Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OKP Daily with Meet
Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody recording pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: we are off celebrating the Labor Day holiday, but as
Speaker 1: always we leave you with fantastic interviews that we pre recorded,
Speaker 1: and today I am very happy to bring you kind
Speaker 1: of a follow up to yesterday's interview with Nadia with
Speaker 1: Shane Diamond. Shane is a consultant at GLAD and spoke
Speaker 1: to us about the importance of their Here We Are campaign,
Speaker 1: which highlights trans people's stories and the fullness of who
Speaker 1: they are. Like I said yesterday, it is too often
Speaker 1: that whenever we're talking about trans people, we're talking about
Speaker 1: horrific policies that are being put out to dehumanize them.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the deaths of black trans women. We're
Speaker 1: talking about their lives in terms of tragedy as opposed
Speaker 1: to the fullness of who these people actually are. And
Speaker 1: we have to understand that narratives matter, right, stories matter,
Speaker 1: and this is why this campaign is so important and
Speaker 1: why I was so thankful for Shane and Nadia to
Speaker 1: stop bi WOKF to talk to us about the importance
Speaker 1: of sharing story and the importance of you know, GLAD
Speaker 1: as an organization and ensuring that people see full and
Speaker 1: complete narratives about queer people and not just what the
Speaker 1: right right wants people to see and rather wants people
Speaker 1: to be afraid of. So coming up next my conversation
Speaker 1: with GLAD consultant Shane Diamond, Folks, I am very happy
Speaker 1: to welcome to wok AP Daily Shane Diamond, who is
Speaker 1: a consultant at GLAD on transgender advocacy and have been
Speaker 1: a part of the Here We Are campaign. Shane talk
Speaker 1: to us about Glad's decision to move into this space
Speaker 1: of telling trans stories from a trans perspective, like having
Speaker 1: people talk about themselves as opposed to being talked at.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, and thank you for having me
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Big fan and really grateful to be
Speaker 2: part of this discussion with you. Todayson, thank you. I've
Speaker 2: been consulting with GLAD in this transgender advocacy position for
Speaker 2: about a year and this project, this campaign called here
Speaker 2: We Are is part of a larger LGBTQ metaging project
Speaker 2: that GLAD is undertaking in part because our CEO and
Speaker 2: executive director, Sarah Kate ellis recognize that there's just a
Speaker 2: lack of positive trans stories and storytelling that is coming
Speaker 2: from trans people ourselves, and this campaign specifically has been
Speaker 2: a a storytelling campaign. How does it look? What does
Speaker 2: it feel like when we put trans people in the
Speaker 2: driver's seat and let them let us tell our own
Speaker 2: stories and be It's been a research project to see
Speaker 2: if the way that we are telling these stories actually
Speaker 2: changes how people think about trans people.
Speaker 1: And want you to tell me there was a time,
Speaker 1: because I'm old so I can say this, there was
Speaker 1: a time when I remember when folks would ask how
Speaker 1: many of you know a person that is and it
Speaker 1: was at the time lesbian, are gay or bisexual? And
Speaker 1: it was in the teens the teens of percentage in
Speaker 1: number of people. Now when you ask people how many
Speaker 1: folks know somebody that is LGBTQ plus, I believe it
Speaker 1: is in like the eighty or ninety percentile. What is
Speaker 1: that number for trans people specifically? Do you know? And
Speaker 1: how has it grown over the years.
Speaker 2: I do know the answer to that, and it's a
Speaker 2: very interesting one.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So GLAD every year conducts a survey called Accelerating Acceptance
Speaker 2: to see where we are as a country in terms
Speaker 2: of LGBTQ acceptance. So some of the questions on this
Speaker 2: year's Accelerating Acceptance Survey, we're about, like what should we
Speaker 2: talk about in schools? Like should kids have access to
Speaker 2: safe schools? And in twenty twenty three, we asked non
Speaker 2: LGBTQ people how many of them knew someone who is transgender,
Speaker 2: and over seventy percent of participants said they did not
Speaker 2: know someone who is transgender. And I just like to
Speaker 2: sort of caveat that with they don't know someone that
Speaker 2: transgender that they know of. So, because this is a podcast,
Speaker 2: I'm a white guy with some scruffy facial hair and
Speaker 2: a bad mustache, and I'm wearing like very hipster glasses
Speaker 2: and a buzz cut and two little gold earrings and
Speaker 2: like a button down shirt with pineapples on it. And
Speaker 2: so if someone met me on the street, they might
Speaker 2: not assume that I'm transgender, right right, So I have
Speaker 2: the privilege of being assumed cisgender. And when when I
Speaker 2: talk about sisgender, it is someone who's gender identity who
Speaker 2: they know themselves to be on the inside, matches the
Speaker 2: sex they were assigned at Earth. So if you see
Speaker 2: me on the street or on the sidewalk or at
Speaker 2: a coffee shop, you might not guess that I'm trans, right,
Speaker 2: So when we say that seventy plus percent of Americans
Speaker 2: don't know someone that's transgender, it's always that they know
Speaker 2: of because the reality is that trans people are here.
Speaker 2: We're in communities. We've been here, you know. We're holding
Speaker 2: down jobs, we're back in groceries, we're trying at parallel park,
Speaker 2: we're having families, having kids. And it is still kind
Speaker 2: of surprising that so many people say they don't know
Speaker 2: someone who's transgender, given that we are in communities all
Speaker 2: of this country.
Speaker 1: And I think that to that point, it is because
Speaker 1: of the fact that not everybody leads with their transness
Speaker 1: right like, So if you are a person like to
Speaker 1: your point, that is, and I'll use the term passing right,
Speaker 1: meaning that I would look and be like, Okay, there's
Speaker 1: a guy in a pineapple shirt, as I think that
Speaker 1: most people would. If I'm not being told directly that
Speaker 1: then you are trans, I could understand. I guess the
Speaker 1: numbers and how that kind of works. And I think
Speaker 1: there was a point in the accelerating acceptance of reporting
Speaker 1: throughout the years where I think that one of the
Speaker 1: questions was do you know I have an LGBTQ person
Speaker 1: in your family, which I think then becomes like a
Speaker 1: bit more specific, right, because then I have intimate knowledge
Speaker 1: of said person, as opposed to do I know anyone
Speaker 1: right exist in the world. Why do you think that
Speaker 1: it is so important to have campaigns like this that
Speaker 1: expressly offer narrative around the different stories and the different
Speaker 1: ways in which people see themselves as trans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to back us up just for a
Speaker 2: hot second, because it's very common usage to say, like
Speaker 2: someone is cispassing. And I said this in conversation with
Speaker 2: a colleague at GLAD who called me in and corrected
Speaker 2: me around the history of passing as a term, and
Speaker 2: that we know the term passing is traditionally historically referred
Speaker 2: to light skinned black black people who are passing for white.
Speaker 2: And in this language where sort of it becomes the goal,
Speaker 2: whiteness becomes the goal, it becomes that the position of power.
Speaker 2: And so if we say someone is passing is white passing,
Speaker 2: it is putting more power into white supremacy. And so
Speaker 2: as we talk about being cis passing, it makes it
Speaker 2: seem like the goal. The goal is to appearance, yeah
Speaker 2: is being cis and that cis being cisgender inherently has
Speaker 2: more power and privilege and is thus desired by trans people.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate that. Please continue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, just you know, it's like we live in
Speaker 2: a country right now where medical access for trans care
Speaker 2: is being banned, and so not every trans person is
Speaker 2: interested in seeking to medically transition, and even for those
Speaker 2: who are interested, they're unable to do so depending on
Speaker 2: where they live. So thinking more about being assumed.
Speaker 1: To be cis gender, got it? Okay, But that was.
Speaker 2: Something that passed on to me because I would I
Speaker 2: said all the time that I was cis passing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh okay, I get it.
Speaker 2: If we look at some of the statistics and we
Speaker 2: see that over seventy percent of people say they don't
Speaker 2: know someone who's transgender, how do we make these introductions
Speaker 2: in a way that can do it on a large scale,
Speaker 2: can do it effectively, and can keep trans people safe
Speaker 2: in the process. Like I know, if you drop me
Speaker 2: in any room, give me ten fifteen minutes, Like I
Speaker 2: can change people's minds on what they think about trans
Speaker 2: people or what it means to be transgender also entire
Speaker 2: and like there's only one of these, thank goodness, And
Speaker 2: so how do we do this on a larger scale
Speaker 2: but also keeps trans people safe? And so much of
Speaker 2: what we've heard and seen about trans people historically is
Speaker 2: trans people who are playing like a tertiary character in
Speaker 2: a show. And it's a lot of dead sex workers
Speaker 2: and you know, people who are addicted to drugs, and
Speaker 2: that's not the narrative for all trans people. And so
Speaker 2: how do we put trans people, as I said, in
Speaker 2: the driver's seat, to tell their own stories and to
Speaker 2: tell their own stories of love and joy and happiness.
Speaker 2: And what affect does this have on people who are
Speaker 2: learning about trans people for the first time.
Speaker 1: I will share with you that my parents have asked me.
Speaker 1: My mother owns a yoga studio and one of her
Speaker 1: students was in the midst of transitioning and was talking
Speaker 1: to her about it. They know that her daughter is
Speaker 1: queer and so you know readily more you know, accepting
Speaker 1: than other people. And my parents were just like, you know,
Speaker 1: help us understand, help us understand and be better in
Speaker 1: terms of how we talk and have conversations around this
Speaker 1: idea of trans, non binary and what have you. And
Speaker 1: what I appreciated about that is that, like, my parents
Speaker 1: are boomers, and for them they were socialized in a
Speaker 1: kind of way, but because their daughter is queer, they're
Speaker 1: much more expansive in their thinking.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: How do you utilize these different stories to kind of
Speaker 1: move people who are seemingly assumed to be rigid in
Speaker 1: their thinking, but they literally just don't know right. They
Speaker 1: just want they want more access to language, they want
Speaker 1: more access to stories so that they can begin to
Speaker 1: wrap their minds around how our society has shifted over
Speaker 1: the last you know, several decades.
Speaker 2: I think that question is really at the heart of
Speaker 2: some of the research and some of the questions we
Speaker 2: wanted to answer ourselves in putting together this campaign and
Speaker 2: this narrative framework. We have been working with ground Media
Speaker 2: on this project for years. Glad and ground Media work
Speaker 2: together on a video campaign two years ago, and they've
Speaker 2: been just a joy to work with and they have
Speaker 2: been spearheading a lot of the research and also the production.
Speaker 2: So if you see the videos and you're like, wow,
Speaker 2: this is wonderfully made, that is all thanks to ground Media.
Speaker 2: But your question about like, how do we with seemingly
Speaker 2: well meeting audiences, how do we help close that gap,
Speaker 2: that knowledge gap, that experience gap in a way that's
Speaker 2: not like you're terrible, we hate you because you got
Speaker 2: this thing wrong. And that's been a lot of what
Speaker 2: this research has been targeted on is what are the
Speaker 2: necessary components in a story being told by a trans
Speaker 2: person in thirty or sixty seconds that can effectively communicate
Speaker 2: their transness and why people should care. And so our
Speaker 2: hypothesis with this really was on the theme of trans truth,
Speaker 2: which is being trans is a real thing. It's not contagious,
Speaker 2: it's not communicable, it's not a whim that being trans
Speaker 2: is as inherent a part of my identity as so
Speaker 2: many other things as being Jewish. As I id, I
Speaker 2: played college hockey, so I will always identify as a
Speaker 2: hockey player, and being trans is an inherent, immute part
Speaker 2: of my identity. And so we came at this trying
Speaker 2: to speak to audiences who were undecided about their opinion
Speaker 2: of trans people. So we asked audiences, we did a
Speaker 2: huge survey before we started, do you think society has
Speaker 2: gone too far or not far enough in their support
Speaker 2: of transgender people? And what we identified as the movable
Speaker 2: or winnable middle were people who responded in the like
Speaker 2: three to seven on a one to ten scale. So
Speaker 2: the way I think about this is, have you ever
Speaker 2: seen Olympic diving?
Speaker 1: I love Olympic diving actually, but yes, good.
Speaker 2: My gosh, I my body does not move like that.
Speaker 1: I don't understand how they enter the warder with no splash,
Speaker 1: but that's got the point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Olympic diving, they throw out you get seven scores,
Speaker 2: and the judges throughout the highest of those score, so
Speaker 2: you're only evaluated on the middle five. And that is
Speaker 2: who are target audiences for this campaign. It's also how
Speaker 2: I try to live by life, like, some people are
Speaker 2: going to think I'm greater than slice bread and they
Speaker 2: are wrong. And some people are going to think I'm
Speaker 2: worse than a paper cut, and they are also wrong.
Speaker 2: And the more that I spin my wheels trying to
Speaker 2: change the opinions of those on the margins, the more
Speaker 2: time I'm getting disheartened and dissuaded by what I'm seeing
Speaker 2: or what I'm not seeing. So you were talking about
Speaker 2: parents were boomers, And the way that we identified this
Speaker 2: winnable middle audience is based on this question of do
Speaker 2: you think society has gone too far or not far
Speaker 2: enough in their support of trans people? And when we
Speaker 2: looked closer at who was in this segment, we see
Speaker 2: people from across the political spectrum. We see people who
Speaker 2: have varied ages, who live all over the country, with
Speaker 2: different levels of income and education. And so by cutting
Speaker 2: this according to issue and not according to political party
Speaker 2: or political ideology, we're able to cast a much wider
Speaker 2: net in who the people are that we're trying to
Speaker 2: move And before we ask people to do something different,
Speaker 2: to behave differently around trans people, to practice better ally,
Speaker 2: ship tips, to do their own research, before we're asking
Speaker 2: the trans people that we meet about their identity in
Speaker 2: their lives, we need to change how people think about
Speaker 2: trans people. And our guess was that if we can
Speaker 2: show people show audiences that being trans is, as you said,
Speaker 2: just another part of someone's identity, are they more or
Speaker 2: less likely to support a friend or a family member
Speaker 2: who's trans, a child who's trands and sort of tertiarily like,
Speaker 2: are they more likely to support policies that benefit trans people?
Speaker 2: And across the board. Our research is showing that yes
Speaker 2: to all of these things, that if we can change
Speaker 2: how audiences think and understand trans people. In thirty or
Speaker 2: sixty seconds, we see a positive increase in how likely
Speaker 2: people are to accept a friend, a family member, a child,
Speaker 2: an acquaintance who's transgender, and increase in their support for
Speaker 2: policies that affect trans people, all by just talking about
Speaker 2: trans people as people who have hobbies and jobs and
Speaker 2: families and lives, love and goals like everyone else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think that, Look, the opposition knows this
Speaker 1: that if I feed you enough stereotypes, if I feed
Speaker 1: you enough fear, then I too can shift how you're
Speaker 1: thinking about people as people. Right, I too can feed
Speaker 1: you this steady diet of dehumanization, so that when it
Speaker 1: comes time to vote on said policy or to vote
Speaker 1: on said measure, that that's the narrative that's going to
Speaker 1: be stuck in your mind. And so what you're doing
Speaker 1: with this campaign is a disruption because in the absence
Speaker 1: of being able to provide people from their perspective and
Speaker 1: give them voice and platform to tell their own stories,
Speaker 1: then their stories are told for them. And we know
Speaker 1: that when those stories are told for them, they're told
Speaker 1: in the negative. Shane with a couple of minutes that
Speaker 1: we have left. As we're several weeks away from the
Speaker 1: most consequential election in our lives. What do you want
Speaker 1: people to think about when they are voting? What do
Speaker 1: you want them to think about when they're voting with
Speaker 1: regard to you know, there have been five hundred plus
Speaker 1: anti trans bills that have popped up across this country.
Speaker 1: There's been so much in terms of trying to dehumanize
Speaker 1: and denigrate this population. What is it that you're hoping
Speaker 1: that this campaign will bring to mind as people are
Speaker 1: voting for, you know, the future?
Speaker 2: Casual question to end us on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good at that.
Speaker 2: I love it. I truly believe that we are all
Speaker 2: capable of good and of love. I don't think people
Speaker 2: are good people are bad people. I think we are
Speaker 2: people who are full of a myriad of sometimes conflicting
Speaker 2: beliefs or ideas. But I believe that we all think
Speaker 2: that we're good people. And one of the things that
Speaker 2: this campaign is really trying to disrupt is those among
Speaker 2: us who believe they're good people, who believe they have
Speaker 2: good intentions, who believe they're doing the right thing, and
Speaker 2: still hold anti transgender or anti LGBTQ beliefs, and part
Speaker 2: of this work is showing that those two things you know,
Speaker 2: you can't necessarily have all the values that you think
Speaker 2: you have and also believe in discrimination and trans people
Speaker 2: are we are the lowest on the food chain in
Speaker 2: terms of privilege and access and rights, and when we
Speaker 2: all have equal rights and equal protections, it benefits everyone.
Speaker 2: And that starts with those of us on the margins
Speaker 2: or who hold intersectional identities. We need to focus on
Speaker 2: those of us on the margins, lifting all of us up,
Speaker 2: and that's how we achieve equitable just societies. So, as
Speaker 2: people are coming into this election, there is so much
Speaker 2: discord around this candidate or that candidate, and people who
Speaker 2: are saying, I don't like either candidate and so I'm
Speaker 2: going to vote this other way. And so what I
Speaker 2: ask people to do when we go into the election
Speaker 2: is not only to think about how the results of
Speaker 2: this election are going to affect your life, but how
Speaker 2: are the results of this election going to affect the
Speaker 2: lives of those that you love? Yep, Because there are
Speaker 2: two very very different possible outcomes, and a number of
Speaker 2: people in this country will not be affected dramatically one
Speaker 2: way or the other, but for the majority of us,
Speaker 2: that's not the case. And so if you're coming into
Speaker 2: the election and you're thinking about how how you're going
Speaker 2: to vote, think about those in your community that you love,
Speaker 2: and also just please vote. You know, I think we
Speaker 2: had like forty percent of registered voters or people of
Speaker 2: voting age in twenty twenty who didn't vote, and that
Speaker 2: that could decide the election. So if you're if you're
Speaker 2: not registered to vote, please register to vote. It varies
Speaker 2: by state, and vote early and vote often if you can.
Speaker 2: Because this is this is our bed and we got
Speaker 2: to make it and then we got to sleep in it.
Speaker 2: We can't do this by ourselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Shane, thank you so much for your work. It
Speaker 1: is extremely important, and thank you very much for making
Speaker 1: the time for WOKA. If really appreciate this and your
Speaker 1: conversation Danielle.
Speaker 2: This has been a true joy. Thank you and for
Speaker 2: all the listeners. The campaign can be found at herewe
Speaker 2: Are now dot com. You can see videos and stories
Speaker 2: from Nadia at GEO and Ashton as they sit down
Speaker 2: with their families and talk about what it means to
Speaker 2: be trans and what it means to love trans people,
Speaker 2: which is not all that different from guessing many of
Speaker 2: our own lives.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on Woke
Speaker 1: af AS always, power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.