WEBVTT - Alex and Jamie Bernstein 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.960 Carnegie Hall in New York City, the home of the 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:12.520 world's greatest musical events. In the nineteen fifties, television was 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.800 a powerful new spotlight in search of a talent that 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.360 could shine back, just as Bryan and here is Mr Bernstein. 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.239 When it landed on Leonard Bernstein, the young Conductor more 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.800 than shined back. His primetime show, Leonard Bernstein's Young People's 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.960 Concerts with the New York Philharmonic, was a benchmark of 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:35.080 quality programming and seduced the entire country. No matter how 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:39.080 many times people tell you stories about what music means, 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.880 forget them. Stories aren't what music means about at all. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:50.160 Music is never about anything. Music just is Music is notes, 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.520 beautiful notes, and songs put together in such a way 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:56.840 that we get pleasure out of listening to them. That's 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.960 all there is too. Bernstein was a masterful teacher, explaining 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.360 classical music with a passion and clarity that couldn't help 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.600 but influence an entire generation of musicians and artists. In 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.240 those days, there were far fewer celebrities, and Bernstein was 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.200 one of the biggest. He wore it well, taking his 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.959 seat at the piano at the center of the party. 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:24.520 He really enjoyed the public. Leonard Bernstein he loved and 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.120 he loved being famous, and he loved meeting everybody in 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.360 the world and in fancy hotels and flying first class. 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.440 And he'd take us along and share it with us, 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:38.000 like isn't this cool. Bernstein was a musician, a conductor, 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.200 a teacher, and a composer of classical music as well 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.880 as Broadway musicals. He was also a father. I'm the Boss. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.800 Bernstein and his wife Felicia had three children, Jamie, Alexander, 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.600 and Nina, and while they knew him in the tucks 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.480 and Tales, they also knew him as the dad who 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.919 loved games. He was a killer at Anagram's the word 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.080 games you might have no idea, and always up for 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:07.280 tennis or squash or skiing or touch football. Two of 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.480 Bernstein's children, Jamie and Alexander, spoke with me about their 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.040 legendary father and what it was like to grow up 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.760 with people like Stephen Sondheim and Jerome Robbins as regular 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.280 house guests. When we were really little, Alexander and I 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.120 used to share a bedroom when we were like, you know, 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.480 really little. And we lived in the Osbourne, which is 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.360 that grand old building, and Alexander and I slept you know, 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.200 at sort of right angles to each other in this bedroom, 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.880 and we would go to sleep listening to the grown 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.959 ups carrying on downstairs. Is what we fell asleep to, 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.560 the noise of the you know, the laughing and the 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.560 roaring around the piano, singing, speaking of the glasses, and 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.760 the smell of the cigarette smoke walking up the stairs. 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.399 We could not wait to be grown ups because obviously 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.639 all grown ups did was have fun. That's interesting, That's 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.080 how it seemed to us. And it seemed like our 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.160 dad certainly had fun when he was working too. So 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:59.959 we never saw anything that resembled drudgery, which is probably 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.560 be a thing that most kids perceive in their working parents. 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.880 You know what about your mother? Was your mother someone 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.360 who was his companion and she was along for the 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.000 ride and all of it and loving it. Or was 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:13.920 she someone who was sitting in a room going when 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:18.240 is it going to stop? He's the energizer bunny and 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.720 the Martini in his hand and a pell mell in 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:27.560 the other. Scotch not Martin's Balentine's beer, I don't know, 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.320 and she had a Chesterfield vodka and the other. But 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.480 your mother was his trusted companion. She was she was in. 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.640 She was all in. She was all in, and I 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.000 think it drove her crazy every bit as much as 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.360 she loved it all. She was very social. Who was 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:52.120 from and where did they meet? They met at a 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:57.600 party given by Claudio? And who was her teacher? Because 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.120 who was studying? She had told her parents that she 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.080 was coming to New York to study piano, but she 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.280 really wanted to be an actress, so she came. She's 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:10.040 a beautiful woman, and she was beautiful, very beautiful. So 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:15.520 she had this understanding with all that she would be 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.360 sort of studying with him, But meanwhile she was studying 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.160 with my parents. Now make this sound of the piano 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:31.200 in his background were like gotta make parents Now in 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.960 exact America, I think it was very much like that. 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.880 It was and the legend has it that our mothers 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.920 sat at his feet and fed him shrimps one by one. 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.120 That was the beginning of the Roman. Yeah, yeah, not 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:50.000 around she might have been doing that and they got engaged. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.880 But where she added in his career then? So he 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.360 had already had his big debut with the New York Philharmonic, 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.479 because that was where he filled in for He filled 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.760 in the a ling Bruno Valter, as he's always referred 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.120 to in that circumstance. I thought his first name was 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.160 ailing anyway, So this must have been like maybe four 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.320 or five years later. So he was riding high, but 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.560 he was not yet. That'll be a name by stay 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.040 in a hotel in from I love good names for hotels. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:17.520 I'm going to stay in a hotel under the name 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:25.039 e h. Naming Bruno is the name Woe, and so 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:37.880 Bruno was that. That was November four, good afternoon, United 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.839 States Rubber Company again invite you to Carnegie Hall to 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.480 hear a concert of the New York Philarmonic Symphony Orchestra. 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.640 Bruno Voter, who was to have conducted this afternoon is ill, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.360 and his place will be taken by the young American 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.800 born assistant conductor of the Philharmonic Symphony, Leonard Bernstein. And 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:56.920 he had to get up there on a moment's note. 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:58.840 And he'd been up all night the night before because 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.200 he had had a premier of a song cycle of 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.680 his cult I Hate Music, and it had premiered the 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.200 night before, so of course it was a party with 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.279 a town hall and and it was very well received. 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.040 Then of course there was a party afterwards, and they 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.200 were up all the live long night. And at the time, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.560 you know, our dad was living in Carnegie Hall in 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.560 those little apartments they used to have at the top. 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.040 So he gets back to Carnegie Hall at you know, 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.880 five in the morning and passes out, and then like 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.640 an hour and a half later, the phone rings and 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.359 it's Bruno Zerato of the New York Philharmonic saying, this 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.919 is a kid. You have to go on this afternoon. 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.640 And it was on the radio as a national broadcast, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.120 which was why it was such a big deal. Then 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.440 it burns. Dan has come out on the platform. It 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.000 was highly covered in the press, probably because it was 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:42.840 the middle of the war and everybody needed a feel 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.200 good story. American boy makes good kind of thing. So 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.000 one guy said, it's like a shoe string catch in 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.520 center field. Make it. You're you're a hero, Muffett and 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:57.320 you're a dope. Bernstein made it. Did he ever reflect 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.520 on that to you, meaning when people have that kind 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.400 of debut. He came up that night and everything changed. 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:06.520 After that he pretty much knew that it was a 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.880 sort of Cinderella tale and that he just got this 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.000 unbelievable lucky break. Yeah, and did he believe was it 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.520 ever discussed even by your mother or people like that? 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.520 Did your father realize he must have that his sexuality 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.360 and that his his his good looks were as much 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.240 a part of his talent as anything else. I think 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.920 there's no doubt of that there. And I he played 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.720 it probably from high school on, you know, and as 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.200 soon as he started playing the piano and knew he 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.880 had this incredible talent and could play at parties and 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.480 get all his attention and he had a meeting out 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.640 of his hands, Oh my god, and U of the hand. Yeah, 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.440 but he was still a little geeky. I mean the 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.840 pictures of him with the Philharmonic after the debut, where 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.559 he's all exhausted and tousled and sweaty, he actually looks 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.560 like like a bar mitzvah. Boy. It looks a little funny, 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.360 um and it. And I think he kind of grew 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.800 into his groovy nous over the subsequent years. So your 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.440 father he had three children over ten years. Yeah, And 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.600 and what was that like for him? In terms of 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.840 were there, did he have certain kind of rules in 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.560 terms of how he protected you from the public and 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:19.600 the schools you went to and the way you lived 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.800 your life, or was he just very lucy goose. You know, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.760 I would say that he was not a mother charge. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.840 He was the one who really designed the way our 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.840 lives went on a day to day basis. He was 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.920 busy being the maestro, and then he would come home 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.920 and play with us and hang out and have fun 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.160 and have fun. But he was not really the designer 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.400 of the domestic scene. He was a great time. He 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.360 was home. He was really home, you know, he didn't 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.680 have an office to go to. And when aware of 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.880 who your father was, you know, you when you're growing up, 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.480 your family is just your family. You have no no 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.480 objectivity about it, and your parents are just your parents, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.240 and you don't really think about how different they might 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.120 be from the others until you get older. At some 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.640 point when we were pretty young, there was an episode 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:11.160 of The flint Stones The time is it Betty, It's 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:15.120 temis to nine, Betty and Wilma, We're gonna go to 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.920 the holly Rock Bowl. I love to watch Leonard Burnstone, 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.760 conductor and The first thing on the program is at 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:27.880 gorgeous Symphony by Rocky Man. Enough, that's when we knew 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:33.800 really hit the big time. And how old were your kids, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:38.439 little kids like you know, nine and six even less? 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:40.840 Was there a downside to what did you feel like? 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.480 There were things that were tough for you with him. 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.800 Looking back on it now or when we got older, 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.760 probably look back and think about some downsides. But at 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:55.520 the time it really didn't seem so bad at all. 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.400 It were really little. It was just a lark that 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.840 I I often try to think back to come on, 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.960 you know, there must have been some shadows. But but 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.640 we had a pretty fantastic early childhood. It was. It 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.320 was kind of wonderful. He's not some tortured introspective. He 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.959 was a happy guy and he was a celebrity. He 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.680 was he was. But but back in those early days 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:23.160 of our family life, um, that was overshadowed by the 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.880 joy and the happiness, the business and the family life. 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:31.560 And from any he kept that from you. I'll tell 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.160 you for in my memory, the moment when it changed 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.520 was November twenty nine, sixty three, the day JFK was assassinated. 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.760 That was when the shadow fell over and and life 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.640 became sort of real. Up until that point, you know, 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.360 grown ups just had fun as far as we could perceive. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.800 And then that day we saw our parents fall apart. 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.960 They were crying because they were friends of the Kennedys. 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.760 They had been to the White House, they had had dinner, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.600 just the four of them. Imagine, they had been centerpieces 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:11.560 of Kennedy's cultural programming in the White They could not 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.640 have been more connected to the Kennedy administration and everything 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.880 that it stood for. So on that day when when 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.880 he was assassinated, our parents just fell apart, and so 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.280 did the whole rest of the family and all their friends. 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.520 And they pulled down the shades and sat around crying 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.880 all day and just watch TV. Now we could perceive 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:32.800 that there were shadows and that there were ups and 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.640 downs that wasn't visible to us. The world itself can 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.840 affect people psychologically. What about your mom in terms of 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.760 her music appreciation. I mean, she studied the piano, but 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.280 did she go on to have any kind of a 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.360 serious career even or in her young years when she 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.280 was with a raw did she play? Did she study? 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.520 Once she met in marriage her father, did all that 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.840 stop her piano playing stopped. She would play sometimes at home, 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.960 and quite beautifully, but she wasn't as passionate about it, 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:07.640 no passionate about her acting. She kept at that sometimes 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.120 she would And what were some of the things she 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:11.640 was working on during her course? She did a lot 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.160 of early television Playhouse ninety and Crafts Theater and all 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.480 those live dramas that they had in early television. She 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:21.800 did a lot of that and a lot of stage work. 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:26.200 Did that stop at some point? It kind of receded 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.360 as she became Mrs Maestro and a mom, which was 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.319 a double job that could keep anybody, of course, And 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.719 was she generally happy to do those things or did 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.240 she have a voice? Because it's interesting to me to 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.760 have someone who is in the world of music herself. 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.560 She was a studied with a raw a serious opportunity there. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.600 She had aspirations about music and acting. And did she 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.679 miss those things? Did she ever say, gosh if I 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:52.599 only did she have a little bit of a wistfulness 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.880 about she was pretty ambivalent about it? Yeah she did, 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.960 And she didn't really talk a lot about her inner self. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.800 When she did talking about a little bit was that 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:06.880 she had some stage fright issues, and so when she 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:11.200 started performing less in public, she would say that she 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.640 was relieved and and that being you know this, this 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:21.360 Mrs Bernstein persona was a way of not having to 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.360 confront her fears about performing. But I think you know 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.520 anybody who has performed as a part of them that 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.800 still wants to perform. But she knew that that, like 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:32.959 it was just going to be too hard to have these, 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:37.600 you know, two rampant egos in the household. Probably a 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:46.840 good call coming up more about Bernstein's early years in 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.880 Massachusetts and his final concert at Tanglewood, which his brother 0:13:50.960 --> 0:14:23.880 described as Lenny coming home to die. H. This is 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.840 Alec Baldwin you're listening to. Here's the thing. I'm talking 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.600 with two of Leonard Bernstein's children, Jamie and Alexander. I 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:37.080 see someone like your dad who sounds very childlike did 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:42.320 the Young People's concerts, father faun and joy and family 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.440 and love bursting with love. Leonard Bernstein is someone to 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.840 me who when he's on the podium, love is just 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.800 shooting out of him like a rainbow. Love of this 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:53.800 and love of that, and love of life, and love 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.480 of sex, and love of sound, and love of women 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.280 and love of beauty, and I wonder was it because 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.000 as the result of his classical training, did he not 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:08.320 have enough childhood? His childhood was uh, not about music. 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.800 He was he was. He was born in Lawrence, Massachusetts, 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.760 and then shortly thereafter they moved to the Boston area. 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:21.400 First they lived in Roxbury, they moved around. He was 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.000 a hair product salesman. He was a salesman, and his 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.160 mom was she musical. How did the music get into 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.400 his life? Well, here's the thing. There was this aunt Clara, 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:36.160 who moved to Florida, and so she sent all her 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.880 furniture over to her brother Sam's house, and along with 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.720 all the couches and break fronts arrived this upright piano. 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.720 Our dad was ten years old. The piano got hauled 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.480 into the house and as our father told it, he 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.880 touched the piano and that was it. He knew it's 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.680 one of those stories. And he taught himself theory. He 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.120 just play the piano. He figured he could. He could 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.320 figure it all out in the modern breup. And the 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:10.200 thing about his dad, Sam Bernstein, is that Sam, you know, 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.680 it was a depression, but Sam was very proud that 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.560 he was able to tide his family over the depression 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.840 because he had this very successful beauty supply business to 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:25.160 Samuel J. Bernstein Hair Company in Boston. It's Bernstein was 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.440 the slogan, and he had the New England franchise for 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:34.360 the Frederick's Permanent Wave machine. Even a depression, there's two 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.560 things you don't let go of, booze and vanity, and 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.640 all those women would go and be attached to that, 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.400 that machine that looks like Bride of Frankenstein. Now they 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.640 were all doing it. So they got through the depression. 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.720 And Sam was so proud that he was able to 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.520 pass the Samuel J. Bernstein Hair Company along to his 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:56.120 eldest son to run. And of course Lenny had no 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.760 intention of running the Samuel J. Bernstein Hair Company in Boston. 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.720 It's Bernstein. And it was a real problem between had 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.640 a great hat of hair, yes he did, had of hair. 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.719 And then what ham Sam was not going to let 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:13.760 him be uh kletzmer musician, you know, because he can't 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.399 get weddings and funerals. And that was it, you know, 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.399 that's what a musician does. In the old country, that 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.879 a musician was a beggar, a homeless guy who went 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.280 from stettle to Stettle playing the fiddle and getting a 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.520 few copex at the wedding, you call out a living. 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.680 So what happened? So little by little it became clear 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.120 that he was immensely talented at this and it went 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.880 to the Boston Latin School and then to Harvard. And 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.560 he gets to Harvard to study what music just no, 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.359 they had no music department. No music department. You couldn't 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.680 major in it. So he was he a literature guy. 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.800 She was born in eighteen. So he's there, you know, 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:51.560 class of thirty. No music department at Harvard. There and 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.240 then just immediately prior to the war not and then 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.480 when he leaves Harvard, where does he go. He goes 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.480 to Curtis Curtis where he goes to the next level. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.480 He wasn't. Curtis is where the music at Harvard, he's 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.919 writing music, he's putting on shows constantly. Curtis is the 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.480 real temple of musical study that he enters. This is 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.880 the real formalizing of his music legic. And he studies 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:18.640 with Fritz Reiner, you know, studies conducting big level here level. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.879 And it was it was tough. He was very lonely. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:22.880 It was it was a tough year or two for him. 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:27.040 At Curtis, he's there for how long? A little over 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:28.840 a year? I think, then what happens a long time? 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.440 And then he came to New York desperate to find work. 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.640 He was ready to hit New York and do what 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:41.719 he started. He wrote arrangements, arrangements and stuff under an 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:46.840 assumed name Lenny Amber. He arranged orn at Coleman Charts. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.560 He did all sorts of weird things. He did, Uh 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.880 didn't you do? Like a four hands version of ill 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.119 slone Michico. For Aaron Copeland was the big thing he 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.480 got to know Harriic Copeland. That happen that he was 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.520 still in college when he met Aaron Harvard or Curtis Harvard. 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.520 So at Harvard he meets Copeland under what circumstances, Because 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:05.879 if he's not in a music program, how does he 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.320 rub shoulders with? I think he gets invited to. He 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.320 came to New York for the weekend. He was invited 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.720 to be seeking out and sniffing out the musical world, 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:20.880 even though it's at Harvard next to Aaron, and they 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:22.280 get to know each other. And it turned out to 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.480 be Aaron's birthday and Aaron invited our dad back to 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.680 his loft for the party. Clara ships the piano to 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.440 the house. That's that's O moment number one. He gets 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.120 seated next to Copeland moment number two, and then goes 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.199 to the birthday party and plays Copeland's piano variations in 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.920 front of the whole crowd, which our dad was in 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.439 the habit of doing and clearing rooms because it's a 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.440 very gnarly piece. And so he said, are you sure 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:50.040 you want me to play it at this party because 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.240 it usually clears the room, And Aaron said, not at 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.920 this party. And he played it and didn't clear the room. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.439 He did not clear that runs. Yeah, it's all of 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:03.120 Copeland's contemporaries, and he plays, and a friendship and relationship 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:07.240 with Copeland commences there. And other than I would say 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.960 probably as much, if not more than Slatkin, your father 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:11.840 was one of the great interpreters of Copeland. I mean 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.119 that the two of them are my two favorites. Bernstein 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.240 and Slatkin are my two favorite Copeland issers. And then 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.159 what is the quick series of steps that gets them 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.840 to the associate directorship of the Philharmonic. I think an 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:29.720 introduction to Kusowitski going to Tanglewood conducting a tangle She 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:31.840 was a guest conductor of Tanglewood. He knows he's a 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:38.560 student student conductor. Tang had just been invented by Kusowitski. 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.399 And and our dad was in that first class. And 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.359 and so Kuzowitski is the one who builds tangle would 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.560 he is? She he's the music directors, the v s 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.600 O who oversees the construction of that. What are some 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:51.840 of your best memories of your dad there? What would 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:53.560 you do? Remember? What was this? If you will go ahead, 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.240 give me give me here you're laughing. Were because our 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.640 dad loved to go to Tanglewood so much his entire life. 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:03.119 Every time he went up there, it was like he 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:05.639 would be rejuvenated, he would turn into a kid. Again. 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:07.840 It's a holy place. It's a holy place. And what 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:09.880 he really loved was being with all those kids. Say 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.119 that again, that that the Berkshires is a holy place. 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.280 Your father loved it there. Time we both worked at Tanglewood, 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.440 what did you do it over a few more years 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.320 than we were guides? We were guides, which was it's 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.000 a fancy name for just doing anything that they need 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.520 to be done. But um, you know, you manned the 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.240 gates and you show people around. That was the guide part. 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.280 Sometimes there would be tours, but and also you would 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:44.040 extend backstage and helped the artists and move them around 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:45.960 and picked them up at the airport and stuff like that. 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:48.440 And it was just heaven to be up there for 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.120 a summer. And there was also this sense, I think 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:55.320 our dad had it from the very beginning that you know, 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.159 everybody was sort of out in this beautiful weather, in 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:02.080 this beautiful lace with all these fun people, and there 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:06.440 would be Shenanigan's. We just fell right into the Shenanigan's 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.800 sensibility of the place that you know, it was just 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.119 fun and everybody was partying all night and and and 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.080 you having romances and and it's funny you say that, 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:18.560 because it is probably one of the two or three 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.200 most romantic places I've ever been. You mean, you can 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:26.240 go for those people listening who don't know. The Tanglewood 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:28.680 is in the Berkshires in Massachusetts and it's the it's 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:32.359 the summer residency of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and you 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:34.960 go up there to Lennox massive piece of land and 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.960 it's a massive tract of land and in that way, 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.600 in a good way that you can talk about going 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:47.720 somewhere with someone and driving that decompressing road trip that 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.359 as you drive and drive and get closer and closer, 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.280 you just feel your your body relaxing. And then you 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:56.919 get to the excitement of going to Tanglewood and you 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.359 go and you get your your basket and your food 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:02.480 and your wine. That's the real fun is to be 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.040 out on the law. The star. The lawn is even 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.200 better in a way if you've got the basket and 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.240 the girl and the wine or who whatever your preferences there. 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.240 And I think I've never seen more people who are 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:16.560