Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, We're from TikTok from America.
Speaker 3: What's up, new friends, Thanks for letting us across the
Speaker 3: party you're at Little red Book.
Speaker 1: I would like to welcome all my fellow Americans to
Speaker 1: shaohong Shu.
Speaker 4: Last week, as the US ban on TikTok drew closer,
Speaker 4: it's one hundred and seventy million American users. We're forced
Speaker 4: to face the fact that they might be kicked off
Speaker 4: their favorite social media app, and in a surprising turn
Speaker 4: of events, they began flocking to another Chinese social media platform,
Speaker 4: shao hong Shu, also known as Red Note. Hiaoung Shu's
Speaker 4: nice to meet you. Thanks for taking me me and
Speaker 4: oh my friends, I hope we don't break you. These
Speaker 4: newcomers have come up with a name for themselves. We're
Speaker 4: all TikTok refugee.
Speaker 3: TikTok refugee here, Hello, my fellow Tektok refugees.
Speaker 4: For those who aren't familiar, Shao Hoangshu looks a lot
Speaker 4: like Instagram, and the app is hosting almost unheard of
Speaker 4: interactions between Chinese and American medicines.
Speaker 1: This is probably the biggest public to public social exchange
Speaker 1: between Chinese and Americans since the two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: Beijing Olympics.
Speaker 4: Gal Yuan is a Bloomberg technology reporter based in Singapore.
Speaker 1: Before this, Saga and Shahunshu, we are not seeing too
Speaker 1: many opportunities for people from China and the US to
Speaker 1: directly communicate to each other. The only way for people
Speaker 1: inside China is to use VPN to get across the
Speaker 1: Great Firewall so that they can browse Google, Instagram, or Facebook,
Speaker 1: and this technology is only reserved to the tech savvy.
Speaker 4: China's Internet Firewall is designed to restrict Chinese citizens' access
Speaker 4: to any content that the government deems sensitive, and foreign
Speaker 4: websites like Google and Facebook are blocked in mainland China.
Speaker 4: The controls had effectively prevented Chinese medicines from having direct
Speaker 4: information exchanged with the outside world, but now the threat
Speaker 4: of a ban on TikTok has changed all that. So
Speaker 4: many Americans are interacting with Chinese users on Showanngshu, and
Speaker 4: it became the most downloaded free app on iOS in
Speaker 4: the US.
Speaker 1: It's the first time that people from China and the
Speaker 1: people from the US are having a chance to actually
Speaker 1: talk online to each other without any barriers. It's something
Speaker 1: that would excite people from China and app belief also
Speaker 1: from the US.
Speaker 4: This surge of TikTok exiles might, on the face of it,
Speaker 4: look like a good thing for Shaohong Sshu. More users
Speaker 4: mean more eyeballs and traffic for the company, but all
Speaker 4: those good things come with a high degree of risk
Speaker 4: for the Chinese app.
Speaker 1: They all need to manage the contents on the app,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be tough because they have never
Speaker 1: experienced this surge of non Chinese speaking posts. If the
Speaker 1: government is see is the contents on Shahoungshu are not
Speaker 1: being properly managed, they would do something. You don't want
Speaker 1: the government to step in and say, hey, you have
Speaker 1: to delete something that is not fitting the Chinese law.
Speaker 4: Welcome to The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha.
Speaker 4: Every week we take you inside some of the world's
Speaker 4: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and
Speaker 4: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show,
Speaker 4: the American TikTok users jumping ship for another Chinese app.
Speaker 4: What does this mean for shao hung Shu and with
Speaker 4: you as President Donald Trump now delaying the TikTok ban,
Speaker 4: will they stay for good? In the past week, it's
Speaker 4: estimated that shaw wang Sshu has drawn millions of users
Speaker 4: ahead of the ban on TikTok. Of them are from
Speaker 4: the US, and we chatted with one of them.
Speaker 2: I am Brecking Newman. I am thirty one years old,
Speaker 2: and I am currently a realtor in the state of Mississippi.
Speaker 2: I'm in the city golf Port Reckon.
Speaker 4: How long have you been using TikTok?
Speaker 2: Probably like five or six years. I just kind of
Speaker 2: go on there and put content every now and then,
Speaker 2: and I've posted a couple videos of like home tours.
Speaker 2: There was a rental that my wife and I bought
Speaker 2: that was like completely destroyed, so I did like a
Speaker 2: before and after video on there, but pretty much just
Speaker 2: like family stuff with me, my daughter, my wife, my dogs.
Speaker 4: Oh nice. So when did you actually join Shaohunkshoe.
Speaker 2: I joined Shaohunkshu like it was it's been like forty
Speaker 2: eight hours. Probably it's only been like two days. I
Speaker 2: just was scrolling through TikTok and they were like, hey, everybody,
Speaker 2: go check out red Note and what brought you there
Speaker 2: to be honest, it was just the fact that it
Speaker 2: was something different. If I get on Instagram, it's going
Speaker 2: to be the same thing I see on Facebook here x.
Speaker 2: I literally just wanted to join and meet people because
Speaker 2: it's like I don't judge a book by its cover
Speaker 2: until I meet you. You know. I don't listen to
Speaker 2: the government, I don't listen to the media. I just
Speaker 2: try to put my thought process in there as.
Speaker 4: Well and describe to me your first post on shaham Shue.
Speaker 2: So it is a picture of my daughter and I.
Speaker 2: It was from like a Christmas event that we went to.
Speaker 2: We were just walking around looking at Christmas lights and
Speaker 2: I just decided to post it. I was like, hello
Speaker 2: from America. Nice to meet everybody, coming over here to
Speaker 2: make friends, see cultures. And then the first family to
Speaker 2: really see it was this beautiful family that I'm now
Speaker 2: best friends with. They're in Shanghai, and their daughter's name
Speaker 2: I think is like tu two. And then they were
Speaker 2: one of the first comments to ever post on that picture.
Speaker 2: So Tutu's mother, she posted a picture of her family,
Speaker 2: like an up close picture of their beautiful family, of course,
Speaker 2: and they were just saying hello, welcome and then after that,
Speaker 2: it just seemed like from there everybody else was just
Speaker 2: posting family pictures and welcoming and going from there.
Speaker 4: And that post just blew up overnight, right it made
Speaker 4: its way to x as well.
Speaker 2: Yep, someone ended up taking a picture of me and
Speaker 2: Tutu's family and it got onto X. I think it's
Speaker 2: got like over eight million views right now. And like
Speaker 2: I just posted it, I wasn't expecting nothing from it,
Speaker 2: and then I get on shaw and Shoe again and
Speaker 2: I was like, holy smokes. You know, there's so many
Speaker 2: people commenting and liking sharing pictures of their families, which
Speaker 2: was awesome. I think that was really great, just seeing
Speaker 2: everybody come together. Everybody was getting emotional and everyone was
Speaker 2: like connected. It was crazy. I guess this is really
Speaker 2: the first time, I mean, we've really connected with any
Speaker 2: Chinese people, to be honest, that's really nice.
Speaker 4: Now you're posting a lot on shawan Shu and interacting
Speaker 4: with new friends, are you at all concerned about giving
Speaker 4: personal information to an app owned by a Chinese company?
Speaker 2: So the reason they're trying to get rid of TikTok,
Speaker 2: they're saying it's Chinese own, and you know, Chinese are
Speaker 2: stealing our data, and it's like none of us really
Speaker 2: care because our data is being sold everywhere anyways, so
Speaker 2: it's like we might as well continue on, like we
Speaker 2: don't worry about it.
Speaker 4: So data security aside. What about censorship on shaw Hoanschhu.
Speaker 4: How familiar are you with China's censorship system.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie, I don't know too much about it.
Speaker 2: In terms of Chinese censorship. I think the only thing
Speaker 2: that I really knew not to talk about was government stuff.
Speaker 2: So I was like, let me just stay away from
Speaker 2: that in general. Right when everything started going viral, everyone's like, hey,
Speaker 2: don't post this, don't post that. Here in America when
Speaker 2: people go to the gym, they're like half naked, They're like, hey,
Speaker 2: don't do that here. Don't post links, don't talk about
Speaker 2: government stuff. We're very regulated here. And I'm like that's
Speaker 2: perfectly fine, you know, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: this is your house. Like I knew for a fact
Speaker 2: coming in I needed to respect your culture and you
Speaker 2: as a whole.
Speaker 4: And I bet that's something that Chinese users on sha
Speaker 4: Honshu really appreciate. Now with so many American users on
Speaker 4: Chahanshu if China were to clamp down or find a
Speaker 4: way to segregate US and Chinese users, or if like TikTok,
Speaker 4: the US government ends up wanting to ban Chauhankshu. How
Speaker 4: would you feel about those kinds of controls.
Speaker 2: That would be a little sad, to be honest, because
Speaker 2: I've talked to a couple other people about that on
Speaker 2: the app. Especially of course, like I said, I've been
Speaker 2: making quite a bit of friends, so it's like that
Speaker 2: would suck to be able to lose that communication with
Speaker 2: them to an extent. But I mean I've officially downloaded
Speaker 2: we chat. Oh really Yeah, we've been connecting that way,
Speaker 2: which has been great. T two and her her mother,
Speaker 2: we're best friends. Now we're already talking about visiting each
Speaker 2: other or going places. They were talking about making a
Speaker 2: trip over here to America, and we're talking about going
Speaker 2: over there to China.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's fantastic, Reckon says he and his family are
Speaker 4: thinking about visiting Q two's family in Shanghai as soon
Speaker 4: as March. He's excited to tour the city and see
Speaker 4: China for himself. After the break. How is Chao Hoon
Speaker 4: Shu handling this sudden influx of American users and will
Speaker 4: a party last. To better understand how unusual this exchanges
Speaker 4: between Chinese and American users on Chao hoang Shu, we
Speaker 4: talked to Gao Yuan, a Bloomberg Tech reporter in Singapore. Gao,
Speaker 4: how are you? Thanks for joining us?
Speaker 1: I'm good, thanks for having me.
Speaker 4: Now, Gao, do you use Shaooshu?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 1: Actually, it's my guilty pleasure. I think I used it
Speaker 1: maybe too much a week.
Speaker 4: I know what you mean. I use it a lot too.
Speaker 4: Chao hong Shu is known by many Americans as a
Speaker 4: Chinese equivalent of Instagram, but Gao says it's much more
Speaker 4: than that.
Speaker 1: The users get all kinds of contents and services from
Speaker 1: the app. They can post theory, travel photos, share videos,
Speaker 1: maybe find some restaurants, or chat with strangers, and some
Speaker 1: people do online shopping on Shahoonshu. So essentially, it's a
Speaker 1: hyper combination of many functionalities that you see on many
Speaker 1: apps from x, Instagram, clubhouse, Shane, and the beyond.
Speaker 4: The name shau Honshu literally translates to Little Red Book,
Speaker 4: and before this app became a household name, if you
Speaker 4: asked the typical Chinese what Chao Honshu means. They would
Speaker 4: probably direct you to a particular little Red Book entitled
Speaker 4: Quotations from Chairman mount Zadan.
Speaker 1: It's the name of a pamphlet with scarlet red cover
Speaker 1: full of Cherman Mountadon's quote collections. It was once a
Speaker 1: bible for the communist movement during the Culture Revolution in
Speaker 1: China in the nineteen sixties and seventies.
Speaker 4: Chao Honshu's co founder, Mirandi Chu said the app was
Speaker 4: created originally to help people shop overseas. That's according to
Speaker 4: Chinese media reports. Chu said the color red is memorable
Speaker 4: and they wanted the app to serve as a guidebook
Speaker 4: for users, hence Little Red Book. And before American users
Speaker 4: began signing up, Chauanshu was already popular outside of mainland
Speaker 4: China in places like Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia, and
Speaker 4: most of the apps users are Mandarin speakers. But a
Speaker 4: lot has changed in the last week. Now when you
Speaker 4: open up your Chauonshu, now what does the feed show you?
Speaker 4: And what are Chinese and American users talking about?
Speaker 1: It's been crazy, to be honest, They have all kinds
Speaker 1: of questions asking the answered from like what you had
Speaker 1: for lunch, to jokes Taylor Swifts, even some aliens, so
Speaker 1: all kinds of topics that you can think of. One
Speaker 1: interesting topic was the cat or dog text Tessa, you're
Speaker 1: going to pay the cat taxt for red no washyer
Speaker 1: red notes meow.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: The Chinese people say, no, I don't have a hat tax,
Speaker 1: but I have a pub text here. Check this out.
Speaker 1: This is my tax.
Speaker 4: I say hello, love you explain that to us.
Speaker 1: I think Chinese people know that in America having a
Speaker 1: pety is very popular. They actually want to see the
Speaker 1: American family's pets. So basically, the American users on Shahuanshu
Speaker 1: they should pay dog or cat tax, because firstly they
Speaker 1: do on Shahuonshu once they created account, is to post
Speaker 1: the photos of their pets.
Speaker 4: And how are Chinese users responding to these newcomers. Tikka
Speaker 4: refuge from your ass, welcome.
Speaker 2: The childs, welcome to.
Speaker 1: Visit China and not just will come here.
Speaker 2: I really really hope you will stay.
Speaker 3: I love you.
Speaker 1: The Chinese users actions were extremely friendly and they are
Speaker 1: very accepting. I have to say most of the conversations
Speaker 1: or exchanges or were very very friendly. People did not
Speaker 1: mean any harm to each other and it's very beautiful.
Speaker 4: These exchanges haven't been without friction. A lot of new
Speaker 4: joiners were challenged by the language barrier. Many found themselves
Speaker 4: disoriented by an entirely new social media platform, and to
Speaker 4: help them out, some Chinese users have organized live Q
Speaker 4: and A sessions for the newcomers, and they've been spreading
Speaker 4: guidelines in posts and comments. Top of the list of
Speaker 4: concerns making sure new users don't talk about sensitive topics
Speaker 4: like politics for fear of censorship or clamp down. Here's
Speaker 4: one exchange from a live Q and A session where
Speaker 4: people discussed the TikTok ban.
Speaker 3: It's a lot more than that. It's our first amendment, right,
Speaker 3: that's at stake.
Speaker 4: And immediately somebody in the room reminded.
Speaker 3: Them, Oh, yeah, I know, I'm being careful, but like
Speaker 3: that's kind of the main that's the main issue here.
Speaker 4: Now for the new users, who are overwhelmingly American, they're
Speaker 4: certainly not used to censorship. What do you think the
Speaker 4: Chinese government makes of this sudden influx of new users.
Speaker 1: That's a very good question, as the government has been
Speaker 1: always saying the internety is not a land without law,
Speaker 1: So from China's perspective, the contents is the big risk
Speaker 1: for them. Remember this is a walled garden the Internet
Speaker 1: within the borders of a Mali in China, So essentially
Speaker 1: this flocks off American users from another platform. Somehow breaks
Speaker 1: the the Great Firewall. If the world no longer works
Speaker 1: in Shahuonshu's case right now, it has ever reason to
Speaker 1: cause some concerns.
Speaker 4: It's not yet clear how Shaohangchu is managing this unexpected
Speaker 4: flood of TikTok converts, but there have been rumors about
Speaker 4: the company tinkering with the app's algorithm. Word is they're
Speaker 4: trying to segregate American users someone perhaps to forestall interference
Speaker 4: by the Chinese authorities. But it's not just the Chinese
Speaker 4: government Shaowangshu has to worry about. They may have to
Speaker 4: contend with what the US government might do too for Washington.
Speaker 1: I think Shahunshu pusts a series of new challenges to
Speaker 1: the regulators in the US because this is a new
Speaker 1: app that probably have never thought of making some changes
Speaker 1: to regulate it. As we speak, there are so many
Speaker 1: American users retonstrating Shahumshu accounts. I was told they all
Speaker 1: need to submit their phone number and email address. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's some kind of sensitive information that the US government
Speaker 1: has been reluctant for its citizens to submit to other countries,
Speaker 1: especially to a Chinese company.
Speaker 4: Now, goal do you think this Shaowangshu craze will last?
Speaker 1: To be honest, I didn't expect this kind of freak
Speaker 1: exchange could survive its first twenty four hours, but it's
Speaker 1: already been going on for days. It's definitely has some lacks,
Speaker 1: but it's really hard to estimates what's going to happen next.
Speaker 4: Shortly after taking office on Monday, President Trump issued an
Speaker 4: order to delay the ban on TikTok for seventy five days,
Speaker 4: meaning all those converts to Shahwangshu are now able to
Speaker 4: return to TikTok. But for now, a lot of them
Speaker 4: are saying that they feel like they've discovered a new
Speaker 4: digital home, even with the TikTok band being lifted in
Speaker 4: the US. I think I'm going to stick around if
Speaker 4: you'll let me stay. I'm staying here.
Speaker 3: Red No is Yaohoangshou.
Speaker 1: I love the energy, I love the community, I love
Speaker 1: the vibe.
Speaker 4: I'm probable stay on Red No and also be on
Speaker 4: side because they're not about to play with me again. Okay, Red, No, Hey, sister.
Speaker 4: This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm
Speaker 4: wan ha. This episode was produced by Young Young, Naomi
Speaker 4: Un and Jessica Beck. It was mixed by i'mer Sultan,
Speaker 4: sound designed by Jessica and fact checked by Naomi. It
Speaker 4: was edited by Patrick Kirsch and Edwin Chan. Naomi Shaven
Speaker 4: is our senior producer, Elizabeth Ponso is our senior editor,
Speaker 4: Nicole Beemster Bower is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman
Speaker 4: is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. Please follow and review The
Speaker 4: Big Take Asia wherever you listen to podcasts. It really
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