1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, own listeners, Wherever 6 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to 7 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: have you here. Back for another episode as we, of 8 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: course break down the psychology of our twenties. Today, let's 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: talk about something that I don't think I have ever 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: spoken about on the podcast before, having kids. Having babies. 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: Having children it might seem so far off for some 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: of us and so adult, but for other people it 13 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: is right around the corner. It is part of their 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: future two, five, ten year plan. And although I definitely 15 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: think we've passed the days when we were kind of 16 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: expected to have children by twenty two or twenty three, 17 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: it is definitely something that a lot of us start 18 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: considering in our twenties, whether children are part of our future, 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: whether maybe we want to be younger parents, or whether 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: we want to focus on our careers and wait. Regardless 21 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: of your kind of preferences, regardless of what you want 22 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: to do in your life. I do think that talking 23 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: about children as a possibility, thinking about their role in 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: our future is something that we really do need to 25 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: start thinking about during this decade, as adult and mature 26 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: as it seems. You know, I'm twenty four at the moment, 27 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: and I always, for the longest time, was convinced that 28 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,279 Speaker 1: I did not want kids. I didn't want a family 29 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: of my own. Especially when I was a teenager. I 30 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: had these very huge, exaggerated fantasies of like being the 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: archetype of the fun, drunk single art traveling around the world, 32 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: like collecting I was gonna say trophies to collecting trinkets, 33 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: you know, this whole fabulous vision. And people would always 34 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: tell me that I would change my mind. I really 35 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: resented that. I honestly still don't believe that everybody does 36 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: change their mind. But let me tell you something. I 37 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: turned twenty three, and it was like suddenly I was sure, 38 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: and I was sure that I wanted children, And it 39 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: was like something had clicked in my brain that I 40 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: wanted to be a mum, a mom someday, and it 41 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: really startled me, and for the first time it really 42 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: had me considering things like parenting, things like fertility, and 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: it brought a new lens to my health and who 44 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: I was dating. And of course, when that happened, I'd 45 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: turned to my friends about it because that is my 46 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: main source of wisdom, and so many of them had 47 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: experienced something similar. Some of my friends who had always 48 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: been very firm in the decision that they did not 49 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: want children, they remain firm. Others like me, had like 50 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: shifted entirely. And you know, it's like I turned twenty 51 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: four and suddenly I've had more conversations about egg freezing 52 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: than I have ever had before, and so many people 53 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: are talking to me about fertility or starting to really 54 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: care that their period is consistent, or about what they're 55 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: eating and their health, and I want to talk about it. 56 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: When do we really need to start thinking about kids? 57 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: Do we need to start thinking about it in our 58 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: twenties or at all? What are the factors that we 59 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: need to consider? What about when it comes to our 60 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: romantic life, the pressure to find somebody, Is it all 61 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: too adult too soon? And should we kind of preserve 62 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: our youth for as long as possible? You know, there 63 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: are so many questions that come up around this, and 64 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: it's so easy to kind of just like put it off. 65 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to make the argument for why thinking about 66 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: it is actually going to give you more, more freedom 67 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: and more choice than not thinking about it. And we 68 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: also heard from a few listeners who have children who 69 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: are expecting in their twenties about having you when they 70 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: were ready and what we can learn from their experiences 71 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to family and future planning. So, without 72 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: further ado, it's a much different episode today, but one 73 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: that I am so excited about. Let's get into it. 74 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: Having children is such a distinctively adult conversation, regardless of 75 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: where you are at in your twenties. It is still 76 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: so shocking to hear from my friends in their late 77 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: twenties or early thirties that they're expecting children, because it's 78 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: kind of like you've heard a strange fork in the road, 79 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: like an intersection of sorts where people's life paths split 80 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: and children, and I think also, you know, marriage to 81 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: some extent, but that is where the split occurs. Some 82 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: of us are still getting drunk on the weekends, some 83 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: of us don't have a dollar in savings, but there 84 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: are other people posting, you know, engagement announcements or getting 85 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: IVF or going to obgyn appointments. Everyone's path is super different, 86 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: but I think for many of us we are in 87 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: a few minds when it comes to whether it's even 88 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, the time to consider whether kids are part 89 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: of the plan, let alone start trying to have kids. 90 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: If we aren't sure, do we need to decide now 91 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: or can we? You know, it kind of feels like 92 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: even thinking about it pops the bubble a little bit. 93 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: It pops the bubble of being carefree and young, because 94 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: once you do start considering it, some really big things 95 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: come up, you know, especially not just in terms of 96 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: like do you want to start considering whether you should 97 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: have kids now, it's even the question of like do 98 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: I want to consider whether I want kids at all? 99 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: And when I might want to start. What comes up 100 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: with that is questions around like ethics and climate change 101 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: and recession and like the world that we would be 102 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: bringing children into. And it's almost like once you are like, yeah, 103 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: maybe I do want children, is that when you have 104 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: to start making a plan. Is that when we kind 105 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: of start to feel strapped to a timeline Because once 106 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: we start thinking about kids, there is this acknowledgment that 107 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: there is a bit of a to do list that 108 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: comes with that. You know, you have to find a 109 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: suitable partner or most people would prefer to have a 110 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: partner with them. To raise a child, you have to 111 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: kind of get your finances sorted, get your life sorted, 112 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: before a window closes. And for women, obviously that window 113 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: is our biological clock. And you know, typically I really 114 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: hate that phrase because it very much connotes that like 115 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: when the clock hits zero, we expire or we are 116 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: past our worth, that we've run out of time, you know, 117 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: as if our lives don't continue whether we have children 118 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: or not. But that is what we know it colloquially. 119 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: And we also know that there is like a deadline 120 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: for reproduction. Not to make it sound so clinical, but 121 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: around you know, thirty to thirty five, our ability to 122 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: have children declines and it continues on that kind of plane. 123 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: It continues to decline before menopause. So knowing that does 124 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: that change how we live our twenties, even if we 125 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: don't want to start having kids to our thirties, knowing 126 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: that it might. 127 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: Be more difficult. And the thing that I often hear 128 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: from people is like, if children are a certainty in 129 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: my life plan, why not do it in my twenties 130 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: because there is a greater chance that I can have 131 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: children naturally, there's a greater chance that I'll be around longer, 132 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: and I might have more of that support system in 133 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 2: my parents, in my grandparents even you know, some of 134 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: us are so lucky to still have you know, both 135 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: sets of grandparents alive. I can bounce back from a 136 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 2: career break easier. Like, there are a lot of pros, 137 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: but there are also a lot of cons, right, the 138 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: loss of freedom, the quick change in life trajectory compared 139 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: to all of our friends. The money, that's a huge one, 140 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: the money. Children are so expensive, but also it's this 141 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: capacity and this lifestyle that we would be giving up, 142 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: so that I think is the thing that really contributes 143 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 2: to the decision to have kids in our twenties, or 144 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 2: to even consider it, because even if you do want 145 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: to have kids eventually in your thirties, there is kind 146 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: of an acknowledgment that there is a chapter that will 147 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: close when that decision is made. And of course there 148 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 2: is a chapter for everything, but I think the chapter 149 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 2: that you are in without children is one of immense freedom. 150 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: It's being able to go out for drinks or out 151 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: for dinner with your friends any night of the week. 152 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 2: It's you know, coming home when you feel like it. 153 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: It is having the freedom to travel where and when 154 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 2: you would like it, is having the freedom to sleep 155 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 2: in or you know, to just actually be in control 156 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: of your life. And there is a brief window where 157 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: we truly get that after we turn eighteen to when 158 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: we might you know, have kids. Obviously, if you don't 159 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: end up having kids, you literally you win the lot 160 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: or you get to have that freedom for the rest 161 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: of your life. Congratulations. But you know, if you want 162 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 2: to have kids at some point, like you're likely going 163 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: to want to start trying before you're like forty, So 164 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 2: that's like twenty two years to get it all out 165 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 2: of your system, to travel where you want, to do 166 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: what you want. Like maybe Max, you might want to 167 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: start trying early. You might not want to have like 168 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 2: a geriatric pregnancy when you like, I'm obviously spiraling here. 169 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 2: But it's the case that when you start thinking about it, 170 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,599 Speaker 2: you start thinking about how much this decision might impact 171 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: other areas of your life. It's not just around like, yeah, 172 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: I want to have a baby, it's work decisions. Will 173 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: you be able to have a career break. Do you 174 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 2: want to climb the corporate ladder or not? It's travel 175 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: plans do I want to Are the places that I 176 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to go with kids that I want 177 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: to go? Now? Are there experiences that I want to 178 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: have that I know are going to become more difficult? 179 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: Like solo traveling? You obviously can't solo travel if you 180 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 2: have a baby, because the baby's got to be there, 181 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: big factor. And then dating, dating, do you like how 182 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: serious are you going to get how quickly? And I 183 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 2: think that when you have this acknowledgment of like, Okay, no, 184 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 2: eventually I do want kids, and I know that it 185 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: might be easier to try like in my late twenties 186 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: or my early thirties, it might put a lot more 187 00:10:54,960 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: pressure on the people that you are romantically interested in. 188 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: So I was speaking to a friend about this very 189 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: component the other day. And obviously we are, you know, 190 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 2: in a day and age where it's not like a 191 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: man and woman need to like get together at twenty 192 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: two and have babies by twenty five otherwise like that's it, 193 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: You're not going to reproduce. There are so many other options. 194 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: There is IVF, there is adoption, there is sorrogacy, so 195 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 2: many things, but you know, sometimes the dream is to 196 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 2: have somebody to do it all with, to have a 197 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: partner to help raise your child, especially a partner that 198 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: we love. That can feel so special, but it also 199 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: ups the stakes if you haven't already kind of found 200 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: that person and you're getting older, you're not just facing 201 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: the stigma of a society that puts romantic love on 202 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: a pedestal and pities singleness, but it's also really confronting 203 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: to realize that the key to unlocking your life plan 204 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 2: rests in a stranger that you're yet to meet. And 205 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: it's kind of like, how do you rush something that 206 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: isn't always up to you? How do you tick this 207 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: off your list to make it sound super super clinical? 208 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: And I was speaking to a friend about that and 209 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 2: how she is now in her kind of like early thirties, 210 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 2: and how stressful it is that it's no longer just 211 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: about finding a connection, because yes, of course that obviously 212 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: is the most important thing, but it's also about making 213 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: sure that you're on the same page. She said to me, 214 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: She was like, when I decided that yes, I did 215 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: want kids, it wasn't about that I wanted kids in 216 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: my twenties, I just wanted them. Eventually everything else became 217 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: a lot more serious, and she was like, I realized 218 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: that I'm getting to an age where I don't have 219 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: the luxury of getting to know you, like I don't 220 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: have the luxury of like, let's figure it out. It 221 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: was like, no, if I'm going to spend a year 222 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: dating year, a couple of years, I want to know 223 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: that we are on the same page about kids or 224 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 2: about family, about values, and the timeline for things really shifts. 225 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: Not that you are rushing it, hopefully you are not 226 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 2: rushing it, but it's more that there is a directness 227 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 2: and an intentionality, and it's more like you have to 228 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: make calls about big things like kids earlier on and 229 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: make sure that you're on the same page. And when 230 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: you're nineteen or twenty two, you know you kind of 231 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 2: have time to have your doubts. You can date people 232 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 2: that you probably don't think is going to be the 233 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: one and it's not going to really hurt your long 234 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: term chances of creating the dream life with the kids 235 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: or without the kids. You can have those kind of 236 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: fairy tale conversations about the future without needing to enact 237 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: plans right away, but that changes the order you get 238 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 2: and it definitely is probably going to give you a 239 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 2: fairly large dose of milestone anxiety if you kind of 240 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 2: wake up to the conclusion that children are part of 241 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 2: your life plan and that part of getting there is 242 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 2: finding somebody and you haven't done that yet. And the 243 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: reason I say milestone anxiety specifically is because that really 244 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 2: derives from a sense that you are not where you 245 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: want to be in life or where you should be. 246 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: It can still feel like there is this like key 247 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: ingredient that you are missing. And although milestone anxiety is 248 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: typically applied to things like Korea or financial goals, when 249 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: it does come to relationships, I think it's a lot 250 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 2: more complicated because it's not like there is a formula 251 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 2: for success or a correlation between effort and output. It 252 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: is so influenced by things like chance and timing and 253 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: if you believe in it, fate. So I think it's 254 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: really hard to not feel in control of something so 255 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: significant for the life you dream of. And even when 256 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: I think everything goes according to plan right, even if 257 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: you are, you know you've assessed your emotional preparedness, you've 258 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: assessed your financial preparedness, your social preparedness, the strength of 259 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: your relationship. You are in a relationship, you're both ready 260 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: to have kids, you know, and you've been like, yeah, 261 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: to start in my twenties. I mean, this is what 262 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: I want. I want to be a younger parent. This 263 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: is just what feels right for me. Sometimes it doesn't 264 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: always work out the way that we want it. You 265 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: can be absolutely sure of your decision, and life can 266 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: still throw you curveballs. And a big one that I 267 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: think a lot of us in our early twenties in 268 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: particular don't think about, is fertility, not just like the 269 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 2: biological clock, but also kind of whether we're able to 270 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: even have kids, the state of all those other systems. 271 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 2: This is just not something that we think about when 272 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: we are twenty or twenty one. But the older you get, 273 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 2: you start to hear stories. One of the stories was 274 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: something that it's not a story, it's somebody's, you know, 275 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: lived experience. The experiences of a friend of mine who 276 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: I think really woke me up to this. A couple 277 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: of years ago. She started having like these really weird 278 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: symptoms and problems with like her period and with other things, 279 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: and she went to the doctor, and I'm not going 280 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: to disclose exactly what she had what happened, but basically 281 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: they said to her that her chances of having like 282 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: a natural pregnancy were incredibly low, and that if she 283 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 2: and her partner wanted to have kids, they had to 284 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: kind of start trying before she was like twenty eight 285 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: twenty nine, Like she had to kind of get a 286 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 2: wriggle on. That was essentially what the doctor suggested. This 287 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 2: was such a wake up call for her and for 288 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 2: I would say the people around her as well, where 289 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: we were kind of all in this like bubble of like, yeah, 290 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: let's just like fuck around and find out like we're 291 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 2: having fun. We're focused on like graduating UNI and like yay, 292 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: like dating around and like partying. And then it was 293 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: suddenly like, oh wait, I actually, you know, I think 294 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: about my future only as my career, and I think 295 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: about my future only it's like oh, meeting the love 296 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: of my life and like getting ahead and like buying 297 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: a house. But it's like no, and there is a 298 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: part of this that is happening right now, my fertility, 299 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: that I hadn't even considered. And it really raised the 300 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: question of is it better to be prepared now or 301 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: to live in blissful ignorance. Is it worth bursting the 302 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: bubble of not knowing and almost immediately fast forwarding your 303 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 2: timeline if you do find out the news that she 304 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: found out, which is that it might actually end up 305 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: being really hard if she doesn't start now. Or is 306 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: it just like better to just get to that problem 307 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: when you get to it. Here's the thing. If you've 308 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 2: always known that you want to be a parent, and 309 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 2: that is a huge facet of your identity and your 310 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: goals and your future, I do think that it's worth 311 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 2: just knowing in your twenties if that is something that 312 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: is possible for you, even if you don't feel responsible yet. 313 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: Knowledge is power, especially as all the science starts to improve. 314 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 2: There was this episode of New Girl that I watched 315 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 2: a while back in which like if you've watched a 316 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 2: New Girl, like CEC goes in and like Jess and 317 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 2: CC the go in and they assess like their ability 318 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 2: to have children, and it's like meant to be this 319 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: fun thing, you know, like oh like goofy guga, Like 320 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 2: you know when you like take a pregnancy test and 321 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 2: like you know it's gonna be negative and you know 322 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: you see those moviees where ends up positive like it 323 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: was just meant to be. It's very much like that 324 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: meant to be, like a funny thing, and cec it 325 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 2: turns out like has very poor fertility and is like 326 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 2: really Una will be unable to like conceive naturally. And 327 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: in that scene she kind of talks about wishing that 328 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: she had a magical wand to like go back to 329 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: early twenties and like tell herself, like be a little 330 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 2: bit more serious. So even if it does seem weird 331 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: to be thinking about it now, and even if it 332 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 2: does seem pretty intense intense, I think, especially if you're 333 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 2: a woman, see you know, see this this questioning around 334 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: your fertility and your future capacity or desire to have 335 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 2: children as an investment in your health, the same way 336 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: that you want to live a long, healthy life, the 337 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 2: same way that you want to have a really successful career, 338 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 2: And so you are making investments in that right now. 339 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: If you do want kids, it's important to be thinking 340 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:19,239 Speaker 2: about it sooner rather than later. And I think what 341 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 2: I began to realize was that the pressure doesn't increase, 342 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: but is reduced by being able to make future decisions 343 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 2: with full information that might actually derive from a decision 344 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 2: that you make right now. That is kind of like 345 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: the appeal of egg phrasing, right, Like, I've been reading 346 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 2: so much stuff about egg phrasing recently. The premise is 347 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 2: that you kind of store your good DNA from when 348 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 2: you're like in your early mid thirty twenties, sorry for 349 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 2: like later, when you're in like your thirties or maybe 350 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: even your forties, so that it's kind of like insurance 351 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 2: you have time you can delay the inevitable. It brings 352 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 2: control back into the situation, even if, like you end 353 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 2: up not using those eggs, even if like it's not 354 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: something that you end up deciding to actually know, like 355 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: I don't want kids, like the climate crisis is too terrible. 356 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: I just never met the right person, Like I'm happy 357 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: without them. It is the sense that, like, the decisions 358 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 2: you make now give you the freedom in the future. 359 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: It's like science has allowed us to control something we 360 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 2: were never able to control before, which is time and biology. 361 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 2: So that is kind of my argument for why I 362 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 2: think it's important to firstly consider whether you even want 363 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 2: kids in your twenties and not in your twenties, Like 364 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 2: in your twenties, consider whether you want kids in the future. 365 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: That's probably a better way to put it, because the 366 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 2: decisions that you make around your health and your fertility 367 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 2: now it might actually come back to help you when 368 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 2: you do decide in your thirties or forties, and if 369 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 2: you don't want kids, like great, then you can, you know, 370 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: start making a plan to live your life more the 371 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: way that you want it to. And I think the 372 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: other component is, like, it's also important to think about 373 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: whether you do want to have kids in your twenties right, 374 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: whether like this is a better time, whether you like 375 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 2: my friend's example, the knowledge that maybe it will get 376 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: harder as you get as you age, and the older 377 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 2: that you get, it's better to start in this moment. 378 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: So I also wanted to hear from you guys, people 379 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 2: who chose to have kids in their twenties, what they 380 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: would want us to know, whether you're just considering, whether 381 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 2: you're decided, or you're acting on it, stay with us 382 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: for more after the break. There is obviously a perspective 383 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 2: to this that I can't bring I don't have kids 384 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: in as much as you know, I was speaking about 385 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 2: this weird maternal urge that suddenly popped up out of 386 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 2: nowhere in the last year. I really don't plan on 387 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 2: it for the next like five to ten years. But 388 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 2: I wanted to hear from people who have thought about 389 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 2: it a lot, especially people in their twenties who have 390 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 2: decided to have children, perhaps earlier than what most of 391 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: us would expect in this day and age, or people 392 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 2: who have had to make big decisions about fertility in 393 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 2: their twenties that feel really adult and feel like they 394 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 2: are something that should have you know, that they could 395 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 2: have delayed but then couldn't. So I saw this actually 396 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: really funny article before I read this first thing that 397 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 2: having children in your twenties is now like punk, which 398 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 2: is so funny, and that's kind of like, you know 399 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 2: what I do. I kind of get it, because yet again, 400 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 2: when I hear about people having kids in their twenties, 401 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 2: it's not that I feel any certain way about it. 402 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh, that's different, when actually it's not. 403 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: Really it's not. So I do want to hear about it. 404 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 2: I do want to hear from people about it, about 405 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 2: their decision, their timeline when they started thinking about things, 406 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: and their fears. So here's the first person that messaged us, 407 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 2: and I really love her perspective. I always knew I 408 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 2: wanted to be a parent, and had my baby girl 409 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 2: at twenty three. I faced a lot of stigma. She 410 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 2: was an accident. Oh my god, sidebar, Why would you 411 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 2: ever say that to somebody? That is so freaking rude. Anyhow, 412 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 2: back to this person, I was facing me that she 413 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 2: was an accident, when actually I'd been together with my 414 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: now husband since we were eighteen and it was part 415 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 2: of our plan. I still lost friends who didn't get 416 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 2: it and had people judge me. But she is now five, 417 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 2: and I like knowing that she will be twenty when 418 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 2: I'm forty three, and I could be a young parent 419 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: as she grows up and keep up with her. See 420 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 2: that is the kind of perspective that I think we 421 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 2: don't hear too often, people who you know had kids young, 422 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 2: and how that is actually like a really valuable thing 423 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 2: for them. I think a lot of the time, and 424 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: I will speak for myself here, you see people who 425 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 2: have had children young and you're like, well, that's a 426 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 2: bit different, and you think about what they might be 427 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 2: missing out, because that wouldn't be your choice. But as 428 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,239 Speaker 2: this person said, like, no she didn't Yes, she may 429 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 2: have missed out in the sense that she lost friends 430 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 2: that sound like they were never really her friends, but 431 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 2: she gained so much. And I think when you were 432 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: clear that is going to be part of your plan, 433 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: and when you have really considered it and thought about it, 434 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 2: you can actually choose when it's going to work best 435 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: for you. And for her, it sounded like when she 436 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 2: was younger, that was really what was aligned with how 437 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 2: she wanted to raise her child, and she's doing it. 438 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: So I really liked that input. I thought that was 439 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 2: really a perspective, a side of things that we don't 440 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: always hear. Here is another person who wrote in I 441 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 2: found out that I had half a uterus when I 442 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 2: was twenty one, and that just put everything into perspective 443 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: then and there. It felt like I aged out of 444 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 2: my friend group immediately, and no one could understand how 445 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: my life felt different, because suddenly I was thinking about 446 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: decisions they didn't have to make for years. Well that 447 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: was three years ago. I still don't have a partner, 448 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 2: but I feel more at peace with the fact that 449 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 2: I'll be okay if it doesn't work out because I 450 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: had time and more time to consider whether this was 451 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 2: even for me. I'm glad I got to be okay 452 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 2: with what could happen and not be really excited about 453 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: it when I was thirty and married, then find out 454 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: the hard way. Yes, it was hard, but now I 455 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 2: know more about my values and priorities than I did 456 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 2: before I found out about my uterus. Why didn't I 457 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 2: say it like that, my uterus? Thank you? Thank you 458 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 2: for sharing. It really comes back to that point. You know, 459 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 2: kids aren't everything. At the end of the day. You 460 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 2: don't need to reproduce to have a purpose. But maybe 461 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: to paraphrase what you're saying, it seems like at the 462 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 2: end of the day, it's about having choice. That's what 463 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 2: feels meaningful here. And choice also comes from knowledge and 464 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 2: knowing more in your twenties, even if it might up 465 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 2: the stakes, actually lets you have time to consider things 466 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 2: and to consider what you want in long term and 467 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: the alternatives to that ultimate choice. Let's hear from one 468 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: more person. Hi, I am so glad that you were 469 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: talking about this, because I feel like it is so 470 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: weird amongst my group when I bring this up. People 471 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 2: want to stay young. Thinking about kids feels old. I 472 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 2: made the decision to freeze my eggs through work because 473 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: I am twenty eight. I have a boyfriend slash life partner, 474 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: but we haven't decided whether we want to have children yet, 475 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 2: although we have definitely thought about it. Egg freezing just 476 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 2: took the stress away and work paid for it. For 477 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: people thinking about it, it does put a lot of 478 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: strain on your body and it's costly. So know that. 479 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 2: Going in, some part of me thought that if I 480 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: went through that, I must know that I want kids, 481 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 2: because otherwise why would I do it. Yes, it is 482 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: important to think about kids in your twenties as a hypothetical, 483 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: but I want to stress that you do not. I 484 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: want to stress that you do have more time than 485 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: you think. My mom had me at thirty eight, back 486 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: then she was so old. She told me she was 487 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: never worried about it though, because she loved her life 488 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 2: and she would have had a full and wonderful life 489 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 2: whether I came around or not. And I love that philosophy. 490 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 2: It is a big decision, but you can wait until 491 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 2: you're thirty eight or older and still be successful. Okay, Sorry, 492 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 2: I feel like I really fell over my words there. 493 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 2: I really love this point and I think this is 494 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 2: a really good one to end on though, because it 495 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 2: brings some nuance. As this person said, you know, she 496 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 2: still made a huge decision about her fertility and she 497 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 2: didn't know. But you do have time. Kids aren't everything. 498 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 2: You can change your mind. You can start late. And 499 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 2: I think it's a good way to finish us up 500 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 2: is to really articulate and express that science is coming 501 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: a long way, like this episode was not to sit 502 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: down and stress us all out about you know, go 503 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: and get a scan right now, Go and find out 504 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 2: if you can have kids, like start on your family 505 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 2: planning journey as young as possible, because that does sound 506 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 2: very like the Handmaid's Tale. I understand it. But I 507 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: think that the whole philosophy that underlies this whole episode 508 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 2: is that more information equals more choice. And if we 509 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 2: think about retirement in our twenties, if you think about 510 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 2: our dream jobs in our twenties, if we think about 511 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 2: finding the love of our life in our twenties, all 512 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 2: these big things, right, we should you know, all these 513 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 2: big things that are the ingredients for our life plan 514 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 2: and are the ingredients for our five and ten year plan. 515 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 2: We should also be thinking about children, and if you 516 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 2: don't want them, that is honestly so, like I don't 517 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 2: feel like I need to say that, but yes, to 518 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 2: stress it all more time. If you don't want them, great, 519 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: like you come to that decision, You come to that conclusion, 520 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 2: and yes you can change your mind. But it's also like, 521 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 2: if you do want kids, there are factors that are 522 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: important to consider during this decade, whether that is your 523 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: dating choices, whether that is your health that we have 524 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 2: more power by thinking about earlier. So I do hope 525 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: that this episode has made you think or has just 526 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 2: been entertaining, has helped you learn something. Thank you so 527 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 2: much to the people who wrote in with their perspectives 528 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 2: and their life experience. It was just something really that 529 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: I've been thinking about a lot and I was interested 530 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: to talk about. I would love to hear what you 531 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 2: guys think. If you have a story, if you have 532 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 2: an opinion, something else that you want to say, please 533 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: dm me on Instagram at that Psychology podcast. I would 534 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 2: love to hear from you. And if there's somebody else 535 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: you think would be interested in this episode who wants 536 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: to hear it, please feel free to send it to them. 537 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 2: Make sure you leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 538 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: wherever you're listening right now and that you're following along 539 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 2: for future episodes, And until next time, stay safe, be kind, 540 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 2: and be gentle to yourself, and we'll talk soon.