1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Julia Hart. 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk with 3 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: women who dared to pivot out of one career and 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Welcome back 6 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: to she Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. You 7 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,639 Speaker 2: know when you meet someone and you're immediately enthralled by 8 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 2: their energy. That was me with Julia Hart when I 9 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 2: watched her reality show My Unorthodox Life, I honestly wasn't 10 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: really sure what she would be like in real life, 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: and it turns out she is exactly the same. She 12 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: is undoubtedly herself, and as someone who has struggled to 13 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: feel like my serious energy is welcome in a world 14 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 2: demanding us to be more serious, I can't help but 15 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: feel inspired by her, especially since Julia hasn't always been 16 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: a snappy, fashionable, bold woman. Julia was born into an 17 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: ultra Orthodox Jewish community, but after having her daughters, she 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: became increasingly uncomfortable with how they were treated and how 19 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 2: the community made women conform. In search of a life 20 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: of more freedom for both herself and her daughters she left. 21 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: She used what skill she had as a former teacher 22 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: to go on to make a series of incredible pivots, 23 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: from starting her own shoe line, to become a creative 24 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: director of La Perla and Italian luxury lingerie line, to 25 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: becoming CEO and co owner of Elite World Group, to 26 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: landing her own reality series on Netflix. The two seasons 27 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: of the show feature the contrast between the glitz and 28 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: the glamor of their lives now in the fashion industry, 29 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: and their decision to leave behind their former religious lives, 30 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: from a life and a community that barely allowed or 31 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: to express herself or to dream of a bigger life. 32 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: Julia has embraced this new phase of her life with vivacity. 33 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: Here's a woman who has been through so much but 34 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: has truly come out on the other side, determined to 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: make a life that is truly and uniquely her own. 36 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: Enjoy. My name is Julia Hart. I am the executive 37 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: producer and star of My Unorthodox Life. I'm the author 38 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: of a best selling novel, Brazen, and i am the 39 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: CEO of my new shaper brand Body by Julia Hart. 40 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: So lay the groundwork for us a little bit to 41 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: understand a little bit more about the community that you 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 2: grew up in, married and raised your children in for 43 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: most of their lives. Tell us more so you know, 44 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: my community is again a very very small part of 45 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 2: the Jewish people. It's a very extremist sect, right, And 46 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: I raised to be a. 47 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: Wife and a mother. That was my purpose in life. 48 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: My high school education was just a joke, a complete 49 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: cham and we were taught that our purpose in life 50 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: was all the same. So I guess the simplest way 51 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: to explain it is your biology to find your destiny. 52 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: You're born a woman, your purpose is to be a 53 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: wife and a mother. You're born a man. Your purpose 54 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: is to become a great rabbi and become a Torus scholar. 55 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: Every morning in my world they say thank you Gud 56 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: for not making me a woman, right, And when you 57 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: ask why, they say, oh, because men have more positive commandments. 58 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: Right. 59 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: They're supposed to go to synagogue, they're supposed to learn 60 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: Torah and women aren't. But then when you ask the 61 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: question of why aren't women allowed to do that? And 62 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: then the answer you get is because if a man 63 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: her husband, who is her master and commander on this 64 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: earth tells her to make dinner, and at the same 65 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: time God is telling her to go pray. Who's she 66 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: supposed to listen to? Which master comes first? So therefore 67 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: she doesn't have to go to synagogue. So she only 68 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: has one master and commander, and that is her husband. Okay, 69 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: So that is that's the world I grew up in. 70 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: And you know right now as you see, you know 71 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: everything that's happening to the Jewish communities all over the world. 72 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: And people ask me all the time, how can you 73 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: yell about this and then stand for here? And I 74 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: to me, I honestly, I never I don't understand the 75 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: question because I love my community. I always say there's 76 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: no villains in my story. There are only victims. But 77 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: the laws have to change. 78 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: Julia lived in Atlanta at the time, and on top 79 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: of raising her kids and caring for her family, she 80 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: was also required to work. 81 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: So I always worked. I was teaching pretty much every 82 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: Judaic subject there is. I was teaching Clumbish, which is 83 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: Bible navim, which are the prophets, hysteria, Jewish history, Parsha 84 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: which is like the weekly toer reading, plumation, Gillows, which 85 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: was oh gosh, how do I translate some of these things? 86 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, but like the Book of Esther, stuff 87 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: like that. I taught pretty much every Jewish subject you 88 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: could get your hands on, except for the Hebrew language. 89 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: I never taught Hebrew as a course. And so you know, 90 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: I taught in two schools, and I had to do 91 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: all the preparation. And again there's no workbook, there's no 92 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: you were literally sitting there and compiling classes. It would 93 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: take me like four to five hours to create a 94 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: class because I didn't want any of my students ever 95 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: looking at their watches. I always wanted to end on 96 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: a cliffhanger. I'm a perfectionist. I'm gonna do something. I'm 97 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: gonna do something. So usually from ten to like two 98 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: in the morning is when I prepared the next day's things, 99 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: and i'd be up at seven. I'd make breakfast for 100 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: my husband when I had kids, who was change diapers, 101 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: Get everybody off to school, Go teach in one school, 102 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: find a time to eat at some point while you're 103 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: going from one school to the next school, come home, 104 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: make dinner, get ready for you know, I always had 105 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: guests all over the house, so make sure everybody's in 106 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: a room and they have food, and then when everyone 107 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: put everyone to bed, and then when all the kids 108 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: are asleep, start all over again at ten o'clock at night, 109 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: start marking papers and preparing for the next year. How 110 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: did you manage child's care? So when I was teaching, 111 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: we had this very lovely woman who it was the 112 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: mother of one of my best friends, and so she 113 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: was there nanny. So when I was teaching, she babe. 114 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: Us at the community she lived in has been described 115 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: as ultra orthodox. They keep a stark divide between men 116 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,679 Speaker 2: and women, Like Julia said, the main job of women 117 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: was to have and raise children, and oftentimes women and 118 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: their mothers had kids simultaneously, so much so that Julia 119 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 2: even nursed her own brother. 120 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: I mean I was a cow like to them, I'm 121 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: just a body. It doesn't matter, Like I'm just a 122 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: feeding machine. I could have fed thirty other people. Because 123 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: if your biology defines you, your destiny, who you are 124 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: as an individual is irrelevant. 125 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 2: How did you did you start to test boundary? He's like, 126 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 2: what sparked for you to think, oh, maybe there's something 127 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: outside of this life? 128 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: My daughter Miriam, so my entire life there From the 129 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: day that we moved in until the day I walked 130 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: out the door, I was fighting this internal battle, this 131 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,559 Speaker 1: unsolvable dichotomy between who I am intrinsically as a human being. 132 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: I'm not try I'm not quiet. I love to study 133 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: and learn. I am very entrepreneurial. I you know, I'm 134 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: good at organizing things, like I had so much here 135 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: on one hand and the other hand, being told Julia, 136 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: stop talking, stop reading. What's wrong with you? Why can't 137 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: you be like other women? If I tell you how 138 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: many times I got called into the raba's office and 139 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: just say, Julia, why can't you behave? Behave? And what 140 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: do they mean behave? It's not like I was wearing 141 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: miniskirts there because I wasn't. I was covered head to 142 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: toe behavian. Stop arguing with men. Stop reading books you're 143 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: not supposed to read. That was my misbehaving, right, educating myself, 144 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: that was a problem. So there was this constant dichotomy 145 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: between who I am intrinsically as a person and who 146 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: I was told I had to be to be loved 147 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: by God. But I thought that that was my fault, 148 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: like something was inherently wrong in me. I was somehow 149 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: flawed because all the other women around me were happy, 150 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: Like what was Why wasn't child rearing enough? Like why 151 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: did I need more? And so I blamed myself. And 152 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: then my daughter Miriam comes around, and first of all, 153 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: she's a newdist This kid I could not keep clothes 154 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: on her body for love or money. Literally, I'll never forget. 155 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: I was in Alanta and I'm walking with my stroller 156 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: and NeiMa Marcus, and I've got, you know, the bugaboo, 157 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: like the fancy stroller, and I'm feeling good. I've got 158 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: my nice wig on, and everybody's looking at the stroller 159 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, my daughter is just so beautiful. 160 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: Everybody's staring at her. At some point I go around 161 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: to pick something, a clothing like up and she was 162 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: stark naked between somehow between the door of Neem and Marcus, 163 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: And when I got into the middle of the store, 164 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: she had literally slowly taken off all her clothes. She 165 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: was two, so but it was very embarrassing. So here 166 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: was this little independent spirit who wouldn't be confined in 167 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: any way, shape or form now in my clothes. And 168 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: then when she was a little bit older, she wanted 169 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: to play soccer, and my husband told her, you can't, 170 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: and she asked why. He said, well, if you play soccer, 171 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: you're playing in a skirt, right, because when I WoT 172 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: to wear pants, if you play soccer in a skirt, 173 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: a man could be walking by the field and he 174 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: may see your knees and get turned on and have 175 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: inappropriate thoughts, and that will be your fault. So you 176 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: can't play soccer. And I'll never forget Miriam. She was 177 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: five or six years old. I mean, let's not talk 178 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: about the kind of man that gets turned on by 179 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: women's knees, but a five year old's needs. But okay, 180 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: let's leave that alone for a minute. She looks at 181 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: my husband and she says, okay, Well, if he's responsible, 182 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: if I'm responsible for his sins, is he responsible for mine? 183 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: And that was all it took. Hearing that from the 184 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: mouth of a five year old. They had convinced me 185 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: that I was somehow flawed for not being okay with it. 186 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: Hearing the just sound reasonable logic coming out of the 187 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: mouth of literally a five or six year old, that 188 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: changed it for me because I realized it wasn't me, 189 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: it was these laws, these rules. 190 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 2: So after Miriam, did you make a plan at that 191 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 2: moment to say I have to leave because you did 192 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: have another child afterwards? 193 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: That was when the beginning and the first eight It 194 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: took me eight years between when I decided I wanted 195 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: to leave and when I walked out the door and 196 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: I became a voracious reader. I was completely ignorant. I 197 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: didn't know anything, so books saved my life. Whenever people said, like, 198 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: what if you could pinpoint one thing, I always say books. 199 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: I just read, read and read Euripides, Voltaire, Descartes, Spinoza, Pantheism, 200 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: you name it, I've read it. And that's how I 201 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: educated myself. That's how I changed my vocabulary and learned grammar, 202 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: all through reading books. That's all I had. And then 203 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: I found a way to make some money so I 204 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: could have because I wasn't leading without my children. And 205 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: then eight years later I got up and I packed 206 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: my blankety blank, and I walked out the door. Not 207 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: a single human being knew what I was doing, nobody, 208 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: because I was so afraid that if someone knew, they 209 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: would tell on me. And again not out of a 210 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: sense of cruelty, out of a sense of responsibility, because 211 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: in their mind, I'm taking my children away from the 212 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: source of holiness and beauty, right, so in their mind 213 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: it would be their duty to tell on me. So 214 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: I just didn't tell anybody, not a single soulnu, not 215 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: one of my friends, nobody, not my siblings, nobody knew. 216 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: So where did you go? Like, what did you tell 217 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: your children when you were walking out? And where did 218 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 2: you literally go? So I didn't tell my children anything. 219 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: My daughter was already married and in Israel, my son 220 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: was in yeshiva in Israel, so it's just Miriam and 221 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: our own and Miriam I was like, let's go on vacation, 222 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: and then it was really just you're going to make 223 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: a fun of me here. So I'd never slept in 224 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: a hotel by myself ever, right forty two years old, 225 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: I'd never rented a hotel room and slept her alone 226 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: like that just had never happened. I get in a can. 227 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: I have no idea where we're going. It's the day 228 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: that we left was not planned. The day we left 229 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: was because again Miriam, the night before she got accused 230 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: of cheating because her essay was too good to have 231 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: been written by a woman. She must have gotten help 232 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: from somebody, and she was devastated. She's like, I worked hard, 233 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: it's so good that I'm all like what. And that 234 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: was it. That was the last straw. I literally packed 235 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: our stuff and we walked out the door. So it 236 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: was not planned, completely not planned. I got in the 237 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: car and I look, Okay, where are we going. I 238 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: have no idea where we're going. And we drive into 239 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: the city and I was more comfortable in like the 240 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: forty seventh Street area, because that's where the diamonds are, 241 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: That's where a lot of Jews are. That's like the 242 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: place I would go when I would come into Manhattan. 243 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: And so I'm driving by forty second and I see 244 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: this big w and I'm like, oh my gosh. That 245 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: hotel is called Welcome. This is amazing. And so I 246 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: drove into the Double Hotel because it felt like New 247 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: York was welcoming me. And so that's where I stayed. 248 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: The first night was at the w Hotel. 249 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break for some ads. 250 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 2: Now back to the show. Barely knowing how to navigate 251 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 2: the quote real world, Julius stayed in hotels for the 252 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: next four years. 253 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to rent a place I was 254 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: too in Mayar's task. I was so new to world, 255 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: like to the world. I didn't know, and I didn't 256 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: understand how anything worked. I really didn't. I had no 257 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: idea how anything worked. Obviously, it is not economical to 258 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: stay at a hotel for four years, no to self. 259 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: But at the time, it just seemed like a really 260 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: simple solution, you know, And we were living out of 261 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: our suitcases anyway for so many years, because you know, 262 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: we basically went to Mars eleven years ago, that's what 263 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: it felt like. It felt like journeying to Mars. So 264 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: you started the shoe company pretty within weeks. Yeah, how 265 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: did you know how to start a business? Like know 266 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: how to start a shoe company? And where did you 267 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: know that you had such a flair for fashion? Well, 268 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: the religious communities are not known for their fashion. That's 269 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: a mild understated. I remember I once wore this yellow 270 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: suit to school completely covered. I mean we're talking about 271 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: the collar bone, below the elbows, below the knees. They 272 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: get called into the rabbi's office. He's like, Julia, Julia, 273 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: what is this? What is this? And I said, what's 274 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: wrong with it? I'm covered head to toe and He's like, yes, 275 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: but it's yellow, and I'm like, okay, wearing the toe 276 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: doesn't say you can't wear colors. And he says to me, 277 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: it's too noticeable. You're attracting attention. And I responded and 278 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: I said, look, the day that God stopped making colors 279 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: in flowers and in the rest of the world, you 280 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: can tell me black and gray until then, you're not 281 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: going to convince me that God hates color. So I'm 282 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: going to continue wearing color. But I got in trouble 283 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: all the time. So in terms of fashion sense, I 284 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: was drawing clothing and shoes since I was like five, 285 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: just hiding them. I just didn't have a knee training, 286 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: and I would hide them in my underwear drawer where 287 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: I knew my husband would never look. But I'd been 288 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: drawing really since I was five years old, Like, I 289 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: taught myself how to sew and how to make patterns, 290 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: and I started making my own clothing there. So basically 291 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: what I did is I followed the letter of the law, 292 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: but not the spirit of the law, because yes, I 293 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: was covered head to toe, but by the time I 294 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: was out, I was covered head to toe, but the 295 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: clothes I was wearing were so tight, like you could 296 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: see every you know, curve over there. So I figured 297 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: out a way how to be fashionable, which I got 298 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: in trouble for all the time in my world. 299 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 2: So did you think about trying to get a job 300 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: in fashion after you are now living in Times Square 301 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: in the w hotel, like or was it always like, No, 302 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: I have a vision I'm going to create, Like, how 303 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: did you take that first step to create a shoe company? 304 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: Honestly, I never thought about working for someone because I 305 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: did everything by myself. You know, I left the community 306 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: without help. I'd never heard of Footsteps, which is, you know, 307 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: a program that helps women leave my community. I'd never 308 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: even heard of it. It didn't occur to me to 309 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: ask for help. And so to me, it was kind 310 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: of the same thing if I was going to start 311 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: a shoe company, if I was going to create shoes, 312 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: because I had this idea to make comfortable shoes that 313 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to choose between fashion and comfort, and 314 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: I knew that if I wanted it done, I had 315 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: to do it myself. 316 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: In twenty thirteen, she launched her footwear brand, and in 317 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: true Julia fashion, she started her shoe line as a 318 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 2: way to redefine the idea that beauty and comfort can't 319 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: go together. Her signature platform pumps that she wears to 320 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: any and every occasion put her on the map, opening 321 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 2: her career to even bigger opportunities. So one of the 322 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: things that I like to think about when talking with 323 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 2: women who have gone through something and then are making 324 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: a pivot, is how all of the skills of the 325 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: thing we did before actually set us up a. 326 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: One hundred percent one hundred percent I mean, think about it. 327 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: I was teaching two jobs, multiple classes, doing all the 328 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: prep work while cooking and cleaning and taking care of babies. 329 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: I learned a had a multitask be how to utilize 330 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: every minute of my day optimally and see how to 331 00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: keep my cool under extreme circumstances. And there's no question 332 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: that those skills have kept me through. 333 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: Those are all through like the executive management kind of category. 334 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: Do you think there were actually like particular skills that 335 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 2: ended up transferring into either creating shoes or then I 336 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: mean from there you went to lapurla and then to 337 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 2: elite world management. 338 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: I think it's not actually a skill, it's I see 339 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: the spaces in between people see what is I see? 340 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: What isn't? I am fascinated by the unknown. Because every 341 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: industry I go into that, what do I do? I 342 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: literally turn it upside down. Right when I went into 343 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: the shoes, I made the first comfortable high heeled shoe. 344 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: It was beautiful, it was elegant. It was so comfortable 345 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: that at a certain point, I think we were going 346 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: to be carried in the four seasons in Hong Kong 347 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: in their spat even though it's a high heel, because 348 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: it was just so ergonomically designed. Then with Lapurla, I 349 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: made clothing with bras and all this stuff built inside. 350 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 1: No one had ever done that before. 351 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: She went on to become the creative director at La Perla, 352 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: again challenging the status quo by creating a new line 353 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: that made lingerie more wearable. 354 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: An article recently came out that the only period that 355 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: they actually increased in sales was when I was creative director. So, 356 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: like everywhere I go, I turned things around. You know, 357 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: the management company EWG, it was a modeling agency, was 358 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: an excellent modeling agency, and I turned it into a 359 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: media congomerate by recognizing that the talent, they're the new media. 360 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: They have the audience and treating them as such and 361 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: giving them autonomy in their careers and longevity in their 362 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: careers by making them into brand names on social media. 363 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: So I think you know the one. I would say 364 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: there are two uniting threads in everything I do. One 365 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: is it has to help women somehow. I don't do 366 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: things that aren't female related. I just don't. It's not 367 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: where my head goes. Also, I don't know men. You know, 368 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: like you guys grew up together. I started talking to 369 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: guys at forty two. I'm super clueless when it comes 370 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: to men. Women. They're my people. I understand them, I 371 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: love them. I want to make their world better, and 372 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: that's where it comes from. It didn't come from anger 373 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: my community. To the contrary, it comes from this massive love. 374 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: I want the women in my world. I want women 375 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: in every world, in Iran and Saudi Arabia. I want 376 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: every woman to have self determination and autonomy. The point 377 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: is everything I do is related and directed and geared 378 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: towards women. My followers are ninety two percent female. I 379 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: think the men who watched my show were either husbands 380 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: of boyfriends of sons of and their mom or their 381 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: girlfriend or their sister. Said, you have to watch the show. 382 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: So that's one continuous thread through everything I do, and 383 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: then the other one is finding something that's missing, thinking 384 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: how could I do something better, and then organizing it, 385 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: streamlining it, and creating a system where it moves automatically. 386 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: That's been my sweet spot. And I think the biggest 387 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: part of that is I don't think I know everything. 388 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: I'm an eternal student. I'm always learning. I love the unknown. 389 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with what isn't and I think most people 390 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: are afraid of the unknown. 391 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 2: I'm so happy that you're putting language to this because 392 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 2: I feel like the big pivot points in my life 393 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: have come from realizing that things that I didn't think 394 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: were skilled were just sort of like personality traits I 395 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: think were then realizing that they were skills. Like I 396 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 2: was not a good student, I did not excel in school, 397 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: and then I worked on a political campaign and I 398 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 2: killed it. 399 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: That's success right there. 400 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 2: I've never been able to put language to it, So 401 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 2: I'm so happy that you just did. 402 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for doing that. 403 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: I'm like, my brain is running at all these different yes. 404 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: But that's why you're so incredibly successful. You focused on 405 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: what wasn't right, the things, the spaces in between that 406 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: people just don't want to go to. They're just afraid. 407 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: People are afraid of the unknown. They like the none 408 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: is comfortable, right. I hate being comfortable. I'm comfortable. I'm 409 00:21:59,240 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: doing something wrong. 410 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break for some ads. 411 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: Now back to the show. Julia has been able to 412 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 2: find enormous success in her career after pivoting from her 413 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 2: life in the ultra Orthodox community, but with fame comes 414 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 2: public scrutiny, which happened after she announced her divorce in 415 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. 416 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 3: Listen, we're starting off our show today with a guest 417 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 3: who has been the focus of tabloid headlines for the 418 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: past ten months. I cannot imagine waking up every single 419 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 3: day and seeing my name in a headline with people 420 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 3: speculating about my life. Millions of people first came to 421 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 3: know Julia Hart, the woman who was a part of 422 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 3: those headlines. 423 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: Just last year, during Julia Heart was fired from a 424 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: position ant a strange husband, Sylvia Scoglia. 425 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: Hart's company in the midst of the couple split employees. 426 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 2: Since you left, the community became public. We're on a 427 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: TV show, so quickly. You know, there's been a variety 428 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: of different scandals that have come up, and it's all public. 429 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 2: You went from totally unknown, thinking that you had no 430 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: rights basically and no individual personality, to being out debating 431 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 2: pieces about your public professional private light out in public. 432 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: How do you deal with that? 433 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: Oh? So hard, it's so odd. Anyway, who told you 434 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: it's not hard? They're lying? It's very difficult. Obviously, there's 435 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: I don't think I you know, before the whistleblower came 436 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: out and the truth started coming out, I got accused 437 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: of the craziest things. I got accused of being a liar, 438 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: a thief, a con artist, to seduct I think the 439 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: only accusation that wasn't thrown at me was whitch. But 440 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: you know, it was very difficult because it was a 441 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: man again coming and taking everything I had built and 442 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,479 Speaker 1: worked and created, and how easy it was, and how 443 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: many people believed it even though there was no proof 444 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: for it because it didn't actually happen. There was an 445 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: article that said I stole a car, and now, of 446 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: course they have the proof that I paid for it 447 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: and we have the documentation. But there were months before 448 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: that all came out, months of time where people genuinely 449 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: thought I was a thief and a liar, and it 450 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: almost killed me. I'm gonna be honest. There were days 451 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: I didn't walk out in my bedroom. They were very 452 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: difficult days. I dropped probably twelve pounds, and I can't 453 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 1: really afford to drop twelve pounds. I stopped eating, I 454 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: stopped sleeping. It was very, very rough, very rough, and 455 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: three things got me through. This is so it's like 456 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: the serendipity here was just through the roof. So the 457 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: day that I went that, I found out that I 458 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: lost in Delaware, which it just again makes absolute no sense. 459 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: I have so many documents that say fifty to fifty, 460 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: but we're almost there. We're a getting one step at 461 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: a time. I'm not given up until I get truth 462 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: in justice. But when that came down, I was just destroyed. 463 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: I was so devastated, and I'm sitting on the floor 464 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: or in my office hysterically crying, and I get a 465 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: phone call from this woman Ellen Gavin, who is basically 466 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: like my political guru person. I became involved in politics 467 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: once they repealed Roe versus Wade for the first time 468 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: in my life, and I didn't know what I was 469 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: doing I'd never really been politically active. So she calls 470 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: me she has no idea what happened because it hasn't 471 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: hit the press yet. This is five minutes after I 472 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: find out myself, and she says to me, Julia, do 473 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: you want tickets to an off Broadway show about the 474 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: Suffragettes called Seffs? And I'm thinking to myself, do you 475 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: have any idea what just happen in my life? I 476 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: Am like completely broken. I am sitting here on my 477 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: floor crying my eyes out at the injustice of what's 478 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: been done to me. I'm going to a Broadway show. 479 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is ridiculous. And then I said to myself, no, 480 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: if you sit here on the floor and you cry, 481 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: he wins. Every man that has ever pushed a woman 482 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: down and used his power to destroy they went not 483 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: going to do it. So I said, you know what, 484 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to this fucking excuse my language, this off 485 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: Fraudway show. I get to this show, and what is 486 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: it about women demanding rights and what happens to them. 487 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: They're not just called bad people in the press or 488 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: liars or thieves. They're actually stuck into jail. They are 489 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: force fed, they are put in a dungeon for what 490 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: for demanding freedom? And while they're in that dungeon, they're 491 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: still fighting. And I watched that and I walked out 492 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: of that show and I said, I am not going 493 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: to cry. I am not going to be destroyed. I'm 494 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: not hiding in my room anymore. I am going to 495 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: fight back. And it totally shifted my mental space, I 496 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: would say. And then once I made that decision, the 497 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: next step was, Okay, how do I deal with all 498 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: the pain and crazy that's going on? Because it is 499 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: a lot to get constantly attacked knowing that you're innocent. 500 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: It's an awful feeling. It sucks. And I started meditating. 501 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: I took a lot of courses, and I learned how 502 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: to calm myself down and to go to a happier place. 503 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: And I go into a dark room, I close the door, 504 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: I meditate and it just calms everything and then I 505 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: can face whatever it is and move forward. So that's 506 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: number two. And then number three is my children. My kids. 507 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: I should have probably put them first. I mean with 508 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: me through thick and thin, stood by my side, moved 509 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: into the apartment to be with me and hold me 510 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: and support me. And have done everything everything to shower 511 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: we with love to kind of countact all the garbage 512 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: I got two years ago. 513 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 2: But when you were thinking about writing your book, you 514 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: said that you wanted to write it for women to 515 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: be a model, and that's why you wanted to talk 516 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 2: through the really hard parts. And honestly, that's a big 517 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 2: part of why I do this podcast. And sometimes I 518 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 2: feel about the fact that I'm asking women to really 519 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: talk through the hardest part. But if it wasn't the 520 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 2: hardest part, it wouldn't have prompted a change. 521 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: There you go. I think in a way, the nights 522 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: before the book came out were more frightening than when 523 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: the show came out. Why because I don't know if 524 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: you've read the book, but the book is extremely Someone 525 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: called it radical honesty. I mean, I share all the 526 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: bumps and the bruises and the mistakes and everything, because 527 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: I thought, if the purpose of writing this book is 528 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: to help other women realize their potential, realize that it's 529 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: never too late to change their lives, if I leave 530 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: out all the bumpy parts, if I make it look easy, 531 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: then the first time they have an impediment, they'll stop 532 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: and say, oh, I'm not meant to do this. Julia 533 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: Fats was so easy she went from this to this success. No, 534 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: that's not how it worked. It was a very very 535 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: difficult road. I've worked twenty hour days for the last 536 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: eleven years. You know, I'm a warrior. I fight for 537 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: what I believe in, and it's been a very difficult road. 538 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: And I thought it was important to share that the 539 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: road being difficult, that's okay, making mistakes, that's part of it. 540 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: Like we cannot be afraid of messing up. We can't, 541 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: you know. And I think a lot of it has 542 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: to do with the fact which this is. My daughter 543 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: came up with this, and I thought it was genius. 544 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: Guys from the time they're young learn how to deal 545 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: with rejection. Why because they're the ones asking girls out. Right, 546 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: even in our culture, a feminist modern culture, predominantly, it's 547 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: still guys asking girls out. Now, you would say that's 548 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: a bad thing. Poor guy, it's all on him. No, 549 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: But what it teaches him is that it's not so 550 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: bad rejection. Five women rejects him, but one woman says yes. 551 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: He just keeps going through it. So by the time 552 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: a young man becomes an adult, he has learned how 553 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: to to deal with rejection. He has learned to ignore 554 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: it and just move forward. Women, however, we have been 555 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: taught to be polite and sweet and kind and this 556 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: and that, and we're always being judged right, you're too loud, 557 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: you're too flashy, you're to this, you're to that, you're 558 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: not enough, you're If you think about all the things 559 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: that women get accused of on a daily basis, all 560 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: the voices that they're hearing are negative voices telling them 561 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: what they can't be doing, and once they hit a roadblock, 562 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: very often they think all these people were right, I 563 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't have started this right. We don't deal with rejection 564 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: as well because we're not as trained in it. I 565 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: want people to know losing sometimes is okay because then 566 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: you win more. You just got to keep going through it. 567 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: You can't ever give up. 568 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 2: Looking back at all of these different situations, is there 569 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 2: something that really stands out for you that at the 570 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: time you thought was such a low point that you 571 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 2: thought you really wouldn't get out of it, And now 572 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 2: in retrospect, you look back and you feel like it's 573 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: really launched you to where you are now. 574 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: Well, I'd love to say that after my divorce is over, 575 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: that'll be great. You know, I would say the two 576 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: most difficult moments in my life, or the day that 577 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: I left my community and then you know, the time 578 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: after I filed for divorce. Those those have been the 579 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: most traumatic experiences of my life. One was literally moving 580 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: to Mars being a complete unknown, and the other was 581 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: watching all my work and building a billion dollar business 582 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: being snatched for me. That was painful. So will I 583 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: say I've learned from it? Not until it's over and 584 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: I've won and justice has been served. I want justice, 585 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: I really do. I want justice. It's funny. I have 586 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: no anger or anything like that. I just I want 587 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: truth to matter. I just want justice. You know. I 588 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: think I'd rather wait until it's over. Then I can say, yes, 589 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: I learned so much from it. But I'm not ready 590 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: to say that yet. But of course I learned a 591 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: lot from leaving my community, because that's why I started 592 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: my shoe brand. Because I figured if I could time travel, 593 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: I could do anything. And that moment of understanding that 594 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 1: I'm much stronger than I thought I was, and I 595 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: have capabilities I'm yet unaware of. I figured, if I 596 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: could survive time travel. Of course I could build a 597 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: shoe company. Of course I could create laingry like. It 598 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: just didn't occur to me that I couldn't. So I did. 599 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us, Julia. 600 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: I had such an incredible time. You're an extraordinary woman. 601 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: You are really such a wow just wow. Really, I'm 602 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: impressed and I'm appreciative that we got to spend time together. 603 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: I hope more and more people continue to listen to 604 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: your podcast, because I think you're doing something truly valuable 605 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: for humanity. 606 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 2: Julia continues to be her fabulous self, living in New 607 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: York City, now uses her platform to uplift and support women, 608 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 2: involving herself in politics and empower other women and their ventures. 609 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 2: She also just started her own shapewear line called Plus Body, 610 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: and she is also the author of a best selling book. 611 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 2: You can follow Julia on Instagram at Julia Heart to 612 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 2: stay up to date on all her latest pivots. Thanks 613 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 2: for listening to this episode of She Pivots. If you 614 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 2: made it this far, you're a true pivoter, So thanks 615 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 2: for being part of this community. I hope you enjoyed 616 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 2: this episode, and if you did, leave us a rating 617 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: Please be nice tell your friends about us. To learn 618 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 2: more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at she 619 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 2: pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our newsletter where 620 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 2: you can get exclusive behind the scenes content, or on 621 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 2: our website she pivots the Podcast Talk to You Next Week. 622 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 2: Special thanks to the she pivots team, Executive producer Emily 623 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 2: eda Velosik, Associate producer and social media connoisseur Hannah Cousins, 624 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 2: Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics coordinator Madeline Snovac, 625 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 2: and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock I endorse Tea 626 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 2: Pivots