Speaker 1: Hey there, folks, this episode of our podcast is going
Speaker 1: to be all about dignity, love and joy as we
Speaker 1: talk about death, we'll explain. Stay with us here, Welcome
Speaker 1: to this episode of Amy and TJ and Robes. I
Speaker 1: say that because we are going to be focusing on
Speaker 1: end of life, which is now. It scares the heck
Speaker 1: out of anybody to think about the end of your life,
Speaker 1: and it's hard to plan for that. But there's an
Speaker 1: organization now that has been around for several years as
Speaker 1: trying to make this a part of life and not
Speaker 1: I guess as daunting of a task or a thought
Speaker 1: as most of us think it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, what do we do when we're afraid of
Speaker 2: something or we don't want to think about something. We
Speaker 2: ignore it. We don't plan for it, we don't talk
Speaker 2: about it, we don't discuss it. And yet when it happens,
Speaker 2: and it is something that is inevitable, we cannot escape death,
Speaker 2: not on one of us. And yet somehow we don't
Speaker 2: talk about it and we don't plan for and you
Speaker 2: leave the burden behind for the people who love you,
Speaker 2: and you also don't take the opportunity to actually be
Speaker 2: a part of that planning and be a part of
Speaker 2: that understanding and it can be a loving, beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: But because it's scary and because we want to avoid
Speaker 2: it and we don't want to talk about it, we
Speaker 2: miss those moments that are there. And so yes, there
Speaker 2: is a group. There was an organization that's been around,
Speaker 2: a nonprofit initiative that is focused. As you say, I
Speaker 2: love this making end of life part of life. That
Speaker 2: is such a concept that I don't think most people
Speaker 2: even think about or have even considered, and yet it's
Speaker 2: so important.
Speaker 1: And the founder of the organization, doctor Joshana Ungerlighter, is
Speaker 1: going to be joining us here now she is on
Speaker 1: the podcast. But not just doctor Hungerlighter. We have with
Speaker 1: us also a name, a face, and a voice. I
Speaker 1: think Robes is familiar to a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Yes, we have Yvette Nicole Brown. You know her love
Speaker 2: she has been I don't know. There are so many
Speaker 2: different television shows and movies. You've been a part of EVET,
Speaker 2: but I think most people know you from community and
Speaker 2: I love that you are now the voice of Coach
Speaker 2: robertson Inside Out Too, one of TJ's daughter's favorite movies.
Speaker 2: So but that's just I mean I could go on
Speaker 2: and on and on naming all of your.
Speaker 1: Accolades that this is wild.
Speaker 3: I am not kidding you.
Speaker 1: I actually asked her ahead of time, can you please
Speaker 1: handle the intro to her? It's just too much, it's
Speaker 1: too much to try to get in there. But welcome,
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both. It's so good to have you
Speaker 1: both with us here on the podcast. Doctor Ungerler. How
Speaker 1: are you doing today?
Speaker 4: I'm well, thank you, Thank you so much for having
Speaker 4: both of us and for having this conversation today, and
Speaker 4: thanks for having us.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And I wanted to ask you how did
Speaker 2: you get involved in this group? Because, as I mentioned,
Speaker 2: this isn't something that most people think about, and I
Speaker 2: think it's something most people don't want to think about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I'm a giver. I lost my mom
Speaker 5: three years ago, as everyone knows. And then I'm also
Speaker 5: a caregiver, so end of life has been, you know,
Speaker 5: in the forefront of my mind for a while. And Shoshana,
Speaker 5: how do we ended up working together? Did you just
Speaker 5: see me in the caregiving space and go she might
Speaker 5: be cool to host this or how did how did
Speaker 5: we get together?
Speaker 4: Exactly? We basically were like vet is incredible. She is
Speaker 4: the most dynamic person and has has walked this journey,
Speaker 4: and so we just felt like it was a perfect
Speaker 4: fit to have you come, you know, host last year
Speaker 4: and then you you smashed it, so we had to
Speaker 4: have you back this year for it for our event.
Speaker 6: And I learned so much you guys about end of life.
Speaker 5: And I mean, the thing that blew my wig back
Speaker 5: last year was death doulas because we've all heard of
Speaker 5: birth doulas. I heard for the first time about death
Speaker 5: doulas when I hosted last year, and there were just
Speaker 5: everybody that came up on the panel. It was just
Speaker 5: more information about conversations we don't want to have, but
Speaker 5: we need to have. And the thing is, you have
Speaker 5: it once you figure out what you want, what you
Speaker 5: what you people want to do and all that, and
Speaker 5: then you never have to talk about it again, you know.
Speaker 5: So it's just important to know. We talk about birth,
Speaker 5: we talk about love and relationships and life and careers,
Speaker 5: we talk about everything except the one thing that's inevitable
Speaker 5: for all of us, we all getting out of here.
Speaker 5: So we need to have a conversation about end of life.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting you just said that because right before
Speaker 2: we came on the podcast, I was talking in the
Speaker 2: studio and I said, death doula. I have never heard
Speaker 2: that term before. And to your point, yes, we've all
Speaker 2: heard about doula's there who helped women give birth. I
Speaker 2: didn't know that was a thing. Tell can doctor a ungerletter,
Speaker 2: can you tell us what a death doula actually even
Speaker 2: is and how prominent are they?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, so a death doula is exactly the same
Speaker 4: thing that one does for the birthing process for new
Speaker 4: moms and families. But at the end of life, it's
Speaker 4: somebody who walks beside you in a non medical fashion
Speaker 4: and supports the the dying person, supports the family, other
Speaker 4: loved ones, and death dula's usually come you know, into
Speaker 4: play in the final weeks of life, but they can
Speaker 4: month's upstream if somebody's terminally ill get involved.
Speaker 5: And even more than months upstream, I found they if
Speaker 5: you are just someone that wants to get your affairs
Speaker 5: in order, you could have a death dula even though
Speaker 5: you're perfectly healthy. And you talk to that person and
Speaker 5: you say, well, when I pass away, I want all
Speaker 5: my jewelry laid out, and I want everybody to come
Speaker 5: and pick up a string of pearls or a ring
Speaker 5: as they celebrate me, or I want this playlist playing
Speaker 5: at my homegoing like you literally just get to plan
Speaker 5: it the way you would plan a wedding, you know,
Speaker 5: and then when the time comes, everything's already laid out
Speaker 5: and everybody knows what you want.
Speaker 1: How exactly isn't this, doctor Aungerler, This is so much
Speaker 1: yes for the person who is passed it, but how
Speaker 1: critical is this for the people who are going to
Speaker 1: be left behind that this these conversations and this whole
Speaker 1: end well concept takes place.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's it's huge. I mean it's it goes well
Speaker 4: beyond the person in the bed, and certainly as it
Speaker 4: relates to the legacy and the planning as far as
Speaker 4: getting your affairs in order, which is I just lost
Speaker 4: my dad, and so I can tell you having those
Speaker 4: conversations ahead of time makes all the difference in the world.
Speaker 4: And then as you navigate the grief journey too once
Speaker 4: once your person is gone, I'm having a death duela,
Speaker 4: and thinking about these things ahead of time I think
Speaker 4: doesn't alleviate the grief, but makes it a little bit easier,
Speaker 4: you know, for everybody who.
Speaker 1: If you found, is more resistant, and maybe a vet
Speaker 1: you can speak to your personal experience, who's more hesitant
Speaker 1: to have the conversation. Like you said, doctor Ungelier, is
Speaker 1: that person in the bed or is it the family
Speaker 1: who's who's most resistant?
Speaker 6: Ends?
Speaker 5: It depends too, because you know, I'm finding with my dad,
Speaker 5: who has dementia, he's it's I feel that he's declining,
Speaker 5: and I feel like it's you know, I hope I
Speaker 5: have him for another fifty seven years, but I don't
Speaker 5: know how long it will be. But I'm noticing that
Speaker 5: he's less concerned with anything here, you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: He's more concerned. He's I feel like the veil has
Speaker 5: been lifted, and he's seeing his mother and his father,
Speaker 5: and he seeing my mom, and so he's already transitioning,
Speaker 5: I feel in a certain way. So it's definitely harder
Speaker 5: for those of us left here to imagine and to
Speaker 5: think about what the next step is for us, you know.
Speaker 5: And there's a lot of conversations that are difficult, but
Speaker 5: it only hurts when.
Speaker 6: You don't have them. You gotta have them. You gotta
Speaker 6: have the tough ones.
Speaker 2: And Doctor Underlighter, I'm curious because I know part of
Speaker 2: your mission is to, you say, challenge societal norms and
Speaker 2: to humanize the death experience, which is such an interesting
Speaker 2: way to put it. Is this something specific to our country?
Speaker 2: Do other countries? Do other people handle this better and
Speaker 2: weave it into the fabric of their lives in anticipation
Speaker 2: of what is inevitable? Or is this something that maybe
Speaker 2: perhaps universally we all avoid What would you say?
Speaker 4: I would say it is pretty universal. I mean, there
Speaker 4: are some select communities and cultures that do talk about
Speaker 4: death or have really amazing ritual around end of life.
Speaker 4: But I would say as part of the modern and
Speaker 4: certainly the Western human experience, we tend to run away
Speaker 4: from these conversations. And how that plays out is that
Speaker 4: and I see this over and over, far too many
Speaker 4: people get care in and around the end of their
Speaker 4: lives that they don't want or maybe they don't understand,
Speaker 4: and ultimately may not help them. So the more that
Speaker 4: we can be kind of talking about this, normalizing this,
Speaker 4: these discussions, or having a relationship to our own mortality,
Speaker 4: I think allows us to live better every day, but
Speaker 4: I think certainly allows us to have a better end
Speaker 4: of life experience when that time does come.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 1: You'll explain what it means. By the end of life experience,
Speaker 1: we assume it's a medical experience that we're exprounded by doctors,
Speaker 1: we're in hospice. You all are trying to shift that
Speaker 1: focus in that mindset. Explain that to us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, it's not that it's a specific time or place.
Speaker 4: We sort of broaden out the end of life experience
Speaker 4: because it can be different things for many different people,
Speaker 4: depending on if you're facing a terminal diagnosis, if you're
Speaker 4: just thinking about advanced age, or they're certainly young people
Speaker 4: you know who who become ill and pass. But it's
Speaker 4: really a continuum of time. And again, it's not about
Speaker 4: saying like you gotta you should die at home in
Speaker 4: your own home, or you should do this or do this.
Speaker 4: It's really a bigger conversation about what it is that
Speaker 4: the individual wants, and ending well is really about ensuring
Speaker 4: that people have the opportunity to live their lives fully
Speaker 4: up until the end, with dignity and purpose and connection
Speaker 4: to the things that really matter most to them. Whatever
Speaker 4: that looks like anything.
Speaker 5: And I want to may I add also, the in
Speaker 5: Well symposium is not a sad experience.
Speaker 6: It is a.
Speaker 5: Joyous life affirming experience because we hear about end of
Speaker 5: life from every different direction, from so many different types
Speaker 5: of people. Some people are doing Tignotaro did a comedy
Speaker 5: bit about it. You know what I mean, like this,
Speaker 5: you're gonna get a this was last year. Well, you're
Speaker 5: gonna get it from every direction, and there will be
Speaker 5: someone there that meets you where you are. If you're
Speaker 5: a scaredy cat, you know, if you're somebody that's like,
Speaker 5: let's go team in, well, like whatever, wherever you are
Speaker 5: on the spectrum, you're going to find someone there that's
Speaker 5: going to speak to exactly where you are, and you're
Speaker 5: going to learn a lot. One of the things I
Speaker 5: learned last year was I don't know the percentage and
Speaker 5: helped me doctor if I get this wrong. But when
Speaker 5: oncologists get a cancer diagnosis, this blew my wig back.
Speaker 6: I didn't even have one on and it blew it back.
Speaker 5: They choose if it's terminal, most of them, and I
Speaker 5: don't know what the percentage was, most of them choose hospice.
Speaker 5: Most of them do not choose the extraordinary measures, which
Speaker 5: says to me one that they understand that when you
Speaker 5: get the terminal. They know what the odds are. You know,
Speaker 5: we all wish for great things and there's miracles that
Speaker 5: happen all the time.
Speaker 6: But they know the.
Speaker 5: Statistics and they know what it looks like. And they
Speaker 5: also have decided how they want those last years, months,
Speaker 5: whatever to be, and they choose to go home and
Speaker 5: be with their families. So at the end of their life,
Speaker 5: knowing what they know, they want family time, you know
Speaker 5: what I mean. So, I mean it helped me think
Speaker 5: about what am I doing every day and how am
Speaker 5: I spending my time every day and what will be
Speaker 5: when it's time for me to face my going on
Speaker 5: to glory.
Speaker 6: I want to spend it with family too.
Speaker 5: But that's a decision I made from hearing them say
Speaker 5: how they do what they do, see what I mean.
Speaker 5: So you learn a lot of things at the symposium,
Speaker 5: A lot of things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was going to ask you, this is
Speaker 2: your second time hosting event, correct this year? I was
Speaker 2: just kind of reading what you all have planned. Can
Speaker 2: you give listeners an idea? This is taking place November
Speaker 2: twenty second in Los Angeles. What are people going to
Speaker 2: see and hear at the symposium this year? Because you've
Speaker 2: got some you've got some big names, and you've got
Speaker 2: some big acts coming on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm gonna I will say, from my perspective, You're
Speaker 5: gonna get great energy, a lot of empathy, a lot
Speaker 5: of compassion, and hopefully a lot of jokes.
Speaker 6: That's what I'm bringing to the table.
Speaker 5: Joshana, what are these other people bring into the table
Speaker 5: that you have lined up for everyone?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's it's at the Skerball Cultural Center in
Speaker 4: la And of course we're going to have Yvette back
Speaker 4: as our as our host, and some other prominent advocates
Speaker 4: will Becoming ten By Locke, who wrote From Scratch, that
Speaker 4: amazing Netflix series. Award winning writer and war correspondent Sebastian
Speaker 4: Younger will be there. We're thrilled to have a special
Speaker 4: guest performance by Miguel Servantes from the Broadway show Hamilton,
Speaker 4: and several other amazing surprise guests. But I would say
Speaker 4: that you know, this is not not a medically focused conversation.
Speaker 4: This is about, you know, the human experience, the spiritual,
Speaker 4: the social, sometimes the financial, the sort of thinking about
Speaker 4: end of life from a design perspective. I mean, it
Speaker 4: really runs the gamut and the audience is full of caregivers,
Speaker 4: of people who've been patients, of folks from the media,
Speaker 4: on policymakers, I mean, sort of faith, community leaders, you
Speaker 4: name it. So it's really about creating an experience that
Speaker 4: anybody can really find accessible and meaningful.
Speaker 1: Do you all think there's to be some policy changes,
Speaker 1: some governmental changes that would change the way we all
Speaker 1: that could help us at end of life, that could
Speaker 1: help the way we view end of life? What are
Speaker 1: we getting wrong at least from a government standpoint? Okay,
Speaker 1: sorry about that.
Speaker 6: A lot of questions.
Speaker 5: I can make a list too, because also because I'm
Speaker 5: in the caregiving space, there's a lot of things that
Speaker 5: we just don't have that we need.
Speaker 6: I love that there's that.
Speaker 5: Hopefully our future president just listed a policy about bringing
Speaker 5: Medicare home, which will help a lot of caregivers in
Speaker 5: the future, because when you think about I want to
Speaker 5: do hospice, your choices are not I'm going to do
Speaker 5: it at my house most of the time because you
Speaker 5: don't have the money to be able to do it there.
Speaker 6: So this could change things. Yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 4: Of there's paid caregiving leave, you know, which is being
Speaker 4: is being talked about because folks who are caregivers. Family
Speaker 4: caregivers often like like you bet said, you know, can't
Speaker 4: can't go to work, and they're certainly not trained and
Speaker 4: how to be caregivers.
Speaker 5: You know, community to take care of my dad, So
Speaker 5: sometimes you got to choose your loved one over your.
Speaker 6: Job, you know.
Speaker 4: And we also have a shortage of providers, right so
Speaker 4: the field of palliative care, of which hospice is part,
Speaker 4: this is these are nurses, doctors, social workers, chaplains. There
Speaker 4: aren't enough of them and so there's actually they're underpaid.
Speaker 4: And so there's a bill right now and it's been
Speaker 4: being looked at for the last ten years to increase spending,
Speaker 4: government spending to allow more trainees to come up through
Speaker 4: the system because we just don't have enough people to
Speaker 4: take care of our aging population. So that's another huge one.
Speaker 1: Did you really say ten years?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, just been sitting there swirling around in Congress
Speaker 4: and it's like a bill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh wow, yes, taking it back old school. I
Speaker 2: love that school of rock, doctor Ungerler, you know, it's
Speaker 2: I don't and I don't know the exact numbers on this,
Speaker 2: but my brother is also an internist and he has
Speaker 2: talked about this end of life decisions and making choices
Speaker 2: to my parents and to my relatives who are getting older,
Speaker 2: and he said something like the like, the largest percentage
Speaker 2: of your healthcare cost over your entire lifetime, don't compare
Speaker 2: it to the final two weeks of your life. It's
Speaker 2: like eighty percent of your health care costs are all
Speaker 2: in the last two weeks of your life. Is part
Speaker 2: of what you're trying to do to prevent that, so
Speaker 2: decisions can be made ahead of time, and oftentimes for
Speaker 2: life saving measures that that patient doesn't even necessarily want
Speaker 2: and is absolutely kind of throwing something at a situation
Speaker 2: that isn't going to change. What do you say to that.
Speaker 4: No, I mean that's accurate. I would say that in general,
Speaker 4: that's sort of an average. Yes, we spend a massive
Speaker 4: amount of money on the final weeks of people's lives,
Speaker 4: and you know, to me, it's I'm not a healthcare economist.
Speaker 4: You know, to me, the numbers are important, But the
Speaker 4: bigger issue, because I became a doctor to help people
Speaker 4: and help heal people, and that is that I really
Speaker 4: want to see people get care in and around the
Speaker 4: end of their lives that honors the life that they've
Speaker 4: lived is in line with their goals and their values.
Speaker 4: And I think that first starts with incentivizing conversations early
Speaker 4: and often within the healthcare journey about your goals, especially
Speaker 4: if you're diagnosed with a life limiting illness, a terminal illness, say,
Speaker 4: And so I think to me, that's the biggest sort
Speaker 4: of issue that comes up for people is that we're
Speaker 4: just not having these conversations. Seventy percent of doctors that
Speaker 4: seven zero aren't trained and had to break bad news
Speaker 4: to patients or talk about prognosis. So where does that
Speaker 4: leave us it, you know, in a system that values
Speaker 4: doing everything to keep people alive at all costs. That
Speaker 4: leaves us in a place where we're just on this
Speaker 4: you know, conveyor belt of aggressive invasive treatment, no matter
Speaker 4: how old you are, no matter how sick you are,
Speaker 4: and even if it won't help you very often. And
Speaker 4: so that's change.
Speaker 6: And maybe if we had the conversations earlier and we
Speaker 6: accepted that it's inevitable, we wouldn't be so afraid of
Speaker 6: it and be chasing one more I need one more summer,
Speaker 6: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: Maybe if we talked about it early, enough and talk
Speaker 5: to our people and made our plans and we could
Speaker 5: just get busy living and then when we get the
Speaker 5: inevitable conversation we all get if it's a sickness that
Speaker 5: takes us out, you're not scrambling to get all the
Speaker 5: stuff in. And I'm trying to extend something that is
Speaker 5: we're not gonna make it everybody. We're not gonna make
Speaker 5: it out of your life. So everybody has an appointment,
Speaker 5: So listen, enjoy it.
Speaker 6: Why you got it prepared for when it comes?
Speaker 1: And in well, in well, I just want that one
Speaker 1: more summer in the Hamptons that.
Speaker 3: Give me one more some of that. I'm sorry, talk
Speaker 3: to people, both of you. There are folks listening to us.
Speaker 1: They are in their twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies.
Speaker 1: Is there a different type of conversation based on the
Speaker 1: age or is it the same conversation and you just
Speaker 1: need to have it as early as possible. What are
Speaker 1: the recommendations you all have for the different age groups
Speaker 1: about what the conversation you should be having thing about
Speaker 1: the end of life?
Speaker 4: Well, I will tell you how I feel about this,
Speaker 4: and then I want to hear your thoughts too, you know,
Speaker 4: as somebody who works in this space. From my perspective,
Speaker 4: it's never too early to start normalizing these kinds of
Speaker 4: conversations again, because I think it can allow you to
Speaker 4: live better every single day. Recognizing that time is short
Speaker 4: gets you to ask these questions about like, well, am
Speaker 4: I living my life with the kind of you know,
Speaker 4: purpose and meaning that I want? Given that I don't
Speaker 4: know if tomorrow is promised right or is a given?
Speaker 4: So I think that that is a really you know,
Speaker 4: beautiful framing. And then you know, as time goes on,
Speaker 4: if medical diagnoses develop, you know, it's a different kind
Speaker 4: of conversation that's a little more medically nuanced maybe, and
Speaker 4: it's also psychologically speaking, and the data support this that
Speaker 4: you know, we don't we can't predict our future selves,
Speaker 4: right or what would be acceptable to us in terms
Speaker 4: of quality of life, because at twenty that's probably different
Speaker 4: than what maybe would be the case at fifty or
Speaker 4: maybe the case at ninety if we are facing you know,
Speaker 4: a terminal illness. So again, like I do, think it
Speaker 4: is important to kind of revisit this stuff throughout life
Speaker 4: and really talk to your loved ones and the people
Speaker 4: you care about about what matters, so that you know,
Speaker 4: God forbid, if you're in a situation where you can't
Speaker 4: advocate for yourself in a healthcare setting, you know you
Speaker 4: got somebody or few people on your team to be
Speaker 4: able to say, Hey, I know Evette, this is what
Speaker 4: she would want in this situation. You know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'll add one of the greatest blessings my
Speaker 5: mother gave me and my brother is from the time
Speaker 5: we were children, we knew what she wanted. She would
Speaker 5: always say, I don't want anything heroic to keep me alive.
Speaker 5: If it's like a breathe in tube or whatever, I
Speaker 5: don't want it. She made it clear, I don't want
Speaker 5: a funeral because I don't want nobody. I don't want
Speaker 5: to provide any space with somebody to come put on
Speaker 5: a show. She said, if they love me and they
Speaker 5: care about me, they should show it while I'm alive.
Speaker 6: So no funeral. So we knew all of this stuff
Speaker 6: our entire lives.
Speaker 5: So when she when it was her moment and she
Speaker 5: they were bringing breathe tubes in and whatnot, me and
Speaker 5: my brother were like, she doesn't want that, and we
Speaker 5: confirmed it. Mommy, you don't want this. She said, I
Speaker 5: don't want it, and she asked to go into hospice.
Speaker 5: And when I tell you, she went into hospice and
Speaker 5: was gone in twelve hours.
Speaker 6: She was like, I'm ready to go. I've seen what
Speaker 6: I need to see.
Speaker 5: But we were able to give her the gift of
Speaker 5: that that dignified passing of her choosing because she had
Speaker 5: always told us from the time we were little, so
Speaker 5: there it's never too early to say I'd like to
Speaker 5: be cremated or I'd like to be and you can
Speaker 5: always amend it. If you decide you don't want to
Speaker 5: go into the furnace, you want to go in the ground,
Speaker 5: you go and tell somebody later, i'd like the ground.
Speaker 6: Please. It's not this is not hard. It only seems hard,
Speaker 6: and it's silly because it's inevitable. Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 2: You said she gave you that gift, but I mean
Speaker 2: you you you also gave her that gift like it.
Speaker 2: It's reciprocal because you now don't have to You and
Speaker 2: your brother didn't have to feel guilty. You all didn't
Speaker 2: have to feel conflicted. You all didn't have to be
Speaker 2: pulled in different directions because you knew because.
Speaker 6: She told you.
Speaker 2: So that's a that's a beautiful conversation because everybody wins
Speaker 2: in that situation.
Speaker 3: Who can raise that?
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Angelira and Ivette, I am almost embarrassed.
Speaker 1: I don't know what my parents want. Like, we haven't
Speaker 1: had this conversation.
Speaker 2: Jay.
Speaker 5: When we get off this zoom, you call your parents
Speaker 5: and you ask them what they want. Do they want
Speaker 5: to be buried or cremated? Do they want heroic efforts?
Speaker 5: You need to know this because I'm telling you, when
Speaker 5: you're fit, when a moment happens and you're looking at
Speaker 5: them in the bed, everything within you is going to
Speaker 5: be like extendment why yeah, And they may not want it.
Speaker 2: And that's why they may not want it, because you
Speaker 2: don't want to let go.
Speaker 6: You don't you know.
Speaker 2: I will tell you it was only until I had
Speaker 2: my cancer diagnosis where I went in the night before
Speaker 2: my double mistectomy and I went in to a lawyer's
Speaker 2: office at seven pm at night and I begged him
Speaker 2: to stay open for me and I made my will
Speaker 2: that it took me getting a cancer diagnosis and going
Speaker 2: into major surgery and thinking, oh my god, I have
Speaker 2: to get my you know, my estate in order I
Speaker 2: have to let people know what I want to happen.
Speaker 2: If worst case scenario ends up being reality and it
Speaker 2: took something dramatic like that, I've amended my will since then.
Speaker 2: But I will say I feel I feel relief knowing
Speaker 2: that my daughters aren't going to have to make tough decisions.
Speaker 2: TJ is not going to have to make tough decisions,
Speaker 2: My parents aren't going to have to make tough decisions
Speaker 2: because I have laid it all out. No, I don't
Speaker 2: want to be in the ocean.
Speaker 6: The last place a cherry tree planted on top of
Speaker 6: my ashes. And how lovely and how lovely is that
Speaker 6: you didn't send the cherry tree.
Speaker 5: And every time somebody walk by a cherry tree, whether
Speaker 5: it's you or not, they're going to think of you.
Speaker 6: It's a beautiful gift to give to you. It's wonderful, wonderful,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 4: And in truth, we don't know what tomorrow is going
Speaker 4: to bring, right, you know, a diagnosis can happen at
Speaker 4: any time, you know, step.
Speaker 5: Off the wrong curb and go on to glory. So listen,
Speaker 5: y'all be out there running. Y'all run too much and
Speaker 5: not know what you want, you be in them straights
Speaker 5: with your cars.
Speaker 6: You better tell people what you want now, and I
Speaker 6: wish none of that on you, but you've got to
Speaker 6: tell people what you want.
Speaker 1: You all, remember when I started this podcast episode by saying, dignity,
Speaker 1: love and joy, and I can't believe we are four
Speaker 1: of us have been sitting here, laughing and cutting up,
Speaker 1: and this whole conversation has been about death essentially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, but that brings in the opportunity to experience life,
Speaker 2: and it frees you up from thinking about it because
Speaker 2: you've already planned it, you've already said we you want it,
Speaker 2: and you don't have to dwell on it. I had
Speaker 2: so much fun googling you and falling in love with
Speaker 2: your love story, so I know tomorrow could be our
Speaker 2: last day. You gotta get busy living. So when's that
Speaker 2: wedding happening.
Speaker 5: It's going to be before the years up. Nice, I'm
Speaker 5: mid planning. We're planning right now. So it's been a
Speaker 5: mad scramble to get everything done before the years up.
Speaker 5: But before twenty twenty five. Kids, if I live to
Speaker 5: see it, I will be missus Davis.
Speaker 1: Where we going?
Speaker 6: Listen, I'm trying to figure that out too, destination.
Speaker 2: We just letting you know.
Speaker 5: Perhaps I might, we don't know. We still when I
Speaker 5: say scrambling, I mean scrambling.
Speaker 1: You know what congratulates your story is a if folks
Speaker 1: don't know it, google it. But it has been a
Speaker 1: beautiful story that certainly speaks to us in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. And we'll have to tell you as well
Speaker 1: as we let you go. It was so cool this
Speaker 1: morning that we were getting ready at the house for
Speaker 1: my daughter, eleven year old daughter saving to go to school,
Speaker 1: and we were talking about you, and we said inside
Speaker 1: out too, and she said, well, who is it? And
Speaker 1: we said your name. She was immediately able to identify
Speaker 1: coach Roberts from inside out too, and she said a
Speaker 1: hockey coach. I said, a black hockey coach. That was
Speaker 1: my response.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen the movie myself.
Speaker 2: She said, a black female hockey coach, female hockey coach.
Speaker 1: But think about that. She if you she passed her
Speaker 1: on the street, she would have no idea about your face.
Speaker 1: But you have such an impact with your name, with
Speaker 1: your voice, with your character that even my eleven year
Speaker 1: old daughter this morning was like boom, boom, boom, and
Speaker 1: right on top of it. So I appreciate, very happy,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you being here, but I just want to
Speaker 1: share that story. It just happened this morning, and how
Speaker 1: cool of an impact you are having and so much
Speaker 1: of what you're doing, and doctor Unger Lauder as well.
Speaker 1: To recruit event into that cause and to have you
Speaker 1: both here is really really a treat for us.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 2: You've got us thinking, I don't know how TJ wants
Speaker 2: to go, So we'll have that conversation afterwards. I'll be
Speaker 2: writing it.
Speaker 1: Down as late as possible.
Speaker 2: Today today, Thank you, ladies, and have a wonderful symposium.
Speaker 2: We love what you're doing and it's got us all thinking.
Speaker 2: I hope everyone listening is also making those notes in
Speaker 2: their head and wanting to have those conversations with their
Speaker 2: loved ones. It's so important and we just appreciate you
Speaker 2: being here on the podcast.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having us.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 2: Theation, bad
Speaker 3: Bcations, the patents,