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Speaker 1: Warning today's episode Today spoilers for episode two eight of

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Speaker 1: Severance Sweet Vitriol. If you have not watched that, watch

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Speaker 1: it come back here you warning. Hello, my name is

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Speaker 1: Jason Concepcion and I'm rosday Night and welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Excervader of the podcast where we dive deep in your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture coming from our

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Speaker 1: podcast or we're bringing you three episodes week every Tuesday, Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: and Thursday on Saturday.

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Speaker 2: In today's episode, we are recapping and discussing the raw,

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Speaker 2: the sad, and depressing new episode of Severance Sweet Vitriol, which.

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Speaker 3: Is currently on Apple TV Plus. We will be recapping

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Speaker 3: the episode. Then we're gonna fall up on our theory

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Speaker 3: corner and see where that's at. Maybe let's get to.

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Speaker 1: It, okay. Episode two eight Sweet Vitriol, directed by Benjamin Stiller,

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Speaker 1: written oh by series creator Dan Erickson, Adam County, and

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Speaker 1: Casey Perry. This is a Kobel bottle and a little

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Speaker 1: bottle of ether for all you fans of Cobel out

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Speaker 1: and also the shortest run time of the season, and

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Speaker 1: I think almost of the series I need to go

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Speaker 1: and look back, but just over thirty five minutes, Cobell

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Speaker 1: is driving what I assume to be north.

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Speaker 3: It feels like somewhere north, especially.

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Speaker 1: In the North Ish, to a desolate coastal town called

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Speaker 1: salts Neck. It will turn out that this is her hometown.

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Speaker 1: On the way, Devin is like blowing up her phone,

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Speaker 1: but Cobel is just gonna.

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Speaker 4: Leave her on read.

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Speaker 1: She pulls up to the town and is brushing her

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Speaker 1: teeth and she's just looking around. And we get our

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Speaker 1: first look at this husk of a town where as

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Speaker 1: we will see, everyone who lives there is somehow attached

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Speaker 1: to the illicit ether trade. They are either huff in

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Speaker 1: the stuff out of a rag or as with Cobel's

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Speaker 1: former coworker Hampton, selling it. So she pulls up to

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Speaker 1: this diner, the Drippy Pot Cafe. Incredibly, the manager Hampton

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Speaker 1: is her old colleague aka former child laborer, alongside Harmony

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Speaker 1: Cobell at the Lumen Plant, which is on the outskirts

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Speaker 1: of town back.

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Speaker 5: In the day.

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Speaker 1: There is clearly something happened between them. Because clearly there's

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Speaker 1: something between them I seen as something like almost anger,

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Speaker 1: but just under the surface. Yes, Cobell says, wow, the

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Speaker 1: town looks like shit doesn't look anything like I remember

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Speaker 1: remembered it and Hampton, and one of my favorite parts

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Speaker 1: of this episode is this little spiel that Hampton gives,

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Speaker 1: which is he basically goes into the corporate jargony reasons

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Speaker 1: that the town now looks like absolute fucking shit, and

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Speaker 1: it's clear that he's like regurgitating this corporate pr speaks

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Speaker 1: story that was given to the inhabitants of the town

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Speaker 1: when Luman pulled out, She's like, can we go to

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Speaker 1: the factory to go discuss some things? So they go

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Speaker 1: there out by the factory, Cold Harbor question mark, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the entire town mark Cold Harbor.

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Speaker 3: They definitely want us to think that because it's literally

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Speaker 3: icy cold, coupled by the ocean, webs can come and go.

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Speaker 1: So yes, they have an annoyingly cryptic conversation out here.

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Speaker 1: And I will say this was the one. This is

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Speaker 1: the This is not a bad episode, although I've seen

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Speaker 1: it as semi divisive, and.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a little divisive. I think it widened well,

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Speaker 3: we'll talk about mobile. I think it widens the wild

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Speaker 3: of severance that is very different to what the peak

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Speaker 3: of the show has been. So I'm I'm not surprised

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Speaker 3: that it got people.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but this is very This is an episode is

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Speaker 1: very dependent on those kind of maybe like the lowest

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Speaker 1: value cryptic conversations that Severance is known for, where two

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Speaker 1: characters or more characters are having a conversation with the

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Speaker 1: important information kind of lifted out that they know and

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Speaker 1: we don't. And this is one of those episodes where

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Speaker 1: I'm like noticing that.

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Speaker 4: They're just having a scryptic conversation.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, They're talking about Sissy, who it will turn out,

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Speaker 1: is Kobel's maternal aunt and a full on cure cultist

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Speaker 1: who took in Harmony when Harmony's mom was was ill

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Speaker 1: with ether related lung disease. Coobel admits that listen, I've

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Speaker 1: got some lumin heat on me. They're mad at me,

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Speaker 1: and so they're after me for whatever reason, and I

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Speaker 1: need to go talk to Sissy, but also I can't

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Speaker 1: be seen in case anybody's watching the house. So Cobel

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Speaker 1: is like, can you take me up there? So Cobel

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Speaker 1: then drops some cure lore about the factory, saying, you

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Speaker 1: know Kiri, which we've seen, We've seen the painting right

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Speaker 1: where yeah.

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Speaker 3: There's a g I will say if you are not

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Speaker 3: somebody who watches the recaps, this is a great episode

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Speaker 3: because I have to say, if there is an editing

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Speaker 3: award for a recap and a previously on that actually

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Speaker 3: tells you every single thing you need to know, this

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Speaker 3: episode has an unbelievable recap where you get some really

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Speaker 3: great quotes and kind of context from Helena. There's this

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Speaker 3: great moment where she and me and Joel were kind

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Speaker 3: of going mad about this one where she shows her

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Speaker 3: saying to Harmony in a previous episode like you overestimate

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Speaker 3: your brilliance and underestimate your blessings. And you can start

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Speaker 3: to see the bitterness and kind of why the vegans

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Speaker 3: might not like Harmony in this episode. And then yeah,

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Speaker 3: we get the Imagiant and Kia paintings and kind of

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Speaker 3: the the we it's such a good raycap, Like give

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Speaker 3: that head some money, because I was really like, whoa

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Speaker 3: they they drool the threads together for me? But yes,

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Speaker 3: so we've seen the paintings. We kind of know a

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Speaker 3: bit more. But now we're getting the real law.

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Speaker 1: Right, So apparently according to the Egan lower kir Met.

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Speaker 4: His partner imagen imaging imaging.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a giant imagine they say it and strange.

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Speaker 3: They say it in a stranger basically imagen at the.

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Speaker 1: Ether factory, and Hampton is like, oh was her Like

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Speaker 1: were her lungs ravaged as well? And then Cobel is like,

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Speaker 1: take me up to Sissy. So they go up there,

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Speaker 1: and Cobel rides in the in the bed of Hampton's

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Speaker 1: pickup just in case the Luogoons are watching. Hampton is

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Speaker 1: clearly not a fan of Sissy at all. Cobel knocks

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Speaker 1: on the door, barges in, and Cissy's like, what the

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Speaker 1: fuck are you doing here? She just goes in and

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Speaker 1: starts looking around, and we see that there. You know

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Speaker 1: that clearly Harmony and Hampton grew up here because we

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Speaker 1: see their growth markers on the door, like any house

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Speaker 1: that has children in it. And Cobel is looking for

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Speaker 1: desperately looking around for her stuff. There's something in her

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Speaker 1: stuff that was that she needs. There's a plaque on

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Speaker 1: the wall announcing that Sissy real name Celestine. Cobel was

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Speaker 1: like the lumin version of employee of the Month, but

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Speaker 1: it's like employee.

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Speaker 4: Of the Quarter, like the striver of the quarter.

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Speaker 3: You're like a cult follower of yes.

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Speaker 1: Like so, Harmony's like, where's my stuff, Where's my childhood stuff?

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Speaker 1: Where's my stuff from when I was a kid, when

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Speaker 1: I was a student, when I was in the Fellow

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Speaker 1: Tide Wintertide Fellowship.

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Speaker 4: I need all that stuff. Cecy's like, well, I sold

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Speaker 4: it to the.

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Speaker 3: Poor everyone has bo babe, why did you sell it to?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Why did you do that?

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Speaker 1: And Harmony's like, well, has anybody from Lumen come.

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Speaker 4: By or called?

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Speaker 1: And He's like, yeah, mister Drummond called. And it's clear

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Speaker 1: that Sissy knows that Harmony is in some kind of trouble.

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Speaker 1: Harmony immediately runs over, disconnects the phone, rips the fucking

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Speaker 1: cordla phone, and then is like, give me the key

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Speaker 1: to my mom's room. And here's an interesting exchange. She

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Speaker 1: then asks Cissy, what were my mother's last last words?

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Speaker 1: And it basically accuses Cissy of like against.

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Speaker 4: Her mother's will, pulling her mother.

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Speaker 1: Off of life support, and Cissy is basically implies that

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Speaker 1: her mother wanted her to take her off life support

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Speaker 1: and then says of Harmony's mom quote, if only she

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Speaker 1: was a believer, perhaps she would have found solace in

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Speaker 1: the Nine. The nine, you know, the command.

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Speaker 3: Potentially, which is also of cure. Yeah, okay, So if

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Speaker 3: I'm dying of lung disease from either recycle, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to be I'm like, I'm gonna be thinking about vision

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Speaker 3: of witch, realty, benevolence, nimbleness, wild, how you.

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Speaker 1: Will be lifted away. But I found the the last

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Speaker 1: word it felt very weighted, to the point where I

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Speaker 1: was like, it almost made me wonder if Sissy.

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Speaker 4: Truly knew her reasons for.

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Speaker 1: In a severance kind of way, truly understood what happened

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Speaker 1: when she took Mom off life support, was that her

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Speaker 1: doing that was There's some because clearly, you know, Ether

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Speaker 1: was one and early product of Women, which we now

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Speaker 1: understand is a pharma tech kind of company makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of products, but forman tech seem to be the mainstays,

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Speaker 1: and that Ether was an early attempt at like wiping

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Speaker 1: people's minds so that they would not experience and the

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Speaker 1: rigor of the work they were doing.

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Speaker 3: They were like, oh, you can basically just use ether

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Speaker 3: as essentially an anesthetic, but a walking anesthetic, because ether

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Speaker 3: is an anesthetic. But they were like, can you get

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Speaker 3: people to be on it so they don't notice how

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Speaker 3: bad their lives are, which is honestly very real. Like

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Speaker 3: up north in England in places where there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of minds, there was big like pain huffing culture

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Speaker 3: and like different kind of substance abuse because of how

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Speaker 3: bad it was to work in the minds and to

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Speaker 3: be a child laborer and stuff. So this is actually

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Speaker 3: like very depressingly real. But it's interesting to see how

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Speaker 3: they're now going to take that and as we learn

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Speaker 3: later in this episode, kind of how it became severance

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Speaker 3: as we know it now.

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Speaker 1: We get a lot of information from this back and

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Speaker 1: forth argument between Harmony and her aunt, including that Harmony's

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Speaker 1: mom really started to serious declined when Harmony was at

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Speaker 1: school and Cissy kept this from her. She said, I

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Speaker 1: would have come back to take care of her. But

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Speaker 1: Sissy is like, no, it was so important that you

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Speaker 1: were in the Wintertide Fellow and like you're a Wintertide

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Speaker 1: fellow and Keer saw you with his own eye, Jamee,

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Speaker 1: and you know it was like you are you're such

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Speaker 1: an incredible striver, like you were hand hicked by the Egans.

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Speaker 1: He saw Kier and you yes, say James saw here

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Speaker 1: in you. All that kind of stuff Harmony is like, well,

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Speaker 1: what a drummond want when he called? And Sissy doesn't say,

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Speaker 1: but basically is like, just go back, ask forgiveness from

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Speaker 1: the Egans and they will agree to forgive you. And

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Speaker 1: Harmony looks down in Cissy's hands as she's playing with

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Speaker 1: some kind of like jame Egan dollhead, which will become

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Speaker 1: clear what this reminds her of later, but that sparks

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Speaker 1: something in her. She remembers something about the things she's

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Speaker 1: looking for, runs up to Sissy's room and then basically

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Speaker 1: like cop tosses it, looks through everything, finds the key

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Speaker 1: to mom's room, and then goes to open the door.

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Speaker 1: And we're gonna take a quick break to.

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Speaker 4: Listen to a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 5: Then we're going to talk about what is inside there,

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Speaker 5: and we're back.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I would have just kicked the door open,

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Speaker 1: because this house looks like it hasn't been updated built

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Speaker 1: like one. Yeah, just like bad boy in worry about

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Speaker 1: the Pompy.

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Speaker 3: Is strong compared to everyone else here, who's like fucked

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Speaker 3: up on etha like she.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, she gets the key, she goes inside and there's

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Speaker 1: her mother's room just as it must have appeared when

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Speaker 1: she was ill and when she passed away. You know,

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Speaker 1: the the bed is raised at at like a forty

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Speaker 1: five degree angle, so that which is easier for people

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Speaker 1: with bathing issues. It's easier to breathe when you're resting.

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Speaker 4: When you're sitting up slightly.

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Speaker 1: We see the breathing machine, We see her moth eaten,

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Speaker 1: her mother's moth eaten clothes in the closet. We see

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Speaker 1: a picture what I assume to be Harmony when she

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Speaker 1: was a child. And then Harmony lays on the bed.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I perceive this as she puts

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Speaker 1: the breathing tube to her mouth and begins breathing through it.

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Speaker 1: And I perceive this as she's trying to get in

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Speaker 1: touch with her mother's last week's, last.

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Speaker 3: Months exactly like what did it feel like. It's a

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Speaker 3: really unsettling and kind of depressing image because there's also

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Speaker 3: the duality of like she's like laying there like breathing

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Speaker 3: into her breathing in and out, and it's very similar

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Speaker 3: to kind of the ether huffing kind of breathing that

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Speaker 3: you would do. There's a lot of layers here, and

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Speaker 3: I have to say which I'm way you feel about

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Speaker 3: the episode. Patricia Ucat is absolutely killing it, like this

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Speaker 3: is a powerhouse episode and I wouldn't be surprised with

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Speaker 3: that trying to put forward for some awarned contention here.

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Speaker 1: So she Harmony cries herself sleep, and then we see

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Speaker 1: this image that I originally thought was like something under

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Speaker 1: a microscope, like crystals and her microscope, but which our

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Speaker 1: discord chief Heidi tells me is like a satellite shot

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Speaker 1: of ice that they then superimposed over the waters in

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Speaker 1: the bay, kind of sloshing around against the testing. And

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Speaker 1: then time passes and Harmony is awakened to the sound

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Speaker 1: of Hampton and Sissy arguing as he comes in to

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Speaker 1: basically look for and he's he's just like, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, it's been a long time, and I'm freezing like what.

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Speaker 3: He outside of a truck? Why are you having a nap? Like, please,

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Speaker 3: it's very cold out there.

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Speaker 1: Harmony is like, I can't find it, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: and they talk about her mom. Hampton liked her. When

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Speaker 1: Harmony says, well you barely knew her, he says she

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Speaker 1: hated lumin more than I did. That's all I needed

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Speaker 1: to know. So interesting interesting details.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it also feels like adds to the idea that

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Speaker 3: Sissy probably took her off life support or you know,

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Speaker 3: killed her, because potentially, I don't know, maybe she was

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Speaker 3: an early hater of Lumen in a way that could

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Speaker 3: impact the rest of what we see going on in

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Speaker 3: the rest of the seas.

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Speaker 1: Hampton then asks like, do you want to get huh,

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Speaker 1: pulls out an ether rag and gets into it. You know,

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Speaker 1: Harmony huffs a little, rag gets into that rag, and

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Speaker 1: she's like, I haven't done that since I was eight,

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Speaker 1: And it was clear this was part of the work day,

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Speaker 1: because Hampton is like, you're ready to man the that

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Speaker 1: for ten hours, which is just dire.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: She then tells.

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Speaker 1: Hampton that it's shameful that you sell this, and they kiss,

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Speaker 1: and then suddenly Harmony's like, oh, now I'm getting another

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Speaker 1: piece of where that stuff might be. And we're realizing

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Speaker 1: that whether it's ether or her long life, Harmony's memory

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Speaker 1: is spotty as like, not as spotty as obviously someone

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Speaker 1: has been severed, but like she's trying to claw back

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Speaker 1: that year in a way that many characters.

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Speaker 3: There's still stuff she can't remember.

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Speaker 1: So she gets the idea and she's like, Sissy would

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Speaker 1: not have thrown my stuff away or given it to

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Speaker 1: the poor.

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Speaker 4: I don't believe that.

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Speaker 1: She goes outside to like a kind of underground pantry,

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Speaker 1: a cold room, and she finds her stuff, including like

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Speaker 1: a lumin yearbook and with her like Wintertide fellow right

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Speaker 1: up in there, and some stuff animals, and then she

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Speaker 1: finds her Wintertide like Fellowship award bust of James Egan.

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Speaker 1: And that is the thing that sparked when she looked

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Speaker 1: in Cissy's hands and saw her holding like a Jame

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Speaker 1: Egan doll head. This is what sparked in her because

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Speaker 1: inside of the bust, she unscrews the base. Inside there

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Speaker 1: is a rolled up leather bound notebook, and then she goes.

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Speaker 1: She immediately runs into Sissy, and she's brandishing the rolled

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Speaker 1: up notebook and she's like, I'm leaving now. Don't tell

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Speaker 1: the lumins that I was here. And Sissy's like, I

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Speaker 1: would never lie to an Egan.

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Speaker 3: Oh, come on.

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Speaker 1: Sissy is like, listen, you owe the Egans. You're fealty

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Speaker 1: because of what they lifted you up from nothing and

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Speaker 1: the fellowship, and look at your great success and all

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Speaker 1: the things you've done in your life. It's all because

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Speaker 1: of them, so you can never go against them. Harmony

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Speaker 1: then says, oh, I owe them, and she opens the

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Speaker 1: notebook and she's screaming that like, basically, severance was her idea.

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Speaker 3: Quite to me.

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Speaker 4: It's the design, the.

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Speaker 1: Chip, the surgery, the brain waves, the glass go block,

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Speaker 1: all the fucking shit that is involved in the process,

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Speaker 1: the technology created by her and stolen essentially by Jame

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Speaker 1: Egan and passed off as his own. She Harmony says, like,

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Speaker 1: they told me if I sought credit for this, that

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Speaker 1: I would be banished whatever that means from the e

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Speaker 1: I guess from the Egan cult. And Sissy then tries

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Speaker 1: to burn the notebook, which come on, baby, why Harmony

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Speaker 1: snatches it out of the fire and says basically that

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Speaker 1: she hopes that she dies, and then Sissy's like, well,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, well your mom pulled the tube out herself.

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Speaker 1: She clawed it out of her neck, and Harmony's like,

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Speaker 1: oh well, I don't fucking believe you. Meanwhile, Hampton is

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Speaker 1: honking because someone's coming. Harmony gets into Hampton's car is like,

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Speaker 1: I'm leaving, and Hampton is like, well, I'm gonna stay here,

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Speaker 1: and face whatever this is, and then Harmony speeds off

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Speaker 1: and you see these headlights approaching and Hampton says, come

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Speaker 1: to take these tempers assholes. Meanwhile in the truck, Harmony

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Speaker 1: finally answers her phone. It's Devin. Devin is like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, thank God. Like Mark is integrating, but we

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Speaker 1: want to we want to try something else, she says,

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Speaker 1: and immediately Harmony understands that only Regabi could have done this,

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Speaker 1: the reintegration process with Mark, and then she's like, put

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Speaker 1: Mark on the phone, markets on the phone, and then

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Speaker 1: we basically cut.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, She's like tell me everything.

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Speaker 4: Yeah to Oh, what's the name of that bed?

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Speaker 3: Oh everyone's favorite patent?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah it was what was it? Firewoman? I think

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Speaker 4: by the Cult.

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Speaker 1: Which pointed here's a little trivia, a little trivia for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very pointed, right. The Cult also a little trivia that

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Speaker 1: I think the lead singer for the Cult was like

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Speaker 1: in the Running for Play Jim Morrison in the Doors movie. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: let's go to a quick ad and then come back

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Speaker 1: and talk about this episode. And we're back, Rosie. We

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Speaker 1: got a lot of interesting stuff in this episode. It

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Speaker 1: is a little light of an episode in terms of

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Speaker 1: connected to something to everything else.

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Speaker 4: But your thoughts on this episode.

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Speaker 3: I think that it broadens the world in a way

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Speaker 3: I do find intriguing, but I give.

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Speaker 4: You some of the really important backstory.

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Speaker 3: It gives us some of the backstory. It also kind

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Speaker 3: of hints at what is out there, because I've always

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Speaker 3: thought one of the most interesting things about separance is

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Speaker 3: we know what the Ennis are trying to escape, but

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Speaker 3: we never really know what the our ties are kind

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Speaker 3: of living through, Like is the Egan cult something that

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Speaker 3: is in control of the world like we we it's

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Speaker 3: there's They could do a broad kind of rug pull

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Speaker 3: where they reveal and I think this does broaden it

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Speaker 3: a bit. I get why people were kind of shocked

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Speaker 3: by the shift, but I do also think that there

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Speaker 3: is something very interesting about Harmony's journey here and the

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Speaker 3: you know, yeah, it is as I saw a lot

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Speaker 3: of people talking about, it's very interesting to be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: a woman made this and it was stolen, but also

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Speaker 3: then she stayed within the company and used it to

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Speaker 3: exploit many other people, And I think that it adds

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Speaker 3: a moral complexity. I also think that Regarbi and Harmony

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Speaker 3: clearly have some kind of past together and I'm interested

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Speaker 3: also to know. I believe what Sis she said when

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Speaker 3: she said that Harmony's mom pulled out her own breathing tube.

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Speaker 3: And I think the reason why is because Harmony's mom

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Speaker 3: was told that her daughter had created this kind of

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Speaker 3: even more extreme, horrible thing, and I think she was horrified.

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Speaker 3: I thought this was a very hard episode to watch,

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Speaker 3: but not because it wasn't good. It's just incredibly depressing. Amply,

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Speaker 3: it is a very very depressing episode something I mean

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Speaker 3: Severance has had. I just think that they the genre

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00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 3: concept and the mystery when You're in with the Innies

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Speaker 3: has kind of had a lightness to it that this

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Speaker 3: episode does not have.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a very very bleak episode, down

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Speaker 1: to the landscape being bleak and like it's almost lifeless,

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Speaker 1: like a moonscape this episode. I agree with you in

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Speaker 1: everything you're saying about, you know, the harmony of it all.

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Speaker 1: I think that the way I perceived this, the complexity

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Speaker 1: of her creating the Severance procedure, is that, like I

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Speaker 1: think it was an act of love. I think she

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Speaker 1: saw her mom be damaged by the mines, she watched

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Speaker 1: everyone around her be damaged by breathing in this ether,

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Speaker 1: and she thought, okay.

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Speaker 4: Since.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, it's crazy that the culture of working

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Speaker 1: for Egan is like, we do such crazy, rigorous, dangerous

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Speaker 1: work that you want to not remember you were there

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Speaker 1: when you leave, Like, how can we make how can

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00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: we make that part of it essentially like a kind

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Speaker 1: of punch clock slavery situation, you know, where you're a

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Speaker 1: slave when you punch in, but then you leave and

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Speaker 1: you're and you're fine, you're yourself. And clearly coming up

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Speaker 1: with this procedure was an act of love, almost like

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Speaker 1: the others would have saved my mom's life, her lungs

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00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: would not have been ravage. Here's a way that you

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00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: can separate yourself from the dangerous work that you do

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Speaker 1: and still be able to like have a family and

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Speaker 1: have an enriching life outside of that. Not understanding the

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Speaker 1: horrors of the thing that she had created clearly, and

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Speaker 1: it's uncles to me now whether she really believes it,

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Speaker 1: believes in the horrors of what she's mad having seen

409
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Speaker 1: all the things that she's must have seen. So I

410
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Speaker 1: thought that I really enjoyed that part of it. I

411
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: thought it was so interesting. This is a good episode

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Speaker 1: not a bad one. I think, on the scale of

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Speaker 1: severance is so high quality that it's like there are

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Speaker 1: no bad episodes.

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Speaker 4: But this was the one episode.

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Speaker 1: Where I became a little worried as I texted you

417
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Speaker 1: about the Donnie Darko syndrome, which is that when the

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00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: mystery is active and you don't know air quotes what

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00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: the show is about, there's this propulsion to you know,

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Speaker 1: there's this fascination, almost like a magical hold that the

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00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: story has on you, where it's so intriguing, but as

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00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: soon as you know, it becomes dumb. And this only

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Speaker 1: I was only worried about it because you barely notice

424
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: watching this show and being a fan of it, that

425
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: almost all the mystery would go away if only certain

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Speaker 1: characters would just have a conversation. For instance, if we

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00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: would just like have a conversation or watch a conversation

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Speaker 1: between like Cobell and Regabi, or like a full conversation

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Speaker 1: between Mark and Regaby, almost everything that we were wondering

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Speaker 1: about would be like lifted, like the veil would be lifted.

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00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: The fact that we're not annoyed by that shows us

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Speaker 1: what a great show this is.

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Speaker 4: And I think, mm hmm. I while I thought this

434
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 4: was a good episode. I hope not too many more

435
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 4: of these, because.

436
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 3: I'm interested to see where they go next.

437
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: A few more of these and people will start to

438
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: be like, why can't we have that conversation with Gaby,

439
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: Why can't we know more about what's going on in Yeah?

440
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 3: So I agree, no, no, no, no, I agree. I

441
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 3: think I've definitely seen a lot of very divisive reactions

442
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 3: online as well, like is this the first bad episode

443
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: of Severance? Like I don't think, no, this is not

444
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 3: a badly made episode of television. Now does it fit

445
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: into your world of what you were hoping Severance would be?

446
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: Now that's the question, because I do think something else

447
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 3: that's really interesting that this episode raises is we've will

448
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: be and like, you know, clones, goats, like what's going on?

449
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: But also I'm like, miss Wang, maybe it's just child labor,

450
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 3: Like she's another child, just child labor, and they you

451
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 3: do it. So I'm interested because I think that the

452
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 3: moral complexity of where this show is at could get

453
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 3: very very very intriguing and messy and real if they've

454
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: got the chops. I do believe the show has the chops.

455
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: I also want before we get into kind of where

456
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 3: this leaves us before the last two episodes. I want

457
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 3: super producer Joelle to jump in because she is the

458
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 3: queen of theories on this show, and I know she

459
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 3: has a lot of thoughts about Severs episode eight from

460
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 3: season two.

461
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 6: Hi, guys, Hi, there's really just one theory for me

462
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 6: this week, and I text you guys about it, and

463
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 6: it's a thing that's been talked about in sevent for

464
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 6: a really long time. You have all these illusions to

465
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 6: the Civil War. Cold Harbor is a big battle that

466
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 6: the South one really decimated the North during the Civil War.

467
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 6: People have been online being like, hey, we don't want

468
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 6: this show, for very obvious reasons, to be about slavery.

469
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 6: But I'm just like, with the child labor infusion this week,

470
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 6: I just have to think, like, is this show just

471
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 6: about the impact of slavery on labor and throughout like

472
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 6: American history, Like, there's a reason we keep going back

473
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 6: to all of these different these and time periods. There's

474
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 6: a reason. Like I really liked this episode. I was

475
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 6: kind of surprised by the reaction, although maybe I shouldn't be.

476
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 6: Bottle episodes are notoriously Yeah, not a bottle episode but

477
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 6: these all shoots of like one character far away from

478
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 6: everybody are often controversial, but to me, I always feel

479
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 6: like this is the writers being able to expand the

480
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 6: story in such an interesting way and watching Harmony navigate

481
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 6: her past, and especially like that whole breathing tube scene.

482
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 6: So you guys mentioned, oh like it. It's sort of

483
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 6: like the huffing. It's sort of her connected to her mother.

484
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 6: To me, I was like, is she suckling? Is this

485
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 6: her like perverting to being a right?

486
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, in a way, there's that too, for sure.

487
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 6: I was like this, this whole episode to me, really

488
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 6: cemented a lot, to the point where I was like,

489
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 6: are there mysteries left in this show?

490
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 5: Like hop like this is a series.

491
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 6: About it's just just about the impact of slavery, labor

492
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 6: and throughout history. And I was so compelled by that

493
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 6: as like a thought experiment, And I was curious if

494
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 6: that works for you guys, or if that idea of

495
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 6: that it's off putting for you. I know a lot

496
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 6: of people are like, please don't touch this, Oh messy,

497
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 6: it's so difficult.

498
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: Well, I think that obviously in America, first of all,

499
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: slavery as a practice is like sadly an age old

500
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: and global industry or was, and it has a very

501
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: specific and I think different kind of connotation here in America,

502
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: which I'm not super eager to is like the basis

503
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: of a show, but I don't think that that's necessarily

504
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: what this show is about. I think what this show

505
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: is about is like the gray line between work and exploitation.

506
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: And like one thing I was thinking about with this show,

507
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: you have this factory in this town, and then it

508
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: closes down and you see the devastation that it leaves behind.

509
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: But when it was active, it was actively devastating the community,

510
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: getting kids looked on ether and then it's pulled out

511
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: and you get this very cynical, cutting mini speech from

512
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: Hampton in which he spouts the kind of corporate capitalist

513
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: jargon about the reasons that they pulled the heart out

514
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: of the town. The heart of the town was this

515
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: terrible factory that was killing everybody. But now that it's gone,

516
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 1: nobody's happy about that either. And I think that's what

517
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: this show is about. It's about the fact that we've

518
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: created this exploit tative system that nurtures and sustains and

519
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: exploits us all and the only thing worse than this

520
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: terrible exploitive system is if it goes away, And I think,

521
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: because there's nothing else, there's only chaos afterwards.

522
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 4: And to me, that's what this show is about.

523
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: It's about quote air quotes late stage capitalism, which is

524
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: late stage capitalism to me means we don't have any

525
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: other ideas except this horrible thing that we are actively.

526
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 3: Doing that's getting more horrible.

527
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that to me is what this show is about,

528
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: not necessarily not slavery.

529
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 4: It's about exploitation.

530
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 6: It's like, yeah, we're trying to like recreate or something

531
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 6: like that, which I've seen some theory.

532
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you see that theory.

533
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 6: That's the case. But I do think if when you

534
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 6: look at labor structure through it's consistently like our laws

535
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 6: are constantly Oh, let me, it's the reason we have,

536
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 6: like was like two thirty minimm wage for waiters and

537
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 6: things like that. I think like that thread is being

538
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 6: constantly put to your point, this space now where people

539
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 6: are like, hey, as awful as places, I would rather

540
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 6: just be high so I can survive it because I

541
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 6: don't seem like an outside of it, And I think

542
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 6: that works really well. I'm excited to see Harmony re

543
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 6: enter the picture. The thing that was also really interesting

544
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 6: to me and Rosie and I Sideline talked about this

545
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 6: a little bit, was like this the way people felt

546
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 6: about Harmony after this episode. I thought it was really

547
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 6: interesting because it's massively divided. Some people were like, hey,

548
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 6: you were a part of the system, and then you

549
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 6: created a device that a sort of allows you to

550
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 6: survive being a part of that system, which I think

551
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 6: is haunting.

552
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 3: Probably came from yeah, like she doesn't want about how

553
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 3: was it used.

554
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, because it's really interesting to think about, Like, Okay,

555
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 6: so Harmony is both a victim and a supporter of

556
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 6: the system, right and and potentially making the lives of

557
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 6: folks within the sysem much worse. But she was trying

558
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 6: to do that by alleviating the daily stress and impact

559
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 6: of the ten hours you have to be on the grind.

560
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 6: And I think that there are a lot of folks

561
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 6: who are like, oh, she's a hero now because she

562
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 6: sees the evil and she's marching back.

563
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: But we don't know, I mean, we don't know. I'm like, guys,

564
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 3: I will say too ahead of the game. We don't

565
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: know what she's I don't know. Also, I just want

566
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: to say before Joel and Jason, I both think you're right.

567
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: I think that this is a show and I do

568
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: think that to talk about exploitation in America well around

569
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: the world and the way labor works is to recognize

570
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 3: that when slavers were stopped from owning people, they had

571
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 3: to find new ways to exploit people. And I do

572
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: think that the show wants to reckon with how that

573
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 3: impacts global economy and capitalism. And I also want to say,

574
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 3: and I'm sorry if you don't want to hear me,

575
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 3: make this about real life right now, how you can

576
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: put your ear off song, because I know sometimes people

577
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 3: get tired of me. But like, guess what, Slavery still exists,

578
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 3: and it's called the prison industrial system, and in its

579
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 3: own way, severance is very much akin to that, because

580
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 3: it is this idea of you go into somewhere and

581
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: when you are in there, you are allowed to be

582
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: a slave, even though in every other part of American

583
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 3: culture allegedly slavery does not exist. But in the prison

584
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 3: system people are used as indentured servitude labor. They don't

585
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: earn money, and giant corporations make millions and millions of

586
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: dollars of the off of them, huge companies like Walmart,

587
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: like you know, Victoria's Secret, Like, there are companies that

588
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 3: do that. And I think that if this show has

589
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 3: the chops and it is exploring that, I think there's

590
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 3: a lot of similarities there that could be explored. And

591
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: obviously child labor is a part of that too, because

592
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: that has long been a way that working class people

593
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 3: and people without opportunities to move up the social lata

594
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: in capitalism have been exploited. But yes, so I think

595
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: that it's really interesting. I don't think we're getting any

596
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 3: of those answers in the next two episodes. I think

597
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: that's like a season three season full type.

598
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: You know, I've been thinking about this before we dive

599
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: into a real theory corner, I think it's maybe useful

600
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: to just kind of list off what we actually know

601
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: for sure, and so let's start here Lumen. Lumen is

602
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: a company with its roots in the mid nineteenth century.

603
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: We know that they started, you know, with topical salves

604
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: and clearly ether this is kind of like early pharmaceutical industry,

605
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: and are now a company that works in the kind

606
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: of confluence of tech medicine and pharmaceuticals somewhere in there, right.

607
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 3: And they do.

608
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: They probably do other stuff as well, but it seems

609
00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: like medical supplies, technology and pharmaceuticals is where Lumen works

610
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: because we remember, I remember there was like a piece

611
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: of dialogue earlier in the show where they were talking

612
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: about someone was sick because they had taken like non

613
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: lumin medication. So we understand that there's Helene I had

614
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: taken non limit. We know that we know that Severance

615
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: was created by a Harmony Cobell who was then the

616
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: manager of the Severed Floor but lost her job in

617
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: the Severance Uprising for reasons that are kind of still

618
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: like a little.

619
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 3: Is it because they felt like she failed because the

620
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 3: seven people were able to rebel? I'm interested in that also,

621
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: how much I think it's.

622
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: Because I think it's because she was being too nice

623
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: or what they perceived to be. It's very clear to

624
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: me that they part of what they like about Miltchik

625
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: is milk Chick. When they're like, you got to crack down,

626
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: Meltchick's like fine, and Cobel was not willing, perhaps to

627
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: crack down in the way that Miltchick is.

628
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 6: Cobell did what she wanted to do.

629
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 4: She did what she wanted to do.

630
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 6: At this point, like when they're like, hey, be less smart,

631
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 6: he's like, all right, I'll grow up. I'll just yell

632
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 6: at myself in a mirror until I conform to year

633
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 6: they were. His harmony is like I'll pretend to be

634
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 6: a milk helper and like teach this woman.

635
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

636
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: Well I think like the introduction of miss Casey into

637
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: the severed flass clearly her idea, and it went badly.

638
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 1: We know that you can be severed multiple times, which

639
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: was a big question mark, right. We know that specifically

640
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: the board level people and probably management level people look

641
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: at Innis with utter disdain. And we know that that

642
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: this process was seen, at least in some leadership circles

643
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: in Lumen as a kind of way to like rehabilitate

644
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: people who were either criminals as we saw with Bert,

645
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: or maybe something else. Is that all we know?

646
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 3: But that's a lot, that's a lot. We That's the

647
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: funny thing, like Joelle said where she was like she

648
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 3: watched this episode and she was like, is there a mystery?

649
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: Like is it just about this person who is like

650
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 3: escape child labor by creating apparently a more humane way

651
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 3: to create a labor force and is now living with it.

652
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 3: I think it really could be that simple. I'm interested

653
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 3: to see if they do a big swing kind of

654
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 3: genre hint moment at the end, because they have to

655
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 3: have that hook in the last two episodes to make

656
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 3: people want to watch season three.

657
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: Here's what the miss there's there's two mysteries to me.

658
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: One is why is Jemma down there? Like why what

659
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: does specifically her being down there accomplish for the company,

660
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 1: Because clearly that's important, right and Mark's work with Cold

661
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: Harbor is tied up in that. That's to me the

662
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: central mystery. Why is Jemma down there? Why they kidnap her?

663
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: Why do they make her disappear? And why is she

664
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: so important or whatever the project is, because what the

665
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: project is, I think is kind of that the central mystery.

666
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: And then the second overall missing piece, to me, that

667
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: is kind of mystery, and we've gotten hints of it.

668
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: What does the rest of the world know about Severance

669
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: and what do they think about it?

670
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 4: Like we get these hints.

671
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: That like, oh, the story of your innies became very popular,

672
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: like on the outside, it was all over the news

673
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: like this. Uprising notes we get these hints right where

674
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: they say stuff like that, but we don't really know

675
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: what people almost.

676
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 3: It's like, is it just a company town.

677
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: We don't really know what people think about it. And

678
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: I think that's an important part of this, because do

679
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: we live in a world in which this is fine, right,

680
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: or do we live in a world in which this

681
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: is not?

682
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 3: Okay? That's kind of a big deal.

683
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 6: I got a hint of it when Dylan was interviewing

684
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 6: at the Door Factory and it was all going well

685
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 6: until the guys are like leaning into like, oh, you're

686
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 6: severed and so definitely, and then a little bit when

687
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 6: we go to Birt's place and when you're like, okay,

688
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 6: so the church is okay with it. Is it like

689
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 6: connected to Lumen in a larger way or is it

690
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 6: that like there's something really about that where they're like, hey, no,

691
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 6: these are like individuals who still have a chance of

692
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 6: getting saved at the end of their lives. I think

693
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 6: it's probably split. I'm curious to see, like to what level, Yeah, like,

694
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 6: are were people marching in the streets against it? Is

695
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 6: this just a thing where like, hey, if you choose

696
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 6: to do it like that's your business. I think that

697
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 6: will be really interesting. I do hope we find out

698
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 6: like I hope we get a world opener at the

699
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 6: very end. I hope we see a different space or

700
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 6: a different angle outside of the main building to sort

701
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 6: of fill that space. And I'm also hoping, yeah, I'm

702
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 6: also hoping, like I really love when the penultimate episode

703
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 6: has a big reveal and then the finale is questions.

704
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 6: That's always really thrilling to me. I hope that's the

705
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 6: direction we're going with season two.

706
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think. I I would love to see

707
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 3: if it's going to be like a kind of, you know,

708
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 3: a classic very divisive pull out where you kind of

709
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 3: realize that the places that have severance are almost like

710
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: company towns where no one else can go, and there's

711
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 3: kind of like what Saltsneck was, but in an even

712
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 3: more broad way where there's I'm very interested. I think,

713
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 3: as much as we know, they're doing a good job

714
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: of keeping us intrigued with questions like this that could

715
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 3: be completely relevant or absolutely irrelevant, and we never get

716
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 3: the answers to them. So I'm interested for the next

717
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 3: two episodes to see.

718
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: Why any theories any did this episode change or create

719
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 1: any new theories for you, Joel.

720
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 6: No, I'm just more convinced than ever that Milchik is

721
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 6: also part of this like fellowship program back in the day, I.

722
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 4: Know that miss as a wintertime.

723
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 6: Fellow harmony was like his like.

724
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 4: Teacher or like maybe she victim or something.

725
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, And then I saw a really good theory that

726
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 6: I liked, which is that Burt isn't severed and never

727
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 6: has been.

728
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 3: He could sell it. I believe it. One of the

729
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 3: ones that something you sent me, Joel that I thought

730
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 3: was really interesting that I'd love to know more about.

731
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 3: Is the connection between Like what Natalie wears is essentially

732
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 3: the same jumpsuit as we see Gemma when she is where,

733
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 3: and I think there's some interesting stuff there, Like, is

734
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: the reason that mil Chick and Natalie connect not because

735
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 3: of some you know, they're looking at each other and

736
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 3: being like, oh, maybe we're both being exploited in this system,

737
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 3: or but actually because she is his Gemma? Like is

738
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 3: that something do they make? They do they bring in

739
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 3: people who are close and see to test how well

740
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 3: the severance is working. And do those women have to

741
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 3: constantly be traumatized and tortured and in this case, two

742
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 3: women of color that we've seen to keep proving that.

743
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 3: I think that that I don't think anything is aesthetically

744
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 3: an accident here. So I want to know the jumpsuit connection.

745
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 3: I think that's so interesting and otherwise I just want

746
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: to I would like to know, and I think this

747
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 3: is doable in a way that doesn't explode the show out.

748
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 3: I want to know the connection between Harmony and mcgarby

749
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 3: because I think that is going to be very very interesting.

750
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: I mean, that is sadly the one you know, it's like,

751
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: that's the one conversation that if they are allowed to

752
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: have a five minute conversation on screen, then we know

753
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: everything about the show.

754
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe the writing's good enough to get around it,

755
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: but yeah.

756
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: My takeaway theory wise from this episode is, listen, we

757
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: saw the previous episode that Devin was like really struggling,

758
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: not really struggling with where to call Harmony was gonna

759
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: call her, and where Gobbi walked out and was like,

760
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: don't you dare call that woman. You're on your own

761
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: understandably right, And then then you know, Mark woke up

762
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: and we wondered what she would do, and clearly she

763
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: made the call but then she puts Mark on the

764
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: phone and says, we have a different idea.

765
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 4: I think a lot of it.

766
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: I do think that this call was significantly Mark's idea,

767
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: because I think whatever he has come to discover through reintegration,

768
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: he understands that.

769
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 4: He needs Cobel.

770
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 5: Now.

771
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was wondering if he's trying to draw her

772
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 3: back in and they're planning on taking Cabell as not

773
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: necessarily like a hostage, but holding her and trying to

774
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 3: get answers out of her. That was kind of the

775
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 3: feeling I got.

776
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: I think he knows obviously knows a lot more now

777
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: about the and has the full a fuller picture, and

778
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: I think he knows that Cobell in her position would

779
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: have much more of the picture, and maybe he sees

780
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: her actions differently to that end.

781
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 4: You know, we had been earlier.

782
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: In the season, not now, I've been talking about like

783
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: a milk Chick redemption arc. I do think it's that

784
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: we get. I don't think that's happening, but I do

785
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: think we get a Cobel redemption arc for the wrong reasons,

786
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: Like I think that she will help Mark, but probably

787
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: not for pure reasons, not fully pure reasons, but I

788
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: think there we're gonna get something like a Cobel redemption arc.

789
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 3: Okay here this is my bleakest possible ending, but I

790
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 3: do think it would hook people up. What if Cobell

791
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 3: somehow convinces Mark to essentially like go back in and

792
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 3: just like essentially take over her role as a manager,

793
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 3: to be able to be close to Jemma to kind

794
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 3: of and it's kind of about this systemic like what

795
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 3: will you accept if it works for you, Like if

796
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 3: you can get something you want out of this interesting

797
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 3: what will you do to other people? I don't think

798
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 3: they'll go there, but I do think it would be

799
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 3: an interesting hook. Obviously, then you know, sorry, right as Room,

800
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 3: I know I'm not part of you season three? You do?

801
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: Oh well, Mark's actually like a spy, a kind of

802
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: reverse Helena, and he wants to help everyone out. But

803
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 3: I think that could be a good hook on the

804
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 3: end where it seems like to get Jemma back, he's

805
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 3: willing to become part of the lumin system.

806
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: Do we think that Mark, in his reintegration, has discovered

807
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: that there are more any any Marks than he was

808
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: aware of, because there is that Yeah, there is that

809
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: thing from the credits, the earlier version of the credits

810
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: where Cobel is looking.

811
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 4: Down at all the little marks, and.

812
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: I would not be completely surprised if on reintegration Mark

813
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: discovered all these other pieces of himself in there.

814
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 6: There's also somebody did a rewatch of the first episode

815
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 6: for hints we may have missed, and there seems to

816
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 6: be this feeling that Mark is missing time in between

817
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 6: him going into the building and him appearing on the

818
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 6: lower floor, Like when he walks in, his boots are dry.

819
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 6: When he's taking them off before he goes down, they're

820
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 6: like covered and water. It seems to me that they

821
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 6: made such a big deal. What was that like episode

822
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 6: two where like the time was suddenly completely messed up

823
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 6: after he got reintegrated. So you kind of wonder, like, oh,

824
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 6: as he's getting further into his reintegration, will he discover

825
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 6: additional ania.

826
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 3: And that's the one that also would would make sense

827
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: because of how hard it was to reintegrate him and

828
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 3: how he was kind of the reintegration was so dangerous

829
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 3: because how do you reintegrate into like how do you

830
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 3: reintegrate if there's like multiple versions of you that have

831
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 3: been seven Yeah, where is the time. Okay, I think

832
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 3: you guys here and I think that is a good likely.

833
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 3: We were right theory for the last two episodes. I'm

834
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 3: saying it now.

835
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: On tomorrow's episode of Extra Vision, we're getting back into

836
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: the suit visiting our favorite Hell's Kitchen restaurant. In the

837
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: third episode of daredel Board again, that's it for this episode.

838
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, Thanks for joining us, Joelle.

839
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 3: Thank you, Joel, and goodbye from luman our sponsor.

840
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jasoncepcion and Rosie Knight

841
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

842
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

843
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 4: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

844
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay Wag.

845
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,439
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

846
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

847
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and

848
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator.