WEBVTT - Mohenjo Daro

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Okay, Tracy

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<v Speaker 1>and listeners. I sort of have to apologize because I

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<v Speaker 1>did not mean to do too ancient cities as topics

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<v Speaker 1>so close together. I think it's fine. We recently did Ephesus,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I was like, Okay, and you know, we've

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<v Speaker 1>talked about before how we try to cycle through things

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<v Speaker 1>so we're not doing the same topic over and over.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know I have definitely been guilty of doing

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of biographies lately. So this time I was like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we did an ancient city. I want to do a

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<v Speaker 1>history mystery this time around. And that actually led me

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<v Speaker 1>to today's topic, which it turns out is another ancient city. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>This city has a unique identity in that, in some

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<v Speaker 1>ways it kind of lacks identity. That is the mystery

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<v Speaker 1>of it. We don't know much about the people who

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<v Speaker 1>lived there because most of the ideas of the cultural

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<v Speaker 1>identity come from analysis of the ruins of the city itself,

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<v Speaker 1>and there are some gaps there about what the people

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<v Speaker 1>that lived there might have been. Like, uh, so we

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<v Speaker 1>are talking today about Mohenjo Daro. We've had some other

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<v Speaker 1>ancient cities that have a similar lack of knowledge about

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<v Speaker 1>what the people who lived there or didn't live there.

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<v Speaker 1>We're like, like, I remember when we talked about Poverty Point,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of debate about how exactly that

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<v Speaker 1>space was used. Um, but yeah, there's just sort of

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<v Speaker 1>a a lot that we're gleaning from the side itself,

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<v Speaker 1>right which, and we'll talk about it more, but that

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<v Speaker 1>has led to some very different interpretations of the ruins

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<v Speaker 1>and the artifacts that have been found there. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of an interesting examination of how it makes me

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<v Speaker 1>think a lot about how our current culture will be

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<v Speaker 1>misinterpreted by the archaeologists of the future, presumably from space.

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<v Speaker 1>So Mahenjo Daro is in the Indus River valley in

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<v Speaker 1>the Sinned province of present day southern Pakistan. It's it's

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<v Speaker 1>about two miles or three kilometers away from the Indus

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<v Speaker 1>River and the city was built around b c. E.

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<v Speaker 1>And so that means it's construction was happening at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time as the Great Pyramids of Egypt. The size,

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<v Speaker 1>organization and evidence of an industry of regulated trade have

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<v Speaker 1>all led archaeologists to believe that Mahenjo Daro was one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most important cities of the Indus Valley civilization,

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<v Speaker 1>also called the Harappan civilization. The other ancient Indus Valley

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<v Speaker 1>city you may have heard about is Harappa, which is

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<v Speaker 1>in the Punjab province of Pakistan. Mahenjo Daro is four

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<v Speaker 1>hundred miles it's about six hundred and forty kilometers southeast

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<v Speaker 1>of Harappa, and it's unclear whether Mahenjo Daro and Harappa

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<v Speaker 1>were active at the same time or whether one came

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<v Speaker 1>before the other, but Mahenjo Daro is one of the

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<v Speaker 1>first known urban centers, and it is the largest and

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<v Speaker 1>best preserved of the ancient Indus Valley civilization cities. The

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<v Speaker 1>name Mohenjo Daro you'll sometimes see written out a number

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<v Speaker 1>of different ways that vary in how they use spacing

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<v Speaker 1>and hyphen nation. Sometimes it's Mohendo with a hyphen, Sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>it's all together as one word. It means mound of

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<v Speaker 1>the dead. But that is of course not the name

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<v Speaker 1>that the city was called when it was inhabited. That's

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<v Speaker 1>the name that was given to it by archaeologists, and

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<v Speaker 1>we really don't know what people living there called it

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<v Speaker 1>while they were living there. One of the things that's

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<v Speaker 1>unique to Mahenjo Daro is its lack of governmental structures.

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<v Speaker 1>There is a marketplace, and there are trading spaces and

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<v Speaker 1>their public spaces, but there are no palaces. There is

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<v Speaker 1>no clear evidence of any sort of hierarchical leadership structure.

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<v Speaker 1>Based on its well organized and thoughtful layout and design,

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<v Speaker 1>Mohenjo Daro may have been a seat of power, but

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<v Speaker 1>we still can't quite figure out exactly with any certainty

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<v Speaker 1>how it was governed. The city covers two forty hectars,

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<v Speaker 1>which is nearly six hundred acres, so that makes it

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<v Speaker 1>about five times the size of the Vatican. Mahento Daro

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<v Speaker 1>has two districts which have been named the Citadel and

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<v Speaker 1>the Lower Town, and again these are names that archaeologists

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<v Speaker 1>have labeled them with. The tallest of the Mohino Daro

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<v Speaker 1>mounds is the home of the citadel. The Great Bath

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<v Speaker 1>is perhaps the most impressive structure of the citadel section

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<v Speaker 1>of the city. It is also probably the most famous

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<v Speaker 1>part of the city. This bath is massive. It is

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<v Speaker 1>thirty nine ft that's twelve meters by twenty three ft

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<v Speaker 1>that's seven ms and the depth of the pool is

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<v Speaker 1>eight feet, which is two point five ms. The bath

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<v Speaker 1>was constructed with bricks that were mortared with gypsum, and

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<v Speaker 1>then to make it water tight, the whole thing was

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<v Speaker 1>sealed with bitumen to enter an exit. There were stairs

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<v Speaker 1>for bathers on either end of the bath. This pool

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<v Speaker 1>at Mohando Daro predated Roman bath by about two hundred years,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was just as impressive as those later structures.

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<v Speaker 1>A nearby well supplied the bath with water and water

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<v Speaker 1>was discarded from the bath via a corbelled drain. Because

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<v Speaker 1>of its size and location in the citadel section of

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<v Speaker 1>the city, it is believed that the Great Bath was

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<v Speaker 1>used for group bathing, possibly as part of rituals, and this,

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<v Speaker 1>combined with the other advanced bathroom facilities and draining systems

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<v Speaker 1>of the city, have led to the conclusion that cleanliness

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<v Speaker 1>was deeply important to the culture of the city. While

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<v Speaker 1>the city had numerous gathering places, it lacked temples or

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<v Speaker 1>other obviously religious structures, and the Great Bath has sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>been suggested as a possible temple. But there's also a stupa,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a Buddhist structure and that shaped like a dome.

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<v Speaker 1>But the stupa at Mohando Daro was built long after

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<v Speaker 1>the city was abandoned. It's estimated that the structure was

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<v Speaker 1>added to the citadel mound as late as the or

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred. Yeah, we'll talk about the timeline of when

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<v Speaker 1>the city was no longer active, but that is long

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<v Speaker 1>after it. So basically like new structures were built on

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<v Speaker 1>top of ruins and that is how that stupa stands

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<v Speaker 1>so high. H The so called Lower Town of Mohenjo

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<v Speaker 1>Daro is based on a grid system, just like any

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<v Speaker 1>modern city. Really, it's sectioned off into blocks with barriers

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<v Speaker 1>constructed from baked mud bricks as well as mud bricks

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<v Speaker 1>that are made in the non big style, which is

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<v Speaker 1>like mud and straw, and then mud was also applied

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<v Speaker 1>to the brick walls to seal them and minimize erosion.

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<v Speaker 1>The lower Town section of the city may have supported

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<v Speaker 1>as many as twenty thousand to forty thousand residents. It

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<v Speaker 1>appears that the city enjoyed a certain level of egalitarian wealth. Ivory, gold,

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<v Speaker 1>and semi precious stones have been found all throughout Mohenjo Daro. Additionally,

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<v Speaker 1>most of the homes seem to have had the same

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<v Speaker 1>basic level of amenities. Just about every house had a

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<v Speaker 1>toilet and a bath that connected to the city's drainage system.

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<v Speaker 1>They are also stairs at most of the homes, suggesting

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<v Speaker 1>either a second story or a terrace roof. Yeah, there

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<v Speaker 1>are very few kind of what we would consider indicators

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<v Speaker 1>of like a lower class residents area. Uh. And some

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<v Speaker 1>of those again are in those those areas that are

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<v Speaker 1>built on top of other ruins, so it does seem

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<v Speaker 1>again very egalitarian. Uh. And there are also some theories

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<v Speaker 1>that that second story or terrorist roof may have been

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<v Speaker 1>part of an effort to avoid flooding. The record of

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<v Speaker 1>art in Mohenjo Daro is a little bit sparse. Any

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<v Speaker 1>decorative elements in the architecture are long gone, and there

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<v Speaker 1>isn't a whole lot of sculpture to indicate the values

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<v Speaker 1>of the people of the city in terms of their art.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a few examples, some of which we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about in just a bit, but for the

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<v Speaker 1>most part, it has been small pieces like jewelry or

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<v Speaker 1>little you know, bits of sculpture that have survived. Mohenjo

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<v Speaker 1>Daro call lapsed as a center of civilization about six

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<v Speaker 1>hundred years into its life sometime around nine b C,

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<v Speaker 1>but the cause of that collapse is unknown. A shift

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<v Speaker 1>in the Indus River might have been to blame because

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<v Speaker 1>it would have really impacted the vitality of a city

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<v Speaker 1>that was depending on river transported trade. There have also

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<v Speaker 1>been theories that the city flooded due to the river shifting,

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<v Speaker 1>and that some of the technology that the city used

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<v Speaker 1>to control water flow actually caused standing water in the

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<v Speaker 1>city streets for a prolonged period of time. But again,

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<v Speaker 1>while there is evidence of some flood damage, this is

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<v Speaker 1>still speculative. We just don't have enough hard evidence, and

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<v Speaker 1>we do know that the entire Indus reverse civilization experienced

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<v Speaker 1>a steep decline around that the sort of landmark year

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<v Speaker 1>of nineteen hundred BC. Coming up, we will talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the excavation that uncovered Mohanzo Daro after thousands of years

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<v Speaker 1>uh shifting. Sands and soil had covered the site during

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<v Speaker 1>that time. But first we will have a little sponsor break.

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<v Speaker 1>As we mentioned before, we went to break over time,

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<v Speaker 1>Mohenjo Daro was covered with soil and it wasn't until

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<v Speaker 1>the early nineteen twenties that the city was rediscovered, and

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<v Speaker 1>at this time the city was first identified among a

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<v Speaker 1>series of mounds, again in the Indus River valley. The

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<v Speaker 1>mounds were mostly covering the city and really the citadel

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<v Speaker 1>was the part that was most apparent, and it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>until nineteen twenty two, as those mounds started to be excavated,

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<v Speaker 1>that the significance and massiveness of this find was truly identified.

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<v Speaker 1>In the nineteen twenties, multiple excavations were conducted on Mohenjo Daro.

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<v Speaker 1>They were headed by the Archaeological Survey of India and

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<v Speaker 1>they were conducted by both British and Indian archaeologists. Excavations

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<v Speaker 1>continued up until the nineteen sixties when all the excavations

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<v Speaker 1>were shut down due to concern over the structures being damaged.

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<v Speaker 1>The weather was a factor, the that they had been

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<v Speaker 1>uncovered also exposed them to the elements more. There have

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<v Speaker 1>been approved excavations since that time. Those have been conducted

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<v Speaker 1>under careful scrutiny and have used non invasive techniques. The

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<v Speaker 1>Pakistani Antiquities Act ninety five put some protections in place

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<v Speaker 1>making it illegal to steal from or to face protected antiquities,

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<v Speaker 1>which included Mahenjo Daro, and the city actually became a

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<v Speaker 1>UNESCO World Heritage Site in nineteen eighty. So throughout the

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<v Speaker 1>many excavations that have gone on at Mohenjo Daro, thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of small artifacts have been recovered from the ruins, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about two of the most famous

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<v Speaker 1>ones and some ongoing examination and theorizing about what they

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<v Speaker 1>mean and their origins and value. So the Dancing Girl

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<v Speaker 1>is probably the most important, certainly the most well known

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<v Speaker 1>artifact of those collected at the Mahenjo Daro site. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a small bronze figure. It's about ten and a half

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<v Speaker 1>inches tall, that's twenty six point seven cent meters, and

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<v Speaker 1>it depicts a woman who is nude save her jewelry.

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<v Speaker 1>And the figure has what appears to be curly hair

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<v Speaker 1>pulled back and a necklace which looks almost like a

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<v Speaker 1>shell on a chain or accord. On her right arm,

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<v Speaker 1>which is quite long and lithes are two bracelets, ones

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<v Speaker 1>it's just above the elbow and one at the wrist.

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<v Speaker 1>And in contrast, the left arm of the figure is

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<v Speaker 1>covered in what looked like bengals from just below the

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<v Speaker 1>shoulder all the way down to the wrist, and if

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<v Speaker 1>you count those little nubs that indicate Bengals, there twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five of them at all. Whether the Dancing Girl depicts

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<v Speaker 1>someone native to the Indus Valley or an African woman

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<v Speaker 1>has been part of the debate about the piece. There

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<v Speaker 1>are indications that there there may have been trade going

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<v Speaker 1>on between Africa and and this valley inhabitants a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of times when there was trade going on. There are

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<v Speaker 1>also people from the different places living there. But the

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<v Speaker 1>identity of the dancing girls inspirational woman is still an

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<v Speaker 1>issue that people don't agree on. There has been a

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<v Speaker 1>case made that her features, including her long limbs, more

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<v Speaker 1>resemble an African woman, but her adornmant her adornments and

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<v Speaker 1>her hairstyle echo more of Indian women throughout history. In

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<v Speaker 1>two sixteen, a controversial paper was published in Itti Haas,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the Hindi journal of the Indian Council of

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<v Speaker 1>Historical Research, and that paper, authored by Dakur Prasad Verma,

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<v Speaker 1>claims that the dancing girl is a representation of the

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<v Speaker 1>Hindu goddess Parvati, the goddess of love, fertility and strength,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is the first time that that idea has

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<v Speaker 1>been floated and it garnered a lot of press, but

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<v Speaker 1>it also got a lot of criticism. The primary driver

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<v Speaker 1>for his conclusion is that Shiva is also represented in

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<v Speaker 1>some pieces found at Mohenzo Daro, and that if images

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<v Speaker 1>of Shiva are present, it only makes sense for his

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<v Speaker 1>wife Parvati to also appear. But even that assertion that

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<v Speaker 1>those other images or Shiva has been contested. But that's

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<v Speaker 1>not the only recent controversy surrounding the Dancing Girl. The

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<v Speaker 1>other is one of ownership. In Pakistani lawyer jeff ed

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<v Speaker 1>Ikabal Jeffrey filed a motion insisting that the Dancing Girl

0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.880
<v Speaker 1>should be returned to Pakistan's Lahore Museum, and according to

0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 1>this motion, the statue was on loan to the National

0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.479
<v Speaker 1>Arts Council of India and was never returned to Pakistan.

0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.760
<v Speaker 1>It's currently in the collection of the National Museum in

0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.480
<v Speaker 1>New Delhi. But the counter story is that the Dancing

0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Girl was moved before British India was partitioned into India

0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.640
<v Speaker 1>and Pakistan in the nineteen fifties. The partitioning is its

0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:44.480
<v Speaker 1>own complicated story um but that that assertion means that

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Pakistan has no right to make the demand for its return.

0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.000
<v Speaker 1>There's not really been a lot of movement in uh

0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.560
<v Speaker 1>in this since that motion was originally filed. Yeah, if

0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.080
<v Speaker 1>there has, it really hasn't been published anywhere that I

0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:01.000
<v Speaker 1>could locate. The dancing girl was discovered in ninety six

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 1>by Indian archaeologist D. R. Sanni and since then her

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.000
<v Speaker 1>meaning in terms of religious significance has been debated, and

0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:13.240
<v Speaker 1>that discussion continues to present day. Most statue artifacts recovered

0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.200
<v Speaker 1>from Mohenjo Daro are terra cotta and a handful or

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:21.640
<v Speaker 1>carved stone, but this bronze figure is a rarity. She's

0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 1>even more rare because while there are other cast metal

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.320
<v Speaker 1>pieces in the area, they tends to be tools and

0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 1>decorative adornments, so a cast sculpture stands out as significant.

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.240
<v Speaker 1>To create any cast metal object, the Harapans would carve

0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 1>it in wax and then place wet clay around the

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 1>carving to dry and create a mold. And then they

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.800
<v Speaker 1>would heat the mold to melt the wax and pour

0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.680
<v Speaker 1>it out through carefully drilled holes. This would leave a

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.440
<v Speaker 1>negative mold which would then be cast with an alloy,

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 1>and this was a one time use mold. They would

0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 1>have to be broken to reveal the final piece. Another

0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>important artifact from the city is a stone sculpture, which

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 1>was named the Priest King by archaeologists, even though there

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 1>is nothing to indicate that he was either of those things,

0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:10.400
<v Speaker 1>and this is a partial piece. It is just the

0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.960
<v Speaker 1>upper portion of the torso and one broken arm, and

0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>the head is very stylized, featuring a face that is

0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.040
<v Speaker 1>proportionately large for the head and a beard sculpted with

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 1>deep vertical lines to create a representation of hair texture.

0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.320
<v Speaker 1>His hair on his head is slicked back, and an

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.920
<v Speaker 1>ornamental headband encircles his head and then has a tiny

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 1>circle at the forehead like an ornamental piece. Over one

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>of the figures shoulders, there's a cloth drape and it's

0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 1>sculpted with ornamental circle and trifoil motifs. The top of

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.480
<v Speaker 1>the head appears to have been sliced flat, and the

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.920
<v Speaker 1>flat area is uncarved with no detail, so people have

0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 1>speculated that there may have been a head dress piece

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.680
<v Speaker 1>that sat on top of it. Similar larger sculptures have

0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 1>a bun that's on top of the head, so there's

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.200
<v Speaker 1>also been theories that a similar hairstyle might have been

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 1>what was intended to sit on this flat portion of

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 1>the head. It's also possible that the back of the

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.760
<v Speaker 1>head was intact initially and somehow it was sheared off

0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 1>by accident. Yeah, there are also some holes drilled into

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 1>the uh the head on the sides that people have

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 1>suggested might be to place like a necklace or some

0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.000
<v Speaker 1>other type of like neck adornment. But I read one

0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>interesting analysis that positive that it was actually those holes

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.000
<v Speaker 1>were actually ways that whatever that ornamental piece that sat

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 1>on top was hooked to the head so it would

0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 1>stay secure. It's an interesting piece. Like I said, not

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 1>everybody agrees on what what any of these things are

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.920
<v Speaker 1>and what their their various details are about. The Priest King,

0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.680
<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned, is broken off just at the waist

0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 1>or just above the waist, so the intact section is

0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.640
<v Speaker 1>just a little less than seven inches at seventeen point

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.840
<v Speaker 1>seven centimeters tall, and he is part of the collection

0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.840
<v Speaker 1>of the National Museum of Pakistan at Karachi. We're about

0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.200
<v Speaker 1>to get into an interesting part of the modern mythology

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.000
<v Speaker 1>around the Mohendo Daro sites, but first we will pause

0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:13.959
<v Speaker 1>for another quick word from sponsors. We have certainly mentioned

0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.199
<v Speaker 1>this already in this podcast, but in the case of

0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:20.680
<v Speaker 1>a site like this one where archaeologists and researchers find themselves.

0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Having to guess at the history of a civilization and

0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:27.720
<v Speaker 1>culture is pretty natural for competing theories to emerge. As

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.399
<v Speaker 1>a side note, if you're wondering whether a system of

0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.080
<v Speaker 1>writing might help figure out the many issues of confusion

0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:38.960
<v Speaker 1>over Mohends history, the Harappan civilization did have one. We

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:43.399
<v Speaker 1>think there are symbols on various excavated artifacts that do

0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 1>look like they might represent a language. But this in

0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.359
<v Speaker 1>this script or Harappan script as it's known, has not

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 1>ever been deciphered. Yeah, there is again debate over whether

0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.480
<v Speaker 1>or not that's actually what it is, even if it

0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 1>is a language. So the massacre myth of Mahenjo Daro

0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.879
<v Speaker 1>is one that began in its early excavations and it

0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.520
<v Speaker 1>persists to this day. It's kind of sensational, so people

0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.679
<v Speaker 1>like to keep it going. In the nineteen thirties, it

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.600
<v Speaker 1>was widely publicized that something terrible had happened at Mahenjo

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Daro because a number of skeletal remains were found that

0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.679
<v Speaker 1>appeared to have died gruesomely. The narrative put forth in

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 1>the first half of the twentieth century was at the

0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.480
<v Speaker 1>city of Mohenjo Daro was wiped out by Indo Aryan invaders.

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.440
<v Speaker 1>There's not really evidence to support that idea. For one thing,

0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.840
<v Speaker 1>all of the bodies found during the early excavations were

0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 1>in the lower city, not in the citadel, and it

0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 1>seems like if people were running for cover or help,

0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:45.879
<v Speaker 1>they would have run to the citadel, not into the

0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:50.199
<v Speaker 1>lower city protection. There were no bodies at all found

0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.440
<v Speaker 1>in the citadel. No weapons of any kind have been

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.680
<v Speaker 1>found to indicate that there was any sort of conflict. Yeah.

0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:02.439
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you uh grow up almost anywhere in

0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.879
<v Speaker 1>the United States, like there are people always finding things

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.240
<v Speaker 1>like arrowheads and like they're just if there is a battle,

0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.120
<v Speaker 1>stuff gets dropped. That's how it goes. Nothing of that

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:17.360
<v Speaker 1>kind has been found in Mahenjo daro Uh. And there

0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.960
<v Speaker 1>is also a high likelihood that not all of these

0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.680
<v Speaker 1>remains are from the same time, and that was actually

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.400
<v Speaker 1>debated even among the archaeologists who first uncovered these remains.

0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.400
<v Speaker 1>As you recall, we mentioned earlier that the city Stupa

0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.639
<v Speaker 1>was built long after the Harrabin civilization is believed to

0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.199
<v Speaker 1>have ended, so there were people making use of the

0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:39.119
<v Speaker 1>city even after it was largely abandoned, and all of

0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:43.360
<v Speaker 1>those time periods maybe coming into play here. Later theories

0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.840
<v Speaker 1>about the bodies that diverged from the idea of an

0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.840
<v Speaker 1>attack or a mask her put forth the idea that

0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.879
<v Speaker 1>the few people who remained after most of the city

0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.120
<v Speaker 1>was empty may have been caught in a flood or

0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.280
<v Speaker 1>a drought that was brought on by the shifting of

0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.120
<v Speaker 1>the Indus River, or some kind of pestilence. So later

0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.080
<v Speaker 1>theories about these bodies that diverged from the idea of

0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.080
<v Speaker 1>an attack or a massacre put forth the idea that

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.920
<v Speaker 1>the few people who remained after most of the city

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.400
<v Speaker 1>was empty might have been caught up in some kind

0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.720
<v Speaker 1>of flood or drought that was brought about by the

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.120
<v Speaker 1>shifting of the Indus River, or maybe some kind of pestilence.

0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.000
<v Speaker 1>It's also possible that a series of floods overtook the

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.360
<v Speaker 1>city over a prolonged period of decline. There's a high

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.440
<v Speaker 1>likelihood that not all of the remains are even from

0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.320
<v Speaker 1>the same period, So it's also likely that there's no

0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 1>one cause of death for all of these bodies. Yeah,

0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.320
<v Speaker 1>sometimes you'll see on kind of sensational sites the secrets

0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.760
<v Speaker 1>of the massacre at Mohenjo Daro, and they kind of

0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:47.520
<v Speaker 1>suggest there's some cover up of something nefarious, but really

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.680
<v Speaker 1>it's it's just kind of one of those cases where

0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.719
<v Speaker 1>it's probably not as dramatic as we maybe think. In

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.160
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen sixty four article titled the Mythical Massacre at

0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.600
<v Speaker 1>Mohenjo Daro, archaeologist George F. Dale's wrote, quote, the enemy

0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.600
<v Speaker 1>of the Hora Pans was nature, aided and embedded by

0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:09.440
<v Speaker 1>the hora Pans themselves, who accelerated the spoiliation of the

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 1>landscapes through improper irrigation practices and by denuding the watersheds

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:19.159
<v Speaker 1>through overgrazing and deforestation. Just less glamorous and exciting than

0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.200
<v Speaker 1>a massacrer, but also makes a lot more sense given

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.560
<v Speaker 1>the evidence we have. So there probably wasn't any sort

0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.040
<v Speaker 1>of mass attack on Mahenzo Daro. And the present day, though,

0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:31.920
<v Speaker 1>the site is in real danger and the threat once

0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 1>again comes from the elements. Salt in the groundwater is

0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:40.120
<v Speaker 1>causing the bricks, which are really fragile, to erode very rapidly.

0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.640
<v Speaker 1>There are very wide shifts in the temperature that are

0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 1>similarly robbing the masonry of its strength, and a lot

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.440
<v Speaker 1>of the walls that were uncovered in the early party

0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:55.560
<v Speaker 1>the twentieth century are crumbling. The ongoing problem of water

0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:59.600
<v Speaker 1>has long been an irritant to researchers. Because of the

0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:03.040
<v Speaker 1>water table in the area, digging has always had challenges.

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.480
<v Speaker 1>But water is a very real threat to the very

0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.600
<v Speaker 1>existence of the Mahenjo Daro site because, in addition to

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.520
<v Speaker 1>the salinity issue uh and the water table, rainfall is

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:19.240
<v Speaker 1>also breaking apart. The fragile brickwork in late monstones flooded Pakistan,

0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:23.920
<v Speaker 1>and Mohenjo Daro was severely impacted by those The stupid

0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.920
<v Speaker 1>developed cracks and the base of the citadel mound near

0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:31.320
<v Speaker 1>the Great Bath had several structural structural failures yeah it

0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:35.200
<v Speaker 1>started to collapse in a couple of places. One conservation

0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 1>effort that has been attempted to save the city's ruins

0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:40.960
<v Speaker 1>involved the use of a mud slurry that was applied

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.200
<v Speaker 1>to the delicate brickwork in the hopes that it would

0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.760
<v Speaker 1>protect it. But when that fresh mud dried and fell away,

0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.239
<v Speaker 1>it was often taking parts of the original structure with it.

0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.080
<v Speaker 1>In some cases, modern bricks have been slotted into spaces

0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.040
<v Speaker 1>where old ones have crumbled, creating a weird mishmash of

0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.679
<v Speaker 1>structural strength that is simply not up to conservation standards.

0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:03.639
<v Speaker 1>In recent years, it has even been suggested that the

0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.080
<v Speaker 1>whole site should be reburied to protect it from the elements.

0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:11.120
<v Speaker 1>After years of falling out of the Pakistani government's jurisdiction,

0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.560
<v Speaker 1>conservation and care for Mohenjo Daro is now in the

0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:18.440
<v Speaker 1>hands of sind provincial authorities and then under that stewardship,

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.879
<v Speaker 1>a committee has been established to address the technical needs

0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.359
<v Speaker 1>of trying to preserve the site. Yeah, there was also

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.720
<v Speaker 1>an instance in fourteen where as part of a cultural

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:34.800
<v Speaker 1>um celebration, there were a lot of people there at

0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:38.679
<v Speaker 1>the site and it was really not good for it.

0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:40.960
<v Speaker 1>So even though they were trying to celebrate the long

0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:43.400
<v Speaker 1>history of it, the care was not taken to make

0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:47.960
<v Speaker 1>sure that that celebration did not have ramifications of damage. Uh.

0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:50.119
<v Speaker 1>And as we close out this look at Mohenjo Daro

0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:52.960
<v Speaker 1>and its ongoing mysteries, I wanted to include another passage

0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:55.119
<v Speaker 1>written by George F. Dales, and this time it's from

0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:58.200
<v Speaker 1>an article written the year after the previous one we quoted.

0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 1>So this one is from nineteen sixty five and he

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.200
<v Speaker 1>wrote quote one of the most intriguing aspects of archaeological

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:07.600
<v Speaker 1>research is the constant ebb and flow of our knowledge

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:10.960
<v Speaker 1>between fact and fiction. There is an ever present need

0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:14.240
<v Speaker 1>to re examine and reevaluate the scattered bits of evidence

0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 1>with which we try to reconstruct the cultural framework of

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:20.960
<v Speaker 1>mankind's climb to the modern world. It is not uncommon

0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:24.400
<v Speaker 1>to find that yesterday's fact is one of today's discarded theories,

0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:27.520
<v Speaker 1>or that what is merely a calculated guest today maybe

0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:31.520
<v Speaker 1>a verified historical maximum tomorrow. And I wanted to include

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 1>that because it's a good reminder that all of this

0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>is uh based on the knowledge that we have, but

0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:40.439
<v Speaker 1>that knowledge can always change, particularly when you're dealing with

0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:45.480
<v Speaker 1>very ancient things, which, again, as He's put it, as

0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.920
<v Speaker 1>part of the excitement of it, also sometimes the frustration.

0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:53.879
<v Speaker 1>Do you also have listener mail for us? I do,

0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:56.320
<v Speaker 1>and this is another ancient city related one because it

0:24:56.440 --> 0:25:00.240
<v Speaker 1>is about our our ephesis episode. This is from our

0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:04.280
<v Speaker 1>listener Margaret, and she writes, greetings and salutations, History buffs.

0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:07.119
<v Speaker 1>I quite enjoyed your episode on emphasis because I have

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:09.639
<v Speaker 1>personally been there and could imagine the sites while you

0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:12.160
<v Speaker 1>spoke of them. My husband and I got quite lucky

0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:14.280
<v Speaker 1>in timing our visit to Turkey in the summer of

0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:19.360
<v Speaker 1>there were terrorists attacks in Istanbul two days before we landed,

0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.200
<v Speaker 1>another one three days after we left, and two weeks

0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:25.399
<v Speaker 1>after we got home they had their military coup. The

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:28.840
<v Speaker 1>group we traveled with has understandably suspended service in that country,

0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:31.520
<v Speaker 1>which is really unfortunate, both of the people who live

0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:35.000
<v Speaker 1>there because tourism augments their economy, and every tour guide

0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:37.840
<v Speaker 1>we spoke to emphasize their belief that you cannot let

0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:40.320
<v Speaker 1>the terrorists affect the way you live or else they

0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 1>are winning, and more selfishly because it was my favorite

0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 1>stop in the Mediterranean. Our visit in Ephesus started with

0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:50.080
<v Speaker 1>docking in the port of Kusadasi and taking a bus

0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:53.080
<v Speaker 1>up into the hills. We passed the original location of

0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:55.560
<v Speaker 1>the town and marveled at how the river Delta had

0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:59.320
<v Speaker 1>accumulated enough sediment to move the coastline almost three miles.

0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:02.800
<v Speaker 1>We disembarked at the ruins of the Basilica of St. John,

0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>where our tour guide let us lead us to the

0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:07.040
<v Speaker 1>edge of the hill and asked, can you see that

0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:09.359
<v Speaker 1>column down there? That is all that remains of the

0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Temple of Artemis, one of the Seven Wonders of the

0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:15.119
<v Speaker 1>ancient world? And she talked a bit about the history

0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:18.080
<v Speaker 1>and significance, and then said, but then there was an

0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 1>earth another earthquake, and things changed, so people took the

0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:23.480
<v Speaker 1>stones from the ruins and built the basilica. She talked

0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:25.600
<v Speaker 1>a little bit about the Basilica and then said, but

0:26:25.640 --> 0:26:28.280
<v Speaker 1>then there was another earthquake and things changed, so people

0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:30.480
<v Speaker 1>took the stones from the ruins and built that mosque,

0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:32.800
<v Speaker 1>which she indicated down on the other side of the hill.

0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:36.199
<v Speaker 1>I love the continuity of it. Your research indicated that

0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:38.199
<v Speaker 1>it is hard to be sure what really happened, but

0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:40.520
<v Speaker 1>I quite liked our guide's version of events. I do too,

0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:42.920
<v Speaker 1>That's quite charming. From there, we went to the House

0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:45.880
<v Speaker 1>of the Virgin Mary and then onto Ephesis proper, which

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:48.760
<v Speaker 1>is amazing. It really is. You should keep it on

0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:51.440
<v Speaker 1>your bucket list. Ironically, it had not been on mine.

0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:54.119
<v Speaker 1>I was actually more excited to go to Istanbul and

0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:57.000
<v Speaker 1>the Hojia Sophia and the Blue Mosque. But Ephesus is

0:26:57.080 --> 0:27:00.080
<v Speaker 1>really lovely and much more pleasant and impressive to go

0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:03.320
<v Speaker 1>through than some other ruins I visited, including the Parthenon

0:27:03.440 --> 0:27:06.399
<v Speaker 1>and Pompeii. I'm not even kidding, uh. And she offers

0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:08.440
<v Speaker 1>to send us pictures, which of course I always love,

0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.000
<v Speaker 1>but I really like that firsthand account of what it

0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:12.879
<v Speaker 1>is like to go as a tourist to a place

0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:14.840
<v Speaker 1>like this, because we talk about them and how it's

0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:18.400
<v Speaker 1>important to remember history and and engage with it when

0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:21.640
<v Speaker 1>you can, but not everybody has the opportunity to travel

0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:24.520
<v Speaker 1>everywhere and and see all these great things. She seems

0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:27.199
<v Speaker 1>very well traveled and really has a grasp of the

0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:29.679
<v Speaker 1>importance of visiting historical sites. So thank you, thank you,

0:27:29.680 --> 0:27:32.560
<v Speaker 1>thank you, Margaret. That was awesome. Uh. If you would

0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:34.719
<v Speaker 1>like to email us, you can do so at History

0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:37.119
<v Speaker 1>Podcast at House of Works dot com. You can also

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:40.040
<v Speaker 1>find us online at missed in History dot com, where

0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:41.840
<v Speaker 1>you will find all of the shows that have ever

0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:45.240
<v Speaker 1>existed of this podcast, including those way before Tracy and

0:27:45.280 --> 0:27:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I were ever on the scene, but for the ones

0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:49.560
<v Speaker 1>that Tracy and I worked on. You will also find

0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:52.639
<v Speaker 1>some show notes included, and we encourage you come and

0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:54.920
<v Speaker 1>visit us at missed in history dot com and we'll

0:27:54.960 --> 0:28:03.040
<v Speaker 1>all play in the History Fund zone together for more

0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:05.720
<v Speaker 1>on this and thousands of other topics. Isn't how Stuff

0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Works dot com. M