1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OKP Daily with Meet 2 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody recording pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: we are off celebrating the Labor Day holiday, but as 4 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: always we leave you with fantastic interviews that we pre recorded, 5 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: and today I am very happy to bring you kind 6 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: of a follow up to yesterday's interview with Nadia with 7 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: Shane Diamond. Shane is a consultant at GLAD and spoke 8 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: to us about the importance of their Here We Are campaign, 9 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: which highlights trans people's stories and the fullness of who 10 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: they are. Like I said yesterday, it is too often 11 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: that whenever we're talking about trans people, we're talking about 12 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: horrific policies that are being put out to dehumanize them. 13 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: We're talking about the deaths of black trans women. We're 14 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: talking about their lives in terms of tragedy as opposed 15 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: to the fullness of who these people actually are. And 16 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: we have to understand that narratives matter, right, stories matter, 17 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: and this is why this campaign is so important and 18 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: why I was so thankful for Shane and Nadia to 19 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: stop bi WOKF to talk to us about the importance 20 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: of sharing story and the importance of you know, GLAD 21 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: as an organization and ensuring that people see full and 22 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: complete narratives about queer people and not just what the 23 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: right right wants people to see and rather wants people 24 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: to be afraid of. So coming up next my conversation 25 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: with GLAD consultant Shane Diamond, Folks, I am very happy 26 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: to welcome to wok AP Daily Shane Diamond, who is 27 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: a consultant at GLAD on transgender advocacy and have been 28 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: a part of the Here We Are campaign. Shane talk 29 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: to us about Glad's decision to move into this space 30 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: of telling trans stories from a trans perspective, like having 31 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: people talk about themselves as opposed to being talked at. 32 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 2: That's a great question, and thank you for having me 33 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: on the podcast. Big fan and really grateful to be 34 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: part of this discussion with you. Todayson, thank you. I've 35 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: been consulting with GLAD in this transgender advocacy position for 36 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 2: about a year and this project, this campaign called here 37 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: We Are is part of a larger LGBTQ metaging project 38 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: that GLAD is undertaking in part because our CEO and 39 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: executive director, Sarah Kate ellis recognize that there's just a 40 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: lack of positive trans stories and storytelling that is coming 41 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: from trans people ourselves, and this campaign specifically has been 42 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: a a storytelling campaign. How does it look? What does 43 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: it feel like when we put trans people in the 44 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: driver's seat and let them let us tell our own 45 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: stories and be It's been a research project to see 46 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: if the way that we are telling these stories actually 47 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: changes how people think about trans people. 48 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: And want you to tell me there was a time, 49 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: because I'm old so I can say this, there was 50 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: a time when I remember when folks would ask how 51 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: many of you know a person that is and it 52 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: was at the time lesbian, are gay or bisexual? And 53 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: it was in the teens the teens of percentage in 54 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: number of people. Now when you ask people how many 55 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: folks know somebody that is LGBTQ plus, I believe it 56 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: is in like the eighty or ninety percentile. What is 57 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: that number for trans people specifically? Do you know? And 58 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: how has it grown over the years. 59 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: I do know the answer to that, and it's a 60 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: very interesting one. 61 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: Okay. 62 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: So GLAD every year conducts a survey called Accelerating Acceptance 63 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 2: to see where we are as a country in terms 64 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: of LGBTQ acceptance. So some of the questions on this 65 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: year's Accelerating Acceptance Survey, we're about, like what should we 66 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 2: talk about in schools? Like should kids have access to 67 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: safe schools? And in twenty twenty three, we asked non 68 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: LGBTQ people how many of them knew someone who is transgender, 69 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 2: and over seventy percent of participants said they did not 70 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: know someone who is transgender. And I just like to 71 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 2: sort of caveat that with they don't know someone that 72 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: transgender that they know of. So, because this is a podcast, 73 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: I'm a white guy with some scruffy facial hair and 74 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: a bad mustache, and I'm wearing like very hipster glasses 75 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: and a buzz cut and two little gold earrings and 76 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: like a button down shirt with pineapples on it. And 77 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: so if someone met me on the street, they might 78 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: not assume that I'm transgender, right right, So I have 79 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: the privilege of being assumed cisgender. And when when I 80 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: talk about sisgender, it is someone who's gender identity who 81 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 2: they know themselves to be on the inside, matches the 82 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: sex they were assigned at Earth. So if you see 83 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 2: me on the street or on the sidewalk or at 84 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 2: a coffee shop, you might not guess that I'm trans, right, 85 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 2: So when we say that seventy plus percent of Americans 86 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 2: don't know someone that's transgender, it's always that they know 87 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: of because the reality is that trans people are here. 88 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: We're in communities. We've been here, you know. We're holding 89 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: down jobs, we're back in groceries, we're trying at parallel park, 90 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: we're having families, having kids. And it is still kind 91 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: of surprising that so many people say they don't know 92 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 2: someone who's transgender, given that we are in communities all 93 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: of this country. 94 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: And I think that to that point, it is because 95 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: of the fact that not everybody leads with their transness 96 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: right like, So if you are a person like to 97 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: your point, that is, and I'll use the term passing right, 98 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: meaning that I would look and be like, Okay, there's 99 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: a guy in a pineapple shirt, as I think that 100 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: most people would. If I'm not being told directly that 101 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: then you are trans, I could understand. I guess the 102 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: numbers and how that kind of works. And I think 103 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: there was a point in the accelerating acceptance of reporting 104 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: throughout the years where I think that one of the 105 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: questions was do you know I have an LGBTQ person 106 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: in your family, which I think then becomes like a 107 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: bit more specific, right, because then I have intimate knowledge 108 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: of said person, as opposed to do I know anyone 109 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: right exist in the world. Why do you think that 110 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: it is so important to have campaigns like this that 111 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: expressly offer narrative around the different stories and the different 112 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: ways in which people see themselves as trans. 113 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to back us up just for a 114 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: hot second, because it's very common usage to say, like 115 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: someone is cispassing. And I said this in conversation with 116 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: a colleague at GLAD who called me in and corrected 117 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: me around the history of passing as a term, and 118 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: that we know the term passing is traditionally historically referred 119 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: to light skinned black black people who are passing for white. 120 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: And in this language where sort of it becomes the goal, 121 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: whiteness becomes the goal, it becomes that the position of power. 122 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: And so if we say someone is passing is white passing, 123 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: it is putting more power into white supremacy. And so 124 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: as we talk about being cis passing, it makes it 125 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: seem like the goal. The goal is to appearance, yeah 126 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: is being cis and that cis being cisgender inherently has 127 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: more power and privilege and is thus desired by trans people. 128 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: And I appreciate that. Please continue. 129 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, just you know, it's like we live in 130 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: a country right now where medical access for trans care 131 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: is being banned, and so not every trans person is 132 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: interested in seeking to medically transition, and even for those 133 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: who are interested, they're unable to do so depending on 134 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: where they live. So thinking more about being assumed. 135 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: To be cis gender, got it? Okay, But that was. 136 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: Something that passed on to me because I would I 137 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: said all the time that I was cis passing. 138 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh okay, I get it. 139 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 2: If we look at some of the statistics and we 140 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: see that over seventy percent of people say they don't 141 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 2: know someone who's transgender, how do we make these introductions 142 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: in a way that can do it on a large scale, 143 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: can do it effectively, and can keep trans people safe 144 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: in the process. Like I know, if you drop me 145 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 2: in any room, give me ten fifteen minutes, Like I 146 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: can change people's minds on what they think about trans 147 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: people or what it means to be transgender also entire 148 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: and like there's only one of these, thank goodness, And 149 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: so how do we do this on a larger scale 150 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: but also keeps trans people safe? And so much of 151 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: what we've heard and seen about trans people historically is 152 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 2: trans people who are playing like a tertiary character in 153 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: a show. And it's a lot of dead sex workers 154 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 2: and you know, people who are addicted to drugs, and 155 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 2: that's not the narrative for all trans people. And so 156 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: how do we put trans people, as I said, in 157 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: the driver's seat, to tell their own stories and to 158 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: tell their own stories of love and joy and happiness. 159 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: And what affect does this have on people who are 160 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: learning about trans people for the first time. 161 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: I will share with you that my parents have asked me. 162 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: My mother owns a yoga studio and one of her 163 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: students was in the midst of transitioning and was talking 164 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: to her about it. They know that her daughter is 165 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: queer and so you know readily more you know, accepting 166 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: than other people. And my parents were just like, you know, 167 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: help us understand, help us understand and be better in 168 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: terms of how we talk and have conversations around this 169 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: idea of trans, non binary and what have you. And 170 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: what I appreciated about that is that, like, my parents 171 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: are boomers, and for them they were socialized in a 172 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: kind of way, but because their daughter is queer, they're 173 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: much more expansive in their thinking. 174 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 2: And so. 175 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: How do you utilize these different stories to kind of 176 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: move people who are seemingly assumed to be rigid in 177 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: their thinking, but they literally just don't know right. They 178 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: just want they want more access to language, they want 179 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: more access to stories so that they can begin to 180 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: wrap their minds around how our society has shifted over 181 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: the last you know, several decades. 182 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: I think that question is really at the heart of 183 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: some of the research and some of the questions we 184 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: wanted to answer ourselves in putting together this campaign and 185 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: this narrative framework. We have been working with ground Media 186 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 2: on this project for years. Glad and ground Media work 187 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: together on a video campaign two years ago, and they've 188 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 2: been just a joy to work with and they have 189 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 2: been spearheading a lot of the research and also the production. 190 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: So if you see the videos and you're like, wow, 191 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 2: this is wonderfully made, that is all thanks to ground Media. 192 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 2: But your question about like, how do we with seemingly 193 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 2: well meeting audiences, how do we help close that gap, 194 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: that knowledge gap, that experience gap in a way that's 195 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: not like you're terrible, we hate you because you got 196 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: this thing wrong. And that's been a lot of what 197 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: this research has been targeted on is what are the 198 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 2: necessary components in a story being told by a trans 199 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: person in thirty or sixty seconds that can effectively communicate 200 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: their transness and why people should care. And so our 201 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: hypothesis with this really was on the theme of trans truth, 202 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: which is being trans is a real thing. It's not contagious, 203 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: it's not communicable, it's not a whim that being trans 204 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 2: is as inherent a part of my identity as so 205 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 2: many other things as being Jewish. As I id, I 206 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: played college hockey, so I will always identify as a 207 00:12:54,440 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: hockey player, and being trans is an inherent, immute part 208 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: of my identity. And so we came at this trying 209 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: to speak to audiences who were undecided about their opinion 210 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 2: of trans people. So we asked audiences, we did a 211 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: huge survey before we started, do you think society has 212 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 2: gone too far or not far enough in their support 213 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: of transgender people? And what we identified as the movable 214 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 2: or winnable middle were people who responded in the like 215 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: three to seven on a one to ten scale. So 216 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: the way I think about this is, have you ever 217 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: seen Olympic diving? 218 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: I love Olympic diving actually, but yes, good. 219 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 2: My gosh, I my body does not move like that. 220 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: I don't understand how they enter the warder with no splash, 221 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: but that's got the point. 222 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, in Olympic diving, they throw out you get seven scores, 223 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: and the judges throughout the highest of those score, so 224 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: you're only evaluated on the middle five. And that is 225 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: who are target audiences for this campaign. It's also how 226 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 2: I try to live by life, like, some people are 227 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 2: going to think I'm greater than slice bread and they 228 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: are wrong. And some people are going to think I'm 229 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 2: worse than a paper cut, and they are also wrong. 230 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: And the more that I spin my wheels trying to 231 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 2: change the opinions of those on the margins, the more 232 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: time I'm getting disheartened and dissuaded by what I'm seeing 233 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: or what I'm not seeing. So you were talking about 234 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 2: parents were boomers, And the way that we identified this 235 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: winnable middle audience is based on this question of do 236 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: you think society has gone too far or not far 237 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 2: enough in their support of trans people? And when we 238 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: looked closer at who was in this segment, we see 239 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: people from across the political spectrum. We see people who 240 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: have varied ages, who live all over the country, with 241 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: different levels of income and education. And so by cutting 242 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: this according to issue and not according to political party 243 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: or political ideology, we're able to cast a much wider 244 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: net in who the people are that we're trying to 245 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 2: move And before we ask people to do something different, 246 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: to behave differently around trans people, to practice better ally, 247 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: ship tips, to do their own research, before we're asking 248 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: the trans people that we meet about their identity in 249 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 2: their lives, we need to change how people think about 250 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: trans people. And our guess was that if we can 251 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: show people show audiences that being trans is, as you said, 252 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: just another part of someone's identity, are they more or 253 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: less likely to support a friend or a family member 254 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: who's trans, a child who's trands and sort of tertiarily like, 255 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: are they more likely to support policies that benefit trans people? 256 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 2: And across the board. Our research is showing that yes 257 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: to all of these things, that if we can change 258 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: how audiences think and understand trans people. In thirty or 259 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: sixty seconds, we see a positive increase in how likely 260 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: people are to accept a friend, a family member, a child, 261 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: an acquaintance who's transgender, and increase in their support for 262 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: policies that affect trans people, all by just talking about 263 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 2: trans people as people who have hobbies and jobs and 264 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: families and lives, love and goals like everyone else. 265 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think that, Look, the opposition knows this 266 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: that if I feed you enough stereotypes, if I feed 267 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: you enough fear, then I too can shift how you're 268 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: thinking about people as people. Right, I too can feed 269 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: you this steady diet of dehumanization, so that when it 270 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: comes time to vote on said policy or to vote 271 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: on said measure, that that's the narrative that's going to 272 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: be stuck in your mind. And so what you're doing 273 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: with this campaign is a disruption because in the absence 274 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: of being able to provide people from their perspective and 275 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: give them voice and platform to tell their own stories, 276 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: then their stories are told for them. And we know 277 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: that when those stories are told for them, they're told 278 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: in the negative. Shane with a couple of minutes that 279 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: we have left. As we're several weeks away from the 280 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: most consequential election in our lives. What do you want 281 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: people to think about when they are voting? What do 282 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 1: you want them to think about when they're voting with 283 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: regard to you know, there have been five hundred plus 284 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: anti trans bills that have popped up across this country. 285 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: There's been so much in terms of trying to dehumanize 286 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: and denigrate this population. What is it that you're hoping 287 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: that this campaign will bring to mind as people are 288 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: voting for, you know, the future? 289 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: Casual question to end us on. 290 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good at that. 291 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: I love it. I truly believe that we are all 292 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: capable of good and of love. I don't think people 293 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: are good people are bad people. I think we are 294 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 2: people who are full of a myriad of sometimes conflicting 295 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 2: beliefs or ideas. But I believe that we all think 296 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 2: that we're good people. And one of the things that 297 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: this campaign is really trying to disrupt is those among 298 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: us who believe they're good people, who believe they have 299 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 2: good intentions, who believe they're doing the right thing, and 300 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 2: still hold anti transgender or anti LGBTQ beliefs, and part 301 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: of this work is showing that those two things you know, 302 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 2: you can't necessarily have all the values that you think 303 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: you have and also believe in discrimination and trans people 304 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 2: are we are the lowest on the food chain in 305 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 2: terms of privilege and access and rights, and when we 306 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 2: all have equal rights and equal protections, it benefits everyone. 307 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 2: And that starts with those of us on the margins 308 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: or who hold intersectional identities. We need to focus on 309 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: those of us on the margins, lifting all of us up, 310 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: and that's how we achieve equitable just societies. So, as 311 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: people are coming into this election, there is so much 312 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: discord around this candidate or that candidate, and people who 313 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: are saying, I don't like either candidate and so I'm 314 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 2: going to vote this other way. And so what I 315 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: ask people to do when we go into the election 316 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 2: is not only to think about how the results of 317 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: this election are going to affect your life, but how 318 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 2: are the results of this election going to affect the 319 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 2: lives of those that you love? Yep, Because there are 320 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: two very very different possible outcomes, and a number of 321 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 2: people in this country will not be affected dramatically one 322 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: way or the other, but for the majority of us, 323 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: that's not the case. And so if you're coming into 324 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 2: the election and you're thinking about how how you're going 325 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: to vote, think about those in your community that you love, 326 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 2: and also just please vote. You know, I think we 327 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: had like forty percent of registered voters or people of 328 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 2: voting age in twenty twenty who didn't vote, and that 329 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: that could decide the election. So if you're if you're 330 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: not registered to vote, please register to vote. It varies 331 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: by state, and vote early and vote often if you can. 332 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 2: Because this is this is our bed and we got 333 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 2: to make it and then we got to sleep in it. 334 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: We can't do this by ourselves. 335 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, Shane, thank you so much for your work. It 336 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: is extremely important, and thank you very much for making 337 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: the time for WOKA. If really appreciate this and your 338 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: conversation Danielle. 339 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 2: This has been a true joy. Thank you and for 340 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 2: all the listeners. The campaign can be found at herewe 341 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: Are now dot com. You can see videos and stories 342 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: from Nadia at GEO and Ashton as they sit down 343 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 2: with their families and talk about what it means to 344 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 2: be trans and what it means to love trans people, 345 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: which is not all that different from guessing many of 346 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: our own lives. 347 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on Woke 348 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: af AS always, power to the people and to all 349 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.