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Now here's 10 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeart Radio 11 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norri with you. 12 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: Let me tell you about our special guest tonight. Kenneth 13 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: Johnson has created, written, directed, produced dozens of films and 14 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: incredible Emmy Award winning television shows, including The Bionic Woman, 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: The Incredible Hulk, Alien Nation, his original Landmark series V 16 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: of course, he produced The Six Million Dollar Man, and 17 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: here he is to talk about also his latest work, 18 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: The Darwin Variant, which is not a fictional book, but 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: it's got a lot of overtones to it. Kenneth, welcome 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: back to the program. Thanks very much, George. It says 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: a light to be back. And do please feel free 22 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: to call me Kenny. Okay, my dad was Kenneth Senior, 23 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: and so as a kid, I was always Kenny. And 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: uh and now all of my friends and cast and 25 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: crew always call me that, at least into my face, 26 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: you know. And I got to tell you what kind 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: of an honor it is to talk with you, because 28 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: I have watched your television shows not knowing who you 29 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: were then. Uh and and my my gosh, kid, just 30 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: a great clever job that you've done. Thank you so much, George. Well, 31 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: it's an honor to talk to you two. You're something 32 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: of a legend and radio so sometimes when when when 33 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: you you were the producer of the six Million Dollar 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: Man and then you spun off the Bionic Woman, tell 35 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: me about that that evolution, Yeah, it was. It was 36 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: very interesting when I I had had a fair career 37 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: back in New York as a producer, director and uh, 38 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: never a writer, and I never thought I was very 39 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: good as a writer. Um. And shortly after that I 40 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: ended up at the Mike Douglas Show for a while, 41 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: which is a whole separate story we can talk about 42 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: because it was quite an amazing experience. And uh and 43 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: when I but I had always wanted to be in 44 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: motion pictures and do film work. And I had studied 45 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: at the at Carnegie Mellon the drama department there, which 46 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: was a theater school. There was no film or goodness, 47 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: gracious note, television. They really were very snooty about it. Uh. 48 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: And I can tell you a story also too, about 49 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: Rod Serling came to visit us one day when I 50 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: was at Carnegie. But when I finally after having done 51 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: the Douglas Show pretty successfully, I was executive producer and 52 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: it was the biggest talk show and huge, and I 53 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: came to Hollywood and said, okay, here, I am ready 54 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: to make movies. And Hollywood said, now you're a talk 55 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 1: show producer, you know? And uh uh and I said 56 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: I had to start all over again, George. Uh And 57 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: And I was literally sleeping on the on the on 58 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: the cow of my pal Steve Bocho, who had been 59 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: at Carnegie with me and had come out to California 60 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: before me and had gotten his foot in the door 61 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: as a writer, fledgling writer at Universal. Uh And Steve said, Kenny, 62 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: if you're write you have a better chance because actors 63 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: can do bit parts and work their way up. Writers 64 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: can write spec scripts until hopefully somebody buy something. But 65 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: if you're director, they either give you the movie to 66 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: direct or they don't, and until you've done it for 67 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: somebody else, they don't. You know, so I said, but Steve, Mike, 68 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: I can't write. I'm not a writer. And you see, 69 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: it's not hard. He said that you just stare at 70 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: a blank sheet of paper until beats of blood appear 71 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: on your forehead. And and George, that's what it was 72 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: like for me. Writing was hard. But I started writing 73 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: and discovered, oh well, I guess I can write a 74 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: little bit, and became a great writer of unproduced screenplays. 75 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: UM that we kept trying to get made and UH, 76 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: and Steve handed one to go to a guy named 77 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: Harve Bennett who was a big executive producer at Universal 78 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: who was doing mini series like rich Man, poor Man 79 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: and other things like that. But he also had this 80 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: young show, All the six Million Dollar Man, UH, and 81 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: they were in their first full season. It had started 82 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: as a midseason replacement, UH, and they were really sort 83 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: of desperate for scripts and ideas, and Harve read one 84 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: of the spec scripts that I wrote for a feature 85 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: and he really liked it. He said, I can't help 86 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: you get the movie made, but how about you bring 87 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: me some ideas for six mill? Uh? And I sat 88 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: down with him and I said, well, the obvious thing 89 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: to do is the Bride of Frankenstein. And he said, 90 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: what do you mean? And I said, well, you've got 91 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: this guy that's essentially sort of a monster. I mean, 92 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: he's got these arms and legs that aren't his and 93 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: his eyes and you know, I said, shouldn't there be 94 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: a mate for him? Shouldn't there be a bionic woman? 95 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: And Haver liked that idea and uh and asked me 96 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: to to write it, which I did very quickly. I 97 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: hadn't I hadn't made any money all that year because 98 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: I spent the whole year writing trying to get something 99 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: done in the Santa Monica library. Uh and uh. And 100 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: I wrote the script and Harve and Freddie Silverman, who 101 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: was running ABC, loved it. Uh. And they said, but 102 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: it's it's really too dense, that there's so much story. 103 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: And I said, well, har have I told you, but 104 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: that's you know, what do you want me to take out? 105 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: And he said, no, we don't want you to take 106 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: anything out. We want you to make it longer. I said, 107 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: but you only got a one hour show, and he said, no, 108 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: this is going to be a two parter. It was 109 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: the first time anybody had done a two parter on 110 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: an episodic television show. And so I said, okay, that's great. 111 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: Do I get paid again? You know? And and I did. Uh. 112 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: He said yes, of course. And so I took another 113 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: week or two and wrote the other half of it, 114 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: and uh. And in the course of it, Harv and 115 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: I really hit it off as as friends. And he 116 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: invited me to become a producer writer on the six 117 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: million dollar man um and I said, you know, har 118 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: I'm really flattered and and but I producing is kind 119 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: of a pain in the neck. Can I just write 120 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: and direct for you? Because that's what I really loved 121 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: the most is being on the set with my cast 122 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: and crew and I and he said, listen, Kenny, let 123 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: me explain how it works in television. In television, the 124 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: producer hires the writer, and the producer hires the director. 125 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: And I said, I get it hard. I'll take that 126 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: job exactly, George, I mean, please, you know. And so 127 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: that's what we did and uh. And in the middle 128 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: of me beginning to produce a six million dollar man, 129 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: the Bionic Woman episodes came on and took the sixth 130 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: mill into the top ten for the first time. The 131 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: ratings just shot up like lightning and uh. And of 132 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: course when that happens, immediately this the network said, well, 133 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: we should spend it off into our separate show, you know, 134 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: and uh, which I did. It was not an easy 135 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: thing to do because they had had me kill off 136 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: my Bionic Woman in the original two parts. I had said, 137 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: the guys, this is a mistake. Let me my first 138 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: couple of dress of the script. She was left in 139 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: a cryogenic what are you know, mumbo jumbo, right, so 140 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: I could bring her back if they needed her. And 141 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: they said, no, no, no, we want to do love story. 142 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: We want we want the hero and to die and 143 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: the heroes of suffering. I said, okay, so she was dead. 144 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: And now suddenly the the they started getting letters from 145 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: people all over the country, particularly one from the head 146 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: of the Boston University psychology department, who said, how dare 147 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: you guys create this wonderful female archetype this in this 148 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: this empowered woman and just throw it away. Yeah, And well, 149 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: at the same time they were getting those letters, they 150 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: were really taking a look at the numbers, at the ratings, 151 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, and they said, yeah, Kenny, why did you 152 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: kill her off? Anyway, that was a stupid idea, and 153 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: so they said bring her back. Oh, sure, So we 154 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: brought her back and uh and in such a way 155 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: that she did not remember that she had been about 156 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: to marry Steve Austin. So it was great the drama 157 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: for our hero on that show. How did you find 158 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: Lindsay Wagner for the Bionic Woman? Well, Harve and I 159 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: were very It was interesting because again Harven invited me 160 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: right in to the process from the very beginning. I 161 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: mean normally in TV, a writer writes and and they 162 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: say thanks a lot and go away. Harv was exactly 163 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: the opposite. He drew me into the process. Uh. And 164 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: we we looked at a lot of actresses, a lot 165 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: of film and actresses. We looked at Stephanie Power as 166 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: I remember, whom I later used in one of the 167 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: big Foot episodes. We looked at Sally Field, uh and um. 168 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: But there was there was this contract player for Universal 169 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: named Lindsay Wagner who had done the Paper Chase and 170 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: was quite an interesting lady. She had done a pilot 171 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: for my friend Steve, Steve Cantell, whom BOCO introduced me 172 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: to a universal. I remember seeing he did like silk Stocking. Well, yeah, 173 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: I think this was when I first met Steve. He 174 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: was a story editor on Adam twelve, the Old cop Show, 175 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: and he was he was like Steve Bocco. They were 176 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: both just starting out, because this was long before a 177 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: Boco created Hill Street Blues and l A Law and 178 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: yepd Blue and Yet but Lindsay had done the pilot 179 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: for The Rockford Files as a guest star, and Harve 180 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: and I look her at her on the screen and said, wow, 181 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: she is really an interesting actress. First of all, she's 182 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: not Hollywood beautiful. She looks like the girl next door, 183 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: which is what we were really looking for. Uh and 184 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: and a real person. But also Lindsay had a quality 185 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: George that was unique. Lindsay had a tremendous ability to 186 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: to be spontaneous, to make you feel like she was 187 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: making it up as she went along, you know. And 188 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: uh and that was the thing that really really captivated 189 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: me the most that she could absolutely mumble and fumble 190 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: and stumble, not because she didn't know the lines, but 191 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,479 Speaker 1: because she was making it her own, you know. And uh, 192 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: and that's that's what she did. And she came on 193 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: board and uh and was just hit the ball out 194 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: of the park. She was so so good and uh 195 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: and it was no wonder that the Universal in ABC 196 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: wanted to bring her out on her own show, and um, 197 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: so we did, and it was it was. It was 198 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: a bit challenging because you know, doing a one hour 199 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: episodic television show George's is like living in a garbage 200 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: disposal anyway. Uh. Doing a movie, you have nine months 201 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: to make two hours of film. Doing an episodic television 202 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: show in those days, yeah, twenty two hours of film 203 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: in the same nine months. And uh, and here I 204 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: was not only doing six Milks, but I was also producing, 205 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: executive producing, and writing The Bionic Woman at the same time. 206 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: And it was it was great and it was a 207 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: huge amount of fun and I and I had it 208 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: was like it was a bit like graduate school with 209 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: pay also, you know, there I was the youngest producer, 210 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: writer director on the Universal lot and by the way, 211 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: the lowest paid of course. And um, but I didn't 212 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: have any I wasn't having any time to direct because 213 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: I was so busy, you know, when you're the admiral 214 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: and making sure the fleet is sailing in the right direction, 215 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: and you've got shows that are prepping, that are writing, 216 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: that are posting, and you don't have any time to 217 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: be away on the set for three weeks. And so 218 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: it was I finally said, look, guys, I let me 219 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: just let go of six million dollar man. I will 220 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: make less money, but that's not what's important to me. 221 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: Uh and I. So we did that, and I stayed 222 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: with my baby, which was which was Bionic and u um, 223 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: and we had a tremendous time. I mean for a while, 224 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: I had the number one and number three shows in 225 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: the ratings and that's amazing, it really is. Then you 226 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: moved a Bionic lasted what about three seasons? Yeah, it was. Yeah, 227 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: I lasted only a season and a half on it. Um. 228 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: Lindsay kun into some dark times. She was. She was 229 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: in a strange and bad marriage. She had gone from 230 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: from being totally unrecognizable to to the that she tried 231 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: to take her niece to Disneyland once and she couldn't 232 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: get in the front gate because as soon as people 233 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: saw her, she was and and so she was a 234 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: sort of an overnight star in the first season. She 235 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: she really hung onto it all and managed to keep 236 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: it all together. But as so often happens, you know, 237 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: when you when you have a lot of new best 238 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: friends and uh, and some of her best friends did 239 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: not have her best interest at heart and uh, and 240 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: she was really sort of heading in a in a 241 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: dark direction and uh. And I was one of the 242 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: few people, if maybe the only one, who was trying 243 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: to talk straight to her and uh and be honest. 244 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: And you know, the reason that Michael Jackson died was 245 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: because when you're a star, people don't say no to you, 246 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: because if they do say no to you, they're no 247 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: longer you know. They think they're going to get caught 248 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: off exactly exactly, you know. And I and I kept 249 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: trying to say, honey, you're going in the wrong direction. 250 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: And and finally, uh, we was just very clear that 251 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: that it couldn't it was not going to work. And 252 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: I went to Frank Price, who was then running Universal, 253 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: and said, look, Frank, I think this is a train 254 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: that's headed for a cliff and I'd really rather get 255 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: off now listen to more Coast to Coast AM every 256 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go to Coast 257 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more