1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Wellness sun Mass. I'm doctor Nicole Safire, and 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: today we're pulling back the curtain on something that affects 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: every American family. Mine, yours, all of us, the food 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: on our plates. For decades, we were told Big Tobacco 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: was the villain, and it took us decades to kind 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: of get rid of them. Well, we didn't really get 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: rid of them. They're still around. What if I told 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: you the same corporate playbook, the same executives, the same 9 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: manipulation tactics, the same addiction science quietly migrated from big 10 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: tobacco into big food. My guest today Patrick and Ashley 11 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: Sullivan expose exactly how big Tobacco helped engineer modern big food, 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: designing ultra process products to hijack our brain chemistry, distort 13 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: public policy, and keep consumers pooked. Now, this isn't about 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: personal willpower. It's about corporate strategy, regulatory capture, and the 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: health crisis unfolding in plain sight. Let's talk about it. 16 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: We have a beautiful couple, Patrick and as Actually Sullivan. 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: They are the MAHA inspired filmmakers behind a brand new 18 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: documentary called Breaking Big Food, now streaming on Apple TV 19 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: and Amazon Prime and I am so excited for this 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: conversation because you guys uncovered a lot in this documentary, right. 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: We sure did. It was a very eye opening experience 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: for us, right Patrick. 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the full title Breaking Big Food, how 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 3: the American food system went rotten, and how it's being revived. 25 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about it. First of all, 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: your background, what even made you want to do this? 27 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 3: Well, in twenty fourteen, I got a thyroid cancer diagnosis 28 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: and decided to go at that time the traditional route 29 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 3: of getting a thyroid ectomy, having the cancer removed, and 30 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: quite frankl Nicole, it was so stressful hearing the words 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: you have cancer that after the surgery, Ashley and I 32 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 3: really kind of buried that for a while. And you know, Frankly, 33 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 3: I think we just didn't know enough about food labels 34 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 3: and ingredients and about the environmental toxins that were out 35 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 3: there that when we began to research this film, and 36 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 3: really the inspiration came from hearing Calli Means speak at 37 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: a conference in the summer of twenty twenty four He 38 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: and his sister, doctor Casey Means, had just published the 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: book Good Energy, and Ashley and I felt like that's 40 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 3: it like barely hit for us. Yeah, the pieces of 41 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: how we got here in the first place. And as 42 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: a result, we felt like we wanted to help amplify 43 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 3: that message, and that turned into pitching them the idea 44 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 3: of this documentary, and Calli was like, let's do it. 45 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: I'm all in. 46 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: That's great. So when you started the documentary, tell me 47 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: some about the big things that you uncovered. 48 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: I think the biggest shocking thing that we uncovered was 49 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: really the fact that the cigarette companies purchased the food companies. Patrick, 50 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: what are the stats on that? 51 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: Well, Calli, as a former lobbyist, goes through a number 52 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: of different examples, starting in nineteen eighty five when R. J. Reynolds, 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: the makers of Camel cigarettes, purchased Nabisco for five billion dollars. 54 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty eight, Philip Morris, the maker of Marlborough cigarettes, 55 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,119 Speaker 3: they purchased Kraft for thirteen billion dollars. And these were 56 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 3: just some of the transactions of big tobacco buying up 57 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 3: big food. And by the mid nineteen nineties, the cigarette 58 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 3: industry controlled about forty percent of the American food supply. 59 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: We could go wrong, right, right, So while all of 60 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: the anti cigarette campaigns were going big tobacco is like, 61 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: oh no, we're starting to lose money because cigarettes caused 62 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: cancer and a lot of other things. This is what 63 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: they did. Now they have taken over the food supply, 64 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: and were there demonstratable changes that they made to the 65 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: food supply at this time once they took. 66 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 3: Over, Well, the amount of grass chemicals and I'm not 67 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: talking about like grass that you have in your front lawn. 68 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 3: I'm talking about FDAs generally recognized as safe. That is 69 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 3: a term that has been going around in the media 70 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: and it's effectively the food company their own ability to 71 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: self approve ingredients that they feel are quote generally recognized 72 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 3: as safe. And currently in America there's almost ten thousand 73 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 3: chemicals I believe that are allowed in our food supply, 74 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: but are not allowed in European countries. They're banned in Canada. 75 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: And that's why you've maybe seen online examples. Food Babe 76 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 3: has posted a lot of these, like here's what fruit 77 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 3: loops look like in America and they're bright and colorful, 78 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 3: and here's what they look like in the rest of 79 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 3: the world. And the ingredients are about half of the 80 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: amount of ingredients. 81 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and people will say like, oh, but I grew 82 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: up eating this and I'm fine. Well, actually, if you 83 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: look at the food label the exact same product from 84 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 2: back in the early eighties, seventies and early to what 85 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: they are today, they're completely different ingredient labels well. 86 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: And also one important thing to remember is here in 87 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: the United States we kind of have generally approved as 88 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: safe or recognized as safe, so you have to prove 89 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: that it is unsafe to remove it, whereas Europe and 90 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: other countries they say, we have to prove it is 91 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: safe before you can put it in there. Why we 92 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: have such lack standards, I think one can only guess, 93 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: and it is the lobby powerhouse, which is the big 94 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: food industry. 95 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 3: Yes. Unfortunately that seems to be the case throughout the film. 96 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 3: Cali really does a great job of explaining things, like, 97 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: you know, processed food was not even a thing until 98 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 3: after World War Two when Europe was decimated and American 99 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 3: farmers went to work to basically feed the world that 100 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 3: had been decimated by war. So innovation and need to 101 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 3: preserve the food as it was traveling by large ships 102 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: kind of created a okay, well we have to make 103 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 3: this persons, and so they began to experiment with seed 104 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: oils and stuff like that. Well, the road to hell 105 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: is oftentimes paved with good intentions. 106 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think confounding that is women also going 107 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: more into the work environment, not home as much, and 108 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: really requiring a well stocked pantry to feed their family 109 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: instead of you know, daily trips to the grocery store. Listen, 110 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: I'm culpable of this myself, full time working female with 111 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: three kids, and it's really hard to make sure that 112 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: you're constantly having all the freshest ingredients. So, you know, 113 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: it's a price to pay for convenience. It just happens 114 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: to be cheaper food. But that price of what it's 115 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: actually causing to our bodies from a metabolic standpoint and 116 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: potentially cancer and others. I mean, it's quite the detriment. 117 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 3: Well, one of the things we hoped to show in 118 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 3: the documentary was the second part of the subtitle, how 119 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 3: It's being revived is from the ground up. In areas 120 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: like the Phoenix community where we live, there's a number 121 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: of local farmers markets working together to make more convenient 122 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 3: options for busy moms like yourself, and that's part of 123 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: what led us to creating Firefly Organic Coffee and Market. 124 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: We wanted something in our community that one scratched our 125 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 3: own afternoon latte habit, but also provided us and our 126 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 3: community with a way to get raw milk, farm fresh eggs, 127 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: seed oil free chips, seed oil free ingredients, or as sourdough. 128 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: Yeah right, And we're very hopeful that from the top down, 129 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 3: RFK is I think making some massive changes that are 130 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 3: much needed. But really from the ground up, it starts 131 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 3: with consumers voting with their wallets. And what we're finding 132 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: here in the Scottsdale area is that consumers when they 133 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: find Firefly are so ecstatic that it's like, oh my gosh, 134 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 3: this is on my way home, this is on my 135 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: way to work. I can pick up these staples that 136 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: are cleaner, fresher, better, organic, not that much more expensive, 137 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 3: and it is better than the choices that I have 138 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 3: at a typical grocery store. 139 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: So I'm actually born and raised in Scottsdale. I just 140 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: am one of the few people who leave Scottsdail to 141 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: come to me. I don't quite understand that, but so 142 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: I love this. But one of the things about Scottsdale 143 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: is a higher a socioeconomic community, which is one of 144 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: the things that we talk about a lot that have 145 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: access to healthier foods. You know, it tends to be 146 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: more expensive. So what do you see is some of 147 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: the ways that we can make sure that this healthier 148 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: options are actually making their way into lower socioeconomic neighborhoods. 149 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a question that we get asked a lot, 150 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 3: and I think that the answer is the supply and demand. 151 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 3: You know, the example of essentially innovation starting on the 152 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 3: high end. You think about a big screen TV twenty 153 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: years ago was fifteen thousand dollars and now it's like 154 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: I have one hundred dollars. So innovation creates sort of supply, 155 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 3: or rather innovation creates demand and then supply rushes to 156 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 3: fill the vacuum. One of the things, like a great 157 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 3: example would be from the documentary Inspire Farms Tiffany Lily 158 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 3: aka the Chicken Lady, that a lot of people talk 159 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 3: to us about after watching the film. She started with 160 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 3: her teenage daughter her home as a homeschooling project, raising 161 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 3: a chicken in their backyard, and now she has about 162 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 3: forty chickens, and she started a little market and she 163 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 3: supplies eggs quite a few dozens of eggs to her 164 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 3: local community. As a business, she makes a profit on it. 165 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 3: But the good news is is she used to be 166 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 3: allergic to eggs. She was actually allergic to the soy 167 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 3: and the corn that those chickens were eating. And so 168 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: once she had her own chickens and could control their 169 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 3: diet and give them a more natural backyard pasture to 170 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: grow up in, she wasn't allergic to eggs anymore. That 171 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,239 Speaker 3: kind of innovation, whether you're a concer or potentially a producer, 172 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 3: you know, people raising chickens in their backyard is not 173 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 3: that far fetched, and I think it's how we solve 174 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 3: the problem at a local level, and by increasing supply 175 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 3: we hopefully lower cost as well. 176 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: I also, I actually have backyard chickens. I am a 177 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: huge fan of them. I love my chickens. I think 178 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: it would be a tremendous idea if there's a way to, 179 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, subsidize some of these neighborhoods to have backyard 180 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: chickens and actually have some gardens to feed their community. 181 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: I think that's a great idea. 182 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: One of the things that Tiffany actually does is she 183 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 2: helps people get started if they want to raise around chickens. 184 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: She calls it. We inspire. 185 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: Uh we want bart at a time. 186 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, we Inspire farms, one backyard at a time. 187 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: That's great, that's wonderful. 188 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: You know. 189 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on one thing that you talk 190 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: about because I am an avid coffee drinker. I drink 191 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: coffee all day long. I have a cup of coffee 192 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: sitting next to me right now. There are health benefits, 193 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: but I also just really like coffee the taste of it. 194 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: But you talk a lot about how not all coffee 195 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: is created equal. That's right. 196 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: Actually it was pretty eye opening. Around the time that 197 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 2: we started to film this documentary, I had been doing 198 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: a series of health tests for myself and I did 199 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: a microtoxin test to see what kind of toxins were 200 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: in my environment. And actually four different types of mold 201 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: showed up on that test, which I was totally shocked by. 202 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: It said they were likely from food sources, and I 203 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 2: mean I don't need to even eat like blue cheese, 204 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: So I was like, where could this be coming from? 205 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 2: So of course I dived down the rabbit hole and 206 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 2: figure out, Wow, coffee's actually one of the biggest defenders 207 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 2: of this, and I am an added coffee drinker. I 208 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: mean probably four cups a day, including an afternoon latte 209 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: habit that we had both developed because we'd like to 210 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: get out of the house and go and like take 211 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: a break from our workday. But then realizing there aren't 212 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: any like organic or anyone talking about mold free coffee 213 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: anywhere in this town. As a matter of fact, this 214 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: seems like a pretty big hole in the in the 215 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: market for like some one to be talking about. There 216 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: are a couple of clean brands out there, but not 217 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: that many. So that was the inspiration for Firefly. 218 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: So how does mold like get on coffee? So if 219 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: you're going to Starbucks, for instance, would you expect to 220 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: find mold on their coffee? Are you talking about people's 221 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: old coffee just sitting in the van train? 222 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 3: Well, it's more during the production and storage of the 223 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 3: green beans, the raw beans before they're roasted. Most coffee, 224 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 3: in fact, pretty much all of it is grown around 225 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 3: the equator. Equator of course, is very humid often and 226 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: so the storage that the coffee sits in when it's 227 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 3: waiting to get to roasters is often when the mold 228 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 3: is grown. During roasting, they're often able to burn off 229 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 3: the mold, but not necessarily the micotoxin and the mycotoxin 230 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 3: is really where the problems can be for humans. The 231 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 3: EU recently did a test and almost half of the 232 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 3: coffee that they tested had detectable levels of micotoxins. So 233 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 3: if you're drinking for to six cups of coffee at 234 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 3: it's the cumulative build up that you really kind of 235 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 3: worry about. One of the things that we were able 236 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 3: to do, and in fact, it's kind of part of 237 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 3: the journey of the documentary was our search for a 238 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 3: mold free coffee that we really liked the taste of, 239 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 3: and spoiler alert, we found one working with a local roaster. 240 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 3: They've been working with this small family farm in Honduras 241 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 3: for thirty years and it's a registered organic bean. When 242 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: we tasted it, we loved the taste, and then we 243 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 3: did the step that most companies, I don't think do, 244 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 3: which is to send in the finished product to a 245 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: third party lab for testing, and we had four pages 246 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 3: of test results looking at of course micatoxin's molds, but 247 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 3: also heavy metals and PIFAs and glyphysates and other pesticides, 248 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 3: and thankfully the coffee came back squeaky clean. 249 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: You know interesting you mentioned gleigaface. There is the Trump 250 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: administration of the White House just put out something that 251 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: kind of was not in line with some of the 252 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: MAHA talking points on glecapace and trying to get some 253 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: of that out of our produce, being a besticide that 254 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: as being loosely linked to medical illness, specifically cancers. What 255 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: do you make of that? 256 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 3: I think it's a bad move. Recently Dark Horse podcast 257 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: Brett and Heather went through a whole hour and a 258 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: half episode talking about a paper on glyphisate, the supposed 259 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 3: safety of glyphisate that was published in the early thousands, 260 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: and that paper was recently retracted. That paper was really 261 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 3: the foundation of the glyphasate is safe and just to 262 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: boil down their whole episode, it was pulled. The paper 263 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: was pulled for a couple of different reasons, the biggest 264 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 3: of which was Monsanto helped to write the paper, but 265 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 3: they were not declared as authors number two. The paper 266 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 3: was not a new study or like new scientific research. 267 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 3: It was a review paper of all the other research 268 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 3: that had been done, but it failed to review several articles, 269 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: several papers that actually showed danger for glypha sates, so 270 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: they kind of cherry picked the studies that they looked at. 271 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 3: So the retraction of that paper quite frankly is I 272 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 3: think monumental. Glyphosate aka roundup has been used so much 273 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 3: in our food and you think, okay, well, you know 274 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 3: it's like bad for the bug, you know, keeps the 275 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 3: bugs away. Yeah, if the bugs don't want to eat it, 276 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 3: maybe we shouldn't be eating it either. 277 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. They try to say that some of the ingredients 278 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: in there, it's only targeted to disrupt the membranes in insects. Okay, 279 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: I understand that maybe we don't have those same membranes, 280 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: but they love to say, you know, correlation doesn't equal causation. Well, 281 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: we do a lot less in human medicine for a 282 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: lot of correlates. So there does seem to be some 283 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: strong corporate support to keeping this alive. 284 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 3: Well in our glycis sate. Yeah, Glyphisate is a multi 285 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 3: multi billion dollar product. RFK was a part of the 286 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 3: legal team that awarded I think about ten years ago, 287 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 3: maybe least maybe five years ago, one of the largest 288 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 3: judgments in a glyphasate injury case in California, something like 289 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty million dollars awarded to a essentially 290 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 3: a landscaper for I think the University of California. If 291 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 3: I recall, he developed non Hodgkins lymphoma directly connected to 292 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 3: at least agreed upon by a jury and in a 293 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 3: court of law, directly connected to glyphasate exposure. So I 294 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 3: just feel like it's a big mistake to not be 295 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 3: basically focusing on getting glyphasate out of the food supply. 296 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 3: And in fact, it's one of the ingredients that we 297 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: talk about and the Dirty Dozen Ingredients to avoid a 298 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 3: little cheat sheet that we made to help people get 299 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 3: started when they're feeling kind of overwhelmed, like there's so 300 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 3: many ingredients, there's so many things I have to avoid. Well, 301 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 3: if you go to ingredientsnobs dot com, there's a free download, 302 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 3: it's a one page pdf and it lists sort of 303 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 3: here's the ingredients to avoid and when you start on 304 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 3: this path, each ingredient that you started avoiding is like 305 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 3: a new superpower that you picked up. 306 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: What are I mean that's excellent resources to have that 307 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: downloadable sheet. More coming up on Wellness Unmasked with doctor 308 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: Nicole Sapphire. For people who listen, what's probably like the 309 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: three tips the easiest things for them to do to 310 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,719 Speaker 1: try and remove some of these toxins. Maybe what are 311 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: a couple of things they'd be surprised about, Like you 312 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: already mentioned coffee in the mold. But when they're going 313 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: to the grocery store, what should they be on the 314 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: lookout for? 315 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: I would say just healthy foods, well, supposedly healthy foods, right, 316 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: foods that are kind of imposters, where you know, you're 317 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: going to look at the back of the if you 318 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 2: look at the hummus, you're going to look at the ingredients, 319 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: and you're going to see ninety five percent or more 320 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 2: of hummus that you buy in the store has a 321 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: seed oil in it. Same thing with salad dressings, ready 322 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: to drink protein shakes, things like that that are marketed 323 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: as being healthy but truly are not pro health at all. 324 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,719 Speaker 2: And unless you understand how to read a label or 325 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: some things to look out for, you can easily be 326 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: duped into thinking that you're supporting your body in the 327 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: best way, but not realizing that actually it's causing inflammation 328 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: and some gut disruption and microbion disruption. 329 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 3: So yeah, salad dressing is another great terrible example of Oh, 330 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 3: you know, I'm going to eat a salad, so let 331 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 3: me put all this ranch dressing on it. We made 332 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 3: a video What's really inside of Ranch Dressing that got 333 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 3: like five million views on TikTok. It's kind of recreating 334 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 3: it and showing all the junk, especially huge amount of 335 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 3: seed oil, huge amount of artificial coloring and flavoring. It's 336 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 3: not the hidden valley that we think of on that 337 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 3: beautiful label that you know, kind of animated graphic that 338 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 3: created it is industrial garbage. 339 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: Hearbridge. So I was just going to say that Patrick 340 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: and Ashley, this has been wonderful. I have not watched 341 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: the documentary, but I'm going to tell you I am 342 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: going to I didn't realize Callie Means was in it 343 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: or even involved in it, Callie being one of the 344 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: White House advisors and one of the big, big reasons 345 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: that the MAHA movement is what it is today. So 346 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: really interested in watching this? Tell us again the name 347 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: of the documentary, how people can watch it? 348 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're going to really enjoy it. Nicole 349 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 3: Breaking Big Food can be found now on Apple TV 350 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 3: or Amazon Prime Video. It's available for rent if you 351 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 3: want to find out more. About it. You can go 352 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 3: to Breaking Bigfood dot com to see the list of 353 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: the cast, to watch a trailer, and really it's a 354 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 3: seventy five minute film that we really aimed to be inspirational, 355 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 3: to not necessarily create an ex fact blueprint of how 356 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: we're going to fix everything, but really to show how 357 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 3: we got here in the first place and how it 358 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 3: can be revived, because I really believe we can make 359 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 3: America healthy again. The name of your book was absolutely 360 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 3: perfect and obviously has become a big rallying cry for 361 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 3: many of us. Let's make America healthy again. 362 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it. Well, it took us decades to 363 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: tackle big tobacco, and now it's again. We're tackling them again, 364 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: just under the guys of big food. So hopefully with 365 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: us another several decades, but people like you CALLI means 366 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: Rka Junior, who are really speaking out, hopefully we'll get there. 367 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining. 368 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: Us, Thank you for having us. 369 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 3: Thanks Nicle. 370 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: This conversation is not about fear. It's all about awareness. 371 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: You don't have to be afraid to drink coffee because 372 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: you're worried about the toxins and the mold. Well maybe 373 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: you should be a little bit afraid, but just be 374 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: selective in the coffee. Look into it, do your due diligence. 375 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: I'm certainly not going to stop drinking coffee because I'm 376 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: afraid of it, but i am going to start looking 377 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: for cleaner coffees. We also have to make sure cleaner 378 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: is also affordable, because it's not right if only the 379 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: wealthy can afford to eat clean. When you understand how 380 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: the industries engineer products to override our biology, you stop 381 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 1: blaming ourselves and start demanding accountability. Patrick and Ashley's documentary 382 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: is going to be a reminder that real health reform 383 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: doesn't just happen in hospitals and Congress. It happens all 384 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: around boardrooms, policy rooms, and yes, at your dinner table. 385 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: You have some control over this. Thank you so much 386 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: for listening to Wellness on MASS. I'm doctor Nicole Saffire. 387 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: Be sure to listen to Wellness on Mass on iHeartRadio, 388 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. We'll see 389 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: you next time.