WEBVTT - Margo Price 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.840 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsteads Podcast. My 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:16.200 guest today is Margot Price, who has a new album, 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:20.640 Hard Hitted Woman. Margot, you went back to using Matt 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.280 ross Bang as a producer like you did on your 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:26.280 first two big time albums. Tell me about that. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:34.560 Matt has been just so instrumental and in the shape 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:39.360 of my sound, and I knew that I wanted to 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.040 work with him again. It had been a minute, and 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.520 I think we've both just grown a lot since those 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.839 first couple records. Matt's worked on some huge things, and 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.000 he's just the type of person that's married to his work. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.400 He's so in love with being in the studio and 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.760 making the song be the best it can be. So 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.640 when I, yeah, when I talked to him about getting 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:09.040 back in there together, we were both just thrilled. It was. 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:12.480 It was a great experience, It really was. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.199 Okay, tell the story about how you met Matt going 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:17.959 to Sun Studios. 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:24.440 Yeah, Matt worked there at Sun for years and years, 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.320 and he was an engineer there. He also gave tours. 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.000 That's kind of how I first stumbled upon Son. I 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:36.200 was on a musical tour stopped in Memphis, on my 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.880 way to Texas and literally saw a little you know 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.280 sign in the gift shop that said make your own recording, 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.280 and so I reached out called the number. And Matt 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:50.920 was the engineer there at the time, and he soaked 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:56.400 up so much of the you know, recording knowledge from 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.600 Sam Phillips and and you know, the old school way 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:04.600 of doing things. I like a lot of music from 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.919 the eras that he is familiar with, you know, those 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:13.400 tape machines and all the kind of organic ways of 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.680 doing stuff. And I think that's where we where we 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:17.440 really vibe. 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.480 Okay, you say that since you first worked with him, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.040 you've both grown. Tell me about that. 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:27.960 I think when I got in there to make that 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.680 first record, I mean I had been in the studio prior, 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:35.760 but you know, there's there's just so much to learn 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.760 about recording, about how to get the most out of 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.000 out of your voice and what you're capable of. I 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:46.080 think when I was younger making those records, you know, 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.000 I just I had this urgency that was like, I've 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:50.720 got to get this out, this has got to I've 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.520 got to get it out. And I didn't have the 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.000 luxury of having a huge budget, you know, my husband 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.440 sold a car. We we sold a lot of our 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.880 musical gear to make that first record. I mean I 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:05.880 pawned my wedding ring. We just kind of went all 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:11.079 in and so I really had like a three day 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.880 budget to get that album done. And as I've grown 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:20.359 and you know, sat with those records forever, now it's 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:24.320 like I want to get everything perfect. I want it 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:33.400 to be, you know, completely completely finished. And and that 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.240 is something that I've learned. You know, It's like these 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:40.640 records are around forever, and if it takes going back 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.720 and doing another vocal pass or like also just even 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.440 sitting in there during the mixing process, you know, like 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.960 it's grueling. But like that's something that in my in 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:56.560 my middle age, I've really loved being you know, being 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.800 there from the conception all the way to the finish 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.800 line mixed and mastering all the details. 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.920 And what's different about working with the producer. 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:14.040 Yeah, I think being able to take that feedback and 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:18.400 to put your ego aside and you know, have somebody 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:24.400 else's ear in there too to make sure that, yeah, 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.640 that you've got the everything you need to make the 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:34.560 song memorable. And and like I said, just you know, 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.760 not not drowning things in too much reverb or too 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:44.000 much you know, God forbid auto tune. But that's like 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:48.279 the exact opposite of what Matt likes to do. He 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.320 wants things to be human and not too polished. And 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.360 so it's a real give and take because I think 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.920 I could get stuck just you know, in the editing 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:02.080 process or in the in the overdub process. And so 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.160 it's also when to know where you know when it's done, 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.719 so you don't quote unquote burn the beans. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.719 Okay, you made a lot of records, but not with 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.640 big distribution to your first album with Third Man that 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:20.720 blew up really pretty quickly. You are on SNL now 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:25.640 it's you know, basically ten years later. The landscape has changed, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.359 your relevant of you. Even SNL doesn't mean what it 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.080 used to mean. So when you sit down, I used 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.080 to be when you were growing up. Hey, let's get 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.360 on MTV. Everybody's going to know my record. Today nobody 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.800 knows every record. So when you go in to make 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.800 a record, what are the targets and what are your 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.120 feelings relative to what they used to be. 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:55.400 Well, the landscape has changed so much, and you know, 0:05:55.480 --> 0:06:00.000 the music business is almost even unrecognizable from ten years 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.160 years ago, because the charts are are dictated by you know, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:10.400 TikTok and social media, and there's good things about the change, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.839 and there's not so good things about the change. For me, 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:23.200 I try not to get too caught up in you know, 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.200 I don't know what I think other people want to 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.800 hear from me, or what I think is going to 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.200 you know, be a one of those kind of flash 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.279 in the pan, you know, like a song that people 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.520 are putting on their reels, or you know, people are 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.960 just using fifteen seconds these days, and it's like, that's 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.560 what that's what's going on now. Who knows, if, you know, 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.840 we'll ever get the attention span back of the public 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.680 in the way that it used to be. But I'm 0:06:55.720 --> 0:07:01.400 still making records that are a holess experience to the record. 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.560 I'm not. I never got in this wanting to just 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.120 write pop songs or wanting to just write something that 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.440 is going to top the charts. I'm here for a 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:20.120 part of the music listening population that wants to go 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.120 a little deeper than wants to go a little bit 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.720 further than whatever the earworm of the week is. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.920 Okay, this is a commercial enterprise. You're on Loma Vista, 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:37.240 which is part of a major organization. There's issues of budgets, 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:43.400 issues of commercial success now really streams. Do you feel 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:44.120 that pressure. 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.520 I'm sure people would like me to feel that pressure. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:57.880 I I don't know. I have managed to build a 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.040 career off of having in integrity and off of like 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:10.640 the live show and touring, and I you know, of course, 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.640 would like my albums to do great and to sell 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:18.480 as many records as I can. The streaming stuff, it's 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:20.760 it's hard for me. It's hard for me to want 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:25.960 to have massive streaming numbers because of what those corporations 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:30.160 do to artists. So I don't know. I think at 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:31.920 the end of the day, I'm still gonna be fine. 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.280 I'm still gonna be able to you know, feed my family. 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:41.920 And I can't get caught up in that because I've 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.319 never been caught up. I've never been worried about being 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:49.839 like on country radio, and you know, the charts have 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.560 have changed in the way that you know, maybe country 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.960 radio isn't as important as it used to be. But 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:00.560 now it's kind of like, I don't know, it's it's 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.840 still there's still problems in the music business. They've just changed. 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:10.080 So you're making a record in today's market. What's the 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.240 budget and how long did it take to make it? 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:18.000 Well, the budget, you know, they give you like a 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:22.360 ballpark estimate, and I went to RCA Studio A So 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.400 I blew through that budget because I went to the 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:30.040 best studio and I want to pay my musicians fairly, 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.440 and I, like I said, I wasn't going to stop 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:38.079 until it was done. And so the budget for this 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:44.720 record was substantial. It was. It was healthy. But I 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:49.520 have no regrets. That studio sounds incredible and you can 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.200 hear it. I mean, like we didn't go back in 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.720 and put a bunch of like reverb and delay on everything, 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:57.640 because we were just using the room and we were 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.920 just using the echo chamber and just the room and 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.680 RCA and like just knowing like, okay, this is where 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.280 Dolly made nine to five, you know, like this is 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:10.520 where some of my favorite records were made. And it 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.959 was when people cared about the audio sound. Now everybody 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.200 just listens through whatever, you know, through the speaker of 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.480 their phone. But I just got the test pressing and 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.760 the vinyl sounds incredible, and there's just there's no comparing it, 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.400 and so until they take the keys away from me, 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.000 I'm going to do my best to have records sound 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.120 warm and not everything all compressed and sounds like shit, 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.440 like you know when you do turn on country radio, 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:40.240 like that's what you hear. You hear a bunch of 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:45.320 compressed garbage. And uh, we've got a task Cam three 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.000 eighty eight reel to reel in my house in this 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.800 in this room here. My husband's been really getting acquainted 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.199 with how to work it, and he's been recording a 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.040 bunch of stuff on there. So even if I do 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.959 make a record that has you know, isn't going into 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.280 to RCAA Studio A and have a huge budget, it 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.760 still is going to sound warm, because that's just what 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.400 I gravitate towards anything done in the sixties and the 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:14.680 seventies and analog warmth in those in those ways. 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.240 Okay, you made a video that's a take off on 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.600 the video from Subterranean Homesick Blues, and you write in 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.960 your book which is quite interesting about being a big 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.280 Dylan fan. I mean, you talk about playing a gig 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.960 and playing winter Lude from New Morning. Most people don't 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:36.559 even know that track. So what's your favorite Bob Dylan album. 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.680 Ah, that such a tough question. I think it all 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:44.080 depends on the mood. But I love Desire. I go 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:48.240 back to that record all the time. The songs on it, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.959 of course, like Emmylu's harmony singing, which I as soon 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.560 as I met Emmy that was one of the things 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.319 I had to ask her about, you know, because she 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:00.360 notoriously hated her vocals on there. But yeah, I love 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:04.839 I have such a soft spot for Desire. That's kind 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:10.480 of been the the mood I've been in. But Dylan 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:15.400 is like number one artist for me. He's the best 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:20.800 songwriter that's ever been. And I'll dance on Steve Earl's 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:25.800 coffee table and argue that. And I love Towns Okay. 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.840 So you know, Desire follows up Blood on the Tracks, 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.280 which is sort of a comeback for Dylan after his 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.839 tour with the band and Planet Ways, which sold and 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:40.959 really was not embraced critically at the time. So if 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.520 I asked you, like, other than that album, give me 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.320 some other Dylan tracks that you're a fan of. 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:53.520 Oh, other other than that album? I mean, gosh, I 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.840 know all the deep cuts, I mean even the you know, 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.360 please missus Henry and all the stuff that he was 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.280 writing half Baked with the band. You know, that record 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.840 changed things for me. Million Dollar Bash, Like, there's just 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.840 there's so many different and I loved I mean, Planet 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:13.920 Waves has some gems too, and I even love like 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:18.199 Bob's coming to Jesus Records, you know, like you got 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.800 to serve somebody. I've it's taken me a long time 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.320 to get into all his records, but I mean John 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.560 Wesley Harding, even the ones that people don't like, I'm like, no, 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.680 there's great. There's great songs in there. And I think 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.200 anybody that's that doesn't like Bob Dylan really has no 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:40.400 business playing music. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.760 Okay, you know there are different periods with Dylan. You know, 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.360 the earlier records all you know, there's a run of 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.800 words like my favorite song is It's all Right Ma 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:53.720 from Bringing It All back Home. Once you get John 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:58.120 Wesley Harding and National Skyline, it slows down a little bit. 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.720 These are different periods. What have you learned from listening 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.280 to Bob Dylan that has affected your own life or songwriting? 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.080 Well, I think he never got stuck doing the same 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.079 thing too long, and he was always, you know, burning 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:21.720 through different things for inspiration. And obviously there's that quote 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.760 that is supposed to be Bob's that's like amateur's borrow 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:30.800 and professional steel. And I think Bob was just he 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.920 just he was a conduit. But he also was a 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.640 great thief and interpreter of other people's work and being 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.240 able to take it and bring it into your own. 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:47.000 I mean, I'm I'm a big believer in tradition and 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:52.080 like rooted music. You know, everything comes from the blues, 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.960 everything comes from the Irish, you know, folk songs back 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.600 in the day, that's really what country music is, or Americana. 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:04.680 But think you know Bob, he everything he did was 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:09.360 always rooted, but he found different, you know, different ways 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.840 to bring all these different genres into into what he did, 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:14.960 whether it was gospel, and I mean here he's just 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.960 you know, he's a Jewish kid, and he somehows I'm 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:22.760 gonna make a gospel record. I've loved people that could 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.080 be chameleons in that way. And I think that's how 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.520 he never got I mean, like you said, he did 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.120 have periods where he you know, would disappear and his 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.360 work got slower, but like he just he kept moving, 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.240 he kept creating, he kept coming back to things, and 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.720 I think, you know, maybe my career would be further 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:45.280 along had I stayed in the country world the whole time, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.840 or it stayed in the Americano world the whole time. 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:55.040 But like I had to just for my own sanity, 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.120 like visit these other genres that I love so much. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:04.680 I mean, I I don't regret making a psychedelic rock album. 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.400 I don't regret kind of crossing over into these other 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.720 things because that's just what I felt pulled to do. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.880 And when you make your passion into your career, it 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.080 can make the whole thing like not as sexy as 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.720 it was because you've got people depending on you financially, 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.400 and you know, you've got you've got employees, and you've 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:27.560 got to think about paying your bills and oh what, 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.160 you know, what am I going to do that's going 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.120 to be successful? But at the end of the day, 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.640 I just I think that's that's what I've learned from Bob, 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:41.000 is to just keep moving, keep being inspired, and you know, 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:45.240 nothing is really off limits when it comes to genres. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:46.520 So what have you stolen? 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:54.760 Haven't I stolen? Yeah? I think you know, even in 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.440 my first record, I was borrowing so much from like 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:02.320 Loretta Lynn, I was borrowing. I mean, even the title 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.840 of Midwest Farmer's Daughter, like that came from a Beach 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:05.440 Boys song. 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.000 You know, okay, wait to stop for a second. That's 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.600 a great song off the second Beach Boys album. How 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.320 do you know that song? 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:22.080 I was born in the wrong time. I literally everything 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:26.719 in my home it looks like I'm you know, was 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.840 graduated the year my parents graduated, which was like nineteen 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.040 seventy three. But I had one of those dads that would, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:34.640 you know, put me in the back of the car 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:39.199 and do the quizzing. Okay, who's this? You know, who's this? Uh, 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.159 it's the doors. It's Jim Morris and dad, you know, 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.240 like he educated me when it came to classic rock 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:51.560 and blues. And then my grand my grandmother loved country music. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.600 And my uncle was a songwriter here in Nashville's name 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.480 is Bob Fisher, and he wrote songs for George Jones, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.520 Tanya Charlie Pride. So that was where I got the 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:08.679 like country kind of influence from. And I mean, of 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.159 course I listened to contemporary music in the nineties, like 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.080 I was listening to Doctor dre and and Snoop Dogg 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.560 and Eminem. But I was also like very into loosen 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:25.479 To Williams and Gilly Walch and like the songwriting that 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.320 was going on then, and Tom Petty and Fleetwood Mac 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.560 and Heartbreakers. So I don't know, I feel like in 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.920 the nineties is when everything really started to get shit 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.639 and you know, get worse, especially the two thousands, like 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.840 the boy bands and like the pop music that was 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:48.920 going on then. I just find it really insufferable. But yeah, 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.000 I've just lived in another decade for a very long time. 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:06.840 Okay, you grew up in Nowheeresville, Illinois, western part of Illinois, 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:11.840 and you're listening to Gin and Juice and Doggy Style. 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.400 I mean, I live in Los Angeles, I know where 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.280 Englewood is. I know we're all on Beachwitter. What's it 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.880 like listening to those records where there may not even 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.560 be a black person with an X number of miles. 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.840 Very good point there was. Yeah, there was like one 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.040 black family in my town and they were adopted by 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.879 a white family, so that tells you that. Yeah, I 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.120 don't know. It just was like my parents didn't want 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.840 me to listen to it. So that's was really the 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:47.000 motivation behind it, I don't know. I I think, yeah, 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.720 it was just what everybody else in my in my 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.520 school was listening to. And really at that time, I 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:59.119 wasn't as big into the nineties country as you know. 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:00.639 It was like I could kind of take it or 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.160 leave it. Like when I really fell in love with country, 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:07.600 that was getting into stuff that was older. So I 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:09.560 think at the time it was just like compared to, 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.120 like I said, the Christina Aguileras and the you know, 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.199 in Sync and stuff like that, it was like I 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:20.879 resonated more with with Wrap, which is is hilarious to say. 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.680 But Okay, so you're in high school, these records are 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:29.480 coming out. You know, there's a whole lifestyle attitude vocabulary 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.560 in these records. So were you and your friends imitating 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:34.880 that living. 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:41.440 That Yeah, we were definitely. I was drinking way too young, 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.240 I was. I had my first drink at the age 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:51.040 of I think twelve, and the pot smoking that came 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:58.000 around sixteen. And yeah, there wasn't a lot to do 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:03.880 in my town, and so substances became became a part 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.920 of my life very quickly. Unfortunately. 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:10.760 Okay, let's go back to the beginning. Your parents and 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.560 grandparents are turning you on to music. At what point 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:16.560 do you first start to play an instrument? 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:30.560 So piano lessons started around yeah, early elementary seven eight 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.639 years old, I think was when the piano came around. 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.200 And then at twelve, well, before you. 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.119 Go out there usually you know, I'm a little older 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.320 than you. It was like an unwritten rule in a 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:47.080 Jewish family, it start taking piano lessons. How did you 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:49.480 end up taking piano lessons? Was there already pen in 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.480 the home and parents said you're going to do this? 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.760 And was it like a chore or did you see 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.760 a piano say hey, I'd like to play the Well 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:57.080 I was. 0:21:57.680 --> 0:21:59.680 I was singing from a very early age and I 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:01.879 would just sing a cappella all the time. And so 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.359 my parents saw the need that you know, I was 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.159 asking them to take piano lessons, and so they bought 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:14.280 a little spin at piano and then I did. I 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:16.679 don't know my teacher, she kind of taught me boring songs, 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.719 but I would sit there and make things up. But 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:22.560 it was it was a privilege. It was a luxury 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.119 because neither of my parents ever had a musical lesson, 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.080 and so you know, they kind of spun it that way. 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:32.040 So it was for me, it was it was fun, 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:36.040 it was fun to learn. I didn't like I said, 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:40.400 I didn't love my teacher, and so I very quickly 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.800 used all the money from my eighth grade graduation cards 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:51.880 and got a guitar and started teaching myself on that started. 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.639 I would always bring my guitar everywhere to all the 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.760 parties and to you know, we would go cruise around 0:22:57.760 --> 0:22:59.960 on these back roads and I would bring the guitar 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.040 in the back of the car and try to learn 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:04.879 whatever song me and my friends were into, and you know, 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:07.920 kind of karaoke. It. 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.639 Okay, you didn't grow up in a big town, but 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:14.560 you know, when I went to high school, there was 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.480 the kid or the multiple kids who played the guitar, 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.919 and when you went to a party, they would play 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:24.240 were you that kid or were you the wannabe kid? 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:34.080 I was. I was a bit shy, but I would 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.560 try to break myself out of the shell. Like I said, 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.320 a couple a couple of beers here and there there 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:43.240 would be I would I would sit around and play 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:47.560 some songs. But it was like I was learning kind 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:52.840 of more quiet folky stuff like Pieces of You by 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:56.639 jewel or you know, like I was saying, like Gillian 0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:02.560 Welch was just massive for me. I was very into 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:07.439 like the kind of like sad, more quiet. You know. 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:09.520 There were other people that were like in the school 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:11.920 that were playing like led Zeppelin, and I would learn 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:13.720 a couple of chords from them and try to hang 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.720 out with them. But I don't know, I was more 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:21.320 of a little bit more of a folky Okay. 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:24.679 It wasn't like Gillian Welch was on the radio. She 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:27.359 certainly didn't have a hit record. So how did you 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:31.359 find all this sad music? You know? 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:38.240 I think word of mouth. Like I remember a friend 0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:43.280 like giving me the Lucinda CD, and that kind of 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:47.719 opened like a door into music that was not on 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:52.119 the radio, like I said, the like nineties country that 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:57.199 a lot of people were listening to. But yeah, it was, 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:01.720 I mean it was it was massive to I hear 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:07.800 people writing songs that just felt not like what was 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:15.879 coming out of you know, the local stations. And I 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:19.240 didn't really have cable either, but I would go to 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:22.560 my grandmother's house. I would watch MTV at her house. 0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:27.240 I would also I mean, there were just like music magazines, 0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:30.200 like reading like actually picking up like a copy of 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.840 Rolling Stone and like and waiting for like a CD 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:37.919 to come out like that was it was huge. And 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:40.360 then sometimes you know, I would also like make bootleg 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:45.760 cassettes off of like radio stations and record things so 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:49.560 I could listen back to it later. But yeah, it 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:50.920 just seems like a whole different time. 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:54.480 Now, Okay, what kind of kid were you in high school? 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:57.360 You obviously had some friends, you run around drinking and drugging, 0:25:57.920 --> 0:26:00.720 But were you like, oh, Margo, yeah, use that odd 0:26:00.720 --> 0:26:04.080 girl in the corner, or you the cheerleader type? What 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:07.760 kind of kid were you? I was. 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:12.959 I was a bit preppy because I think that was 0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:15.720 just like the only way to really be accepted in 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:20.840 my town. It was all about football, American football. And 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:25.320 I was a cheerleader, and I sang the national anthem 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:28.080 at like all the football games, all the basketball games. 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:37.080 I was in choir. And my chorus teacher did not 0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:40.520 give me very many solos. She didn't give me many ensembles, 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:46.320 she didn't give me many parts at all. Why she said, 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:49.919 my voice didn't blend and my voice was not a 0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:54.800 good blending voice. And I mean it is like it 0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:57.240 can be a bit waspy, it can really cut through, 0:26:57.320 --> 0:27:00.280 but like, yeah, never until my senior year she me 0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:04.840 the solo at the baccalaureate concert I got to and 0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.080 then she gave me the McKinley Award for music like 0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:11.360 my senior year. But like it was, I just felt 0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:17.840 like she did not like me, and so I wanted 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:21.159 to have more of like a role in the arts world. 0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:24.200 But I just I didn't thrive in there as much 0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:28.720 as I could have. I think, I don't know. I 0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:31.119 did jazz choir, I did show choir. I was always 0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:34.919 doing you know, choir events. But like I said, I 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:38.160 wasn't getting I wasn't getting the solos, that's for sure. 0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:42.320 Oka Is that because she's a prick or you know? 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:46.000 Are you the type of person that gets along with everybody? 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:48.400 Are you the type of person has an agy personality? 0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:50.200 They either like you they don't. 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:55.040 I don't know. I think I'm honestly pretty agreeable, and 0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:59.920 unfortunately I've been a people pleaser just because of sitch 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.600 situations around me growing up and you know, childhood traumas 0:28:03.640 --> 0:28:08.520 and bullshit like that. I I don't know. I mean, 0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:11.720 I did rebel here and there in school, and I 0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:15.439 did run with the rowdy crowd, but I don't know. 0:28:15.520 --> 0:28:17.919 She was also just very tough. She was a really 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:21.240 tough instructor and I had her all the way from 0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:26.200 sixth grade through to high school. I had another voice teacher. 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:29.560 Her name was Sue Clark. She taught me mezzo soprano Italian, 0:28:30.400 --> 0:28:35.040 you know, opera style singing. And I was working so hard, 0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:39.920 you know, but the but the vocal coach in my 0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:42.160 high school, she she just did not like me. And 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:44.320 now she'll say that, you know, she taught me everything 0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:47.800 that I know, and she's always like acts like she 0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:48.760 was always supportive. 0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:51.600 But do you have any contact with her? How do 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:52.440 you know that. 0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:55.800 I've heard through the grape vine, on the on the 0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:59.400 Facebook or whatever. But I she was like judge Judy. 0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:03.240 She was really tough. She ruled with an iron fist. 0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:06.040 And yeah, but you know, there's this syndrome. Maybe I'm 0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:09.520 beating the dead horse here where the most talented person. 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:12.840 It's almost like the teacher has to teach that personal 0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:15.880 lesson and put them in their place, kind of getting 0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:16.720 that vibe from you. 0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:20.040 It could have been a bit that it could it 0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:22.280 could have been a little bit of that. I mean 0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:28.880 I definitely can be headstrong and I definitely not shied 0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:32.800 away from opinions that I'm sure lots of people would 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:37.200 rather me keep my mouth shut. But that's that's the 0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:38.800 good part about me and the bad part. 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:46.400 Okay, that scene. What kind of academic student were you? I? 0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.680 I always had people saying, you're not working up to 0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.720 your full potential. You know. It was always daydreams. Applying 0:29:52.760 --> 0:30:00.000 your Yeah, absolutely, I I did. Okay, I I could, 0:30:00.520 --> 0:30:03.120 I could have applied myself more, but I was always 0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:07.720 just like daydreaming and I don't know, chasing boys, hanging 0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:08.360 out with friends. 0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:12.360 And your parents will they give you any guidance telling 0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:13.120 you what to do. 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:17.360 I was the first born of three girls, and they 0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:22.920 were really tough on me. They were very, very controlling 0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:27.120 and wanted me to be safe all the time. But 0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:34.600 I definitely gave them a run for their money. I 0:30:34.640 --> 0:30:37.360 you know, like I said, I got okay grades, I passed, 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:43.280 but I was I've always had a rebellious streak. And 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:50.040 my parents they were always catching me, yeah, drinking, smoking weed, 0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:55.000 whatever it was. They wanted me to just be a good, 0:30:55.320 --> 0:30:59.520 normal kid, and I was like sign number one, like 0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:00.840 she's gonna to be a musician. 0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:04.160 Was it in your DNA? How about boys? 0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:07.320 Oh yeah, that was That's always been a trouble for me. 0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:08.960 That's always been an issue. 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:10.560 What does that mean? 0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:14.640 Everybody thinks I'm like a man hater because I'm a feminist, 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:18.200 but I really I love men way too much. I've 0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:24.440 had well, yeah, my last band, you know, kind of 0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:27.520 broke up because there was there was a lot of 0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:33.280 interpersonal relationships going on. My keyboard player was married to 0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:36.080 my bass player. I had an affair with my guitarist. 0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:40.880 My husband and I stayed, have worked things out. He's 0:31:40.880 --> 0:31:47.040 been my closest collaborator for twenty one years. We've grown 0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:53.280 up together and he's by far my greatest support. And 0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:55.520 I mean we went through a lot of trauma together. 0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:59.160 We lost a child. We were struggling in the music 0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:02.160 business for years. So now it's like we get to 0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:05.800 live out our dreams and write these songs and be 0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:08.000 in Nashville. I'm really lucky he's stuck with me through 0:32:08.200 --> 0:32:10.040 all my all my wild years. 0:32:10.280 --> 0:32:13.640 Okay, you're in a band, you're struggling, and there you know, 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:18.040 there's a married couple in your band. Do you ever think, well, 0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:20.480 maybe this isn't a good thing to do to have 0:32:20.520 --> 0:32:25.080 an affair or was it something beneath it other than 0:32:25.120 --> 0:32:26.840 you know, we say, I'm going to teach somebody a lesson. 0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:29.040 I'm so frustrated. What was going through your mind? 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:33.520 Well, you know, I, like I said, we had been 0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:39.480 through a major trauma, we lost a child, and things 0:32:39.520 --> 0:32:43.520 were it was just it was a dark time. There 0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:47.320 was too much drinking going on, There was too much drugging. 0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:52.320 There was, like I said, just decades of failure that 0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:57.560 had accrued. And really it was it was just a 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:03.320 lot of bad decisions leading up to you know what 0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:07.760 completely turned around. I mean, I've I've never been in 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:13.760 a better place emotionally, artistically, creatively, but I think we 0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:18.400 had to go through that dark time to even you know, 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:21.840 have the material, the songs, everything that we had. I 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:26.560 know it sounds like cliche, but I before we had 0:33:26.600 --> 0:33:29.840 those major traumas in our life like this, the songs 0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:32.040 just really weren't as deep because I had not been 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:39.320 through the struggles that you know are oftentimes fodder for 0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:44.960 for good songs and life lessons and poetry. And yeah, 0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:48.760 it's it's a time that I look back on and 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:53.200 I you know, I used to be embarrassed of what 0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:56.920 I went through or you know, not want to talk 0:33:56.960 --> 0:34:01.480 about it, but it's it gave give me the outlook 0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:04.480 that I have now. It gave me all the strength 0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:08.760 to get through that time, to just have the character. 0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:13.680 Now, Okay, you had an affair. You ultimately told your husband. 0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:17.920 It sounds like he acted out a little bit. Not 0:34:18.040 --> 0:34:20.080 to mention that. I talk about the death of the child, 0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:22.920 although not that long after the child is born, but 0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:28.239 frequently that breaks up a relationship after people step out, 0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:32.040 how do you rekindle it and how do you rekindle 0:34:32.120 --> 0:34:33.400 the trust? 0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:37.879 It's been it's been a journey for both of us. 0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:46.279 We have done therapy individually together we have I mean, 0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:50.200 we've written songs about it, which is just sounds insane, 0:34:50.480 --> 0:34:54.359 but it's it's all in there if anyone's listening to 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:59.400 the lyrics, and I think, you know, having very deep talks, 0:34:59.760 --> 0:35:02.960 have having each other's back. 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:03.200 And. 0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:10.000 It's you know, any marriage is a lot of work, 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:13.840 but what we have is just it's so much deeper 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:18.560 than just just a regular marriage because we are creative partners. 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:22.440 It's like John and Paul, It's like Robert Hunter and 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:25.960 the grateful dead. It's like it is like Dave and Gillian, 0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:31.239 where it's like I just I think it took us 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:34.680 so long to get to this like healthy place that 0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:40.240 we're at now, and it feels like a miracle honestly 0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:43.240 that we got through it, because I think eighty percent 0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:46.400 of people that lose a child are separated, and then 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:49.160 fifty percent of all marriages in general just end in divorce. 0:35:49.280 --> 0:35:52.760 So I feel like we have like beat the odds 0:35:52.800 --> 0:36:00.240 in just this huge way. And yeah, it's not been easy. 0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:11.279 Okay, you're married to this guy, jereed me. You work 0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:14.200 with them. I mean a lot of people wake up 0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:16.319 in the morning, have breakfast, go to work for six 0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:20.160 or eight hours, come home, they're separate. You're together all 0:36:20.320 --> 0:36:24.080 the time. Doesn't that cause extra friction? 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:30.799 Well, we do. We do try to take time, whether 0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:34.640 it's like sometimes he's staying home with the children and 0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:38.719 I'm going out on the road by myself and sometimes 0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:41.319 he will take a writing retreat or you know, we 0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:45.360 really do make as Khalil Jabron says, let there be 0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:48.960 spaces in your togetherness, because it's it can be really 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:53.359 challenging when you're dating one of your band members and 0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:58.719 he's so good. He's like Brian Wilson in the way 0:36:58.760 --> 0:37:00.440 that it's like he just loves to be home. He 0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:02.280 loves to be in the studio, he loves to be writing, 0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:06.360 and and he loves to travel as well. But like, 0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:10.160 you know, there's we've kind of reached this point where 0:37:10.160 --> 0:37:12.640 it's like, okay, like this is what you do, well, 0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:15.520 this is what I do. Well, we're gonna we don't 0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:19.960 always have to be on the road together, like twenty 0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:22.720 four to seven, because it can be really challenging. 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:27.320 Okay, this is something that comes up. No one really 0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:30.960 made a deep dive in it. Prior to cell phone cameras. 0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:34.239 One of the reasons men got into music was to 0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:38.560 go on the road, drink drug and have sex. I mean, 0:37:38.600 --> 0:37:42.879 the cliche is sex, drugs rock and roll. So what's 0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:45.279 it like being a woman on the road, especially when 0:37:45.320 --> 0:37:46.520 your husband is not there. 0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:54.160 Well, I think, you know, in my twenties and in 0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:59.040 my thirties, it was a much different thing than it 0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:05.800 is now. I think I'm I don't know, I'm a 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:08.920 little more focused on like using my free time to 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:15.080 write songs or work on a book, write haikus, and 0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:17.960 go to vintage stores. And you know, I mean I 0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:20.719 definitely was in the phase where it would be like 0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:23.960 after the show, you went out and you went to 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:27.680 another bar and you know, hang out, talk to fans, 0:38:27.800 --> 0:38:32.399 talk to friends, talk to other bands. I mean it's 0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:38.960 still it's still is, you know, traveling and being out. 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:41.680 But I think I think that there's such a misconception 0:38:41.800 --> 0:38:45.080 sometimes with touring that it's like the backstage is much 0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:47.680 more sexy than it is. It's like, oh, it's really 0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:49.759 just a bunch of crew guys pushing around heavy shit 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:57.920 and everybody's like back there, you know, waiting to use 0:38:57.960 --> 0:39:00.799 a shower or I don't know, it's it's not as 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:03.520 sexy as maybe it used to be. I mean, it 0:39:03.560 --> 0:39:05.839 doesn't mean that I'm totally sober and there's not any 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:12.680 fun times, because they're definitely is fun times. And sometimes 0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:15.240 I do still party, but I just have to really 0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:16.480 like plan my partying. 0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:20.440 Okay, you've been at this for a couple of decades. 0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:25.200 What's it like being an attractive, successful woman on the road. 0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:28.319 I mean, men have groupies. Do you have guys that 0:39:28.360 --> 0:39:30.520 you have to keep at arm's length? We read about, 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:33.880 you know, the stalkers of Taylor Swift, and other people. 0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:35.200 What's the experience for you. 0:39:36.920 --> 0:39:39.240 I definitely have to be careful about opening up my dms. 0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:42.680 Sometimes you don't know what people are going to send you, 0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:47.520 but I just try not to do that anyway. I think, 0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:57.960 you know, I do like to protect my privacy. I 0:39:57.960 --> 0:39:59.840 I like to have someone out there with me that 0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:06.279 can give a little muscle and keep me safe for sure. 0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.440 But I think for the most part, I have I 0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:13.960 have some really great fans, and I have a lot 0:40:14.000 --> 0:40:16.840 of people that I think that come out to my 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:19.680 shows and the thing that they want. I do a 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:22.520 lot of Like when I do my headlining tour, I'll 0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:25.040 do meet and greets and do like a VIP package, 0:40:25.080 --> 0:40:27.880 and really it's supposed to be me just singing a 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:30.920 couple of songs and take a group photo, but I 0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:35.080 always end up meeting. If there's time, I'll try to 0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:38.919 meet everyone individually, take a photo with everyone individually, talk 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:44.880 to folks, and I think, you know, really they I 0:40:45.160 --> 0:40:46.880 have a lot of people that want to trauma bond 0:40:46.960 --> 0:40:48.880 with me, and they want to share their story. You know, 0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:51.520 I lost this person, Oh I lost my husband, and 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:53.719 you know, we used to come to your shows or 0:40:53.760 --> 0:40:57.920 I mean there's just people love to share their stories 0:40:57.960 --> 0:41:00.400 of what they went through and how my songs helped 0:41:00.400 --> 0:41:02.080 them through it. So a lot of times I feel 0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:04.560 like it's a more innocent every now and then, Yeah, 0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.120 you get the swinger couple that comes up, Oh my 0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:09.640 husband's get out of jail free card, or you know, 0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:12.760 like you've got people want me to sign their boobs 0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:17.160 or yeah, sign other areas of their body. But like 0:41:17.200 --> 0:41:20.279 I said, I always have I always have someone there 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:23.960 with me to kind of make sure that I'm that 0:41:24.000 --> 0:41:24.520 I'm safe. 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:28.600 Okay, let's go back to the narrative. So you're singing 0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:32.279 in high school, you get this McKinley award, I think 0:41:32.320 --> 0:41:37.320 you said, and what's the dream? Then at what point 0:41:37.320 --> 0:41:40.400 do you say, hmmm, this music thing, this is what 0:41:40.440 --> 0:41:41.080 I want to do. 0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:45.960 I was really young when I first started saying I 0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:47.440 wanted to be an actress or I wanted to be 0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:51.800 a singer and career day I remember that came about 0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:56.040 and I had like the guidance counselor at school say like, 0:41:56.080 --> 0:41:58.560 oh no, you you can't be a singer. That's not 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:01.759 a career. And I feel like, from the age of 0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:04.879 like twelve thirteen on, I always wanted to prove it 0:42:05.200 --> 0:42:07.479 to people. It was like, oh, okay, because my mom 0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:09.560 was there saying, no, you can, you can do that. 0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:11.719 If that's what you want to do, you can absolutely 0:42:11.760 --> 0:42:15.799 do that. But really it was when I took this 0:42:16.960 --> 0:42:21.919 massive mushroom trip on psilocybin. I was eighteen years old. 0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:27.960 I was in college, and I took an eighth of 0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:35.920 mushrooms and just completely went to outer space. And as 0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:39.200 I came back down, I realized that I didn't want 0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:41.360 to be living in the Midwest anymore. I did not 0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:49.040 want to study communications or Spanish or whatever. And I 0:42:49.120 --> 0:42:53.880 visited Nashville during spring break of my sophomore year and 0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:57.360 then dropped out of school, moved to Nashville, and just 0:42:57.400 --> 0:43:02.879 started signing up for every like open mic right night. Yeah, 0:43:02.960 --> 0:43:06.520 that was the real turning point. Was like eighteen nineteen. 0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:12.279 Okay, you were in college at first, you were a cheerleader. 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:15.560 What was your college experience like before you did drop out. 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:29.560 I was excelling in Spanish. I had changed my major 0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:33.600 from communications to art and dance in theater, so I 0:43:33.680 --> 0:43:36.680 was taking a lot of ballet classes, a lot of 0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:41.960 modern dance like Martha Graham, Bob Fosse type dance and 0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:44.359 theater and all of that. It was good, but I 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:47.480 was still it was really just kind of purposeless. I 0:43:47.520 --> 0:43:53.280 was partying a lot. I was just drinking way too much. 0:43:53.440 --> 0:44:01.880 I ended up getting alcohol poisoning sophomore year and they 0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:04.880 hauled me off to the hospital. It was I was 0:44:04.960 --> 0:44:11.480 driftless and just experimenting with a lot of substances. But 0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:13.520 I met a lot of really cool people that were 0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:16.080 into great music and we would get together and hang 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:20.000 out and jam and so that side of everything was growing, 0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:22.840 just musically, and you know, I'd go over and like 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:26.520 sit behind a drum kit and play with people and 0:44:27.520 --> 0:44:30.960 try to learn songs. I met some friends that were 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:34.960 also writing songs and we would we would, you know, 0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:39.239 swap lyrics and music and everything. But it was, yeah, 0:44:39.280 --> 0:44:42.239 the schooling part was just really boring to me. It 0:44:42.400 --> 0:44:46.560 was really just more about the socializing and and. 0:44:46.560 --> 0:44:49.840 That's where college is. But whatever, what did your parents 0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:51.920 say when you said you were going to drop out? 0:44:53.560 --> 0:44:56.799 They thought it was crazy, and they they wanted me 0:44:56.840 --> 0:44:59.880 to finish college because you know, like I said, that 0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:03.759 a luxury that my mom graduated college, but my dad 0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:05.919 never did. Nobody on his side of the family did, 0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:12.200 and so he was really frustrated with me. I thought 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:16.160 it was just a crazy idea to move to Nashville. 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:19.320 And I didn't even want to be a country singer. 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:24.799 I just wanted to be a songwriter. Nashville Star was 0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:27.120 like all the rage at that time, and it was 0:45:27.160 --> 0:45:29.760 just I didn't like anything that I heard. I don't 0:45:29.840 --> 0:45:34.360 like any of the poppy country stuff and I still don't. 0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:38.920 And I but there was this other scene that was 0:45:38.920 --> 0:45:41.080 going on at the time in Nashville, and it was 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:47.120 like down by like exit in and Elliston Place, and 0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:49.120 it was like called the Rock Block at the time. 0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:52.040 And so between that and then just going to the 0:45:52.040 --> 0:45:55.080 open mic like Writers' Nights and hearing people that were 0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:57.960 just really good songwriters, you know. I mean some of 0:45:58.000 --> 0:46:02.239 them probably had cuts and had hits, but I don't know. 0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:04.360 I really wanted to move to New York or California, 0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:06.759 and my parents were like, no way, you don't know 0:46:06.760 --> 0:46:09.040 how to drive in in that kind of traffic, Like 0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:12.000 you just need to go here because it's closer. And 0:46:12.040 --> 0:46:15.880 so's it's really funny that I ended up making country 0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:18.400 music after all, but not the kind of country music 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:22.640 that you know, like was thriving in the nineties in 0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:24.640 the two thousands, I just I didn't. I didn't like 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:28.080 Nashville Star, I didn't like I didn't like American idol. 0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:30.319 I didn't I know what I don't like. 0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:36.000 Okay, you come to Nashville, put it mildly. You don't 0:46:36.000 --> 0:46:41.080 have any success, Okay, and in the back of your 0:46:41.120 --> 0:46:44.480 mind you say, shit, maybe I should go back to college. 0:46:44.520 --> 0:46:47.080 I mean, there's the Bruce Springsteen live album where his 0:46:47.120 --> 0:46:49.600 mother says, you know, you can still go back to college. 0:46:53.840 --> 0:46:56.880 Yeah. I thought about all sorts of different ways I 0:46:56.920 --> 0:47:01.480 could pivot my career to be a photographer for pivot 0:47:01.560 --> 0:47:05.439 my career to you know, still do something artistic. And 0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:08.200 and I was teaching a lot of children at the time. 0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:12.279 I was the director of like the dance program, and 0:47:12.280 --> 0:47:14.719 and I could incorporate music in those ways, like I 0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:21.080 would choreograph like ballets to like Sid Barrett and like 0:47:21.560 --> 0:47:25.360 the Beatles and really weird songs like you know, Brian 0:47:25.360 --> 0:47:28.840 Wilson's like Smile, Like that's that's good music for like 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:32.200 children's tap dances. But so I had I had that 0:47:32.320 --> 0:47:35.759 like as a creative outlet. But I definitely didn't feel fulfilled, 0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:40.440 and people asked, especially when I got pregnant, it was like, okay, 0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:42.920 now you're going to give it up right, like it's 0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:48.840 been a decade, like nothing's happening for you. And I 0:47:48.960 --> 0:47:52.720 just we just kept going. I just kept barreling ahead. 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:55.360 Okay, let's go back at chatter. We have two sisters. 0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:57.520 Did they go to finish college? What are they up to? 0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:03.240 So my the middle sister is a very successful business woman, 0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:06.880 and she had a BMW and a nice house and 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:10.000 a hot tub, and and here I'm living in Squalor, 0:48:10.360 --> 0:48:12.239 you know, three years older than her. I've got like 0:48:12.360 --> 0:48:17.239 rats in my house and you know, just everything in 0:48:17.280 --> 0:48:20.799 the house is from a thrift store. And so yeah, 0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:26.720 my middle sister has always been just like business savvy, 0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:33.920 good with money, computer science, brain. My youngest sister, she's 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:36.520 kind of an artist like me. She's a dancer and 0:48:36.600 --> 0:48:42.880 she's traveled the world and performed and done stuff with 0:48:44.280 --> 0:48:47.960 video and television and all sorts of different things. But 0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:51.160 uh yeah, I'm the oldest, the oldest of three. 0:48:51.440 --> 0:48:55.879 Okay, you go back to your hometown, your family, your relatives, 0:48:55.880 --> 0:49:00.440 the people you grew up with. Are they respect and 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:05.600 into your success or there's someone putting you down because 0:49:05.640 --> 0:49:07.239 you've got out. 0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:11.600 It's a combination of both. Yeah, I hate it when 0:49:13.239 --> 0:49:17.719 people think I'm like too good for them, because I 0:49:17.760 --> 0:49:23.160 really have tried to remain true to who I am. 0:49:24.200 --> 0:49:28.680 But I think, yeah, you know, it's when you've got 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:31.040 a large group of people who never got away, who've 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:33.880 never seen anything else, there is going to be a 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:36.600 little bit of a level of that. But also, I 0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:38.560 mean when I go back to my hometown, it's like 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:42.160 I am such a celebrity there. There's like a sign 0:49:42.239 --> 0:49:44.800 when you come into town. It's like home of Margot 0:49:44.840 --> 0:49:49.759 Price and right by the football sign, you know, Big 0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:53.080 ten you know, state champs these years. And then also 0:49:53.320 --> 0:49:56.520 home of Susie Bogas also is from my hometown. She's 0:49:56.560 --> 0:50:00.520 a nineties country star. So I go there, I go 0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:04.120 to you know, go to the grocery store, and people 0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:06.080 people are proud of me. People are proud of me 0:50:06.120 --> 0:50:06.480 there too. 0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:09.280 Wait, wait, how many people live in this town? 0:50:10.680 --> 0:50:13.840 Like less than four thousand for sure. 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:17.720 And there's a sign, a permanent sign this is home 0:50:17.760 --> 0:50:22.440 of Margot Brice. Yeah, I mean it's kind of like 0:50:22.480 --> 0:50:25.400 a star on Hollywood Boulevard. How does that even happen 0:50:25.880 --> 0:50:26.359 it is. 0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:31.280 I don't know, I have no idea. I I feel 0:50:31.280 --> 0:50:35.200 really lucky that, you know, I've I've got people there 0:50:35.239 --> 0:50:38.080 that do support me. And my mom too. She was 0:50:38.120 --> 0:50:41.640 a teacher in the town and she's like a celebrity 0:50:41.680 --> 0:50:44.640 too because she taught third grade for years. She taught, 0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:47.640 so it's like I always we would be, you know, 0:50:47.719 --> 0:50:49.520 at the grocery store, and people would be coming up 0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:51.720 to my mom and saying, oh, she was my favorite teacher. 0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:55.120 She changed my life, you know. And and my grandma 0:50:55.160 --> 0:50:59.279 still lives there, and there's a local radio station and 0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:04.239 they for me, And yeah, I do love to go 0:51:04.520 --> 0:51:06.600 to go back home. I didn't get to go to 0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.640 my high school graduation. I wanted to go there because 0:51:09.680 --> 0:51:12.680 I know there were a lot of people that shit 0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:17.520 talked me, and it would be it would be good 0:51:17.000 --> 0:51:20.040 to see some people. But I had a show. I 0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:20.839 couldn't go back. 0:51:21.320 --> 0:51:22.839 You mean the reunion, just to be. 0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:24.480 Clear, reunion. Oh yeah, what did I say? 0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:31.080 Okay, you move to Nashville, you live with the relative, 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:35.560 then you live with an old college buddy. And these 0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:42.040 are not placid situations. I mean, you know, they both 0:51:42.080 --> 0:51:44.000 turned bad. Tell us about that. 0:51:46.040 --> 0:51:50.360 Yeah, my cousin. I'm a bit estranged from her, but 0:51:52.719 --> 0:51:55.800 she used to be pretty well connected in the music business. 0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:59.239 She well, she was dating one of the Whalers at 0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:02.000 least from Bob Marley and the Whalers, and so she 0:52:02.040 --> 0:52:04.520 got me into some cool concerts when I moved here. 0:52:06.440 --> 0:52:11.920 But she's a very strong personality and has some substance 0:52:12.520 --> 0:52:18.080 substance issues as well. So yeah, lived with her didn't 0:52:18.120 --> 0:52:22.279 work out. Lived with another roommate who ended up kind 0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:26.680 of leaving with some of my possessions, and have not 0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:32.240 spoken to her in twenty years, I you know, I think. 0:52:32.360 --> 0:52:34.839 Then after that, I moved in with Jeremy and we've 0:52:34.880 --> 0:52:39.160 been living together since then pretty much on and off. 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:42.240 But we were terrible roommates with each other too, because 0:52:42.280 --> 0:52:44.480 we would be really bad about paying our bills and 0:52:44.840 --> 0:52:47.640 always getting the electricity shut off, always getting the water 0:52:47.760 --> 0:52:53.640 shut off. So yeah, he's been my roommate for the 0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:58.120 for the last twenty But it's those early years were crazy. 0:52:58.160 --> 0:53:00.320 I was just working any odd job that I could. 0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:04.480 I was. There was a couple of times where we 0:53:04.680 --> 0:53:07.640 just didn't even have anywhere to be, and I made 0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:10.600 friends with an old Vietnam Vet out at Percy Priest 0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:13.120 Park out here in Tennessee, and I would go park 0:53:13.160 --> 0:53:17.439 my car out there in camp and live with this guy. 0:53:17.520 --> 0:53:22.640 I would bring him weed and we were buds. So 0:53:22.680 --> 0:53:24.200 there were a lot of people who got me through 0:53:24.239 --> 0:53:28.120 those early years, just like crashing on friends' couches, staying 0:53:28.120 --> 0:53:31.160 on there and their cabins, and then we would return 0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:36.560 the favor too. And like Brittany Howard Alabama, sheiks they 0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:41.120 crashed with us, My friends the Deslons, they're a New 0:53:41.200 --> 0:53:43.799 Orleans band. Also my friend a Linda from Hoay for 0:53:43.840 --> 0:53:47.080 the riff Raft. There was just like a a community 0:53:47.120 --> 0:53:51.040 of all of us crashing and lifting each other up. 0:53:58.600 --> 0:54:01.319 Okay, so it's basically about the decade before there's any 0:54:01.360 --> 0:54:06.120 real success. How often did you say you referenced it earlier, 0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:08.560 but going a little deeper, I'm going to give up. 0:54:09.880 --> 0:54:12.919 And what kept you going, man? 0:54:13.080 --> 0:54:17.920 I I think just pure insanity. I mean, it's what 0:54:18.320 --> 0:54:21.160 do they say, like when you do the same thing 0:54:21.200 --> 0:54:23.720 over and over and like you don't get another outcome. 0:54:24.120 --> 0:54:29.719 That's that's what was happening. But you know, I had 0:54:29.760 --> 0:54:35.920 never really made a country record, and I think it 0:54:36.000 --> 0:54:39.759 was just again like jumping genres and just reinventing and 0:54:40.000 --> 0:54:41.759 thinking like, okay, well I've been in these bands, but 0:54:41.800 --> 0:54:46.600 I haven't put out a solo record. I well, let's. 0:54:46.320 --> 0:54:51.399 Be let's be clear. You're making records that get no 0:54:51.560 --> 0:54:57.759 distribution in a pre streaming era. Okay, So I want 0:54:57.800 --> 0:55:00.560 to give the people impression you're making records and to 0:55:00.600 --> 0:55:04.120 get and review whatever. You are living way off the 0:55:04.239 --> 0:55:08.520 music radar. Okay, so what is going through your mind? 0:55:08.600 --> 0:55:12.200 It is a long way from you know, the Liverpool 0:55:12.239 --> 0:55:16.560 Dock to the Hollywood Bowl. I mean, you really think 0:55:16.560 --> 0:55:17.520 you're gonna make it? 0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:23.200 I know, I know. I think it was just I 0:55:23.200 --> 0:55:26.239 don't know really. When we made Midwest Farmer's Daughter, it 0:55:26.360 --> 0:55:30.480 was like this is our one last ditch effort, because 0:55:31.000 --> 0:55:32.759 it was like, all right, we're pouring a lot of 0:55:32.760 --> 0:55:36.120 money into making these records, like how many times can 0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:38.640 we sell everything we own? How many times can we 0:55:38.719 --> 0:55:41.719 like move in with my parents and you know, save 0:55:41.840 --> 0:55:44.600 money and then make another record, and also just going 0:55:44.640 --> 0:55:51.239 out on tours and having and hemorrhaging money. And I 0:55:51.280 --> 0:55:53.200 think it was just, you know, Jeremy was like, no, 0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:56.120 we got we're writing the best songs right now. We 0:55:56.239 --> 0:55:58.040 kind of looked at it like the whole time we 0:55:58.040 --> 0:56:01.080 were just learning the craft, you know, all those records 0:56:01.160 --> 0:56:04.120 leading up to Midwest. Farmer's daughter was like, no, we 0:56:04.120 --> 0:56:06.200 were just learning how to write. Like this is where 0:56:06.239 --> 0:56:08.680 it's just getting good. And so it was him being like, 0:56:08.880 --> 0:56:11.160 I'm going to sell the car. You are going to 0:56:11.160 --> 0:56:15.600 make this record, and someone's gonna put it out. I think. 0:56:15.680 --> 0:56:20.200 You know, my friend Sturgel Simpson, he was he was 0:56:20.239 --> 0:56:23.080 taking off right around that time, and he had also 0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:26.560 been in the trenches of just like you know, having 0:56:26.560 --> 0:56:31.920 an unsuccessful career and seeing how hungry the masses were 0:56:32.080 --> 0:56:38.120 for something that wasn't like of the Nashville machine, was like, okay, 0:56:38.320 --> 0:56:40.480 Like if he can do it, I think I can 0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:43.480 do it, you know. So it was just those little 0:56:43.560 --> 0:56:47.520 moments of like, there were so many times where I 0:56:47.520 --> 0:56:49.640 almost gave up. I remember one time I played a 0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:54.080 show at the Five Spot and guitarist Kenny Vaughan was there. 0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:57.960 And you know, Kenny has played with Marty Stewart for 0:56:58.040 --> 0:57:02.840 years and he's legendary guitar picker in Nashville, and he 0:57:02.880 --> 0:57:05.040 came up to me after the set and he was like, 0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:09.879 that was an incredible show. He's like, you've got it. 0:57:10.400 --> 0:57:13.439 He's like, whatever it is, you've got it, Like, don't 0:57:13.440 --> 0:57:16.640 give up, and like he right when he said that. 0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:18.960 It was like I really needed it that month. I 0:57:19.040 --> 0:57:24.280 really did. I remember just feeling like that was one 0:57:24.280 --> 0:57:26.120 of those times where I was just I was out 0:57:26.200 --> 0:57:28.560 of mustering the strength myself. There was another time I 0:57:28.560 --> 0:57:31.600 played a show with Jasonisboll and he had just you know, 0:57:31.680 --> 0:57:34.440 got off the ground with like Southeastern and everything, and 0:57:34.560 --> 0:57:37.560 he also came up to me and like gave me 0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:41.080 some words of encouragement that I just really needed at 0:57:41.120 --> 0:57:45.400 the time. And so it was all just blind faith 0:57:45.800 --> 0:57:50.000 and uh yeah, like I said, a little bit of stupidity, 0:57:50.160 --> 0:57:53.160 a little bit of like naivity, and just a lot 0:57:53.160 --> 0:57:53.959 of stubbornness. 0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:57.920 Okay, you know, I've been in Nashville a few times. 0:57:57.920 --> 0:58:03.040 I'm not Nashville fluent, but people think, I mean, Nashville's 0:58:03.080 --> 0:58:06.680 really bustling as a metropolis right now. But people think 0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:10.000 in the music business, oh, you go, there's a coterie 0:58:10.080 --> 0:58:14.040 of people, there's pickers, you work on records, and you 0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:18.280 have these writing sessions. You were like off the grid 0:58:18.320 --> 0:58:22.600 in another fucking world. I mean, did you feel like, oh, 0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:25.680 fuck that. Or I mean the way you know you 0:58:25.760 --> 0:58:27.720 talk about it, you might as well be living in 0:58:27.760 --> 0:58:31.280 you know, Oklahoma. You know, there were a few more clubs, 0:58:31.960 --> 0:58:36.400 But did you feel like, you know, well, we're in Nashville, 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:41.120 somehow this works, or you had disdain for the Nashville system. 0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:45.880 I mean, it's not like everybody you were hanging with 0:58:45.960 --> 0:58:46.600 broke through. 0:58:48.000 --> 0:58:50.440 No, absolutely not. I've seen a lot of really talented 0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:54.600 people give it up. I think it's I think it's 0:58:54.680 --> 0:58:59.000 so funny that the people in Nashville that ended up 0:58:59.040 --> 0:59:02.920 breaking me were a couple guys from Detroit. You know. 0:59:03.200 --> 0:59:06.960 It's like Jack White and Ben Swank and Ben Blackwell, 0:59:07.080 --> 0:59:11.120 like they were the people that finally like saw something 0:59:11.200 --> 0:59:13.760 in me, and I had been trying to kind of 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:15.960 get through to them for a while. There was like 0:59:18.200 --> 0:59:22.360 years prior, I had dropped off these series of gifts 0:59:22.680 --> 0:59:25.840 that had riddles written on cards that were for Jack, 0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:30.800 and it was like bizarre objects and things that I thought, okay, 0:59:30.840 --> 0:59:32.920 like if I could get third man into what I'm doing, 0:59:32.960 --> 0:59:37.680 because I knew that they were not, you know, they 0:59:37.680 --> 0:59:43.000 weren't releasing the homogenized vanilla catfish dinner that they saw 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:46.640 all done on Music Row, they were you know, doing 0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:50.160 things that were more rooted. And I especially that Jack 0:59:50.200 --> 0:59:53.920 White album with Loretta Lynn, Like that album was so 0:59:54.120 --> 0:59:59.480 cool to me. It was like, I don't know, I there, 0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:01.840 Like there is is this other side of Nashville that's 1:00:01.880 --> 1:00:05.479 always going on. It's like little clubs, cool places. There's 1:00:05.720 --> 1:00:08.440 great songwriters and they're not always breaking through, but it 1:00:08.760 --> 1:00:13.520 but it exists. And like we had this really strong 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:16.600 click of like it was a few bands and we 1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:19.520 would just play shows together and do our thing and 1:00:19.960 --> 1:00:21.800 share what we were writing with each other. And it 1:00:21.880 --> 1:00:23.800 was like and we don't need to go, you know, 1:00:24.160 --> 1:00:29.400 down to Music Row and co write with all these 1:00:29.400 --> 1:00:31.960 people that like are just writing the same song over 1:00:32.000 --> 1:00:36.000 and over. Like there was a younger, hipper thing going 1:00:36.040 --> 1:00:39.360 on in East Nashville. And I'm I'm so lucky that 1:00:39.440 --> 1:00:43.400 it was there when it was, because it kept me 1:00:43.440 --> 1:00:46.200 going again for a few years, just because it was like, 1:00:46.240 --> 1:00:48.560 all right, we might all be underdogs and we might 1:00:48.600 --> 1:00:51.120 all be losers, but we're here together and we knew 1:00:51.120 --> 1:00:53.000 we were better than half the shit they were pumping 1:00:53.040 --> 1:00:54.360 out on the radio. Anyway. 1:00:55.400 --> 1:01:00.280 Okay, you cut Midwest farmer's daughter, you know your husband says, 1:01:00.280 --> 1:01:02.840 we got to give it one more shot. You said earlier. 1:01:02.920 --> 1:01:06.480 This is, you know, really the last shot. It's not 1:01:06.560 --> 1:01:08.320 like it's embraced immediately. 1:01:11.880 --> 1:01:17.600 It was rejected by every label in town, big and small. 1:01:18.600 --> 1:01:22.919 I sent it to people in England. I sent it 1:01:22.960 --> 1:01:25.040 to people in New York. I mean I was just 1:01:25.120 --> 1:01:28.560 scouring the web for like any indie label, you know, 1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:33.120 like how do we get this out? And rejection after 1:01:33.240 --> 1:01:37.880 rejection came, and it was about a year of just 1:01:37.920 --> 1:01:41.800 sitting on that record and being in complete purgatory. It 1:01:41.880 --> 1:01:45.640 was like, man, maybe we really did blow this, Like 1:01:45.640 --> 1:01:48.000 we shouldn't have sold the car. We shouldn't have like 1:01:48.480 --> 1:01:52.600 pawned all of our recording equipment and guitars and jewelry, 1:01:52.680 --> 1:01:56.880 and I mean it was it was brutal. And you know, 1:01:56.960 --> 1:02:01.400 some of those record labels and that the replies that 1:02:01.440 --> 1:02:03.320 they would give me were just insane. One of them 1:02:03.520 --> 1:02:07.560 was like, oh, we we would love to sign Margo, 1:02:07.600 --> 1:02:10.120 but we already have two girls on our label, so 1:02:10.240 --> 1:02:13.520 we can't. And now I won't say that label's name, 1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:17.160 but they've got many girls and they're all doing well. 1:02:18.400 --> 1:02:21.760 I remember another one, Oh, we're aware of who Margo is. 1:02:21.800 --> 1:02:23.800 And we're just not interested. It was like they didn't 1:02:23.800 --> 1:02:27.040 even listen to it. That was a distribution company. I 1:02:27.040 --> 1:02:29.920 mean I woke up sometimes I would read those emails 1:02:29.960 --> 1:02:33.240 before I got out of bed in the morning, and 1:02:33.520 --> 1:02:38.760 it would just send me like down a drinking spiral. 1:02:38.840 --> 1:02:40.120 It was like, well, I've got to go out and 1:02:40.160 --> 1:02:44.760 get smashed because people still hate me. So glad I 1:02:44.760 --> 1:02:46.920 don't have to live like that anymore. Like now, when 1:02:46.960 --> 1:02:49.560 I get a rejection, I just like just go through 1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:52.800 the feeling and it's done. But that it was a 1:02:52.840 --> 1:02:53.760 really dark period. 1:02:54.080 --> 1:02:57.360 Really was okay, how do you end up getting a 1:02:57.480 --> 1:03:01.400 nibble from Marca? And the ultimately saying no. 1:03:03.400 --> 1:03:04.320 From RCA? 1:03:04.960 --> 1:03:07.240 Was it RCA? There's one label said they wanted to change. 1:03:07.480 --> 1:03:13.000 It was Sony, Right. Yeah. I had a friend who 1:03:13.400 --> 1:03:15.400 her name was Jenny, and she knew some people in 1:03:15.440 --> 1:03:19.120 it Sony, and she sent it in and we typed 1:03:19.120 --> 1:03:23.840 a really great letter with it, and yeah, they said 1:03:23.840 --> 1:03:25.240 come in and we want to hear you play a 1:03:25.240 --> 1:03:27.880 couple of these songs with us. And so I go 1:03:28.000 --> 1:03:32.360 into Sony's office and sitting up there and they had 1:03:32.400 --> 1:03:36.040 been going through like a their CEO had just left 1:03:36.200 --> 1:03:40.280 and it was like who's steering the ship kind of thing. 1:03:41.200 --> 1:03:44.480 But yeah, they said, we love the album, but we 1:03:44.520 --> 1:03:46.560 wondered if you had some stuff that sounded just a 1:03:46.560 --> 1:03:50.360 little bit like poppier. We wanted to take off the 1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:53.280 fiddle and change the walking bassline on this and this 1:03:53.320 --> 1:03:55.760 and this and what about. I'm like, oh, no, you 1:03:55.800 --> 1:03:58.440 want like more of a rock leaning thing. I was 1:03:58.480 --> 1:04:01.160 just doing that with Buffalo cli Over, But like, this 1:04:01.320 --> 1:04:03.200 is what I'm doing now, this is the thing that 1:04:03.280 --> 1:04:09.439 you guys need. And they yeah, they didn't. They didn't 1:04:09.520 --> 1:04:13.600 understand what they had. They didn't understand what it was. 1:04:13.640 --> 1:04:15.800 I think they liked the song four Years of Chances, 1:04:15.880 --> 1:04:19.360 which was like the kind of more like Memphis leaning 1:04:20.440 --> 1:04:24.040 soul funk like vibe, but yeah, the rest of it, 1:04:24.080 --> 1:04:25.800 they wanted to change all of it, and I just 1:04:26.400 --> 1:04:28.320 I just walked away and I said, I'm sorry, I'm 1:04:28.320 --> 1:04:30.240 not changing it. I'm just gonna hold out to see 1:04:30.280 --> 1:04:31.480 if anybody else wants it. 1:04:34.160 --> 1:04:38.520 Well, just to be clear, was it discussions and they 1:04:38.520 --> 1:04:41.600 were way off base or were they saying we want 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:43.480 to sign you, but you have to be different. 1:04:45.840 --> 1:04:49.680 Yeah, I think it was. They were definitely interested, and 1:04:49.720 --> 1:04:53.240 they definitely liked some of what they heard on the album, 1:04:53.720 --> 1:04:57.400 but they were like, we would want to take these 1:04:57.480 --> 1:05:00.560 back into the studio and do this, this, this with them, 1:05:02.040 --> 1:05:05.520 And I just was like, I don't. I don't think 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:07.720 that's the direction you guys need to go. But I mean, 1:05:08.200 --> 1:05:08.640 I don't know. 1:05:09.680 --> 1:05:13.040 Okay, you're in a mirror meeting with these guys, the suits, 1:05:13.120 --> 1:05:18.560 so to speak. You know, not only you're saying, hey, man, 1:05:18.640 --> 1:05:21.200 I don't want to change a fucking note on this record, 1:05:21.640 --> 1:05:24.640 you're also telling them, hey, you guys don't know what's 1:05:24.680 --> 1:05:31.360 going on. Okay. Was this a friendly conversation or was 1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:33.520 it like a standoffish conversation? 1:05:35.640 --> 1:05:40.160 Well, I mean they were technically being friendly to me. 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:43.720 I guess I'm talking about you to them. Yeah, I 1:05:43.720 --> 1:05:46.240 don't think I was being very friendly. Probably, I think 1:05:46.280 --> 1:05:49.240 I walked out of there and you're probably like, who 1:05:49.240 --> 1:05:52.560 the hell was she? What's her? What's her deal? I 1:05:52.560 --> 1:05:55.960 think I remember walking in that day and the person 1:05:56.000 --> 1:05:59.560 at the front desk said, are you the next Taylor Swift? 1:05:59.600 --> 1:06:02.840 And Taylor who? And there was like, you know, there 1:06:02.920 --> 1:06:05.360 was like Carrie Underwood and Miranda Lambert were lake up 1:06:05.360 --> 1:06:07.400 on the walls, and I was like, I just didn't 1:06:07.440 --> 1:06:09.280 feel like I was in the right place from the 1:06:09.320 --> 1:06:12.600 get go. Okay, so yeah, how. 1:06:12.440 --> 1:06:15.440 Do you end up? And how much time does it 1:06:15.520 --> 1:06:17.160 take for third Man to say yes? 1:06:18.880 --> 1:06:23.080 So I had friends that knew people that worked at 1:06:23.080 --> 1:06:25.760 Third Man. But I think that I got on the 1:06:25.920 --> 1:06:30.439 radar by a Rolling Stone article that was written about 1:06:30.480 --> 1:06:36.840 me that said it sounded like Loretta Lynn or Jack 1:06:36.840 --> 1:06:41.520 White produced Loretta Lynn. It's they made that comparison. But 1:06:41.600 --> 1:06:42.000 I went in. 1:06:42.320 --> 1:06:44.840 I was the wait time out, time out here, nobody 1:06:44.880 --> 1:06:47.960 from nowhere. How does Rolling Stone write an article about you? 1:06:49.120 --> 1:06:51.040 Well, they came out. They saw this show that I 1:06:51.080 --> 1:06:54.680 played at the Basement East was opening for a guy 1:06:54.760 --> 1:06:58.760 named J. P. Harris and I played since You Put 1:06:58.800 --> 1:07:01.480 Me Down? I played her on the Bottle. I played 1:07:02.360 --> 1:07:04.440 pretty much, you know, half the songs that are on 1:07:04.560 --> 1:07:07.320 Midwest Farmer's Daughter, and had a really great show. And 1:07:07.360 --> 1:07:09.840 this guy walked up to me. He said, I'm Joe Hudek. 1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:11.600 I just I had just moved here. I'm a writer 1:07:11.680 --> 1:07:14.720 at Rolling Stone. When's your album coming out? And I 1:07:14.760 --> 1:07:17.360 was like, I can't even get anyone to put it out? 1:07:17.440 --> 1:07:19.400 And he was like, okay, I got to write a 1:07:19.480 --> 1:07:24.880 story about you. You're like Nashville's best kept secret. And 1:07:24.920 --> 1:07:27.480 so he wrote that article for me and like that 1:07:27.560 --> 1:07:31.600 it really did. It changed things for me. And I 1:07:31.600 --> 1:07:33.680 don't know if careers are like that anymore. I don't 1:07:33.680 --> 1:07:38.480 know that anybody even reads. But you know, back in 1:07:38.520 --> 1:07:40.720 the day, that was like it was a huge thing. 1:07:40.800 --> 1:07:43.400 It was just like it was a rolling stone headline. 1:07:43.560 --> 1:07:46.600 It made it made waves, and I went in there 1:07:46.640 --> 1:07:49.920 and yes, just started kind of talking to the guys 1:07:49.920 --> 1:07:50.560 at Third Man. 1:07:53.000 --> 1:07:56.200 The article is printed. It's one of the few times 1:07:56.240 --> 1:07:59.120 you have hope with something and it pays off. Are 1:07:59.120 --> 1:08:02.000 an other people look for you after that article comes out? 1:08:02.400 --> 1:08:05.720 Yeah there, I mean at that point then it was like, okay, 1:08:05.760 --> 1:08:11.360 now the booking agencies are coming around management and stuff 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:13.680 as well, because before it was like nobody wanted to 1:08:13.680 --> 1:08:17.280 touch me with a ten foot pull. So yeah, that 1:08:17.479 --> 1:08:23.520 article from Joe Hudak, it just it gave me some clout, 1:08:23.680 --> 1:08:30.680 you know, it gave me. It gave me Yeah, just 1:08:30.760 --> 1:08:34.519 like the all right, they've got my back. They're saying 1:08:34.520 --> 1:08:40.880 this is worthwhile. And yeah, that was that was the 1:08:40.920 --> 1:08:43.120 start of things turning around. That was the start. 1:08:43.680 --> 1:08:45.559 Okay, so tell the third Man story. 1:08:46.600 --> 1:08:50.160 Yeah, So third man, like I said I had. I 1:08:50.200 --> 1:08:53.240 had run into Jack White in the past. I ran 1:08:53.240 --> 1:08:57.559 into him once in a parking lot, probably ten years 1:08:57.600 --> 1:09:02.160 just signing signing with them. But I knew a friend 1:09:02.880 --> 1:09:07.200 who knew Ben Swank who worked there, and he's like, 1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:09.280 we got to get Ben out to a show. He's 1:09:09.320 --> 1:09:11.599 got to see you live. He's got to Once they 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:15.240 see you live, they're going to be into it. So 1:09:15.280 --> 1:09:18.599 he came out, we met, we talked. Then it was like, yeah, 1:09:18.600 --> 1:09:21.200 you got it. You should come in and they've got 1:09:21.200 --> 1:09:24.000 to direct to Acetate recording set up there, you know, 1:09:24.040 --> 1:09:27.280 where they can immediately press anything to a record. 1:09:27.320 --> 1:09:27.639 And so. 1:09:29.120 --> 1:09:31.679 Yeah, it was a long time though of really making 1:09:32.520 --> 1:09:35.080 the all the dots connect because they were so busy 1:09:35.160 --> 1:09:37.040 and I would like show up there and I would 1:09:37.040 --> 1:09:39.040 be like can I come in for a meeting today, 1:09:39.080 --> 1:09:40.800 and they'd be like, oh, we're kind of busy. I 1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:43.719 mean really, it was a long process, and I felt 1:09:43.720 --> 1:09:48.400 like they also wanted to like almost just like do 1:09:48.520 --> 1:09:51.519 a screening process with other people to like make sure 1:09:51.560 --> 1:09:54.720 I wasn't a diva or like it was just like 1:09:55.800 --> 1:09:58.080 I can't explain it, but there were so many little 1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:01.000 things that happened prior to getting some and like going 1:10:01.040 --> 1:10:05.280 in and singing on their direct to acetate thing and 1:10:05.360 --> 1:10:08.519 later finding out Jack was like watching from behind a 1:10:08.560 --> 1:10:11.479 two way mirror and like listening to me singing live 1:10:11.680 --> 1:10:13.920 to also prove like, okay, she made this record, it's 1:10:13.920 --> 1:10:16.040 not all auto tuned, like she can actually sing. 1:10:17.640 --> 1:10:21.800 Well. How long from when that article Hudec wrote till 1:10:21.840 --> 1:10:24.240 the ink was dry at third Man? 1:10:25.760 --> 1:10:29.120 That's a good question. I would have to go sit 1:10:29.200 --> 1:10:33.839 down and do the math. But I would think maybe 1:10:33.920 --> 1:10:35.760 like six to eight months. 1:10:36.160 --> 1:10:39.800 Okay, So okay, with six to eight months, they knew 1:10:39.840 --> 1:10:43.960 who you were, they'd heard the record, you came in 1:10:44.040 --> 1:10:48.400 and saying live. If you didn't bug them and show 1:10:48.520 --> 1:10:50.080 up and say I'm here for a meeting, would it 1:10:50.120 --> 1:10:50.679 have happened? 1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:55.799 I don't know. I would like to think that it would, 1:10:55.880 --> 1:10:58.559 but I mean, like I said, I was just kind 1:10:58.560 --> 1:11:01.720 of relentless. I would just go in there and let's 1:11:01.800 --> 1:11:03.519 let's talk, you know, let's sit down and have a 1:11:03.560 --> 1:11:08.599 meeting and and and finally it you know, it did happen. 1:11:08.720 --> 1:11:12.479 But it's they're they're busy people. They've got you know, 1:11:12.520 --> 1:11:15.240 they're putting out Jack stuff. They're doing his his thing, 1:11:15.400 --> 1:11:21.639 and I, yeah, I really I wanted it. I was hungry. 1:11:21.760 --> 1:11:24.800 I was in there. I was like, this is the 1:11:24.880 --> 1:11:27.000 album cover I have, this is you know, here's the 1:11:27.040 --> 1:11:29.200 songs they're done. This is like really the only thing 1:11:29.240 --> 1:11:33.000 they helped me with was sequencing and getting it all 1:11:33.080 --> 1:11:37.519 in the in the right order. And they're obviously the 1:11:37.560 --> 1:11:41.640 people that that do their album artwork. They made like 1:11:41.680 --> 1:11:44.719 the most beautiful package they had, Like you could plant 1:11:44.760 --> 1:11:47.480 pieces of the lyrics and it would grow wild flowers, 1:11:47.560 --> 1:11:50.800 and like they really put a lot of care into 1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:53.880 making that album like come to life in the way 1:11:53.880 --> 1:11:54.280 that it did. 1:11:54.439 --> 1:11:58.720 Okay, let's be very clear. Six months, we're calling it relentless. 1:11:59.320 --> 1:12:01.600 How many times a week would you show up or 1:12:01.720 --> 1:12:02.880 call or email or what? 1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:06.720 Yeah, a couple of times a week I would I 1:12:06.760 --> 1:12:09.639 would email, I would try to call, and then sometimes 1:12:09.680 --> 1:12:12.920 like I would just show up there and go into 1:12:12.960 --> 1:12:17.240 the record store and there's a back area that I 1:12:17.280 --> 1:12:21.639 was trying to get into, and yeah, it would be like, oh, well, 1:12:21.640 --> 1:12:24.479 we can't do it today, but you know, come back, 1:12:24.640 --> 1:12:27.080 come back next week and we'll try to get a 1:12:27.080 --> 1:12:31.080 meeting set up. And I mean, I was definitely getting 1:12:31.120 --> 1:12:34.280 a little frustrated, but they were really nice. And you know, 1:12:34.360 --> 1:12:36.240 my husband would be like, Okay, just go back and again, 1:12:36.320 --> 1:12:38.200 We'll just go every day. He would drive me up 1:12:38.240 --> 1:12:41.200 there and I would get all dressed up and I 1:12:41.360 --> 1:12:44.519 go in and try to talk about how we were 1:12:44.520 --> 1:12:49.320 going to take over the world, and then eventually it worked. 1:12:49.680 --> 1:12:54.000 I mean, is this your personality? If you want something, 1:12:54.000 --> 1:12:56.480 You're going to show up a million times? 1:12:57.240 --> 1:12:59.519 Hell yeah, I am. I'm not going to take no 1:12:59.600 --> 1:13:04.679 FURNI sir, I am a little relentless in retrospect. 1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:07.960 Were they always going to sign you or Dier? It 1:13:08.000 --> 1:13:09.760 feel like they finally relented. 1:13:13.720 --> 1:13:18.920 I think they were very into the record, but they 1:13:18.960 --> 1:13:25.160 had never put out somebody who wasn't already established. Like 1:13:25.520 --> 1:13:29.240 my lawyer kept telling me that. My lawyer, Kent Marcus, 1:13:29.760 --> 1:13:31.679 he was the only person I had on my team 1:13:31.720 --> 1:13:35.639 at that time, and he would say, Third Man doesn't 1:13:35.680 --> 1:13:40.240 do album deals. They just don't. They just do these singles. 1:13:41.160 --> 1:13:44.360 They do legacy artists, they do Neil Young, they do 1:13:44.439 --> 1:13:46.800 Loretta Lynn. They'll put out something with Willie Nelson, But 1:13:46.840 --> 1:13:50.280 they're not going to put your record out. And I 1:13:50.320 --> 1:13:52.080 was like, no, no, no, like they are. I think 1:13:52.080 --> 1:13:57.000 they're into it. I really think they are. And I 1:13:57.040 --> 1:14:00.360 mean so it was like we made history. They they 1:14:00.400 --> 1:14:03.960 had never broken an artist the way that they broke me, 1:14:04.280 --> 1:14:07.960 and I feel so grateful. I mean it was like 1:14:08.840 --> 1:14:11.960 even just getting that album on the charts. I'd never 1:14:12.040 --> 1:14:15.000 had a single that hit the charts, and then the 1:14:15.040 --> 1:14:17.320 album like made it into the top ten. That was 1:14:17.439 --> 1:14:19.080 like broke a Billboard record. 1:14:27.040 --> 1:14:30.519 Okay, but you ultimately switched to Loma Vista, then you 1:14:30.560 --> 1:14:33.000 feel some sort of allegiance what happened there. 1:14:35.680 --> 1:14:43.800 I did switch labels, and I did have I mean, 1:14:43.840 --> 1:14:50.479 I've remained friends with everyone at Third Man, and you know, 1:14:50.880 --> 1:14:53.080 I tried to put all these clauses in, like Okay, 1:14:53.120 --> 1:14:55.519 well I want them to press my albums, you know, 1:14:55.680 --> 1:14:58.160 like I want them to do the vinyl part of it. 1:14:58.200 --> 1:15:02.519 I still wanted them to be involved, but ultimately it 1:15:02.600 --> 1:15:05.920 was just I needed a contract. I needed to get 1:15:06.200 --> 1:15:10.040 back to work. Loma Vista was there. They came in 1:15:10.640 --> 1:15:15.040 and so yeah, that's that's been where I where I've 1:15:15.080 --> 1:15:18.519 been at. But I I still, I mean, third Man 1:15:18.600 --> 1:15:23.040 is like like family there. 1:15:23.120 --> 1:15:27.920 You know, Okay, did third Man say wait a second, don't. 1:15:27.680 --> 1:15:31.280 Go You know, no one's ever asked me these questions 1:15:31.320 --> 1:15:34.400 point blank. You're making me hard to dance around it. 1:15:35.080 --> 1:15:37.200 I think, you know, they they maybe they wanted me 1:15:37.240 --> 1:15:42.400 to stay. I think they maybe they did, but I 1:15:42.479 --> 1:15:46.760 just needed more bandwidth. They just needed to be able to, 1:15:48.000 --> 1:15:52.000 you know, to continue to grow. And I actually I 1:15:52.080 --> 1:15:55.800 was just in third Man just Friday. My guitar played 1:15:55.800 --> 1:15:57.920 my new guitar player. He played a show there, and 1:15:57.960 --> 1:16:01.320 I went in and and hung out with Ben Swank, 1:16:01.320 --> 1:16:03.960 and I just played a festival, and I just watched 1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:06.880 Jack shred side stage. And you know, every time I 1:16:06.880 --> 1:16:11.439 see them, we always have a great conversation, and I 1:16:11.479 --> 1:16:15.960 wouldn't put it out of you know that we would 1:16:15.960 --> 1:16:18.960 work together again in the future. I love them like 1:16:19.080 --> 1:16:20.760 family and I owe them so much. 1:16:21.600 --> 1:16:25.080 Okay, they ultimately signed the record, which hasn't changed from 1:16:25.120 --> 1:16:28.439 when you cut it in Memphis. Hudeck has written the 1:16:28.600 --> 1:16:33.920 article what did they do, if anything, to break you 1:16:34.200 --> 1:16:35.760 other than put the record out? 1:16:37.560 --> 1:16:39.880 Well, like I said, everybody that worked there was just 1:16:39.920 --> 1:16:44.920 so wildly creative, and they always had great ideas of 1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:51.680 how we could get good exposure, make a splash. There 1:16:51.760 --> 1:16:56.880 was like a time during Americana Fest week that I 1:16:56.920 --> 1:17:02.760 was up for a couple awards and didn't end up 1:17:02.760 --> 1:17:06.760 walking home with anything. Not many women did that year. 1:17:06.800 --> 1:17:10.680 It was a very male dominated year. And then we 1:17:10.760 --> 1:17:12.680 just decided we were like, you know what, let's do 1:17:13.000 --> 1:17:17.639 a concert on the Third Man rooftop, and we can't. 1:17:17.960 --> 1:17:20.280 We pulled a Beatles and we went up there and 1:17:21.720 --> 1:17:25.120 did a concert from the roof. And they always had 1:17:25.960 --> 1:17:30.519 incredible ideas for like gear marketing and going in and 1:17:30.560 --> 1:17:34.240 you know, like even papering a town with it was 1:17:34.400 --> 1:17:36.639 just yeah, it was always attention to detail. 1:17:37.120 --> 1:17:40.760 Okay, those were all very innovative. In some case grassroots. 1:17:41.240 --> 1:17:44.360 That doesn't drive your record to top ten, So what 1:17:44.560 --> 1:17:47.800 accounted for we'll call it commercial, But just being on 1:17:47.840 --> 1:17:51.160 the national radar, having people listen, having radio play it. 1:17:51.240 --> 1:17:52.280 How did that happen? 1:17:52.560 --> 1:17:57.080 Your guess is as good as mine. I think just 1:17:57.240 --> 1:18:00.760 having like third Man in my corner, it just gave 1:18:00.800 --> 1:18:06.760 me cool points. And people just wanted us to come 1:18:06.800 --> 1:18:10.800 play their TV shows. I mean we really we the 1:18:10.840 --> 1:18:14.080 band and I had been working so hard at refining 1:18:14.120 --> 1:18:18.400 our sounds, making that live show fun to watch and 1:18:20.160 --> 1:18:25.479 road tight, and we've played this south By Southwest, that 1:18:26.439 --> 1:18:28.880 south By Southwest season. I guess It would have been 1:18:30.400 --> 1:18:34.160 March of twenty fifteen or twenty maybe it was twenty sixteen. 1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:39.360 We had Saturday Night live. Bookers came out watched my 1:18:39.479 --> 1:18:42.759 set at Stubbs, just watched me in the band play 1:18:42.840 --> 1:18:46.280 and they were like, your band is incredible, we want 1:18:46.320 --> 1:18:49.280 to book you. And so, you know, a lot of 1:18:49.320 --> 1:18:52.000 it was just having the cool points of Third Man 1:18:53.280 --> 1:18:57.000 having Jack in my corner, but then a lot of 1:18:57.000 --> 1:19:00.080 it was just us going out and playing shows and 1:19:00.080 --> 1:19:04.519 and promoters and bookers seeing it and digging it and 1:19:05.000 --> 1:19:07.040 wanting to share their stage with us. 1:19:08.600 --> 1:19:10.880 Okay, so you make a deal with third Man, you 1:19:10.960 --> 1:19:12.920 have the lawyer of a long standing how do you 1:19:13.000 --> 1:19:14.519 get a manager and an agent? 1:19:14.600 --> 1:19:19.640 Ultimately, Yeah, I had been begging people to manage me, 1:19:19.880 --> 1:19:22.799 and then suddenly it was like they all came running 1:19:22.840 --> 1:19:26.360 at the same time. I went out to a lot 1:19:26.360 --> 1:19:29.639 of different meetings with a lot of different folks and 1:19:30.960 --> 1:19:34.840 ended up signing with Jack's management, who they put me 1:19:34.920 --> 1:19:38.720 up at Chateau Vermont. I had never been in a 1:19:38.720 --> 1:19:44.559 place so fancy. I also just loved everyone who worked there, 1:19:45.040 --> 1:19:49.840 and so we Yeah, they just started digging in and 1:19:50.080 --> 1:19:52.679 it was the first time I'd ever had that kind 1:19:52.680 --> 1:19:57.720 of like manpower behind me. And Jonathan Vine has been 1:19:57.720 --> 1:19:59.880 my booking agent. I just love him. I adore him. 1:20:00.720 --> 1:20:03.280 Okay, but who is your manager today? 1:20:04.000 --> 1:20:08.880 My manager today is Kevin Morris, Corncapshaw and Perry Greenfield. 1:20:10.200 --> 1:20:11.839 And how did that end up happening? 1:20:12.400 --> 1:20:17.280 So had I had been with my management for more 1:20:17.320 --> 1:20:21.519 than a decade and I just really felt that I 1:20:21.560 --> 1:20:25.600 needed people here in Nashville. You know that, you know, 1:20:25.840 --> 1:20:28.080 might seem crazy after a decade, but it was like 1:20:29.840 --> 1:20:33.479 I everyone that I had was out in La or 1:20:33.560 --> 1:20:37.040 New York, and I had when I met everyone there, 1:20:37.200 --> 1:20:42.320 it was like I was still a kid and I 1:20:42.400 --> 1:20:44.240 was working with this woman for a very long time. 1:20:44.320 --> 1:20:46.280 She was like my day to day I grew up 1:20:46.280 --> 1:20:49.800 with I grew up with her, and I wanted to 1:20:49.840 --> 1:20:55.760 come into this season of hard headed woman. I had 1:20:55.800 --> 1:20:58.360 a lot of things that, like I said, I had 1:20:58.400 --> 1:21:01.519 just grown personally and I wanted to be able to 1:21:03.280 --> 1:21:07.760 come in with this like fresh energy. And it's very 1:21:07.800 --> 1:21:10.840 hard to do that when you've established a working relationship 1:21:10.880 --> 1:21:12.800 for ten years and then you know, say I want 1:21:12.840 --> 1:21:15.120 to change and do things a different way. Well, I've 1:21:15.160 --> 1:21:20.879 been you know, operating completely different. So I just started 1:21:20.920 --> 1:21:27.320 fresh and it's been great. I have a new band 1:21:27.320 --> 1:21:31.280 as well, and it's been so much change for me. 1:21:32.120 --> 1:21:33.840 I've been working with all the same people. 1:21:34.000 --> 1:21:36.880 Okay, so what is different with the new managers? 1:21:37.680 --> 1:21:45.000 Just you know, the excitement of this record and the 1:21:45.040 --> 1:21:48.120 excitement of all the things I have yet to do. 1:21:49.680 --> 1:21:53.400 They share in that excitement, and like I said, having 1:21:53.479 --> 1:21:56.839 people on ground and like on foot here in Nashville 1:21:56.880 --> 1:21:58.960 like today to get ready for this podcast, I had 1:21:58.960 --> 1:22:02.400 someone here come help me set up all the stuff 1:22:02.439 --> 1:22:05.400 that I needed. And before I was like paying a 1:22:05.439 --> 1:22:08.960 tour manager to come do that, and you know, it 1:22:09.120 --> 1:22:12.160 just it didn't It just didn't make sense logistically anymore. 1:22:13.080 --> 1:22:16.120 Okay, what are all these things you want to do? 1:22:18.040 --> 1:22:20.200 All the things I want to do. I want to 1:22:21.960 --> 1:22:27.719 continue to write more books. I want to I would 1:22:27.720 --> 1:22:30.280 like to act. I would like to break into film. 1:22:30.520 --> 1:22:37.080 I would like to write scores for movies and soundtracks 1:22:37.200 --> 1:22:42.880 and even write more for other people. You know, I've 1:22:43.000 --> 1:22:44.880 got a lot of songs that I don't cut. I've 1:22:44.880 --> 1:22:47.639 got a lot of songs that I've written that could 1:22:47.680 --> 1:22:51.320 be great for other people. So there's just I've done 1:22:51.400 --> 1:22:53.320 so much in my career that I'm so proud of. 1:22:53.400 --> 1:22:55.639 But there's still is There's still a lot left. 1:22:55.760 --> 1:22:58.000 Okay, the game is changed. It was an article the 1:22:58.040 --> 1:23:01.559 Any Times just yesterday. Is there a movie business when 1:23:01.640 --> 1:23:06.240 everybody's got a movie studio in their pocket? So that 1:23:06.320 --> 1:23:08.960 leads to the question, to what degree are you on 1:23:09.040 --> 1:23:12.320 social media? To what degree are you creating yourself because 1:23:12.320 --> 1:23:13.920 you have the tools. 1:23:16.800 --> 1:23:20.320 Historically I have done most of my social media myself 1:23:20.920 --> 1:23:24.439 because I'm a control freak and I don't want anything 1:23:24.600 --> 1:23:29.720 to read as ungenuine or you know, I just I 1:23:29.840 --> 1:23:34.519 like things. I'm very particular. But I've relented in the 1:23:34.560 --> 1:23:38.880 past few months to other people helping me and doing it. 1:23:38.960 --> 1:23:41.400 And I need that bandwidth because I want to spend 1:23:41.400 --> 1:23:43.759 my time writing songs. I want to spend my time, 1:23:44.680 --> 1:23:48.280 you know, working on on my next book. I don't 1:23:48.280 --> 1:23:52.679 want to sit and have to do all the editing 1:23:52.760 --> 1:23:55.400 and think about, Okay, this needs to go up this 1:23:55.479 --> 1:23:57.880 day because you know, tickets are on sale this day, 1:23:57.960 --> 1:24:01.320 and it just it's It's been really helpful to have 1:24:01.600 --> 1:24:06.080 a whole team of people working behind me, and I 1:24:06.120 --> 1:24:10.479 think I've always been a great leader. Delegating is what 1:24:10.560 --> 1:24:14.240 I do best. But I can't do everything myself, and 1:24:14.280 --> 1:24:17.519 for a long time I really was okay. 1:24:17.640 --> 1:24:20.120 In your book, you talk about being on Saturday Night 1:24:20.200 --> 1:24:26.840 Live and being depressed. It also social media blowback. Talk 1:24:26.880 --> 1:24:29.240 about that and what's ensued thereafter. 1:24:31.439 --> 1:24:40.320 Well, absolutely, I think social media is something that people 1:24:40.360 --> 1:24:44.800 really have to protect their mental health when you're using it, 1:24:44.920 --> 1:24:51.759 especially young women. And I had a really hard time 1:24:52.080 --> 1:24:55.160 reading all of the negative comments, especially when so much 1:24:55.200 --> 1:24:59.040 of it was not about the music, so much of 1:24:59.080 --> 1:25:01.519 it was based on my life looks, and you know, 1:25:01.640 --> 1:25:05.280 I'm not a model. I'm a musician I am. I 1:25:05.320 --> 1:25:12.240 am here to tell stories and sing about my feelings 1:25:12.280 --> 1:25:16.200 and about the world. And that's what really frustrated me 1:25:16.280 --> 1:25:19.719 so much about it. I've struggled with my self image, 1:25:19.840 --> 1:25:29.080 I've struggled with my weight, body positivity, my looks. I recently, 1:25:29.240 --> 1:25:34.160 just about a year ago, ended up having rhinoplasty, which 1:25:34.320 --> 1:25:37.240 for years I just said I would not do because 1:25:37.760 --> 1:25:40.120 again I didn't want anyone to say I was fake 1:25:40.280 --> 1:25:43.479 or not genuine or you know, but I was having 1:25:44.400 --> 1:25:48.240 I was struggling with a deviated septum with some breathing issues. 1:25:48.479 --> 1:25:52.439 Every time I would fly, I would get really bad 1:25:52.520 --> 1:25:54.479 pain in my ears, and so I went to this 1:25:54.520 --> 1:25:59.360 ear nose and throat specialist and the surgery was accommodation 1:25:59.600 --> 1:26:06.200 of cause medic and like you know, physical and it's 1:26:06.280 --> 1:26:10.040 really it's improved my self confidence. But I wanted to 1:26:10.080 --> 1:26:13.439 be completely transparent about it because I think that it's 1:26:13.560 --> 1:26:18.760 just impossible for little girls today or just any any 1:26:18.840 --> 1:26:21.599 human growing up and feeling like we have to fit 1:26:21.640 --> 1:26:23.840 into this mold. And it's like people just need to 1:26:23.840 --> 1:26:25.360 know that a lot of what they're looking at is 1:26:25.400 --> 1:26:28.599 not real. People have help, they have makeup artists, they 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:31.960 have hairstylists, they have surgeries, they do all these things, 1:26:32.040 --> 1:26:35.760 and then they're not transparent about it. And I just 1:26:35.880 --> 1:26:39.760 feel like I wanted to be completely transparent about it. 1:26:39.800 --> 1:26:44.080 I didn't want to I didn't want to just brush 1:26:44.120 --> 1:26:46.000 it under the rug and not talk about it because 1:26:46.000 --> 1:26:48.400 it's been something that has impacted me my whole life, 1:26:48.560 --> 1:26:51.240 and I feel like it's impacted my career, like, oh 1:26:51.280 --> 1:26:54.040 maybe if I would have, you know, looked a certain 1:26:54.040 --> 1:26:56.599 way at a certain time, then I would have got farther. 1:26:56.880 --> 1:26:59.479 And you know, that's unfortunately just the kind of world 1:26:59.479 --> 1:27:04.720 that we live in, and it is a very like 1:27:04.840 --> 1:27:08.679 people are just so vapid and worried about looks. And 1:27:09.280 --> 1:27:14.240 it's really unfortunate, but that's what we focus on many 1:27:14.280 --> 1:27:15.920 times instead of the art. 1:27:17.560 --> 1:27:21.920 Many people who have one plastic surgery then go on 1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:25.800 to have other surgeries. Is are there other things you 1:27:25.920 --> 1:27:28.160 want to fix or you think you're one and done. 1:27:30.320 --> 1:27:34.759 Well. I think you can definitely get down a rabbit 1:27:34.800 --> 1:27:39.080 hole of trying to fix everything. And I definitely struggle with, 1:27:39.200 --> 1:27:47.559 you know, perfectionism, but I hope that I don't get 1:27:47.600 --> 1:27:51.360 carried away with that because I mean, I'm a human. 1:27:51.400 --> 1:27:54.760 I'm going to age's you know. I think women right 1:27:54.760 --> 1:27:57.920 now are really faced with some difficult decisions because it's 1:27:58.000 --> 1:28:01.760 like you age naturally. People are going to crucify you 1:28:01.800 --> 1:28:04.640 for that. You decide to get help and you know, 1:28:05.479 --> 1:28:08.680 keep propping things up, You're going to get judged for that. 1:28:09.880 --> 1:28:12.639 And so I don't know. Right now, I feel very content. 1:28:12.720 --> 1:28:15.320 I don't feel the need to do anything else, But 1:28:17.040 --> 1:28:18.920 I don't know. I guess we'll just see. We'll just 1:28:18.960 --> 1:28:22.080 see where my later years take me. I love like 1:28:22.120 --> 1:28:25.080 looking at people like Joni Mitchell and Patti Smith. I 1:28:25.520 --> 1:28:28.519 often turn to like Patti Smith when I'm feeling really 1:28:28.560 --> 1:28:33.519 weak and getting lost and you know, the the Nashville 1:28:33.600 --> 1:28:36.439 way of just like all the fake eyelashes and the 1:28:36.600 --> 1:28:39.519 hair teased up to high heavens, and it's like no, 1:28:39.760 --> 1:28:45.000 you can also you can also choose to to just 1:28:45.080 --> 1:28:49.320 completely go a different way and just be radically aged. 1:28:50.600 --> 1:28:54.080 Okay, going back to the social media blowback, I mean, 1:28:54.080 --> 1:28:57.160 before social media, you had artists say I don't read 1:28:57.240 --> 1:28:59.840 my reviews. Then there are other people who say I 1:29:00.080 --> 1:29:03.240 eat them. But you know, you're really not as good 1:29:03.240 --> 1:29:05.679 as the good ones, not as bad as the bad ones. 1:29:06.920 --> 1:29:09.320 How do you approach this? And how do you as 1:29:09.360 --> 1:29:11.680 a woman? Never mind, you don't have to be a 1:29:11.720 --> 1:29:15.120 woman if you have a public stance at all, I 1:29:15.200 --> 1:29:19.160 can tell you myself, people are attacking your looks. How 1:29:19.160 --> 1:29:22.640 do you deal with it? 1:29:22.640 --> 1:29:26.599 It's true, it's very unfortunate that we can all sit 1:29:26.640 --> 1:29:28.960 behind our little screens and say things we would never 1:29:29.000 --> 1:29:36.559 say to someone's face. I do read reviews, and I 1:29:36.600 --> 1:29:39.679 do think that there is a place in this world 1:29:39.760 --> 1:29:44.840 for criticism of art, and I do it myself all 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:47.360 the time. I'm very judgy, Like when I don't like something, 1:29:47.400 --> 1:29:49.120 I know that I don't like it, whether it's a 1:29:49.160 --> 1:29:52.200 painting or whether it's a song or an album, and 1:29:53.640 --> 1:29:57.280 I don't get too upset when I get a negative review. 1:29:57.320 --> 1:30:01.000 I'm like, oh, okay, maybe Like and something gets a 1:30:01.000 --> 1:30:03.680 strong reaction from somebody, like I can't I chalk that 1:30:03.800 --> 1:30:07.519 up as good. It's like, all right, they didn't dig it, 1:30:07.640 --> 1:30:12.320 but that's okay. They don't have to. The other thing, though, 1:30:12.400 --> 1:30:15.479 is just with social media in general, and just putting 1:30:15.560 --> 1:30:17.800 up anything and then reading the comments that can be 1:30:17.880 --> 1:30:22.479 underneath it. That can be very scary. And I don't 1:30:22.520 --> 1:30:25.559 always get in there, and I don't always read every 1:30:25.600 --> 1:30:29.280 single comment because I'll remember the bad one and I 1:30:29.320 --> 1:30:33.439 won't remember the twenty good ones that people left. But 1:30:33.520 --> 1:30:36.000 I just, yeah, I just let it roll off my back. 1:30:36.040 --> 1:30:39.000 I think I've gotten really thick skin since the Saturday 1:30:39.040 --> 1:30:44.759 Night Live thing. I've gotten a lot tougher. If somebody 1:30:45.040 --> 1:30:48.320 makes fun of my looks, it's like, okay, well, if 1:30:48.360 --> 1:30:50.000 that's all you can think of, you don't have very 1:30:50.080 --> 1:30:53.320 much creativity, and your put downs is like much more 1:30:53.920 --> 1:31:01.040 insulting to put down, Like I don't know, like John Rich, 1:31:01.200 --> 1:31:03.880 you know, I can't stand that guy. I'm like, we'll 1:31:03.920 --> 1:31:06.760 just say, like his his hair plugs or his like 1:31:06.880 --> 1:31:12.200 fake dyed hair, then actually saying like, no, your music sucks. 1:31:13.280 --> 1:31:16.320 That's that's what really hurts me. If somebody wants to 1:31:16.360 --> 1:31:19.719 hurt me, they can say my say my art's not good, 1:31:19.800 --> 1:31:23.360 or say my poetry is bad. But I'm not gonna 1:31:23.960 --> 1:31:27.960 be hurt if someone says like, oh, she has no 1:31:28.120 --> 1:31:31.479 ass or you know, whatever comment they're gonna spew it 1:31:31.560 --> 1:31:33.599 me okay. 1:31:34.439 --> 1:31:40.479 John Rich is a very Republican facing guy, very out 1:31:41.720 --> 1:31:45.880 Nashville is a blue city in a red state. Where 1:31:45.880 --> 1:31:49.040 are you and what do you feel about the everyday 1:31:49.080 --> 1:31:51.519 politics of Tennessee and the nation. 1:31:54.840 --> 1:32:03.479 I think it's heartbreaking to see how divided everybody is, 1:32:04.760 --> 1:32:11.840 and I think we have At the same time, I 1:32:11.880 --> 1:32:17.320 think I'm proud to stand up for things that are 1:32:17.360 --> 1:32:22.599 wrong or injust because we've got to use our voice 1:32:22.600 --> 1:32:25.160 while we still have it. I mean, we really I 1:32:25.240 --> 1:32:29.080 do feel that there is a threat to democracy and 1:32:29.240 --> 1:32:35.600 seeing what's happened to like Stephen Colbert, it's really disheartening. 1:32:35.840 --> 1:32:43.080 It's unprecedented times we're living in and I know, without 1:32:43.080 --> 1:32:48.040 a shadow of a doubt that my career could be 1:32:48.120 --> 1:32:53.640 further whatever that means. If I would have probably kept 1:32:54.360 --> 1:32:57.200 a lot of my opinions to myself and maybe not 1:32:57.280 --> 1:33:00.600 shared so many things that are more like role or 1:33:00.640 --> 1:33:05.280 more like socialist ideals. But yeah, like I said, I 1:33:05.960 --> 1:33:10.599 think we need that because we've got women's rights are 1:33:10.640 --> 1:33:20.920 just disappearing right before us Tennessee lawmakers. I don't trust them. 1:33:21.040 --> 1:33:24.840 They don't have our best interests in mind. They are 1:33:25.840 --> 1:33:28.439 their pockets are being filled by the NRA. So of 1:33:28.479 --> 1:33:33.320 course when there's a shooting right where my children, right 1:33:33.360 --> 1:33:35.479 near where my children go to school, I'm going to 1:33:35.560 --> 1:33:39.519 show up and I'm going to protest because we need 1:33:40.040 --> 1:33:46.680 more gun laws. You know, I just couldn't sleep at 1:33:46.760 --> 1:33:51.240 night if I didn't use my platform in a way 1:33:51.400 --> 1:33:57.320 that I think is meaningful. And I mean my songs too. 1:33:57.320 --> 1:34:05.760 I hope that they reflect love and positivity and just 1:34:06.439 --> 1:34:10.120 make people think and open their minds, because we're really 1:34:10.560 --> 1:34:13.640 getting to a dangerous place in our country where no 1:34:13.640 --> 1:34:16.439 one can sit down and have a conversation. So it's like, 1:34:16.479 --> 1:34:19.400 I'm not angry at anybody who's on the right. Honestly, 1:34:19.479 --> 1:34:22.519 I think that I've gotten rid of a lot of 1:34:22.520 --> 1:34:26.559 my anger and how frustrated I used to be. I'm 1:34:26.560 --> 1:34:30.120 more interested in talking with people and wanting to see 1:34:30.120 --> 1:34:32.479 how they came to those conclusions, so maybe we can 1:34:32.520 --> 1:34:36.000 move beyond that, get somewhere else. 1:34:36.960 --> 1:34:41.200 Did you grow up in a liberal family? Were they conservative? 1:34:41.240 --> 1:34:43.160 And you've made these leash you're own. 1:34:45.240 --> 1:34:49.240 I grew up in a completely divided household, half liberal, 1:34:49.280 --> 1:34:55.000 half conservative, and yeah, and one side of my family 1:34:55.120 --> 1:34:57.760 was more red and one side of my family it 1:34:57.760 --> 1:34:58.439 was more so. 1:34:58.479 --> 1:34:59.520 What was Thanksgiving? 1:34:59.680 --> 1:35:04.880 Like? It was interesting? It was and it's and it 1:35:05.000 --> 1:35:10.320 still is and you know, but it's like I'm seeing 1:35:10.360 --> 1:35:14.559 a Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks, like they're coming together. 1:35:14.760 --> 1:35:18.160 So like maybe if they can come together, maybe Republicans 1:35:18.200 --> 1:35:21.760 and Democrats are all gonna come to Maybe there's hope 1:35:21.760 --> 1:35:24.760 for us still if they're burying the hatchet. I don't know. 1:35:25.000 --> 1:35:34.240 I think I I have no regrets for anything I've 1:35:34.720 --> 1:35:40.240 I've said or done. I just hope that, yeah, that 1:35:40.320 --> 1:35:44.200 America can can move ahead. It feels it feels like 1:35:44.240 --> 1:35:47.280 we're at some kind of like breaking point and it's 1:35:48.240 --> 1:35:50.599 it's hard time to even put out music because God, 1:35:50.720 --> 1:35:51.719 the world's fallen apart. 1:35:57.960 --> 1:36:04.559 Okay, you talk about books. You had a book come 1:36:04.600 --> 1:36:06.920 out in twenty twenty two. I've been quoting a lot 1:36:06.920 --> 1:36:09.920 of stuff from it. Maybe we'll make it. How did 1:36:09.960 --> 1:36:10.680 that come to be? 1:36:13.680 --> 1:36:17.360 I am an avid reader. It's been a huge part 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:24.440 of my songwriting, and I've I've always loved reading like memoirs, 1:36:24.479 --> 1:36:27.280 and anytime I get into an artist, I go see 1:36:27.320 --> 1:36:30.000 if you know, either they've written something or somebody's written 1:36:30.040 --> 1:36:36.360 something about them. And really I kind of began writing 1:36:36.360 --> 1:36:44.160 the book when I found myself pregnant in twenty eighteen, 1:36:45.760 --> 1:36:48.400 and it's like my career had just taken off. I'd 1:36:48.400 --> 1:36:51.800 just gotten nominated for you know, Best New Artists at 1:36:51.800 --> 1:36:54.280 the Grammys, and then hear I'm like, oh, I'm pregnant. 1:36:54.720 --> 1:36:58.479 It really couldn't be worse timing, but it was. Writing 1:36:58.479 --> 1:37:00.960 that book was just something to keep myself busy, and 1:37:02.040 --> 1:37:07.679 also just a way to remember where I came from, 1:37:07.720 --> 1:37:11.679 to remember all those little nuanced things about those early years. 1:37:12.680 --> 1:37:16.840 And you know, it was definitely inspired by reading just 1:37:17.000 --> 1:37:20.559 Kids like one too many times and thinking like, Okay, 1:37:20.560 --> 1:37:22.000 that's the kind of book I want to write. I 1:37:22.000 --> 1:37:25.000 want to write about that ten years that we were struggling. 1:37:25.040 --> 1:37:27.960 And even now I've started writing down the next ten 1:37:28.080 --> 1:37:32.560 years because it's just so easy to forget things if 1:37:32.600 --> 1:37:34.120 you don't write it down. 1:37:34.600 --> 1:37:37.240 What came first, the book or the book deal? 1:37:38.840 --> 1:37:42.080 The book? Yeah, I was writing the book every single day. 1:37:42.200 --> 1:37:44.080 I would go sit down, write this book. And then 1:37:44.080 --> 1:37:47.280 I got on Twitter and I wrote, I'm writing a book. 1:37:47.360 --> 1:37:51.680 And my friend Jessica Hopper, she worked at University of 1:37:51.680 --> 1:37:54.519 Texas Press or she knew somebody who worked there, and 1:37:54.560 --> 1:37:56.760 they said, hey, can we read the manuscript? And I 1:37:56.800 --> 1:37:59.960 was like, yeah, sure, so they read it. They immediately 1:38:00.000 --> 1:38:05.120 gave me a book deal, and I've loved getting the 1:38:05.160 --> 1:38:07.920 book out there. I should have, in hindsight, I should 1:38:07.960 --> 1:38:10.759 have sent the manuscript around to a few different people 1:38:10.840 --> 1:38:15.880 and got some other options. But they're a you know, 1:38:15.920 --> 1:38:21.640 they're a nonprofit. They're an indie book dealer. And we 1:38:21.640 --> 1:38:23.400 were so close to making it on the New York 1:38:23.400 --> 1:38:25.880 Times bestseller list that first week. I don't know what. 1:38:26.000 --> 1:38:28.080 I don't know how he didn't. That's a very mysterious 1:38:28.120 --> 1:38:34.320 list to get on. But very happy with just getting 1:38:34.320 --> 1:38:37.479 that book out. It felt freeing for me in a 1:38:37.479 --> 1:38:38.320 lot of ways. 1:38:39.200 --> 1:38:42.920 Okay, book business, I'll just put it this way, is 1:38:42.920 --> 1:38:46.439 the amateur hour compared to the music business in terms 1:38:46.439 --> 1:38:48.479 of publicity all kinds of things. So what was your 1:38:48.520 --> 1:38:50.120 experience of putting out a book. 1:38:52.800 --> 1:38:55.799 It was great. We did a tour. We went around 1:38:55.880 --> 1:39:02.479 to small bookstores all across the country. I like I said, 1:39:02.520 --> 1:39:04.840 I had really high hopes of being on that New 1:39:04.920 --> 1:39:08.800 York Times bestseller list. That was like one of my 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:11.439 bucket list things I wanted. It was. I got a 1:39:11.479 --> 1:39:16.040 little depressed posts not making the New York Times bestseller list, 1:39:16.080 --> 1:39:18.439 but look, that still gives me something to strive for. 1:39:19.880 --> 1:39:21.800 At the time, everybody said, like, why are you writing 1:39:21.800 --> 1:39:25.360 a book? You're way too young, Like I don't understand 1:39:25.360 --> 1:39:29.240 why you're writing a book in your forties, But I 1:39:29.280 --> 1:39:33.400 don't know. It was just it encapsulates that time period, 1:39:34.120 --> 1:39:39.120 and I processed so much, Like at the beginning of 1:39:39.120 --> 1:39:41.800 starting writing the book, I was still drinking and it 1:39:41.840 --> 1:39:44.000 was COVID, and then I went through COVID and I 1:39:44.040 --> 1:39:47.000 was like trying to finish this book while having a 1:39:47.040 --> 1:39:52.040 young child at home and drinking too much. And like, 1:39:52.360 --> 1:39:55.120 through the writing of the book, I kind of realized, like, 1:39:55.680 --> 1:40:01.040 damn this, my drinking is a problem, and it's insane 1:40:01.080 --> 1:40:03.080 that I would have to read it back to myself 1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:06.880 to know that, because shit, I mean I hit my 1:40:06.880 --> 1:40:09.479 car into a telephone pole tried to outrun two cops. 1:40:09.520 --> 1:40:12.120 I like I said, my husband and I were having 1:40:12.160 --> 1:40:16.639 all sorts of troubles. There was nothing good that drinking 1:40:16.760 --> 1:40:19.840 was bringing into my life. But until I kind of 1:40:19.840 --> 1:40:21.519 read it back and I had a published I had 1:40:21.520 --> 1:40:26.439 an editor, and I remember she read it and she said, Wow, 1:40:26.479 --> 1:40:29.880 it's like whiskey is like a character in your book. 1:40:30.520 --> 1:40:32.679 And there was just really no ending to it either. 1:40:32.840 --> 1:40:35.200 And so once I kind of decided that I was 1:40:35.240 --> 1:40:37.240 going to quit drinking, then it was like, okay, well 1:40:37.240 --> 1:40:40.080 there's the ending of the book. It's like, I'm not 1:40:40.120 --> 1:40:41.439 going to live like this anymore. 1:40:43.200 --> 1:40:47.599 Okay, a couple of things. What did you leave out 1:40:47.640 --> 1:40:48.120 of the book? 1:40:49.560 --> 1:40:55.360 Oh? Well, I can't tell you. Dolly says, you always 1:40:55.360 --> 1:40:56.839 got to save something for yourself. 1:40:57.000 --> 1:41:00.679 Well, let me put the question a different way. Did 1:41:00.720 --> 1:41:03.519 you leave things out of the book either because they 1:41:03.560 --> 1:41:05.960 were too raw and you didn't want to reveal them, 1:41:06.360 --> 1:41:08.799 or you didn't potentially want to hurt third parties. 1:41:10.600 --> 1:41:15.800 It was a combination of both. I have people in 1:41:15.840 --> 1:41:20.479 my life that are still alive and that mean very 1:41:20.600 --> 1:41:24.599 much to me, but I couldn't go into a lot 1:41:24.640 --> 1:41:27.599 of my family dynamics. There was a lot there that 1:41:28.640 --> 1:41:33.320 just needed to stay protected, to protect my family, not 1:41:33.439 --> 1:41:39.599 my children, but my you know, my extended family. And 1:41:39.600 --> 1:41:43.120 and then yeah, there was other things that I've kind 1:41:43.120 --> 1:41:50.759 of found out about myself, about my personality with things 1:41:50.760 --> 1:41:55.240 that I've that I've struggled with over the years, and 1:41:55.240 --> 1:41:58.680 and you know, things with with the drinking, with the 1:41:58.720 --> 1:42:03.479 eating disorder, with just so many different things that all 1:42:03.560 --> 1:42:06.640 kind of came to light through my therapy. But a 1:42:06.720 --> 1:42:09.680 lot of it I haven't really went into because I'm 1:42:09.720 --> 1:42:13.120 still like processing it personally myself. 1:42:14.640 --> 1:42:16.320 Okay, so you're sober now. 1:42:18.200 --> 1:42:26.720 So alcohol free. I still partake in psychedelics and cannabis. 1:42:27.000 --> 1:42:29.439 Okay, how did you stop drinking? 1:42:32.240 --> 1:42:41.800 I have to credit literature and psilocybin, and really I 1:42:41.880 --> 1:42:47.799 started reading about how Bill Wilson, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, began. 1:42:49.280 --> 1:42:53.040 He actually had a psychedelic experience from the plant belladonna. 1:42:53.520 --> 1:42:57.439 That's how he gave up his drinking. It wasn't religion. 1:42:58.600 --> 1:43:01.080 Some people came in later that that became part of 1:43:01.120 --> 1:43:03.040 it was the religion. But he was in those early 1:43:03.120 --> 1:43:05.240 days of AA when he was curing people. He was 1:43:05.240 --> 1:43:08.840 giving everybody acid and I thought, well, that's interesting. I've 1:43:08.880 --> 1:43:13.720 had some really transformative, you know, mushroom trips prior. So 1:43:13.800 --> 1:43:17.240 I took a mushroom journey on my own and I 1:43:17.360 --> 1:43:19.599 really thought about my drinking, and I thought about all 1:43:19.680 --> 1:43:22.439 of the things that have been holding me back with it. 1:43:22.479 --> 1:43:25.719 There's been so many years I wanted to quit, and 1:43:26.160 --> 1:43:34.080 that mushroom experience, coupled with about three or four different books, 1:43:34.800 --> 1:43:38.720 removed my want. It was I'm not using any willpower, 1:43:38.920 --> 1:43:41.479 I just simply don't want to do it anymore. And 1:43:41.520 --> 1:43:44.840 it was this book by Holly Whittaker that was called 1:43:45.800 --> 1:43:48.720 Quit Like a Woman, the rebellious decision to give up 1:43:48.760 --> 1:43:53.000 alcohol and a culture obsessed with drinking. The other one 1:43:53.240 --> 1:43:57.719 was Alan Carr The Easy Way, and then Anni Grace 1:43:57.760 --> 1:44:01.280 This Naked Mind. And I read those books and I 1:44:01.320 --> 1:44:04.439 have I just lost my desire to drink. 1:44:04.520 --> 1:44:08.400 It's okay, but in addition to the drinking, drinking is 1:44:08.400 --> 1:44:14.200 a lifestyle, going to the bar, hanging out, backstage, a 1:44:14.320 --> 1:44:16.840 million places where people are drinking. So how do you 1:44:16.920 --> 1:44:19.400 cope with that? Or you know you're over the hump 1:44:19.520 --> 1:44:21.360 maybe now if you ever get over the hump, But 1:44:21.400 --> 1:44:22.360 how do you deal with that? 1:44:24.240 --> 1:44:28.480 Yeah, I mean it is, it's so wrapped up, especially 1:44:28.520 --> 1:44:31.320 when you're a musician. It's just it's there all the time. 1:44:31.439 --> 1:44:34.840 People think that you run off it, like it's our 1:44:34.880 --> 1:44:40.840 gasoline or something. And I still go out to bars. 1:44:41.160 --> 1:44:47.240 I still I love to go out and socialize. I 1:44:47.280 --> 1:44:52.400 love to get behind the bar and bartend. Still, I, 1:44:52.479 --> 1:44:54.680 like I said, it's just this weird. It's almost like 1:44:55.760 --> 1:44:58.400 you know, Steve Jobs like whatever, like wearing the same 1:44:58.479 --> 1:45:01.720 thing every day, where it's like I just get up 1:45:01.760 --> 1:45:04.240 and I'm like, I'm not I don't have to moderate 1:45:04.320 --> 1:45:06.479 because I never moderated good. It would always be like, oh, 1:45:06.479 --> 1:45:08.240 I'm just going to have two, and then two would 1:45:08.240 --> 1:45:12.040 be two thousand and I once I just decided, oh 1:45:12.080 --> 1:45:14.040 I'm not going to have it. It's of course, it 1:45:14.080 --> 1:45:17.479 was like awkward for a while, and I didn't tell anyone. 1:45:17.640 --> 1:45:20.200 I always had an Na beer or like a Rocks 1:45:20.200 --> 1:45:24.479 glass that looked like a tequila drink. But yeah, once 1:45:24.560 --> 1:45:27.479 I once I just decided like, oh, I'm not going 1:45:27.520 --> 1:45:30.960 to drink like just I don't even think about it. 1:45:30.960 --> 1:45:36.200 And my husband still drinks, and people on tours still drink, 1:45:36.360 --> 1:45:39.400 and my fam my family members all still drink. I mean, 1:45:39.439 --> 1:45:43.400 my best friend is like a wine connoisseur, and like 1:45:44.280 --> 1:45:46.800 I just have something different in my cup. But I'm 1:45:46.840 --> 1:45:50.200 still there, like having the conversation. And I think in 1:45:50.240 --> 1:45:52.639 the past it would be like I would hide myself 1:45:52.680 --> 1:45:56.000 away and I would not go out, but now it's 1:45:56.040 --> 1:45:58.360 like the opposite. I'm like, okay, I still need to socialize, 1:45:58.400 --> 1:45:59.559 like that's very important for me. 1:46:00.800 --> 1:46:03.479 What about cigarettes, which are another feature of the book. 1:46:05.280 --> 1:46:08.840 I've given up the SIGs too, and I didn't think 1:46:08.920 --> 1:46:10.559 I was going to be able to do that, but 1:46:12.479 --> 1:46:14.680 I held on to him for a while because it 1:46:14.720 --> 1:46:17.360 felt good to just smoke while everybody else was getting drunk. 1:46:18.400 --> 1:46:22.679 But yeah, now it's like they ah, they just they 1:46:22.720 --> 1:46:25.479 make me sick when I smell them. And and again, 1:46:25.560 --> 1:46:27.720 my husband still smoke cigarettes, and I'm like trying to 1:46:27.720 --> 1:46:29.880 get him on the same train as me, but we're 1:46:29.880 --> 1:46:33.280 on our different paths. He's doing his thing, I'm doing mine. 1:46:33.520 --> 1:46:36.680 And the smoking and the drinking, it was like it 1:46:36.720 --> 1:46:39.880 was just hell on my voice, you know. And even 1:46:39.880 --> 1:46:42.360 this the weeds smoking, like I have to be careful. 1:46:42.360 --> 1:46:45.960 I like use a vaporizer or every now and then 1:46:45.960 --> 1:46:48.320 I'll do a joint with a group of people. But 1:46:48.479 --> 1:46:50.960 like if I'm on tour, like I am never getting 1:46:51.040 --> 1:46:54.599 high before I sing, I never get stone and get 1:46:54.640 --> 1:46:58.960 on stage ever ever, ever, I just and I used 1:46:59.000 --> 1:47:01.559 to do like you do a show a tequila to 1:47:01.640 --> 1:47:04.439 get up, you know, get on stage. And now it's 1:47:04.439 --> 1:47:08.479 like we get together and we we pray together in 1:47:08.520 --> 1:47:10.759 a circle. It's insane. 1:47:10.840 --> 1:47:14.160 Wait wait wait wait wait wait you pray together? Are 1:47:14.240 --> 1:47:15.000 you a believer? 1:47:17.680 --> 1:47:23.760 I am not religious, like you know, I don't. I 1:47:23.800 --> 1:47:27.400 don't follow the Bible. I don't follow that kind of strict, 1:47:27.720 --> 1:47:33.560 rigid thing. But I definitely believe in in uh in afterlife. 1:47:33.640 --> 1:47:36.400 I think, I think, I definitely believe in reincarnation. I 1:47:36.400 --> 1:47:38.479 don't know if I'm more of a Buddhist than a Christian, 1:47:38.680 --> 1:47:44.679 but I yeah, I believe. I believe in something for sure. 1:47:44.880 --> 1:47:48.320 I've had too many like close encounters with ghosts and 1:47:48.880 --> 1:47:51.559 weird spooky things in my life to not I have 1:47:51.600 --> 1:47:55.120 a lot of a sleep paralysis and sleep apnea and 1:47:55.160 --> 1:47:59.479 stuff too, and weird. I've been visited by weird things 1:47:59.479 --> 1:48:04.400 in my dream. I definitely believe in in ghosts and spirits, 1:48:04.479 --> 1:48:07.280 and but I think it's you know, you get on 1:48:07.360 --> 1:48:10.080 stage and it's good to just take a moment, get everybody, 1:48:10.080 --> 1:48:14.200 get all close and be together and calm your nerves. 1:48:14.280 --> 1:48:16.360 And you never know when it's going to be the 1:48:16.439 --> 1:48:20.799 last time you step on stage together. And I think, 1:48:20.960 --> 1:48:24.920 you know, with my with my last band, like I 1:48:24.960 --> 1:48:26.400 didn't know that was going to be the last time 1:48:26.439 --> 1:48:28.479 that we were all playing together. Either. We had a 1:48:28.479 --> 1:48:33.360 really long break after that and then everything deteriorated and 1:48:33.360 --> 1:48:36.880 and so yeah, I think it's good to put your 1:48:36.880 --> 1:48:38.920 heads together. You never know what can happen while you're 1:48:39.000 --> 1:48:39.320 up there. 1:48:39.640 --> 1:48:42.520 So you mentioned sleep app need to use the seatpat machine. 1:48:44.200 --> 1:48:48.840 No, I don't, but I My breathing's gotten a lot 1:48:48.880 --> 1:48:53.440 better post seeing doctor Nasiri, who is this vocal specialist. 1:48:54.760 --> 1:48:57.720 But yeah, the sleep paralysis has been something that I've 1:48:57.760 --> 1:49:02.479 been that's happened my whole life, where I will be 1:49:02.520 --> 1:49:06.960 sleeping and get completely frozen. And I've read a lot 1:49:07.000 --> 1:49:11.800 about Also, I have this rare blood type it's called 1:49:11.840 --> 1:49:15.519 a RH negative and most of it like originates from 1:49:15.520 --> 1:49:18.559 the Basque country, and there's people that have the blood 1:49:18.880 --> 1:49:21.880 all have these similarities. And actually the red Lynn had 1:49:21.880 --> 1:49:25.200 this same blood type as well. But there's like a 1:49:25.280 --> 1:49:27.800 through line and you can look up conspiracy theories on 1:49:27.840 --> 1:49:31.880 the internet about alien abductions and this blood type and 1:49:31.960 --> 1:49:36.519 sleep apnea. It's all tied in there, which is very strange. 1:49:36.520 --> 1:49:38.439 But I'm trying to write about it in a book 1:49:38.520 --> 1:49:41.040 that is my second book I've been working on. It's 1:49:41.080 --> 1:49:44.960 called Close Encounters in Country Music and Beyond, and it's 1:49:45.000 --> 1:49:47.639 about just people that I've been lucky enough to meet 1:49:47.680 --> 1:49:52.439 and hang with, Joan Bias, you know, Willie Nelson, Red Olinn, 1:49:53.479 --> 1:49:57.840 but also ties in other worldly experiences. 1:49:58.560 --> 1:50:00.400 Okay, you talk a lot about mush rooms. Have you 1:50:00.479 --> 1:50:01.440 done ayahuasca? 1:50:02.960 --> 1:50:08.639 I have not. I have not. I have done pretty 1:50:08.720 --> 1:50:14.200 much every other psychedel I've done DMT, I've done acids, 1:50:14.479 --> 1:50:19.439 I've done, of course, like I said, mushrooms, but I 1:50:19.439 --> 1:50:21.600 have never done ayahuasca. Now I don't know if I 1:50:21.600 --> 1:50:22.680 want to throw up like that. 1:50:23.920 --> 1:50:26.960 Okay, you have a big decision to make. Will you 1:50:27.040 --> 1:50:30.040 do mushrooms? Try to come to an idea of what 1:50:30.080 --> 1:50:30.559 you should do. 1:50:32.840 --> 1:50:37.439 Yeah. Absolutely. I hadn't taken a big dose in a 1:50:37.520 --> 1:50:41.240 very long time, and just a few weeks ago I 1:50:41.320 --> 1:50:45.680 was feeling really stuck with a lot of things personally professionally, 1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:50.880 and my kids went to the grandparents for the evening, 1:50:50.920 --> 1:50:52.439 and my husband went out to the bar and I 1:50:52.479 --> 1:50:55.200 sat outside and I ate a whole bunch of mushrooms 1:50:55.240 --> 1:51:00.160 and just put on some records. And I like to 1:51:00.160 --> 1:51:04.040 listen to the Timothy Leary Guided Trip on YouTube as well. 1:51:04.840 --> 1:51:06.479 And I always feel like I come out of it 1:51:06.560 --> 1:51:12.120 with yeah, just with insight. And I think it's so 1:51:12.240 --> 1:51:14.360 easy for our brains just to get stuck in the 1:51:14.400 --> 1:51:17.800 same way of thinking. And it's so interesting to me 1:51:17.960 --> 1:51:22.960 that mushrooms create new neural pathways. You know, alcohol shuts 1:51:22.960 --> 1:51:25.719 it all off, It just blunts it. But I'm trying 1:51:25.760 --> 1:51:28.080 to open things up here after years of trying to 1:51:28.080 --> 1:51:28.840 shut it all off. 1:51:29.479 --> 1:51:32.959 Okay. Also, in your book, how about you encounter your husband? 1:51:33.560 --> 1:51:36.320 You just see him and you go, he's the one. 1:51:37.360 --> 1:51:39.559 What was it about him? It's not like you were 1:51:39.560 --> 1:51:42.519 in experienced you you know, it's not like you were 1:51:42.520 --> 1:51:45.400 wet behind the years you've been around, and you just 1:51:45.439 --> 1:51:47.200 see him in a party, go he's the one. 1:51:49.360 --> 1:51:51.479 I have no idea what drew me to him, but 1:51:52.160 --> 1:51:55.320 I think it was he was playing bass, and I 1:51:55.320 --> 1:51:57.719 feel like bass players have always been the most statable. 1:52:00.520 --> 1:52:04.000 He was he looked like the saddest guy at the 1:52:04.040 --> 1:52:08.519 party that was there, and I don't know, I just 1:52:08.560 --> 1:52:12.840 immediately felt drawn to him. I I don't know what 1:52:12.880 --> 1:52:15.759 it is. And later he started playing me some songs 1:52:15.960 --> 1:52:19.320 and I loved the songs that he had written. But 1:52:20.320 --> 1:52:22.599 it's just it was the strangest thing. I never said 1:52:22.640 --> 1:52:25.720 stuff like that. I never I never dreamed that I 1:52:25.760 --> 1:52:27.880 would meet the person I was going to stay with 1:52:28.040 --> 1:52:31.000 at twenty and here and here I am forty two. 1:52:31.040 --> 1:52:34.320 We've been together for that long. But it was just 1:52:34.360 --> 1:52:36.639 something just drew me towards him. 1:52:37.280 --> 1:52:39.280 And why are bass players the most datable? 1:52:41.680 --> 1:52:46.320 You know, Guitar players are so full of themselves, singers 1:52:46.400 --> 1:52:51.840 lead singers, like, we're not datable, Definitely not drummers. I 1:52:51.840 --> 1:52:54.400 don't know. Bass players, they're just like they're they're so 1:52:54.560 --> 1:52:57.679 quietly important. And that's like, it's kind of the role 1:52:57.720 --> 1:53:01.719 that Jeremy has like played in my career. He even 1:53:01.800 --> 1:53:05.960 still he's one of the most prolific writers. He's had 1:53:06.160 --> 1:53:08.360 a career in his own right too. He put out 1:53:08.360 --> 1:53:11.720 three albums on Anti Records and went and opened a 1:53:11.760 --> 1:53:15.480 bunch of shows for Mike Campbell kind of before the pandemic. 1:53:15.560 --> 1:53:19.920 But he's been there to put the work into my 1:53:20.040 --> 1:53:22.920 thing and to support me. I mean, I think so 1:53:22.960 --> 1:53:26.000 many times people say, like behind every good man is 1:53:26.040 --> 1:53:29.280 an even better woman, but in this case, like it's 1:53:29.360 --> 1:53:33.200 kind of the opposite, because he's he's just if I 1:53:33.280 --> 1:53:35.720 was a garden like, I wouldn't be growing if it 1:53:35.800 --> 1:53:37.200 wasn't for him. 1:53:37.280 --> 1:53:40.280 Also a really left field thing which you reference, but 1:53:40.320 --> 1:53:45.920 it's also in the book What's up with playing drums? 1:53:46.160 --> 1:53:50.280 I'm a drummer. I'm a drummer. I have never really 1:53:50.320 --> 1:53:58.280 had any professional drum lessons. I just I got this 1:53:58.400 --> 1:54:03.680 drum kit. I actually bought it for Jeremy. I had 1:54:03.680 --> 1:54:05.519 been in a car accident and I got a settlement, 1:54:05.960 --> 1:54:08.240 and instead of taking the money to do therapy, I 1:54:08.280 --> 1:54:10.519 went and bought a Tama drum kit that was like 1:54:10.560 --> 1:54:14.240 the Dave Girl like drum kit with the huge bass drum. 1:54:14.240 --> 1:54:17.800 And I got at home and Jeremy really couldn't play 1:54:17.840 --> 1:54:20.280 the drums very well, but I sat behind it. He 1:54:20.360 --> 1:54:22.479 had some of his dude friends over for a band 1:54:22.520 --> 1:54:25.200 practice and I started. I ended up being their drummer 1:54:25.240 --> 1:54:30.080 for a while. I don't know if it's just my experience. 1:54:30.200 --> 1:54:32.640 Like tap dancing, I was a tap dancer for a 1:54:32.640 --> 1:54:35.560 long time and you have to move your feet in 1:54:35.600 --> 1:54:39.880 your arms at different times. And I love playing drums. 1:54:39.920 --> 1:54:43.040 I just sat in a keep on Rocking in the 1:54:43.040 --> 1:54:48.000 Free World with Lucas Neilson and Steve Steven Wilson Junior 1:54:49.080 --> 1:54:50.400 at Newport and it was a lot of fun. 1:54:51.880 --> 1:54:55.680 Okay, you mentioned dudes, and you also mentioned in the 1:54:55.680 --> 1:54:58.240 books Good to Have a Girlfriend. Are you more of 1:54:58.240 --> 1:55:01.800 a girly girl? Are you more like a guy girl? 1:55:03.520 --> 1:55:06.720 I hate to admit it, but yeah, I feel like 1:55:06.840 --> 1:55:12.160 I am usually one of the guys. I I definitely 1:55:12.200 --> 1:55:15.160 have a close group of girlfriends that I love to 1:55:15.200 --> 1:55:18.520 get together with and you know, take girls trips. But 1:55:18.560 --> 1:55:23.520 the majority of my life is spent hanging out with 1:55:23.880 --> 1:55:29.400 more more dudes, and I love to hike and fish 1:55:29.720 --> 1:55:34.400 and do outdoorsy type things. I'm probably more of a 1:55:34.400 --> 1:55:37.560 tomboy than like my husband is. Like I like to camp, 1:55:37.880 --> 1:55:40.640 I like to mow the lawn, and like I take 1:55:40.680 --> 1:55:44.160 out the garbage and he goes to the grocery store 1:55:44.200 --> 1:55:52.000 and cooks the meals. Like our house is very reverse roles. 1:55:55.680 --> 1:55:59.560 Okay, your husband thinks he can't have children, you get pregnant, 1:56:00.840 --> 1:56:03.680 You're not even on the way up, you're kind of nowhere. 1:56:04.360 --> 1:56:05.600 What goes through your head? 1:56:07.360 --> 1:56:11.040 Oh, I mean it was the worst timing. It was. 1:56:12.280 --> 1:56:14.520 I had just kind of thought like, Okay, maybe we 1:56:14.520 --> 1:56:19.360 should just have dogs and travel Europe and not have 1:56:19.440 --> 1:56:25.120 any children because we were so financially unstable. I mean, 1:56:25.920 --> 1:56:29.280 we were just barely eking by. Like I said, the 1:56:29.320 --> 1:56:33.720 water was always being shut off, the electricity. We just 1:56:34.680 --> 1:56:41.280 we were completely irresponsible. But we somehow have raised two 1:56:41.360 --> 1:56:46.240 incredible kids. And they came along right at a time. 1:56:46.520 --> 1:56:49.280 I really think that we needed them because as hard 1:56:49.280 --> 1:56:53.280 as we've partied, Like my son Judah, he's fifteen now, 1:56:54.800 --> 1:56:58.840 he really he kept us in line. Even when we 1:56:58.840 --> 1:57:00.400 weren't in line. It would be like one of us 1:57:00.400 --> 1:57:03.440 would always make sure that we were going to be 1:57:03.480 --> 1:57:09.800 clear headed and be attentive for him, because it's I mean, 1:57:09.840 --> 1:57:14.440 having kids, it just changes everything. It's wild. So probably 1:57:14.480 --> 1:57:16.840 it saved us in a lot of ways. 1:57:17.760 --> 1:57:19.760 Okay, whats your parenting style? 1:57:21.800 --> 1:57:27.440 Parenting style, Well, we don't like screens in our house. 1:57:27.800 --> 1:57:31.720 We're very strict on the screens. We are, but we're like, 1:57:32.960 --> 1:57:34.880 do what you want. Other than that, like I love 1:57:34.960 --> 1:57:38.560 to let my kids climb trees and be outside and 1:57:38.600 --> 1:57:43.880 get messy, and I think sometimes I struggle with the 1:57:46.360 --> 1:57:49.720 being like instead of being like the mom. Sometimes I 1:57:49.840 --> 1:57:52.200 come back from tour and I'm like the cool aunt 1:57:52.400 --> 1:57:55.280 to my own children, which is really tough. You know. 1:57:55.360 --> 1:57:58.120 I like bring them a toy and I spoil them 1:57:58.160 --> 1:57:59.600 for a few days, and then I have to go 1:57:59.640 --> 1:58:02.600 back out again. And so I think my husband has 1:58:02.640 --> 1:58:06.800 to be the bad cop more. And my mother, she's 1:58:07.080 --> 1:58:11.320 helping us raise these kids, and I really couldn't do 1:58:11.360 --> 1:58:15.400 it without her. She's you know, Grandma's here all the time. 1:58:15.760 --> 1:58:19.440 Okay, your kid wants to drop out of college to 1:58:19.520 --> 1:58:23.360 do god knows what, drinking and drugging. You say, man, 1:58:23.440 --> 1:58:26.720 that's what I did. Go for it. Well, you say, no, no, no, 1:58:26.800 --> 1:58:27.960 that's not the way to do it. 1:58:30.000 --> 1:58:35.040 No. I have been very transparent about substances with my 1:58:35.360 --> 1:58:39.800 kid and even with following a career in music, because 1:58:40.000 --> 1:58:43.760 it is such a tough way of life, and I 1:58:43.800 --> 1:58:46.480 don't know that I would wish this upon anybody unless 1:58:46.480 --> 1:58:48.520 they just were so sick in the head to do it. 1:58:50.760 --> 1:58:54.480 And my son, actually, he came home first day at 1:58:54.560 --> 1:58:59.960 high school the other day, and he's been very into 1:59:00.200 --> 1:59:04.240 soccer lately. That's been kind of his passion. But he 1:59:04.240 --> 1:59:07.840 he's played drums, he's played piano, he's played guitar and 1:59:07.920 --> 1:59:10.840 had lessons in the past. But he came home first 1:59:10.920 --> 1:59:14.200 day at high school. He joined a band. He joined 1:59:14.200 --> 1:59:16.680 a rock band. He's playing keys and he sits down. 1:59:16.760 --> 1:59:20.800 He starts playing knocking on Heaven's Door, and I'm like, man, Okay, 1:59:20.960 --> 1:59:22.800 maybe we should have put you in public school a 1:59:22.840 --> 1:59:25.920 long time ago. He's been at these private schools and 1:59:26.440 --> 1:59:29.280 it's crazy, and you know, me and my husband are like, wow, 1:59:29.560 --> 1:59:32.160 like maybe there's hope for him yet. But I also 1:59:32.240 --> 1:59:33.800 am like part of me just wants them to be 1:59:33.920 --> 1:59:39.000 like an you know, have just like a straight normal job, 1:59:39.360 --> 1:59:42.600 because it is. It's just such a hard way of life. 1:59:42.720 --> 1:59:43.840 It really it is. 1:59:44.000 --> 1:59:46.760 So you're saying, it's like family ties. You're the hippie 1:59:46.800 --> 1:59:47.920 and your kid is the nerd. 1:59:49.120 --> 1:59:55.480 Yeah, absolutely, I think you know he's he's got these 1:59:55.520 --> 1:59:58.920 weird hippie parents. He's always like, what's up with the 1:59:58.960 --> 2:00:02.320 furniture in this house? Everything's old, and you know he's 2:00:03.800 --> 2:00:07.760 he definitely it's like he doesn't think we're not cool, 2:00:07.960 --> 2:00:11.680 but you've got to try to rebel against your parents. 2:00:11.680 --> 2:00:14.680 Who are like the most rebellious. He's it's your only 2:00:14.800 --> 2:00:16.920 option is to be like straight laced. 2:00:18.160 --> 2:00:20.280 And how did you decide to put him in public school? 2:00:21.920 --> 2:00:26.120 He made that decision. He just visited the school he 2:00:26.160 --> 2:00:32.160 wanted to go, and, like I said, one of the extracurriculars, 2:00:32.200 --> 2:00:35.760 you can join a rock band. And so it's it's 2:00:35.800 --> 2:00:38.640 been kind of crazy. We've all been sitting around jamming 2:00:38.720 --> 2:00:40.440 on knocking on Heaven's door all week. 2:00:43.080 --> 2:00:45.879 Okay, how did you and your family cope during COVID 2:00:45.920 --> 2:00:46.600 in lockdown? 2:00:49.160 --> 2:00:55.920 We could have coped better. We Yeah, we were very 2:00:55.920 --> 2:00:59.160 isolated at the beginning of it. My husband actually had COVID. 2:00:59.320 --> 2:01:04.360 He got it in York and he was just in 2:01:04.440 --> 2:01:09.360 such a bad place. He it took a month to 2:01:09.440 --> 2:01:13.560 feel better, and we had a new baby at home, 2:01:14.040 --> 2:01:19.560 and I got almost like over the top, kind of 2:01:19.600 --> 2:01:22.800 like germophobe, where it took me a really long time 2:01:22.840 --> 2:01:25.000 to go back out in public and want to eat 2:01:25.080 --> 2:01:29.400 at restaurants and want to see people. And it was 2:01:29.400 --> 2:01:31.720 funny because my husband was the one who got COVID 2:01:31.760 --> 2:01:34.440 and he was so sick with it, and I never 2:01:34.480 --> 2:01:37.160 felt sick anytime I tested positive for it. I was 2:01:37.200 --> 2:01:42.440 still super healthy, but I just it affected me, it 2:01:42.480 --> 2:01:46.520 affected the kids. We just we stayed shut in, we 2:01:46.560 --> 2:01:48.720 really did. But we listened to a lot of music 2:01:48.880 --> 2:01:52.960 and we bonded with each other and we had lots 2:01:52.960 --> 2:01:55.160 of hangs over at the house with lots of people 2:01:55.240 --> 2:01:58.760 just coming to see us and sit outside and swim 2:01:58.800 --> 2:02:02.160 in the pool. And yeah, it was it was a 2:02:02.160 --> 2:02:06.200 good time. I think I fell back in love with 2:02:06.200 --> 2:02:09.360 with listening to music during that time. I really I 2:02:09.440 --> 2:02:10.320 listened again. 2:02:11.440 --> 2:02:13.160 And how did you cope financially? 2:02:15.320 --> 2:02:20.360 I had a really great savings that that was there, 2:02:20.520 --> 2:02:24.120 and you know, there were little things that we did, 2:02:24.760 --> 2:02:28.280 like I did a podcast with sons, and you know, 2:02:28.400 --> 2:02:32.200 there were things that that came that I mean I have. 2:02:32.480 --> 2:02:35.120 I had a weed deal with Willie Nelson's weed company, 2:02:35.320 --> 2:02:38.040 and you know, I'm trying to diversify because we know 2:02:38.240 --> 2:02:44.320 that the money that there once was for people who 2:02:44.320 --> 2:02:47.040 wrote their own songs is just not what it used 2:02:47.080 --> 2:02:47.240 to be. 2:02:48.680 --> 2:02:53.000 Okay, trying to think of a way to ask this, 2:02:53.120 --> 2:02:56.520 I can get an honesty answer. You have the male musicians, 2:02:57.240 --> 2:03:00.680 they have a bunch of kids in their never home. Okay, 2:03:01.960 --> 2:03:05.920 many get divorced, re married, have more kids, whatever. That's 2:03:05.960 --> 2:03:08.840 not exactly what I'm asking, but I have to put 2:03:08.880 --> 2:03:12.040 that in the mix. I'm gonna ask you point Blake, 2:03:12.200 --> 2:03:14.080 you won't give me an honesty answer, and then I'll spay. 2:03:14.800 --> 2:03:18.400 Is music number one? Is it more important to do 2:03:18.560 --> 2:03:21.920 your music in your career than your relationship and then 2:03:21.960 --> 2:03:25.000 your kids. We're not taking the kids out of the picture, 2:03:25.320 --> 2:03:27.880 we're not taking the husband out of the picture. But 2:03:28.000 --> 2:03:30.480 if something happened where they say no, Margo, you know 2:03:30.600 --> 2:03:33.120 this is done because you have to be here for 2:03:33.240 --> 2:03:36.320 the kids in the and the husband. I can't think 2:03:36.360 --> 2:03:39.600 of a situation, but let's say there's no doubt you're 2:03:39.600 --> 2:03:40.320 gonna say what. 2:03:43.520 --> 2:03:48.240 I think. I would obviously pick my family and my 2:03:48.360 --> 2:03:52.360 children any day of the week, but I don't think 2:03:52.400 --> 2:03:55.200 that the mother that they would be left with would 2:03:55.200 --> 2:03:59.760 be much of a mother. I think music is what 2:03:59.800 --> 2:04:05.760 makes me tick. And during COVID, I was so depressed. 2:04:06.200 --> 2:04:11.360 Was I was purposeless, I was driftless. I was drinking 2:04:11.760 --> 2:04:14.880 so much because I had nothing to look forward to. 2:04:15.120 --> 2:04:16.960 I used to do the show and then get drunk, 2:04:17.120 --> 2:04:18.680 but there was no show, so it was like I 2:04:18.760 --> 2:04:21.800 might as well just be drunk all the time. So 2:04:22.000 --> 2:04:24.240 I think, yeah, the answer would be that I would 2:04:24.240 --> 2:04:27.440 be with my children. But I don't know what kind 2:04:27.520 --> 2:04:30.760 of human I would be at all. And I try 2:04:30.800 --> 2:04:33.440 to remind myself of that because sometimes I just get 2:04:34.400 --> 2:04:40.720 so overwhelmed and I feel like like I'm half assing 2:04:40.720 --> 2:04:43.280 my way through everything, you know, like, oh, there's not 2:04:43.400 --> 2:04:45.160 enough time for my marriage, there's not enough time for 2:04:45.200 --> 2:04:52.360 my kids, there's not enough time for my music. But yeah, 2:04:52.400 --> 2:04:56.240 I know that my kids wouldn't even want that for me. 2:04:56.400 --> 2:04:59.560 They know, they know that I'm most happy when I'm 2:05:00.400 --> 2:05:01.440 able to do what I love. 2:05:03.520 --> 2:05:06.160 Okay, you know you talk about the new management company 2:05:06.280 --> 2:05:09.320 with corn Capsule red Light, and you're saying, I want 2:05:09.320 --> 2:05:12.320 to do movies. I want to do music for movies. 2:05:12.360 --> 2:05:16.320 I want to write books. But in reality, first and foremost, 2:05:16.320 --> 2:05:19.960 you're a singer songwriter. Let's just use that appellation. Let's 2:05:20.000 --> 2:05:25.560 not get caught up in names. Okay. We established at 2:05:25.600 --> 2:05:31.080 the beginning that the landscape is changing. What do you want? 2:05:31.400 --> 2:05:34.560 What do you want to happen? You have any fear 2:05:35.120 --> 2:05:36.240 that it'll slip away? 2:05:39.040 --> 2:05:43.400 Just my career in general, Yeah, I think if you 2:05:43.480 --> 2:05:48.120 don't keep working hard at absolutely will And I did 2:05:48.200 --> 2:05:52.920 take off a lot of time this past year, I 2:05:52.960 --> 2:05:55.440 took off more time than I've taken off in a decade, 2:05:56.280 --> 2:05:59.440 and I needed it. I needed to rebuild my bands, 2:06:00.280 --> 2:06:08.640 to rebuild my business. But I think that I don't 2:06:08.640 --> 2:06:11.960 think I would ever let my career slip away because 2:06:12.040 --> 2:06:18.800 I just I'm too driven, I'm too hungry. I am. 2:06:20.800 --> 2:06:26.440 I know that I can continue to find inspiration and 2:06:26.520 --> 2:06:29.480 reinvent myself and get out there and play live shows. 2:06:29.560 --> 2:06:33.520 I mean, I've been so lucky to get to meet 2:06:33.560 --> 2:06:35.720 so many of my heroes and get to really like, 2:06:38.000 --> 2:06:40.720 I don't know, you know, pick their brain for advice. 2:06:40.840 --> 2:06:43.760 And I know that everybody goes through these like dips 2:06:43.840 --> 2:06:46.360 in their career as well, you know, like if you 2:06:46.480 --> 2:06:48.720 have if you're a legacy artist and you have a 2:06:48.760 --> 2:06:55.360 career that spans like decades, and I think, I don't know, 2:06:55.640 --> 2:06:57.840 I'm just I'm really trying to remain true to my 2:06:57.960 --> 2:07:00.920 art and not get caught up like doing things that 2:07:02.160 --> 2:07:04.800 feel like, oh, you're doing this to like stay young 2:07:04.960 --> 2:07:08.120 or stay hip, whether it's the TikTok dances or like, 2:07:08.840 --> 2:07:11.400 you know, all the trends and things that people try. 2:07:11.640 --> 2:07:19.200 I just, yeah, it's just not me. But yeah, I 2:07:19.240 --> 2:07:20.920 don't know, I don't know if that answers a question 2:07:21.880 --> 2:07:22.240 you did. 2:07:22.360 --> 2:07:25.480 Okay. Back in the eighties and the heyday of MTV, 2:07:25.640 --> 2:07:29.680 the rock bands would talk about world domination and literally 2:07:29.720 --> 2:07:32.480 the police started that their father was in the CIA. 2:07:32.680 --> 2:07:35.200 They toured all these crazy places where no one had 2:07:35.200 --> 2:07:39.160 ever toured before. Conversely, no one gets more pressed than 2:07:39.280 --> 2:07:43.640 Taylor's Swift. And I would say, other than her fans, 2:07:43.680 --> 2:07:46.280 the average person can't even sing two songs of hers 2:07:46.800 --> 2:07:48.920 name them. I only use her. She wrote a song 2:07:48.920 --> 2:07:50.520 about me. I don't want to get into Taylor Swift. 2:07:50.560 --> 2:07:52.960 I only use her because you like at the top 2:07:53.000 --> 2:07:56.000 of the pyramid, right. I'm going to tell one other 2:07:56.120 --> 2:07:59.160 story that is kind of the same thing. This is 2:07:59.200 --> 2:08:02.000 twenty years ago. Brian Adams was on tour with def 2:08:02.120 --> 2:08:06.080 Leppard in baseball stadiums, minor league ballparks, and they would 2:08:06.120 --> 2:08:09.880 flip headliners and as you know, an experienced rude person, 2:08:10.240 --> 2:08:12.840 you'd rather go on when it's dark. And on this 2:08:12.920 --> 2:08:17.800 particular day, Brian Adams was playing and it was still 2:08:17.880 --> 2:08:20.120 light out. I'm standing on the side of the stage. 2:08:20.240 --> 2:08:22.680 He literally takes up the set list and looks at 2:08:22.680 --> 2:08:25.120 the rest of the band, rips it in half and 2:08:25.160 --> 2:08:28.600 you literally see him work hard to win over the audience, 2:08:28.600 --> 2:08:32.560 which he does. So those are it's a two part question, 2:08:32.680 --> 2:08:37.600 to what degree deep inside do you still want world domination? 2:08:38.080 --> 2:08:40.920 And do you believe if they put someone in front 2:08:40.960 --> 2:08:44.760 of you you can close them. 2:08:45.000 --> 2:08:50.600 I have definitely had to win over fans that I'm 2:08:50.600 --> 2:08:53.960 walking out there and I'm knowing they don't like me. 2:08:54.400 --> 2:08:56.400 Not only do they not know who I am, Oh, 2:08:56.440 --> 2:08:59.480 they do know me, and they probably don't like me. 2:09:00.920 --> 2:09:04.840 I I still I think I put on a better 2:09:04.920 --> 2:09:10.360 show when I feel like the audience is unaware of 2:09:10.360 --> 2:09:15.680 who I am or you know, I I will, I 2:09:15.760 --> 2:09:19.520 will work the stage and I will and I will 2:09:19.520 --> 2:09:24.800 win them over. I really will. I've I've opened a 2:09:24.800 --> 2:09:27.200 lot of shows. I have been the person playing when 2:09:27.240 --> 2:09:33.320 the sun's still up, and uh, yeah, that's just it's 2:09:33.400 --> 2:09:37.480 just in my it's just in my dna. I I 2:09:37.520 --> 2:09:43.800 feel like I don't really I don't really care if 2:09:43.840 --> 2:09:45.760 I get to the point of being like, oh, I'm 2:09:45.800 --> 2:09:50.120 selling stadiums or you know, that's that's like kind of 2:09:50.160 --> 2:09:52.480 never been my m O. And I think when you 2:09:52.520 --> 2:09:55.560 when you look at artists like even like Bob Dylan 2:09:55.680 --> 2:09:57.600 or something like look at the effect that he's had. 2:09:58.080 --> 2:10:01.560 Does it matter what size like rooms he's playing, No, 2:10:01.720 --> 2:10:05.680 he's He's a fucking legend and he he followed his 2:10:06.200 --> 2:10:11.920 muse to the very end. I think anything that is 2:10:12.360 --> 2:10:15.760 successful enough to be in a giant stadium is like, 2:10:16.120 --> 2:10:18.520 there's probably a reason because it's probably a little bit 2:10:18.520 --> 2:10:23.360 more generic and there's and there's nothing wrong with that. 2:10:23.400 --> 2:10:25.800 There's a place for that. That's just not my place. 2:10:26.120 --> 2:10:30.600 My place is like, you know, I don't know, hopefully 2:10:30.680 --> 2:10:35.520 somebody somewhere more like in the the Joan Biez or 2:10:35.560 --> 2:10:39.880 like the Bonnie Right kind of you know. It's like, 2:10:39.960 --> 2:10:43.200 I'm dedicated to the craft, to the music. I never 2:10:43.320 --> 2:10:48.240 want anything to to sell out in a way. That's 2:10:48.400 --> 2:10:52.520 just I'm doing this because it will get me x 2:10:52.560 --> 2:10:53.280 amount of fans. 2:10:53.480 --> 2:10:58.160 Okay, talk about Sturgiel Simpson, you talk about Alabama shikestaying 2:10:58.280 --> 2:11:01.880 at your house, opening for Jason in Bell. You're a 2:11:01.880 --> 2:11:05.200 student of the game you talk about and a student 2:11:05.240 --> 2:11:07.920 of the music, Bob Dylan, etcetera. What do you think 2:11:07.960 --> 2:11:09.040 about today's music. 2:11:12.320 --> 2:11:19.160 I think there's there's some good stuff out there if 2:11:19.160 --> 2:11:24.120 you know where to look. But I also think there's 2:11:24.160 --> 2:11:28.800 a lot of shit. I think there's, like I said, 2:11:28.800 --> 2:11:34.800 there's a lot of things being a kind of hoisted 2:11:34.920 --> 2:11:38.040 up as being like real or or down to earth 2:11:38.200 --> 2:11:40.720 or like, oh, this is the authentic thing, and like 2:11:43.120 --> 2:11:45.400 I don't always see it. And I don't want to 2:11:45.680 --> 2:11:50.240 name names or pick any fights, but I just there's 2:11:50.320 --> 2:11:55.400 a lot of midship that is, you know, because it's popular, 2:11:57.120 --> 2:12:02.000 people think that it's the best thing ever. But popularity 2:12:02.200 --> 2:12:05.400 doesn't equal quality, And I think you can just go 2:12:05.560 --> 2:12:10.400 to like case in point, McDonald sells the most burgers, 2:12:10.440 --> 2:12:11.560 but it's not the best burger. 2:12:12.880 --> 2:12:14.040 Who is the best burger? 2:12:15.480 --> 2:12:21.080 Who is the best burger? Like today's Yeah, all right, 2:12:21.120 --> 2:12:21.640 eat man? 2:12:21.800 --> 2:12:25.280 I just well, do you maybe I don't need burgers. 2:12:26.720 --> 2:12:30.200 Yeah, I eat impossible burgers. I eat meat still every 2:12:30.280 --> 2:12:34.640 now and then. I think Tyler Childers is uh phenomenal. 2:12:34.800 --> 2:12:41.520 I think he's an artist who is really reaching, stretching, growing, 2:12:43.320 --> 2:12:48.840 but remaining true to himself. I think, you know, as 2:12:48.840 --> 2:12:51.840 far as new stuff goes, there's there's a band called 2:12:51.880 --> 2:12:55.200 Rattlesnake Milk that I'm really stoked on. I'm really hyped on. 2:12:55.240 --> 2:12:57.640 They're going to open for me at my show at 2:12:57.640 --> 2:13:03.520 the Ryman they're phenomenal. There's definitely a lot of like 2:13:03.840 --> 2:13:09.840 incredible young virtuoso talents like I think Billy Strings, you 2:13:09.880 --> 2:13:14.680 know is and Molly Tuttle, They're they're phenomenal players. Sierra 2:13:14.760 --> 2:13:20.000 Ferrell is like a really wonderful singer. There's a lot 2:13:20.040 --> 2:13:25.040 of people out there that are that are making great records. 2:13:25.120 --> 2:13:28.240 And but like I said, there's also a lot of 2:13:28.320 --> 2:13:35.280 really midship that just gets Tod did as being as 2:13:35.320 --> 2:13:37.240 being more real than it is. 2:13:40.200 --> 2:13:44.200 Okay, Finally, in your book, you go on about you 2:13:44.240 --> 2:13:48.040 and your husband Jeremy getting into a kinksphase. What are 2:13:48.120 --> 2:13:49.920 your favorite Kink songs? 2:13:50.960 --> 2:13:57.840 M Strangers? That's one of my favorites This Time Tomorrow, 2:14:02.280 --> 2:14:04.600 I mean, of course, like Sunny Afternoon was one of 2:14:04.680 --> 2:14:07.840 the first songs that I learned how to play. I 2:14:07.880 --> 2:14:12.080 love I Need to write Ray and Dave Davies both 2:14:12.160 --> 2:14:15.840 like a letter and just thank them for the music. 2:14:17.000 --> 2:14:23.640 All of Muswell Hillbillies, Lola Versus power Man. Yeah, Strangers though, 2:14:23.680 --> 2:14:26.440 that's like the song Strangers in This Time Tomorrow. Those 2:14:26.600 --> 2:14:30.800 two songs like they just they got punched me in 2:14:30.920 --> 2:14:32.360 a really great way. 2:14:33.960 --> 2:14:36.080 My favorite do you know Preservation Act too? 2:14:37.800 --> 2:14:38.520 Yeah? 2:14:38.600 --> 2:14:41.720 Do you know, money talks, funny talks. 2:14:41.800 --> 2:14:42.640 I need to look that one. 2:14:42.680 --> 2:14:44.920 Oh yeah, show me a man who can live without bread, 2:14:44.960 --> 2:14:47.200 and I'll show you a man who's a liar in debt. 2:14:47.720 --> 2:14:50.880 There's no man alive you can't live without who won't 2:14:50.880 --> 2:14:53.480 sell for a price. Money talks, and we're the living proof. 2:14:54.640 --> 2:14:56.480 Ooh, that's beautiful. 2:14:56.520 --> 2:14:59.440 I'll leave you with that. Margo, thanks so much for 2:14:59.520 --> 2:15:02.000 taking the time to talk with me and my audience. 2:15:02.800 --> 2:15:06.440 Absolutely, we've been reading your newsletter for a very long time. 2:15:06.560 --> 2:15:08.200 It's a pleasure to speak with you. 2:15:08.760 --> 2:15:12.200 Cool. Here I am till next time. This is Bob 2:15:12.320 --> 2:15:12.880 left Sis