1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Carnegie Hall in New York City, the home of the 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: world's greatest musical events. In the nineteen fifties, television was 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: a powerful new spotlight in search of a talent that 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: could shine back, just as Bryan and here is Mr Bernstein. 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: When it landed on Leonard Bernstein, the young Conductor more 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: than shined back. His primetime show, Leonard Bernstein's Young People's 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: Concerts with the New York Philharmonic, was a benchmark of 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: quality programming and seduced the entire country. No matter how 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: many times people tell you stories about what music means, 11 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: forget them. Stories aren't what music means about at all. 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: Music is never about anything. Music just is Music is notes, 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: beautiful notes, and songs put together in such a way 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: that we get pleasure out of listening to them. That's 15 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: all there is too. Bernstein was a masterful teacher, explaining 16 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: classical music with a passion and clarity that couldn't help 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: but influence an entire generation of musicians and artists. In 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: those days, there were far fewer celebrities, and Bernstein was 19 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: one of the biggest. He wore it well, taking his 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: seat at the piano at the center of the party. 21 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: He really enjoyed the public. Leonard Bernstein he loved and 22 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: he loved being famous, and he loved meeting everybody in 23 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: the world and in fancy hotels and flying first class. 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: And he'd take us along and share it with us, 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: like isn't this cool. Bernstein was a musician, a conductor, 26 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: a teacher, and a composer of classical music as well 27 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: as Broadway musicals. He was also a father. I'm the Boss. 28 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: Bernstein and his wife Felicia had three children, Jamie, Alexander, 29 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: and Nina, and while they knew him in the tucks 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: and Tales, they also knew him as the dad who 31 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,919 Speaker 1: loved games. He was a killer at Anagram's the word 32 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: games you might have no idea, and always up for 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: tennis or squash or skiing or touch football. Two of 34 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: Bernstein's children, Jamie and Alexander, spoke with me about their 35 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: legendary father and what it was like to grow up 36 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: with people like Stephen Sondheim and Jerome Robbins as regular 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: house guests. When we were really little, Alexander and I 38 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: used to share a bedroom when we were like, you know, 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: really little. And we lived in the Osbourne, which is 40 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: that grand old building, and Alexander and I slept you know, 41 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: at sort of right angles to each other in this bedroom, 42 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: and we would go to sleep listening to the grown 43 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: ups carrying on downstairs. Is what we fell asleep to, 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: the noise of the you know, the laughing and the 45 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: roaring around the piano, singing, speaking of the glasses, and 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: the smell of the cigarette smoke walking up the stairs. 47 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 1: We could not wait to be grown ups because obviously 48 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: all grown ups did was have fun. That's interesting, That's 49 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: how it seemed to us. And it seemed like our 50 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: dad certainly had fun when he was working too. So 51 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: we never saw anything that resembled drudgery, which is probably 52 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: be a thing that most kids perceive in their working parents. 53 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: You know what about your mother? Was your mother someone 54 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: who was his companion and she was along for the 55 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: ride and all of it and loving it. Or was 56 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: she someone who was sitting in a room going when 57 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: is it going to stop? He's the energizer bunny and 58 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: the Martini in his hand and a pell mell in 59 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: the other. Scotch not Martin's Balentine's beer, I don't know, 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: and she had a Chesterfield vodka and the other. But 61 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: your mother was his trusted companion. She was she was in. 62 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: She was all in. She was all in, and I 63 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: think it drove her crazy every bit as much as 64 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: she loved it all. She was very social. Who was 65 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: from and where did they meet? They met at a 66 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: party given by Claudio? And who was her teacher? Because 67 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: who was studying? She had told her parents that she 68 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: was coming to New York to study piano, but she 69 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: really wanted to be an actress, so she came. She's 70 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: a beautiful woman, and she was beautiful, very beautiful. So 71 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: she had this understanding with all that she would be 72 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: sort of studying with him, But meanwhile she was studying 73 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: with my parents. Now make this sound of the piano 74 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: in his background were like gotta make parents Now in 75 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: exact America, I think it was very much like that. 76 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: It was and the legend has it that our mothers 77 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: sat at his feet and fed him shrimps one by one. 78 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: That was the beginning of the Roman. Yeah, yeah, not 79 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: around she might have been doing that and they got engaged. 80 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: But where she added in his career then? So he 81 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: had already had his big debut with the New York Philharmonic, 82 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: because that was where he filled in for He filled 83 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: in the a ling Bruno Valter, as he's always referred 84 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: to in that circumstance. I thought his first name was 85 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: ailing anyway, So this must have been like maybe four 86 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: or five years later. So he was riding high, but 87 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: he was not yet. That'll be a name by stay 88 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: in a hotel in from I love good names for hotels. 89 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to stay in a hotel under the name 90 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: e h. Naming Bruno is the name Woe, and so 91 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: Bruno was that. That was November four, good afternoon, United 92 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: States Rubber Company again invite you to Carnegie Hall to 93 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: hear a concert of the New York Philarmonic Symphony Orchestra. 94 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: Bruno Voter, who was to have conducted this afternoon is ill, 95 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: and his place will be taken by the young American 96 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: born assistant conductor of the Philharmonic Symphony, Leonard Bernstein. And 97 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: he had to get up there on a moment's note. 98 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: And he'd been up all night the night before because 99 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: he had had a premier of a song cycle of 100 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: his cult I Hate Music, and it had premiered the 101 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: night before, so of course it was a party with 102 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: a town hall and and it was very well received. 103 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: Then of course there was a party afterwards, and they 104 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: were up all the live long night. And at the time, 105 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, our dad was living in Carnegie Hall in 106 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: those little apartments they used to have at the top. 107 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: So he gets back to Carnegie Hall at you know, 108 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: five in the morning and passes out, and then like 109 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: an hour and a half later, the phone rings and 110 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: it's Bruno Zerato of the New York Philharmonic saying, this 111 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: is a kid. You have to go on this afternoon. 112 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: And it was on the radio as a national broadcast, 113 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: which was why it was such a big deal. Then 114 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: it burns. Dan has come out on the platform. It 115 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: was highly covered in the press, probably because it was 116 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: the middle of the war and everybody needed a feel 117 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: good story. American boy makes good kind of thing. So 118 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: one guy said, it's like a shoe string catch in 119 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: center field. Make it. You're you're a hero, Muffett and 120 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: you're a dope. Bernstein made it. Did he ever reflect 121 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: on that to you, meaning when people have that kind 122 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: of debut. He came up that night and everything changed. 123 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: After that he pretty much knew that it was a 124 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: sort of Cinderella tale and that he just got this 125 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: unbelievable lucky break. Yeah, and did he believe was it 126 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: ever discussed even by your mother or people like that? 127 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: Did your father realize he must have that his sexuality 128 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: and that his his his good looks were as much 129 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: a part of his talent as anything else. I think 130 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: there's no doubt of that there. And I he played 131 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: it probably from high school on, you know, and as 132 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: soon as he started playing the piano and knew he 133 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: had this incredible talent and could play at parties and 134 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: get all his attention and he had a meeting out 135 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: of his hands, Oh my god, and U of the hand. Yeah, 136 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: but he was still a little geeky. I mean the 137 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: pictures of him with the Philharmonic after the debut, where 138 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,559 Speaker 1: he's all exhausted and tousled and sweaty, he actually looks 139 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: like like a bar mitzvah. Boy. It looks a little funny, 140 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: um and it. And I think he kind of grew 141 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: into his groovy nous over the subsequent years. So your 142 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: father he had three children over ten years. Yeah, And 143 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: and what was that like for him? In terms of 144 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: were there, did he have certain kind of rules in 145 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: terms of how he protected you from the public and 146 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: the schools you went to and the way you lived 147 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: your life, or was he just very lucy goose. You know, 148 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: I would say that he was not a mother charge. 149 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: He was the one who really designed the way our 150 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: lives went on a day to day basis. He was 151 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: busy being the maestro, and then he would come home 152 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: and play with us and hang out and have fun 153 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: and have fun. But he was not really the designer 154 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: of the domestic scene. He was a great time. He 155 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: was home. He was really home, you know, he didn't 156 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: have an office to go to. And when aware of 157 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: who your father was, you know, you when you're growing up, 158 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: your family is just your family. You have no no 159 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: objectivity about it, and your parents are just your parents, 160 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: and you don't really think about how different they might 161 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: be from the others until you get older. At some 162 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: point when we were pretty young, there was an episode 163 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: of The flint Stones The time is it Betty, It's 164 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: temis to nine, Betty and Wilma, We're gonna go to 165 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: the holly Rock Bowl. I love to watch Leonard Burnstone, 166 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: conductor and The first thing on the program is at 167 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: gorgeous Symphony by Rocky Man. Enough, that's when we knew 168 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: really hit the big time. And how old were your kids, 169 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: little kids like you know, nine and six even less? 170 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: Was there a downside to what did you feel like? 171 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: There were things that were tough for you with him. 172 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: Looking back on it now or when we got older, 173 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: probably look back and think about some downsides. But at 174 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: the time it really didn't seem so bad at all. 175 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: It were really little. It was just a lark that 176 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: I I often try to think back to come on, 177 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: you know, there must have been some shadows. But but 178 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: we had a pretty fantastic early childhood. It was. It 179 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: was kind of wonderful. He's not some tortured introspective. He 180 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 1: was a happy guy and he was a celebrity. He 181 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: was he was. But but back in those early days 182 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: of our family life, um, that was overshadowed by the 183 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: joy and the happiness, the business and the family life. 184 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: And from any he kept that from you. I'll tell 185 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: you for in my memory, the moment when it changed 186 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: was November twenty nine, sixty three, the day JFK was assassinated. 187 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: That was when the shadow fell over and and life 188 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: became sort of real. Up until that point, you know, 189 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: grown ups just had fun as far as we could perceive. 190 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: And then that day we saw our parents fall apart. 191 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: They were crying because they were friends of the Kennedys. 192 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: They had been to the White House, they had had dinner, 193 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: just the four of them. Imagine, they had been centerpieces 194 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: of Kennedy's cultural programming in the White They could not 195 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: have been more connected to the Kennedy administration and everything 196 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: that it stood for. So on that day when when 197 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: he was assassinated, our parents just fell apart, and so 198 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: did the whole rest of the family and all their friends. 199 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: And they pulled down the shades and sat around crying 200 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: all day and just watch TV. Now we could perceive 201 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: that there were shadows and that there were ups and 202 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: downs that wasn't visible to us. The world itself can 203 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: affect people psychologically. What about your mom in terms of 204 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: her music appreciation. I mean, she studied the piano, but 205 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: did she go on to have any kind of a 206 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: serious career even or in her young years when she 207 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: was with a raw did she play? Did she study? 208 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: Once she met in marriage her father, did all that 209 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: stop her piano playing stopped. She would play sometimes at home, 210 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: and quite beautifully, but she wasn't as passionate about it, 211 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: no passionate about her acting. She kept at that sometimes 212 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: she would And what were some of the things she 213 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: was working on during her course? She did a lot 214 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: of early television Playhouse ninety and Crafts Theater and all 215 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: those live dramas that they had in early television. She 216 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: did a lot of that and a lot of stage work. 217 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: Did that stop at some point? It kind of receded 218 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: as she became Mrs Maestro and a mom, which was 219 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: a double job that could keep anybody, of course, And 220 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 1: was she generally happy to do those things or did 221 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: she have a voice? Because it's interesting to me to 222 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: have someone who is in the world of music herself. 223 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: She was a studied with a raw a serious opportunity there. 224 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: She had aspirations about music and acting. And did she 225 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: miss those things? Did she ever say, gosh if I 226 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,599 Speaker 1: only did she have a little bit of a wistfulness 227 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: about she was pretty ambivalent about it? Yeah she did, 228 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: And she didn't really talk a lot about her inner self. 229 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: When she did talking about a little bit was that 230 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: she had some stage fright issues, and so when she 231 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: started performing less in public, she would say that she 232 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: was relieved and and that being you know this, this 233 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: Mrs Bernstein persona was a way of not having to 234 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: confront her fears about performing. But I think you know 235 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: anybody who has performed as a part of them that 236 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: still wants to perform. But she knew that that, like 237 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: it was just going to be too hard to have these, 238 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, two rampant egos in the household. Probably a 239 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: good call coming up more about Bernstein's early years in 240 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: Massachusetts and his final concert at Tanglewood, which his brother 241 00:13:50,960 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: described as Lenny coming home to die. H. This is 242 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin you're listening to. Here's the thing. I'm talking 243 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: with two of Leonard Bernstein's children, Jamie and Alexander. I 244 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: see someone like your dad who sounds very childlike did 245 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: the Young People's concerts, father faun and joy and family 246 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: and love bursting with love. Leonard Bernstein is someone to 247 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: me who when he's on the podium, love is just 248 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: shooting out of him like a rainbow. Love of this 249 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: and love of that, and love of life, and love 250 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: of sex, and love of sound, and love of women 251 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: and love of beauty, and I wonder was it because 252 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: as the result of his classical training, did he not 253 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: have enough childhood? His childhood was uh, not about music. 254 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: He was he was. He was born in Lawrence, Massachusetts, 255 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: and then shortly thereafter they moved to the Boston area. 256 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: First they lived in Roxbury, they moved around. He was 257 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: a hair product salesman. He was a salesman, and his 258 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: mom was she musical. How did the music get into 259 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: his life? Well, here's the thing. There was this aunt Clara, 260 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: who moved to Florida, and so she sent all her 261 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: furniture over to her brother Sam's house, and along with 262 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: all the couches and break fronts arrived this upright piano. 263 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: Our dad was ten years old. The piano got hauled 264 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: into the house and as our father told it, he 265 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: touched the piano and that was it. He knew it's 266 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: one of those stories. And he taught himself theory. He 267 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: just play the piano. He figured he could. He could 268 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: figure it all out in the modern breup. And the 269 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: thing about his dad, Sam Bernstein, is that Sam, you know, 270 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: it was a depression, but Sam was very proud that 271 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: he was able to tide his family over the depression 272 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: because he had this very successful beauty supply business to 273 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: Samuel J. Bernstein Hair Company in Boston. It's Bernstein was 274 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: the slogan, and he had the New England franchise for 275 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: the Frederick's Permanent Wave machine. Even a depression, there's two 276 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: things you don't let go of, booze and vanity, and 277 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: all those women would go and be attached to that, 278 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: that machine that looks like Bride of Frankenstein. Now they 279 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: were all doing it. So they got through the depression. 280 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: And Sam was so proud that he was able to 281 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: pass the Samuel J. Bernstein Hair Company along to his 282 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: eldest son to run. And of course Lenny had no 283 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: intention of running the Samuel J. Bernstein Hair Company in Boston. 284 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: It's Bernstein. And it was a real problem between had 285 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: a great hat of hair, yes he did, had of hair. 286 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,719 Speaker 1: And then what ham Sam was not going to let 287 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: him be uh kletzmer musician, you know, because he can't 288 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: get weddings and funerals. And that was it, you know, 289 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: that's what a musician does. In the old country, that 290 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: a musician was a beggar, a homeless guy who went 291 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: from stettle to Stettle playing the fiddle and getting a 292 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: few copex at the wedding, you call out a living. 293 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: So what happened? So little by little it became clear 294 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: that he was immensely talented at this and it went 295 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: to the Boston Latin School and then to Harvard. And 296 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: he gets to Harvard to study what music just no, 297 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: they had no music department. No music department. You couldn't 298 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: major in it. So he was he a literature guy. 299 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: She was born in eighteen. So he's there, you know, 300 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: class of thirty. No music department at Harvard. There and 301 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: then just immediately prior to the war not and then 302 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: when he leaves Harvard, where does he go. He goes 303 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: to Curtis Curtis where he goes to the next level. 304 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: He wasn't. Curtis is where the music at Harvard, he's 305 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: writing music, he's putting on shows constantly. Curtis is the 306 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: real temple of musical study that he enters. This is 307 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: the real formalizing of his music legic. And he studies 308 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: with Fritz Reiner, you know, studies conducting big level here level. 309 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: And it was it was tough. He was very lonely. 310 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: It was it was a tough year or two for him. 311 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: At Curtis, he's there for how long? A little over 312 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: a year? I think, then what happens a long time? 313 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: And then he came to New York desperate to find work. 314 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: He was ready to hit New York and do what 315 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 1: he started. He wrote arrangements, arrangements and stuff under an 316 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: assumed name Lenny Amber. He arranged orn at Coleman Charts. 317 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: He did all sorts of weird things. He did, Uh 318 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: didn't you do? Like a four hands version of ill 319 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: slone Michico. For Aaron Copeland was the big thing he 320 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: got to know Harriic Copeland. That happen that he was 321 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: still in college when he met Aaron Harvard or Curtis Harvard. 322 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: So at Harvard he meets Copeland under what circumstances, Because 323 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: if he's not in a music program, how does he 324 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: rub shoulders with? I think he gets invited to. He 325 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: came to New York for the weekend. He was invited 326 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: to be seeking out and sniffing out the musical world, 327 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: even though it's at Harvard next to Aaron, and they 328 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: get to know each other. And it turned out to 329 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: be Aaron's birthday and Aaron invited our dad back to 330 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: his loft for the party. Clara ships the piano to 331 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: the house. That's that's O moment number one. He gets 332 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: seated next to Copeland moment number two, and then goes 333 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: to the birthday party and plays Copeland's piano variations in 334 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: front of the whole crowd, which our dad was in 335 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: the habit of doing and clearing rooms because it's a 336 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: very gnarly piece. And so he said, are you sure 337 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: you want me to play it at this party because 338 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: it usually clears the room, And Aaron said, not at 339 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: this party. And he played it and didn't clear the room. 340 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: He did not clear that runs. Yeah, it's all of 341 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: Copeland's contemporaries, and he plays, and a friendship and relationship 342 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: with Copeland commences there. And other than I would say 343 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: probably as much, if not more than Slatkin, your father 344 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: was one of the great interpreters of Copeland. I mean 345 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: that the two of them are my two favorites. Bernstein 346 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: and Slatkin are my two favorite Copeland issers. And then 347 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: what is the quick series of steps that gets them 348 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: to the associate directorship of the Philharmonic. I think an 349 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: introduction to Kusowitski going to Tanglewood conducting a tangle She 350 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: was a guest conductor of Tanglewood. He knows he's a 351 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: student student conductor. Tang had just been invented by Kusowitski. 352 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: And and our dad was in that first class. And 353 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: and so Kuzowitski is the one who builds tangle would 354 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: he is? She he's the music directors, the v s 355 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: O who oversees the construction of that. What are some 356 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: of your best memories of your dad there? What would 357 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: you do? Remember? What was this? If you will go ahead, 358 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: give me give me here you're laughing. Were because our 359 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: dad loved to go to Tanglewood so much his entire life. 360 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: Every time he went up there, it was like he 361 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: would be rejuvenated, he would turn into a kid. Again. 362 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: It's a holy place. It's a holy place. And what 363 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: he really loved was being with all those kids. Say 364 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: that again, that that the Berkshires is a holy place. 365 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: Your father loved it there. Time we both worked at Tanglewood, 366 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: what did you do it over a few more years 367 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: than we were guides? We were guides, which was it's 368 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: a fancy name for just doing anything that they need 369 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: to be done. But um, you know, you manned the 370 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: gates and you show people around. That was the guide part. 371 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes there would be tours, but and also you would 372 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: extend backstage and helped the artists and move them around 373 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: and picked them up at the airport and stuff like that. 374 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: And it was just heaven to be up there for 375 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: a summer. And there was also this sense, I think 376 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: our dad had it from the very beginning that you know, 377 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: everybody was sort of out in this beautiful weather, in 378 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: this beautiful lace with all these fun people, and there 379 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: would be Shenanigan's. We just fell right into the Shenanigan's 380 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: sensibility of the place that you know, it was just 381 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: fun and everybody was partying all night and and and 382 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: you having romances and and it's funny you say that, 383 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: because it is probably one of the two or three 384 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: most romantic places I've ever been. You mean, you can 385 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: go for those people listening who don't know. The Tanglewood 386 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: is in the Berkshires in Massachusetts and it's the it's 387 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: the summer residency of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and you 388 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: go up there to Lennox massive piece of land and 389 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: it's a massive tract of land and in that way, 390 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: in a good way that you can talk about going 391 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: somewhere with someone and driving that decompressing road trip that 392 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: as you drive and drive and get closer and closer, 393 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: you just feel your your body relaxing. And then you 394 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: get to the excitement of going to Tanglewood and you 395 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: go and you get your your basket and your food 396 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: and your wine. That's the real fun is to be 397 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: out on the law. The star. The lawn is even 398 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: better in a way if you've got the basket and 399 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: the girl and the wine or who whatever your preferences there. 400 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: And I think I've never seen more people who are 401 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: getting it right, you know, I mean in terms of 402 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: having a lovely evening and if they get smashed on 403 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: top of it, you know, I guess what I'm saying 404 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: is there's nothing like getting smashed a tangle Wood. The truth, 405 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 1: it's it's the best kind of you know. The year 406 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: that I was a guide, there was no comment, no comment. 407 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: The year that I was a guide, there was the 408 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: year the Fillmore East came up there like three different times, 409 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: and I saw Who and Jimmy Hendrix. You're saying that 410 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: Bill Graham had his production company. Fillmore reman as a 411 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: production company. Yeah, they can the rider with all those 412 00:23:53,400 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: the shed. The shed was a bathroom to them. We're 413 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: not say what pleasure it has to be back and 414 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: Tangled again. We were on the here last August. They 415 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: trashed that loan. That's why they were never invited back. 416 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: You would not have wanted. Isn't it funny how we've 417 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: changed back then? I would have been there. Who I'm like, 418 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: we're not having them here. You can have that the 419 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: likes here Entangled Wood. Who else did? The grand Mr Kylie, 420 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: who ran the head of the groundskeepers, was just beside himself. Yeah, coronary, 421 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: he really it was. It was a disaster. Your father 422 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: loved it there though, he loved it, and he loved 423 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: to stay up all night yakking with the students. That 424 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: was what really did your dad admire in his constellation? 425 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: Who did he? I heard a story once from someone. 426 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: They said that they were at your family's home and 427 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: your father standing there with a cigarette in his hand 428 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: and a drink in the other, and someone says, I 429 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: just came from seeing the Beatles and then and the 430 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: quote was a very simple one. They said that Bernstein 431 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: said turned to my friend and said, you came and 432 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: sold the Beatles. I can't wait to see them myself. 433 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: He said, I'm mad for them. And he just had 434 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: a passion for all desperate forms of music. He did, 435 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: and he really did love the Beatles a lot. And 436 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: we were so lucky as we were growing up because 437 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: I was a complete beatlemaniac and my dad loved their 438 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: music too, So together we would discover the Beatles, and 439 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: when they had a new album, I would run out 440 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: and get it and go straight to my father's studio 441 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: and say, look, look I've got Rubbers Old, and he'd said, great, 442 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: let's put it on right now, and we stick the 443 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: record on. And I learned more about music by listening 444 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: to the Beatles with my dad, and I think I 445 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: did any other way. You know, my dad passed away. 446 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: He was very young. My dad was only fifty five. 447 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: He was a year older than I am now. He 448 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: had a very rare form of cancer and he died 449 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: of lung cancer when he was fifty. And your dad 450 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: didn't live in a a very long life either. How old 451 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: were both of you when your dad passed away, Well, 452 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: he died at seventy two, which is not five you were, 453 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: and I was thirty nine, so you were so you 454 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: were grown adult people. But like you, our mother died 455 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: when she was fifty six, and we were much younger 456 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: when that happened. She died in night, so we were 457 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: in our early twenties and he died in so by 458 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: then we were you know, adults more or less. But 459 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,719 Speaker 1: when when our mother died, we were still a very 460 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: young family. Nina was only fifteen or something. But did 461 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: your mother die from lung cancer? A smoker? My point 462 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 1: is that your dad didn't live a very long life. 463 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: Did he die suddenly or did he get sick and 464 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: he knew he was in trouble he got he was 465 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: sick for like six months of being released. She was 466 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: diagnosed with Uh. He had all sorts of chess problems, sure, 467 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: you know, through his life, but it was it was 468 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 1: not cigarette related, which was probably an asbestos thing when 469 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: he was a kid. Who knows. I mean, it didn't 470 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: help it. He smoked obviously, but um, but you know, 471 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: just having the oxygen and stuff. That was the last, 472 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: you know, a month or so. He died in October, 473 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: and his last concert was at Tanglewood in August. Okay, 474 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: so you could barely get through. The last thing your 475 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: father conducted was a public performance seven. He did the 476 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: Beethoven seven at Tanglewood in August of nineteen and died 477 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: that October. I think about your dad and did he 478 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: just when he knew he was sick and he knew 479 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: it was in trouble healthful Because my dad knew he 480 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: was in trouble. I mean, there was a moment I 481 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: had with my dad where he like, he looked at 482 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: me with this look in his eye, like he knew 483 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,239 Speaker 1: it was over, and he and he just I mean, 484 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: he had a tear one down his face. And my 485 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: father said, I'll never know my grandchildren. And when I 486 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: when I when I think about this with your dad, 487 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: a guy like that, who had so much more he 488 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: wanted to do, did he ever express that too? Did 489 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: he ever talk about that he wasn't done? Yeah, he did, 490 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, And I think you know he had this 491 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: fantastic climactic moment at the very end of nine, the 492 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: year before he died, when he conducted at the Fall 493 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: of the Berlin Wall, and he did the ode to 494 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,959 Speaker 1: Joy and instead of singing Floyd which means joy, they 495 00:28:53,960 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: sang fly Height, which means freedom. It was such a 496 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: big deal for him to be there when the Berlin 497 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: Wall came down, and it was such a momentous occasion. 498 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: Where were you when that happened? I wish I had 499 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: been there, And in retrospect, I regret that I wasn't there. 500 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: But I had just given birth to my son, Evan, 501 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: like less than eight weeks earlier. That was my excuse. 502 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: So I watched it on the couch on Christmas Day 503 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: while I was nursing my infant son. I watched it 504 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: on TV because they showed the whole thing live broadcasting 505 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: about you. I don't even have an excuse, and I 506 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: can't remember why I didn't go. I can't believe that 507 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: I wasn't there. It's just unbelievable. You know, we didn't 508 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: know he was going to be gone within the year, 509 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: so you know, he was always there, and there were 510 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: always these occasions where you could go and meet him 511 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: on the road, and there were hundreds of them, and 512 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: it was kind of a pain to go get in 513 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: with that whole retinue and the whole madness of being 514 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: of the tour thing, and but did become entourage city. 515 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: You know, right after that, he got really sick with 516 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: the flu and it was like Christmas. And I remember 517 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: visiting him about a month later, less than a month 518 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: later in Key West, and he was just not feeling 519 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: right and he told me so, he said, I just 520 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: I'm not I don't feel right. That was the beginning 521 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: of the slow decline. And then things got a lot 522 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: worse in May, and then he just kind of struggled 523 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: through all his gigs over the summer and then barely 524 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: made it through that Beethoven seven. We were all in 525 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: the audience clutching each other's hands, like, is he gonna 526 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: make it? Is he going to make it? Because he 527 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: was What was his life like after your mom passed away? 528 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: The d didn't remarry, did he? Uh No, he did not, 529 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: And he it was why do you think he was 530 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: so miserable for a long time after she needed her, 531 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: He needed her, and he was just he wasn't for 532 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: a long long time until we went on vacation probably 533 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,239 Speaker 1: I don't know, eight months later or something like that, 534 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: and we sort of saw started seeing signs of of 535 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: a person again. Tell about what happened in Jamaica. After 536 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: the Christmas dinner and then we went to the bar 537 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: Oh my god. This was the vacation in Jamaica. A 538 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: bunch of our family and a couple of friends, and 539 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: we went down to the bar. They were probably a 540 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 1: couple of people in there. And he sits down at 541 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: the piano in the bar. And this was after dinner, 542 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: after you know, a lot of Scotch whatever, a lot 543 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: of wine, and he plays Rhapsody in Blue from beginning 544 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: to end. It was the most amazing performance you could 545 00:31:49,120 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: possibly imagine. I mean, you just ripped it. It was unforgettable. 546 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: And then that's kind of when I knew he was back, 547 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: just through the music he was. He tell you where 548 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: through the music? Oh my god. So um, obviously you 549 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: never married again. But why do you think you never 550 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: married again? You see a guy like that, You mean, 551 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: my god, he could have had any woman in New York. 552 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: He didn't have room in his life for that anymore. No, 553 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: And there was some men that he was very close to. 554 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: And uh, and would you say that once your mother 555 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: passed away, was your father's life as a bisexual man 556 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: that he just lived more vividly once your mother was 557 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: gone was much more, much, much more living color about it. 558 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: His his mother was still alive, and I think that 559 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: played a great role, and that was kind of a 560 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: governor there. That was kind of a governor. Yeah. And 561 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: then when she he still had a public it was 562 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: a different time. She outlived him. She was ninety two 563 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: when he died, and she said memorably, this will shorten 564 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: my life. Wow. And so he and so he. Do 565 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: you think that he kept that quiet and kept that 566 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: private not only because it was that that his nature 567 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: private nature. He sort of out sort of a few times. Uh, 568 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: And I think he was once he was hoping people 569 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: would take more notice of it than they did, I think, 570 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: but um, he didn't want his mother to have to 571 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: deal with it with her friends. And you know, people 572 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: talking about if he was alive now, how old diould 573 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: that be? If he was alive now, yes, centennial will be. 574 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: Who was someone? I mean, I'm sure that we're boundless 575 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: people because your father was very generous of heart. It 576 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: seems very passionate. But who were some of the people 577 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: other than Kuzowitski and Coping that we've covered before, Who 578 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: were some of the people that were contemporaries of your 579 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: father that you remember him speaking very glowingly about. Who 580 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: did he admire Lucas Foss would be one. They were 581 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: at Curtis together, that's where they met, and they stayed 582 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: friends and colleagues their entire lives. And Lucas was a 583 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: stupendous pianist in addition to being an excellent composer. So um, 584 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 1: he played our Dad's Age of Anxiety, which is a 585 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: sort of like a piano concerto, although it's called a symphony, 586 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: and and Lucas could just played a hell out of it. 587 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: And and our dad premiered many of Lucas's pieces with 588 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: the Philharmonic, and so that was he was one of them. 589 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: Michael Tilson Thomas was someone that our dad kind of 590 00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: nurtured along when he was to Kuzsky to a degree, Yes, 591 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: to a degree. Whose who else did here? Who else 592 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: did he? Mentor? Well? He was Mr Mentor to a 593 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: great degree. I think, Yeah, another guy with great hair, 594 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: great conduct nothing like that hair flying through the air 595 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: looks great. It's amazing how many great hair conductors there are. 596 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: So Ozawa right well, when he was conducting at the Philharmonic, 597 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 1: it was his relationship with Sondheim. Oh, that was a big, 598 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: big relationship, big friendship and colleague ship. You know, west 599 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: Side Story. All of them had this phenomenal success. Yeah. 600 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: Initially west Side Story was supposed to be if I'm 601 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: if I'm an Irish Jewish gang, Yeah, a low rest side. 602 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: It was going to the east Side. It was going 603 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: to rest side. Tempers would flare over the Eastern passover 604 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:58,240 Speaker 1: holidays right right right les versus the yeah yeah, something 605 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: like that. And then apparently Jerry rob And saw some 606 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: article about gang wars with Puerto Ricans in on the 607 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: Upper West Side, and he went, ding, you know the bulls, 608 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: Jerry it was I think it was Jerry or was 609 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 1: it always so? I don't know, Maybe it was. Arthur's 610 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: probably the most romantic line in the movie I've ever heard, 611 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: and it always brings me to tears when he turns 612 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: to where they have the moment of the dance, and 613 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: he turns to her and says, you're not lying to me, 614 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: are you? And she says, I have not yet learned 615 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: to lie about such things. That's right, I have not 616 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: yet learned to joke that way. I think now you're 617 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: not king. She says, you're not joking. I have not 618 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: yet given to me again, you say it? Here we 619 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: go a live performance go, you're not joking with me. 620 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: I have not yet learned to joke that way, I 621 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: think now. I never really there. And the reason we're 622 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: laughing is because there's a recording of our dad conducting 623 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: West Side Story for in the recording session, and he 624 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: got Alexander and my sister Nina to do that dialogue 625 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 1: so much to believe you're not joking me, I have 626 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: not yet learned how to joke that way. I think. No, 627 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: I never read. Now, speaking of films, your father only 628 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: composed I mean, other than them transferring The West Side 629 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: to a film, your father only composed one film score 630 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: and it was a hell of a film score? Esque 631 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: And why do you think he only did? Your father 632 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:30,760 Speaker 1: is someone I mean I see people. This is interesting 633 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: because I see so many people Billy Joe Sting. I mean, 634 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: you see Elton John make his foray into that. But 635 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: I see so many people who I think to myself, Billy, 636 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: especially who's a friend, I say, my god, you could 637 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: be doing so much music a movie score if you 638 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: wanted to, and they just don't. They don't have a 639 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 1: passion for why did your father just do the one? 640 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,720 Speaker 1: Do you think, well, because he really did not enjoy 641 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: the experience. Why because he was being bossed around. Because yeah, 642 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: well what happened. For the example he gave was that 643 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: he wrote, you know, the soaring music, that the dynamics 644 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: that he composed were all in his head and all 645 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: recorded a certain way, and then when they're mixing, they 646 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: just dunk the fader on it so that, as our 647 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: dad put it, so that you could hear Marlon Brando's 648 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: grunt and and and so just at the climactic moment 649 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: of his love music, you know, in the in the 650 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: final mix, they just dunked the fader. They would say, okay, 651 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: we need fifteen bars of passion and then you know, 652 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: thirty seconds of you know quick. And he just couldn't 653 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: write that that way. It was impossible. He and a 654 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: specific talent, but he just hated doing the work. You 655 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: have children. I have a daughter. If you have a daughter, 656 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: who's how old? She'll be fourteen in two weeks. You 657 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: have a daughter, it's fourteen, and what is she into? 658 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: What does she do? She's into her first year of 659 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: high school and uh, loving it. And she's into the 660 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: theater in a big way. She loves to Um. You're 661 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: raising your kids in the in the city or outside 662 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: the city. In the city, you're raising your daughter inside 663 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: the city. And she likes acting. She likes acting, but 664 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: she's also you know, she loves her English class and 665 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: history class, and her school and her friends and her 666 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: what about you have to have a daughter. Now they're 667 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: in their twenties, now they're in their My daughter, Frankie 668 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: lives in Brooklyn, she's a writer. And my son is 669 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: uh still in school up in the Berkshires. As a 670 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: matter of fact, he's up and he lives in Lee, Massachusetts. 671 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: And well, you know, for both of you, your children, 672 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously they know they didn't have to watch. 673 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: In their case, they weren't watching Leonard Burnstone. That wasn't 674 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: the cartoon, wasn't the gateway into an understanding of who 675 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: their grandfather was. But they know who he is, and 676 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: have you had and do they do? They have an 677 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: appetite and a passion to understand who he is and 678 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: see who he is. My kids don't. They're very careful 679 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: about sort of keeping their distance from that whole connection. 680 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: I think it makes them a little shy, a little 681 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: a little anxious, and so they don't they don't embrace 682 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: without getting too personal, because I have an opinion about 683 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: that because of my daughter. Well, what they want is 684 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: that they sense that celebrity has become so exponentially out 685 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 1: of control now and they prefer their privacy. If knowing 686 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: that I was related directly to Leonard Bernstein was going 687 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: to lead to something appropriate or comfortable or right, there 688 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: would be one thing. But nowadays everybody's after the wrong thing, 689 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: and that's really interesting. I mean I think about that 690 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: a lot because our father really loved being famous, and 691 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: we had fun with it, and it was just a 692 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: different type of thing in those days. It was different. 693 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,919 Speaker 1: It's more of an industry now, and he started seeing 694 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: that more and more starting in the eighties, and you 695 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 1: talked about it a lot, and he once said to me, 696 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 1: I'm so sick of Leonard Bernstein. I've had it with him. 697 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: I've always had a problem about time. But when I 698 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: had a problem about time at the age of five 699 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: or thirty, when you're still, at least in part, thinking 700 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: you're immortal and nothing's every good to change the way 701 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: you are, or abbreviated everything's all right. I mean, I 702 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: would go on concert tours and composed in the airport 703 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: or on the plane or on the train, or I 704 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: wrote half of the Age of Anxiety and airports and 705 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:45,479 Speaker 1: trains and hotels. I can't do that anymore, and it's 706 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: been sometime since I could. One of the reasons is one, 707 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: standards get higher and higher. Self identification with the composer 708 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 1: whose works you are performing become closer and closer. To 709 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: the point, are there our performances? Which are the ones 710 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: I call good performances, But I know it's been a 711 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: really good performance. It's one in which I have the 712 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: feeling I've written the piece standing there, and and when 713 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: it's over, I don't know where I'm standing. As he 714 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: grew older, Bernstein's connection to the music of Gustav Mahler, 715 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: whom he had championed throughout his career, became even stronger. 716 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,720 Speaker 1: I think he felt a deep association, I mean, apart 717 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,240 Speaker 1: from the music itself, obviously, an association with Mahler as 718 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: a conflicted musician mother being Jewish and in a Jewish world, 719 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: and being a tonal composer in an atonal more atonal world, 720 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:20,800 Speaker 1: becoming so being a European man who came to America. 721 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: You know that somebody from the classical tradition coming to 722 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: America and suddenly finding themselves in this crazy world. So 723 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: I think there was an affinity there. Plus, he was 724 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 1: the combination of composer and conductor, which there aren't that 725 00:43:39,520 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 1: many of. I would love to have known your father. 726 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: Your father is was so singular and remains so singular 727 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: because number one, whenever he came on, I was happy, 728 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: And whenever he came on, I was excited, and he 729 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 1: never disappointed me. And when I would see him, I'd say, 730 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: what you get from Bernstein, you can only get from Bernstein. 731 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: He was the original in his field. Leonard Bernstein's children, 732 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: Jamie and Alexander, say their father was so original in 733 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: part because he just never stopped celebrating music, celebrating live. 734 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: He was a terrible insomniac. I think that's probably why 735 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: I managed to squeeze in so much action. He was 736 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 1: always at it. You know. I wish she was around 737 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: here and I could have hung out together. Oh I'm 738 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 1: an insomniac. And could you imagine watching YouTube together? Could 739 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: have come over at four am and you could have 740 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: hung out. God, but you could have been watching old 741 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,720 Speaker 1: movies together, and you would have gone to the piano 742 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,760 Speaker 1: and played all the old Bernard Hermann scores. Yes, everything. 743 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin. To learn more about Leonard Bernstein 744 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: and Artful Learning, an educational organization that his son Alex spearheads, 745 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: go to Here's the Thing dot org