. So the Special Council won this order. In theory, 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.600 can Jack Smith go to the Eleventh Circuit and try 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:03.520 to get Judge Canon remove from the case. 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.680 Well, I think prosecutors are going back to the war 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.800 room right now and trying to decide how to respond 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.560 to this decision because they got a ruling, but they 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.920 didn't get the ruling they want because it's only preliminary 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.520 and it doesn't really ultimately decide the question of presidential 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.880 records acting whether or not it will be a part 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.559 of this trial, and I think prosecutors have to come 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.040 up with a way to try to bring this issue 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:29.840 to the Court of Appeals if they can, or to 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.640 force the judge to make that decision at some point 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.400 prior to the trial. As long as she makes the 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.719 decision before the jury's channeled, that gives prosecutors the opportunity 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.560 to immediately appeal that case up to the Eleventh Circuit. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.480 That still, however, does raise the prospect if she waits 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.800 until just prior to trial to address this issue that 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.600 the trial will be delayed, and then that could push 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.200 the trial back after November. So prosecutors are dealing not 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.679 only with trying to get this decision piify, but they 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.280 also want to get the decision clarified as soon as 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.440 possible so that they don't have an appellate delay that 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:08.840 ultimately pushes the trial after November. 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.559 Okay, stay with me, Bob. Coming up next, we're going 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.400 to be talking about Trump's hush money trial. Trump has 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.920 now made eight requests to postpone the trials start, and 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.960 Manhattan Judge Jan Mr. Shawn rejected his latest motion to 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:27.160 postpone until after the Supreme Court determines whether he has 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.840 immunity from prosecution in a different criminal case. I'm June 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:37.240 Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. Federal Judge Eileen Cannon 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.920 denied Donald Trump's bid to get criminal charges in the 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:45.319 classified Documents case drop by claiming that the top secret 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.520 records found that his Florida home were personal. The Special 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.040 Council had vented frustration with the judge after she asked 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:57.000 both sides for jury instructions on the Presidential Records Act 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:01.120 before setting a trial date, saying her understanding of key 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:06.119 legal issues appeared to be fundamentally flawed. However, Canon refused 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:10.559 the Special Counsel's request that she explicitly say the Presidential 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.520 Records Act won't come up in the trial. I've been 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.000 talking to former federal prosecutor Robert Mintz of Macarter and 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.960 English Bob. Judge Canon has many critics because of several 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.680 decisions that don't seem grounded in the law or the facts. 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.160 Well, it's hard to say what's going on behind the scenes, 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:34.079 but I can tell you, based upon many years of experience, 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:39.720 that the way the judges handling this case procedurally is unusual. Typically, 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:43.960 judges will go through a very orderly process in bringing 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.559 a case to trial by resolving these motions to dismiss, 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.800 then moving on to any other motions affecting the evidence 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.120 that could be admitted during the course of the trial, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.760 dealing with dury instructions. There's an order to which these 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.640 things typically go, and she seems to be taking them 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.599 out of order, and that's creating a lot of chaos 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.079 for the prosecution. And there are risks here that if 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.920 these decisions are not made and are not made soon, 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.520 that this case may not go to trial until after 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.520 the November election, and that is something that has prosecutors 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:16.240 greatly worried. 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.280 The Special Council also alluded to seeking a rid of 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.800 mandamus from the Appeals Court in his citations. 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.600 Yeah, prosecutors have alluded to filing a rid of mandamus, 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.320 which is essentially a remedy that can be used to 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.840 compel a lower court to perform an act that is 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.640 ministerial in nature and that the court has a clear 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.920 duty to do under the law. In this case, prosecutors 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.800 are trying to get the judge to make decisions about 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.640 all of these pending motions because they can't appeal those 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.000 decisions until those decisions are made. And the longer the 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.080 judge sits on those decisions and doesn't rule on them, 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.480 the more it jeopardizes this case going to trial before 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.400 the Novment election. So they are getting more and more 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.160 frustrated with the pace of this case and are now 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.080 threatening to take that up to the Court of Appeals 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.440 and essentially argue that this judge has failed in a 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.280 procedural way, not what she ruled, but the fact that 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.280 she has simply failed to rule on motions in a 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:19.120 timely manner. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.080 They've threatened to go to the Eleventh Circuit with some 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:26.520 of her other decisions in the case, and the Eleventh 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.640 Circuit has reversed her Yes. 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.280 Well, as you point out, Judge Cannon was reduced by 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:36.200 the Eleventh Circuit in an earlier related proceeding back in 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.640 twenty twenty two, when former President Trump brought a lawsuit 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:45.760 attacking the FBI's document investigation. In that lawsuit, Judge Cannon 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.960 granted what was an extraordinary request by former President Trump 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.840 for a third party to review the FBI's twenty twenty 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.680 two search of his Mar Lago resort for classified documents. 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.000 But basically happens when a search warrant is executed. As 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.480 a federal agents come in, they remove the documents that 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.680 are within the scope of the search warrant. Those documents 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.840 are brought back to SBI headquarters and then they're reviewed 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.640 by prosecutors to determine the evidentiary value. In a case 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:19.560 in which there's the potential for privileged information to be 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.680 mixed in with those documents, prosecutors will set up a 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.360 separate team of lawyers not involved in the case to 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.120 review the documents, and they then remove anything that could 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:34.920 be considered privileged while walling off the prosecution team from 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.600 ever receiving knowledge of any of that information that is 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.840 between an attorney and a client and should not be 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.680 available to prosecutors. In that case, Judge Cannon ordered what 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:51.280 was an extraordinary and unprecedented decision where she ordered that 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.320 an independent monitor, in other words, somebody separate apart from 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.560 the Department of Justice, had to be brought in to 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.880 review those documents. There was no base in law and 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:05.560 no basis in precedent for inserting that additional layer of review. 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.120 She relied on the fact that because it was a 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:12.680 search of a former president's residence, that it somehow required 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.680 an additional level of scrutiny. The Eleventh Circuit looked at 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.240 that issue and immediately reversed to ruling on that and 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.880 rebuked her for essentially creating a layer of protection for 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.440 a former president that would not apply to any other 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:28.640 citizen of this country. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.920 Some legal experts say, well, there's a risk in doing this, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:37.000 but as I mentioned, the Special Council has threatened to 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.800 go to the Eleventh Circuit before with Judge Kenon, do 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:46.160 you see any risk in the way this document is worded, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.360 or the tone or saying we want to go to 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:50.200 the Eleventh Circuit. 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.680 But I think what procecutes are doing or they are 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.800 trying to ratchet up the pressure on the judge and 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.520 they're making it known to the judge that they will 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.640 not hesitate to take this case the Eleventh Circuit. The 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.159 judge was already rebuked in that prior case, and no 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.879 doubt the judge is mindful of trying to get this 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:12.359 right and not being overturned by the Eleventh Circuit. So 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:16.040 I think cross secutors are trying, in the strongest words possible, 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.240 to state to the judge, judge, rightly or wrongly, you've 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.240 got to make these decisions because if we think you're wrong, 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.200 we are going to go up to the Eleventh Circuit 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.639 and get that review. And they don't want the clock 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.560 to run out before they have that opportunity. 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.520 So let's turn to the hush money case in New York, 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.119 which is now the first criminal case that's actually scheduled 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.200 to go to trial. Trump has now made eight various 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:45.880 requests to postpone the trial start, and yesterday Judge Wan 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:50.600 Mrchan rejected his motion to postpone the trial until after 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:55.560 the Supreme Court determines whether Trump has immunity from prosecution 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.600 in a separate criminal case. Is the judge on sound 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:00.800 round here? 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.160 What we're seeing here is a motion by the Trump 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.400 defense team to try to delay the trial for yet 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.000 another reason, arguing that it ought to be delayed until 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.639 a decision is made by the Supreme Court. In connect 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.320 you with the January sixth insurrection case, which has to 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.359 do with a question of presidential immunity. What the judge 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.359 in the New York case decided was that that issue 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.040 could have been raised a long time ago, and to 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.360 raise it now, only days before the trial is simply 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.760 too late, and so he rejected that out of hand. 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.359 Trump is also asking to delay the trial due to 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:39.280 pre trial publicity, which the Manhattan DA points out is 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.600 of his own making. Also, pre trip publicity. Isn't that 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.800 something that judges normally say, we can handle that in 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.200 the voidir. 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.919 Yeah, whenever you have a high profile case involving a 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.560 high profile defendant, and certainly this case fits the bill 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.600 in every respect. In that regard, you always have jurors 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.320 who have read about the case, who have formed an 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.600 opinion about the defendant, who may have prejudged the case 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.200 that's going to happen in every high profile case where 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.480 all of the pre trial proceedings and all of the 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.159 charges have been in the media for months, perhaps even years. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.879 And so the vuas deer process, which is the opportunity 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.000 for lawyers for both the defense and the prosecution to 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.720 screen out the jurors who because in order to sit 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.639 on that jury, the jurors has to say that they 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.800 have not formed any opinion as to the guilt or 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.480 innocence of the defendant, that they will be able to 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:36.520 make a decision based solely upon the evidence that's presented 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.480 during the trial, That they will not rely on any 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.840 information outside of the courtroom, that they will not talk 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.840 to anybody or read any media accounts of the trial 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.800 during the course of the trial. And that process may 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:53.080 take some time, given the high degree of publicity that 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.879 has predated this trial, but eventually they will find a 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:00.040 set of jurors who meet that criteria. That happens a 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.280 the time, and that will certainly happen in this case. 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:08.240 And Trump also they've renewed their request, which the judge 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.840 turned down once before, for him to recuse himself because 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:17.000 of his daughter's political work for Democratic politicians. The judge 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:20.040 is not going to recuse himself at this point either. 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.520 Why renew this motion? Is it just to put it 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:23.440 in the public light. 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.399 Well, it's hard to say what motivated this emotion again, 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.600 but as you point out, this is exactly the same 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.320 motion that was made earlier when they challenged the judges 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:37.840 impartiality and asked for a recusal based on his daughter's 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.439 job and the judge's own small donations to Democrats. In 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.840 that case, the Judicial Ethics Committee had taken a look 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.920 at this issue and decided that the judges impartiality could 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:54.400 not reasonably be questioned based on his law contribution to Democrats, 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.320 or his daughter's career. And this is basically the same 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.600 motion raised again. There's nothing new about it, But I 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.000 think one thing that may be going on here is 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.480 again playing not to the judge, but playing to the 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.120 greater public. People who are sitting on that jury may 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.320 be aware of this motion. They may come into the 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.199 courtroom and ultimately find their way on a jury. And 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.920 the more that the defense team can project their defense 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.600 arguments to potential jurors even before the trial starts, the 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.560 better they have an opportunity of finding one juror who 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:27.640 might not be willing to vote for a conviction. 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:32.720 Finally, Bob, we have the judge expanding his gag order 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:38.080 because Donald Trump attacked his daughter on social media. The 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.919 district attorney requested this, But is the judge on solid 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.800 ground in expanding the gag order to include family. 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.399 These are rulings that we really have never seen before, 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.640 because we've really never seen a defendant who has attacked 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.600 the judicial system, who have attacked judges, who have attacked 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:59.240 courtroom employees, who have attacked family members of prosecutors and 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.280 judge before, and certainly not a defendant who has the 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:07.639 platform that former President Trump has in order to launch 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.639 these attacks on the judicial system. And so we're seeing 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.600 the judge place in a difficult position trying to allow 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.840 for former President Trump's First Amendment rights to be able 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.600 to speak his mind as to the judge, as to 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.200 the prosecutors. But when he talks about people who are 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.159 not directly related to the trial, and there is a 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.480 certain risk of danger based upon some of the comments 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:33.680 that he makes. That's where I think we're seeing the 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:37.639 judge try to carefully rein that in we'll begin the 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:41.520 trials soon and those comments will no longer really be relevant. 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.919 I think once we see the trial start, all the 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.800 talking will go on in the courtroom and we'll see 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.480 less commentary going on outside of the courtroom as the 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:51.560 trial is unfolding. 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:55.159 And Bob, why don't the judges ever include themselves in 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:56.199 these gag orders? 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:59.680 You know, these gag orders are a difficult balancing act. 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:03.320 There is a First Amendment right of defendants to speak out, 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:06.960 but on the other hand, there's also the judge's obligation 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.320 to ensure that the trial proceeds in an orderly way, 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.280 that jury pools are not tampered with, and perhaps most importantly, 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.120 that people who are involved in the case, whether it's 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:21.040 witnesses or court employees, are not in any way endangered 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.840 by comments that a defendant may make. Generally speaking, the 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:29.600 judge and the prosecutor are considered public figures. They are 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:32.959 considered people who are central to the trial. But at 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:36.320 the same time they have essentially bought into this process. 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.400