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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to blow your Mind from how stop

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hey you wasn't discussable your mind. My

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Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and boy

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Speaker 1: do we have a treat for you today because Robert

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Speaker 1: and I saw Alien Covenant this past weekend, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: on a Saturday, wasn't Yeah, it was. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to try to avoid major plot spoilers, but this episode

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Speaker 1: today is going to uh spring off of an idea

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Speaker 1: that came up when we were watching the movie. So

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Speaker 1: we are going to talk about the movie a little

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Speaker 1: in more general terms. But if you absolutely cannot bear

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Speaker 1: to hear anything at all until you see it, you

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Speaker 1: might want to pause here and come back once you've

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Speaker 1: seen it. Like I said, no specific plot spoilers, but

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've got to talk about the movie, right yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I don't agree with me talking about

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Speaker 1: any more depth than you would get out of the

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Speaker 1: trailers for it. And there were so many trailers for

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Speaker 1: this film. I feel yeah, I feel like this was

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Speaker 1: the most part of it. May just be those sort

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Speaker 1: of the algorithms of YouTube advertisements, but I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was absolutely bombarded to the point where I just

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Speaker 1: really wanted to respond and say like, look, I I'm

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Speaker 1: on board, I'm gonna see it. Just stop making me

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Speaker 1: watch trailers for it, because I'm gonna it's gonna reach

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Speaker 1: the point where I'm gonna start losing interest. So Ridley

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Speaker 1: Scott did the same thing with Prometheus where he didn't

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Speaker 1: just do trailers, but he did scenes that take place

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Speaker 1: before the movie starts. Sit with him and that thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think maybe part of it just

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Speaker 1: like shooting a lot of footage, and then with this

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Speaker 1: film in particular, I felt like there was this is

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Speaker 1: so one of the things with the film, like Alien Covenant,

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Speaker 1: is that by no means was just a small movie.

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Speaker 1: This is a large studio production. And and over the

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Speaker 1: years Ridley Scott has has proven himself one of these

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Speaker 1: directors who knows how he has the clout to work

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Speaker 1: within that system, but he seems to know how to

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Speaker 1: to cater to expectations like you don't not that I

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Speaker 1: follow this kind of thing just religiously, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember every hearing stories about Ridley Scott's battle

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Speaker 1: with the studio over something like he seems to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it may have happened that. I don't recall hearing about that.

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Speaker 1: It's not like hearing about David Fincher's struggles on Alien

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Speaker 1: three with Fox. Yeah, and part of that is him

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Speaker 1: having cloud. You know, he's Ridley Scott. He's essentially, you know,

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Speaker 1: a living legend of of the cinema. But but I

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Speaker 1: also get the sense that he is willing to he's

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Speaker 1: willing to work. He's willing to adjust that or to

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Speaker 1: um to to to adjust the settings, the trajectory on that,

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Speaker 1: on that that vision he has in order to see

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Speaker 1: it to the theater. What you're saying is he'll play ball. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I get the impression that he's a he's a guy

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Speaker 1: who will play ball. Okay, So here's so it is

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Speaker 1: an alien movie. I will say it's an alien movie

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Speaker 1: in the Alien franchise. That actually felt kind of like

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Speaker 1: an alien movie. And here's my short review. Almost all

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Speaker 1: the things I can think of to say about it

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Speaker 1: are criticisms. I felt that it had really similar problems

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Speaker 1: with Prometheus. With the script, the human characters are underdeveloped.

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Speaker 1: Their personalities and motivations didn't seem to be consistent from

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Speaker 1: one scene to another. Parts of the plot definitely went on.

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Speaker 1: And this is a cliche I hate to use it,

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Speaker 1: but it is the best descriptive term for it. It

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Speaker 1: was on autopilot in certain parts, but I just really

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Speaker 1: liked it. I enjoyed it nonetheless, despite all that it

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Speaker 1: was beautiful to look at. Of course, Ridley Scott's always

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Speaker 1: a great set designer, great at the visual aspect of

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Speaker 1: his movies, creative and interesting things to explore. In the

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Speaker 1: first half at least, I love the gleeful sense of

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Speaker 1: body horror repaired with this classically ponderous mad scientist vibe,

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Speaker 1: especially in the mid section of the movie. And Michael

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Speaker 1: Fastbender is just heroically fun so to the extent this

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Speaker 1: makes any sense, I felt like the movie was somehow

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Speaker 1: both stupid and an intensely pleasing work of art. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well this actually this in ways lines up with some

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Speaker 1: of my feelings about it. It was definitely for me

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Speaker 1: a film that I saw it, I wasn't sure how

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Speaker 1: I felt about it, but I keep thinking about it

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Speaker 1: every day since I saw it, and and I feel like,

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Speaker 1: for me at this point in my life and only

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Speaker 1: the way I interact with films like that's how I

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Speaker 1: tend to judge it is it something more than like

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Speaker 1: the structural completeness of a film, or the or the

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Speaker 1: character motivations and the character development, Like is there something

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Speaker 1: in the movie that I came back to because there's

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Speaker 1: for instance, there's so many just sort of paint by

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Speaker 1: number of superhero films, and there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: fun I enjoy seeing them, but it's well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm into them. I get excited about him. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to say, see the next Guardians of the Galaxy film

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Speaker 1: whenever it's you know, I can watch it on an

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Speaker 1: airplane or however it comes together. I enjoy seeing them,

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Speaker 1: and then I don't. I don't chew on them afterwards.

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Speaker 1: They kind of go in in in, one year out

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Speaker 1: the other kind of right. So with Alien Covenant, I

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Speaker 1: kept thinking about in terms of of of Scott's vision

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Speaker 1: for this film and the fact that he you know,

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Speaker 1: like we said, well play ball um. Because it's because

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Speaker 1: just as the the Malevolent Organism and the Alien series

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Speaker 1: draws its form via the life forms that it annihilates,

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Speaker 1: so too does Alien Covets Covenant Seema a chimerical beast.

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Speaker 1: So it's a it's a Prometheus sequel and Body, but

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Speaker 1: with appindages that call back to Aliens Alien three, even

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Speaker 1: a dash of a VP and there for good measure,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the monster's form varies, enabling the creature

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Speaker 1: to better consume it's victims, but the genetic mission remains

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Speaker 1: the same. This you know, unstoppable will of weaponized evolution,

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Speaker 1: created and recreated by those who would take on the

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Speaker 1: mantle of gods. And it's such really Scott, I feel

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Speaker 1: like he allowed Covenants form to encompass fan and studio

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Speaker 1: demands for more, for more monsters, for dashes of past

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Speaker 1: installments in the franchise, but still at its heart, it's

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Speaker 1: a Prometheus sequel. It's the the second installment in a

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Speaker 1: new film Mark that one commentator on called called quote

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Speaker 1: a weirdly religious science fiction universe. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm me personally, I love both space horror and virtually

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Speaker 1: anything that's weirdly religious, So you know, I'm on this

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Speaker 1: bull's eye for me to h Yeah. I love it

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Speaker 1: though with I mean the those aspects you mentioned, I

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Speaker 1: love that they're all there, but they also, um would

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Speaker 1: you say, so many of them are not followed through

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Speaker 1: on It's almost like they set something up to happen

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Speaker 1: in the movie and then it just never happened. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I would be interested to learn more about

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Speaker 1: sort of the behind the scenes and what was added,

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Speaker 1: what was changed, because for instance, there's a there's a

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Speaker 1: shower scene not to not just spill anything later in

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Speaker 1: the film, and it's very a VP, and it feels

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Speaker 1: feels a bit tacked on. It's like the moment it goes.

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Speaker 1: Multiple reviewers have commented on this that at some point

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Speaker 1: the movie suddenly becomes a slasher movie. It's like a

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Speaker 1: Friday movie for a few minutes, and that's sort of

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Speaker 1: how it felt to me. Yeah, and uh, and I

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Speaker 1: also have to say that when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: characters of this film, like really, this is a film

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Speaker 1: about two androids and uh and and to a and

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Speaker 1: to a lesser extent, a third character who is Um,

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Speaker 1: who is sort of like the associate captain who ends

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Speaker 1: up taking over the Billy credit character. Uh. Everyone else

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Speaker 1: is is far less developed. But at the core, I

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Speaker 1: mean a film about to androids sort of struggling to

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Speaker 1: figure out like where they stand in relationship to the

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Speaker 1: to these these these lesser creators are they are there

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Speaker 1: there there their guardians or are they there destroyers and

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Speaker 1: know I'm I'm I'm all on board of that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, okay, so we got to get into

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Speaker 1: the meat of the episode. But one final comment about

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Speaker 1: the movie. Do you think they're ever going to stop

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Speaker 1: with the the title format of franchise named colon abstract now?

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Speaker 1: And I'm so sick of it. Alien Resurrection, Alien Coming,

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Speaker 1: and all the franchises do it now. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, uh, Terminator, Genesis whatever. It makes me feel

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Speaker 1: like the next one is going to be called like

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Speaker 1: Alien Gamification. It just feels like such a product I hated.

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Speaker 1: I wish they could give each movie its own title. Well,

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Speaker 1: the last one was Prometheus, so thumbs up for that.

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Speaker 1: I get the feeling that it is about tying everything

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Speaker 1: into this overarching brand. Yeah, I think it's just to

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Speaker 1: get people in the theaters. And I mean sometimes we

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Speaker 1: use the NOWNI nown colon additional keywords, uh template when

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Speaker 1: say titling episodes of this podcast, because a part of

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Speaker 1: it is like I've only got so much space and

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Speaker 1: I really need to convey what this is about. So

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Speaker 1: Alien's Colon Covenant that lets you know that it's going

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Speaker 1: to involve aliens, it's gonna involve Colon's, involve something quasi religious,

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Speaker 1: and that's all you need to know. But if we

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Speaker 1: were to really follow this format, every episode of ours,

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Speaker 1: somebody called something like stuff to blow your mind colon respiration,

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Speaker 1: which is sort of what we're gonna get into today. So,

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Speaker 1: without spoiling anything significant about the plot, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: point out something this movie movie has in common with Prometheus.

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Speaker 1: So it's got space explorers, that's no surprise. Astronauts go

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Speaker 1: into other planets and they just plunge their faces straight

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Speaker 1: into the atmosphere and biosphere of an alien planet without protection.

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Speaker 1: And Prometheus they are these scenes where they take their

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Speaker 1: helmets off for no reason I can really remember. I

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Speaker 1: think they're just for the heck of it. In Covenant,

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Speaker 1: they just walk out of their landing vehicle without suits

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Speaker 1: of any kind. There. They just weren some hats and

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Speaker 1: some overcoats. Now, I'm fine with characters behaving irrationally or

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Speaker 1: unrealistically in horror or in sci fi movies. I think

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty common element and I'm okay with it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean basically the whole movie Covenant, it begins with

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Speaker 1: a hey, should we go check this out? Scenario? Like

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Speaker 1: so many horror films, And if your characters were smart

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Speaker 1: enough to stay on the path, right, then they would

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Speaker 1: never we would have no movie because what was that

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Speaker 1: noise in the bushes? And most horror stories are about

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Speaker 1: going off the path? Should we go off the path?

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Speaker 1: Should we go explore that? And yeah, you don't do that,

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Speaker 1: you never get out of the boat. But if you

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Speaker 1: never got out of the boat, we would have no film, right,

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Speaker 1: So I'm fine with that happening, providing that I get

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Speaker 1: provided that there's some consistent level of realism. Most modern

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Speaker 1: sci fi movies I would say, have a very healthy

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Speaker 1: dose of fantasy in them. And that's just one expression

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Speaker 1: of that here. But today we wanted to explore the

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Speaker 1: topic of why, if you're an actual exoplanet colonist or explorer,

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Speaker 1: you really shouldn't want to take your helmet off or

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Speaker 1: otherwise open yourself up to the alien environment and in

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Speaker 1: the sea of unknown possibilities that could come flooding in

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Speaker 1: upon you. Right. Uh. One thing to keep in mind

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Speaker 1: here is that that we we're definitely looking at why

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Speaker 1: you should keep that that helmet on and the dangers

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Speaker 1: that are inherent to any any kind of alien environment

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Speaker 1: we might experience. However, I feel like an important caveat

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Speaker 1: to all this is that anytime we're looking at a

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Speaker 1: fictional people landing on a fictional world taking their helmet off,

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Speaker 1: I always have to wonder, Okay, would any sufficiently advanced

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Speaker 1: civilization capable of not only interplanetary but interstellar travel, would

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Speaker 1: they have all that worked out? Like, would they have

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Speaker 1: sufficient scanning technology to know just like down to the

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Speaker 1: finest detail that the air was breathable? Uh? Well, without

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Speaker 1: spoiling too much about Alien Covenant, obviously they don't know that.

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Speaker 1: But they're also religious fanatics. Not to have played David's

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Speaker 1: advocate too much, but but they are. They are driven

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Speaker 1: by religious optimism in that film. So what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: Robert is you're a little more gung ho. I think

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Speaker 1: maybe you're saying, breathe in, breathe in, Brothers. I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: that if the if your technology is not picking it up,

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Speaker 1: if there's a danger out there that you're interstellar technology

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Speaker 1: is incapable of picking up on, let it act fast.

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Speaker 1: Because movies movie movies like Alien Covenant show it's like

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Speaker 1: there's no there's no real victory, and being a survivor,

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Speaker 1: it's better to be that that individual that gets that

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Speaker 1: has something jump out of him rather quickly. Right, at

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Speaker 1: least you go out with a with a burst. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a big, chesty burst. Okay, Well, so maybe we should

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Speaker 1: start by just acknowledging the concept of a space suit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of it's kind of easy to forget why

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Speaker 1: we have them because we end up just focusing on

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Speaker 1: how cool they look most of the time. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: a space suit is I think I remember reading a

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Speaker 1: NASA resource at some point a long time ago that

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Speaker 1: put it like this, and it was it's a spacecraft

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Speaker 1: for one person. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Uh. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, the extra vehicular mobility units that are worn

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Speaker 1: by astronauts. When you've got to go outside and perform

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Speaker 1: external work on the International Space Station and do a spacewalk,

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Speaker 1: you put this suit on and it cools your body.

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Speaker 1: It Uh. It supplies you with oxygen and breathable atmosphere.

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Speaker 1: It purges the CEO two that you exhale when you're

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Speaker 1: out there. Uh. It shields you from radiation, It shields

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Speaker 1: you from impacts from space debris. So, and these are

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Speaker 1: all very important things. But another important aspect of any

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Speaker 1: type of suit for extra vehicular activity when you're out

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Speaker 1: exploring the cosmos is that it's a contained environment. It's

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Speaker 1: supposed to create a sealed barrier between external conditions and

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Speaker 1: internal conditions. So this sort of means making the inside

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Speaker 1: of the suit as earth like as possible, no matter

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Speaker 1: what the outside of the suit is. And of course

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Speaker 1: this would also mean keeping out things that really just

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Speaker 1: don't go well with your Earth adapted biology, for example,

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Speaker 1: for and dust, gas, particles, radiation, and potentially life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it comes back to the idea of like the spacecraft itself,

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Speaker 1: it's it's the idea that we as humans evolved not

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Speaker 1: only to live on Earth, but to live within a

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Speaker 1: very um thin portion of the atmosphere and under very

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Speaker 1: specific environmental settings. And uh and and so there are

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Speaker 1: places on our own Earth whereof we we go, we perish,

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Speaker 1: and therefore we have to we have to bring part

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Speaker 1: of our world with us, even if it's just a

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Speaker 1: skin layer in a suit. Yeah. Now I can totally

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Speaker 1: understand the impulse to want to take the space suit off.

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Speaker 1: I can imagine if I was somebody colonizing an exoplanet

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Speaker 1: that was, you know, that we thought would be habitable,

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Speaker 1: that we could start living there. Obviously, protocols would be

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Speaker 1: to maintain that seal, to to keep the quarantine as

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Speaker 1: long as there was any doubt whatsoever that what was

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Speaker 1: outside could hurt us. But you just can't live that way, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, anytime you go outside, you've got to wear

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Speaker 1: the suit. You you can't touch the rocks and the trees,

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Speaker 1: You can't interact by contact, by respiration, by anything except

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Speaker 1: through this barrier with the planet you live on. And

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Speaker 1: that sounds like a horrible existence. Well, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you know, environmental standards are changing a little every day, Joe,

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Speaker 1: So we'll check to get back in on this in

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Speaker 1: a few years. Yeah. So, I guess now we should

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Speaker 1: get into the five reasons that we've come up with,

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Speaker 1: at least why you should really not want to take

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Speaker 1: your helmet off on an alien planet. This would be

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Speaker 1: a good list to have, you know, in in in

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Speaker 1: reduced form as a sticker on the inside of your helmet.

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Speaker 1: And then if when you're tempted to, when you're overcome

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Speaker 1: by the beauty of uh, you know, exo planet. I

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Speaker 1: love it when an exo planet has a nice diabolical

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Speaker 1: name like uh in Furness b yeah or Manta Bolga six,

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Speaker 1: you know whatever it happens to be. When you when

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Speaker 1: you in there and you think, ah, this place with

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Speaker 1: this uh this creepy name is actually rather beautiful. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get a breath of fresh air. Look to the

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Speaker 1: lower left hand portion of your visor and go through

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Speaker 1: this list, Pope satan Alpi six e. Alright, so reason

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Speaker 1: number one is going to be the obvious one, the

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Speaker 1: one that you probably don't even need to think about.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be atmospheric gas. Can I breathe this atmosphere

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Speaker 1: that I am seemingly moving through? And we should be generous?

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Speaker 1: This is one that sci fi almost always takes care of.

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Speaker 1: There's a line in the script where somebody says, atmospheric

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Speaker 1: conditions nominal the air, we can breathe it. But it's

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Speaker 1: worth looking at what the atmospheres of other planets generally

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Speaker 1: look like. Jean Paul Starchers said, you know, Hell is

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Speaker 1: other people once you start looking beyond Earth. I propose

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Speaker 1: an update, which is Hell is other people's planets, because

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Speaker 1: we are just so tightly adapted to the earth biosphere

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Speaker 1: and and and it's very particular balance of gases, and

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Speaker 1: to upset that balance significantly would be to change the

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Speaker 1: properties of Earth and thus to change the biosphere. So

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Speaker 1: we need our atmosphere to be the way it is

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Speaker 1: seventy eight percent nitrogen, one percent oxygen, about point nine

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Speaker 1: percent are gone, and point one percent trace gases primarily

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Speaker 1: carbon dioxide, plus a lot of variation in water vapor

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Speaker 1: in the air. Now, we don't know exactly what the

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Speaker 1: atmospheres of terrestrial exoplanets are going to be. We know

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Speaker 1: we can see some gas giants orbiting other stars in

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Speaker 1: the galaxy, and those of course are going to be

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Speaker 1: composed generally like gas giants are like, they'll have hydrogen

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Speaker 1: and helium atmospheres. But as far as the terrestrial exoplanets

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Speaker 1: are go out there, we we don't know exactly what

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Speaker 1: their atmospheres are going to be like. If you look

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Speaker 1: at other terrestrial planets in our Solar system, you do

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Speaker 1: start to get a picture that might be local to us,

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Speaker 1: But we don't know Venus atmospheres about carbon dioxide, yeah,

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Speaker 1: not good, not so nice. Mars has an incredibly thin atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, a one percent or kind of atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: and what's there is about nine carbon dioxide. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: of course with venus to the reality is that if

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Speaker 1: you're breathing that on the surface, you're essentially standing in

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Speaker 1: a pressure cooker too, so so yeah, But but you're

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Speaker 1: just talking about just the breatheability of the the air, right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And even if you arrived on Earth at a different

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Speaker 1: point in Earth's history, you would have encountered a very

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Speaker 1: different atmosphere. But the primeval surface of Earth, say about

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Speaker 1: four billion years ago, we also had an atmosphere of

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Speaker 1: much higher CEO two concentration. Before the biogenic oxygenation of

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Speaker 1: Earth about two billion years ago you had the original terraforming. Now,

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Speaker 1: carbon dioxide is obviously not good to breathe. That is

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Speaker 1: what you exhale. It's a waste product of of human respiration,

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Speaker 1: and breathing it in can lead to bad effects at

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Speaker 1: low concentrates, and death or asphyxiation or poisoning at high concentrations.

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Speaker 1: I found an interesting chart put together based on research

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Speaker 1: on carbon dioxide toxicity, and the chart was made by

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Speaker 1: the International Volcanic Health Hazard Network and it's got a

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Speaker 1: sort of ascending scale of c O two concentration in

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Speaker 1: the air you're breathing, and what the effects would be.

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Speaker 1: So they say, you know, two to three percent of air,

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Speaker 1: you're not really going to notice what's going on, but

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Speaker 1: there will be a shortness of breath if you exert yourself.

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Speaker 1: If at three percent exposure, you're breathing gets deeper, uh,

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Speaker 1: three to five percent exposure, you're breathing, rhythm speeds up

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Speaker 1: and you might get headaches. At five percent exposure, your

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Speaker 1: breathing gets really labored. You're gonna have headaches, sweating, heavy pulse.

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Speaker 1: At seven point five percent exposure, you're gonna have really

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Speaker 1: rapid breathing, increased heart rate, headaches, sweating, dizziness, shortness of breath,

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Speaker 1: loss of strengthen the muscles, probably some mental fuzziness, like

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Speaker 1: inability to work things out in your head. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: get sleepy and hear ringing in your ears. At eight

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Speaker 1: you get the really bad stuff vertigo, vomiting, loss of consciousness, uh,

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Speaker 1: possibly death in this range, and then at you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have convulsions, rapid loss of consciousness and death. Of course,

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Speaker 1: this is a situation too in control environments where the

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Speaker 1: CEO two level can can creep up if if things

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Speaker 1: are are are out of wax stays in a submarine environment, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or in the space Shuttle or this or like the

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Speaker 1: Apollo spacecraft. If you don't have your CEO too scrubbers

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Speaker 1: working you, you are in for a world of pain.

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Speaker 1: And so, as we said earlier, this is something the

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Speaker 1: sci fi movies usually do address. They're not just gonna

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Speaker 1: land on a planet with the carbon dioxide atmosphere, opened

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Speaker 1: the doors and say breathe in. Well, unless it's I

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Speaker 1: feel like it. It It happened all the time. And track though,

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Speaker 1: right what they beamed down somewhere and they couldn't breathe.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's been a long time

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Speaker 1: since I've really mainline some trek, but it seems like

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Speaker 1: they're always just breathing the heck out of any atmosphere

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Speaker 1: they came across, like every world was breathable. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: maybe there's a maybe there was always an explanation or

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Speaker 1: maybe there's you know, some sort of transhumanist read where

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Speaker 1: they've all had like an operation that makes them able

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Speaker 1: to breathe carbon dioxide. Yeah, like if if this were

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Speaker 1: Banks's Culture series. I'm sure that would be the explanation. Well, Okay,

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Speaker 1: they're members of the culture and their their body is

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Speaker 1: automatically adjusting to some different atmospheric condition. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: wanna posit that you should still be careful here. So

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Speaker 1: imagine you are in this sci fi spaceship and you've

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Speaker 1: arrived at a planet and they analyzed the atmosphere. Hopefully

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Speaker 1: they've analyzed it before you went to the planet, because

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Speaker 1: they can do that via the spectral analysis of the

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Speaker 1: colors of light that reflect off of it. But you

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Speaker 1: should arrive there and well you arrive there and they say, okay,

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Speaker 1: oxygen atmosphere, you can breathe it, it still might not

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Speaker 1: be safe to take that suit off, even just in

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Speaker 1: terms of atmospheric gas, because even though ambient carbon dioxide

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Speaker 1: levels might not be at a concentration to cause poisoning

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Speaker 1: or asphyxiation, there could be other possibilities of localized events.

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Speaker 1: So one thing I want to point out is on

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Speaker 1: August twenty one nine, there was one of the weirdest

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Speaker 1: and most tragic natural disasters in modern history, and this

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Speaker 1: was near Lake Nyos in Cameroon, and Robert I think

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Speaker 1: you've probably read about this before. I believe there's a

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Speaker 1: House to Works article on this. There is, there is.

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Speaker 1: This is one of the things I looked at. So,

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Speaker 1: Lake Nios is a crater lake. It's resulting from volcanic

405
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Speaker 1: eruption several hundred years ago, and on this day in

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Speaker 1: August ninety six, the lake suddenly exploded. The lake exploded,

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Speaker 1: sending towers of water up into the air, and it

408
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Speaker 1: produced this cloud of gas that rushed out of the

409
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Speaker 1: lake into the surrounding countryside, and it ended up killing

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Speaker 1: more than seventeen hundred people in the nearby town of Nios.

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Speaker 1: Nearly every person was killed. Only six people survived, and

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Speaker 1: the killer was carbon dioxide. Now, lakes and volcanic craters

413
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Speaker 1: often accumulate dissolved carbon dioxide in the water, but in

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Speaker 1: most cases it gets absorbed into the atmosphere more gradually,

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Speaker 1: right it rises up and gets released. In this case,

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Speaker 1: it looks like what happened is that the water under

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Speaker 1: high pressure at the bottom of this lake began to

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Speaker 1: accumulate more and more dissolved CEO two it really high

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Speaker 1: concentrations without ever releasing it. And then some unknown event

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Speaker 1: could have been a small earthquake or in anything. It

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Speaker 1: caused the lake to suddenly release all that carbon dioxide

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Speaker 1: at once, and this massive cloud of poison gas that

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Speaker 1: traveled at about sixty miles per hour across the surface

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Speaker 1: of the land. So fortunately now that lake has de

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Speaker 1: gassing pipes and it's got an alarm system that monitors

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Speaker 1: the c O two at the bottom of the lake water,

427
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: meaning you can prevent something like this from happening in

428
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: the future. But it goes to show that local atmospheric

429
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: conditions can be altered in a very deadly way at

430
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: a moment's notice. So if you're walking around on a

431
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: rocky alien planet with breathable oxygen atmosphere, should you also

432
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 1: consider the frequency and location of geological outgassing of this type? Yeah? Yeah,

433
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: this sounds very much like a planet that might be

434
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: encountered in the chronicles of Riddick World, like a a

435
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: a regular you know, occurrence that they can sort of

436
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: plan the action scene around. Yeah, like, oh, everybody, since

437
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: you start going off. It starts going off because of

438
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: a big CEO two surge is about to occur, and

439
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: then they're having to stop in the fight sequence and

440
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: get their masks on. Can I admit something you're probably

441
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: gonna hate me for was that I've never seen a

442
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: Riddick movie. Oh, You've got a remedy to this joke,

443
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: at least with the first two. Yeah, how many are

444
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: there is? So wait it's it's pitch Black Chronicles Narnia

445
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: of Riddic Chronicles of Narnia rita, uh and what else?

446
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: There's more after I think that the third one is

447
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: just Riddick, and then then it's just ridd It's gonna

448
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: be rid It or Dick. And the next one, I guess, um, yeah,

449
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: I mean the first one. The first one is a

450
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: fun action film with some cool critters in it. Uh,

451
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 1: And many people hold it up just as an objectively

452
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: you know, good sci fi action flick monsters. Yeah, and

453
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: the monsters are good in that one. The second one

454
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: is a bit silly, a little flash Gordiny. But but

455
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: I actually probably enjoyed that one the most just because

456
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: it plays it plays two things I like, and the

457
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: kind of a goofy um a space opera scenario. Yeah,

458
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: and the villain And that one's really good too. Yeah yeah, okay,

459
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: I'll have to check it out. But they often encounter

460
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: the scenario where like in the first one, the whole

461
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: deal is that the planet has these uh, these these

462
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: plot uh centric periods of light and darkness, and the

463
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: monsters only come out at night. But when they make

464
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: the next one, they should definitely consider a a an

465
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: explosive CEO two planet because I can I can picture

466
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: it working beautifully. Well, that is one thing I guess

467
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: we don't know. So in this episode we're going to

468
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: be raising things that could be possibilities on unknown planets,

469
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: but we don't really know if there are planets out

470
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: there where there is very frequent CEO two out gassing

471
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: all over the planet. On Earth, this can't happen, and

472
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: we've just shown examples of how it can be deadly,

473
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: but it doesn't happen all that often. It's not like

474
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: if you're just generally landing on the surface, you'd expect

475
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: to encounter that, because, yeah, you can imagine a scenario

476
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: in which this is this is every day. This is

477
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: just a regular part of life on Chernobyl six or

478
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: whatever the name of the planet is, and a human

479
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: is just not going to be evolved to survive that,

480
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: right uh. And and it is something that you might

481
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: expect to happen on geologically active planets all over the place.

482
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: So you've got an icy mantle, it's got materials in

483
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: it like a CEO two or sulfur dioxide that erupting

484
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: clouds the dispersed on the surface. And it's true on Earth,

485
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: lots of the deaths that are due to volcanic eruptions

486
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: and other geologic events like that are not always from

487
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: the things you think of like lava flows, mud and

488
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: pyroclastic flows and ash fall, but due to poison gas,

489
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: inhalation and suffocation. And you can even see that there

490
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: are other objects in our Solar system that have eruptions

491
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: like this, like Jupiter's moon, Io is incredibly geologically active

492
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: as full of volcanoes on its surface that erupt with

493
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: sulfurous glee. Yeah, and on this other world they just

494
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: might be used to it. I'm reminded of the scene

495
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: on The Simpsons where Marge just casually it's a Treehouse

496
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: of Horror episode where March just casually says, oh, it's

497
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: the fog that turns people inside out, creeping in, you know,

498
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: and and in this world, yeah, that's just the fog

499
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: that turns people inside out. It just happens every now

500
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: and then. It's just how life goes. And uh, either

501
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: you're you're evolved to uh to roll with the punches

502
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: or you're not. That's they sing a song though. They

503
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: just one sniff of that fog and you're side out. Yeah,

504
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: it's a big dance number with a dog in it. Yeah,

505
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: and coming going after Abe Simpson's exposed Visra. Yeah, it's

506
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: good times anyway. Okay, well, there are some possibilities, but

507
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 1: I think we should take a quick break and when

508
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: we come back we will look at probably the biggest

509
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: thing to consider. All Right, we're back, so Robert, we

510
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: assume that the gases of the atmosphere on our exoplanet

511
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: are safe. We we want to explore or colonize. We've

512
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: thoroughly checked it out. It has a breathable atmosphere with

513
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: oxygen we've checked as geological activity. It's not going to

514
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: be belching poison gas on us constantly wherever we land.

515
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: We're we're pretty confident about the gas quality itself. Should

516
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: we just take the helmet off now? Well, then we're

517
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: getting into yeah that the next big worry is going

518
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: to be what if there's some something in the air

519
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 1: some sort of life form, be it alien spores, some

520
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: sort of alien disease. I have no idea what I'm

521
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: about to breathe in, right, right, So this is reason

522
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: number two pathogens. Obviously, it's not going to be spoiling

523
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: much about Alien Covenant to say that this plays a

524
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: role in there. It's there in the trailers. You know

525
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: what aliens about. But in our so are we. We

526
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: did a live episode from September last year which was

527
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blew Your Mind Live. Actually, we put the

528
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: franchise title before the colon and that one they did,

529
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: we did Stuff to your Mind Live colon something about

530
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: Strike Trek I think was the title. I mean, so

531
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: many crows today, man. So yeah, it was Stuff to

532
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: Blew your Mind Live Prime directives and planetary contamination, and

533
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: what we talked about in that episode was uh NASA

534
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: protocols for preventing cross contamination of life forms between different planets,

535
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: and that that follows up on Article nine of the

536
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: United Nations Outer Space Treaty, which contains the following language.

537
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: Parties to the Treaty shall pursue studies of outer space,

538
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: including the Moon and other celestial bodies, to conduct exploration

539
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: of them so as to avoid their harmful contamination and

540
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: also adverse changes in the environment of Earth resulting from

541
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: the introduction of extraterrestrial matter, and we're necessary shall adopt

542
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: appropriate measures for this purpose. Yeah, and this comes down

543
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: to the idea that, sure, if we went to the

544
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: Klingon homeworld, maybe we couldn't catch the Klingon flu or

545
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: whatever the kind of element it happens to be. Maybe,

546
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: but it could. But maybe even if we couldn't, Yeah,

547
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: what could we do? Right? Yeah? But the idea too

548
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: is that we only have this one model of life,

549
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: and we have to sort of work forward with the

550
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: assumption that any kind of life that evolves in another

551
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: world is going to be uh, is the potential to

552
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: be a comfortable system? Right, we even if we couldn't

553
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: get germs from them, what if we could give germs

554
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: to them? So yeah, those are the two primary concerns mentioned,

555
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: their forward contamination and bat contamination. Forward contamination is this

556
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: ethical scientific concern against contaminating other planets with Earth life,

557
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: which could potentially harm any microbes that already exists there

558
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: or obviously larger organisms. But if there is anything like

559
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: that around us, we don't see it or it could

560
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: be damaging the integrity of future scientific re search on

561
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: that planet or moon, Like if you want to go

562
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: there later and try to figure out if there's any

563
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: indigenous life, you might have ruined your chances if you

564
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: spread Earth life all over it. But the other concern

565
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: is more akin to what we're looking at today, which

566
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: is back contamination, and this is based more on self preservation.

567
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: We don't want to endanger Earth life by accidentally returning

568
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: alien pathogens or other dangerous life forms to our home planet. Now.

569
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: Of course, the primary relevance of this in the Outer

570
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: Space Treaty and in NASA protocols is the planets that

571
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: are within reach of us, right which, as far as

572
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: we can tell, look fairly devoid of life. We we

573
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: might get a surprise, but we're not seeing anything running

574
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: around on the surface. What would happen if we tried

575
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: to apply the bio containment principles to a planet that's

576
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: obviously teeming with life. If we go to an alien

577
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: world and there's stuff all over the surface that's reproducing,

578
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: should we feel safe to go down and walk around

579
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: with the helmet off and take in some air. I

580
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: would say maybe not. No, you know, Okay, Well, there

581
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: is an article that I wanted to talk about I

582
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: found in Astrobiology magazine, and that's a magazine about the

583
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: the hypothetical study of of astro you know, applying astronomy

584
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: principles to other life forms around the around the galaxy.

585
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: Obviously we don't know whether they exist, so it's all

586
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: a lot of hypothetical stuff. But it also deals with

587
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: the origins of life on Earth and microbial environments and

588
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: things like that. And the articles called alien Infection by

589
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: Leslie Mullen from August two thousand three, and uh it

590
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: draws in some thoughts on the subject of whether we

591
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: could be infected by alien pathogens on another planet. So

592
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: it cites the American astrobiologist Christopher F. Chiba, and at

593
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: the time he held the Carl Sagan Chair at ST

594
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: Now he's a professor at Princeton. Chaiva says, there are

595
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: two potential types of alien pathogens we need to worry about.

596
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: One would be toxic and the other would be infectious.

597
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: Infectious are the types of germs we share between us

598
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: here on Earth. They infect a host, they can be

599
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: passed from host to host, and they they are parasitizing

600
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: your body in a way, they're using your body to

601
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: do something in the reproductive cycle. Toxic pathogens would be

602
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: merely those that produce a poison or act as a

603
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: poison that damages the body, even if you're not the

604
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: intended host of this organism. So, first of all, there's

605
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: some good news because we should think about how viruses

606
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: and bacteria infectious agents work here on Earth. The strain

607
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: of a disease that affects maybe dogs and chickens or

608
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: even chimpanzees might not infect humans. In fact, it often doesn't.

609
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: Lots of our parasites are co evolved, meaning they're they're

610
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: finally tuned to their preferred host organism. And in the

611
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: same way, animals evolved traits to live in a certain ecosystem.

612
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: You know, think away the hands and the feet and

613
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: tales of tree dwelling primate specialized in climbing trees and

614
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: hanging from branches and swinging between branches that brackyation motion.

615
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: Pathogens evolved to certain ecosystems as well, but those ecosystems

616
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: tend to be the body of their primary host. Thus,

617
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: if you've got alien pathogens that are not specifically evolved

618
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: to colonize our bodies, they might not be able to.

619
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: Then again, this goes both ways. It seems unlikely that

620
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: we would encounter a space microbe finally tuned to infect

621
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: our bodies, but if we did, our immune systems would

622
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: probably not be finally tuned to defend against them. M

623
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: that's true. So what would this look like? So, for example,

624
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: you've got a microorganism that lives in the icy soil

625
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: of Mars. It might be able to get inside our bodies,

626
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: but the internal environments of our bodies that there are

627
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: several options that our bodies might kill it. It might

628
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: be too hot, too wet, it's just not how it's adapted. Alternately,

629
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: it could maybe occupy our bodies without really doing anything,

630
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: and you know, it could infect us, but it wouldn't

631
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: necessarily cause disease or illness, or rapidly reproduce, take over

632
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: our cells, or make toxic byproducts, or cause any other

633
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: kind of damage. But every now and then on Earth

634
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: there is one of these scary situations where a pathogen

635
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: that previously could only infect another type of animal crosses

636
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: the species barrier and becomes able to infect humans. And

637
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: so we wonder if the same thing could happen with

638
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: the microbes of another planet. So, like, if we're trying

639
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: to figure out how we could be attacked by microbes

640
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: that did not evolve to infect us and that our

641
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: immune systems did not evolve to fight off, are there

642
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: any Earth parallels we could look to that would give

643
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: us an idea of what that war between us and

644
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: the microbes would look like. The author of this piece

645
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: does come up with an answer, so she talks to

646
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: John Rummel, NASA's former Planetary Protection officer, and Rummel points out,

647
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: you know, there's one way to guess how our bodies

648
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: might be affected by microbes of other planets, and that's

649
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: to look at the effect of non specific microbes on Earth,

650
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: which is are those that didn't co evolve with the

651
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: specific host. Now, one example would I think fall more

652
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: into the category I mentioned earlier of toxic bacteria, and

653
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: this would be the example of cyanobacteria. Cyanobacteria is all

654
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: over the place on Earth. It's also known as blue

655
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: green algae, even though it's not really algae, and you

656
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: find it everywhere you go. So if you're out walking

657
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: on a dock and you see blooms of this kind

658
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: of turquoise scums sloshing around against the document. You might

659
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: be looking at blue green algae or cyanobacteria. So cyanobacteria

660
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: are capable of producing biological poisons known as cyanotoxins, for example,

661
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: neurotoxins that attack the nervous system and hepatotoxins that attack

662
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: the liver. And blooms of cyanobacteria in alpine lakes, the

663
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: article points out, have been linked to the deaths of

664
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: cattle in the area around the lakes, even though it's

665
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: not that the cyanobacteria evolved to infect the cattle, and

666
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: it's not that they're specifically trying to protect themselves from

667
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: being eaten by cattle. It's just that the cyano bacteria is.

668
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 1: Poisons are very general and they work across a broad

669
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: range of organisms. So in the same way that you

670
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: might have if you can imagine a large alien creature

671
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: with a spiked tail, Yes, spike is very very broad

672
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: in its application. It can cut into and decapitate and

673
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: disembow varying types of life forms. Right, this is a

674
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: brilliant analogy. And uh and and the same for just

675
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: a a a sufficiently deadly um strain of sano bacteria. Right, Okay,

676
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: so it's not like if an alien had i don't know,

677
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: a human shaped iron maide and designed specifically to pierce

678
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: human bodies. That might not work on some cosmic jellyfish

679
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: or gas planet somewhere. But if you just got a

680
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: big spike on your tail, yeah, you can use it

681
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: on pretty much anything. Uh So, yeah, that's a good comparison.

682
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: But another example would be going away from the toxicity

683
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: example and more towards the infectious example, would be, uh,

684
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: the bacteria Seratia marcisns. And this is a rod shaped

685
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: gram negative bacterium that can be found infecting an extremely

686
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: diverse range of hosts. The article cites this is as

687
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: one example of something that sort of works from one

688
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: end of the evolutionary bush to another. It can infect humans,

689
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: of course, and sometimes it's responsible for infections that are

690
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: acquired in what's supposed to be a sterile environment, like

691
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: hospital acquired infections, but it can also infect everything from

692
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: fruit flies to coral Yeah. Crazy. So if there are

693
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: organisms on Earth that can be that generalized in in

694
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: the types of hosts they infect, you can imagine the

695
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: same thing being true of some kuidance of alien microbes. Now,

696
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: the difference there might be even bigger because they are

697
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: not even part of our evolutionary tree. But if we're

698
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: similar enough as organisms, it's it's possible they could infect us. Yeah,

699
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: similar enough. I think that's where a lot of the

700
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: danger lies. And in this I want to I want

701
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: to touch on parasites for just a little bit. Nice. So,

702
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: so here's the thing. Taking into account, Yeah, all the

703
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 1: variables of conversion evolution on a foreign world. Um, that's

704
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: one thing, But I'm not sure the greatest worry is

705
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: that you would have a fine tune parasite taking to

706
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: it to our body the way that it has, you know,

707
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: evolved to take advantage of a host. Because even on

708
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: our own planet, in the midst of our own ecosystem,

709
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: we see the harmful and even fatal consequences of the

710
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: parasite just getting lost and perishing inside of the wrong

711
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: host or even you know, the right host, it just

712
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: gets turned around. Parasitic death by misadventure. Yeah, there's a

713
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: misadventure you've gotta be a war weary of. For instance,

714
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: the pork tape worm is a prime example of this.

715
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: Tell me more so, it needs to hold on. Sorry,

716
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: is this what you'd get from eating undercooked pork burgers? Yeah,

717
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: that's the name the pork tape worm. So this is

718
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: a This is a parasite that needs to venture inside

719
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: a pig to complete its life cycle, but the eggs

720
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: often wind up inside of a human instead. The eggs

721
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: hatch the confused larva. Uh, don't make it to the

722
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: human intestines. Instead, they burrow into the bloodstream. They're swept

723
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: through the body, often winding up in the brain forming cysts.

724
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: And this can disrupt brain functions, damage the brain. It

725
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: can cod's hydrocephalus and the result and it can also

726
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: result in brain hernias that cause coma or death. Whoa,

727
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: this is? This is like some alien stuff? Yeah? Yeah,

728
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: I mean really really, if you want to, if you

729
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: want to explore some just complex you know, not only

730
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: xenomorph esque, but like even beyond that level of complexity.

731
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: In terms of life cycles, the parasitic world is phenomenal,

732
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: especially when you have these are crazy branching um life

733
00:40:54,400 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: cycles that involve multiple organisms. It's it's delightfully grotesque stuff. Uh. So, yeah,

734
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: you these parasites you encounter on another world, they or

735
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: the parasites canna encounter you and even enter you. And

736
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: maybe they don't have the they have not evolved to

737
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: fully take advantage of you and serve as a proper parasite.

738
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: But what if they could still get inside you? And

739
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: they get they get lost, They don't know what to do.

740
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 1: This is actually something I thought of quite a bit

741
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: in viewing Alien Covenant, because we see a few different

742
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: horrific scenes where these neomorphs, these uh, these these white

743
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: sort of proto xenomorph creatures, they burst out of the

744
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: infected person, like through the spine or through the mouth.

745
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: It's uh, it really gave me the idea of all

746
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: these poor things. They don't know where they are, These

747
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: poor creatures, they're just lost inside this human host and

748
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: they're just trying to get out wherever they can. Yeah,

749
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: it's funny if you go back to the old alien movies.

750
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not funny. I don't know. If you go

751
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: back to the older alien movies, the aliens we see

752
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: in those movies have a much more highly specified life cycle.

753
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: They infect a person the same way every time, and

754
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: they emerge from a person the same way every time.

755
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: And these newer movies seem to be developing more more

756
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: general diversity in the way the alien organisms parasitize their hosts,

757
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: So again that's something to keep in mind. Uh my.

758
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: My basic point is the parasite need only gain access

759
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: to any of your major body systems or the body

760
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: cavity itself to really mess things up. So it's life

761
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: cycle might be might be doomed. But what about yours? Yeah,

762
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: so I think we should admit that we just don't

763
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: know what kind of dangers exists on real planets out there,

764
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: and to what extent we would be vulnerable to them

765
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: if they did. But the possibility space of fatal outcomes,

766
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: I would say, is vast, and we just don't know

767
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: what the probability of of real encounters is. Within that space,

768
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 1: you could possibly have your body wrecked by an alien

769
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: parasite that doesn't know what to do with you, allow

770
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: the pork tape worm. You could effectively be in infected

771
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: by a path of the pathogen that deems you close

772
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 1: enough to its ideal environment or host organism. Or you

773
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: might be poisoned by the toxic byproducts of defensive poisons

774
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: in a microbial life form that wants nothing to do

775
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: with you, but the story actually gets a little bit

776
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: worse for our intrepid colonists on this exoplanet, because I

777
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: want to mention a couple of things here that specifically

778
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: have to do with space travel. First of all, I'm

779
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: sure you've read about this Robert. Space travel jams up

780
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: your immune system. So for several years now, NASA has

781
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: been studying the effects of space flight on immune system

782
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 1: responsive crew members aboard the I S S. I've got

783
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 1: a NASA news piece here from August reporting the findings

784
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: of the NASA Integrated Immune Study and Clinical Nutrition Assessment,

785
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: and so far results have shown that astronauts have a

786
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: problem with diminished immune capacity during their time on the

787
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: I S S. Specifically, NASA's Integrated Immune Study showed that

788
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: immune cells remained present in the blood, but their activity

789
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 1: was confused. Some cells are overactive, other cells are underactive,

790
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: and this leads to a condition they refer to as

791
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: asymptomatic viral shedding, which means you've got dormant viruses inside

792
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: your body that wake up and become active once again

793
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: without the host showing normal symptoms of infection, and then

794
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: in turn, this viral reactivation triggers immune overreaction leading to

795
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 1: symptoms like allergies and rashes, and so this is often

796
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: times why you see you might see people in the

797
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: I s s like filming videos and they look like

798
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: they're having bad allergies. Yeah, you know that this is

799
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: a This touches on just sort of the The general

800
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: risk of course interplanetary travel, certainly interstellar travel, is that

801
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: it's not just you're you're traveling from a hospitable world

802
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: Earth to some inhospitable world like the ablow three h

803
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: you were you were trying to get there. You have

804
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: to travel a thoroughly inhospitable environment that of of of space,

805
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: deep space, without the you know, protection from well, this

806
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: gets into you know, what kind of technology would you

807
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: have worked out to enable your trip, but you know,

808
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: not having a proper protection from radiation, perhaps not having uh,

809
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: you get into the mental realm as well, like being

810
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: isolated for extended periods of time, like you get you're

811
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: able to show up in that other world a little

812
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: bit crazy sick without properly functioning immune system, and then

813
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: you still have to deal with the rigors of a

814
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: foreign biosphere. The idea is that the day you meet

815
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: a space microbe could be the day, your immune system

816
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: is just about at its worst. And so the article

817
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: sites NASA immunologist Brian Crucian, who says, quote, if this

818
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: situation persisted for longer deep space missions, he's talking about

819
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: the the immune condition of people in the I s s.

820
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: It could possibly increased risk of in action, hypersensitivity or

821
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: autoimmune issues for exploration astronauts. Uh. And so what causes

822
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: this we don't fully know yet, but there are a

823
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 1: bunch of hypotheses. They focus on microgravity, stress, lack of sleep, uh,

824
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: microbial environment or microbial exposure, isolation, and exposure to radiation.

825
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: On the plus side, I would say all of these

826
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: are things that we would hope, as you just alluded to, Robert,

827
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: you would be able to address by the time we're

828
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 1: an exoplanet colonizing species. If you're trying to travel to

829
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: exoplanets in a space ship that doesn't have artificial gravity,

830
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: that hasn't come up with ways of dealing with radiation,

831
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: exposure or stress, you've got bigger problems. You know, you're

832
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: you're probably not gonna make it there. Yeah, I mean,

833
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: unless you're go in with a sci fi scenario where

834
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: basically everyone just needs to get out of the pool.

835
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: You know, everyone has to get off of Earth and

836
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: start on these colonies in it. That's the motivation for

837
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: getting there, is that it's either go or perish totally.

838
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: So that is something we should keep in mind. The

839
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: other thing I had to mention so is space travel

840
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: appears to make us immuno compromised. Also, multiple studies have

841
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: shown that space flight conditions can increase the virulence of

842
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: known pathogens. One example would be Salmonella Tiffi mariam. So

843
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: in some experiments, when you took the strain of salmonella

844
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: into space, once it came back, it was more deadly

845
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: to mice than earth grown strains of the same bacterium.

846
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: So if you can imagine picking up a germ on

847
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: an alien planet and then ash overrides Ripley's quarantine procedure

848
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: and you get in the ship and take it back

849
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 1: to space with you, you could be making things even

850
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: worse for yourself. All right, Well, on that note, let's

851
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: take a quick break and when we come back we

852
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: will discuss killer allergens. Thank alright, we're back, And I

853
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: have to say this is an area that I had

854
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: not really given much thought of when I think of

855
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: risks on an alien world. Um, I tend to think

856
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: of I think of the atmosphere. I think of diseases

857
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: and foreign organisms. I think of some of the things

858
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: we're going to discuss in a bit, like radiation. But

859
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: the idea of just all my allergies are acting up

860
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: because um, because side is six. It's just it's just

861
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: really affecting my sinuses. Well, again, I just wanted to

862
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: explore possibility space. So this is not something that I

863
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: think has been um widely explored. I just want to

864
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: think about it as a possibility. So small bits of

865
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: organic matter in the air, for example, of the pollen

866
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: of plants or other airborne life forms. These are the

867
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: kinds of allergens we encounter here on Earth, and I

868
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: wondered what people with allergic susceptibility might might encounter on

869
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: an alien planet. They might not be active pathogens, they

870
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: might not be germs trying to invade your body, but

871
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: that could make your body go haywire. That could trigger

872
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: this critical immune system response and and death by asthma

873
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: or anaphylaxis. So this process might not be as speedy

874
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: as some other dangers, but could represent a threat to

875
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: colonists who burn their helmets or otherwise open them up

876
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: and breathe deep of the alien biosphere. So to look

877
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: at whether this is a possibility, I think we should

878
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: take a quick look at how allergic responses work. An

879
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: allergic reaction is basically just a malfunction of the immune system.

880
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: It happens when a foreign substance called an allergen comes

881
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: into contact with the body and the immune system mistakes

882
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: the substance for a hostile pathogen, right. It thinks that

883
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: you are being infected by a germ that needs attacking,

884
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: when in fact it's just some harmless stuff. It's a

885
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: piece of protein, pollen, something like that, you know, shrimp,

886
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: and this triggers an immune system response that is unnecessary

887
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: and self destructive. It's kind of like if you've got

888
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: an army base and the wind flows a tumble weed

889
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: up against the exterior fence of the base and a

890
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 1: malfunction in the basis automated defense network responds by shelling

891
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 1: the area with heavy artillery, destroying part of the base

892
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: in the process. So we don't fully understand all of

893
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: the deep underlying causes of allergic reactions, like why some

894
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 1: people have specific allergies and other people don't. Twin studies

895
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: do seem to show that there's a strong genetic component

896
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: to allergies, but environmental influences are a factor as well.

897
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: According to the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology,

898
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: a little less than about eight percent of adults in

899
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: the US have respiratory allergies also known as hay fever. Worldwide,

900
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: it's more it's like ten percent to thirty percent of

901
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 1: people as far as we know, And so it's generally

902
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: true that allergic reactions to new substances don't occur immediately

903
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: the first time you get exposed to those substances. The

904
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: body has to encounter the allergen, produce allergy and specific

905
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: antibodies known as I G E antibodies, and then allow

906
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: those antibodies to bind two receptors on immune cells called

907
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: mast cells and bays of rolls. And the delay between

908
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: this first exposure, the sensitizing exposure, and then the potential

909
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: for the first dangerous reaction I think is usually considered

910
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: to be about a week or ten days. So this

911
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: could be something that sneaks up on you. You've been

912
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: on the surface of this planet. For a while, you

913
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: think everything's okay, nobody's gotten sick in the first day

914
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: or two, But suddenly you might get really bad asthma.

915
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: And so this is more of a danger of prolonged

916
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: exposure to an alien biosphere. The first encounter probably wouldn't

917
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: harm you. But once this sensitization has happened, if the

918
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: body encounters that same allergy and again, the cells trigger

919
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: what's known as an allergic cascade. And this means the

920
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 1: body floods with allergy mediators like histamine, which causes dilation

921
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: of the blood vessels, low blood pressure, itching, sneezing, digestive problems,

922
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: et cetera. And if this gets bad enough, it leads to,

923
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: of course, what we know as anaphylaxis. You know, this

924
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: is the really severe reaction that can be fatal if

925
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: not treated quickly. So I is wondering how how dangerous

926
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 1: is anaphylaxis, How fatal is it? Can? Can it cause death? Yes,

927
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: but the odds aren't as bad as you think. So

928
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,959
Speaker 1: aten study in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology

929
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: found that anaphylactic shock resulted in between sixty three and

930
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: nine deaths in the United States every year However, that's

931
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: only about point three percent of cases where people presented

932
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: in hospitals with anaphylaxis. So if you can get to

933
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: a hospital, it looks like your odds are pretty good.

934
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: Treatment usually tends to be a big shot of epinefron,

935
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: also known as adrenaline, so you get the rush, uh

936
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: and exactly the EpiPen it's a it's an epine an

937
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: auto injector. One hopes that by the time we get

938
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 1: to these foreign planets the prices have come down a

939
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: little bit and they can stock up the ships with them. Um,

940
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: it's less clear to me what the survival rate without

941
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: medical attention or epinefron would be due to anaphylaxis. But

942
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 1: of course, on the surface of an alien planet, can

943
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: you get to hospital or can you get your rope

944
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: and fern shot in time? I guess we would just

945
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: hope that your med droid is working well. It has,

946
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: it has the EpiPens for fingers to drive them in.

947
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: That's right. Every time it tries to hug you, you

948
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: get the adrenaline injection. Uh. So. The other the other

949
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: thing to think about would be asthma attacks, which can

950
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: also be triggered by allergic reactions to inhaled irritants, and

951
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: they're often more deadly in the modern day. So an

952
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: asthma attack causes constriction of the airways, and according to

953
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America, about ten Americans

954
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: die from asthma every day and ineen asthma killed three thousand,

955
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty one people. So it's usually treated

956
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: with inhaled broncho dilators like the the emergency and haler

957
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: that you have the rescue in haler um, but it

958
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: can be treated with other stuff in the case of

959
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: a really bad asthma attack. So, if you're on the

960
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: surface of an alien planet, can you imagine what types

961
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: of thing this that go into your body might cause

962
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: a severe allergic reaction. Of course, it could be pollen

963
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: or spores from an alien plant or some other kind

964
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: of germinating life form. Could be alien foods if you

965
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: find yourself eating them, though, I guess have we factored in, Robert,

966
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: do you consider if you take your helmet off, do

967
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: you also just eat the stuff around you? I don't know.

968
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this the other night because they

969
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: watched um uh, the new MST three K episode that

970
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: deals with the lost world. You know, uh, Edgar ice

971
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 1: Burrows store German submarine winds up in this place where

972
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: evolutions all walking, and you still have all these dinosaurs

973
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: and they immediately, like right after they kill the first dinosaur,

974
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: they cook it up and they eat it, just no

975
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: concerns whatsoever. Um, it would be it would be funny

976
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,439
Speaker 1: to see that utilize in some of these sci fi

977
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 1: scenarios where they kill a neomorph in they're like, out

978
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: where we gotta eat, So let's fire up the grill.

979
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: Sick of this freeze dried ice cream. But hey, how

980
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 1: about another thing for anna phylactic shock? What about the

981
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: venom of an alien organism? Oh yeah, I mean you

982
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: look at the terrestrial example, and you have plenty of

983
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: of of small organisms that pack a substantial punch thanks

984
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: to their their neurotoxins. Yeah, but it wouldn't even have

985
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: to be that the or the organism's natural venom is

986
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: strong enough to kill you. I mean, that could have

987
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: been a reason we cited all on its own. Actually

988
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: it would be the venom of alien arthropods. But imagine

989
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: that the venom is not enough to kill you on

990
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: its own, you still could have one of these immune

991
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: system malfunctions. Uh that you know it. Basically, you get

992
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 1: stung by the alien equivalent of a wasp what would

993
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: we call it, the infernas seven hymenopteroid, and it stings

994
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: you and gives you a dose of something that really

995
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: just just meant to hurt, but instead you have an

996
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 1: allergic reaction to the insect. And according to the American

997
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: Academy of Allergy, Asthma, Immunology, up to fifty percent of

998
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 1: people who die from allergic reactions to insects had no

999
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: previously documented allergy, like they didn't know they were allergic.

1000
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: So it sounds like it could be a scary scenario

1001
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 1: on an alien world. Yeah, fear of alien bees. Alien bees,

1002
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: by the way, also a brand of professional lighting equipment

1003
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,240
Speaker 1: for photographers. No way. Yeah, yeah, they have a lovely,

1004
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: lovely logo. Dude, I just looked it up. Yes, they

1005
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: give it. So they give him the alien face with

1006
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: the large eyes. It's like a gray except he's not

1007
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: Gray's yellow because he's a bee. And they make his

1008
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: wings yellow too. I'm not saying. I'm not sure why

1009
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying. He I guess it looks kind of masculine.

1010
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: In the logo here. But but the bees we know

1011
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: and love are women, right. I know about this because

1012
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: my wife is a photographer, and uh, and there have

1013
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: been times in the past which is like, can you

1014
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: help me get the the alien bees? Make sure you can?

1015
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: You can you get the alien bees out of the

1016
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 1: car for me? So that the alien bees have become

1017
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: a normal part of my life. But then also on

1018
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: top of talking about potential alien allergens that that could

1019
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: get you, I I don't know to what extent that's

1020
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: a real thing to worry about, but I thought that

1021
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 1: was worth considering. There's also this other class where you know,

1022
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 1: we've looked at infectious agents and microorganisms, and we've looked

1023
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 1: at allergens, which is like bits of matter that upset

1024
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: your body. I wonder if there's also categories of things

1025
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: in between that we haven't even reckoned with, that we

1026
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: we don't even fully understand because there's just not a

1027
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: strong analogy on Earth. It makes me think about one

1028
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: of the picks from the My My Fiction pick from

1029
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: the summer reading episode we did last year, which was

1030
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: a sci fi book that I really loved called Aurora

1031
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: by Kim Stanley Robinson and A lot of reviewers seemed

1032
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: to hate this book, I think because they found it

1033
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: depressing and pessimistic, conjuring up this universe where space colonist

1034
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: characters come to the conclusion that Earth might be the

1035
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: only viable home for us in the galaxy. And the

1036
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: reason is that, based on a very small sampling of planets,

1037
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: planets seemed to be either uninhabitable, unable to sustain life,

1038
00:57:55,400 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: or already home to hostile micro organisms. And and so

1039
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: there's this organism. I don't want to spoil too much

1040
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: about the book, but they go to a planet whether

1041
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: where there is this organism that they just don't really understand.

1042
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: It does seem to infect and kill people, but it

1043
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: doesn't really work like micro organisms that were familiar with.

1044
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: At some point, a character tries to compare it to

1045
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: a fast acting preon, like the you know, these misfolded

1046
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: proteins that make copies of themselves and damage our tissues

1047
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: that way, But then they rule out they say, it

1048
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: actually doesn't really work that way. It's just a sci

1049
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: fi scenario. But it does make me think about the

1050
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: possibility that there could be tiny, chemically active molecules and

1051
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 1: objects that act upon our bodies in ways that are

1052
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: not even familiar to us. Uh in the ways we're

1053
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: familiar with from micro organisms or from allergens. Interesting, I'm

1054
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: not that familiar with with Kim Stanley Robinson. Is there

1055
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: another work by this author that I should recognize? This

1056
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: is the only book of his that I've read, but

1057
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: I know he's well known for his He did a

1058
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: trilogy of books about Mars, about terraforming Mars. Yes, that

1059
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 1: that must be where I recognized his name from. They're

1060
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: like different colors. I think it's called yes, yes, yes, Okay, yeah,

1061
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: I have not read those, but I have friends who

1062
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: spe Yeah. I haven't read them either, but I so.

1063
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: Despite the fact that a lot of people didn't like Aurora,

1064
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: I really loved it. I thought it was a fascinating

1065
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: counterpoint to a lot of the space exploration fiction we

1066
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 1: usually see. Are you ready to look at the next

1067
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: threat to the unhelmeted space explorer? Bring it on? Helmet

1068
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: still on? Ready to look at the reason? Number four? Okay,

1069
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: how about killer particles? So we discussed this in our

1070
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: episode Your Health is a Mars colonist. Many alien worlds

1071
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: are likely to contain extremely fine particles of dust, and

1072
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: soil that could cause health problems or even kill you.

1073
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: One thing that we mentioned in that previous episode that

1074
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention again. In December nineteen seventy two,

1075
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: you have the crew of the Apollo seventeen walking on

1076
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: the un They're out there doing their extra vehicular activity.

1077
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: Did they play golf? I can't remember who played golf? Yeah,

1078
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: I can't remember off handy there some people play golf.

1079
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: Maybe they did. Maybe that was somebody else. But astronauts

1080
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: Harrison Schmidt and Eugene Cernan, and they were operating in

1081
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: the location near the Sea of Serenity, and when they

1082
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: got back inside the lunar module after the A v A,

1083
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: Harrison Schmidt experienced what has been called quote lunar dust

1084
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: hay fever, which was this respiratory reaction to inhaling fine

1085
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: particles of lunar regulars. So the dust on the surface

1086
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: of the Moon has these weird qualities. It's abrasive, it's

1087
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 1: almost kind of been described like tiny fine shards of glass.

1088
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: It sticks to everything, It smells like gunpowder. Apparently it's

1089
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: hard not to inhale it when you're messing around on

1090
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: the surface of the Moon. And when you do, it's

1091
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: not good for your respiratory system. It it it messes

1092
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: you up. Other planets also have other types of surface soil.

1093
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: They're going to be very different than what we're used

1094
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: to on Earth, and we need to consider the possibility

1095
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: that all of these surface soils could have chemicals in them,

1096
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: fine particles that could really be a threat to our

1097
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: health and and could even kill us. Even on Earth,

1098
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: there are situations where inhalation of fine particles can lead

1099
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: to respiratory diseases. Like you can if you inhale a

1100
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: lot of extremely fine silica, Like if you're a minor

1101
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: or sand blaster or something, you can inhale this stuff,

1102
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 1: this fine silica that it leads to something called silicosis,

1103
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: and that's just not good for your lungs. It depends

1104
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 1: on exactly what kind of exposure you get, but eventually

1105
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: it can lead to progressive massive fibrosis, which is just

1106
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 1: destroys your lungs. It's almost like your lungs filling up

1107
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: with concrete. Uh. You do not want things like this

1108
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: going into your lungs. And things like in these fine

1109
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: grains could be present on many other worlds. Also. Mars

1110
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: is a good example of places where the soil is

1111
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: believed to contain chemicals that are not just dangerous in

1112
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: terms of them being fine and uh and respirable, But

1113
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: the Martian soil is known to contain perclorates, which have

1114
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: detrimental effects on the thyroid and hormone production in the

1115
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: human body. And we don't know what kinds of toxic

1116
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: chemicals could be in the soil of alien planets. But

1117
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: if you break the seal between the inside and outside,

1118
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: it's difficult to keep fine grain particles separate. And then,

1119
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: of course that's just assuming these are just straight up

1120
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: particles and they're not radioactive particles, right, because even Earth

1121
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: has naturally occurring radioactive particles radionuclides, which can be hazardous

1122
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: to your health if you inhale them. And so we

1123
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: don't also know the extent to which the surface of

1124
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: another planet might be peppered with fine radioactive particles that

1125
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: you can suck right in with a deep breath. All right,

1126
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: So we're down to the last item on our checklist

1127
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: before opening the helmet. And again, this is not just

1128
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: the opening of the helmet, but the breaching of the

1129
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: mini space suit and the presume protective layers that encompasses, right,

1130
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: so this one might be a little bit less helmet

1131
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: focused and more just focused on the general barrier between

1132
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: you and the outside. That's right. So radiation. We we've

1133
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: done a few different episodes now where we've we've we've

1134
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: discussed radiation, most most recently the episode dealing with like

1135
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: the demon Core idea and like what happens with what

1136
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: happened with Chernobyl and the risks probe posed by radiation

1137
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: to human health. Yeah. I haven't even thought about this

1138
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: before before we did this episode, but walking around with

1139
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: exposed skin on these planets, I mean, can you get

1140
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: an infurnace six sunburn? Yeah? I would guess depending on

1141
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: what the the the star or stars at the center

1142
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: of the infurnace system are like yeah, yeah, because both

1143
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: cosmic and solar radiation immediately become a problem once you

1144
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: leave the neighborhood of Earth, and to your point, even

1145
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: on Earth, solar radiation can be an issue depending on

1146
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 1: what your skin situation is like and where you are.

1147
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: Even on Earth's surface, we're exposed to a steady ambient

1148
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: level of radiation from the sun. Solar radiation, uh, and

1149
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 1: the larger universe cosmic radiation. But Earth's atmosphere and magnetosphere

1150
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 1: work together to protect us from most of the danger.

1151
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: So even astronauts on the International Space Station two miles

1152
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: above Earth, uh, they're exposed to much more radiation than

1153
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: we get on the surface. They're still shielded by Earth's magnetosphere,

1154
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: which extends thousands of miles into space around the planet.

1155
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: That's right, yea, So even though they're outside the atmosphere,

1156
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: there's still within this thing that repels a lot of

1157
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: this cosmic radiation. Yeah. This so this sort of magic

1158
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: field that's not magic, but you know, it's this wonderful

1159
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: protective shield shielding around the Earth. So you land on

1160
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: an alien world, you're just thinking about breaching your suit

1161
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: taking that helmet off. Does the planet have an atmosphere?

1162
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and assume it does, Otherwise you really

1163
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: don't have a good excuse. So if there's so, there's

1164
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: some level of radiation shielding just by virtue of there

1165
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: being an atmosphere. But is there a magnetosphere? So I'm

1166
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and guess there is. Because one of

1167
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: the things that happens when there's no magnetosphere is that

1168
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: the solar wind strips most of the atmosphere off of

1169
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: your world. Yeah, this is we talked about the thin

1170
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: atmosphere of Mars. Mars does not have a strong magnetosphere.

1171
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 1: I think it doesn't have one at all. Yeah, we're

1172
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: talking massive atmosphere loss in these scenarios. So yet to

1173
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: to break down who has magnetosphere. There's Mercury, Earth, Jupiter, Ganymede, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune.

1174
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 1: Mars definitely does not have one. But in the case

1175
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: of you know, an absence of a magnetosphere, massive atmosphere lost.

1176
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: There are there are many astrobiologies that predict that that

1177
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 1: potential life on an exoplanet might well be doomed without

1178
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: a magneto magnetosphere in place. At the very least, it

1179
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: would mean that life would have to flourish there perhaps

1180
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: underground be mind, you know, beneath protective ice caps or

1181
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: or artificial structures and systems. You get into the same

1182
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 1: scenario when we start thinking about the potential Mars colonists, like,

1183
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: how how would you effectively shield uh, you know, a

1184
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 1: colony on that world? Right, you want to like dig

1185
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: underground or something. Yeah, Still, you've got this protective space

1186
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 1: suit presumably provides some sort of protection against radiation, and

1187
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: even a world protected by a magnetosphere and an atmosphere

1188
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 1: can be a radioactive mess for creatures such as ourselves.

1189
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be naturally occurring radioactive environments which

1190
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: we we certainly encounter, or something compromised by an intelligent

1191
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: species radioactive dumping. So to come back to the the

1192
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: alien universe, we don't know what the what other crimes

1193
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: the the engineers got up to today decided to just

1194
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 1: dump a whole bunch of radioactive waste on any particular planet.

1195
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,439
Speaker 1: It seems like the kind of thing we would do. Yeah,

1196
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: uh yeah, So that's the thing that I guess is

1197
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 1: worth considering. What is the range of possibilities for the

1198
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 1: natural ground based radioactivity of a foreign planet? I mean,

1199
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: on Earth, there are natural sources of radiation apart from

1200
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 1: just what's coming from the sky. We've got uranium in

1201
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 1: the Earth. Uranium decays produces radon gas. If you inhale that,

1202
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: you can have radiation exposure. Uh so, yeah, I guess,

1203
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: I guess we just don't know what's possible on other planets. Yeah. Now,

1204
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: to put everything in sort of a uh in context

1205
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: of what we have here, which is our again, our

1206
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 1: best model for what we might find elsewhere. Uh. In

1207
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: terms of natural radiation, again, everybody has to do with

1208
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: some degree of terrestrial radiation thanks to naturally occurring radioactive

1209
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 1: materials such as uranium, thorium, radium, et cetera. In the Earth,

1210
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: and the inhabited area on the planet with the highest

1211
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: levels of terrestrial radiation is Ramsar, Iran, and this is

1212
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: due to a nearby radioactive hot spring in building materials

1213
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: that have been harvested from there. But I think I

1214
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: recall reading because we did a now piece on this,

1215
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: didn't mean that that actually in rams are like people

1216
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: are not don't really have much worse health outcomes despite

1217
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: the fact that they're exposed to elevated levels of radiation.

1218
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's my understanding. But but just in terms

1219
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,680
Speaker 1: of like the levels here and these are gonna be

1220
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 1: this is what we're looking at, and this is gonna

1221
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: be in ing wise or nano gray units, and uh,

1222
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be per hour, I believe, so absorbed

1223
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 1: rates of radiation in the air and Ramsar are going

1224
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 1: to be between seventy and seventeen thousand and again that's

1225
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,759
Speaker 1: the highest you're gonna find for an inhabited area on Earth.

1226
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 1: But if you go into uninhabited Uh, then this is

1227
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 1: the place that takes takes the cake. The Black Beaches

1228
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: of guadapare Brazil, and they contain monosite, which is a

1229
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: phosphate of rare earth metals containing uranium and thorium. Uh

1230
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: So it's in the sand here and it produce uses

1231
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: absorbed dose rates of of ninety to ninety thousand en

1232
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:10,480
Speaker 1: gy wise um per hour. And now that's just natural radiation.

1233
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 1: If you go ahead and new a factory in radioactive

1234
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: pollution in our case by humans, but in another case

1235
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: by some you know, it doesn't even have to be

1236
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: an existing estraterrestrial species. You know, presumably you could have

1237
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 1: the radioactive waste of a of a of an inner

1238
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 1: planetary or simply planetary society that then later got onto

1239
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: destroying itself. Like what have we arrived on an exoplanet?

1240
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 1: We realize, Oh, the previous inhabitants annihilated themselves with an

1241
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: atomic war. Uh, surely that's been explored. That sounds like

1242
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 1: classic trek right there. But if we factor that in,

1243
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: then the most polluted example we have on Earth is

1244
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 1: h Lake Karace in Russia. This is a long time

1245
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: dumping site for radioactive waste and by most estimates, the

1246
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,640
Speaker 1: most radioactive place on the planet now is that including

1247
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:04,640
Speaker 1: next to the elephant's foot in in chernobyl Um. I

1248
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:07,599
Speaker 1: believe so, yeah, I mean the idea here is that

1249
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: we're talking like longstanding you know, radiation. So this was

1250
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: just a place where just a small ural mountain lake

1251
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: where they would just dump stuff. They would they would

1252
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: just dump radioactive waste continually, and uh it they let

1253
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 1: to researchers in in the nineties to analyze it based

1254
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 1: on I think current satellite data. It's completely covered and cement.

1255
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 1: Now there have been attempts to to manage it. But

1256
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 1: in nineteen nine, uh, it's said if you were standing

1257
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: on the shore of the lake, you more than an

1258
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: hour of exposure would have been fatal. Wow. So I

1259
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 1: think you know, you can you can imagine a scenario

1260
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:51,519
Speaker 1: where you you land on a world, maybe you have

1261
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: a preliminary radiation reading for just sort of the world itself.

1262
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 1: You wander onto a black sand beach. Yeah you want,

1263
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,760
Speaker 1: you want onto the beach and uh, you know, the

1264
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, you're absorbing increasing levels of radiation,

1265
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: which might not be an immediate problem, but it might be, uh,

1266
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 1: you know, a problem of prolonged exposure. Right. Well, when

1267
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 1: we think about radiation again, there are there are two

1268
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: main ways that you would want to keep yourself sealed

1269
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: from your environment. It works in multiple ways. So one

1270
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: is that you would have a suit. Hopefully they would

1271
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 1: have some kind of shielding that proprides a barrier against

1272
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: the ray radiation, you know, the bombardment of your body

1273
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: with direct rays like gamma rays or neutron radiation. But

1274
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:36,759
Speaker 1: then you would also want to keep your environment sealed

1275
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: so that you don't have the interaction with radioactive particles.

1276
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 1: And I think that could be one of the biggest dangers,

1277
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 1: is the inhalation of these radio nuclides. The more I

1278
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 1: think about it just might be better to leave the

1279
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 1: suit on. Definitely, no matter how delicious the neomorphs seem,

1280
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 1: no matter how delightful that beach may seem, maybe it's

1281
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,680
Speaker 1: just better just to stay in the suit. It's I'm

1282
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 1: sure it has a bathroom function. Okay, here's a question.

1283
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 1: You're totally out of freeze, dried ice cream, no earth

1284
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,600
Speaker 1: food left, you're on the alien planet. You've killed a neomorph.

1285
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 1: Do you starve to death or do you try to

1286
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 1: eat it? Well, I guess you try and eat it.

1287
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: I mean, geez, I don't know, of course, not knowing

1288
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 1: what I know about the neomorphs. Now, I mean, actually

1289
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: that maybe in a sense that's a survival method because

1290
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: you know that you might live on in some sorts,

1291
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: some form or another, right, right, at least you're parasitic progeny. Yeah, yeah,

1292
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 1: that the NEOMRP sandwich kind of becomes you, and then

1293
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 1: then you're good to go. Now you're completely acclimatized to

1294
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: the environment. You're no longer remotely human, but you're thriving. Okay, Well,

1295
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: I hope you have enjoyed this weird exoplanet speculation with us.

1296
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 1: But but if we haven't convinced you knit by now

1297
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 1: to keep your helmet on, uh, we're probably not gonna

1298
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,839
Speaker 1: all right, Yeah, it's probably off by now, I'm guessing

1299
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,720
Speaker 1: you know. But but hopefully we give you some good

1300
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 1: ideas here. Uh. Now, that's not to say that I

1301
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 1: want you to go in and just kneel the grass.

1302
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: Tyson the heck out of every science fiction film you see,

1303
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 1: because I think there's there's ultimately little joy in that,

1304
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 1: but but it it does. I do think it's always

1305
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 1: important to to have the scientific reality and at least

1306
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:19,440
Speaker 1: in the background. You know, it's an act of disengaging

1307
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:23,560
Speaker 1: from what you know about the real threats of space exploration,

1308
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: as opposed to just not knowing about it to begin with,

1309
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:29,919
Speaker 1: and and and basing everything on the sci fi fantasy

1310
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 1: world you're observing. Well, I think earlier I mentioned something

1311
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 1: about how for me it has it's consistency. Really like,

1312
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,559
Speaker 1: if if a movie seems to have an ethic of

1313
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: realism and hard science, I will be troubled by things

1314
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 1: that are unrealistic. But if it doesn't across the board

1315
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 1: have an ethic of realism and hard science, then who cares? Yeah, yeah,

1316
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 1: I guess you know it comes. It's kind of like

1317
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,639
Speaker 1: if you were to encounter a scene where the helmet

1318
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 1: comes off in two thousand and one, right, like that

1319
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 1: would be a case we're like, whoa, come on, Stanley.

1320
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,799
Speaker 1: Up until now, like we didn't even have sound in space.

1321
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: We're being just really hard with our science and now

1322
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:11,759
Speaker 1: you're just kind of thrown it to the wind. But yeah,

1323
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 1: does in the windom do not sing. I'm sorry for

1324
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 1: singing twice, y'all. All right, everybody, Well, if you like

1325
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: this discussion here today, head on over the stuff to

1326
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. That's where we have all

1327
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 1: the podcast episodes, and we also have things like videos

1328
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 1: and blog posts um including my expanded review of Alien

1329
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 1: Covenant that is on the website and that will be

1330
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 1: on the landing page for this episode as well. Also

1331
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 1: include links to other alien related and sci fi related

1332
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,640
Speaker 1: content that we've covered over the years. And if you

1333
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:47,879
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us directly, as always,

1334
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: you can email us at blow the Mind at how

1335
01:14:50,320 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands

1336
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com.

1337
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think. Send an email to

1338
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff works dot com.